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Author Topic: After The Game: Bombers & TiCats 9/27/2019  (Read 3436 times)
blue newt
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« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2019, 04:44:36 AM »

Actually after the first series by both the whole team played bad. IMO this team is getting worse not better. And I'm talking about both the offence and defence.

Yup.  People seem to be pointing fingers at one side (or player) or the other.  No one played well.  Maybe Lawler.  He seemed into it.  But I wasn't impressed with a single other player out there tonight.  Penalties on Specials, inability to cover Banks or Addison on Defense, and Offense's complete inability to move the ball down the field except for the first drive and in garbage time when the Ti-Cats D didn't seem to be trying as hard.  If even one group had shown up tonight, the result might have been less lop-sided.

I usually try and be optimistic.  And with that angle, I believe that the team will play better going forward.  I'm not ready to throw in the towel on the season yet.  There are too many good players on this team for them to continue to play as if they are trying to lose.  My dreams of first in the West are slipping away, but trying not to lose hope.  Lots of season left.
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catfan
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« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2019, 11:07:54 AM »


 Catfan here:  I'm still looking forward to seeing you guys in the Grey Cup. Pull it together and beat those pesky Stamps.



 P.S. We did give you guys an old fashion butt kicking didn't we. Get over it.



chow Catfan
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lenny
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« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2019, 11:27:13 AM »

Come now. When the Bombers lost the first time to the Ti-Cats remember what happened? They lose Masoli early who had gone 6/7 , 1 TD and was looking to carve up our pathetic secondary and make our DC look like an amateur D play caller. Backup Evans comes in who up to that point barely played CFL football and keeps the team in it just by playing possession football. And what did Matt do? Threw for  3 INTS and 1 TD. 15 pathetic points who then takes that great 5-1 record (against losing opposition) straight to Toronto and manages 165 yds passing while MBT threw for 343 yds and 3 TDs with NO INTS. This is the same MBT who the week before was completely shut out by the Eskimos throwing at 33% and 1 INT and was pulled.

Lesson: Alarm signals yet again with this team. The D scheming by Hall, poor secondary, poor choice of talent at key positions and the last 4 1/2 years with this DC seems to have made our coaches and management more pathetically blind to obvious failures.

Oh well.
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lenny
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« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2019, 11:43:11 AM »

I've been sitting here playing Candy Crush for the last hour and trying to come up with an answer to this question...

how can we execute so well in that first series on offense, have a very dominate 70+ yard drive for a TD and then look so lost for the rest of the game?  I get that the first series is generally a scripted series and one they work on during the week, but... if that's the case, then just script some more series, lol...

if anyone has a explanation I'd love to hear it because I just don't get it...

You have to go off script when your D is being carved up and now you're not playing possession football but scrambling to get aggressive and are playing come from behind football. Remember the first time we played the Ti-Cats though? Matt had three INTS and despite the fact Masoli who up to that point of his early exit had gone 6/7 1 TD and was carving up Hall's D, they put in Evans who barely played CFL football - all he needed to do was play possesion football and the offfence couldn't do a bloody thing except get INTS. The scripts didn't work in that game either.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2019, 11:53:30 AM »

yeah but every running play doesn't have to be Harris up the gut... or every Whitehead play a jet sweep, of the 'jet sweep' screen... and the screen pass to Harris on 2nd and long... etc...

like I said, I loved the running play for Demski with the fake to Harris and Harris pulling the defense to the outside while Demski takes it up the gut...

plus, tonight it seemed like Streveler had orders to not move out of the pocket and run but stand in there and throw it... which isn't all bad, but, he needs to be able to run when he feels like it's the better option... 

it just gets frustrating when if becomes so 'safe' and very predictable... and isn't working yet we keep on doing it... Lapo is supposed to be the offensive guru... I honestly think I could do a better job most of the time...

people harp about Streveler needing to be better at reading the defense, but, when the play called is a dump pass to Harris and he's open so you throw it to him... you can hardly criticize Streveler's ability when the play called is 'there' and he does as he supposed to do...
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tlf
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« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2019, 12:28:05 PM »

I think Adams share a bit of blame on that INT... it looked to me like he slowed up, twice actually, and then tried to make up the ground but couldn't... not knocking Adams, I just think he really wasn't expecting the ball to be thrown to him...

but Lawler had catches of 19, 21, and 24 yards, plus the 24 yard catch that was called back for holding...

and then there was the 24 yard pass to Adams that was defended but one that maybe Darvin could have come up with... same with Whitehead, a 33 yard pass to him where he had both hands on the ball and had it knocked away...

but at the end of the day it is what it is... Streveler may not be the most accurate but receivers to hold up there end when possible as well... kind of the same way it was for Nichols, these guys are going to throw and guys will need to adjust and make the play... Evans is not the most accurate passer either but you saw his receivers make the adjustment and come up with it...

I?ll have to rewatch  it. I was at the game freezing. Even in layers. 
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2019, 12:44:50 PM »

I?ll have to rewatch  it. I was at the game freezing. Even in layers. 

seriously hot here where I'm at... I was caught off guard at first when I saw Sarah all bundled up on the side lines... and it's not like we're that far apart, but it was 35 degrees here yesterday...
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GOLDMEMBER
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R.I.P. BLUE BONGER


« Reply #52 on: September 28, 2019, 01:21:56 PM »

seriously hot here where I'm at... I was caught off guard at first when I saw Sarah all bundled up on the side lines... and it's not like we're that far apart, but it was 35 degrees here yesterday...
seriously 66! Roll Eyes
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buckzumhoff
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« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2019, 01:37:22 PM »

Hamilton knew what Winnipeg was going to do , And when they had the ball they did what Montreal did, drop get rid of the ball and throw to the open receiver in the middle , always at least one receiver open. Winnipeg should just run the ball and make it their offense. Because I cant see them throwing the ball . Run the ball every play put another end on the side . Feel bad for the lineup of receivers, you don't see the ball with this offense.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 01:40:24 PM by buckzumhoff » Logged
TBURGESS
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« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2019, 01:54:03 PM »

yeah but every running play doesn't have to be Harris up the gut... or every Whitehead play a jet sweep, of the 'jet sweep' screen... and the screen pass to Harris on 2nd and long... etc...

like I said, I loved the running play for Demski with the fake to Harris and Harris pulling the defense to the outside while Demski takes it up the gut...

plus, tonight it seemed like Streveler had orders to not move out of the pocket and run but stand in there and throw it... which isn't all bad, but, he needs to be able to run when he feels like it's the better option... 

it just gets frustrating when if becomes so 'safe' and very predictable... and isn't working yet we keep on doing it... Lapo is supposed to be the offensive guru... I honestly think I could do a better job most of the time...

people harp about Streveler needing to be better at reading the defense, but, when the play called is a dump pass to Harris and he's open so you throw it to him... you can hardly criticize Streveler's ability when the play called is 'there' and he does as he supposed to do...
That is bad. Streveler isn't Nichols and we shouldn't try to make him play like Nichols. Streveler's big advantage is his running ability. Use that like we did in the first half against Montreal. Let him get comfortable. Hopefully get a lead. Then throw the ball where the LB's were cuz they will have to move forward to take care of the run.
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Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.
tlf
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« Reply #55 on: September 28, 2019, 01:55:42 PM »

seriously hot here where I'm at... I was caught off guard at first when I saw Sarah all bundled up on the side lines... and it's not like we're that far apart, but it was 35 degrees here yesterday...

Thermal layer, thin jacket and super thick hoodie.  I know for next game better footwear.  That?s the key. The cardboard under the feet and warm feet.  
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2019, 06:04:35 PM »

seriously 66! Roll Eyes

sure enough! still wearing the short pants and flip flops... actually worked on my AC unit yesterday as it was overheating and shutting itself down... not anymore though, lol...

it rained last night and it's a bit over cast today but it's still 27 degrees today right now... supposed to be 31 tomorrow and then 32 until a cool down Thursday where it will finally drop to 19/20 degrees...

I don't even think about digging out a jacket until at least October, may start wearing some long sleeve Tees before then but yeah...

lol... I just looked at the date and time on my computer and see that it's only 2 days until October... I thought I had at least couple of weeks, if not 3 to go...  Grin
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Knocker42
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« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2019, 06:23:15 PM »

Even though I have been a STH for fifty years, I did not grow up in Canada and never played the game.  I guess I'm a slow learner but I'm confused about something and would appreciate it if someone would set me straight.
My belief has always been that, on most plays, each receiver would run a designated route.  The quarterback would be aware of all routes being run on the play.  He would have a mental list of the plays, probably arranged in the order the team thinks are most likely to be productive on that play.  The QB surveys the scene in front of him, probably in the order on that list, and decides where the best chance of a gain lies.  Based on that, he throws the pass he chooses as the best option.
Is this accurate in most instances?  (I realize there will be times when a quick pass will be made to a predetermined receiver but these are less frequent)

If the above is accurate, and I'm open to correction on that, why do people say the scheme is at fault when no long passes are attempted?  (or not enough of them) Surely, on most plays one or more receiver will be going deep and it is up to the quarterback to decide where the ball goes within the framework of the play.
Please show me where I'm wrong here.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2019, 04:54:50 AM »

Even though I have been a STH for fifty years, I did not grow up in Canada and never played the game.  I guess I'm a slow learner but I'm confused about something and would appreciate it if someone would set me straight.
My belief has always been that, on most plays, each receiver would run a designated route.  The quarterback would be aware of all routes being run on the play.  He would have a mental list of the plays, probably arranged in the order the team thinks are most likely to be productive on that play.  The QB surveys the scene in front of him, probably in the order on that list, and decides where the best chance of a gain lies.  Based on that, he throws the pass he chooses as the best option.
Is this accurate in most instances?  (I realize there will be times when a quick pass will be made to a predetermined receiver but these are less frequent)

If the above is accurate, and I'm open to correction on that, why do people say the scheme is at fault when no long passes are attempted?  (or not enough of them) Surely, on most plays one or more receiver will be going deep and it is up to the quarterback to decide where the ball goes within the framework of the play.
Please show me where I'm wrong here.

yes and no... and a lot of it depends on who is responsible for actual play calling... plus there is always a chance of an audible at the line of scrimmage... but I will give you the  standard of how it is done the majority of the time...

a coach, either the head coach or the OC, will send a play in to the QB... the play call will tell everyone their assignments; blocking, route running, primary target, and the expected progression of target reads when the primary target is 'covered', and may include a 'hot route'... a 'hot route' is a designated receiver that becomes the primary target when the QB needs to get rid of the ball fast due to the rush...  so, in the most simple scenario of a passing play, once the ball is snapped the QB first looks to the primary target and if open, throws the ball... if covered he begins his predetermined progression of targets specific to the play called... that's not to say that due to a break down in coverage that a QB spots an open receiver and makes a throw regardless of the predetermined target progression...

there can also be, and there usually is, a predetermined variation to each passing play based upon how the defense lines up... this is something that both the receivers and the QB must know and each has to make a read at the line of scrimmage of the defense and determine their specific assignment... in some cases nothing changes but in others a receiver's route or target progression can change based upon how the defense lines up... so the responsibility to make the right defensive 'read' is on both the QB and the receiver...

another variable is that not all passing plays will include every receiver in the designed target progression as receivers can be used to move the defense, create space or preferred match ups for the primary receiver, or have blocking responsibilities either in the back field or down field after the completion...

however, it is very structured and seldom is it left up to the QB to just throw to who ever they want in any given play except for what is referred to as the 'check down'...  the check down is when the QB determines that nobody in the progression is open and throws the ball to the check down receiver... the check down receiver is usually a short yardage route at or near the line of scrimmage and can be either a running back or a receiver...

but long story short, your OC, or play caller, is expecting the QB to throw to the first person they find open in accordance with the target progression specific to the play called...   
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #59 on: September 29, 2019, 10:34:54 AM »

how can we execute so well in that first series on offense, have a very dominate 70+ yard drive for a TD and then look so lost for the rest of the game?  I get that the first series is generally a scripted series and one they work on during the week, but... if that's the case, then just script some more series, lol...

if anyone has a explanation I'd love to hear it because I just don't get it...

HAM didn't bring any heat our first drive, that's why.  Immediately to start the 2nd drive they brought heat the whole rest of the game.  And our OL was hot crap most of the night.

Now that Neuf and Speller are both healed, why are we not Neuf-Couture-Speller?!?!?!

No one played well.  Maybe Lawler.  He seemed into it.

Lawler was great!  He probably had the most non-YAC yards in a game out of any of our receivers in any game this year.

I would also say Jeffcoat was pretty good coming back.  He did that FF we didn't recover, and he was soooo close to getting more FF's and sacks many times.  Unlike Jefferson, he doesn't go to sleep and back off before the whistle.

My belief has always been that, on most plays, each receiver would run a designated route[...]

If the above is accurate, and I'm open to correction on that, why do people say the scheme is at fault when no long passes are attempted?

I'd say you're pretty much right in your description.  The reason it's playcalling when no long passes are attempted is because it's pretty clear Lapo/MOS have told Strev not to throw deep (except on special occasions like the doomed one to Adams).  Any deep ("go") routes for us now are just decoys.  HAM knows it, so they have their DBs cheat up to cover the run and short game.

Even if you want to throw deep, most often deeper routes are used to open up the intermediate routes, and the deep routes aren't even options for the QB (again, decoys).  This is actually smart ball, but it only works well if you throw deep sometimes so the DBs stay honest!

I don't know how they're going to do it in 1-3 weeks, but they need to get Strev going with the deep pass immediately.  Doesn't have to be anything special: just do it like Nichols in '18, where we try 1-2 a game and hopefully connect on 1.  Even if we don't, we force the DBs to (hopefully) stay honest.

OMG, once again you have to give a nod of the hat to the CFL officials... Hamilton was only off sides by 5 yards or so in the second series of the 2nd half and not a flag one... of course it was on a 2nd down and 9 where they convert as well with a 21 yard completion to the guy that was off sides...  end result it allows the TiCats to add to the lead with a field goal a few plays latter...

If you mean 3Q7:06, it's not offside.  the SBs are at least 2 feet behind the LOS.  If you have a good PVR, freeze it precisely before the ball is snapped.  You'll see it's cool.  The reason it appears OS is that Banks is so bloody fast, and he times it fairly well.
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