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Author Topic: After The Game: Bombers & TiCats 9/27/2019  (Read 5748 times)
66 Chevelle
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« on: September 28, 2019, 02:04:29 AM »

well, the Bombers came into this match looking for a little redemption and some much needed self respect after last weeks debacle... and the opening drive had the Streveler and the cast of Bombers firing on all cylinders and making it look easy...  the boys begin by quickly making the TiCats go 2 an out on their opening series, then the Bombers put together a 6:57 clock consuming, 11 play, 74 yard drive that saw Streveler connect with Harris on a 8 yard toss for the TD... on the drive Streveler looked confident and managed to go a perfect 4/4 passing for 46 yards that included the TD toss...

the second TiCat series didn't really go our way, even with the nice assist from the Bomber fans/crowd, helping to set the TiCats back 5 yards on second down from the 4 with an ample supply of crowd noise resulting in the TiCats taking a delay penalty... however, the Bombers gave up a way to easy pitch and catch from Evans to Addison for the TD to knot things up at 7 all...  another Jeckle and Hyde performance by the Bomber D...

we finish out the 1st quarter looking more like the team that played in the second half against Montreal than the team that started this game... we go 2 and out, playing way under the chains on a 2nd and 15... Medlock contributes a terrible 34 yard punt and the Ticats move the ball with ease against our Rich Hall D... the Bombers give up 113 passing yards in the 1st quarter...

I'm not really sure what the deal is with Medlock's punting.... his second punt was another lack luster 38 yard effort that gave the TiCats the ball at their own 22 instead of pinning them deep in their end... luckily there was a TiCat penalty that put them back to their 12...

thus far I don't think that a single TiCat reception involved a Bomber defender anywhere near the receiver...

the the TiCats convert a 2nd and 19, and a 2nd and 10 with 2 passes to again, wide open receivers at the line of scrimmage that are converted for 1st downs... the first of which we only rush 3 and drop everyone else into coverage and we still can't stop them... oh, then followed up by what can only be called a sand lot TD pitch and catch in the end zone for a Hamilton TD... a 97 yard drive that was easy peasy for Hamilton...

halfway through the 2nd quarter and we've already given up 240 yards and 17 pts by our defense...

I know that we all love Andrew Harris but I for one have seen about 30 too many 1st down, Harris straight up the middle on 1st down plays... we're fooling absolutely nobody... after the first series we look like we are already playing the prevent offense, only problem is we're not winning... Lapo could leave at half time and I could care less...

somebody should have brought a defense to the game tonight for the Bombers... they look lost and gassed... Sayles gets schooled on a 50+ yard under thrown ball that he couldn't do nothing with, then can't make the tackle, nor could Hecht before being dragged downed to the 1... 90 yards in about a minute and change...

we manage to bookend a whole lot of terrible football by both the offense and the defense with a TD and a FG to go into the half trailing 24-10... having already given up 338 yards...

in the last 4 quarters of play the Bombers have given up over 700 yards and 45 points...

on a lighter note... it sure looks odd to see people bundled up at the game this early in the year, Sarah Orlesky looks dressed for a blizzard with that big old arctic coat and scarf, but make no mistake, still is purty as ever, lol, at least for us south of the border as it was a balmy 35 degrees here in Missouri today... even now as I type this it's still 28 degrees here... I'm sure not ready for fall yet, lol...

OMG, once again you have to give a nod of the hat to the CFL officials... Hamilton was only off sides by 5 yards or so in the second series of the 2nd half and not a flag one... of course it was on a 2nd down and 9 where they convert as well with a 21 yard completion to the guy that was off sides...  end result it allows the TiCats to add to the lead with a field goal a few plays latter...

for whatever reason, it sure looked like Lapo was bound and determined to keep Streveler in the pocket and not run tonight for the majority of the game... why, I'm not sure, but Streveler sure didn't look comfortable tonight outside of the opening series... I understand that Streveler needs to be able to stand in the pocket and throw passes, but, we also need to take what we are given at times as well...

I will say that the defense did play some what better in the second half but still way to many missed tackles and arm tackles... the O line is going to have to play better than they did tonight as well if they want Streveler to stay in the pocket as well...  like I said earlier, this seems to be a Jeckyl and Hyde team, you never know which you're going to get on any given night...

also, I think that Lapo at times tries to force the ball to Harris too much... I understand that he is 'the' guy but much like games like tonight, Harris just didn't have his mojo tonight and when that happens, we need to look to somebody else to pick up the slack...

but, outside of the first series, which I'm positive was a scripted series, we really looked lost on both sides of the ball for the majority of the game... if were not going to get better effort from the player and better play calling from the coordinators, well this will go down as another lost opportunity of a season...
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kkc60
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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2019, 02:09:40 AM »

Teams gotten too cocky.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2019, 02:13:45 AM »

people are probably going to point to Strevler's INTs tonight, the first one was bad, but, the second one... it looked like Adams stopped and started a couple of times heading down field putting himself behind the play...

also, there were a couple of drops by the receivers tonight and penalties that hurt the down field play when we did try to go there...  but on 2nd and 27 we're throwing a 6 yard pass to Harris when we're down 3 scores... Lapo needs to go, I sure hope somebody takes him, and Hall, at the end of the year...
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kkc60
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2019, 02:14:53 AM »

people are probably going to point to Strevler's INTs tonight, the first one was bad, but, the second one... it looked like Adams stopped and started a couple of times heading down field putting himself behind the play...

also, there were a couple of drops by the receivers tonight and penalties that hurt the down field play when we did try to go there...  but on 2nd and 27 we're throwing a 6 yard pass to Harris when we're down 3 scores... Lapo needs to go, I sure hope somebody takes him, and Hall, at the end of the year...
No one is picking up the weight that comes when you have a backup QB in. How is he going to develop when no one is capable of bailing him out?
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rubanski
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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2019, 02:19:21 AM »

QBs develops by playing through their mistakes. Having Kevin Glenn come in and play when strev struggles doesn't "help" develop him one bit.
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kkc60
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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2019, 02:21:07 AM »

QBs develops by playing through their mistakes. Having Kevin Glenn come in and play when strev struggles doesn't "help" develop him one bit.
What I'm saying is no receiver is bailing him out. Nor is the oline. Or defence. No one. Medlock can't even kick above .500 it seems
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3rdand1.5
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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2019, 02:27:28 AM »

Imo Strev didn't loose this game IMO he was set up to lose by the play calls
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DM83
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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2019, 02:31:09 AM »

Wow! Strevelor must have. Done a lot of developing tonite! Lol
Ritchie Hall has to go.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2019, 02:32:16 AM »

he threw for 304 yards tonight... another 30 or 40 called back for holding... first time this year I believe we went over 300 passing...

Lawler stepped up but they went to him early and then late... not sure why his number wasn't called more during the middle of the game... 144 receiving yards...
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lenny
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2019, 02:39:51 AM »

Yeah cool it on Strevler. 31/42   73.8%   304yds it's the best passing yardage game he's ever had. Baby steps. Funny we've been giving one playoff win Nichols all the leeway in the world and given the longest leash in history to a mediocre DC but Strev, oh no.
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BBRT
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If winning isn't everything,why do they keep score


« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2019, 02:40:11 AM »

he threw for 304 yards tonight... another 30 or 40 called back for holding... first time this year I believe we went over 300 passing...

Lawler stepped up but they went to him early and then late... not sure why his number wasn't called more during the middle of the game... 144 receiving yards...

I don't have a problem with Stev at all - He is learning and growing each game. What I do have a significant issue with is Richie Hall and his disaster of a defense. I have said so many times that I lost track of it - but no way the Bomber have any hope to get to the Cup this year or next (and it is getting close to next year time) is to send Hall packing. Will not happen this year but better happen next year if the Bombers have any hope for the future.
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BBRT
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If winning isn't everything,why do they keep score


« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2019, 02:42:59 AM »

Yeah cool it on Strevler. 31/42   73.8%   304yds it's the best passing yardage game he's ever had. Baby steps. Funny we've been giving one playoff win Nichols all the leeway in the world and given the longest leash in history to a mediocre DC but Strev, oh no.

I would like to make one correction to your post - you refer to Richie Hall as a mediocre DC. I take exception to that - Hall would have to improve 1000% to get up to mediocre! I would not give him an F- as that yet again would be giving him a far better grade then he deserves. I would trade him for a bag of door knobs and feel I won the deal.
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lenny
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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2019, 02:44:41 AM »

I would like to make one correction to your post - you refer to Richie Hall as a mediocre DC. I take exception to that - Hall would have to improve 1000% to get up to mediocre! I would not give him an F- as that yet again would be giving him a far better grade then he deserves. I would trade him for a bag of door knobs and feel I won the deal.

Touche! Cheesy
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2019, 02:56:22 AM »

You could see we were in trouble by how easily the Ticats scored their 1st TD. Another game where we gave up another 100 yard TD drive with multiple 2nd and long conversions.

I've seen this movie before.

On offense the Ticats took away a lot of our run game and forced us to beat them passing. In spite of the 300 yard passing game a lot came in garbage time. Part of that was our decisions to very seldom throw anything over a 10 yard strike.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2019, 03:13:30 AM »

I've been sitting here playing Candy Crush for the last hour and trying to come up with an answer to this question...

how can we execute so well in that first series on offense, have a very dominate 70+ yard drive for a TD and then look so lost for the rest of the game?  I get that the first series is generally a scripted series and one they work on during the week, but... if that's the case, then just script some more series, lol...

if anyone has a explanation I'd love to hear it because I just don't get it...
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2019, 03:20:04 AM »

I've been sitting here playing Candy Crush for the last hour and trying to come up with an answer to this question...

how can we execute so well in that first series on offense, have a very dominate 70+ yard drive for a TD and then look so lost for the rest of the game?  I get that the first series is generally a scripted series and one they work on during the week, but... if that's the case, then just script some more series, lol...

if anyone has a explanation I'd love to hear it because I just don't get it...

Nope. Scripted plays and then the other team adjusts. We go into a very predictable offense all too often.

When teams focus on taking away our run game, we generally lose.
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« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2019, 03:22:23 AM »

I'm a 38 year old Bomber fan. Been following them since I was 10 years old. I lurked on this forum for over a decade. Tonight I reached my breaking point. I have no idea what to do with this franchise anymore. We might actually be better off folding the team like Ottawa just to regroup and change the ownership structure. It is frustrating beyond words that other teams can reload and excel in 1 year. We are half a decade in with this crew and going nowhere fast. I'm beyond frustrated.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2019, 03:27:07 AM »

I'm a 38 year old Bomber fan. Been following them since I was 10 years old. I lurked on this forum for over a decade. Tonight I reached my breaking point. I have no idea what to do with this franchise anymore. We might actually be better off folding the team like Ottawa just to regroup and change the ownership structure. It is frustrating beyond words that other teams can reload and excel in 1 year. We are half a decade in with this crew and going nowhere fast. I'm beyond frustrated.

Community team. A private team is no guarantee. The Lions are a privately owned team.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2019, 03:27:17 AM »

Nope. Scripted plays and then the other team adjusts. We go into a very predictable offense all too often.

When teams focus on taking away our run game, we generally lose.

which is kind of my point... why is it that we immediately go back to that unimaginative, predicable play? Harris up the middle on 1st down and short pass under the chains on 2nd down...

Lawler was hot tonight, why not more of him in the middle of the game? and then what was probably my favorite play of the night, first down, fake the hand off to Harris to takes the D out wide and we hand off to Demski who then takes it up the middle for 9 yards... wasn't the biggest play of the night but it was something unexpected and worked...

what does Lapo do? next series it's Harris up the middle on 1st down for 1 or 2 yards...
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2019, 03:32:14 AM »

which is kind of my point... why is it that we immediately go back to that unimaginative, predicable play? Harris up the middle on 1st down and short pass under the chains on 2nd down...

Lawler was hot tonight, why not more of him in the middle of the game? and then what was probably my favorite play of the night, first down, fake the hand off to Harris to takes the D out wide and we hand off to Demski who then takes it up the middle for 9 yards... wasn't the biggest play of the night but it was something unexpected and worked...

what does Lapo do? next series it's Harris up the middle on 1st down for 1 or 2 yards...

Lawler started getting more yardage when the Ticats gave more cushion ala prevent defense. However, their version of prevent is not giving receivers a 15 yard cushion and not missing tackles.

I think I mentioned that IMO the play calling was a very safe passing attack. While that might have been fine if our running game was more successful. Once it wasn't successful we needed to try longer passes and we didn't until the game was lost.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 03:35:51 AM by Blue In BC » Logged

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In Motion
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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2019, 03:32:26 AM »

I'm a 38 year old Bomber fan. Been following them since I was 10 years old. I lurked on this forum for over a decade. Tonight I reached my breaking point. I have no idea what to do with this franchise anymore. We might actually be better off folding the team like Ottawa just to regroup and change the ownership structure. It is frustrating beyond words that other teams can reload and excel in 1 year. We are half a decade in with this crew and going nowhere fast. I'm beyond frustrated.

Welcome newbie! I feel your pain! I'm an almost 64-yr old fan, and so I at least have memories of some
fantastic teams in the 1960s and 1980s. My nephews, well into their 20's, have never witnessed the Bombers
win a Grey Cup. It's very sad. I was so happy they finally got to enjoy a championship when
the Raptors won this year.

I thought this season was our window of opportunity, but now I doubt it.
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lenny
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« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2019, 03:33:47 AM »

I'm a 38 year old Bomber fan. Been following them since I was 10 years old. I lurked on this forum for over a decade. Tonight I reached my breaking point. I have no idea what to do with this franchise anymore. We might actually be better off folding the team like Ottawa just to regroup and change the ownership structure. It is frustrating beyond words that other teams can reload and excel in 1 year. We are half a decade in with this crew and going nowhere fast. I'm beyond frustrated.

Love your handle! Tongue
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2019, 03:43:35 AM »

Welcome newbie! I feel your pain! I'm an almost 64-yr old fan, and so I at least have memories of some
fantastic teams in the 1960s and 1980s. My nephews, well into their 20's, have never witnessed the Bombers
win a Grey Cup. It's very sad. I was so happy they finally got to enjoy a championship when
the Raptors won this year.

I thought this season was our window of opportunity, but now I doubt it.

it's still not too late... as long as we win the last game we play this year all is good...  and honestly, we have good enough players to do it, when they, players and coaches, decide to show up and actually play...
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blue girl
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« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2019, 03:46:27 AM »

IMO the problem tonight was that Hamilton wasn't afraid to throw the ball downfield but we seem to be. Teams know that if they take away the running game and short passes they shut our offence down and our secondary sucks.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2019, 03:49:48 AM »

Well the front 7 sucked tonight also, because they had little to no pressure.
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swansong
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« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2019, 03:50:07 AM »

the TiCats convert a 2nd and 19

I swear before that play got off I said to myself..."watch this"...

Granted they didn't convert in the way I thought they would but I wasn't surprised in the least.

but on 2nd and 27 we're throwing a 6 yard pass to Harris when we're down 3 scores

I shook my head so hard at that I'm sure I heard something rattle.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 03:53:28 AM by swansong » Logged
66 Chevelle
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« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2019, 03:53:31 AM »

I swear before that play got off I said to myself..."watch this"...

Granted they didn't convert in the way I thought they would but I wasn't surprised in the least.

I know, right? lol... not a single conversion surprised me tonight...

I will say though, that off sides by Hamilton was SOOOOOOO bad... and I could not believe that there wasn't a flag...  I tried to screen capture it but failed miserably, lol...
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lenny
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« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2019, 03:55:23 AM »

IMO the problem tonight was that Hamilton wasn't afraid to throw the ball downfield but we seem to be. Teams know that if they take away the running game and short passes they shut our offence down and our secondary sucks.


They weren't afraid because Evans had an eternity to throw. Bombers only 1 sack and 5 for the Ti-Cats. No pressure and the secondary stunk like hot garbage. And really, even with Nichols Lapo had him game managing not a lot of deep down field chucking.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2019, 03:55:59 AM »

I swear before that play got off I said to myself..."watch this"...

Granted they didn't convert in the way I thought they would but I wasn't surprised in the least.

I shook my head so hard at that I'm sure I heard something rattle.

at times it was really laughable... it was either laugh or cry and I'm way too old to cry... lol...  and that rattle noise you heard? that was probably the marble in my head that you heard from me shaking my head so hard...
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swansong
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« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2019, 03:56:27 AM »

I'm a 38 year old Bomber fan. Been following them since I was 10 years old. I lurked on this forum for over a decade. Tonight I reached my breaking point. I have no idea what to do with this franchise anymore. We might actually be better off folding the team like Ottawa just to regroup and change the ownership structure. It is frustrating beyond words that other teams can reload and excel in 1 year. We are half a decade in with this crew and going nowhere fast. I'm beyond frustrated.

One of us. One of us. One of us.
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blue girl
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« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2019, 03:56:34 AM »

Actually after the first series by both the whole team played bad. IMO this team is getting worse not better. And I'm talking about both the offence and defence.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2019, 03:57:46 AM »

How about Woli82 and Law89, both of them made some great catches.
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swansong
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« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2019, 03:59:31 AM »

It sure seemed after the Cats immediately responded with their 1st TD the wind completely came out of the sails of the whole team.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2019, 04:02:55 AM »

Yes, and Hecht and Sayles had words after that first long pass.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2019, 04:03:47 AM »

Actually after the first series by both the whole team played bad. IMO this team is getting worse not better. And I'm talking about both the offence and defence.

agreed...

but based on what you witnessed tonight, would you be surprised to see that at the end of it all that:

1. total yards at the end, 415 to 402...
2. time of possession, 27:11 Hamilton, 32:49 Winnipeg...
3. we held Hamilton to only 70 yards in the 2nd half...
4. Streveler threw for over 300 yards, first time this year for the Bombers...
5. Lawler some how during the game had 144 yards receiving...

just watching the game I would have bet that items 1 thru 4 were lies... true story...
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swansong
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« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2019, 04:04:44 AM »

I know, right? lol... not a single conversion surprised me tonight...

I will say though, that off sides by Hamilton was SOOOOOOO bad... and I could not believe that there wasn't a flag...  I tried to screen capture it but failed miserably, lol...

I didn't notice it and I can't go back and watch it because I've already deleted it. I didn't want it soiling up the other stuff on my PVR.

that rattle noise you heard? that was probably the marble in my head that you heard from me shaking my head so hard...

I've checked around on the floor in case it fell out and is something that I need to...you know...live, or something and I haven't seen it. So either it's still in there or it was you. You might wanna have a peek around.
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tlf
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« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2019, 04:05:17 AM »

IMO the problem tonight was that Hamilton wasn't afraid to throw the ball downfield but we seem to be. Teams know that if they take away the running game and short passes they shut our offence down and our secondary sucks.


We did try and throw long once.  It was intercepted.  Strev can?t throw long accurately.  Why can ppl not see this?
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swansong
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« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2019, 04:07:30 AM »

We did try and throw long once.  It was intercepted.  Strev can?t throw long accurately.  Why can ppl not see this?

He's struggled a bit with them, yes. But the problem with that INT was that when you throw a deep jump ball it helps if your receiver, you know...jumps. Adams seemed uninterested tonight.

But I think we've gotten the message. You don't like Strev. Check.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2019, 04:13:11 AM »

Adams didn't have his best game tonight.
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M.O.A.B.
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« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2019, 04:15:07 AM »

the whole team chickened out. scared to get injured.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2019, 04:15:57 AM »

So, last week, we dominated the first half, got overconfident and got beat.

This week, it took one series to get overconfident...

Adams did not seem uninterested to me, he seemed fired up, was constantly getting held back by teammates...  but you can't catch badly thrown balls, and Streveler was having some issues with his timing and velocity...
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swansong
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« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2019, 04:18:53 AM »

So, last week, we dominated the first half, got overconfident and got beat.

This week, it took one series to get overconfident...

Adams did not seem uninterested to me, he seemed fired up, was constantly getting held back by teammates...  but you can't catch badly thrown balls, and Streveler was having some issues with his timing and velocity...

Well if you're disagreeing with me I must be right Wink

He didn't even make the slightest effort on that INT. None. Not like he isn't tall enough to at least tip it away but he didn't even try.
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swansong
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« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2019, 04:21:43 AM »

Yes, and Hecht and Sayles had words after that first long pass.

Like, "Whaa?", "Dohh", "Duhh", "Ughh" and other 4 letter words?
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2019, 04:21:52 AM »

We did try and throw long once.  It was intercepted.  Strev can?t throw long accurately.  Why can ppl not see this?

I think Adams share a bit of blame on that INT... it looked to me like he slowed up, twice actually, and then tried to make up the ground but couldn't... not knocking Adams, I just think he really wasn't expecting the ball to be thrown to him...

but Lawler had catches of 19, 21, and 24 yards, plus the 24 yard catch that was called back for holding...

and then there was the 24 yard pass to Adams that was defended but one that maybe Darvin could have come up with... same with Whitehead, a 33 yard pass to him where he had both hands on the ball and had it knocked away...

but at the end of the day it is what it is... Streveler may not be the most accurate but receivers to hold up there end when possible as well... kind of the same way it was for Nichols, these guys are going to throw and guys will need to adjust and make the play... Evans is not the most accurate passer either but you saw his receivers make the adjustment and come up with it...
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2019, 04:26:58 AM »

I wouldn't necessarily say that Adams wasn't interested, but I think he's a bit out of his element in the way he is being used right now... definitely seeing him being asked to run a lot of 'non traditional' routes for him and it just doesn't look like it comes as natural for him... Darvin is used to basically running rail and now he seems to be running a lot of short and intermediate routes that doesn't allow him to use his speed... well, except for that one that was intercepted and he didn't seem to know that he was actually involved in that play, lol...  Grin
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blue newt
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« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2019, 04:44:36 AM »

Actually after the first series by both the whole team played bad. IMO this team is getting worse not better. And I'm talking about both the offence and defence.

Yup.  People seem to be pointing fingers at one side (or player) or the other.  No one played well.  Maybe Lawler.  He seemed into it.  But I wasn't impressed with a single other player out there tonight.  Penalties on Specials, inability to cover Banks or Addison on Defense, and Offense's complete inability to move the ball down the field except for the first drive and in garbage time when the Ti-Cats D didn't seem to be trying as hard.  If even one group had shown up tonight, the result might have been less lop-sided.

I usually try and be optimistic.  And with that angle, I believe that the team will play better going forward.  I'm not ready to throw in the towel on the season yet.  There are too many good players on this team for them to continue to play as if they are trying to lose.  My dreams of first in the West are slipping away, but trying not to lose hope.  Lots of season left.
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catfan
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« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2019, 11:07:54 AM »


 Catfan here:  I'm still looking forward to seeing you guys in the Grey Cup. Pull it together and beat those pesky Stamps.



 P.S. We did give you guys an old fashion butt kicking didn't we. Get over it.



chow Catfan
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lenny
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« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2019, 11:27:13 AM »

Come now. When the Bombers lost the first time to the Ti-Cats remember what happened? They lose Masoli early who had gone 6/7 , 1 TD and was looking to carve up our pathetic secondary and make our DC look like an amateur D play caller. Backup Evans comes in who up to that point barely played CFL football and keeps the team in it just by playing possession football. And what did Matt do? Threw for  3 INTS and 1 TD. 15 pathetic points who then takes that great 5-1 record (against losing opposition) straight to Toronto and manages 165 yds passing while MBT threw for 343 yds and 3 TDs with NO INTS. This is the same MBT who the week before was completely shut out by the Eskimos throwing at 33% and 1 INT and was pulled.

Lesson: Alarm signals yet again with this team. The D scheming by Hall, poor secondary, poor choice of talent at key positions and the last 4 1/2 years with this DC seems to have made our coaches and management more pathetically blind to obvious failures.

Oh well.
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lenny
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« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2019, 11:43:11 AM »

I've been sitting here playing Candy Crush for the last hour and trying to come up with an answer to this question...

how can we execute so well in that first series on offense, have a very dominate 70+ yard drive for a TD and then look so lost for the rest of the game?  I get that the first series is generally a scripted series and one they work on during the week, but... if that's the case, then just script some more series, lol...

if anyone has a explanation I'd love to hear it because I just don't get it...

You have to go off script when your D is being carved up and now you're not playing possession football but scrambling to get aggressive and are playing come from behind football. Remember the first time we played the Ti-Cats though? Matt had three INTS and despite the fact Masoli who up to that point of his early exit had gone 6/7 1 TD and was carving up Hall's D, they put in Evans who barely played CFL football - all he needed to do was play possesion football and the offfence couldn't do a bloody thing except get INTS. The scripts didn't work in that game either.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2019, 11:53:30 AM »

yeah but every running play doesn't have to be Harris up the gut... or every Whitehead play a jet sweep, of the 'jet sweep' screen... and the screen pass to Harris on 2nd and long... etc...

like I said, I loved the running play for Demski with the fake to Harris and Harris pulling the defense to the outside while Demski takes it up the gut...

plus, tonight it seemed like Streveler had orders to not move out of the pocket and run but stand in there and throw it... which isn't all bad, but, he needs to be able to run when he feels like it's the better option... 

it just gets frustrating when if becomes so 'safe' and very predictable... and isn't working yet we keep on doing it... Lapo is supposed to be the offensive guru... I honestly think I could do a better job most of the time...

people harp about Streveler needing to be better at reading the defense, but, when the play called is a dump pass to Harris and he's open so you throw it to him... you can hardly criticize Streveler's ability when the play called is 'there' and he does as he supposed to do...
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tlf
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« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2019, 12:28:05 PM »

I think Adams share a bit of blame on that INT... it looked to me like he slowed up, twice actually, and then tried to make up the ground but couldn't... not knocking Adams, I just think he really wasn't expecting the ball to be thrown to him...

but Lawler had catches of 19, 21, and 24 yards, plus the 24 yard catch that was called back for holding...

and then there was the 24 yard pass to Adams that was defended but one that maybe Darvin could have come up with... same with Whitehead, a 33 yard pass to him where he had both hands on the ball and had it knocked away...

but at the end of the day it is what it is... Streveler may not be the most accurate but receivers to hold up there end when possible as well... kind of the same way it was for Nichols, these guys are going to throw and guys will need to adjust and make the play... Evans is not the most accurate passer either but you saw his receivers make the adjustment and come up with it...

I?ll have to rewatch  it. I was at the game freezing. Even in layers. 
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2019, 12:44:50 PM »

I?ll have to rewatch  it. I was at the game freezing. Even in layers. 

seriously hot here where I'm at... I was caught off guard at first when I saw Sarah all bundled up on the side lines... and it's not like we're that far apart, but it was 35 degrees here yesterday...
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #52 on: September 28, 2019, 01:21:56 PM »

seriously hot here where I'm at... I was caught off guard at first when I saw Sarah all bundled up on the side lines... and it's not like we're that far apart, but it was 35 degrees here yesterday...
seriously 66! Roll Eyes
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buckzumhoff
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« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2019, 01:37:22 PM »

Hamilton knew what Winnipeg was going to do , And when they had the ball they did what Montreal did, drop get rid of the ball and throw to the open receiver in the middle , always at least one receiver open. Winnipeg should just run the ball and make it their offense. Because I cant see them throwing the ball . Run the ball every play put another end on the side . Feel bad for the lineup of receivers, you don't see the ball with this offense.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2019, 01:54:03 PM »

yeah but every running play doesn't have to be Harris up the gut... or every Whitehead play a jet sweep, of the 'jet sweep' screen... and the screen pass to Harris on 2nd and long... etc...

like I said, I loved the running play for Demski with the fake to Harris and Harris pulling the defense to the outside while Demski takes it up the gut...

plus, tonight it seemed like Streveler had orders to not move out of the pocket and run but stand in there and throw it... which isn't all bad, but, he needs to be able to run when he feels like it's the better option... 

it just gets frustrating when if becomes so 'safe' and very predictable... and isn't working yet we keep on doing it... Lapo is supposed to be the offensive guru... I honestly think I could do a better job most of the time...

people harp about Streveler needing to be better at reading the defense, but, when the play called is a dump pass to Harris and he's open so you throw it to him... you can hardly criticize Streveler's ability when the play called is 'there' and he does as he supposed to do...
That is bad. Streveler isn't Nichols and we shouldn't try to make him play like Nichols. Streveler's big advantage is his running ability. Use that like we did in the first half against Montreal. Let him get comfortable. Hopefully get a lead. Then throw the ball where the LB's were cuz they will have to move forward to take care of the run.
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tlf
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« Reply #55 on: September 28, 2019, 01:55:42 PM »

seriously hot here where I'm at... I was caught off guard at first when I saw Sarah all bundled up on the side lines... and it's not like we're that far apart, but it was 35 degrees here yesterday...

Thermal layer, thin jacket and super thick hoodie.  I know for next game better footwear.  That?s the key. The cardboard under the feet and warm feet.  
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2019, 06:04:35 PM »

seriously 66! Roll Eyes

sure enough! still wearing the short pants and flip flops... actually worked on my AC unit yesterday as it was overheating and shutting itself down... not anymore though, lol...

it rained last night and it's a bit over cast today but it's still 27 degrees today right now... supposed to be 31 tomorrow and then 32 until a cool down Thursday where it will finally drop to 19/20 degrees...

I don't even think about digging out a jacket until at least October, may start wearing some long sleeve Tees before then but yeah...

lol... I just looked at the date and time on my computer and see that it's only 2 days until October... I thought I had at least couple of weeks, if not 3 to go...  Grin
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Knocker42
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« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2019, 06:23:15 PM »

Even though I have been a STH for fifty years, I did not grow up in Canada and never played the game.  I guess I'm a slow learner but I'm confused about something and would appreciate it if someone would set me straight.
My belief has always been that, on most plays, each receiver would run a designated route.  The quarterback would be aware of all routes being run on the play.  He would have a mental list of the plays, probably arranged in the order the team thinks are most likely to be productive on that play.  The QB surveys the scene in front of him, probably in the order on that list, and decides where the best chance of a gain lies.  Based on that, he throws the pass he chooses as the best option.
Is this accurate in most instances?  (I realize there will be times when a quick pass will be made to a predetermined receiver but these are less frequent)

If the above is accurate, and I'm open to correction on that, why do people say the scheme is at fault when no long passes are attempted?  (or not enough of them) Surely, on most plays one or more receiver will be going deep and it is up to the quarterback to decide where the ball goes within the framework of the play.
Please show me where I'm wrong here.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2019, 04:54:50 AM »

Even though I have been a STH for fifty years, I did not grow up in Canada and never played the game.  I guess I'm a slow learner but I'm confused about something and would appreciate it if someone would set me straight.
My belief has always been that, on most plays, each receiver would run a designated route.  The quarterback would be aware of all routes being run on the play.  He would have a mental list of the plays, probably arranged in the order the team thinks are most likely to be productive on that play.  The QB surveys the scene in front of him, probably in the order on that list, and decides where the best chance of a gain lies.  Based on that, he throws the pass he chooses as the best option.
Is this accurate in most instances?  (I realize there will be times when a quick pass will be made to a predetermined receiver but these are less frequent)

If the above is accurate, and I'm open to correction on that, why do people say the scheme is at fault when no long passes are attempted?  (or not enough of them) Surely, on most plays one or more receiver will be going deep and it is up to the quarterback to decide where the ball goes within the framework of the play.
Please show me where I'm wrong here.

yes and no... and a lot of it depends on who is responsible for actual play calling... plus there is always a chance of an audible at the line of scrimmage... but I will give you the  standard of how it is done the majority of the time...

a coach, either the head coach or the OC, will send a play in to the QB... the play call will tell everyone their assignments; blocking, route running, primary target, and the expected progression of target reads when the primary target is 'covered', and may include a 'hot route'... a 'hot route' is a designated receiver that becomes the primary target when the QB needs to get rid of the ball fast due to the rush...  so, in the most simple scenario of a passing play, once the ball is snapped the QB first looks to the primary target and if open, throws the ball... if covered he begins his predetermined progression of targets specific to the play called... that's not to say that due to a break down in coverage that a QB spots an open receiver and makes a throw regardless of the predetermined target progression...

there can also be, and there usually is, a predetermined variation to each passing play based upon how the defense lines up... this is something that both the receivers and the QB must know and each has to make a read at the line of scrimmage of the defense and determine their specific assignment... in some cases nothing changes but in others a receiver's route or target progression can change based upon how the defense lines up... so the responsibility to make the right defensive 'read' is on both the QB and the receiver...

another variable is that not all passing plays will include every receiver in the designed target progression as receivers can be used to move the defense, create space or preferred match ups for the primary receiver, or have blocking responsibilities either in the back field or down field after the completion...

however, it is very structured and seldom is it left up to the QB to just throw to who ever they want in any given play except for what is referred to as the 'check down'...  the check down is when the QB determines that nobody in the progression is open and throws the ball to the check down receiver... the check down receiver is usually a short yardage route at or near the line of scrimmage and can be either a running back or a receiver...

but long story short, your OC, or play caller, is expecting the QB to throw to the first person they find open in accordance with the target progression specific to the play called...   
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #59 on: September 29, 2019, 10:34:54 AM »

how can we execute so well in that first series on offense, have a very dominate 70+ yard drive for a TD and then look so lost for the rest of the game?  I get that the first series is generally a scripted series and one they work on during the week, but... if that's the case, then just script some more series, lol...

if anyone has a explanation I'd love to hear it because I just don't get it...

HAM didn't bring any heat our first drive, that's why.  Immediately to start the 2nd drive they brought heat the whole rest of the game.  And our OL was hot crap most of the night.

Now that Neuf and Speller are both healed, why are we not Neuf-Couture-Speller?!?!?!

No one played well.  Maybe Lawler.  He seemed into it.

Lawler was great!  He probably had the most non-YAC yards in a game out of any of our receivers in any game this year.

I would also say Jeffcoat was pretty good coming back.  He did that FF we didn't recover, and he was soooo close to getting more FF's and sacks many times.  Unlike Jefferson, he doesn't go to sleep and back off before the whistle.

My belief has always been that, on most plays, each receiver would run a designated route[...]

If the above is accurate, and I'm open to correction on that, why do people say the scheme is at fault when no long passes are attempted?

I'd say you're pretty much right in your description.  The reason it's playcalling when no long passes are attempted is because it's pretty clear Lapo/MOS have told Strev not to throw deep (except on special occasions like the doomed one to Adams).  Any deep ("go") routes for us now are just decoys.  HAM knows it, so they have their DBs cheat up to cover the run and short game.

Even if you want to throw deep, most often deeper routes are used to open up the intermediate routes, and the deep routes aren't even options for the QB (again, decoys).  This is actually smart ball, but it only works well if you throw deep sometimes so the DBs stay honest!

I don't know how they're going to do it in 1-3 weeks, but they need to get Strev going with the deep pass immediately.  Doesn't have to be anything special: just do it like Nichols in '18, where we try 1-2 a game and hopefully connect on 1.  Even if we don't, we force the DBs to (hopefully) stay honest.

OMG, once again you have to give a nod of the hat to the CFL officials... Hamilton was only off sides by 5 yards or so in the second series of the 2nd half and not a flag one... of course it was on a 2nd down and 9 where they convert as well with a 21 yard completion to the guy that was off sides...  end result it allows the TiCats to add to the lead with a field goal a few plays latter...

If you mean 3Q7:06, it's not offside.  the SBs are at least 2 feet behind the LOS.  If you have a good PVR, freeze it precisely before the ball is snapped.  You'll see it's cool.  The reason it appears OS is that Banks is so bloody fast, and he times it fairly well.
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rubanski
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« Reply #60 on: September 29, 2019, 08:58:58 PM »

agreed...

but based on what you witnessed tonight, would you be surprised to see that at the end of it all that:

1. total yards at the end, 415 to 402...
2. time of possession, 27:11 Hamilton, 32:49 Winnipeg...
3. we held Hamilton to only 70 yards in the 2nd half...
4. Streveler threw for over 300 yards, first time this year for the Bombers...
5. Lawler some how during the game had 144 yards receiving...

just watching the game I would have bet that items 1 thru 4 were lies... true story...

Some surprises for sure. Hamilton let us put up the last 70 or so yards in prevent D at the end. If we get a TD instead of Strev throwing that terrible pick in the 4th, it's a real close game.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #61 on: September 29, 2019, 09:00:57 PM »

Some surprises for sure. Hamilton let us put up the last 70 or so yards in prevent D at the end. If we get a TD instead of Strev throwing that terrible pick in the 4th, it's a real close game.

The biggest surprise is the 5 1/2 minute TOP advantage we had. Part of that was due to quick / easy long yardage plays for Hamilton.
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swansong
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« Reply #62 on: September 29, 2019, 09:18:02 PM »

The reason it's playcalling when no long passes are attempted is because it's pretty clear Lapo/MOS have told Strev not to throw deep (except on special occasions like the doomed one to Adams).  Any deep ("go") routes for us now are just decoys.  HAM knows it, so they have their DBs cheat up to cover the run and short game.

In the case of the last game the lack of deep balls could be they are the last reads in the progression and if the O'line can't provide enough protection there is no time to get to those reads.
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blue girl
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« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2019, 09:26:13 PM »

The biggest surprise is the 5 1/2 minute TOP advantage we had. Part of that was due to quick / easy long yardage plays for Hamilton.
Actually the TOP doesn't surprise me. Remember we had that long first drive that used about 7 minutes and Hamilton had quick drives with explosion plays. And the TD after the interception that sealed the game wasn't very long. This is why they say that statistics are for losers.
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J5V
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« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2019, 06:13:49 AM »

Isn't it just possible that after 4 years of seeing Richie Hall's tricks that other teams have figured out how to beat his defense? ie. Move the ball quickly to nullify our D-line then exploit the soft secondary.

Isn't it just possible that after 3 years of seeing Lapo's tricks that other teams have figured out how to beat his offense? ie. Stack the box, string the plays out horizontally and force Lapo to call a vertical game for 60 minutes.

O'Shea isn't concerned. He looks at the film to see where things have gone wrong and he then instructs his coaches and players.

That works exactly as long as it takes for the other team to adjust to what we're doing. Neither Lapo nor Hall make the counter moves with the same regularity as their competition. Our entire game plan is predicated on scoring early and often until adjustments are made and then trying to hang on.

It was working early in the season against the weaker teams. Lately though, when it matters (last Q against Montreal and first 2 Qs against Hamilton) the good teams are scoring on us at a 60-point-a-game clip. We are scoring on them at a 13-point-a-game clip.

The good teams are capable of making the right adjustments to what we do and they make those adjustments multiple times throughout the game. Us, not so much.

I'd lay it all at the feet of Hall and Lapo except for one thing. They take their orders from the head coach. I suspect he's the one trying to stubbornly hammer square pegs into round holes.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2019, 07:56:01 AM »

In the case of the last game the lack of deep balls could be they are the last reads in the progression and if the O'line can't provide enough protection there is no time to get to those reads.

If the go routes are last reads, then that is a major failing of our O plan.  BLM always says he favors the deep balls first.  On a go route you usually know you've got the play as soon as the receiver has gone about 20 yards past the LOS.  It's not like you need time for the receiver to go 50 yards down before you know the read is good.  The deep ball read should take half a second longer than the shorter reads.  You might also have to sit in the pocket and be willing to take the hit for another half second before you chuck it, too.

Maybe that's Strev's problem: he never wants to take a hit in the pocket, he always wants to run.  I don't think I've ever seen Strev take a hit in the pocket while waiting to make a pass.  Might be a common problem among "running" QBs, whereas wimpy pocket-passers (R.Ray) have no other option than to just sit there make the pass and take the hit.
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