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Author Topic: Alternatives for our # 3 QB  (Read 3773 times)
Blue In BC
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« on: August 26, 2019, 05:48:53 PM »

Just thought a new thread for possible ideas might be in order instead of the specific Drew Willy thread.

It's possible the team is doing something today but I suspect it may not be announced until we resume practice. Partially because of the A. Harris announcement earlier. Partially because some teams may be making roster decisions after the weekend games etc.

More and more if there is a trade Franklin seems like the most obvious choice if the asking price is not too high. A new chance might do wonders for him.

At this point any trade might be our least considered option. That's just an opinion and I guess we'll see whether it's our best option.

Many posters have suggested some retired QB's but we don't know any of them want to un-retire or not.

I am hopeful we have another QB at practice this week on day 1.




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TBURGESS
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2019, 06:17:42 PM »

It's been discussed to death, just not in it's own thread.

Franklin or Jennings if you're willing to trade assets. Bridge if you aren't.

I'd like to see another QB on the roster RFN. Streveler taking a big hit and looking wobbly made me very worried we'd have to see what McGuire brings to the table way too early.
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the paw
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2019, 06:32:43 PM »

It's been discussed to death, just not in it's own thread.

Franklin or Jennings if you're willing to trade assets. Bridge if you aren't.

I'd like to see another QB on the roster RFN. Streveler taking a big hit and looking wobbly made me very worried we'd have to see what McGuire brings to the table way too early.

I would not want to give up assets.  I maintain that its a short term rental, and anyone we can get via trade isn't really going to be in a much better position to help the club than any of the guys you don't have to trade for.  Also, I am betting after this weekend, Jennings is no longer available.  (Dom Davis might be, but hard pass).

In addition to Bridge, I would consider Jeff Matthews.  After those two, I think Drew Willy would not be the worst thing.  Someone suggested Alex Ross, which might be better than a total noob.
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bunker
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2019, 06:33:18 PM »

I still wonder what Franklin would look like with a good team around him and a good OC. He looked like the next great thing in Edmonton. Not convinced Strev is going to be the answer unless his passing game improves, and his style does make him more prone to injury.
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Waffler
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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2019, 07:40:59 PM »

Thoughts on Pipkin?
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lenny
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2019, 07:48:36 PM »

Thoughts on Pipkin?

Actually that's not a bad suggestion but he's the Als #2 backup at this point is he not? Can't see them moving him.
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dd
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2019, 07:51:08 PM »

Pimpkin ain?t going anywhere not without trades for assets, and if we re doing that then franklins in the conversation

Bridge would be worthwhile bringing in as #3 and would do better than Strev is presently doing passing wise
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DM83
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2019, 08:15:29 PM »

Yeeeeeck!
Slim pickings at best.

So just to muddy the waters,....one of you mentioned they have someone in mind. You didn't specify....why don't you speculate?

I don't mind trading assets.  Franklin could be a salary dump for Toronto.
The other thing to consider my fellow arm chair General Managers, is the long term future....ok next year.

I heard both Strev and Nichols need new contracts, so they are free agents and could be gone.  While we need immediate help, signing a younger potential gun slinger could be an excellent move for the future of the club.

Let's face it, Nichols and Strev, will never make the cover of "Quarterback weekly!"
Finally, I am sure many of us are thinking, THIS IS the year we get and win the Cup.( we are a very solid club) so let's get us someone who can actually reach a 300 yard passing game( remember those?)

Yes we might have to trade away some assets we prefer not to.
Walters likes to stand pat it seems, so while this is unlikely, so is a Grey Cup appearance without someone who can eclipse 90 yards passing.

Arbuckle of course....dream on
Franklin....
Jennings
.?
Not Bridge or Davis
Matthews? I don't recall.him at all.
Who was the. Guy Montreal had who cut off his hair for cancer research?

We have one of the better O lines, so someone ancient like Kevin Or Ricky Ray wouldn't necessarily get killed......in the meantime any other ideas? 
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bowlerdude
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2019, 08:19:57 PM »

Pipkin is so bad

Receivers are just as capable of dropping any other QB's passes

Maybe give Streveler more than one game in a downpour, against one of the best defenses and best pass rushing team in the league, where he had four very well-placed passes go incomplete and did the game manager thing very well before we replace him for beating a 6-3 team
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2019, 08:37:25 PM »

It's been discussed to death, just not in it's own thread.

Franklin or Jennings if you're willing to trade assets. Bridge if you aren't.

I'd like to see another QB on the roster RFN. Streveler taking a big hit and looking wobbly made me very worried we'd have to see what McGuire brings to the table way too early.

Some complained and suggested it as thread hijacking. Might not have been you regarding QB's but IIRC you did want a separate thread to discuss whether Neufeld was injury prone.

You can't have it both ways.

Doesn't matter if it's discussed to death because it was discussed to death in the Drew Willy thread .

We're still looking for the alternative. Until late last week we were not certain Franklin would come off the IR.

So things have changed in that regard.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2019, 08:40:13 PM »

Actually that's not a bad suggestion but he's the Als #2 backup at this point is he not? Can't see them moving him.

Well they just extended Shiltz today. That may or may not factor into their decisions.

As of today Pipkin is a potential free agent and Shiltz and Adams are not.

I agree that Ottawa might have been considering whether to jettison Jennings but that probably changed or got delayed after their game this weekend.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 08:43:48 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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theaardvark
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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2019, 09:23:25 PM »

I have no problem with trading for a QB.  Assets are worthless without wins... make the deal. 
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2019, 09:39:14 PM »

I have no problem with trading for a QB.  Assets are worthless without wins... make the deal. 

Depends on which assets are trade for the new asset gained. It's possible there is a win win for both teams but it's against the odds.

Not every team has a QB they want to give up and if they do may want an asset we don't want to give up.

It's arguable whether any QB is going to be better than an NFL cut or neg list signing.

Can't disagree that assets don't mean much without wins but who is to say Streveler doesn't stay healthy and start lighting it up?

If he doesn't we may see McGuire before a QB we trade for at this point in the season. The coaches may have a high expectation that Nichols is back in 3 or 4 weeks or they may know he's gone for the season.

Unfortunately we don't know what they know that hasn't been disclosed.

Maybe someone that's gone to bunch of Bomber practices can say what he's looked like.

I'm not opposed to trading an asset. It will depend on whether it's good value for assets traded. Not every trade would be an overall benefit.

I wouldn't trade Jefferson for Franklin. I'd be willing to trade Roh for him though considering the re-signing of McAllister, the play of Kongbo and Hansen and the chance Jeffcoat returns in a couple of games.

Argos appear to be out of the playoffs so they may be looking to shed SMS but maybe not. They may also be looking at 2020 and who they keep with the rest of the season as more auditions.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 09:54:09 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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theaardvark
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« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2019, 10:12:36 PM »

Depends on which assets are trade for the new asset gained. It's possible there is a win win for both teams but it's against the odds.

Not every team has a QB they want to give up and if they do may want an asset we don't want to give up.

It's arguable whether any QB is going to be better than an NFL cut or neg list signing.

Can't disagree that assets don't mean much without wins but who is to say Streveler doesn't stay healthy and start lighting it up?

If he doesn't we may see McGuire before a QB we trade for at this point in the season. The coaches may have a high expectation that Nichols is back in 3 or 4 weeks or they may know he's gone for the season.

Unfortunately we don't know what they know that hasn't been disclosed.

Maybe someone that's gone to bunch of Bomber practices can say what he's looked like.

I'm not opposed to trading an asset. It will depend on whether it's good value for assets traded. Not every trade would be an overall benefit.

I wouldn't trade Jefferson for Franklin. I'd be willing to trade Roh for him though considering the re-signing of McAllister, the play of Kongbo and Hansen and the chance Jeffcoat returns in a couple of games.

Argos appear to be out of the playoffs so they may be looking to shed SMS but maybe not. They may also be looking at 2020 and who they keep with the rest of the season as more auditions.

The ask for Franklin was reported to be a 2nd rounder.  That asset is well in proportion to the gain.
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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2019, 10:54:18 PM »

The ask for Franklin was reported to be a 2nd rounder.  That asset is well in proportion to the gain.

Yes that is what I read, I think the pick should be conditional based on how many games Franklin plays and if he re-signs with the Bombers if he plays in 3+ games or Signs for next year then a 2nd is fair if he is just a backup and gone after this year a 3-4th rounder would more than fair.

I just can't believe that its taken this long to get a QB since they really need 2 one for the Roster and one for the Practice Roster. I personally doubt Nichols will be 100% the rest of 2019 if he dislocated his throwing Shoulder and he might never be the same based on other QBs that had the same injury.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 10:59:57 PM by BBFANDM » Logged
pjrocksmb
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« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2019, 12:10:26 AM »

Bring in a QB from NFL for nothing (cuts) and hope Nichols comes back and is ok and Strev can go 500.  Pretty simple.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2019, 12:14:29 AM »

Yes that is what I read, I think the pick should be conditional based on how many games Franklin plays and if he re-signs with the Bombers if he plays in 3+ games or Signs for next year then a 2nd is fair if he is just a backup and gone after this year a 3-4th rounder would more than fair.

I just can't believe that its taken this long to get a QB since they really need 2 one for the Roster and one for the Practice Roster. I personally doubt Nichols will be 100% the rest of 2019 if he dislocated his throwing Shoulder and he might never be the same based on other QBs that had the same injury.


No issues giving up our 2nd for him to hold a clipboard all year, and if he plays/signs, make it a first... or add in the next years second...
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blue girl
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« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2019, 12:29:50 AM »

My first choice is Brandon Bridge. After that a conditional trade for James Franklin. And please no more mention of Ricky Ray or Travis Lulay. They probably don't want to un-retire. A body can only take so many beat downs.
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Blue In Edmonton
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« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2019, 02:37:39 AM »

I have zero interest in an NFL cut who has never seen a CFL field or playbook. That will do nothing for us if something happens to Streveler. I'd send a 2 to Toronto for Franklin.
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« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2019, 02:50:56 AM »

I have zero interest in an NFL cut who has never seen a CFL field or playbook. That will do nothing for us if something happens to Streveler. I'd send a 2 to Toronto for Franklin.

Hard no on a second rounder. I?d go with a fourth tops
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bunker
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« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2019, 03:23:58 AM »

I have zero interest in an NFL cut who has never seen a CFL field or playbook. That will do nothing for us if something happens to Streveler. I'd send a 2 to Toronto for Franklin.
I'm on board with this. Any NFL cut at QB will be brought in with next year in mind at the earliest. They can't pick up the CFL game and our offence that quickly.

I would see if Toronto would make the pick conditional, a second if Franklin starts X number of games, a third if not. We have lots of young Canadian talent, and cannot keep everyone. A pick is expendable for some security at the most important position on the field.
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DM83
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« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2019, 03:53:29 AM »

No NFL cut except maybe Doug Flutie could help us for the next 3 months. No wait, that. Former San Francisco 49er guy with the Fro who was blackballed.  He. Could run that read option.

Brandon Bridge..that's an Embarassment. No!

How bout the. Guy from Sask that we signed, he took the bonus then quit.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 04:33:57 AM by ModAdmin » Logged
dd
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« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2019, 04:57:24 AM »

Bridge is an embarassment?? Darian Durant is even worse of an embarrassment !! No way no how would I even entertain calling him. That bridge is burnt and speaking of bridge, he?s the obvious Choice for #3 and if not him then Franklin. Franklin would do miles better than streveler with our current roster and O line
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M.O.A.B.
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« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2019, 04:59:27 AM »

ill go conditional 3rd for Franklin, upgraded to second if he resigns with the Bombers.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2019, 05:33:42 AM »

if all that is left is cull QBs, why waste the money on signing one... if you 'killed' 3 QBs during the course of just part of a season, haven't you hurt enough players in the first place?

but seriously, if you are signing one to help the current QBs, Nichols is able to be at practice and games for that... that signing a cull QB would probably be no better than letting Darvin play QB, why waste the money? 

save the money or use it on a different impact player that could actually play and contribute to the team on the field...
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DM83
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« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2019, 11:22:28 AM »

Huh?
Adams is hurt
They need a third QB.

Stay on track, now.
Who is the.guy?

Agreed, Franklin would be a better choice.  But it's becoming more apparent Collaris is done, so Toronto still needs a back up. So the Franklin pick up may be out the window.  If MBH became available grab him, obviously, but same scenario,...they still need back up.

They need to get somebody.
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Sec223
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« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2019, 11:27:22 AM »

#17 is going to be a huge target. Hope we don't need to look for 2 QB's.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2019, 12:32:14 PM »

OK, Franklin... Conditional picks?  We are looking for insurance, not a long term solution.  Unless Franklin comes in and blows the coaches away in practice and beats out McGuire and Streveler for the backup to Nichols role, he is a rental.  Like Stasny or Hayes... for the rest of the season, and if he wins a spot, great. 

So, conditional picks aren't really a concern, but if it makes a difference to get Popp to pull the trigger, a conditional 2nd that becomes a first if he starts a playoff game or he re-signs. 
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2019, 01:05:10 PM »

I'm on board with this. Any NFL cut at QB will be brought in with next year in mind at the earliest. They can't pick up the CFL game and our offence that quickly.

I would see if Toronto would make the pick conditional, a second if Franklin starts X number of games, a third if not. We have lots of young Canadian talent, and cannot keep everyone. A pick is expendable for some security at the most important position on the field.

We have lots of good Canadian talent but how many of them are potential free agents going into 2020?

Woli, Petermann, Speller, Hecht off the top of my head are all in their last year of contract. So giving up a 2nd round pick is always a risk.

We may not lose any of our Canadians in free agency but we lost 3 starters going into 2019.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2019, 01:08:15 PM »

OK, Franklin... Conditional picks?  We are looking for insurance, not a long term solution.  Unless Franklin comes in and blows the coaches away in practice and beats out McGuire and Streveler for the backup to Nichols role, he is a rental.  Like Stasny or Hayes... for the rest of the season, and if he wins a spot, great. 

So, conditional picks aren't really a concern, but if it makes a difference to get Popp to pull the trigger, a conditional 2nd that becomes a first if he starts a playoff game or he re-signs. 

One issue with giving up value for a QB via trade is that you can't roster four QBs. So, if Nichols heals up faster than expected (or is actually just out 4-6 weeks) you now have a situation where you are hoping McGuire takes a PR spot or you're releasing the guy you traded for.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2019, 01:30:43 PM »

One issue with giving up value for a QB via trade is that you can't roster four QBs. So, if Nichols heals up faster than expected (or is actually just out 4-6 weeks) you now have a situation where you are hoping McGuire takes a PR spot or you're releasing the guy you traded for.

Then you fake an injury and move a QB to 1 game IR. That's where the Argos put O'Connor for example.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2019, 02:05:56 PM »

Just say no to any QB without CFL experience. We already have 1 of those and an inexperienced starter.

Any QB we bring in now would be insurance for this year, would learn our offence, would show the coaches if he's a player or a JAG (Just Another Guy). He'd also be insurance assuming we lose one of Nichols/Streveler in the off season.

Pushing McGuire to the PR if/when Nichols comes back isn't much of a downside IMO. No one else will sign him at that time of the year so his choices would be PR or go home. Gotta assume the CFL experienced QB would be better than McGuire anyway.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2019, 02:12:56 PM »

Then you fake an injury and move a QB to 1 game IR. That's where the Argos put O'Connor for example.

You're right. Could definitely do that.
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DM83
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« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2019, 03:11:23 PM »

Who cares about McGuire?

If you all thought he could play, then why are we discussing acquiring anither QB.?

Well the point is, if you don't think we are Grey Cup contenders, then do nothing.
But if Nichols doesn't come back, and Strev gets hurt, then what?  McGuire? Really? My God!
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2019, 03:14:46 PM »

Who cares about McGuire?

If you all thought he could play, then why are we discussing acquiring anither QB.?

Well the point is, if you don't think we are Grey Cup contenders, then do nothing.
But if Nichols doesn't come back, and Strev gets hurt, then what?  McGuire? Really? My God!

Yes, you need someone for this year. I agree. However, if you think McGuire is a blue chip prospect at the most important position on the field you have to find a way to keep him.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2019, 03:22:43 PM »

Every QB in the CFL was JAG when he arrived. BLM, Reilly, Nichols, Jennings etc. Some QB's progress very quickly and are forced into starting roles due to injury. Some have success and some fail but it depends on how good the supporting roster is around them.

Prior to this season Fajardo only had about 70 pass attempts. Who knew?

Obviously if we find a QB with CFL experience that would provide more of a comfort zone. OTOH it's why we put QB's on neg lists.

I've never seen McGuire in practice. He may be out of the CFL in 2020 or he may end up becoming a good QB in the future. The question will always be how soon in the future. Until he plays only the coaches have some idea.

1st practice this week is Wednesday. I'm expecting an addition to be announced maybe even 2. Adding a neg list to the PR wouldn't be the worst idea even if we find a CFL vet.

If we don't add anybody this week I'd find that strange. Anybody is better than nobody you'd think.

Any QB is going to need time to learn the play book and develop chemistry with the receivers.


A question if a trade occurs:

1. If a trade is made and a new QB joins the roster tomorrow we'd be paying the game day check.
2. If a trade is made this Saturday there would be no opportunity to add him to roster for this weeks game.

So which team pays the player when a trade is made based on the timing of the trade. Is there an SMS consideration as to the application?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 03:32:21 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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theaardvark
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« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2019, 03:43:21 PM »

One issue with giving up value for a QB via trade is that you can't roster four QBs. So, if Nichols heals up faster than expected (or is actually just out 4-6 weeks) you now have a situation where you are hoping McGuire takes a PR spot or you're releasing the guy you traded for.

You can IR a player... and depending on where the players end up in the pecking order, that's always an option.  With the $M$ we are saving with Nichols on the 6 game, we can easily carry 4 QB's through the playoffs... which would be an amazing depth to have.  Nichols, Streveler, McGuire AND Franklin?  Really, you don't think taking that roster into the playoffs is worth a second rounder (hopefully the last pick of the second round)?
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2019, 03:52:01 PM »

You can IR a player... and depending on where the players end up in the pecking order, that's always an option.  With the $M$ we are saving with Nichols on the 6 game, we can easily carry 4 QB's through the playoffs... which would be an amazing depth to have.  Nichols, Streveler, McGuire AND Franklin?  Really, you don't think taking that roster into the playoffs is worth a second rounder (hopefully the last pick of the second round)?

No I don't think it's worth a 2nd rounder considering how badly Franklin has played in Toronto or that he becomes a free agent going into 2020.

Doesn't help if Nichols is on the roster going into the playoffs if he's still on the IR and can't practice or play.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2019, 03:57:23 PM »

No I don't think it's worth a 2nd rounder considering how badly Franklin has played in Toronto or that he becomes a free agent going into 2020.

Doesn't help if Nichols is on the roster going into the playoffs if he's still on the IR and can't practice or play.

Franklin has played badly in Toronto because its Toronto.  Who has played well?

For a 3rd (4th) Qb on the roster, I can't imagine getting a better player.  If Nichols does not come off the IR this year, then for sure we need that depth.  If he does, we can have one of teh other develop a bad case of turf toe and get a full paycheque on the 1 game. 
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Colton
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« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2019, 04:05:19 PM »

Franklin has played badly in Toronto because its Toronto.  Who has played well?


Can't use this excuse when he's been outplayed by McLeod Bethel-Thompson on that very same team.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2019, 04:10:35 PM »

Can't use this excuse when he's been outplayed by McLeod Bethel-Thompson on that very same team.

He has played 2 games this year, in each he put up stats better than MBT, with the exception of INTs. 
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Colton
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« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2019, 04:27:00 PM »

He has played 2 games this year, in each he put up stats better than MBT, with the exception of INTs. 

He did? Which stats are those?

Completions per game:
Franklin - 18
MBT - 21

Completion %:
Franklin - 66.7%
MBT - 68.5%

Yards per game:
Franklin - 217.5
MBT - 250.6

TDs per game:
Franklin - 0.5
MBT - 1.5

INT per game:
Franklin - 1.5
MBT - 1

TD/INT Ratio:
Franklin - 0.33
MBT - 1.55

Efficiency:
Franklin - 74.2
MBT - 96.5

INT%:
Franklin - 5.6
MBT - 3.3

Average:
Franklin - 8.1
MBT - 8.2

Those are all of the stats available on CFL.ca. By my count, Franklin exceeds MBT in exactly 2 categories: INT per game & INT %, and that's generally considered a bad category to lead in by most experts.

Are there any other categories I'm missing?
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2019, 04:33:49 PM »

I?m agreeing with TBurg 100% and it feels weird.
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« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2019, 04:34:22 PM »

Player                            CP/AT    %         YDS    TD    INT    LG
Jun 22
 FRANKLIN, James              16/26      61.5%    211    0    1    42
BETHEL-THOMPSON, Mcleod   9/16        56.3%    99    1    1    40

Jul 1
 FRANKLIN, James              20/28    71.4%    224    1    2    56
BETHEL-THOMPSON, Mcleod   3/6       50.0%    26    0    0    12




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theaardvark
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« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2019, 04:37:07 PM »

Just say no to any QB without CFL experience. We already have 1 of those and an inexperienced starter.

Any QB we bring in now would be insurance for this year, would learn our offence, would show the coaches if he's a player or a JAG (Just Another Guy). He'd also be insurance assuming we lose one of Nichols/Streveler in the off season.

Pushing McGuire to the PR if/when Nichols comes back isn't much of a downside IMO. No one else will sign him at that time of the year so his choices would be PR or go home. Gotta assume the CFL experienced QB would be better than McGuire anyway.

McGuire already refused a push to the PR, as did Bennett, which is why neither is on our PR...  we chose to keep McGuire on the roster...
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blueraid
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« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2019, 04:42:41 PM »

Watching Bethel-Thompson's play....IF he had an O Line comparable to ours this guy would be right up there with the best in the League....Of course most of the starters right now are back-ups BUT he'd be considered the best of the lot...including Adams in Mont.
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Colton
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« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2019, 04:44:36 PM »

Player                            CP/AT    %         YDS    TD    INT    LG
Jun 22
 FRANKLIN, James              16/26      61.5%    211    0    1    42
BETHEL-THOMPSON, Mcleod   9/16        56.3%    99    1    1    40

Jul 1
 FRANKLIN, James              20/28    71.4%    224    1    2    56
BETHEL-THOMPSON, Mcleod   3/6       50.0%    26    0    0    12






So when Franklin started over MBT he had better stats than MBT in a game where MBT was the backup? That's your argument?

Every game MBT has started, he's looked better than Franklin as a starter. If Toronto is the reason Franklin looked like garbage as a starter, why is MBT putting up great numbers with that same team?
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Pigskin
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« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2019, 04:44:54 PM »

The fact that Winnipeg hasn't moved on a 3rd. QB makes me think Matt will be back sooner then later.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 10:33:28 PM by Pigskin » Logged
theaardvark
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« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2019, 04:47:28 PM »

So when Franklin started over MBT he had better stats than MBT in a game where MBT was the backup? That's your argument?

Every game MBT has started, he's looked better than Franklin as a starter. If Toronto is the reason Franklin looked like garbage as a starter, why is MBT putting up great numbers with that same team?

When they are in the same game, with the same personnel, playing the same team, I guess that isn't a great way to compare them... 

Small sample size, but still.

Is Franklin a part of the Argos future?  Not anymore, I think.  Not sure who quit first, but both seem to have quit on each other, really...
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Colton
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« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2019, 04:52:19 PM »

When they are in the same game, with the same personnel, playing the same team, I guess that isn't a great way to compare them... 

Small sample size, but still.

Is Franklin a part of the Argos future?  Not anymore, I think.  Not sure who quit first, but both seem to have quit on each other, really...

So your best example of Franklin outplaying MBT, are games in which James Franklin started and got so blown out he was benched for MBT?
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bowlerdude
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« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2019, 04:54:33 PM »

MBT is much better than Franklin. It should be extremely obvious watching them play, but in case it isn't, it should also be extremely obvious by the fact that the Argos desperately wanted Franklin to be their guy and he still managed to lose the starting job to MBT twice.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 04:56:13 PM by bowlerdude » Logged
lenny
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« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2019, 05:02:41 PM »

MBT is much better than Franklin. It should be extremely obvious watching them play, but in case it isn't, it should also be extremely obvious by the fact that the Argos desperately wanted Franklin to be their guy and he still managed to lose the starting job to MBT twice

I agree regarding MBT and Franklin. I don't know what happened between going from the Esks to the Argos other than digression. We can blame it on all kinds of things but the fact of the matter both are playing with the same OL, offence etc. MBT playing the same amount of games as Nichols has over 300 more passing yds than him. His completion % is a very healthy 68.5.H's tied for second with Harris with 14TD passes. Nichols leads with 1 more. He's playing behind a dump of a team but his stats put him right up there in the CFL.

Franklin would be an ok backup though.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2019, 05:45:36 PM »

Watching Bethel-Thompson's play....IF he had an O Line comparable to ours this guy would be right up there with the best in the League....Of course most of the starters right now are back-ups BUT he'd be considered the best of the lot...including Adams in Mont.

I seriously doubt anybody would consider him better over Fajardo or Arbuckle. They might not even think he's better than Jennings.

I think his football IQ is low and eventually he becomes a turnover machine. That was the knock on him in the NFL.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 05:48:11 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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bluegold4life
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« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2019, 05:54:45 PM »

Yeeeeeck!
Slim pickings at best.

So just to muddy the waters,....one of you mentioned they have someone in mind. You didn't specify....why don't you speculate?

I don't mind trading assets.  Franklin could be a salary dump for Toronto.
The other thing to consider my fellow arm chair General Managers, is the long term future....ok next year.

I heard both Strev and Nichols need new contracts, so they are free agents and could be gone.  While we need immediate help, signing a younger potential gun slinger could be an excellent move for the future of the club.

Let's face it, Nichols and Strev, will never make the cover of "Quarterback weekly!"
Finally, I am sure many of us are thinking, THIS IS the year we get and win the Cup.( we are a very solid club) so let's get us someone who can actually reach a 300 yard passing game( remember those?)

Yes we might have to trade away some assets we prefer not to.
Walters likes to stand pat it seems, so while this is unlikely, so is a Grey Cup appearance without someone who can eclipse 90 yards passing.

Arbuckle of course....dream on
Franklin....
Jennings
.?
Not Bridge or Davis
Matthews? I don't recall.him at all.
Who was the. Guy Montreal had who cut off his hair for cancer research?

We have one of the better O lines, so someone ancient like Kevin Or Ricky Ray wouldn't necessarily get killed......in the meantime any other ideas? 

Why would Nichols need a new contract? He is signed through next season. He becomes a FA after next year (2021 Free Agent Class)
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bowlerdude
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« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2019, 07:16:29 PM »

I seriously doubt anybody would consider him better over Fajardo or Arbuckle. They might not even think he's better than Jennings.

I think his football IQ is low and eventually he becomes a turnover machine. That was the knock on him in the NFL.

Bethel-Thompson? He's absolutely a turnover machine, and that can be a fatal flaw, but he's a pretty good QB besides that. I don't agree with the idea of him being up there with the best in the league if he had an OL comparable to ours (especially since ours in its current state isn't great at pass blocking anyway), but he's way better than Jennings and although I could understand if people think Fajardo is better, I'd pretty strongly disagree with that (honestly, seems like Fajardo is still riding a high from lighting up Ottawa and Toronto early in the year in a lot of people's minds, he's not done a lot since and has like 630 yards and 0 TDs in four games against defenses that aren't bottom-3 in the CFL)

As for Arbuckle, well, he definitely has way higher upside and has performed better this season, although I don't know that he wouldn't have similar issues to MBT if he had to play in Toronto instead of Calgary. He's a better decision maker for sure though.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 07:19:59 PM by bowlerdude » Logged
gobombersgo
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« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2019, 07:32:52 PM »

The fact that Winnipeg has moved on a 3rd. QB makes me think Matt will be back sooner then later.
I think that the Bombers are still looking to bring in another QB it just may not be one with lots of CFL experience.

I wouldn't be surprised if they announce a QB signing tomorrow morning.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2019, 08:08:20 PM »

Can't use this excuse when he's been outplayed by McLeod Bethel-Thompson on that very same team.

but Franklin didn't make it 3 quarters before getting hurt... who's to say that he couldn't, wouldn't, have similar are better numbers... not saying he would just that we really don't know... and Toronto's pass protection has improved over the course of 10 games, but early on it was bad...

put Franklin behind a good O line and you'd see results similar to what he did in Edmonton behind a good O line...  but it's a lot like Reilly's deal now, you can't make it happen when you're a) running for your life, or b) laying on your back because you got sacked, especially 36 times...
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2019, 08:13:19 PM »

Bethel-Thompson? He's absolutely a turnover machine, and that can be a fatal flaw, but he's a pretty good QB besides that. I don't agree with the idea of him being up there with the best in the league if he had an OL comparable to ours (especially since ours in its current state isn't great at pass blocking anyway), but he's way better than Jennings and although I could understand if people think Fajardo is better, I'd pretty strongly disagree with that (honestly, seems like Fajardo is still riding a high from lighting up Ottawa and Toronto early in the year in a lot of people's minds, he's not done a lot since and has like 630 yards and 0 TDs in four games against defenses that aren't bottom-3 in the CFL)

As for Arbuckle, well, he definitely has way higher upside and has performed better this season, although I don't know that he wouldn't have similar issues to MBT if he had to play in Toronto instead of Calgary. He's a better decision maker for sure though.

Fajardo is working within a very good system and similar to Nichols doesn't need to win the game all on his shoulders. He's making very few mistakes, very accurate in his throws and has good mobility.

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bowlerdude
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« Reply #58 on: August 27, 2019, 08:52:39 PM »

Fajardo is working within a very good system and similar to Nichols doesn't need to win the game all on his shoulders. He's making very few mistakes, very accurate in his throws and has good mobility.

I mean, he wouldn't be the first QB I'm wrong about. But I don't think he's done much besides light up two bad defenses in weeks 2 and 3. He may be game managing well but he's played 5 games against bottom-3 defenses. And Nichols at least got the ball into the endzone - he's still leading the league in passing touchdowns - Fajardo, on the other hand, is 8th. I don't like him much and I think the shine will wear off with Winnipeg x3, Edmonton x2 and Calgary in his second half schedule.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 08:55:21 PM by bowlerdude » Logged
Blue In BC
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« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2019, 09:02:22 PM »

I mean, he wouldn't be the first QB I'm wrong about. But I don't think he's done much besides light up two bad defenses in weeks 2 and 3. He may be game managing well but he's played 5 games against bottom-3 defenses. And Nichols at least got the ball into the endzone - he's still leading the league in passing touchdowns - Fajardo, on the other hand, is 8th. I don't like him much and I think the shine will wear off with Winnipeg x3, Edmonton x2 and Calgary in his second half schedule.

As long as it wears off for the next two weeks.

Anyway. The point being is that he seems to be a QB with a higher football IQ. I'll take that over a strong armed one that is mistake prone which is what MBT has shown in both his NFL and CFL careers. He hasn't exactly been doing against better teams.

90 yards in the 1st game against Edmonton. Shudder that sounds like Streveler stats. 200 yards in the 2nd game against Edmonton. He threw for 343 yards against Calgary but 4 int's

It's the same problem with Jennings.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 09:06:18 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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DM83
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« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2019, 12:42:52 AM »

In reality, all these. Backups are kind of weak.  Fajardo looks. Good b/c Sask hasn't played very good teams.
MBT is a turn-over machine, but what if he had an O line and a defence in front of him?

Arbuckle I considered a starter.  He is head and shoulders above the rest

Poor Ottawa, they are up the crock without a paddle. Davis should be cut

Harsh
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Ridermania
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« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2019, 12:46:28 AM »

Pipkin may be on the market as they just extended Schiltz for next year.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #62 on: August 28, 2019, 08:46:51 AM »

Pipkin may be on the market as they just extended Schiltz for next year.

I don't like the idea of Pipkin that much.  But... he may make a good fit in WPG (MOS locker room type guy, etc, yada) and he's cheap enough we could maybe keep him around on the PR as #3 in 2020.

I still think Franklin is miles away the best realistic option for WPG, as a backup to Strev.

But my dream option, if Strev fails to win much, is to rent Mike Reilly from BC for the last 5-ish games and the postseason, then hand him back to BC for 2020.  Most of MR's salary has been paid already by BC.  BC is out of the playoffs in 1-2 weeks pretty much guaranteed.  BC could develop their #2 during season-garbage-time.  And MR would probably love to come win a cup/ring in WPG rather than get pummelled in BC for no reason whatsoever.

I still think Strev gets'er'done and we just sign some whomever as #3 until Nichols comes back to win the GC.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2019, 12:48:02 PM »

Pretty hard to find a vet QB who has already left the game who would be willing to put his outside life on hold for 6 months with no real hope of being given a shot at playing. I'm sure that thought ran through Kevin Glenn's mind when he turned down the Bombers offer after they barely let him touch the field in the second half of 2016, despite having opportunities to finish out many games, it's clear O'Shea had absolutely no intention of playing him. 

If they do sign Franklin he will immediately jump in front of McGuire and probably push him to the PR, that may be reasonable but it could also piss him off.  I wouldn't mind signing Franklin as it gives them more security at the QB position for next year if Streveler decides to leave during the upcoming F.A., should be able to retain one of the two.  Given time with a good team I think Franklin could slowly return to the form that got him noticed in Edm, much as Vernon Adams has with the Als.  Patience and a good O-line is needed.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2019, 01:17:29 PM »

And it's Kevin Anderson. The End.
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