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Author Topic: Win is a win, but we were lucky tonight.  (Read 10415 times)
pjrocksmb
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« Reply #120 on: August 12, 2019, 06:41:19 PM »

2017 was a season that we seemed to be content with Medlock field goals, that didn't work out so well for us in the end...

personally I believe that we shouldn't work towards merely getting field goals, or, feel like we should constantly be driving for TDs as the only acceptable result... we need to be focus on moving the ball and getting first downs then take what the other team gives us, whether it be a field goal or a touchdown...

working solely for one or the other closes the mind to other options in my opinion...

Score more than the other club, I don't care how we do it.  Yes, win the time of possession and have solid consistent drives.
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RebusRankin
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« Reply #121 on: August 12, 2019, 07:07:17 PM »

We're winning but that doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement on offense. Hey, MOS is clearly looking to improve week by week (example the rotation of returners after the Nelson injury until we landed on Grant).
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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #122 on: August 12, 2019, 07:16:31 PM »

We're winning but that doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement on offense. Hey, MOS is clearly looking to improve week by week (example the rotation of returners after the Nelson injury until we landed on Grant).
we sure are and I only assume that will continue

always stuff to work on
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #123 on: August 13, 2019, 03:23:35 AM »

That's the same formula we used in the WF last year. It didn't work then. 50-50 good or was it because we played Calgary on a short week with their backup QB in and got 2 special teams TD's?

Who knows.  But it worked.  If we had gotten 2 more important drive stops on CGY (especially in the 4th) in the WF, and gotten the 30-40 yards we needed to make more FGs, we could have pulled out a win there.  Is our team good enough to get those 2 stops and 40 yard drives this year?  I think we are.  All else being equal.

People talk about our 2 ST TDs like it happened in isolation.  It's like they think that without those TDs that we'd play the game exactly the same and just lose by the 2 TD.  Without those TDs, Lapo opens it up, we get more creative, and Nichols takes off the kid gloves.  We were up by 2 possessions much of the game, and that dictated (in Lapo's mind) a conservative approach.

The flipside is people complain about Arbuckle's yards.  Well, he was down by 2 possessions sometimes and needed to put on the gas and throw caution to the wind (and INTs to Rose and Sayles).  Nothing in football is in isolation.

2017 was a season that we seemed to be content with Medlock field goals, that didn't work out so well for us in the end...

personally I believe that we shouldn't work towards merely getting field goals, or, feel like we should constantly be driving for TDs as the only acceptable result... we need to be focus on moving the ball and getting first downs then take what the other team gives us, whether it be a field goal or a touchdown...

Don't get me wrong: I'm not talking about our game in general.  I'm just talking about vs CGY.  I think the entire coaching staff prepared all year just to beat CGY.  There are special game plans just for CGY.  The only goal in '19 is to beat CGY.  If we can consistently beat CGY (preferably every single match-up) then we are at the GC and likely win, because no other team is as hard to beat as CGY.

You're right: 2017 was the year where every game's plan against every team was to get in FG range.  And we have moved beyond that.  Well beyond that.  I'm just talking about vs CGY.

And I'm not saying once in FG range vs CGY we quit and just give it to Harris.  We still want the TD!  It's just that I think the TD is gravy and not critical to winning.  From their 40 inwards, I don't see Nichols throwing up any passes into double/triple coverage, or putting balls where they can be picked off.  Once we get to the 40 we have to go into "our best plays" mode.  Or give it to Harris.  But INTs and sacks when in range (vs CGY) are not acceptable.

That's just my take on it.  Grind CGY out.  Limit their TOP.  Get the ball back (turnover if we can, but not required).  Stop Rogers.  Pressure their QB.  Get 30-40 yard drives so we can FG on most possessions.  Try to outsmart them for TDs where we can.  Take the open deep shots like we did twice, when CGY isn't expecting it, and our WRs whiffed on, but make those catches.

Is it the best plan in the world?  Maybe not.  Is it the best they've come up with so far?  I think so.  Again, given the stronger WPG this year, and the weaker CGY, the game plan should be enough to win the WF @IGF.
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gordo
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« Reply #124 on: August 13, 2019, 03:34:00 AM »

Every game, for every team is filled with ifs and what ifs.

The home game against Ottawa comes to mind. What if we don't recover Harris' fumble deep in our own end when the score was 0-0? What if we don't immediately follow that possession with a pick-6? What if instead of a punt single, Ottawa pinned us with a coffin corner punt?

Every if and what if comes with what actually happened. Last night:

What if Wolitarski catches that pass? What if Arbuckle doesn't hit the upright with a pass? What if Grant doesn't take two to the house? What if BLM played?

Well, Wolitarski didn't catch the pass, the upright made an outstanding defensive play, Grant made some history, and BLM wore a goofy headband on the sideline. That's how it goes.

People are also saying that we can't win a Grey Cup playing like that. Well, it's a good thing that we weren't playing the Grey Cup Game last night. There has also never been an undefeated CFL team, so even the best teams will lose, and even the best teams will sputter from time to time.

There is no single dominant team this season. I like our chances matching up against anyone else on any field on any day.

The biggest if that determined the outcome was the last pick of the game by Rose. If the Calgary receiver does what he?s paid to do and catches that ball that hits him in both hands then Calgary very likely kicks the game winning field goal. It wasn?t an amazing pick. It was an easy deflected ball that a receiver normally catches.

We were lucky.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #125 on: August 13, 2019, 03:41:49 AM »

The biggest if that determined the outcome was the last pick of the game by Rose. If the Calgary receiver does what he?s paid to do and catches that ball that hits him in both hands then Calgary very likely kicks the game winning field goal. It wasn?t an amazing pick. It was an easy deflected ball that a receiver normally catches.

We were lucky.

Likewise:

If the Winnipeg receiver (Woli) does what he's paid to do and catches that ball that is inches from both hands then Winnipeg very likely grinds out the clock and wins the game.  Calgary was lucky.

I've seen CGY receivers make the catch Woli should have made many a time over the years.  Not the best throw.  But catchable.

P.S. Pressure on Arbuckle made him make a poor read choice (NAT Sindani), and throw it high so it's tippable.  If we weren't getting pressure, Arbukle likely finds the WR he should be throwing to -- #4 -- and throws a better (non-high) ball.  That play was pressure and scheme (loose zone so we can get the tips) as much as luck.
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gordo
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« Reply #126 on: August 13, 2019, 03:50:52 AM »

Likewise:

If the Winnipeg receiver (Woli) does what he's paid to do and catches that ball that is inches from both hands then Winnipeg very likely grinds out the clock and wins the game.  Calgary was lucky.

I've seen CGY receivers make the catch Woli should have made many a time over the years.  Not the best throw.  But catchable.

P.S. Pressure on Arbuckle made him make a poor read choice (NAT Sindani), and throw it high so it's tippable.  If we weren't getting pressure, Arbukle likely finds the WR he should be throwing to -- #4 -- and throws a better (non-high) ball.  That play was pressure and scheme (loose zone so we can get the tips) as much as luck.


Pressure and scheme had nothing to do with the Calgary receiver not squeezing a very catchable ball delivered to both hands. And at that point in the game it was the difference between winning and losing. We were lucky.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #127 on: August 13, 2019, 06:42:23 AM »

Pressure and scheme had nothing to do with the Calgary receiver not squeezing a very catchable ball delivered to both hands. And at that point in the game it was the difference between winning and losing. We were lucky.

I'll say it again: S I N D A N I.  He's been botching about 50% of his targets this year.  He's like Woli and JFG, but bad.  And specifically he's been botching ladder-climb balls.  Our D made Arbuckle checkdown to Sindani.  Our D made Arbuckle throw high.  Our D had defenders behind the ball to get any tips.

Of course we were lucky that it all came together.  But in this instance, we made our own luck.  It wasn't "1 in a million" luck, it was more like "1 in 10" luck if you put all of the above pieces in place.

You go ask Hall or Osh if that play result was sheer luck and they're surprised it happened, or whether they work every week in forcing results like that and it played out exactly as they had it down on paper.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #128 on: August 13, 2019, 01:54:19 PM »

Lots of things went our way. Short week. Backup QB. RB hurt early. Goalpost knockdown. Tipped ball pick. 2 return TD's putting us in front where we play better. (Our end zone pick was a good DB play)

A couple of things went Calgary's way. Woli bobble and Huh. (Matthews non-catch was a good DB play)

I hope our 'formula' isn't to wait for Calgary to make mistakes or us to get some breaks, cuz that ain't going to get it done at least half the time.
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booch
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« Reply #129 on: August 13, 2019, 02:07:01 PM »

Pressure and scheme had nothing to do with the Calgary receiver not squeezing a very catchable ball delivered to both hands. And at that point in the game it was the difference between winning and losing. We were lucky.

That was a lousy throw...high and behind Sindani and he had to contort back to just get his hands on it...hardly an easy catchable ball...and it was thrown like that due to Arbuckle seeing the pressure coming off the edge..so threw it sooner than he wanted to...and missed his spot..
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GCn19
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« Reply #130 on: August 13, 2019, 02:12:57 PM »

That was a lousy throw...high and behind Sindani and he had to contort back to just get his hands on it...hardly an easy catchable ball...and it was thrown like that due to Arbuckle seeing the pressure coming off the edge..so threw it sooner than he wanted to...and missed his spot..

I agree. That would have been a tough catch. There was no luck involved. Our pressure and coverage made Arbuckle throw a poor ball.
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booch
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« Reply #131 on: August 13, 2019, 02:14:46 PM »

I agree. That would have been a tough catch. There was no luck involved. Our pressure and coverage made Arbuckle throw a poor ball.

several times that game he had to throw early..resulting in incompletions and some drops...some drops are not all on the receiver, especially when ball is on them before they expected it...or in a spot they weren't supposed to get it.
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GCn19
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« Reply #132 on: August 13, 2019, 02:21:02 PM »

several times that game he had to throw early..resulting in incompletions and some drops...some drops are not all on the receiver, especially when ball is on them before they expected it...or in a spot they weren't supposed to get it.


I'm not sure why people crap on the QB or receiver when they fail to connect under duress. Credit goes to the defence on that.
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rubanski
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« Reply #133 on: August 13, 2019, 02:59:43 PM »

Or... Calgary was lucky.

They were behind all game.
Their run defence had more holes than Winnipeg streets in springtime.
Their ST coverage was horrifically bad.
WPG uncharacteristically settled for 3 fgs in the red zone.
The Woli end zone catch could easily have been called a TD.
Refs gave them at least 3 VERY favourable 2nd down spots.
WPG took above average # of penalties, and penalty yards.
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John T.
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« Reply #134 on: August 13, 2019, 03:13:37 PM »

When people talk about the luck (or lack of luck) that both teams had last Thursday, I wish they'd stop talking about the Arbuckle pass that hit the goalpost.

From where I sat at the game (and others have agreed) there was no way in the world that pass was going to be caught in bounds. It was way, way, way overthrown, and the person with the best chance of catching it would have been sitting in about Row 3 of the endzone.

Goalpost or not, that wasn't a touchdown pass.
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