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Author Topic: BC Lions  (Read 2508 times)
TBURGESS
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« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2019, 03:39:18 PM »

Grymes would have gotten much more than Rose or Orange. Chungh getting $250K is a significant spend on a Canadian guard.

Lokombo is a very good Canadian LB capable of playing MLB or WIL. You can't discount that because he's been injured. Releasing Elimimian was a salary dump.

Lions also didn't re-sign Collins currently leading the CFL. Posey has had injury issues this season but another good receiver not brought back. This list goes on with Arceneaux.

Obviously those are top players but acquiring them was at the cost of retaining other very good players.

Hervey wanting to put his stamp on the roster is irrelevant to the fact that if you spend that much money on 3 or 4 players at the top it's at the cost of other talent. They lose the balancing act of how the SMS is spent across their roster.

Yes Calgary lost some good players. The biggest being Singleton to the NFL but that was not within their control. As I've said repeatedly the Stamps have always had depth players ready to step in without missing a beat per se.

Calgary is sitting in 1st while the Lions are in 5th. Which team spent their money more wisely based on what their rosters needed and were capable of supporting?

Grymes and Chungh are good examples of the Lions spending more for guys they consider better players. They aren't good examples of the Lions not having  money to spend on players.

Lokombo's good, not great. His passport is useful.

Sol hardly played last year. He's played one(?) game so far this year. He's an example of an older, oft injured player. I suspect he's being paid quite a lot less this year than he was last year and I expect he wouldn't take that pay cut to stay in BC.

I'll give you Collins, although he only got 600 yards last year. The Lions could have kept him if they didn't sign Carter.

Posey got under 400 yards last year and is at 100 yards this year. Not a guy I'd spend big bucks on.

Manny's another old, oft-injured, expensive player who hasn't done anything of note yet this year.

Of course Calgary spent their money more wisely and they were a better team to begin with and they aren't going through a massive rebuild and they don't have a rookie HC and they aren't changing their offensive and defensive philosophy's and they don't have a GM wanting to put his stamp on the team.

None of this has to do with the original premise that it's financial suicide to pay big for a QB.
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Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.
Blue In BC
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« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2019, 03:45:28 PM »

We have historical precedents of teams spending too much on QB's and the rosters suffering afterwards.

Reilly when originally signed in Edmonton the team failed miserably. Winnipeg with Glenn and Willy. Even R. Ray in his later career didn't continue to do well in Edmonton and Toronto for the most part.

It's an enormous risk. Many of us made these comments before TC started. Signing Reilly was at the significant cost of other talent.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2019, 03:54:08 PM »

We have historical precedents of teams spending too much on QB's and the rosters suffering afterwards.

Reilly when originally signed in Edmonton the team failed miserably. Winnipeg with Glenn and Willy. Even R. Ray in his later career didn't continue to do well in Edmonton and Toronto for the most part.

It's an enormous risk. Many of us made these comments before TC started. Signing Reilly was at the significant cost of other talent.
I know you believe your premise, but now you're starting to flail. Glenn and Willy? Never were hugely overpaid QB's.

Reilly when he signed in Edmonton was a young QB learning the game and he wasn't hugely expensive way back then anyway. The team around him was bad before he got there and it didn't get better until Reilly led them out of the weeds.

Ricky Ray might be your best example. He still managed to win the Argos the Grey Cup.

It's a risk vs reward situation. Sometimes the big risk pays off. Sometimes it doesn't.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2019, 04:33:11 PM »

I know you believe your premise, but now you're starting to flail. Glenn and Willy? Never were hugely overpaid QB's.

Reilly when he signed in Edmonton was a young QB learning the game and he wasn't hugely expensive way back then anyway. The team around him was bad before he got there and it didn't get better until Reilly led them out of the weeds.

Ricky Ray might be your best example. He still managed to win the Argos the Grey Cup.

It's a risk vs reward situation. Sometimes the big risk pays off. Sometimes it doesn't.

At the time and when SMS levels were lower they were paid close to top money for QB's. So it's all a matter of timing as it relates to SMS and spread across a teams roster.

Many have argued at the time that we paid Nichols too much and what that cost us across the roster. It's certainly catch 22 since QB's don't grow on trees.

Going into 2020 Nichols gets another bump and if we are able to re-sign Streveler that will cost more. How much more we won't know until 2020. It's not a matter that either of those situations would be wrong but it will be at the expense of someone on the roster.

GM's have started to go nuts with some of the money spent in free agency. Didn't Derel Walker get $270K. Someone suggested MBT got $330K and he only had 6 games starting prior to 2019.

QB is the tip of the iceberg and $750K is not sustainable.


« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 04:44:45 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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TBURGESS
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« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2019, 05:30:34 PM »

I think Nichols is paid too much, but that's based on his level of play more than the SMS hit. I also understand that he's worth his money on the open market because the level of the QB competition in the CFL right now is at an all time low.

I doubt we keep both Streveler and Nichols next year because Streveler will be worth more on the open market than the number that Walters has in his spreadsheet for a backup QB. If we did pay both of them, it would be a similar total to Reilly + O'Brien because our backup QB would be way more expensive.

GM's have always gone nuts in FA and QB's are at the top of the list for obvious reasons. A bunch of overpaid players means a bunch of players have to be near the minimum to make the SMS work.

The new reality is that teams are built for a single season because so many players sign short term contracts which means a ton of movement every year. They don't have to be sustainable for more than a year at a time.
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Doublezero
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« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2019, 06:04:56 PM »

I doubt we keep both Streveler and Nichols next year because Streveler will be worth more on the open market than the number that Walters has in his spreadsheet for a backup QB.
Too bad Walters & Co didn't trouble themselves to find out if Streveler is better than Nichols by giving him some decent playing time. Because if we can only afford one of them I'd rather have the better one. They really owe it to everyone to find out before letting one of them go which one is the better QB for the future.
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2019, 06:24:17 PM »

Too bad Walters & Co didn't trouble themselves to find out if Streveler is better than Nichols by giving him some decent playing time. Because if we can only afford one of them I'd rather have the better one. They really owe it to everyone to find out before letting one of them go which one is the better QB for the future.

Yeah sure, that's what the season is for, right? Just throw out any QB and give them tons of playing time and then sort them out in November when we're out of the playoff picture.
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107th Grey Cup champs and WE ARE LIT
bowlerdude
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« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2019, 06:53:48 PM »

Too bad Walters & Co didn't trouble themselves to find out if Streveler is better than Nichols by giving him some decent playing time. Because if we can only afford one of them I'd rather have the better one. They really owe it to everyone to find out before letting one of them go which one is the better QB for the future.

I believe Streveler will be a starting QB in this league. I also think he has the upside to be better than Nichols - whether or not he does get there I'm not as sure of - and yeah, I'm a little bit worried that we're going to end up letting go of a really good young QB in favour of keeping Nichols around.

But they don't really have a choice. You don't play Streveler in the middle of the season when games are on the line unless Nichols is consistently struggling. They already play him more than anyone else plays their backup (feels like I've said that a hundred times this year). At some point they'll face a decision... but that decision coming up is not even remotely close to the top of the list of factors you have to consider when you pick a starting QB, especially for a contending team
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BigBomberFan
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« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2019, 12:51:14 AM »

BC in the last few years, for me, has seemed like a team that has progressively got older without really adding enough new pieces to succeed. Or at least guys like Jennings had seriously regressed, and Lulay was finally worn out enough to realize that he should have retired a couple of seasons before. Burnham would be the exception, but Elimimian has some hard mileage on him, and it was probably wise to go with someone else, but perhaps too late to have developed someone that could replace him.

I don't actually know the average age of BC players over the last 5 years or so, but they seem to be up there in age, and without knowing the actual stats, I'd say that either them or Montreal has the oldest average player age. Stats Junkie may know more about this.

Even on a leadership level, I get the impression that since the Benevides thing didn't work out, that they've really been struggling to find someone to replace Buono, and that Buono having to be HC again was just a stopgap in the meantime. If they don't find better leadership, they could be in some deep trouble for a while.
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