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Author Topic: Richie Hall  (Read 1500 times)
Blue In BC
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« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2019, 05:20:12 PM »

I don't have any complaints about our LB's. I just don't see this years guys as all stars. Last week we had Briggs and Wilson starting and the defence was still great, so it's more about the guys in front of our LB's this year than the LB's themselves.

I can't disagree with those thoughts at the moment. JSK had a slow start in 2018. It might be that Wilson is gaining experience etc etc. What his potential is and how soon he progresses is all a TBD.

Generally I expect a MLB to be making tackles all over the field and be one of the leaders with DT's. That isn't happening yet but teams aren't running on us either which takes away chances for DT's at the LOS or even in the back field.

So no complaints about the LB's now and we'll see how the season progresses. Teams will start to try and run eventually. Not just against us but as part of game plans. Offense start more slowly at the beginning of the season.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 05:29:28 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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Blue In BC
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« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2019, 05:29:08 PM »

Regarding Hall:

The defense only got better when we Bighill who might be the best or 2nd best MLB in the league. Walters and O'Shea were responsible for that.

So if your defensive strategy only works if you have a Bighill or Singleton as your MLB, then there is something wrong with the strategy.

We have Bighill and I still have issues conceptually with the strategy. If it did also change in 2018 to some degree was that more on O'Shea saying he'd get involved because he was also fed up? Or was that more on the addition of Bighill?

Hard to say.It will be an on going discussion as the season progresses. Can we repeat being in top 2 for least points allowed? Can we lead in turnover ratio and points scored due to turnovers? Possibly.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 05:32:31 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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kkc60
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« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2019, 05:53:09 PM »

Regarding Hall:

The defense only got better when we Bighill who might be the best or 2nd best MLB in the league. Walters and O'Shea were responsible for that.

So if your defensive strategy only works if you have a Bighill or Singleton as your MLB, then there is something wrong with the strategy.

We have Bighill and I still have issues conceptually with the strategy. If it did also change in 2018 to some degree was that more on O'Shea saying he'd get involved because he was also fed up? Or was that more on the addition of Bighill?

Hard to say.It will be an on going discussion as the season progresses. Can we repeat being in top 2 for least points allowed? Can we lead in turnover ratio and points scored due to turnovers? Possibly.
Our D was good without Biggie last week. But I don't think the RBs are a good team offensively. I agree that it's an ongoing discussion. If our D sucked 3 games in patience would be preached. I think it should be preached now because its only been 3 games. Theres no trophy for having the best team for the first 3 games
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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2019, 06:14:21 PM »

Our D was good without Biggie last week. But I don't think the RBs are a good team offensively. I agree that it's an ongoing discussion. If our D sucked 3 games in patience would be preached. I think it should be preached now because its only been 3 games. Theres no trophy for having the best team for the first 3 games

More than 3 games.  Our success goes back to last year on D.
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GCn18
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« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2019, 06:39:32 PM »

Our defence wasn't good since week 5 of last year. We gave up 41 points to Ottawa in week 9. Sure we had good games and bad games but in 2 of our 3 games this year we have given up high yardage and somehow only surrendered one TD. I just am not convinced that can stick. Could I be wrong? Sure. Could I be right? Sure. Only time will tell

There is not an offence or defence in any football league that does not have a bad game or two now and again. That's just reality and has nothing to do with sustainability. However, since game 5 of last year our defence became dominant most of the time and that has continued this year. It is simply unrealistic to think that any area of your team will play perfect football for 18 games straight..
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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2019, 07:32:43 PM »

There is not an offence or defence in any football league that does not have a bad game or two now and again. That's just reality and has nothing to do with sustainability. However, since game 5 of last year our defence became dominant most of the time and that has continued this year. It is simply unrealistic to think that any area of your team will play perfect football for 18 games straight..

Agree on every level.  Great post.

Perfection is the goal but never can br achieved.  The standard to which Hall and this defense is being held to is ridiculous at times.  We have proven everything but deep playoff success.  It doesn't get much better than what we got.  While some might not like Hall or his style and play calling its proven effective.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2019, 07:33:56 PM »

Our D was good without Biggie last week. But I don't think the RBs are a good team offensively. I agree that it's an ongoing discussion. If our D sucked 3 games in patience would be preached. I think it should be preached now because its only been 3 games. Theres no trophy for having the best team for the first 3 games

Yes it was and they are partially responsible for pushing Ottawa off the field as often and as quickly resulting in our TOP if 39 minutes. Our offense is also partially responsible for staying on the field as well. Where to draw the line exactly is a chicken or egg kind of question.

Both our offense and defense were responsible for how it played out. Have to give credit to both units.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2019, 07:43:07 PM »

Agree on every level.  Great post.

Perfection is the goal but never can br achieved.  The standard to which Hall and this defense is being held to is ridiculous at times.  We have proven everything but deep playoff success.  It doesn't get much better than what we got.  While some might not like Hall or his style and play calling its proven effective.

You can't see the forest for the trees. Bend but don't break defenses have existed for decades in the CFL. In the long run they have not proven to be the most effective strategy.

Improvements in the results come from improvement in overall talent, not strategy or in game adjustments.

We've had and have a defense that uses 11 import starters. Up until 2019 we had a DE, LB and DB as DI's on defense.

We added all star players in Bighill in 2018 and now Jefferson in 2019. Other very good free agents found with some rookies developed in the secondary. O'Shea said he took more of an interest in the defense middle of 2018.

You'd hope with all those imports there would be good results.

It's not all magic from Hall.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 07:54:57 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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kkc60
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« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2019, 07:46:07 PM »

More than 3 games.  Our success goes back to last year on D.
Last years team is a different team. Who cares what we did last year? Did we win a GC? No. We have a new DE, a new Will, 2 new corners, a new safety and a new DT. Who cares about last year? There are 6 new starters on the defense this year. If we brought back or retained all our D starters from last year then maybe it would be a fair argument. But half our defense is new full-time starters on this team. Wilson, Hecht and Fenner were role players but not starters
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 07:48:25 PM by kkc60 » Logged
kkc60
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« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2019, 07:50:02 PM »

There is not an offence or defence in any football league that does not have a bad game or two now and again. That's just reality and has nothing to do with sustainability. However, since game 5 of last year our defence became dominant most of the time and that has continued this year. It is simply unrealistic to think that any area of your team will play perfect football for 18 games straight..
This is a new year. I'm not saying our defence isn't good. I'm saying it's too early to say whether or not it is. Ditto the offence. Last years team was last years team. Whether we are better or worse than last year is yet to be determined, but it is promising
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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2019, 07:50:53 PM »

You can't see the forest for the trees. Bend but don't break defenses have existed for decades in the CFL. In the long run they have not proven to be the most effective strategy.

Improvements in the results come from improvement in overall talent, not strategy or in game adjustments.

Proven to give up 1td 3 games. Proved worked well last year.  We are simply not bend and don't break.  That over simplifing it. 
Last years team is a different team. Who cares what we did last year? Did we win a GC? No. We have a new DE, a new Will, 2 new corners, a new safety and a new DT. Who cares about last year? There are 6 new starters on the defense this year. If we brought back or retained all our D starters from last year then maybe it would be a fair argument. But half our defense is new full-time starters on this team. Wilson, Hecht and Fenner were role players but not starters

I'm not obsessed about the GC like some.  I see this defense building something special.  Seem it building slowly.  New faces, same core.  The consistency of our core and coaches is our strength.  
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 07:52:33 PM by pjrocksmb » Logged

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Blue In BC
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« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2019, 07:57:55 PM »

Proven to give up 1td 3 games. Proved worked well last year.  We are simply not bend and don't break.  That over simplifing it. 
I'm not obsessed about the GC like some.  I see this defense building something special.  Seem it building slowly.  New faces, same core.  The consistency of our core and coaches is our strength.  

Combined those 3 teams have won 5 of 10 games. Two of those teams have no running game. Ottawa has a QB with about 4 CFL starts.

So sure the result were good so far and that may continue. It's a little early to be beating our chests.

If it doesn't result in a Grey Cup appearance who will care? Will you still be preaching patience if that's the result?
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kkc60
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« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2019, 08:01:42 PM »

Proven to give up 1td 3 games. Proved worked well last year.  We are simply not bend and don't break.  That over simplifing it. 
I'm not obsessed about the GC like some.  I see this defense building something special.  Seem it building slowly.  New faces, same core.  The consistency of our core and coaches is our strength.  
I'd argue it's not the same core. Randle was our leader in the secondary, Loffler was an all-star safety and JSK was pretty good. Now to be fair there are upgrades on D and I'm not saying moving on from Randle and Loffler were bad moves.

Well I would prefer we win the GC. And again, it's not the same D. It just isn't. What happened last year is water under the bridge.
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kkc60
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« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2019, 08:04:44 PM »

Combined those 3 teams have won 5 of 10 games. Two of those teams have no running game. Ottawa has a QB with about 4 CFL starts.

So sure the result were good so far and that may continue. It's a little early to be beating our chests.

If it doesn't result in a Grey Cup appearance who will care? Will you still be preaching patience if that's the result?
Exactly. We will know how good our D is when we know. 3 games is too soon for anything.

I agree with the GC part. Our D can allow 3 points per game, if our offense only scores 2 it doesn't matter (not saying that will happen). I'll never forget when I was in bantam and we lost 3-0 and our D coach made us run wind sprints because we allowed too many points to win. That's unreasonable but the point stands. Who cares how good anything is if it doesn't take us to the GC
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2019, 08:54:08 PM »

Exactly. We will know how good our D is when we know. 3 games is too soon for anything.

I agree with the GC part. Our D can allow 3 points per game, if our offense only scores 2 it doesn't matter (not saying that will happen). I'll never forget when I was in bantam and we lost 3-0 and our D coach made us run wind sprints because we allowed too many points to win. That's unreasonable but the point stands. Who cares how good anything is if it doesn't take us to the GC

I think it was the 1960 season and the WDF was best 2 out of 3 games. The Bombers and Esks each won one of the 1st two games.

IIRC correctly game 3 was in snowy conditions and the Bombers lost game 3 and a chance to go to the Grey Cup by a score of 3 - 2 or possibly 3 - 1. In either case, yes you can have an opponent move the ball very little and / or score very little. You can still lose. Just as you can lose by a score of 60 - 59.

Details are a bit fuzzy on game 3 58 years ago but I think my comment is fairly accurate.

EDIT: I looked up the WDF's in 1960. We lost game 3 by 2 points . Combined scores for 3 games Edmonton 30 - Winnipeg 29. Those were the days of defensive battles. Loved the best 2 out of 3 games in the west. Almost laughable to think Edmonton won the last 2 games while scoring a total of 14 points. Since the Bombers lost I didn't laugh but OTOH I lived in Ottawa at the time and they won the Grey Cup. So 2nd favorite team at the time won.


Western Finals Winnipeg Blue Bombers vs Edmonton Eskimos
Game    Date    Away    Home
1    November 12    Winnipeg Blue Bombers 22    Edmonton Eskimos 16
2    November 14    Edmonton Eskimos 10    Winnipeg Blue Bombers 5
3    November 19    Edmonton Eskimos 4    Winnipeg Blue Bombers 2
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 09:11:04 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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