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Author Topic: Greenies vs tigers GDT  (Read 2229 times)
The Zipp
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Who gives a flying Buck...


« on: June 13, 2019, 10:54:48 PM »

Wow.  First series Collaros takes a cheap shot to the head and is done....the question is - for just the game or is this the career for him


Masoli looking good on a pass to Banks. 
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The Zipp
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Who gives a flying Buck...


« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2019, 11:04:49 PM »

TSN crew blabbing about nothing and think that banks caught the ball as the ref waves it off...

I swear they aren't even watching the game
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The Zipp
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Who gives a flying Buck...


« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2019, 11:15:02 PM »

Now they are talking about "conceding the single" on a missed convert...clearly they need to broadcast more preseason games
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Jesse
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2019, 11:32:05 PM »

The panel is just giving it to Simoni Lawerence on the half time show.
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Ridermania
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2019, 11:36:53 PM »

I think the panel is blasting Lawrence so much, as he is a repeat cheap shot player.
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Horseman
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2019, 11:47:14 PM »

Sask D looking good so far. Ham is having trouble stopping Powell.
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2019, 11:48:43 PM »

Wow.  First series Collaros takes a cheap shot to the head and is done....the question is - for just the game or is this the career for him


Masoli looking good on a pass to Banks. 
Lawrence the meat head returns.

Hey Zipp we have been saying that about Zacky boy for I think for three straight years.
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Horseman
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2019, 11:52:16 PM »

Dickenson is in a gambling mood tonight.
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Horseman
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2019, 11:55:34 PM »

Ham O playing like the Bomber O...need 10, throw for 6 and get tackled immediately.
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bunker
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2019, 11:58:18 PM »

Sask defence looking good so far.
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bunker
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2019, 12:01:17 AM »

Punt coverage not so much.
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2019, 12:02:16 AM »

Suspect Sask ST with ST coach as HC. YIKES.
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Horseman
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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2019, 12:03:53 AM »

Ham has to make Fajardo beat them, take Powell out of game.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 12:11:02 AM by Horseman » Logged
BlueInCgy
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2019, 12:14:02 AM »

Masoli not looking great, but it?s game 1.

Powell is pretty much the entire RR offence.

Third string QB now in for Sask.
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2019, 12:14:32 AM »

hoopla hoop hits it.
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Horseman
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« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2019, 12:14:38 AM »

Sask  now down to their 3rd stringer at QB.
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2019, 12:15:35 AM »

Masoli not looking great, but it?s game 1.

Powell is pretty much the entire RR offence.

Third string QB now in for Sask.
it crossed my mind it?s gotta be CC protocol after that last hit.
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Horseman
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« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2019, 12:17:01 AM »

Sask maybe on the phone to Kevin Glenn after this game. Could be the shortest retirement ever!
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Horseman
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« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2019, 12:21:07 AM »

Send the blitz on this QB Harker.
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3rdand1.5
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« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2019, 12:39:56 AM »

Erlington better learn to not attempt a hurdle every play or he's gonna end up injured.
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the paw
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« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2019, 12:57:55 AM »

Harker looked real good for a rookie, but they are hooped if they have to ride him for many games.

Riders lack of depth on o-line is going to be exposed with this injury to Bladek.

Thomas Erlington looks like the real deal, I hope he?s okay.

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bunker
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« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2019, 01:00:13 AM »

I hope Lawrence gets a suspension. Will never happen but I would give him 6 games and send a message.
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Jesse
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« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2019, 01:00:40 AM »

Well, not the most exciting game. Masoli seems to have come back to earth (or just can't rack up stats against Western teams like he can against the East). Riders QB and OL situation are even worse off than they were 3 hours ago.

But, the West is 0-1. We're coming for you, West Final.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2019, 01:03:39 AM »

I don't mind the new rule increasing the blatant hit on a QB to 25. The question is what does it take for a disqualification now?  This wasn't an incidental hit to the head.

Lawrence probably gets a big fine though.

Don't like to see any player with a concussion history take that kind of unnecessary hit to the head.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2019, 01:04:22 AM »

Ugly win by the Tabbies, but there are no points for style.

Erlington impressed.

Powell was all of the Sask offence.  Good pickup in that regard, but without an Oline he will be limited.
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Tehedra
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« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2019, 01:05:53 AM »

I hope Lawrence gets a suspension. Will never happen but I would give him 6 games and send a message.

As we found with Winston Rose the CBA doesn't allow a six game suspension. He will most likely receive the max penalty which appears to be a 1/2 game fine.  

Personally if those hits happen by a repeat offender I'd just say they can't play in the league. That would send a much better message and probably be more allowable according to the CBA since now it's just a contract termination.
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bunker
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« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2019, 01:20:51 AM »

As we found with Winston Rose the CBA doesn't allow a six game suspension. He will most likely receive the max penalty which appears to be a 1/2 game fine.  

Personally if those hits happen by a repeat offender I'd just say they can't play in the league. That would send a much better message and probably be more allowable according to the CBA since now it's just a contract termination.
I think that was Jonathan Rose.
The CBA says the maximum fine is 1/2 a game cheque.
I?m not aware it does not allow a player to be suspended, although any suspension might be appealed by the player and the CFLPA. Kyries Hebert got two games last year as a repeat offender.
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RebusRankin
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« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2019, 01:21:12 AM »

Not a great game but the Riders lost so its all good.
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« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2019, 01:41:41 AM »

Lawrence pick rubs it in hard.
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« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2019, 01:46:35 AM »

I don't mind the new rule increasing the blatant hit on a QB to 25. The question is what does it take for a disqualification now?  This wasn't an incidental hit to the head.

Lawrence probably gets a big fine though.

Don't like to see any player with a concussion history take that kind of unnecessary hit to the head.


To be disqualified/kicked out from a game you need two receive two grade two (25 yard penalties) unnecessary roughness penalties.
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Tiger
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« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2019, 03:11:51 AM »

How did that happen?  Is Tabbie O that bad or Rider D that good?  It should not have been this close and Tabies would have lost but for good and lucky ST.  You can?t count on ST to score points. It is stills early in the season.
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« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2019, 03:21:37 AM »

How did that happen?  Is Tabbie O that bad or Rider D that good?  It should not have been this close and Tabies would have lost but for good and lucky ST.  You can?t count on ST to score points. It is stills early in the season.


Its the CFL 

All kinds of weird **** may happen.
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The Zipp
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Who gives a flying Buck...


« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2019, 03:26:20 AM »

Usually takes a few games for offences to be consistent...riders have a solid defence too - they may just be tired after 3 games though. 
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Tehedra
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« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2019, 03:43:29 AM »

I think that was Jonathan Rose.
The CBA says the maximum fine is 1/2 a game cheque.
I?m not aware it does not allow a player to be suspended, although any suspension might be appealed by the player and the CFLPA. Kyries Hebert got two games last year as a repeat offender.

Thanks you are right I was thinking Rose and for some reason wrote Winston lol
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Pigskin
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« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2019, 04:06:12 AM »

Lawrence will get one game. 
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2019, 05:36:50 AM »

Riders fans must be up in arms on their forum... gonna check it out right after.

Zach lasts 1 minute.  Are we surprised?  No one has said yet how stupid a decision that run was.  You're the most-concussed QB in the history of the CFL with jello for brains and you take a run up the gut with 3 LB's bearing down on you?  I watched it a few times and I don't think that was called, I think that was Collaros' decision because of coverage.  Dumb decision, Collaros.  Sit back in the darn pocket and just stay there.  What on earth are you trying to prove?  (Or maybe he wants a year's paycheque without having to do any work for it, like '18?)

He takes off and all of Canada is cringing that he's going to get hurt, and sure enough he gets hurt.  Stupid move.  Since he never comes back from concussions quickly (was it 8 weeks last year and still didn't come back?), SSK is screwed, blued and tattooed.

Of course Simoni is 100% to blame and that was a mega-dirty hit.  Just like Willis, he knew 100% he wanted to take Zach out of the game, and he did, and he's pleased as punch he did.  But to do it on a slide, with pretty blatant timing, that's just low.  Just because the league won't protect the refs properly anymore, doesn't mean Simoni gets away with it.  He's getting the book thrown at him.  At least 1 game suspension.

I am shocked he wasn't ejected.  I'm not sure, but I hope the new rules don't preclude an ejection after the 1st offence in the game.  They should always have the option to eject.

I'm no Rider fan, but I really feel for Zach and the Rider fans.  Their fault for hiring Mr. Concussion again, but to lose him in such a way is just horrible.

The worst part is we didn't get to see what Zach had in the tank.  I wanted to see if Zach could still dazzle and get it done.  He showed some moments last year, but never really got into a rhythm.  I think he's hopeless, but I wanted him to get his chance.

HAM was playing like garbage tonight.  Was it all J.Jones last year?  Cause Steinhauer is looking pathetic.  Did their OC change?  Pathetic.  Where are all the bootlegs and scrambles and running throws that made Masoli great last year?  Where's all the max-pro and impenetrable OL/FB?  Where's Banks running across the whole field for 25yd catches at the rail every 60 seconds?  This didn't look at all like '18 HAM, and that's a shock because, like WPG, they had the most consistency in the off-season.

Is Masoli hurt?  What's he doing sitting in the pocket all day?  And he seemed bummed out the whole time.  Just dead expressions on his face.

Funny watching Breaux get burned all night long by nobody QBs.

Is this just week 1 jitters for everyone?  Guess we'll see what the other teams do.  If this is our competition this year, and WPG merely maintains '18 form, we are going to really clean up.

And the refs missed a ton of procedures and offsides and all sorts of simple stuff.  And that Banks catch was a catch, the field guy called it a catch, and the EITS said no.  I don't like it, I think field judge should call it and other team needs to challenge.  Or call it a catch and have EITS send it to command review.  I saw no clear evidence Banks didn't cradle that ball on the turf, and by normal review rules, that is not enough to overturn.  Now we get EITS just acting on whims without the normal procedure or threshold for overturning?  Meh.

If I'm a team with a good backup QB, I'd be tying him down around now (like us with Strev).  SSK is going to be desperate.  They should hire Bennett.  Or Glenn is coming back... or maybe get Jennings from OTT?

Sorry, long post, kind of disappointed in how the season started... hope the other 3 games are far better.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2019, 05:40:26 AM »

Oh ya, and Zach goes down and the SSK O becomes a carbon copy of the Bridge O in '18?  Run, run, run, screen, run, run.  Hilarious.  New HC doesn't come up with new O schemes?

Most pathetic of all is SSK was the better team out there.  They could have easily won.  If Zach had been in the whole game and been half as good as Nichols SSK would have won.  HAM was really not playing to form.  If this is the HAM we face in the GC, we're going to win it 50-0.

More bad reffing: the DPI on Breaux in 1Q was bogus, and the non-DPI on a Banks non-catch later on was DPI with a blatant jersey tug, the one Banks is chirping at the ref for.  Someone should have challenged those: instead the only challenge of the game was by Dickerson on what he obviously was never going to win.  He'll need some more tutoring from brother Dave.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 05:47:05 AM by TecnoGenius » Logged
TBURGESS
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« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2019, 01:34:39 PM »

I'm old enough to remember 4 preseason games. This one looked like game 3's.

Horrible for the Riders to lose not 1, but 2 QB's. At least the 3rd string looked OK. Can't blame him for the 3rd down pick, he had to throw that ball or he's giving them the ball where he's tackled. Can't blame him for the hail Mary pick either. Putting the ball into traffic in the endzone is the way that play works. This game shows why the CFL shouldn't be going to only 2 QB's on the roster.

I think everyone knew that Collaros would be out with a concussion sometime this year. Sad to see it on the 3rd play of their first game, especially on a cheap shot like that. Should be a suspension, but probably won't be.

Masoli was off. Looks like he didn't get many reps in the 2 preseason games. I'm sure he'll scrape the rust off an start hitting his targets. Maybe he didn't run because he knew that the Riders would take his head off, legally or not, if they got a chance. What's with this new CFL thing of only playing staring QB's for less than a half in the preseason?

Now that I've seen the Riders play a real game, I have to say their defence still looks good and their offence still looks bad. I can't imagine that their defence is going to score as many points as last year which equals less wins.

I hope the rest of the games this weekend are better than this one was, but I'm expecting more game 3's.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2019, 01:40:25 PM »

If the league has more to say about Simoni after last night it should happen TODAY. After the Rose decision I'm not expecting anything other than a fine of undisclosed amount was levied.

Pitiful.
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Ridermania
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« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2019, 01:49:05 PM »

I don't think the league has the balls to give Lawrence any suspension.

It will only be a one game fine.
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BigBlueCrew
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« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2019, 01:54:39 PM »

Riders fans must be up in arms on their forum... gonna check it out right after.

Zach lasts 1 minute.  Are we surprised?  No one has said yet how stupid a decision that run was.  You're the most-concussed QB in the history of the CFL with jello for brains and you take a run up the gut with 3 LB's bearing down on you?  I watched it a few times and I don't think that was called, I think that was Collaros' decision because of coverage.  Dumb decision, Collaros.  Sit back in the darn pocket and just stay there.  What on earth are you trying to prove?  (Or maybe he wants a year's paycheque without having to do any work for it, like '18?)

He takes off and all of Canada is cringing that he's going to get hurt, and sure enough he gets hurt.  Stupid move.  Since he never comes back from concussions quickly (was it 8 weeks last year and still didn't come back?), SSK is screwed, blued and tattooed.

Of course Simoni is 100% to blame and that was a mega-dirty hit.  Just like Willis, he knew 100% he wanted to take Zach out of the game, and he did, and he's pleased as punch he did.  But to do it on a slide, with pretty blatant timing, that's just low.  Just because the league won't protect the refs properly anymore, doesn't mean Simoni gets away with it.  He's getting the book thrown at him.  At least 1 game suspension.

I am shocked he wasn't ejected.  I'm not sure, but I hope the new rules don't preclude an ejection after the 1st offence in the game.  They should always have the option to eject.

I'm no Rider fan, but I really feel for Zach and the Rider fans.  Their fault for hiring Mr. Concussion again, but to lose him in such a way is just horrible.

The worst part is we didn't get to see what Zach had in the tank.  I wanted to see if Zach could still dazzle and get it done.  He showed some moments last year, but never really got into a rhythm.  I think he's hopeless, but I wanted him to get his chance.

HAM was playing like garbage tonight.  Was it all J.Jones last year?  Cause Steinhauer is looking pathetic.  Did their OC change?  Pathetic.  Where are all the bootlegs and scrambles and running throws that made Masoli great last year?  Where's all the max-pro and impenetrable OL/FB?  Where's Banks running across the whole field for 25yd catches at the rail every 60 seconds?  This didn't look at all like '18 HAM, and that's a shock because, like WPG, they had the most consistency in the off-season.

Is Masoli hurt?  What's he doing sitting in the pocket all day?  And he seemed bummed out the whole time.  Just dead expressions on his face.

Funny watching Breaux get burned all night long by nobody QBs.

Is this just week 1 jitters for everyone?  Guess we'll see what the other teams do.  If this is our competition this year, and WPG merely maintains '18 form, we are going to really clean up.

And the refs missed a ton of procedures and offsides and all sorts of simple stuff.  And that Banks catch was a catch, the field guy called it a catch, and the EITS said no.  I don't like it, I think field judge should call it and other team needs to challenge.  Or call it a catch and have EITS send it to command review.  I saw no clear evidence Banks didn't cradle that ball on the turf, and by normal review rules, that is not enough to overturn.  Now we get EITS just acting on whims without the normal procedure or threshold for overturning?  Meh.

If I'm a team with a good backup QB, I'd be tying him down around now (like us with Strev).  SSK is going to be desperate.  They should hire Bennett.  Or Glenn is coming back... or maybe get Jennings from OTT?

Sorry, long post, kind of disappointed in how the season started... hope the other 3 games are far better.


No no, a stupid decision would be to run and lower your head instead of slide. He actually slid and should never have been hit. A dirty SOB is still going to find a way to make a dirty hit
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2019, 01:57:36 PM »

If the league has more to say about Simoni after last night it should happen TODAY. After the Rose decision I'm not expecting anything other than a fine of undisclosed amount was levied.

Pitiful.

Agreed, it needs to happen before the kickoff of the next game.  If it doesn't happen, and it won't, then all the pretense of the rule changes for player protection are pretty much void, as they simply don't have a lot of teeth.  

I too agree that in blatant cheap shots like this one, the offending player should miss at least as many games as the injured player, or rather, that they are suspended indefinitely until such a time as the injured player returns, and at that point, any additional game penalties are then assessed.  If the injured player never returns, the offending player never returns.


To the point of Collaros making a stupid decision to run, that's simply not accurate.  He did everything he was supposed to do in that situation, and even gave himself up old school (feet first, even though he could have gone head first with the new rule changes and he is provided the same "protection").  He was not in the wrong, as there's no reasonable way he could have expected an outcome like the one he received.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2019, 02:01:03 PM »

So, the East is undefeated against the W so far this year... enjoy it for the moment East...

Lawrence sure could have avoided that hit.  No question.  e followed through with disastrous consequences.  He should have at least 2 game suspension, 6 would be more appropriate.  Its not like he is an angel who made one bad mistake...

I didn't see the game, and my PVR was changed since last season, so no preset for taping, did Fajardo get concussed?  Is that why Harker was in?  

Which one, or both, get a phone call today?  Bennett or Glenn?
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2019, 02:08:21 PM »

Good QBs are essential to the CFL and that hit on Collaros while in a slide deserves a one game minimum suspension.   The hit was targeted and Lawrence can say whatever and he's sorry but the replay clearly shows intent to injure a QB in a vulnerable position.   Our officiating once again appears to be bush League at best!
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kkc60
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« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2019, 02:25:27 PM »

Riders fans must be up in arms on their forum... gonna check it out right after.

Zach lasts 1 minute.  Are we surprised?  No one has said yet how stupid a decision that run was.  You're the most-concussed QB in the history of the CFL with jello for brains and you take a run up the gut with 3 LB's bearing down on you?  I watched it a few times and I don't think that was called, I think that was Collaros' decision because of coverage.  Dumb decision, Collaros.  Sit back in the darn pocket and just stay there.  What on earth are you trying to prove?  (Or maybe he wants a year's paycheque without having to do any work for it, like '18?)

He takes off and all of Canada is cringing that he's going to get hurt, and sure enough he gets hurt.  Stupid move.  Since he never comes back from concussions quickly (was it 8 weeks last year and still didn't come back?), SSK is screwed, blued and tattooed.
The run wasn't stupid. It was a clean slide. He made the right play. Good on hom for not going all "dear in headlights" like a certain ex-Bomber QB.

As for the "maybe he just wants to collect a pay cheque while doing nothing like last year". I'd scrap that. 1)no player wants to get injured. Injuries suck. 2) I know for a fact if the teams were switched and someone said that about a Bomber player, you would scoff at the mere idea.

But to reiterate, it wasn't a stupid move running. It was doing what was best at the time. If he sits back and takes sack after sack, that's much worse. Hindsight is hindsight but 99% of the time the defenders aren't making scumbag moves like Lawrence did
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2019, 02:51:22 PM »

Good QBs are essential to the CFL and that hit on Collaros while in a slide deserves a one game minimum suspension.   The hit was targeted and Lawrence can say whatever and he's sorry but the replay clearly shows intent to injure a QB in a vulnerable position.   Our officiating once again appears to be bush League at best!

If intentional it's difficult to understand Lawrence's motivation.  It was the first game of the season and everybody was just trying to find their groove, the game had just begun, there was no urgency or threat that required a game changing play or any point in sending a message.  Without any motivation I can half believe it was accidental and not an intentional head-shot.

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bunker
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« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2019, 03:13:02 PM »

If intentional it's difficult to understand Lawrence's motivation.  It was the first game of the season and everybody was just trying to find their groove, the game had just begun, there was no urgency or threat that required a game changing play or any point in sending a message.  Without any motivation I can half believe it was accidental and not an intentional head-shot.



It looked intentional to me. TSN at half time showed a clip of Lawrence trying to take out Buriss?s knee just after he returned from a knee injury. He?s a dirty player.


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/torontosun.com/2015/11/03/ticats-lawrence-not-sorry-for-hit-on-redblacks-burris/wcm/d4ebd77d-8006-4dfe-85d4-fcf2c2d7831d/amp
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2019, 03:30:00 PM »

If it wasn't intentional, than he was diving to take out Zach's knees head first.  Not sure it that's any better.
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Norm W
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« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2019, 04:36:55 PM »


Now that I've seen the Riders play a real game, I have to say their defence still looks good and their offence still looks bad. I can't imagine that their defence is going to score as many points as last year which equals less wins.


I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with this statement... You said it yourself, the Hamilton offence only connected on a couple of plays. Masoli didn't play as well as anticipated, he played well below his potential. Arguably Masoli's play made the Rider defence look much better than they were.
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« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2019, 05:56:34 PM »

Masoli struggled yesterday for sure. He had wide open looks that he missed.
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« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2019, 05:59:30 PM »

yeah Hammie looked really flat...and I don't think it was because of a staunch Rider defense
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2019, 09:07:38 PM »

A wide range of deserved anger towards Simoni. Does the CFL have the balls to announce something prior to / during the opening broadcast of tonights game?
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« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2019, 09:39:26 PM »

A wide range of deserved anger towards Simoni. Does the CFL have the balls to announce something prior to / during the opening broadcast of tonights game?
our balls are bigger.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2019, 09:41:55 PM »

A wide range of deserved anger towards Simoni. Does the CFL have the balls to announce something prior to / during the opening broadcast of tonights game?

I guess the CFL can announce whatever they like but good chance any drastic punishment would be appealed by the CFLPA anyway.  The league already knows this, so why would they make a special announcement and draw even more attention to the event? 
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« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2019, 09:59:23 PM »

To deter another event like this from happening.

If the league is serious about hits on defenseless players, it should suspend him, and if the CFLPA wanted to protect the long term health of its players, they?d let the suspension stand. THAT would send a message!!
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2019, 11:11:08 PM »

I guess the CFL can announce whatever they like but good chance any drastic punishment would be appealed by the CFLPA anyway.  The league already knows this, so why would they make a special announcement and draw even more attention to the event? 

The answers are all obvious.
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« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2019, 11:41:41 PM »

if the league decided to make it part of the penalty, an immediate, real time infraction, as opposed to a post game punishment, could the CFLPA say or do anything?  this is what I suggested in another related thread...

"maybe the league should take a look at hits like these and offer an elevated form of punishment...  this wasn't just a late hit, or one of those 'bang-bang' plays where it's hard to determine if a player could have pulled up on the hit... this was a conscience decision, a blatant, late hit leading with his shoulder aim directly at the QB's head meant to do nothing other than hurt the player he hit...

the NCAA implemented a 'targeting' rule, where as a player intentionally hits a 'defenseless' player that result in being ejected from the game in addition to the penalty...  it's basically a one game ejection, meaning if it happens in the first half you are gone for the rest of the game. if it happens in the second half you sit for the second half of the current game and the 1st half of the next game...

The CFL should do something similar... the one game ejection on the first infraction and then elevate it from there to possibly a 3 game ejection on a second offense, etc. giving the other team 10 extra yards means nothing when you can essentially impact their entire offense for a game, or possibly the rest of the season...

if the league is serious about player safety, they've been given a perfect opportunity to make a statement..."
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« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2019, 12:12:06 AM »

To the point of Collaros making a stupid decision to run, that's simply not accurate.  He did everything he was supposed to do in that situation, and even gave himself up old school (feet first, even though he could have gone head first with the new rule changes and he is provided the same "protection").  He was not in the wrong, as there's no reasonable way he could have expected an outcome like the one he received.

The run wasn't stupid. It was a clean slide. He made the right play. Good on hom for not going all "dear in headlights" like a certain ex-Bomber QB.

The decision of a QB to run in that situation is a good decision and the slide was a good decision... For a normal QB.  For Collaros with a target painted on his helmet and jello for brains it was stupid.  The correct course of action for Collaros in that situation is to throw the ball away OOB.  You know how I know that was the correct course of action for Collaros?  Because if he had done that, and not run up the gut all game, he'd have played the whole game, probably won, and still be playing football next week.  For Collaros, not getting hit should be job #1.

I didn't say it was fair, or right, or whatever.  It's just reality.  Sucks for Collaros, but that's his reality.  It has nothing to do with cheap shots or whatever.  Cheap shots are going to be taken by the Simonis in the league until the end of time, unless the CFL grows a pair.

If intentional it's difficult to understand Lawrence's motivation.  It was the first game of the season and everybody was just trying to find their groove, the game had just begun, there was no urgency or threat that required a game changing play or any point in sending a message.  Without any motivation I can half believe it was accidental and not an intentional head-shot.

Even the booth guys said it very early on: HAM obviously was trying to set the tone, even before the Zach hit, that they were going to be physical and tough.  You can bet your bottom dollar the talk all week and in the pre-game pep was to play more physical, smash-mouth football.  Even after the Zach hit HAM D was playing way more physical than SSK.

Simoni's motivation is to take the other QB out.  That's what DL/LBs are trained to do from birth.  Getting them to unlearn this is very difficult.  I have no problem with big hits, but they have to do it fairly and by the rules.  You don't take out sliding QBs.

I didn't see the game, and my PVR was changed since last season, so no preset for taping, did Fajardo get concussed?  Is that why Harker was in? 

Fajardo got tackled a few times and his head hit the turf pretty hard once.  He seemed ok but then was out for the next series.  Fajardo is probably fine since he has no history.  Zach is screwed.

Too bad you missed the game: could be the last time we see Zach.  Could be the last time SSK gets that close to winning a game all year.

3 plays into game 1 week 1 and the CFL is already mired in controversy  Shocked
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« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2019, 12:39:06 AM »

The decision of a QB to run in that situation is a good decision and the slide was a good decision... For a normal QB.  For Collaros with a target painted on his helmet and jello for brains it was stupid.  The correct course of action for Collaros in that situation is to throw the ball away OOB.  You know how I know that was the correct course of action for Collaros?  Because if he had done that, and not run up the gut all game, he'd have played the whole game, probably won, and still be playing football next week.  For Collaros, not getting hit should be job #1.
There isn't a target on his head and if there is that's dirty. Collaros did the right thing sliding.

He didn't ask to get hit. That's why he properly slid.
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« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2019, 03:11:25 AM »

It seems the league is meeting to discussion whether a suspension is in order. If that happens they hope to have the arbitration completed before the Ticat's next game.
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« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2019, 12:46:26 PM »

Victim blaming much? Collaros did exactly what he's supposed to. He slid to protect himself. That's his job. This one is all on SL. It was a cheap shot. It was intentional. It was dirty. It was unsafe. SL should have been ejected right away. If the rules don't allow that, then they can be changed by next week if the commish wants.
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« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2019, 05:10:19 PM »

Simoni has his hearing today.  Hopefully suspended. 

I am actually a bit surprised nobody on the Sask team went after him.  I know it probably doesn't do much and will result in a penalty - but if someone does that to Nichols I wouldn't be upset if an OL jumps in and dishes out some sort of justice. 
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« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2019, 05:20:26 PM »

Victim blaming much? Collaros did exactly what he's supposed to. He slid to protect himself. That's his job. This one is all on SL. It was a cheap shot. It was intentional. It was dirty. It was unsafe. SL should have been ejected right away. If the rules don't allow that, then they can be changed by next week if the commish wants.
Agreed....if he isn't suspended the league is a joke as far as officiating!   No excuses and saying sorry doesn't cut it.....he should have been automatically ejected and a 25 yard penalty for that egregious and dangerous play.   Instead he remains in the game while Collaros is out for concussion protocol and let's hope for his sake he's ok.   Those are career ending hits and I'm still at a loss as to why he wasn't automatically ejected.   The initial call by Proulx was only a 15 yard RTP call which was later overruled by the CC?  Wow!!
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« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2019, 05:36:48 PM »

Victim blaming much? Collaros did exactly what he's supposed to. He slid to protect himself. That's his job. This one is all on SL. It was a cheap shot. It was intentional. It was dirty. It was unsafe. SL should have been ejected right away. If the rules don't allow that, then they can be changed by next week if the commish wants.

This. The blame falls completely on Lawrence and nobody else. That was a dirty, dirty play.
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« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2019, 05:43:24 PM »

Agreed....if he isn't suspended the league is a joke as far as officiating!   No excuses and saying sorry doesn't cut it.....he should have been automatically ejected and a 25 yard penalty for that egregious and dangerous play.   Instead he remains in the game while Collaros is out for concussion protocol and let's hope for his sake he's ok.   Those are career ending hits and I'm still at a loss as to why he wasn't automatically ejected.   The initial call by Proulx was only a 15 yard RTP call which was later overruled by the CC?  Wow!!

I don't have a problem with the initial call - game is going fast, who knows what angle he saw...the process in game worked - they could have ejected him though
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« Reply #65 on: June 16, 2019, 10:20:19 AM »

Victim blaming much?

Ugh, you guys completely miss my point.  I tried clearing it up in my last comment.  You're not understanding what I'm saying.  It's subtle.

1. Dirty hit
2. Simoni should be suspended for as many games as possible
3. Collaros slid with plenty of time
4. Collaros deserved not to be hit
5. Collaros was stupid for running

We all agree on points #1-4.  I never said anything contrary to those points.

Here's the logic of #5:

0. Collaros is severely prone to concussions
1. Collaros got hit while running
2. Collaros got hit while sliding while running
3. Collaros was vulnerable while sliding
4. He got a concussion while vulnerable while sliding
5. Collaros is probably out for many games (or forever) because of the concussion

ERGO, follow the logic from point 5 up to point 0 and you get: Collaros should not have run!

Proof?  If Collaros had not run, he'd be playing happy as a clam in week 2.  It's not fair, it's not nice, it's logic!

That is all I am saying.  I liken it to R.Ray in his last season.  R.Ray was prone to injury.  Everyone cringed when R.Ray got hit.  R.Ray was smart enough to basically never run in his last 1-2 seasons.  As a result he probably extended his career by several games.  Collaros should have been smart like R.Ray.  He's scrambling like he's C.Streveler or something.  That's dumb when you're concussion prone.  If he comes back again, he needs to sit in the pocket and his team needs to get the best OL in the league, then he may be successful.
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« Reply #66 on: June 16, 2019, 01:20:25 PM »

Ugh, you guys completely miss my point.  I tried clearing it up in my last comment.  You're not understanding what I'm saying.  It's subtle.

1. Dirty hit
2. Simoni should be suspended for as many games as possible
3. Collaros slid with plenty of time
4. Collaros deserved not to be hit
5. Collaros was stupid for running

We all agree on points #1-4.  I never said anything contrary to those points.

Here's the logic of #5:

0. Collaros is severely prone to concussions
1. Collaros got hit while running
2. Collaros got hit while sliding while running
3. Collaros was vulnerable while sliding
4. He got a concussion while vulnerable while sliding
5. Collaros is probably out for many games (or forever) because of the concussion

ERGO, follow the logic from point 5 up to point 0 and you get: Collaros should not have run!

Proof?  If Collaros had not run, he'd be playing happy as a clam in week 2.  It's not fair, it's not nice, it's logic!

That is all I am saying.  I liken it to R.Ray in his last season.  R.Ray was prone to injury.  Everyone cringed when R.Ray got hit.  R.Ray was smart enough to basically never run in his last 1-2 seasons.  As a result he probably extended his career by several games.  Collaros should have been smart like R.Ray.  He's scrambling like he's C.Streveler or something.  That's dumb when you're concussion prone.  If he comes back again, he needs to sit in the pocket and his team needs to get the best OL in the league, then he may be successful.

You're the one who doesn't seem to get it.


Collaros ran because that's what the play called for. He slid so he wouldn't get hit. The rules should protect him. He shouldn't be expected to play his game differently, just in case SL feels like ignoring the rules. The idiot who plays outside the rules is the one who is totally at fault.

BTW: The results have absolutely nothing to do with it. Collaros getting up and going back to the huddle doesn't make it OK to rough him during a slide.
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« Reply #67 on: June 16, 2019, 01:25:19 PM »

5. Collaros was stupid for running

No. What's stupid is trying to pin blame on a QB for doing something he's always done, which is use his feet to make plays. That's practically ingrained in him and you can't just turn that off.

By your logic, and I use the term very loosely, a person who's been involved in multiple car accidents but not at fault for any of them should stop driving. See how absurd that sounds?
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« Reply #68 on: June 16, 2019, 01:38:46 PM »

Zach did NOTHING wrong.
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« Reply #69 on: June 16, 2019, 02:07:16 PM »

Every quarterback, regardless of his history with injuries, has to have a run-and-slide play in his arsenal.

The day that a QB can?t do this because of injury worries is the day the QB needs to retire.
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kkc60
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« Reply #70 on: June 16, 2019, 02:19:14 PM »

No. What's stupid is trying to pin blame on a QB for doing something he's always done, which is use his feet to make plays. That's practically ingrained in him and you can't just turn that off.

By your logic, and I use the term very loosely, a person who's been involved in multiple car accidents but not at fault for any of them should stop driving. See how absurd that sounds?
Again. If Collaros was our QB he would be singing a very different tune
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« Reply #71 on: June 16, 2019, 02:35:56 PM »

Agreed....if he isn't suspended the league is a joke as far as officiating!   No excuses and saying sorry doesn't cut it.....he should have been automatically ejected and a 25 yard penalty for that egregious and dangerous play.   Instead he remains in the game while Collaros is out for concussion protocol and let's hope for his sake he's ok.   Those are career ending hits and I'm still at a loss as to why he wasn't automatically ejected.   The initial call by Proulx was only a 15 yard RTP call which was later overruled by the CC?  Wow!!

Where did you get this from? It's wrong. 
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2019, 02:37:20 AM »

Every quarterback, regardless of his history with injuries, has to have a run-and-slide play in his arsenal.

The day that a QB can?t do this because of injury worries is the day the QB needs to retire.

I'm pretty sure R.Ray didn't run up the gut at all in his last 1.5 years.  If he did, it was only once.  R.Ray saw the writing on the wall, Collaros should too, I guess, if he can't keep himself from running.

As for everyone else: I never said Collaros did something wrong, I said he was stupid for running.  I never blamed him for Simoni being a jerk.  I said he was stupid for running.  Ask yourself this: is Collaros sitting at home thinking "maybe I shouldn't have run?", is his wife telling him "maybe you shouldn't run dear".  I bet they are.  I bet he'll think twice about that same play if he ever gets back on the field.  If no one can see the distinction between blame and bad decision making, that's fine, I give up.
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« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2019, 02:41:42 AM »

The initial call by Proulx was only a 15 yard RTP call which was later overruled by the CC?  Wow!!

Where did you get this from? It's wrong

The booth guys & panel mentioned it a couple of times, but they may have been speculating?  It's really hard to know whether it was Proulx called 25 or the EITS upgraded it.  So you both could be right, I don't think we can know either way until/unless the CFL says something about it.
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kkc60
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« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2019, 04:13:29 AM »

I'm pretty sure R.Ray didn't run up the gut at all in his last 1.5 years.  If he did, it was only once.  R.Ray saw the writing on the wall, Collaros should too, I guess, if he can't keep himself from running.

As for everyone else: I never said Collaros did something wrong, I said he was stupid for running.  I never blamed him for Simoni being a jerk.  I said he was stupid for running.  Ask yourself this: is Collaros sitting at home thinking "maybe I shouldn't have run?", is his wife telling him "maybe you shouldn't run dear".  I bet they are.  I bet he'll think twice about that same play if he ever gets back on the field.  If no one can see the distinction between blame and bad decision making, that's fine, I give up.

"I never said he was wrong. Just that he was stupid". Sorry but I think you've just talked yourself into a corner. Sure Collaros is saying "maybe I shouldn't have run" because now he knows the outcome. But that's hindsight.

If I knew ahead of time during my playing days that against the Rods I would break 2 ribs because I tried to tip a pass while being blocked and subsequently exposed myself to a lineman, who gave me a (albeit clean) shot to the ribs, would I do it again? No. But at the time it was the best thing I could do for my team.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2019, 04:50:24 AM »

I'm pretty sure R.Ray didn't run up the gut at all in his last 1.5 years.  If he did, it was only once.  R.Ray saw the writing on the wall, Collaros should too, I guess, if he can't keep himself from running.

As for everyone else: I never said Collaros did something wrong, I said he was stupid for running.  I never blamed him for Simoni being a jerk.  I said he was stupid for running.  Ask yourself this: is Collaros sitting at home thinking "maybe I shouldn't have run?", is his wife telling him "maybe you shouldn't run dear".  I bet they are.  I bet he'll think twice about that same play if he ever gets back on the field.  If no one can see the distinction between blame and bad decision making, that's fine, I give up.


Note neither Nichols nor Reilly attempted a QB sneak last night, not sure why Sask. thought that was a good play to run with a vulnerable QB.  Smart football is preserving the QB from harm as much as possible, I'd be happy if Nichols never ventured across the line of scrimmage for the entire season.
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« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2019, 05:26:58 AM »

Bombers are fortunate they have someone like Strevler who not only is a very productive "2nd and 1 situation" option, but who is also an option to stay in and take one or more plays following his first down production.  Not many other teams have that luxury.
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« Reply #77 on: June 17, 2019, 05:39:45 AM »

The booth guys & panel mentioned it a couple of times, but they may have been speculating?  It's really hard to know whether it was Proulx called 25 or the EITS upgraded it.  So you both could be right, I don't think we can know either way until/unless the CFL says something about it.


If he'd actually called a 15 yd roughing penalty, you might have something. But he didn't.  
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« Reply #78 on: June 17, 2019, 01:44:58 PM »


Justin Dunk @JDunk12

#CFL suspends #Ticats LB Simoni Lawrence two games for controversial head hit on #Riders QB Zach Collaros https://3downnation.com/2019/06/17/ticats-lb-simoni-lawrence-suspended-two-games-for-hit-on-riders-qb-zach-collaros/ ? #HamOnt #Saskatchewan #YQR #Regina


So there it is, 2 games for potentially ending a players career on a non-football play... 
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2019, 01:50:34 PM »

Good.  Now let's hope it sticks.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #80 on: June 17, 2019, 01:52:14 PM »


Justin Dunk @JDunk12

#CFL suspends #Ticats LB Simoni Lawrence two games for controversial head hit on #Riders QB Zach Collaros https://3downnation.com/2019/06/17/ticats-lb-simoni-lawrence-suspended-two-games-for-hit-on-riders-qb-zach-collaros/ ? #HamOnt #Saskatchewan #YQR #Regina


So there it is, 2 games for potentially ending a players career on a non-football play... 
That's more than I thought he'd get. Lets see what happens when the CFLPA gets involved.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #81 on: June 17, 2019, 01:53:15 PM »

Any word on whether he's appealing and / or whether that was also done over the weekend?
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« Reply #82 on: June 17, 2019, 02:37:29 PM »

That's more than I thought he'd get. Lets see what happens when the CFLPA gets involved.

If the league is smart they would have received approval from the CFLPA before the announcement to quickly put the issue to bed.
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« Reply #83 on: June 17, 2019, 02:52:32 PM »

If the league is smart they would have received approval from the CFLPA before the announcement to quickly put the issue to bed.

That's a big "if", and based on recent events, I'd say small percentage "if"...

The CFLPA is conflicted here, one of its members may have ended another (higher paid) members career.  Which one do you defend?  And how can you defend Lawrence's act when you are espousing a desire to remedy player safety issues, something Lawrence was in total defiance of.

The only reason for an appeal is to get Lawrence his paychecks back.  Money.  Which is more important, money or player safety?

I think that, if the CFLPA wants ANY credibility to its desire for improved player safety, that they should refuse to appeal or protect Lawrence in any way, and any players in the future who are fined / suspended for player safety concerns.  Sure he is a member and a brother, but he broke their rules...  have a backbone CFLPA and start acting in the players best safety interest, not money interest.
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« Reply #84 on: June 17, 2019, 03:38:44 PM »

Having a backbone doesn't come into play, the right to appeal is just that, a right. The players pay the players association to represent them, they may be conflicted but they still have an obligation to represent the player when they exercise their right to appeal.  Don't take this as me suggesting the punishment doesn't fit the crime, just pointing out its not an option for the players association to say pound sand, get your own lawyer.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #85 on: June 17, 2019, 03:49:12 PM »

That's a big "if", and based on recent events, I'd say small percentage "if"...

The CFLPA is conflicted here, one of its members may have ended another (higher paid) members career.  Which one do you defend?  And how can you defend Lawrence's act when you are espousing a desire to remedy player safety issues, something Lawrence was in total defiance of.

The only reason for an appeal is to get Lawrence his paychecks back.  Money.  Which is more important, money or player safety?

I think that, if the CFLPA wants ANY credibility to its desire for improved player safety, that they should refuse to appeal or protect Lawrence in any way, and any players in the future who are fined / suspended for player safety concerns.  Sure he is a member and a brother, but he broke their rules...  have a backbone CFLPA and start acting in the players best safety interest, not money interest.

It also depends on Simoni's defence as there are two sides to every story, I've heard several CFL players defend the hit as happening at game speed when unintended consequences come into play.  It's a given that D players do not respect the right of the QB to take yards in exchange for a pat on the bum and often want to send a message to discourage the practice.  I believe this is what Lawrence intended to do but miscalculated his impact badly.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #86 on: June 17, 2019, 03:54:46 PM »

Ambroisie's basically thrown down the gauntlet to the CFLPA in regards to an appeal, saying that all parties agree player safety is #1.

https://www.cfl.ca/2019/06/17/simoni-lawrence-handed-two-game-suspension-hit-collaros/

Now, I don't know what the mechanism is if Simoni wants to appeal and the CFLPA doesn't wish to move forward on it.  I would guess that they can't refuse him representation as long as he is a member, so their only possible recourse, and this is a long shot, would be to tell him that they would cancel his membership in the PA if he chose to do this, which I doubt they can do and I suspect would result in a legal battle which no one wants.

I suspect they advise Simoni that he should "take one for the league" in this regard if they don't want to pursue this.
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1chad
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« Reply #87 on: June 17, 2019, 04:04:52 PM »

Ambroisie's basically thrown down the gauntlet to the CFLPA in regards to an appeal, saying that all parties agree player safety is #1.

https://www.cfl.ca/2019/06/17/simoni-lawrence-handed-two-game-suspension-hit-collaros/

Now, I don't know what the mechanism is if Simoni wants to appeal and the CFLPA doesn't wish to move forward on it.  I would guess that they can't refuse him representation as long as he is a member, so their only possible recourse, and this is a long shot, would be to tell him that they would cancel his membership in the PA if he chose to do this, which I doubt they can do and I suspect would result in a legal battle which no one wants.

I suspect they advise Simoni that he should "take one for the league" in this regard if they don't want to pursue this.
that is quite a significant portion of his salary to "take one for the league".  two games of 18 equals just over 11% of his salary.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #88 on: June 17, 2019, 04:06:05 PM »

The may need to represent him, but do they have to give up their player safety stance in doing so?  

Can the "defend" him by saying "Yup, he did it, guilty, please can we have a slightly lower sentence?"  And then when the league says "No, in fact, since you appealed, he gets 4 games", they say, "We tried"...  

I get that Lawrence is a member and pays for the right to be defended by the PA.  But he may have ended a players career, a player also defended by the PA.  How can the PA fight both sides?  They have to choose to defend the player NOT breaking player safety guidelines.  


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bunker
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« Reply #89 on: June 17, 2019, 04:45:19 PM »

I'm happy with the duration of the suspension, and hope it stays at 2 games. Its a start in terms of changing the calculus of players regarding aggression/intimidation versus player safety/loss of income.
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1chad
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« Reply #90 on: June 17, 2019, 04:57:33 PM »

The may need to represent him, but do they have to give up their player safety stance in doing so?  

Can the "defend" him by saying "Yup, he did it, guilty, please can we have a slightly lower sentence?"  And then when the league says "No, in fact, since you appealed, he gets 4 games", they say, "We tried"...  

I get that Lawrence is a member and pays for the right to be defended by the PA.  But he may have ended a players career, a player also defended by the PA.  How can the PA fight both sides?  They have to choose to defend the player NOT breaking player safety guidelines.  




I always think about similar actions in the NHL, when the NHLPA defends the player being suspended or fined and does not represent the interests of the player who was injured.  A commentator said the NHL, as the disciplinary body, takes on de facto representation of the injured player's interests while the NHLPA represents the player being fined.  I suspect a similar dynamic is in play with the CFL and the CFLPA.
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