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Author Topic: 2019 Main Training Camp  (Read 25553 times)
TheHypnotoad
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« Reply #210 on: June 04, 2019, 08:38:18 PM »

You've got unrealistic expectaions for drafting. Every sports entry draft is a crapshoot, especially the cfl because the level of competition is so much higher from Usports to CFL. Other teams don't do much better. Many do much worse.
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Jesse
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« Reply #211 on: June 05, 2019, 12:56:34 AM »

Loffler - Gone
Chungh - Gone
Goosen - Gone

That leaves 1 starter left on the team since the Canadian Mafia took over.

Changing the conversation here.

He was talking about our development of players. Doesn't matter where they are now.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #212 on: June 05, 2019, 02:43:55 AM »

Concerned about what? The fact O'Shea didn't want to play him in a week they needed to assess 100 players and virtually no veterans played for any significant amount of time?

Concerned that a pro player wants to play every snap of every game including pre -season?

No. There is nothing to be concerned about.

I don't know what, hence the question if we should be concerned...

well, based upon general conversation here by the majority that have spoke to the subject of preseason games... the consensus seems to be the home team generally plays their starters, or at least start them in that game and the visiting team tend to play their the players hoping to make the team... last week we were the home team, Darvin played... Harris played... as well as many others... no Nichols...

couple that with similar types of comments that starters generally never play more than a quarter of any preseason games... so, Nichols wanting to play the entire game, a road game where one is led to believe that the home team will be playing their starters...

and lastly, I didn't see anyway that Nichols indicated that he wanted to play last week, so no, not overly concerned since this specific pro player doesn't seem to fit your example...

but thanks for reassuring me that I have nothing to worry about... however, if he were to get hurt in the 4th quarter of this upcoming game, I expect to not hear any comments such as "why the hell was Nichols even in there, it was the 4th quarter of a freaking preseason game for gosh sakes"...


Aards: No, no question who #1 is, but see my first 2 comments as to why I asked... it was a legit question, it seemed odd as this doesn't seem to be the normal practice...
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #213 on: June 05, 2019, 03:48:59 PM »

Concerned about what? The fact O'Shea didn't want to play him in a week they needed to assess 100 players and virtually no veterans played for any significant amount of time?

Concerned that a pro player wants to play every snap of every game including pre -season?

No. There is nothing to be concerned about.

this thread seems to support my logic...  http://forums.bluebombers.com/index.php?topic=51600.0
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GCn19
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« Reply #214 on: June 05, 2019, 04:22:18 PM »

Changing the conversation here.

He was talking about our development of players. Doesn't matter where they are now.

Exactly. Saying we don't haven't developed NAT starters is a fallacy.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #215 on: June 05, 2019, 04:33:52 PM »

Changing the conversation here.

He was talking about our development of players. Doesn't matter where they are now.
It does matter where they are. It also matters that our current group has only found 4 starters since they took over and they are having to replace 3 of those this year.
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kkc60
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« Reply #216 on: June 05, 2019, 04:52:54 PM »

It does matter where they are. It also matters that our current group has only found 4 starters since they took over and they are having to replace 3 of those this year.
This. I get that not all 3 leaving was in.our control but it's only been 4 starters in what, 6 or 7 years?

Sure guys like Gray and Desjarlais should be good but they were also first round picks, the expectation is that they are starters.
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rubanski
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« Reply #217 on: June 05, 2019, 05:23:31 PM »

It does matter where they are. It also matters that our current group has only found 4 starters since they took over and they are having to replace 3 of those this year.

If you want to apply that logic to your complaint/concern, in fairness you have to acknowledge trades or free agents we've picked up that are starters or impact players.

Andrew Harris good enough for you?
How about Pat Neufeld for Alex Hall and a 2nd round draftpick (which became Dylan Ainsworth, btw whodat?). Seems like sound use of "development assets" aka draft picks.
M Miller and Hecht are someone else's draft picks we scooped up, and I don't believe either is making big bucks, but they're making a big difference.
Demski had his best pro year BY FAR as a BB.


Our CDN content has gone from a complete farce to top tier under the Canadian Mafia. Gone are the days of starting Brock Ralph as a decoy receiver.
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kkc60
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« Reply #218 on: June 05, 2019, 05:38:29 PM »

If you want to apply that logic to your complaint/concern, in fairness you have to acknowledge trades or free agents we've picked up that are starters or impact players.

Andrew Harris good enough for you?
How about Pat Neufeld for Alex Hall and a 2nd round draftpick (which became Dylan Ainsworth, btw whodat?). Seems like sound use of "development assets" aka draft picks.
M Miller and Hecht are someone else's draft picks we scooped up, and I don't believe either is making big bucks, but they're making a big difference.
Demski had his best pro year BY FAR as a BB.


Our CDN content has gone from a complete farce to top tier under the Canadian Mafia. Gone are the days of starting Brock Ralph as a decoy receiver.
Hecht making a big difference? Not a good one most likely. Hes a 33 year old journeyman.

The issue though is it's impossible to afford paying 7 starting canadian FAs, at least good ones. As for the Alex Hall trade, that was a good one for us, yes.

Of course we have signed great Canadian players. But we signed them. We didn't develop them. We didn't save the money that coincides with rookie contracts. Other teams worked with them and we signed the finished product. Not the same thing
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #219 on: June 05, 2019, 05:42:03 PM »

If you want to apply that logic to your complaint/concern, in fairness you have to acknowledge trades or free agents we've picked up that are starters or impact players.

Andrew Harris good enough for you?
How about Pat Neufeld for Alex Hall and a 2nd round draftpick (which became Dylan Ainsworth, btw whodat?). Seems like sound use of "development assets" aka draft picks.
M Miller and Hecht are someone else's draft picks we scooped up, and I don't believe either is making big bucks, but they're making a big difference.
Demski had his best pro year BY FAR as a BB.


Our CDN content has gone from a complete farce to top tier under the Canadian Mafia. Gone are the days of starting Brock Ralph as a decoy receiver.
We didn't develop Harris or Neufeld or Hecht or Miller. Maybe Demski, but he was already a starter with the Riders before we signed him.

I agree that the quality of our Canuck content has gone up since the Canadian Mafia took over, but they only drafted 1 starter every two years or so and they lost the best 3 of them this year. Just being a first round pick doesn't mean that much either. Waggoner (2nd overall supplemental pick) and Faith Ekatite (#1 Overall) were both busts.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #220 on: June 05, 2019, 05:45:57 PM »

I don't know what, hence the question if we should be concerned...

well, based upon general conversation here by the majority that have spoke to the subject of preseason games... the consensus seems to be the home team generally plays their starters, or at least start them in that game and the visiting team tend to play their the players hoping to make the team... last week we were the home team, Darvin played... Harris played... as well as many others... no Nichols...

couple that with similar types of comments that starters generally never play more than a quarter of any preseason games... so, Nichols wanting to play the entire game, a road game where one is led to believe that the home team will be playing their starters...

and lastly, I didn't see anyway that Nichols indicated that he wanted to play last week, so no, not overly concerned since this specific pro player doesn't seem to fit your example...

but thanks for reassuring me that I have nothing to worry about... however, if he were to get hurt in the 4th quarter of this upcoming game, I expect to not hear any comments such as "why the hell was Nichols even in there, it was the 4th quarter of a freaking preseason game for gosh sakes"...


Aards: No, no question who #1 is, but see my first 2 comments as to why I asked... it was a legit question, it seemed odd as this doesn't seem to be the normal practice...

It's normal but not the rule. It's not normal to only have 1 normal starting OL available and only 1 normal starting receiver.

It was reported that Nichols wanted to play but it's easy to understand WHY he didn't.

It's also not unusual for him to want every snap this week. Nobody said that will happen. I doubt he gets more than 1 1/4 Q's. OTOH we're not playing very many starters this week either.

So who knows how that helps any starter get the rust off. Fortunately we have time before the 1st season game I suppose.

I don't see how the link you posted  about the game day string supports your argument in any way.

You see to want to create a problem where none exists. Go figure

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rubanski
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« Reply #221 on: June 05, 2019, 05:47:09 PM »

Hecht making a big difference? Not a good one most likely. Hes a 33 year old journeyman.

The issue though is it's impossible to afford paying 7 starting canadian FAs, at least good ones. As for the Alex Hall trade, that was a good one for us, yes.

Of course we have signed great Canadian players. But we signed them. We didn't develop them. We didn't save the money that coincides with rookie contracts. Other teams worked with them and we signed the finished product. Not the same thing

You don't "save" money having a CDN ride the pine for 1 to 2 years.

That's my point with Demski. SK got no value out of their supposedly "cheap" rookie contract on him.

Or how about Henoc? Dude was a waste of space his rookie year.

And I still think it's completely two-faced to be mourning the loss of Loffler, Chungh & Goosen, but not be satisfied with the quality Nats we have picked up. Our starting CDN 7 is rock solid and as good as any team not named "Stampeders" over the last 5 years.


To top it all off, we have, what appears to be, quality home grown, drafted and developed replacements for the departures.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 05:49:59 PM by rubanski » Logged
Blue In BC
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« Reply #222 on: June 05, 2019, 05:48:17 PM »

Hecht making a big difference? Not a good one most likely. Hes a 33 year old journeyman.

The issue though is it's impossible to afford paying 7 starting canadian FAs, at least good ones. As for the Alex Hall trade, that was a good one for us, yes.

Of course we have signed great Canadian players. But we signed them. We didn't develop them. We didn't save the money that coincides with rookie contracts. Other teams worked with them and we signed the finished product. Not the same thing

Exactly. It's the SMS issue that impacts the rest of the roster. Kudos to signing Harris but we're paying him a lot of money. He's worth the money but that's not the entire point for example.
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kkc60
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« Reply #223 on: June 05, 2019, 06:22:06 PM »

You don't "save" money having a CDN ride the pine for 1 to 2 years.

That's my point with Demski. SK got no value out of their supposedly "cheap" rookie contract on him.

Or how about Henoc? Dude was a waste of space his rookie year.

And I still think it's completely two-faced to be mourning the loss of Loffler, Chungh & Goosen, but not be satisfied with the quality Nats we have picked up. Our starting CDN 7 is rock solid and as good as any team not named "Stampeders" over the last 5 years.


To top it all off, we have, what appears to be, quality home grown, drafted and developed replacements for the departures.
Sure you don't save money with them on the bench for two years. But you do if they start year 1 or 2 (or if it's a 3 year deal then year 3).

Sask didn't get value out of Demski, true. And that's their mistake. Sask also mostly sucked and sucks at developing canadians. You don't want to compare us to them.

I never said our starting Canadian 7 isn't good. No one said that. And no one said our Canadian FA signings aren't good. I applaud KW and co for getting some good local starters and building a good Canadian nucleus. But comparing the draft and FA is a waste of time. The idea behind the draft is to take young players who you believe you can find a role for and develop into a starter (at least in rounds 1 and 2). FA is when you sign mostly finished pieces that have a role.

We don't really.though. We have 1st round picks in Gray and Desjarlais that better become starters. Speller and Jones, I mean who knows.

There is nothing wrong with our Canadian group. But it's pretty much impossible to continue to just rely on FAs to fill 6 or 7 spots
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rubanski
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« Reply #224 on: June 05, 2019, 07:59:07 PM »

Sure you don't save money with them on the bench for two years. But you do if they start year 1 or 2 (or if it's a 3 year deal then year 3).

Sask didn't get value out of Demski, true. And that's their mistake. Sask also mostly sucked and sucks at developing canadians. You don't want to compare us to them.

I never said our starting Canadian 7 isn't good. No one said that. And no one said our Canadian FA signings aren't good. I applaud KW and co for getting some good local starters and building a good Canadian nucleus. But comparing the draft and FA is a waste of time. The idea behind the draft is to take young players who you believe you can find a role for and develop into a starter (at least in rounds 1 and 2). FA is when you sign mostly finished pieces that have a role.

We don't really.though. We have 1st round picks in Gray and Desjarlais that better become starters. Speller and Jones, I mean who knows.

There is nothing wrong with our Canadian group. But it's pretty much impossible to continue to just rely on FAs to fill 6 or 7 spots

Look, I'm just saying Demski may as well have been drafted and developed by us. He represents the risk of "developing" a player for 2 or 3 years in this league. By the time they're useful, they have free reign to go where they want.

I also don't agree on your FA vs draft comment. FA can easily be the place to pick an all-star CDN, and the drafting is for all your B and C level CDNs. Why not do it that way?

Point is, our CDN content is solid. We draft some, we trade for some, we sign some. Who cares how we get there, it's irrelevant. I care about the end result, and a repeatable process.


Could the CDN Mafia be doing better in any of those areas? Sure. But I think they're performing above league average there.

There isn't a team in the league that routinely finds a starter out of their Round 1 and their Round 2 pick most draft years.
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