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Author Topic: Blue Bombers Transactions - April 29, 2019  (Read 11677 times)
GCn19
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« Reply #75 on: May 04, 2019, 10:06:46 PM »

I think Streveler is the best QB we have, but I don't see him getting more reps than he did last year unless Nichols is injured. MOS and PLAP will play the starter as much as possible. I don't see him getting an NFL look after this year either.

If Nichols struggles we may see Streveler. If he doesn't and stays healthy we won't see him much other than sktuationally or mop up.
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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #76 on: May 04, 2019, 10:16:10 PM »

I think Streveler is the best QB we have, but I don't see him getting more reps than he did last year unless Nichols is injured. MOS and PLAP will play the starter as much as possible. I don't see him getting an NFL look after this year either.

Most potential yes, best, no.  I don't see him going to NFL unless lights it up for a couple years.  Even then, long shot for sure.  Agree with rest.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #77 on: May 04, 2019, 10:30:15 PM »

as I've stated numerous times here, I have no issue with our receiving corp... but do you actually believe that if we signed Derrel Walker that we are going to all of sudden change the entire offense? Darvin Adams was mentioned as one of the most under valued player by his peers in an article in 2017... Darvins numbers may not be as impressive as other more highly touted receivers but it has more to do with 'opportunity' than it does talent...  as stated multiple times on this forum, long ball play for the Bombers is 'not who we are'...

When you look at Darvin's production over the last few seasons it's hard to understand why we don't appreciate him more than we do... he was a 1,000 yard receiver in each of the last 2 seasons, was on track to do so in '16 as well but missed 10 games, and over 800 yards in '15 and has consistently been in the top 10, last year in the top 4, in the league in TDs scored... all the while playing for a team that is last in the league in 20+ yard attempts... I'm not sure what else we could expect from him...

we're a 'ball security, low risk throw' team, signing 1 player won't change that... again, it's been said many times here, players must fit the system, not the other way around...

Yes.

If we signed Derel Walker there would be changes to the game planning and strategy. If you have 1 deep ball receiver you do some things,  but add a 2nd and / or a 3rd it's going to change the strategy. To suggest otherwise is absurd.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #78 on: May 04, 2019, 10:34:37 PM »

If Nichols struggles we may see Streveler. If he doesn't and stays healthy we won't see him much other than sktuationally or mop up.

The Bombers may need to think about 2020 during the season. In that sense I can see why they'd look to get Streveler more game time even when Nichols is not struggling. Of course game situations go a long way to dictate what an offense does or doesn't do.

Hopefully we often get big leads and he sees the field. O'Shea / Lapo need to get back ups at many positions opportunities when practical.

It's hard in close games but there always situations both good and bad where others should see the field more often.
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swansong
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« Reply #79 on: May 05, 2019, 12:48:23 AM »

Fascinating. I had no idea it was Chevy's fault that Nichols is a pocket passer who can't scramble or run or throw a consistent deep ball.

Darn you, Chevy. Maybe if you never mention it again it will cease to be true. Ever thought of that? Hmmm?

It's probably also your fault he abdicates responsibility for his poor performances. You're killing us, man.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #80 on: May 06, 2019, 01:10:54 AM »

Yes.

If we signed Derel Walker there would be changes to the game planning and strategy. If you have 1 deep ball receiver you do some things,  but add a 2nd and / or a 3rd it's going to change the strategy. To suggest otherwise is absurd.

I wouldn't call it absurd because if you consider that today we have 4 receivers other than Adams, (Simonise, Petermann, Thompkins, and Washington), that have 4.5 speed and 2 that are 6'4"... although they may not have that Derel Walker pedigree, yet anyway, they all have enough talent that defenses would have to respect them and could help create space for Adams...

and you have to wonder how serious Walters is about adding another import receiver when you hear him say they may start 3 national receivers this year...

hopefully, before we spend a lot of money on a new receiver and the fact that there really isn't anyone out there to be excited about that is available, they give these guys a shot, especially Simonise as he checks 2 boxes and since we already have them it's not like we'd be losing anything... plus I honestly think that they have the talent to pull it off...

but more to your point, I really don't think there would be a significant scheme change regardless of who we may sign, and for many reasons... if you look at it from Lapo's point of view why would he want to change it up? Nichols is obviously more comfortable and effective in the shorter game as it plays to his strengths, we've lead the league in scoring in the last 2 years, and 20+ yard tosses are generally lower percentage throws, regardless of receiver or QB.  Secondly, you bring in a new #1, what does that do to Adams, from a confidence stand point if nothing else, and does the new guy just take Adams targets which results in a net zero gain at the end of the day... given the upcoming changes to the o line I'm not sure if Nichols will have as much time in the pocket as he's had in years past... and lastly, I think Nichols does a better job when he gets in that rhythm when things are working, i.e. when he's completing most of his passes and he keeps them moving down the field... I know that would seem obvious, but the short game is his bread and butter and when he gets on a roll he does a great job at it... but it seems that when we do try to stretch the field more, if he doesn't get off to a good start with it, it effects the other part of his game as well, like he starts pressing or forcing throws... it becomes more of a mental thing for him...

but we don't know until it happens so it's speculation on both of or part's, but that's what makes it interesting and fun...
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #81 on: May 06, 2019, 01:13:13 AM »

Fascinating. I had no idea it was Chevy's fault that Nichols is a pocket passer who can't scramble or run or throw a consistent deep ball.

Darn you, Chevy. Maybe if you never mention it again it will cease to be true. Ever thought of that? Hmmm?

It's probably also your fault he abdicates responsibility for his poor performances. You're killing us, man.

you're killing me, man, lol... but for you, I'll try to keep from screwing it up moving forward...  Wink
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GCn19
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« Reply #82 on: May 06, 2019, 11:11:26 AM »

I wouldn't call it absurd because if you consider that today we have 4 receivers other than Adams, (Simonise, Petermann, Thompkins, and Washington), that have 4.5 speed and 2 that are 6'4"... although they may not have that Derel Walker pedigree, yet anyway, they all have enough talent that defenses would have to respect them and could help create space for Adams...

and you have to wonder how serious Walters is about adding another import receiver when you hear him say they may start 3 national receivers this year...

hopefully, before we spend a lot of money on a new receiver and the fact that there really isn't anyone out there to be excited about that is available, they give these guys a shot, especially Simonise as he checks 2 boxes and since we already have them it's not like we'd be losing anything... plus I honestly think that they have the talent to pull it off...

but more to your point, I really don't think there would be a significant scheme change regardless of who we may sign, and for many reasons... if you look at it from Lapo's point of view why would he want to change it up? Nichols is obviously more comfortable and effective in the shorter game as it plays to his strengths, we've lead the league in scoring in the last 2 years, and 20+ yard tosses are generally lower percentage throws, regardless of receiver or QB.  Secondly, you bring in a new #1, what does that do to Adams, from a confidence stand point if nothing else, and does the new guy just take Adams targets which results in a net zero gain at the end of the day... given the upcoming changes to the o line I'm not sure if Nichols will have as much time in the pocket as he's had in years past... and lastly, I think Nichols does a better job when he gets in that rhythm when things are working, i.e. when he's completing most of his passes and he keeps them moving down the field... I know that would seem obvious, but the short game is his bread and butter and when he gets on a roll he does a great job at it... but it seems that when we do try to stretch the field more, if he doesn't get off to a good start with it, it effects the other part of his game as well, like he starts pressing or forcing throws... it becomes more of a mental thing for him...

but we don't know until it happens so it's speculation on both of or part's, but that's what makes it interesting and fun...

Game plans would change if necessary. Lapo will always be a dink and dunk possession first coach, but, if we are trailing he would open up his game plan if he had the necessary tools in his toolbox.

Imo, Nichols would be foolish if he isn't preparing for this season like it's a contract year. Surely, he must know that Streveler is nipping at his heels and that the Bombers have to make a decision this year on Strev's future with the club. A decision on Strev's future is pretty much a decision on his future. If Nichols wants his contract to extend beyond this year then he needs to have a better season than last year. I am hoping this will bring the best out in him.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 11:25:59 AM by GCn18 » Logged

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booch
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« Reply #83 on: May 06, 2019, 01:17:47 PM »

I'm fine with the receievers as well, and hope as do many that this camp uncovers a game breaker...but like Chevy said, and I have in past, our receivers get what they get based on our scheme and our route tree we use, which at times, well most times is predicated on players in a static spot on the field and as release valves and security and to aid in clogging up tacklers for the short  game we seem to prefer...Adams can and has been a deep threat, and if he was used like Duke Williams..Walker..Rogers would put up the eye popping numbers but thats not who we are...or have been

Numbers arise out off opportunities and what you are running in your routes...Adams generally makes all his catches, a majority of which are hooks and moderate range outs..5-6 times a game...guys like Williams..Walker..Ellingson etc...may make the long gainer in games, but if you watch a lot of games they are missed on 3..4..5 of the attempts too..with drives dying in the process.

If we used a guy like C. Washington or Simonese on the edge..tossed them 3 or 4 Adams type plays a game and also mixed in 5 or 6 field stretchers...I can guarantee you they would have big fat numbers...but would it result in our offence racking up the top scoring numbers in the league like the last 2 years...nope..
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #84 on: May 06, 2019, 01:38:53 PM »

I wouldn't call it absurd because if you consider that today we have 4 receivers other than Adams, (Simonise, Petermann, Thompkins, and Washington), that have 4.5 speed and 2 that are 6'4"... although they may not have that Derel Walker pedigree, yet anyway, they all have enough talent that defenses would have to respect them and could help create space for Adams...

and you have to wonder how serious Walters is about adding another import receiver when you hear him say they may start 3 national receivers this year...

hopefully, before we spend a lot of money on a new receiver and the fact that there really isn't anyone out there to be excited about that is available, they give these guys a shot, especially Simonise as he checks 2 boxes and since we already have them it's not like we'd be losing anything... plus I honestly think that they have the talent to pull it off...

but more to your point, I really don't think there would be a significant scheme change regardless of who we may sign, and for many reasons... if you look at it from Lapo's point of view why would he want to change it up? Nichols is obviously more comfortable and effective in the shorter game as it plays to his strengths, we've lead the league in scoring in the last 2 years, and 20+ yard tosses are generally lower percentage throws, regardless of receiver or QB.  Secondly, you bring in a new #1, what does that do to Adams, from a confidence stand point if nothing else, and does the new guy just take Adams targets which results in a net zero gain at the end of the day... given the upcoming changes to the o line I'm not sure if Nichols will have as much time in the pocket as he's had in years past... and lastly, I think Nichols does a better job when he gets in that rhythm when things are working, i.e. when he's completing most of his passes and he keeps them moving down the field... I know that would seem obvious, but the short game is his bread and butter and when he gets on a roll he does a great job at it... but it seems that when we do try to stretch the field more, if he doesn't get off to a good start with it, it effects the other part of his game as well, like he starts pressing or forcing throws... it becomes more of a mental thing for him...

but we don't know until it happens so it's speculation on both of or part's, but that's what makes it interesting and fun...

You said it. They don't yet have the pedigree of Walker yet.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #85 on: May 06, 2019, 02:31:00 PM »

Game plans would change if necessary. Lapo will always be a dink and dunk possession first coach, but, if we are trailing he would open up his game plan if he had the necessary tools in his toolbox.

Imo, Nichols would be foolish if he isn't preparing for this season like it's a contract year. Surely, he must know that Streveler is nipping at his heels and that the Bombers have to make a decision this year on Strev's future with the club. A decision on Strev's future is pretty much a decision on his future. If Nichols wants his contract to extend beyond this year then he needs to have a better season than last year. I am hoping this will bring the best out in him.

but, that's not an offensive scheme, that's a situational in-game adjustment to the scheme...

You said it. They don't yet have the pedigree of Walker yet.

but how do you think the Derrel Walkers of the league got those pedigrees?   it wasn't by running a hand full of 5 yard outs over the course of a season...
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #86 on: May 06, 2019, 03:16:12 PM »

but, that's not an offensive scheme, that's a situational in-game adjustment to the scheme...

but how do you think the Derrel Walkers of the league got those pedigrees?   it wasn't by running a hand full of 5 yard outs over the course of a season...

That's only partially true. A receiver that can get open, juke a DB out of his jock on his every play, break tackles, has speed, shield the ball away from the DB, receive the ball at the high point doesn't always need to catch a deep ball to accumulate YAC. Receivers whether big or small can be very difficult to bring down while others get knocked down or caught immediately.

You have to be able to show those skills in games to get more opportunities for any type of reception let alone deeper receptions.

It helps if your OL can provide longer protection and if your QB has more than average mobility.



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Blue72
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« Reply #87 on: May 06, 2019, 03:53:06 PM »

The problem with our team is:

- The HC is to stubborn to play his backups when the starters are having trouble or when the game is won or lost already
- The DC needs a full squad of IMP players to make him look good which hurts the offense
- The HC is worried to hurt his QBs feelings to pull him when Nichols is having problems in the game
- The OC either likes sure plays to move the ball or doesn't have enough trust in his QB compared to Streveler ( more open game, running and more then 5 yard throws)
- The QB takes to much time to get rid of the ball so he goes to his short game more often to make himself look good or like the playoffs and throws it out of bounds
- If Harris ever went down you would see Nichols in a lot of trouble because he counts on his RB a LOT, running and "short" passes
- Streveler had problems last year as a rookie but needs more playing time especially having a good arm and being mobile but will he get it under these coaches?
- They count on Harris way to much and how much more of a beating could one guy take especially at his age
- It takes this team almost a quarter to get into a game either they are not prepare properly or slow starters

I love my team but until some of these things are looked into it will be hard to make the next step into the playoffs. We have a great team on paper now the coaches have to make some miner adjustments to take us to the next level.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #88 on: May 06, 2019, 04:09:40 PM »

The problem with our team is:

- The HC is to stubborn to play his backups when the starters are having trouble or when the game is won or lost already
- The DC needs a full squad of IMP players to make him look good which hurts the offense
- The HC is worried to hurt his QBs feelings to pull him when Nichols is having problems in the game
- The OC either likes sure plays to move the ball or doesn't have enough trust in his QB compared to Streveler ( more open game, running and more then 5 yard throws)
- The QB takes to much time to get rid of the ball so he goes to his short game more often to make himself look good or like the playoffs and throws it out of bounds
- If Harris ever went down you would see Nichols in a lot of trouble because he counts on his RB a LOT, running and "short" passes
- Streveler had problems last year as a rookie but needs more playing time especially having a good arm and being mobile but will he get it under these coaches?
- They count on Harris way to much and how much more of a beating could one guy take especially at his age
- It takes this team almost a quarter to get into a game either they are not prepare properly or slow starters

I love my team but until some of these things are looked into it will be hard to make the next step into the playoffs. We have a great team on paper now the coaches have to make some miner adjustments to take us to the next level.

Everything you said is true or close to true. However a ball control offense is not the worst situation. Quick strike teams often can't maintain ball control when necessary to preserve the win.

If the offense goes out in the 1st Q and throws TD's on the 1st play of their 1st two series and then can't stay on the field in the 2nd half? Defense tires out in the 2nd half due to lack of long time consuming drives by the offense.

There are trade offs but we were at the top of scoring in 2018. Sure I'd like more long plays but I'm happy with 20 5 yard plays on a long scoring drive too.

Teams often adjust to young QB's in the 2nd season. They tend to take away their scrambling lanes and make them throw more from the pocket.

That happened to Jennings in Vancouver. He was less successful when he had to read defenses and drive the field rather than buy time during scrambling waiting for receivers to get open.

That may not happen with Streveler. 1st of all he's a stronger more physical runner than Jennings IMO. OTOH I'm not sure how quickly he's learning to make all his reads and how accurate / strong his passing game will become. If the starter is injured he may not be allowed to scramble as much. We saw that caution Lapo took when Nichols was hurt to start the year.

He missed some really open receivers as well with under or over throwing at times. 1st year inexperience perhaps.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #89 on: May 06, 2019, 05:32:24 PM »

That's only partially true. A receiver that can get open, juke a DB out of his jock on his every play, break tackles, has speed, shield the ball away from the DB, receive the ball at the high point doesn't always need to catch a deep ball to accumulate YAC. Receivers whether big or small can be very difficult to bring down while others get knocked down or caught immediately.

You have to be able to show those skills in games to get more opportunities for any type of reception let alone deeper receptions.

It helps if your OL can provide longer protection and if your QB has more than average mobility.





but that's not the conversation we were having... we were talking about signing another 'big name' receiver to help Darvin out... unless you're sending another receiver deep with Darvin, or the new guy, it doesn't matter as Darvin/new guy will still be in a double coverage type of scenario... you have to send 2 deep to make them have to make a choice otherwise your safety just plays over the top until he sees where the play is going...

but more over, why keep going out and bringing in these guys with sub 4.5 speed and height and then play them in the box... you know as well as I that these tall speedy receiver are usually not very, or as physical as the typical possession type receiver... it hurts even more when you are asking them to run these stop routes and come backs, that's not what they're good at...

when you watch these type of guys play you don't always need as much time in the pocket as one might think... if you have these 4.4 or 4.3 guys you can just throw the ball to the open spot and have these guys out run their defender while running under the ball... now before you go all crazy on me, lol, I'm not talking about sandlot type of ball... you read all of time in draft profiles about a receivers ability to 'adjust to the ball'... not to mention, these speedy guys help QBs that have issues at times with long throw accuracy, one helps the other and vice versa...

you watch Calgary and Edmonton, they use their receivers to create these one on one scenarios and look for their guys to beat their defender deep or if they are playing off too far break the route off... just one of the reasons why their receivers seems to always be wide open... when they call the play in the huddle the QB or the receiver doesn't know exactly what route they are running until they get to the line of scrimmage and based on whether the D lines up in man or zone the routes can change, no audible, by design... 

but I do agree with what you said about those 20 play, 5 yard per play drives... I'd take those all day long and every game if you can consistently pull it off... you keep their offense off the field and allows your defense to stay fresh all game long... however, when you're in that rut and have 9 two and outs in a game it isn't going to be pretty...
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