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Author Topic: Alouettes For Sale  (Read 10533 times)
Fire101
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« on: March 13, 2019, 11:03:21 PM »

https://3downnation.com/2019/03/13/ambrosie-says-he-has-been-working-on-an-alouettes-strategy-for-months/

https://www.tsn.ca/alouettes-have-no-comment-on-reports-of-sale-of-franchise-1.1272659

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DM83
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2019, 02:12:04 AM »

Wrong guy at the GM spot, no one at QB.  They'll be gone in two,years, same with the Argos
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2019, 04:38:40 AM »

I'd say Arogs have the biggest attendance problems.  TORians just don't care.

MTL at least has a solid bunch of 40-80 year olds who have been fans forever and remember the Cavillo days fondly enough to be fans for life.

But... as for selling a club... TOR seems like the more appealing buy.  I think the potential is higher in TOR (more TV eyeballs, etc.).  But it's going to take a lot of skill and luck to turn it around.

I'd really really love to go to a MTL game at Molson one of these years... Too bad football isn't happening when F1 is there, that would be the perfect excuse.  But what's up with all those darn seagulls, like Hitchcock or something...  I'll make sure to take in a night game.
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3rdand1.5
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« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2019, 10:02:12 AM »

if attendance gets low enough in Mtrl, or they need a quick boost in attendance have back to back home games against Cal. and Edm. and name Butts, and Trudeau as pre-game QB'S, and give oppossing fans a chance to "sack the QB"......Could fill the big O with Western CDN's...lol
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2019, 01:38:45 PM »

Wrong guy at the GM spot, no one at QB.  They'll be gone in two,years, same with the Argos

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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2019, 01:23:39 AM »

Wrong guy at the GM spot, no one at QB.  They'll be gone in two,years, same with the Argos

typical rant with no truth or meaning
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2019, 04:49:39 PM »

There are coaching changes almost every off season for one reason or another. I expect we may see changes going into 2020 somewhere. Where is anybody's guess. There could be movement within the CFL as promotions. Somebody might get an NFL opportunity. A team with a poor record may fire a HC or GM.

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dd
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2019, 01:30:02 AM »

BC got a new HC due to retirement , Sask because their HC went to the NFL and Montreal should get a new head coach because the dude is lost in space on the sidelines!! Between him and kavis, there is little wonder why the Als suck and will continue to suck until they fix the obvious problems at the top.
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Fire101
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2019, 09:27:58 PM »

https://www.tsn.ca/former-als-player-lapointe-says-time-is-of-the-essence-to-purchase-club-1.1275953
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DM83
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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2019, 01:19:25 AM »

Sigh!
I post something for discussion and am personally attacked.
This lack of respect is becoming so common by the same zeros who can't bother with a retort with an original thought.

What a waste of oxygen.

The AAF is similar in many respects to the CFL.  Some clubs have decent QBs others like the CFzl atrocious.
People in the two largest city have professional entertainment options.   Really would you want to spend bucks on a second class league with even worse management and players?

Then  next uear, another new /revised McMahon football league..will take  the remaining good players.  And then the CFL wants tomdomthatnballto with the C in CFL....

The mass hysteria of mommas not letting their Canadian Babies play football, Because they will all be concussed, will equate to a drop in the tackle game, and voila poof,....gone.

Ok let's hear the usual name calling, because original thought can not occur with you.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2019, 04:09:04 AM »

Sigh!
I post something for discussion and am personally attacked.
This lack of respect is becoming so common by the same zeros who can't bother with a retort with an original thought.

What a waste of oxygen.

The AAF is similar in many respects to the CFL.  Some clubs have decent QBs others like the CFzl atrocious.
People in the two largest city have professional entertainment options.   Really would you want to spend bucks on a second class league with even worse management and players?

Then  next uear, another new /revised McMahon football league..will take  the remaining good players.  And then the CFL wants tomdomthatnballto with the C in CFL....

The mass hysteria of mommas not letting their Canadian Babies play football, Because they will all be concussed, will equate to a drop in the tackle game, and voila poof,....gone.

Hehe, bad night, eh?  I get that feeling sometimes when on the forum... It's a tough crowd.  Maybe they are all ornery from the gazillion year GC drought?  Who knows.

You bring up a good point.  It's weird, I've never in my life thought of the CFL as "2nd class".  I know many TOR & VAN citizens think that.  But I just don't get it.  I was privileged to get to go to a couple BB games a year with my dad during my childhood, and I thought of the CFL as no greater/lesser than the odd MLB game I got to go to as a kid, or the odd Jets game.  Of course, the AAF is by definition 2nd class (to the NFL), but it still might work out for them if they can find a niche, and financial balance.

As an adult I can appreciate how CFL might not be as flashy as the NFL, but it's our game.  It's more our game than even the NHL is.  I find CFL far more entertaining than NFL and NHL combined.  I'd say if someone is dismissing it as 2nd rate, just tell them they're missing out and then forget them.

Another good discussion you bring up is the "C in CFL" thing.  The KW/MOS CJOB show a week ago brought that up and our guys said they were ok with it.  I'm dubious.  I won't dismiss it completely, because it's obvious Ambrosie is headstrong and unless he's canned this is probably the direction we're heading.  I bet everyone is onboard if we can get more eyeballs & revenue from foreign markets.  But it has an equal chance of being a pipe dream boondoogle, IMHO.  I definitely don't want to see some sort of ratio that mandates X Mexican players, Y Finnish players, etc., ugh.  Goal #1 is to promote Canadian football for Canadian U and HS players, and get those players on the CFL field eventually.

So I guess we're stuck with these wild Ambrosie visions, and I really hope (for all our sake) they work out.  (I unashamedly liked the last 2 commishes more.)  Either that or get a new commish in there pronto.

As for the Als (to stay on topic): I really hope they get it together or find some deep pockets.  The league really shouldn't be without the Frenchie Birds.  How did they go from the GC's galore Cavillo years to the current gutter?
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DM83
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« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2019, 11:36:13 PM »

Aaaaaggghhhhh. What a pleasure to read and think about a good forum post.  It's great to know there is intelligent life out there.

I too, grew up buying the "track"  seats from Baldy Northcotts store on Portage avenue.  I love the CFL and its players.  I know many of the alumni, and they are great interesting people.

Off the field these guys are like the average Joe, but of course their football talents are or were extremely special.

Seeing the general public in Toronto and Montreal abandon their team makes me sick. How stupid are they?
It has never been significant what league  great athletes play in.  I just love watching talent perform, and for me. Football combines many elements of entertainment.

I mean watching Matt Dunnugan throw seven? TD passes, and was it to Goodlow, or Jackson?, and was itnRod Hill with five interceptions in one game?  Sorry but that's talent in any league.

I think part of the problem in Canada's two biggest cities, is the size and time it takes to get to an event.  So when you get there  and are presented with an incredibly disrespectful product, poor management, coaching and less than the best players,....why return?  I wouldn't! 

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dd
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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2019, 07:26:16 PM »

Toronto and Vancouver are CFL cities that have failed to connect with their community, why I don?t know. I have lived in Vancouver, Regina, Calgary , Winnipeg and Toronto and TO and Vancouver couldn?t give a rip about football. I don?t know why that is. When I lived in Vancouver the lions sucked, but they?ve won GC?s as have Toronto. They just aren?t football towns, despite having strong youth/amateur programs in their communities.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2019, 07:51:56 PM »

Toronto and Vancouver are CFL cities that have failed to connect with their community, why I don?t know. I have lived in Vancouver, Regina, Calgary , Winnipeg and Toronto and TO and Vancouver couldn?t give a rip about football. I don?t know why that is. When I lived in Vancouver the lions sucked, but they?ve won GC?s as have Toronto. They just aren?t football towns, despite having strong youth/amateur programs in their communities.


I suspect it comes down to what you have for options with regards to your entertainment budget.  I don't think it's any coincidence that the city in which the CFL has (arguably) the most dedicated fan base also is the city which has the least amount of "professional" entertainment options, and with that statement I mean absolutely no disrespect to Regina, the Riders or the CFL in general.  Winnipeg, Hamilton, Edmonton, Ottawa, and Calgary have similar options and fairly dedicated fan bases, Montreal has (arguably) more options and a fan base that's solid when they're winning and non existent when they're not.  Vancouver and Toronto have about as many options as can be presented to a metropolitan area, and even with good CFL teams, they'd have a hard time competing for those dollars.
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DM83
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« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2019, 01:33:57 AM »

Seems like that Peanuts  comic of Charlie Brown,  applies, ..." I love mankind, it's people I can't stand."

I agree, obviously with the last comment.  But it also helps if there is consistent ownership, and professionals running the club, not some sponsors wife.

I hate to say it, but obviously when it's not your money you are playing with compared to a team that has ownership that is all in, makes a difference.

I take pride in our stick- to -it -ness.  But, the sometime flakey ownership of some teams, despite my dislike for them, have won way more Cups than us.

Places like Montreal,  Toronto and. Vancouver have more entertainment options, and a perceived better bang for the buck.

What if the  Valor Soccer club makes a bigger profit than the Bombers?
What if. The Mew Junior team draws,crowds,of 4000?

The publics discretionary dollar will have some more competition.
I think this may be a tipping point for the CFL with new smartly thought out US football leagues coming up, new sports franchises emerging( albeit minor league)

And really does anyone really care what league the local team plays in?
I think the AAF is extremely similar to the CFL.
Could it be.....

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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2019, 07:07:34 AM »

I think the AAF is extremely similar to the CFL.
Could it be.....

Bite your tongue!!  If you're implying what I think you are, I sincerely hope you're not correct!

I think we (CFL) will be ok.  Every 10 years there's these panics and fits, but it all turns out ok in the end.  Worst I can see is lose a team (MTL), gain a team (HAL).  Rinse, repeat.
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Fire101
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« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2019, 07:11:58 PM »

https://www.tsn.ca/cfl-could-buy-alouettes-sell-to-investors-1.1278771
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Fire101
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« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2019, 06:09:27 PM »

I think it's time to call Eric Lapointe.


https://3downnation.com/2019/03/28/montreal-alouettes-creditors-may-be-closing-in-report/
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 06:15:00 PM by Fire101 » Logged
Fire101
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« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2019, 06:12:21 PM »

Lapointe not in the running anymore.

https://montrealgazette.com/pmn/sports-pmn/football-sports-pmn/cfl-football-sports-pmn/eric-lapointes-group-wont-be-buying-alouettes-from-robert-wetenhall/wcm/435a589c-497e-4fb3-ac69-bcbcd34e62da

According to Herb Zurkowsky, "I will reiterate, according to my information, the Wetenhall family is out. Whether it's now or an hour from now. And the league knows it won't look good to say it's running the team. As for Eric Lapointe, indeed, he's out, regrettably. He and his group would have been good. "


Some hope concerning the Als according to Rick Moffat, "#CFL deal to buy #Als and/or operate the club until next owners are found should be in place very soon. #CFL sources tell me Wetenhall family will not sell to either mystery man Clifford Starke or #Alouettes alum Eric Lapointe."

https://twitter.com/RickMoffat?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1114195574226550788&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231114195574226550788
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 06:34:24 PM by Fire101 » Logged
Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2019, 07:19:19 PM »

Lapointe not in the running anymore.

https://montrealgazette.com/pmn/sports-pmn/football-sports-pmn/cfl-football-sports-pmn/eric-lapointes-group-wont-be-buying-alouettes-from-robert-wetenhall/wcm/435a589c-497e-4fb3-ac69-bcbcd34e62da

According to Herb Zurkowsky, "I will reiterate, according to my information, the Wetenhall family is out. Whether it's now or an hour from now. And the league knows it won't look good to say it's running the team. As for Eric Lapointe, indeed, he's out, regrettably. He and his group would have been good. "


Some hope concerning the Als according to Rick Moffat, "#CFL deal to buy #Als and/or operate the club until next owners are found should be in place very soon. #CFL sources tell me Wetenhall family will not sell to either mystery man Clifford Starke or #Alouettes alum Eric Lapointe."

https://twitter.com/RickMoffat?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1114195574226550788&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231114195574226550788

I don't get this, clearly the Wetenhall's have not run out of money and the best way to sell something is to preserve it's value, not abandon it to the league's discretion.  What the hell is going on?
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2019, 07:44:30 PM »

I understand that the complicated part is that the franchise has value that the Wetenhalls will surely want to recuperate. Aside from that, though, why isn't community ownership an option ever floated for these situations. Bombers, Riders and Esks do just fine with this model and never have to worry about owner meddling and distracting the team with threats to sell, move a franchise, etc? It seems like this would solve the problems of the CFL's troubled franchises.

Let's face it- nobody buys a team to or expects them to make them rich. A well oiled machine in this league can break even and maybe put some pennies in the rainy day fund during the good times to offset the inevitable lean times. Just my $0.02.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2019, 08:32:04 PM »

I understand that the complicated part is that the franchise has value that the Wetenhalls will surely want to recuperate. Aside from that, though, why isn't community ownership an option ever floated for these situations. Bombers, Riders and Esks do just fine with this model and never have to worry about owner meddling and distracting the team with threats to sell, move a franchise, etc? It seems like this would solve the problems of the CFL's troubled franchises.

Let's face it- nobody buys a team to or expects them to make them rich. A well oiled machine in this league can break even and maybe put some pennies in the rainy day fund during the good times to offset the inevitable lean times. Just my $0.02.

Good question, perhaps the community ownership model is a relic of the past that has not been considered as the level of community support they could currently drum up in Montreal is questionable.  Montreal has a number of "big fish" including the Bronfman and the Molson families that used to play more prominent roles in local affairs but have moved onto the global stage, so they're probably not all that interested in small potatoes.  Somebody has to want to run the team...."put your hand down Kavis".
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2019, 01:16:40 AM »

you have to believe that attendance has to be playing a big part in many minds... last year they had an average of 17,332 per game, down over 2,700 per game from 2018 and almost 8,000 from their high water marker back in 2010...

curious though about what happened back in 1997 because in 1996 they averaged 22,200 and then fell way off in 1997, all the way down to a mere 9,500... but what I'm curious about is what did they do in the next 7 years to bring attendance all the way back up to a respectable 23,879 average in 2004?

I know from what you all say that Montreal is a tough market but I would think that if they could get the numbers back up over that 20K mark, maybe a little higher, that they could be a decent investment for someone interested, community owned or otherwise...
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2019, 02:50:47 PM »

you have to believe that attendance has to be playing a big part in many minds... last year they had an average of 17,332 per game, down over 2,700 per game from 2018 and almost 8,000 from their high water marker back in 2010...

curious though about what happened back in 1997 because in 1996 they averaged 22,200 and then fell way off in 1997, all the way down to a mere 9,500... but what I'm curious about is what did they do in the next 7 years to bring attendance all the way back up to a respectable 23,879 average in 2004?

I know from what you all say that Montreal is a tough market but I would think that if they could get the numbers back up over that 20K mark, maybe a little higher, that they could be a decent investment for someone interested, community owned or otherwise...

Wetenhall purchased the Als in 1996, at that time they were playing at the "Big O" within two years they moved to Molson Stadium and attendance picked up.  It didn't hurt that Anthony Calvillo joined the club in 1998 either.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2019, 08:32:32 PM »

Wetenhall purchased the Als in 1996, at that time they were playing at the "Big O" within two years they moved to Molson Stadium and attendance picked up.  It didn't hurt that Anthony Calvillo joined the club in 1998 either.

thanks for the back story, much appreciated! It got me curious about the Alouettes so I did a little digging... I knew that there was a period of time that Montreal suspended football operations, just wasn't sure on the time frames... so it was interesting to learn that the current team was actually resurrected from one of the folded US expansion teams, the Baltimore Stallions...

I had orginally thought that the drop in attendance was due to the team being really bad, so not the case, they hit the ground running! they were 12-6 in their first season back, then 13-5. 12-5-1, 12-6, 12-6, then 9-9, but bounced back to 13-5, 13-5, and 14-4 and played in 3 Grey Cup games over that period winning 1 of them...

maybe they should have U2 come to Molson Stadium for a concert, it could jump start another growth spurt in attendance, lol...
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The Zipp
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« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2019, 04:55:38 PM »

Dan Ralph

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Just was told Clifford Starke will be issuing his release on his intent to purchase the Montreal Alouettes on Thursday instead of tomorrow. #CFL
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The Zipp
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« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2019, 04:57:08 PM »

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/football/article-montreal-businessman-clifford-starke-to-issue-intent-to-purchase/



Montreal businessman Clifford Starke will formally announce Tuesday his ?intent to purchase? the Montreal Alouettes.

Brad Smith, a former CFL receiver with the Toronto Argonauts and Edmonton Eskimos, is a consultant with Starke?s potential ownership group and says the chairman of Hampstead Private Capital is ?more than interested? in the Alouettes.

?This is not purely a business decision, it?s a passion decision,? he said. ?The guy wants the team and wants to do it for the right reasons.?

Starke, 35, has acted as a consultant, adviser and/or director to more than 15 publicly listed companies.

Smith, also 35, and Starke grew up together in Montreal in the 2000s attending Alouettes games during a time when the team was a CFL powerhouse. From 2000-2010, the franchise appeared in eight Grey Cup games, winning three.

But the addition of Smith wasn?t made just for friendship reasons. Football has long been a cornerstone of his family as his father, Larry ? currently a Conservative senator ? played nine seasons with Montreal and later twice served as club president.

After overseeing the relocation of the franchise from Baltimore following the 1996 season as CFL commissioner, Larry Smith became Alouettes president in 1997 and held that post until 2001. Smith went on to become president and publisher of the Montreal Gazette from 2002 to 2004 before returning to the Alouettes. He remained until 2010, the last time the franchise captured the Grey Cup.

?It?s one of those things where he (Starke) has been very successful in a very short amount of time,? Brad Smith said. ?And he?s chosen to want to take that success and put it into something that?s not necessarily a right-off-the-bat successful endeavour.

?You can tell this is for him something where he wants to do right not only by Montreal but for himself as a fan.?

The Alouettes have hit hard times of late. The club hasn?t been to the CFL playoffs the past four seasons and amassed a dismal 21-51 record over that span.

Last week, the CFL said American businessman Robert Wetenhall continues to own the Alouettes amid much speculation the league has assumed control of the franchise and will be tasked with finding a new owner. It appears Starke?s group is front and centre with former Als player Eric Lapointe announcing Friday his potential ownership group was no longer in the running to purchase the Montreal club.

Last month, former Montreal Canadiens defenceman Serge Savard was said to be involved in a potential Alouettes ownership group but quickly denied any such involvement. The eight-time Stanley Cup champion added he was part of a group that once was interested in buying the Alouettes during Larry Smith?s tenure as president, but nothing came of it.

The CFL did not immediately respond for comment to an interview request on Monday.

?We want this to be taken seriously, we want to be vetted as a buyer,? said Brad Smith, who owns two restaurants in Toronto and in ?15 became a host of ?Chopped Canada? on Food Network. ?We understand we?re not the Serge Savards and Eric Lapointes yet there?s too much mystery going on right now with what?s happening.

?And the fans, most importantly, deserve to know what?s going on with their team. It?s the intent of Mr. Starke and his business partners to really understand where this process is. We just want to let people know Mr. Starke and his business partners are very serious about taking the steps in order to see if this is feasible because if there?s anybody who can do this feasibly it?s them.?

?Here?s one of the league?s flagship franchises in trouble and there are people who want to help so why don?t you let us help them??

Wetenhall has owned the Alouettes for more than 20 years. He resurrected the franchise in 1997 after it was revoked from Michael Gelfand and declared bankruptcy. Wetenhall also assumed the organization?s debts despite not legally being obligated to do so.

Early in Wetenhall?s tenure, the Alouettes were a model franchise. From 1999 to 2012, they finished atop the East Division nine times and making the eight Grey Cup appearances.

Wetenhall was a former part-owner of the Boston Patriots (AFL) and New England Patriots (NFL). In 2011, he received an honorary Doctor of Laws degree from McGill University for his work with the Alouettes and expansion of Percival Molson Stadium.

Wetenhall was inducted into the Canadian Football Hall of Fame in 2015.

RELATED
Group headed by former player Eric Lapointe won?t be buying Alouettes from Robert Wetenhall

Six-time CFL all-star Jovan Olafioye retires

Argonauts to play Alouettes in exhibition game at Varsity Stadium





 
   
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GCn19
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« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2019, 05:13:58 PM »

LOL...When I first read the article I read it as Tony Stark for some reason, about two sentences in I was like holy moly Iron Man is buying the Als.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2019, 06:33:50 PM »

LOL...When I first read the article I read it as Tony Stark for some reason, about two sentences in I was like holy moly Iron Man is buying the Als.

No... he's using money he borrowed from he Lanisters to buy it.  Hope he doesn't lose an arm and a leg doing it... or a head.   He should have seen the guys at the Iron Bank...
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2019, 04:25:11 AM »

LOL...When I first read the article I read it as Tony Stark for some reason, about two sentences in I was like holy moly Iron Man is buying the Als.
lol or Howard Stark (Iron Mans Dad). I saw the name Marvel immediately came to mind.

Good to hear it?s local ownership. Hopefully with proper community maneuvers he can make successful again.
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DM83
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« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2019, 11:20:07 AM »

Reality boys!  Anyone want to talk about reality?

Would anyone in their right mind buy a CFL franchise? especially in a market that has repeatedly told you to drop dead?

Look at the definition for marketing.  It involves words like "supplying a product the public wants."  Hence the question, is it wise to invest in a football franchise? Well, look at the AAF.m even in a traditional football market like the various US cities, with a credible management group, it's gone after  8 weeks.

Mintreal and Toronto have too many options for the entertainment dollars.  Personally attending a game from the suburbs to the stadiums, is,prohibitive. When that involves an hour at least each way and a 3 hour game, that's a long time out of your day.

Just not doable unless there is a good product.
No QB, Kavis Reed?  Really? Toronto?  Who is involved with that franchise ?

This ain't your Papas CFL. 
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2019, 02:09:01 PM »

A product the public wants? LOL

I read on MSN that a company has made $3M for selling cans of " air ". In the past companies have made fortunes selling " pet rocks " or some other silly fad.

In any case I think you're being a little hard / negative about the Als. Not every person / business entity gets involved in acquiring a sports team does so with the expectation of making a lot of money. There has been interest in acquiring the Montreal franchise. There has been interest in a franchise in the NS.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 02:36:35 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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booch
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« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2019, 04:08:10 PM »

Thing is it can and was successful in Montreal...but the circus running things lately, and the poor on field product of late has soured the fans and they have been getting just 15-18k consistently....a move to local ownership...proper marketing to the area and an improved squad, Montreal will be fine again...
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theaardvark
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« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2019, 07:48:18 PM »

So, if there is new ownership, do they get to houseclean the front office without SMS penalty?  I'd give them that free pass if they wanted, tough to get a new team and get saddled with ALL the bad decisions...
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Fire101
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« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2019, 08:10:02 PM »

Clifford Starke confirms intention.


https://3downnation.com/2019/04/11/clifford-starke-confirms-intention-to-purchase-the-alouettes/
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Fire101
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« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2019, 05:13:44 PM »

According to Herb Zurkowsky's twitter account,

"Tuesday #AlsMTL update: It's my understanding Clifford Starke and his group have become the front-runners to purchase the team - simply because they're willing absorb the enormous losses that have been accrued over the last several seasons."



https://twitter.com/HerbZurkowsky1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1118199790804832256&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231118199790804832256
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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2019, 02:50:25 AM »

Everything goes in cycles.  Montreal will figure it out and so will Toronto.
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BLUEBOMBER
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« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2019, 03:29:28 AM »

Clearly the CFL cannot afford to pay it's players the amount of money (no matter how little it is now).  The TV contract means money for the teams but it also kills fan interest.  There is nothing like going to a game and sitting there and absorbing the atmosphere.  If you sit at home and watch it on tv, there is so much more to watch on tv.  Sooner or later, people will lose interest.
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DM83
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« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2019, 11:11:40 AM »

Losing interest in sports teams is already happening.
Winnioeg,has a lot of challenges
The electronic media has killed live entertainment
People have a lot more options, that are cheaper and more convenient.

Getting to a downtown location in some of the mega cities has to be impractical. Physically there is just too much traffic.

Obviously having a decent team helps, but even then Toronto still doesn't draw, because in my opinion, getting to Skydome or BMO is a long drive.( As a single guy who likes football,  going to a Toronto game could be fun, if you are meeting the gang downtown and  Having drinks and dinner. It's doable.  But is it worth your time?(BMO while being blocks away, is stil only a five dollar cab ride)

In the West, while the stadiums are in the burbs, getting there isn't such a problem.

Televised games, and other events are viable options to a bad football team.
Watching lousy players, who in some cases are overpaid goofs( Manzeil) is just plain stupid.  That guy is like a bad rash. He just won't go away.

Montreal doesn't have a solid management group. Should a new owner come in, would they want. The current group?  And as the season is in the verge of starting, who is paying the bills?
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2019, 12:19:14 PM »

I think you're applying a Winnipeg filter to big city traffic. As long as the stadium's are on a transit line like sky train, folks can get there if they want to. I used to leave my car in Surrey. I'd be on the train back to Surrey in less than 10 minutes after games. About the same as taking the train home after work.
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2019, 01:27:37 AM »

I think you're applying a Winnipeg filter to big city traffic. As long as the stadium's are on a transit line like sky train, folks can get there if they want to. I used to leave my car in Surrey. I'd be on the train back to Surrey in less than 10 minutes after games. About the same as taking the train home after work.

The Winnipeg filter being you have to drive everywhere. If you live in a big city and are forced to and used to surrendering your car, then yes, taking public transportation will certainly be faster than driving in big city traffic.
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DM83
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« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2019, 12:27:34 AM »

Great point. 
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« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2019, 03:05:49 PM »

Latest news on the sale of the Alouettes:

https://3downnation.com/2019/04/29/cfl-leaning-towards-selling-alouettes-to-group-involving-montreal-businessman-stephen-bronfman/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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Fire101
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« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2019, 07:58:21 PM »

Rarely a dull moment with this franchise


https://3downnation.com/2019/05/16/montreal-entrepreneur-vince-guzzo-spotted-with-cfl-commissioner-randy-ambrosie/

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Fire101
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« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2019, 01:20:10 AM »

Vince Guzzo ...

https://3downnation.com/2019/05/22/cfl-board-of-governors-approves-alouettes-sale-to-vince-guzzo-led-group/
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 01:26:50 AM by Fire101 » Logged
DM83
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« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2019, 03:47:20 AM »

Wel this thread Is a great waste of time..
Sale of. Alouettes.?  Lol?  Like I said, who would be that stupid to buy that dead duck idea.

Just watch an announcement they are going on Hiatus for a year.  Or are you and I going to pay them, like we did the Argos for so. Many years ago.
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Fire101
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« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2019, 05:39:08 PM »

Wel this thread Is a great waste of time..
Sale of. Alouettes.?  Lol?  Like I said, who would be that stupid to buy that dead duck idea.

Just watch an announcement they are going on Hiatus for a year.  Or are you and I going to pay them, like we did the Argos for so. Many years ago.

Too late, according to this article the league is already paying the bills.


https://www.tsn.ca/cfl-wants-guzzo-as-next-owner-of-alouettes-1.1311006

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DM83
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« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2019, 08:24:02 PM »

That's. Kind of a fricken joke don't you think?
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Fire101
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« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2019, 08:40:37 PM »

I agree the situation is bad, but the league cannot and won't allow the franchise to dissolve. For this league to grow revenues nationally they need ten franchises, and it seems like the Atlantic team is very close to fruition.  Hopefully the league can resolve this ownership issue ASAP.
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DM83
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« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2019, 08:47:39 PM »

Yes that is an old argument.....did you know at one time Montreal didn't have a team?  And the CFL,survived.
If Regina. Can sell 30,000 why couldn't Quenec City?
If the acceptable "standard" is. Torontos , 10,000,"or 7,000 certainly even Fort McMurray could,do that.

It seems like most people think football and. Th Alouettes are not worth it.
Time to sell it for $1.00.  Remember when that happened?

Can Toronto be far behind?

While I idealistically agree that Canada needs Gorontoto and Montreal in The CFL, or the world as we know it will,cease to exist, reality suggests otherwise.

Who will buy the Alouettes"?
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PurpleReign
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« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2019, 09:18:59 PM »

Never understood the CFL.  They could have had a very successful franchise in Atlantic Canada where people are dying to see a CFL team and they waited this long.  SMH.
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Fire101
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« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2019, 09:29:17 PM »

It's all about ownership who care about the team and the league. When Larry Smith was president of the Als the team sold out, and was able to secure funding to expand their stadium. In the papers he's quoted as saying, that he used to go door to door to sell season tickets, he used to attend breakfast meetings with the community and businesses.  Ottawa used to be a joke for a long time but the new ownership group has invested in the community and they are doing well. B.C. did poorly, but then they hired Bob Ackles and things got better, unfortunately since he passed away the team is struggling.

What I'm trying to say is that all of the markets can do well, including Toronto. But you need ownership (preferably local) who care about the league. Vince Guzzo is local and seems passionate about the team.
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DM83
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« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2019, 11:19:31 PM »

Yes that used to be a solution.
No offence to Guzzo, but he doesn't seem to have deep enough pockets, unless he has The. Old Montreal connections

But imagine with the GM or whoever getting off their ***.  But then again  they still have Kavis Reed who isn't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer

Again who is their star players?  Uh huh! Naughta. Or Momsieur NON!
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« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2019, 04:19:00 AM »

I am surprised that Montreal can't make money. They play out of a university stadium, and they are a big market compared to cities like Ham, Wpg, and Sask.  I believe that with the right ownership and other cost savings they can in doubt survive and prosper.  If Wpg and Edm can each make 2 to 3 million a season, there is no reason why Montreal can't.
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bluebeard
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« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2019, 06:37:03 PM »

Never understood the CFL.  They could have had a very successful franchise in Atlantic Canada where people are dying to see a CFL team and they waited this long.  SMH.
[/quote)
Not so sure of that.  The last time I read anything about the future Halifax team, they had sold five thousand advanced season tickets and still had no stadium even though they had down sized their expectations on what the stadium should look like.  Remember, the people pushing for this team are outsiders and not any Halifax or Maritime financiers. City or Provincial politicians will not put money into it.
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DM83
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« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2019, 03:29:34 AM »

Lol.
Well no one appears stupid enough to purchase the ALS.
Poor players, no marquee players, a dumb GM, I doubt they control the stadium revenue streams

It ain't them fifties anymore. 

I think if they had stars they would be fair.  Give the. Fans something,or someone. To cheer about, and the fans come out.  But don't insult the fans.
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Fire101
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« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2019, 04:44:28 PM »

Guzzo put's interest in Als on hold


https://www.tsn.ca/vince-guzzo-putting-interest-in-buying-montreal-alouettes-on-hold-1.1312305
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BLUEBOMBER
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« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2019, 03:40:26 PM »

Still can't imagine a city with so many millionaires can't even find one that will take control of the Al's to bring them back to glory.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2019, 04:16:32 PM »

Still can't imagine a city with so many millionaires can't even find one that will take control of the Al's to bring them back to glory.

Most millionaires don't like losing money.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2019, 05:09:13 PM »

Most millionaires don't like losing money.

The Als lost 12.5 million dollars last year alone, finding a buyer for them could be more difficult than anyone imagined. 

https://3downnation.com/2019/05/28/alouettes-lost-over-12-million-in-2018-report/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I'm afraid this could be the beginning of the end for them.
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Blue In Edmonton
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« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2019, 05:18:43 PM »

Like all things that are quaint and cool, they remain so until they are no longer quaint and cool.

Some here will remember the ownership debacles of the early 80s that included Vince Ferragamo (Johnny Manziel 1.0?), the changing of the name to the Concordes, and playing in front of 60000 people dressed as empty seats.

Well, this is where they are now. The team is awful. They are poorly run. They have fallen off from a period of sustained success and can't even remotely get close to returning to that. What was quaint and cool is no longer so in Montreal. The stadium is hard to get to with lousy parking, uncomfortable seats, and zero modern amenities.

Their best bet may be to move to Quebec City.

The CFL has survived with 8 teams before, and I suspect that this is where they are headed. Halifax is a pipe dream. I am well-connected to some who are well-connected in Halifax. They laugh when I mention the CFL. They firmly believe that it's not happening. If this contraction does happen, can we just make sure that the Bombers are still good when they head back to the East!
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Fire101
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« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2019, 05:21:09 PM »

The only way to save this franchise is to simply give them away for free.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2019, 05:38:28 PM »

The only way to save this franchise is to simply give them away for free.

Problem is they're not really free, the new owners have to assume they are going to lose aprox. $12.5 million in their first year of operation.
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Fire101
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« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2019, 05:43:52 PM »

Then the league may have to offer some percentage of debt absorption to the new/prospective owners. To make things worse is the Alouettes don't have their own stadium (McGill) or practice facility (Olympic Stadium).


https://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/naylor-you-are-buying-a-license-to-lose-money-1.1312373
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 06:17:29 PM by Fire101 » Logged
Jesse
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« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2019, 06:23:54 PM »

How is it even possible to lose 12 million in a single season?
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GCn19
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« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2019, 06:31:54 PM »

How is it even possible to lose 12 million in a single season?

Must be a whopper of a lease they pay to McGill.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2019, 06:35:22 PM »

How is it even possible to lose 12 million in a single season?

If that number is true it is a little hard to imagine. The salary cap was $5.2M. The operations cap is $2.58M. I know they did a rebrand which probably wasn't cheap and I'm not sure how their stadium agreement works but did nobody actually pay for a ticket last year? I think the TV deal is worth $40M with each team receiving $4.4M a year.
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2019, 07:06:04 PM »

Also, isn't Kavis paying the team to keep his job?
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2019, 08:35:23 PM »

If this contraction does happen, can we just make sure that the Bombers are still good when they head back to the East!

While I would prefer the CFL has as many viable teams as possible, I would not object to the Bombers being back in the East, sooner rather than later.
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Blue In Edmonton
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« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2019, 09:33:24 PM »

While I would prefer the CFL has as many viable teams as possible, I would not object to the Bombers being back in the East, sooner rather than later.

This is the absolute key. I don't want to go back to the days of the league (other teams) propping up the struggling franchises (and their private owners). Nine teams affords the league some cushion. They have demonstrated that they can survive and even thrive with eight teams. A seven-team league would probably not happen. The league would go down at that point.

With Montreal tenuous at this point, I think it is incumbent on the league to ensure that if they enter the Halifax market, that they do so properly, with an eye to long-term success and not just the quick excitement that it would bring. If Halifax craters, I think they should really look at Quebec City. It would help the Montreal situation, and they have a history of supporting CIS football like nowhere else in Canada. To me, it's a much better market than Halifax.
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DM83
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« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2019, 10:38:02 PM »

No one wants to prop up those eastern teams.
It's Just a joke.
Where are the Molsons? 
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the paw
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« Reply #71 on: May 29, 2019, 12:55:41 AM »

If that number is true it is a little hard to imagine. The salary cap was $5.2M. The operations cap is $2.58M. I know they did a rebrand which probably wasn't cheap and I'm not sure how their stadium agreement works but did nobody actually pay for a ticket last year? I think the TV deal is worth $40M with each team receiving $4.4M a year.

Bombers have operating expenses of $30 million before their stadium payment. They got the 4.4M from TV, about $12m from game revenue (tickets).  They get almost $16m from WFC revenue, which includes concessions, merchandise, and sponsorships.

Given their attendance, it isn?t hard to believe the Als could be 3 or 4 million short on tickets, and a corresponding shortfall in merchandise and sponsorships.

What?s more galling is that these captains of industry, with all their private sector efficiency, have also inflated costs at the same time.  Not sure how much of that is due to game of musical coaches, but you can certainly see that this was likely the impetus for the new ops cap.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2019, 04:58:22 AM »

The stadium is hard to get to with lousy parking, uncomfortable seats, and zero modern amenities.

Isn't Moslon Stadium / campus super easy to get to via MTL Metro (subway)?  When I'm in MTL, all I take is the subway.  Parking isn't as big a deal in a city with a real subway, and a stop nearby.

If this contraction does happen, can we just make sure that the Bombers are still good when they head back to the East!

Oh I would love to see WPG back in the E!  We'd clean up every year.  Maybe that's what's required to get those E slackers to up their game a bit.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #73 on: May 29, 2019, 02:18:55 PM »

Most millionaires don't like losing money.

But Billionaires don't mind losing tax write off millions if they get to play bigshot franchise owner...
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Blue In Edmonton
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« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2019, 04:13:49 PM »

Isn't Moslon Stadium / campus super easy to get to via MTL Metro (subway)?  When I'm in MTL, all I take is the subway.  Parking isn't as big a deal in a city with a real subway, and a stop nearby.

Oh I would love to see WPG back in the E!  We'd clean up every year.  Maybe that's what's required to get those E slackers to up their game a bit.


I had a car when I went to a game in Montreal. Parking was atrocious. I quite literally had to walk uphill both ways. I don't do well with that.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2019, 07:16:18 PM »

But Billionaires don't mind losing tax write off millions if they get to play bigshot franchise owner...

Where to begin.......
1) ?Bigshot Franchise Owner? - phrase never associated with any CFL team, ever
2) Billionaires also don?t get there by throwing money away
3) If you had billions and wanted to be a team, the CFL is not likely first, second, or third choice.  Last megabucks guy who wanted to buy a CFL team was Vince McMahon, and he would only do that if he was able to buy the entire league
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theaardvark
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« Reply #76 on: May 29, 2019, 07:33:08 PM »

Where to begin.......
1) ?Bigshot Franchise Owner? - phrase never associated with any CFL team, ever
2) Billionaires also don?t get there by throwing money away
3) If you had billions and wanted to be a team, the CFL is not likely first, second, or third choice.  Last megabucks guy who wanted to buy a CFL team was Vince McMahon, and he would only do that if he was able to buy the entire league

Really?  Ric guys don't make vanity purchases?  I'm not talking about a LA movie tycoon deciding to by a Kweebek football team.  I'm talking about a local guy swooping in to save the franchise..   like Gretzky/Candy, Braley, Young, Braley...  and these guys also think they can take over a company at a depressed price and turn it around..
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #77 on: May 29, 2019, 07:45:04 PM »

Sorry, I thought when you said Billionaires you actually meant Billionaires.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #78 on: May 29, 2019, 07:51:48 PM »

Sorry, I thought when you said Billionaires you actually meant Billionaires.

lol... there are a lot of billionaires in Montreal, and lots of hundred millionaires...

It is weird that they can't get Molsons to buy it...   as "philanthopy"...
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DM83
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« Reply #79 on: May 30, 2019, 02:44:36 AM »

Walking up hill,to the game and back?
Hmm when you were a kid, did your parents tell you they had to walk five miles to and from school in winter with five feet deep snow banks. lol!

Yeah where is Celine Dion ?  She could probably buy it.
Or the owners of Cirq de Soleil

Who,else is rich out there?
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BLUEBOMBER
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« Reply #80 on: May 30, 2019, 04:14:53 AM »

Certainly a team like the Al's can make money.. if they can't then the CFL is doomed in cities like Halifax.
 
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blueandgoldguy
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« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2019, 10:46:24 PM »

How is it even possible to lose 12 million in a single season?

Part of it could be people on the payroll who shouldn't be like Wettenhall family members who don't actually do anything.  Also interest on the existing accumulated debt might be well over a million per year.  Even subtracting those 2 things might mean the team still lost $8 - $10 million last year.  Let's not forget their ticket and corporate base is shallow at this point.
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Blue In Edmonton
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« Reply #82 on: May 31, 2019, 02:10:23 AM »

Walking up hill,to the game and back?
Hmm when you were a kid, did your parents tell you they had to walk five miles to and from school in winter with five feet deep snow banks. lol!

Yeah where is Celine Dion ?  She could probably buy it.
Or the owners of Cirq de Soleil

Who,else is rich out there?

When there's a hill between the parking lot and the stadium, you walk uphill (and downhill) both ways.

Some of the posts here are rich. Extremely rich.
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #83 on: May 31, 2019, 03:20:12 AM »

When there's a hill between the parking lot and the stadium, you walk uphill (and downhill) both ways.

Some of the posts here are rich. Extremely rich.

Welcome to the forum.
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Fire101
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« Reply #84 on: May 31, 2019, 10:03:13 PM »

It's official, the league now owns the Alouettes.


https://www.cfl.ca/2019/05/31/cfl-alouettes-issue-statement-regarding-ownership/

With the Wettenhalls out of the way, it should be easier to sell the team.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 10:11:30 PM by Fire101 » Logged
Blue In BC
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« Reply #85 on: May 31, 2019, 10:15:21 PM »

It's official, the league now owns the Alouettes.


https://www.cfl.ca/2019/05/31/cfl-alouettes-issue-statement-regarding-ownership/

With the Wettenhalls out of the way, it should be easier to sell the team.



I don't know how that makes it easier to sell the team. The Lions have been for sale for several years.

Have to believe the sale to the CFL was essentially for a nominal amount and that the Wettenhalls are responsible for most of the debt.

Not a great situation for Montreal or the rest of the league.
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Fire101
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« Reply #86 on: May 31, 2019, 10:27:01 PM »

I don't know how that makes it easier to sell the team. The Lions have been for sale for several years.

Have to believe the sale to the CFL was essentially for a nominal amount and that the Wettenhalls are responsible for most of the debt.

Not a great situation for Montreal or the rest of the league.

My point exactly, to buy the Lions the prospective owner has to go through David Braley. It was a lot of work to get him to sell the Argos to Larry Tannenbaum and then subsequently MLSE. Back in 2014 a sale to MLSE and a move to BMO was in the works and fell off the rails. Money always plays a part but the bigger issue was a clash in personalities (David Braley).

If the Wettenhalls are responsible for most of the debt that they incurred over the years  than that is great news for the new/prospective owners. They get a clean slate. 
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 10:31:08 PM by Fire101 » Logged
Blue In BC
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« Reply #87 on: May 31, 2019, 10:47:50 PM »

My point exactly, to buy the Lions the prospective owner has to go through David Braley. It was a lot of work to get him to sell the Argos to Larry Tannenbaum and then subsequently MLSE. Back in 2014 a sale to MLSE and a move to BMO was in the works and fell off the rails. Money always plays a part but the bigger issue was a clash in personalities (David Braley).

If the Wettenhalls are responsible for most of the debt that they incurred over the years  than that is great news for the new/prospective owners. They get a clean slate. 


I should have said I hope the Wettenhalls are responsible for the bulk of the debt. I don't know that is the case.

Selling the Lions is a business transaction. The specific owner isn't an issue unless he values the franchise for more than the market place perceives.  I think you're over thinking any clash with Braley regarding the sale of the Argos.

The real issue with selling a CFL team is that it's not a license to print money and an owner might need to lose significant money.

Just my opinion though.

If the Als are not sold shortly I don't know whether the team will exist in 2020 and that would be unfortunate.

Perhaps we can make an interim sale to form the Atlantic team as part of that eventuality. Let them play in Montreal until they have a new stadium ready to go. Could forgo any significant franchise fee if they absorb current 2019 - 2020 operating costs as the trade offs?
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buckzumhoff
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« Reply #88 on: June 01, 2019, 11:49:55 AM »

Theres lots of companies in Quebec who should step up. Especially Labattes who advertise and sell beer during the game . Buying a football team for a large corporation should be easy decision. its a tax break.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #89 on: June 01, 2019, 01:13:54 PM »

I should have said I hope the Wettenhalls are responsible for the bulk of the debt. I don't know that is the case.

Selling the Lions is a business transaction. The specific owner isn't an issue unless he values the franchise for more than the market place perceives.  I think you're over thinking any clash with Braley regarding the sale of the Argos.

The real issue with selling a CFL team is that it's not a license to print money and an owner might need to lose significant money.

Just my opinion though.

If the Als are not sold shortly I don't know whether the team will exist in 2020 and that would be unfortunate.

Perhaps we can make an interim sale to form the Atlantic team as part of that eventuality. Let them play in Montreal until they have a new stadium ready to go. Could forgo any significant franchise fee if they absorb current 2019 - 2020 operating costs as the trade offs?

Not a half bad idea, it would give the management team some assets to work with, provide on the job training and put them in a better position when they move to E. coast.  With this announcement I have the sinking feeling the league will be lucky if they can maintain 9 franchises into the future.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #90 on: June 01, 2019, 01:39:45 PM »

Not a half bad idea, it would give the management team some assets to work with, provide on the job training and put them in a better position when they move to E. coast.  With this announcement I have the sinking feeling the league will be lucky if they can maintain 9 franchises into the future.

I hope they find a way to keep the Als afloat. I can't see that beyond 2019 if a new owner is not found.

Fingers are crossed this is worked out soon otherwise it's a financial drain to the rest of the league.
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Fire101
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« Reply #91 on: June 01, 2019, 03:53:36 PM »

I hope they find a way to keep the Als afloat. I can't see that beyond 2019 if a new owner is not found.

Fingers are crossed this is worked out soon otherwise it's a financial drain to the rest of the league.

It is absolutely imperative that they find an owner and keep the Als franchise alive, this is a watershed moment for commissioner Ambroise.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #92 on: June 01, 2019, 05:30:49 PM »

this may be a tough sell... I guess it depends on what the selling price is as well, or the estimated value of the team... I know it's hard to say what it's worth without seeing financials statements, but, I've read the team lost over $12M last year and over $25M over the last 3 years... not to mention there is the suggestion that the team owes money to vendor/suppliers as well...

I'm not really sure what they are doing to lose that kind of money, but that's will have to be addressed some how... if you considered the annual loss, plus the payables, and I would assume that there isn't any cash surplus to go with the team, lol, the asking price has to be pretty low...

I would assume that when they said the CFL now owns the team that this means they got it for free and will begin paying the bills from this point forward... this could also effect the remaining 8 other teams as well... if the league doesn't have the money to cover their expenses the rest of the teams will have to come up with it...

I came across an article where it was reported that a potential buyer group for the BC Lions offered them $14M for the team, which was declined...

maybe the best bet would be to move the team to Halifax...

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Blue In BC
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« Reply #93 on: June 01, 2019, 05:56:55 PM »

We haven't really heard whether the Wettenhalls will be responsible for debt to suppliers. I don't know how they could avoid that and I don't see the CFL absorbing that debt either.

I assume the CFL got the team for a $1 so to speak.

How any team could lose as much in 1 year or 3 as reported seems inconceivable. It has been mentioned that the other 8 teams would be paying to keep the Als in operation.

Selling the team to Atlantic Canada seems a better option that just losing our 9th team. With no stadium or commitment quite yet and no owners group yet, makes that a stretch at the moment.

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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #94 on: June 01, 2019, 11:10:39 PM »

We haven't really heard whether the Wettenhalls will be responsible for debt to suppliers. I don't know how they could avoid that and I don't see the CFL absorbing that debt either.

Well, if the Als organization doesn't officially declare bankruptcy, the debt won't just disappear.  So if the CFL "took over" the Als, then, unless they have something else in writing, the CFL will have to pay all the debt.  The only way to avoid that would be to have it go bankrupt, then instantly restart it as a new shell company.  But then you're looking at redoing every contract, etc.  I doubt that happened.

In that case, the previous owners could make out like bandits (and create a future moral hazard) because they can take big salaries / profits / equity out, while not paying suppliers and racking up debts, then just leave it all for the CFL to clean up and make off scot-free.  Kind of like LBO companies in the states can strip-mine struggling companies before leaving the bagholders with huge unpaid debts.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #95 on: June 01, 2019, 11:22:19 PM »

Well, if the Als organization doesn't officially declare bankruptcy, the debt won't just disappear.  So if the CFL "took over" the Als, then, unless they have something else in writing, the CFL will have to pay all the debt.  The only way to avoid that would be to have it go bankrupt, then instantly restart it as a new shell company.  But then you're looking at redoing every contract, etc.  I doubt that happened.

In that case, the previous owners could make out like bandits (and create a future moral hazard) because they can take big salaries / profits / equity out, while not paying suppliers and racking up debts, then just leave it all for the CFL to clean up and make off scot-free.  Kind of like LBO companies in the states can strip-mine struggling companies before leaving the bagholders with huge unpaid debts.


We probably won't hear what was in the deal to take over the Als by the CFL. I'd expect the league might be responsible for some portion of the debt while getting the franchise for next to nothing.

OTOH, the Wettenhalls may have surrendered the franchise for nothing just in order to not create additional debt in 2019.

This could go any number of ways but none of the possibilities sound great for the CFL IMO.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #96 on: June 02, 2019, 01:51:19 AM »

there would be a huge upside for Halifax/owner group if they were to buy the Alouettes and move them instead of starting from scratch.... they would save the $7M-$10M franchise fee that the league would charge them for an expansion franchise...

depending on what kind of financial shape the team is actually in, it could be a bargain for them...
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DM83
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« Reply #97 on: June 02, 2019, 05:17:16 AM »

-$ 22 million and counting to start.
Who's in?
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buckzumhoff
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« Reply #98 on: June 02, 2019, 02:04:01 PM »

Looks like the owners paid themselves a salary and left the team on the hook. Every CFL team has the same costs but privately owned teams charged fees or salaries. It looks like they are in the hole but its the previous owners who have the money. Or is it for stadium renovations. It should be a total write off. Write off the loan . yhats the problem with private ownership. No accountability.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #99 on: June 02, 2019, 07:01:02 PM »

I should clarify... I didn't mean to imply that the Wettenhalls hadn't paid their bills and have left their business 'partners' holding the bag...

I have no reason to believe they would do so... what I meant is that given the types of losses the team has incurred over the last few seasons that it would indicate that the team has little or no working capital and or cash reserves to support the day to day operations of the team...

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BLUEBOMBER
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« Reply #100 on: June 03, 2019, 05:02:56 AM »

It's clear that unless good ownership is found, the CFL should not just hand over the Al's to anyone.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #101 on: June 03, 2019, 06:18:52 AM »

It's clear that unless good ownership is found, the CFL should not just hand over the Al's to anyone.

true... I know that Montreal struggles with attendance, but when you compare that to the Bombers you really have to wonder what the heck was going on in Montreal... for instance, Montreal was still able to average almost 20,000 fans per game, Winnipeg almost 24,000 per game... Montreal loses $12M last year, Bombers make almost $3M if I remember correctly...

I can't imagine that 4,000 more paying fans per game over the 9 home games during the year would make a $15M dollar difference in the bottom line, lol... maybe they should require potential buyers to pass some sort of test before allowing them to buy the team...  Grin
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the paw
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« Reply #102 on: June 03, 2019, 01:57:03 PM »

true... I know that Montreal struggles with attendance, but when you compare that to the Bombers you really have to wonder what the heck was going on in Montreal... for instance, Montreal was still able to average almost 20,000 fans per game, Winnipeg almost 24,000 per game... Montreal loses $12M last year, Bombers make almost $3M if I remember correctly...

I can't imagine that 4,000 more paying fans per game over the 9 home games during the year would make a $15M dollar difference in the bottom line, lol... maybe they should require potential buyers to pass some sort of test before allowing them to buy the team...  Grin

2018, Als averaged 17,000 per game.  Bombers averages just under 27,000.  Assuming comparable ticket prices, that's about a $3.5 million revenue difference.  Another $2.5 m can be attributed to lack of sponsorship and merchandise sales, which might do better under local ownership.

The stories say that about $6 million was attributable to falling revenues.  Another $6 million was put down to rising costs, and while I have no evidence, the buyout package for Popp and several coaches probably contributed heavily to this.   
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theaardvark
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« Reply #103 on: June 03, 2019, 02:43:39 PM »

How much of the $22 mil is held by the Wettenhalls and armsreach organizations?  That should be written off immediately...

Maybe floating the idea of moving the franchise to Halifax might energize the base into supporting the team.  And bring in a savy business person to turn around the finances...
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the paw
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« Reply #104 on: June 03, 2019, 03:01:10 PM »

How much of the $22 mil is held by the Wettenhalls and armsreach organizations?  That should be written off immediately...

Maybe floating the idea of moving the franchise to Halifax might energize the base into supporting the team.  And bring in a savy business person to turn around the finances...

The cumulative losses may or may not be represented by existing debt.  It is entirely possible that those losses were financed by cash injections by the Wetenhalls, which they have gotten tired of making.  It is unlikely that many lenders would have advanced that kind of cash without security, and given that they don't own their stadium, any existing debt is likely in the form of accounts payable with various suppliers. 

Moving to Halifax is exactly the wrong move.  They don't have a stadium, they don't have a demonstrated demand for attendance higher than the 17,000 the Als did last year in Montreal, and floating the idea of moving will send 2019 attendance into the tank. 
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theaardvark
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« Reply #105 on: June 03, 2019, 04:50:54 PM »

The cumulative losses may or may not be represented by existing debt.  It is entirely possible that those losses were financed by cash injections by the Wetenhalls, which they have gotten tired of making.  It is unlikely that many lenders would have advanced that kind of cash without security, and given that they don't own their stadium, any existing debt is likely in the form of accounts payable with various suppliers. 

Moving to Halifax is exactly the wrong move.  They don't have a stadium, they don't have a demonstrated demand for attendance higher than the 17,000 the Als did last year in Montreal, and floating the idea of moving will send 2019 attendance into the tank. 

If floating the idea of moving sends attendance into the tank, then they should shut it down anyways... if the city's denziends want a CFL team, they need to come to the stadium...
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #106 on: June 03, 2019, 06:00:14 PM »

If floating the idea of moving sends attendance into the tank, then they should shut it down anyways... if the city's denziends want a CFL team, they need to come to the stadium...

It's shameful how the Eastern media is ballyhooing the Raptors playoff run as the greatest thing ever, but can't be bothered to draw any attention to their struggling CFL teams.
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BLUEBOMBER
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« Reply #107 on: June 04, 2019, 07:02:08 PM »

Halifax is a relatively small market but small markets seem to be doing fine.  It's the big markets that are struggling.
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pjrocksmb
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This is the CFL- support our league- Go Canada!


« Reply #108 on: June 05, 2019, 01:51:59 AM »

I think the East Coast will work as well.  These big markets will find balance.  Just a bad streak that will slowly turn.
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Fire101
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« Reply #109 on: June 06, 2019, 01:44:56 AM »

https://3downnation.com/2019/06/05/cfl-currently-negotiating-sale-of-the-alouettes-with-eric-lapointes-group-report/
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bluebeard
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« Reply #110 on: June 10, 2019, 09:33:24 PM »

I wouldn't be shocked if more American money coming in to buy the Als. Roll Eyes
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Fire101
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« Reply #111 on: June 11, 2019, 12:34:40 AM »

I wouldn't be shocked if more American money coming in to buy the Als. Roll Eyes

Sounds like you're in Ambroise's hip pocket.

https://3downnation.com/2019/06/10/league-hoping-to-sell-alouettes-to-lenkov-brothers-report/
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Fire101
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« Reply #112 on: June 13, 2019, 02:02:27 AM »

https://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/clifford-starke-sends-cfl-amended-offer-purchase-alouettes/

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