Blue Bombers Forum
March 20, 2019, 09:16:46 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Poll
Question: Who would you rather have ?
Bighill - 44 (100%)
Dressler - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 44

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Bighill or Dressler or Both?  (Read 3180 times)
GOLDMEMBER
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 20975


R.I.P. BLUE BONGER


« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2019, 06:19:05 PM »

This is a joke right? Bighill hands down. I'd also take JSK over Dressler too.

That?s what I thought

IT ISNT EVEn CLOSE!
Logged

I LOSHT MY MEMBER IN AN UNFORTUNATE SHMELTING ACCSHIDENT!
Blue In BC
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 21643


« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2019, 06:19:27 PM »

I look at it a bit differently...  some value a team's regular season record, which I get, but for me if you go 12-6 in the regular season but lose in the first round of the playoffs is no different than missing the playoffs all together, you still lost... and you're paying a premium for the privilege of losing...

that's why I thought that last year after the Banjo Bowl loss was the perfect time to make the switch. Our record at that point was 5-7, just coming off a 2 game losing streak to the Riders, looked bad, real bad on offense and had been less than impressive prior to this point... we didn't look like a team that would turn the corner and have a chance to even have a winning record, let alone a playoff opportunity, so... it seemed like a good time to sacrifice the balance of the year and dump the big salary and have Streve ready to run in 2019...

now some will say, "aren't you glad we didn't?", "we finished 10-8, a winning season, made the playoffs, even won a playoff game!"... but we still lost, not really much different than ending up 5-13... the drought continues...

so, now we go into 2019 with a QB that has done much what everybody is worried about a rookie doing, (looked great in '16 and part of '17, and now average or below average) but with a huge contract and really not much of a realistic chance of winning it all... so, we keep Nichols and his contract, end of losing other players that we could have possibly signed for '19 and '20, end up with another lack luster year, lose again in playoffs, if we make it AND them move to 2020 with the cupboard bare...

at the end of the day, if you know that "player A" isn't "the guy", just go ahead and rip that bandaid off and start moving in a different direction... why prolong it?

How do you know a given player isn't " the guy "? It's a relative statement compared to who is next in line that " might " be the guy. It's a risk evaluation at any given moment in time.

Hamilton decided Calvillo wasn't " the guy ". IIRC that was his 4th CFL season when he was allowed to depart in free agency and picked up by Montreal for 16 seasons. Granted Hamilton decided to sign Dunigan to big $ contract.  Too much focus on the QB when a team is losing and it's never that simple.

Conversely we don't really know that Streveler is " the guy ". He's not the 1st Winnipeg QB that some fans clamored for to become the starter over the incumbent.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 06:22:46 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

No more excuses.
booch
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1821


« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2019, 07:03:40 PM »

Streveler isn't as good as gone to the NFL after next year in the least bit...if anything he would be competing for 3rd string..maybe 2nd somewhere and that is it...and from sounds of it, he doesn't seem inclined to want to go that route....yet..maybe in 3 years after 2 years of "proven" starter stats under his belt.

He only has minimal QB experience through college, and so far in the pro's and nfl team look at that extensively, not to mention the uniqueness of his throwing style, and his yet to been adjusted/perfected set-up and base in the pocket..too much "work" to invest yet for the NFL to see him as anything but a gadget guy right now.

If the Bombers are smart..and he shows progression in camp...and during the season and somehow wrangles the starter job away from Nichols you extend him mid-season..give him a signing bonus in 2019 for the following season and a 350k base salary..So what if Nichols is still signed beyond 2019...deal with that issue in camp...or move him in the winter...or just flat out cut him if he wont renegotiate...the savings with an outright release would be well served in surrounding Streveler with offensive weapons
Logged
Blue In BC
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 21643


« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2019, 07:38:47 PM »

Streveler could be the next guy and I'd like to see how he progresses in 2019. If he learns more about reading defenses and is continually ripping defenses to shreds then he has a chance at a bigger contract towards the end of the season and into 2019.

It's a paradox. What if Nichols is playing very well? Most coaches are reluctant to put in the next guy to get decent reps in games. I hope that regardless of how Nichols plays the organization needs to get Streveler meaningful reps.

That worked out well in 2018 and I see know reason to not do that even if Nichols rebounds to his 2017 form. It created problems for defenses and helped Streveler adapt into the CFL game.
Logged

No more excuses.
Knocker42
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 370


« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2019, 07:49:54 PM »

Absolutely, if you KNOW player A is not the guy , you move on.  But if someone were to say that we should now move on from Nichols, I think they would be premature - at least.  He may not be the next coming of Tom Clements, but there is no-one better around.  Not Streveler- not yet anyhow.
Logged
Sir Blue and Gold
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 21032



« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2019, 08:23:13 PM »

Absolutely, if you KNOW player A is not the guy , you move on.  But if someone were to say that we should now move on from Nichols, I think they would be premature - at least.  He may not be the next coming of Tom Clements, but there is no-one better around.  Not Streveler- not yet anyhow.

I'm not sure Streveler could put up 2017 Matt Nichols' numbers this season but I'm not sure Matt Nichols can either. Nichols' 2018 numbers are very attainable by most starting QBs in the CFL: he averaged 224 passing yards, 1.2 passing TDs, .93 INTs per game. Not good, really.

 I'm sort of down on Nichols, truth be told. More than just the numbers. He had what I would consider a significantly below average year and he didn't seem to handle it well. His media comments ranged from uninspiring at best to tone-deaf and out of touch at worst. I'm hopeful that 2018 was just an off year and he'll be back this season with a rejuvenated and refreshed outlook. He seemed down on the game to me. I obviously don't know him or what's going on between the ears but we need him to come back with that fire and thirst for football that we saw earlier in his time with us that seemed completely missing from his game last year.
Logged
66 Chevelle
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2941


« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2019, 08:33:36 PM »

honestly, few QBs ever 'win' the job... if you go back through history I think that you would find that "the next great thing" are found out of necessity, and quite honestly luck, more so than because a well thought out, and followed developmental plan. Most teams will rarely bench or replace a starting QB that has the slightest glimmer of success in any given league. As a back up QB, your team hopes that you never play a down for them, you are most generally nothing more than an insurance policy that you hope you never have to use until the next 'sure thing' comes along...

case in point, in 2001 Drew Bledsoe was the starting QB for the Patriots and most would say that he was the best QB in the league. The Patriots loved him, the year before they have just re-signed him to a 10 year extension!  Bledsoe wasn't going anywhere, he was the face of the team, a franchise player, and won for them, won a lot. However, Bledsoe suffered an injury early in the season and the Patriots were forced to go to a back up. The back up for the Patriots at the time was none other than Tom Brady. Brady took the Patriots to the Super Bowl that year and won. The next year Bledsoe was traded to the Bills and as they say, 'the rest is history'...

Point being, the Patriots really had no plans of ever playing Brady, unless they had to. I mean, you're not extending your current QB for 10 years in there truly was a transition plan to move Brady into the starting role.

But you can never be sure that any player is, or isn't, 'the guy'. However, I think that you can look at some players and say that while they may be a good, solid player for you that probably aren't the next Tom Brady.  Again, another Alex Smith comparison... Last year the Chiefs decided that he wasn't 'the guy', even though he made the Chiefs a contender every year and very successful regular seasons. But nobody thought that Smith was truly going to lead us to the Super Bowl. The Chiefs ultimately brought in Mahomes 2 years ago, gave him one start last year and then cut Smith and committed to Mahomes... Mahomes already has a better play off record for the Chiefs than Smith had and he may just lead us to the Super Bowl...

but a little closer to home... If you have a choice between Nichols, Mitchell, or Reilly, do you take Nichols? In no, then he probably isn't 'the guy'... now I'm not saying Streveler is better than Mitchell or Reilly, or if given the same choice between them and Streveler that I take Streveler instead... but I am saying, I don't think I can beat those 2 with Nichols, not consistently or regularly and I'm not looking for just good regular season results, so I cut bait, make the bold move, and take a chance...
Logged

just because you can doesn't mean you should...
66 Chevelle
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2941


« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2019, 08:38:10 PM »

I'm not sure Streveler could put up 2017 Matt Nichols' numbers this season but I'm not sure Matt Nichols can either. Nichols' 2018 numbers are very attainable by most starting QBs in the CFL: he averaged 224 passing yards, 1.2 passing TDs, .93 INTs per game. Not good, really.

 I'm sort of down on Nichols, truth be told. More than just the numbers. He had what I would consider a significantly below average year and he didn't seem to handle it well. His media comments ranged from uninspiring at best to tone-deaf and out of touch at worst. I'm hopeful that 2018 was just an off year and he'll be back this season with a rejuvenated and refreshed outlook. He seemed down on the game to me. I obviously don't know him or what's going on between the ears but we need him to come back with that fire and thirst for football that we saw earlier in his time with us that seemed completely missing from his game last year.

I agree with this and will add, that to me, when Nichols came back, he didn't play like the confident and competent QB that had nothing to worry about, job wise, and just picked up where he left off... he played like a man that was fearful for his job, as if he saw that their may be someone waiting in the wings that was better than him, and he pressed... and looked bad doing so... the 'The Fever' or Dom had been the 2 in relief, I think Nichols comes back and play like business as usual, but he saw someone that could take his job... spooked him... now he's playing behind the 8 ball and knows it...
Logged

just because you can doesn't mean you should...
Knocker42
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 370


« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2019, 09:13:29 PM »

Or, maybe, he came back too soon and was not able to play as he had in the past.
Logged
Blue In BC
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 21643


« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2019, 09:29:04 PM »

I agree with this and will add, that to me, when Nichols came back, he didn't play like the confident and competent QB that had nothing to worry about, job wise, and just picked up where he left off... he played like a man that was fearful for his job, as if he saw that their may be someone waiting in the wings that was better than him, and he pressed... and looked bad doing so... the 'The Fever' or Dom had been the 2 in relief, I think Nichols comes back and play like business as usual, but he saw someone that could take his job... spooked him... now he's playing behind the 8 ball and knows it...

Fearful for his job? I think you're grasping for straws in your assessment of his performance and the reasoning behind it. There may be all sorts of reasons why he struggled. Fearful for his job would be last on the list IMO.

There are 7 other teams that likely would take Mitchell or Reilly over their starting QB. That's not a surprise statement.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 09:31:30 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

No more excuses.
TBURGESS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7054



« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2019, 09:49:54 PM »

My take:

1. I know Streveler's agent thinks he'll get an NFL look, but I doubt he does unless he takes the #1 spot in Winnipeg next year and looks like a top CFL QB. By that, I mean Reilly/BLM good and I don't see that happening.

2. I doubt that their will be an equal chance at TC. Nichols is our starting QB. The only way that Streveler gets as many reps in 2019 as he did in 2018 is if Nichols gets injured. Even if Nichols plays the way he did most of 2018, he's gonna keep his job.

3. I think we'd have won as many games last year with Streveler at QB as we did with Nichols. I can think of one game where Nichols was a difference maker in a good way and two where is was a difference maker in a bad way. His best attribute last year was not turning the ball over. When that's the best you can say about your starting QB, then it's time to look for his replacement.

4. The QB situation in the league right now, means that we could get the best return for Nichols we'd ever get this off season. No, I don't expect Walters/MOS to take advantage of it because of the risk factor. 'What if Streveler's not ready' or 'what if Streveler's not as good as expected' will out weigh 'what if Streveler is better than Nichols' and 'what if $450K of SMS room is worth more than having Nichols as our starting QB'.

5. If Streveler still looks like the next one half way through next season, we better have money available to make him good offer for an extension. I'd hate to have to 'overpay' him in free agency when we have to bid against other teams.

6. I suspect that Nichols peaked in 2017. I don't see him getting back to that level. I doubt that Streveler peaked in his rookie year.

7. Right now, I'd say that Streveler isn't as polished a QB as Nichols, but he's not far behind. Streveler's running ability closes the gap significantly. I'd expect more INT's, more running and more TD's from Streveler. I'd expect quicker reads and more throw-aways from Nichols. Neither guy changes the play at the LOS, so I'd say game management's is equal and in PLAP's hands.
Logged

Being right never gets old.
booch
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1821


« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2019, 09:55:41 PM »

I think he came back earlier than he should and it hindered him..partly because he is a warrior and a team guy and wanted to lead us...but also because like Chevelle said...he saw a possible spark in Streveler that may take off into a full blown fire and yeah...he wanted to get back in and douse that fire.

He then due to a combination of not being his usual self (injury) and the idea in the back of his mind that there was finally a guy behind him pushing for him..he pressed, and it showed, and tried to do too much and made foolish decisions (the Rider games specifically) to try and make something happen and it bit him in the ***.

Next year no doubt he comes to camp as the number 1 pivot, but he has to break camp as the number 1 and if he is out performed and Streveler has really progressed, well then he has to take a back seat...be a team guy and support him, and be a very valuable option B for us...and most likely a better option A than several teams, but not our best option...so goes sports...good teams are always evolving.

If he does break camp as the starter though...and struggles, or we just seem to missing "something" on offence...then you would hope by game 4 we make a switch
Logged
theaardvark
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 27592



« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2019, 09:59:04 PM »

Streveler will have an impossible task taking Nichols job as long as Nichols remains upright.  If he is injured or starts underhand pick sixing on a regular basis, CS17 has a chance of starting.  

As to getting a look in the NFL, less will be based on his starting than his film and tryouts.  He is a prospect, like any other young QB, and isn't trying to land a starting or backup role in the NFL, but just to get on a roster and have a shot to get into a development position.  Huge difference from what Reilly and BLM are trying for.


As to the thread question.  Not sure which will play out.  Depending on CBA, cap, Dressler's offseason workouts, etc, we could see both, neither or one...  I don't see it as an either/or...  signing one does not prevent signing the other, likewise signing one does not insure signing the other.  Pretty silly question, really...
Logged

Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.
66 Chevelle
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2941


« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2019, 10:17:28 PM »

I think he came back earlier than he should and it hindered him..partly because he is a warrior and a team guy and wanted to lead us...but also because like Chevelle said...he saw a possible spark in Streveler that may take off into a full blown fire and yeah...he wanted to get back in and douse that fire.

He then due to a combination of not being his usual self (injury) and the idea in the back of his mind that there was finally a guy behind him pushing for him..he pressed, and it showed, and tried to do too much and made foolish decisions (the Rider games specifically) to try and make something happen and it bit him in the ***.

Next year no doubt he comes to camp as the number 1 pivot, but he has to break camp as the number 1 and if he is out performed and Streveler has really progressed, well then he has to take a back seat...be a team guy and support him, and be a very valuable option B for us...and most likely a better option A than several teams, but not our best option...so goes sports...good teams are always evolving.

If he does break camp as the starter though...and struggles, or we just seem to missing "something" on offence...then you would hope by game 4 we make a switch

this is basically what I was saying, lol... just wasn't as well received...

the one thing that I don't necessarily agree with is there being a real competition in camp... as long as Nichols can walk out of camp on his own two feet, he's the starter... Nichols as been QB1 in the last 3 seasons that has netted coaches and staff over 30 wins, something that hasn't been done for quite a while from my understanding... Nichols to them, even if they aren't going to win a cup with him, provides job security via a successful regular season record...

Fearful for his job? I think you're grasping for straws in your assessment of his performance and the reasoning behind it. There may be all sorts of reasons why he struggled. Fearful for his job would be last on the list IMO.

There are 7 other teams that likely would take Mitchell or Reilly over their starting QB. That's not a surprise statement.

grasping at straws? maybe, but doubtful... that or he came down with the case of the yips... IMO...

I'm not sure if there are 7 teams, but maybe 5... still doesn't make him a man that can get the job done for you, just that he's not the worst QB in the league... lofty aspirations...
Logged

just because you can doesn't mean you should...
66 Chevelle
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2941


« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2019, 10:29:57 PM »

oh, I forgot to add this...

I don't think Streveler will get another look or consideration by the NFL... I don't think his style or play is typical QB strengths that the NFL look for... also, he has very limited QB experience... and lastly, I think that most teams feel that if you're going to have to 'fix' a QB to make him game ready, there are probably better candidates to start with. His draft prospective labeled him as a project... that comment is out there and one that is hard to shake once hung on you...

all that being said, I still love the guy... his heart... his motor... love a play maker, a guy that gets in the other guy's face, and means it, lol... I think he could win a lot of games for us and between the two, gives us the best chances doing so moving forward...

as we all know, I may be wrong... and as always, not trying to convince anyone or force you to agree... but it is fun to discuss...  Grin
Logged

just because you can doesn't mean you should...
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!