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Author Topic: Blue Bombers roster - 2018-2019  (Read 100106 times)
66 Chevelle
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« Reply #1065 on: July 01, 2019, 06:10:55 PM »

I think Calgary might have wanted to pull our player off our PR and this resulted in a trade. No problem with that but in theory we didn't initially know who is on their neg list.

So wondering who we got, how that player came to our attention or whether we'll end up signing him are interesting questions. I guess this was " we want your PR player " here's our neg list, pick 1?

We didn't really need an extra import DE on our PR but he was a late 2018 PR signing IIRC. Trading a PR player is not all that common so I'm curious what the though process involved was that created this.

I'm not complaining but I do find it interesting.

Add this to the injury to Oliveria we going to see some changes on the PR this week. Augustine to AR and this trade give us 2 new spots for newbies.





yes we do, each team's negotiation list is given to every other team, just not the public... the league requires teams to submitted changes to their list to the league office and updates are given to every team, daily I believe...
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #1066 on: July 01, 2019, 06:59:00 PM »

yes we do, each team's negotiation list is given to every other team, just not the public... the league requires teams to submitted changes to their list to the league office and updates are given to every team, daily I believe...

Even if that's true I'm not sure why we'd trade anybody ( even a PR player ) for a player we might not even be able to sign. We won't even know if we do sign this player or he just gets added to our neg list. Which BTW would mean we have to delete a current neg list.. Choudja was only signed in Oct 2018 so not a big invest of time or money.

Like I said, part of the trade might have allowed the Bombers to speak with the neg list player acquired.

Or we may have traded for a neg list player that never comes to the CFL? How will we know?

If we sign someone to the PR in the next week or so we'll be able go make a guess but that's all it will be.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 07:15:06 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #1067 on: July 01, 2019, 07:13:29 PM »

Even if that's true I'm not sure why we'd trade anybody ( even a PR player ) for a player we might not even be able to sign. We won't even know if we do sign this player or he just gets added to our neg list. Which BTW would mean we have to delete a current neg list..

Like I said, part of the trade might have allowed the Bombers to speak with the neg list player acquired.

Or we may have traded for a neg list player that never comes to the CFL? How will we know?



even if it is true? seriously?

from the cfl, link for those that feel the need to verify: https://cfldb.ca/faq/rosters/#what-is-a-cfl-neg-list

"Teams place players on their neg lists on a first come, first serve basis. It is estimated 75% of players do not know they are on a CFL team's neg list. The lists change frequently and additions/deletions are published by the league to the teams daily."
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #1068 on: July 01, 2019, 07:21:36 PM »

I wrote a chapter book earlier on this, the negotiation list, the need for secrecy and how it can be used to hurt other teams... maybe you saw it... most thought my opinion that it could be used against opposing teams by some teams was just stupid... well...

this is a real and relevant fact that shows just that, we have to trade a player, one that he have funds and resources invested in, for a player from another team that they have not signed, doesn't exist in their system on a roster that would have to bump another player off in order to be there, but only for the fact that they put this guys name on a list before we did... 

this player isn't currently playing in the league, not drawing a pay check from the team, yet can be prevented from having an opportunity to play because Calgary has him on a list... a list that give them the rights to player that they may never call or offer a contract to... yet, for this guy to get a chance to play, we still have to sign him, we have to give this other team one of our players... sounds like a fair and just process...
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #1069 on: July 01, 2019, 07:34:24 PM »

even if it is true? seriously?

from the cfl, link for those that feel the need to verify: https://cfldb.ca/faq/rosters/#what-is-a-cfl-neg-list

"Teams place players on their neg lists on a first come, first serve basis. It is estimated 75% of players do not know they are on a CFL team's neg list. The lists change frequently and additions/deletions are published by the league to the teams daily."

I stand corrected.

Regardless, very few trades seem to be made for neg list players. 8 other teams X 35 = 280 players with changes on potentially a near daily basis.

Teams have their own neg list to deal with plus whatever players they are looking at to find and add on their list.

How seriously do they look at the other teams list? Usually a neg list player is thrown in as a near after thought when a roster player is traded. Or at the very least when a high profile neg list player ( Manziel ) is traded. I lost track whether he was traded once before he ended up in the CFL.

Even trading PR players is not common.

I vaguely remember your chapter book on the subject. I don't recall how much I agree with it or not.

I do know I find the entire neg list a baffling process and don't agree with a lot of it.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 08:40:05 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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bunker
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« Reply #1070 on: July 01, 2019, 07:54:46 PM »

I wrote a chapter book earlier on this, the negotiation list, the need for secrecy and how it can be used to hurt other teams... maybe you saw it... most thought my opinion that it could be used against opposing teams by some teams was just stupid... well...

this is a real and relevant fact that shows just that, we have to trade a player, one that he have funds and resources invested in, for a player from another team that they have not signed, doesn't exist in their system on a roster that would have to bump another player off in order to be there, but only for the fact that they put this guys name on a list before we did... 

this player isn't currently playing in the league, not drawing a pay check from the team, yet can be prevented from having an opportunity to play because Calgary has him on a list... a list that give them the rights to player that they may never call or offer a contract to... yet, for this guy to get a chance to play, we still have to sign him, we have to give this other team one of our players... sounds like a fair and just process...

There are some rules in place that try to give the neg list player some rights, although you can argue not enough.

"Teams place players on their neg lists on a first come, first serve basis. It is estimated 75% of players do not know they are on a CFL team's neg list. The lists change frequently and additions/deletions are published by the league to the teams daily. Teams must follow rules to negotiate in good faith. Players can notify the league of the negotiation window and if a contract offer is not received within 10 days, the player is removed from the team's neg list. If a fair contract offer is received, but rejected, the player is removed from the list one year from the offer date."



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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #1071 on: July 01, 2019, 07:57:42 PM »

I brought the topic up during a time when then there was a lot of talk going on here about the Bomber's inability to successfully find and sign competent receivers...

I offered for consideration that part of the that issue may be related to the negotiation list and other teams having the ability to add players to their list even though they may never choose to sign them. I also suggested that a team could actually use it to block a division rival from being able to address current needs by adding players to their list for no other reason other than to keep rival teams from improving...

not to mention how unfair it is for the player on the list, those that actually want to play in the CFL as a) they are never informed that they have been added to a team's list, and b) it's not unreasonable to believe that there would be some players sitting at home wanting an opportunity to play but can't, and maybe will never, because they are sitting on a team's list that may never decide to call them, all the while, other teams that may call can't because the player is on someone else's list...

players are not told that they've been added to a list because if they did and the player do indeed want to play, they can force the team to either offer a contract or remove them from their list which in turn would allow them to shop their services to others...
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #1072 on: July 01, 2019, 08:04:02 PM »

There are some rules in place that try to give the neg list player some rights, although you can argue not enough.

"Teams place players on their neg lists on a first come, first serve basis. It is estimated 75% of players do not know they are on a CFL team's neg list. The lists change frequently and additions/deletions are published by the league to the teams daily. Teams must follow rules to negotiate in good faith. Players can notify the league of the negotiation window and if a contract offer is not received within 10 days, the player is removed from the team's neg list. If a fair contract offer is received, but rejected, the player is removed from the list one year from the offer date."





you beat me to it, lol... but you are correct, there can be some relief sought for effected players, however, there is a lot of soft language in the rules that leave the player in a less than fair position, in my opinion...

I would also add that if you have nothing to hide, why hide it? they have no problem with sharing it among the teams, but, they don't/won't  want players or players agents and the public in general knowing who is on the list because it's not in their best interest...  it's hard to believe that teams could be able to use the list in 'good faith' as mentioned above when they see a need to hide it from players and fans...
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #1073 on: July 01, 2019, 08:16:06 PM »

and you have to know that given the fact that each team has the ability to add as many as 35 players to this list that teams will have more than a couple of QB's on their list. granted, these QB's are probably still in the NCAA, most I believe would be seniors this coming year, and wouldn't be able to play immediately, but there is no rule that says you are required to take them off the list even if you don't offer a player a contract...  teams can wait to see a player wants to do after graduation but may choose to keep them on their list even if they have no current need...

why would they do that? well they make their team better by not allowing you a chance to improve your team... basically, addition by subtract, by strategically adding the right players to my list subtracts them from the pool of available... and to think that teams don't do that you'd have to be pretty naive, because why wouldn't you? it's like saying I'm not going to sign your free agents to make my team better, worse actually...
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #1074 on: July 01, 2019, 09:08:25 PM »

I think Calgary might have wanted to pull our player off our PR and this resulted in a trade. No problem with that but in theory we didn't initially know who is on their neg list.

So wondering who we got, how that player came to our attention or whether we'll end up signing him are interesting questions. I guess this was " we want your PR player " here's our neg list, pick 1?

We didn't really need an extra import DE on our PR but he was a late 2018 PR signing IIRC. Trading a PR player is not all that common so I'm curious what the though process involved was that created this.

I'm not complaining but I do find it interesting.

Add this to the injury to Oliveria we going to see some changes on the PR this week. Augustine to AR and this trade give us 2 new spots for newbies.

We don't know, but I'm pretty sure each team has full knowledge of other teams complete neg. lists, otherwise select players would be contacted by every team in the league.
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3rdand1.5
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« Reply #1075 on: July 01, 2019, 09:56:52 PM »

2-PR spots potentially opened up, we have room for Santiago if he would accept a PR should we choose to now.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #1076 on: July 01, 2019, 11:23:19 PM »

2-PR spots potentially opened up, we have room for Santiago if he would accept a PR should we choose to now.

He'd still be a ratio issue to get on the AR. So no need to bring an import RB to camp now IMO.

Not sure where would be a better spot to beef up.
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kkc60
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« Reply #1077 on: July 02, 2019, 02:21:31 AM »

He'd still be a ratio issue to get on the AR. So no need to bring an import RB to camp now IMO.

Not sure where would be a better spot to beef up.
Honestly I'd say bring in another Canadian receiver and maybe DB? I really liked Boynton.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #1078 on: July 02, 2019, 06:19:35 AM »

He'd still be a ratio issue to get on the AR. So no need to bring an import RB to camp now IMO.

Not sure where would be a better spot to beef up.

With the loss of Chouda they're down to 3 players who can play DE and they're all in heavy rotation, I'd plug that gap before looking at another RB for the PR.  We don't know anything about Kongbo yet but pretty unlikely he'd be any where near starter ready with no experience if one of the 3 goes down.  I'd be happy to bring McCalister back if he's interested but it might make sense to pickup a vet. castoff with experience and a few gallons left in the tank, could even be Okpalaugo or Gerald Rivers if they're willing to accept a PR spot.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #1079 on: July 02, 2019, 01:30:21 PM »

With the loss of Chouda they're down to 3 players who can play DE and they're all in heavy rotation, I'd plug that gap before looking at another RB for the PR.  We don't know anything about Kongbo yet but pretty unlikely he'd be any where near starter ready with no experience if one of the 3 goes down.  I'd be happy to bring McCalister back if he's interested but it might make sense to pickup a vet. castoff with experience and a few gallons left in the tank, could even be Okpalaugo or Gerald Rivers if they're willing to accept a PR spot.

Chouda was on the PR.  We need another DE PR body.  Until Kongbo can go.  Which, by the way they have handled this, sounds like it is very soon, or soon enough that they were not worried about losing Chouda...

No doubt they have players identified ready to get the call... that's what scouts are for.  But it is a PR spot, not the easiest thing to get a player to come to.  PR spots filled out of TC are guys already in camp, already in Canada, who think they have a chance of making the AR based on a month of practice with the squad.  A lot different than "Hey, want a non guaranteed spot at a minimal wage, and we can't help you with housing, etc... "  Now, if an AR spot comes open,  different story.
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