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Author Topic: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?  (Read 5709 times)
66 Chevelle
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« Reply #120 on: December 04, 2018, 08:28:09 PM »

If their goal is to get the NFL to buy them out they are risking quite a bit. The majority of NFL owners decided to fold NFL Europe because they felt it was a huge waste of money. If the AAF can't clearly demonstrate they are not a money pit the NFL will let them go the way of every other secondary football league before them....off to twist in the breeze and die.

you know, I had been looking for the terms of the TV deal online probably since July and was never able to find anything. You shedding the light on the fact there is no pay out to the league makes it all a lot clearer for me, lol. It also makes me think that these guys are pretty smart and have a pretty thought out long term plan, and it just might work...

I do recall a statement made by the fine folks at CBS as to why they were on board, and it goes something like this... They said they were really impressed with Ebersol and his group as they came to them with not a 1, 2, or 3 year detailed plan and vision, but a 20 year plan. And not just a bunch of 1 liners but a very detailed synopsis by year, etc.  Thinking about all of this and how some of these pieces are coming together, I'm pretty impressed and it may not be as risky as I once thought , not saying there isn't risk, just that now it really looks like viable, at least to me...

like we've all agreed, if nobody is watching, they fold up the tent and go home. So, securing appropriate exposure is critical arm of the plan for success.  So to start, instead of haggling with a TV partner, trying to get them to fund the league in essence, they give them the first 5 years, free... CBS get to make the money from the advertisers, AAF had a had in determining the numbers of TV breaks there will be to coincide with their plans, CBS has little at risk, the AAF just national broadcast exposure on a platform that is limited to only some cable packages  or not at all for some. CBS will have an incentive to promote the crap out of the league as opening day approaches because they get to keep all of the money.  This will allow the AAF to have a little time to grow the actual gate attendence in their individual markets

Keep in mind, that if they are to make it to year 5 because of this, it was brilliant because they still have the rights and now have something to either promote to a potential buyer, or keep for themselves to continue to fund their league because they won't give the rights away for another 5 years.

The cost are somewhat limited and at least controlled and known, plus, it keeps everyone in line as each player, regardless of position, makes the same money. The players are keep interested and coming to the league because a) the will make pretty good base for 4 months of work, b) knows the NFL will be watching and if the doorbell rings they will be allowed to leave and pursue, and c) there are ways for them to make more than the base from the gambling, social media, team and personal performance incentives.

You all brought up a good point about "what are they going to bet on because there is no base line data from which one can make an informed bet", but there will be, or at least it is proposed, we'll have to see how it works. From what I have determined from what I've read is, they are really looking to push the 'in game' experience for the fan but also the gambler. In order to do so they will be outfitting the players with technology that will provide 'real time' data made available to the 'fans' and they will be able to bet on the out come. Here is a link that provides some details and insight as to what they plan: http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/24632798/alliance-american-football-enhanced-live-game-betting 

Also, you know that they will be doing things much like the CFL, selling advertising opportunities and so forth. And, given the value of owning an NFL franchise and the lure of parlaying you capital into a relatively short term investment, say 3 to 5 years, yet could potentially yield a return many multiples of your cash outlay may not be that hard of a sell, especially if you have a lot of money, such as the venture capital folks... While I know its still a lot of money, in scale its not much different than the risk I assume in the stock market given the overall effect it has on each of our bottom lines. In January I lost $40,000 in 3 days... I continues exposure was more controlled because I could monitor activity and decide how much more I would be willing to do, these investors will do the same...

I don't know, maybe they are on to something here...
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #121 on: December 04, 2018, 08:35:13 PM »

A solid case could be made against the NCAA for exploiting student athletes to fill their coffers and subsidize the education of the rest of the student body.  Spenser Strasmore will be pushing this argument hard in the next season of Ballers, he may yet change the world!

I'm not too sure that there isn't a case in court right now, there was one going on several months ago and I don't recall hearing of a resolution...

but keep in mind, even though football and men's basketball haul in boat loads of money, they also fund all of the other sports and activities that operate at huge losses each year. Not to mention the Title IX requirements that they fund and repayment to the school for all of the coaches salaries, medical and training staff, sports scholarships, room and board, books, and student stipends that are there only because these athletes are there... I'm not saying that it's fair, but there is more to the conversation than the schools are sitting fat and pretty off of the labor of kids...
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bigbuff33
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« Reply #122 on: December 05, 2018, 11:24:57 AM »

Trou Polomalu in promo ad for AAF...

The league will pay for players' housing and health insurance...on top of three year guaranteed salaries...with the freedom to go to the NFL at any time...

Wow
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Jesse
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« Reply #123 on: December 05, 2018, 11:46:23 AM »

Trou Polomalu in promo ad for AAF...

The league will pay for players' housing and health insurance...on top of three year guaranteed salaries...with the freedom to go to the NFL at any time...

Wow

That video made me more skeptical than ever. Who is paying for all of these promises and long can they possibly do it for?
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buckzumhoff
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« Reply #124 on: December 05, 2018, 02:51:04 PM »

CFL should keep the salaries up and get rid of the practice roster pay salary. They should field more players and pay them what they sign them for and not reduce their salary if they are on the practice roster. That will hurt players from staying here or coming here. I would keep qb salaries in check and pay more for receivers , running backs, and defensive backs. Some o-linemen make more than a good defensive back, Defensive lineman salaries , some get twice as much as another player. They should balance it more.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 02:53:57 PM by buckzumhoff » Logged
GCn18
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« Reply #125 on: December 05, 2018, 04:13:04 PM »

you know, I had been looking for the terms of the TV deal online probably since July and was never able to find anything. You shedding the light on the fact there is no pay out to the league makes it all a lot clearer for me, lol. It also makes me think that these guys are pretty smart and have a pretty thought out long term plan, and it just might work...

I do recall a statement made by the fine folks at CBS as to why they were on board, and it goes something like this... They said they were really impressed with Ebersol and his group as they came to them with not a 1, 2, or 3 year detailed plan and vision, but a 20 year plan. And not just a bunch of 1 liners but a very detailed synopsis by year, etc.  Thinking about all of this and how some of these pieces are coming together, I'm pretty impressed and it may not be as risky as I once thought , not saying there isn't risk, just that now it really looks like viable, at least to me...

like we've all agreed, if nobody is watching, they fold up the tent and go home. So, securing appropriate exposure is critical arm of the plan for success.  So to start, instead of haggling with a TV partner, trying to get them to fund the league in essence, they give them the first 5 years, free... CBS get to make the money from the advertisers, AAF had a had in determining the numbers of TV breaks there will be to coincide with their plans, CBS has little at risk, the AAF just national broadcast exposure on a platform that is limited to only some cable packages  or not at all for some. CBS will have an incentive to promote the crap out of the league as opening day approaches because they get to keep all of the money.  This will allow the AAF to have a little time to grow the actual gate attendence in their individual markets

Keep in mind, that if they are to make it to year 5 because of this, it was brilliant because they still have the rights and now have something to either promote to a potential buyer, or keep for themselves to continue to fund their league because they won't give the rights away for another 5 years.

The cost are somewhat limited and at least controlled and known, plus, it keeps everyone in line as each player, regardless of position, makes the same money. The players are keep interested and coming to the league because a) the will make pretty good base for 4 months of work, b) knows the NFL will be watching and if the doorbell rings they will be allowed to leave and pursue, and c) there are ways for them to make more than the base from the gambling, social media, team and personal performance incentives.

You all brought up a good point about "what are they going to bet on because there is no base line data from which one can make an informed bet", but there will be, or at least it is proposed, we'll have to see how it works. From what I have determined from what I've read is, they are really looking to push the 'in game' experience for the fan but also the gambler. In order to do so they will be outfitting the players with technology that will provide 'real time' data made available to the 'fans' and they will be able to bet on the out come. Here is a link that provides some details and insight as to what they plan: http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/24632798/alliance-american-football-enhanced-live-game-betting 

Also, you know that they will be doing things much like the CFL, selling advertising opportunities and so forth. And, given the value of owning an NFL franchise and the lure of parlaying you capital into a relatively short term investment, say 3 to 5 years, yet could potentially yield a return many multiples of your cash outlay may not be that hard of a sell, especially if you have a lot of money, such as the venture capital folks... While I know its still a lot of money, in scale its not much different than the risk I assume in the stock market given the overall effect it has on each of our bottom lines. In January I lost $40,000 in 3 days... I continues exposure was more controlled because I could monitor activity and decide how much more I would be willing to do, these investors will do the same...

I don't know, maybe they are on to something here...

My doubt this league succeeds is purely from a financial aspect , and it is mainly because the vast majority o f funding comes from venture capatilists who, as a rule, are notlriously impatient investors. I don't see the revenue generating structure as particularly realistic either.

I do, however, like their football ops ideas and think that they will recruit good players. I think their impact on the CFL will be minimal because the CFL recruits in a different way than they will. The AAF wants to be a feeder league to the NFL. Imo, because of that they will not recruit tbe tweeners and those that lack in any of the measurables. The CFL has survived by finding the ballers that will never vet an NFL shot because they are an inch too short or 20 lbs underweigjht for their position.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #126 on: December 05, 2018, 04:49:35 PM »

My doubt this league succeeds is purely from a financial aspect , and it is mainly because the vast majority o f funding comes from venture capatilists who, as a rule, are notlriously impatient investors. I don't see the revenue generating structure as particularly realistic either.

I do, however, like their football ops ideas and think that they will recruit good players. I think their impact on the CFL will be minimal because the CFL recruits in a different way than they will. The AAF wants to be a feeder league to the NFL. Imo, because of that they will not recruit tbe tweeners and those that lack in any of the measurables. The CFL has survived by finding the ballers that will never vet an NFL shot because they are an inch too short or 20 lbs underweigjht for their position.

I agree. We'd probably miss out on the Cameron Wakes and Jon Ryans of the world. Not a huge deal, but those guys are good for marketing the CFL even among American football circles.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #127 on: December 05, 2018, 06:55:02 PM »

I don't know guys, purely my opinion, but, I think money is the least of their worries and here is why I say that...

it's not like there are these guys that have a couple hundred grand between them and trying to stay alive by 'robbing Peter to pay Paul' until it catches up with them. They have at least 5 or 6 large vesting group on board already and maybe more, I'm not for sure. But I'm sure that if their performance milestones are met they will continue to be funded. It all boils down to if they can get people to watch as they are trying to build a league that doesn't have to live or die based upon 'butts in the seats', or at least not completely.

Again, based upon what I've read, Ebersol has a very detailed 20 year plan that he has created and I'm sure that this is what those investment are based off. He will have projected performance markers outlined within this document which he sold his ideas to these investor that he will have to met in order to keep being funded. As long as he keeps hitting his numbers we keep getting paid.

I would say that all of these leagues before them were dependent of the team owner to keep successful with his team. Team starts losing money, owner quits, walks away. That won't happen here, one person/entity owns all of the teams and will determine how money is spent and where is it spent. Their investment isn't pinned to the pipe dreams of a what to be owner who spends money like a drunken sailor. Basically 1 team, with 1 owner, with 1 set of books that investors will have ample access to...

After all, he's not trying to sell this as a gate, otherwise why would these teams be playing in modest sized stadiums? Plus, to get a wide national audience we gave away the first 5 years of TV revenue... All gates will be available for FREE via a free app... It all goes back to obtaining a following, not having them pay for it. Money will come from other business partners or advertising based upon these numbers.

It all boils down to if there is enough interest if extending the football viewing season by 3 more months for the football fan. I have no doubt they can assemble a product worth watching, but will people want to watch? One of the things they have going for them is that they are not competing against other football leagues and trying to steal their fans as their schedule doesn't overlap with anyone's. This plus it happening during the winter months here and there is not as much to do as there would be in the summer or fall.

In the end, if it fails, it won't be because investors where swindled, or he thought he was big enough to take on the NFL and compete head to head, it will be because the fans will be telling him, 6 months of football is all I'm interested in...
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #128 on: December 05, 2018, 07:00:35 PM »

I agree. We'd probably miss out on the Cameron Wakes and Jon Ryans of the world. Not a huge deal, but those guys are good for marketing the CFL even among American football circles.

plus, there will be a whole different group of guys that may be interested in playing pro ball now that before didn't want to commit to 7 month in a foreign country. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I believe the pool of available players will probably grow, not shrink, and the AAF will be getting players that are not in the same pool of players the CFL is currently drawing from. Sure, there will be some overlap but the most part there is plenty to good around.
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booch
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« Reply #129 on: December 05, 2018, 07:12:50 PM »

Agreed...the availability of players was never going to really be the issue...but I just don't think that the U.S public at large will really care about it even with the angle of former College starts being allocated to their regional team.

My experience in playing down there was that if it wasn't NFL...or NCAA Div 1 ball...most don't give a ****..and with no t.v revenue and sponsorship/advertisement/commercials to go with that, and most likely a sagging gate revenue...I can't see it lasting. The hopes of the NFL buying it up too, is just a far sighted pipe dream...NFL tried that before, and aren't in the business of losing money, nor do they hitch their brand on something percieved as "minor league" or inferior

They don't have a minor league as they don't need it..The players they want from draft classes are 9 times out of 10 pro ready, and they have the CFL to watch the guys who fall through the cracks, or the tweeners develop and can just grab then from there ater a year or 2 of far superior ball/competition...and the rule diferences are irrelevant as the guys they generally poach grew up playing American Ball anyway, and from experience going back from playing Canadian Ball to American Ball is soooo much easier...and you usually go back as a better all around conditioned athlete to boot
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Stretch
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« Reply #130 on: December 05, 2018, 07:19:06 PM »


I would say that all of these leagues before them were dependent of the team owner to keep successful with his team. Team starts losing money, owner quits, walks away. That won't happen here, one person/entity owns all of the teams and will determine how money is spent and where is it spent. Their investment isn't pinned to the pipe dreams of a what to be owner who spends money like a drunken sailor. Basically 1 team, with 1 owner, with 1 set of books that investors will have ample access to...

I know it's not the best comparison for many reasons, but isn't that how the XFL 1.0 operated?
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Stretch
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« Reply #131 on: December 05, 2018, 07:21:25 PM »

It all boils down to if there is enough interest if extending the football viewing season by 3 more months for the football fan. I have no doubt they can assemble a product worth watching, but will people want to watch? One of the things they have going for them is that they are not competing against other football leagues and trying to steal their fans as their schedule doesn't overlap with anyone's. This plus it happening during the winter months here and there is not as much to do as there would be in the summer or fall.

I think that is the key. They'd just have to hope that the football fans in their target audience aren't also fans of NCAA March Madness, or MLB Spring Training, or late season NBA or NHL, or NASCAR, or...
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GCn18
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« Reply #132 on: December 05, 2018, 08:04:48 PM »

I think that is the key. They'd just have to hope that the football fans in their target audience aren't also fans of NCAA March Madness, or MLB Spring Training, or late season NBA or NHL, or NASCAR, or...

or fishing...or spending time outdoors in the spring...or many, many other pursuits that spring brings.
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GCn18
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« Reply #133 on: December 05, 2018, 08:07:00 PM »

I agree. We'd probably miss out on the Cameron Wakes and Jon Ryans of the world. Not a huge deal, but those guys are good for marketing the CFL even among American football circles.

They are, but nowadays the Wake's and the Ryans wouldn't be here for more than a season. Since the NFL practice rosters extended those type of players don't shake loose much anymore.
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lenny
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« Reply #134 on: December 05, 2018, 08:40:06 PM »

plus, there will be a whole different group of guys that may be interested in playing pro ball now that before didn't want to commit to 7 month in a foreign country. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I believe the pool of available players will probably grow, not shrink, and the AAF will be getting players that are not in the same pool of players the CFL is currently drawing from. Sure, there will be some overlap but the most part there is plenty to good around.

Also factor in the XFL just announced they start operations in 2020 with eight cities.

XFL.com
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