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Author Topic: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?  (Read 5692 times)
blue girl
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« Reply #105 on: December 03, 2018, 08:35:23 PM »

IMO the AAF is going to make our scouts work harder to find players that fit our league. Whether it succeeds or not I guess we'll find out. I know that I would watch it if I could but then I'll watch any kind of football.  Cheesy
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #106 on: December 03, 2018, 09:41:32 PM »

First, thanks to all of you that have extended kind words related to my return, much appreciated! I'll go back and hit your comments again but there was some good stuff in there that I would like to respond to, but, relative to the current conversation, here are a couple of pieces I picked up on line...

Ebersol said the AAF had the financial backing to sustain itself through any early growing pains.

"I think where businesses like this fail is that they expect to have ludicrous and unrealistic ticket and media-deal projections in Year 1," Ebersol said. "Our investors here understand that it's a seven-to-10-year plan."


and this I found on a message board...

"AAF is backed by venture capital(much like a Tech start-up).Some of the investors include
Peter Thiel, Peter Chernin, and Colony Capital.The objective is to eventually have the NFL
buy an equity stake that eventually leads to a complete buyout and thus become the true
official minor league of the NFL.The NFL has historically avoided the initial costs that would
be associated with such a project and this is an attempt to have someone else do the heavy
lifting.The NFL old guard(Jerry Jones,Bob Kraft) are going to be replaced by their children soon,
who are business school/beancounter types.They will see the value in buying it. 

Can it survive it's initial season?
I would count on it(Peter Thiel does not spend his money foolishly). 2020 could be a different
story with The XFL coming into the picture.This is why you see them being very public with
their salary offers.They want to lock up as many of the street free agents that are currently
available. (this is before the next wave of NFL cuts arrive after Labor Day).

Is this going to have an effect on player recruitment?
Considering the fact that the current crop of CFL personnel people don't scout FCS/D2/D3 players
for philosophical reasons(Dave Ritchie mentality).The NFLPA is going to be very interested in
trying to use The XFL/AAF player membership as a bargaining chip in labor negotiations in 2021.
(games played = Pension points).That will be very enticing to potential players/agents.
The CFL's cost cutting measures on the personnel side are not doing themselves any favors.
The next two off-season recruitment cycles are going to be very interesting. "



found both to be interesting...
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theaardvark
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« Reply #107 on: December 03, 2018, 11:25:43 PM »

I guess if the investors realize the potential that it will not make it to black ink, nevermind being bought out by the NFL (who could easily start thier own again if AAF proves successful and they price themselves out of the market).  I guess selling them on selling to the NFL at a huge profit is enough of a carrot to dangle for them to speculate. 

As an investor, though, I'd look at this as waaaay too risky.  Too much downside...
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blue girl
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« Reply #108 on: December 03, 2018, 11:38:33 PM »

I'm pretty sure that these people have done their research and wouldn't make a bad investment. Perhaps they're willing to take a loss now because they fell that there will be a big payoff in the end. I do agree with Chevelle that people are being turned off by the NFL. This may be the perfect time to start a new league.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #109 on: December 03, 2018, 11:51:23 PM »

Thanks for that assessment, Chevelle.  Seems really thought out and a great perspective to the new league.  You're right in that a lot of players end up missing out on the NFL and the CFL due to multiple reasons, and this gives them a chance to continue to pursue the dream of playing football.  And I like the health insurance and education approach they are taking. 

I think best case scenario is that the league works in tandem with the football leagues already in place and that there are enough quality players to go around.  It does place a greater emphasis on scouting for CFL teams than before, as there will be more demand for the top tier players, so some "diamond in the rough" type digging may need to occur. 

As a side note, it's interesting to see how more pro football is being developed, when just yesterday I read an article about how fewer kids are getting involved in football due to cost and injury concerns (especially with greater concussion awareness).  Granted, the article was talking about Canada (which made me a touch nervous for our national scouting capabilities 5-8 years from now when these high school kids become eligible for pros and there just aren't the numbers there used to be).  It's an interesting contemplation, that there is growing demand for watching football and increasing numbers of pro leagues, but when it comes to actually putting our kids in football, it seems that demand is shrinking.  Is it the same case where you are?

Curious to see how things all pan out in the end...

I would say that football here is akin to what hockey is for the Canadian youth. While soccer is played almost everywhere here in the states it doesn't have the appeal or a fan base outside of the parents and relatives of those that are participating. Not to say that in another 20 the situation may change, but I doubt it. I live right smack dab in the middle of Missouri, a small rural community of around 4,100 people, and have all my life, but football is king here. In fact the majority of the area here is similar, kids start playing organized flag football in elementary school and when in either the 5th or 6th grade start tackle football. Once they get to the 7th grade they play 'real' football in the school's conference made up of other area school and the balance of their schedule with any other school they can schedule.

The town that I live in was considered a powerhouse in Class 2 and at times Class 3 until 3 years ago when we lost our coach.  There are 6 classes of size based upon school enrollment which is reviewed and assignment to your proper class every 2 years in order to allow schools to compete against other schools of similar size. Before we lost our coach we had a very good 20 year run where we won 1 Class 3 State Championship, runner up twice, and the quarter finals multiple times, usually getting beat by the eventual state champion. We won 17 conference titles as well plus, their was a 5+ year run where we didn't lose a single regular season game.  In fact, since 1968 there have been 32 state championships and 19 championship game appearance by area schools with 40 or miles of here.  About 6 years ago we finally abandoned our old grass field and build a million dollar plus turf stadium complete with video board. It's the place to be on Friday nights in the fall, place is packed.

So, you may think that our situation is more the exception than the rule, but it's not. It's similar through out Missouri. Growing up in a small school we were only offered 3 sports; football, basketball, and track. We've since added a few more but small schools, small budgets. Plus, without having a booming metropolis with 100's of distractions, high school sports are where kids gravitate to. I've been going to Friday night games since I graduated high school, like I said place is packed. In fact, you can watch most games online and all state championship games are actually televised on Fox Midwest Sports channel during the thanksgiving weekend. I follow all classes of Missouri high school football as I do NCAA, NFL, and now CFL football.

Having a storied or winning program always helps, but, in the last 3 years combined we've only won 3 games, lol. Yet attendance is amazing, full house every week. Kids start young and play through out their high school career where for most that is where it ends. Being a small school we don't get a lot of big college here to recruit our kids. 
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #110 on: December 03, 2018, 11:57:02 PM »

I guess if the investors realize the potential that it will not make it to black ink, nevermind being bought out by the NFL (who could easily start thier own again if AAF proves successful and they price themselves out of the market).  I guess selling them on selling to the NFL at a huge profit is enough of a carrot to dangle for them to speculate. 

As an investor, though, I'd look at this as waaaay too risky.  Too much downside...


Considering the entry cost of an NFL team is a billion dollars... hard to get into the club these days...

In all honesty, I can see NFL teams paying the AAF to take their fringe players to develop for them. There is only so much you can progress running on the scout team or holding a clip board. Plus, there is a reason that the AAF only has 1 entity that owns the entire operation, otherwise Ebersol would have reduced his risk by selling franchises, but that's just my opinion... If nothing else, I see the AAF and the XFL consolidating into one leauge if nothing else.  To many close ties between the 2 owners to just have been a coincident...
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lenny
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« Reply #111 on: December 03, 2018, 11:57:42 PM »

Never knew their long term plan was a buyout to function as a minor league feeder and development league like the AHL--->NHL. This is workable in the NHL because attendance averages around 5000-6000 and the salaries are related to around 23 players. Double that for football and I would seriously think their attendance figures would cripple such a league. Given this long-term plan I think many players thinking about this have to reconsider its viability or lack of same. They might wait until this long-term plan can actually come to fruition if it has any hope of viability.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #112 on: December 04, 2018, 12:05:27 AM »

Thank you Chevelle, for your detailed and clearly stated run down on the new league.  I hope it succeeds and, unlike some, do not see it as a threat to the CFL.  Sure, some players will choose to go there but there is no shortage.
Blue Newt has hit on a far bigger threat which will, I believe, change all football in time.  I refer to head injuries and insurance related difficulties.  My background is in Rugby Union and already, in that sport,  there have been rule changes related to the tackle etc that are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.  I feel it is inevitable that similar changes will have to be made in football, beyond what we have already seen in more stringent application of dangerous play situation.

your right in regards to the inevitable risk of injury in a contact sport, but honestly, we don't really hear much about significant injuries at the junior high and high school level. I think these thinks really come into play once these kids get to college because by then they've grown into men. They are bigger, stronger, and faster that we were 'back in the day'. Weight and strength training is a required course for athletes these days at the high school level, but you really see the transformation of these kids once they get to college. But as you know, all it takes is one injury and the landscape of sports at all levels could change in a heartbeat.

As kids we played organized sports with equipment that you wouldn't be allowed to step onto a field with now a days. During summer, or after school there were always pick up games with kids playing with no equipment and we all lived. That why I say that the real serious, life changing risk is once the kids turn into men or woman at the college level.

I've also seen reports on tv that claim there are as many injuries, or more, in soccer as there are in football as well. Most centered around 'heading' the ball...
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #113 on: December 04, 2018, 12:15:27 AM »

Never knew their long term plan was a buyout to function as a minor league feeder and development league like the AHL--->NHL. This is workable in the NHL because attendance averages around 5000-6000 and the salaries are related to around 23 players. Double that for football and I would seriously think their attendance figures would cripple such a league. Given this long-term plan I think many players thinking about this have to reconsider its viability or lack of same. They might wait until this long-term plan can actually come to fruition if it has any hope of viability.

this is where the regional assignment of players come into play.  If they can get the NCAA fans to buy into the league and get their butts into the  seats it shouldn't be a problem, but that is yet to be seen. Birmingham has already started the construction of a new 45,000 seat (I believe that number is right) for the Iron and they haven't played a down yet! Supposed to be down by the 2020 season.

Football is big business here, as I've said before, our Tigers put 60,000 in the seats at every home game and we have one of the smaller stadiums in the SEC. And these seats aren't cheap, the tickets are. I believe you can buy a season ticket for something like $400 per seat, but, you also have to make a contribution of at least $1,500 and up to $10,000 per seat to the Tigers Scholarship fund, plus, buy a parking pass. In order to upgrade your seats, you earn points for consecutive years of being a STH and the amount of money you have contributed. Needless to say, the wait list for seats is very long, upgrading your seat, even longer...l
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3rdand1.5
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« Reply #114 on: December 04, 2018, 11:40:04 AM »

Very interesting perspective Chevy. Great to have you back posting. I am not sure if the league will last or ever be a true a NFL "farm league" but I am interested to watch it. I am sure it will have some impact on the CFL, but that's ok, perhaps it will help bring parity to our league. I believe that US college puts out enough players for both the new leagues and the NFL/CFL. It may have a ripple effect and get even more kids playing. It will be up to the CFL to educate "mericans' more on our game.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #115 on: December 04, 2018, 02:14:46 PM »

Very interesting perspective Chevy. Great to have you back posting. I am not sure if the league will last or ever be a true a NFL "farm league" but I am interested to watch it. I am sure it will have some impact on the CFL, but that's ok, perhaps it will help bring parity to our league. I believe that US college puts out enough players for both the new leagues and the NFL/CFL. It may have a ripple effect and get even more kids playing. It will be up to the CFL to educate "mericans' more on our game.

Thanks! it's great to be back, missed this place... 

while I was sitting here eating breakfast and reading threads, a realization came to me that I found... interesting and a bit telling... I think it had to do with your statement relative to league parity...

I've been to Canada and watched more Bomber games in person at IFG than I have been to any NFL games, even though I've had as many as 2 professional NFL teams within 120 miles of my home for years... but, I've been to countless Tigers game where I didn't even have tickets (sold out games) where me and my friends tailgated and watched the game on a big screen in the parking lot...  but I couldn't tell or begin to count how many high school football games I go to, or have been to over the years...

I had to ask myself why is that? the answer was simple, and took about a second to come up with...  even though it is an undisputed mindset that the NFL is the 'best' league when it comes to the talent put on the field, which most believe is the measuring stick for league success, it's just too **** expensive in my opinion. This coming from a man that could actually afford to do so it I wanted, I just don't find the value in it. Preseaon game tickets start at about $250 per seat and go up from there for the NFL, forget about regular season and playoff tickets for an NFL game, not to mention $8 bottles of water, $9 hot dogs... I've got better ways to spend my money... It cost me over $1,200 to go to the Banjo Bowl, didn't bat an eye at doing so, I'll be back next year as well... but, I found value in doing so, I got to go to Canada for starters, bonus... I had field side seats, and never left them once I got there and even though we lost, had the time of my life and enjoyed the game so much...

So why is that? For me it is how I feel I identify with those on the field and my interest in supporting their endeavors...  as you go backwards in perceived 'best product put on the field'  in regards to talent, my interest actually goes up. I thought to myself, well it's probably just me, but I don't think so. Unlike the NFL, I find my self as interested in what pieces or players we as a team are going to go after each year to make our club better, whether it's the CFL or the NCAA. Then you follow these undertakings as intently as you do the actual games, whether it's off season pursuit of free agents in the CFL, or the recruits from the 10's of thousands of high school kids in the USA. Then, you get to make your judgement and actually see it through whether you're right or wrong... with college ball you become the fan of the underdog... so few actually make the NFL, you know that going in, but you have most kids for 4 years... then you always feel that your underdogs are better than everyone else's , if only they were to get that chance ... you all should be thinking LDW right now for me... so you support them and hope that they get that chance... the 'life' around the game, for me, becomes bigger than the game itself in most cases...

many of you here would have sworn that I was related to LDW, or had a personal relationship with him when I showed up here at the beginning of the 2017 season. It wasn't the case but I think it showed my passion and excitement that my 'underdog' may have just got that chance and he was going to prove to the world he was worthy.  it sounds silly when you say it out loud, but, for these 'working man leagues' the game actually pulls at your heart and you develop feeling for those that are breaking their back just trying to earn a chance...

I think deep down I have my reservations about whether these additional league will be successful or not, but I'll continue to support them because it gives my underdogs a place to play... the juice is worth the squeeze... 
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GCn18
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« Reply #116 on: December 04, 2018, 02:43:59 PM »

Thanks! it's great to be back, missed this place... 

while I was sitting here eating breakfast and reading threads, a realization came to me that I found... interesting and a bit telling... I think it had to do with your statement relative to league parity...

I've been to Canada and watched more Bomber games in person at IFG than I have been to any NFL games, even though I've had as many as 2 professional NFL teams within 120 miles of my home for years... but, I've been to countless Tigers game where I didn't even have tickets (sold out games) where me and my friends tailgated and watched the game on a big screen in the parking lot...  but I couldn't tell or begin to count how many high school football games I go to, or have been to over the years...

I had to ask myself why is that? the answer was simple, and took about a second to come up with...  even though it is an undisputed mindset that the NFL is the 'best' league when it comes to the talent put on the field, which most believe is the measuring stick for league success, it's just too **** expensive in my opinion. This coming from a man that could actually afford to do so it I wanted, I just don't find the value in it. Preseaon game tickets start at about $250 per seat and go up from there for the NFL, forget about regular season and playoff tickets for an NFL game, not to mention $8 bottles of water, $9 hot dogs... I've got better ways to spend my money... It cost me over $1,200 to go to the Banjo Bowl, didn't bat an eye at doing so, I'll be back next year as well... but, I found value in doing so, I got to go to Canada for starters, bonus... I had field side seats, and never left them once I got there and even though we lost, had the time of my life and enjoyed the game so much...

So why is that? For me it is how I feel I identify with those on the field and my interest in supporting their endeavors...  as you go backwards in perceived 'best product put on the field'  in regards to talent, my interest actually goes up. I thought to myself, well it's probably just me, but I don't think so. Unlike the NFL, I find my self as interested in what pieces or players we as a team are going to go after each year to make our club better, whether it's the CFL or the NCAA. Then you follow these undertakings as intently as you do the actual games, whether it's off season pursuit of free agents in the CFL, or the recruits from the 10's of thousands of high school kids in the USA. Then, you get to make your judgement and actually see it through whether you're right or wrong... with college ball you become the fan of the underdog... so few actually make the NFL, you know that going in, but you have most kids for 4 years... then you always feel that your underdogs are better than everyone else's , if only they were to get that chance ... you all should be thinking LDW right now for me... so you support them and hope that they get that chance... the 'life' around the game, for me, becomes bigger than the game itself in most cases...

many of you here would have sworn that I was related to LDW, or had a personal relationship with him when I showed up here at the beginning of the 2017 season. It wasn't the case but I think it showed my passion and excitement that my 'underdog' may have just got that chance and he was going to prove to the world he was worthy.  it sounds silly when you say it out loud, but, for these 'working man leagues' the game actually pulls at your heart and you develop feeling for those that are breaking their back just trying to earn a chance...

I think deep down I have my reservations about whether these additional league will be successful or not, but I'll continue to support them because it gives my underdogs a place to play... the juice is worth the squeeze... 

The underdog league's are certainly worthy of the respect that some give them.
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GCn18
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« Reply #117 on: December 04, 2018, 02:46:49 PM »

Never knew their long term plan was a buyout to function as a minor league feeder and development league like the AHL--->NHL. This is workable in the NHL because attendance averages around 5000-6000 and the salaries are related to around 23 players. Double that for football and I would seriously think their attendance figures would cripple such a league. Given this long-term plan I think many players thinking about this have to reconsider its viability or lack of same. They might wait until this long-term plan can actually come to fruition if it has any hope of viability.

If their goal is to get the NFL to buy them out they are risking quite a bit. The majority of NFL owners decided to fold NFL Europe because they felt it was a huge waste of money. If the AAF can't clearly demonstrate they are not a money pit the NFL will let them go the way of every other secondary football league before them....off to twist in the breeze and die.
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Norm W
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« Reply #118 on: December 04, 2018, 04:32:45 PM »

Football is big business here, as I've said before, our Tigers put 60,000 in the seats at every home game and we have one of the smaller stadiums in the SEC. And these seats aren't cheap, the tickets are. I believe you can buy a season ticket for something like $400 per seat, but, you also have to make a contribution of at least $1,500 and up to $10,000 per seat to the Tigers Scholarship fund, plus, buy a parking pass. In order to upgrade your seats, you earn points for consecutive years of being a STH and the amount of money you have contributed. Needless to say, the wait list for seats is very long, upgrading your seat, even longer...l

College ball big business? That's an understatement, it's a licence to print money... For the most part it has all the revenue streams that the NFL has and one expense that all other Pro leagues have that they don't.... Player salaries.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #119 on: December 04, 2018, 05:51:59 PM »

College ball big business? That's an understatement, it's a licence to print money... For the most part it has all the revenue streams that the NFL has and one expense that all other Pro leagues have that they don't.... Player salaries.

A solid case could be made against the NCAA for exploiting student athletes to fill their coffers and subsidize the education of the rest of the student body.  Spenser Strasmore will be pushing this argument hard in the next season of Ballers, he may yet change the world!
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 06:38:16 PM by Throw Long Bannatyne » Logged
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