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Author Topic: Jonathon Rose Suspended  (Read 2317 times)
Ridermania
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« on: November 20, 2018, 02:24:07 PM »

http://3downnation.com/2018/11/20/cfl-suspends-redblacks-db-jonathon-rose-grey-cup/

Jonathon Rose suspended for the Grey Cup, he will most likely appeal the suspension so he can play on Sunday.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2018, 02:26:04 PM »

Good. He deserves it.
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Tehedra
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2018, 02:30:33 PM »

He does deserve it.
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blue_gold_84
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Fort Hew


« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2018, 02:31:25 PM »

Good. He deserves it.

Agreed. That a was sickening display and he does not deserve to play in the big game.
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Norm W
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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2018, 02:35:17 PM »

But due process, which is built into the current CBA will provide the loophole that will allow him to play in the big game.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2018, 03:03:15 PM »

Guess you can't truck stick a referee in the CFL. That's too bad. I thought it was exciting and would probably keep the penalties down if the refs knew there was a chance they'd get laid out after a bad call.
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GCn18
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2018, 03:04:53 PM »

It was one of the stupidest things I've seen on a CFL field. Right up there with when the Argos had a team brawl on their sidelines.
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blue newt
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2018, 03:48:46 PM »

Would an appeal even be resolved by Sunday?  And what grounds would he have to win it?  The video footage is pretty clear that not only did he push the official, but that it was intentional (ie, he wasn't swinging for another player and swiped an unseen official instead, the ref was clearly in his line of sight while he shoved him).

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Blue In BC
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2018, 03:53:04 PM »

I can't believe he'd win an appeal. The suspension should be upheld IMO. The new CBA needs to address the " appeal " aspect of suspensions so that process can be done but done quickly, not weeks later.

While the suspension is in force ( pending appeal ) he isn't allowed to practice as far as I know. Whether that is a critical aspect of who the Redblacks game plan around is an interesting question.
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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2018, 04:22:59 PM »

Guess you can't truck stick a referee in the CFL. That's too bad. I thought it was exciting and would probably keep the penalties down if the refs knew there was a chance they'd get laid out after a bad call.
In terms of refs and bad calls, I still think that the coach's challenge should be modified. If a coach challenges a call and it's ruled in his favour, then he should get to keep the challenge for use later in the game. Why should a coach lose his challenge due to a bad call by the refs? In effect, the coach is getting punished for correcting a bad call.
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Knocker42
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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2018, 04:44:33 PM »

In terms of refs and bad calls, I still think that the coach's challenge should be modified. If a coach challenges a call and it's ruled in his favour, then he should get to keep the challenge for use later in the game. Why should a coach lose his challenge due to a bad call by the refs? In effect, the coach is getting punished for correcting a bad call.
Absolutely.  I know they made the change because there were too many challenges but your point is well taken.  The team should not be punished because of a correctable call.  Retain the challenge every time the ruling favours the challenge.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2018, 04:50:01 PM »

I disagree. Using your challenge to fix a bad call isn't wasting it. Bad or no calls are the exact reason that challenges were brought in in the first place. Giving coaches one more challenge if they're right, just means more challenges being made.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2018, 04:54:01 PM »

In terms of refs and bad calls, I still think that the coach's challenge should be modified. If a coach challenges a call and it's ruled in his favour, then he should get to keep the challenge for use later in the game. Why should a coach lose his challenge due to a bad call by the refs? In effect, the coach is getting punished for correcting a bad call.

I think the only modification worth exploring would be allowing a coach to keep his challenge for one additional change if he wins the first one. But that's it.

Two max.
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Knocker42
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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2018, 04:54:58 PM »

More justified challenges would not be a bad thing.  They would never have more than one and thus would not use it in an iffy situation. Correcting officials' errors cannot be bad!
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Norm W
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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2018, 05:16:01 PM »

I can't believe he'd win an appeal. The suspension should be upheld IMO. The new CBA needs to address the " appeal " aspect of suspensions so that process can be done but done quickly, not weeks later.

While the suspension is in force ( pending appeal ) he isn't allowed to practice as far as I know. Whether that is a critical aspect of who the Redblacks game plan around is an interesting question.

At this stage you appeal, it's not about winning the appeal. While the appeal is pending you are "made whole" i.e. You can practice and play... otherwise you are being summarily punished before your day in court.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2018, 05:49:24 PM »

At this stage you appeal, it's not about winning the appeal. While the appeal is pending you are "made whole" i.e. You can practice and play... otherwise you are being summarily punished before your day in court.

I don't believe that is correct but I could be incorrect. Just another reason the process needs to be expedited. There is nothing to justify him being able to play this weekend. Previous suspensions have been reduced in length but I'm not aware of any 1 game suspensions not being upheld.

This is not a close call. He pushed the ref with both hands. It's not like there was some unintended incidental contact.
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« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2018, 05:58:00 PM »

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With Ottawa DB Jonathan Rose appealing his suspension there is no chance his hearing happens before Sunday. So end result will be league stands-up for officials, players association stands-up for player, Rose plays. #CFL
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2018, 05:59:36 PM »

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With Ottawa DB Jonathan Rose appealing his suspension there is no chance his hearing happens before Sunday. So end result will be league stands-up for officials, players association stands-up for player, Rose plays. #CFL

If this is true it needs to change in the new CBA. Total BS. Rose ( or a given player ) could be out of the league in 2019. Then what?
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2018, 06:04:59 PM »

That is garbage. He does not deserve to play. The appeal process is flawed.
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Norm W
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« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2018, 06:05:40 PM »

Like I said you appeal, it's not about whether you win or not, its about playing in the Grey Cup. If its a regular season game you take the hit and sit. Too much money on the table to sit now.
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The Zipp
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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2018, 06:08:59 PM »

If this is true it needs to change in the new CBA. Total BS. Rose ( or a given player ) could be out of the league in 2019. Then what?

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If Jonathan Rose loses his appeal post-Grey Cup he would serve suspension in 2019. But as a free agent he could serve suspension with another team or not at all. #CFL
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2018, 06:14:34 PM »

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If Jonathan Rose loses his appeal post-Grey Cup he would serve suspension in 2019. But as a free agent he could serve suspension with another team or not at all. #CFL

That's a big problem any way you think about it. How is it fair to a possibly a new team? Whether the next game was the 1st game of the season or the Grey Cup is irrelevant. A suspension should be immediate otherwise it's toothless.
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Waffler
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« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2018, 06:16:03 PM »

Be interesting to see what happens in Grey Cup game. Spotlight on both officials and Rose. Hopefully any calls against him are clear cut.
Agree he is garbage to push a ref.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2018, 06:19:10 PM »

I don't think he's going to get any special attention with refs watching him. It was not a repeat offense.

Players that take cheaps shots on opponents throughout the year or career probably get closer looks though. Kyries Hebert for example.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2018, 06:20:58 PM »

Not in the same category at all, but you could hear Andrew Harris loudly berating an official for a good 15-20 seconds after he took a holding penalty late in the 3rd Q.  I don't care who it is, verbally abusing an official should not be allowed in this day and age and is a no-go now in most sports leagues.  Questioning an official's call is no problem but as soon as a player brings emotions or gestures into the conversation a flag should be thrown.
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Norm W
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« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2018, 06:21:59 PM »

That's a big problem any way you think about it. How is it fair to a possibly a new team? Whether the next game was the 1st game of the season or the Grey Cup is irrelevant. A suspension should be immediate otherwise it's toothless.

The "new" team knows what they are renting, they kicked the tires and read the disclaimers  Grin You are unlikely to see any changes happen in this area, highly unlikely the players association would give up their right to appeal disciplinary action taken by the league against one of its members.  
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lenny
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« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2018, 06:26:26 PM »

That's 16,000 for a win and 8,000 for a loss out the window  if he remains suspended. Surprised if there is not an appeal even if it is heard after the Grey Cup. And I see he has.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 06:28:36 PM by lenny » Logged
TBURGESS
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« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2018, 07:07:00 PM »

Not in the same category at all, but you could hear Andrew Harris loudly berating an official for a good 15-20 seconds after he took a holding penalty late in the 3rd Q.  I don't care who it is, verbally abusing an official should not be allowed in this day and age and is a no-go now in most sports leagues.  Questioning an official's call is no problem but as soon as a player brings emotions or gestures into the conversation a flag should be thrown.
I was yelling at my TV "Get outta there Harris, he's going to throw his flag". Luckily it didn't happen.

As for the Rose situation... Ambrosie prides himself on being proactive. This would be a great time to speed up the appeal process while everyone is already in Edmonton anyway. Make the final decision on Saturday.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2018, 08:20:54 PM »

Everyone is in Edmonton this week, just the the hearing on Friday.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2018, 09:13:42 PM »

Like I said you appeal, it's not about whether you win or not, its about playing in the Grey Cup. If its a regular season game you take the hit and sit. Too much money on the table to sit now.

The Grey Cup aspect should be irrelevant. Every regular season game potentially goes to deciding making the playoffs or ranking within the division.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2018, 09:24:39 PM »

I take it back. I guess you are allowed to suplex-slam the ref down. Look out, Andre!
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Tehedra
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« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2018, 09:47:37 PM »

Not to mention the penalty wasn't questionable in the first place they were well out of bounds before he flipped over the player. Then aftewrads he had to be pushed off the player he injured and then he went up and pushed the ref over the injured player and pile of bodies. It is sickening, I would hope if the appeal proves he was guilty that they can go well you shouldn't have been in that game so no "bonus" money for you. Play off money is considered bonus money isn't it? So it probably isn't legally binding to pay either.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2018, 10:24:51 PM »

I don't understand how there cannot be an immediate tribunal on his appeal.  Why any delay?  Do it tomorrow, lots of time before the GC to make a final decision, this is a no brainer, there is no doubt what was done, and what the penalty is for it. 

Any delay is a way the CFL is not wanting to upset the CFLPA, but how the CFLPA could be upset over Rose getting tossed for the GC is crazy.  I bet there isn't a player in the CFLPA, INCLUDING Rose, who thinks that a one game suspension for this act is unwarranted. 

The fact that it represents a payday that could be the equivalent of a game cheque a player making $288k / yr would get... remember, another CFLPA member would get that cheque if Rose does not.  So how does the CFLPA defend Rose in this case?  How do they justify him playing this weekend?
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« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2018, 10:37:31 PM »

If I was football official I would be utterly disgusted with this system. So you can punch an official and play the next week? Wow, sickening.

I hate both teams won?t really be watching.
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dd
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« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2018, 11:43:55 PM »

The league has got to act promptly, as allowing him to play in the GC is an injustice as there's no guarantee he's even in the league next year. If the league doesn't act, and he is scheduled to play, I wonder if the officials don't take the field in protest. Ambrosie has got to act in Edmonton to bring some severity to the situation. No way the guy should play nor get a cheque for the GC game.
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« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2018, 11:48:20 PM »

The league has got to act promptly, as allowing him to play in the GC is an injustice as there's no guarantee he's even in the league next year. If the league doesn't act, and he is scheduled to play, I wonder if the officials don't take the field in protest. Ambrosie has got to act in Edmonton to bring some severity to the situation. No way the guy should play nor get a cheque for the GC game.
if I was an official I?d boycott until fixed.
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dd
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« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2018, 11:50:30 PM »

so would I. No way do you stand by and allow this level of physical abuse to happen and let the guy play because of a loophole. Ambrosie had better act promptly and ensure justice is served and he doesn't play in the GC.
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2018, 03:11:18 AM »

so would I. No way do you stand by and allow this level of physical abuse to happen and let the guy play because of a loophole. Ambrosie had better act promptly and ensure justice is served and he doesn't play in the GC.
he can?t or won?t whatever I give up on this years season. GO JETS GO!
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Pigskin
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« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2018, 02:40:44 PM »

Ambrosie's statement on TSN last night was weak. You can't touch an official, but we don't want players out of the Grey Cup game. Some Ottawa players are defending his actions.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2018, 03:55:55 PM »

Ambrosie's statement on TSN last night was weak. You can't touch an official, but we don't want players out of the Grey Cup game. Some Ottawa players are defending his actions.

There is ZERO defense. Players just don't want to see a starter not playing and a big GC game check win or lose.
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drahgon
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« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2018, 04:11:54 PM »

...
As for the Rose situation... Ambrosie prides himself on being proactive. This would be a great time to speed up the appeal process while everyone is already in Edmonton anyway. Make the final decision on Saturday.

Exactly this! Pretty bush league if a player is allowed to play after what he did to the referee.
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bluengold204
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« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2018, 04:20:24 PM »

Let him play, ref more tripped over the pile on the ground than being pushed
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« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2018, 04:26:21 PM »

The official was on the ground because he was pushed by Rose.  Pretty clear in the video.  Whether the official was tripped or not in the process doesn't matter.  You can't put your hands on an official.
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Nic16
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« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2018, 05:11:37 PM »

Let him play, ref more tripped over the pile on the ground than being pushed

By chance...are you a legal aid lawyer?... Or just waiting for cataract surgery?  Wink
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« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2018, 05:32:12 PM »

Geez... Ambrosie is showing himself to be a proverbial tower of jello.

Which way is the wind blowing, Commissioner Windsock?
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« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2018, 05:36:10 PM »

I take it back. I guess you are allowed to suplex-slam the ref down. Look out, Andre!
ok ok hang on here if it?s Proulx ya he can be contacted, np. lol
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DarkDays
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« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2018, 05:38:26 PM »

By chance...are you a legal aid lawyer?... Or just waiting for cataract surgery?  Wink

"The kid ain't bad....he's just misunderstood...."
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2018, 05:41:49 PM »

Plus his RP penalty was one taken for an out of bounds hit and a body blow. Not exactly a close call on that part of the disqualification. Essentially he double dipped into an idiot move twice.

I lose all respect for Ambrosie if Rose plays.
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dd
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« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2018, 05:47:42 PM »

Geez... Ambrosie is showing himself to be a proverbial tower of jello.

Which way is the wind blowing, Commissioner Windsock?
Agree 100%. Ambrosie is making this league look totally weak and bush league.
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Leroy
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« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2018, 06:01:40 PM »

Randy Ambrosie is a joke.

No other league would treat the abuse of an official lightly.

I guess if it doesn't involve a 'Der he feels no pressure to protect people.
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Norm W
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« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2018, 06:12:51 PM »

I can only assume there's not a lot of union members posting in this thread. Doesn't matter how blatant the foul was or if they have it on tape from 15 different angles. They have a signed agreement between the two bodies that says he has the right to appeal any disciplinary action taken against him, he is exercising his negotiated right. If you were in his situation you would be doing the same thing... It's not about disrespecting referee's, not having the stones to stand up and take action, it's just following the process, rights and protections.

...and for the record no I'm not a union guy rep nor have I ever been employed with a company that is unionized.
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Leroy
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« Reply #51 on: November 21, 2018, 06:22:40 PM »

There is no CBA right that prevents him from putting out a statement saying that abusing an official is a cardinal sin. I guess in any major league outside of the CFL anyway. No 'Der no foul is Ambrosie's motto.

Look at how Wideman gets a huge suspension in the NHL for shoving a ref.

You cannot hit a ref...period.
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Norm W
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« Reply #52 on: November 21, 2018, 07:01:31 PM »

There is no CBA right that prevents him from putting out a statement saying that abusing an official is a cardinal sin. I guess in any major league outside of the CFL anyway. No 'Der no foul is Ambrosie's motto.

The league (Ambrosie) put out the following statement, didn't use the word cardinal sin but none the less they condemned the action and explained why.

"We are extremely reluctant to take an action that could prevent an athlete from joining his teammates for what may be the most important game of his life. But there is an another principle at stake, one which has very significant implications for our league and sport in general.

If we fail to send a strong signal when there is physical abuse of an official, whatever the circumstances, we risk sending the wrong message to not only the athletes in our league but young and aspiring athletes, coaches and even parents throughout sport. Officials are an important part of athletic competition, responsible for its integrity. While their contributions too often go unsung, we cannot allow them to be disrespected or, worse, abused.

For these reasons, the Canadian Football League has notified  Jonathan Rose of the Ottawa REDBLACKS that he is being assessed a one game suspension for pushing an official during last Sunday's Eastern Final in Ottawa."
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2018, 07:06:43 PM »

I can only assume there's not a lot of union members posting in this thread. Doesn't matter how blatant the foul was or if they have it on tape from 15 different angles. They have a signed agreement between the two bodies that says he has the right to appeal any disciplinary action taken against him, he is exercising his negotiated right. If you were in his situation you would be doing the same thing... It's not about disrespecting referee's, not having the stones to stand up and take action, it's just following the process, rights and protections.

...and for the record no I'm not a union guy rep nor have I ever been employed with a company that is unionized.

I spent 20 years in different unions. Doesn't mean my right should include a loophole for something as obvious as this infraction.

If I attack my boss with a crowbar, should I really be entitled to an appeal?

Actually for the record this did actually happen in one company I was employed.

EDIT: BTW the attack was not by me or on me. Large company with 600 employees.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 10:38:05 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2018, 07:23:33 PM »

I spent 20 years in different unions. Doesn't mean my right should include a loophole for something as obvious as this infraction.

If I attack my boss with a crowbar, should I really be entitled to an appeal?

Actually for the record this did actually happen in one company I was employed.
[/quote

 . Must have been pretty upset. Rose should get 5 games for sure. Even if he plays he might not even play next year. It will be more than one game.
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buckzumhoff
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« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2018, 07:25:19 PM »

I think Ottawa as a team should be fined. I think they set the tone in their dressing room. They were hitting late , always blatant taunting during the game. Ottawa has always laid dirty hits on receivers throughout the year. Even if a receiver is down they take an extra shot.
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Norm W
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« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2018, 07:25:58 PM »

None the less, in this case it does! Unless the tribunal forms, hears the case and rules on or before Saturday he's going to get to play. Don't like the game change the rules... which like I said is going to be an uphill climb. Would you give up next years CFL season over the right to an appeal clause in a CBA?  
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« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2018, 03:59:01 PM »

I can only assume there's not a lot of union members posting in this thread.

Pretty stupid assumption. I'm unionized at work and I don't agree with the way the appeal process is set up in most sports leagues.

Rose abused an official. That garbage is inexcusable and there should be an exception in this case based on that fact.
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Norm W
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« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2018, 05:06:50 PM »

Pretty stupid assumption. I'm unionized at work and I don't agree with the way the appeal process is set up in most sports leagues.

...and I gather you think you have the market cornered in intelligence? Sarcasm... tricky thing for some. So you don't agree with the way the appeal process is set up in most sports leagues, your opinion is noted. Which sport league processes do you like, which league has the best process? So if Roses name was replaced with yours, meaning you were in his shoes would your opinion change? I have yet to meet a unionized employee that won't exhaust every negotiated option that works in their favor when there is a grievance, including appeals.. regardless of how ridiculous the grievance actually is. An appeal process is a very basic component of a CBA, I'm actually shocked to hear a union person speak out against the employees right to an appeal and say he shouldn't get it.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2018, 05:16:02 PM »

In most situations the suspension or termination stands. The appeal if won would reinstate the individual with back pay. We see this all the time including in union situations. The fact this is sports shouldn't change that scenario.

If a police officer ( for example ) is thought to have done something wrong: He's either suspended or given desk duty. At times this may be for months or longer before final appeal decisions are concluded.


If Rose had pushed the ref in a pre season game would he have appealed missing the season opener due to a suspension.

This is all about not being able to play in the Grey Cup, the prestige and money that go with it. It should be ONLY about abuse of an official.

We could question whether the degree of severity changes the question as well. If a player actually punches a ref for example. IMO this falls into a more severe blatant abuse.

Needs to change in the new CBA.



« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 05:33:21 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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Norm W
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« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2018, 05:31:17 PM »

In most situations the suspension or termination stands. The appeal if won would reinstate the individual with back pay. We see this all the time including in union situations. The fact this is sports shouldn't change that scenario.

If a police officer ( for example ) is thought to have done something wrong: He's either suspended or given desk duty. At times this may be for months or longer before final appeal decisions are concluded.

If Rose had pushed the ref in a pre season game would he have appealed missing the season opener due to a suspension.

This is all about not being able to play in the Grey Cup. It should be ONLY about abuse of an official.

You are 100% correct, this is about playing in the Grey Cup and the potential loss of $16,000.00 in play-off bonus money. If it happened during the pre-season he may have elected to not appeal and simply accept the disciplinary action, but it's his choice and that is the point. It's in the contract between the players and the league, he gets to choose.  But he can't make them play the game over if he wins his appeal...
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2018, 05:39:16 PM »

You are 100% correct, this is about playing in the Grey Cup and the potential loss of $16,000.00 in play-off bonus money. If it happened during the pre-season he may have elected to not appeal and simply accept the disciplinary action, but it's his choice and that is the point. It's in the contract between the players and the league, he gets to choose.  But he can't make them play the game over if he wins his appeal...


I'd be curious to see the wording in the CBA about the timing of a suspension compared to the appeal process.

Regardless this needs to be corrected in the new CBA. Whether that means a speedier appeal process or some other means, this is not acceptable.

A pre appointed group of defense ( CFLPA ) and prosecution candidates could be created and an appeal done inside a few days.

What if the ref had sustained a back injury or broke his arm due to the push? Perhaps he would have been scheduled to ref in the GC and couldn't as a result. Where do you draw the line?



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« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2018, 05:44:21 PM »

...and I gather you think you have the market cornered in intelligence? Sarcasm... tricky thing for some. So you don't agree with the way the appeal process is set up in most sports leagues, your opinion is noted. Which sport league processes do you like, which league has the best process? So if Roses name was replaced with yours, meaning you were in his shoes would your opinion change? I have yet to meet a unionized employee that won't exhaust every negotiated option that works in their favor when there is a grievance, including appeals.. regardless of how ridiculous the grievance actually is. An appeal process is a very basic component of a CBA, I'm actually shocked to hear a union person speak out against the employees right to an appeal and say he shouldn't get it.

How does being presumptuous qualify as being sarcastic? At least we know you have the market cornered on class, eh... Spare the ad hominem nonsense.

What chaps my hide in this particular situation is the fact the appeal process works as a catch-all when in all reality, it should not. In fact, I'd argue it's demonstrably flawed in this case. A player assaulted an official, which is about a heinous an act as an athlete commit on during a game. That's a giant faux-pas and Rose has ostensibly gotten away with it for the time being. How is that reasonable? And my being in his shoes or not is totally irrelevant. I will say this, though: in his shoes, I wouldn't be idiotic enough to shove an official.

Just because I support collective bargaining doesn't mean I support every aspect of it. Unions are far from perfect and this situation shines a bright light on the very fact, IMO. If I assaulted someone on the job, I'd get union backing, which is my right. But I'd also be suspended without pay pending an investigation. Why should professional athletes be any different, especially when you consider the spotlight and privilege in which they are employed? His disgusting action should come with immediate and serious consequences. The fact he gets to not only appeal his punishment but then continue to play in the Grey Cup while the appeal process runs its course is absolutely preposterous.

If there is a league that gets it right in this particular instance, it's the NHL. See the Wideman suspension back in 2016.

If Rose had pushed the ref in a pre season game would he have appealed missing the season opener due to a suspension.

This is all about not being able to play in the Grey Cup, the prestige and money that go with it. It should be ONLY about abuse of an official.

We could question whether the degree of severity changes the question as well. If a player actually punches a ref for example. IMO this falls into a more severe blatant abuse.

Needs to change in the new CBA.

Bingo.
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Norm W
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« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2018, 06:00:41 PM »

"Roughly a month and a half after the controversial incident, the Dennis Wideman appeal process is over. And the NHL disagrees with the outcome.

Independent arbitrator James Oldham chopped the NHL's 20-game suspension of the Calgary Flames defenceman in half Friday, making it a 10-game ban. Wideman won't get back the extra nine games he's sat out, but he will be reimbursed $282,258.06 in lost pay."

Source was Sportsnet

So it would seem the NHL got it wrong and their discipline was later decided to be too punitive. The appeal process corrected it after the fact by reimbursing the player in excess of 200 K in lost wages. Some would argue this is the very reason why the player should be able to continue to play until the appeal of one-sided arbitrary league decisions are heard.
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« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2018, 08:33:22 PM »

"Roughly a month and a half after the controversial incident, the Dennis Wideman appeal process is over. And the NHL disagrees with the outcome.

Independent arbitrator James Oldham chopped the NHL's 20-game suspension of the Calgary Flames defenceman in half Friday, making it a 10-game ban. Wideman won't get back the extra nine games he's sat out, but he will be reimbursed $282,258.06 in lost pay."

Source was Sportsnet

So it would seem the NHL got it wrong and their discipline was later decided to be too punitive. The appeal process corrected it after the fact by reimbursing the player in excess of 200 K in lost wages. Some would argue this is the very reason why the player should be able to continue to play until the appeal of one-sided arbitrary league decisions are heard.

Bingo.
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Tehedra
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« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2018, 08:49:59 PM »

"Roughly a month and a half after the controversial incident, the Dennis Wideman appeal process is over. And the NHL disagrees with the outcome.

Independent arbitrator James Oldham chopped the NHL's 20-game suspension of the Calgary Flames defenceman in half Friday, making it a 10-game ban. Wideman won't get back the extra nine games he's sat out, but he will be reimbursed $282,258.06 in lost pay."

Source was Sportsnet

So it would seem the NHL got it wrong and their discipline was later decided to be too punitive. The appeal process corrected it after the fact by reimbursing the player in excess of 200 K in lost wages. Some would argue this is the very reason why the player should be able to continue to play until the appeal of one-sided arbitrary league decisions is heard.

The same argument can be made that you will not always win an appeal process, and you might be expected to provide back pay.  You still can't have a possibly abusive employee among the ranks, which means they should be relieved of their duties until a decision has been made.  For example, if this was a teacher who beat a child in a classroom that was suspended without pay.  No one would agree that the teacher should be allowed back into the classroom and continue to teach until the appeal process was complete.  If the teacher was proven innocent, the expectation is that they would be paid for the time they were not teaching and possibly even more for the hardships they went through.  In this argument in football I would expect the same, if he wins the appeal process and it is proven that he did not, in fact, abuse the official with intent, then he should be paid what he is due, however, he shouldn't get to touch a football or step a foot on the field until that appeal process has been completed.  Why?  Because the referees have the right to a safe work environment and until that process is won, it is sending the message that their work environment isn't important.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2018, 09:30:02 PM »

OK, I think all sides should be outraged that Rose may get to play.

Ref's cannot allow the abuse of an official to be tolerated, and even have enforcement delayed until a more convenient for the league/player/team.  Yes, I get that you want the best players out there.  But there is a reason there are rules and penalties.

Players should be upset that Rose not only hit an official, but plowed that offical into a pile that had an injured fellow player at the bottom if it.  Had teh player suffered a neck injury (which I thought he had, Rose looked like he had ripped his fricking head off), then the puch of an official on top of the injured player could have paralized / killed him.  Players should not tolerate being painted with the same brush as Rose... you are all guilty by association. 
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« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2018, 10:10:11 PM »

Rose s tackle was an attempt to injure?he grabbed the player by the head and then propelled his body the player twisting his head and then Slamming him to the ground.  That was not a necessary roughness, that was rough play, which is a game expulsion in itself.  Then he push the official which gotten kicked out of the game.  No way, no how should rise be allowed to play in the Grey cup game  in a league to take both rough play in fractions into account during the appeal and be suspended for two games.
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buckzumhoff
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« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2018, 11:25:28 PM »

One game , might as well give him nothing. most leagues if you touch a referee youre probably gone for good for several games. \Ottawa even treated it like a joke. But Ottawas coach didn't like it when Carter walked by him few years ago and made a big halabaloo about it. and Campbell confronted Carter. Campbell and Ottawa are on taking some type of roid.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #69 on: November 23, 2018, 02:35:31 AM »

"Roughly a month and a half after the controversial incident, the Dennis Wideman appeal process is over. And the NHL disagrees with the outcome.

Independent arbitrator James Oldham chopped the NHL's 20-game suspension of the Calgary Flames defenceman in half Friday, making it a 10-game ban. Wideman won't get back the extra nine games he's sat out, but he will be reimbursed $282,258.06 in lost pay."

Source was Sportsnet

So it would seem the NHL got it wrong and their discipline was later decided to be too punitive. The appeal process corrected it after the fact by reimbursing the player in excess of 200 K in lost wages. Some would argue this is the very reason why the player should be able to continue to play until the appeal of one-sided arbitrary league decisions are heard.

Way to miss the point.

The fact Wideman was suspended immediately and the league upheld it after his appeal is the difference you've failed to realize. It's not the length or the lost wages. It's the fact the NHL upheld his suspension for what he did, which was basically the same action as Rose's this past Sunday. And yet, he gets to appeal his suspension and that's that. It's ridiculous and indefensible.

Rose shouldn't be allowed to play this weekend, IMO. Of course he has the right to appeal to the suspension but the league needed to make a point and ensure safety of its officials is respected and acknowledged. In this particular set of circumstances, the league has failed. Rose does not deserve to play in the Grey Cup, nor does he deserve the extra money for it.

In Wideman's case, he still missed 10 games and one could argue that's getting off lightly for the dumb stunt he pulled. Lost wages can always be reimbursed, anyway. I applaud the NHL for actually having the teeth to put its foot down and send a message to its employees that abuse directed at officials will not be tolerated under any circumstances.

And this whole situation makes me wonder: how will the officials in charge of Sunday's game look at Rose? It wouldn't surprise me if he gets put under a microscope during the game.
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buckzumhoff
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« Reply #70 on: November 23, 2018, 05:26:50 AM »

The NHL knows the arbitrator will ask for less so the NHL gave him 20 and the NHL is ok with 10. Why the CFL asks for one game. I wonder if it was any other team, would they receive a one game suspension for running a referee.
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dd
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« Reply #71 on: November 25, 2018, 08:37:54 PM »

I don?t know what he?s appealing?? That he doesn?t deserve a measly game for pushing an official to the ground!?!

ThEre has to be validity to an appeal not just delaying the inevitable because he wants to collect the bonus money that goes with playing in the grey cup game. What a complete and total joke. Awesome job Ambrosie, you?ve lost a ton of respect over this
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In Motion
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« Reply #72 on: November 25, 2018, 08:45:58 PM »

That was a bad hit, but I say let him play in the Grey Cup.
Why?  Because I don't want to penalize the whole team and city
for the stupidity of one player in such a crucial game.
For this reason, I would show mercy for today, and then suspend him
for 3 regular season games.
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In Motion
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« Reply #73 on: November 25, 2018, 08:47:06 PM »

Absolutely.  I know they made the change because there were too many challenges but your point is well taken.  The team should not be punished because of a correctable call.  Retain the challenge every time the ruling favours the challenge.

Definitely!
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kkc60
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« Reply #74 on: November 25, 2018, 10:30:31 PM »

That was a bad hit, but I say let him play in the Grey Cup.
Why?  Because I don't want to penalize the whole team and city
for the stupidity of one player in such a crucial game.
For this reason, I would show mercy for today, and then suspend him
for 3 regular season games.
No offence but that's dumb. Penalize the city? Get a grip. He pushed an official. That's a no no. Should Tank Reed no have gotten called for holding in the GC years ago because taking back the TD would penalize the city?

He did what he did and thats on him. If he costed his team a GC then he gets to live with that.

Suspend him months later for 3 games? Uh no. What if he goes to a new team? Does that team deserve to lose a guy for 3 games because of something he did when he played for someone else? Or what if he was to go to the NFL or AAFL? Then he just gets away with it?

Today is another game. Same as last week just winner takes all. To pretend it's okay to push a ref because the next game is the GC is wrong on all levels. Rose should have thought before he fought
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #75 on: November 25, 2018, 10:34:40 PM »

No offence but that's dumb. Penalize the city? Get a grip. He pushed an official. That's a no no. Should Tank Reed no have gotten called for holding in the GC years ago because taking back the TD would penalize the city?

He did what he did and thats on him. If he costed his team a GC then he gets to live with that.

Suspend him months later for 3 games? Uh no. What if he goes to a new team? Does that team deserve to lose a guy for 3 games because of something he did when he played for someone else? Or what if he was to go to the NFL or AAFL? Then he just gets away with it?

Today is another game. Same as last week just winner takes all. To pretend it's okay to push a ref because the next game is the GC is wrong on all levels. Rose should have thought before he fought
this

I highly disagree with Motion as well.
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TrueBlue75
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« Reply #76 on: November 25, 2018, 10:46:35 PM »

I hate that this fool is allowed to be in this game. If he loses his suspension appeal would he have to give back the playoff money for the game?
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bustamente
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« Reply #77 on: November 25, 2018, 10:49:31 PM »

And of course he makes the first big play of the game.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #78 on: November 26, 2018, 04:48:08 PM »

And of course he makes the first big play of the game.

But it all worked out in the end and he's just a loser now.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2018, 06:31:42 PM »

But it all worked out in the end and he's just a loser now.

But he still got an $8k cheque he should not have...
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Stretch
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« Reply #80 on: November 28, 2018, 03:29:18 PM »

And just for comparison, Leonard Fournette was suspended for one game, appealed, and had the suspension upheld all within about 3 days. https://www.tsn.ca/fournette-s-ban-upheld-will-sit-vs-colts-1.1217301
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #81 on: November 28, 2018, 05:02:02 PM »

And just for comparison, Leonard Fournette was suspended for one game, appealed, and had the suspension upheld all within about 3 days. https://www.tsn.ca/fournette-s-ban-upheld-will-sit-vs-colts-1.1217301

Ridiculous. I guess the CFL has a reputation to maintain, though.
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kkc60
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« Reply #82 on: November 28, 2018, 06:57:38 PM »

Ridiculous. I guess the CFL has a reputation to maintain, though.
CFLs arbitrator also takes way longer than NFLs I suppose. Remember when Duron Carter played for line a month after appealing a suspension
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #83 on: November 28, 2018, 07:01:56 PM »

CFLs arbitrator also takes way longer than NFLs I suppose. Remember when Duron Carter played for line a month after appealing a suspension

Alright, so they make changes to the rule book in the off-season so these circumstances don't happen again, no problem.
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Jesse
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« Reply #84 on: November 28, 2018, 07:35:05 PM »

Alright, so they make changes to the rule book in the off-season so these circumstances don't happen again, no problem.

This is likely a CBA matter and the Player's Union would fight it.

Big problem.
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the paw
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« Reply #85 on: November 28, 2018, 07:50:14 PM »

This is likely a CBA matter and the Player's Union would fight it.

Big problem.

Yes.  Under the CBA appeals of discipline by the Commissioner are dealt with through the Arbitration Process of the CBA.  Since that arbitration process also deals with contract issues, grievances related to practice times, etc. etc. and uses a list of external arbitrators, it is not designed to work within a week.

If the league wanted to address this, they would have to negotiate a change to CBA language and create a separate appeal process for on-field incidents that could be implemented more quickly. 
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Norm W
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« Reply #86 on: November 28, 2018, 08:17:56 PM »

The 1st stumbling block comes with setting up an arbitrator, each side has to agree with the selection of the arbitrator. Depending on what you want that process can drag... Imagine you wanted to play in the Grey Cup that was scheduled a mere 7 days from the time the league fined you and issued you a notice of suspension. Fat chance I'm agreeing with the 1st couple arbitrators suggested... I'll be okay with the one that is available to hear my weak *** excuse in January  Grin 
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« Reply #87 on: November 28, 2018, 08:24:08 PM »

Imagine you wanted to play in the Grey Cup that was scheduled a mere 7 days from the time the league fined you and issued you a notice of suspension. Fat chance I'm agreeing with the 1st couple arbitrators suggested... I'll be okay with the one that is available to hear my weak *** excuse in January  Grin 

Unless you play in the Grey Cup and then decided "You know what? I'm going to withdraw my appeal and just sit out a pre-season game next year."  Smiley
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #88 on: November 28, 2018, 08:25:09 PM »

CFLs arbitrator also takes way longer than NFLs I suppose. Remember when Duron Carter played for line a month after appealing a suspension

All this does is further demonstrate the bush league image of the CFL, IMO. And how seemingly unimportant officials (and officiating) are.

This is likely a CBA matter and the Player's Union would fight it.

Big problem.

A massive problem. But it needs to be addressed.
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kkc60
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« Reply #89 on: November 28, 2018, 09:06:18 PM »

All this does is further demonstrate the bush league image of the CFL, IMO. And how seemingly unimportant officials (and officiating) are.

A massive problem. But it needs to be addressed.
I agree. While officiating in the CFL is quite weak in my opinion, how the league punishes or lack of is weaker. Players essentially appeal a suspension just to play more games before the suspension
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booch
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« Reply #90 on: November 29, 2018, 04:49:11 PM »

as with all leagues pretty much
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kkc60
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« Reply #91 on: November 29, 2018, 04:54:07 PM »

as with all leagues pretty much
NFL pounded through Fournettes appeal. Ditto to most appeals. David Onyemata had his appeal take longer but he was appealing a fine not a suspension. This is a 9 team league. The fact a week couldn't solve an obvious suspension is Bush league
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #92 on: December 02, 2018, 04:45:37 PM »

but here's the rub, in my opinion.... deciding to NOT allow a player to exercise an option that both the league and player representation agree upon and put into a contract somewhere, and without doubt is printed in a book somewhere with the how, when, and where, instructions on when it can be used and other detailed statements of everyone is expected to follow... and then, because you don't like what he did you want to change the rule... not how it works, or should work... not much of a union or league if you make agreements and then choose to only enforce when you want, or change them on the fly if you don't like someone exercising something that agreed upon...

processes are processes, but, for sure you would have thought that there would have been a disclaimer somewhere in this book that says... "if you touch an official in any manner you will be suspended immediately and the appeal process will not be available to you until after your hearing and subsequent finding..."
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #93 on: December 02, 2018, 04:55:16 PM »

Processes are processes and this process needs to change. Luckily, they are negotiating the new agreement this off season.
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