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Author Topic: Charles Nelson  (Read 1545 times)
bigbuff33
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« on: November 04, 2018, 12:47:15 PM »

Very impressed...checked out his numbers...some serious talent...
Gotta find a way to get him in the lineup..perhaps the return threat we've been looking for.
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blueraid
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2018, 02:42:12 PM »

Definitely better than Fogg....find a way O'Shea....We need that improvement on special teams definitely in the playoffs
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Ducky
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2018, 02:47:12 PM »

Watching some Oregon Ducks highlights - he also played DB for the Ducks and threw a couple TD passes.  Just an all around good athlete.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2018, 02:48:09 PM »

He also covered well on teams yesterday.
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2018, 02:52:59 PM »

Agreed he needs to start

No fumblitus here right?
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2018, 03:41:11 PM »

I mentioned it once earlier but is there a chance they could replace Thompkins with Nelson going forward this season. I'm not suggesting releasing Thompkins just sending him to 1 game IR.

I like Thompkins but he isn't getting many opportunities lately. Nelson might add in some extra versatility on returns, sweeps, runs and even trick plays ( passes ).

My only concern would be whether Thompkins is used much in blocking assignments that Nelson might not be able to handle. He's the size of Dressler.

In any case he showed enough to get another chance in TC 2019 IMO.
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kkc60
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2018, 04:08:34 PM »

I mentioned it once earlier but is there a chance they could replace Thompkins with Nelson going forward this season. I'm not suggesting releasing Thompkins just sending him to 1 game IR.

I like Thompkins but he isn't getting many opportunities lately. Nelson might add in some extra versatility on returns, sweeps, runs and even trick plays ( passes ).

My only concern would be whether Thompkins is used much in blocking assignments that Nelson might not be able to handle. He's the size of Dressler.

In any case he showed enough to get another chance in TC 2019 IMO.
It seems Nichols has kinda forgotten about Thompkins which is too bad because he definitely is a starter in this league. Nelson could add a nice wrinkle to our offence too. Perhaps replacing Dressler next year (or Demski)
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Colton
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2018, 04:08:42 PM »

Definitely better than Fogg....find a way O'Shea....We need that improvement on special teams definitely in the playoffs

7 yards on 4 returns is better than Fogg?
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2018, 04:52:35 PM »

7 yards on 4 returns is better than Fogg?
he did better on KOs....got us past the 35 which hasn't happened recently!
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the paw
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2018, 04:56:25 PM »

Nelson is basically the same as Lankford on kick returns, he was TERRIBLE on punt returns, and his receiving numbers were pedestrian.  In fact, because 30 of his 35 yds receiving was YAC, one might conclude that he isn't a bona fide top flight receiver, but one of those "exciting" guys that they throw 1 yard screens to and hope he makes something happen.  (a la the Quincy McDuffie experiment on offence).

I'm not saying we shouldn't bring him back next year, but neither should we be crowning him as the next great thing either.  

If there was anyone who strengthened their case for next year, it was Johnny Augustine.  I didn't really watch him in protection, but LaFrance better watch his back....
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2018, 05:07:55 PM »

Nelson is basically the same as Lankford on kick returns, he was TERRIBLE on punt returns, and his receiving numbers were pedestrian.  In fact, because 30 of his 35 yds receiving was YAC, one might conclude that he isn't a bona fide top flight receiver, but one of those "exciting" guys that they throw 1 yard screens to and hope he makes something happen.  (a la the Quincy McDuffie experiment on offence).

I'm not saying we shouldn't bring him back next year, but neither should we be crowning him as the next great thing either.  

If there was anyone who strengthened their case for next year, it was Johnny Augustine.  I didn't really watch him in protection, but LaFrance better watch his back....

I don't think anyone is crowning him the next great thing just yet. Very small sample but I did like both his quickness and his shifty running style.

At this point it just earns him a ticket to TC 2019. However he does seem to have some natural athleticism that might be interesting.
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2018, 05:17:57 PM »

Nelson is basically the same as Lankford on kick returns, he was TERRIBLE on punt returns, and his receiving numbers were pedestrian.  In fact, because 30 of his 35 yds receiving was YAC, one might conclude that he isn't a bona fide top flight receiver, but one of those "exciting" guys that they throw 1 yard screens to and hope he makes something happen.  (a la the Quincy McDuffie experiment on offence).

I'm not saying we shouldn't bring him back next year, but neither should we be crowning him as the next great thing either.  

If there was anyone who strengthened their case for next year, it was Johnny Augustine.  I didn't really watch him in protection, but LaFrance better watch his back....
Augustine hits the holes quicker and has some power as well....he made an impression on MOS as well so....so yeah I think he has great potential!
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Knocker42
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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2018, 05:22:21 PM »

When he eventually gets the ball into his hands Nelson looks decent on kickoff returns but his punt returns were not at all good.  However, I believe our return team has been adversely affected by injuries to people like Corney and Gauthier, so we probably won't really know about him this season.  He let a couple of kicks bounce when they should have been caught.  That will need to be fixed.

This is, to me, a typical example of what happens when a new player comes in.  We all, and I include myself, get excited when the new guy does something good and ignore the faults.  Just exactly the opposite of how we see the veterans.   Same applies with Streveler and Nichols.
We rightly enjoy Streveler's running but if Nichols failed to see open receivers as Streveler did in the first half, he would be crucified by many.
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Colton
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2018, 05:22:33 PM »

he did better on KOs....got us past the 35 which hasn't happened recently!

Fogg doesn't return kicks
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In Motion
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« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2018, 06:36:00 PM »

I've found our returners all hesitate. I know they're looking for an opening,
but by the time they've taken that second or two to look, the cover team
has converged on them. Just go! I also blame our blocking on returns.
It's pretty much non-existent in my opinion.
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kkc60
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« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2018, 06:56:38 PM »

I've found our returners all hesitate. I know they're looking for an opening,
but by the time they've taken that second or two to look, the cover team
has converged on them. Just go! I also blame our blocking on returns.
It's pretty much non-existent in my opinion.
Yeah no our blocks are non-existent. I think losing Renaud, Corney and Gauthier and plugging in guys like Rush and Morgan has hurt a bit
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DM83
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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2018, 07:08:57 PM »

You guys are rediculous.  This Nelson kid got positive yards and  knows how to run,...he should be a starter. He can actually play!  Come on boys!
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blue newt
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2018, 07:48:51 PM »

This is, to me, a typical example of what happens when a new player comes in.  We all, and I include myself, get excited when the new guy does something good and ignore the faults.  Just exactly the opposite of how we see the veterans.   Same applies with Streveler and Nichols.
We rightly enjoy Streveler's running but if Nichols failed to see open receivers as Streveler did in the first half, he would be crucified by many.

Agree -- Nichols reads the field well, but isn't as mobile (though he's been trying lately!); Streveler is very mobile and adds a new dimension there, but needs improvement at reading the field and coverage.  Hopefully, though, Nichols can help Streveler improve in that area.

Just go! I also blame our blocking on returns.
It's pretty much non-existent in my opinion.

Agree here, too.  It seems odd that *nobody* we put in to return kicks/punts gets very far (and we've tried a lot of people: Fogg, Demski, Lafrance, Flanders, Lankford, Nelson, possibly more I'm forgetting...).  I've long suspected the problem may be more in the blocks than in the returner. 
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blueraid
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2018, 07:58:46 PM »

Fogg doesn't return kicks


No that's right....he just pretends to return kicks...just catches them and flops...Let's face it Fogg hasn't looked good on the returns this year...He flashes every once in awhile but not at all like the year he was taking them back for six BUT had them called back on many occasion....Maybe he just gave up...His cover ability on D isn't that great either and he better pick up his game or he'll be on the outside looking in next year


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Colton
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2018, 10:16:18 PM »


No that's right....he just pretends to return kicks...just catches them and flops...Let's face it Fogg hasn't looked good on the returns this year...He flashes every once in awhile but not at all like the year he was taking them back for six BUT had them called back on many occasion....Maybe he just gave up...His cover ability on D isn't that great either and he better pick up his game or he'll be on the outside looking in next year




Fogg has only returned one kick this entire season. Do none of you actually watch this team?
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2018, 11:35:04 PM »

I mentioned it once earlier but is there a chance they could replace Thompkins with Nelson going forward this season. I'm not suggesting releasing Thompkins just sending him to 1 game IR.

I like Thompkins but he isn't getting many opportunities lately. Nelson might add in some extra versatility on returns, sweeps, runs and even trick plays ( passes ).

My only concern would be whether Thompkins is used much in blocking assignments that Nelson might not be able to handle. He's the size of Dressler.

In any case he showed enough to get another chance in TC 2019 IMO.

Was Thompkins even on the field yesterday?  If so I didn't notice him.  If Nelson pans out as a very good returner in next year's T.C. I'd be happy if they kept him as a backup receiver over Washington, who seems to be one of those tall lanky receivers that doesn't offer a lot of upside, speed or muscle beyond what we've already seen from him, which isn't enough imo.  Very much like the previous Washington, and I can say that with impunity now that the wrath of Chevelle has vanished.  Grin
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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2018, 11:42:15 PM »

He looked good in a game that meant nothing.

He showed promise and looked good.  Likely not ready.
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kkc60
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« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2018, 02:41:51 AM »

He looked good in a game that meant nothing.

He showed promise and looked good.  Likely not ready.
It meant nothing to the standings or the fans but trust me it meant a lot for everyone on the field. The importance of the game shouldn't be factored into how he performed
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2018, 08:04:37 PM »

When he eventually gets the ball into his hands Nelson looks decent on kickoff returns but his punt returns were not at all good.  However, I believe our return team has been adversely affected by injuries to people like Corney and Gauthier, so we probably won't really know about him this season.  He let a couple of kicks bounce when they should have been caught.  That will need to be fixed.

This is, to me, a typical example of what happens when a new player comes in.  We all, and I include myself, get excited when the new guy does something good and ignore the faults.  Just exactly the opposite of how we see the veterans.   Same applies with Streveler and Nichols.

You pegged that perfectly.  We ignore new guy faults because we're all thinking "oh, he'll learn / improve".  Sometimes they don't!

I've found our returners all hesitate. I know they're looking for an opening,
but by the time they've taken that second or two to look, the cover team
has converged on them. Just go! I also blame our blocking on returns.
It's pretty much non-existent in my opinion.


If the refs aren't going to call holding and IB on sneaky, underhanded holds and IB like SSK does on every ST play, then we should be holding and IBing too.  I think SSK spends a huge amount of practice and study time on perfecting the hidden/nebulous holds/IBs on STs to make up for their lack of O.  It's a smart move, actually: ST plays are so chaotic by nature the refs can't see even half of what's going on.

Just wait and watch how slimy SSK ST blocking will be in the WSF.
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Point of attack
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« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2018, 08:41:20 PM »

Seriously this guy looks like a keeper.
Too small sample size but makes it hard not to see if he's
a legit playmaker. I want to see more of this little guy and all over the field.
Hell he could be the next star DB but I'd really like to line him up in the slot for
a look see first.
He runs tough too for a smaller player and at a minimum should
Find a home on teams somewhere.
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blue girl
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« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2018, 08:43:20 PM »

Was Thompkins even on the field yesterday?  If so I didn't notice him.  If Nelson pans out as a very good returner in next year's T.C. I'd be happy if they kept him as a backup receiver over Washington, who seems to be one of those tall lanky receivers that doesn't offer a lot of upside, speed or muscle beyond what we've already seen from him, which isn't enough imo.  Very much like the previous Washington, and I can say that with impunity now that the wrath of Chevelle has vanished.  Grin
I re-watched the game last night and the only time that I saw Thompkins was on the sidelines wearing one of those hats with the ear flaps. So I don't believe he even played.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2018, 08:46:59 PM »

Nelson was good on Saturday. Looked like a far better kick returner than Demski/LaFrance/Flanders. Punt returns weren't great but there's normally more of a learning curve for imports there and he might just be a more natural kick returner.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2018, 10:25:26 PM »

He also had three tackles on the teams. Nice to have him and Lankford out there on teams for there speed.
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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2018, 11:03:21 PM »

He also had three tackles on the teams. Nice to have him and Lankford out there on teams for there speed.

noticed him on teams too, he needs to do many things well to make the club next year
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2018, 02:16:10 PM »

Fogg has only returned one kick this entire season. Do none of you actually watch this team?

The Fogg hate is priceless, eh? Only because it's so woefully ignorant. He doesn't return kick-offs and is pretty much strictly a punt returner. And as far as punt returns go, he finished second in the league.

Another fun fact: he led the league in missed FG returns.

As far as Nelson goes, I thought he had a solid game on Saturday. Potential is there.
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Tehedra
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« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2018, 06:51:22 PM »

The Fogg hate is priceless, eh? Only because it's so woefully ignorant. He doesn't return kick-offs and is pretty much strictly a punt returner. And as far as punt returns go, he finished second in the league.

Another fun fact: he led the league in missed FG returns.

As far as Nelson goes, I thought he had a solid game on Saturday. Potential is there.

I think people are still really hard on Fogg from a couple years past, but his play has dramatically improved in the defense, he does a lot of what the team asks him for and is often mentioned in good light by Tait, TSN, and the other media.  I know you can't always believe what the Media states, and I mean yes he gets beat like a rented mule sometimes, I just think he is also often put up against some of the better receivers because of his play and him being able to make them work for it.  This isn't saying I think he is the defacto premier DB but I think we are much harder on him then we need to be. 
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theaardvark
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« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2018, 06:53:41 PM »

I think people are still really hard on Fogg from a couple years past, but his play has dramatically improved in the defense, he does a lot of what the team asks him for and is often mentioned in good light by Tait, TSN, and the other media.  I know you can't always believe what the Media states, and I mean yes he gets beat like a rented mule sometimes, I just think he is also often put up against some of the better receivers because of his play and him being able to make them work for it.  This isn't saying I think he is the defacto premier DB but I think we are much harder on him then we need to be. 

Still wondering on the rented mule concept... he slipped once, saw that.  Otherwise, he is right there on most 50/50 balls, just gets unlucky in where his hand sweeps go, and he misses the ball. 
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kkc60
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« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2018, 06:58:59 PM »

I think people are still really hard on Fogg from a couple years past, but his play has dramatically improved in the defense, he does a lot of what the team asks him for and is often mentioned in good light by Tait, TSN, and the other media.  I know you can't always believe what the Media states, and I mean yes he gets beat like a rented mule sometimes, I just think he is also often put up against some of the better receivers because of his play and him being able to make them work for it.  This isn't saying I think he is the defacto premier DB but I think we are much harder on him then we need to be. 
He leads the teams DBs in completion Oct against at 67%. Randle and Alexander are at 57%. He is also tied with a rookie for TDs against at 4. He has missed 2 games yet has a916 receiving yards against. Next closest? Randle at 769 with one more game played. Foggs a great guy so of course the media will love him. He also makes splash plays, so it's super easy to say good things about him. But the stats don't lie.

I think maybe some are too hard on him as a returner but he's a 3rd year DB that was outplayed by a rookie and is consistently picked on. Plain and simple, he is our weakest link
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2018, 07:03:36 PM »

I'll be the first to say I don't like Fogg at corner. He looks out of place more often than not but I'll pin the blame on the coaching staff for putting and keeping him there. The numbers certainly don't lie and he seems far better suited to the HB position, IMO.

On ST, however, he's a stud.
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Norm W
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« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2018, 07:24:21 PM »

I'll be surprised stunned flabbergasted if Nelson is on the AR come game time...
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the paw
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« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2018, 07:37:34 PM »

I'll be the first to say I don't like Fogg at corner. He looks out of place more often than not but I'll pin the blame on the coaching staff for putting and keeping him there. The numbers certainly don't lie and he seems far better suited to the HB position, IMO.

On ST, however, he's a stud.

I think the exact opposite.  I think he struggled more at HB and performed better at field corner.  For the most part, he is in position, but as Aards points out, he sometimes whiffs on the knockdown.  On the other hand, he does pretty well for picks. 

he is a great punt returner, although his average has dropped since he became full time on defence.  If we had the same personnel next year, I would not mind seeing Fenner out on the corner, with Fogg as the extra DB and returner. 
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theaardvark
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« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2018, 07:48:37 PM »


Bob Irving @BobIrvingCJOB

Mike Oshea tells his radio show on 680CJOB that Taylor Loffler and Sukh Chung will return from injury for the semi final but he doesn?t see how he can get returner Charles Nelson on the roster because it would cost them a key American player somewhere else.

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Blue In BC
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« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2018, 07:50:33 PM »

He leads the teams DBs in completion Oct against at 67%. Randle and Alexander are at 57%. He is also tied with a rookie for TDs against at 4. He has missed 2 games yet has a916 receiving yards against. Next closest? Randle at 769 with one more game played. Foggs a great guy so of course the media will love him. He also makes splash plays, so it's super easy to say good things about him. But the stats don't lie.

I think maybe some are too hard on him as a returner but he's a 3rd year DB that was outplayed by a rookie and is consistently picked on. Plain and simple, he is our weakest link

Randle and the inside HB's are playing against the opponents top receivers. Fogg got beat by JFG as an example.

In theory the receivers Fogg is covering should see the least amount of activity.

Aside from the percentage stat is there a breakdown of " targeted " for each DB?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 07:54:01 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2018, 08:02:21 PM »

I think the exact opposite.  I think he struggled more at HB and performed better at field corner.

Maybe his mistakes were less glaring at HB. I just don't recall seeing him get beat as badly or as often when he played inside.
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kkc60
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« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2018, 08:03:21 PM »


Bob Irving @BobIrvingCJOB

Mike Oshea tells his radio show on 680CJOB that Taylor Loffler and Sukh Chung will return from injury for the semi final but he doesn?t see how he can get returner Charles Nelson on the roster because it would cost them a key American player somewhere else.


Simple: bench old and slow Ian Wild
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Jesse
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« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2018, 08:04:47 PM »

He leads the teams DBs in completion Oct against at 67%. Randle and Alexander are at 57%. He is also tied with a rookie for TDs against at 4. He has missed 2 games yet has a916 receiving yards against. Next closest? Randle at 769 with one more game played. Foggs a great guy so of course the media will love him. He also makes splash plays, so it's super easy to say good things about him. But the stats don't lie.

I think maybe some are too hard on him as a returner but he's a 3rd year DB that was outplayed by a rookie and is consistently picked on. Plain and simple, he is our weakest link

Randle and the inside HB's are playing against the opponents top receivers. Fogg got beat by JFG as an example.

In theory the receivers Fogg is covering should see the least amount of activity.

Aside from the percentage stat is there a breakdown of " targeted " for each DB?

The numbers he is quoting are put together by a fan on Twitter and are very unofficial. These are the numbers, as best as he can tell on TV. The percentages especially should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Jesse
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« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2018, 08:05:01 PM »

Simple: bench old and slow Ian Wild

That was my first thought as well....
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2018, 08:05:54 PM »

Wild is the backup LS. That's probably why he continues to see active duty more than anything else.
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kkc60
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« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2018, 09:03:09 PM »

The numbers he is quoting are put together by a fan on Twitter and are very unofficial. These are the numbers, as best as he can tell on TV. The percentages especially should be taken with a grain of salt.
That's fair but I'll trust the numbers and frankly they don't look off at all. Fogg has been beat up all season whether you use the good ol eye ball test or some random guy in Twitters numbers
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kkc60
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« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2018, 09:04:02 PM »

Wild is the backup LS. That's probably why he continues to see active duty more than anything else.
I am sure we have other guys who can long snap
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booch
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« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2018, 09:14:26 PM »

most teams have several...
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kkc60
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« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2018, 09:18:55 PM »

most teams have several...
Exactly. I'm confident we have other guys who could fill in. The fact MOS would rather have a 2nd string long snapper over a competent returner is surprising
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the paw
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« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2018, 10:33:10 PM »

The numbers he is quoting are put together by a fan on Twitter and are very unofficial. These are the numbers, as best as he can tell on TV. The percentages especially should be taken with a grain of salt.

Well, in that case, I think the assumption is that he percentages are total junk.  On TV, you can really only see which DB was closest to the guy when he caught it, not who blew coverage or assignment.  There have been a couple of times where they have had an iso shot that Suitor has broken down and illustrated where a guy who is not even in the screen vacated his zone, and some poor bugger in the next zone looks like the fall guy just because he appears on camera in chase. 

There is no way a fan can reliably discern coverage assignments from the TV shots we have access to. 
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Jesse
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« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2018, 03:05:55 AM »

Well, in that case, I think the assumption is that he percentages are total junk.  On TV, you can really only see which DB was closest to the guy when he caught it, not who blew coverage or assignment.  There have been a couple of times where they have had an iso shot that Suitor has broken down and illustrated where a guy who is not even in the screen vacated his zone, and some poor bugger in the next zone looks like the fall guy just because he appears on camera in chase. 

There is no way a fan can reliably discern coverage assignments from the TV shots we have access to. 

Exactly. Good for the guy who does it. But it doesn't really tell us what happened.
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My wife is amazing!
bigbuff33
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Posts: 717


« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2018, 03:29:41 PM »

Gotta find a way to get Nelson in the lineup...
He's a return threat that we don't have...
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