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Author Topic: Manzeil out on his feet, no missed plays.  (Read 2641 times)
dd
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« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2018, 09:25:49 PM »

He's definitely seeing the cold, dark side of the business--nobody really cares about you, it's all about ticket sales and trying to win. Your physical and mental well being will never enter the picture/be a consideration to our decisions around here. Yikes!!
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jets4life
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« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2018, 09:54:28 PM »

I didn?t see it so can?t comment either way, but I?m wondering how he looked on the next series?

I personally thought Manziel played well right up until that play.  After that hit, he was not nearly as impressive for the remainder of the game.  Shame on Montreal for rushing him back into the game.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2018, 03:43:33 AM »

You guys nailed it.

Johnny Foosball was 100% out cold for many many seconds.  More seconds than these short KO's usually last for (a la Messam, Cornish, etc).

However, I'd bet my house that he was screaming to go back in and that he was fine, etc.  Almost no player will ask to be taken out.  They are forced out, or they play.  It's like a F1 driver asking if they can slow the car down.  It's not in their blood.  So you can't just blame the Als like they were forcing a guy who was woozy and saying he was iffy to play ball (though the neck-rubbing to try to fake that it wasn't a KO was rather obvious and silly).

I think the concussion-eye-in-the-sky (CEITS) guy has to see visible symptoms after the immediate hit and jump-up to make the call to pull the player.  It's a call that should not be taken lightly.  What was that one a couple of years back... was it Reilly who they pulled and he was livid sitting out several plays as their team was heavily weakened?  In fact, that's the last time I remember the CEITS guy pulling a player.  They probably got reamed a new one by Reilly, Maas, and the Esks.  I bet the CFL revised their policy after that fiasco.

Was J.Foosball showing symptoms 1 minute after the hit?  I didn't see any.  He definitely showed the symptoms when he was down and when he first jumped up, but that was the end of the symptoms.  I'm sure if the CEITS noticed him unsteady or glassy eyed or confused they would have forced him out.

I'm 100% ok with how it played out.  I'm actually 100% ok with personal responsibility and if a player wants to stay in, I say let him.  I'm also ok with the CEITS-pulling compromise system the CFL has in place.  But I wouldn't want to see it any stricter.

Imagine it's the GC, 4Q, 1st down, and Nichols takes a big hit but gets up and is no worse than J.Foosball or Reilly were afterwards.  Are you guys telling me you want CEITS to force-pull our #1 QB for several plays?  Then we lose the game.  How are you all feeling then, including Nichols?
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jets4life
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« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2018, 05:35:18 AM »

You guys nailed it.

Johnny Foosball was 100% out cold for many many seconds.  More seconds than these short KO's usually last for (a la Messam, Cornish, etc).

However, I'd bet my house that he was screaming to go back in and that he was fine, etc.  Almost no player will ask to be taken out.  They are forced out, or they play.  It's like a F1 driver asking if they can slow the car down.  It's not in their blood.  So you can't just blame the Als like they were forcing a guy who was woozy and saying he was iffy to play ball (though the neck-rubbing to try to fake that it wasn't a KO was rather obvious and silly).

One can definitely blame the Alouettes, since it is part of the job of the club to maintain the health and safety of it's players.

Quote
I think the concussion-eye-in-the-sky (CEITS) guy has to see visible symptoms after the immediate hit and jump-up to make the call to pull the player.  It's a call that should not be taken lightly.  What was that one a couple of years back... was it Reilly who they pulled and he was livid sitting out several plays as their team was heavily weakened?  In fact, that's the last time I remember the CEITS guy pulling a player.  They probably got reamed a new one by Reilly, Maas, and the Esks.  I bet the CFL revised their policy after that fiasco.

Was J.Foosball showing symptoms 1 minute after the hit?  I didn't see any.  He definitely showed the symptoms when he was down and when he first jumped up, but that was the end of the symptoms.  I'm sure if the CEITS noticed him unsteady or glassy eyed or confused they would have forced him out.

I'm 100% ok with how it played out.  I'm actually 100% ok with personal responsibility and if a player wants to stay in, I say let him.  I'm also ok with the CEITS-pulling compromise system the CFL has in place.  But I wouldn't want to see it any stricter.

Imagine it's the GC, 4Q, 1st down, and Nichols takes a big hit but gets up and is no worse than J.Foosball or Reilly were afterwards.  Are you guys telling me you want CEITS to force-pull our #1 QB for several plays?  Then we lose the game.  How are you all feeling then, including Nichols?


This type of mentality by the league will inevitably result in class-action lawsuits down the road.  The NFL just paid out hundreds of millions to players that now have CTE, or have passed away from CTE related illness. 
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2018, 05:50:48 AM »

Only saw it on the highlights, but he sure looked like he was out.  Reminded me of when Bishop ran into the back of his blocker and knocked himself out.

He should have been taken out immediately.  I sure hope they (either the EITS or the Als) didn't "overlook" it simply because they need him to sell tickets/generate interest in Montreal.
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Old Rusty
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Just make it to the playoffs!


« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2018, 11:12:21 AM »

He was hit very hard, and was out.   Dumb to play him after that.
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kronic
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« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2018, 12:20:22 PM »

I?m certainly no expert on the matter, but I took a quick peek and the K-D test they use to evaluate concussions apparently take less than two minutes to administer on the sidelines. So it?s not beyond the realm of possibility that he passed the test before they sent him back in. It also doesn?t mean he won?t experience concussion symptoms later on. So I?m really not sure how useful the test they?re using is lol.


That said, I finally saw the hit and yeah he did look out to me too. But they?ve probably gotten pretty efficient at administering the concussion tests. While it might appear different, I have a hard time believing in this day and age, a team or league is going to risk a players health and potential lawsuit to sell a few tickets.
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Buck Nasty
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« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2018, 12:23:34 PM »

The other bad part was even during the replays, TSN just brushed it off.  No mention of him being knocked out or possible concussion at all. 

In that moment I was embarrassed to be a fan of the CFL.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2018, 12:38:59 PM »

It looked bad but I would hesitate to diagnose him from your couch. Not all big hits cause concussions and it's impossible to tell if he was unconscious. I agree it looked like he was, and therefore the temptation would be to assume he suffered a concussion but he bounced up pretty quickly and was smiling on the sidelines not long after. Concussions are tricky injuries to diagnose but it's sort of hard to hold him out just because it looks bad on TSN. Hope he's okay!
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gbill2004
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« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2018, 12:50:48 PM »

It looked bad but I would hesitate to diagnose him from your couch. Not all big hits cause concussions and it's impossible to tell if he was unconscious. I agree it looked like he was, and therefore the temptation would be to assume he suffered a concussion but he bounced up pretty quickly and was smiling on the sidelines not long after. Concussions are tricky injuries to diagnose but it's sort of hard to hold him out just because it looks bad on TSN. Hope he's okay!
You are right we should not be making a diagnosis from our couch at home, but at the very least, I think Manziel should have gone through concussion protocol, and it appeared that he did not. 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 03:24:47 PM by gbill2004 » Logged
66 Chevelle
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« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2018, 01:24:21 PM »

you would hope that they would err on the side of safety though... the hit looked bad... take your time and make sure he's ok before allowing him to enter play again...
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DarkDays
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« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2018, 02:26:42 PM »

Definitely bush league handling.  Caught myself gasping in real time.

JM went down limp as a dishrag.  He should have immediately gone into protocol.

I thought Ambrosie was supposed to be tough on CTE....

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theaardvark
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« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2018, 05:30:25 PM »

You could see him struggling, getting up, and then getting off the field for the point after team.  And then he was on the bench with a human shield around him, TSN actually went behind the bench to get an angle on him, and they were frantically working his neck... and no mention of concussion protocol...   

I get that they want Manzeil out there, and that MTL had no one with any ability to back up on the bench... but still, this was jeopardizing a man's career, or even life. 

Shame on the spotters and the league.
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drahgon
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« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2018, 05:38:02 PM »

I didn't see this game live but did see the replay of him getting "trucked" at the goal line. To me he clearly looks knocked out. (No effort to protect himself or the ball after getting hit, and is rag-dolled under the pileup.

Optics for the league are not good the way this was handled.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2018, 06:03:54 PM »

Ok, lets see if there is an answer...



Jeff Bluebomber Fan@aardvarkpets

@RandyAmbrosie @CFLonTSN @CFLPA Does the CFL have any statement on play 104 of the OTT/MTL game? The one where Manziel was hit, fumbled the ball and seemed to be knocked out, and then struggled to get to the sidelines? Did spotters see this and allow him to continue? No protocol?

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