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Author Topic: Riders versus the Cats  (Read 3010 times)
elder
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« on: July 20, 2018, 12:33:11 AM »

It looks like the Riders have turned this one around and they may even win this game.  Notwithstanding all of the abuse they've taken on this forum, they appear to have a decent team. 
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gbill2004
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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2018, 12:45:37 AM »

Still lots of football to play.

Anyone else see the halftime act?  They were pretty good and very easy on the eyes!
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Knocker42
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2018, 12:46:57 AM »

It looks like the Riders have turned this one around and they may even win this game.  Notwithstanding all of the abuse they've taken on this forum, they appear to have a decent team. 

Chris Jones has been treating the early games like exhibition contests.  He seems to believe that he can experiment early in the season, find out what works best and then make a late run for the playoffs.  I'd love to see him fall on his face but it looks like he has got it right and it is not even deep into the season.
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lenny
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2018, 12:47:03 AM »

Well two ST TDs. Their d is definitely to contend with.Masoli held to 85 yds passing in the 1st half.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2018, 12:47:35 AM »

Johnny time?
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lenny
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2018, 12:50:42 AM »

Johnny time?

Fans getting restless with Masoli.A few Bronx cheers.But Jones seems to have his number.Still lots of time.
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lenny
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2018, 12:56:17 AM »

Wow Sask running game is killing the Cats.
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blue_gold_84
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Fort Hew


« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2018, 12:59:33 AM »

Jee-zus, how the Bombers lose so badly to the Ti-Cats? :/
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Horseman
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2018, 01:07:52 AM »

Sask defence is playing like a defence should. Hall could take some pointers as I don't see their DB's giving big cushions to the receivers.
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Horseman
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2018, 01:08:39 AM »

With Sask winning this game, it sure makes us look bad.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2018, 01:10:50 AM »

Jee-zus, how the Bombers lose so badly to the Ti-Cats? :/
Richie Hall.
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trapper
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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2018, 01:11:25 AM »

With Sask winning this game, it sure makes us look bad.

Riders lost to the Al's....at home.... Nothing could look worse... regardless if they hang on to win...
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lenny
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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2018, 01:12:14 AM »

Masoli fumbles.Turnover.
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Horseman
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« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2018, 01:12:58 AM »

Bombers 2-3
Sask 3-2
go figure!
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thunderNlightning
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« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2018, 01:14:06 AM »

Geez, we could be in last place by the end of this weekend.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2018, 01:18:17 AM »

Riders defense wins them games.
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Horseman
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« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2018, 01:20:08 AM »

We are in last place.
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dd
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« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2018, 01:20:39 AM »

Masoli fumbles.Turnover.
Yeah, go figure. Against us he could do no wrong, against the riders he can't do anything and then fumbles the ball untouched!!! Brutal, just brutal
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lenny
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« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2018, 01:21:15 AM »

Masoli picked off.
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The Zipp
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« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2018, 01:24:38 AM »

The spectre of Johnny football has contributed to the decline of masoli...and he may not have been as good as some thought.  June Jones made some dumb play calls too
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lenny
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« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2018, 01:26:10 AM »

Jones another masterful d shutting down Masoli for the most part.
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kkc60
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« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2018, 01:39:43 AM »

Hey we might have 2 top 3 picks in the draft
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Pigskin
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« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2018, 01:44:24 AM »

Cats full control in the 1st. half. Jones says Masoli is his starter.
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Horseman
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« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2018, 01:46:04 AM »

Hey we might have 2 top 3 picks in the draft

I guess that is looking on the bright side. LOL
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buckzumhoff
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« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2018, 01:46:56 AM »

Hamilton didn?t play well. Second half really couldn?t do anything. Bad outcome for the Bombers. Thought Hamilton could take this one.
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2018, 01:53:33 AM »

So we win we are still 5th in the west?

TiCats are not that good at all.

I to cannot believe we lost to these gimps wearing helmet. What does that make our group? Pecker heads?
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2018, 01:56:03 AM »

Hamilton didn?t play well. Second half really couldn?t do anything. Bad outcome for the Bombers. Thought Hamilton could take this one.

We are in trouble early season. These dudes NEED to rattle off 3-4 wins I?m row just to get back in the playoff hunt. Now we aren?t in the race.

Yet
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 01:58:56 AM by GOLDMEMBER » Logged

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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2018, 02:14:41 AM »

Jee-zus, how the Bombers lose so badly to the Ti-Cats? :/

Because we had no film on JJ's new 7-man max protect.  All CJ needed to do was watch the film from the WPG@HAM game and find a solution to the 7 OL.  And that solution is obviously: 1) rush 7 or 8, 2) spread your DL extremely wide to attack the ends.

Hall couldn't figure it out over the 60-min game, but it's actually not that simple because you have to practice rushing 7 or 8 as it's not something you normally do.  It's not like Hall could have called from the sidelines "rush 8".  Our D would have been: "huh, what you talkin' about Richie???"

JJ & Masoli seem to be great when they're great, and start folding when they get behind.  And JJ made some dumb decisions, far dumber than anything MOS has done this year.

What SSK was good at the last 2 weeks was film study and game planning.  Their players are still sub-par.

And did you see CJ going mental after that one play?!  My Lord it must suck playing for that guy or coaching under him.  Him and Maas (and Austin).
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New_Earth_Mud
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« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2018, 03:47:03 AM »

Because we had no film on JJ's new 7-man max protect.  All CJ needed to do was watch the film from the WPG@HAM game and find a solution to the 7 OL.  And that solution is obviously: 1) rush 7 or 8, 2) spread your DL extremely wide to attack the ends.

Hall couldn't figure it out over the , 60-min gamebut it's actually not that simple because you have to practice rushing 7 or 8 as it's not something you normally do.  It's not like Hall could have called from the sidelines "rush 8".  Our D would have been: "huh, what you talkin' about Richie???"

JJ & Masoli seem to be great when they're great, and start folding when they get behind.  And JJ made some dumb decisions, far dumber than anything MOS has done this year.

What SSK was good at the last 2 weeks was film study and game planning.  Their players are still sub-par.

And did you see CJ going mental after that one play?!  My Lord it must suck playing for that guy or coaching under him.  Him and Maas (and Austin).




If thats our DCs excuse its lame.
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kkc60
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« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2018, 03:52:28 AM »



If thats our DCs excuse its lame.
It really is. Did the TiCats not play before they played us?
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DM83
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« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2018, 04:34:21 AM »

Great job by Jones on executing a couple plays.
His QBs are awful.  But at least Bridges has gained some valuable experience.

Hammy caught off guard a little bit.   A couple plays killed them.

Thank God Montreal is in the league.

So, teams (BC last week,,Sask this week) are starting to correct mistakes and execute. Mid part of season so I guess that is about time.

Bombers scare the hell out of me.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2018, 07:48:12 AM »

It really is. Did the TiCats not play before they played us?

Yes, Hall should have found a way, any way, but maybe he's never played against a all-7-front-all-the-time O before in his whole life!  Heck, how many of us have seen that before?  I don't remember it anywhere.  That's why we were all shocked in the gameday thread when it was occurring.

To address your point, I don't recall TiCats doing the all-7 in their 2(?) earlier games.  I didn't notice anything special about their D at all.  I sure wish I had kept those games PVRd for a few more weeks.  True, we analyze the games vs us (especially when we get whipped) a lot more than we do games that don't involve us.  However, one would think that the weird HAM D would have stood out, at least to someone on this forum!!

Perhaps HAM used it sparingly vs other teams before they played us, but realized early in the vs WPG game that Hall had no answer for it at all, and thus turned the whole game into that scheme.  It sure as heck is obvious CJ planned for it and neutralized it, and he didn't do that in-game, he did that pre-game with film study and game planning.

No, none of this excuses Hall for not being able to adjust against a new look.  However, if it's so crazy a look that he literally had no idea, then I can somewhat understand.  What if a team came to IGF next time and had a 9 man OL on their first play?  Would any coach in the CFL have any idea what to make of that?  And what if it proved brilliant?  That's kind of what we were dealing with.  How do you deal with something you've never thought of or practised against?

You all realize that Hall will be ready for that 7OL look in our next HAM game, right?  If JJ was really sneaky, he'd abandon that look completely and switch to something else just to catch us off guard and wasting our time chasing shadows.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2018, 11:58:23 AM »

Oh god relax, BC was 1-7 at labor day in 2011 and won the cup. Bombers were 1-4 two years ago and everyone was writing them off back then. It's still early.
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blue_gold_84
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Fort Hew


« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2018, 12:13:47 PM »

Oh god relax, BC was 1-7 at labor day in 2011 and won the cup. Bombers were 1-4 two years ago and everyone was writing them off back then. It's still early.

Nevertheless, it's still troubling. The Bombers should be better than 2-3 right now.
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#forthew

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Pigskin
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« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2018, 12:28:33 PM »

Yes we should, but we are not. The CFL is won and lost after labor day. Make the playoffs and anything is possible. I think we should be 4-1, but the bomber need to learn how to finish game. Last year we couldn't score early in game lately it's the second half.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2018, 12:35:04 PM »

Talk about outcoaching himself.  June Jones laid a huge egg out there...  kicking out of his endzone..  the "quick kick" fiasco....  Hamilton melted down. 

Kudos to SSK for actually taking advantage of it.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2018, 01:08:35 PM »

The Riders won back to back (with a week off in the middle) against the Ticats who beat us badly.

Are the Riders better than we thought they were? Are we worse than we thought we were? Are the Ticats as good as we made them out to be?

The Riders win puts some extra pressure on us to win tomorrow so we don't fall too far behind. If the Lions win tonight, the pressure will be even higher.
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BBRT
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If winning isn't everything,why do they keep score


« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2018, 01:15:15 PM »

The Riders won back to back (with a week off in the middle) against the Ticats who beat us badly.

Are the Riders better than we thought they were? Are we worse than we thought we were? Are the Ticats as good as we made them out to be?

The Riders win puts some extra pressure on us to win tomorrow so we don't fall too far behind. If the Lions win tonight, the pressure will be even higher.

Let me see if I can answer your questions

Are the Riders better than we thought they were - YES

Are we worse than we thought we were - OH HECK YES

Are the TiCats as good as we made them out to be - YES - only when playing against a Richie Hall Defense
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2018, 01:19:40 PM »

Let me see if I can answer your questions

Are the Riders better than we thought they were - YES

Are we worse than we thought we were - OH HECK YES

Are the TiCats as good as we made them out to be - YES - only when playing against a Richie Hall Defense
The Ticats did pretty well against Edmonton too. Maybe Edmonton isn't as good as we thought they were.
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2018, 01:30:13 PM »

The Ticats did pretty well against Edmonton too. Maybe Edmonton isn't as good as we thought they were.

All teams even Calgary are flawed. It?s a weird year so far.
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lenny
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« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2018, 01:56:40 PM »

Oh god relax, BC was 1-7 at labor day in 2011 and won the cup. Bombers were 1-4 two years ago and everyone was writing them off back then. It's still early.

Sorry those aren't very good examples. Big difference between Lulay the MOP of the year in 2011 and MVP of the Grey Cup and Matt Nichols who is yet to win a playoff game.
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kkc60
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« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2018, 02:13:29 PM »

Yes, Hall should have found a way, any way, but maybe he's never played against a all-7-front-all-the-time O before in his whole life!  Heck, how many of us have seen that before?  I don't remember it anywhere.  That's why we were all shocked in the gameday thread when it was occurring.

To address your point, I don't recall TiCats doing the all-7 in their 2(?) earlier games.  I didn't notice anything special about their D at all.  I sure wish I had kept those games PVRd for a few more weeks.  True, we analyze the games vs us (especially when we get whipped) a lot more than we do games that don't involve us.  However, one would think that the weird HAM D would have stood out, at least to someone on this forum!!

Perhaps HAM used it sparingly vs other teams before they played us, but realized early in the vs WPG game that Hall had no answer for it at all, and thus turned the whole game into that scheme.  It sure as heck is obvious CJ planned for it and neutralized it, and he didn't do that in-game, he did that pre-game with film study and game planning.

No, none of this excuses Hall for not being able to adjust against a new look.  However, if it's so crazy a look that he literally had no idea, then I can somewhat understand.  What if a team came to IGF next time and had a 9 man OL on their first play?  Would any coach in the CFL have any idea what to make of that?  And what if it proved brilliant?  That's kind of what we were dealing with.  How do you deal with something you've never thought of or practised against?

You all realize that Hall will be ready for that 7OL look in our next HAM game, right?  If JJ was really sneaky, he'd abandon that look completely and switch to something else just to catch us off guard and wasting our time chasing shadows.

That's a lot of maybes and perhapses. They ran the 7 OL against Calgary and Edmonton. Calgary had 0 film on it and they won. You say you arent making excuses, but you proceed to make excuses and put them in the form of a question in order to only suggest them. Hall didnt adjust. This wasnt their first time using it and yeah they used it more against us because we were incapable of countering it. That's on Hall.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2018, 02:16:29 PM »

Yes, Hall should have found a way, any way, but maybe he's never played against a all-7-front-all-the-time O before in his whole life!  Heck, how many of us have seen that before?  I don't remember it anywhere.  That's why we were all shocked in the gameday thread when it was occurring.

To address your point, I don't recall TiCats doing the all-7 in their 2(?) earlier games.  I didn't notice anything special about their D at all.  I sure wish I had kept those games PVRd for a few more weeks.  True, we analyze the games vs us (especially when we get whipped) a lot more than we do games that don't involve us.  However, one would think that the weird HAM D would have stood out, at least to someone on this forum!!

Perhaps HAM used it sparingly vs other teams before they played us, but realized early in the vs WPG game that Hall had no answer for it at all, and thus turned the whole game into that scheme.  It sure as heck is obvious CJ planned for it and neutralized it, and he didn't do that in-game, he did that pre-game with film study and game planning.

No, none of this excuses Hall for not being able to adjust against a new look.  However, if it's so crazy a look that he literally had no idea, then I can somewhat understand.  What if a team came to IGF next time and had a 9 man OL on their first play?  Would any coach in the CFL have any idea what to make of that?  And what if it proved brilliant?  That's kind of what we were dealing with.  How do you deal with something you've never thought of or practised against?

You all realize that Hall will be ready for that 7OL look in our next HAM game, right?  If JJ was really sneaky, he'd abandon that look completely and switch to something else just to catch us off guard and wasting our time chasing shadows.


Not true, Hamilton played the same O scheme against Edm and Cgy. the first two weeks of the season that they used against Wpg. in week #3.  Whitlock a D.E. has been parked in the backfield as a R.B. all season long in addition to their double T.E. formation.  Mazoli's accuracy along with his magical ability to escape pressure seems to have vanished.
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lenny
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« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2018, 02:27:11 PM »

Not true, Hamilton played the same O scheme against Edm and Cgy. the first two weeks of the season that they used against Wpg. in week #3.  Whitlock a D.E. has been parked in the backfield as a R.B. all season long in addition to their double T.E. formation.  Mazoli's accuracy along with his magical ability to escape pressure seems to have vanished.

It vanished because Jones in Sask. was pulling stunts, 3-4s,4-3s, bringing the house, backing off with blitz looks initially, etc., spying Masoli. I saw less of that in the Hamilton game but Jones managed to get in the head of Masoli and the OC. The final example of that was Masoli fumbling the ball late in the game with a couple of Sask. d guys coming strong at him. No one touched him but he panicked.. Not one TD pass in 2 games. Masterful d. Hall is incapable of that kind of strategy or is unwilling to risk. Jones is the polar opposite of Hall. 
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2018, 02:33:48 PM »

Yes, Hall should have found a way, any way, but maybe he's never played against a all-7-front-all-the-time O before in his whole life!  Heck, how many of us have seen that before?  I don't remember it anywhere.  That's why we were all shocked in the gameday thread when it was occurring.

To address your point, I don't recall TiCats doing the all-7 in their 2(?) earlier games.  I didn't notice anything special about their D at all.  I sure wish I had kept those games PVRd for a few more weeks.  True, we analyze the games vs us (especially when we get whipped) a lot more than we do games that don't involve us.  However, one would think that the weird HAM D would have stood out, at least to someone on this forum!!

Perhaps HAM used it sparingly vs other teams before they played us, but realized early in the vs WPG game that Hall had no answer for it at all, and thus turned the whole game into that scheme.  It sure as heck is obvious CJ planned for it and neutralized it, and he didn't do that in-game, he did that pre-game with film study and game planning.

No, none of this excuses Hall for not being able to adjust against a new look.  However, if it's so crazy a look that he literally had no idea, then I can somewhat understand.  What if a team came to IGF next time and had a 9 man OL on their first play?  Would any coach in the CFL have any idea what to make of that?  And what if it proved brilliant?  That's kind of what we were dealing with.  How do you deal with something you've never thought of or practised against?

You all realize that Hall will be ready for that 7OL look in our next HAM game, right?  If JJ was really sneaky, he'd abandon that look completely and switch to something else just to catch us off guard and wasting our time chasing shadows.


7 man front meant 8 players in coverage against 4 receivers and we still couldn't keep close to receivers. So I call BS on any of this being new to Hall.

The Riders and Ticats both looked inept on offense yesterday. A few big plays by the Riders and a few stupid plays by the Ticats cost them the win.

A quick kick / onside formation on 3rd and 13 from their own end? Did that fool anybody in the country. That was the big momentum shift and was as dumb a play as I've seen in quite some time by any team.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 02:45:54 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2018, 02:42:55 PM »

7 man front meant 8 players in coverage against 4 receivers and we still couldn't keep close to receivers. So I call BS on any of this being new to Hall.

The Riders and Ticats both looked inept on offense yesterday. A few big plays by the Riders and a few stupid plays by the Ticats cost them the win.

A quick kick formation on 3rd and 13 from their own end? Did that fool anybody in the country. That was the big momentum shift and was as dumb a play as I've seen in quite some time by any team.

I couldn't believe that play, no reason at all to pull it, they had the lead and good field position and an ordinary punt would have put the Riders back on their 10.  June Jones blew that game open with that boneheaded call, I hope O'Shea took note of the damage a worthless gamble can incur.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 02:52:29 PM by Throw Long Bannatyne » Logged
Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2018, 02:47:31 PM »

The Riders won back to back (with a week off in the middle) against the Ticats who beat us badly.

Are the Riders better than we thought they were? Are we worse than we thought we were? Are the Ticats as good as we made them out to be?

The Riders win puts some extra pressure on us to win tomorrow so we don't fall too far behind. If the Lions win tonight, the pressure will be even higher.

They aren't a great team overall but the Rider defense keeps them in every game. I think they've been lucky to pull out both wins against the Cats. Doesn't seem like a long-term formula for success but if you're a Rider fan you've got to feel pretty good. The Rider offense is less effective than ours by every measure and yet their defense gets off the field and plays good ball even if the offense is going two and out. If we had the Rider defense we would easily be 4-1.
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Horseman
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« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2018, 03:28:35 PM »

Why is it our defenders are always playing off the receiver and other teams DB's seem to be covering the receivers closely. This is the question I am going to ask MOS on his call in show. I can't wait for his BS answer, probably something like we aren't we play a variety of covers, man, zone and combination. My response will be THEN WHY ARE THE RECEIVERS SO FRIGGEN OPEN ON EVERY PASS PLAY! (Yelling like Sheldon) 
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2018, 03:39:53 PM »

Why is it our defenders are always playing off the receiver and other teams DB's seem to be covering the receivers closely. This is the question I am going to ask MOS on his call in show. I can't wait for his BS answer, probably something like we aren't we play a variety of covers, man, zone and combination. My response will be THEN WHY ARE THE RECEIVERS SO FRIGGEN OPEN ON EVERY PASS PLAY! (Yelling like Sheldon) 

It's Hall's style to play soft coverage and wait for the opponent to make a mistake. He hasn't changed that strategy since he's been in Winnipeg.
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Horseman
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« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2018, 03:56:43 PM »

It's Hall's style to play soft coverage and wait for the opponent to make a mistake. He hasn't changed that strategy since he's been in Winnipeg.

Yes, I know, but I want to hear how MOS answers this.
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kkc60
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« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2018, 03:58:25 PM »

Yes, I know, but I want to hear how MOS answers this.
*insert stale response which offers no emotion or info*
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Pigskin
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« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2018, 04:06:04 PM »

Has anyone heard from the Catsfan.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2018, 04:08:19 PM »

The riders seem match up nicely against the Cats.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2018, 04:18:54 PM »

Yes, I know, but I want to hear how MOS answers this.

He'll say he's confidant in Hall, the system and the players They will review the tapes and make corrections. He'll be more involved.

Not really much else he can say and he's been saying it for ever.
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lenny
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« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2018, 04:29:54 PM »

Seems like Catsfan was all about how good the Bombers were and just keep the faith etc. It's called patronizing. That was before his team sunk two straight with the Roughriders. Roll Eyes
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The Zipp
Global Moderator
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Posts: 12428


Who gives a flying Buck...


« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2018, 05:04:48 PM »

They aren't a great team overall but the Rider defense keeps them in every game. I think they've been lucky to pull out both wins against the Cats. Doesn't seem like a long-term formula for success but if you're a Rider fan you've got to feel pretty good. The Rider offense is less effective than ours by every measure and yet their defense gets off the field and plays good ball even if the offense is going two and out. If we had the Rider defense we would easily be 4-1.

Thankfully playoffs are a ways away but I would say the riders would have a better shot at winning a playoff game than the bombers right now.  Their defence can shut a team down - ours cannot.  There is room for improvement but the rider D is far faster and more agressive than the Bombers
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Horseman
Hero Member
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Posts: 1268


« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2018, 05:23:18 PM »

Thankfully playoffs are a ways away but I would say the riders would have a better shot at winning a playoff game than the bombers right now.  Their defence can shut a team down - ours cannot.  There is room for improvement but the rider D is far faster and more agressive than the Bombers
Yes, I agree.
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In Motion
Sr. Member
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Posts: 442



« Reply #57 on: July 21, 2018, 02:06:13 AM »

I couldn't believe that play, no reason at all to pull it, they had the lead and good field position and an ordinary punt would have put the Riders back on their 10.  June Jones blew that game open with that boneheaded call, I hope O'Shea took note of the damage a worthless gamble can incur.

I haven't been able to figure out a number of coaches' calls this season. I think when some of them get frustrated,
they try to pull a rabbit out of a hat. It rarely works, and the team loses. Campbell kept his head on straight in the
BC game tonight, made zero dumb calls, and thus he helped his team win. I hope O'Shea can become as reliable.
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