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Author Topic: "10 faces in new places"  (Read 2594 times)
Chris1982
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« on: April 03, 2018, 12:11:48 PM »

Good read -

https://www.cfl.ca/2018/04/03/nye-10-faces-new-places-keep-eye/

As always, it has been an interesting off-season in the Canadian Football League with veteran players moving to new locations.

Here is a top 10 list of the players I think will either make the biggest impact or have the most intrigue on what they will actually bring to their new team:

10. JAMES FRANKLIN ? TORONTO ARGONAUTS

Franklin would be in the top five, if not number one on this list, if Ricky Ray didn?t return to the Argonauts this off-season. But that doesn?t make me any more or less intrigued by the quarterback?s move to Toronto as the next in line for Marc Trestman and the Argonauts.

If past history is an indication, we will see Franklin run this offence for at least a week or two as Ray hasn?t been able to make it through an entire season.

9. CHARLESTON HUGHES ? SASKATCHEWAN ROUGHRIDERS

Hughes in Rider Green is going to be a hard thing for Stampeder fans to get over in 2018. What may be harder is the fact Hughes is now opposite Willie Jefferson on the Roughriders defensive line as they have to be considered the best 1-2 pass rush in the Canadian Football League.

The most intriguing aspect of this move is more so on the Stampeders side. Did General Manager John Hufnagel give up on Hughes a year or two too early? Or did the Stamps GM do it again, and it?ll be the Riders who live with the regret of bringing in an aging Hughes?

8. TOMMIE CAMPBELL ? MONTREAL ALOUETTES

The Montreal Alouettes defence was the worst in the Canadian Football League in 2017. I also could have slid Jamaal Westerman in the top 10 for moves as well. The Alouettes need help but Campbell needs to be the lockdown corner he was in Calgary to help a defence that gave up the most yards and the most points per game.

Campbell is just part of the makeover of an Alouette defence that needs to be much better, but if he can lock down his side of the field against some of the best receivers in the league, he?ll make General Manager Kavis Reed look much better.

7. CHANDLER FENNER ? WINNIPEG BLUE BOMBERS

The Winnipeg Blue Bombers gave up the most passing yards in the Canadian Football League in 2018. Imagine if their defence was just a touch better? How many more wins would they have had rather than the 12 they accumulated anyway?

Fenner brings in great playmaking ability and a tonne of quickness to their defence. He was everywhere for the BC Lions both on defence and special teams and I expect him to add to an already stellar playmaking defence. But an improvement in coverage would put less reliance on the Bombers? necessity to turn the ball over, which they can?t continue to do at the pace in which they have been the last few seasons.

I also look for Fenner to be a key factor in what will be a different looking defence this season as Mike O?Shea will push defensive coordinator Richie Hall to be a little bit more aggressive with his defensive backs.

6. DEREK DENNIS ? CALGARY STAMPEDERS

I?m giving the offensive line some love with Derek Dennis, who could have made this list last year with his move to Saskatchewan.

Now, the question is if the former Outstanding Offensive Lineman can return to the great play he achieved in 2016 with the Stampeders or was his disappointing 2017 in Saskatchewan a more accurate portrayal of his play?

After a year with the Riders, Derek Dennis is back in his familiar red and white (David Moll/Stampeders.com)

If Dennis can lock down again for a Stampeders? offensive line that lost veteran tackle Dan Federkeil to retirement, the Stamps offence will continue to hum. If there is at all a let down up front and Bo Levi Mitchell gets more pressure on him, I expect a substantial drop off in the Stamps? ability to stay on top of the West Division.

This isn?t all on Derek Dennis, of course, but that doesn?t mean I am any less intrigued by the impact he makes back in Calgary.

5. LOUCHEIZ PURIFOY ? OTTAWA REDBLACKS

I was bullish on Purifoy last season, then the BC Lions changed his position numerous times throughout the season. If the REDBLACKS utilize him closer to the line of scrimmage, I think he?ll be a Most Outstanding Defensive player candidate as I pegged him last year.

Ottawa was in the bottom half of the league in passing defence so Purifoy could help impact that at half or SAM linebacker. However they use him, I like Purifoy as one of the top defensive players who were available this off-season.

4. ODELL WILLIS ? BC LIONS

Odell Willis? story is very similar to Charleston Hughes in that we will see if Brock Sunderland in Edmonton read the tea leaves properly.

The BC Lions needed a dramatic improvement in their front four and Odell Willis has been one of the best pass rushers over the last half decade or more. When you combine sacks and quarterback pressures, Odell ranked third behind Willie Jefferson and John Bowman last season. He?s clearly still got it and could improve the Lions? front and if they improve there, it will improve their secondary which was lacking in the interception category.

Honourable Mention to Gabriel Knapton. Knapton had 29 sacks in three seasons until a drop off last year in Montreal. He may beat out Willis for sacks this season.

3. CHRIS WILLIAMS ? MONTREAL ALOUETTES

Speed kills and the Alouettes got a bit more of it with Chris Williams coming on board. What Chris Williams can do is spread the defence out to give more room to a player like Ernest Jackson underneath.

But for Chris Williams to be productive, the Alouettes need a quarterback to get him the ball so putting Williams this high is twofold. If Williams is impactful to the Alouettes? season like I think he can be, they?ve found someone who can get him the ball.

If they don?t, then Williams will be a bust and it?ll all be for naught when it comes to building the receiving corps in Montreal.

2. ADARIUS BOWMAN ? WINNIPEG BLUE BOMBERS

Bowman landing in Winnipeg is a huge deal. He had a down year in Edmonton but was clearly hampered by injuries throughout the season, even missing six games.

A healthy Bowman can still bring in a 1,000-yard season and you add him to an offence with Darvin Adams, Weston Dressler, Andrew Harris and another newcomer in Nik Demski. The Bombers are going to be able to put points on the board with with an expected improvement on defence. I again have to ponder if the Bombers can actually improve on their 12 win season from last year.

1. ZACH COLLAROS ? SASKATCHEWAN ROUGHRIDERS

Zach Collaros will/could have the biggest impact by any player on any team this season. In my opinion, Collaros still has the goods to be the MOP he appeared to be in 2015. Injuries and other factors led to a decline in production and eventually a string of losses that gave the Tiger-Cats no choice but to move on.

The Roughriders could be the benefactor to that. If Collaros returns to the play that helped get the Tiger-Cats to a Grey Cup and appeared to be well on their way to another, the Riders will be on their way to a Grey Cup themselves.

The missing piece was a franchise quarterback for Chris Jones? rebuild in Saskatchewan. If he found him, Jones will show that President Craig Reynolds was right to pay Jones big bucks to come to Riderville.

« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 01:21:14 PM by Chris1982 » Logged
gbill2004
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2018, 12:14:03 PM »


Chandler Fenner only player mentioned for Bombers.

Plus Adarius Bowman. 
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Bond
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2018, 04:53:58 PM »

Hopefully Bowman plays better than the last time he wore Blue.

Fenner is a great get, his flexibility can?t be over stated.   Hopefully Richie doesn?t handcuff him.
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dd
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2018, 09:56:07 PM »

Didn?t realize so many ?big names? moved around this year. Hamilton and Edmonton didn?t pick up any top 10 big names and actually exported some!!! Eskies are going to be limping after loosing both Willis and Bowman, big impact players on each side of the ball and Hamilton will struggle to be a 500 team this season.
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Chris1982
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« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2018, 10:15:30 PM »

Didn?t realize so many ?big names? moved around this year. Hamilton and Edmonton didn?t pick up any top 10 big names and actually exported some!!! Eskies are going to be limping after loosing both Willis and Bowman, big impact players on each side of the ball and Hamilton will struggle to be a 500 team this season.

Yeah BC picked up Willis and Knapton.... their front 7 should be much improved from last season.
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dd
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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2018, 12:32:17 AM »

Ya, BC's front beefed up for sure, and Sask got Collaros and Hughes, we got Bowman and Fenner, Calgary lost Hughes and Edmonton lost Willis and Bowman. The West is going to be a dog fight this year!!
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Chris1982
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2018, 10:09:55 AM »

I am wondering how Jerome Messam did not end up on this list.  To me, he is easily one of the more intriguing player additions this offseason. 
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gbill2004
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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2018, 10:29:55 AM »

I am wondering how Jerome Messam did not end up on this list.  To me, he is easily one of the more intriguing player additions this offseason. 
He's 33 years old now, and isn't the same player he once was. 
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Chris1982
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2018, 10:40:30 AM »

He's 33 years old now, and isn't the same player he once was. 

Well thats your opinion.  To me, it is intriguing considering the inconsistency of the Roughriders running game last year.  Even though he isnt as good as he once was, I think he is going to change the entire look of their offense this year compared to last year.
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GCn17
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« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2018, 11:19:51 AM »

Hopefully Bowman plays better than the last time he wore Blue.

Fenner is a great get, his flexibility can?t be over stated.   Hopefully Richie doesn?t handcuff him.

You should be more worried that Jones will handcuff Jefferson and Hughes pass rush by playing a 3 man front most of the game.
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Bond
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« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2018, 04:38:17 PM »

He's 33 years old now, and isn't the same player he once was. 

That?s only 2 years older than Harris.  Messam?s YPC may have been down last season but he was still a 1,000 yard RB, one of only 3 last year. 
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2018, 05:27:38 PM »

I am wondering how Jerome Messam did not end up on this list.  To me, he is easily one of the more intriguing player additions this offseason. 

Probably because the ten players on the list are more significant additions to their respective teams.

That?s only 2 years older than Harris.  Messam?s YPC may have been down last season but he was still a 1,000 yard RB, one of only 3 last year. 

His YPC was way down last season. Behind one of the league's best O-lines. Of course you'd forget to mention that, something which is a luxury he won't have in 2018.

Weird how you're apparently a diehard blue and gold fan, but can't help run to the greenies' defense whenever they're criticized on here.
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Bond
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« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2018, 07:35:52 PM »

His YPC was way down last season. Behind one of the league's best O-lines. Of course you'd forget to mention that, something which is a luxury he won't have in 2018.

Like I said, Messam is one of only 3 RBs who rushed for 1000 yards last season & he still had just under 5 YPC average, the same YPC average that Andrew Harris had in 2015 with the Lions.   Oh and Messam also led the league in rushing touchdowns.   

Quote
Weird how you're apparently a diehard blue and gold fan, but can't help run to the greenies' defense whenever they're criticized on here.

I?m a big Blue Bombers fan, but I?m a bigger CFL fan.   I don?t always see things with blue tinted glasses.  Messam is a horse & if we didn?t have Harris he would be one guy I?d love to have on our team.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 07:41:07 PM by Bond » Logged
Chris1982
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« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2018, 09:02:50 PM »

Probably because the ten players on the list are more significant additions to their respective team

I get that.  I am not saying that Messam is still as good as he once was.  However I think it should be top 10 INTRIGUING additions.  Saskatchewan did not have a good run game last year, due to multiple injuries and I think seeing what Messam can bring to the table with Collaros is very intriguing.  Just my opinion though.

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theaardvark
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« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2018, 03:20:24 AM »

Messam is going to have a slightly lesser supporting cast this year...  its one thing to succeed on the Stamps, its another to survive the dumpster fire that SSK is... 
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dd
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« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2018, 03:56:48 AM »

Dumpster fire?!? How ya figure that?? Their receiving corps is second to none, they ve got the beast Messam hauling the rock, they signed Collaros--who left the dumpster fire Kent Austin set fire to, and they acquired Charleston Hughes, who with Jefferson, give the riders the best D line rush attack there is. Ya, real dumpster fire there for sure!!
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2018, 04:47:37 AM »

Dumpster fire?!? How ya figure that?? Their receiving corps is second to none, they ve got the beast Messam hauling the rock, they signed Collaros--who left the dumpster fire Kent Austin set fire to, and they acquired Charleston Hughes, who with Jefferson, give the riders the best D line rush attack there is. Ya, real dumpster fire there for sure!!
The Riders look pretty good but their fortunes ride on Collaros.  If he can even regain a good percentage of what he had early in his career he will improve the Riders....but that remains to be seen.   They got to last year?s East final through Ottawa and then lost to the eventual GC champs.....so they done good....better than we did.   Jones may be rather bizarre at times....but he?s not stupid....somewhat arrogant yes.....but he?s won a Cup....just my opinion.   

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theaardvark
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« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2018, 05:16:07 AM »

Dumpster fire?!? How ya figure that?? Their receiving corps is second to none, they ve got the beast Messam hauling the rock, they signed Collaros--who left the dumpster fire Kent Austin set fire to, and they acquired Charleston Hughes, who with Jefferson, give the riders the best D line rush attack there is. Ya, real dumpster fire there for sure!!

Awesome o-line and no Canadian depth... sure, they have a few receivers, but beyond that what do they have on O?

but sure, Messam and Hughes reclaimed from the Stamps scrapheap, and Collaros from the Tabbies, Hurl stolen from us Wink ...

And Carter, who if he does beat his multiple charges, is still going to require counseling from a guy that is already overstretched, doing multiple jobs that Hufnagel, Buono, and Austin have all decided it not a reasonable idea.  But "Hubris" Jones thinks he can do it...
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« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2018, 11:47:10 AM »

Ok.  Does anyone. Think the Bombers can stop the Riders run game?  All they have to do is hand the ball to Messam, and they score.

I think they have a better team easily.
Head to head match ups....they are better across the board. Sad but true.
Bombers can't seem to sign what they need.
And the albatross of a lack of playoff success......equates to whatever happens between May and Octiber is just entertainment.

When the going gets tough, the Bombers just get .lol!
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Chris1982
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« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2018, 12:02:24 PM »

Ok.  Does anyone. Think the Bombers can stop the Riders run game?  All they have to do is hand the ball to Messam, and they score.

I think they have a better team easily.
Head to head match ups....they are better across the board. Sad but true.
Bombers can't seem to sign what they need.
And the albatross of a lack of playoff success......equates to whatever happens between May and Octiber is just entertainment.

When the going gets tough, the Bombers just get .lol!

I agree with previous posters that Messam is not as good as he once was, but he is definitely still going to be a big presence and tough to take down.  He is going to bring a whole new dimension to the Riders offense that they have been lacking the past few years. 
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« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2018, 12:43:53 PM »

Dumpster fire?!? How ya figure that?? Their receiving corps is second to none, they ve got the beast Messam hauling the rock, they signed Collaros--who left the dumpster fire Kent Austin set fire to, and they acquired Charleston Hughes, who with Jefferson, give the riders the best D line rush attack there is. Ya, real dumpster fire there for sure!!

I don't buy this. Roosevelt is really good, but can't stay healthy. Carter is a head case whose career best is 1,043 yards, despite being "the most talent receiver in the history of the world", Grant has been average at best for most of his career, Holley is a 600 yard receiver until proven otherwise, and Bagg is just a guy.

I'd take Hamilton's group over Sask, and probably the potential of Calgary's group too.
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dd
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« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2018, 01:04:50 PM »

Ok.  Does anyone. Think the Bombers can stop the Riders run game?  All they have to do is hand the ball to Messam, and they score.

I think they have a better team easily.
Head to head match ups....they are better across the board. Sad but true.
Bombers can't seem to sign what they need.
And the albatross of a lack of playoff success......equates to whatever happens between May and Octiber is just entertainment.

When the going gets tough, the Bombers just get .lol!
Messam is a beast, if Collaros struggles, they simply hand the rock off to him and he will pound us senseless. If Collaros doesn't struggle, yikes!!! Like I said, they may not be Grey Cup favourites, but they are a far, far cry from a dumpster fire.

IF, and its a dramatic big if, we sign Muamba, I believe our run stopping problems are solved, plus we get a very solid NAT starter--which is why I can't believe we haven't signed him. If we don't sign him, our run D is questionable/unknown at best and our NAT ratio isn't as strong...all of this for $20,000, sounds like a steal of a deal to me.
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Bond
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« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2018, 02:14:17 PM »

I don't buy this. Roosevelt is really good, but can't stay healthy. Carter is a head case whose career best is 1,043 yards, despite being "the most talent receiver in the history of the world", Grant has been average at best for most of his career, Holley is a 600 yard receiver until proven otherwise, and Bagg is just a guy.

Roosevelt can?t stay healthy?  He had one injury last year & missed 4 games.  That?s like saying Darvin Adams can?t stay healthy

Carter?s talent is unquestionable.  He had over 1000 yards receiving and played 4 games on defence.
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Bond
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« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2018, 02:19:36 PM »

I agree with previous posters that Messam is not as good as he once was, but he is definitely still going to be a big presence and tough to take down.  He is going to bring a whole new dimension to the Riders offense that they have been lacking the past few years. 

Agreed.  Messam had the same YPC average last year as Andrew Harris did in his last year with BC.   
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booch
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« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2018, 03:28:27 PM »

Messam is hardly a force now...he gets bagged early and a few big its in a game really takes a toll on him. Some games after a big run he had to sit for pretty much sometimes the rest of the offensive series ...and he has a weak oline in front of him now..probably bottom 3rd in the league in quality...and last in depth.

All these Sask tire pumpers...fans and media alike are going to realize they are a 500 team...and thats if Collaros plays halfway decent...if he doesn't...she gonna be ugly there
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theaardvark
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« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2018, 03:45:44 PM »

Ok.  Does anyone. Think the Bombers can stop the Riders run game?  All they have to do is hand the ball to Messam, and they score.

I think they have a better team easily.
Head to head match ups....they are better across the board. Sad but true.
Bombers can't seem to sign what they need.
And the albatross of a lack of playoff success......equates to whatever happens between May and Octiber is just entertainment.

When the going gets tough, the Bombers just get .lol!

Messam last year against us...

DATE    WEEK   OPP    CAR YDS TD AVG    LG
07-07    3        WPG    17    71    0    4.2    9
11-03    20    WPG      12    30    0    2.5    6


Not scared of Messam, especially with Collaros and their Oline...
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3rdand1.5
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« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2018, 03:46:31 PM »

Sask is going to be the "biggest" team to watch;
why?
my opinion as to why I think this;

Offence
-huge gamble on Colloris, a very interesting storyline in itself to watch unfold.....will he be 2015 version again?
-o-line strong on paper, but again riddlled with questions, can they stay healthy as depth is very poor, and another great storyline to unfold is can Bond who was a great guard be a great tackle?
-recievers, wow that's talent! always a storyline in itself is how long is Carters leash, and what "controversy" will he cause?
-RB one of the best over the last few seasons, Messam does he still have anything left in that tank of a body he has? again a storyline in itself.

Defence;
-That d-line rivals the best in recent memory, will it be as good as it looks on paper?
-LB well Muamba vs. Hurl.....very good vs. ok
-DB how long can JJ play at the level he is?

Overall the team appears to have talent and some really strong areas. The thing is Jones has gone "all in" on a few spots and if it works he could very well be hoisting another cup with that roster. The problem I see for them though is there are lots of "ifs" Many stars have to line up for them to realize the "paper talent"
whether they go 18-0 or 0-18 there will be lot's of eyes and storylines surrounding this years Riders.
I can only imagine the nicknames and storyboards Rod Black will run with with the Riders...lol
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2018, 03:51:36 PM »

Messam is a beast, if Collaros struggles, they simply hand the rock off to him and he will pound us senseless. If Collaros doesn't struggle, yikes!!! Like I said, they may not be Grey Cup favourites, but they are a far, far cry from a dumpster fire.

How much success did Messam have last season vs. the Bombers? In two games, he had 29 CAR for 101 yards (3.5 YPC). Behind a top tier O-line. Did you even watch him?

Ease up on the chicken little emotion-posting.

Roosevelt can?t stay healthy?  He had one injury last year & missed 4 games.  That?s like saying Darvin Adams can?t stay healthy

He was also injured the previous two seasons, missing a total of 15 games. Over three seasons, he's played 35 games and missed 19.

But of course you'd resort to deflection yet again.

Agreed.  Messam had the same YPC average last year as Andrew Harris did in his last year with BC.   

Such baffling cherry-picking of stats. What does Harris' YPC average in 2015 have to do with anything? Oh, wait... That's just more deflection.

"What a diehard CFL fan," said nobody ever.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2018, 03:55:08 PM »

SSK will be the team to watch, that's for sure...





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Bond
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« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2018, 04:19:30 PM »

Such baffling cherry-picking of stats. What does Harris' YPC average in 2015 have to do with anything? Oh, wait... That's just more deflection.

"What a diehard CFL fan," said nobody ever.

I never cherry picked anything, others used Messam?s YPC stats last year as indication he?s done.  I just stated that Harris? similar stats in 2015 suggest otherwise.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2018, 04:22:44 PM »

I never cherry picked anything, others used Messam?s YPC stats last year as indication he?s done.  I just stated that Harris? similar stats in 2015 suggest otherwise.

No, it doesn't.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2018, 04:32:38 PM »

I never cherry picked anything, others used Messam?s YPC stats last year as indication he?s done.  I just stated that Harris? similar stats in 2015 suggest otherwise.
What you did is actually the definition of cherry-picking. 
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Bond
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« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2018, 04:33:06 PM »

No, it doesn't.

Who knew 4.7 yards per carry by Harris in 2015 differs from the exact same stats by Messam in 2017.  Roll Eyes
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theaardvark
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« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2018, 04:39:24 PM »

I never cherry picked anything, others used Messam?s YPC stats last year as indication he?s done.  I just stated that Harris? similar stats in 2015 suggest otherwise.

Take one stat, compare it to a random year of another players stats, and imply that they are equal?  Do you even English bro?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_(disambiguation)

Cherry picking is the fallacy of selecting evidence that supports an argument while ignoring evidence that contradicts it.
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Bond
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« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2018, 04:42:09 PM »

Take one stat, compare it to a random year of another players stats, and imply that they are equal?  Do you even English bro?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_(disambiguation)

Cherry picking is the fallacy of selecting evidence that supports an argument while ignoring evidence that contradicts it.

All I did was compare a stat someone else used as evidence to suggest Messam was done.  Don?t throw a grenade and cry foul when someone throws it back.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2018, 04:47:40 PM »

All I did was compare a stat someone else used as evidence to suggest Messam was done.  Don?t throw a grenade and cry foul when someone throws it back.

But that doesn't substantiate or prove anything. Committing a logical fallacy is a sure-fire way to destroy one's own argument. Well done. You've effectively taken said grenade but when you threw it back, you fumbled it and the grenade landed at your feet.
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« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2018, 05:32:36 PM »

if he wasn't done CGY wouldn't have told him to seek out options...and if you watched last half of last year...he struggled..especially if he had to carry the work load...and had next to no stamina left in the tank..If you are hitching a wagon to him as a ratio starting entity on your team your in trouble...as who is to back him up? and not lose an import receiver ?

As for that elite receiving corp...As mentioned Rosie is a band aid...is not a spring chicken anymore and is most likely another concussion away from being out longterm...Bakari Grant had an aberration of a season and won't replicate that again...ever...Bagg is on downside...and not much of a threat last year already...Carter...great some games...average some...non-existent others and I bet this year will cause issues within the room....so whats so great about that? I'd take Edmonton..B.C and and even Winnipeg over that show
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Darwinismyhomeboy
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« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2018, 06:49:07 PM »

Another thread turned into talking about Saskatchewan.  ewwww.

I suspect Saskatchewan, like all teams, being good or bad is going to depend a lot on health.  Any team loses one or two starting oline for any length of time and you are finished.  Started QB goes down...good luck.  It's a long long season and typically team that is health at the end stands the best chance.
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bluebeard
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« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2018, 10:27:57 PM »

Another thread turned into talking about Saskatchewan.  ewwww.

I suspect Saskatchewan, like all teams, being good or bad is going to depend a lot on health.  Any team loses one or two starting oline for any length of time and you are finished.  Started QB goes down...good luck.  It's a long long season and typically team that is health at the end stands the best chance.
Now that makes good sense...........well put.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2018, 04:28:01 AM »

OK, Bond & other Messam-lovers, what does SSK do on O when Messam comes off every couple of plays to catch his breath?  How do they maintain the ratio?  No LaFrance to put in instead.  No Demski.  What NAT can they possibly put in the backfield when old-man Messam is catching his breath on the sidelines?  Or does Jones just flat out cheat the ratio?

Our O RB/REC depth means that BB won't have a similar problem with Harris.  Better yet, Harris seems to stay in for waaaay more plays than Messam does.
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Chris1982
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« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2018, 09:06:45 AM »

OK, Bond & other Messam-lovers, what does SSK do on O when Messam comes off every couple of plays to catch his breath?  How do they maintain the ratio?  No LaFrance to put in instead.  No Demski.  What NAT can they possibly put in the backfield when old-man Messam is catching his breath on the sidelines?  Or does Jones just flat out cheat the ratio?

Our O RB/REC depth means that BB won't have a similar problem with Harris.  Better yet, Harris seems to stay in for waaaay more plays than Messam does.


Why do you think their backup RB has to be NAT?  Last year for a few games at the end of the season, they ran their offense with Trent Richardson at RB and he is an INT.  Considering Messam is NAT, why could they not use an INT to give Messam a breather?  Not sure what their ratio is right now or what difference this makes....
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the paw
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« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2018, 04:51:57 PM »

Why do you think their backup RB has to be NAT?  Last year for a few games at the end of the season, they ran their offense with Trent Richardson at RB and he is an INT.  Considering Messam is NAT, why could they not use an INT to give Messam a breather?  Not sure what their ratio is right now or what difference this makes....

Yes, they will use Richardson or Marshall or Christian Jones or Thigpen as a DI that can come in to rest Messam.  When they do that, they will likely sub in Devon Bailey or Jake Harty for Bakari Grant to keep the ratio balanced. 
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Chris1982
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« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2018, 04:56:16 PM »

Yes, they will use Richardson or Marshall or Christian Jones or Thigpen as a DI that can come in to rest Messam.  When they do that, they will likely sub in Devon Bailey or Jake Harty for Bakari Grant to keep the ratio balanced. 

I just didn't understand his logic as to why he thinks their backup has to be NAT. There's no reason I could see.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2018, 05:03:04 PM »

I just didn't understand his logic as to why he thinks their backup has to be NAT. There's no reason I could see.
Doesn't have to be, but it's a lot easier to manage during an in-game injury, if the backup to the injured national starter is also a national. Otherwise you need to sub in a national starter elsewhere on the roster.  This topic has been discussed quite a bit here in the past and is an interesting disucssion.   
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Chris1982
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« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2018, 06:16:33 PM »

Doesn't have to be, but it's a lot easier to manage during an in-game injury, if the backup to the injured national starter is also a national. Otherwise you need to sub in a national starter elsewhere on the roster.  This topic has been discussed quite a bit here in the past and is an interesting disucssion.   

I understand that.  I am not questioning the "theory" behind it.  I fully understand the ratio.  I just meant that he specifically mentioned Sask needing a NAT RB to spell Messam.  I was just questioning his isolated case.  Not the whole theory of NAT vs. INT ratio. 
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bluebeard
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« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2018, 06:39:29 PM »

OK, Bond & other Messam-lovers, what does SSK do on O when Messam comes off every couple of plays to catch his breath?  How do they maintain the ratio?  No LaFrance to put in instead.  No Demski.  What NAT can they possibly put in the backfield when old-man Messam is catching his breath on the sidelines?  Or does Jones just flat out cheat the ratio?

Our O RB/REC depth means that BB won't have a similar problem with Harris.  Better yet, Harris seems to stay in for waaaay more plays than Messam does.

How about like they did last year.......they put in Spencer Moore their FB for blocking purposes.  They throw the ball way more then running it.
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Chris1982
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« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2018, 06:58:39 PM »

I dont see how this is an issue.  If anything, its a huge benefit.

Last year they ran the majority of their season with an INT RB (Cameron Marshall or Trent Richardson).  Messam is NAT, which is only a benefit.

I havent seen the rest of their projected roster for this year, but strictly from an RB standpoint ratio, there is no issue.

I know Bond is INT, was their entire offensive line NAT last year?
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2018, 07:06:44 PM »

I know Bond is INT, was their entire offensive line NAT last year?

Nope. Campbell and Dennis are both INT.
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bluebeard
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« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2018, 07:26:29 PM »

Coleman (Int) played the RT spot last year and when they had injury problems on the OL they put in Bladek (Nat).  Also hearing that St John may be spelling Coleman this year to get reps.  I'm told that he should have been the 6th OL last season but got injured in training camp.  Then he couldn't get back in because of the good play of Bladek.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2018, 07:32:03 PM »

Coleman (Int) played the RT spot last year and when they had injury problems on the OL they put in Bladek (Nat).  Also hearing that St John may be spelling Coleman this year to get reps.  I'm told that he should have been the 6th OL last season but got injured in training camp.  Then he couldn't get back in because of the good play of Bladek.
St John looks like a pylon from what I?ve seen of him.
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RebusRankin
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« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2018, 07:32:32 PM »

How about like they did last year.......they put in Spencer Moore their FB for blocking purposes.  They throw the ball way more then running it.


If you put Moore in just to block, it meets the ratio requirement but also tips off the D that its a pass play. Its more likely, they take Messam out, put in an int rb and then have to put in Devon Bailey for an int receiver.
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booch
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« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2018, 07:32:36 PM »

doesn't say much for St John then as Bladek looked pretty pedestrian and when teams disguised fronts and did twists and stunts looked hopelessly lost and over matched..
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blue_gold_84
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Fort Hew


« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2018, 07:41:39 PM »

Forgot about Coleman, who's also an INT. He'll be 33 this year.
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bluebeard
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« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2018, 08:09:34 PM »

doesn't say much for St John then as Bladek looked pretty pedestrian and when teams disguised fronts and did twists and stunts looked hopelessly lost and over matched..
Bladek only took over during injuries during the game as far as  I remember.  To me, and I'm no expert, he looked very good. He did not give up any sacks.  I wonder if you may be thinking of someone else.  The Int that they got from Calgary was a turn style, but I can not remember his name.  He is back with Calgary this year.

I believe that St. John was a OT in college and never did play guard as the Riders played him.  He did not have the upper body strength to handle that spot.  He did look bad when he played that position for Regina.  Also he missed the entire TC that year because of not wanting to sign for what they offered.  Not making excuses but transitioning from American OL to CFL at another spot........it would seem to me to be hard.
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booch
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« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2018, 08:31:55 PM »

no...was Bladek...and yeah he came in when injuries occurred...looked over matched and confused. I sure he will progress and be better...or not....but from last years if he is expected to be a full-time starter he will struggle..as will their O-line...Bond or no Bond and from sounds of it he will be playing in a position where he is not nearly as effective
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2018, 08:34:09 PM »

Isn't Coleman suspended for a few games? That in itself may result in his eventual release before TC.
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bluebeard
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« Reply #56 on: April 06, 2018, 08:39:43 PM »

Isn't Coleman suspended for a few games? That in itself may result in his eventual release before TC.
Not as far as I know.  You may be thinking of Campbell.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2018, 08:46:03 PM »

I just didn't understand his logic as to why he thinks their backup has to be NAT. There's no reason I could see.

Sorry, I should have been more clear.  I meant that, obviously, when Messam comes off every 3-ish plays to suck oxygen, they'll need to shuffle the O a bit to maintain ratio.  My main point was with the "big name" ("decent name"?) NAT O talent gone (LaFrance/Demski) who will they put on?  I said "backfield" to mean RB and slot (and FB), but of course they could sub a (usually ignored) WR too.

But you guys proved my point when you filled me in on SSK's options as to who they sub for those plays (which will be at least half of all O plays based on Messam's on-field time last year) and it doesn't look pretty for SSK.  Their NAT non-OL O depth is no-name and mediocre at best.

WBB are in a far better position with the wealth of NAT O talent and depth, a key focus of Walters in FA.
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bluebeard
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« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2018, 08:46:59 PM »

no...was Bladek...and yeah he came in when injuries occurred...looked over matched and confused. I sure he will progress and be better...or not....but from last years if he is expected to be a full-time starter he will struggle..as will their O-line...Bond or no Bond and from sounds of it he will be playing in a position where he is not nearly as effective
The guy that I was thinking of was Derek Dennis.  Had a terrible season for Regina.  Started out as the LT and he could not handle that and they moved him to OG.  Did not do any better there.  Still think Bladek is a player but I have been wrong many times before.
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booch
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« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2018, 08:52:57 PM »

he may become a player sure..totally agree but he isn't there yet to be your solid CND starter...If they go that route..then they have some thin depth and limited options if he is the best out of camp. And truthfully both Clarke and Dyakowski last year were brutal..so of 5 potential starters as it stands now..Coleman is weakest Tackle in the league..Labatte is a walking bandaid now and in decline and Bond if he plays at Tackle will be grossly mis-used...so their line for first part of season is going to be trouble...and not a formula you want to try and get Collaros back on track...and Not sure he can/will even with an excellent o-line

He has been regressing for 2-3 years now
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #60 on: April 06, 2018, 09:03:05 PM »

Not as far as I know.  You may be thinking of Campbell.

Ah. Yes that's the player.
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bluebeard
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« Reply #61 on: April 06, 2018, 09:10:11 PM »

I don't think that I ever said that he would be a solid starter but that he did play well as a first year player when called upon when injuries happened.  I think that he did play well being a first year player out of college.  Will he progress past that.......I don't know.  For me, his limited play last season was good but he still has to take the next step.
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the paw
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« Reply #62 on: April 06, 2018, 09:14:45 PM »

Sorry, I should have been more clear.  I meant that, obviously, when Messam comes off every 3-ish plays to suck oxygen, they'll need to shuffle the O a bit to maintain ratio.  My main point was with the "big name" ("decent name"?) NAT O talent gone (LaFrance/Demski) who will they put on?  I said "backfield" to mean RB and slot (and FB), but of course they could sub a (usually ignored) WR too.

But you guys proved my point when you filled me in on SSK's options as to who they sub for those plays (which will be at least half of all O plays based on Messam's on-field time last year) and it doesn't look pretty for SSK.  Their NAT non-OL O depth is no-name and mediocre at best.

WBB are in a far better position with the wealth of NAT O talent and depth, a key focus of Walters in FA.


I agree Messam is slowing down a bit, but he?s hardly the wheezing geriatric you are making him out to be.

Messam led the league in rushing carries last year with 215 compared to Harris at 189.  His YPC was less than usual, but hw was still caring his share of the work.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2018, 03:43:14 AM »

I agree Messam is slowing down a bit, but he?s hardly the wheezing geriatric you are making him out to be.

Hehehe.  You're right, but nice thought, anyway.  I actually think Messam will fade away due to head injuries and concerns.  He's Cornish part 2.  Some RB can take the hits with zero head issues (i.e. Harris), some can't (Messam).
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theaardvark
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« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2018, 02:05:40 PM »

Hehehe.  You're right, but nice thought, anyway.  I actually think Messam will fade away due to head injuries and concerns.  He's Cornish part 2.  Some RB can take the hits with zero head issues (i.e. Harris), some can't (Messam).


Head trauma manifests in different ways, at different rates, with different results.  Not sure if head trauma is hurting Messam, or helping, because early in his career he was not a model CFL player, but more recently, he seems to have left his baggage behind....

Or he just grew up...

Regardless, health is always an issue with players as they age.  And he has played 18 games only 33% of his years in the league... and 66% of those were years 1 and 2...  running on SSK is going to be a lot harder and more dangerous than running on CGY was...
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the paw
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« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2018, 02:25:11 PM »



Regardless, health is always an issue with players as they age.  And he has played 18 games only 33% of his years in the league... and 66% of those were years 1 and 2...  running on SSK is going to be a lot harder and more dangerous than running on CGY was...

This is such a distortion.  Why do you do this?

Messam has played 18 games 3 times, but he has also played 17 games in two seasons.  The only season he played fewer than 14 games was 2012, when he missed half the season because he was with the Dolphins.  He has been very durable.

You can critique his effectiveness in YPC, but not his durability or the number of carries he has been getting.
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bluebeard
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« Reply #66 on: April 07, 2018, 02:50:38 PM »

Head trauma manifests in different ways, at different rates, with different results.  Not sure if head trauma is hurting Messam, or helping, because early in his career he was not a model CFL player, but more recently, he seems to have left his baggage behind....

Or he just grew up...

Regardless, health is always an issue with players as they age.  And he has played 18 games only 33% of his years in the league... and 66% of those were years 1 and 2...  running on SSK is going to be a lot harder and more dangerous than running on CGY was...
You're right Ards.  Messam was a hot head when he was young and fought in dressing rooms.  Broke one guys nose and believe that this was why BC let him go.  Very good football player but what I would call a wing nut.

At 6 3 and listed at 230, he is very hard to tackle head to head.  I do not recall him having concussion problems in the past and as he plays closer to 250 lbs, most teams tackle his lower body......legs hips etc.  He is a hard man to stand up and most defensive players grab on and wait for help.  If he leaves the game it probably be something like a blown out knee that will do the trick.

Believe that he went to Edmonton and they could not control him.  Sask got him from Montreal as he was not playing much and backed up.  

Marriage seems to have calmed him down and now like you said he seems to have left that baggage behind.

Age will take a toll no doubt but with careful handling, getting rest periods during a game, he may last longer then one suspects.
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BBRT
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« Reply #67 on: April 07, 2018, 04:53:25 PM »

This is such a distortion.  Why do you do this?

Messam has played 18 games 3 times, but he has also played 17 games in two seasons.  The only season he played fewer than 14 games was 2012, when he missed half the season because he was with the Dolphins.  He has been very durable.

You can critique his effectiveness in YPC, but not his durability or the number of carries he has been getting.
Easy to explain Aard's approach - if they play for the bombers they be good - if they play for anyone else they be bad! Been that way in the years past and do not see much changing. Just have to take him with a sold grain of salt so to speak. If Messam were in Bomber Blue -- Aards would be singing his praise to the high heavens!
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GCn17
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« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2018, 11:08:23 PM »

I agree Messam is slowing down a bit, but he?s hardly the wheezing geriatric you are making him out to be.

Messam led the league in rushing carries last year with 215 compared to Harris at 189.  His YPC was less than usual, but hw was still caring his share of the work.

Messam is capable of 200 carries, but his numbers precipitously dropped off in the last half of the season. He can be a bulldozer early on for them and probably fade away in the 2nd half, but more likely they will platoon him to keep him fresh into the late stages of the season.
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DM83
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« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2018, 07:19:50 PM »

Hypocrites!  If the Bimners had him we would be unstoppable on Offense.  He and Harris.  What a dream. Plus fresh back even play one out of the slot and terrorize the DB who had to cover either..

Both backs are at the end of their careers.  Thirty plus year old running backs need TLC, and certainly not Winnipeg did to Harris.  He needs less time taking shots.

Managing the minutes, is key for the post season.  I want fresh legs, not some burned out shell at that time of the year.
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dd
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« Reply #70 on: April 08, 2018, 08:41:22 PM »

I think that?s why we signed Lafrance- to give Harris a breather and still keep moving the ball. Harris or any back for that matter, can?t keep taking the repeated pounding and continue on as if nothing happened. Harris does get alot of touches as the check down receiver but he still gets his fair share of shots. Being over 30, he s nearing the end of his great career too, so all the more to manage his minutes even more wisely.
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