Blue Bombers Forum
April 23, 2018, 02:32:00 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14
  Print  
Author Topic: No Muamba or Mulumba  (Read 6322 times)
Sir Blue and Gold
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 19487



« Reply #180 on: April 13, 2018, 07:05:21 PM »

Lincoln, Walters wasn't 'out bid' for Muamba, (I'm sure that this won't be popular but that never stopped me before...), we low balled Muamba... I'm not sure why it took him so long to accept the gig in Montreal, unless, he thought that we would for sure come back with a counter offer....

let's think about this... 5 minutes into free agency we're offering a 4th or 5th option receiver $150,000, hoping that he will one day play a complete season and fulfill the potential that the majority thinks is there... and all we can offer a proven MLB, a Canadian no less, at a position we need to address, only $170,000?Huh Does that sound like a legit fair market value for a 'ratio busting' national proven middle linebacker?  $150,000 to a guy who will play behind Adams, Dressler, Bowman, Harris... and $170,000 for a much needed linebacker who has proven capable and supports the ratio as well....

more like window dressing... we really didn't intend on landing Henoc... we low balled him knowing that the fans would get fed up with him doing his 'tour of Canada' while he was awaiting a serious offer, however, after the fans were fed up we announce that we're doing to 'stick to our guns' and not get in a bidding war for his services... Fans support management, approve of standing on principle and he signs in Montreal...

we've been duped... Walters made it clear early on that his plan was to go 6 starters on offense and use what he had in the cupboard to address MLB...

and while we can say that LaFrance is Normands replacement, not Flanders, it's not true... Normand didn't back up Harris, Flanders did, but now because of the ratio Flanders won't be able to, so, LaFrance gets the nod...  a few short months ago I was repeatedly being told, and deservedly so, that I didn't understand the CFL and how it works... I'm starting to think others may be the ones that don't get it...

To be fair, even if this is the case, Henoc Muamba wasn't available when we were coming up with our off-season plan and we probably offered what we thought he was worth and what we could afford after the fact. Walters isn't the kind of GM to release a big contract he just signed because another shiny bobble came along. I think in the long run that's a positive. Muamba has been released twice out of his last two big contracts. Two teams concluded he wasn't worth the big contracts they signed him to. The Bombers opted not to sign him to the big contract. O'Shea is also very cautious about what personalities they sign up and there may possibly have been some concerns there. We did our due diligence on Muamba. We took him out for dinner and offered him a contract we felt was appropriate and probably one that would have been sustainable over the medium term. Ultimately he signed with a team that paid him more. We haven't been 'duped' at all.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 07:07:06 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
TBURGESS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6192



« Reply #181 on: April 13, 2018, 07:59:55 PM »

Welcome to the dark side Chevelle.  Grin
Logged

Being right never gets old.
66 Chevelle
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1498


« Reply #182 on: April 13, 2018, 08:28:29 PM »

To be fair, even if this is the case, Henoc Muamba wasn't available when we were coming up with our off-season plan and we probably offered what we thought he was worth and what we could afford after the fact. Walters isn't the kind of GM to release a big contract he just signed because another shiny bobble came along. I think in the long run that's a positive. Muamba has been released twice out of his last two big contracts. Two teams concluded he wasn't worth the big contracts they signed him to. The Bombers opted not to sign him to the big contract. O'Shea is also very cautious about what personalities they sign up and there may possibly have been some concerns there. We did our due diligence on Muamba. We took him out for dinner and offered him a contract we felt was appropriate and probably one that would have been sustainable over the medium term. Ultimately he signed with a team that paid him more. We haven't been 'duped' at all.

this is true... but on the other hand, our need for a legit starting MLB didn't become greater or less when Henoc became available... I was under the impression that we were actively considering available options for a MLB at that time so I would hardly call it a 'shiny bobble' as we were already shopping for a MLB...  additionally, I consider Demski a 'want' and a MLB a 'need', yet we addressed 'wants' before we addressed 'needs'... also, 'big' is a relative term... I don't consider $170,000 for a skilled position and Canadian a 'big' contract... and when I go shopping I consider the cost of item based upon whether I need it or if I want it and it's associated 'value', the threshold for needed items is a lot higher than wanted items...

but, at the end of the day, $170,000 doesn't say 'hey, we'd love to have you on our team'... and even if Henoc has been released before, we have a need and I find it hard to believe that he would only be worth $20,000 more to the team than a 4th option receiver, which we didn't seem to have an issue at all with giving one of those 'big' contracts... but let me ask you this, do you believe that $170,000 is a fair offer for a player such as Henoc?
Logged

just because you can doesn't mean you should...
gbill2004
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 13222



« Reply #183 on: April 13, 2018, 09:00:25 PM »

this is true... but on the other hand, our need for a legit starting MLB didn't become greater or less when Henoc became available... I was under the impression that we were actively considering available options for a MLB at that time so I would hardly call it a 'shiny bobble' as we were already shopping for a MLB...  additionally, I consider Demski a 'want' and a MLB a 'need', yet we addressed 'wants' before we addressed 'needs'... also, 'big' is a relative term... I don't consider $170,000 for a skilled position and Canadian a 'big' contract... and when I go shopping I consider the cost of item based upon whether I need it or if I want it and it's associated 'value', the threshold for needed items is a lot higher than wanted items...

but, at the end of the day, $170,000 doesn't say 'hey, we'd love to have you on our team'... and even if Henoc has been released before, we have a need and I find it hard to believe that he would only be worth $20,000 more to the team than a 4th option receiver, which we didn't seem to have an issue at all with giving one of those 'big' contracts... but let me ask you this, do you believe that $170,000 is a fair offer for a player such as Henoc?
$170k plus playoff bonuses he will get with us and not with Montreal make the offers very similar.  Plus he'd get a winning environment here with the Bombers, where with Montreal he'll be lucky to win 3-4 games.   
Logged
the paw
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2988


« Reply #184 on: April 13, 2018, 10:06:37 PM »

this is true... but on the other hand, our need for a legit starting MLB didn't become greater or less when Henoc became available... I was under the impression that we were actively considering available options for a MLB at that time so I would hardly call it a 'shiny bobble' as we were already shopping for a MLB...  additionally, I consider Demski a 'want' and a MLB a 'need', yet we addressed 'wants' before we addressed 'needs'... also, 'big' is a relative term... I don't consider $170,000 for a skilled position and Canadian a 'big' contract... and when I go shopping I consider the cost of item based upon whether I need it or if I want it and it's associated 'value', the threshold for needed items is a lot higher than wanted items...

but, at the end of the day, $170,000 doesn't say 'hey, we'd love to have you on our team'... and even if Henoc has been released before, we have a need and I find it hard to believe that he would only be worth $20,000 more to the team than a 4th option receiver, which we didn't seem to have an issue at all with giving one of those 'big' contracts... but let me ask you this, do you believe that $170,000 is a fair offer for a player such as Henoc?

You talk like missing out on Henoc means we will play without a MLB at all this year.  There is no ironclad ?need? to have a Canadian at that position.  It wasn?t our biggest issue on defence last year, and Santos Knox will be an improvement over last year, so it?s not like we are regressing.

$170k is on the low end of the ?fair? range for Henoc, for sure.  But with Andrew Harris at $195k, Muamba ceiling would have been $190k in the best case scenario.  In terms of the comparison to Demski, I thought we paid a bit of a hometown premium for him.  But he will sell some tickets, and I think he?s going to get lots of touches.  I am projecting an 800 yd season for him. 

I am surprised we weighted our ratio so heavily to the offence, but the fact that we have done so doesn?t diminish Demskis value as a starter.
Logged

grab grass 'n growl
TecnoGenius
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 872


« Reply #185 on: April 13, 2018, 10:16:43 PM »

I wonder if we will see a lot more of Briggs this year subbing for Wild at WIL to help out with the ratio, he played a fair amount last year in passing situations and may have earned a bigger role this year.  Unless Branning or Conteh have taken a large leap WIL seems to be the logical place to plug in another Canuck when needed.

Me too.  The Briggs/Wild in for Hurl/? throwing-down sub last year was interesting to watch.  I think Briggs is improving, and I dearly dream that Wild can return to '14-'15 form.  If Briggs/Wild have more of a role, perhaps that also gets Miles (NAT) in for some downs on D.

I think a lot hinges on how JSK handles MLB.  I think he's ready for prime time and will surprise the doubters.  BB aren't looking too bad with a JSK/Legget/Wild/Briggs/Miles LB corps, especially if they all step up their game (and stay uninjured, ehem, Wild, cough cough).
Logged
66 Chevelle
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1498


« Reply #186 on: April 14, 2018, 12:27:10 AM »

You talk like missing out on Henoc means we will play without a MLB at all this year.  There is no ironclad ?need? to have a Canadian at that position.  It wasn?t our biggest issue on defence last year, and Santos Knox will be an improvement over last year, so it?s not like we are regressing.

$170k is on the low end of the ?fair? range for Henoc, for sure.  But with Andrew Harris at $195k, Muamba ceiling would have been $190k in the best case scenario.  In terms of the comparison to Demski, I thought we paid a bit of a hometown premium for him.  But he will sell some tickets, and I think he?s going to get lots of touches.  I am projecting an 800 yd season for him. 

I am surprised we weighted our ratio so heavily to the offence, but the fact that we have done so doesn?t diminish Demskis value as a starter.

come'on paw, lol, I'm pretty sure that most everyone here was under the impression that after last year that Hurl would be gone and we planned to address the MLB via free agency, as well as other defensive short comings... Henoc being Canadian was just a bonus, I realize that this is no need to have any specific position labeled as a national tion. But with Henoc we could kill two birds with one stone...  At that point, I don't care if you start 8 nationals if MOS chooses too, but having that second defensive national starter increased our ratio flexibility significantly if need be.

As far as Demski is concerned, I have no problem with him, other than it seems that we didn't have an issue with over paying him as a want while still not addressing a need. And we may be alright with Santos-Knox at MLB, I like him and think hes a baller, but it's a gamble. In this day and age of 1 year contracts, who knows what the Bombers will look like next year. Addressing the MLB with a Muamba, Reed, Woods, Dean and we have a legit GC contender this year... and throw in the ratio problems we could be faced with moving forward if someone gets injured....  just don't want to squander what may be our best opportunity to end that drought...

I'm sure you've done the math... we're bringing in all of these receivers but what are we going to do with them? Park them on the PR? There is no room on the AR to carry multiple receivers, so, it will take multiple games for any of them to come up and play with any significance... What do we do if Harris goes down for a game or two? LaFrance? he has 400 yards over 3 years... As it stands now we're trying to figure out how to keep Flanders on the AR, even though it's virtually impossible to get him on the field if we do...
Logged

just because you can doesn't mean you should...
the paw
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2988


« Reply #187 on: April 14, 2018, 02:46:42 AM »



I'm sure you've done the math... we're bringing in all of these receivers but what are we going to do with them? Park them on the PR? There is no room on the AR to carry multiple receivers, so, it will take multiple games for any of them to come up and play with any significance... What do we do if Harris goes down for a game or two? LaFrance? he has 400 yards over 3 years... As it stands now we're trying to figure out how to keep Flanders on the AR, even though it's virtually impossible to get him on the field if we do...

I think the influx of receivers is to develop guys to step in when Dressler, Adams and Bowman get dinged.  All of them have a history of getting dinged, and two of them are pretty old.  I think they are also trying to develop talent for 2019, as it is open question whether Bowman and Dressler will be here by then.

As far as backing up Harris, they will probably not keep Flanders on the AR, but on the 2 man reserve.  If Harris goes down (and he is pretty durable), LaFrance is good enough to grind out the rest of the game, and they would activate Flanders for the next game.  I like Flanders, but I am certainly not building my roster around saving him a DI spot.
Logged

grab grass 'n growl
buckzumhoff
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1964


« Reply #188 on: April 14, 2018, 12:21:38 PM »

They will find a good middle linebacker. They cant play Hurl since he is with Saskatchewan . They stuck with Hurl no matter what and they couldn't see anybody else at that position. They brought in a lot of players and cut them and took Hurl because he was Canadian. Now they might have to play an American at that position which should be a lot better ,Muamba wasnt the best middle linebacker. He couldn't get to the quarterback or stop the run. He used to drop back or sit back and never came up to the line of scrimmage. Give the money to sign Flanders since they have more Canadians on offensive line and they will be using 2 Canadian receivers all the time.
Logged
DM83
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5699


« Reply #189 on: April 14, 2018, 12:50:30 PM »

In hindsight, Walters hasn't done a good job in adding new pieces that we need.
Durant is done.  Maybe as a backup play a few games if needed ...ok.....for a,reasonable amount. Sure.

Bowman Huh I hope isn't done.  He looked done last year in Edm.
Demski ?  Sure u of M Bison perfect.  Not for $170,000.00. Is that what we think he is getting?

The other. Guy? He had one good game in Ottawa in the rain  or snow.  He did zilch in Regina.  There are hundreds of Canadian football players out there not on a roster, as good as he is.

Defenders?  Who are they?  A fee agent DB who is supposed to be good.,and two BC lions cuts as DBS Huh Oh yeah?

We lost Heath and Westerman And Bond.  Their replacements are Definitly underwhelming.
IF the new signees play above what they have  shown, last year, then ok.  However,......the replacements for those we have lost, don't equate to performing at the same level.

Finally, our receiving Corp is underwhelming.  Dressler is interested in surviving.  Bowman is crippled, Adams will get hurt by August, Demski has never played as a starter for more than three games, and that leaves Coates, who is in the prime of his career,,as the fifth or sixth option.  Does this mean we are satisfied.  I am not.  This still is the worst receiver Corp in the league.  Ten years ago, maybe. Good.  Now?Huh I don't think they scare anyone.

Boys and girls!!! No middle linebacker, loss of nest pass rusher and best DB,,coupled with a decrepit receiving Corp.....equals........not a playoff appearance.

Walters hasn't got it done.  Zero new talent! Retreads yes. New stars? Nope!
Logged
TBURGESS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6192



« Reply #190 on: April 14, 2018, 01:32:58 PM »

... Walters hasn't got it done.  Zero new talent! Retreads yes. New stars? Nope!
We won't know about new talent or new stars until TC is over or even later.
Logged

Being right never gets old.
Doublezero
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 591



« Reply #191 on: April 14, 2018, 02:45:44 PM »

The 3 year term for Muamba is interesting. Gives him a chance to settle in with the Als and be a team-mate for once. Probably he was looking for that kind of "security" - if such a thing exists in the CFL. I did not want Muamba here because he strikes me as a "me first" kind of player and therefore maybe not such a great character fit for us. But then, you kind of have to be "me first" when you're playing under those 1+1 deals all the time.
Logged

Just gimme the rock.
bigbuff33
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 436


« Reply #192 on: April 14, 2018, 02:51:27 PM »

I agree about Muamba...didn't want him here...too selfish...

BUT...we've signed a lot of receivers and db's....how about if we sign some linebackers...a MLB...
Logged
Blue72
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 741


« Reply #193 on: April 14, 2018, 03:01:58 PM »

Will our HC and his assistance give the rookies an equal chance at cracking the line up or will they stick with the vets until they get hurt and than put the rookies in? Dressler/Bowman are good but getting up there in age and have been hurt the last couple of years so if a rookie is close to equal to them will MOS make the move or will he want the experience at that position a cut a younger and maybe up and coming player?
As for LB, if they put in JSK as a MLB and he goes down than what are our options, Wild, or Miles as the rest of our LB don't play that position plus most of the other LB we have our just ST and maybe just backups. Nobody has stepped up to prove they  are starting material yet. Maybe they might give Rush a chance at LB to see if he is wearth keeping? We don't know what Kyle Wilson or Javis Jones brings to the team yet as we had so many LB in camp but never lasted.
Walters has brought in a lot of rookies and Vets at rec and DB but nothing for MLB/LB with any experience.
Logged
Blue In BC
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 18661


« Reply #194 on: April 14, 2018, 04:05:16 PM »

Will our HC and his assistance give the rookies an equal chance at cracking the line up or will they stick with the vets until they get hurt and than put the rookies in? Dressler/Bowman are good but getting up there in age and have been hurt the last couple of years so if a rookie is close to equal to them will MOS make the move or will he want the experience at that position a cut a younger and maybe up and coming player?
As for LB, if they put in JSK as a MLB and he goes down than what are our options, Wild, or Miles as the rest of our LB don't play that position plus most of the other LB we have our just ST and maybe just backups. Nobody has stepped up to prove they  are starting material yet. Maybe they might give Rush a chance at LB to see if he is wearth keeping? We don't know what Kyle Wilson or Javis Jones brings to the team yet as we had so many LB in camp but never lasted.
Walters has brought in a lot of rookies and Vets at rec and DB but nothing for MLB/LB with any experience.


IMO there is zero chance a rookie beats out Bowman or Dressler to start the season. I'd suggest a rookie never gets an equal chance per se to beat out a starter in TC. Unless SMS comes into play and said vet was a mid level player that had a down season prior, it's not going to happen. Both Bowman and Dressler likely got signing bonus's.

Rookies win starters roles if they make the roster on ST's and see playing time or when there is an injury for the most part.

One of Wilson or Jones might make the team as a DI although since both were here for part of last year they might be in the actual competition to start.

That said it seems almost written in stone that JSK and Wild start.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 04:06:51 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

No more excuses.
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!