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Author Topic: Walters interested in Muamba  (Read 51881 times)
GCn18
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« Reply #660 on: March 13, 2018, 06:07:22 PM »

Finding a MLB that might actually be better than Muamba for considerably less might be as viable an option, though.  There is a reason why we have 100% Int QB's, and MLB is *almost* as important a position as QB.  They are game changers, and hence, having a much larger pool to choose from makes sense.

The reason why QBs are IMPs are because there are no NAT QBs that are even remotely close to as good as the IMPs, and secondly QBs don't count towards the ratio

Putting your ratio into a ratio busting spot opens you up to problems when that player goes down.  Unlike QB's, MLB's are beat up a lot more, and are more likely to need an in game replacement and more so, someone to start if/when they are injured.

Putting your ratio into ratio busting spots does not open you up to any more problems than anywhere else. You do not have to replace a NAT MLBer with a NAT MLBer. You just have to replace an IMP with a NAT. The exact same problem would come about if a NAT OL went down.

It is great to find a talent that is a game changer with the proper passport.  But there is a reason why every team plays 3 Nat hoggies and a #5 WR as more than half their ratio.  Because those players are cheap and plentiful.

There is nothing cheap about NAT OL, nor are good NAT receivers plentiful 

I get trying to push for that cup by having a ratio breaker at MLB.  The question is, barring passport, is he the best MLB?  Would signing Reed or Woods has made the team better, cheaper?  Is JSK going to be as good as Muamba at a fraction of the cost?  Do we have players currently under contract that can cover our ratio?  If Muamba signs elsewhere, does Thomas become an option for ratio balancing?

The question isn't whether he is the best MLB barring passport, the question is whether having him and the ability to get Flanders on the field is worth it. You're not just signing Henoc the MLBer (although he is one of the top MLBers in the CFL) you are also putting Flanders on the field or another IMP receiver in place of Coates. You don't get one player when you sign Henoc...you get two...and that's what you're failing to understand.

Muamba is a quick, easy fix, but might be a dangerous play, and expensive.  So I'm good trusting these guys whichever they decide.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #661 on: March 13, 2018, 06:14:18 PM »

The problem with these questions is that they are questions.

Signing Muamba gives you a guaranteed, bonafide starting MLB. No risk above the usual risk you take with any player, and that includes injury. My thoughts are that even if JSK went down, Miles would get on the field as an backup so it wouldn't cause a catastrophe for in-game ratio.

But finding another MLB to replace JSK  long term without having to face a ratio concern is a lot easier and cheaper than replacing a Nat MLB.  Miles will be the in game replacement for either,  just like most positions on the field, your in game backup is a Nat, and usually a Nat getting paid near minimum.

JSK played well last year, and might have a bigger upside than Henoc.  We've seen his top, and its pretty good.  But its not better than most MLB's out there, and he's not even the best Nat MLB.  He's good, but not highest paid MLB good.  His biggest advantage right now is that he is available for no asset cost other than cash.  And that makes him more attractive in our current situation.  But I do not think that adding HM will be as big a benefit as the cost to do so will be.  Especially if it means dropping Okpaluago.  Or Dressler.  

Muamba is better than Reed.  Muamba is comparable to Bear Woods, but IMHO, more durable.  We don't know if Santos-Knox is effective at MLB, much less better than Muamba. 

If Muamba doesn't sign, I imagine we will sign a cheaper import LB to play behind Wild and JSK, and make up the ratio by starting Coates. 

I think you need to reconcile yourself to the fact that it is very unlikely Thomas will be re-signed.  He certainly won't be re-signed in lieu of Muamba, the club is invested in Ekakitie at this point. 

Thomas would not be in lieu of Muamba, and definitely not to start in front of Ekakitie.  But he gives added ratio depth in that you can rotate him, Ekakitie and Corney with confidence.  Which gives you 2 Nat spots on D, meaning a 3 nat Oline, 1 WR and 1 RB is sufficient on the O side.  Rotating Ekakitie and Corney alone could work, but the three are a better mix.

Jevaris Jones and Kyrie Wilson are already on the roster, there might be more coming to mini or main camp as well.  Regardless who we sign and who starts, we will have INT LB depth players on the roster.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #662 on: March 13, 2018, 06:16:17 PM »

But finding another MLB to replace JSK  long term without having to face a ratio concern is a lot easier and cheaper than replacing a Nat MLB.  Miles will be the in game replacement for either,  just like most positions on the field, your in game backup is a Nat, and usually a Nat getting paid near minimum.

JSK played well last year, and might have a bigger upside than Henoc.  We've seen his top, and its pretty good.  But its not better than most MLB's out there, and he's not even the best Nat MLB.  He's good, but not highest paid MLB good.  His biggest advantage right now is that he is available for no asset cost other than cash.  And that makes him more attractive in our current situation.  But I do not think that adding HM will be as big a benefit as the cost to do so will be.  Especially if it means dropping Okpaluago.  Or Dressler.  

Thomas would not be in lieu of Muamba, and definitely not to start in front of Ekakitie.  But he gives added ratio depth in that you can rotate him, Ekakitie and Corney with confidence.  Which gives you 2 Nat spots on D, meaning a 3 nat Oline, 1 WR and 1 RB is sufficient on the O side.  Rotating Ekakitie and Corney alone could work, but the three are a better mix.

Jevaris Jones and Kyrie Wilson are already on the roster, there might be more coming to mini or main camp as well.  Regardless who we sign and who starts, we will have INT LB depth players on the roster.

Cash + other player(s) that may need to be released in order to accommodate his expected salary.  That player could be Okpalaugo, which is a significant cost. 
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #663 on: March 13, 2018, 07:06:26 PM »

But finding another MLB to replace JSK  long term without having to face a ratio concern is a lot easier and cheaper than replacing a Nat MLB.  Miles will be the in game replacement for either,  just like most positions on the field, your in game backup is a Nat, and usually a Nat getting paid near minimum.

JSK played well last year, and might have a bigger upside than Henoc.  We've seen his top, and its pretty good.  But its not better than most MLB's out there, and he's not even the best Nat MLB.  He's good, but not highest paid MLB good.  His biggest advantage right now is that he is available for no asset cost other than cash.  And that makes him more attractive in our current situation.  But I do not think that adding HM will be as big a benefit as the cost to do so will be.  Especially if it means dropping Okpaluago.  Or Dressler.  


If Muamba were to go down we could just replace him with Coates, which is better than committing to starting Coates full time.

I think you're underselling Muamba here. I'm not even sure we've seen his ceiling: we've seen an incredible trajectory when he was a Bomber, followed by a period of absence, followed by a period of resurrection, surging to a peak near the end of his season. That means he may still improve. The only reason you can't say he's the best Nat MLB is because Singleton is essentially a generational player for a Canadian at that position. Muamba could be right up there.

For me, the known-quantity (with potential yet) + passport and all that entails (another import receiver/Flanders) is a greater value than a cheap American who might be good enough or as good, and will get on the field no matter what in a position he's proven himself at (JSK @ WIL)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 07:08:05 PM by blue_or_die » Logged

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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #664 on: March 13, 2018, 07:13:21 PM »

JSK played well last year, and might have a bigger upside than Henoc.  We've seen his top, and its pretty good.  But its not better than most MLB's out there, and he's not even the best Nat MLB.  He's good, but not highest paid MLB good.  His biggest advantage right now is that he is available for no asset cost other than cash.

Those are some pretty silly comments. For one, Santos-Knox played predominantly at WIL last season, so why even compare him to Muamba at this point? Second, Muamba is a proven commodity with ample experience, hence the potential earnings he could get. And third, he's easily top 2 as far as NAT LBs go. That's his biggest advantage: he's an excellent ratio breaking player at the top of his class.

If Muamba were to go down we could just replace him with Coates, which is better than committing to starting Coates full time.

I think you're underselling Muamba here. I'm not even sure we've seen his ceiling: we've seen an incredible trajectory when he was a Bomber, followed by a period of absence, followed by a period of resurrection, surging to a peak near the end of his season. That means he may still improve. The only reason you can't say he's the best Nat MLB is because Singleton is essentially a generational player for a Canadian at that position. Muamba could be right up there.

For me, the known-quantity (with potential yet) + passport and all that entails (another import receiver/Flanders) is a greater value than a cheap American who might be good enough or as good, and will get on the field no matter what in a position he's proven himself at (JSK @ WIL)

Well said.

And of course he is. That's been a part of his narrative in this thread all along.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #665 on: March 13, 2018, 07:23:00 PM »

I think Neufled would be the odd man out for me. Go back to 3 Int. on the O line. HM goes down you could go back to 3 Nat. on the O line. I don't know if Neufled can play a full season.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #666 on: March 13, 2018, 07:33:08 PM »

I think Neufled would be the odd man out for me. Go back to 3 Int. on the O line. HM goes down you could go back to 3 Nat. on the O line. I don't know if Neufled can play a full season.
That?s why Spooner and Couture are on the team.
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DM83
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« Reply #667 on: March 14, 2018, 12:15:55 AM »

This is nauseating.
Simply ..you cut Durant....if there is a salary problem.
Now we are talking if Muamba. Gets hurt?!the guy isn't even in town

This lack of a signing is getting stupid.
Walters sign Bear Woods and let's move on.
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fansince79
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« Reply #668 on: March 14, 2018, 12:48:20 AM »

This is nauseating.
Simply ..you cut Durant....if there is a salary problem.
Now we are talking if Muamba. Gets hurt?!the guy isn't even in town

This lack of a signing is getting stupid.
Walters sign Bear Woods and let's move on.



Woods re-signed with the Argos last month.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #669 on: March 14, 2018, 12:48:47 AM »

This is nauseating.
Simply ..you cut Durant....if there is a salary problem.
Now we are talking if Muamba. Gets hurt?!the guy isn't even in town

This lack of a signing is getting stupid.
Walters sign Bear Woods and let's move on.


Woods is back with the Argos.
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blue_gold_84
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Fort Hew


« Reply #670 on: March 14, 2018, 01:13:35 AM »

Walters sign Bear Woods and let's move on.

He re-signed in Toronto nearly a month ago: https://www.cfl.ca/2018/02/20/argos-ink-bear-woods-2018/
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dd
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« Reply #671 on: March 14, 2018, 01:44:41 AM »

If Muamba were to go down we could just replace him with Coates, which is better than committing to starting Coates full time.

I think you're underselling Muamba here. I'm not even sure we've seen his ceiling: we've seen an incredible trajectory when he was a Bomber, followed by a period of absence, followed by a period of resurrection, surging to a peak near the end of his season. That means he may still improve. The only reason you can't say he's the best Nat MLB is because Singleton is essentially a generational player for a Canadian at that position. Muamba could be right up there.

For me, the known-quantity (with potential yet) + passport and all that entails (another import receiver/Flanders) is a greater value than a cheap American who might be good enough or as good, and will get on the field no matter what in a position he's proven himself at (JSK @ WIL)
this makes total sense, so why isn't it happening??
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bunker
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« Reply #672 on: March 14, 2018, 02:06:00 AM »

this makes total sense, so why isn't it happening??
I think because Walters is prepared to pay Bombers version of Westerman money (190,000), and Muamba wants Alouette's version of Westerman money (218,000 plus performance bonuses). At some point, overpaying too much starts to hurt your roster. Where that point is is a judgement call.   
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GCn18
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« Reply #673 on: March 14, 2018, 11:01:29 AM »

I think because Walters is prepared to pay Bombers version of Westerman money (190,000), and Muamba wants Alouette's version of Westerman money (218,000 plus performance bonuses). At some point, overpaying too much starts to hurt your roster. Where that point is is a judgement call.   

For sure. There is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that the Bombers really want Muamba. Now it's a numbers game of how to make it happen.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #674 on: March 14, 2018, 03:18:14 PM »

This is nauseating.
Simply ..you cut Durant....if there is a salary problem.
Now we are talking if Muamba. Gets hurt?!the guy isn't even in town

This lack of a signing is getting stupid.
Walters sign Bear Woods and let's move on.


Cut Durant? That's one of the worst options I've read in this string topic.
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