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Author Topic: Walters interested in Muamba  (Read 44192 times)
Tehedra
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« Reply #645 on: March 13, 2018, 03:52:01 AM »

I agree with the quote about the MLB, but is he implying that Henoc is the only player capable of filling this role?  I honestly want to see what Santos Knox has to offer because I feel that he might be able to step up as well.  I wouldn't be disappointed to have Henoc on the team but i wouldn't break the bank especially since we already have some high paid ratio breakers on our team. 
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #646 on: March 13, 2018, 05:08:42 AM »

Who was the last CFL all star non import Middle Linebacker before Muamba?   If there were any I couldn?t name them....
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the paw
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« Reply #647 on: March 13, 2018, 09:53:51 AM »

Who was the last CFL all star non import Middle Linebacker before Muamba?   If there were any I couldn?t name them....

Shea Emery, 2012
Mike o?shea 1999

Jason Pottinger wasn?t an all star, but he was pretty good.  Kevin Eiben was an all star 3 Times, but he was mostly a WIL.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 10:07:39 AM by the paw » Logged

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GCn17
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« Reply #648 on: March 13, 2018, 11:33:51 AM »

I agree with the quote about the MLB, but is he implying that Henoc is the only player capable of filling this role?  I honestly want to see what Santos Knox has to offer because I feel that he might be able to step up as well.  I wouldn't be disappointed to have Henoc on the team but i wouldn't break the bank especially since we already have some high paid ratio breakers on our team. 

Like who?
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #649 on: March 13, 2018, 02:35:22 PM »

Shea Emery, 2012
Mike o?shea 1999

Jason Pottinger wasn?t an all star, but he was pretty good.  Kevin Eiben was an all star 3 Times, but he was mostly a WIL.


Thanks....MOS was for sure and he was the first Canadian defensive player to ever record over 1000 tackles.   I had forgotten about Emery thinking he was an import......so that?s only two players who were Canadian all star MLBers and that?s why HM is a hot ticket item.   There may be import MLBs out there who can do the job but Canadian MLBers are scarce as hens teeth.   If we get him we change the ratio and dynamics of this team.....without someone back there who can stop the run and cover the pass our defence will again be suspect....not something you can win a Grey Cup with.  Doug Browns article captures this and explains it very clearly.
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" Leo Lewis was the best player I ever coached, on either side of the border"!

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the paw
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« Reply #650 on: March 13, 2018, 03:04:56 PM »

Thanks....MOS was for sure and he was the first Canadian defensive player to ever record over 1000 tackles.   I had forgotten about Emery thinking he was an import......so that?s only two players who were Canadian all star MLBers and that?s why HM is a hot ticket item.   There may be import MLBs out there who can do the job but Canadian MLBers are scarce as hens teeth.   If we get him we change the ratio and dynamics of this team.....without someone back there who can stop the run and cover the pass our defence will again be suspect....not something you can win a Grey Cup with.  Doug Browns article captures this and explains it very clearly.

At any given time, there are usually 2-3 high quality Canadian linebackers starting throughout the league.  At present, I would count Singleton, Muamba and probably Konar in that category.  There are also a number of "swingmen" who can start in the box or as a safety, like Ackie, Pruneau or Brouilette.   

But definitely, your point remains, Muamba is a valuable commodity. 
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the paw
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« Reply #651 on: March 13, 2018, 03:07:53 PM »

Like who?

Definitely Harris.  Loffler is a ratio-breaker, but I don't know how highly paid he is at this point, I don't recall if we have extended him yet or not.  I would say we are paying Demski like he is a ratio-breaker.   If memory serves he is getting $150k plus a $30k signing bonus, which is significant. 

None of which is to say we shouldn't sign Muamba, just that finding the money won't be a cinch. 
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #652 on: March 13, 2018, 03:17:35 PM »

Definitely Harris.  Loffler is a ratio-breaker, but I don't know how highly paid he is at this point, I don't recall if we have extended him yet or not.  I would say we are paying Demski like he is a ratio-breaker.   If memory serves he is getting $150k plus a $30k signing bonus, which is significant. 

None of which is to say we shouldn't sign Muamba, just that finding the money won't be a cinch. 
One thing is certain....we have accumulated a lot more Canadian talent than we have in the past....which is one reason for our success of late.   Walters and MOS have been the architects of this team and hopefully they and all of Winnipeg?s fandom are rewarded with a Grey Cup....because that?s what it?s all about!
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GCn17
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« Reply #653 on: March 13, 2018, 03:42:24 PM »

Definitely Harris.  Loffler is a ratio-breaker, but I don't know how highly paid he is at this point, I don't recall if we have extended him yet or not.  I would say we are paying Demski like he is a ratio-breaker.   If memory serves he is getting $150k plus a $30k signing bonus, which is significant. 

None of which is to say we shouldn't sign Muamba, just that finding the money won't be a cinch. 

I'll give you Harris, but Loffler is not paid highly on his rookie deal and Demski is 150 all in, that includes his signing bonus. Not low pay but certainly not a ton for a NAT starter. Essentially we have Goosen, Loffler, and Matt Coates as NAT starters that are on extremely cap friendly contracts. When 50% of your NAT starters are making below average comparatively to their NAT colleagues at their position I think it's pretty tough to suggest we can't designate some extra to the other NAT starters. If starting NAT scrubs like Coates doesn't allow us to have more than one NAT ratio breaker then I would have to wonder if Walters is properly managing the SMS. NAT is where the good teams spend and then they sort out whatever SMS relief they might need in their IMPs and through good recruiting down South.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 03:46:41 PM by GCn17 » Logged

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booch
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« Reply #654 on: March 13, 2018, 03:54:24 PM »

when you look at it right now we have on National starter making premium coin...and 2 (Neufeld/Demski) sitting in the par for the course zone salary wise for good Canadian starter..Chugh...Goosen..Loffler..Coates are at ends of entry level/second year extended contracts so aren't a big cap hit as far as a National starter goes...so yeah we should have the money to pay for a Canadian ratio altering player...without sacrificing much talent elsewhere...beit American or Canadian
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the paw
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« Reply #655 on: March 13, 2018, 04:04:18 PM »

I'll give you Harris, but Loffler is not paid highly on his rookie deal and Demski is 150 all in, that includes his signing bonus. Not low pay but certainly not a ton for a NAT starter. Essentially we have Goosen, Loffler, and Matt Coates as NAT starters that are on extremely cap friendly contracts. When 50% of your NAT starters are making below average comparatively to their NAT colleagues at their position I think it's pretty tough to suggest we can't designate some extra to the other NAT starters. If starting NAT scrubs like Coates doesn't allow us to have more than one NAT ratio breaker then I would have to wonder if Walters is properly managing the SMS. NAT is where the good teams spend and then they sort out whatever SMS relief they might need in their IMPs and through good recruiting down South.

I'm not disagreeing with your general point, but would point out the following:

1.  The Dunk article on Demski's contract isn't 100% clear on whether the signing bonus is included in the $150k, but even assuming it is, that is still a little above average for a Cdn starter. 

2.  Goosen was already extended once, so he isn't cheap anymore.  He extended after year 2 of his first 3 year deal, so I wouldn't say he is making top dollar, but I wouldn't call it cap friendly at this point.

3.  Signing Muamba probably takes Coates out of the starting equation.  That would leave us where Neufeld, Chung and Goosen probably make "average" coin, Muamba, Harris and Demski make "above average" money, and Loffler would still be deal.

I still maintain that signing Muamba means someone has to go, but its probably an import.  And we better win it, because Harris, Chung, Demski, Goosen and Loffler all come up for new contracts at the end of the year.    Shocked
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 04:56:38 PM by the paw » Logged

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GCn17
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« Reply #656 on: March 13, 2018, 04:58:35 PM »

I'm not disagreeing with your general point, but would point out the following:

1.  The Dunk article on Demski's contract isn't 100% clear on whether the signing bonus is included in the $150k, but even assuming it is, that is still a little above average for a Cdn starter. 

2.  Goosen was already extended once, so he isn't cheap anymore.  He extended after year 2 of his first 3 year deal, so I wouldn't say he is making top dollar, but I wouldn't call it cap friendly at this point.

3.  Signing Muamba probably takes Coates out of the starting equation.  That would leave us where Neufeld, Chung and Goosen probably make "average" coin, Muamba, Harris and Demski make "above average" money, and Loffler would still be deal.

I still maintain that signing Muamba means someone has to go, but its probably an import.  And we better win it, because Harris, Chung, Demski, Goosen and Loffler all come up for new contracts at the end of the year.    Shocked

Other sources have it at 150k total. Jeff Hamilton I think? Just saying that Demski is making roughly what Hurl did last year and we haven't really added any NAT contracts other than Demski but we have subtracted a pretty substantial one in Westerman. I don't know if we have the SMS room for Muamba or not, but if we don't then Walters is mismanaging the SMS imo.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 05:00:57 PM by GCn17 » Logged

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theaardvark
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« Reply #657 on: March 13, 2018, 05:45:24 PM »

Finding a MLB that might actually be better than Muamba for considerably less might be as viable an option, though.  There is a reason why we have 100% Int QB's, and MLB is *almost* as important a position as QB.  They are game changers, and hence, having a much larger pool to choose from makes sense.

Putting your ratio into a ratio busting spot opens you up to problems when that player goes down.  Unlike QB's, MLB's are beat up a lot more, and are more likely to need an in game replacement and more so, someone to start if/when they are injured.

It is great to find a talent that is a game changer with the proper passport.  But there is a reason why every team plays 3 Nat hoggies and a #5 WR as more than half their ratio.  Because those players are cheap and plentiful.  

I get trying to push for that cup by having a ratio breaker at MLB.  The question is, barring passport, is he the best MLB?  Would signing Reed or Woods has made the team better, cheaper?  Is JSK going to be as good as Muamba at a fraction of the cost?  Do we have players currently under contract that can cover our ratio?  If Muamba signs elsewhere, does Thomas become an option for ratio balancing?

Muamba is a quick, easy fix, but might be a dangerous play, and expensive.  So I'm good trusting these guys whichever they decide.
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #658 on: March 13, 2018, 05:51:14 PM »

Finding a MLB that might actually be better than Muamba for considerably less might be as viable an option, though.  There is a reason why we have 100% Int QB's, and MLB is *almost* as important a position as QB.  They are game changers, and hence, having a much larger pool to choose from makes sense.

Putting your ratio into a ratio busting spot opens you up to problems when that player goes down.  Unlike QB's, MLB's are beat up a lot more, and are more likely to need an in game replacement and more so, someone to start if/when they are injured.

It is great to find a talent that is a game changer with the proper passport.  But there is a reason why every team plays 3 Nat hoggies and a #5 WR as more than half their ratio.  Because those players are cheap and plentiful.  

I get trying to push for that cup by having a ratio breaker at MLB.  The question is, barring passport, is he the best MLB?  Would signing Reed or Woods has made the team better, cheaper?  Is JSK going to be as good as Muamba at a fraction of the cost?  Do we have players currently under contract that can cover our ratio?  If Muamba signs elsewhere, does Thomas become an option for ratio balancing?


Muamba is a quick, easy fix, but might be a dangerous play, and expensive.  So I'm good trusting these guys whichever they decide.

The problem with these questions is that they are questions.

Signing Muamba gives you a guaranteed, bonafide starting MLB. No risk above the usual risk you take with any player, and that includes injury. My thoughts are that even if JSK went down, Miles would get on the field as an backup so it wouldn't cause a catastrophe for in-game ratio.
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the paw
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« Reply #659 on: March 13, 2018, 06:01:31 PM »


I get trying to push for that cup by having a ratio breaker at MLB.  The question is, barring passport, is he the best MLB?  Would signing Reed or Woods has made the team better, cheaper?  Is JSK going to be as good as Muamba at a fraction of the cost?  Do we have players currently under contract that can cover our ratio?  If Muamba signs elsewhere, does Thomas become an option for ratio balancing?

Muamba is a quick, easy fix, but might be a dangerous play, and expensive.  So I'm good trusting these guys whichever they decide.

Muamba is better than Reed.  Muamba is comparable to Bear Woods, but IMHO, more durable.  We don't know if Santos-Knox is effective at MLB, much less better than Muamba. 

If Muamba doesn't sign, I imagine we will sign a cheaper import LB to play behind Wild and JSK, and make up the ratio by starting Coates. 

I think you need to reconcile yourself to the fact that it is very unlikely Thomas will be re-signed.  He certainly won't be re-signed in lieu of Muamba, the club is invested in Ekakitie at this point. 
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