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December 13, 2018, 11:14:34 AM *
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Poll
Question: How would you grade the Bombers free agent transactions for day 1?
A - 5 (8.2%)
A- - 7 (11.5%)
B+ - 21 (34.4%)
B - 16 (26.2%)
B- - 6 (9.8%)
C+ - 4 (6.6%)
C - 1 (1.6%)
C- - 0 (0%)
D - 0 (0%)
F - 1 (1.6%)
Total Voters: 61

Pages: 1 2 3 ... 7 [All]
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Author Topic: Grading Today's Action  (Read 5539 times)
66 Chevelle
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« on: February 13, 2018, 10:26:17 PM »

thought it would be interesting now that the first day has ended, how successful, or unsuccessful our members thought day one went...
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gbill2004
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 10:28:37 PM »

I?ll vote later tonight. Day 1 isn?t over yet.
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the paw
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2018, 11:20:54 PM »

Today was great.  All that can be reasonably expected.  We got out of the gate fast, and signed a NI starter, replaced Heath with equivalent quality, and upgraded our back up RB.

We really only have to make one or two more moves.  A NI starter on D and another LB, and there are still multiple good options in play for both.
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Jesse
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2018, 11:22:08 PM »

I don?t see a position group that we haven?t maintained or improved upon. The issue now is how we deal with the ratio.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2018, 11:23:40 PM »

I don?t see a position group that we haven?t maintained or improved upon. The issue now is how we deal with the ratio.
DL with the assumed loss of Westerman.
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dd
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2018, 11:40:54 PM »

I am holding out hope that we re-sign him and get a MLB, then it will be an A+!!

But we have to be pretty happy right now- solid backup Qb who's won a GC, playmaking depth threat WR who's won a GC, shut down DB, upgraded our NAT content with Demski and LaFrance.

Right now I got us at an A, get us Westerman and a MLB and it's off the charts!!!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 11:53:33 PM by dd » Logged
gbill2004
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2018, 11:52:06 PM »

#Bombers are officially done for Day 1 of #CFL free agency.
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2018, 12:06:34 AM »

It is not over but a B so far to me.

Love the Canadian depth on the offence and and another quality DB but MLB remains a monumental concern!
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thunderNlightning
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2018, 12:08:32 AM »

It is not over but a B so far to me.

Love the Canadian depth on the offence and and another quality DB but MLB remains a monumental concern!

I agree, I would have thought that would have been #1 priority honestly.
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Jesse
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2018, 12:12:07 AM »

DL with the assumed loss of Westerman.

I don?t see that as a drop off in talent, especially if we see more of Nevis and Johnson playing together. It?s the hit to the ratio that hurts.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2018, 12:12:23 AM »

I gave a C+. Demski is overpaid. We didn?t really need Lafrance. I do like the Fenner signing but no MLB yet.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2018, 12:13:51 AM »

I gave a C+. Demski is overpaid. We didn?t really need Lafrance. I do like the Fenner signing but no MLB yet.
That's funny, cuz it's exactly the same I gave it for exactly the same reasons. I guess we're not as far apart as I thought we were.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2018, 12:15:46 AM »

That's funny, cuz it's exactly the same I gave it for exactly the same reasons. I guess we're not as far apart as I thought we were.
Great minds think alike!  Wink
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blue girl
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« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2018, 12:44:00 AM »

I gave us an A-. I would still like to re-sign Westerman and get a MLB but overall I'm very happy.
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RyGuy13
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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2018, 01:05:47 AM »

Bombers did good today. I know a lot of people's concerns are at MLB still, as are mine but Taylor Reed and Bear Woods are still available heading into tomorrow. I'd like us to sign one of them plus a DL player. Obviously Westerman would top that list but even getting Jake Thomas back or signing Eddie Steele would be good too.
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Big Daddy
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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2018, 01:49:37 AM »

I gave a C+. Demski is overpaid. We didn?t really need Lafrance. I do like the Fenner signing but no MLB yet.

I?ll third that notion -  really felt MLB was the most obvious need.  Love getting Demski but sure hope we didn?t pay huge bucks for him, and it?s only one year.
Definitely like Fenner signing.  Losing Heath will hurt.
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dd
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« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2018, 01:52:19 AM »

Fenner is an upgrade over Heath, much more physical player, life will go on without JT, and probably be better.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2018, 02:06:13 AM »

Good - Fenner

Meh - Lafrance

Bad - Demski contract value.

There appears to be a plan, though, and I hope we see a couple more solid signings tomorrow.

C+
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Pigskin
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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2018, 02:54:20 AM »

I liked TJ. but you can't keep them all.
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the paw
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« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2018, 03:25:38 AM »

You guys calling ?overpay? on Demski need to get a clue.  Seriously, ask yourself how many starting quality NI receivers were available in free agency.  Here?s the short list:

Demski, Jake Harty, Rory Kohlert, Cory Watson.

Demski is a scarce commodity in this free agency, and as such he has to get paid.  It?s basic economics.

Would you want any of those other guys instead?  Did you expect him to come at a discount for the privilege of coming home?  If he did that, I would want to cut him for being too stupid to play on my team. 

There is a reason that Sinopoli, Durant, and Parker never hit the market.
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fuzzy
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« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2018, 05:40:41 AM »

I liked TJ. but you can't keep them all.
If no TJ being resigned,  wonder if there's cap space for Aaron Grymes or Mitchell White?
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RyGuy13
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GO BLUE GO!!!


« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2018, 05:47:59 AM »

If no TJ being resigned,  wonder if there's cap space for Aaron Grymes or Mitchell White?

I believe Mitchell White signed with the Als today. I also read Grymes is still exploring NFL opportunities, but Eskimo GM Sunderland is pretty confident a deal would get done with Grymes quickly if no NFL offers come.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2018, 05:52:39 AM »

If no TJ being resigned,  wonder if there's cap space for Aaron Grymes or Mitchell White?

Pretty sure we're done shopping for DB's.  You did notice we signed Gaitor, Fenner, Fogg, Randle, Clarke... and have others coming back, and some new faces recruited...

21       Alexander, Brandon    DB    I    6'0    190    24    UCF
      Bingham, Zavian    DB    I    5'10    195    25    Jackson State
25       Branning, Kahlen    DB    N    6'1    195    24    University of Regina
30       Brown, Sam    DB    I    6'1    175    25    Missouri Western State
29       Clarke, Steven    DB    I    5'10    195    26    Vanderbilt
26       Conteh, Abubakarr    DB    N    6'0    200    22    Grambling
      Fenner, Chandler    DB    I    6'1    190    27    Holy Cross
3       Fogg, Kevin    DB    I    5'10    191    27    Liberty
23       Gaitor, Anthony    DB    I    5'10    180    29    Florida International
      Howard, Travis    DB    I    6'1    200    28    Ohio State University
0       Jones, Derek    DB    N    6'1    190    25    Simon Fraser
31       Leggett, Maurice    DB    I    5'11    203    31    Valdosta State
16       Loffler, Taylor    DB    N    6'4    220    25    UBC
71       Morgan, Brendan    DB    N    6'0    195    27    Queen's (Can)
      Patterson, Eric    DB    I    5'10    193    25    Ball State University
27       Porter, Robert    DB    I    5'10    188    24    Jackson State
8       Randle, Chris    DB    I    5'11    195    29    Utah State
22       Walker, Brian    DB    I    5'9    195    22    Fayetteville State

18 DB's fighting over 5 starting spots and maybe 5 backup spots and a couple PR spots...
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2018, 07:05:28 AM »

One more signing needed.....a stud LB?er preferably a MLB.   Manyana perhaps?   I?m feeling pretty good about our team at the moment.
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bigbuff33
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« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2018, 08:15:16 AM »

As others have said...a very good day...BUT
We need a MLB...
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gbill2004
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« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2018, 12:40:57 PM »

3Down gives us a B+: http://3downnation.com/2018/02/14/grading-team-day-one-free-agency/
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GCn18
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« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2018, 01:05:48 PM »

I voted B-. Fenner was a huge get and on a two year deal. Demski provides us some breathing room on ratio without throwing a scrub out onto the field. LaFrance I don't get...but he was cheap anyway and can likely contribute on teams.
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trapper
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« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2018, 01:34:14 PM »

Bombers did as good as anyone could possibly do with it being a rather low profile list of FAs compared to other years.

Having 3 hometown boys in the lineup...WOW.  It is hard to value the extra energy/enthusiasm these players have on a team.  It was huge for the Riders when they had several Regina kids in the lineup.

Can't wait to see three take the field at the same time... I love these hometown stories!

It's going to be a good year for the Blue.
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blue_gold_84
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Fort Hew


« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2018, 01:35:57 PM »

I went with a grade B for Day 1.

Fenner was hands down the biggest addition, IMO. Demski was basically a given and LaFrance was a nice surprise.

MLB is still the glaring deficiency on this roster.
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GCn18
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« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2018, 01:41:02 PM »

Bombers did as good as anyone could possibly do with it being a rather low profile list of FAs compared to other years.

Having 3 hometown boys in the lineup...WOW.  It is hard to value the extra energy/enthusiasm these players have on a team.  It was huge for the Riders when they had several Regina kids in the lineup.

Can't wait to see three take the field at the same time... I love these hometown stories!

It's going to be a good year for the Blue.

I don't think LaFrance hits the field much unless we have injuries. He's a likely candidate for being a healthy scratch most games.
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blue_gold_84
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Fort Hew


« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2018, 01:55:09 PM »

I don't think LaFrance hits the field much unless we have injuries. He's a likely candidate for being a healthy scratch most games.

What about ST?
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2018, 02:25:26 PM »

I don't see Lafrance as a healthy scratch. I see him as taking Normand's roster spot.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2018, 02:26:41 PM »

I don't see Lafrance as a healthy scratch. I see him as taking Normand's roster spot.
Agreed. That?s how I see it as well.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2018, 02:37:49 PM »

You guys calling ?overpay? on Demski need to get a clue.  Seriously, ask yourself how many starting quality NI receivers were available in free agency.  Here?s the short list:

Demski, Jake Harty, Rory Kohlert, Cory Watson.

Demski is a scarce commodity in this free agency, and as such he has to get paid.  It?s basic economics.

Would you want any of those other guys instead?  Did you expect him to come at a discount for the privilege of coming home?  If he did that, I would want to cut him for being too stupid to play on my team. 

There is a reason that Sinopoli, Durant, and Parker never hit the market.

The guy has averaged 241 yards receiving in three years, 243 yards in PR a year, and 110 yards in KR per year.  That doesn't warrant $145K a year as reported, I don't care what your passport looks like.  Less than 600 yards total production average per season.  That's a third of Harris' numbers, and I don't think he's making more than 200K.  And that's a richer contract then Bowman.

If he lights it up with 800 - 1000 yards receiving this year, I'm wrong.  If he pulls similar numbers to the last three years, I'm right.  He will not be a primary target unless we get hit with serious injuries, so if it's just a Jamie Stoddard type possession/2nd and short receiver, it's a big overspend.
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Tehedra
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« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2018, 02:40:17 PM »

I'm willing to hold out and see what happens on the field. It isn't all about receiving yards, if he draws away defenders from others it is worth while to have him on the field. Calgary got burnt bad the one game for not covering Demski.
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blueraid
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« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2018, 02:43:18 PM »

I'm going to give us a B+...If we would've signed a stud MLB, I would have said an A...but as it stands right now , a linebacker of note would have been the icing on the cake....The search continues
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trapper
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« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2018, 02:48:31 PM »

I don't think LaFrance hits the field much unless we have injuries. He's a likely candidate for being a healthy scratch most games.

I don't think he'll be a starter.  I think there will be a few plays in the ol playbook with him and Harris in the backfield....perhaps in 2nd and short situations. 
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GCn18
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« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2018, 02:48:37 PM »

The guy has averaged 241 yards receiving in three years, 243 yards in PR a year, and 110 yards in KR per year.  That doesn't warrant $145K a year as reported, I don't care what your passport looks like.  Less than 600 yards total production average per season.  That's a third of Harris' numbers, and I don't think he's making more than 200K.  And that's a richer contract then Bowman.

If he lights it up with 800 - 1000 yards receiving this year, I'm wrong.  If he pulls similar numbers to the last three years, I'm right.  He will not be a primary target unless we get hit with serious injuries, so if it's just a Jamie Stoddard type possession/2nd and short receiver, it's a big overspend.

If he can put up 600 yards that will be the best NAT receiver production we have seen in many years. Therefore, not an overspend. He will have to produce but you are seriously out of touch with market worth on NAT receivers if you think that 145k means he must put up 800-1000 yards as a NAT receiver. 800-1000 yards gets you 145k as an import.
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the paw
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« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2018, 02:50:05 PM »

The guy has averaged 241 yards receiving in three years, 243 yards in PR a year, and 110 yards in KR per year.  That doesn't warrant $145K a year as reported, I don't care what your passport looks like.  Less than 600 yards total production average per season.  That's a third of Harris' numbers, and I don't think he's making more than 200K.  And that's a richer contract then Bowman.

If he lights it up with 800 - 1000 yards receiving this year, I'm wrong.  If he pulls similar numbers to the last three years, I'm right.  He will not be a primary target unless we get hit with serious injuries, so if it's just a Jamie Stoddard type possession/2nd and short receiver, it's a big overspend.

If you are looking back at past performance rather than future potential, the horse has already left the barn.  Under your metrics, Cory Watson was the best sign since he has some great numbers in his past.  If Demski had already put up 800-900 yards, we would be paying him more than $150k. I disagree that he isn't going to be a main target, I think they got him because they intend to use him.  If they wanted a decoy, they could have stuck with Feoli-Gudino.  

Its supply and demand, and players like Demski are in short supply.  He and Harty are the only ones on an upward trajectory and available this year.  

That's not to say this isn't without risk.  If he gets injured for a substantial part of the season, then its a bust.  
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GCn18
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« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2018, 02:52:24 PM »

If you are looking back at past performance rather than future potential, the horse has already left the barn.  Under your metrics, Cory Watson was the best sign since he has some great numbers in his past.  If Demski had already put up 800-900 yards, we would be paying him more than $150k. I disagree that he isn't going to be a main target, I think they got him because they intend to use him.  If they wanted a decoy, they could have stuck with Feoli-Gudino.  

Its supply and demand, and players like Demski are in short supply.  He and Harty are the only ones on an upward trajectory and available this year.  

That's not to say this isn't without risk.  If he gets injured for a substantial part of the season, then its a bust.  

That can be said about any player signed on a one year deal really.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2018, 02:52:42 PM »

On Demski, the $145k does not justify his production.  He is clearly getting paid based on potential/expectations.  If Demski's production is worth $145k, then JFG is worth $200k  Cheesy
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2018, 03:15:41 PM »

If he can put up 600 yards that will be the best NAT receiver production we have seen in many years. Therefore, not an overspend. He will have to produce but you are seriously out of touch with market worth on NAT receivers if you think that 145k means he must put up 800-1000 yards as a NAT receiver. 800-1000 yards gets you 145k as an import.

Right.  So according to your metrics, if he's twice as productive as his best season to date, it's a good deal.  Double his best season.  

Could it happen?  Sure.  

Has he shown serious progression over the last three years.  No.  He averages two receptions a game.  So to get to 600 yards, he has to either double his average number of receptions, or double his yardage per reception.  

Nichols throws about 23 completions a game, so if you divide that up evenly between Bowman, Adams, Dressler, Harris, Demski, and whomever the fifth receiver is, the best likely number Demski will see is 4 passes a game.  But in reality, Harris is probably going to get at least 5 completions a game, Adams will likely get 5, and Bowman hopefully gets 5.  So that leaves 9 average completions to be distributed between Dressler, Demski, and one more receiver.  Dressler's better than a three reception a game receiver, especially with the attention Bowman's going to get, and Nic is probably back to somewhere around 2 - 3 receptions a game.  It's the same problem he had in Saskatchewan.  When your primary options are Carter and Roosevelt, with the likes of Edwards and Grant as secondaries, you aren't going to see the ball as much as you'd like too.  

Now, could things change?  For sure.  Maybe we get away from the run game a bit.  But we're a little overstacked at talent between Harris and Flanders for that, and then the Lafrance signing becomes passport money that won't be developed beyond ST.  Maybe we go long ball a lot more this year.  I sure hope we do, but that's Bowman, Adams, and Dressler territory.  So now we're at second and 5 to second and 7 pass plays, which Nichols is great at.  So who are the targets then.  Demski, Harris, and #5 receiver.  Harris will take more of those passes then Demski.

As far as the Watson comment goes, if Cory could stay out of the tub, I'd take him in a heartbeat over Demski.  But he can't.

To be clear, I'm not against Demski's signing, but that's a lot of cash for 2 - 3 receptions a game, which is likely what he is going to see.
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GCn18
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« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2018, 03:24:58 PM »

Right.  So according to your metrics, if he's twice as productive as his best season to date, it's a good deal.  Double his best season.  

Could it happen?  Sure.  

Has he shown serious progression over the last three years.  No.  He averages two receptions a game.  So to get to 600 yards, he has to either double his average number of receptions, or double his yardage per reception.  

Nichols throws about 23 completions a game, so if you divide that up evenly between Bowman, Adams, Dressler, Harris, Demski, and whomever the fifth receiver is, the best likely number Demski will see is 4 passes a game.  But in reality, Harris is probably going to get at least 5 completions a game, Adams will likely get 5, and Bowman hopefully gets 5.  So that leaves 9 average completions to be distributed between Dressler, Demski, and one more receiver.  Dressler's better than a three reception a game receiver, especially with the attention Bowman's going to get, and Nic is probably back to somewhere around 2 - 3 receptions a game.  It's the same problem he had in Saskatchewan.  When your primary options are Carter and Roosevelt, with the likes of Edwards and Grant as secondaries, you aren't going to see the ball as much as you'd like too.  

Now, could things change?  For sure.  Maybe we get away from the run game a bit.  But we're a little overstacked at talent between Harris and Flanders for that, and then the Lafrance signing becomes passport money that won't be developed beyond ST.  Maybe we go long ball a lot more this year.  I sure hope we do, but that's Bowman, Adams, and Dressler territory.  So now we're at second and 5 to second and 7 pass plays, which Nichols is great at.  So who are the targets then.  Demski, Harris, and #5 receiver.  Harris will take more of those passes then Demski.

As far as the Watson comment goes, if Cory could stay out of the tub, I'd take him in a heartbeat over Demski.  But he can't.

To be clear, I'm not against Demski's signing, but that's a lot of cash for 2 - 3 receptions a game, which is likely what he is going to see.

Last year he would have been close to 500 yards if healthy on a receiving corps where he was about the same kind of option he will be here. Also it's kind of silly to suggest that Nichols will throw 23 receptions per game and the touches will be spread out exactly as you state. Some games Demski will be the forgotten man other game he may get 8 or 9 touches...it will depend on the defence.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2018, 03:47:02 PM »

Last year he would have been close to 500 yards if healthy on a receiving corps where he was about the same kind of option he will be here. Also it's kind of silly to suggest that Nichols will throw 23 receptions per game and the touches will be spread out exactly as you state. Some games Demski will be the forgotten man other game he may get 8 or 9 touches...it will depend on the defence.

So now we're down to 500 from 600?  And using that logic, JFG = Nic Demski, with his 462 yards last season.

Nichols best year was 24 completions per game, which was 2017.  2016 was 22.  Career wise 18.  So, if we keep the same pass/run style offense in 2018, 23 is a very reasonable number, and seeing as how we haven't got worse at running back, I don't see straying too far from that.

Harris averaged 6 catches in 2017 and 4.5 in 2016, so five is a very reasonable expectation.  Now, maybe Demski gets a lot of those passes.  But seeing as how Harris' receiving numbers put him in the Top 20 last season, it would seem counterintuitive to replace his production with the potential production from a guy whose numbers don't get him into the top 50.

Adams has averaged 4, 6, and 5 receptions a game for the last three years.  Again, 5 not an unreasonable number.

Bowman has averaged over 5 receptions a game for the last three healthy years of his career, and that's on teams with much better receiving core than the Bombers have this year.

Dressler has averaged 4.5 receptions per game for the last three years. 

So, if my numbers are "silly", please feel free to show me how.  Demski's #4 on the depth chart skill wise (at best), and if he's taking plays away from much better players, we are doing something wrong. 

So unless we abandon the running game, it's unlikely that he will hit the numbers you have even suggested warrants his salary.
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GCn18
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« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2018, 03:55:30 PM »

So now we're down to 500 from 600?  And using that logic, JFG = Nic Demski, with his 462 yards last season.

Nichols best year was 24 completions per game, which was 2017.  2016 was 22.  Career wise 18.  So, if we keep the same pass/run style offense in 2018, 23 is a very reasonable number, and seeing as how we haven't got worse at running back, I don't see straying too far from that.

Harris averaged 6 catches in 2017 and 4.5 in 2016, so five is a very reasonable expectation.  Now, maybe Demski gets a lot of those passes.  But seeing as how Harris' receiving numbers put him in the Top 20 last season, it would seem counterintuitive to replace his production with the potential production from a guy whose numbers don't get him into the top 50.

Adams has averaged 4, 6, and 5 receptions a game for the last three years.  Again, 5 not an unreasonable number.

Bowman has averaged over 5 receptions a game for the last three healthy years of his career, and that's on teams with much better receiving core than the Bombers have this year.

Dressler has averaged 4.5 receptions per game for the last three years. 

So, if my numbers are "silly", please feel free to show me how.  Demski's #4 on the depth chart skill wise (at best), and if he's taking plays away from much better players, we are doing something wrong. 

So unless we abandon the running game, it's unlikely that he will hit the numbers you have even suggested warrants his salary.

Your numbers are silly because they show receptions not pass attempts, and they predicate on the huge assumption that we will use Demski in a traditional receiver role when he is clearly a hybrid player. We run an offence that predicates on ball control, unlike the Riders, and Demski is far better suited to a role in that type of offence. Why is Demski getting touches a bad thing in your mind? If he's the best option on the play...he's the best option on the play. Use him. He can play a very good role in providing our offence with another check down for Nichols capable of big YAC yards. It draws attention away from Harris and will eliminate the ability of opposing defences to load the box to stop Harris and to drop deep on our other receivers in man. There's more to football than just what you catch and how often you're targeted. Your breakdown is purely statistical based on an average of how a different team utilized him and assumes that he has peaked at those numbers.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2018, 03:59:36 PM »

it all boils down to how long Nichols will be willing to stand in the pocket, really... and what LaPo does with the scheme... there is opportunity here but I'm telling you, 2 to 3 people will have the majority of balls... so, if you want to be on the short list you better suit up and play ball from the get...
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« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2018, 04:05:19 PM »

it all boils down to how long Nichols will be willing to stand in the pocket, really... and what LaPo does with the scheme... there is opportunity here but I'm telling you, 2 to 3 people will have the majority of balls... so, if you want to be on the short list you better suit up and play ball from the get...

Yep...Demski likely sees 4-5 targets a game. He needs to convert that into receptions and yardage. The Bombers will have a package for him. You don't spend 150k on a unique talent like Demski just to use him like JFG.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2018, 04:07:39 PM »

Yep...Demski likely sees 4-5 targets a game. He needs to convert that into receptions and yardage. The Bombers will have a package for him. You don't spend 150k on a unique talent like Demski just to use him like JFG.

touches, yeah...  but I wouldn't get my hopes up about him becoming a featured target.... but he'll see the ball, of course...
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2018, 04:10:56 PM »

you don't think that a lot of this 'home town love' that was getting spread around had anything to do with putting fan's butts in the seats, do ya?  Smart move on Walters part, pick up some nice players and get a return on the investment with a bump in sales... maybe that's why he spent a little more than most thought was 'good'... 
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booch
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« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2018, 04:11:25 PM »

I think touches and being featured for any of our guys will be dictated on game flow and defesive schemes...He won't be the main feature on offence but some games I bet he sees 10 targets
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« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2018, 04:13:00 PM »

you don't think that a lot of this 'home town love' that was getting spread around had anything to do with putting fan's butts in the seats, do ya?  Smart move on Walters part, pick up some nice players and get a return on the investment with a bump in sales... maybe that's why he spent a little more than most thought was 'good'... 

It is a good investment. But it?s not one you make unless the player can do the job.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2018, 04:13:50 PM »

I think touches and being featured for any of our guys will be dictated on game flow and defesive schemes...He won't be the main feature on offence but some games I bet he sees 10 targets

BOOCH! you think that Demski will see 10 targets a game? really? nobody sees 10, why would he?
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« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2018, 04:14:47 PM »

BOOCH! you think that Demski will see 10 targets a game? really? nobody sees 10, why would he?
Some games he might.  And some games he will see 1 target. 
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« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2018, 04:14:59 PM »

It is a good investment. But it?s not one you make unless the player can do the job.

yeah, before we start down this road...  I'm not saying he isn't a very good player... just that this game is also a business and why not kill 2 birds with 1 stone?
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« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2018, 04:16:33 PM »

Some games he might.  And some games he will see 1 target. 

I'm not saying that he won't get his looks, but nobody gets 10 a game, even when Nichols was accused of not spreading the ball around nobody was getting 10 looks....
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« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2018, 04:19:12 PM »

I'm not saying that he won't get his looks, but nobody gets 10 a game, even when Nichols was accused of not spreading the ball around nobody was getting 10 looks....

You take what the defences give. I'm willing to wager that at the start of the season they will give us Demski to neutralize Harris and other receivers. When Demski makes them pay.....the opposing defences tighten down on him and it gives us other options.
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« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2018, 04:21:03 PM »

I'm not going to be the one to ruin day 2, lol... I'm moving along...
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« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2018, 04:21:07 PM »

BOOCH! you think that Demski will see 10 targets a game? really? nobody sees 10, why would he?

His first two games last year, Demski had 7 catches per game.  And the Rider's receiving corps was every bit as good as what we are putting out this year.  So it's not inconceivable that he could get 10 target in a given game.  Heck, I think Coates might have gotten 10 targets in our playoff game last year.  

 Now, Demski's not going to average that, he's going to go up and down like everyone else, but he is definitely going to get his share of looks.  
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« Reply #58 on: February 14, 2018, 04:23:47 PM »

not every game...but based on flow of the game...and waht a defense is giving I bet he could get at times 10 targets a game...or some games 1..or 2...or none
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« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2018, 04:26:50 PM »

He will get the touches that would have been otherwise reserved for Flanders because I don't see how we are going to get him on the field right now.
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« Reply #60 on: February 14, 2018, 04:27:04 PM »

His first two games last year, Demski had 7 catches per game.  And the Rider's receiving corps was every bit as good as what we are putting out this year.  So it's not inconceivable that he could get 10 target in a given game.  Heck, I think Coates might have gotten 10 targets in our playoff game last year.  

 Now, Demski's not going to average that, he's going to go up and down like everyone else, but he is definitely going to get his share of looks.  

and I'm sure that you saw the following 7 as well, right?   and that would be like almost 200 for the year... he had 19 last year... but with upside.... but I get it, I love cheering on the home town guy, that's what I do... so I hope he at least gets enough looks/touches to make you all happy... and I'm being honest here, not a poke...
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« Reply #61 on: February 14, 2018, 04:27:12 PM »

His first two games last year, Demski had 7 catches per game.  And the Rider's receiving corps was every bit as good as what we are putting out this year.  So it's not inconceivable that he could get 10 target in a given game.  Heck, I think Coates might have gotten 10 targets in our playoff game last year.  

 Now, Demski's not going to average that, he's going to go up and down like everyone else, but he is definitely going to get his share of looks.  

He?s going to get his share of runs and sweeps as well.

Pre-snap, Harris trots out to the slot, Demski runs behind Nichols.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #62 on: February 14, 2018, 04:28:16 PM »

He?s going to get his share of runs and sweeps as well.

Pre-snap, Harris trots out to the slot, Demski runs behind Nichols.

then he is going to be a very busy young man and will indeed earn every penny he is getting....
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« Reply #63 on: February 14, 2018, 04:28:44 PM »

and I'm sure that you saw the following 7 as well, right?   and that would be like almost 200 for the year... he had 19 last year... but with upside.... but I get it, I love cheering on the home town guy, that's what I do... so I hope he at least gets enough looks/touches to make you all happy... and I'm being honest here, not a poke...

He didn't see the field much after his injury last year. Bagg was productive and they have too much cash tied up in their IMP receiving corps to not field 4 IMP receivers.
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booch
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« Reply #64 on: February 14, 2018, 04:28:48 PM »

yeah he may take some of those sweeps away from Dressler this year so Dressler doesn't pounded on so much...and Demski won't go down as easily so I see that being an upgrade
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #65 on: February 14, 2018, 04:31:47 PM »

not every game...but based on flow of the game...and waht a defense is giving I bet he could get at times 10 targets a game...or some games 1..or 2...or none


that was the second time in as many days.... you gotta quit it....  Wink
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« Reply #66 on: February 14, 2018, 04:34:14 PM »

will do my best lol
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« Reply #67 on: February 14, 2018, 04:38:10 PM »

Your numbers are silly because they show receptions not pass attempts, and they predicate on the huge assumption that we will use Demski in a traditional receiver role when he is clearly a hybrid player. We run an offence that predicates on ball control, unlike the Riders, and Demski is far better suited to a role in that type of offence. Why is Demski getting touches a bad thing in your mind? If he's the best option on the play...he's the best option on the play. Use him. He can play a very good role in providing our offence with another check down for Nichols capable of big YAC yards. It draws attention away from Harris and will eliminate the ability of opposing defences to load the box to stop Harris and to drop deep on our other receivers in man. There's more to football than just what you catch and how often you're targeted. Your breakdown is purely statistical based on an average of how a different team utilized him and assumes that he has peaked at those numbers.

Demski getting touches is not a bad thing in my mind, as I have said I am not against his signing.  But he's getting a ton of money all based on potential which may or may not be realized, and to date, he has not shown actualization of that potential.  I hope he does.  But we still have problems on defense which his potential based salary could have gone a long way to fixing.

As far as your "pass attempts" logic goes, Matt Nichols had the sixth best single season completion percentage in CFL history last year.  Ricky Ray's absolute best season with 6 percentage points better, so unless we drastically increase the number of passes thrown (and thereby get away from the run game), the number of attempts and completions in a game will not increase.  Reilly's averaged 24 a season for the past two seasons.  BLM's best season was an average of 24 completions a game.  Ricky Ray's best season was 26 completions a game.  So it's fair to say that 23 passes a game is a very reasonable expectation.

I want Demski to light it up, I really do.  But we're paying him 2/3 of what it would have taken to keep Westerman based on his reported signing value in Montreal, and Westerman's proven value to the team and the ratio is likely far more than Demski's.  Keep Westerman and JFG, don't sign Lafrance and Demski, we're slightly worse off on offense and better on defence, neutral on ratio, and still under the cap.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #68 on: February 14, 2018, 04:43:01 PM »

Demski getting touches is not a bad thing in my mind, as I have said I am not against his signing.  But he's getting a ton of money all based on potential which may or may not be realized, and to date, he has not shown actualization of that potential.  I hope he does.  But we still have problems on defense which his potential based salary could have gone a long way to fixing.

As far as your "pass attempts" logic goes, Matt Nichols had the sixth best single season completion percentage in CFL history last year.  Ricky Ray's absolute best season with 6 percentage points better, so unless we drastically increase the number of passes thrown (and thereby get away from the run game), the number of attempts and completions in a game will not increase.  Reilly's averaged 24 a season for the past two seasons.  BLM's best season was an average of 24 completions a game.  Ricky Ray's best season was 26 completions a game.  So it's fair to say that 23 passes a game is a very reasonable expectation.

I want Demski to light it up, I really do.  But we're paying him 2/3 of what it would have taken to keep Westerman based on his reported signing value in Montreal, and Westerman's proven value to the team and the ratio is likely far more than Demski's.  Keep Westerman and JFG, don't sign Lafrance and Demski, we're slightly worse off on offense and better on defence, neutral on ratio, and still under the cap.

Sounds like Westerman wasn't coming back no matter what.  Bombers made him 3 offers, and the last was close to $200k.  Can't force a player to sign a contract. 
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #69 on: February 14, 2018, 04:53:49 PM »

Sounds like Westerman wasn't coming back no matter what.  Bombers made him 3 offers, and the last was close to $200k.  Can't force a player to sign a contract. 

Slice 30K off of Demski's contract and you beat the Als offer by 10 grand.
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« Reply #70 on: February 14, 2018, 04:56:14 PM »

Slice 30K off of Demski's contract and you beat the Als offer by 10 grand.
There's a point where you make your best offer and then you move on.  If the guy wants to be here, $10k isn't going to be the deciding factor, especially since he will get playoff money with the Bombers, which is unlikely with Montreal. 
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #71 on: February 14, 2018, 05:05:06 PM »

Like I said, I hope Nic plays lights out.  Will be happy to eat humble pie if he does.  But he's got a big hill to climb to get there.
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« Reply #72 on: February 14, 2018, 05:36:37 PM »

Like I said, I hope Nic plays lights out.  Will be happy to eat humble pie if he does.  But he's got a big hill to climb to get there.

I will agree with you on that. He has to prove he is worth the money. I'm just not going to automatically say he's being overpaid without seeing what he does on the field and feel he definitely has the skill level to put up a 600 yard season, and if he does so...we didn't overpay.
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« Reply #73 on: February 14, 2018, 05:39:48 PM »

Slice 30K off of Demski's contract and you beat the Als offer by 10 grand.

Slice 30k off his salary and I doubt he's a Bomber.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #74 on: February 14, 2018, 05:43:20 PM »

Slice 30k off his salary and I doubt he's a Bomber.

And if that meant Westerman was still on the team, I would take that 18 games a season.
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« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2018, 05:46:14 PM »

And if that meant Westerman was still on the team, I would take that 18 games a season.

Problem is that it appears that Westerman wanted to move on.
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« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2018, 08:10:42 PM »

I gave the Bombers a B on their free agency.I like the players the Bombers picked up but they also lost a lot in Heath and Westerman. Losing Hurl may be addition by subtraction.
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« Reply #77 on: February 14, 2018, 09:17:15 PM »

We lost 5 Canadians and added 2 new ones. Obviously some of the 2018 draft choices or even holdovers from 2017 will fill the roster. Regardless we'll be a little younger and a little less experienced within our Canadian roster.

Not necessarily a bad thing but a thing to watch in TC to see which young guys push to make the roster.
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« Reply #78 on: February 14, 2018, 09:20:40 PM »

yeah but Thomas..Normand..JFG..Hurl were not vital to continued/ongoing success and becoming better...we will be better for it
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« Reply #79 on: February 14, 2018, 09:58:11 PM »

If we get Henoc now that he has been released for Drunken Jones boat I would give day 2 of FA a gleaming A+ for Walters. Day 1 B good Day 2 A+ possibly....
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #80 on: February 15, 2018, 07:00:06 AM »

looky there, we have us a pretty nice little bell curve there with the voting...  except for the one rouge F vote...
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« Reply #81 on: February 15, 2018, 08:50:23 AM »

I voted early giving him a B+ but we are still short one impact LB or MLB....if that doesn?t happen I?m at a B.....which is still good.   
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« Reply #82 on: February 15, 2018, 08:54:56 AM »

I gave a C+. Demski is overpaid. We didn?t really need Lafrance. I do like the Fenner signing but no MLB yet.
My C+ will change to an A if we sign Henoc.
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« Reply #83 on: February 16, 2018, 02:19:56 PM »

3Down Nation ranks the Bombers as number one in free agency. Riders 7th:   http://3downnation.com/2018/02/16/every-cfl-team-free-agency-ranked/
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« Reply #84 on: February 16, 2018, 03:15:08 PM »

looky there, we have us a pretty nice little bell curve there with the voting...  except for the one rouge F vote...

Ignore outliers if using a quantitative research method. And depending who gave it an F  Wink

A slight negative skew is nothing bad.
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Tehedra
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« Reply #85 on: February 18, 2018, 10:12:24 AM »

We lost Westerman who is a great Canadian DL man but I don't think his replacement is much worse and we upgraded our offense.
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« Reply #86 on: February 18, 2018, 05:17:45 PM »

3Down Nation ranks the Bombers as number one in free agency. Riders 7th:   http://3downnation.com/2018/02/16/every-cfl-team-free-agency-ranked/

Nice ! Hard to disagree especially with the NI signings
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« Reply #87 on: February 18, 2018, 05:49:50 PM »

3Down Nation ranks the Bombers as number one in free agency. Riders 7th:   http://3downnation.com/2018/02/16/every-cfl-team-free-agency-ranked/

Again?  Geez, Walters has been consistently schooling the likes of Buono, Hufnagel, Popp... well done sir
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« Reply #88 on: February 18, 2018, 06:17:52 PM »

Again?  Geez, Walters has been consistently schooling the likes of Buono, Hufnagel, Popp... well done sir

Ugh take it easy... schooled? Take a Valium
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kkc60
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« Reply #89 on: February 18, 2018, 07:14:07 PM »

Again?  Geez, Walters has been consistently schooling the likes of Buono, Hufnagel, Popp... well done sir
Yep. Because Popp didn't sign a bunch of FAs, Hufnagel didn't retain his young talent and bring in more talent. Walters has done well. But school? That's a very aardvark way of pumping his tires
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« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2018, 05:09:17 AM »

Durant and Bowman can be considered additions too. Their cap space and roster spots definitely limited signings elsewhere on the roster during free agent day(s)
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« Reply #91 on: February 21, 2018, 08:52:56 AM »

Durant and Bowman can be considered additions too. Their cap space and roster spots definitely limited signings elsewhere on the roster during free agent day(s)
I understood the question as day 1 only of free agency only. If we?re countjng Bowman and Durant then I?d give a grade higher than C+.
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« Reply #92 on: February 21, 2018, 09:49:09 AM »

Nope! We let Westeman and Heath walk.
Who have we replaced,them with, on defence or offence that will have an impact like they did?

Zero.

The two Manitoba Bisons are a no brainer. Durant and Bowman?  Two has beens.  Awesome Ifthis was 2013
The euphoria initially of signing some name players ws awesome. In reality.....
Walters has done zero.  This is a big grade of D.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #93 on: February 21, 2018, 11:19:32 AM »

Nope! We let Westeman and Heath walk.
Who have we replaced,them with, on defence or offence that will have an impact like they did?

Zero.

The two Manitoba Bisons are a no brainer. Durant and Bowman?  Two has beens.  Awesome Ifthis was 2013
The euphoria initially of signing some name players ws awesome. In reality.....
Walters has done zero.  This is a big grade of D.
Westerman was replaced with Roh and Heath was replaced with Fenner. From a ratio perspective, Demski replaces Westerman.
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GCn18
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« Reply #94 on: February 21, 2018, 01:24:34 PM »


Westerman to Roh...downgrade
Heath to Fenner saw off
Westerman to Demski to make ratio is a big downgrade of ratio
Denmark to Bowman huge upgrade
Davis to Durant upgrade
Flanders to LaFrance big downgrade
Hurl to Huh? Huge upgrade
Bond to Neufeld/Spooner/Couture downgrade but ratio improvment

I see FA and roster so far as some upgrading but some downgrading as well, particularly with our ratio. Average at best FA thus far. If we can bring in Muamba, our ratio is in MUCH better shape. Then I would rank FA pretty good, as we have upgraded substantially at some positions and the downgrades are not as steep as the upgrades.

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« Reply #95 on: February 21, 2018, 02:23:00 PM »

I disagree with the way you approached the ratio discussion. It's not Westerman to Demski, it's the upgrade/drop off from Westerman to int replacement, then from int receiver to Demski, unless demski replaces a Canadian receiver as then it also needs to include the replacement of lafrance with X player.

You cannot just compare the skill level of only the Canadians.
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Jesse
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« Reply #96 on: February 21, 2018, 02:27:28 PM »

I disagree with the way you approached the ratio discussion. It's not Westerman to Demski, it's the upgrade/drop off from Westerman to int replacement, then from int receiver to Demski, unless demski replaces a Canadian receiver as then it also needs to include the replacement of lafrance with X player.

You cannot just compare the skill level of only the Canadians.

I agree you can't do it one for one like GCn17 did, it's not really Westerman to Roh, it's Westerman to Jeffcoat (that means Demski goes on for one of the nameless import receivers we've been trotting out. Roh gets to rotate in for imports instead of Thomas rotating in for an NI. That's also an upgrade.

It's a rolling effect that ripples through the roster.
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GCn18
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« Reply #97 on: February 21, 2018, 02:32:19 PM »

I disagree with the way you approached the ratio discussion. It's not Westerman to Demski, it's the upgrade/drop off from Westerman to int replacement, then from int receiver to Demski, unless demski replaces a Canadian receiver as then it also needs to include the replacement of lafrance with X player.

You cannot just compare the skill level of only the Canadians.


I didn't. My comparison was based exactly on the train of thought you have outlined above. I just thought it was pretty obvious and didn't need to be pointed out. The skill level of either player is not compared, their impact on the ratio is. I apologize if that wasn't clear.
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GCn18
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« Reply #98 on: February 21, 2018, 02:35:20 PM »

I agree you can't do it one for one like GCn17 did, it's not really Westerman to Roh, it's Westerman to Jeffcoat (that means Demski goes on for one of the nameless import receivers we've been trotting out. Roh gets to rotate in for imports instead of Thomas rotating in for an NI. That's also an upgrade.

It's a rolling effect that ripples through the roster.

Nameless import receivers like Flanders? Because right now he is the casualty of the ratio flip. The only way we can get Flanders on the field in the current ratio mix is to substitute him for one of Bowman/Dressler/Adams. That is if we can get him onto the roster at all. Sign Muamba and go with 8 NAT starters and that changes.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 02:38:46 PM by GCn17 » Logged

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bluengold204
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« Reply #99 on: February 21, 2018, 02:37:52 PM »

I can't believe that Walters didn't even bother to attempt to find a new MLB
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GCn18
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« Reply #100 on: February 21, 2018, 02:39:10 PM »

I can't believe that Walters didn't even bother to attempt to find a new MLB

I think he is attempting to find one right now.
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Jesse
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« Reply #101 on: February 21, 2018, 02:43:00 PM »

Nameless import receivers like Flanders? Because right now he is the casualty of the ratio flip.

That is true. But he is only one of a rotating group. It was nice to have Flanders and Harris in the back field and use Flanders in different positions. It was a luxury, one I don't think we need with our current crop of receivers.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #102 on: February 21, 2018, 09:11:32 PM »

I agree you can't do it one for one like GCn17 did, it's not really Westerman to Roh, it's Westerman to Jeffcoat (that means Demski goes on for one of the nameless import receivers we've been trotting out. Roh gets to rotate in for imports instead of Thomas rotating in for an NI. That's also an upgrade.

It's a rolling effect that ripples through the roster.

really?

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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #103 on: February 21, 2018, 09:29:03 PM »

I can't believe that Walters didn't even bother to attempt to find a new MLB

Maybe Walters should stop pouring so much water and breaking the stadium locker room sauna every month (notoriously true insider information there kids) and focus on upgrading our defence!

I to see much saw off at best moves here no real upgrades as of yet on D.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 09:30:38 PM by GOLDMEMBER » Logged

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