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Question: Do you think it's disrespectful for players to sit or kneel during the national anthem?  (Voting closed: October 08, 2017, 08:58:48 PM)
Yes - 7 (29.2%)
No - 15 (62.5%)
Undecided - 2 (8.3%)
Total Voters: 24

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Author Topic: Kneeling/Sitting during the National Anthem  (Read 1504 times)
Colton
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« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2017, 04:53:45 AM »

It is in no way disrespectful.
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jets4life
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« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2017, 05:07:38 AM »

People watch football to get away from politics and normal daily rigmarole.  I know I do.  I like how the CFL & TSN keep politics out of it 95% of the time.  NFL & ESPN (owned by Disney) way overstep the line, and as such will alienate entire swathes of viewers.  (10% of ESPN subscribers, 12M households, have cancelled in the last 6 years.)

Keep football football.  Don't politicize yet another aspect of life.  There's plenty of other forums to get your daily dose of politics.


Unfortunately, sports and politics have gone hand and hand since the beginning of time.  Just look at most of the Olympic games, the World Cup, etc. 
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2017, 05:24:32 AM »

People watch football to get away from politics and normal daily rigmarole.  I know I do.  I like how the CFL & TSN keep politics out of it 95% of the time.  NFL & ESPN (owned by Disney) way overstep the line, and as such will alienate entire swathes of viewers.  (10% of ESPN subscribers, 12M households, have cancelled in the last 6 years.)

Keep football football.  Don't politicize yet another aspect of life.  There's plenty of other forums to get your daily dose of politics.

Thing is this.....you can't keep football and politics separate.....not even the Olympics!  Professional sport is big business run by large corporate owners who ascribe to the doctrine of making money and making money and politics have more or less been intertwined for many decades now.   At very high levels just about everything becomes politicized.....even music.   What's going on in the world with Trump threatening "fire and fury" raining down on any country that "dares" to defy the US flag....well even the distraction that is the game of football is being used as a vehicle to drive the corporate agenda. 

I'm proud of the Rider players for their show of solidarity and standing up for what's actually right....we all need to be doing this and if we did Trump wouldn't have an audience.   The fact that Trump has infiltrated our everyday lives is proof of this....he doesn't deserve any audience but he knows how to make one and how to divide them all and make them hostile.  Meanwhile he golfs.....poorly!   
 
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jets4life
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« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2017, 05:56:28 AM »

Thing is this.....you can't keep football and politics separate.....not even the Olympics!  Professional sport is big business run by large corporate owners who ascribe to the doctrine of making money and making money and politics have more or less been intertwined for many decades now.   At very high levels just about everything becomes politicized.....even music.   What's going on in the world with Trump threatening "fire and fury" raining down on any country that "dares" to defy the US flag....well even the distraction that is the game of football is being used as a vehicle to drive the corporate agenda. 

I'm proud of the Rider players for their show of solidarity and standing up for what's actually right....we all need to be doing this and if we did Trump wouldn't have an audience.   The fact that Trump has infiltrated our everyday lives is proof of this....he doesn't deserve any audience but he knows how to make one and how to divide them all and make them hostile.  Meanwhile he golfs.....poorly!   
 

Exactly.

Some examples:

Olympic Hockey- Soviet Union wins just about every Gold Medal, as their "amateurs" are actually the best players in the country, while Canada and the USA compete with mainly college and minor league players.
NHL Hockey- The Richard Riots were caused mainly by French Canadiens deep frustration with the establishment, what at the time was run by the Anglophone majority. 
1936 Olympics- Germany spent years training there athletes to win medals, in order to prove White Europeans were genetically superior to other races
1968 Olympics- two African Americans make a black power gesture at the podium.  They are expelled by the US.
1965 Boxing- Muhammad Ali  the greatest boxer in the world, forfeits his title, and refuses to fight in Vietnam.
1972 Olympics- Black September invades the Olympic Village and kidnaps and murders a dozen Israeli athletes, starting a war in the East
2002 NBA- The referees and the NBA rig Game 6, and cost the Sacramento Kings the series against the LA Lakers, since LA would draw higher TV ratings
30 years (1960-90)- Eastern European countries cheat in most sports to win medals.  It's later revealed that nearly all athletes from these regions were on performance enhancing drugs.  The motive was to prove Communist countries were athletically superior to democratic countries.
1972 Hockey Super Series- With the Russians in control of the series, Canadian coaches give orders to Bobby Clarke to injure Kharmalov, the Wayne Gretzky of the Soviet Union.  Kharmalov has his ankle broken, and it is the turning point of the series, as Canada wins the next 3 games.
1976 Olympic Boycott- African countries boycott Montreal Olympics since South Africa (with Apartheid) was allowed to compete.
1980 Olympic Boycott- US boycotts Olympics due to the Afghanistan invasion
1984 Olympic Boycott- USSR boycotts the LA Olympics as revenge.
MLB Baseball- cases of throwing a World Series at the beginning of the century.  At the end of the century, most stars would compete in home run contests were all using steroids.
1987 WJC- Canada plays Russia in the final.  Canada needs to win by 4 goals to win the Gold, while the Soviets are eliminated.  A Soviet player leaves the bench and starts a brawl that ends the game.  It's argued the purpose of the Soviets rushing from the bench was to get Canada disqualified, as the Russians had nothing to lose.
Every single Olympics and World Cup Soccer tourneys- widespread corruption in awarding the games to various cities
2002- figure skating controversies (bribery alleged).
1994 Colombia- Andres Escobar is assassinated by a Drug Cartel for accidentally scoring on his own net.  The cartel had bet heavily on Colombia.
1988 Olympics- Park Si Han of South Korea "wins" a match against Roy Jones Jr. after the Koreans bribe the judges into voting for the Korean.
Soccer- cases of countries going to war over soccer results.

It late and I could think of several more if I had the time, but sports and politics are intertwined.

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swansong
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« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2017, 06:24:08 AM »

Did you miss the part where I said nothing is ever absolute?

I just happen to think that calling people "uneducated" because they hold an opinion that has nothing to do with their level of education and everything to do with tradition/belief/indoctrination is simply dismissive. It's the same type of attitude that labels critical thinkers as "crazy" or "conspiracy theorists" as a way of dismissing their arguments without having to refute them.

There are a lot of pretty stupid, well educated, people. I guarantee a lot of them and the uneducated voted for Hillary. Frankly anyone that buys into the US 2 party system is pretty "uneducated" in my book.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2017, 06:50:23 AM »

Unfortunately, sports and politics have gone hand and hand since the beginning of time.  Just look at most of the Olympic games, the World Cup, etc. 

Cuth or Suits once let slip on air that there's 3 things they can't talk about: religion, politics, and I can't remember the third.  And they all pretty much stick to it (with minor slips maybe twice a year).  CFL/TSN historically does a decent job of keeping it just football.

Even if you want to say CFL/TSN cast is political on the air, who cares, can't this forum be non-political?  I know I don't come here to debate politics with Winnipeggers.  Plenty of other forums on the net for that.  I get my political fix elsewhere.  BB forum is for planning our GC2017 celebrations!  (Oh, and complaining about Roc or Hurl.)
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BomberPride
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« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2017, 11:51:56 AM »

TRIGGER WARNING

1) First and foremost - Military appreciation nights ARE NOT for recruiting purposes. Until you have served overseas, or any number of years in the military, I would really appreciate keeping the "guarding poppy fields in Afghanistan" TO YOURSELF. Families have lost sons and daughters, fathers and mothers over there. Have some bloody sensitivity and respect for those who have/are serving. THAT is why there's military appreciation nights.

2) Unless you need your hat to properly salute during the anthem (like the military NEEDS to do), take it off. It's two minutes. I promise you'll live.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2017, 01:11:46 PM »

Is kneeling or sitting during the anthem disrespectful? First of all, disrespectful to whom and why? I'm not sure how it could be disrespectful to me personally and I'm not sure why I should feel disrespected even though certain people seem to think I should. Is it because I stand at attention at national anthems, so, therefore, those that don't have personally disrespected me? I like Canada. Does that mean I should feel slighted if someone else doesn't? Some people would have you think that. My question is why would you let them? Is it disrespectful to 'the country in general'? Possibly, but countries are simply landmasses which in and of itself, can't be offended. Countries are made up of people, which brings the question back around, to why should I feel offended?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 01:15:31 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
Jesse
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« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2017, 04:31:42 PM »

Is kneeling or sitting during the anthem disrespectful? First of all, disrespectful to whom and why? I'm not sure how it could be disrespectful to me personally and I'm not sure why I should feel disrespected even though certain people seem to think I should. Is it because I stand at attention at national anthems, so, therefore, those that don't have personally disrespected me? I like Canada. Does that mean I should feel slighted if someone else doesn't? Some people would have you think that. My question is why would you let them? Is it disrespectful to 'the country in general'? Possibly, but countries are simply landmasses which in and of itself, can't be offended. Countries are made up of people, which brings the question back around, to why should I feel offended?

Right?

For me, I'm always curious who people tend to tie this to the military. Even if I accept that people do take standing during the anthem personally, why do people automatically go to the "it's disrespectful to those who have served" argument? Why do people serve if they are going to come back and have it dictated to people when and where they get to enjoy their freedoms?
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jets4life
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« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2017, 04:37:38 PM »

Right?

For me, I'm always curious who people tend to tie this to the military. Even if I accept that people do take standing during the anthem personally, why do people automatically go to the "it's disrespectful to those who have served" argument? Why do people serve if they are going to come back and have it dictated to people when and where they get to enjoy their freedoms?

Incidentally, standing during the anthem in the NHL was done for ages.  According to reports, it was only mandatory in the NFL beginning in 2009, and it had strong ties to the American military.



"It's a tribute to the NFL's ability to drape itself in the flag that nobody even realizes that ? prior to 2009 ? players being on the field for the national anthem wasn't even standard practice.


NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy confirmed this morning the practice began in 2009, adding, 'As you know, the NFL has a long tradition of patriotism. Players are encouraged but not required to stand for the anthem.'

Add in the fact that the NFL received millions of taxpayer dollars from the Department of Defense and the National Guard for patriotic displays, and it puts the entire Kaepernick hullabaloo in a different light
. "Fans should have confidence that their hometown heroes are being honored because of their honorable military service, not as a marketing ploy," Senator John McCain, the Vietnam War veteran and P.O.W., saidin a statement last year coinciding with "Tackling Paid Patriotism," a joint oversight report released by McCain and his fellow Arizona Republican Senator John Flake."


source: https://sports.vice.com/en_ca/article/yp89dj/stephen-a-smith-points-out-nfls-paid-patriotism-problem
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Doublezero
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« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2017, 08:35:25 PM »

Why does there need to be any anthem prior to team sporting events at all? What is the purpose of it? Who started it? They don't play any anthem before a pro tennis match or F1 racing. You don't have an anthem before a golf tournament. You don't have it prior to other entertainment events such as a a rock concert or the ballet or symphony or theatre. Why not just eliminate the anthem entirely?
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Colton
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« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2017, 09:05:42 PM »

Why does there need to be any anthem prior to team sporting events at all? What is the purpose of it? Who started it? They don't play any anthem before a pro tennis match or F1 racing. You don't have an anthem before a golf tournament. You don't have it prior to other entertainment events such as a a rock concert or the ballet or symphony or theatre. Why not just eliminate the anthem entirely?

I'm in agreement with this. I think it's fitting during international events where athletes/teams compete for their country, but to me it's out of place at CFL/NFL/NHL/etc games.
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swansong
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« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2017, 09:20:14 PM »

TRIGGER WARNING

1) First and foremost - Military appreciation nights ARE NOT for recruiting purposes. Until you have served overseas, or any number of years in the military, I would really appreciate keeping the "guarding poppy fields in Afghanistan" TO YOURSELF. Families have lost sons and daughters, fathers and mothers over there. Have some bloody sensitivity and respect for those who have/are serving. THAT is why there's military appreciation nights.

2) Unless you need your hat to properly salute during the anthem (like the military NEEDS to do), take it off. It's two minutes. I promise you'll live.

I guarantee that Drs, nurses, personal care home workers and teachers have done more for Canada, our families and children in the last 40 years than any soldier but oddly we don't hold appreciation nights for them. I don't know about Canada but in the US those "appreciation" events are paid for by the military. If it didn't benefit them do you think they'd pay for it?

The Taliban in Afghanistan was not an issue for the US til they refused to allow a pipeline to run through the country carrying oil from the former Soviet Union. Oddly enough after the US invaded they installed a former exec, Karzai, from Unocal, (the company that built the pipeline) to run the country. Pretty coincidental.

Not to mention the Taliban had basically eradicated poppy production in that country. Now? It's at it's highest level ever. Perfect for a country that uses the CIA to sell drugs to finance it's wars.

We invaded a country that did nothing to us . . . support cultivation of drugs . . . are pillaging their natural resources and killing their citizens but I should just shut up and respect them? Hooray for freedom!!!

Sorry but I have more respect for them when they assist with things like natural disasters.

Btw . . . who's really "triggered" here?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 10:54:47 PM by swansong » Logged
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« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2017, 02:10:56 AM »

It's fine to discuss the merits of kneeling or not kneeling for national anthems.  Some posts have come dangerously close to a political discussion and that is against the rules here.  Just be conscious of that when posting.
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Tiger
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« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2017, 03:39:57 AM »

It's fine to discuss the merits of kneeling or not kneeling for national anthems.  Some posts have come dangerously close to a political discussion and that is against the rules here.  Just be conscious of that when posting.

Unfortunately it is a complicated political aspect of sports that has been further politicized in the current atmosphere by all Americans. Lets keep it a US problem. It's all about respect by all parties (or a lack thereof).  Let's continue to be respectful of all here in Canada.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 03:41:46 AM by Tiger » Logged

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