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Author Topic: CFL Trade Deadline...  (Read 3973 times)
The Zipp
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Who gives a flying Buck...


« on: September 11, 2017, 06:46:09 PM »

Trade deadline is one month away....Wednesday October 11, 2017 at 3:59pm ET
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kkc60
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 10:35:56 PM »

Only teams I'm expecting to even consider trades are Sask and all the East
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Tiger
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2017, 05:12:09 AM »

Only teams I'm expecting to even consider trades are Sask and all the East

Saskatchewan looks good and NFL guys seems to be coming back.  We'll see.  I think so ever the team is, if you make an upgrade at the right price why not?
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kkc60
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2017, 11:46:14 AM »

Saskatchewan looks good and NFL guys seems to be coming back.  We'll see.  I think so ever the team is, if you make an upgrade at the right price why not?
I hope we do something but I'm just assuming sask if they are outta playoff contention and/or because Jones loves to trade
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GCn17
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2017, 11:55:32 AM »

Only teams I'm expecting to even consider trades are Sask and all the East

I think Edmonton will trade Franklin to the East. In fact, I would wager on it.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 12:41:04 PM »

I think Edmonton will trade Franklin to the East. In fact, I would wager on it.

I agree, but not before the GC.  With the hit Reilly took last game, and watching Harris and Glenn go down, no way Edm is dumb enough to trade away Franklin regardless what is coming back in the trade.
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GCn17
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2017, 12:49:00 PM »

I agree, but not before the GC.  With the hit Reilly took last game, and watching Harris and Glenn go down, no way Edm is dumb enough to trade away Franklin regardless what is coming back in the trade.

It's called smart asset management, and there are a lot ways they would trade away Franklin before the trade deadline. Same way we maximized value on Willy last year. Both TO, HAM, and MTL are all, for different reasons, teams that are likely looking at changing up their QB position in the near future. I could see any of them swapping out one of their current QBs to satisfy Edm's need for a backup plus paying handsomely to get Franklin.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 12:55:30 PM by GCn17 » Logged

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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 12:57:30 PM »

I agree, but not before the GC.  With the hit Reilly took last game, and watching Harris and Glenn go down, no way Edm is dumb enough to trade away Franklin regardless what is coming back in the trade.

Everyone is tradable. No one wouldn't be moved for the right price. Reilly is as durable as it gets in this league and if the right offer comes along, you can bet they'll take it. After all, the odds that Reilly makes it through the season without serious injury increases each game he finishes. Come October, it's even more likely. A good back up isn't worth anything if it's never used.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 01:05:47 PM »

Everyone is tradable. No one wouldn't be moved for the right price. Reilly is as durable as it gets in this league and if the right offer comes along, you can bet they'll take it. After all, the odds that Reilly makes it through the season without serious injury increases each game he finishes. Come October, it's even more likely. A good back up isn't worth anything if it's never used.

Yeah, insurance is just a waste if you never use it... c'mon man.  What possibly could they get in return that would be worth taking the chance of having to finish the year/playoffs without a QB? 

Collaros to SSK for Glenn and a 1st rounder, then flip Glenn and SSK 1st rounder and Hamilton's first rounder to EDM for Franklin... even that would be questionable return.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 01:29:32 PM »

Yeah, insurance is just a waste if you never use it... c'mon man.  What possibly could they get in return that would be worth taking the chance of having to finish the year/playoffs without a QB? 

Collaros to SSK for Glenn and a 1st rounder, then flip Glenn and SSK 1st rounder and Hamilton's first rounder to EDM for Franklin... even that would be questionable return.

Why is the concept so hard to understand? Teams trade players who they know they won't be able to resign all the time before trade deadlines.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2017, 01:40:17 PM »

Why is the concept so hard to understand? Teams trade players who they know they won't be able to resign all the time before trade deadlines.

They don't trade vital players while they are in a playoff hunt.  Ever.  And if you don't think a top notch backup QB is vital, look to last year, that vaunted trade for Willy doesn't happen without Glenn (ewww) being available.  Yes, Walters thought twice about trading Willy for Heath and a first rounder for fear of not having a solid backup to Nichols.  He would have been willing to continue to pay Willy to sit on the bench, just in case.

As has been said before, trading Reilly might be as likely than Franklin...  meaning not likely at all...
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The Zipp
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Who gives a flying Buck...


« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2017, 01:40:32 PM »

Why is the concept so hard to understand? Teams trade players who they know they won't be able to resign all the time before trade deadlines.

QB might be a bit different - it is a risk to unload Franklin before the deadline - depends on how confident they are in whoever their #3 QB is, how healthy Reilly is and how much risk they want to incur as they push towards the playoffs.

If they don't trade him before the deadline - they will do it after the season for sure so they can get something...

or maybe they trade Reilly after the season??
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GCn17
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« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2017, 02:21:08 PM »

QB might be a bit different - it is a risk to unload Franklin before the deadline - depends on how confident they are in whoever their #3 QB is, how healthy Reilly is and how much risk they want to incur as they push towards the playoffs.

If they don't trade him before the deadline - they will do it after the season for sure so they can get something...

or maybe they trade Reilly after the season??


So long as they get a viable backup in return then Edmonton has basically eliminated the risk of moving him. There are many trade options that would work for them. We moved our only viable backup in Willy last year, and traded for KG as insurance. It was easy peasy.
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GCn17
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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 02:22:22 PM »

Yeah, insurance is just a waste if you never use it... c'mon man.  What possibly could they get in return that would be worth taking the chance of having to finish the year/playoffs without a QB? 

Collaros to SSK for Glenn and a 1st rounder, then flip Glenn and SSK 1st rounder and Hamilton's first rounder to EDM for Franklin... even that would be questionable return.

The flaw fatale of your logic on this issue is that you are assuming that Franklin is the only possible viable back up for Edmonton. Just a purely false assumption.
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thunderNlightning
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« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 02:40:30 PM »

I wonder if TSN will run a 6 hour long trade deadline special?
🤣🤣🤣
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Pigskin
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« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 02:40:38 PM »

I don't Franklin is going anywhere. I think Edmonton will trade MR at the end of the year. Franklin is a young stud QB that has a lot more miles left in the tank.
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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2017, 02:52:33 PM »

I don't Franklin is going anywhere. I think Edmonton will trade MR at the end of the year. Franklin is a young stud QB that has a lot more miles left in the tank.

MR isn't going anywhere
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theaardvark
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« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2017, 03:39:41 PM »

So long as they get a viable backup in return then Edmonton has basically eliminated the risk of moving him. There are many trade options that would work for them. We moved our only viable backup in Willy last year, and traded for KG as insurance. It was easy peasy.

The flaw fatale of your logic on this issue is that you are assuming that Franklin is the only possible viable back up for Edmonton. Just a purely false assumption.

As I said, unless a suitable backup is obtained, no amount of DP's and fringe players are worth trading a stud QB for.  And what backup is available that is anywhere near as good as Franklin?  The fact that you are suggesting teams trade for Franklin so that he can START for them says it all.

Remember, Edm has a slew of players coming off the DL, and no place to put the guys that filled in for them during their 7-0 start.  So its not like they need roster help.  And they just got back Walker.  Its not like they NEED to trade Franklin.  His SMS hit is small, and he is BY FAR the best insurance policy in the league.

So, why downgrade your backup QB position while making a potential opponent straonger?  What is the return?  And if Reilly has a career ending injury between now and the GC, who will be kicking themselves?  For draft picks?  When you will get the same, OR MORE, after the GC?  AND still have the best insurance policy?

Lulay, out for the year.  Harris - 2 to 6 weeks.  Glenn - week to week, not likely this week.  All in one weekend.  And you want to trade away Franklin for a what?



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gbill2004
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« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2017, 03:52:14 PM »

I wonder if TSN will run a 6 hour long trade deadline special?
🤣🤣🤣
They'd have more to talk about than the NHL trade deadline. 
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2017, 04:10:40 PM »

If Reilly goes down, is Franklin really going to lead the team to a Grey Cup? The guy has thrown 38 passes in two years. I think some people might be overvaluing him somewhat. He's probably the best prospect in the league, but backup quarterbacks don't lead teams to championships (or they rarely do, anyway).

If you can get a first round pick, a great import and another pick/national for him, that's fantastic. The longer Edmonton waits and the closer he gets to free agency, the less a trade is worth. Unless you're keeping him and moving Reilly, make a deal.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2017, 04:21:27 PM »

If Reilly goes down, is Franklin really going to lead the team to a Grey Cup? The guy has thrown 38 passes in two years. I think some people might be overvaluing him somewhat. He's probably the best prospect in the league, but backup quarterbacks don't lead teams to championships (or they rarely do, anyway).

If you can get a first round pick, a great import and another pick/national for him, that's fantastic. The longer Edmonton waits and the closer he gets to free agency, the less a trade is worth.

Yes.  A guy with 2+ years in their system is far more likely to lead the team to a grey cup than any other player available out there.  Period.

He is a player that they recruited, so have no "investment" in him that they "need" to recover, and who, if traded, would be slated to be that team's starter.  And then replace him with?  Whose the new backup that may be called upon to lead the team into the playoffs?  Someone better than Dinwiddie I hope, you remember that scenario, right?

What would Edmonton do with the picks / players coming back?  They already have an issue with roster size, and fitting returning players onto it. 

If you think that a guy who has never been a starter is going to fetch "a first round pick, a great import and another pick/national", especially after that same trade cost Barker his job, well...  and who has those assets to trade? 

After the season, I'm sure Franklin will garner at least a first rounder. 


Reilly:
YEAR
   TEAM GP    COMP ATT    YDS    TD    INT    AVG
2011   BC    1    1    2    12    0    0    6.0
2012   BC    6    53    74    684    4    2    9.2

Franklin:
 YEAR
   TEAM GP    COMP   ATT    YDS    TD    INT    AVG
2015   EDM    7    84    133    973    6    1    7.3
2016   EDM    2    19    24    334    4    0    13.9
2017   EDM    2    11    14    108    1    0    7.7

Buono didn't trade Reilly during the season... and he KNEW he was going to lose him.  But hey, what does he know about being a GM.


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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2017, 04:37:19 PM »

Yes.  A guy with 2+ years in their system is far more likely to lead the team to a grey cup than any other player available out there.  Period.

He is a player that they recruited, so have no "investment" in him that they "need" to recover, and who, if traded, would be slated to be that team's starter.  And then replace him with?  Whose the new backup that may be called upon to lead the team into the playoffs?  Someone better than Dinwiddie I hope, you remember that scenario, right?

What would Edmonton do with the picks / players coming back?  They already have an issue with roster size, and fitting returning players onto it. 

If you think that a guy who has never been a starter is going to fetch "a first round pick, a great import and another pick/national", especially after that same trade cost Barker his job, well...  and who has those assets to trade? 

After the season, I'm sure Franklin will garner at least a first rounder. 


Reilly:
YEAR
   TEAM GP    COMP ATT    YDS    TD    INT    AVG
2011   BC    1    1    2    12    0    0    6.0
2012   BC    6    53    74    684    4    2    9.2

Franklin:
 YEAR
   TEAM GP    COMP   ATT    YDS    TD    INT    AVG
2015   EDM    7    84    133    973    6    1    7.3
2016   EDM    2    19    24    334    4    0    13.9
2017   EDM    2    11    14    108    1    0    7.7

Buono didn't trade Reilly during the season... and he KNEW he was going to lose him.  But hey, what does he know about being a GM.




You base your positions on such exceptionally strange logic it makes my brain hurt.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2017, 04:48:08 PM »

Really?  I thought it was quite self evident what my point is...

For a trade to make sense:

You must get, in return, at least what you give up.  No amount of DP's will make up for having to play games with a lesser option than Franklin should Reilly get hurt.  Dinwiddie. 

And if the end the season with a healthy Reilly and decide to part with Franklin, they will get *something* for him.  And depending on how the market is for starting QB's at that time, it could be something substantial.  And, right now, with the performance of Collaros, Durant and Jennings, and the actual/potential health issues with Lulay, Ray, Glenn, Harris...  Franklin will still be a hot commodity after the GC.
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GCn17
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« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2017, 06:39:52 PM »

Really?  I thought it was quite self evident what my point is...

For a trade to make sense:

You must get, in return, at least what you give up.  No amount of DP's will make up for having to play games with a lesser option than Franklin should Reilly get hurt.  Dinwiddie. 

And if the end the season with a healthy Reilly and decide to part with Franklin, they will get *something* for him.  And depending on how the market is for starting QB's at that time, it could be something substantial.  And, right now, with the performance of Collaros, Durant and Jennings, and the actual/potential health issues with Lulay, Ray, Glenn, Harris...  Franklin will still be a hot commodity after the GC.

As a GM you don't have the luxury of thinking only in the here and now. That's how boneheads like Brendan Taman get themselves fired. The Eskimos may temporarily lose by moving Franklin but if they get what he is worth they will make a move that helps them a lot more in the future. Your logic is flawed because you are thinking of it only in the present. There is a great deal to be gained by moving him now.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2017, 06:55:03 PM »

As a GM you don't have the luxury of thinking only in the here and now. That's how boneheads like Brendan Taman get themselves fired. The Eskimos may temporarily lose by moving Franklin but if they get what he is worth they will make a move that helps them a lot more in the future. Your logic is flawed because you are thinking of it only in the present. There is a great deal to be gained by moving him now.

You think that there will be much more value for him now than after the GC?  When other GM's are looking at the future, and what options there will be out there at QB?

Who will be the next starter in the CFL?  Is there *anyone* other than Franklin that is pushing for a starters spot?

Adams?  Masoli?  Davis?  Willy?  Tate?  Fajardo?  Nope... none of them are in the same conversation as Franklin, right?  Otherwise their names would be in this conversation.

Yet Mtl, Tor, Ham and SSK should be in the hunt for a starter, and we don't know what the status of Harris is, or if Jennings will be "the one" in BC with Lulay gone. 

I'm thinking that the market *after* the GC might actually be better than before it. 

Regardless, there will be an asset value for Franklin after the GC, so now the question is, how much more can you get now, how does that affect your depth, and does it actually hurt your chance of getting to the GC (Edm *might* end up crossing over now, so trading to the East might bite you big time)

I just don't see trading depth and insurance at the most vital position to be a wise decision.  Even getting a decent backup in return will be a big downgrade, as he will have to learn the system and players.  Even if they got Ray in return, I'm not convinced its a good move.
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Ridermania
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« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2017, 07:35:56 PM »

Esks are NOT trading Franklin until after the season is over!
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bluebeard
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« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2017, 08:07:39 PM »

Esks are NOT trading Franklin until after the season is over!

If I was Franklin, I would play out my option and let the teams start bidding up for my services.  There are lots of teams out there that would do this.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2017, 08:47:45 PM »

If I was Franklin, I would play out my option and let the teams start bidding up for my services.  There are lots of teams out there that would do this.
Yep, I'd expect have the league to be interested in Franklin:

Sask
Toronto
Montreal
Hamilton
Maybe even BC
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theaardvark
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« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2017, 12:08:35 AM »

If I was Franklin, I would play out my option and let the teams start bidding up for my services.  There are lots of teams out there that would do this.

He can't talk to anyone until his contract lapses.  In the meantime, Edm can trade him anywhere, and that team has the ability to negotiate first.  You can bet the offer will be pretty substantial, and unless he wants to do the Muamba tour, he will probably sign with the team that actually traded for him, that wants to give him a starting spot.  Like Reilly and Willy...
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Jesse
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« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2017, 11:04:16 AM »

He can't talk to anyone until his contract lapses.  In the meantime, Edm can trade him anywhere, and that team has the ability to negotiate first.  You can bet the offer will be pretty substantial, and unless he wants to do the Muamba tour, he will probably sign with the team that actually traded for him, that wants to give him a starting spot.  Like Reilly and Willy...

He doesn't have to do a Muamba tour to go to free agency. He simply has to have his agent receive offered and make his decision.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2017, 12:47:43 PM »

He doesn't have to do a Muamba tour to go to free agency. He simply has to have his agent receive offered and make his decision.

Muamba didn't have to do the Muamba tour either... but he did...
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GCn17
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« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2017, 02:17:24 PM »

He can't talk to anyone until his contract lapses.  In the meantime, Edm can trade him anywhere, and that team has the ability to negotiate first.  You can bet the offer will be pretty substantial, and unless he wants to do the Muamba tour, he will probably sign with the team that actually traded for him, that wants to give him a starting spot.  Like Reilly and Willy...

If he is traded, there is a big advantage to the team who has him. They have a one month window in the offseason to use up all leftover cap space as a signing bonus to him and have the whole rest of the season to make sure that it is a significant amount. If say Toronto traded for him now, they could create a 200k in cap space for season's end and pay it as a signing bonus in December against this year's cap. That automatically puts them at a 200k advantage over any other team in a bidding war. Just an arbitrary number, but there is certainly a big advantage to a team in trading for his services now. Especially when you know the market will be heated for him.

Don't think for 5 seconds that teams aren't back channeling right now to find out what kind of numbers are in play. If no one trades for Franklin right now, it is simply because the back channels have revealed that Franklin already has decided where he is going.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 02:19:36 PM by GCn17 » Logged

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theaardvark
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« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2017, 02:26:10 PM »

If he is traded, there is a big advantage to the team who has him. They have a one month window in the offseason to use up all leftover cap space as a signing bonus to him and have the whole rest of the season to make sure that it is a significant amount. If say Toronto traded for him now, they could create a 200k in cap space for season's end and pay it as a signing bonus in December against this year's cap. That automatically puts them at a 200k advantage over any other team in a bidding war. Just an arbitrary number, but there is certainly a big advantage to a team in trading for his services now. Especially when you know the market will be heated for him.

Don't think for 5 seconds that teams aren't back channeling right now to find out what kind of numbers are in play. If no one trades for Franklin right now, it is simply because the back channels have revealed that Franklin already has decided where he is going.

Yup... and trading him after the GC has all those advantages for the team trading for him, while keeping his as insurance for EDM.  Cap space can be used for a month after the GC, so trading him pre-GC does not make any sense at all.  Especially to a team you may end up facing in the playoffs.  Once EDM is mathematically eliminated, then all bets are off.  But I don't see that happening...
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GCn17
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« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2017, 02:27:27 PM »

Yup... and trading him after the GC has all those advantages for the team trading for him, while keeping his as insurance for EDM.  Cap space can be used for a month after the GC, so trading him pre-GC does not make any sense at all.  Especially to a team you may end up facing in the playoffs.  Once EDM is mathematically eliminated, then all bets are off.  But I don't see that happening...

The advantage is what you will get in return. Far less after the GC.
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Sammy225
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« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2017, 02:30:11 PM »

I think Franklin will be handled like Collaros and Willy.... Keep him till the end of the season incase MR goes down, then trade his right in the off season for a late rounder so said team can negotiate a contract before hand.
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GCn17
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« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2017, 02:34:10 PM »

I think Franklin will be handled like Collaros and Willy.... Keep him till the end of the season incase MR goes down, then trade his right in the off season for a late rounder so said team can negotiate a contract before hand.

Collaros wasn't traded in the offseason, he was signed by Hammy as a FA and has been actively shopped around for a couple weeks now. Willy wasn't traded in offseason he was cut in camp and traded by us midseason.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2017, 03:00:16 PM »

Collaros wasn't traded in the offseason, he was signed by Hammy as a FA and has been actively shopped around for a couple weeks now. Willy wasn't traded in offseason he was cut in camp and traded by us midseason.

Willy was traded TO us in the offseason (for Jade), whereupon we signed him, albeit without the advantage of the previous years SMS overage that would have been available had we traded for him before year end instead of days before FA starting. 
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M.O.A.B.
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« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2017, 02:34:44 AM »

Would love to see us trade for a BJ Cunningham or an Ernest Jackson.

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The Zipp
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Who gives a flying Buck...


« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2017, 06:03:56 PM »

less than an hour left....
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gbill2004
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« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2017, 06:09:08 PM »

less than an hour left....
Good thing TSN doesn't do a CFL Trade Deadline special! 
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"There's always next year."


« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2017, 06:19:03 PM »

Would love to see us trade for a BJ Cunningham or an Ernest Jackson.

Sutton wouldn't be a bad piece if Flanders is out for a while.
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2017, 06:22:49 PM »

Would love to see us trade for a BJ Cunningham or an Ernest Jackson.


cunningham looked like garbage last week. No thanks
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bowlerdude
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« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2017, 06:35:13 PM »

cunningham looked like garbage last week. No thanks

True, but even Derel Walker looked like garbage in that one. I don't think the monsoon game should be used to evaluate receivers much, other than confirming Zylstra is stupidly good.
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GCn17
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« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2017, 06:40:53 PM »

True, but even Derel Walker looked like garbage in that one. I don't think the monsoon game should be used to evaluate receivers much, other than confirming Zylstra is stupidly good.

I really hope Zylstra finishes strong so that it guarantees his NFL shot next year.
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Darwinismyhomeboy
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« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2017, 06:41:46 PM »

What a super exciting day every year.  I cannot believe all the action!!!
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The Zipp
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« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2017, 07:14:32 PM »

What a super exciting day every year.  I cannot believe all the action!!!


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

unless there was a late breaking trade still to be registered and announced it was a giant flop for exciting trade activity.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2017, 07:15:57 PM »

Another pretty typical CFL trade deadline day has come and gone.
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2017, 08:51:58 PM »

Guess the ALS wanted high picks for old guys..
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2017, 08:54:21 PM »

Guess the ALS wanted high picks for old guys..

Or they wanted Reed's replacement to be able to decide who they wanted to keep for next season.
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dd
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« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2017, 09:31:39 PM »

I really hope Zylstra finishes strong so that it guarantees his NFL shot next year.
I m hoping he tries it and if he doesn't make it, wants to stay closer to home and decides to become a BB, that would be Awesome!!
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bluebeard
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« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2017, 09:34:46 PM »

Or they wanted Reed's replacement to be able to decide who they wanted to keep for next season.
Don't count on it as the owners don't seem to have a clue.  I can only hope that they will come to their senses as Montreal sports fans are fickle.
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gbill2004
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« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2017, 09:37:07 PM »

Don't count on it as the owners don't seem to have a clue.  I can only hope that they will come to their senses as Montreal sports fans are fickle.
They may not have a clue but they do get involved in football Ops. The owner hired Chaps as head coach while Popp was still GM.
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dd
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« Reply #52 on: October 12, 2017, 01:56:45 AM »

Or they wanted Reed's replacement to be able to decide who they wanted to keep for next season.
Ya, this guy will be the first casualty this off season. I can't believe they hired him to begin with
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Pigskin
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« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2017, 02:14:31 PM »

No trades at all?
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #54 on: October 12, 2017, 03:26:54 PM »

No trades at all?

Absolutely nothing.
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BomberPride
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« Reply #55 on: October 12, 2017, 03:31:10 PM »

Wow. Absolute quiet day.

I guess after last years trades, how do you top it? lol
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