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Author Topic: NFL under way - Panthers vs Broncos  (Read 8781 times)
Old Rusty
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« on: September 09, 2016, 02:56:12 AM »

Don't know if anyone caught this game.  Denver won 21-20.  They were quite lucky in that the Carolina kicker missed in the final seconds.

Cam Newton got a crown of the helmet hit to the chin in the final minutes.  Can't believe he wasn't concussed.  Dirty hit... they call it a mere personal foul. 

Unfair and a lousy call in what was otherwise a really good game. 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 02:59:05 AM by Old Rusty » Logged

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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2016, 03:25:06 AM »

Awesome game! Great way to kick off the season. I'm not a huge fan of either team but Denver winning surprised me. Their rookie QB looked pretty decent and the pass rush got to Cam Newton in a big way. Denver looks like they'll be a contender again.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2016, 03:39:53 AM »

Don't know if anyone caught this game.  Denver won 21-20.  They were quite lucky in that the Carolina kicker missed in the final seconds.

Cam Newton got a crown of the helmet hit to the chin in the final minutes.  Can't believe he wasn't concussed.  Dirty hit... they call it a mere personal foul. 

Unfair and a lousy call in what was otherwise a really good game. 


Worse than that, he was obviously in distress, and should have been put into concussion protocol.  But they left him in there to finish the game. 
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2016, 11:58:45 AM »

Worse than that, he was obviously in distress, and should have been put into concussion protocol.  But they left him in there to finish the game. 

...How was it obvious, specifically? I watched the entire game, he certainly cooled off in the second half, but other than some rushed passes that were not typical Cam Newton passes he didn't seem distressed at all. He was running with confidence and authority until the final drive and wasn't sliding either.

The helmet to helmet shots looked bad, there were a couple, but nothing from Cam Newton made it 'obvious' that he was in 'distress'. In fact, it looked like his ankle/lower leg was bothering him more than anything else, sustained after his feet got caught under him on one of those hits.

« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 12:01:14 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
blue_gold_84
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2016, 12:15:13 PM »

The missed helmet-to-helmet hits were pretty brutal. Not a bad way to kick off the 2016 NFL season otherwise.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2016, 12:27:22 PM »

...How was it obvious, specifically? I watched the entire game, he certainly cooled off in the second half, but other than some rushed passes that were not typical Cam Newton passes he didn't seem distressed at all. He was running with confidence and authority until the final drive and wasn't sliding either.

The helmet to helmet shots looked bad, there were a couple, but nothing from Cam Newton made it 'obvious' that he was in 'distress'. In fact, it looked like his ankle/lower leg was bothering him more than anything else, sustained after his feet got caught under him on one of those hits.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdnfjZj5Gg0

Listen to the commentators, watch the video, "writhing on the ground", if there hadn't been multiple penalties they had to work out, no way he makes it back top the LOS to take a snap in time and they have to call to the sidelines for assistance, and no time outs left...
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The Zipp
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2016, 12:43:52 PM »

I think distress might be exagerrrated but the last shot to the head on the final drive was brutal...it seems that EVERYONE including the announcers knew he was "out on his feet" to some degree....everyone except the medical folks who looked at the video...this deadspin article sums it up pretty good...

http://deadspin.com/cam-newtons-night-was-hard-to-watch-1786426230  Cam doesn't remember going through concussion protocol...or at least the questions they asked casue not sure he went through the protocol - which seems strange in itself..


I love football, I love the NFL, i will watch football over hockey most days...but unless they do something about stuff like this someone is going to die on the field.






« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 12:52:26 PM by The Zipp » Logged
blue_or_die
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2016, 01:00:31 PM »

Pretty despicable re: the helmet hits. Cam Newton is my favourite athlete playing for my favourite NFL team, so I hated seeing that. I can't believe he got up and got the team into FG range.

The 'ol icing the kicker worked, as Gano made a tough kick as the TO was called.

Tough way to lose. Credit to the Denver D, who plays like a swarm of hornets who had their nest pissed on. Carolina D was great too. Kuech wouldn't allow anything up the middle and their LBs were always in good pass protection. That big rec Benjamin...wow are we happy to have him back this year! Reminds me of Megatron. He also reminds me of Calvin Johnson.
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Old Rusty
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2016, 01:01:05 PM »

...How was it obvious, specifically? I watched the entire game, he certainly cooled off in the second half, but other than some rushed passes that were not typical Cam Newton passes he didn't seem distressed at all. He was running with confidence and authority until the final drive and wasn't sliding either.

The helmet to helmet shots looked bad, there were a couple, but nothing from Cam Newton made it 'obvious' that he was in 'distress'. In fact, it looked like his ankle/lower leg was bothering him more than anything else, sustained after his feet got caught under him on one of those hits.

It was the last series, final drive, perhaps the 3rd or 4th last play in the game.  Newton was crown helmeted on the chin.  He was groggy, in pain, and slow to get up while on his knees.
He was definitely hurting!
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Old Rusty
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2016, 01:02:29 PM »

Pretty despicable re: the helmet hits. Cam Newton is my favourite athlete playing for my favourite NFL team, so I hated seeing that. I can't believe he got up and got the team into FG range.

The 'ol icing the kicker worked, as Gano made a tough kick as the TO was called.

Tough way to lose. Credit to the Denver D, who plays like a swarm of hornets who had their nest pissed on. Carolina D was great too. Kuech wouldn't allow anything up the middle and their LBs were always in good pass protection. That big rec Benjamin...wow are we happy to have him back this year! Reminds me of Megatron. He also reminds me of Calvin Johnson.

This guy is a total beast.  I can't believe how huge he is.
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"Lets see if we can hit thirty" - Ming the Merciless (aka. my neighbour) while enjoying one of my beers.

"Suffering Mother of Moses." - Anonymous fan watching 3rd quarter of 2018 Western conference final
The Fresh Prince Of Belair, MB
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2016, 01:08:23 PM »

I was watching at the gym with no sound, did Newton also get called for intentional on that play, because after the hit and everything was settled the graphic showed 2nd and 10?
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The Zipp
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2016, 01:15:07 PM »

I was watching at the gym with no sound, did Newton also get called for intentional on that play, because after the hit and everything was settled the graphic showed 2nd and 10?

yah...seems a bit unfair but that is the rules...
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2016, 01:17:55 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdnfjZj5Gg0

Listen to the commentators, watch the video, "writhing on the ground", if there hadn't been multiple penalties they had to work out, no way he makes it back top the LOS to take a snap in time and they have to call to the sidelines for assistance, and no time outs left...

That's true. He got popped pretty good there. Although he got up and looked fine afterwards...
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theaardvark
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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2016, 02:12:10 PM »

I was watching at the gym with no sound, did Newton also get called for intentional on that play, because after the hit and everything was settled the graphic showed 2nd and 10?

Offsetting.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2016, 02:14:19 PM »

That's true. He got popped pretty good there. Although he got up and looked fine afterwards...

And if that's the new "concussion protocol", then we're in for a disaster soon...

Newton plays a different QB game, for sure.  He's a freakish specimen.  And because he's so big, he's less likely to get the roughing the passer calls, etc. 

But that shouldn't preclude him from concussion protocols.
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Colton
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« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2016, 04:21:29 PM »

I couldn't believe he was allowed to continue to play. I thought the NFL hired independent doctors to stop games and pull players out for this reason. In my opinion, leaving him in there was dangerous

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Jesse
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« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2016, 04:35:14 PM »

I couldn't believe he was allowed to continue to play. I thought the NFL hired independent doctors to stop games and pull players out for this reason. In my opinion, leaving him in there was dangerous



Those images tell the story, that's for sure.

He needs to be pulled in that instant and put through the proper protocols.  I don't care what point in the game it is. And you're right, that call should be made by independent doctors watching, not the coaching staff.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2016, 04:39:19 PM »

I couldn't believe he was allowed to continue to play. I thought the NFL hired independent doctors to stop games and pull players out for this reason. In my opinion, leaving him in there was dangerous



I think the end of that video sums it all up.  BOOM. Limp rag doll layng on teh ground, not moving.

Yup, he's fine... send him back in, just got his bell rung.

What is this, 1945?
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Colton
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« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2016, 04:58:53 PM »

I think the end of that video sums it all up.  BOOM. Limp rag doll layng on teh ground, not moving.

Yup, he's fine... send him back in, just got his bell rung.

What is this, 1945?

I think he did get up pretty quick after the video cuts, but the fact remains he took a vicious hit to the head, and then immediately hits his head again roughly falling to the ground. That's got to be worth an evaluation I would think, but I suppose I'm not a doctor.

I believe he also took a shot to the head in the 4th while going out along the sidelines on a 5-10 yard rush that isn't included here.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 05:00:28 PM by Colton » Logged
Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2016, 05:09:38 PM »

And if that's the new "concussion protocol", then we're in for a disaster soon...

Newton plays a different QB game, for sure.  He's a freakish specimen.  And because he's so big, he's less likely to get the roughing the passer calls, etc. 

But that shouldn't preclude him from concussion protocols.


You're not wrong, I just don't know what the best way to go about implementing the protocol. If a quarterback (or any player) has to go off every single time he's hit in the head that will only increase the number of head shots they receive, especially late in the game. Final drive? Hit a QB to the head and automatically his back up is on the way in. That would be a big problem for football. We know that not every hit to the head results in a concussion but we also know that sometimes the symptoms of a concussion don't show up until as much as 48 hours later or more. How then do you determine if a player needs to enter the protocol? It's a lot less black and white than people pretend. If Cam Newton doesn't have any concussion symptoms and plays next week, and had the NFL pulled Newton from the game, you've needlessly ruined the ending of that football game. You might argue that's the price of ensuring safety but I can certainly see the other side of the argument. I'm not sure what is best, and I don't think football (players and owners) have figured it out yet either.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 05:11:21 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
The Zipp
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« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2016, 05:17:32 PM »

You're not wrong, I just don't know what the best way to go about implementing the protocol. If a quarterback (or any player) has to go off every single time he's hit in the head that will only increase the number of head shots they receive, especially late in the game. Final drive? Hit a QB to the head and automatically his back up is on the way in. That would be a big problem for football. We know that not every hit to the head results in a concussion but we also know that sometimes the symptoms of a concussion don't show up until as much as 48 hours later or more. How then do you determine if a player needs to enter the protocol? It's a lot less black and white than people pretend. If Cam Newton doesn't have any concussion symptoms and plays next week, and had the NFL pulled Newton from the game, you've needlessly ruined the ending of that football game. You might argue that's the price of ensuring safety but I can certainly see the other side of the argument. I'm not sure what is best, and I don't think football (players and owners) have figured it out yet either.

agreed no simple/easy answer....BUT...they have to call the penalties when they happen - I think some of those shots weren't called earlier in the game...be consistent, be strong - maybe toss the guy along with the penalty the first time it happens.

is there an option of having an injury time-out (time to evalute) without the player leaving for 3 plays?  for head shots only??

Had he taken another blow like that the very next play - what happens then?

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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2016, 05:32:04 PM »

agreed no simple/easy answer....BUT...they have to call the penalties when they happen - I think some of those shots weren't called earlier in the game...be consistent, be strong - maybe toss the guy along with the penalty the first time it happens.

is there an option of having an injury time-out (time to evalute) without the player leaving for 3 plays?  for head shots only??

Had he taken another blow like that the very next play - what happens then?



Maybe although that would certainly increase the length of games as it could happen multiple times a quarter. Perhaps a start might to be allow for a situation room similar to the CFL, with spotters that can radio down to referees in real time when a head shot occurs so they can flag them more regularly.

If you're going to make it so that quarterbacks need to sit out after all head shots for evaluation then you're going to have to seriously increase the penalty for a head shot. It would probably take something like an automatic suspension and game ejection, although you'd still have defenders purposely do it late in big games. Of course there are tons of problems with that too...and so again, no real easy answer.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2016, 09:03:04 PM »

agreed no simple/easy answer....BUT...they have to call the penalties when they happen - I think some of those shots weren't called earlier in the game...be consistent, be strong - maybe toss the guy along with the penalty the first time it happens.

is there an option of having an injury time-out (time to evalute) without the player leaving for 3 plays?  for head shots only??

Had he taken another blow like that the very next play - what happens then?



He hit the ground like a dead puppy.  He was limp as noodles.  I don't care what the situation is, that's an immediate concussion protocol situation.

As for guys trying to take ou a QB with a head shot late in the game, there should be a suspension coming for this hit, and if the league sees this happening as a ploy to take a player out of the game, then it should become an even larger suspension... 

Its not like head hits haven't been used this way in the past... its just that now triggering the protocol is a little easier than actually taking his head clean off...
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