NHL Discussion (Other than Jets)

GOLDMEMBER · February 19, 2015, 04:05:35 PM

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 19, 2015, 01:26:28 PM
Ugh, lame game in Calgary last night. Both the Flames and Wild got points, the latter getting two. Lame.

I thought the same I think that game couldn't have gone worse for the Jets and the playoff race. We just need to keep winning or at least get the single.

Colton · February 19, 2015, 06:05:16 PM

NHL.com unveiling their advanced stats tomorrow will be interesting. All of the better advanced stats websites keep going down due to the owners getting hired by NHL clubs, so hopefully they did a good job with this.

blue_gold_84 · February 19, 2015, 06:14:35 PM

Quote from: Colton on February 19, 2015, 06:05:16 PM
NHL.com unveiling their advanced stats tomorrow will be interesting. All of the better advanced stats websites keep going down due to the owners getting hired by NHL clubs, so hopefully they did a good job with this.

I'm looking forward to that, too. What website have you been using otherwise?

Colton · February 19, 2015, 06:21:10 PM

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 19, 2015, 06:14:35 PM
I'm looking forward to that, too. What website have you been using otherwise?

For the most part hockeyanalysis and Behind The Net although I sometimes just do a Google search for a site and use some others from time to time. Anything else out there worth using?

blue_gold_84 · February 19, 2015, 06:28:05 PM

Quote from: Colton on February 19, 2015, 06:21:10 PM
For the most part hockeyanalysis and Behind The Net although I sometimes just do a Google search for a site and use some others from time to time. Anything else out there worth using?

Not that I've found. I'm part of a hockey analytics group on FB but it only started up a couple weeks ago, Hardcore Analytics. It's more player-to-player comparisons using advanced stats, to be honest. Price vs. Rinne, Palat vs. Hall, Myers vs. Bogosian, etc.

hockeyanalysis.com is probably the best option out there right now. Hopefully, puckalytics.com takes off at some point this year. A comprehensive, user-friendly website would be great.

Colton · February 20, 2015, 04:06:12 PM

Advanced stats are up on nhl.com

http://www.nhl.com/stats/advancedstats

It's not a bad start, and from what I hear they will be building onto this soon. (as well as possibly making salary info publicly available)

Ziggy66 · February 20, 2015, 05:41:40 PM

I like them.

glad they didn't use the labels of Corsi and Fenwick, as it confuses people trying to learn about advanced stats.

GOLDMEMBER · February 21, 2015, 02:58:02 PM

Ah life's to short to care about these stupid stats!

I can think of about 10 things I'd rather be doing than analyzing these dumb stats started by some guy named "Ferrari".

Ugh!

theaardvark · February 21, 2015, 03:13:49 PM

If Corsi and Fenwick had been named Smith and Jones, I don't think they get stats named after them.

Remember the Niblick? The Mashie? The Spoon? The Jigger?

Easier to remember, more descriptive names win out in the long run... truthfully, I don't know (or care) what COrsi or Fenwick measure. Knowing to 3 decimal points how many times out of a hundred a D man turns over the puck in the neutral zone when 5 on 5 really isn't as important as a lot of other things a player does. "Advanced Analytics" can never measure the heart of a player. Buff's contributions to the team aren't trackable that way. The way he can change a games momentum with a hit or two, or a rush off the point, those are stat proof.

GOLDMEMBER · February 21, 2015, 03:23:10 PM

Quote from: theaardvark on February 21, 2015, 03:13:49 PM
If Corsi and Fenwick had been named Smith and Jones, I don't think they get stats named after them.

Remember the Niblick? The Mashie? The Spoon? The Jigger?

Easier to remember, more descriptive names win out in the long run... truthfully, I don't know (or care) what COrsi or Fenwick measure. Knowing to 3 decimal points how many times out of a hundred a D man turns over the puck in the neutral zone when 5 on 5 really isn't as important as a lot of other things a player does. "Advanced Analytics" can never measure the heart of a player. Buff's contributions to the team aren't trackable that way. The way he can change a games momentum with a hit or two, or a rush off the point, those are stat proof.

"measure the heart of the player" ugh COME ON GIVE ME A BREAK MANG!

Colton · February 21, 2015, 05:04:19 PM

Quote from: theaardvark on February 21, 2015, 03:13:49 PM
If Corsi and Fenwick had been named Smith and Jones, I don't think they get stats named after them.

Remember the Niblick? The Mashie? The Spoon? The Jigger?

Easier to remember, more descriptive names win out in the long run... truthfully, I don't know (or care) what COrsi or Fenwick measure. Knowing to 3 decimal points how many times out of a hundred a D man turns over the puck in the neutral zone when 5 on 5 really isn't as important as a lot of other things a player does. "Advanced Analytics" can never measure the heart of a player. Buff's contributions to the team aren't trackable that way. The way he can change a games momentum with a hit or two, or a rush off the point, those are stat proof.

The tired strawman argument of those who don't understand advanced stats.

Nic16 · February 21, 2015, 05:27:23 PM

Analytics are just one of the many tools player agents + mgmt can utilize to measure a players worth come contract time. But obviously, there are variables to all measuring tools, and therefore the scouts critical eye test is still heavily relied upon.

That said, if the Cole availabilty rumors are true, he has the size, hands and type of game that could be a real nice fit on a line with 18 + 16. This would also allow Wheeler to move down onto a line with Scheif to try and re-kindle some of that magic from last year...and put Fro on the left side until Perreault comes back.

And if the Jets can also manage to bring Winnik home with them from Toronto, I think he'd be a real good fit with Lowry + Stafford during the playoff push.

The lines IF we made the playoffs would look like...
16-18-Cole
85-55-26
67-17-Staff
Winnik-19-22

Lots of size, speed, heart, experience thru the lineup with offense spreadout in the top 9 and maybe even the odd goal from the 4th line.

theaardvark · February 21, 2015, 07:23:56 PM

With everyone healthy, I think Staff would be on with Little Ladd... Cole with Lowry Frolik. Especially if we want to sign Staff... but again, the same might be said for COle, if they want to retain him past this year...

blue_gold_84 · February 21, 2015, 09:00:26 PM

Quote from: Colton on February 21, 2015, 05:04:19 PM
The tired strawman argument of those who don't understand advanced stats.

Exactly. And last time I checked, there wasn't some legitimate way to mathematically calculate a player's "heart".

Advanced stats are interesting because they can paint a more colourful picture of players and teams, which is important when addressing shortcomings with either and what improvements can be made to a specific player's game or a team's overall game.

Take a look at the advanced goaltending stats between Carey Price and Pekka Rinne, for example, to see how important the former really is to his team this season.

Ziggy66 · February 21, 2015, 09:29:47 PM

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 21, 2015, 09:00:26 PM
Exactly. And last time I checked, there wasn't some legitimate way to mathematically calculate a player's "heart".

Advanced stats are interesting because they can paint a more colourful picture of players and teams, which is important when addressing shortcomings with either and what improvements can be made to a specific player's game or a team's overall game.

Take a look at the advanced goaltending stats between Carey Price and Pekka Rinne, for example, to see how important the former really is to his team this season.

send you 18.86 via paypal. take care of the shipping costs please.

now do pavs vs hutch just for fun.