Would you play Vaval on D?

[Blue In BC]

Coaching Record & MilestonesCareer Record: 117–77Franchise History: He is the winningest head coach in Winnipeg Blue Bombers history, surpassing Bud Grant's previous record.Tenure: Hired in December 2013, he is the longest-serving active head coach in the Canadian Football League (CFL).AchievementsGrey Cup Championships: 2 (2019, 2021)Grey Cup Appearances: Led the Blue Bombers to five consecutive Grey Cup appearances (2019–2024).Coach of the Year: Two-time winner of the Annis Stukus Trophy (2021, 2022).

Only the best record as head coach ever.  You are understating the greatest of this stretch and only focusing the challenges we have faced recently.

The challenges during his early days here were expected.  They were not failures, it was a rebuild and the creation of one of the best team cultures we will ever see.  We had sucked bad for a very long time.  The club found its footing and had a chance at a real dynasty.  The GC loses were hard but still amazing seasons.

Do you not remember our dominace on D? The many games were didn't give up a TD or something crazy like that? Our high powered offense with Harris and some great year with Brady.  A top OL.  Zach playing so brilliantly, even peak Strev was awesome.  This was a reaching the summit by any definition, only sour point not getting 3 in a row or 3 or 4 out of 5. 

In the next decade or so we will likely not see this level of success again.  Hope I'm wrong.

Looking back at what happened to that draft pick means absolutely nothing.  Lots of woulda shoulda coulda talk.  Easy to claim what is right after history has already been written.

If you were not pleased by this great run the Bombers had you never will be.
Rare exceptions to the rule.  Far from normal.  Giz was a generational talent.

We should get back on topic about Vaval.  Clearly the forum is split on this.  Plus and minus either way.  The risk of injury outways the benefits imo.

Noting that that win / loss record is only 60%. The 1st 3 years were bad. In 2019 we finished 3rd but acquired Collaros and won the GC. Then won again in 2021. That was followed by 3 more GC appearances that we lost while our slide started.

2025 was bad and 2026 looks to be a further decline.

So, no I haven't forgotten anything but the " run " is less impressive when you look at the details in the overall curve.

Bell curve.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

O'Shea's approach to new players in general has been a disaster in recent years. It made sense when we had a vastly more talented team across the board but we haven't for several years and like his roster management, he hasn't course corrected his tactics to suit.

We need to go back to prioritize winning instead of being kind to legacies and stubbornly clinging to the "O'Shea way."

Someone needs to remind him he's 15-13 and 0-1 in the playoffs over the last season and a half.

He needs to get humble and get hungry again. Big time.

[Blueforlife]

Noting that that win / loss record is only 60%. The 1st 3 years were bad. In 2019 we finished 3rd but acquired Collaros and won the GC. Then won again in 2021. That was followed by 3 more GC appearances that we lost while our slide started.

2025 was bad and 2026 looks to be a further decline.

So, no I haven't forgotten anything but the " run " is less impressive when you look at the details in the overall curve.

Bell curve.

It will go down as one of the most successful and consistent runs in over the last couple of decades.  It was an impressive turnaround and I believe some are not giving credit where credit is due.  Like Dave Ritchie's time here, it might not end well but the good times were exceptionally awesome.  Our run of dominance at home and our elite D under Hall's rule will always be a highlight.  There could be a better run over the next decade or two but I believe any future regime will be hard preessed to match what was accomplished here.  Yes the last few years have been a decline but that's partially because how great we were.  I and a number of us seen the brilliance of this rebuild early so many years ago when others wanted change.  I pumped this regimes tires hard and often and even as we deflate I'll give it props for the good times it provided.  The sour grapes as of late will never spoil my past dining experiences (Denny reference anyone lol).

I get your point with the record and I know many gave up on this club a couple years ago but that's just how it goes.  The ebs and flows from bad, to decent, elite and the back down the mountain again.  Like the stock market, the bulls don't run forever.

The Canadian talent we enjoyed with Harris, Demski and Brady will never be forgotten.  All generational talents.

[Blueforlife]

I actually think this has been one of our organizations weaknesses.

Our PR players never become regulars. It's a common complaint that we waste our PR spots. Our STs very rarely do anything other than STs. Our core players have always been brought in from other teams, Bryant, Harris, Collaros, Jefferson, Bighill, etc.

We have found a lot of talent over the years that contributed to our success.  Major is the latest example but unfortunately as of late that scouting pipeline did slow down.  When we lost so many prospects and young vets to Hammy, I think that was the turning point.  I can't remember the names back in the day but we certainly have developed some good ones.  Kramdi comes to mind.  He faught his way up the ranks with many doubters along the way (hey wait they still here lol).  You make some good points but I think some of what you are saying applies more to recent history, not our ascend to the top.  A good debate, thanks for the counter. 

Some of your points have elements of truth but a little too obsolete imo.  Our PR players have become regulars at times.  We have had core players that we have developed (most gone due to $, SMS, etc.).  Vaval comes to mind. 

Our STs players do sometimes become posititonal players, maybe not as common as starters.

Those names you mention, certainly formed a solid foundation.

I think many have undervalued Our depth at LB.  I believe in a year or two, having all those guys develop will be a foundation when many other positional groups will require fresh talent.

[Blue In BC]

We have found a lot of talent over the years that contributed to our success.  Major is the latest example but unfortunately as of late that scouting pipeline did slow down.  When we lost so many prospects and young vets to Hammy, I think that was the turning point.  I can't remember the names back in the day but we certainly have developed some good ones.  Kramdi comes to mind.  He faught his way up the ranks with many doubters along the way (hey wait they still here lol).  You make some good points but I think some of what you are saying applies more to recent history, not our ascend to the top.  A good debate, thanks for the counter. 

Some of your points have elements of truth but a little too obsolete imo.  Our PR players have become regulars at times.  We have had core players that we have developed (most gone due to $, SMS, etc.).  Vaval comes to mind. 

Our STs players do sometimes become posititonal players, maybe not as common as starters.

Those names you mention, certainly formed a solid foundation.

I think many have undervalued Our depth at LB.  I believe in a year or two, having all those guys develop will be a foundation when many other positional groups will require fresh talent.

Nichols seems to aged out and Moxey may turn out to be a short term rental. We not particularly developed a bunch of DB's.

K. Wilson has aged out. Griffin and Woodbey are on expiring contracts. Ayers may also be on an expiring contract and he's not going to be a starter.

J. Jones was not brought into the CFL by the Bombers.

So aside from good Canadian ST LB's we haven't really developed many LB's as starting quality players.

I don't think you can look at it " in a year or two " and say it was a good development period. It's catch 22. If they become top players they may leave due to SMS opportunity elsewhere.

If they don't become top players, they become interchangeable. It's a position of youth low SMS contracts.

Can you name our LB's in 2023 without looking it up? Better yet, how many are still in the CFL?

[Blueforlife]

Nichols seems to aged out and Moxey may turn out to be a short term rental. We not particularly developed a bunch of DB's.

K. Wilson has aged out. Griffin and Woodbey are on expiring contracts. Ayers may also be on an expiring contract and he's not going to be a starter.

J. Jones was not brought into the CFL by the Bombers.

So aside from good Canadian ST LB's we haven't really developed many LB's as starting quality players.

I don't think you can look at it " in a year or two " and say it was a good development period. It's catch 22. If they become top players they may leave due to SMS opportunity elsewhere.

If they don't become top players, they become interchangeable. It's a position of youth low SMS contracts.

Can you name our LB's in 2023 without looking it up? Better yet, how many are still in the CFL?

I believe that our depth at LB will be a major asset going forward as we are developing players that will be decent to good and cheap.

Moxey hard to know.  See how season ends.

Nichols, Wilson yes we move on.

Griffin and Woodbey will be back.

You are putting the cart ahead of the horse, let them grow, they will start.  The development we have put into our LBs will pay off in spades.

The vocal group against our large roster of LBs are understating the value they will bring.

If you build it, they will come.  Patience.

The rewards of being deep at LB will show up in the next few years.  Forest through the trees.

[ModAdmin]

I believe that our depth at LB will be a major asset going forward as we are developing players that will be decent to good and cheap.

Moxey hard to know.  See how season ends.

Nichols, Wilson yes we move on.

Griffin and Woodbey will be back.

You are putting the cart ahead of the horse, let them grow, they will start.  The development we have put into our LBs will pay off in spades.

The vocal group against our large roster of LBs are understating the value they will bring.

If you build it, they will come.  Patience.

The rewards of being deep at LB will show up in the next few years.  Forest through the trees.

Lots of hefty assumptions here.  That's all they are.  There were big assumptions last off season with the free agents signed but the results are a mixed bag.  What is factual is that we are a 5 and 5 team with a very tough remaining schedule ahead and a lot of uncertainty at several positions.  That much we do know for certain.