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[Zeke Moreno]

#1

Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum / Re: NFL Option Clause

Last post by Blue In BC - Today at 04:46:25 PM

Maybe Corey Mace, drafted by the Bombers in 2007 but also signed with the Buffalo Bills where he hung around for 2 seasons played in 3 games and recorded a single tackle. Don't know if he forced the Bombers hand but the Hamilton Tiger-Cats acquired Mace's CFL rights along with a 2009 CFL draft first round pick in exchange for linebacker Zeke Moreno in the 2008 CFL season. Who here remembers Zeke Moreno?

The hate still burns.

Option year versus draft retention situation. Yes I remember Moreno.

[There were no good options.]

#2

Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum / Re: Blue Bombers announce coac...

Last post by Throw Long Bannatyne - Today at 04:33:43 PM

Jarious was under contract to be a QB coach.  To have him suddenly take the OC job in week 4 we'd almost certainly have to renegotiate his contract and pay him a lot more.  Whilst still paying Hogan.  Still bad from a coach cap perspective.

There were no good options.  Hogan had to produce or we were screwed.

Well they let Buck walk out the door with Kevin Bourgoin on a leash, if O'Shea had offered him the OC job he likely doesn't follow Buck to BC. Just guessing, but I would say he was better equipped for the step up than Hogan.

#3

Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum / Re: 1st & 10 | The Complete Bl...

Last post by Blue In BC - Today at 04:21:37 PM

Do they though?

Of the very best QBs that I've seen over the past 20+ years watching the CFL, they usually look pretty good as soon as they get an opportunity.

Generally yes. Calvillo, McManus and even Flutie did not have immediate success. We could argue that Harris and Fajardo are more recent examples of taking longer.

Some like Calvillo started immediately as a necessity in an expansion team ( in failed US expansion ). He then went to the TiCats and was eventually released before finding success in Montreal behind D. Allen.

McManus showed some talent before leaving Winnipeg before leaving for BC. I'd argue he didn't become a better than average QB until leaving for Edmonton. Real success came in Hamilton. In his 6th and last season in BC he had 19 TD's against 26 ints and 4655 yards. By the end of his 6th CFL season he was something like 55 TD's against 66 int's. That sounds like a long learning curve.

Success is based on having a good team around a QB to have a fighting chance of " looking good " at the start of his career. BLM had that during his time in Calgary.

There is a longer list of failures than successes at the QB league wide.


Pick a CFL team and google the QB's that have come and gone.

Who were the last Bomber QB's they found and developed to have success? Google past Bomber QB's over the last 20 years. The best were recycled from other teams

Seriously, the list of immediate success is a very short list IMO.

[Zeke Moreno]

#4

Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum / Re: NFL Option Clause

Last post by Throw Long Bannatyne - Today at 04:18:29 PM

Man, you guys are tough customers.  I knew someone was going to call me on this.

So they weren't still on their rookie contracts (obvious for Biggie, lol), but maybe some were still under a (multiyear) contract.  Dudes don't just wait until a FA year to take NFL looks.  They go look when called.  Are you positive Biggie & Henoc both left with 0 time left on their CFL contracts?  That info won't be immediately available -- you'll have to do some digging.  Unless you claim to have it all memorized!

I'm sure some of my other examples fit my scenario, and/or make up your own examples.  Zylstra, D.Walker, Singleton, D.Alford ... I'm sure there are tons from other teams which I don't memorize as much as guys from our team.  (Yes, even most of those are bad examples because 3 of 4 haven't returned (yet) -- come up with better examples for me!)

Even if it only affected 1 dude in the last decade, my point still stands: if there's time left on the contract, it should carry over when they return to the CFL.

Maybe Corey Mace, drafted by the Bombers in 2007 but also signed with the Buffalo Bills where he hung around for 2 seasons played in 3 games and recorded a single tackle. Don't know if he forced the Bombers hand but the Hamilton Tiger-Cats acquired Mace's CFL rights along with a 2009 CFL draft first round pick in exchange for linebacker Zeke Moreno in the 2008 CFL season. Who here remembers Zeke Moreno?

The hate still burns.

#5

Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum / Re: Blue Bombers announce coac...

Last post by theaardvark - Today at 04:02:44 PM

Jake was not the most physically gifted player but managed to last 13 years in the CFL. Chances are he has some pretty good knowledge and insight that will make him a good coach.

Rudy syndrome.

Wade Miller

Sam Hurl

Jake Thomas

Players that got the opportunity through passport, and made a career through effort.

#6

Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum / Re: NFL Option Clause

Last post by theaardvark - Today at 03:59:44 PM

Any remaining term on an uncompleted contract should be retained by the original team.

Term for sure, but value should be negotiable, with arbitration.  If the team and player can't come to a mutual agreement, it can be arbitrated.

We've seen issues with players overplaying their contract values and either sitting out of playing under protest, and leaving the moment their contract is up.  Smart team re-negotiate, and retain a happy, productive player.

#7

Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum / Re: NFL Option Clause

Last post by Jesse - Today at 03:24:49 PM

Man, you guys are tough customers.  I knew someone was going to call me on this.

So they weren't still on their rookie contracts (obvious for Biggie, lol), but maybe some were still under a (multiyear) contract.  Dudes don't just wait until a FA year to take NFL looks.  They go look when called.  Are you positive Biggie & Henoc both left with 0 time left on their CFL contracts?  That info won't be immediately available -- you'll have to do some digging.  Unless you claim to have it all memorized!

I'm sure some of my other examples fit my scenario, and/or make up your own examples.  Zylstra, D.Walker, Singleton, D.Alford ... I'm sure there are tons from other teams which I don't memorize as much as guys from our team.  (Yes, even most of those are bad examples because 3 of 4 haven't returned (yet) -- come up with better examples for me!)

Even if it only affected 1 dude in the last decade, my point still stands: if there's time left on the contract, it should carry over when they return to the CFL.

Well, I very clearly remember Henoc. He did his 3 years with us then he left.

I guess my opinion is that, given it happens so rarely, it's not worth trying to negotiate it out of the next CBA. What you give up is probably worth more than what you get back. Same with the Blue in BC option clause he's trying to get rid of.

#8

Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum / Re: 1st & 10 | The Complete Bl...

Last post by Jesse - Today at 03:21:57 PM

QB's often have a very long development curve.

Do they though?

Of the very best QBs that I've seen over the past 20+ years watching the CFL, they usually look pretty good as soon as they get an opportunity.

#9

Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum / Re: 1st & 10 | The Complete Bl...

Last post by Blue In BC - Today at 02:28:30 PM

Nobody can say with certainty what Wilson is.  He has the tools and doesn't have enough reps for us to evaluate his play.  I was pretty high on him but scaled back my expectations this year when he didn't get reps and threw ducks in practice.  I would prefer we roll the dice on a prospect rather than bringing in a mediocre option.  It's a hard decision, do we groom the next QB slowly to possibly hit a home run or is an average guy with experience a better bridge for us?

I would like a mobile guy with a cannon.  Wilson is that but so few can read a D and avoid turnovers.  A tough spot for us and no easy answers.

It looks like we will bring in a few guys and hope one pops!

QB's often have a very long development curve. Some look better in practice than in live game situations. Regardless, it's true we don't know much until we see them in game action with the game on the line.

The coaches will have a fuller assessment on Wilson than we do. That's more than just success in any practice sessions. How cerebral is a candidate and how quickly does he learn for example. Having some athleticism and arm strength are valuable assets but it takes more than that to succeed.

Wilson has a small advantage at the moment after being with the team for 2 seasons. At worst he might be pencilled in as the SY QB. At best he may be the best option as our # 2 QB going into TC.

Neither of those are giant steps forward and that's what we need for a 3rd year candidate.

I'm sure we'll look at additional QB's and have at least 1 more in TC. How this shakes out, I have no idea. The best I can come up with is that Wilson needs to show he's improving and may have a CFL future.

Some have high hopes for Perkins ( including me ) but we think that for most QB's when they get signed.

#10

Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum / Re: CFL (Non-Bombers) off-seas...

Last post by Ridermania - Today at 02:20:13 PM

Absolutely no shock there.  They need to keep the NAT REC ratio up so they can go all (or all but 1) IMP on D, or use 3 IMP OL.

Is K.Johnson in FA this year?  That's the real prize (but no passport).

Riders have an abundance of CDN receivers which makes the ratio work for them.

Yes, Johnson is a free agent.