Blue Bombers Forum

The Extra Point => Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum => Topic started by: ModAdmin on July 16, 2020, 04:32:07 AM



Title: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: ModAdmin on July 16, 2020, 04:32:07 AM
Information on what is being proposed for the revised CFL season is slowly coming out:

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tony washington
@t_dubsworld12
 ? Jul 14
Just what I thought... cfl waited till the last min to give us a deadline to decide on a ******** return to play scenario and when we dont agree its our fault!
..... for rookie Americans  33% of 64k is 21k after taxes 14k after conversion to states 9k...

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Keep in mind it's one person's take, it hasn't been confirmed, it's an American's point of view on an American's situation.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TecnoGenius on July 16, 2020, 07:53:17 AM
That would be 6 games.  I assume no bye, so that's 6 weeks of work (maybe +2 weeks preseason/camps/etc).  If a US player doesn't like it, they don't have to show up for it.  I'm not saying he doesn't have a point, but if CFL is going to happen everyone will have to make sacrifices: players some of their $$, maybe fans their favored seat, etc.  It sucks for everyone, but major suckage, to me, is still better than no CFL.

The "big" players will still show as they get their big signing and roster bonuses regardless of game count.  If the US ELC's don't bother to show, then all the more room for NATs and undrafted Canadians who otherwise wouldn't get on a team or see the field.

Don't forget, I'm pretty sure the playoff and GC money would still be the same, and with that being an even larger percentage of total salary it should up the competition level something fierce.  Non-star GC winners could double their 2020 salary.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Waffler on July 16, 2020, 12:20:33 PM
6 games? No way to schedule that fairly.

The money is weak but it is still pro ball. And the main advantage to an American, they get on film and the NFL possibilities that could follow that. Every guy will have to weigh it out and decide for himself if he plays.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 16, 2020, 01:25:31 PM
That would be 6 games.  I assume no bye, so that's 6 weeks of work (maybe +2 weeks preseason/camps/etc).  If a US player doesn't like it, they don't have to show up for it.  I'm not saying he doesn't have a point, but if CFL is going to happen everyone will have to make sacrifices: players some of their $$, maybe fans their favored seat, etc.  It sucks for everyone, but major suckage, to me, is still better than no CFL.

The "big" players will still show as they get their big signing and roster bonuses regardless of game count.  If the US ELC's don't bother to show, then all the more room for NATs and undrafted Canadians who otherwise wouldn't get on a team or see the field.

Don't forget, I'm pretty sure the playoff and GC money would still be the same, and with that being an even larger percentage of total salary it should up the competition level something fierce.  Non-star GC winners could double their 2020 salary.


A roster that needs to add more Canadian players due to some ELC's not coming is NOT the CFL, it's CIS. Canadian players on ELC's might also not want to play under these circumstances / pay levels etc.

Off the top of my head: Lawler, Grant, Whitehead, Bailey, Richardson, M. Jones, Hansen, Asotui and  Oliveria are on ELC's. All of the yet un-signed 2020 draft picks as well. Some may choose to get on with their non football careers for the 2020 season.

Eliminate some of TC and exhibition games, how do any rookies actually win a roster spot? May as well pick the 1st dozen off the bus.

Also as pointed out there is no way to schedule 6 games fairly.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 16, 2020, 01:51:16 PM
Information on what is being proposed for the revised CFL season is slowly coming out:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

tony washington
@t_dubsworld12
 ? Jul 14
Just what I thought... cfl waited till the last min to give us a deadline to decide on a ******** return to play scenario and when we dont agree its our fault!
..... for rookie Americans  33% of 64k is 21k after taxes 14k after conversion to states 9k...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Keep in mind it's one person's take, it hasn't been confirmed, it's an American's point of view on an American's situation.

Any links?


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: pjrocksmb on July 16, 2020, 02:47:42 PM
lets just hope most the players will do it, tough situation for everyone


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 16, 2020, 03:03:19 PM
No way to know what the reaction of players will be from either side of the border. For Canadians that don't live in a hub city it's a bigger challenge. If they're willing to come finding short term accommodation might be another obstacle. Not being able to return home for an extended time may be harder for some than others.

In the US some highly paid pro athletes have chosen to sit out any 2020 season. It's a small number but these players are giving up $100K's or more in US $$. Can't even tell yet about whether we see some NFL players choose to sit out.



Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on July 16, 2020, 05:56:20 PM
6 game season? Why bother?


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: pjrocksmb on July 16, 2020, 08:44:15 PM
6 game season? Why bother?

better than nothing and keeps the league afloat and continuity on the TV deal, but yeah tight spot


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on July 16, 2020, 09:25:23 PM
6 game season? Why bother?
Why because it would still be fun a hell! That is why!


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: pjrocksmb on July 17, 2020, 12:23:40 AM
Why because it would still be fun a hell! That is why!
one thing we can agree on!


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: NewBlue on July 17, 2020, 07:49:05 PM
I don't care about a fair schedule, give me 2 games vs Sask/CGY/Ham, and I'm still happy.  They have to be worried about us! ;D

But which 2 teams do you care least about playing?  For me Ott & Tor.  Ya, playing Nichols would be big - but in such a short season give me more of the rivalry games.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 18, 2020, 05:24:04 PM
The financial cost to pay players for an abbreviated season might be greater than the TV revenue. As a gate driven league that's going to come into play.

Since we're hearing comments that many teams are losing money or barely breaking even that's a concern.

That said the downside of NOT playing may do more damage than losing more money.

It's an ugly situation and choice whether the league gets loans or doesn't.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: KINGCHARLES on July 18, 2020, 09:33:51 PM
The financial cost to pay players for an abbreviated season might be greater than the TV revenue. As a gate driven league that's going to come into play.

Since we're hearing comments that many teams are losing money or barely breaking even that's a concern.

That said the downside of NOT playing may do more damage than losing more money.

It's an ugly situation and choice whether the league gets loans or doesn't.

I wonder does TSN pay a pro-rated price on their TV Deal....That is a huge factor as well....its not like the CFL is as big of a draw as the other Major Sports Leagues and they need all the left over pennies from the millionaires that they can get


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Donny C on July 18, 2020, 10:56:00 PM
I wonder does TSN pay a pro-rated price on their TV Deal....That is a huge factor as well....its not like the CFL is as big of a draw as the other Major Sports Leagues and they need all the left over pennies from the millionaires that they can get

With the potential season overlapping the NHL season, and the hunger for sports viewing, I wonder how much television viewership the CFL would receive?


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: bigbuff33 on July 19, 2020, 01:25:42 PM
David Braley said that with no season there's a good chance the league will fold...

Unbelievable...but that's the reality of the world we are living in.



Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: pjrocksmb on July 19, 2020, 02:42:23 PM
David Braley said that with no season there's a good chance the league will fold...

Unbelievable...but that's the reality of the world we are living in.



Lets just hope we figure this out.  I would be less impacted by the NHL folding than CFL.  I like my hockey but the CFL is my religion.  Full disclosure, season ticket holder of both.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: ModAdmin on July 19, 2020, 02:42:58 PM
The Canadian Football League's reigning Most Outstanding Player Brandon Banks has stated his football playing intentions amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

The CFL presented the players with a scenario for a potential six-game 2020 season, which would see athletes self-isolate in quarantine for up to 105 days or 15 weeks in a hub concept for one-third of their base salary. However, Banks isn't having any of it.......

https://3downnation.com/2020/07/19/cfl-most-outstanding-player-brandon-banks-i-wont-put-on-a-helmet-til-2021/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter



Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: pjrocksmb on July 19, 2020, 02:45:03 PM
The Canadian Football League's reigning Most Outstanding Player Brandon Banks has stated his football playing intentions amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

The CFL presented the players with a scenario for a potential six-game 2020 season, which would see athletes self-isolate in quarantine for up to 105 days or 15 weeks in a hub concept for one-third of their base salary. However, Banks isn?t having any of it.......

https://3downnation.com/2020/07/19/cfl-most-outstanding-player-brandon-banks-i-wont-put-on-a-helmet-til-2021/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter



Interesting, seen this stance from others as well.  We shall see if we have a season and who shows up.  I don't care what happens, just need ball this year.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 19, 2020, 03:38:40 PM
The Canadian Football League's reigning Most Outstanding Player Brandon Banks has stated his football playing intentions amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

The CFL presented the players with a scenario for a potential six-game 2020 season, which would see athletes self-isolate in quarantine for up to 105 days or 15 weeks in a hub concept for one-third of their base salary. However, Banks isn?t having any of it.......

https://3downnation.com/2020/07/19/cfl-most-outstanding-player-brandon-banks-i-wont-put-on-a-helmet-til-2021/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter



6 games seems like such an odd number. If 8 games were played then at least each team plays each other team once.

That extends the self isolation which becomes more of an issue for players. Depending on the start date and possible hub city then additional weeks make weather an issue.

I'd expect some number of players to not participate in the 2020 season. Who and what the consequence of that problem can't be determined at the moment. It could be any player Canadian or otherwise, from rookie to veteran.

What is the timeline for a decision from the players? I was speculating that even a shortened TC would need to start mid August?

Fingers are crossed but there is no optimism left.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on July 19, 2020, 04:15:19 PM
How can you play a six game season and then award the grey cup? I want the CFL back as much as anyone but that's a really stupid proposal. Makes no sense for anyone. If the option is six game season or cancelled season, I'll take the cancelled season.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 19, 2020, 08:56:26 PM
I say lets. Go from Labor Day to Rememberance day.  Grey cup played indoors
Let's get it going.
What's the problem? Well I mean I know the problem, but how is the. Government planning to safely operate.

Money.  Government awards testing funding.
I predict facilities will be open to social distancing and masks , and maybe a certificate indicating B a fan was tested.

Aim for 10,000 fans, unless Covid is. Ruled "out of the community"( like MB)

Everyone takes a hit in the pocketbook, but as Braley notes, at least there will be a "season"

Or how about moving it to the Spring? Shorter season, vaccine. Available?

My ignorance is bliss right?
But hey we. Have to do,something.
No risk no reward....but be smart about it.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: buckzumhoff on July 19, 2020, 10:06:53 PM
Like to see an 8 or 10 game schedule .even starting in September  and play just one final playoff in the  east and west.. start early and get playing in august. . Have playoffs in December.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: dd on July 19, 2020, 10:42:31 PM
Watched the 6 o?clock news and heard numbers are up in the states , the federal government canned the jays from hosting any Home games, various states and provinces are mandating wearing masks, Japan is hosting a sumo wrestling tournament  and the jets are practicing. Yep, the world is one messed up and confused place!!


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: bluegold4life on July 19, 2020, 10:50:29 PM
Unless Ambroise pulls a rabbit out of his butt in the next 48-72 hours there will be NO CFL unfortunately. The Feds not willing to help is another roadblock and in my opinion a 6 game schedule is dumb as heck, and many players refuse to play a short schedule at a lower prorated salary.

I would love to see our game In 2020 but I've also been preparing for the inevitable, NO CFL.

Just announce the cancellation of the 2020 season already rather then giving us fans false hope. Let's move on and focus on 2021 and beyond.

I'm not posting this to be an Azz, I'm just being realistic.  No help from the Feds is a major blow, but I'll be honest here. I don't blame the feds at all. There are larger issues that they need to focus on during a pandemic other then football. You know saving lives and restarting a country side economy.

A 6 game season is a BS Idea IMO and I don't blame players for NOT wanting it. It's a BS concept that makes zero sense to me. Time to stop wasting time in 2020, cancel the season and let's focus on 2021.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: pjrocksmb on July 19, 2020, 11:16:48 PM
I think the feds should throw the CFL a bone.  I am a small business owner and got 40k loan, 10k free if I pay it back within a certain time frame and if I don't its a reasonable interest rate.  They could give CFL just enough to stay afloat.  I'm sure the tax money they receive would be worth it long term but bluegold4life is right there are bigger issues and the government is in a huge hole already.

Shortened season sucks but if it keeps the league afloat and can generate some revenue its worth it.

Worst part is the players get the short end of the stick.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Pigskin on July 20, 2020, 02:28:24 AM
 Ambroise will still get most of his $750,000 salary. I really don't think he's done enough to get the league going again this year.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 20, 2020, 03:40:28 AM
That's the old way of. Thinking.

Would only Cdn play in a couple years? I mean 20-26 year olds making $50-70 grand, For half a years work.
You might say the public might be disinterested.  ...but if there is no game in town....

People pay to,watch the Gold eyes, who have to billet with People ,they make so little money.  Do they stil. Do that?

These young guys who haven't started their real jobs yet, could be interested.
Plus as I said before, Americans  who need a place to play, to get film.......
Not my preference for the CFL, but really,......if it goes back to Phase One, lots of changes to Canadian society.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 20, 2020, 01:40:28 PM
That's the old way of. Thinking.

Would only Cdn play in a couple years? I mean 20-26 year olds making $50-70 grand, For half a years work.
You might say the public might be disinterested.  ...but if there is no game in town....

People pay to,watch the Gold eyes, who have to billet with People ,they make so little money.  Do they stil. Do that?

These young guys who haven't started their real jobs yet, could be interested.
Plus as I said before, Americans  who need a place to play, to get film.......
Not my preference for the CFL, but really,......if it goes back to Phase One, lots of changes to Canadian society.

You'd need 540 players ( 60 / team ). Even more if you eliminate the NI's that already make $100K+ that won't play for a flat salary each player gets.

Really what you get is the CIS.

It would be easier to eliminate the ratio and play 100% young imports looking to reach the NFL.

Essentially a Canadian version of AAF or XFL which couldn't even survive in the US.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 20, 2020, 03:15:00 PM
Yup......but somehow,
People pay to watch the Goldeyes.

There would likely be a number of imports looking for somewhere to play, accumulate stats and game tape for their marketing of themselves for the next year.

It would be a responsible way to re-start the league.  Somewhat like  what I imagine the Orginal beginnings were like. Anyone remember the training. Camp opposite Canada Packers on Marion?

Some cities would be interested in rounding up an owner or ownership groups. Of course the invention of a vaccine or antidote would change realities again.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Pigskin on July 20, 2020, 04:25:58 PM
I look at it like this, if the NHL can pull it off, so can the CFL. The NHL has pull players in from all over the world. Ambroise needs to work a lot harder to get this done. Right now he is just happy collecting that big fat pay cheque.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: buckzumhoff on July 20, 2020, 04:41:55 PM
Ambrose way over paid. Like him but really. 750 k yo work in a office for a league that's hurting financially.  Start the games and get it going. Okay it week by week ABC things might open more. I think baseball might see fans later in the season in major league baseball if numbers go down. But with Trump. If he's out by November might see fans in December


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_or_die on July 20, 2020, 04:43:08 PM
I look at it like this, if the NHL can pull it off, so can the CFL. The NHL has pull players in from all over the world. Ambroise needs to work a lot harder to get this done. Right now he is just happy collecting that big fat pay cheque.

The NHL has billionaire owners and TV contracts to collect revenue on. The biggest problem isn't logistics I don't think, but rather how to run the league in a revenue positive way while having the reduce attendance anywhere from half to zero.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_or_die on July 20, 2020, 04:45:01 PM
Ambrose way over paid. Like him but really. 750 k yo work in a office for a league that's hurting financially.  Start the games and get it going. Okay it week by week ABC things might open more. I think baseball might see fans later in the season in major league baseball if numbers go down. But with Trump. If he's out by November might see fans in December

You think Trump is the roadblock to allowing fans in the stands? If anything, he's enabling things to go on as if everything's OK..


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 20, 2020, 05:00:33 PM
The NHL has billionaire owners and TV contracts to collect revenue on. The biggest problem isn't logistics I don't think, but rather how to run the league in a revenue positive way while having the reduce attendance anywhere from half to zero.

Not only that. Players earn so much more that it's more incentive to play even with risks. That's not true in the CFL.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 20, 2020, 06:43:24 PM
I doubt the CFL has a savings account. I doubt they do not get anywhere near break even unless there is a 20 game season.  They rely on filling stadiums.

In a reality sense, it may be more financially feasible to cancel this season, and just pack it up until next year. Let's hope some of those young men put their McDonalds training to good use.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Pigskin on July 21, 2020, 02:29:39 AM
Well it's nice to see Manitoba throwing 2.5 million at the CFL to be the Hub City. Sask. threw 3 million but they also have over 600 more cases of covid and a small population.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: pjrocksmb on July 21, 2020, 02:54:37 AM
Well it's nice to see Manitoba throwing 2.5 million at the CFL to be the Hub City. Sask. threw 3 million but they also have over 600 more cases of covid and a small population.
Very encouraging. 


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TecnoGenius on July 21, 2020, 10:37:38 AM
How can you play a six game season and then award the grey cup? I want the CFL back as much as anyone but that's a really stupid proposal. Makes no sense for anyone. If the option is six game season or cancelled season, I'll take the cancelled season.

Not sure how you can be an uberfan and say that?  6 games + playoffs + GC sounds perfectly acceptable to me.  Each team just doesn't play two from the other division.  Pick the two at random to make it fair.

They need to play to show they can do it, to keep hype and visibility up, to give themselves a reason for existing the rest of the year, and to allow players to play out their contracts in the year printed on them.  It also would be a huge boost for Canadian morale during these tough times.

And what if there's no change in the virus by summer 2021?  It's entirely possible, you know.  Do we cancel then too?  No, you play with what you got, you find solutions, and you make it work.  Now this is why Ambrosie makes the big bucks... get it done big man!

Japan is hosting a sumo wrestling tournament

That's the most important news of the bunch!  ;)  Talk about a full-contact sport.  (Makes me think of Austin Powers.)


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 21, 2020, 07:57:09 PM
Techno
Awesome points of view.
Make it work!
Make it positive.

Wade and Pallister boldly going where no man has gone before?
No risk, no reward.

Let's take a calculated gamble, make adjustments when needed.m take a leadership position!  Good for them!


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on July 21, 2020, 08:08:39 PM
Not sure how you can be an uberfan and say that?  6 games + playoffs + GC sounds perfectly acceptable to me.  Each team just doesn't play two from the other division.  Pick the two at random to make it fair.

They need to play to show they can do it, to keep hype and visibility up, to give themselves a reason for existing the rest of the year, and to allow players to play out their contracts in the year printed on them.  It also would be a huge boost for Canadian morale during these tough times.

And what if there's no change in the virus by summer 2021?  It's entirely possible, you know.  Do we cancel then too?  No, you play with what you got, you find solutions, and you make it work.  Now this is why Ambrosie makes the big bucks... get it done big man!

That's the most important news of the bunch!  ;)  Talk about a full-contact sport.  (Makes me think of Austin Powers.)


A six game season is not really "acceptable". It might be the only games we're allowed to play this year but it's not going to produce a real Grey Cup winner. It's more like a mini tournament where they give out the regular trophy at the end. You'll probably end up with a bunch of tied teams for playoff positioning (4-2, 3-3, 2-4).

Quality of play will be laking considering there will be no pre-season and a shortened training camp. We'll see basic football and since most games will be played outside in cooler weather, teams will focus on ground games with less sizzle. It's all they're really going to have time to install.

Then there's the economics. You'll need a bunch more government support to make this happen. As already stated, anyone on minimum contracts from the US (a substantial number of players) are going to walk away with very little compensation.

I don't really think it's going to produce a "huge boost in Canadian morale" however you quantify that. Games will be played in one place, likely without fans. For CFL fans it will be nice to see some CFL football on TV, but beyond that, it's not a unifying experience for the country.

Is it better than nothing? I'm not so sure. Instead of throwing a bunch of CFL and government money (and time and energy) at playing this year (considering the points above), I'd rather they put it towards a more substantial kick start next year. Marketing. Bands. Etc. We may need the extra money to play next year too. Perhaps two teams have to share a stadium due to a second wave outbreak in a city? The "we need to play at all costs this year" is short-sighted, in my opinion.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 21, 2020, 08:24:49 PM
TSN. Just announced Winnipeg. Given tentative approval  as Hub. City. For season start in Sept.

Let's go!


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_gold_84 on July 21, 2020, 08:45:34 PM
Exciting news for the city, the league, and the fans. Good progress!

https://www.cfl.ca/2020/07/21/winnipeg-tentatively-chosen-hub-city-2020-season/ (https://www.cfl.ca/2020/07/21/winnipeg-tentatively-chosen-hub-city-2020-season/)


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Donny C on July 21, 2020, 09:00:42 PM
When is the CBA set to expire?

Setting up a hub city was the first step in renewing the CBA.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 21, 2020, 09:54:14 PM
Sir Blue and Gold how is it you are always so negative? 


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on July 21, 2020, 10:17:14 PM
Sir Blue and Gold how is it you are always so negative? 

I'm not being negative. I am just not on the hype train for a six game season (for reasons stated above). I'll still watch it happily if it goes that way. Just adding what seems to be a difference of opinion to the majority here. I'll add another for consideration:

There will absolutely be players (and possibly coaches/coordinators) who test positive upon arriving here. That will likely mean those players miss (most or all?) of training camp and depending on timing, even the first week of the season. What if that player is a starting QB? A head coach? That's a pretty big competitive disadvantage especially considering one game is 16% of the season. One of the concerns the league must have is the legitimacy of the product and if you have a few situations like that, the "season" isn't going to be taken very seriously by some.

I suppose what I'm saying is the best case scenario is teams play a few games and someone wins the Grey Cup with an * beside it. Worst case it's a disaster with players refusing to participate, others having to quarantine mid-season, no fans in the stands and even a team pulling out due to an outbreak (two MLS teams had to pull out of their restructured season). There's a lot of risk here for a "season" that's probably going to be government funded and will likely lose money besides.



Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: PloenFan on July 21, 2020, 10:17:42 PM
Six game, 12 game, 18 game season doesn't matter- the Bombers will win the Grey Cup anyway !  :D


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on July 21, 2020, 10:40:32 PM
I'm not being negative. I am just not on the hype train for a six game season (for reasons stated above). I'll still watch it happily if it goes that way. Just adding what seems to be a difference of opinion to the majority here. I'll add another for consideration:

There will absolutely be players (and possibly coaches/coordinators) who test positive upon arriving here. That will likely mean those players miss (most or all?) of training camp and depending on timing, even the first week of the season. What if that player is a starting QB? A head coach? That's a pretty big competitive disadvantage especially considering one game is 16% of the season. One of the concerns the league must have is the legitimacy of the product and if you have a few situations like that, the "season" isn't going to be taken very seriously by some.

I suppose what I'm saying is the best case scenario is teams play a few games and someone wins the Grey Cup with an * beside it. Worst case it's a disaster with players refusing to participate, others having to quarantine mid-season, no fans in the stands and even a team pulling out due to an outbreak (two MLS teams had to pull out of their restructured season). There's a lot of risk here for a "season" that's probably going to be government funded and will likely lose money besides.


yup it might reality but Dallas FC pulled out because of the situation in general in Texas not because of an over run roster.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 21, 2020, 10:50:59 PM
Sir Blue and Gold,
Your posts and opinions are always thought provoking, and usually well thought out.

Pallister just announced there will be no 14'day quarantine for those Americans coming in.  Secondly, a. Couple of the TWELVE new cases are from travellers....yikes.....

Now that makes me really worried.  No quarantine!  I think they should keep that for three more weeks until phase five comes in.
I usually vacation in Phoenix,  at Xmas....lol! I am really thinking I don't want to fly there.

Plus if they open the border to air traffic, why is it closed to Car traffic???

Your points, are all strong possibilities.
I mean. If I am Zac Collaros, do I want to come, and expose myself to guys who haven't been quarantined? For a couple months??? Maybe?? Is it More beneficial to leave the 212 new Covid cases found today in Ont?

I guess if the Jets are willing to come up here for a month, and then be off for another couple of months, the CFL boys can.

Again, your points of contention, are great causes for concern.  Maybe the vaccine. By Phyzzer will be ready by Aug. 31.???


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: ModAdmin on July 21, 2020, 10:59:42 PM
Bob Irving
@BobIrvingCJOB
Winnipeg officially chosen as CFL hub city, IF games are played. Obvious choice from day one. Wade Miller's work is rewarded.  Now it's up to the players assoc. and CFL to make it happen.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on July 22, 2020, 01:40:26 AM
Bob Irving
@BobIrvingCJOB
Winnipeg officially chosen as CFL hub city, IF games are played. Obvious choice from day one. Wade Miller's work is rewarded.  Now it's up to the players assoc. and CFL to make it happen.
eat it once again RoughRiders, lol.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TecnoGenius on July 22, 2020, 07:02:19 AM
Is it better than nothing? I'm not so sure. Instead of throwing a bunch of CFL and government money (and time and energy) at playing this year (considering the points above), I'd rather they put it towards a more substantial kick start next year. Marketing. Bands. Etc. We may need the extra money to play next year too.

Ok, but, again, say the situation hasn't changed by April 2021.  Say there's no vaccine.  Say people are still getting sick and dying at around the same rate as now (Canada/US-wide).  This is entirely possible.  As I stated ages ago, there's never been a successful vaccine for any coronavirus.  If we don't get a vaccine (that works), and CV-19 carries on for 3 years before natural burnout, like the Spanish Flu, then we're talking 2023+ as the first "back to normal" year.

I'm not saying this is probable, but it's entirely possible.  If it was a longshot odds bet (like 20-1), I'd put some money on it.

Wouldn't you agree that in that case we should just start playing in 2020 because the whole idea of "waiting till next year" buys you nothing?

Now that makes me really worried.  No quarantine!  I think they should keep that for three more weeks until phase five comes in.

The technology exists for same/next-day covid test results if CFL wants to invest the money.  Test everyone as they enter the "hub" and if anyone is infected, they are ejected same/next day.  Repeat every day at first, then maybe every 4-5 days.  F1 is testing everyone in the "biosphere" every 5 days.

It can be done with no quarantine.

The odds of a fit young CFL player having covid in the first place is pretty low.  USA has had 4M cases out of 330M.  That's 1.2% of Amercians (known) having had it.  That's a hard fact.  Let's say it started Apr 1 (to simplify), and assume it's Aug 1 now, and assume cases last 2 weeks.  That's roughly 8 2-week periods of heavy covid.  Take the 4M and divide by 8.  That means in any given 2 week period 0.15% of the USA is (known) infected.  Let's say 5X that are really infected but don't know it.  That's 0.75% infected any given 2 week period.

So if you have 1000 players and staff/support going into a hub green zone raw odds say 8 will be infected.  But the visibly sick will be screened out before they ever get on a plane.  That should knock it down another 1/5, so say 6 infected.

Ya, I'm guestimating the unknowables like "unknown infected" but it's probably a decent guess to say only a handful will be problematic.  That's why you test every day at first with a rapid-result test.  I think dealing with these numbers is doable especially if all other precautions are taken.

Yes, it sucks if your star QB comes up positive and is shipped home (or quarantined or whatever).  Here's hoping the players whilst at home in the US will be smart with their precautions the 14 days before boarding the plane.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TBURGESS on July 22, 2020, 12:34:27 PM
Young and fit doesn't protect you from Covid.

You can test negative one day and posiitve the next, even if you're under quarantine or inside a bubble.

You can't divide by 2 week periods, because there could be one or more cases in any day of any 2 week period.

If a single player, coach, support staff tests positive, you can't simply remove that one person. Everyone who had contact with them would need to go into 2 week lock down.

Manitoba has done really well fighting Covid, but bringing in 500+ people from places that haven't done as well will likely change the overall results.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: the paw on July 22, 2020, 01:18:30 PM




Wouldn't you agree that in that case we should just start playing in 2020 because the whole idea of "waiting till next year" buys you nothing?




Most of your post is the usual hyper-positive, stream of consciousness jag with a bunch of made up numbers thrown in.  But I want to focus on this particular statement.

Waiting until next year, buys us knowledge.  I am talking about both society at large, and the CFL more specifically.  At present, there are a whole bunch of unknowns that will take scientific study to get a better handle on.  For example:

1.  We know that there is some airborne transmission, but we know relatively little about how many people are being infected from sneeze droplets versus just having someone sing or breathe next to them.

2.  We do not know if having the virus gives you immunity from re-infection, and if it does, we don't know how long it lasts. 

3.  We don't know why the virus attacks some people aggressively and not others. 

4.  We don't know if any of the vaccines getting early stage positive results are (a) substantially effective, or (b) entirely safe.  More time will be required to see how that pans out. 

5.  We don't know what the impact of relaxing the 14 day quarantine travel within Canada is going to have.  So far, the more travel, the more cases pop up here. 

These are just the first five that popped into my head, there are many others.  In each example, another 6-9 months of scientific study will give us more information, and allow us to make more informed decisions about risk.

We are probably going to have to learn to live with this virus over the long term, so we will eventually be able to establish a "new normal" which will include sporting events.  But we shouldn't be in a rush to get there just yet. 

The success of any CFL hub season (ignoring for a moment the economic feasibility) will rest entirely on how tight the bubble is, and how rigorously they screen and quarantine players upon entering the bubble.  As TBurg points out, one player tests positive, and the whole thing comes tumbling down pretty easily. 


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: GCn19 on July 22, 2020, 02:12:25 PM
Most of your post is the usual hyper-positive, stream of consciousness jag with a bunch of made up numbers thrown in.  But I want to focus on this particular statement.

Waiting until next year, buys us knowledge.  I am talking about both society at large, and the CFL more specifically.  At present, there are a whole bunch of unknowns that will take scientific study to get a better handle on.  For example:

1.  We know that there is some airborne transmission, but we know relatively little about how many people are being infected from sneeze droplets versus just having someone sing or breathe next to them.

2.  We do not know if having the virus gives you immunity from re-infection, and if it does, we don't know how long it lasts. 

3.  We don't know why the virus attacks some people aggressively and not others. 

4.  We don't know if any of the vaccines getting early stage positive results are (a) substantially effective, or (b) entirely safe.  More time will be required to see how that pans out. 

5.  We don't know what the impact of relaxing the 14 day quarantine travel within Canada is going to have.  So far, the more travel, the more cases pop up here. 

These are just the first five that popped into my head, there are many others.  In each example, another 6-9 months of scientific study will give us more information, and allow us to make more informed decisions about risk.

We are probably going to have to learn to live with this virus over the long term, so we will eventually be able to establish a "new normal" which will include sporting events.  But we shouldn't be in a rush to get there just yet. 

The success of any CFL hub season (ignoring for a moment the economic feasibility) will rest entirely on how tight the bubble is, and how rigorously they screen and quarantine players upon entering the bubble.  As TBurg points out, one player tests positive, and the whole thing comes tumbling down pretty easily. 

There were reports yesterday that immunity from re-infection may likely only last a few months at most. After 72 days it was found that covid antibodies post infection reduced by 50%. Covid may not be going away for a while as it does not seem that in a worst case scenario that herd immunity is likely to be effective without catastrophically rapid spread.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: the paw on July 22, 2020, 02:55:31 PM
There were reports yesterday that immunity from re-infection may likely only last a few months at most. After 72 days it was found that covid antibodies post infection reduced by 50%. Covid may not be going away for a while as it does not seem that in a worst case scenario that herd immunity is likely to be effective without catastrophically rapid spread.

Yes, I saw that, a study in England and another in Spain with similar results.  One of the challenges is that because the pandemic is having such a drastic effect on society and economy, a lot of study results are being released before being peer reviewed and without necessarily being replicated.  So I am reluctant to draw any conclusions too quickly, and want to see how they develop in the fullness of time. 

But if I was a betting man, I would agree that herd immunity is not the horse I would be betting on.  I think this is going to be a long haul...


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: bunker on July 23, 2020, 03:52:00 AM
There were reports yesterday that immunity from re-infection may likely only last a few months at most. After 72 days it was found that covid antibodies post infection reduced by 50%. Covid may not be going away for a while as it does not seem that in a worst case scenario that herd immunity is likely to be effective without catastrophically rapid spread.
You may be right. But immunity to viruses is complicated, involving other parts of the immune system other than antibodies, such as T cells, that are not assessed in antibody studies. For some viruses, we retain immunity even though antibody levels fall.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/614377/


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 23, 2020, 03:53:13 AM
Why?

In the last century scientists and inventors have come up with all kinds of unimaginable discoveries.
Vaccine makers had usually a period of five or more years,as there was no urgency to support their work.

However, focusing all the world. On developing a cure/vaccine is certainly within the realm of possibility.its very simple.  How bad  Do you want it?

History has shown the world has Gotten better, not worse at many things.
Now that the pressure is on or the urgency is wanted, look at those vaccine companies. Go.

Phyzzer. Just announce they would. Have something available in a few. Weeks.
Now will it be. The cure all to end. All? Probably not, but they will develop version 2,3,4 etc, just like. The Apple IPhone.

Come on, be realistic.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TecnoGenius on July 23, 2020, 06:27:19 AM
Young and fit doesn't protect you from Covid.

Not catching it, but it's been proven clearly that the death rates (CFR) on young & fit & no co-morbidity people are under 0.1%.  Maybe way under.  I would bet huge money not a single CFL or NFL player will die of covid in all of 2020, unless they had some weird pre-existing condition we didn't know about.

You can test negative one day and posiitve the next, even if you're under quarantine or inside a bubble.

If a single player, coach, support staff tests positive, you can't simply remove that one person. Everyone who had contact with them would need to go into 2 week lock down.

No they wouldn't.  If you get the same-day test machine you can simply retest everyone that day, next day, and then every few days thereafter.

That's the idea of the bubble.  You try hard to not let anyone infected in in the first place.  If someone comes up infected, remove them immediately and start retesting like it's day 1 again.

If there is strict mask protocol then a single infected person in the bubble should not cause a big outbreak.  Again, look at F1, with probably 1000+ people in the "bubble", and they are making it work right now.

Waiting until next year, buys us knowledge.  I am talking about both society at large, and the CFL more specifically.  At present, there are a whole bunch of unknowns that will take scientific study to get a better handle on.  For example:

Those are all great points and questions.  However, a lot of your questions may still be unanswered by April 2021.  And an effective & safe vaccine may not be here either.  I'm not saying that's likely, but it's entirely possible.  By your logic you would wait until we have many/most questions answered, but we may not reach that point for years.  And there will always be new questions.  Do we wait for those too?

What about the fact that the CFL might have a harder time staying alive if we don't play in 2020?  What if the damage to the fanbase of having no 2020 proves irreparable?  We aren't privy to the details, but it seems clear the league thinks it's better off playing vs waiting.  If Ambrosie is trying this hard, it must be important.

In the last century scientists and inventors have come up with all kinds of unimaginable discoveries.
Vaccine makers had usually a period of five or more years,as there was no urgency to support their work.

However, focusing all the world. On developing a cure/vaccine is certainly within the realm of possibility.its very simple.  How bad  Do you want it?

Yes, I have faith in our ability to overcome.  However, billions have been spent trying to find an HIV vaccine for, what, 35 years?  That's a virus as well.  I've outlined it before so I won't rehash, but coronaviruses in general (like SARS) have proven exceptionally tricky to make a vaccine for.  Many SARS trial vaccines caused test subjects to get sicker when they got the virus, not less sick.  Coronaviruses (in general) cause 20-30% of common colds and we all know how well science has been at curing the common cold over, what, 200 years?  And look at the flu vaccine, so hit & miss each year it's questionable that's "successful" too.

We have to accept the possibility that there will be no effective vaccine.  Again, I wouldn't bet against humanity, but it is possible.  That's why we should play now.  If you wait for the "right" time (or worse, the "perfect" time) then we probably won't play for years.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 23, 2020, 08:12:00 AM
Lol!

For or against!

Can't have both.

There are risks in a many things we do. Lots of cliches out there, but one that comes to mind " you'll never hit the shot you don't take."
 
We live with a lot of crap in our body.  If you had chicken pox, you are susceptible to getting shingles. 
One of the reasons,  I think this will be tackled( pun intended) The Flu shot.  That's Partially why I am optimistic. I have taken it, and didn't get a cold for two years. The scientists will find cures for all these diseases. The flu shot eases symptoms, shortens the recovery time and has made the head colds literally breathable.

But you are correct, sometime the scientists don't get the right flu strain, and the vaccine doesn't work.
Those dudes in the medical field have to be pumped up practicing or experimenting, and getting closer to their success. Practice makes perfect.

At this rate when school,start in Sept and by the latest October, I think there will be. Some sort of co-vid flu shot.

Earlier this year, I wrote myself a post-it note.  It said "keep the faith"




Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 23, 2020, 12:57:21 PM
Not every person knows they have a pre-existing condition. Some that gets sick but survive may have lifelong negative health issues.

Just saying that a young group of athletes are essentially not at risk is incorrect. We've seen all sorts of young people attending parties, bars etc get sick and die.  What about the older coaches and support people that are needed for football?

The desire for sports or entertainment can have fatal consequences.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TBURGESS on July 23, 2020, 01:17:44 PM
Player A get covid so they take him out of the bubble for 14 days. The rest of the players get tested and you wait for the results to find out if any of them are infected. In the meantime, they are inside the bubble and can pass it on. The current tests don't show as positive during the incubation period, so players in that situation will test negative despite having Covid.

Setting the bar for OK to death is kinda troubling too.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TBURGESS on July 23, 2020, 01:21:32 PM
#CFL players overwhelmingly reject most recent financial proposal for shortened 2020 season https://3downnation.com/2020/07/23/cfl-players-overwhelmingly-reject-most-recent-financial-proposal-for-shortened-2020-season/ #CFLPA #COVID19 #Canada


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on July 23, 2020, 01:24:16 PM
#CFL players overwhelmingly reject most recent financial proposal for shortened 2020 season https://3downnation.com/2020/07/23/cfl-players-overwhelmingly-reject-most-recent-financial-proposal-for-shortened-2020-season/ #CFLPA #COVID19 #Canada

No surprise. A six game season makes no sense for most players financially.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 23, 2020, 01:45:43 PM
Not a surprise. CFL salary structures are not like the other pro leagues where millions of $$ are involved.

The risk / reward factor is something plays will look at when making a decision. For many on ELC contracts they may have career opportunity out of football that will earn them more.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Donny C on July 23, 2020, 02:58:45 PM
I would guess that many WPG Blue Bomber players would be interested in playing with the chance to defend the Cup at home!


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_or_die on July 23, 2020, 03:24:57 PM
I would guess that many WPG Blue Bomber players would be interested in playing with the chance to defend the Cup at home!

Maybe the ones from here...

If I was a 24 year old guy from Alabama and you threw a few grand at me (after taxes and exchange rate) to live in a dorm in Winnipeg for months straight and have no other life, and play during the coldest part of the season for the chance to win a championship in front of an empty or near empty stadium that would have an asterisk beside it, I would laugh at it.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Waffler on July 23, 2020, 03:37:53 PM
Maybe the ones from here...

If I was a 24 year old guy from Alabama and you threw a few grand at me (after taxes and exchange rate) to live in a dorm in Winnipeg for months straight and have no other life, and play during the coldest part of the season for the chance to win a championship in front of an empty or near empty stadium that would have an asterisk beside it, I would laugh at it.

Unless you want to extend your football career. What he does get is some film and a chance at an NFL workout this winter. Otherwise it is likely over. Up to each guy to figure out for himself.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: the paw on July 23, 2020, 03:55:15 PM
Unless you want to extend your football career. What he does get is some film and a chance at an NFL workout this winter. Otherwise it is likely over. Up to each guy to figure out for himself.

I don't think the possibility of 6 games of tape is all that enticing.  Firstly, there is no guarantee they even make the team or get past the practice roster.  Secondly, all these guys have already had NFL eyes on them, it is going to take more than 6 games in a goofy season to change that evaluation.  It's guys like Sayles, Bighill, Rose who put up 2 or more solid seasons that get looks.

For the older guys, if they haven't gotten their shot by now, they probably won't.  For the younger guys, missing 2020 and trying to make a 2021 roster really doesn't diminish their chances. 

Players want to play, but to be on 15 week lockdown for next to no money, at an increased risk for exposure to the virus, it's hard to see a large uptake. 


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 23, 2020, 04:02:16 PM
A couple of rhetorical comments / thoughts:

1. We haven't had a global draft. Existing players on rosters might not be available from Europe. There might be a need to modify the roster make up for 2020 if any games are to be played. Simplest way might be to add another Canadian for either or both of the global players if they aren't available. Ditto for PR rosters.

2. Somebody mentioned ELC imports only earning $10K usd. 1/3 of $65K cad is more than $10K usd. There is also TC money, and potential playoff money. I haven't heard whether the play off money is being decreased specifically. I have heard suggestions of no semi final?

3. Any championship team isn't really going to be a Grey Cup team. I'd re-name the game:
    a. 1st Responder Bowl
    b. Covid 19 Bowl
    c. Survival Bowl
    d. Other?

4. NFL just eliminated all pre season games. Also reduced TC roster from 90 to 80. That may or may not impact those CFL players trying to gain a roster spot. So that's something to watch as well.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_gold_84 on July 23, 2020, 04:13:50 PM
Unless you want to extend your football career. What he does get is some film and a chance at an NFL workout this winter. Otherwise it is likely over. Up to each guy to figure out for himself.

At the end of the day, money talks. More than a chance to have film or an outside shot at a NFL workout.

This whole situation is disastrous for a league like the CFL.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 23, 2020, 04:48:55 PM
No it's not.
The NFL decision to. Have no training Camp exhibition games is a killer for young players.  Even out Bomber stars trying out might be out, real quick.
Therefore the CFL for a couple months let's the guys get film.  And you don't need a season worth of games. Actually, film. From one, Game could get a prospect a look.
 But no film, less likely.
Most of the Americans. Coming up would be long shot. Guys anyway. Young guys coming up for a few months, keep on partying, sharing a house..

Of course the Covid problem prevails and must be dealt with in all cases.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: the paw on July 23, 2020, 05:56:23 PM
A couple of rhetorical comments / thoughts:



2. Somebody mentioned ELC imports only earning $10K usd. 1/3 of $65K cad is more than $10K usd. There is also TC money, and potential playoff money. I haven't heard whether the play off money is being decreased specifically. I have heard suggestions of no semi final?



I think the math is one third of $65k is about $22k, but after CFLPA dues and tax withholding, the player take home is nearer $12k, which after conversion to USD becomes $9k.   That was from a player twitter feed, so it may not be precise. 

I really haven't read anything about what the CFL proposal said about playoff compensation, so I don't know if we can assume much of anything there. 


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_or_die on July 23, 2020, 06:04:41 PM
No it's not.
The NFL decision to. Have no training Camp exhibition games is a killer for young players.  Even out Bomber stars trying out might be out, real quick.
Therefore the CFL for a couple months let's the guys get film.  And you don't need a season worth of games. Actually, film. From one, Game could get a prospect a look.
 But no film, less likely.
Most of the Americans. Coming up would be long shot. Guys anyway. Young guys coming up for a few months, keep on partying, sharing a house..

Of course the Covid problem prevails and must be dealt with in all cases.

 ???

 :D


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TecnoGenius on July 24, 2020, 05:12:56 AM
#CFL players overwhelmingly reject most recent financial proposal for shortened 2020 season https://3downnation.com/2020/07/23/cfl-players-overwhelmingly-reject-most-recent-financial-proposal-for-shortened-2020-season/ #CFLPA #COVID19 #Canada

Well that's that then.  CFL/TSN need a way to sweeten the $$ deal, or the feds need to chip in.

The players have been quick to shoot down the proposed $$, but have any said exactly what it will take?  Do they want half their normal?  Two-thirds?  All of it?  What precisely do they think is fair or "worth it"?

Surely if we can come up with half salary for them to play just 6 measly games then we can get the players on board?  Surely they don't want full salary??

1. We haven't had a global draft. Existing players on rosters might not be available from Europe. There might be a need to modify the roster make up for 2020 if any games are to be played. Simplest way might be to add another Canadian for either or both of the global players if they aren't available. Ditto for PR rosters.

Surely the GLOB requirement will have to either be set to 2019 levels, or if the GLOBs can't get here at all then eliminate GLOBs and make them NATs, as you said.  Or give the teams a choice: NAT or GLOB, to fill the 1-2 GLOB spots.

2. Somebody mentioned ELC imports only earning $10K usd. 1/3 of $65K cad is more than $10K usd. There is also TC money, and potential playoff money. I haven't heard whether the play off money is being decreased specifically. I have heard suggestions of no semi final?

One would think the playoff/GC money would remain the same.  If anything, I'd increase it.  There needs to be an incentive for them to come up here and play their butts off for 6 games to vie for the playoff money.  I see no reason at all why you'd decrease it.

No semis seems a bit weird.  I guess you either go 4 teams in playoffs straight to the "divisionals" (but probably without divisions), or 6 teams in with semis then divisionals.

3. Any championship team isn't really going to be a Grey Cup team. I'd re-name the game:
    a. 1st Responder Bowl
    b. Covid 19 Bowl
    c. Survival Bowl
    d. Other?

No way.  That detracts from the history and lineage of the GC.  Surely in the 107 year GC history there has to be other instances of shortened or otherwise strange seasons?

I'd say the most important symbolic part of a 2020 season would be the Grey Cup!


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 24, 2020, 01:20:47 PM
Well that's that then.  CFL/TSN need a way to sweeten the $$ deal, or the feds need to chip in.

The players have been quick to shoot down the proposed $$, but have any said exactly what it will take?  Do they want half their normal?  Two-thirds?  All of it?  What precisely do they think is fair or "worth it"?

Surely if we can come up with half salary for them to play just 6 measly games then we can get the players on board?  Surely they don't want full salary??

Surely the GLOB requirement will have to either be set to 2019 levels, or if the GLOBs can't get here at all then eliminate GLOBs and make them NATs, as you said.  Or give the teams a choice: NAT or GLOB, to fill the 1-2 GLOB spots.

One would think the playoff/GC money would remain the same.  If anything, I'd increase it.  There needs to be an incentive for them to come up here and play their butts off for 6 games to vie for the playoff money.  I see no reason at all why you'd decrease it.

No semis seems a bit weird.  I guess you either go 4 teams in playoffs straight to the "divisionals" (but probably without divisions), or 6 teams in with semis then divisionals.

No way.  That detracts from the history and lineage of the GC.  Surely in the 107 year GC history there has to be other instances of shortened or otherwise strange seasons?

I'd say the most important symbolic part of a 2020 season would be the Grey Cup!


A 6 game season is not a Grey Cup season. Lineage is irrelevant.

How can you increase the payout for playoffs when revenue is gone?


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Pigskin on July 24, 2020, 05:17:32 PM
But that is what's on the line the, GC. Weather it's 6 games or 18. The CFL will award the GC and in a few no will really care if it was 6 or 18 games.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: dd on July 25, 2020, 02:22:17 PM
The economics involved in a shortened season with drastically reduced paying customers doesn?t work, and the federal government isn t going to throw money at this, so this whole notion of a shortened season isn?t going to happen.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 26, 2020, 05:36:58 AM
Huh?
Obviously it would be a shortened season
Obviously player salaries would be. A percentage of regular
Obviously teams would have significant challenges to raise revenue.

But get creative?
Could TSM suspend this years rights?
Could they create a temporary situation to create a " pay-per-view"?
Could or would owners and. Corporate owners sustain. A loss of revenue but be able to manage it?

How about a split Season. 8'games now and 8'games in April/May?
Suggest some way to make,it,work.
It's simple. Find a way, and do you want it?

How much. Do ya. Want it?


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: buckzumhoff on July 26, 2020, 11:54:18 AM
Id like to see them play 8 games. Would be half  a season. Play in to November .


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TBURGESS on July 26, 2020, 01:02:15 PM
Pay per view would make TSN less money than the current system because the number of people who would actually pay wouldn't be interesting to the advertisers and that's where TSN makes it's money.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_gold_84 on July 26, 2020, 03:17:49 PM
Id like to see them play 8 games. Would be half  a season. Play in to November .

Half of 18 is 9, not 8.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: dd on July 26, 2020, 04:26:24 PM
Huh?
Obviously it would be a shortened season
Obviously player salaries would be. A percentage of regular
Obviously teams would have significant challenges to raise revenue.

But get creative?
Could TSM suspend this years rights?
Could they create a temporary situation to create a " pay-per-view"?
Could or would owners and. Corporate owners sustain. A loss of revenue but be able to manage it?

How about a split Season. 8'games now and 8'games in April/May?
Suggest some way to make,it,work.
It's simple. Find a way, and do you want it?

How much. Do ya. Want it?
I don?t think enough people want it and economically it doesn?t make sense, therefore won?t happen.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 26, 2020, 07:18:25 PM
DD ... Debbie. Downer?

How much do ya want it to happen?
How does one make it happen?

By saying I cant?
No...find alternatives or ways to make it happen.

So easy to say, it won't happen.
Why is there increasing talk of an available vaccine increasing every day?
Is that because it " won't happen"

No, make it happen....


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: dd on July 26, 2020, 09:18:59 PM
Taking a realistic view of the world and the associated Poor economics of a shortened season doesn?t make someone a Debbie downer, it makes them a realist. I prefer to live in the real world, not some fantasy where you say make it happen and it will. Players aren?t going to risk their health, play for peanuts and get no pension out of it. There is the revenue streams to make it economically viable without a ton of government money and that?s not happening. Scream all you want from your soap box, but until you come up with solutions to the obstacles stalling the process, and I don?t see anything being thrown out there, it ain?t gonna happen.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: mondo3 on July 26, 2020, 11:14:32 PM
I wonder what the real final date would be for a limited season start? There has to be some actual cutoff point


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: dd on July 27, 2020, 01:56:14 AM
This Friday July 31 is the date I ve seen as the deadline


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 27, 2020, 02:46:47 AM
Double D,

With that Kind of attitude there would be no mom and pop restaurants. 
If all you are doing is looking at this as a one year operation, then you are desperate to make your sad point.

I would guess many businesses that have the balls to not quit, expect it won't be all that profitable on the day they open.  However, once the economy gets back in its feet, the supply and demand will increase.

Now,  as only 3/9 teams are not privately owned, those others have been operating at a loss for many years, already.  I guess it would be safe to say the others, are so good at surviving and have massive fan support, they can survive this ordeal.

And. For sure cultural Icons, such as. The Bombers and Riders will surely get money from their governments in the future.  So........how does it not work? Do you and Braley really think the public would let the oldest football league on the planet die?  Dude!


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_or_die on July 27, 2020, 02:08:54 PM
Double D,

With that Kind of attitude there would be no mom and pop restaurants. 
If all you are doing is looking at this as a one year operation, then you are desperate to make your sad point.

I would guess many businesses that have the balls to not quit, expect it won't be all that profitable on the day they open.  However, once the economy gets back in its feet, the supply and demand will increase.

Now,  as only 3/9 teams are not privately owned, those others have been operating at a loss for many years, already.  I guess it would be safe to say the others, are so good at surviving and have massive fan support, they can survive this ordeal.

And. For sure cultural Icons, such as. The Bombers and Riders will surely get money from their governments in the future.  So........how does it not work? Do you and Braley really think the public would let the oldest football league on the planet die?  Dude!

Tried to respond to this but my head exploded a few times.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 27, 2020, 03:24:43 PM
MLB tried to operate without isolating their players in a bubble and it only took 3 days for a COVID break out to occur.

"On Sunday the Coronavirus Hotspot Marlins played the third game of their season in Philadelphia against the Phillies. They took the field despite reports of four positive COVID tests among players ? though nothing was confirmed officially ? and then manager Don Mattingly said the team would stay in Philadelphia overnight rather than return home to Miami as scheduled. Again, while nothing was formally confirmed, the clear implication was that the COVID Epicentre Marlins were waiting on more test results."

"By Monday morning, the disaster scenario: ESPN reported that another 10 Marlins players and staff had tested positive for the virus, and the team?s scheduled game against the Baltimore Orioles was cancelled. Philadelphia?s Monday game against the New York Yankees, who would have used the same locker room at Citizens Bank Park that the Marlins just departed, has also been postponed."

"It was always possible that Major League Baseball?s relatively lax plan would blow up in its face this spectacularly, but that it happened quite so soon is a surprise. All the problems that were identified weeks ago, when MLB hurriedly threw together a 60-game schedule bereft of any kind of safety bubble like those deployed by the NBA, NHL and MLS, have quickly come to pass."

"Baseball players are free to roam around in the wild, which is a particular issue in places like Miami, presently home to one of the highest rates of new coronavirus infections in the developed world."

https://nationalpost.com/sports/baseball/scott-stinson-miami-marlins-covid-19-outbreak-shows-major-league-baseballs-astonishing-lack-of-foresight/wcm/cb44712a-96b6-408c-9acd-3731315e24a0/



Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_gold_84 on July 27, 2020, 05:23:38 PM
Tried to respond to this but my head exploded a few times.

Hands down the most incomprehensible, nonsensical, brain-melting posts on this forum.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 27, 2020, 07:14:12 PM
Are you two guys related?


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: pjrocksmb on July 27, 2020, 11:52:38 PM
don't rag on the ranters too hard LOL

best to just let them purge, kinda like a steam ship  :P :P


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_gold_84 on July 28, 2020, 01:37:34 AM
Are you two guys related?

Yeah, sure. Brothers with brains. ;D


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 28, 2020, 04:15:41 AM
Lol!
OK, if you say so!


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: ModAdmin on July 29, 2020, 04:24:33 AM
Not a lot of new information but here is one current take on the subject:

https://3downnation.com/2020/07/28/canadian-government-examining-request-to-see-where-cfl-may-fit-in-existing-emergency-assistance-programs/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TecnoGenius on July 29, 2020, 05:01:56 AM
Not a lot of new information but here is one current take on the subject:

https://3downnation.com/2020/07/28/canadian-government-examining-request-to-see-where-cfl-may-fit-in-existing-emergency-assistance-programs/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Yup, I'll save the TL;DR crowd the time... it's the same old same old.

It's now mid-week and we hopefully will be getting some hard details soon...


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: dd on July 30, 2020, 03:31:30 AM
Well we re headed for Thursday and not a peep, certainly doesn?t look good. I understand the players stance in they can?t make it to for 1/3 of their salary even though they?re playing only 1/3 of the season, I m thinking that?s where it ends. As near and dear as the league is to many of us, it?s simply not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 30, 2020, 01:22:58 PM
Well we re headed for Thursday and not a peep, certainly doesn?t look good. I understand the players stance in they can?t make it to for 1/3 of their salary even though they?re playing only 1/3 of the season, I m thinking that?s where it ends. As near and dear as the league is to many of us, it?s simply not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

There were too many obstacles to overcome both financially and from health points of view.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on July 30, 2020, 01:30:18 PM
There were too many obstacles to overcome both financially and from health points of view.

Plus the "solution" is to start a season in Winnipeg in October. Like, why? I don't get it.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 30, 2020, 02:29:15 PM
Plus the "solution" is to start a season in Winnipeg in October. Like, why? I don't get it.

Agree, no one is specifically to blame as it is a complicated process but the CFL is gradually squandering the opportunity to engage fans, starting in Oct. the CFL is almost becomes an afterthought which could get lost in the shuffle instead of grabbing the spotlight. 


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 30, 2020, 05:48:39 PM
Plus the "solution" is to start a season in Winnipeg in October. Like, why? I don't get it.

That's why I suggested Vancouver as a better alternative to have a later and even longer season in a climate controlled stadium.

Of course there were other potential issues with Vancouver. However being able to play in November, December and even January would have been possible.



Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: dd on July 30, 2020, 11:01:31 PM
That's why I suggested Vancouver as a better alternative to have a later and even longer season in a climate controlled stadium.

Of course there were other potential issues with Vancouver. However being able to play in November, December and even January would have been possible.


They may end up going there as this virus saga continues....as it looks like Plan A isn't going to happen


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on July 31, 2020, 05:53:37 AM
Ok, starting in Winnipeg in October is stupid.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 31, 2020, 01:15:32 PM
Well the negotiation was extended to this week. It's Friday and all I hear is crickets. :(

I wasn't expecting success but the lingering false hope is like a wound not healing.

Can we make a final decision and put this to rest?


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_gold_84 on July 31, 2020, 01:49:50 PM
Well the negotiation was extended to this week. It's Friday and all I hear is crickets. :(

I wasn't expecting success but the lingering false hope is like a wound not healing.

Can we make a final decision and put this to rest?

In 2020? No such thing as a final decision on anything... Well, maybe one thing: 2020 blows.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 31, 2020, 02:07:56 PM
I've read that some NFL players that have opted out of the 2020 season are hearing backlash from some fans.

Fans need to give their heads a shake. It's up to the individual players to determine whether to play or not.

Laurent Duvernay Tardif a Canadian OL for Kansas City has opted out of the season giving up a $2.75M 2020 contact.

He is a doctor that has chosen to work in Canadian health care putting himself at a greater risk than playing football. I don't know what his medical earnings will be but I doubt they are on the same planet as his football income.

Other players have underlying medical conditions of family issues - pregnant wife, small children, aging parents for example.

There is more to life decisions than just football. Kudos to those players that choose to not put football above other considerations of family.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: dd on July 31, 2020, 02:09:40 PM
Ok, starting in Winnipeg in October is stupid.
They d be starting in Vancouver in October, which is doable, and following the model used by the nhl?creating a bubble to aid in controlling virus. But it?s not going to happen anywhere, the economics say the 2020 cfl season is done


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 31, 2020, 02:48:29 PM
They d be starting in Vancouver in October, which is doable, and following the model used by the nhl?creating a bubble to aid in controlling virus. But it?s not going to happen anywhere, the economics say the 2020 cfl season is done

I doubt they could organize the switch in locations in time for Christmas considering how long it's taking them to get all parties to agree to the Wpg. hub concept.   Hell, I'd be happy to see an abbreviated 2020 season played indoors in Vancouver starting in Jan. or Feb....but at that point, what's the point?


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Donny C on July 31, 2020, 04:20:03 PM
David Naylor reporting, "Sources say the federal government has offered to help the
@CFL
 with a short-term loan, at a high interest rate and fees. League believes taking that kind of loan would put them in a worse position going forward. #CFL
11:59 AM "

My take on this, It's politics, make no mistake about it!

It's a way for them to say that they offered help and that the help was decline.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Stretch on July 31, 2020, 04:27:13 PM
I've read that some NFL players that have opted out of the 2020 season are hearing backlash from some fans.

Fans need to give their heads a shake. It's up to the individual players to determine whether to play or not.

Laurent Duvernay Tardif a Canadian OL for Kansas City has opted out of the season giving up a $2.75M 2020 contact.

He is a doctor that has chosen to work in Canadian health care putting himself at a greater risk than playing football. I don't know what his medical earnings will be but I doubt they are on the same planet as his football income.

Other players have underlying medical conditions of family issues - pregnant wife, small children, aging parents for example.

There is more to life decisions than just football. Kudos to those players that choose to not put football above other considerations of family.

If I'm not mistaken, NFL players that opt out are still getting paid something like $150K. And yeah, what's with fans slamming them for making that decision to sit it out? Not cool.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_gold_84 on July 31, 2020, 04:42:53 PM
If I'm not mistaken, NFL players that opt out are still getting paid something like $150K. And yeah, what's with fans slamming them for making that decision to sit it out? Not cool.

They're fans but also crappy, selfish, inconsiderate humans who lack empathy and compassion.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 31, 2020, 05:04:50 PM
If I'm not mistaken, NFL players that opt out are still getting paid something like $150K. And yeah, what's with fans slamming them for making that decision to sit it out? Not cool.

Some with underlying conditions will get $350K usd. IIRC it's essentially an advance against the 2021 salary. Regardless, fans should have no issue with any player sitting out IMO.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 31, 2020, 05:31:23 PM
Imagine the player attrition if there is no 2020 season, I would guestomate 20-25% of American players on rosters last season move on with life and don't come back for 2021.  Want to talk about holes in a roster, It'll be like 2013 all over again!


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_gold_84 on July 31, 2020, 05:50:24 PM
Per Dave Naylor on Twitter: Sources say the federal government has offered to help the @CFL with a short-term loan, at a high interest rate and fees. League believes taking that kind of loan would put them in a worse position going forward. #CFL

There is probably not going to be a 2020 season if that's the best the feds can do. Meanwhile, they keep throwing money around to help out all the other industries affected by this pandemic.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Pigskin on July 31, 2020, 06:02:39 PM
Well, it doesn't look like anyone will have to worry about seating.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on July 31, 2020, 06:52:20 PM
Imagine the player attrition if there is no 2020 season, I would guestomate 20-25% of American players on rosters last season move on with life and don't come back for 2021.  Want to talk about holes in a roster, It'll be like 2013 all over again!

IIRC the Bombers have about 37 potential free agents going into 2021. That includes Canadians and Imports.

If there is no 2020 season then depth created during TC or on PR's that might become rostered players in 2021 goes to zero. Turnover could be massive going into 2021.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: dd on July 31, 2020, 08:11:54 PM
I doubt they could organize the switch in locations in time for Christmas considering how long it's taking them to get all parties to agree to the Wpg. hub concept.   Hell, I'd be happy to see an abbreviated 2020 season played indoors in Vancouver starting in Jan. or Feb....but at that point, what's the point?
You?re right, at this point in time, there is no point, the feds aren?t bailing them out, so there will be no 2020 season. Bank on it


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: BlueInCgy on July 31, 2020, 08:59:05 PM
It's unfortunate that it appears to have been posturing by all sides with the common expectation not to succeed

The League - "Unless players salaries are renegotiated and the Government helps us out, no season"

The Feds - "We didn't not offer to help, they just wanted a deal we weren't willing to make."

The Players - "We can't accept the kind of renegotiation the league want."

Anyways, hopefully it's put to rest quickly now and we can all stop wondering about 2020.  Whether or not the league exists in 2021 and what those teams look like is another problem all together, and I guess we'll find out over the next few months if the CFL fields any teams in the future, how many teams there will be, and where.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: dd on August 01, 2020, 02:05:06 AM
bang on, half hearted effort by all parties, can't be surprised nothing was resolved. The league went from talks of expansion in Halifax, to is Toronto, Montreal and BC going to make it, 2 clubs can't draw flies and one was so bad, trying to get a new ownership group and over the cap last season, concerning times indeed. We'll see how this plays out but i must say it doesn't look very bright right now


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TecnoGenius on August 01, 2020, 03:08:42 AM
From 3down: Ambrosie extended it to next week again.  BDC loan is out, they want high interest.  Maybe some other govt backed loan possible.

So basically in more dire straits than when we started the week.

Looks like the feds are content to let it wither on the vine and be the first govt in about 100 years to watch the GC not be awarded.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: ModAdmin on August 01, 2020, 03:25:41 AM
League issues statement regarding what is 'best for CFL in 2020' - July 31, 2020

TORONTO - The Canadian Football League issued the following statement Friday afternoon.

The statement reads as follows:

"We appreciate the intense interest in our league and whether we will play a shortened season this Fall.

At this time, we continue to work with all of our key stakeholders to determine what is best for the CFL in 2020 and for our long term future. We will update the media and public as we move forward.

We thank everyone, especially our players, partners and fans, for their patience, passion for our game and support for our league."

Just over a week ago, the league announced that it had decided on Winnipeg as its tentative Hub City, should a shortened season be played this year.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: bluebeard on August 01, 2020, 01:45:05 PM
Is this the beginning of the end of the CFL as we know it?  Can a league be started with just Western Canadian teams, with a different format, shortened season and mostly Canadian players as it once was?  Will fans support such a league?  Seems to me that we have out lived the "keeping up with the Jones" theory.

No football leagues are able to spend as they want and survive...except the NFL.
 ???
Can we go back to the basics to survive?


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Donny C on August 01, 2020, 02:28:10 PM
bang on, half hearted effort by all parties, can't be surprised nothing was resolved. The league went from talks of expansion in Halifax, to is Toronto, Montreal and BC going to make it, 2 clubs can't draw flies and one was so bad, trying to get a new ownership group and over the cap last season, concerning times indeed. We'll see how this plays out but i must say it doesn't look very bright right now

Toronto has the highers tv ratings, or so I have been told.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 01, 2020, 02:40:06 PM
Is this the beginning of the end of the CFL as we know it?  Can a league be started with just Western Canadian teams, with a different format, shortened season and mostly Canadian players as it once was?  Will fans support such a league?  Seems to me that we have out lived the "keeping up with the Jones" theory.

No football leagues are able to spend as they want and survive...except the NFL.
 ???
Can we go back to the basics to survive?

IMO a team with " mostly " Canadian players would fail. It essentially becomes university football and fans don't support that very well now.

This could be the end of the current CFL as we know it though. What it will look like in 2021 is difficult to know at the moment.

Whether that means folding and starting again with a new CBA / SMS, ratio and roster changes might be part of the solution.

Starting from scratch with every player becoming a free agent is a terrifying thought. It's not like there are many playing options for CFL players. High end players might see salaries forced downwards on a lower SMS.

Bombers already have their work cut out for them in 2021 with 36 or so potential free agents. Some of those are players like Antigua on 1 year deals that have yet to play. However, projected to make the roster.

Nearly our entire OL and receiver group are in the potential free agent group.

All of that is even before and new reshaping of the CFL.

None of that is a pretty thought going into next year.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on August 01, 2020, 07:46:54 PM
It's a brave new world.
Break up the Bombers, they are too good.

All teams will be in the same boat ....so it could result in super fan interest as potentially all those players  can move.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: pjrocksmb on August 01, 2020, 11:18:55 PM
This is really sad as we waiting so long for this team to gel and now it's pretty much back to square one, the wait was worth the cup but I wanted a couple.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: buckzumhoff on August 02, 2020, 02:20:30 AM
Teams like the bombers and saskatchewan should not help out Toronto or Montreal. And if the league folds. Well maybe they can find a way to start up without these teams and either expand to cities where they will make it on their own. Since the govt only helps out businesses who can get  money for a 15 per cent drop in business.  Yet cfl gets offered a high interest rate loan.  .


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 02, 2020, 01:11:16 PM
Teams like the bombers and saskatchewan should not help out Toronto or Montreal. And if the league folds. Well maybe they can find a way to start up without these teams and either expand to cities where they will make it on their own. Since the govt only helps out businesses who can get  money for a 15 per cent drop in business.  Yet cfl gets offered a high interest rate loan.  .

Relating a sports business to a restaurant, tourism, travel, retail or other year round businesses is not a fair comment as it relates to the gov't spending.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: buckzumhoff on August 02, 2020, 01:46:08 PM
Relating a sports business to a restaurant, tourism, travel, retail or other year round businesses is not a fair comment as it relates to the gov't spending.

The government makes money off sports. Alot of people are employed.   Why did  the government invest in building BC Place .?  If sports drops off any more I think Roger's and Shaw also will see alot more cancellations. Who gets the tax money from sporting events.?


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 02, 2020, 02:12:58 PM
The government makes money off sports. Alot of people are employed.   Why did  the government invest in building BC Place .?  If sports drops off any more I think Roger's and Shaw also will see alot more cancellations. Who gets the tax money from sporting events.?


Of course the gov't makes money from sports and there is significant trickle down effect.

From a priority point of view it's on the bottom rung of importance IMO.  There are any number of social issues that need money of much greater importance. Homelessness, poverty, drug problems and health coverage etc. Minimum wage job issues which lead to many of the problems listed above.

Where do you want to draw the line? The recent outcry in both Canada and USA is for greater spending and resources for mental health care. I'm all for that.

I'm a lifelong CFL fan but I think your comment was overly bias. Not many businesses I can think of that have only suffered a 15% loss of business getting gov't support.

Walk the streets or malls in any city and you will see permanent closures of long established businesses. Others operating at 50% capacity if they're lucky.

It's a serious time. Blaming the gov't?

You mentioned Rogers. A billion dollar entity. Let them loan the CFL $40M to protect their investment.







Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on August 02, 2020, 03:16:05 PM
That's a great idea.  Would a business like Rogers loan the CFL all that money to carry the league over and maintain its operational possibility?

That's beyond my understanding.

That's a lot of faith.  Has it ever been done before?

What is the figure?
Maybe. Just ask Manitoba?  Our. Provincial government "loans" the Bimbers all kinds of money.  A lot more than $42 million. Then forgives the loan.

Yo Mama. The CFL has been barking up the wrong tree.
So why wouldn't Trudeau cough up that amount.  Didn't he almost pay his Momma and his brother that amount for those inexplicably stupid "we" events?"

Bottom line - Feds should cough it up, at a rate acceptable to the CFL?  I mean just bring one more tin to the bin."

There was a comment about playing in BC place.  That's a good idea.....wherever a hub is, would make it work.
But let's get started.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 02, 2020, 04:12:32 PM
I didn't mind the objection about the gov't not helping out. It was only the characterization with the 15% comment which seemed overly bias.

Yes provincial and / or municipal  gov'ts could / should support some sports in some way. It's not an easy decision on where to draw the line.

CFL is a relatively low salary structure. OTOH, Mike Reilly earns $700K.

Would fans be as willing to see government support for the NHL which has a much higher level of salary structure.

I made the comment about BC Place early in the game and more recently when an Oct 6 start date was suggested.

In general I had said you could play an entire CFL season in BC starting on any date, eliminating weather essentially as an issue.

There are many other factors which might make it a bad decision but that's another argument.

My suggestion about Rogers or even possibly TSN is worth consideration/ discussion. Hypothetically a reduction in broadcast revenue to offset the loan should work.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: bigmoopie on August 02, 2020, 07:43:52 PM
I think it would be difficult for governments to provide funding to privately owned teams. I think if all teams were non-profit publically owned teams funding would be easier.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: pjrocksmb on August 02, 2020, 07:57:48 PM
I think it would be difficult for governments to provide funding to privately owned teams. I think if all teams were non-profit publically owned teams funding would be easier.

A critical factor.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on August 03, 2020, 10:49:32 AM
Manitoba. Pays for the Bombers to operate essentially.  Forgiving way over $42 million dollars in stadium debt.
Sam Katz owner. Of the Goldeyes pays $1.00 rental for the attached parking lot and keeps the money.
The Jets receive lottery gaming funds, tax breaks and what else? The owner is the second richest guy in Canada and Mark Chipman another millionaire.

I love them all.  However, the Winnioeg Jets players are 80% millionaires. Giving money to these owners today is really immoral,,considering Drs and nurses were laid off, bus drivers were laid off, etc.  I am sure, those guys and their pre government gifts, could support dozens of public programs.

Let alone, the Jets owners pay certain players that amount in the life of a contract.

Again the Linerals Feds should get off their *** amd. Keep on spending.  It's not like they know how to budget.  Every time they are in power they increase the deficit,...so what's the big deal?  They won't be around to deal with it anyway.

The CFL is almost a cultural icon.  Certainly there are not too many 100 year old organizations around.
Come on!


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: KINGCHARLES on August 03, 2020, 04:16:57 PM
Manitoba. Pays for the Bombers to operate essentially.  Forgiving way over $42 million dollars in stadium debt.
Sam Katz owner. Of the Goldeyes pays $1.00 rental for the attached parking lot and keeps the money.
The Jets receive lottery gaming funds, tax breaks and what else? The owner is the second richest guy in Canada and Mark Chipman another millionaire.

I love them all.  However, the Winnioeg Jets players are 80% millionaires. Giving money to these owners today is really immoral,,considering Drs and nurses were laid off, bus drivers were laid off, etc.  I am sure, those guys and their pre government gifts, could support dozens of public programs.

Let alone, the Jets owners pay certain players that amount in the life of a contract.

Again the Linerals Feds should get off their *** amd. Keep on spending.  It's not like they know how to budget.  Every time they are in power they increase the deficit,...so what's the big deal?  They won't be around to deal with it anyway.

The CFL is almost a cultural icon.  Certainly there are not too many 100 year old organizations around.
Come on!


I hate the everyone sucks the teet of the NHL.....I mean the Jets locker room could pass a hat around and save the CFL season. Imagine if CFL cities that have NHL teams were financially supported by NHL Players/owners for just one season. We could use BC as a hub city and play till the end of the year.
Im sure the Government could give the NHL players/owners a "donation tax break" and it wouldnt even hurt these players at all.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: ModAdmin on August 04, 2020, 03:20:14 AM
David William Naylor
@TSNDaveNaylor
3h
Can confirm CP report that @CFL is looking for interest-free loan of $30 million from federal government. League previously turned down BDC offer of $40+million with higher interest rate and fees. This is a last-ditch attempt to save shortened 2020 season. #CFL


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on August 04, 2020, 04:03:09 AM
Paralysis by analysis!

Enough already.

Not to much creative thinking.

A six. Game season, is a little little. Starting in October?  It's almost a joke.

How about a two part season? Mix games in The HUB
 And then twelve games in an indoor stadium HUB for Dec. and Jan ?


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: buckzumhoff on August 04, 2020, 11:20:56 AM
That would work have games in winnipeg then  move games to indoors in december. Could play more games .


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on August 04, 2020, 01:14:27 PM
David William Naylor
@TSNDaveNaylor
3h
Can confirm CP report that @CFL is looking for interest-free loan of $30 million from federal government. League previously turned down BDC offer of $40+million with higher interest rate and fees. This is a last-ditch attempt to save shortened 2020 season. #CFL

Haha - bets on how long it takes the Feds to say no? Over or under 30 seconds of reviewing that proposal?


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 04, 2020, 02:24:02 PM
Haha - bets on how long it takes the Feds to say no? Over or under 30 seconds of reviewing that proposal?

The end of 2020 CFL is near regretfully. The bigger question now is what happens in 2021. Attendance has been dropping over the years. It's going to be difficult to re-bound after losing a season even if Covid is resolved in the spring.

The financial loss across the board for teams, advertisers and broadcasters won't paint a good picture.




Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on August 04, 2020, 02:53:38 PM
Agreed!

Lots of businesses in that category.

The government, or private owners, have to answer that question......does the CFL generate secondary, tertiary, and quarterary industries?  The spin-off of game day.  Does a CFL game bring in dollars on game day for surrounding or supporting business?

If so government has to provide money. Sort of an investment.  Short term pain, but so many other jobs are created, eventual tax money will repay the investment.

I dint know why the government hasn't committed to that.m the government throws away money on charities like the symphony, ballet, and other arts groups, who while worthy to a culture, certainly don't generate the spin-off industries that a Bomber of Jet game does. This also applies to the entire league, except Toronto.

Maybe BC and Braley don't get that effect also, but the remainder of cities do.
This is perplexing.
Negotiate a better term for repayment.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: GCn19 on August 04, 2020, 02:54:00 PM
The end of 2020 CFL is near regretfully. The bigger question now is what happens in 2021. Attendance has been dropping over the years. It's going to be difficult to re-bound after losing a season even if Covid is resolved in the spring.

The financial loss across the board for teams, advertisers and broadcasters won't paint a good picture.




Like it or not, this could end up being the death of our league. We are not quite there yet, but we are not far off.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Donny C on August 04, 2020, 03:10:38 PM
Like it or not, this could end up being the death of our league. We are not quite there yet, but we are not far off.

I don't see that happening. What I could see happening is a revamp, which actually might not be bad as the business model could change to be more profitable.

Crisis forces changes that needed to be made, but have been put off.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 04, 2020, 03:21:46 PM
Like it or not, this could end up being the death of our league. We are not quite there yet, but we are not far off.

I'm more inclined to think that the league will exist but in a restructured format. IE: Changes to the SMS and possibly ratio due to declining revenues. Might even consider reducing the roster size by 4 players for example with a direct offset reduction in SMS.

Obviously the CFL is a low budget league compared to NFL, NHL, MLB or NBA.

OTOH the CFL SMS of $5.2M has become unsustainable IMO. Not just because of Covid but many other reasons.

I'm not disappointed that the league was attempting to adjust salaries upwards from the bottom. However the upper end salaries are an issue.

Yes, it's a supply and demand issue but that still has to work within any chosen SMS level.

It's a business and it's not working financially. So change the model, change the SMS.

The reality is that most CFL players won't find alternative places to play. Those that do aren't in real competition with NFL money offers anyway. Alternatively a higher SMS isn't really going to attract better talent. It's how you spend the money across the roster.

NOTE: For arguments sake I'll throw out an SMS number of $4.5M and a roster size of 42 players. Trimming 4 players eliminates $65K X 4 = $260K right off the bat of a $720K total reduction.

In better financial situations I'd be happy with increasing roster size but at the moment that's not in the cards. Teams compete against each other for top free agents but within the given SMS. Like I said it' how a given team chooses to spend money across the roster.

The current SMS allows teams to choose to compete for players like M. Reilly or BLM. OTOH, should any CFL QB make $500K - $700K?



Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 04, 2020, 03:34:47 PM
Reduced seasons in other leagues point out IMO the ridiculousness of pro sport salaries.

Can't remember the name of the particular baseball player I read about today. He choose to sit out the 2020 reduced season.

No problem with that. What I found interesting ( like driving by an accident on the freeway sort of way ) is that his salary for a REDUCED season was still $12M usd!!!!!!!!!!

Good on him for putting his family 1st.  I'm just pointing out the big league money for salaries is nuts.

The supply and the demand are constants. What leagues / owners decide to spend is based on the revenue they can get from the public / masses.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Donny C on August 04, 2020, 07:50:13 PM
Like the guy or not, he has some thoughts that make sense and Rod Pederson thinks that the season is not going to happen.

He believes that the players will decide to play, he believes that there will be financial support of some type, but he believes that some of the owners and governors do not want a season. Why? Because if there is no season (his words) all CFL contracts become null and void so that contracts that are bad for the CFL (BLM and Mike Riley type contracts will disappear and players that come back in 2021 will not be looking for such high contracts.   


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on August 04, 2020, 10:11:31 PM
Like the guy or not, he has some thoughts that make sense and Rod Pederson thinks that the season is not going to happen.

He believes that the players will decide to play, he believes that there will be financial support of some type, but he believes that some of the owners and governors do not want a season. Why? Because if there is no season (his words) all CFL contracts become null and void so that contracts that are bad for the CFL (BLM and Mike Riley type contracts will disappear and players that come back in 2021 will not be looking for such high contracts.   

I'm not sure I buy those thoughts. For one, if all contracts are null and void I think that's bad for players, teams and the league. Who wins in that scenario? All players need new deals and some won't make the same amount. Who is going to justify a raise after not playing for  18 months? Teams will have to re-sign and re-market a host of new players who fans will not be familiar with. The league would be concerned with reputation and continuity.

On the second point, BLM is still going to be worth about what he recently signed for, or close to it. His value is determined by a free market which (as long as the cap remains, and is intact) still exists.

Third, why do teams need a shutdown to get rid of those contracts? They aren't guaranteed. Calgary is free to cut BLM anytime they want. They don't need a COVID-19 shutdown to do it.

Unless the owners use this as a reason/excuse to lower the entire SMS structure significantly then I'm not sure what benefit is to them. And in order to justify a much lower SMS they are going to have to prove reduced profits and a damaged league to the PA. COVID has probably done that enough for them, I don't think they would need to do it on purpose. I could see some owners not wanting lose a lot of money to play a 2 month season without fans in Winnipeg. That's a valid concern which makes sense. But the rest of it, not logical.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TecnoGenius on August 07, 2020, 02:24:51 AM
Almost "next Friday" and still no word from the CFL or fed gov?  I wasn't able to hit the forum or read the news all week, and I come back here to find out that bupkis has happened.

Oh well... guess we'll continue waiting.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_or_die on August 07, 2020, 11:13:49 AM
The moving self-imposed deadline feels disingenuous. If they (CFL and feds) are truly doing everything they can to make something work, then I do appreciate it and hope that the date-bumping is due to progress being made. Problem with that is that it's an extremely optimistic outlook and there's no real reason to think that is the reality. And if that's the case, please put us out of our misery ASAP.

The Jets' super early elimination last night put a gaping hole in my heart and instantly reminded me that, "oh yeah, it's August and there's no Bomber ball". Just a pile-on of the misery that is 2020.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_gold_84 on August 07, 2020, 12:55:04 PM
With each passing day of nothing, the less likely a 2020 season gets. I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact there won't be any CFL in this pile of garbage that is 2020.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 07, 2020, 01:03:28 PM
There are 2 Bomber 2019 games on TSN today. Set your PVR's accordingly.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: bigbuff33 on August 07, 2020, 01:47:59 PM
Well into August and still nothing...

I even read that the NFL is looking at a possible 8 game season.

Green Bay announces no fans at first two home games...

Sad state of affairs...

Nothing much we can do but stay safe and hope for some football


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on August 07, 2020, 04:48:24 PM
There are 2 Bomber 2019 games on TSN today. Set your PVR's accordingly.
done thanks man


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on August 07, 2020, 04:50:30 PM
Well into August and still nothing...

I even read that the NFL is looking at a possible 8 game season.

Green Bay announces no fans at first two home games...

Sad state of affairs...

Nothing much we can do but stay safe and hope for some football
no cfl football for god knows how long. :'(


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Donny C on August 07, 2020, 05:12:08 PM
It's not dead yet: https://www.tsn.ca/approval-from-health-canada-crucial-for-cfl-in-quest-for-federal-money-1.1505816?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on August 07, 2020, 05:47:39 PM
Yawn!

Do it, or cancel it.
I have TV viewing plans to make!:)


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Donny C on August 07, 2020, 06:09:53 PM
It's not dead yet: https://www.tsn.ca/approval-from-health-canada-crucial-for-cfl-in-quest-for-federal-money-1.1505816?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

https://3downnation.com/2020/08/07/deputy-chief-public-health-officer-dr-howard-njoo-calls-cfl-hub-city-plan-encouraging/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TecnoGenius on August 08, 2020, 06:39:13 AM
I don't know all you negative nancies... from the little we're hearing and seeing, I'm optimistic!  You think Ambrosie wants his legacy to be that he presided over the only cancelled season in a zillion years?  Or worse, let the CFL fold completely?  Ambrosie may be a lot of things, but I have no doubt that he's a true, massive CFL fan to his very core.  I think they're working their tails off trying to get this done... give them a chance.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on August 08, 2020, 12:49:20 PM
I don't know all you negative nancies... from the little we're hearing and seeing, I'm optimistic!  You think Ambrosie wants his legacy to be that he presided over the only cancelled season in a zillion years?  Or worse, let the CFL fold completely?  Ambrosie may be a lot of things, but I have no doubt that he's a true, massive CFL fan to his very core.  I think they're working their tails off trying to get this done... give them a chance.

amen tecno


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 08, 2020, 01:17:22 PM
I don't know all you negative nancies... from the little we're hearing and seeing, I'm optimistic!  You think Ambrosie wants his legacy to be that he presided over the only cancelled season in a zillion years?  Or worse, let the CFL fold completely?  Ambrosie may be a lot of things, but I have no doubt that he's a true, massive CFL fan to his very core.  I think they're working their tails off trying to get this done... give them a chance.


The players rejected the CFL's offer. The gov't rejected the leagues financial demands.  The suggested season start of Oct 6 is absurd as well.  Nothing indicates the 2 weeks self isolation before travel has started or that travel across the border is approved.  Be optimistic if you want.

Nothing we've heard suggests anybody is working their tails off for an agreement. It's August 8.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TBURGESS on August 08, 2020, 01:59:31 PM
3DownNation @3DownNation
#Ticats all-star DB Delvin Breaux: ?#CFL told us to start looking for jobs in off-season? https://3downnation.com/2020/08/07/ticats-cornerback-delvin-breaux-hints-at-retirement-looking-for-new-career-amid-cfl-delays/
 #HamOnt


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on August 08, 2020, 02:49:34 PM
Lol!

Same old same old.....nothing.
Certainly, I would be looking for a real job.
Just sucks.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: bluebeard on August 08, 2020, 08:53:14 PM
Take this for what it is worth... in the RP show it was suggested that MLSE will take over control of the league and that there probably will be no 2020 season.  Not certain what this means but they do have the were with all to do this.  In return what would they want.  Control of course..TV rights??

Something to think about.  Good or bad?


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: dd on August 08, 2020, 10:18:21 PM
I don't know all you negative nancies... from the little we're hearing and seeing, I'm optimistic!  You think Ambrosie wants his legacy to be that he presided over the only cancelled season in a zillion years?  Or worse, let the CFL fold completely?  Ambrosie may be a lot of things, but I have no doubt that he's a true, massive CFL fan to his very core.  I think they're working their tails off trying to get this done... give them a chance.

You can be as optimistic as you want and live in denial, but with the recent outbreaks here in Manitoba, you think this is going to go through, even if the government bailed them out with massive funding--which they aren't going to do. Covid just gave them the excuse they needed. There will be no CFL in 2020. That's not negative, that's just being realistic and in tune to what the heck is going on in the world right now.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TecnoGenius on August 09, 2020, 09:26:59 AM
No one is addressing the "what if" the virus situation doesn't change by spring 2021?  2022?  What if there's this steady trickle of cases for years; what if there's no viable vaccine that actually does anything useful?

So then are we going to cancel 2021 and 2022 also?  If the situation is the same then as it is now, and they find a way to play then, then what excuse do they have for not playing now?

It's so stupid.  Figure out a way to open it up now, because there's a greater than zero chance that they'll have to figure it out for 2021 anyhow.  Let's stop cowering in fear.  Are we mice or men?  We control our own destiny, not some strand of RNA that, by some definitions, isn't even "alive".

Covid isn't going to kill a single current CFL or NFL player.  Not one.  I'll bet the house on it.  Protect the vulnerable populations, but for the rest of us looking at the 0.1% or better odds, let's get back to playing (and working, and whatever it is that you do).

Let's play ball.  I still say Ambrosie makes it happen.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 09, 2020, 01:04:18 PM
No one is addressing the "what if" the virus situation doesn't change by spring 2021?  2022?  What if there's this steady trickle of cases for years; what if there's no viable vaccine that actually does anything useful?

So then are we going to cancel 2021 and 2022 also?  If the situation is the same then as it is now, and they find a way to play then, then what excuse do they have for not playing now?

It's so stupid.  Figure out a way to open it up now, because there's a greater than zero chance that they'll have to figure it out for 2021 anyhow.  Let's stop cowering in fear.  Are we mice or men?  We control our own destiny, not some strand of RNA that, by some definitions, isn't even "alive".

Covid isn't going to kill a single current CFL or NFL player.  Not one.  I'll bet the house on it.  Protect the vulnerable populations, but for the rest of us looking at the 0.1% or better odds, let's get back to playing (and working, and whatever it is that you do).

Let's play ball.  I still say Ambrosie makes it happen.


Foolish attitude.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: bluebeard on August 09, 2020, 02:05:52 PM
I agree.  Just look at what is happening in Sturgess with the bikers.  The consequences will be seen down the road. :'(


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 09, 2020, 02:26:07 PM
Even sports that are living in bubbles have had players come down with Covid. While that may have been the result of having it prior to leaving home or due to air travel is not known.

In a few cases players have broken the bubble confinement protocols. Young players like to party and socialize etc.

The NFL is too large a group to isolate for an entire season which is currently planned. That means air travel every week for half the teams. Players will return home and / or be free to do whatever they normally do pre-covid.

It's reasonable to expect some players will become infected once the season starts. What the trickle down effect is within the teams is only speculation. Predicting there is no risk of anybody dying is more hopeful than realistic. Players dying are not the only group to consider in this equation.

Many players are still concerned about the long term safety protocols.

Keep in mind that recovering from covid can still leave people with life altering permanent side effects. That's true for both young and old people.

Counting players, coaches, refs, broadcast crews, cleaning crews there are probably 3000 - 4,000 people involved with the NFL. Calculating the contact of players outside of the game is beyond calculation.

However, 0.1% of 3,000 - 4,000 means 3 or 4 deaths based on the posters comments. 

It's not hard to see why university and college sports are being cancelled in their entirety across North America.

Short seasons in bubbles is less risk but there is still risk involved.






Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on August 09, 2020, 02:51:23 PM
You are being a little naive.

In the USA, protocols were not followed because of economic pressure .
Those southern, if not all states could not afford to stay quarantined,  or. Bars closed..or  any business for that matter.
It's. Kind of scary Americans apparently are so economically fragile.

In Canada, slightly less so.  But how long can Trudeau stick handle and give out money endlessly.  The Socialistic. History of our economy makes dealing with this 1st phase of covid,  manageable.  A less radical population also helps.

However, the long term this "hand out" support isn't sustainable. So, at some point, yeah, open up for business.  You may catch the virus, but will fight it off. Yes as was mentioned,  suseptable people will catch it, and may or may not fight it off. Worst case scenario, they may die. Just a fact of life.  Hopefully science will, prevail and produces a cure of prevention. Most people will fight it off.

That is the dilemma. The unknown isn't it?  Does society risk going back to work and likely catching it, or. Hide away.?

Smart money says cancel the season.  Painful, but at least a certain reduction in illness, and economic status.
A vaccine or cure will likely be available at the latest by Feb 2021?  Can the CFL survive? In some way.  Maybe weak teams, like in a herd of animals Die off. 

I hate Having that opinion


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: blue_gold_84 on August 09, 2020, 03:06:17 PM
Who said definitively a vaccine will be available early in 2021? That's apparently the most optimistic outlook but optimism means little in the world of science.

This pandemic has exposed what's wrong with our collective economic and societal models. And neither of those appear to be sustainable without monumental changes. The "normal" we knew six months ago is the past now.

And the attitude "people will die all the same, so let's just reopen everything" is disgusting and callous. Compassion and empathy seem elusive for many - and that's probably the worst reality being faced in 2020.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 09, 2020, 03:44:14 PM
You are being a little naive.

In the USA, protocols were not followed because of economic pressure .
Those southern, if not all states could not afford to stay quarantined,  or. Bars closed..or  any business for that matter.
It's. Kind of scary Americans apparently are so economically fragile.

In Canada, slightly less so.  But how long can Trudeau stick handle and give out money endlessly.  The Socialistic. History of our economy makes dealing with this 1st phase of covid,  manageable.  A less radical population also helps.

However, the long term this "hand out" support isn't sustainable. So, at some point, yeah, open up for business.  You may catch the virus, but will fight it off. Yes as was mentioned,  suseptable people will catch it, and may or may not fight it off. Worst case scenario, they may die. Just a fact of life.  Hopefully science will, prevail and produces a cure of prevention. Most people will fight it off.

That is the dilemma. The unknown isn't it?  Does society risk going back to work and likely catching it, or. Hide away.?

Smart money says cancel the season.  Painful, but at least a certain reduction in illness, and economic status.
A vaccine or cure will likely be available at the latest by Feb 2021?  Can the CFL survive? In some way.  Maybe weak teams, like in a herd of animals Die off. 

I hate Having that opinion

Well you're at least half right about the USA and the economic pressures. I'd say the other half are those that feel they have the right to take a " me 1st " attitude in all things.

No doubt the economic pressures are real for the entire populations.

I'd say that if more people were willing to follow some / more of the safety protocols, they'd have an opportunity to open up more or sooner.

There is no perfect solution at the moment.  Caution still needs to be taken.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on August 09, 2020, 04:32:30 PM
I agree with you guys.
I like to be aggressive and an optimist /idealist.  However, as time has progressed these last. 30 days, I find the argument against opening the CFL more logical.  As I said I Hate it.

As a SR high school teacher, and returning to school in three weeks, I wonder what the process will be, and as a type 2 diabetic with high blood pressure( all under control for many years) I now ask am I Walking into a hornets nest.?

Nothing has been directed from MB Ed or my division ...lots of scuttlebut, even other divisions have stated some plans.

But as we have been discussing, lots of uncertainty, with different beliefs.
I can only guess this is prevalent among many in society, including the CFL

What is encouraging is that the NHL has proven successful, using the basics, of social distancing, masks in cllose qtrs, and stay at home if sick.

I would think the CFL can do the same, howeber, not sure if a Winnipeg. Bubble would be liveable.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 09, 2020, 05:13:47 PM
MLB season now in jeopardy. 10+ players or staff have tested positive in St Louis. Multiple other teams have had issues and had games re-scheduled.

Where or when they decide to draw a line in the sand is a TBD.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TBURGESS on August 09, 2020, 05:34:03 PM
Covid death rate in US is about 4.88% of the population, not .1%. Half of the players are from the US.
Covid death rate in Canada is about 2.43%, not .1%. (See: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/)

It's not just the players, it's also the coaches, the doctors, the trainers and all other support staff who need to be taken into account, then it's everyone they contact. Even if no players die, they could pass it on to people who do die.

Next year we will have significantly more data regarding the pandemic. We may even have a vaccine. We will certainly know from other sports leagues that do start up this year, what works and what doesn't. The CFL can't afford an outbreak like the NFL can, because we're not made of money.

The CFL has handled the pandemic horribly so far. First they made a ridiculous ask of the federal government without even involving the PA. They've now made a realistic ask, but still haven't worked everything out with the PA. They want the government to ignore the 2 week isolation rule for players/coaches coming into Canada just so they don't have to pay the 2 week isolation. That makes financial sense, but doesn't make any pandemic sense. I for one wouldn't trust them to do everything right inside the bubble, because they obviously rank financial sense above safety.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 09, 2020, 08:02:32 PM
Covid death rate in US is about 4.88% of the population, not .1%. Half of the players are from the US.
Covid death rate in Canada is about 2.43%, not .1%. (See: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/)

It's not just the players, it's also the coaches, the doctors, the trainers and all other support staff who need to be taken into account, then it's everyone they contact. Even if no players die, they could pass it on to people who do die.

Next year we will have significantly more data regarding the pandemic. We may even have a vaccine. We will certainly know from other sports leagues that do start up this year, what works and what doesn't. The CFL can't afford an outbreak like the NFL can, because we're not made of money.

The CFL has handled the pandemic horribly so far. First they made a ridiculous ask of the federal government without even involving the PA. They've now made a realistic ask, but still haven't worked everything out with the PA. They want the government to ignore the 2 week isolation rule for players/coaches coming into Canada just so they don't have to pay the 2 week isolation. That makes financial sense, but doesn't make any pandemic sense. I for one wouldn't trust them to do everything right inside the bubble, because they obviously rank financial sense above safety.

That math is off. Population of the USA is 330,000,000 more or less. They haven't had nearly 5% of the population die.

Too many zero's not enough decimal points!!


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: DM83 on August 10, 2020, 12:31:46 AM
It seems it's the. Classic "one step forward, two steps back."
There seem to be a lot of dumb people down there! Lol!


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: TBURGESS on August 10, 2020, 02:30:55 AM
That math is off. Population of the USA is 330,000,000 more or less. They haven't had nearly 5% of the population die.

Too many zero's not enough decimal points!!
Oops. Stupid me. You're right.


Title: Re: Information on a Reduced Season
Post by: Blue In BC on August 10, 2020, 02:30:06 PM
No problem. It's staggering to think about it.  So far I don't know anybody that has had it or died from it.

On one hand I can understand people wanting / needing to get back to work regardless of the consequences.

Society can't survive indefinite quarantines and / or unemployment.

However there is a difference between taking precautions and letting the chips fall where they fall recklessly. Many decisions are big money decisions where money is talking ( NFL ) for example.

That's reckless IMO.