Blue Bombers Forum

The Extra Point => Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Cheesebuster on October 26, 2019, 06:52:56 AM



Title: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Cheesebuster on October 26, 2019, 06:52:56 AM
Both are free agents at the end of the year. Streveler too. As of right now, before the playoff game gives us more information, who would you take?

I'm still a Nichols fan. This team has done nothing but lose the last decade or so except when Nichols is playing. He ain't the flashiest QB, but I'd still want him playing over anyone else. Collaros put in a great game today though, and I expect a lot of people to give him the reigns.

What say you Bomber fans?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blitzer on October 26, 2019, 07:38:45 AM
 I wish they could keep all 3. I would chose Callaros (and Streveler) because of their scrambling ability.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: DarkDays on October 26, 2019, 12:24:49 PM
I don't envy the team this decision.  Can't keep all three, unless Zach wants to play for peanuts, or entirely for performance bonuses.

I love what Collaros brings.  He makes throws with an accuracy and power Nichols lacks.  Unfortunately, we won't have him for long.  I fear he would have a short season next year.

Nichols might have more longevity in this league, but we've seen his ceiling, and it's lower than Zachs. 

Love Strevvy as a backup.  I know the ratio rules and the stupid new "only 2 QB's" rule are going to completely screw with any plans to use him in roles other than a quarterback.  That's too bad.  If the CFL wasn't so stupid on QB rules, Stevvy would be perfect for the kinds of roles Tayson Hill gets to fulfill in New Orleans.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Old Rusty on October 26, 2019, 12:30:44 PM
I don't envy the team this decision.  Can't keep all three, unless Zach wants to play for peanuts, or entirely for performance bonuses.

I love what Collaros brings.  He makes throws with an accuracy and power Nichols lacks.  Unfortunately, we won't have him for long.  I fear he would have a short season next year.

Nichols might have more longevity in this league, but we've seen his ceiling, and it's lower than Zachs. 

Love Strevvy as a backup.  I know the ratio rules and the stupid new "only 2 QB's" rule are going to completely screw with any plans to use him in roles other than a quarterback.  That's too bad.  If the CFL wasn't so stupid on QB rules, Stevvy would be perfect for the kinds of roles Tayson Hill gets to fulfill in New Orleans.



I agree with all of these comments!  It would be great to keep all three, each brings unique strengths to the table.   We witnessed Collaros' amazing arm strength.  I forgot what it looks like to see a Winnipeg QB chuck the ball with such authority, sometimes down low and accurate, sometimes a well-placed Hail Mary.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: DarkDays on October 26, 2019, 12:42:22 PM
I agree with all of these comments!  It would be great to keep all three, each brings unique strengths to the table.   We witnessed Collaros' amazing arm strength.  I forgot what it looks like to see a Winnipeg QB chuck the ball with such authority, sometimes down low and accurate, sometimes a well-placed Hail Mary.

Zach's play made my house play a game after the final whistle:

Name the last Bomber quarterback in your memory who made throws like that?



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: limodriver on October 26, 2019, 01:11:12 PM
Khari?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: lenny on October 26, 2019, 01:14:09 PM
I'm going to veer a bit. In this order: Masoli then Collaros. Strev as backup.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: limodriver on October 26, 2019, 01:14:43 PM
Nichols wouldn't have been able to make the same TD throw to Adams, but he would have been able to get rid of the ball earlier to one of his primary receivers, and likely get the score.  Zach said that Wolitarsky was open early, but he missed it


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 26, 2019, 01:23:42 PM
Collaros injury history is still a concern. Then there is the issue of giving up a 1st round pick to re-sign him. Some posters were calling Nichols damaged due to his injury history and at this point we aren't even sure if he'll be ready for TC.

Masoli will be a potential free agent but might have the highest SMS cost but no 1st round pick involved.

Streveler is unique in a different way. He still has upside and I'd like him back.

McGuire appears to have the ability to throw. Obviously inexperienced but I'd think he'll be back to compete at TC until the dust settles at least.

Then add in the possible 2 QB roster to the equation.

It will be a big topic during the off season in Winnipeg. I have no idea who we'll end up getting.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: dd on October 26, 2019, 01:28:16 PM
It?s going to be an interesting off season as I?m sure as the playoffs play out, collaros s stock is going to rise more. We just saw his first game in over a year and the dude can still play. He?s smart, escapes pressure and continues to read the field and then tries to make plays. We haven?t seen that in like forever.

I d go hard after Collaros and failing that Masoli and get one of the 2. We need a Qb that has the escapabikity and doesn?t play like some old man back there and at the first sign of pressure or receivers covered plays it safe and throws the ball away. Throw the dam thing and give your receivers a chance to make a play on the ball. Our recievers must be elated with zack at the helm, finally they get truly involved in the game instead of running 5 yard curl patterns

Of course Toronto and Ottawa will be looking for QBs as well but I wouldn?t lose the battle for them. Perhaps Walters goes for masoli as it would save giving up a 1st round pick but I want our next Qb to have escapability, the ability to make things happen when the original play breaks down and can read a defense and right now we haven?t had that guy in decades


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: NewBlue on October 26, 2019, 01:28:39 PM
Ya, due to the conditional pick if we do sign ZC, its not worth the gamble. Gotta go with Matty & Strev.
Speaking of which did you guys see Strev on the sidelines with the "Game Manager" hat on?  LOL.

I've also liked what we've seen from McGuire....if $$ becomes an issue its possible he becomes the backup.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on October 26, 2019, 01:33:19 PM
I loved the way Collaros played last night, but that's a one in a row situation.

Without injury concerns I'd go Collaros, Streveler, Nichols
With injury concerns I'd go Arbuckle, Streveler


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on October 26, 2019, 01:34:17 PM
Nichols wouldn't have been able to make the same TD throw to Adams, but he would have been able to get rid of the ball earlier to one of his primary receivers, and likely get the score.  Zach said that Wolitarsky was open early, but he missed it

On that play Nichols would never have escaped the pass rush and if by chance he did, the only receiver he would have found would have been a spectator around row 6.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: dd on October 26, 2019, 01:43:01 PM
That?s the biggest difference, is his desire to make something happen not just go through his reads, then chuck it into the stands he didn?t want to get sacked or heaven forbid throw a pick snd tarnish his beloved stats. Make a dam play with the ball, and that?s what collaros does. He brings another dimension to the table for sure and with him, the play isn?t over if guys are covered, he tries to make things happen. and yes, he?s likely going to throw a few more picks but **** he s going to generate a ton more offense and is she i of a lot more fun to watch


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BigBomberFan on October 26, 2019, 01:45:25 PM
Tough decision. Collaros and Nichols both have a football smarts that put them neck and neck. Collaros seems to be a bit better with the accuracy on the deep ball, and his mobility in the pocket--especially that one where he rolled out and made the pass to Adams--is better. I'm thinking that he might be a bit more risky than Matt with longer throws; Nichols plays it more conservative with double coverage throws to avoid interceptions. They are both pretty much the same age, and while Collaros has the more concerning of the two's injury history, Nichols' injuries this year are concerning, plus he has a history of injury (anyone that remembers the game when he played for Edmonton where he had that horrific ankle twist injury is still one of the relatively few CFL injuries where I can remember on a short list and shudder that I'd never wish that injury upon any football player).

Nichols may have more loyalty to Winnipeg due to having been here longer and also because we committed to him as a starter in this league, however, Collaros may feel as loyal, due to that we took a chance on him when he was basically given up on, especially late in the season. If one were to write a movie script of the underdog being given another chance at redemption, the story is still writing itself here. Collaros seems to already have a great personal rapport with the players. Also, O'Shea being here or not being here next year would likely play into it.......he'd be more loyal to Nichols, as it's still Nichols' team in his eyes, whereas another coach may be more neutral. And of course, whichever QB leads us to a GC win would (you would think) obviously would get the job for next year, so it would also depend on how Collaros does in the playoffs, too.

Streveler has lots of great points, but he's just not ready to take the lead as a starter right now and needs another 1-3 years to really work on some of his instinct and decision making in game time. On the last drive last night, I was wondering if Streveler was in, whether he would have tried to make a heroic TD pass and got intercepted, and/ or left enough time on the clock for Calgary to come back. Collaros was smart to kill the clock with conservative plays that moved us as close as possible into field goal range.

The mention of Masoli is interesting. I love Masoli, but his injury this year puts him as damaged goods, plus he also likes to run, and we've seen what happens with that. Collaros, himself, started to loosen up the nuts and bolts for something to fall off by running too much, and Streveler obviously has, too.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 123James321 on October 26, 2019, 01:48:16 PM
If Collaros brings us a GC the 1st round pick and injury history won't matter... he looked like a real qb last night...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on October 26, 2019, 02:25:08 PM
 
 Evaluate Collaros on his playoff performance. Possibility if he stays healthy. Show Nichols the door. Overpaid underachiever with nice stats and no results. Also becoming fragile. Go after Masoli and bring in Condell as HC. Keep Strev for the change of pace and mix him in. Very effective that way,


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on October 26, 2019, 02:32:02 PM
IMO- the upgrade to losing our 1st round pick rules Collaros out


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on October 26, 2019, 02:42:16 PM
IMO- the upgrade to losing our 1st round pick rules Collaros out

 I would tend to agree with you. Unless Collaros performs really well in the playoffs. A couple of wins and you have to rethink his worth. A GC and he gets a statue at Portage and Main and a street named after him.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: dd on October 26, 2019, 02:47:34 PM
I agree somewhat on the 1st round pick, that will sting but if he runs the table to the grey cup I?d be willing to forgo it to keep him as we?ve seen our #1 picks are hit and miss?hello faith Ekatitie!!. But if it isn?t collaros it better be masoli or arbuckle. We need a Qb that can make things happen/buy time with his legs vs play it safe and throw the hall away. Of course nichols stats look good, he plays so consecutively throwing 6 yard curls or throwing it away that they?re going to look good. Too many good QBs available, time to bring in a 2 dimensional Qb that can extend plays and make things happen out there


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: rubanski on October 26, 2019, 02:52:13 PM
First and foremost, the #1 guy has to be your only concern. I'd go hard for Masoli. Then an Arbuckle & Collaros or Strev combo.

Nichols skills are slowly eroding. Seeing Collaros zip on the ball last night made that stick out like a sore thumb for me. Nichols = best backup QB in the league imo.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on October 26, 2019, 04:00:24 PM
I don't trust either of them to be an effective starter for a full season.

I'd be incredibly disappointed if we kept the status quo at the QB position.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Old Rusty on October 26, 2019, 04:29:30 PM
Zach's play made my house play a game after the final whistle:

Name the last Bomber quarterback in your memory who made throws like that?



Matt Dunigan?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Dodge and Burn on October 26, 2019, 04:42:55 PM
I hope we go hard after Masoli or ABuc.

I have a feeling ZC could give us a fairytale 4 game run here, but with his injury history, its too much of a gamble to hook our sled to him long term.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 26, 2019, 04:58:24 PM
I hope we go hard after Masoli or ABuc.

I have a feeling ZC could give us a fairytale 4 game run here, but with his injury history, its too much of a gamble to hook our sled to him long term.

I'd be interested in Masoli or Arbuckle as well if they become free agents. The problem is that the Argos, Bombers and Redblacks will all be in play during free agency.

Masoli will likely have the highest SMS offers and that could be $150K- $250K more than some of the others available.

Free agency will be interesting once again.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Tiger on October 26, 2019, 05:38:07 PM
Collaros injury history is still a concern. Then there is the issue of giving up a 1st round pick to re-sign him. Some posters were calling Nichols damaged due to his injury history and at this point we aren't even sure if he'll be ready for TC.

Masoli will be a potential free agent but might have the highest SMS cost but no 1st round pick involved.

Streveler is unique in a different way. He still has upside and I'd like him back.

McGuire appears to have the ability to throw. Obviously inexperienced but I'd think he'll be back to compete at TC until the dust settles at least.

Then add in the possible 2 QB roster to the equation.

It will be a big topic during the off season in Winnipeg. I have no idea who we'll end up getting.

Great points and I agree.  That said we do not know the exact injury and recovery yet of Masoli or Nichols.  Will they be a wash or Drew Brees after a suspected career ending injury? Ok not Dre Brees but you get the idea. 

I must say the way Collaros threw the ball was a thing of beauty.  He has a lot to prove.  Let?s see how he does. 


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 26, 2019, 05:57:03 PM
Loved Collaros yesterday but is this thread title serious? Collaros is damaged goods.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 26, 2019, 06:14:46 PM
Loved Collaros yesterday but is this thread title serious? Collaros is damaged goods.

That's the reality. It's such a serious risk even without giving up a 1st round pick. OTOH we don't know whether Nichols shoulder injury creates the same type of longer term problems Lulay had. Does that make him prone to problems with his throwing arm?

I suppose the same could be said about Masoli's injury. It may be more limiting for him going forward.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: bluegold4life on October 26, 2019, 06:32:26 PM
It was 1 game and to be honest Zach played a solid game and it was a great feel good story. I'm happy for Zach and the Win. I don't think I can honestly make a decision at this point in time. It's 1 game, I'll come back after the season.

My reasoning is because it's 1 game, also the feel good story of Zach is still fresh, don't want that to sway my opinion. See you after the season


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 26, 2019, 06:46:26 PM
That's the reality. It's such a serious risk even without giving up a 1st round pick. OTOH we don't know whether Nichols shoulder injury creates the same type of longer term problems Lulay had. Does that make him prone to problems with his throwing arm?

I suppose the same could be said about Masoli's injury. It may be more limiting for him going forward.



I would hitch my wagon to a shoulder injury long before i would a player who has a long history of concussions. That being said, if Collaros is willing to take backup money...I don't realistically see any scenario where any team brings him in to start.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: RebusRankin on October 26, 2019, 06:50:20 PM
I like how he played but I don't want to give up that first round pick. Rather keep adding to our NI talent. For example, Winnipeg Mason Bennett would be a nice add to our DL rotation.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 26, 2019, 07:31:18 PM
I like how he played but I don't want to give up that first round pick. Rather keep adding to our NI talent. For example, Winnipeg Mason Bennett would be a nice add to our DL rotation.

I'm not familiar with Bennett. Where we end up in the draft is still TBD as is Bennett's ranking I suppose.

Also not sure how Griffith will develop going forward or whether we look at a different position in the draft. If we lose 2 of our NI receivers that may be what we look at?  Safety is another area that might be looked at depending on what they feel Hallett and Exume can do next year.

Lots of if's and lots of time to see how things develop.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue72 on October 26, 2019, 08:18:43 PM
What if we cut Collaros at the end of the season then pick him up before someone else does, do we still have to give a 1st round player?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 26, 2019, 08:42:37 PM
What if we cut Collaros at the end of the season then pick him up before someone else does, do we still have to give a 1st round player?

Interesting question. It may be that if he actually reaches free agency then the # 1 pick consideration might be out the window.

I don't know whether cutting him and then re-signing him 10 minutes later would be in the spirit of the trade rules. That probably isn't a step I'd expect to see.

We may decide to try harder on Masoli or Arbuckle. Collaros might want to go back to Toronto or Ottawa?



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 26, 2019, 09:15:47 PM
1 Arbuckle
2 Masoli
3 Streveler
4 Nichols
5 Collaros

My wish list at the QB position next year

Not sure about Macbeth but he was free agent as well he?d be #3 on my list.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on October 26, 2019, 09:45:04 PM
I'll wait until the seasons over. I'd be happy with either Nichols or Collaros.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blueandgoldguy on October 26, 2019, 09:58:50 PM
Neither....and that's regardless of what Collaros does in the playoffs.  Arbuckle or Masoli would be my choice in the off season as a FA pickup.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Tiger on October 26, 2019, 10:10:48 PM
Neither....and that's regardless of what Collaros does in the playoffs.  Arbuckle or Masoli would be my choice in the off season as a FA pickup.

I can see you point of you, but riddle me this:  what exactly is Masoli?s injury and how is his rehab progressing?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 26, 2019, 10:49:02 PM
I can see you point of you, but riddle me this:  what exactly is Masoli?s injury and how is his rehab progressing?
ripped ACL I think. Non contact knee injury.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BLUEBOMBER on October 26, 2019, 11:31:19 PM
Nichols can be #1, Collaros can be backup. Streveler can be 3rd stringer for QB sneaks, or change to be a Full back. Imagine a Harris and Streveler combo.. DCs will lose sleep every game thinking about how to defend against both. Or Strev can be a WR... lots of options..


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Tiger on October 26, 2019, 11:52:49 PM
ripped ACL I think. Non contact knee injury.

You are correct in that is what we were told in July.  But we have heard zip since then.  Reports are not always accurate. 


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Doublezero on October 27, 2019, 12:54:54 AM
Sorry to say it but Nichols hasn't been the same since his non-contact knee injury last year.
And now questions around a damaged throwing shoulder as well.
This is Travis Lulay-esque. Not starting anywhere is the likelihood.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: dd on October 27, 2019, 03:26:41 AM
I agree. There?s too many better and younger Qbs available to not make the switch this off season.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: DM83 on October 27, 2019, 09:45:10 AM
Collaros seems to make quicker knowledgeable decisions and seems way quicker in his throwing motion, ..... now that guy is worth the money!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on October 27, 2019, 12:19:51 PM
Nichols can be #1, Collaros can be backup. Streveler can be 3rd stringer for QB sneaks, or change to be a Full back. Imagine a Harris and Streveler combo.. DCs will lose sleep every game thinking about how to defend against both. Or Strev can be a WR... lots of options..
Not a chance. All 3 will want starting money and there will only be 2 QB spots next year anyway.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: DM83 on October 27, 2019, 01:03:15 PM
I agree,
I don't see Nichols. Or Strev back here.

It will,be a great off-season with potential QBs.  Additionally, the Bombers look like they will have a huge turnover as well.

I think it's time to invest in a younger future QB.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: thunderNlightning on October 27, 2019, 01:18:40 PM
Streveler has to rely on his running game to be successful in this league because he is not a passer. That?s going to mean his longevity and beating game in and game out will certainly mean he will take a pounding and miss games. I?d pass.

Nichols with this arm injury and knee issues at his age is going to be a major concern. Do you invest starter money in a QB with that history not even knowing how his shoulder holds up along with the fact he?s not a running QB not a high yardage passer in this league which relies on passing majority of the time. I?d pass.

Time to get someone in here younger with upside and start building around them.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: bigbuff33 on October 27, 2019, 01:18:51 PM
It was great to see Zach play so well...
But with all due respect to him...
We can't take a chance investing big $ on him...he's one hit away from season ending injury...
I'd be happy with either Mazzoli or Nichols...
Strev isn't a pro QB...he's good for the short yardage...but not much else


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 27, 2019, 01:34:39 PM
Lots of harsh comments about many different QB's. The injury histories and SMS factors are going to weigh in heavily making a sound decision going forward.  Can't deny much of what is being said.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on October 27, 2019, 02:24:58 PM
So the question was Nichols or Collaros. So if this was the only two choice I had it would have to be Collaros. Lucky for the bombers it not, so neither. Both can still play the game. But both have there issues. I think if we invest in either one of these guys we will be looking for a starting QB again part way through the season. Both should consider becoming backups and extending there careers like KG did. After watch parts of each game yesterday there is some great young talent in the CFL.

Evans
Fajardo
Arbuckle
Shiltz



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: thurmas on October 27, 2019, 02:45:41 PM
Collaros is much more dynamic than Nichols. Both have injury problems but Collaros is 3 years younger. Nichols had a noodle arm to begin with and now a shoulder injury no thanks. Nichols just beats up on sub .500 teams to pad his stats but he is not clutch and rarely beat teams like Calgary what you have to do to advance out of the west every year. Look how many CFL 1st round picks have been a bust I am not too worried about losing that. Resign Collaros on an incentive based contract and develop Burke as 2nd string. Strev is the Tim Tebow of CFL qb's defensive coordinators have figured him out and he has not displayed any ability to read pass coverages.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on October 27, 2019, 03:33:37 PM
Burke????


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Point of attack on October 27, 2019, 06:13:55 PM
Realistically Collaros performance for the remainder of the season will likely be the biggest factor in the decision to keep him under centre moving forward. Given the BB history of success luring FA QBs I can see them with some form of incentive based contracts for either MN or ZC or possibly both ( not likely) not impossible because it?s hard to imagine either commanding a big number in FA.
 With two practices and a cup of coffee Collaros just beat the elite team of the CFL so i would suggest it?s already his job to lose right or wrong.
  For many watching Collaros QB play in blue and gold was borderline surreal and if that doesn?t illustrate the long suffering search for a decent QB by this organization and fan base I don?t know what does. The fact we all feel some loyalty to MN(with limited success at best) further reinforces this point.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 27, 2019, 06:58:21 PM
2 QB roster rule NEEDS to be changed to allow 3. 2 makes zero sense to me. To much risk with all these injuries occurring.

I don?t think this will happen but it very well could with Streveler and Nichols not here next year.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on October 27, 2019, 07:13:01 PM
2 QB roster rule NEEDS to be changed to allow 3. 2 makes zero sense to me. To much risk with all these injuries occurring.

I don?t think this will happen but it very well could with Streveler and Nichols not here next year.
I totally agree about the 2 QB rule. Whether we re-sign Collaros or Nichols with their injury history we need a #2 QB who can come in and play. I'm not sure that's Streveler.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: thurmas on October 27, 2019, 07:16:16 PM
Will not shock me to see both Nichols and O'Shea head to Toronto this offseason, Lapo takes over as HC while we try to resign Collaros or go after Masoli and Arbuckle.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: RebusRankin on October 27, 2019, 08:19:16 PM
Lapo as head coach would be an awful decision.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: pjrocksmb on October 27, 2019, 08:23:57 PM
There are so many QB floating around so it's not as simple as the choice between these two.  The 1st round pick is major factor in our path going forward.

I want one vet and one prospect in our QB ranks next year and we can't overpay for either.  The names we go with are important but the amount of salary they demand is a major factor.  I think most teams next year will be in good shape next year at QB as we have lots of new talent come in.  Great time to be a Bomber fan and great for the league.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Waffler on October 27, 2019, 08:32:33 PM
Hasn't Pinball already tampered concerning Collaros?

?He needs that opportunity to be put in that position where he can play a game that matters and we get a draft choice for that. If he happens to do well there and stay there then we get a number one in addition to that,? Clemons said on 620 CKRM radio in Regina.

?But we do have a pretty good feeling that he wants to be in Ontario. So it?s a little bit like a hired gun. We believe and desire to sign him back. We have a really good chance in the off-season of securing him back.?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: pjrocksmb on October 27, 2019, 09:10:55 PM
Hasn't Pinball already tampered concerning Collaros?

?He needs that opportunity to be put in that position where he can play a game that matters and we get a draft choice for that. If he happens to do well there and stay there then we get a number one in addition to that,? Clemons said on 620 CKRM radio in Regina.

?But we do have a pretty good feeling that he wants to be in Ontario. So it?s a little bit like a hired gun. We believe and desire to sign him back. We have a really good chance in the off-season of securing him back.?


interesting, I hear his family is settled there and he has a house


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue72 on October 27, 2019, 10:28:03 PM
If MOS goes to Tor. does he take Nichols or does Pin Ball take Collaros? Will Streveler stay or will he try for a starting job or a big pay check and will Woli follow him?

It was amazing the game plan Lapo had with Collaros playing with just 2 practices, it wasn't the 3-5 yard passing game plan and all the receivers were involved. There wasn't any or very little vanilla called plays plus you never knew where the ball would go to. we are so used to see hand off, hand off then 3-5 yard throws for 2 and 10. Now is it Nichols or Lapo that has been holding this team back?
With a good QB this team will be able to bring in better receivers plus other players.

So the question after this season is do we move on from MOS, Nichols and the old play book (offensive/Defensive) and maybe spend some money and bring in a decent coaching staff? I guess we see what happens after the season is over. Get a good coaching staff and maybe it will bring in better FA.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on October 27, 2019, 10:42:30 PM
Hasn't Pinball already tampered concerning Collaros?

?He needs that opportunity to be put in that position where he can play a game that matters and we get a draft choice for that. If he happens to do well there and stay there then we get a number one in addition to that,? Clemons said on 620 CKRM radio in Regina.

?But we do have a pretty good feeling that he wants to be in Ontario. So it?s a little bit like a hired gun. We believe and desire to sign him back. We have a really good chance in the off-season of securing him back.?


 Completely unethical to discuss a player, under contract to another club, in this fashion. He is indirectly influencing the player not to re-sign, with the implied promise of a contract if he does not. If this is not tampering it is pretty darn close.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 27, 2019, 10:56:02 PM
Pinball likely has a real hard time doing this but he has got to just shut up and concern himself with the debacle that is the current state of the Argos.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: dd on October 27, 2019, 10:59:42 PM
There?s no tampering going on. Everyone and their brother knows that the bombers give up a 3rd round pick in the trade for collaros to play with the bombers for the remainder of this season and if he signs here for next season that pick changes to a 1st round pick. Cut and dry


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on October 27, 2019, 11:02:06 PM
There?s no tampering going on. Everyone and their brother knows that the bombers give up a 3rd round pick in the trade for collaros to play with the bombers for the remainder of this season and if he signs here for next season that pick changes to a 1st round pick. Cut and dry
Already looks like it worked out in our favour!!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 27, 2019, 11:04:34 PM
Already looks like it worked out in our favour!!
I think we need a playoff win to say the trade was a success.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 27, 2019, 11:14:53 PM
So the question was Nichols or Collaros. So if this was the only two choice I had it would have to be Collaros. Lucky for the bombers it not, so neither. Both can still play the game. But both have there issues. I think if we invest in either one of these guys we will be looking for a starting QB again part way through the season. Both should consider becoming backups and extending there careers like KG did. After watch parts of each game yesterday there is some great young talent in the CFL.

Evans
Fajardo
Arbuckle
Shiltz

Beware the fate of the RB's, they let Trevor Harris walk away and thought they would be okay with discarded scraps.

Beware the ordeal of the 2014 Bombers, they lost out on the Collaros and Burris auctions and settled for Willy.


Evans Not available
Fajardo Not available
Arbuckle
Shiltz.....really???


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 27, 2019, 11:54:46 PM
Beware the fate of the RB's, they let Trevor Harris walk away and thought they would be okay with discarded scraps.

Beware the ordeal of the 2014 Bombers, they lost out on the Collaros and Burris auctions and settled for Willy.


Evans Not available
Fajardo Not available
Arbuckle
Shiltz.....really???
no Masoli or Macbeth?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 28, 2019, 12:01:15 AM
no Masoli or Macbeth?

I believe that will be the Argos QB lineup for the 2020 season, the Bombers aren't going to outbid them for Masoli and the Argos would be crazy to let a reliable/inexpensive backup like MBT walk away.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 28, 2019, 12:21:06 AM
I believe that will be the Argos QB lineup for the 2020 season, the Bombers aren't going to outbid them for Masoli and the Argos would be crazy to let a reliable/inexpensive backup like MBT walk away.
mmm I don?t think it will be quite that simple.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on October 28, 2019, 02:08:35 AM
There?s no tampering going on. Everyone and their brother knows that the bombers give up a 3rd round pick in the trade for collaros to play with the bombers for the remainder of this season and if he signs here for next season that pick changes to a 1st round pick. Cut and dry

 Tampering is negotiating with a player under contract with another team. Doing it through the media does not mitigate it. Pinballs comments are akin to a contract offer. If he plays well we want him in Toronto next year is what he is outright saying. What everyone knows is of no consequence, nor are draft picks. Collaros is under contract with Winnipeg. Pinball can make a play for him when he becomes an FA.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 28, 2019, 02:39:22 AM
Tampering is negotiating with a player under contract with another team. Doing it through the media does not mitigate it. Pinballs comments are akin to a contract offer. If he plays well we want him in Toronto next year is what he is outright saying. What everyone knows is of no consequence, nor are draft picks. Collaros is under contract with Winnipeg. Pinball can make a play for him when he becomes an FA.

It is a weird deal, Collaros is headed for F.A. so the Bombers would have to negotiate a new contract to re-sign him and yet there is this clause hanging over their heads that does not apply to any other team.  I don't know, but maybe the clause is only valid if they re-sign him before F.A. kicks in?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Point of attack on October 28, 2019, 03:20:28 AM
It is a weird deal, Collaros is headed for F.A. so the Bombers would have to negotiate a new contract to re-sign him and yet there is this clause hanging over their heads that does not apply to any other team.  I don't know, but maybe the clause is only valid if they re-sign him before F.A. kicks in?

Can?t see the BB not being on the hook for 1st rounder either way since there?s nothing to stop the BB from
A previously agreed to unsigned deal in Walters desk drawer as it were.
 In any case if Collaros emerges as the BBs best option it?s hard to imagine the Argos outbidding Walters for his services but stranger things have happened I guess.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: iso_55 on October 28, 2019, 04:06:34 AM
Zach's play made my house play a game after the final whistle:

Name the last Bomber quarterback in your memory who made throws like that?



Tom Clements


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on October 28, 2019, 04:29:10 AM
It is a weird deal, Collaros is headed for F.A. so the Bombers would have to negotiate a new contract to re-sign him and yet there is this clause hanging over their heads that does not apply to any other team.  I don't know, but maybe the clause is only valid if they re-sign him before F.A. kicks in?

 I guess that would be how it works. Re-signing would preclude free agency. I do not see him as wanting to be here, and he will likely go to FA. Especially if he keeps showing game. That being said, Clemons should keep his mouth shut. It is disrespectful. Almost like he is saying that they sent him to Winnipeg to get up to speed so he can play for the Argos next year. Bothers me.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: ModAdmin on October 28, 2019, 04:35:48 AM
Facts....

Collaros is a QB with a lot of talent and is a proven winner
Collaros has been cleared by doctors to play
Collaros is currently a Blue Bomber
Collaros is arguably the best talent we currently have at the QB position
Collaros is someone we need to pursue because of all of the above.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on October 28, 2019, 04:47:48 AM

 So much depends on who the HC is next year. MOS has ties to Collaros, but he is, unfortunately, a Nichols guy. Get rid of MOS and we can really start looking to upgrade the QB spot. If he is here, it will be status quo and the team will not take a run at Collaros or any other quality starter.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: jammer316 on October 28, 2019, 09:31:41 AM
Well i am the first to admit when wrong and i thought colleros would be a injured first quarter,Well he looked pretty good a bit of rust but you could see he was making good reads and could scramble.Would start him over all our QBs but knowing pig headed O'shea he will start streveler if he is healthy and Streveler just can't pass like colleros


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 28, 2019, 10:12:03 AM
Facts....

Collaros is a QB with a lot of talent and is a proven winner
Collaros has been cleared by doctors to play
Collaros is currently a Blue Bomber
Collaros is arguably the best talent we currently have at the QB position
Collaros is someone we need to pursue because of all of the above.
j

Fact: Collaros has an extensive concussion history that has to be considered making him a very high risk signing


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: pjrocksmb on October 28, 2019, 11:25:31 AM
Facts....

Collaros is a QB with a lot of talent and is a proven winner
Collaros has been cleared by doctors to play
Collaros is currently a Blue Bomber
Collaros is arguably the best talent we currently have at the QB position
Collaros is someone we need to pursue because of all of the above.
One game and now this lol
j

Fact: Collaros has an extensive concussion history that has to be considered making him a very high risk signing

Agree


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: thunderNlightning on October 28, 2019, 12:30:07 PM
j

Fact: Collaros has an extensive concussion history that has to be considered making him a very high risk signing

To be fair tho, any of those hits he took most QB?s would get concussions as they were nasty and dirty leading to susupensions. The couple hits he took Friday showed a glimmer of hope that he can still take a hit and get right back up.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 28, 2019, 12:37:29 PM
To be fair tho, any of those hits he took most QB?s would get concussions as they were nasty and dirty leading to susupensions. The couple hits he took Friday showed a glimmer of hope that he can still take a hit and get right back up.

I don't disagree that the hits were hellacious and would have taken anyone out. However, HE is the one that ended up taking them and the damage that went with it. Does it suck that Collaros has a vast concussion history...sure...but I would be PO'ed if the Bombers chose to roll the dice on him as anything more than a back up. I don't care how good he is or might be. It does us no good to roll the dice like that.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on October 28, 2019, 01:40:32 PM
He has won one game and we are naming him the King of the North. I think I will wait a game or two more.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 28, 2019, 02:00:57 PM
He has won one game and we are naming him the King of the North. I think I will wait a game or two more.

Hopefully THREE games more.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 28, 2019, 03:28:57 PM
I don't disagree that the hits were hellacious and would have taken anyone out. However, HE is the one that ended up taking them and the damage that went with it. Does it suck that Collaros has a vast concussion history...sure...but I would be PO'ed if the Bombers chose to roll the dice on him as anything more than a back up. I don't care how good he is or might be. It does us no good to roll the dice like that.

Probably $400k-$450k tied up in that gamble too, if Collaros gets knocked out early in the season (again), not only are they short a starting QB, they won't have the budget to pay for a well seasoned replacement.  Best case scenario is hanging onto Strevler as a backup in the hope of his further improvement to either Nichols or Collaros.  A Nichols/Collaros combo. would be excellent but cost prohibitive, it would harken back to Burgess/Hufnagel era of two equally talented QB's leading the team.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blueraid on October 28, 2019, 03:48:23 PM
Streveler is getting better and maturing more as a qb. every time out ...a Collaros /Streveler combo next year works for me....Nichols will be the odd man out especially IF Collaros takes this team a long way in the post season...As far as comparing their health....seems to me Nichols is as brittle and is as susceptible to injury as is Collaros...I think Collaros is the superior qb. and money wise it would work with a Zack/Chris combo...Walters I'm sure will have a serious look at it for next year


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: ModAdmin on October 28, 2019, 03:49:39 PM
One game and now this lol
Agree

"This" is not based on one game.  It's his playing history.  There is always a  risk with concussions but he has been medically cleared.  He is going to be a much sought-after player in FA.  Why should we not be in the mix?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 28, 2019, 03:56:48 PM
"This" is not based on one game.  It's his playing history.  There is always a  risk with concussions but he has been medically cleared.  He is going to be a much sought-after player in FA.  Why should we not be in the mix?

Because of his concussion history he will not be as sought after as you think. I would be shocked if any GM in the CFL were to hand him the keys to the offence this offseason. Medically cleared or not, there is an extremely high likelihood that he will be concussed at some point next season and that given his history he will have to miss a ton of time to recover.

Is he a good QB...sure. Unfortunately, that is trumped by the risks now.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Horseman on October 28, 2019, 04:00:48 PM
I was against Collaros coming here b/c of his concussion history (3 concussions), however, after seeing him play after only having 2 practices, he displayed what an actual talented QB can do for us. I would still give him the remainder of our games left (probably 1 and done, as our D is not championship calibre) to see how he does moving the O. If he does well then I would say go with Collaros over Nicholls and pay the 1st round draft choice. Nicholls has been injured the last 2 years which seems to be a pattern for him now. If we sign Collaros and he gets injured we 6 game him and save the SMS hit for his salary same as we would do when Nicholls gets hurt. In my opinion, Collaros is an upgrade over Nicholls and the injury worry is about the same between the two. Collaros knows he needs to protect himself and slide early and I think he will do this, which will limit his risk for another concussion.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blueraid on October 28, 2019, 04:02:05 PM
Collaros has been cleared medically....AND name me a starter from any club in this league this year that hasn't been on the sidelines for a stretch...Not suggesting Collaros will be, but every qb. has the potential of being 6 gamed...Nature of the game now it seems


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Nic16 on October 28, 2019, 04:04:43 PM
Collaros will without doubt go back to Toranna. The 1st rd draft choice in the deal was the assurance.

My hope is we make a move on Masoli. I think he would be a very good compliment to Strev and a good fit for LaPo?s O.

Failing that...Arbuckle is a very-very close 2nd choice.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: bomb squad on October 28, 2019, 04:24:58 PM
j

Fact: Collaros has an extensive concussion history that has to be considered making him a very high risk signing

No doubt about that, right now that is. But this could be a make or break time for Collaros's career. No, he didn't exactly light it up last game. But he did move the sticks reasonably well, looked poised and confident, and made plays off scrambles, like at the peak of his career. He also lead his team on a game winning drive against the best defence in the league. All of this after 2 practices with a new team and only 3 downs of real football this year.

Most importantly however, is he took a big hit and bounced right back up. That was for sure the best thing that happened for him.

Ultimately, he's not in control. It was only one game, but he took advantage of what he could control on Friday. Under the circumstances, it probably couldn't have gone much better for one Zach Collaros. Every playoff game he plays and finishes from here, if he gets the chance that is, that risk consideration goes down exponentially. So too, will his stock rise.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on October 28, 2019, 05:00:15 PM
If he wins three more games, we can rank him right up there with Kawhi and name him the new King in the North.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on October 28, 2019, 05:07:11 PM
Both are injury prone but serviceable. Collaros probably has a higher ceiling but lower floor. I'm not convinced either are optimal choices to win Grey Cups and be perennial favourites. I guess you keep Nichols over Collaros. He doesn't cost a first-round pick and although he's had a ton of injuries he's likely not a high hit away from calling his career. I think that as the result of this exercise, it's more obvious that we need to upgrade the QB spot.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BlueInCgy on October 28, 2019, 05:08:25 PM
I don't know if I'd pick either at this point for next year.  Nichols has a higher likelihood of actually being able to get an entire season in, but Collaros is the better QB between the two.

If the Bombers washout in the WSF, I don't think Collaros hangs around, and his pricetag probably drops into the sub $400K area, strictly as a risk based decision.  He will get picked up for sure, probably by Ottawa or Toronto.

Bombers make it to the GC based on QB numbers we haven't seen in a while but lose, and his return is possibly slightly higher than Nichols, because there will be a belief that he is (and he might me) the piece of the puzzle we've been missing for a while.

Bombers win the GC with Zach, and he's going to go for the highest possible contract he can get, and I don't think the Bombers win that bid.  Seems like an Ottawa or Toronto destination in that scenario as well.

Combos I'd like to see

Arbucle/Collaros (but I don't think Zach would take 2nd spot, and I don't think Arbuckle would come here as #2)
Masoli/Streveler

What I think we'll see

Nichols/McGuire

MBT/Streveler


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 28, 2019, 05:27:38 PM
Collaros has been cleared medically....AND name me a starter from any club in this league this year that hasn't been on the sidelines for a stretch...Not suggesting Collaros will be, but every qb. has the potential of being 6 gamed...Nature of the game now it seems

Collaros missed almost the entire season with a concussion. Concussion recovery times only get longer and longer. If he sustains a concussion again it is almost certain he is gone for the season. Yes, every QB got knocked out this year and that is an anomaly. What is not an anomaly is concussions ending careers. That being said if he were willing to take a low base salary with little money upfront incentive based contract, and we could bring back Nichols or Streveler on the same...sure that might be OK.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 28, 2019, 05:41:29 PM
Collaros will without doubt go back to Toranna. The 1st rd draft choice in the deal was the assurance.

My hope is we make a move on Masoli. I think he would be a very good compliment to Strev and a good fit for LaPo?s O.

Failing that...Arbuckle is a very-very close 2nd choice.
I agree but I think Arbuckle would be cheaper and has more upside overall.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 28, 2019, 05:43:28 PM
I don't know if I'd pick either at this point for next year.  Nichols has a higher likelihood of actually being able to get an entire season in, but Collaros is the better QB between the two.

If the Bombers washout in the WSF, I don't think Collaros hangs around, and his pricetag probably drops into the sub $400K area, strictly as a risk based decision.  He will get picked up for sure, probably by Ottawa or Toronto.

Bombers make it to the GC based on QB numbers we haven't seen in a while but lose, and his return is possibly slightly higher than Nichols, because there will be a belief that he is (and he might me) the piece of the puzzle we've been missing for a while.

Bombers win the GC with Zach, and he's going to go for the highest possible contract he can get, and I don't think the Bombers win that bid.  Seems like an Ottawa or Toronto destination in that scenario as well.

Combos I'd like to see

Arbucle/Collaros (but I don't think Zach would take 2nd spot, and I don't think Arbuckle would come here as #2)
Masoli/Streveler

What I think we'll see

Nichols/McGuire

MBT/Streveler

so where does Arbuckle and Masoli go then to you?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blueraid on October 28, 2019, 07:28:38 PM
I think Masoli ends up in the Big Smoke...Arbuckle to Ottawa....Seems Mont. is satisfied with Adams...Reilly is going nowhere...Bo Levi is definitely a Stamp...TiCats run with Evans....Fajardo just re-uppped in Sask.....Edmonton is going to go with Harris....AND that leaves us...IF Collaros does well the rest of the season, I'd say he will get a shot here as all other teams will be set...I don't think T.O. will be as interested in reacquiring Zach IF they can sign Masoli who is entrenched in the east and does not have concussion problems...So do we take a chance on Collaros....I think we do if he can continue to be the quarterback we saw the other night...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on October 28, 2019, 07:38:09 PM
Both Collaros and Nichols have injury risks. Collaros with his concussion history, although I trust the doctors that told him it was alright to return to playing and Nichols has had knee injuries and now has had surgery on his throwing shoulder. As for Masoli do we know if he'll be ready for the start of the season and I haven't seen enough of Arbuckle to name him #1. I still say we sign either Nichols or Collaros.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: bluebeard on October 28, 2019, 07:41:01 PM
Collaros missed almost the entire season with a concussion. Concussion recovery times only get longer and longer. If he sustains a concussion again it is almost certain he is gone for the season. Yes, every QB got knocked out this year and that is an anomaly. What is not an anomaly is concussions ending careers. That being said if he were willing to take a low base salary with little money upfront incentive based contract, and we could bring back Nichols or Streveler on the same...sure that might be OK.
You are right that he missed most of the season but I am not certain that this was due to the concussion.  I read that he was ready to play for the Riders after his 6 game injury was completed but that Fajardo had taken his job away from him.  Traded to TO under an escalating clause which would have taken TOs 4 round pick to 2nd round pick depending on how much Collaros played.

By this time TO only had an outside chance of making the playoffs.  They got a great deal from us (1st round pick if he re-signs with us) would almost guarantee that he goes back to TO.

So again, I see this differently than most fans.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BlueInCgy on October 28, 2019, 07:47:56 PM
so where does Arbuckle and Masoli go then to you?

Masoli goes TO or OTT.
Loser of that scenario gets either Collaros or Arbuckle.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on October 28, 2019, 07:48:58 PM
I liked what I saw from Collaros, but would folks be so up on Collaros if Calgary could simple kick the convert meaning we lost the game?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on October 28, 2019, 07:55:11 PM
I liked what I saw from Collaros, but would folks be so up on Collaros if Calgary could simple kick the convert meaning we lost the game?
Well I would be. IMO this is the best QBing I've seen here in a while especially considering that he only had 2 days practice. He won me over with the TD pass to Adams where I was yelling to throw the ball away but I was glad that he kept the play alive with his feet and found Adams for the TD.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: bluebeard on October 28, 2019, 08:01:56 PM
Very good play by Collaros.  He looked like the old version of Collaros before all his injury problems.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BlueInCgy on October 28, 2019, 08:14:09 PM
I liked what I saw from Collaros, but would folks be so up on Collaros if Calgary could simple kick the convert meaning we lost the game?

Win or lose, with the exact same performance by the Bombers, I suspect the reaction for Collaros would be similar, simply because we saw something in his performance we haven't seen in a while - an offense that wasn't solely based around running plays on very short notice.  It gives a little more hope, as faint as it might be.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: buckzumhoff on October 28, 2019, 09:03:49 PM
I like Nichols . Streveller and McGuire. If we get Collaros that would be good. But Ottawa, Toronto, BC might be looking and Hamilton wont let Masoli go. I don't like Arbuckle or Masoli


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on October 28, 2019, 09:22:21 PM
Well I would be. IMO this is the best QBing I've seen here in a while especially considering that he only had 2 days practice. He won me over with the TD pass to Adams where I was yelling to throw the ball away but I was glad that he kept the play alive with his feet and found Adams for the TD.
That play was great. Kinda reminded me of Clements, but I'm not sure he'd complete it more than 50% of the time.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue72 on October 28, 2019, 09:47:47 PM
As mentioned earlier that with Nichols we will see short passes and a lot of running plays. He doesn't run or look down field when in trouble and would rather throw the ball into the stands. Nichols and Streveler both take longer than most to get rid of the ball and don't look for that 3rd or 4th receiver.

Would you pay Nichols $500,000 plus next year because that is what he will want since he is about $475K now, no thankyou. He is not worth any more then $425,000 until he could prove that he could last a whole year and take us at least to the grey cup.

Streveler needs at least another 2 years and a better QB coach to even try and make a move up the ladder to be a starter. Now he would rather run plus his throws need a lot of work and also his reading of the defense.

I would like to see what McGuire has because our backups usually doesn't see the field much and he was pretty good on short yardage plus he has a strong arm.

We need a lot better coaching and a lot better QBing then we had the last 5 years, other teams could find them.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: dd on October 28, 2019, 10:25:51 PM
I d go after collaros, masoli and Arbuckle in that order and get one of the 3. We have to move on from conservative, play it safe, throw the ball away type Qbing, we need someone who can make things happen like collaros just did.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: dd on October 28, 2019, 10:28:56 PM
That play was great. Kinda reminded me of Clements, but I'm not sure he'd complete it more than 50% of the time.
Tommy Clements is my favourite bomber of all time. I loved his roll out, but some time, we throw on the run style. He made things happen and back then, we had Willard Reaves who was a beast of a runningback and there was no 5 yard check downs 2 of 3 plays and throwing out of bounds when nothing was there, MAKE something happen!!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: RebusRankin on October 28, 2019, 10:37:24 PM
So people want Collaros even though it costs us our first rounder and he's got a terrible injury history?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 28, 2019, 10:50:22 PM
So people want Collaros even though it costs us our first rounder and he's got a terrible injury history?
NO


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Tiger on October 28, 2019, 11:09:37 PM
Uh Guys, it was only one game.  Let?s see if Collaros plays next game and how he does.   He has a lot to prove. 


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: pjrocksmb on October 28, 2019, 11:38:45 PM
"This" is not based on one game.  It's his playing history.  There is always a  risk with concussions but he has been medically cleared.  He is going to be a much sought-after player in FA.  Why should we not be in the mix?
One reason is "the mix" costs us a 1st rounder.

Because of his concussion history he will not be as sought after as you think. I would be shocked if any GM in the CFL were to hand him the keys to the offence this offseason. Medically cleared or not, there is an extremely high likelihood that he will be concussed at some point next season and that given his history he will have to miss a ton of time to recover.

Is he a good QB...sure. Unfortunately, that is trumped by the risks now.
truth is spoken above

So people want Collaros even though it costs us our first rounder and he's got a terrible injury history?
yeah people are getting desperate around here and blinded by one victory, pretty classic reaction for this place.  Happy for the guy, hope it continues and wish him a long career but I don't think he is worth the trouble (pick + risk of injury).
Uh Guys, it was only one game.  Let?s see if Collaros plays next game and how he does.   He has a lot to prove. 
ring a ding dong dandy LOL (aka, I agree)


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Tiger on October 29, 2019, 12:16:02 AM
. ring a ding dong dandy LOL (aka, I agree)

😂😂😂😂

I hope MOS plays Collaros and uses Streveler as a change up.  A second and short would be perfect to have Streveler in, the formation tighten up, have man cover and throw a 50/50 ball.  The question is to who? I think Adams.  He has played good defence when he did not have position.  Maybe Lawler or Wolitarski, especially if big height difference. 


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: ichabod_crane on October 29, 2019, 12:22:10 AM
If Collaros leads the Bombers all the way he will be crowned King of the city! Almost have to resign him then. A lot of this I think will depend on how things play out in the playoffs. Nichols not exactly injury free either over his career. Maybe that shoulder never fully recovers, who knows? He could be washed up like Khari Jones was the end of his career and could not throw a beach ball by that point. No arm strength was left. If O'Shea is gassed before next season then any new incoming coach is not beholden to any prior players either.

Streveler obviously at best a backup in Winnipeg or elsewhere in his career as it stands right now. Not ready for prime time yet. Needs a LOT of work on his passing game and reads. Will make for interesting debate up to and even after free agency begins. Masoli and Arbuckle free agents too if not resigned by their teams. I remember Masoli looked somewhat similar to Streveler early in his career. He was not the best passer (although had arm strength), but his reading of coverage was poor and very risky passes too if not outright lame ducks in double/triple coverage. Took him several years to improve in that area.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Tiger on October 29, 2019, 12:30:49 AM
If Collaros leads the Bombers all the way he will be crowned King of the city! Almost have to resign him then. A lot of this I think will depend on how things play out in the playoffs. Nichols not exactly injury free either over his career. Maybe that shoulder never fully recovers, who knows? He could be washed up like Khari Jones was the end of his career and could not throw a beach ball by that point. No arm strength was left. If O'Shea is gassed before next season then any new incoming coach is not beholden to any prior players either.

Streveler obviously at best a backup in Winnipeg or elsewhere in his career as it stands right now. Not ready for prime time yet. Needs a LOT of work on his passing game and reads. Will make for interesting debate up to and even after free agency begins. Masoli and Arbuckle free agents too if not resigned by their teams. I remember Masoli looked somewhat similar to Streveler early in his career. He was not the best passer (although had arm strength), but his reading of coverage was poor and very risky passes too if not outright lame ducks in double/triple coverage. Took him several years to improve in that area.

Streveler has the tools but cannot read D and make good calls.  We will see if he develops.  Michael Bishop was an extreme example of great tools and no ability to read. 


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: pjrocksmb on October 29, 2019, 01:00:12 AM
😂😂😂😂

I hope MOS plays Collaros and uses Streveler as a change up.  A second and short would be perfect to have Streveler in, the formation tighten up, have man cover and throw a 50/50 ball.  The question is to who? I think Adams.  He has played good defence when he did not have position.  Maybe Lawler or Wolitarski, especially if big height difference. 
yip

one two punch baby


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on October 29, 2019, 02:46:15 AM
 Collaros will not be here. He wants to be in the east. Where he and his family live. As far as him being a risky signing, yeah, Nichols is a little less of a risk, but he is starting to show some fragility. Steady Matty. Yawn. And the drought will go on.

 Of course Collaros will start in the playoffs and his level of play will dictate everything as far as his FA status. It is wait and see what happens. If you gave me a choice between a healthy Nichols and Collaros in a playoff game, I am going with Collaros.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on October 29, 2019, 02:55:08 AM
We're giving up a draft pick anyway. I'd rather give up a first round pick and have something to show for it than a third round pick and have nothing. Either way at least make him an offer. As much as I like Nichols an injury to his throwing shoulder isn't good.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on October 29, 2019, 03:29:48 AM
Collaros will not be here. He wants to be in the east. Where he and his family live. As far as him being a risky signing, yeah, Nichols is a little less of a risk, but he is starting to show some fragility. Steady Matty. Yawn. And the drought will go on.

 Of course Collaros will start in the playoffs and his level of play will dictate everything as far as his FA status. It is wait and see what happens. If you gave me a choice between a healthy Nichols and Collaros in a playoff game, I am going with Collaros.
Yep....Collaros and it's not even close!!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BlueInCgy on October 29, 2019, 04:12:36 AM
Streveler has the tools but cannot read D and make good calls.  We will see if he develops.  Michael Bishop was an extreme example of great tools and no ability to read. 

If Arbuckle leaves Calgary, Streveler would be smart to go there if the opportunity presented itself.  Learn the game from three of the best, and he would compliment BLM well in terms of difference in playing styles.

That is all contingent on the Stamps having the space, and not already having an ELC guy waiting in the wings whose already better than 2/3 of the QBs in the league that no one has heard of yet.....


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 29, 2019, 04:31:51 AM
If Collaros decides to take a co-pilot seat, who will occasionally get into a game and takes second fiddle pay... I can see a team taking a chance on him... including us.  He could take a Tate role...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 29, 2019, 04:55:19 AM
Yep....Collaros and it's not even close!!

are you sure?  maybe it isn't by personal preference, but, but let's see how the 2 games compared to each other... I'll list the stats for each of the last 2 games that we played against Calgary and will identify them by QB1A and QB1B...

QB1A                                    QB1B
 315     total offensive yards     324
28:44    time of possession     31:58
  20           first downs              21
    4          2 and outs                2
    6              punts                   3
   -1       turn over margin         0
 7/75      penalties #/yds        5/75
    1             sacks                    1
    1        sacks allowed             1
  W40   avg start yd line         W41

RECEPTIONS BY TARGET DEPTH
      QB1A                 QB1B
       15      0-5 yds      13
        3      6-10 yds      2
        2     11-15 yds     2
        0     16-20 yds     0
        1     21-25 yds     1
        1      26+ yds       0
      2/4   20+ Comp    1/2
       36       LONG        34

so, which QB won their game? QB1A or QB1B?  QB1A is Collaros, he scored fewer pts and won than QB1B while Streveler bested or was equal to QB1A in the majority of the stats for each individual game...  winning fixes everything... I guess...

SCORING DRIVES IN YARDS:
Collaros: 73, 55, 51, 38, and 25 yards
Streveler: 70, 52, 52, 41, 30, and 25 yards


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 29, 2019, 05:32:20 AM
We're giving up a draft pick anyway. I'd rather give up a first round pick and have something to show for it than a third round pick and have nothing. Either way at least make him an offer. As much as I like Nichols an injury to his throwing shoulder isn't good.

They would have to give the Argos a first round pick in addition to the 3rd round pick they already owe them if the Bombers extend Collaros for 2020.  That's a heavy price to pay.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on October 29, 2019, 05:41:11 AM
Chevy.....firstly my response was regarding making a hypothetical choice between a healthy Collaros or Nichols in a playoff game....I chose Collaros because he was the difference between winning and losing our last game.   He doesn't automatically chuck the ball in the stands when he loses contact with his 1/2 primary receivers and is constantly looking downfield for open receivers.   He is far more mobile than Nicholls as well and displayed his quick feet with that scramble and pass to Adams deep in the EZ.   Nichols would likely have been A)  sacked or B) chucked the ball in the stands.    In all fairness to Nicholls his deep passing throws were much better this season before he was hurt and his efficiency rating was top amongst starting QBs.  
Thing is, Collaros only came to us 2 weeks ago and had a few practices with the #1 team.   He also survived some big hits and I cringed every time....but then I do every time Nichols gets hit too.    The fans who saw Collaros were treated to a QB the likes they haven't seen in a loooong time.   He lifted both the team and the fans up at a time when we desperately needed a strong finish and Collaros made good on his opportunity.   After all he is trying to prove to everyone that he still has IT and that factor alone could be a huge asset for the Bombers in the playoffs.....plus he has more playoff experience than either Nichols or Streveler.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 29, 2019, 08:01:19 AM
Chevy.....firstly my response was regarding making a hypothetical choice between a healthy Collaros or Nichols in a playoff game....I chose Collaros because he was the difference between winning and losing our last game.   He doesn't automatically chuck the ball in the stands when he loses contact with his 1/2 primary receivers and is constantly looking downfield for open receivers.   He is far more mobile than Nicholls as well and displayed his quick feet with that scramble and pass to Adams deep in the EZ.   Nichols would likely have been A)  sacked or B) chucked the ball in the stands.    In all fairness to Nicholls his deep passing throws were much better this season before he was hurt and his efficiency rating was top amongst starting QBs.  
Thing is, Collaros only came to us 2 weeks ago and had a few practices with the #1 team.   He also survived some big hits and I cringed every time....but then I do every time Nichols gets hit too.    The fans who saw Collaros were treated to a QB the likes they haven't seen in a loooong time.   He lifted both the team and the fans up at a time when we desperately needed a strong finish and Collaros made good on his opportunity.   After all he is trying to prove to everyone that he still has IT and that factor alone could be a huge asset for the Bombers in the playoffs.....plus he has more playoff experience than either Nichols or Streveler.

Lincoln, my friend, my apologies... I read the part of the comment you were replying to and stopped after "Collaros will start the playoffs" and thought that was what you were referring to, lol... plus, you mentioned the word 'close' and that gave me a perfect lead into the stats from the 2 Calgary games... lol

but I agree 100% with your comments above and the logic as to why you would pick a healthy Collaros over a healthy Nichols, I would as well... with a different OC I'd pick a healthy Streveler over a healthy Nichols too...but, between the 3, and with our current OC, I'd have to go with Collaros as well...  different OC... Streveler

I was a little shocked after this last game when I was looking at the box score... after all, it's not often that you can lose in total yards, time of possession, penalties taken, the turn over battle, and have more '2 and outs' (if you count the 1 play, INT drive) than your opponent and still walk away with the win... but we did... somehow, lol...  the only meaningful category that we beat the Stamps this week was the single most important one, points scored... 

so, that got me looking at the previous game and I started comparing the Bombers games from one to the other and noticed that in addition to scoring more points the week before that almost every stat was equal or better than this game...  you would think that we would have won them both if we would have won the last game... big difference was Special Teams and the defense came up with a stop when we needed one to preserve the win...  much like the LDC, Streveler gave the defense a come from behind score in the 4th and the lead, all they had to do was keep it...

but you can sure see Lapo's influence in the play calling... the number of throws by depth are almost identical... no wonder our opponents are having more success against us, we're way to predictable...

but anyway, again, my apologies, I didn't read the other comment close enough and went with an assumption...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: bomb squad on October 29, 2019, 08:39:26 AM
are you sure?  maybe it isn't by personal preference, but, but let's see how the 2 games compared to each other... I'll list the stats for each of the last 2 games that we played against Calgary and will identify them by QB1A and QB1B...

QB1A                                    QB1B
 315     total offensive yards     324
28:44    time of possession     31:58
  20           first downs              21
    4          2 and outs                2
    6              punts                   3
   -1       turn over margin         0
 7/75      penalties #/yds        5/75
    1             sacks                    1
    1        sacks allowed             1
  W40   avg start yd line         W41

RECEPTIONS BY TARGET DEPTH
      QB1A                 QB1B
       15      0-5 yds      13
        3      6-10 yds      2
        2     11-15 yds     2
        0     16-20 yds     0
        1     21-25 yds     1
        1      26+ yds       0
      2/4   20+ Comp    1/2
       36       LONG        34

so, which QB won their game? QB1A or QB1B?  QB1A is Collaros, he scored fewer pts and won than QB1B while Streveler bested or was equal to QB1A in the majority of the stats for each individual game...  winning fixes everything... I guess...

SCORING DRIVES IN YARDS:
Collaros: 73, 55, 51, 38, and 25 yards
Streveler: 70, 52, 52, 41, 30, and 25 yards

Not to argue your against your main point overall (which you made well with your stats), but I do have to quibble with what I bolded. Perhaps you inadvertently counted the defensive touchdown scored in the game in Calgary? By my math, Collaros actually scored slightly more. 3 tds and 2 fgs = 27 for Collaros; 2 tds and 4 fg's = 26 for Streveler.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 29, 2019, 11:12:12 AM
If Arbuckle leaves Calgary, Streveler would be smart to go there if the opportunity presented itself.  Learn the game from three of the best, and he would compliment BLM well in terms of difference in playing styles.

That is all contingent on the Stamps having the space, and not already having an ELC guy waiting in the wings whose already better than 2/3 of the QBs in the league that no one has heard of yet.....

Calgary cannot afford Strev with BLM's contract.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 29, 2019, 12:06:14 PM
Not to argue your against your main point overall (which you made well with your stats), I do have to quibble with what I bolded. Perhaps you inadvertently counted the defensive touchdown scored in the game in Calgary? By my math, Collaros actually scored slightly more. 3 tds and 2 fgs = 27 for Collaros; 2 tds and 4 fg's = 26 for Streveler.

I should have done a better job of articulating my thoughts in my closing comments because you are right in regards to the math... however, this wasn't meant to specifically be a comparison of the QBs as a whole as there are obviously factors outside of their control that effects the outcome, both positive and negative... such as, Calgary didn't score as many points in the second game as they did in the first game... or, in game 2 Darvin breaks up the interception where as in game 1 he doesn't... if he does the same thing in game 1 there is a good chance we win that game as well...

it just seems that the general consensus would be that Collaros was the difference maker between the two games... however, when you look at the game within the game the numbers are strangely similar... for whatever reason the game that Collaros played looked 'prettier', maybe that was because the 'take away' for his game was what he did with his passing where as in Streveler's game it had more to do with running the ball... like the toss that Collaros made to Darvin on the scramble for the touchdown... a more exciting play therefore it makes one believe that there was a significant overall performance of the team, yet that isn't necessarily the case...

but let's say that in the first game, Calgary missed a 2 pt conversion... the Bombers win that game as well... I would have to believe that there wouldn't have been such a drastic swing in perception that one out played the other, or, influenced the game in the same manner...  hence, winning fixes everything... at the end of the day we could have  won the first game just as easily as we lost it... and on the other hand, we could have lost the second game just as easily as we won it... neither QB played that much better or that much poorer than the other...

clear as mud, right? lol... 


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BlueInCgy on October 29, 2019, 01:19:54 PM
Calgary cannot afford Strev with BLM's contract.

Not disagreeing with you on that, which is why I said if the opportunity were to present itself.  If they don't have the money, they can't have the conversation.

That being said, I suspect Strev's going rate for next year has been reduced somewhat over what would have been anticipated had he only been called in for spot duty and looked really good in his design play packages.  That, and Fajardo, Adams, and Evans have all passed him on the list of "the next big thing".


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on October 29, 2019, 01:32:31 PM
Lincoln, my friend, my apologies... I read the part of the comment you were replying to and stopped after "Collaros will start the playoffs" and thought that was what you were referring to, lol... plus, you mentioned the word 'close' and that gave me a perfect lead into the stats from the 2 Calgary games... lol

but I agree 100% with your comments above and the logic as to why you would pick a healthy Collaros over a healthy Nichols, I would as well... with a different OC I'd pick a healthy Streveler over a healthy Nichols too...but, between the 3, and with our current OC, I'd have to go with Collaros as well...  different OC... Streveler

I was a little shocked after this last game when I was looking at the box score... after all, it's not often that you can lose in total yards, time of possession, penalties taken, the turn over battle, and have more '2 and outs' (if you count the 1 play, INT drive) than your opponent and still walk away with the win... but we did... somehow, lol...  the only meaningful category that we beat the Stamps this week was the single most important one, points scored... 

so, that got me looking at the previous game and I started comparing the Bombers games from one to the other and noticed that in addition to scoring more points the week before that almost every stat was equal or better than this game...  you would think that we would have won them both if we would have won the last game... big difference was Special Teams and the defense came up with a stop when we needed one to preserve the win...  much like the LDC, Streveler gave the defense a come from behind score in the 4th and the lead, all they had to do was keep it...

but you can sure see Lapo's influence in the play calling... the number of throws by depth are almost identical... no wonder our opponents are having more success against us, we're way to predictable...

but anyway, again, my apologies, I didn't read the other comment close enough and went with an assumption...
No worries Chevy....Janarion Grant factored into this game as well with two big returns....one on the missed convert and return for two points was actually a 3 point swing and his return on a missed FG to centre field was also a factor.   Also Medlock was better than Paredes and he had some big punts as well.   On the whole our special teams were better.   Yes when BLM marches the entire length of the field seemingly at will you wonder how we came out ahead....but our special teams gave us just enough of an edge to come out ahead.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 29, 2019, 02:24:09 PM
Is there a timeframe for re-signing Collaros for us to lose the first rounder?  Does it have to be before the end of the year, before FA hits, or forever and ever?

Injury / concussion worries aside, he is a good QB, but I think in FA we might be able to do better.  Past both him and Nichols, there are many other options out there...  the key will be choosing which one is ready to make the next step... Tor seems set with McBeth, MTL with Adams, HAM will shake loose one of Masoli or Evans, OTT will be shopping, like us.  Edmonton, SSK, CGY and BC are all set as well, only looking for cheap #2s.

So, Ott and us shopping with a lot of potential FA's out there...   with some XFL competition...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 29, 2019, 03:24:43 PM
No worries Chevy....Janarion Grant factored into this game as well with two big returns....one on the missed convert and return for two points was actually a 3 point swing and his return on a missed FG to centre field was also a factor.   Also Medlock was better than Paredes and he had some big punts as well.   On the whole our special teams were better.   Yes when BLM marches the entire length of the field seemingly at will you wonder how we came out ahead....but our special teams gave us just enough of an edge to come out ahead.

you are so right about the special teams, they were the key to our win in that last game... I was waiting on someone to bring up the turn overs, how we had more in the first game and we actually scored with one on the defense....

the special team play in game two was the equivalent to turn overs by our opponent...  Calgary attempts a field goal from the W40... he misses, and Grant returns it 61 yards setting us up at mid field... we gained 15 yards from their original LOS on that play... no different than say a blocked field goal attempt or fumble... we scored on that following drive...

and like you said, their own kicking team cost them that game... besides the obvious, Grant returning the missed PAT for a 2 pt score for the Bombers, there was another significant kicking event that killed Calgary... Calgary are on their own 9 yard line, Maver punts a bad 32 yd punt followed up by a stupid 15 yd no yards penalty that essentially places the Bombers at Calgary's 25... the very next play on that short field ends up being a touchdown for the Bombers....

often over looked and under valued but that was one of the major factors in that win... thanks for setting that up for me, Lincoln... lol...  ;D


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 29, 2019, 03:32:29 PM
and Collaros dodged a bullet himself because he could have walked out of that game with 3 INTs instead of just 1... Darvin helped him out by breaking up a sure INT on a ball that never should have been thrown, something he didn't do the week before on a very similar bad throw in the end zone... and the INT drop by one of Calgary's player... a ball that hit him right between the numbers... I actually can't believe how he didn't catch the dang ball... it looked like he was the intended receiver... like I said, dodged a bullet...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 29, 2019, 03:39:10 PM
I think Collaros's game is being a bit overblown because of the last several games of poor passing performance by our offence. I'm not trying to diminish Collaros's efforts but realistically his performance looked very similar to any of the games Nichols played this year imo.

It's like bizarro world in here right now. For the entire first half of the season people groused because Nichols was passing with high efficiency but it was ball control and low yardage. Collaros comes in and plays an almost mirror image Nichols game and he is being hailed as our starter next year. Makes no sense to me.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on October 29, 2019, 03:49:27 PM
and Collaros dodged a bullet himself because he could have walked out of that game with 3 INTs instead of just 1... Darvin helped him out by breaking up a sure INT on a ball that never should have been thrown, something he didn't do the week before on a very similar bad throw in the end zone... and the INT drop by one of Calgary's player... a ball that hit him right between the numbers... I actually can't believe how he didn't catch the dang ball... it looked like he was the intended receiver... like I said, dodged a bullet...
Yes he did....however both our QBs prior to Collaros playing have on any given day, dodged a few.    Let's keep in mind the fact that this guy only had a few practice sessions with the first team and has only been a Bomber for a few weeks before becoming our starter!!   His play in the final drive was stellar and he methodically marched us down into FG range with a combination of short passes and running plays...eating up the clock in the process and giving Medlock great field position for the winning FG.
I don't think this can be diminished by the fact that he threw some questionable balls while pulling this win out of the fire.   It was an inspired win and despite his stats being less than those of BLM we hadn't passed for over 200 yards in a game for awhile.   His quick feet, scrambling ability and a his downfield vision are superior to Nichols or Streveler.   His veteran presence and experience give us a legitimate shot at winning a Cup and prior to him signing not so much....even though I love Streveler!  Whether or not we continue with Nichols, Streveler or Collaros next season is something to be decided after the season ends....however for the immediate future Collaros is THE guy who might just turn this team around for a GC run....long shot though it may be!!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 29, 2019, 03:51:25 PM
I think Collaros's game is being a bit overblown because of the last several games of poor passing performance by our offence. I'm not trying to diminish Collaros's efforts but realistically his performance looked very similar to any of the games Nichols played this year imo.

It's like bizarro world in here right now. For the entire first half of the season people groused because Nichols was passing with high efficiency but it was ball control and low yardage. Collaros comes in and plays an almost mirror image Nichols game and he is being hailed as our starter next year. Makes no sense to me.

Yes he did....however both our QBs prior to Collaros playing have on any given day, dodged a few.    Let's keep in mind the fact that this guy only had a few practice sessions with the first team and has only been a Bomber for a few weeks before he became out starter!!   His play in the final drive was stellar and he methodically marched us down into FG range with a combination of short passes and running plays...,eating up the clock in the process and giving Medlock great field position for the winning FG.
I don't think this can be diminished by the fact that he threw some questionable balls while pulling this win out of the fire.   It was an inspired win and despite his stats being less than those of BLM we hadn't passed for over 200 yards in a game for awhile.   His quick feet, scrambling ability and a his downfield vision are superior to Nichols or Streveler.   His veteran presence and experience give us a legitimacy shot at winning a Cup and prior to him signing not so much....even though I love Streveler!

I agree with both of you... I was pleased with Collaros results, but not to the point that I'd ever consider signing him on for next year though...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on October 29, 2019, 03:56:37 PM
I think Collaros's game is being a bit overblown because of the last several games of poor passing performance by our offence. I'm not trying to diminish Collaros's efforts but realistically his performance looked very similar to any of the games Nichols played this year imo.

It's like bizarro world in here right now. For the entire first half of the season people groused because Nichols was passing with high efficiency but it was ball control and low yardage. Collaros comes in and plays an almost mirror image Nichols game and he is being hailed as our starter next year. Makes no sense to me.

Well said. It seems like no matter who is behind centre, the passing game is mediocre at best. Seems like that's the system in place and as such, it is what it is.

As far as 2020 is concerned, I'm not sure if I'd entertain the option of either QB coming back, unless it's at a lower salary with some incentives mixed in. Personally, I'd rather see the team go after a FA QB, among other things (new OC, new DC).


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on October 29, 2019, 04:04:13 PM
I agree with both of you... I was pleased with Collaros results, but not to the point that I'd ever consider signing him on for next year though...
Read my edited last post.....I'm talking about our chances this season and what happens after that is anyone's guess.   We won't know about Nichols recovery from shoulder surgery either and he's getting on.   Streveler needs to enroll in passing 101 and reading a defence 101 and isn't developing as I'd hoped.   He may yet prove to be more rounded but at the moment he is a liability as far as a passer goes and his stats back that up.   He will never survive for long as a CFL QB unless this happens, and relatively soon.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 29, 2019, 04:30:43 PM
Read my edited last post.....I'm talking about our chances this season and what happens after that is anyone's guess.   We won't know about Nichols recovery from shoulder surgery either and he's getting on.   Streveler needs to enroll in passing 101 and reading a defence 101 and isn't developing as I'd hoped.   He may yet prove to be more rounded but at the moment he is a liability as far as a passer goes and his stats back that up.   He will never survive for long as a CFL QB unless this happens, and relatively soon.

Streveler definitely needs to improve as a passer. That being said he still has a relatively small amount of playing time and can develop. We all know what Nichols and Collaros's strengths and liabilities are and I just don't know if either are a fit long term. If I had to pick one it would be Nichols, but that is only because Collaros offers no chance of staying healthy with his concussion history and dependability at QB is paramount.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Point of attack on October 29, 2019, 08:09:34 PM
Should it be a surprise that many folks are excited about any QB who many had written off as a viable option ,who wins a game...let alone against arguably the best team in the league with minimal prep time ?
Really? When the names of Khari and Dunigan came up as a comparable, what else do you need to hear???
(Not comparing abilities just how long it?s been)
  The analytical comparison of stats between Streveler and Collaros really gave me cramps though. Are you kidding? How about this stat, Collaros is not only our best option right now ,he?s our only option.
  As for next year so many variables are in play and given the BB lack of success luring FA QBs of the top tier you would at least consider the MN ZC combination given their current standing in the QB pecking order of the CFL.
  Speculation about next year will hopefully get more interesting in the next couple of weeks and even more folks can get excited.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on October 29, 2019, 09:43:08 PM
I apologize. I didn't realize that we would give up 2 draft picks however I'm still not sure I that Collaros isn't the answer. Streveler certainly isn't it. If Nichols can recover from his shoulder injury I'm not opposed to re-signing him. I just want the best option to win the Grey Cup ASAP.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 29, 2019, 11:16:57 PM
I apologize. I didn't realize that we would give up 2 draft picks however I'm still not sure I that Collaros isn't the answer. Streveler certainly isn't it. If Nichols can recover from his shoulder injury I'm not opposed to re-signing him. I just want the best option to win the Grey Cup ASAP.
bottom line wherever it is the starter I think we need 2 starter type QB options as starter. MaGuire I think could be a great number 2


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 29, 2019, 11:49:28 PM
bottom line wherever it is the starter I think we need to starter type QB options as starter. MaGuire I think could be a great number 2

huh?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 30, 2019, 12:21:00 AM
huh?

Well he made 1 nice pass. In Winnipeg fans will jump on the next " prospect " faster than a hungry dog on a steak bone. :)


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on October 30, 2019, 12:37:35 AM

 What we saw was a QB who made plays when he had to. With the game on the line and winnable. With our defence you simply must use up all the clock.  It is just one game, but it was fun to watch and renews a little hope for a playoff run. Next year is next year.

 There will be some quality QBs available. Strev is not a complete QB and Nichols is not a clutch QB. I really hope we make a move.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 30, 2019, 12:40:52 AM
Well he made 1 nice pass. In Winnipeg fans will jump on the next " prospect " faster than a hungry dog on a steak bone. :)

no he had a great pre season and camp as well. Look at Evans Look at Arbuckle Look at Jar Jar Do. Their is always a chance. Maybe the scouts found a goody? That?s all I am saying. Frick people.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on October 30, 2019, 12:55:19 AM
are you sure?  maybe it isn't by personal preference, but, but let's see how the 2 games compared to each other... I'll list the stats for each of the last 2 games that we played against Calgary and will identify them by QB1A and QB1B...

QB1A                                    QB1B
 315     total offensive yards     324
28:44    time of possession     31:58
  20           first downs              21
    4          2 and outs                2
    6              punts                   3
   -1       turn over margin         0
 7/75      penalties #/yds        5/75
    1             sacks                    1
    1        sacks allowed             1
  W40   avg start yd line         W41

RECEPTIONS BY TARGET DEPTH
      QB1A                 QB1B
       15      0-5 yds      13
        3      6-10 yds      2
        2     11-15 yds     2
        0     16-20 yds     0
        1     21-25 yds     1
        1      26+ yds       0
      2/4   20+ Comp    1/2
       36       LONG        34

so, which QB won their game? QB1A or QB1B?  QB1A is Collaros, he scored fewer pts and won than QB1B while Streveler bested or was equal to QB1A in the majority of the stats for each individual game...  winning fixes everything... I guess...

SCORING DRIVES IN YARDS:
Collaros: 73, 55, 51, 38, and 25 yards
Streveler: 70, 52, 52, 41, 30, and 25 yards

 Sometimes it is more about when you move the ball. Not the numbers. Streveler did squat, late, with the game on the line. Could not hit a receiver. And yeah, he was banged up, but he was in there. That is another thread. Collaros has had one game and we should not get too excited. But, if you are comparing these two games specifically, Collaros delivered in the clutch. Strev did not.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 30, 2019, 01:21:31 AM

 Sometimes it is more about when you move the ball. Not the numbers. Streveler did squat, late, with the game on the line. Could not hit a receiver. And yeah, he was banged up, but he was in there. That is another thread. Collaros has had one game and we should not get too excited. But, if you are comparing these two games specifically, Collaros delivered in the clutch. Strev did not.

In addition Collaros did not sacrifice his health accumulating those stats, Streveler absolutely did.  As many of us have said multiple times, what Streveler is leaving on the field is not sustainable, he may put in a Herculean effort one week and steal a victory but the following week he is physically incapable of performing.  That's A-OK if it happens to be the G.C. game, but it's not ideal if he is the designated starter and there are many games to follow.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: pjrocksmb on October 30, 2019, 01:28:21 AM
We're giving up a draft pick anyway. I'd rather give up a first round pick and have something to show for it than a third round pick and have nothing. Either way at least make him an offer. As much as I like Nichols an injury to his throwing shoulder isn't good.
#1 draft pick is more valuable then you are letting on


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Tiger on October 30, 2019, 01:57:10 AM
Collaros is going where he can play and be paid.  He is a professional athlete. That said it is one game. 

If offers are equal in Toronto and will he choose a chance to win and be protected by a good oline or family home? It will be interesting


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on October 30, 2019, 03:22:16 AM
bottom line wherever it is the starter I think we need 2 starter type QB options as starter. MaGuire I think could be a great number 2
You and I are going to be in the minority here but I agree with you. McGuire has shown that he can throw the ball downfield, Streveler has not. Unfortunately I don't think that he will be given a real chance to show what he can do.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 30, 2019, 03:38:49 AM

 Sometimes it is more about when you move the ball. Not the numbers. Streveler did squat, late, with the game on the line. Could not hit a receiver. And yeah, he was banged up, but he was in there. That is another thread. Collaros has had one game and we should not get too excited. But, if you are comparing these two games specifically, Collaros delivered in the clutch. Strev did not.


1) if our defense would have held the Stamps to only 28 points like they did last week or, if they would have just kept the Stamps from scoring in the 4th quarter like they did in the last game, or just limited the Stamps to a field goal in the 4th we wouldn't be having this conversation...

2) it's not like the Bombers mounted a drive that allowed them to actually take the lead in the 4th quarter of that game... oh wait, they actually did... only to have the defense give up another touchdown to the Stamps in the very next drive, a 75 yard drive to boot...

3) up until that point in the game, when we took the lead back in the 4th, the Bombers had only punted the ball twice and had scored on 6 of their first 9 possessions... on the road no less...

4) did you know that through that weekend there had been 72 games played this season and that there were only 2 other times in those 72 games that a team scored 33 points and lost... one being our own epic melt down against Montreal, and the other being when Ottawa beat Sask 44-41 in week 2, but Ottawa allowed the Riders to score 2 touchdowns in the last 5 minutes of that game while they tried to coast out in what they thought was garbage time...

5) different game situations in each game at the end, 2 weeks ago we were down by 4 in the 4th and needed a touchdown to come back for the win, last week we were only down 2 and a field goal was all that was needed... we get the ball on our 46 yd line and only needed 15 to 20 yards to be within Medlock's range for a game winning field goal... the last 2 times that the Bombers got the ball it required them to sustain a drive of either 80 or 77 yards to get a win as their starting field position for those last 2 drives were the W30 and W33... again, on the road... and with a QB that was obviously hurt...

6) it wasn't like the Bombers couldn't sustain a drive in the prior meeting with the Stamps, we won the TOP for the game overall as well as the second half 15:22 vs. 14:38 while scoring points twice...

7) in our last meeting the Bombers got to play in the friendly confines of IG Field, a place where they had a win-loss record of 7-1 prior to the game... on the flip side, the previous game was a road game where the Bombers had proven to be much less successful and a road win-loss record of 3-5...

8. and lastly, I didn't realize that 'passing yards' were more valuable, or gave you more points than 'rushing yards'... because for a guy that couldn't do squat, or move the ball, he had more total yards in the game than the guy that cured cancer while playing...

In addition Collaros did not sacrifice his health accumulating those stats, Streveler absolutely did.  As many of us have said multiple times, what Streveler is leaving on the field is not sustainable, he may put in a Herculean effort one week and steal a victory but the following week he is physically incapable of performing.  That's A-OK if it happens to be the G.C. game, but it's not ideal if he is the designated starter and there are many games to follow.


last time I checked Streveler didn't have the luxury to call plays, that was Lapo's decision to have him run the ball... but if I recall correctly, on one of those running plays he did take the ball out on the sidelines instead of turning up field and the other running plays weren't really conducive to trying a hook slide or get to the sidelines... but hey, I could be wrong, I am getting old and forgetful...

but more so, he shouldn't have been in the game at all at that point... but again, that's on the coaching staff, not him... but more over, the offense had played well enough and the Bombers had scored enough points that they should have won that game...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 30, 2019, 03:55:35 AM
Hey maybe we can get Kevin Glenn next year and start another 65 page thread?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BLUEBOMBER on October 30, 2019, 05:56:30 AM
Yep...  just one game with Collaros..  this thread shouldn't exist.  Nichols is still the leader of the team.  He will be back next season knowing how stubborn OShea and LaPo both are.  I would hope we can get better receivers though.  That's a serious weak spot that we have now.  I hope Collaros will stick around as a backup but given how desperate Ottawa is, I think they may throw money at Collaros if he does well in the playoffs.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 30, 2019, 10:16:18 AM
You and I are going to be in the minority here but I agree with you. McGuire has shown that he can throw the ball downfield, Streveler has not. Unfortunately I don't think that he will be given a real chance to show what he can do.

Has McGuire completed a pass beyond 5 yards?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 30, 2019, 01:31:35 PM
no he had a great pre season and camp as well. Look at Evans Look at Arbuckle Look at Jar Jar Do. Their is always a chance. Maybe the scouts found a goody? That?s all I am saying. Frick people.

Lots of QB's look good in pre -season. They're playing against rosters comprised of mostly rookies.

Such a small sample size is meaningless. Many ex Bomber candidates have looked good in pre season and briefly in regular season play.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on October 30, 2019, 01:57:23 PM
#1 draft pick is more valuable then you are letting on
Is it tho?

It's not like it used to be. We are no longer start some of the worst NI talent. In fact, we're near the top of the league when it comes to NI talent. If we want to keep Collaros, and I for one don't, losing the first round pick wouldn't hurt us as badly as it would hurt most teams.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BlueInCgy on October 30, 2019, 02:05:41 PM
Is it tho?

It's not like it used to be. We are no longer start some of the worst NI talent. In fact, we're near the top of the league when it comes to NI talent. If we want to keep Collaros, and I for one don't, losing the first round pick wouldn't hurt us as badly as it would hurt most teams.

How many of our #1s actually have made the team?  Simonise - gone, Ekakitie - gone, Gray - on the team after a few years, Goosen - made the team and retired, Chungh - made the team, Mulumba - never signed with the team, Pencer - gone, Muamba - made the team.   That's a 50% success rate over recent history, of which four are still in the league, and only one still plays for the Bombers.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: VictorRomano on October 30, 2019, 02:08:47 PM
#1 draft pick is more valuable then you are letting on

Not if it's used to select busts like Faith Ekakite....


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on October 30, 2019, 02:21:03 PM
Is it tho?

It's not like it used to be. We are no longer start some of the worst NI talent. In fact, we're near the top of the league when it comes to NI talent. If we want to keep Collaros, and I for one don't, losing the first round pick wouldn't hurt us as badly as it would hurt most teams.

Yea - it depends. I'd keep Collaros if he wants to stick around on an incentive based deal as a top paid back up. He's probably worth a #1 pick if we can sign him for a few years under those circumstances. If not, no. I'm sure he wants to start and probably someone will pay him. Ottawa and Toronto are probably both desperate.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on October 30, 2019, 02:59:26 PM

1) if our defense would have held the Stamps to only 28 points like they did last week or, if they would have just kept the Stamps from scoring in the 4th quarter like they did in the last game, or just limited the Stamps to a field goal in the 4th we wouldn't be having this conversation...

2) it's not like the Bombers mounted a drive that allowed them to actually take the lead in the 4th quarter of that game... oh wait, they actually did... only to have the defense give up another touchdown to the Stamps in the very next drive, a 75 yard drive to boot...

3) up until that point in the game, when we took the lead back in the 4th, the Bombers had only punted the ball twice and had scored on 6 of their first 9 possessions... on the road no less...

4) did you know that through that weekend there had been 72 games played this season and that there were only 2 other times in those 72 games that a team scored 33 points and lost... one being our own epic melt down against Montreal, and the other being when Ottawa beat Sask 44-41 in week 2, but Ottawa allowed the Riders to score 2 touchdowns in the last 5 minutes of that game while they tried to coast out in what they thought was garbage time...

5) different game situations in each game at the end, 2 weeks ago we were down by 4 in the 4th and needed a touchdown to come back for the win, last week we were only down 2 and a field goal was all that was needed... we get the ball on our 46 yd line and only needed 15 to 20 yards to be within Medlock's range for a game winning field goal... the last 2 times that the Bombers got the ball it required them to sustain a drive of either 80 or 77 yards to get a win as their starting field position for those last 2 drives were the W30 and W33... again, on the road... and with a QB that was obviously hurt...

6) it wasn't like the Bombers couldn't sustain a drive in the prior meeting with the Stamps, we won the TOP for the game overall as well as the second half 15:22 vs. 14:38 while scoring points twice...

7) in our last meeting the Bombers got to play in the friendly confines of IG Field, a place where they had a win-loss record of 7-1 prior to the game... on the flip side, the previous game was a road game where the Bombers had proven to be much less successful and a road win-loss record of 3-5...

8. and lastly, I didn't realize that 'passing yards' were more valuable, or gave you more points than 'rushing yards'... because for a guy that couldn't do squat, or move the ball, he had more total yards in the game than the guy that cured cancer while playing...

last time I checked Streveler didn't have the luxury to call plays, that was Lapo's decision to have him run the ball... but if I recall correctly, on one of those running plays he did take the ball out on the sidelines instead of turning up field and the other running plays weren't really conducive to trying a hook slide or get to the sidelines... but hey, I could be wrong, I am getting old and forgetful...

but more so, he shouldn't have been in the game at all at that point... but again, that's on the coaching staff, not him... but more over, the offense had played well enough and the Bombers had scored enough points that they should have won that game...

 How about the points that the D gave us? If not for that, it is over at the half. You had a fumble for a TD and and a pick almost in the red zone that led to a quick score. The Strev offence scored 6 points in the whole second half. 6 points. Last 2 possessions a turnover on downs and an interception. My point is this. You are comparing these 2 games and throwing in ifs and buts. What I said was that with the game on the line, Collaros delivered. Streveler did not. Pretty straightforward.

 I am not saying Collaros is the answer to all our prayers. It was one game. And he ended it just fine. I enjoyed it.
  I will add this. There is a reason that our OC leans heavily toward running plays for Streveler. The guy is not an accurate passer nor does he read well. It is risk and reward.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 30, 2019, 03:44:56 PM



last time I checked Streveler didn't have the luxury to call plays, that was Lapo's decision to have him run the ball... but if I recall correctly, on one of those running plays he did take the ball out on the sidelines instead of turning up field and the other running plays weren't really conducive to trying a hook slide or get to the sidelines... but hey, I could be wrong, I am getting old and forgetful...

but more so, he shouldn't have been in the game at all at that point... but again, that's on the coaching staff, not him... but more over, the offense had played well enough and the Bombers had scored enough points that they should have won that game...

I'm not sure why you're tying yourself in knots defending Streveler, I believe you've already stated that you don't wish to see him start in the playoffs or be given the starters job next season....most of us agree, so what is the point of carrying on with your argument?  I'm pretty sure everybody on this board likes Streveler and wants to keep him around as the #2 QB next season, giving him more time to develop and grow into the passing game, it's in our best interest to see what he can become....but he's clearly not ready yet.  Sorry but your argument supporting him as "he's just as good as ______", is built upon a lot of, "what if's" and "it's the other guy's fault" to be plausible.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 30, 2019, 04:59:01 PM
I'm not sure why you're tying yourself in knots defending Streveler, I believe you've already stated that you don't wish to see him start in the playoffs or be given the starters job next season....most of us agree, so what is the point of carrying on with your argument?  I'm pretty sure everybody on this board likes Streveler and wants to keep him around as the #2 QB next season, giving him more time to develop and grow into the passing game, it's in our best interest to see what he can become....but he's clearly not ready yet.  Sorry but your argument supporting him as "he's just as good as ______", is built upon a lot of, "what if's" and "it's the other guy's fault" to be plausible.



I wasn't defending Streveler when Lincoln and I was first discussing this... all I did was put up some stats between the two games as I found strange/funny how similar they were from one game to the next, down to the number of completions at the various depths and how one wins and the other loses... that was it...

however, I get "whatever his name is" calling me out and talking about what a crappy job Streveler did... blah.. blah... blah... combine that with all the glowing talk about Collaros came in and did the unimaginable and he's going to save the day and lead us to the promised land (cough, cough) while Streveler becomes guilty of clubbing seals... oh well, I should be use to this crap by now...

I recognize and appreciate what Streveler has done for the Bombers in a relief role, playing hard to try and win and to keep the momentum going for us into the playoffs... others act like he should be parking cars somewhere instead of playing football... the guy has played better than most are giving him credit for and played well enough that he should be at least 5-3 in not 6-2... he's done nothing over this stretch that cost us a game...

Collaros barely breaks 200 yds passing, 10 of which was actually a running play but because he drops the ball 6" into Demski's hand instead of placing it directly into this hands it's a pass play, lol, and you would have thought based upon the reaction here that he threw for 400 yards... yet Streve has averaged 255 yds of offense per game over the last 8 games he started and now, because he has rushing yards in there, it's not good enough, even though it's more than what Collarso had last week or what Matt averaged over the first 9 games this year... he's running the ball on a running team, what's the problem as long as he gets the production?

people act like we got blown out by the Stamps two weeks ago and it was all his fault... which isn't the case... we lost by 4 pts., while scoring 33 pts, on the road, to the team that is hands down each year favored to go to the Grey Cup... <<shakes head>>

yes, I was high on Streveler and thought he had a lot of potential... it hasn't really worked out like I thought it would... Lapo has done to him the same thing he did to Nichols... but moving forward, you had better believe that who the OC is here for next year will play a huge role in who, or if, any FA QB signs here...

as far as your last sentence in your comment... total crap... I've not said he's better than anyone and the only 'if' I have used was 'if' the defense could actually stop someone sometime when others have done enough to win... nothing different than what has been said by almost everyone single person here this year... but, if people are going to lie or mislead others here, I'm going to point it out, regardless of who the player is... a whole of lot opinion being presented as fact the majority of time around here...

How about the points that the D gave us? If not for that, it is over at the half. You had a fumble for a TD and and a pick almost in the red zone that led to a quick score. The Strev offence scored 6 points in the whole second half. 6 points. Last 2 possessions a turnover on downs and an interception. My point is this. You are comparing these 2 games and throwing in ifs and buts. What I said was that with the game on the line, Collaros delivered. Streveler did not. Pretty straightforward.

 I am not saying Collaros is the answer to all our prayers. It was one game. And he ended it just fine. I enjoyed it.
  I will add this. There is a reason that our OC leans heavily toward running plays for Streveler. The guy is not an accurate passer nor does he read well. It is risk and reward.

for starters, the crap that I put in bold in you comments above is a straight up lie... there were no 'ifs and buts' in my original post on the topic... I just pointed out how I found it funny how similar the numbers were between the 2 games yet had different out comes...

but if you're looking to pick a fight with me you're going to have to do a better job of keeping up... all that crap you're talking about now?  I have already addressed and covered a few post back... I have neither the desire or the energy to rehash it all again because you haven't seen/read it yet...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 30, 2019, 05:06:24 PM
after posting this I got to thinking... you know me and Lincoln Locomotive had good conversation about this very topic yesterday... it's was respectful and very adult like... we were able to express our opinions and share our thoughts with out demeaning or talking bad about anyone or having it be some kind of fight to prove one is more right than the other, or with anyone walking away being mad or with hurt feelings...

that was really nice and I truly enjoyed it...  so, I thank you Mr. Lincoln, as it's always a pleasure conversing with you and I want you to know how much I appreciate you...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on October 30, 2019, 11:49:01 PM
I wasn't defending Streveler when Lincoln and I was first discussing this... all I did was put up some stats between the two games as I found strange/funny how similar they were from one game to the next, down to the number of completions at the various depths and how one wins and the other loses... that was it...

however, I get "whatever his name is" calling me out and talking about what a crappy job Streveler did... blah.. blah... blah... combine that with all the glowing talk about Collaros came in and did the unimaginable and he's going to save the day and lead us to the promised land (cough, cough) while Streveler becomes guilty of clubbing seals... oh well, I should be use to this crap by now...

I recognize and appreciate what Streveler has done for the Bombers in a relief role, playing hard to try and win and to keep the momentum going for us into the playoffs... others act like he should be parking cars somewhere instead of playing football... the guy has played better than most are giving him credit for and played well enough that he should be at least 5-3 in not 6-2... he's done nothing over this stretch that cost us a game...

Collaros barely breaks 200 yds passing, 10 of which was actually a running play but because he drops the ball 6" into Demski's hand instead of placing it directly into this hands it's a pass play, lol, and you would have thought based upon the reaction here that he threw for 400 yards... yet Streve has averaged 255 yds of offense per game over the last 8 games he started and now, because he has rushing yards in there, it's not good enough, even though it's more than what Collarso had last week or what Matt averaged over the first 9 games this year... he's running the ball on a running team, what's the problem as long as he gets the production?

people act like we got blown out by the Stamps two weeks ago and it was all his fault... which isn't the case... we lost by 4 pts., while scoring 33 pts, on the road, to the team that is hands down each year favored to go to the Grey Cup... <<shakes head>>

yes, I was high on Streveler and thought he had a lot of potential... it hasn't really worked out like I thought it would... Lapo has done to him the same thing he did to Nichols... but moving forward, you had better believe that who the OC is here for next year will play a huge role in who, or if, any FA QB signs here...

as far as your last sentence in your comment... total crap... I've not said he's better than anyone and the only 'if' I have used was 'if' the defense could actually stop someone sometime when others have done enough to win... nothing different than what has been said by almost everyone single person here this year... but, if people are going to lie or mislead others here, I'm going to point it out, regardless of who the player is... a whole of lot opinion being presented as fact the majority of time around here...

for starters, the crap that I put in bold in you comments above is a straight up lie... there were no 'ifs and buts' in my original post on the topic... I just pointed out how I found it funny how similar the numbers were between the 2 games yet had different out comes...

but if you're looking to pick a fight with me you're going to have to do a better job of keeping up... all that crap you're talking about now?  I have already addressed and covered a few post back... I have neither the desire or the energy to rehash it all again because you haven't seen/read it yet...

 I do not have any idea what you are getting all worked up about. None. You might want to touch base again with what you posted. #1 clearly starts with the word if. If the defence had held....... and so on. You start with an if and the but becomes a given. If we held them, but we did not.

 Similar stats? That was kind of my original point. Numbers are numbers. Making plays when you need to was my point.

 Similar situations. One QB got it done. One did not. No fight picking here. Just the facts. You need to relax.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on October 30, 2019, 11:52:40 PM
I am not putting the loss all on Strev. Love the guy, but in late game situations with limited time on the clock, you have to move the ball through the air. He could not. A for effort. C for talent.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 31, 2019, 02:50:45 PM
2 qb's next year.  The last thing you want to do is make oe of those a guy that, while he may play an entire season, is also potentially gone after the third play... love the fact Collaros is going to take us deep in the playoffs, even win a cup.  But with only 2 QBs on the roster, the risk is too great.  Keep his number on speed dial, like every GM in the league...

Is Streveler the answer?  In some ways, he might be.  It makes an unconventional team, sure, but if you have an OC that can scheme for it, it could be that knuckleball pitcher that wins 20 games because no one can properly prepare for it. 

McGuire was kept over Bennett, for his upside, and has had nothing but praise from anyone who has seen him  play.  If we manage to bring in an Arbuckle or Evans/Masoli who do you want as #2?  Streveler or McGuire?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BlueGold8597 on October 31, 2019, 02:59:27 PM
I think we'll see Nichols and Streveler back next year.

We were on the way to first place and who knows what else when Nichols got hurt.  They will give him the chance to continue that success next year.

Streveler will not get any starting QB offers thanks to his less than stellar passing when he got the chance.  Where else will he go?  I would imagine we'll be able to bring him back at a reasonable backup salary, use him in special packages and try to develop his passing to the point where he can become the number 1 some day.

That said, if Collaros somehow takes us on a deep playoff run all bets are off.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on October 31, 2019, 02:59:34 PM
after posting this I got to thinking... you know me and Lincoln Locomotive had good conversation about this very topic yesterday... it's was respectful and very adult like... we were able to express our opinions and share our thoughts with out demeaning or talking bad about anyone or having it be some kind of fight to prove one is more right than the other, or with anyone walking away being mad or with hurt feelings...

that was really nice and I truly enjoyed it...  so, I thank you Mr. Lincoln, as it's always a pleasure conversing with you and I want you to know how much I appreciate you...
Thanks Chev....much appreciated!   Some posters will never change and that's a fact and sometimes it's difficult not to get sucked into their vortex of negativity.   The art of debate and logic are dying ones I'm afraid, however I participate in this forum because there are some posters such as yourself, who share the same style.   I appreciate the effort you put into your posts and for the most part I agree with most of your points and when we disagree it never turns into a testosterone induced pi$$ing contest between us.  


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Donny C on October 31, 2019, 03:07:21 PM
I think we'll see Nichols and Streveler back next year.

We were on the way to first place and who knows what else when Nichols got hurt.  They will give him the chance to continue that success next year.

Streveler will not get any starting QB offers thanks to his less than stellar passing when he got the chance.  Where else will he go?  I would imagine we'll be able to bring him back at a reasonable backup salary, use him in special packages and try to develop his passing to the point where he can become the number 1 some day.

That said, if Collaros somehow takes us on a deep playoff run all bets are off.

I would agree.

Had Streveler won a tons of games thenI think he'd be getting a job offer somewhere as the starter.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue72 on October 31, 2019, 03:32:52 PM
Many on here have seen what our QBs look like from TC and also practices so would any of you think that McGuire looks like a guy to keep around over the like of Streveler. We have seen what Streveler brings to the field, he likes to run before looking at all the receivers but he is very good at running. Not what you want from your starter, he needs more coaching in seeing what the defense shows and also his throwing is a bit weak.

But with the coaching staff that we have, our backups do not see the field at all unless our Starter is carried off the field and even then they put the starter back in. Could McGuire be the next up and comer we will never know, so far we have seen him on short yardage and one nice spiral which missed the receiver.

For me I find it pretty hard to spend over $500,000 on Nichols for next year, If Nichols didn't have Harris in the back field what would he really looked like as a starter and same goes for Streveler? Nichols can't take a hit anymore and if Streveler can't get his passing game going defenses will be hitting him like a RB and he won't see a full season.

If MOS moves on maybe our next coach will bring in his own QB and coaches to take us to the next step on the ladder, and maybe not so stubborn and don't give a starter position to a guy until he proves he is better then the rest. Nichols has proved he could move the ball but lately with all his injuries seems to throw the ball away sooner.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: In Motion on October 31, 2019, 04:25:14 PM
I'm quite sure Collaros wants to go back East, but I really like him. Streveler is not a #1 QB in my books, but a fantastic #2.  I'm 50/50 on keeping Nicholls if he demands a lucrative salary. McGuire looks promising, but
who knows.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 31, 2019, 05:35:52 PM
I'm quite sure Collaros wants to go back East, but I really like him. Streveler is not a #1 QB in my books, but a fantastic #2.  I'm 50/50 on keeping Nicholls if he demands a lucrative salary. McGuire looks promising, but
who knows.

If Collaros loses the next game I think he'll be quickly forgotten and only remembered as a late season rental that won a single game, not seen as a QB to build the future upon.  As for Streveler, he's not perfect but he brings a lot to the table with his great running ability, I don't think he'll become a legitimate starter anytime soon but I can see why an OC like LaPo would want to keep him around in a secondary role, if only to design "special" plays around.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on October 31, 2019, 05:58:52 PM
I agree if the bombers don't win the WFS, ZC8 will a forgotten man. Right now he is the best chance we have to get to the GC, but what is that really saying. A few short weeks ago about 95% of the people on this board didn't want him here. However if Lapo can put together a good game plan with a one, two punch of ZC8 and Strv17, I think this O could get us to the GC.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 31, 2019, 06:08:40 PM
I agree if the bombers don't win the WFS, ZC8 will a forgotten man. Right now he is the best chance we have to get to the GC, but what is that really saying. A few short weeks ago about 95% of the people on this board didn't want him here. However if Lapo can put together a good game plan with a one, two punch of ZC8 and Strv17, I think this O could get us to the GC.



isn't that funny! so true, but still so funny... lol...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 31, 2019, 06:11:34 PM
I would be fine with bringing back Nichols and Streveler. Unless we can get Masoli for a lot less than BLM or Reilly wage rates then I don't really see any better options. For those talking about Evans, fat chance, he is not a FA. Arbuckle...I'm not sold on him, I think he's a product of a very well oiled Stamps offence. Collaros, love his fire...but realistically no one in their right mind should roll the dice on his concussion history and I highly doubt anyone will. He will go to Toronto and hold a clipboard and that is the only place he will do that.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 31, 2019, 06:12:50 PM
Many on here have seen what our QBs look like from TC and also practices so would any of you think that McGuire looks like a guy to keep around over the like of Streveler. We have seen what Streveler brings to the field, he likes to run before looking at all the receivers but he is very good at running. Not what you want from your starter, he needs more coaching in seeing what the defense shows and also his throwing is a bit weak.

But with the coaching staff that we have, our backups do not see the field at all unless our Starter is carried off the field and even then they put the starter back in. Could McGuire be the next up and comer we will never know, so far we have seen him on short yardage and one nice spiral which missed the receiver.

For me I find it pretty hard to spend over $500,000 on Nichols for next year, If Nichols didn't have Harris in the back field what would he really looked like as a starter and same goes for Streveler? Nichols can't take a hit anymore and if Streveler can't get his passing game going defenses will be hitting him like a RB and he won't see a full season.

If MOS moves on maybe our next coach will bring in his own QB and coaches to take us to the next step on the ladder, and maybe not so stubborn and don't give a starter position to a guy until he proves he is better then the rest. Nichols has proved he could move the ball but lately with all his injuries seems to throw the ball away sooner.

Streveler, based on what I've seen from McGuire in a few practices, is still the better prospect.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 31, 2019, 06:16:03 PM
Many on here have seen what our QBs look like from TC and also practices so would any of you think that McGuire looks like a guy to keep around over the like of Streveler. We have seen what Streveler brings to the field, he likes to run before looking at all the receivers but he is very good at running. Not what you want from your starter, he needs more coaching in seeing what the defense shows and also his throwing is a bit weak.

But with the coaching staff that we have, our backups do not see the field at all unless our Starter is carried off the field and even then they put the starter back in. Could McGuire be the next up and comer we will never know, so far we have seen him on short yardage and one nice spiral which missed the receiver.

For me I find it pretty hard to spend over $500,000 on Nichols for next year, If Nichols didn't have Harris in the back field what would he really looked like as a starter and same goes for Streveler? Nichols can't take a hit anymore and if Streveler can't get his passing game going defenses will be hitting him like a RB and he won't see a full season.

If MOS moves on maybe our next coach will bring in his own QB and coaches to take us to the next step on the ladder, and maybe not so stubborn and don't give a starter position to a guy until he proves he is better then the rest. Nichols has proved he could move the ball but lately with all his injuries seems to throw the ball away sooner.

All 9 CFL starters this year were injured. I guess no one can take a hit. Unless a QB has a concussion history or their injury is one that has a history of lingering, I don't think we should exclude them from being our QB next year. To those who say what's the difference, shoulder or concussion, there is a massive difference. Shoulders can heal and be just as strong as pre-injury with little chance of re-occurring problems. Concussions become more and more frequent, take less and less to sustain them, and take longer and longer to heal from. Collaros even with a slight concussion is likely to miss an entire season, perhaps even retire.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on October 31, 2019, 07:28:00 PM
I would be fine with bringing back Nichols and Streveler. Unless we can get Masoli for a lot less than BLM or Reilly wage rates then I don't really see any better options. For those talking about Evans, fat chance, he is not a FA. Arbuckle...I'm not sold on him, I think he's a product of a very well oiled Stamps offence. Collaros, love his fire...but realistically no one in their right mind should roll the dice on his concussion history and I highly doubt anyone will. He will go to Toronto and hold a clipboard and that is the only place he will do that.

Think there's any chance that ZC becomes backup in Hammy to Evans, with Masoli going to FA? It's home for him, he has a history there, and can step in in a pinch like he has done here.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on October 31, 2019, 07:29:53 PM
I would be fine with bringing back Nichols and Streveler. Unless we can get Masoli for a lot less than BLM or Reilly wage rates then I don't really see any better options. For those talking about Evans, fat chance, he is not a FA. Arbuckle...I'm not sold on him, I think he's a product of a very well oiled Stamps offence. Collaros, love his fire...but realistically no one in their right mind should roll the dice on his concussion history and I highly doubt anyone will. He will go to Toronto and hold a clipboard and that is the only place he will do that.

This is about where I'm at. I like Masoli, and there's a chance he shakes loose. Don't know if we would go for him unless there was a coaching change. I'm skeptical of a QB coming out of Calgary and being successful in a different situation.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on October 31, 2019, 07:34:21 PM
This is about where I'm at. I like Masoli, and there's a chance he shakes loose. Don't know if we would go for him unless there was a coaching change. I'm skeptical of a QB coming out of Calgary and being successful in a different situation.
Macbeth could be a real winner with a good OL and running game.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 31, 2019, 07:41:55 PM
This is about where I'm at. I like Masoli, and there's a chance he shakes loose. Don't know if we would go for him unless there was a coaching change. I'm skeptical of a QB coming out of Calgary and being successful in a different situation.

Masoli is good, but he wouldn't be plug and play in any offence, he'd need a rejig of the playbook and personnel around his abilities and that may take half a season or more, best thing a team could do is bring Condell along for the ride.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on October 31, 2019, 07:46:19 PM
Macbeth could be a real winner with a good OL and running game.

We've already had him and sent him packing - and I expect him to stay in TO.

Masoli is good, but he wouldn't be plug and play in any offence, he'd need a rejig of the playbook and personnel around his abilities and that may take half a season or more, best thing a team could do is bring Condell along for the ride.

I only think Masoli is likely with a coaching change...meaning someone from Hamilton coming and taking Masoli with them.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BlueInCgy on October 31, 2019, 07:47:59 PM
We've already had him and sent him packing - and I expect him to stay in TO.

I only think Masoli is likely with a coaching change...meaning someone from Hamilton coming and taking Masoli with them.

Condell + Masoli wouldn't be the worst package....


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on October 31, 2019, 07:51:23 PM
Condell + Masoli wouldn't be the worst package....

It's something I've tossed around in my head.

I love O'Shea for the most part, but I think I'm ready for a shake up.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on October 31, 2019, 07:55:49 PM
Condell + Masoli wouldn't be the worst package....

With Strev as backup, oh my...

It's something I've tossed around in my head.

I love O'Shea for the most part, but I think I'm ready for a shake up.

It my not end up being our (the Bombers') choice


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on October 31, 2019, 08:13:21 PM

It my not end up being our (the Bombers') choice

I think it will be, but it is very up in the air.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on October 31, 2019, 08:46:42 PM
 I would not be too confident on Nichols health going forward. A similar shoulder injury pretty much did in Lulays career. That shoulder will never be as strong and will be prone to reinjury.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 31, 2019, 09:42:21 PM
I would not be too confident on Nichols health going forward. A similar shoulder injury pretty much did in Lulays career. That shoulder will never be as strong and will be prone to reinjury.

I don't know if Lulay ever rehabbed completely, it always seemed that Wally was rushing him back too early because Jennings couldn't step up when he needed to.  Nichols seems to be pretty confident he will recover to !00%, let's hope.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on November 01, 2019, 12:13:20 AM
I don't know if Lulay ever rehabbed completely, it always seemed that Wally was rushing him back too early because Jennings couldn't step up when he needed to.  Nichols seems to be pretty confident he will recover to !00%, let's hope.

 What else is he going to say? He is looking for a new contract. Shoulders don?t seem to mend that well. It is a area that takes a lot of impact. Time will tell.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on November 01, 2019, 12:30:08 AM
Condell + Masoli wouldn't be the worst package....

 I think Condell would make a great HC.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on November 01, 2019, 07:41:21 AM
It's status quo next year.

Collaros: everyone picking him needs to listen to 66 and the others.  He played great in 1 game, and I'm thankful for that.  Only if he gets us to the GC will we see any serious consideration of Collaros for 2020.  I advise everyone to go read the SSK sign Collaros for '19 season thread from 10 months back.  If you were against Collaros in SSK then, why are you for Collaros in WPG now?  Nothing has changed.  He'll likely get concussed during a full season.  Collaros might be the perfect "next Kevin Glenn".

Nichols: "fragile"?  That's a laugh.  The dude took an unblocked, full speed, full weight Lemon Drop fully on his back.  It busted his shoulder.  It would have busted Hulk Hogan's shoulder too.  That's not fragile, that's a Bryant mistake and an obvious outcome.  Is M.Reilly fragile?  Because he took the exact same hit with slightly different arm position, and oh look, he broke his wrist into dozens of shards.  Nichols took a ton of hits last year and this and he's had very few, never twice in the same place, injuries.  Is that 3 injuries in 8 years in the CFL?  That's not fragile, that's normal.

Bonus points for Nichols: no way he negotiates a monster contract after <200 yard games and injury-bench for most of 2019.  He'll ask for the same $$ and probably accept less.  He likes it here.  Why on earth would he want to go play for the few teams that would want him and get killed by their garbage OLs??

Strev: Current best SY player in the league, almost as good as LeFevour was.  And can start in a pinch.  Now we know we we don't start him for longer than it takes to find a passing starter should our #1 go down.  But he'll win 50% of the games in a pinch.  And I really love the system we were developing with Strev taking a bigger role in the Nichols offence.  Why not stick with that?  Each time Strev improves his pass game we get that much more dangerous.  And why would he want to leave?  No one is going to start him as #1, nor are they giving him a big payday as the SY guy.  Most teams will want #2 to be a strong passer.  Nope, Strev stays here and stays very affordable.

McGuire: Odd man out because of asinine only-2-QB Ambrosie nonsense in 2020.  That's the end of the CFL developing QBs.  They either light it up on their very first time on the field or they won't be here.

Masoli: Fully agree with most that he's literally the only other realistic QB option I'd like to see here.  I've been high on Masoli since 2 years before he became the #1 in HAM.  Real blue collar guy would fit right in.  Would also fit with the Lapo O scheme.  But I like Nichols better for continuity's sake.  And why would Masoli choose to come here?  Not sure it's his #1 (or 2 or 5) choice.  And Masoli will demand far more $$ than Nichols.

MBT: The league's crazy man.  That guy is nuts, and I really like watching him play.  If he's cheap, and Nichols abandons us, and Masoli says no, I'd take MBT as #1 in WPG.  But then we'd need a new OC because MBT is the opposite of a Lapo scheme.  MBT also seems to have trouble as a leader of men.  Seems like a Cato.  Could easily lose the team.  Not really MOS's M.O..  Call him a long shot.

My 2c.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 01, 2019, 07:50:56 AM
It's status quo next year.

Collaros: everyone picking him needs to listen to 66 and the others.  He played great in 1 game, and I'm thankful for that.  Only if he gets us to the GC will we see any serious consideration of Collaros for 2020.  I advise everyone to go read the SSK sign Collaros for '19 season thread from 10 months back.  If you were against Collaros in SSK then, why are you for Collaros in WPG now?  Nothing has changed.  He'll likely get concussed during a full season.  Collaros might be the perfect "next Kevin Glenn".

Nichols: "fragile"?  That's a laugh.  The dude took an unblocked, full speed, full weight Lemon Drop fully on his back.  It busted his shoulder.  It would have busted Hulk Hogan's shoulder too.  That's not fragile, that's a Bryant mistake and an obvious outcome.  Is M.Reilly fragile?  Because he took the exact same hit with slightly different arm position, and oh look, he broke his wrist into dozens of shards.  Nichols took a ton of hits last year and this and he's had very few, never twice in the same place, injuries.  Is that 3 injuries in 8 years in the CFL?  That's not fragile, that's normal.

Bonus points for Nichols: no way he negotiates a monster contract after <200 yard games and injury-bench for most of 2019.  He'll ask for the same $$ and probably accept less.  He likes it here.  Why on earth would he want to go play for the few teams that would want him and get killed by their garbage OLs??

Strev: Current best SY player in the league, almost as good as LeFevour was.  And can start in a pinch.  Now we know we we don't start him for longer than it takes to find a passing starter should our #1 go down.  But he'll win 50% of the games in a pinch.  And I really love the system we were developing with Strev taking a bigger role in the Nichols offence.  Why not stick with that?  Each time Strev improves his pass game we get that much more dangerous.  And why would he want to leave?  No one is going to start him as #1, nor are they giving him a big payday as the SY guy.  Most teams will want #2 to be a strong passer.  Nope, Strev stays here and stays very affordable.

McGuire: Odd man out because of asinine only-2-QB Ambrosie nonsense in 2020.  That's the end of the CFL developing QBs.  They either light it up on their very first time on the field or they won't be here.

Masoli: Fully agree with most that he's literally the only other realistic QB option I'd like to see here.  I've been high on Masoli since 2 years before he became the #1 in HAM.  Real blue collar guy would fit right in.  Would also fit with the Lapo O scheme.  But I like Nichols better for continuity's sake.  And why would Masoli choose to come here?  Not sure it's his #1 (or 2 or 5) choice.  And Masoli will demand far more $$ than Nichols.

MBT: The league's crazy man.  That guy is nuts, and I really like watching him play.  If he's cheap, and Nichols abandons us, and Masoli says no, I'd take MBT as #1 in WPG.  But then we'd need a new OC because MBT is the opposite of a Lapo scheme.  MBT also seems to have trouble as a leader of men.  Seems like a Cato.  Could easily lose the team.  Not really MOS's M.O..  Call him a long shot.

My 2c.

Status quo? I sure as hell hope not!

No Arbuckle description. FA to be and not even a blurb? lol cannot take this post seriously without that. Arbuckle has the most upside of any QB heading into free agency. To say he is a product of the team around him is ridiculous. He has shown he can make all the throws to perform at a super high level in this league.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: bluebeard on November 01, 2019, 05:08:30 PM
Dave Dickenson did not want Arbuckle cut previously but was over ruled.  He went to BC the next season and was cut. He was scooped by Dickenson and returned to Calgary.  He played brilliantly when Levi was injured.  Arbuckle's stats were better then Levi's prior to his injury.

I am a firm believer in D Dickenson knowing what his QBs can do or not do.  Wanting Arbuckle back says a lot to me.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: lenny on November 01, 2019, 06:24:50 PM
Collaros takes the Bombers to the promised land and wins it that alone should give him first dibs on a contract. I don't think it would be a contract he would want though as it would have to be heavily weighted to performance which presumes durability.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on November 02, 2019, 06:46:10 AM
Status quo? I sure as hell hope not!

No Arbuckle description. FA to be and not even a blurb? lol cannot take this post seriously without that. Arbuckle has the most upside of any QB heading into free agency. To say he is a product of the team around him is ridiculous. He has shown he can make all the throws to perform at a super high level in this league.

I forgot Arbuckle, but I've commented on him previously.  I agree with the "product of the CGY system" people.  Besides the best OL and amazing CGY system, Arbuckle had freakin' Rogers and Begelton as well as all the noobs who as always light it up for CGY.  Any QB would look good with Begelton.  I think with all those crosses he sports that he might in fact be the second coming.

You know I'm no Faker EDIT fan, but I'd probably rate EDIT above Arbuckle.  EDIT is making it happen with a sub-par O.  Sure, Arbuckle is "good", but I'd peg him at best as middle-of-the-pack good.  No one to go chasing after.  He's no better than Nichols, who would also look great in the CGY system.

And if I was Dickerson The Greater I would retain Arbuckle in 2020 because he's good enough to win and knows the CGY system as well as BLM.  Arbuckle is smart enough to know it's better as #2 winning in CGY than taking a bit more money to start on a garbage team in the east and then disappear after underperforming.  If he plays his cards right he could be heir apparent to BLM who isn't getting any younger.

As such I don't think Arbuckle warrants any attention on our part, and any discussion is pointless because he won't leave CGY.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on November 02, 2019, 08:11:08 PM
I forgot Arbuckle, but I've commented on him previously.  I agree with the "product of the CGY system" people.  Besides the best OL and amazing CGY system, Arbuckle had freakin' Rogers and Begelton as well as all the noobs who as always light it up for CGY.  Any QB would look good with Begelton.  I think with all those crosses he sports that he might in fact be the second coming.

You know I'm no Faker EDIT fan, but I'd probably rate EDIT above Arbuckle.  EDIT is making it happen with a sub-par O.  Sure, Arbuckle is "good", but I'd peg him at best as middle-of-the-pack good.  No one to go chasing after.  He's no better than Nichols, who would also look great in the CGY system.

And if I was Dickerson The Greater I would retain Arbuckle in 2020 because he's good enough to win and knows the CGY system as well as BLM.  Arbuckle is smart enough to know it's better as #2 winning in CGY than taking a bit more money to start on a garbage team in the east and then disappear after underperforming.  If he plays his cards right he could be heir apparent to BLM who isn't getting any younger.

As such I don't think Arbuckle warrants any attention on our part, and any discussion is pointless because he won't leave CGY.


Arbuckle is like three years younger than BLM and wouldn't be "smart" to sit behind a guy that's going to play for ten more years. That's ridiculous.

He's a competitive athlete and is going to want to get his shot. His agent is a business man is is going to get him maximum value.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on November 02, 2019, 08:23:52 PM
Who is EDIT  ???


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 02, 2019, 08:53:07 PM
Arbuckle is like three years younger than BLM and wouldn't be "smart" to sit behind a guy that's going to play for ten more years. That's ridiculous.

He's a competitive athlete and is going to want to get his shot. His agent is a business man is is going to get him maximum value.
^^ THIS! He?d be great with our OL.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BBRT on November 02, 2019, 10:30:08 PM
Dave Dickenson did not want Arbuckle cut previously but was over ruled.  He went to BC the next season and was cut. He was scooped by Dickenson and returned to Calgary.  He played brilliantly when Levi was injured.  Arbuckle's stats were better then Levi's prior to his injury.

I am a firm believer in D Dickenson knowing what his QBs can do or not do.  Wanting Arbuckle back says a lot to me.

That's how I see it. Dickerson is a whinny little dude but he knows his QB's and knows what is necessary to win. And backing him up is the best GM in the league. I really don't want Nichols or Collaros or Strev back in 2020. Time for some changes from top to bottom.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on November 02, 2019, 11:47:48 PM
I keep saying that if we keep the same OC that 1) Lapo will turn them into the same thing we have today, and 2) some may take a pass on coming here because he is the OC... after looking at both of these last 2 Calgary games due to how similar the final stats were, I decided to look at it even closer and see if my theory was right... to me, I think it does when you take a look at the data in the graphs below...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IbjwRtJtD8XpQFRg0WJgyAVXBXZ7yXx187xrXYaKgtmdzDtoVv8KSIowJyOFkrGAS47RPEenrmmuUL8QVKdf3jhc7U2x98wvzXxjyBY0vvZG-JNV3fhuOVwRRcWhfVpxkZ8_G8_32QjLKKpFvVD4Hs20l-VJryGMNqe1mJUp8W5lFXDa2esH30YHZPp3Da3zEHSgDNe9sMqTs0jthVf3c2JNy7F8zO4bCM2YPuIp_qW8mV4psHZdJeHTfE9XA_gijoKs8NCA7-g6FOy3evmxEp9Lm8NIgj5378V7twHb0A9yiQ7S0Lruc19LNgEZYS9kSJVLiYrFhtqEs1PT-xndxfhKKvXRnqo8ZgQOrFaC4h5r1rT-KpOqSz38gF-1mzDFFM9JtGn6OvVv19u_21YJOkNWZtBNhVM1S_G1SYoehjoMP_Z5KLEhmS0cpZWn_R3reg1U8lgk5NWgYyxBS9_Rx_kNh-Eb7ymiBXOo9Fy53Xik7tHTUUWKfbVIriq_TWNI8gZMq1Gd_s4pfQ9oofve4o1gCu33NB_J3pXY4cN_9RNJ9rcMOm7p-PWxJ7ny_EjkIW4ybtNBCTdYDcJulbmrEqMsBpH6vjxUiOzDqfntIDFBgjZTWpqXhJLg9zPYI64LfbkqA4Ubf3WMss1MBFRTiVV2aJYrvfC8xhoG2_-XisHMqKp-COk44hE=w686-h415-no)

for starters, the top row, 1st column shows the number of each type of play called, GM2 shows we had 5 more plays in that game than GM1 and that was due to having several 3rd and 1's were we converted... the middle shows the number of plays that include the rushing plays and ONLY completed passes... as you can see there is a difference of only 1 play... the last column show offense by type, only 4 yds different total but approximately 100 yds difference between the 2 games in both rushing and passing...

for me, it's when you get to row 2 that it gets really interesting, like I said above, in both games there were 29 passing attempts... the 1st column shows the passes thrown by target receiver depth, whether complete or not... they are almost identical in targeted receivers by depth... also, when you look at column 2 you see the completions numbers by targeted depth are very similar as well... column 3 shows that completed pass and total yards gained by each reception...  all of row 3 is a consolidation of the same info of row 2 but instead of 5 yd increments it is done in 10 yards increments...

it looks to me that Lapo called the same exact game for each of these 2 quarterbacks... which makes you shake your head just a bit because why would you do so when you have one guy that is a 'running' QB and the other a much more proficient 'throwing' QB... it goes to my theory that regardless of player, Lapo is going to have them run a set game plan that may not necessarily suit them or their best skill set...

I believe that Collaros big difference in yardage has a lot to do with yards after the catch because when you look at the data the number of completions for each were very similar... so why did Collaros get more yards? I believe that it was because Calgary wasn't expecting that type of passing attack from Collaros, that given his abilities they were concerned about throws of all lengths... conversely, for Streveler, Calgary was playing up because they knew that it was going to be either a run or the short throw... Collaros made them play more 'honest'... the bad thing about that is when every figures that out and then any QB within that system will become less effective...

but why wouldn't you give your throwing QB a diffferent game plan, or play set, than you gave your running QB? Lapo is too wrapped up in making everyone fit into his box instead of helping his QB's and receivers be more successful...

if Lapo stays it will be more of the same regardless of who you plug in the QB slot...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Dodge and Burn on November 03, 2019, 12:08:10 AM
If he gets to FA, I'm on the Masoli train.

Still have this gut feeling though ZC takes us on a magical trip to winning the Grey Cup this year...

Calling it right now.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on November 03, 2019, 02:12:16 AM
I really really want Strev back next year, but definitely not with our eggs in his basket as starter. I think he knows he still has work to do and has a great opportunity in Winnipeg to get the amount of work in short yard/special packages, etc that he wants, that he will sign an extension. QB1 is wide open for me, though. If one of the new guys (eg Arbuckle) or displaced guys (Masoli) shakes lose, I'm open to them to be our starter. I am also still open to Nichols again.

Having Strev as a competent and different-look #2 is a great weapon. We just need someone reliable and steady for our #1.

...or do we want to move away from "reliable and steady" altogether and go for a more exciting gameplan??


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: catfan on November 03, 2019, 07:36:52 AM
If he gets to FA, I'm on the Masoli train.

Still have this gut feeling though ZC takes us on a magical trip to winning the Grey Cup this year...

Calling it right now.

Zac may get you by Calgary and the Riders, but the Cats have got your number.
But I do hope you make it to the big dance, because I don't want to meet the stamps there.


chow Catfan


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on November 03, 2019, 12:17:14 PM
Zac may get you by Calgary and the Riders, but the Cats have got your number.
But I do hope you make it to the big dance, because I don't want to meet the stamps there.


chow Catfan

Tough to win three games a year against the same team. Unless you're in a division where you play Toronto and Ottawa three times, I mean.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 03, 2019, 03:45:28 PM
I don't believe the majority of potential offensive free agents really factor who the OC is in their decision. They might consider who the QB is more importantly but the CFL is now a " show me the money " situation for the most part. That and possible proximity to home for example.

We may lose Petermann in free agency out east. Money difference shouldn't be that significant. Family back east might be. Although if we lose Woli then Petermann could be next up as a starter rather than a back up.

Like always it's what happens 1st before the dominos start to fall.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 03, 2019, 08:31:53 PM
I don't believe the majority of potential offensive free agents really factor who the OC is in their decision. They might consider who the QB is more importantly but the CFL is now a " show me the money " situation for the most part. That and possible proximity to home for example.

We may lose Petermann in free agency out east. Money difference shouldn't be that significant. Family back east might be. Although if we lose Woli then Petermann could be next up as a starter rather than a back up.

Like always it's what happens 1st before the dominos start to fall.


I'm pretty happy with the receiving corps. overall, with Woli, Adams, Bailey and Lawler they've finally increased the size factor and have moved away from the smurf element. Increased size helps in the passing game fighting for balls as well as with blocking assignments on any play.  I have no problem with keeping Whitehead, Nelson and Petermann if they want to stick around but they should only be used as backups or as specialty players. I think Whitehead has the potential to transform into another Brandon Banks if he's persistent enough to keep at it, but then again the opportunity for him to excel may not be present in this offence.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on November 05, 2019, 10:21:35 AM
Who is EDIT  ???

I got spanked by the mods.  The fine gentlemen named EDIT is Mr. Cody.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on November 05, 2019, 10:30:26 AM
I believe that Collaros big difference in yardage has a lot to do with yards after the catch because when you look at the data the number of completions for each were very similar... so why did Collaros get more yards? I believe that it was because Calgary wasn't expecting that type of passing attack from Collaros, that given his abilities they were concerned about throws of all lengths... conversely, for Streveler, Calgary was playing up because they knew that it was going to be either a run or the short throw... Collaros made them play more 'honest'... the bad thing about that is when every figures that out and then any QB within that system will become less effective...

Interesting theory about Lapo.  Do you have the exact stat on how the YAC differed in the air attack between the 2 games?

If Collaros got significantly more YAC, it's got to be because he was noticeably quicker on the decision and throw than Strev.  And when it needs to be, he zips the ball in much faster than Strev.  I think Collaros gives D's far less time to respond to what is happening, and provides less of a tell (staredowns, etc).  All of this is an advantage for receivers to be more open when the ball hits them.

Collaros also placed the ball much better, at or ahead of the receiver.  Strev had a penchant of being more of a behind thrower.  That also goes to YAC.  I only remember one Zach ball thrown what I'd call "behind"; well, that and the INT.

All of this stuff is due to Zach's vast experience.  Strev may get there eventually, but he needs to watch the vets and practice some more.  A lot more.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 05, 2019, 02:11:03 PM
Collaros was hitting receivers while they were still moving forward ( more often ) and not at a dead stop. That accounted for longer receptions and more YAC. Quicker releases accounted for part of that.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 05, 2019, 03:26:13 PM
Collaros was hitting receivers while they were still moving forward ( more often ) and not at a dead stop. That accounted for longer receptions and more YAC. Quicker releases accounted for part of that.

There is no comparison between ZCs and CSs ability to hit players on the move. That being said, some of that was due to the play packages installed for each. Lapo knows that Strev is not the best pure passer so he game him nice stationary targets in the game plan and tons of running, with ZC Lapo was able to do more of the Nichols play book.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on November 05, 2019, 03:37:41 PM
Collaros has more mobility then Nichols and a better arm.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on November 05, 2019, 05:59:24 PM
Collaros was hitting receivers while they were still moving forward ( more often ) and not at a dead stop. That accounted for longer receptions and more YAC. Quicker releases accounted for part of that.

I don't know... lol... I think if you go back and watch it again you'll see something different... just sayin'...  and not that it really matters a whole heck of a lot, it is what it is... or it is what it was, lol...  ;D


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 05, 2019, 06:42:10 PM
...and the Legend of Zach continues to grow. Are we that QB deficient that a 220 yard 2 TD performance is spoken about like it was an MVP performance?

I'm as happy as the next guy that we won that game, and that ZC was able to prove he still has some game left....but really...he wasn't even the best QB in that game. ZC gives us some hope but let's not overstate it, he's not going to win a playoff game for us. We need a big day by Andrew Harris, and the D to get past Calgary. We simply need ZC to chip in what he can.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on November 05, 2019, 07:45:25 PM
he didn't play bad for not having played for a year and a half... the best part to me was that he didn't lose the game for us, so that's a plus and a great place to start...

I think he could win us a playoff game, but not if Lapo plans on calling another game like the last one though... like I said earlier, in this thread I believe, is that I hope that Lapo has used that big giant brain of his to come up with a game plan that uses both ZC8 and CS17 to keep Calgary off balance and not sure of whats going on...  I guess we'll have to wait and see...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on November 05, 2019, 08:14:22 PM
...and the Legend of Zach continues to grow. Are we that QB deficient that a 220 yard 2 TD performance is spoken about like it was an MVP performance?

I'm as happy as the next guy that we won that game, and that ZC was able to prove he still has some game left....but really...he wasn't even the best QB in that game. ZC gives us some hope but let's not overstate it, he's not going to win a playoff game for us. We need a big day by Andrew Harris, and the D to get past Calgary. We simply need ZC to chip in what he can.

I remember in 2014 when we signed Drew Willy. We spent the better part of the previous 5 seasons with deplorable QBing. In one of the first plays of the first game that season, Drew lobbed up a reasonably distanced ball and a receiver caught it. The crowd at IGF and myself all completely lost our s***.

You would have thought it capped off a 500 yard, 6 TD performance or something.

These are the times we live in, in Winnipeg!!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on November 05, 2019, 08:42:52 PM
IMO we haven't had a QB that was exciting to watch since Khari and that was 15 years ago.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on November 05, 2019, 08:57:34 PM
IMO we haven't had a QB that was exciting to watch since Khari and that was 15 years ago.

I gave Glenn the benefit. But you're probably right.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on November 06, 2019, 03:47:45 AM
I think he could win us a playoff game, but not if Lapo plans on calling another game like the last one though... like I said earlier, in this thread I believe, is that I hope that Lapo has used that big giant brain of his to come up with a game plan that uses both ZC8 and CS17 to keep Calgary off balance and not sure of whats going on...  I guess we'll have to wait and see...

This is precisely what we need to do.  I would go so far as to give them close to 50% reps each.  That's assuming Strev can play.  If he can't, oooh boy, it may be a long night.

I would also make protecting Collaros job #1.  Dude can play well if he doesn't take a hit.  I don't want to see stuff like we saw last game.  As we've seen, CGY is playing for keeps on the hits.  I hope Nevis/Richardson/Jeffcoat/Fatboi/Biggie can lay some wood on BLM in return.  Just watch the timing and placement Jeffcoat!  ;)


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on November 06, 2019, 02:29:09 PM
If healthy, I expect Strev to come into games in the same fashion as he used to when Nichols was the starter. Come in for short yardage and let him progress the series and change the look. It might be for a few more plays, or he might finish the series and result in points?

I also expect him to come in on second and short. Calgary won't know what we do, then. Plunge, hand off and pound with AH, trick play, long bomb...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 06, 2019, 02:33:53 PM
If healthy, I expect Strev to come into games in the same fashion as he used to when Nichols was the starter. Come in for short yardage and let him progress the series and change the look. It might be for a few more plays, or he might finish the series and result in points?

I also expect him to come in on second and short. Calgary won't know what we do, then. Plunge, hand off and pound with AH, trick play, long bomb...


+1


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 06, 2019, 05:16:07 PM
he didn't play bad for not having played for a year and a half... the best part to me was that he didn't lose the game for us, so that's a plus and a great place to start...

I think he could win us a playoff game, but not if Lapo plans on calling another game like the last one though... like I said earlier, in this thread I believe, is that I hope that Lapo has used that big giant brain of his to come up with a game plan that uses both ZC8 and CS17 to keep Calgary off balance and not sure of whats going on...  I guess we'll have to wait and see...

The unfortunate thing about playing Calgary 3 times in the last few months is they'll remember exactly what they need to do when Streveler comes into the game and immediately make adjustments.  I agree using both is the right approach for the Bombers, but I'm not sure it will surprise the Stamps unless Streveler pulls a rabbit out of his hat and attacks them deep.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 06, 2019, 06:26:53 PM
Collaros reported to be taking 1st string reps. Not a surprise. Didn't hear any mention of whether Streveler is even practicing? Hopefully he will be also be available.

It sounds like same defense taking 1st string reps. That sounds like no Gaitor or Fenner at this point.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Stretch on November 06, 2019, 06:29:23 PM
Collaros reported to be taking 1st string reps. Not a surprise. Didn't hear any mention of whether Streveler is even practicing?

@DarrinBauming
Chris Streveler appears able-bodied and involved at #Bombers practice today. Zach Collaros is running the 1s.

#Bombers starting centre Michael Couture is a non-participant today. It was nearly two weeks ago he left the game and did not return. Not a good sign. But the positive is Winnipeg's depth at OL.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 06, 2019, 06:49:37 PM


That's good to know. Streveler can still be an important part of our combined offense. I'm not suggesting a 2 QB system but as a short yard and a series immediately after in hurry up is useful.

The reality I'm more concerned about our defense regardless of who lines up. We're Jekyll and Hyde on defense.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on November 06, 2019, 08:14:15 PM
Having both, and using them effectively, will mean success from the QB position.  If the rest of the team delivers, there is strong hope for a Cup.

Streveler will upset the D any time he enters the game. but let Collaros do his thing.  If the D starts settling in, bring in Streveler, especially in 2nd and short.  My favourite play of the Bombers game is the Lapo 2nd and a yard play call.  


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue72 on November 07, 2019, 12:19:57 AM
I wonder which officials will be calling the game?  If Streveler is in on a short yardage play then all of a sudden he goes into a hurry up offense on first down will the refs whistle in the play right away or wait until everyone is ready. This gives Calgary a chance to be ready for whatever Streveler does.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: ichabod_crane on November 25, 2019, 04:14:48 AM
Enjoying the tremendous win today to break the "curse" of 29 years! Later this week on who will be our qb next season will be a legitimate question though. After this ride cannot see how they would not want to sign Collaros to be the starter next season.  He brings things to the table that Nichols can't. He showed he still has the talent and skills to be a top notch starter in this league. Think he really regained a second life and close to MVP form he had 4-5 years ago late this season. Maybe still being one bad head shot away from hanging it up might limit what length of contract they might offer him though. Strev's not going to start anywhere else I would expect so should still be in the stable as the backup hopefully.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BigBomberFan on November 25, 2019, 04:23:57 AM
Enjoying the tremendous win today to break the "curse" of 29 years! Later this week on who will be our qb next season will be a legitimate question though. After this ride cannot see how they would not want to sign Collaros to be the starter next season.  He brings things to the table that Nichols can't. He showed he still has the talent and skills to be a top notch starter in this league. Think he really regained a second life and close to MVP form he had 4-5 years ago late this season. Maybe still being one bad head shot away from hanging it up might limit what length of contract they might offer him though. Strev's not going to start anywhere else I would expect so should still be in the stable as the backup hopefully.

They would be foolish to not sign Collaros, for sure. One thing that bodes well is that he's finally playing behind a great O-line, so he's not running for his life and getting pounded like he was in Hamilton. His long term longevity should be much better now. Also, because he had almost a whole season off this year, he's finally got some rest and recuperation time that has allowed him to come back closer to that 100 percent that he would want to be at.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue72 on November 25, 2019, 04:30:40 AM
If we keep  Collaros do we still have to give TO both 1st and 3rd or just 1st? Also it will depend where MOS goes or stays because he loves Nichols, but it will also depend on Nichols throwing shoulder.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: jeremy q public on November 25, 2019, 04:47:51 AM
IIRC instead of the 3rd we give up the 1st.

I hope we keep Collaros. It would be very stressful, because of the injury possibility and because Streveler is the kind of backup who needs a starter, but **** is it good to watch football with a QB like Collaros in charge. I love Nichols, and his game management style can win games, but Collaros is a dynamic PLAYER. In situations where Nichols would throw it away, and Streveler would run, Collaros is moving around and finding ways to get the ball downfield. The way he played this year is the most exciting QB play we've had since Matt Dunigan. Keep in mind it's just a few games so that's a very small sample size, but it just makes me want more.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: In Motion on November 25, 2019, 05:44:57 AM
Just my instinct, but I know Nicholls was very hurt by fans here last season, and may be
ready to move elsewhere.

On a sidenote... now that we've won a Cup, won't a lot more players want to come here?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on November 25, 2019, 01:13:49 PM
Just my instinct, but I know Nicholls was very hurt by fans here last season, and may be
ready to move elsewhere.

On a sidenote... now that we've won a Cup, won't a lot more players want to come here?

I guarantee he wants to stay.

Our coaching staff needs to be addressed (Lapo will look for opportunties) and then we need to figure out the direction we want to go.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: bigbuff33 on November 25, 2019, 01:54:35 PM
Don't if we can spend this much on QB's, but...

Signing Collaris and Strev would be perfect!!!

Going to be some tough decisions to be made


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on November 25, 2019, 02:25:55 PM
I personally think the decision is Zach's to make and not ours. I think he wants to be at home in Southern Ontario and will go to Toronto where they will for sure welcome him.

Collaros with MBT as backup would be a very strong foundation.

Too bad about the rest of that tire fire, though.

Predicting Nichols and Strev next year. I'm fine with that. We will be competitive again.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on November 25, 2019, 02:57:11 PM
Streveler and one of Nichols or Collaros is the best bet for what the Bombers will do. I'd take Collaros over Nichols as he's a much better QB when healthy.

IIRC we lose the 3rd round pick either way. In other words, it would be a 1st and a 3rd for Collaros. Expensive, but worth it. We don't need to find another NI starter next year in the draft, and our pick will be at the end of each round so our 1st would be like the Redblacks 2nd round pick.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 25, 2019, 03:00:21 PM
Just my instinct, but I know Nicholls was very hurt by fans here last season, and may be
ready to move elsewhere.

On a sidenote... now that we've won a Cup, won't a lot more players want to come here?

Nichols was interviewed during GC week and stated that he expects contract negotiations with the Bombers to begin soon.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on November 25, 2019, 03:09:25 PM
 
 Doubt very much that Collaros would want to stay. He has solid roots in the east. It is a no brainer we keep him if we can. We finally saw this group with a true elite QB and saw the results. Confidence builds and infects the whole squad. Turns out the Nichols injury was a blessing. Going back to the plodding, careful, happy footed check down, chuck into the stands style of MN will be disappointing. And likely frustrating.

 I think this season highlights that he is not the guy.

 


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on November 25, 2019, 04:52:50 PM
I really still want to know if the deal is that we lose teh first rounder if we extend Collaros while he is under his current contract, or if it extends into the time of him becoming a free agent.  I wonder if an eastern opponent can be coerced into a sign and trade deal with Collaros... get Montreal to sign him and then trade him to us for a 7th rounder... or even a neg lister... blatant skirting of the rules, but hey, if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying hard enough...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on November 25, 2019, 04:58:48 PM
I really still want to know if the deal is that we lose teh first rounder if we extend Collaros while he is under his current contract, or if it extends into the time of him becoming a free agent.  I wonder if an eastern opponent can be coerced into a sign and trade deal with Collaros... get Montreal to sign him and then trade him to us for a 7th rounder... or even a neg lister... blatant skirting of the rules, but hey, if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying hard enough...
Assume that we pay the first rounder if we sign Collaros for next year no matter if he gets to free agency or not.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on November 25, 2019, 05:00:50 PM
I would think it has to be if we sign him prior to free-agency....once he gets there you wouldn't owe any team anything...free agency is just that...free


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on November 25, 2019, 05:04:41 PM
Collaros is more of an injury risk than Nichols but he's clearly better than him too. It's a tough call. Maybe we can go after someone else all together?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on November 25, 2019, 05:05:51 PM
Assume that we pay the first rounder if we sign Collaros for next year no matter if he gets to free agency or not.

Why would you assume that?  re-signing a player usually refers to doing it before they reach free agency...  Pinball has said they intend to have Collaros as their QB next year... I'm guessing that will depend on Collaros now...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Horseman on November 25, 2019, 05:05:53 PM
I say sign Collaros (if he wants to stay) and Strev, let Nicholls walk. Collaros needs to look at the intangibles by playing here in Wpg as opposed to Toronto, like the cost of living, house prices, etc. He would be able to keep more of his salary in his pocket here as opposed to Toronto. I have no problem giving Toronto our 1st round draft pick to keep Collaros.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: bunker on November 25, 2019, 05:06:57 PM
I would sign Collaros if we can, and let Nichols go to free agency unless he is willing to sign a contract with a low base and incentives. Sure Collaros could get injured, but I think the gap between him and Nichols is large enough to warrant the risk. Would definitely need a good #2 behind him that can start. Although Streveler is a warrior, I'm not convinced he is that guy.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on November 25, 2019, 05:26:08 PM
Collaros is more of an injury risk than Nichols but he's clearly better than him too. It's a tough call. Maybe we can go after someone else all together?

I'd say at this point there are too many moving pieces to know one way or another. It sounds like Collaros is already well-established in Southern Ontario: his wife is from there, they have a home there, proximity to his hometown and family. Nichols is a pending free agent coming off a pretty serious injury, but this place has become his home and I doubt he wants to leave. Streveler is an unorthodox QB like none I've ever seen and needs to continue developing, but I could see the Bombers being the ideal place for him to do that. There are some good FA QBs out there, too.

It's near impossible - IMO - at this point in time to see how these chips are going to fall.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on November 25, 2019, 05:27:27 PM
The bonus of all this..we won the cup...and have some leeway now not being under that bursen of drought..we don't have to be desperate


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 25, 2019, 05:33:42 PM
I would think it has to be if we sign him prior to free-agency....once he gets there you wouldn't owe any team anything...free agency is just that...free

That is how I understood it as well. Seems to me I read in an article (3downnation?) that the 3rd would turn into a first if the Bombers were to sign him to an EXTENSION. Signing him in FA is NOT an extension.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on November 25, 2019, 05:34:35 PM
Why would you assume that?  re-signing a player usually refers to doing it before they reach free agency...  Pinball has said they intend to have Collaros as their QB next year... I'm guessing that will depend on Collaros now...

I doubt we can 'get around' the 1st round pick simply by letting Collaros go to free agency then signing him. It's obviously the intent of the deal that we pay a 1st if we sign him for next year.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: The Zipp on November 25, 2019, 05:37:58 PM
I doubt we can 'get around' the 1st round pick simply by letting Collaros go to free agency then signing him. It's obviously the intent of the deal that we pay a 1st if we sign him for next year.

maybe not - it might be that if you want first crack at signing him (which could be big depending on how you value him) it will cost you a first rounder...you want to compete in FA and open up the risk that you could lose him then you don't lose the higher draft pick.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on November 25, 2019, 05:41:11 PM
Why would you assume that?  re-signing a player usually refers to doing it before they reach free agency...  Pinball has said they intend to have Collaros as their QB next year... I'm guessing that will depend on Collaros now...

You proudly spout out about the "character" of our team for the last six years, then you continually spread a strategy that goes completely against their MO.

We have a trade agreement in place, they'll stick to it, not work around it.

Honestly, I doubt this is even a concern anyway.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: jeremy q public on November 25, 2019, 07:09:10 PM

 Doubt very much that Collaros would want to stay. He has solid roots in the east. It is a no brainer we keep him if we can. We finally saw this group with a true elite QB and saw the results. Confidence builds and infects the whole squad. Turns out the Nichols injury was a blessing. Going back to the plodding, careful, happy footed check down, chuck into the stands style of MN will be disappointing. And likely frustrating.

 I think this season highlights that he is not the guy.

 

This is overstating the case. Nichols is also an elite QB. Let?s not forget that we were in first place with him at the reigns. Collaros is more exciting to watch, and can stretch the field better, no doubt about that. But they are both elite QBs who could both win the cup for us. And Collaros is still potentially one concussion away from being an ex-elite QB.

I still would prefer Collaros but given his roots in the east, Toronto?s open plan to snag him, and the fact that we have Nichols under contract... chances are we?ll have Nichols next year.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on November 25, 2019, 07:21:31 PM
This is overstating the case. Nichols is also an elite QB. Let?s not forget that we were in first place with him at the reigns. Collaros is more exciting to watch, and can stretch the field better, no doubt about that. But they are both elite QBs who could both win the cup for us. And Collaros is still potentially one concussion away from being an ex-elite QB.

I still would prefer Collaros but given his roots in the east, Toronto?s open plan to snag him, and the fact that we have Nichols under contract... chances are we?ll have Nichols next year.
Nichols isn't 'under contract'. He'll be a FA just like Collaros and Streveler.

I'd also say that Nichols isn't an elite QB but Collaros played like one for 4 games this year.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: gobombersgo on November 25, 2019, 07:29:23 PM
Why would you assume that?  re-signing a player usually refers to doing it before they reach free agency...  Pinball has said they intend to have Collaros as their QB next year... I'm guessing that will depend on Collaros now...
I agree will TBurg, Bombers would owe the 1st rounder regardless of when Collaros was signed.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: jeremy q public on November 25, 2019, 07:54:52 PM
Nichols isn't 'under contract'. He'll be a FA just like Collaros and Streveler.

I'd also say that Nichols isn't an elite QB but Collaros played like one for 4 games this year.

Hmm. I was going off this article for his contract info.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/3downnation.com/2019/02/06/bombers-qb-matt-nichols-set-for-pay-increase-but-bombers-have-an-out/amp/

But it looks like that was wrong.

As for ?elite? obviously that?s a subjective title but I consider it a uniquely TBurg type of view that a QB with the highest efficiency rating of long term starters this year is not ?elite.? Bo Levi Mitchell himself said it would be ?insane? to not consider Nichols elite after coming into a struggling organization and leading us as a year after year competitor.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on November 25, 2019, 08:25:06 PM
If I am picking between Nichols or Collaris. It's Collaris all day. Just the way he moves in the pocket gives this team hope, and the chance to make soon big plays. The 1/2 punch of ZC8 and healthy Strv17 looks pretty good to me.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BlueInCgy on November 25, 2019, 08:33:18 PM
Yeah, I'd personally like Zach/Strev utilized in the same way they've been for the last four games.  Zach's a better QB than Matt, but the health question mark is still the big issue.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: trapper on November 25, 2019, 09:07:16 PM
Collaros did great but I don't know if he did much more than what Nichols brought to the table. Big difference is LaPo let Zach throw.

Both can be successful.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on November 25, 2019, 09:11:46 PM
Collaros did great but I don't know if he did much more than what Nichols brought to the table. Big difference is LaPo let Zach throw.

Both can be successful.

Really, coming from a Rider Fan. Did you not see ZC8 making plays with his legs that Nichols does not make. Nichols does not move well in the pocket.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: kkc60 on November 25, 2019, 09:13:22 PM
Zach definitely was more mobile and made more plays with his feet


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on November 25, 2019, 09:16:06 PM
Sign ZC8, trade Nichols to Ottawa or Toronto for a first round pic with the same conditions we have with ZC8??



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on November 25, 2019, 09:21:13 PM
Collaros did great but I don't know if he did much more than what Nichols brought to the table. Big difference is LaPo let Zach throw.

Both can be successful.

I think the big difference is Zach can throw. They didn't suddenly change the entire playbook when Collaros came in. He made the plays that Nichols wouldn't or couldn't.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on November 25, 2019, 09:21:23 PM
Hmm. I was going off this article for his contract info.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/3downnation.com/2019/02/06/bombers-qb-matt-nichols-set-for-pay-increase-but-bombers-have-an-out/amp/

But it looks like that was wrong.

As for ?elite? obviously that?s a subjective title but I consider it a uniquely TBurg type of view that a QB with the highest efficiency rating of long term starters this year is not ?elite.? Bo Levi Mitchell himself said it would be ?insane? to not consider Nichols elite after coming into a struggling organization and leading us as a year after year competitor.
You have to look at the competition. Collaros did it against Cgy, Cgy, Skn and Ham. Nichols did it against the bottom teams and Edmonton.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BlueInCgy on November 25, 2019, 09:23:14 PM
Zach definitely was more mobile and made more plays with his feet

That and he didn't panic and chuck it into the stands, he made something out of nothing most times.  And he did it with only one INT in three games, correct?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on November 25, 2019, 09:32:16 PM
That and he didn't panic and chuck it into the stands, he made something out of nothing most times.  And he did it with only one INT in three games, correct?

One INT in four games.

His mobility in the pocket is something I don't think I've ever seen from a Blue Bomber QB (I never saw Clements play). If four games is all we get, so be it, but don't look at his passing yardage and say Nichols could have done the same thing because it's completely disingenuous.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on November 25, 2019, 09:34:33 PM
You proudly spout out about the "character" of our team for the last six years, then you continually spread a strategy that goes completely against their MO.

We have a trade agreement in place, they'll stick to it, not work around it.

Honestly, I doubt this is even a concern anyway.

When this deal was made, did anyone see this as the result?  The key reason for this provision in the deal was that Pinball wants Collaros, and wanted to dis incentivize WPG from extending him...

Yeah, this is not in the spirit of the "way we do things", but if we want to compete, in some ways, we're going to have to start making our ways the ways other do things...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on November 25, 2019, 09:36:23 PM
OK, now that ZC has shown QB's around the league what can be done behind this oline, with these targets, with this OC... might Winnipeg become a much more interesting consideration for a FA?  If we can lock down some of these pieces, adn the staff, do we get the choice of the FA QB crowd finally?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on November 25, 2019, 09:39:23 PM
Collaros did great but I don't know if he did much more than what Nichols brought to the table. Big difference is LaPo let Zach throw.

Both can be successful.

Bit of an oversimplification, IMO. Collaros didn't really have to do more but the difference is he brings mobility in the pocket to the table, which helped extend more than a few plays during this playoff run. I'm still amazed how quickly Collaros was able to grasp the playbook and establish chemistry with his teammates, Adams and Lawler in particular.

QBing by committee is what it took to help this team win a long awaited championship, and #15, #17, and #8 all did their part in that.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Waffler on November 25, 2019, 09:42:22 PM
[quote author=blue_gold_84 link=topic=52365.msg1524627#msg1524627 date=1574721563

QBing by committee is what it took to help this team win a long awaited championship, and #15, #17, and #8 all did their part in that.
[/quote]

Absolutely! We don't make the playoffs without Nichols. Each did their part and was necessary. No turn overs is what LaPo wants and these guys got that done.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: gobombersgo on November 25, 2019, 09:49:54 PM
OK, now that ZC has shown QB's around the league what can be done behind this oline, with these targets, with this OC... might Winnipeg become a much more interesting consideration for a FA?  If we can lock down some of these pieces, adn the staff, do we get the choice of the FA QB crowd finally?
The team won't be able to re-sign players and then have the money to participate in bidding wars for FA QBs.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on November 25, 2019, 09:54:58 PM
What Zack brought/brings that Stev didn't/couldn't was calmness in the pocket and scheme recognition in pocket in where to go, and knowing the time he needed to let it develop on the field, without having to think/process....it was instinctive due to basically experience and reps/been there done that.....Strev is in his early years or forming this.

Diven another off-season..TC...And in-season seasoning....he will get there too


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on November 25, 2019, 09:55:20 PM
OK, now that ZC has shown QB's around the league what can be done behind this oline, with these targets, with this OC... might Winnipeg become a much more interesting consideration for a FA?  If we can lock down some of these pieces, adn the staff, do we get the choice of the FA QB crowd finally?

And I think we will be better next year. We had a lot of young Canadian's rotating in on our OL this year.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on November 25, 2019, 11:29:31 PM
I like Nichols but I worry about his recovery from injuring his throwing shoulder. I would make Collaros an offer. If he'd rather return to southern Ontario well you can't make him stay.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on November 25, 2019, 11:35:47 PM
Zach definitely was more mobile and made more plays with his feet
Not only is Zach more mobile but he has an arm and is accurate.   His football IQ is immense and he reads defenses well and gets the ball away very quickly.   The Cats blitzed and Zach was able to dump the ball off quickly.   His QB efficiency rating was over 105 which is pretty amazing considering he played in 4 successive pressure packed wins and was cool as ice back there.....I love this guy and coupled with Streveler's packages they are difficult to defend!   They had the Cats off balance the entire game!  


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on November 25, 2019, 11:39:01 PM
The team won't be able to re-sign players and then have the money to participate in bidding wars for FA QBs.

Does the bidding get easier when we are a destination?  Do other teams have to pay a premium now?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 26, 2019, 12:03:09 AM
The team won't be able to re-sign players and then have the money to participate in bidding wars for FA QBs.

Sadly there will be plenty of turnover this year, as there always is.  A lot of current Bomber players are going to be looking for increases in pay after excellent seasons, Walters will have to decide who he can afford to keep and who he will let go to F.A. to earn the money they deserve.  Willie probably wants and deserves more, same with other players coming off their first deals, I don't envy Walters task.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BigBomberFan on November 26, 2019, 12:28:19 AM
Collaros is better at going through his second and third reads, I think. Nichols sometimes had trouble with that, and the important thing to realize is that Collaros moved the ball well enough for us to get into field goal range, repeatedly. Some of Nichols' drives would stall (especially in the second half of games), and would leave us with a long field and would give the other team decent field position.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 26, 2019, 12:34:22 AM
Not only is Zach more mobile but he has an arm and is accurate.   His football IQ is immense and he reads defenses well and gets the ball away very quickly.   The Cats blitzed and Zach was able to dump the ball off quickly.   His QB efficiency rating was over 105 which is pretty amazing considering he played in 4 successive pressure packed wins and was cool as ice back there.....I love this guy and coupled with Streveler's packages they are difficult to defend!   They had the Cats off balance the entire game!  

I like Collaros a lot, but to believe he will still be playing in the league in 2-3 years is highly speculative.  Even behind the best O-line he is likely to be sacked and take hits consistently throughout the season and that isn't even considering the number of ***-hats that will purposely take aim at his skull.  The next serious concussion could be the trigger for him to choose retirement, if not for himself than at the behest of his family to protect his long-term health, which may already be beyond his control.

Nichols doesn't create the same electricity, but he is a smart QB who knows how to win and is a great fit on a solid team.  He could also suffer a long-term injury on any play, the difference is Nichols would probably recover, comeback and play another 5 years of football.  Can't really say the same for Zach.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: New_Earth_Mud on November 26, 2019, 01:04:09 AM
Im just enjoying we are the F....... Champs.


Holy S...   We wait 29 years for this and cant wait a day to bring this crap up?

Good grief.

Have some fun and enjoy what they won.   its f...... awesome


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: In Motion on November 26, 2019, 01:09:45 AM
I like all of our QBs.  This is a great problem to have. My preference would be Zac and Strev,
but Nicholls is a good QB too.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on November 26, 2019, 01:22:37 AM
What Zack brought/brings that Stev didn't/couldn't was calmness in the pocket and scheme recognition in pocket in where to go, and knowing the time he needed to let it develop on the field, without having to think/process....it was instinctive due to basically experience and reps/been there done that.....Strev is in his early years or forming this.

Diven another off-season..TC...And in-season seasoning....he will get there too

It's a nice thought/sentiment. But Collaros was already looking fairly calm in the pocket in 2012/13 at the same age/experience that Strev is now...



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 26, 2019, 01:26:40 AM
Im just enjoying we are the F....... Champs.


Holy S...   We wait 29 years for this and cant wait a day to bring this crap up?

Good grief.

Have some fun and enjoy what they won.   its f...... awesome
WE DID IT BUDDY!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: toolsinbox on November 26, 2019, 01:27:17 AM
I don't want Zach to go to TO.  The obvious rental factor is bad.  Keep him. And get Mazoli


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: dd on November 26, 2019, 01:34:05 AM
I knew this conversation was going to come up, and it?s understandable people are upset that we haven?t even had the parade and we re talking Qbs

The answer is stinking obvious, who?s the QBs they beat Calgary, Saskatchewan and the Ticats and won us the grey cup?? That?s the QB I want. I want the guy that wins and makes plays when nothing seems available vs throwing the ball into the stands

Enjoy the celebrations and parade and trust the guy who brought the guy here that won us the cup can resign him!! Cheers!!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 26, 2019, 03:33:54 AM
I don't want Zach to go to TO.  The obvious rental factor is bad.  Keep him. And get Mazoli
yep he?ll be gone. But he will never need to pay for a steak dinner here ever again!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on November 26, 2019, 05:07:35 AM
This is overstating the case. Nichols is also an elite QB. Let?s not forget that we were in first place with him at the reigns. Collaros is more exciting to watch, and can stretch the field better, no doubt about that. But they are both elite QBs who could both win the cup for us. And Collaros is still potentially one concussion away from being an ex-elite QB.

I still would prefer Collaros but given his roots in the east, Toronto?s open plan to snag him, and the fact that we have Nichols under contract... chances are we?ll have Nichols next year.

 Agree to disagree. In my eyes Nichols is an average starting QB. Average. Not elite.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Tiger on November 26, 2019, 05:18:05 AM
Can someone say with specificity what Nichols injury was, how did rehab go and how he is doing?  Without this information it is all just speculation .


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on November 26, 2019, 05:22:27 AM
I knew this conversation was going to come up, and it?s understandable people are upset that we haven?t even had the parade and we re talking Qbs

The answer is stinking obvious, who?s the QBs they beat Calgary, Saskatchewan and the Ticats and won us the grey cup?? That?s the QB I want. I want the guy that wins and makes plays when nothing seems available vs throwing the ball into the stands

Enjoy the celebrations and parade and trust the guy who brought the guy here that won us the cup can resign him!! Cheers!!

 Well put dd.
 Often the obvious gets lost in amongst the deep analysis. The guy walks in here, reels off 4 wins in a row with a new playbook and ends the drought. Calm, cool and cold blooded. Of course he is the guy we want. How about going back to back? That would be fun. Let Nichols take a walk. Any signing has an injury risk attached.

 Take a chance on a proven winner. ZC is now that. I hope we can find a way to keep him.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Ducky on November 26, 2019, 05:27:46 AM
Hard to argue about keeping the Collaros / Streveler combo...they just won a friggin Grey Cup  ;D.  Does Collaros want to stay out west?  Does Streveler want a shot as a starter (hard to imagine he will get that offer and he has a good role in Winnipeg as a rotational Qb).  Is Nichols going to be healthy AND willing to take a pay cut (doubtful).


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: In Motion on November 26, 2019, 05:34:40 AM
Does Collaros want to go to Toronto and get beat up in the backfield as happened to Riley in BC?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: gobombersgo on November 26, 2019, 08:39:04 AM
Can someone say with specificity what Nichols injury was, how did rehab go and how he is doing?  Without this information it is all just speculation .
It was an injury to his throwing shoulder that required surgery as it wasn't healing as quickly as they had hoped.

Nichols believes rehab is going well and is on track for him to be 100 percent by April.

He said he normally doesn't start throwing until April anyways so the injury shouldn't effect his off-season training.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on November 26, 2019, 01:16:21 PM
Sadly there will be plenty of turnover this year, as there always is.  A lot of current Bomber players are going to be looking for increases in pay after excellent seasons, Walters will have to decide who he can afford to keep and who he will let go to F.A. to earn the money they deserve.  Willie probably wants and deserves more, same with other players coming off their first deals, I don't envy Walters task.
Willie negotiates his own deals...no agent fees...has said before he just wants something fair, and be in a place he feels comfortable...I don't think it will be tough for us to Re-up him...I think retaining Hardrick and Bryant too will be a relative slam dunk..they may need a small bump, but not massive, as they are now at a point in ther career and in the market where their salaries are kinda at their max now. 3 key pieces to retain that I think are musts


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 26, 2019, 01:28:03 PM
I like Collaros a lot, but to believe he will still be playing in the league in 2-3 years is highly speculative.  Even behind the best O-line he is likely to be sacked and take hits consistently throughout the season and that isn't even considering the number of ***-hats that will purposely take aim at his skull.  The next serious concussion could be the trigger for him to choose retirement, if not for himself than at the behest of his family to protect his long-term health, which may already be beyond his control.

Nichols doesn't create the same electricity, but he is a smart QB who knows how to win and is a great fit on a solid team.  He could also suffer a long-term injury on any play, the difference is Nichols would probably recover, comeback and play another 5 years of football.  Can't really say the same for Zach.


Unfortunately I totally agree. Love Zach and will always remember his role in this years Grey Cup but sadly I don't believe it would be wise for us to put our eggs in his basket as a starter. If he wants to come back next year on a backup salary with big play time incentives I would gladly take him back as a 2 or even 1b QB. I just don't see that happening though.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 26, 2019, 01:30:20 PM
Can someone say with specificity what Nichols injury was, how did rehab go and how he is doing?  Without this information it is all just speculation .

During Grey Cup week Matty and Davis were talking about his injury. They said his injury is not one that should have lingering effects, however, they did say that he may not be ready for the beginning of next season because it is one that takes time to heal.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on November 26, 2019, 01:30:39 PM
Willie negotiates his own deals...no agent fees...has said before he just wants something fair, and be in a place he feels comfortable...I don't think it will be tough for us to Re-up him...I think retaining Hardrick and Bryant too will be a relative slam dunk..they may need a small bump, but not massive, as they are now at a point in ther career and in the market where their salaries are kinda at their max now. 3 key pieces to retain that I think are musts

Willie says that, but he's also one of the highest paid guys in the league. "Fair" is a relative term.

Half the team, if not more, is up for a new contract. Everyone will want a bump but for every raise in salary comes a decrease somewhere else.

OL is a must. Willie is a really key guy for us, but It's a big salary so I'm hoping we can swing it. Rose would be nice to get on at least a two-year deal...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on November 26, 2019, 01:31:58 PM
During Grey Cup week Matty and Davis were talking about his injury. They said his injury is not one that should have lingering effects, however, they did say that he may not be ready for the beginning of next season because it is one that takes time to heal.

I feel like when he does comes back, he's going to have some strength and fatigue issues early on.

We're definitely going to have to look at the QB position as a whole, not just who's the starter.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 26, 2019, 01:33:55 PM
Willie negotiates his own deals...no agent fees...has said before he just wants something fair, and be in a place he feels comfortable...I don't think it will be tough for us to Re-up him...I think retaining Hardrick and Bryant too will be a relative slam dunk..they may need a small bump, but not massive, as they are now at a point in ther career and in the market where their salaries are kinda at their max now. 3 key pieces to retain that I think are musts

I think Bryant and Yoshi are no brainers to return. As long as we offer them fair salary they are a slam dunk. Yosh especially has stated many times he has absolutely no desire to leave. Jefferson was gushing all season about how much he loves it here. Again, a competitive offer and I think he will be back. I think the Bombers will find a way to dig out a few extra bucks for him.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Ridermania on November 26, 2019, 02:00:50 PM
Sign ZC8, trade Nichols to Ottawa or Toronto for a first round pic with the same conditions we have with ZC8??

Why would any team trade for Nichols when he will be a free agent in February?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on November 26, 2019, 02:32:30 PM
If your Ottawa or Toronto and you really want a Matt Nichols type of QB, do you want to wait until FA.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on November 26, 2019, 02:43:22 PM
If your Ottawa or Toronto and you really want a Matt Nichols type of QB, do you want to wait until FA.
Nichols isn't an elite QB that you trade for to make sure you get him, especially when you consider the throwing shoulder injury.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on November 26, 2019, 02:44:52 PM
Nichols isn't an elite QB that you trade for to make sure you get him, especially when you consider the throwing shoulder injury.

He is if the hurt of a 3 or 4 win season is fresh your mind. We would have traded nearly anything from a proven commodity like Nichols is now when he had Goltz, Hall or any of those other QBs in the black hole years. And rightfully so. If Collaros was worth a third and a potential first rounder not having played the entire year, Nichols is worth at least as much if not more. Now he's not under contract, which works against us, but so long as he'd commit to signing with the team that trades for him he's worth the cost of a high pick.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on November 26, 2019, 03:01:10 PM
He is if the hurt of a 3 or 4 win season is fresh your mind. We would have traded nearly anything from a proven commodity like Nichols is now when he had Goltz, Hall or any of those other QBs in the black hole years. And rightfully so. If Collaros was worth a third and a potential first rounder not having played the entire year, Nichols is worth at least as much if not more. Now he's not under contract, which works against us, but so long as he'd commit to signing with the team that trades for him he's worth the cost of a high pick.
Ottawa and Toronto need a new QB this year and Winnipeg needs to sign a vet QB. Everyone else is set. Masoli, Collaros and Nichols are the 3 available vet guys. One to each team? I can't imagine a scenario where the Redblacks or Argos trade anything away for any of the 3 vets. I can't imagine any of the vet QB's signing for backup money either.

Arbuckle and Streveler are also available. If you're looking to go young and build from scratch they'd be good choices that cost less so you can put the extra money towards upgrading the rest of the team.

My personal choice, that the Bombers won't do, would be Arbuckle/Streveler as 1/1a. Less money. Highest upside. Least injury concerns.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on November 26, 2019, 03:13:54 PM
Nichols, Masoli, Collaris all have question marks around them. There is risk to each one of them. But I do Like Arbuckle, however I don't think MOS is going in that direction.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: kkc60 on November 26, 2019, 03:36:07 PM
I've finally seen the Bombers win in my lifetime. I couldn't care less what we do at QB right now.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on November 26, 2019, 03:36:43 PM
Willie says that, but he's also one of the highest paid guys in the league. "Fair" is a relative term.

Half the team, if not more, is up for a new contract. Everyone will want a bump but for every raise in salary comes a decrease somewhere else.

OL is a must. Willie is a really key guy for us, but It's a big salary so I'm hoping we can swing it. Rose would be nice to get on at least a two-year deal...
There are probably 3 or 4 guys paid more than him as defensive players in the league...let alone the high priced offensive guys..he signed here for a very good deal at right around 200k


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 26, 2019, 04:10:31 PM
There are probably 3 or 4 guys paid more than him as defensive players in the league...let alone the high priced offensive guys..he signed here for a very good deal at right around 200k

Willie J has consistently played at below market value and just wants a fair deal. Last year the Riders offered him 160k to re-sign and he bolted. I would too, that wasn't a fair offer at all. However, I think if Jones would have stuck around he would have taken it because Willie J, love him or hate him, is a pretty loyal guy unless you slap him in the face. If we give Willie a small bump he'll be back.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on November 26, 2019, 04:31:36 PM
Willy likes it here and understands that if one guy is over paid it hurts the rest of the team.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on November 26, 2019, 04:33:52 PM
He'll be back unless he get an NFL shot..but I think with age and how he went out last time that hios window is closed there

he said he he wanted to sign a one yr deal here..play it out..see how everything fits and if he feels comfortable here and if he liked it...I think all boxes were checked off for him and I would be shocked if he isn't back on a 2 year deal


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on November 26, 2019, 04:40:11 PM
I have been around for 8, probably remember 4 very well. People probably forget that the bombers had a 22 year drought between 1962 GC and 1984. So for me 29 years was big deal, but everything comes to an end.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on November 26, 2019, 04:42:45 PM
He'll be back unless he get an NFL shot..but I think with age and how he went out last time that hios window is closed there

he said he he wanted to sign a one yr deal here..play it out..see how everything fits and if he feels comfortable here and if he liked it...I think all boxes were checked off for him and I would be shocked if he isn't back on a 2 year deal
I think he will be back but likely with a bump up....the Cup next year is in Regina and I think he'd love to be back there again.   He does understand the Team concept MOS has instilled in the players and he was awesome for us.....I watched him at the Cup and he raised hell with their offence and has so much range on the field as well as forcing fumbles and strip sacks.   Jeffcoat and Jefferson were formidable on Sunday!  


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on November 26, 2019, 04:45:17 PM
I think he will be back but likely with a bump up....the Cup next year is in Regina and I think he'd love to be back there again.   He does understand the Team concept MOS has instilled in the players and he was awesome for us.....I watched him at the Cup and he raised hell with their offence and has so much range on the field as well as forcing fumbles and strip sacks.   Jeffcoat and Jefferson were formidable on Sunday!  
definitely will be getting a bump in pay..no question about that...but he seems like a guy who won't hold a team for ransom


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on November 26, 2019, 05:01:34 PM
I've finally seen the Bombers win in my lifetime. I couldn't care less what we do at QB right now.

 Let us hope that management does not have the same attitude. Build a championship tradition, not a one shot deal. No more lengthy droughts. Unfortunately, they may be content to rest on this for awhile. The great teams are always trying to get better.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: longtimeblue on November 26, 2019, 05:14:06 PM
Nichols isn't an elite QB that you trade for to make sure you get him, especially when you consider the throwing shoulder injury.

 I agree with this. With all the young, talented, dynamic backups that have stepped up this year, how many teams are looking for a Matt Nichols type of QB? I think the market is not big.

 I honestly think Strev would have more appeal than Nichols.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 26, 2019, 05:14:07 PM
He'll be back unless he get an NFL shot..but I think with age and how he went out last time that hios window is closed there

he said he he wanted to sign a one yr deal here..play it out..see how everything fits and if he feels comfortable here and if he liked it...I think all boxes were checked off for him and I would be shocked if he isn't back on a 2 year deal

Willie is only 28 so age is not a problem yet, I think if there is interest he will take another shot at the NFL, but if he doesn't make it he'll probably be happy to come back to Wpg.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BLUEBOMBER on November 26, 2019, 09:24:06 PM
Clearly we can win with both QBs.  It comes down to age and health.  Does Nichols have many more years to give or will he retire soon?  I think it also depends on where LaPolice ends up.  There is a high likelihood he becomes a HC somewhere.. BC is my bet.  When that happens, Pierce will most likely be promoted to OC.  May there be a spot for Nichols to be a QB coach and Collaros and Streveler to take the reins at QB? Many QBs retired early and becomes great coaches like Maas, Jones, Crandall to name a few.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 26, 2019, 09:36:10 PM
Callaros is as good as gone from here. This topic title is silly. It should be titled who are our QBs in 2020?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BlueInCgy on November 26, 2019, 09:42:58 PM
Clearly we can win with both QBs.  It comes down to age and health.  Does Nichols have many more years to give or will he retire soon?  I think it also depends on where LaPolice ends up.  There is a high likelihood he becomes a HC somewhere.. BC is my bet.  When that happens, Pierce will most likely be promoted to OC.  May there be a spot for Nichols to be a QB coach and Collaros and Streveler to take the reins at QB? Many QBs retired early and becomes great coaches like Maas, Jones, Crandall to name a few.
Pretty sure neither Maas, Jones, or Crandell were incumbent starters when they retired though.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on November 26, 2019, 09:46:59 PM
Collaris could be gone, but Nichols isn't the guy for us. After watching Collaris, bomber fans must realise that Matt does not move very well and can not buy himself time and make plays with his legs.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on November 26, 2019, 11:43:20 PM
According to Ted Wyman on twitter Willie Jefferson has made it clear that he wants to stay here. I wish knew how to send the link but basically he said that he's looking for a home and feels like this is home.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 26, 2019, 11:52:37 PM
According to Ted Wyman on twitter Willie Jefferson has made it clear that he wants to stay here. I wish knew how to send the link but basically he said that he's looking for a home and feels like this is home.


Regardless of the QB situation. Which I am sure will work out great! Willie needs to be signed up first. He has earned it. Pay the man.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on November 27, 2019, 12:05:57 AM
Totally agree. Besides who else is going to say "Come on down to Winnipeg"?  :D  :D


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 27, 2019, 12:09:55 AM
Totally agree. Besides who else is going to say "Come on down to Winnipeg"?  :D  :D
lol I have the shirt that quotes that and the smoke quote as well. Saying that he better be there!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on November 27, 2019, 02:15:22 AM
lol I have the shirt that quotes that and the smoke quote as well. Saying that he better be there!
Same here and I just bought mine last week.  :D


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: dd on November 27, 2019, 02:23:14 AM
That was no doubt the white of the here

How bout that smoke man, how bout that smoke. Cmon down to winnipeg man, cmon down to winnipeg . Pure gold!!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 27, 2019, 02:33:53 AM
Same here and I just bought mine last week.  :D
It was my lucky shirt for 3 playoff wins! Most cherished T I got now! I mean it looks like he?s ready to kill somebody on the T!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Nic16 on November 27, 2019, 02:36:09 AM
Doubt the Game Mgr will be willing to take much of a pay cut and the BB may not be willing to give up their 1st for Collaros...who was likely planning to go back to Toronto anyway.

Streveler didn?t show enough as a passer to attract a sizeable offer that would entice him to leave a good situation in Wpg. He re-signs a 2 yr show me bonus-laden contract.

After a bad year Ottawa will likely want a veteran starter, so I?m thinking they?ll be all in on Masoli.

That leaves Nichols & Arbuckle.

Taking the first 2 points into account and the GC win, I think the BB go after Arbuckle with a very attractive 2 yr bonus-laden contract.

Arbuckle, Strev & McGuire would give LaPo & Buck a very competitive QB competition. And the Grey Cup win buys them the time to figure out which one will lead the Bombers into the next decade.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 27, 2019, 02:42:02 AM
Doubt the Game Mgr will be willing to take much of a pay cut and the BB may not be willing to give up their 1st for Collaros...who was likely planning to go back to Toronto anyway.

Streveler didn?t show enough as a passer to attract a sizeable offer that would entice him to leave a good situation in Wpg. He re-signs a 2 yr show me bonus-laden contract.

After a bad year Ottawa will likely want a veteran starter, so I?m thinking they?ll be all in on Masoli.

That leaves Nichols & Arbuckle.

Taking the first 2 points into account and the GC win, I think the BB go after Arbuckle with a very attractive 2 yr bonus-laden contract.

Arbuckle, Strev & McGuire would give LaPo & Buck a very competitive QB competition. And the Grey Cup win buys them the time to figure out which one will lead the Bombers into the next decade.

I think it?s gonna be difficult to keep Lapo here next year. I can see him in Ottawa. Does Steveler go with him?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on November 27, 2019, 03:41:55 AM
I think it?s gonna be difficult to keep Lapo here next year. I can see him in Ottawa. Does Steveler go with him?
In the interviews that I've seen of Streveler he's says that this feels like home now. Of course I don't think that he's sober right now so...  ;D


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: gobombersgo on November 27, 2019, 04:49:24 AM
In the interviews that I've seen of Streveler he's says that this feels like home now. Of course I don't think that he's sober right now so...  ;D
Would it be a legal contract if Walters tried to sign him right now? Lol


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 27, 2019, 05:06:47 AM
Would it be a legal contract if Walters tried to sign him right now? Lol
Maybe Walters can pull a Taman paper napkin contract and get Strevy to sign it tonight lol


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: DM83 on November 27, 2019, 07:35:03 AM
I have never really wanted a Bomber jersey in my life, but I would get a Strev. Jersey.  Heart and souls, young and fun, and never accepts more than his best! Da!

I hope they sign him.  He's like Tim Teabow and Doug Flutie pachaed into one.
 Lapo you created/refined a monster


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 27, 2019, 10:50:35 AM
I have never really wanted a Bomber jersey in my life, but I would get a Strev. Jersey.  Heart and souls, young and fun, and never accepts more than his best! Da!

I hope they sign him.  He's like Tim Teabow and Doug Flutie pachaed into one.
 Lapo you created/refined a monster
I would like see Strevy back as well. I he can get better at throwing the ball more consistently.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 27, 2019, 12:31:31 PM
I would like see Strevy back as well. I he can get better at throwing the ball more consistently.

If the Bombers signed him back and said for the next couple years we will roll out the 2 QB system until Streveler gets really comfortable with his passing game I would be A-OK with that.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on November 27, 2019, 02:31:13 PM
If the Bombers signed him back and said for the next couple years we will roll out the 2 QB system until Streveler gets really comfortable with his passing game I would be A-OK with that.

Having Nichols back would be very complementary. Nichols provides the veteran presence, cerebral, better-passing and dare-I-say game management while Streveler does what Streveler does best and can learn from Matt. After a 2 year contract it is totally possible Nichols will retire or move on and Streveler will have grown into our QB1.

That's how I see this being played out, at least.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on November 27, 2019, 02:40:33 PM
I think it?s gonna be difficult to keep Lapo here next year. I can see him in Ottawa. Does Steveler go with him?
Streveler won't wanna go anywhere..start from scratch...and also no team is gonna offer him huge money yet to be a undisputed starter...he's not quite there yet...but he's close


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 27, 2019, 03:01:35 PM
Collaros played well especially having to learn a new play book. Is he a better option than Nichols? Maybe maybe not. Injury concerns about both need to be taken into account.

QB's get too much credit for winning and too much fault for losses.

Look at his stats starting with the Grey Cup. 170 yards passing 17/23 for 73.9%. We rushed 28 times for 182 yards and the defense created 8 turnovers.

The WSF was similar where we had monster rushing game. Collaros 11/21 for 193 yards 52.4%. We rushed 31 times for 197 yards.

Game plan, defense and our run game played a big part in our success.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on November 27, 2019, 03:11:42 PM
Collaros played well especially having to learn a new play book. Is he a better option than Nichols? Maybe maybe not. Injury concerns about both need to be taken into account.

QB's get too much credit for winning and too much fault for losses.

Look at his stats starting with the Grey Cup. 170 yards passing 17/23 for 73.9%. We rushed 28 times for 182 yards and the defense created 8 turnovers.

The WSF was similar where we had monster rushing game. Collaros 11/21 for 193 yards 52.4%. We rushed 31 times for 197 yards.

Game plan, defense and our run game played a big part in our success.

And those numbers all mirror games lead by Matt this year...

He can throw for yards if need be as well and it's in the game plan...just look at 2017..he had 6 games with totals over 300 yards...and 5 more that were 250+
People make it seem like he cant throw a ball and gain yards like they make it seem like Strev can't throw at all...they have been doing whats been asked of them this year


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Tehedra on November 27, 2019, 03:19:03 PM
I would love to see Nichols/Collaros, or Arbuckle/McGuire but I don't think we need to focus on resigning Streveler.  Streveler is exciting, and runs well, with a ton of heart.  However, I am not confident with him ever being a primary starter and we need to ensure we are always focusing on those who will be eventual starters


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on November 27, 2019, 03:25:18 PM
Collaros was outstanding considering he was still learning our playbook up until he won his 4th straight game.   I can't imagine how much better he would be after a full training camp!!   He paired well with Streveler and Hamilton's D was out of sync every time the exchange between the two QBs happened.   He does things with his legs that neither Nichols or Streveler can do well or at all regarding his mobility and ability to see pressure coming.   Were his stats overwhelming?  Not really but considering his efficiency rating over 4 pressure packed games still learning the playbook, he was nothing short of miraculous!   Yes he had a great team surrounding him but he made something out of nothing on more than one occasion where Nichols would have either been sacked or threw the rock out of bounds.   He is a real student of the game and a cool performer under pressure.    Of course his injuries are of concern however so are Nichols.   I truly believe that with Nichols as our starter in the last four pressure packed games,  we would still be cup-less.   Streveler as well, couldn't have made those throws despite him being 3 for 3 on Sunday.    They were a magnificent combination however and having the two of them play well was a contributing factor.   I also like Zachs demeanour and overall awareness because he doesn't lock on to just one receiver....he spread the ball around and we got some great yardage with his arm to help us get into FG range.   Collaros + Streveler = winning!  


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 27, 2019, 03:34:44 PM
And those numbers all mirror games lead by Matt this year...

He can throw for yards if need be as well and it's in the game plan...just look at 2017..he had 6 games with totals over 300 yards...and 5 more that were 250+
People make it seem like he cant throw a ball and gain yards like they make it seem like Strev can't throw at all...they have been doing whats been asked of them this year

I should have added how well the OL both run and pass blocked during the playoff run. Collaros is a little more elusive in the pocket than Nichols but don't sell Nichols short.

SMS and injury issues ( current and historical ) to Nichols, Collaros and Masoli will be interesting to see how they play out in free agency.

I probably lean towards Masoli for # 1 choice but IMO SMS is going to be a big factor. I'd also like Streveler back but would be interested in Arbuckle as well.

Not all of these QB's will reach free agency IMO.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 27, 2019, 03:44:59 PM
Collaros was pretty much a carbon copy of Matt Nichols. Collaros with a better ability to scramble and Nichols a little better at reading the D and getting the ball out of his hands. Both played within the confines of the Lapo system pretty much equally as well and both have demonstrated an ability to win games within that system by taking care of the rock.

It is complete nonsense to suggest that Collaros was far better than Nichols at QB. It's revisionist history perpetrated by those who have an axe to grind with Nichols.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 27, 2019, 03:49:05 PM
I think it?s gonna be difficult to keep Lapo here next year. I can see him in Ottawa. Does Steveler go with him?

I think there will be some big time competition for Lapo to beat out. I could see Condell being more desired than he is and I think that BC is almost a slam dunk to hire Campbell. Ottawa is the only destination at this time really and if media rumors in Ottawa are true they are very interested in Condell as it makes Masoli to Ottawa an almost slam dunk.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 27, 2019, 03:49:47 PM
Collaros was pretty much a carbon copy of Matt Nichols. Collaros with a better ability to scramble and Nichols a little better at reading the D and getting the ball out of his hands. Both played within the confines of the Lapo system pretty much equally as well and both have demonstrated an ability to win games within that system by taking care of the rock.

It is complete nonsense to suggest that Collaros was far better than Nichols at QB. It's revisionist history perpetrated by those who have an axe to grind with Nichols.

+ 1 and that's no knock on Collaros. He played close to error free.

The bigger picture was the dominant run game and how the defense rose to the task in the play offs.

We beat up the opponents physically and mentally on both sides of the ball.

The Grey Cup was a DECISIVE victory.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 27, 2019, 03:51:35 PM
+ 1 and that's no knock on Collaros. He played close to error free.

The bigger picture was the dominant run game and how the defense rose to the task in the play offs.

We beat up the opponents physically and mentally on both sides of the ball.

The Grey Cup was a DECISIVE victory.

For sure. Collaros did take more shots downfield but if people remember correctly Lapo had vastly increased our downfield passes with Nichols this year prior to his injury as well. People tend to forget that earlier this season we were the best 1st half team in the league and were nursing comfortable leads in almost every game in the 2nd half. That changed our offensive philosophy completely and we had no need to take chances down the field. Toronto and Montreal games were outliers.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on November 27, 2019, 04:04:47 PM
The # of jobs on CFL Active Rosters for qb's just went from 27 to 18... there are going to be QB's that will not get jobs this year.  The question, wit all the success of young QB's this year, will GM's move from higher priced veterans and take risks on younger, cheaper guys they can tie up longer? 

Who get fought over. Evans or Masoli?  Arbuckle or Collaros?  Nichols or Streveler? 

Will we see guys like Nichols and Collaros take a page from Tate's book, extend their careers by holding clipboards behind young guns?  Riley, Mitchell, Harris, Fajardo and Adams are not moving, so that leaves 4 openings for:  Nichols, Collaros, Masoli, Evans, Arbuckle... who will be odd man out? 

Depth QBs, for the backup role, we have Bridge, Bennett, Bethel-Thompson, Jennings, Harker, Franklin, Davis, Watford, Streveler, Shiltz, Prukop, Pipkin, OBrein, McGuire and Kilgore... plus any new recruits, vying for 9 jobs (plus the one starter than falls through)

Does this make it a buyers market?  Does a defending GC champ gain an advantage, especially if it maintains its coaching corps?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 27, 2019, 04:08:22 PM
The # of jobs on CFL Active Rosters for qb's just went from 27 to 18... there are going to be QB's that will not get jobs this year.  The question, wit all the success of young QB's this year, will GM's move from higher priced veterans and take risks on younger, cheaper guys they can tie up longer? 

Who get fought over. Evans or Masoli?  Arbuckle or Collaros?  Nichols or Streveler? 

Will we see guys like Nichols and Collaros take a page from Tate's book, extend their careers by holding clipboards behind young guns?  Riley, Mitchell, Harris, Fajardo and Adams are not moving, so that leaves 4 openings for:  Nichols, Collaros, Masoli, Evans, Arbuckle... who will be odd man out? 

Depth QBs, for the backup role, we have Bridge, Bennett, Bethel-Thompson, Jennings, Harker, Franklin, Davis, Watford, Streveler, Shiltz, Prukop, Pipkin, OBrein, McGuire and Kilgore... plus any new recruits, vying for 9 jobs (plus the one starter than falls through)

Does this make it a buyers market?  Does a defending GC champ gain an advantage, especially if it maintains its coaching corps?

QB on the 44 changed but every team will be carrying 3 QBs and one will be a scratch and instead of watching from the sidelines they will be watching from the booth. Nothing will change in regards to QB jobs except for game day rosters. There will be the same number of QBs under contract and earning game day cheques.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 27, 2019, 04:40:14 PM
QB on the 44 changed but every team will be carrying 3 QBs and one will be a scratch and instead of watching from the sidelines they will be watching from the booth. Nothing will change in regards to QB jobs except for game day rosters. There will be the same number of QBs under contract and earning game day cheques.

I'm still hopeful that the league reverses that decision. In theory a 3rd QB won't be a scratch on game day since technically there is no provision on the AR to have 3. He'd have to be placed on the 1 game IR after TC breaks and / or a rookie on the PR.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BlueInCgy on November 27, 2019, 04:43:09 PM
I'm still hopeful that the league reverses that decision. In theory a 3rd QB won't be a scratch on game day since technically there is no provision on the AR to have 3. He'd have to be placed on the 1 game IR after TC breaks and / or a rookie on the PR.

Agreed.  Considering every single starting QB in the league missed significant time this year due to injury (OK, maybe not OTT or TO, but to be fair, they didn't really have QBs to begin with), it seems somewhat counterintuitive to reduce it to two per team, and truthfully serves no benefit.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on November 27, 2019, 04:52:30 PM
QB on the 44 changed but every team will be carrying 3 QBs and one will be a scratch and instead of watching from the sidelines they will be watching from the booth. Nothing will change in regards to QB jobs except for game day rosters. There will be the same number of QBs under contract and earning game day cheques.

If they are on the roster, they won't be on it as a QB.  So they take an Int spot.  Or a Nat spot if you take Bridge or O'Connor... which begs the question, why have a QB designation at all.  Its not like there are SMS considerations, you can pay a QB as much or as little as any player.  The only reason for listing one as QB is to get 3 more Int players on the field... but it limits you as to how and when you can deploy them.  Which makes no sense, limiting your highest paid players.  

Why not declare 2 receivers as QB's and your QB's as receivers, meaning you can have 3 QBs on the field at any time, but not both those receivers.  Make Streveler a REC, doesn't affect his pay, you can pay him whatever you want, and hen he can be on the field whenever.  

Taking our present QBs as examples, Nichols and McGuire are your QB's, Streveler a WR.  In that scenario you can have Nichols and Streveler both on the field, and then direct snap to Harris...  or Adams...

I'm thinking the QB designation should be dumped and just converted to Int positions, unless they make a QB SMS exemption of some sort, maybe adding an ability to offer a non-SMS re-signing bonus, 10% for current players, 15% for players with 5 yrs service with that club.  

Better yet, adopt the NFL franchise player designation idea...



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on November 27, 2019, 04:54:21 PM
I'm still hopeful that the league reverses that decision. In theory a 3rd QB won't be a scratch on game day since technically there is no provision on the AR to have 3. He'd have to be placed on the 1 game IR after TC breaks and / or a rookie on the PR.
[/b]

Those rookies wouldn't be on the list I provided... I don't think anyone I named would fit on a PR, regardless... 

Might be moot, with the XFL2 coming... still don't know what kind of talent drain that will be on players... we've already seen it was significant from Front Office drain...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: jeremy q public on November 27, 2019, 04:59:29 PM
For sure. Collaros did take more shots downfield but if people remember correctly Lapo had vastly increased our downfield passes with Nichols this year prior to his injury as well. People tend to forget that earlier this season we were the best 1st half team in the league and were nursing comfortable leads in almost every game in the 2nd half. That changed our offensive philosophy completely and we had no need to take chances down the field. Toronto and Montreal games were outliers.

This is true, but Nichols flat out missed more of those downfield passes than Collaros did. His long ball accuracy is a weakness. I totally agree with you that they are comparable QBs, but Collaros is definitely better at two things 1) scrambling to make plays happen out of nothing, and 2) stretching the field with accurate deep balls.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 27, 2019, 05:03:14 PM
This is true, but Nichols flat out missed more of those downfield passes than Collaros did. His long ball accuracy is a weakness. I totally agree with you that they are comparable QBs, but Collaros is definitely better at two things 1) scrambling to make plays happen out of nothing, and 2) stretching the field with accurate deep balls.

Sure...and Nichols is better at reading a D and executing in the red zone.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: jeremy q public on November 27, 2019, 05:24:02 PM
He is if the hurt of a 3 or 4 win season is fresh your mind. We would have traded nearly anything from a proven commodity like Nichols is now when he had Goltz, Hall or any of those other QBs in the black hole years. And rightfully so. If Collaros was worth a third and a potential first rounder not having played the entire year, Nichols is worth at least as much if not more. Now he's not under contract, which works against us, but so long as he'd commit to signing with the team that trades for him he's worth the cost of a high pick.

+1


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: jeremy q public on November 27, 2019, 05:52:24 PM
Agree to disagree. In my eyes Nichols is an average starting QB. Average. Not elite.

You're free to hold this opinion, but it's objectively wrong, and what's more, depending on how you define "starting QB" it's not even close.

If you only count the 9 QBs who began the season as the designated starting QB, Nichols and Collaros hold the top two QB efficiency ratings. Being second out of nine is not average.

But this was a season of many starting QBs. There were 17 QBs who started 6 or more games this season. That's a third of the season. In this era, where QBs regularly get knocked out for the season, you could make the argument that there were at least 18 starting QBs. 17 QBs who started 6 or more games, and Collaros, who started the season but didn't play that many games.

Being second out of 18 isn't even close to average.

You can make the argument that QB efficiency rating isn't everything, and that's true, but it's by far the most qualitative measurement we have for how well a QB has performed, because it accounts for interceptions, and that's a big deal. Turnovers are a big factor in whether a team wins or loses, and no other stat accounts for it properly.

We could consider win/loss record, and that would be a far less accurate measurement of how well the QB performed, considering that it's a team game, but I'm pretty sure Nichols would still be in the top three or four (at least) of all of those QBs. He was 7-2.

As Bo Levi Mitchell said (and I'll keep repeating this quote as often as necessary), it would be insane to say that Nichols is not an elite QB in this league.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: jeremy q public on November 27, 2019, 06:10:11 PM
You have to look at the competition. Collaros did it against Cgy, Cgy, Skn and Ham. Nichols did it against the bottom teams and Edmonton.

You can always come up with some qualifier for why the #1 QB in the league isn't elite, but that doesn't make it less stupid. See my other comments just above, but for the record, Bo Levi's comment was made last year, so any lack of competition in Nichols' schedule this year is entirely irrelevant to his opinion on it.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 27, 2019, 06:11:12 PM
If they are on the roster, they won't be on it as a QB.  So they take an Int spot.  Or a Nat spot if you take Bridge or O'Connor... which begs the question, why have a QB designation at all.  Its not like there are SMS considerations, you can pay a QB as much or as little as any player.  The only reason for listing one as QB is to get 3 more Int players on the field... but it limits you as to how and when you can deploy them.  Which makes no sense, limiting your highest paid players.  

Why not declare 2 receivers as QB's and your QB's as receivers, meaning you can have 3 QBs on the field at any time, but not both those receivers.  Make Streveler a REC, doesn't affect his pay, you can pay him whatever you want, and hen he can be on the field whenever.  

Taking our present QBs as examples, Nichols and McGuire are your QB's, Streveler a WR.  In that scenario you can have Nichols and Streveler both on the field, and then direct snap to Harris...  or Adams...

I'm thinking the QB designation should be dumped and just converted to Int positions, unless they make a QB SMS exemption of some sort, maybe adding an ability to offer a non-SMS re-signing bonus, 10% for current players, 15% for players with 5 yrs service with that club.  

Better yet, adopt the NFL franchise player designation idea...



Dumbest thing I've heard today as long as there is a QB designation. At the moment you could list Streveler as a receiver but it would be at the expense of another import.

There is a QB designation so that teams don't list a ringer as a QB and let him play elsewhere as a regular.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: jeremy q public on November 27, 2019, 06:14:36 PM
Sure...and Nichols is better at reading a D and executing in the red zone.

I haven't observed this personally but I could definitely see it being the case. Any stats or supporting argument to back this up?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on November 27, 2019, 06:20:38 PM
Sure...and Nichols is better at reading a D and executing in the red zone.

I don't know if I agree with that sentiment. I think Collaros was the better QB of the two. He is absolutely more aggressive and at times was willing to throw the 50/50 ball and trust his guys. He was very accurate deep. If you think Nichols went through his reads a bit faster, I think you need to consider that Nichols has been in this offense for five seasons and Collaros had five weeks.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 27, 2019, 06:23:30 PM
I haven't observed this personally but I could definitely see it being the case. Any stats or supporting argument to back this up?

We were the highest scoring offense in 2017 and 2018. 2nd highest in 2019 but were in 1st before Nichols injury.

In 2018 he threw for more yardage, better completion % and a better TD to int ratio than Collaros.

That's pretty compelling.

Before Nichols we often struggled to score 20 points in a game. How soon we forget what we had in the past. He's not perfect but his win loss record is very good.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on November 29, 2019, 12:04:38 AM
I don't know if I agree with that sentiment. I think Collaros was the better QB of the two. He is absolutely more aggressive and at times was willing to throw the 50/50 ball and trust his guys. He was very accurate deep. If you think Nichols went through his reads a bit faster, I think you need to consider that Nichols has been in this offense for five seasons and Collaros had five weeks.

Four seasons, actually*. LaPolice joined this team in 2016, at which point Willy was the starter and ultimately lost it to Nichols during that season.

Collaros played four games for this team and did a really good job executing the playbook. His best trait was his ability to scramble and make plays with his feet, adding a nice wrinkle for opposing defenses to consider. By no means did his stats jump off the page or anything, though.

Regardless of sample size or tenure, Nichols has executed this offense very well far more often than not, which is backed up by the numbers over that period.

IMO, it's not necessarily reasonable to compare the two QBs but consider this (FWIW): during this 2019 campaign, Collaros posted a 105.7 QB rating in his four games played; Nichols, in his 9 games played, posted a QB rating of 107.2. While neither QB blew the doors off any opposing defense, both were highly efficient and smart with the ball.

* Bellefeuille was OC when Nichols was acquired in 2015


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In Edmonton on November 29, 2019, 12:31:17 AM
I thought that Collaros and Nichols played similarly. I think their stats bear that out. We may not have won the Grey Cup with Nichols, but we certainly wouldn't have won it without him this season.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Ridermania on November 29, 2019, 01:00:06 PM
Honestly can't see Walters giving up a 1st for Collaros.  

Is Streveler a $175K QB or higher?

How much are CFL teams going to tie up in 2 QB's next season...maybe $600K for the pair?

BC and Calgary have way too much tied up in QB SMS and can only afford a lower salary back-up.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on November 29, 2019, 01:31:33 PM
What did Fartado suck out of the Riders?...or was it published?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Ridermania on November 29, 2019, 01:42:40 PM
$400K and all I was trying to discuss is $600K for 2 QB's the new team normal?

I do realize that BC, Calgary and Edmonton are higher with current contracts.





Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 29, 2019, 02:05:11 PM
Honestly can't see Walters giving up a 1st for Collaros.  

Is Streveler a $175K QB or higher?

How much are CFL teams going to tie up in 2 QB's next season...maybe $600K for the pair?

BC and Calgary have way too much tied up in QB SMS and can only afford a lower salary back-up.

That's the magic question in play and we'll have to see how that plays out. Several teams have QB's that potentially will reach free agency. All of Winnipeg's and Toronto's. Masoli in Hamilton might hit free agency.

IMO regardless of which combination we choose it's going to cost us more. I'd like Streveler back and that's bound to add another $100K just for our # 2 QB.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Doublezero on November 29, 2019, 02:21:16 PM
Thanks to Matt Nichols for his contribution to the Blue Bombers over the past few seasons but with injuries etc reminds me of Lulay - too much uncertainty - it's time to move on.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on November 29, 2019, 02:35:16 PM
The slew of QBs available after this year of showcase is going to make this a buyer's market. We won't be having to pay more than 450k for a QB1.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 29, 2019, 02:37:44 PM
The slew of QBs available after this year of showcase is going to make this a buyer's market. We won't be having to pay more than 450k for a QB1.

I'm guessing that it won't work out that way. What will QB's in the XFL be earning?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on November 29, 2019, 02:47:18 PM
$400K and all I was trying to discuss is $600K for 2 QB's the new team normal?

I do realize that BC, Calgary and Edmonton are higher with current contracts.




I wasn't trying to be a doucher...was wondering as I hadn't heard...I would think a team would want/hope to ideally have QB's 1 and 2 coming in around there to not ruin your SMS elsewhere


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on November 29, 2019, 03:10:09 PM
Based on his performance in the Grey Cup game I'd go after Collaros.   He made at least 4 plays with his feet where he avoided being sacked and made plays for positive yards.   Matt would have either thrown the ball away or been sacked.   And you can't really compare stats between the two because all of Matt's numbers were from the first half of the season before the LDC.   Zachs stats were impressive considering the games were All pressure packed games where he threw one pick in 4 games.    He works well with Streveler in combination as well.   I think a first rounder is a steal to acquire a player with Zachs proven abilities to win the big games and if we can maintain the same core of players, we would once again be Cup contenders.   Yes he has a history of concussions and that is a risk however Matt's shoulder is a big concern as well.   
That being said, Zach will likely prefer TO over us simply because of family ties there......Pinball made it very clear when they traded him that he would take him back so we likely won't have to make that decision regardless.   


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 29, 2019, 03:51:27 PM
Based on his performance in the Grey Cup game I'd go after Collaros.   He made at least 4 plays with his feet where he avoided being sacked and made plays for positive yards.   Matt would have either thrown the ball away or been sacked.   And you can't really compare stats between the two because all of Matt's numbers were from the first half of the season before the LDC.   Zachs stats were impressive considering the games were All pressure packed games where he threw one pick in 4 games.    He works well with Streveler in combination as well.   I think a first rounder is a steal to acquire a player with Zachs proven abilities to win the big games and if we can maintain the same core of players, we would once again be Cup contenders.   Yes he has a history of concussions and that is a risk however Matt's shoulder is a big concern as well.   
That being said, Zach will likely prefer TO over us simply because of family ties there......Pinball made it very clear when they traded him that he would take him back so we likely won't have to make that decision regardless.  

While that's true it's a bit of cheery picking at well. Nichols may have made other plays that Collaros wouldn't have. Our OL pass and run blocked very well.

IMO they are very similar in effectiveness and style. The stats bear that out. Both have injury histories to consider.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on November 29, 2019, 04:04:57 PM
Like 10 check downs, or 5 throws into the bench.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 29, 2019, 04:45:01 PM
I don't know if I agree with that sentiment. I think Collaros was the better QB of the two. He is absolutely more aggressive and at times was willing to throw the 50/50 ball and trust his guys. He was very accurate deep. If you think Nichols went through his reads a bit faster, I think you need to consider that Nichols has been in this offense for five seasons and Collaros had five weeks.

How long they have played in the offence is irrelevant. Nichols does it better. We have no idea that if the offence were to slow down more for Collaros that he might just start making the same reads as Nichols and stop gun slinging.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 29, 2019, 04:46:24 PM
I'm guessing that it won't work out that way. What will QB's in the XFL be earning?

QB salary for the XFL is 250k. However, the XFL has stated they will not be pursuing any of our pending FA's this year at this time.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 29, 2019, 04:54:32 PM
The slew of QBs available after this year of showcase is going to make this a buyer's market. We won't be having to pay more than 450k for a QB1.

I agree. Fajardo set the market.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on November 29, 2019, 04:56:42 PM
he did kinda....I still think Riders way over payed for him too...one season does not a 400k salary earn...but hey its their money hahaha


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 29, 2019, 04:59:32 PM
Like 10 check downs, or 5 throws into the bench.

None of those are necessarily bad plays. You go where the read and the pressure tells you to go. I think the lay man fan doesn't understand that a check down is better than a sack or an interception, so is a throw to the 5th row. Peeves me when people get angry about that. The only time a check down is bad is if the QB has not gone through his progressions when he had the time to do so and it was not the primary read.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 29, 2019, 05:01:22 PM
he did kinda....I still think Riders way over payed for him too...one season does not a 400k salary earn...but hey its their money hahaha

They really didn't have a choice. No one is lining up to play in McAdon't's offence or Regina at all for that matter. As much as Rider fans like to brag they are a preferred destination, they have done their share of overpaying to get talent to move to that crap hole.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on November 29, 2019, 05:02:21 PM
yeah a check down is an after all else fails to develop....there are times it's a designed play, but thats when there are blocks set up for it or receivers clear out space


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 29, 2019, 05:07:34 PM
Like 10 check downs, or 5 throws into the bench.

We led the league in scoring in 2017 and 2018. We lead the league in scoring in 2019 before Nichols was hurt and we had a 7 - 2 win loss record.

Anthony Calvillo and R. Ray threw a bunch of check downs and 5 yard throws into the bench.

I give you they were more accurate long throw passers when opportunity arose but they were also not prolific runners either. OTOH Nichols has shown high completion %'s and QB efficiency for the past few seasons.

While he may not make as many of the long throws he plays into his strengths and does complete complete more than you appear to give him credit.

It was reported that Winnipeg was throwing more 20+ yard passes attempted than other teams but I can't find the completion %.  That said completion % is not always only on the QB. The receiver and defenses are part of the play as well.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 29, 2019, 05:08:06 PM
I just don't think that Collaros's gun slinging would have been sustainable over a whole season. He caught Calgary, Saskatchewan, and Hamilton off guard because our play calling had been so conservative and Lapo opened up the play book and took some extra chances in the playoffs. However, over the course of a season if we played that way defences would have started shutting us down on the long ball and let Andrew Harris try to beat us until he was worn out.

It was only because our small ball approach through most of the season was so effective that teams in the playoffs tried to make us beat them with the long ball and gave us the one on ones in coverage so they could take away the ground and short/intermediate routes.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on November 29, 2019, 05:08:27 PM
How long they have played in the offence is irrelevant. Nichols does it better. We have no idea that if the offence were to slow down more for Collaros that he might just start making the same reads as Nichols and stop gun slinging.
Zach has always been a gunslinger and if he were to make a TC with this offence he would be even better.   Plus Collaros is actually younger than Nichols.    His mobility created offensive plays that Nichols just can't accomplish because he's not very athletic in that regard.   Zach is 6 foot and 220 and throws the ball with greater velocity and accuracy.    I admit that Matt was doing well at the beginning of the season however after Labour Day things start tightening up defensively as games become more intense as we approach the playoffs.   Zach came here and practiced with the team twice before playing the Stamps and won that game with a display of scrambling we haven't seen in decades.   That pass to Adams in the end zone was pure magic and Nicholls would have thrown it away or been sacked.   In the Grey Cup game he deftly escaped the pressure and made plays that resulted in first downs.   This is a special skill set that Matt just doesn't have....and Zach can throw on the run.   Zach is also a very smart QB and makes his reads quickly and decisively.....when you stack up each player's pros and cons Zach comes out on top.    And don't get me wrong, I'm ok with Matt as our QB albeit his style of play isn't very exciting to watch.   What Zach did for this team was nothing short of miraculous and I'm not sure why some posters on this forum think his play was just OK???

As MOS said, the story of Zach Collaros and his 4 game run with the Bombers should be written down and told over and over again!  


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 29, 2019, 05:10:49 PM
I agree. Fajardo set the market.

I disagree. If the Lions cut Mike Reilly tomorrow you think he'll only get $400K? Masoli is going to get more than that.

It's very likely Nichols and Collaros might get more than that.

Fajardo was a 1st year starter and deserved a bump due to his play.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 29, 2019, 05:11:36 PM
Zach has always been a gunslinger and if he were to make a TC with this offence he would be even better.   Plus Collaros is actually younger than Nichols.    His mobility created offensive plays that Nichols just can't accomplish because he's not very athletic in that regard.   Zach is 6 foot and 220 and throws the ball with greater velocity and accuracy.    I admit that Matt was doing well at the beginning of the season however after Labour Day things start tightening up defensively as games become more intense as we approach the playoffs.   Zach came here and practiced with the team twice before playing the Stamps and won that game with a display of scrambling we haven't seen in decades.   That pass to Adams in the end zone was pure magic and Nicholls would have thrown it away or been sacked.   In the Grey Cup game he deftly escaped the pressure and made plays that resulted in first downs.   This is a special skill set that Matt just doesn't have....and Zach can throw on the run.   Zach is also a very smart QB and makes his reads quickly and decisively.....when you stack up each player's pros and cons Zach comes out on top.    And don't get me wrong, I'm ok with Matt as our QB albeit his style of play isn't very exciting to watch.   What Zach did for this team was nothing short of miraculous and I'm not sure why some posters on this forum think his play was just OK???

As MOS said, the story of Zach Collaros should be written down and told over and over again!  


He played great, but a big part of that was teams had very little film on him with us. They did not know what he would do. Over the course of the season DC's would figure him out and it wouldn't come as easy for him. We never got one on ones earlier in the season. ZC got them all day long in the WF and GC.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 29, 2019, 05:15:23 PM
I disagree. If the Lions cut Mike Reilly tomorrow you think he'll only get $400K? Masoli is going to get more than that.

It's very likely Nichols and Collaros might get more than that.

Fajardo was a 1st year starter and deserved a bump due to his play.

Fajardo, Nichols, Collaros, and Arbuckle are no Mike Reilly....and if you don't think that MR would take a big shave if he were released tomorrow you are kidding yourself. Every team got to watch the great 700-800k QB experiment unfold this season and they saw one team go from champs to chumps and the other miss the playoffs. No team will be paying a QB in that neighborhood for years to come now.

Last year Hervey and Huffer took a gamble that the CBA would bring in a bunch of extra SMS room. It didn't and now they have albatross QB contracts hanging around their necks.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on November 29, 2019, 05:20:09 PM
Fajardo, Nichols, Collaros, and Arbuckle are no Mike Reilly....and if you don't think that MR would take a big shave if he were released tomorrow you are kidding yourself. Every team got to watch the great 700-800k QB experiment unfold this season and they saw one team go from champs to chumps and the other miss the playoffs. No team will be paying a QB in that neighborhood for years to come now.

Last year Hervey and Huffer took a gamble that the CBA would bring in a bunch of extra SMS room. It didn't and now they have albatross QB contracts hanging around their necks.

Yup...I think they took a huge gamble on the SMS going up a substantial amount...Cgy was lucky they had an established team and staff...BC didn't



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on November 29, 2019, 05:22:38 PM
Yup...I think they took a huge gamble on the SMS going up a substantial amount...Cgy was lucky they had an established team and staff...BC didn't



For sure. Like every team in the CFL they were handicapped by not knowing what the SMS ceiling would be and by not being able to offer a big amount of salary immediately upfront. They felt the cap was going up and they were wrong.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on November 29, 2019, 05:24:39 PM
He played great, but a big part of that was teams had very little film on him with us. They did not know what he would do. Over the course of the season DC's would figure him out and it wouldn't come as easy for him. We never got one on ones earlier in the season. ZC got them all day long in the WF and GC.
Man....you are a hard case on the merits of Zach.   Film study doesn't negate Zach's scrambling ability or his superior arm strength.   The Cats had 3 games worth of film to study him plus he used to play for them not that long ago.   Part of his effectiveness was working in tandem with Strev who was magnificent and I think the combination of the two kept the Hamilton D on their heels.    That's a very winning combination as Strev made some great throws, ran the ball for several first downs and even caught a pass from Adams for a key first down.   His TD pass to Harris was also a thing of beauty.  

Of course Matt worked well with Streveler in the WSF last year but we were playing against Brandon Bridges and not Zach who had been injured.    In the final in Calgary last year Matt played poorly in the biggest game of the season and for whatever reason we didn't go to Streveler as much as against the Riders where he threw a beautiful pass for a TD and ran roughshod over them as well.  


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: lenny on November 29, 2019, 05:25:24 PM
Zach has always been a gunslinger and if he were to make a TC with this offence he would be even better.   Plus Collaros is actually younger than Nichols.    His mobility created offensive plays that Nichols just can't accomplish because he's not very athletic in that regard.   Zach is 6 foot and 220 and throws the ball with greater velocity and accuracy.    I admit that Matt was doing well at the beginning of the season however after Labour Day things start tightening up defensively as games become more intense as we approach the playoffs.   Zach came here and practiced with the team twice before playing the Stamps and won that game with a display of scrambling we haven't seen in decades.   That pass to Adams in the end zone was pure magic and Nicholls would have thrown it away or been sacked.   In the Grey Cup game he deftly escaped the pressure and made plays that resulted in first downs.   This is a special skill set that Matt just doesn't have....and Zach can throw on the run.   Zach is also a very smart QB and makes his reads quickly and decisively.....when you stack up each player's pros and cons Zach comes out on top.    And don't get me wrong, I'm ok with Matt as our QB albeit his style of play isn't very exciting to watch.   What Zach did for this team was nothing short of miraculous and I'm not sure why some posters on this forum think his play was just OK???

As MOS said, the story of Zach Collaros and his 4 game run with the Bombers should be written down and told over and over again!  


Agree 100%. I don't know how anyone can try to justify Nichols over Zach. Nichols was here since 2015 and he won one playoff game. We get Zach and not only does he win two playoff games in the short time here he helps win the biggest one of all the GC. That's three post-season victories. The Western final last year in Calgary by Nichols was another poor performance - 46.9% comp %, 156 yds no TDs.  Time to move on. I think Nichols is a capable QB but for many of the reasons articulated by you and others it's time to move on.

By the way, another thing to add on the offensive side of the game, is as you've noted his running and scrambling ability. They started the same time 2012, Zach's 966 yds rushing in 92 GP - Matt 617 in 114 GP. That's a significant 349 yd difference in favour of Zach in 22 games played less.

I hope Zach signs here but for many reasons I think the Argos are more than ever now convinced as to his effectiveness plus for Zach's own reasons (his wife a teacher in southern Ontario, etc.) I think he won't sign here.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on November 29, 2019, 05:28:12 PM
Agree 100%. I don't know how anyone can try to justify Nichols over Zach. Nichols was here since 2015 and he won one playoff game. We get Zach and not only does he win two playoff games in the short time here he helps win the biggest one of all the GC. That's three post-season victories. The Western final last year in Calgary by Nichols was another poor performance - 46.9% comp %, 156 yds no TDs.  Time to move on. I think Nichols is a capable QB but for many of the reasons articulated by you and others it's time to move on.


It's hard to advocate too hard for Collaros because he's even more of an injury risk than Nichols but no one will convince me that Collaros isn't the better of the two QBs. He is.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 29, 2019, 05:38:25 PM
Zach has always been a gunslinger and if he were to make a TC with this offence he would be even better.   Plus Collaros is actually younger than Nichols.    His mobility created offensive plays that Nichols just can't accomplish because he's not very athletic in that regard.   Zach is 6 foot and 220 and throws the ball with greater velocity and accuracy.    I admit that Matt was doing well at the beginning of the season however after Labour Day things start tightening up defensively as games become more intense as we approach the playoffs.   Zach came here and practiced with the team twice before playing the Stamps and won that game with a display of scrambling we haven't seen in decades.   That pass to Adams in the end zone was pure magic and Nicholls would have thrown it away or been sacked.   In the Grey Cup game he deftly escaped the pressure and made plays that resulted in first downs.   This is a special skill set that Matt just doesn't have....and Zach can throw on the run.   Zach is also a very smart QB and makes his reads quickly and decisively.....when you stack up each player's pros and cons Zach comes out on top.    And don't get me wrong, I'm ok with Matt as our QB albeit his style of play isn't very exciting to watch.   What Zach did for this team was nothing short of miraculous and I'm not sure why some posters on this forum think his play was just OK???

As MOS said, the story of Zach Collaros and his 4 game run with the Bombers should be written down and told over and over again!  


I don't think anybody is saying that but his stats are quite similar to Nichols. Posters complained when we threw for less than 200 yards.

1. WSF 11/21 52.4% 193 yards. 31 rush plays 195 yards
2. WDF. 17/25 68% 267 yards. 17 rush plays 68 yards
3. GC. 17/23 73.9% 170 yards. 28 rush plays 180 yards.

It may be that Collaros is a better QB overall. I think that's debatable. Perhaps look at his 2017 season in Hamilton and being unseated by Masoli. Look at his 2018 stats and play in Regina.

Collaros career games played in 8 seasons = 92,  62.78% completion 8/1 yard average.

Nichols career games played in 8 seasons = 114, 66.66% completion 7.7 yard average.

Comparing both, Nichols has played more games, thrown more passes, more completions, more yardage and has a higher completion % and a better TD / int ratio.

Collaros played a significant part in our Grey Cup run. He got up to speed and played well within our system. He made very few mistakes but he's not BLM or Mike Reilly either.

We'll never know whether we'd have won the Grey Cup if Nichols didn't get injured this season.

Let's be fair in the assessments and not get carried away because Collaros was at the helm in the Grey Cup. That was a complete team effort and he played his part.

OTOH we were within a last play hitting a goal post possibly going to OT in the WDF. Who knows how that would have turned out if it came to pass.

The QB always gets too much credit for a win and too much criticism for any loss.  That's a very narrow view.

If you choose to prefer Collaros I have no issue with that. Just consider that two of the best QB's in the CFL finished in 4th and 5th in the west. Team game.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on November 29, 2019, 05:39:08 PM
Agree 100%. I don't know how anyone can try to justify Nichols over Zach. Nichols was here since 2015 and he won one playoff game. We get Zach and not only does he win two playoff games in the short time here he helps win the biggest one of all the GC. That's three post-season victories. The Western final last year in Calgary by Nichols was another poor performance - 46.9% comp %, 156 yds no TDs.  Time to move on. I think Nichols is a capable QB but for many of the reasons articulated by you and others it's time to move on.

In the Calgary WF game Matt threw the ball away on numerous occasions causing a lot of 2 and 0s.....it was a dismal performance as was our offensive game plan.   At the start of the season Matt was hot and his long ball had improved big time and we were getting explosion plays.   Then the injury and shoulder surgery ended his promising season.    It's not that I don't think Matt's a good QB yet when you stack him up against Zach....he comes out second best of the two.   Should we go into the 2020 season with Matt, which is highly probable, I will support Matt.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 29, 2019, 05:40:20 PM
Fajardo, Nichols, Collaros, and Arbuckle are no Mike Reilly....and if you don't think that MR would take a big shave if he were released tomorrow you are kidding yourself. Every team got to watch the great 700-800k QB experiment unfold this season and they saw one team go from champs to chumps and the other miss the playoffs. No team will be paying a QB in that neighborhood for years to come now.

Last year Hervey and Huffer took a gamble that the CBA would bring in a bunch of extra SMS room. It didn't and now they have albatross QB contracts hanging around their necks.

The bar may no longer be $700K-$800K but I doubt it's $400K either. We'll see.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on November 29, 2019, 08:57:39 PM
The bar may no longer be $700K-$800K but I doubt it's $400K either. We'll see.

I just don't see why a team would pay big bucks for a QB when there are so many available.

BC: Reilly
CGY: BLM
EDM: T-Harr
SSK: CoFaj
WPG: ?
HAM: Evans
TOR: ? (I'm assuming all their QBs are FAs? Even if no, they are likely to shuffle the deck)
OTT: ? (same as above)
MTL: VAJ

Notable FAs:
Nichols
Streveler
Arcuckle
Masoli
Collaros
MBT
Franklin (assuming these last 2 are FAs/released by TO)

(note I didn't even include Dom Davis or Jennings...they are done)

Streveler, MBT and Franklin are almost certainly to be signed as backups somewhere, leaving four strarting-quality QBs in the market this year. We have three teams looking for starters. Why would any team throw out a high number for one of them? For example, if Ottawa offered Masoli 400k and he scoffed, they could just turn to Arcuckle. They all are not collectively going to hold out when they all want a job. What's the economic case for a big payday in QB FA period this off-season?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 29, 2019, 09:54:29 PM
I just don't see why a team would pay big bucks for a QB when there are so many available.

BC: Reilly
CGY: BLM
EDM: T-Harr
SSK: CoFaj
WPG: ?
HAM: Evans
TOR: ? (I'm assuming all their QBs are FAs? Even if no, they are likely to shuffle the deck)
OTT: ? (same as above)
MTL: VAJ

Notable FAs:
Nichols
Streveler
Arcuckle
Masoli
Collaros
MBT
Franklin (assuming these last 2 are FAs/released by TO)

(note I didn't even include Dom Davis or Jennings...they are done)

Streveler, MBT and Franklin are almost certainly to be signed as backups somewhere, leaving four strarting-quality QBs in the market this year. We have three teams looking for starters. Why would any team throw out a high number for one of them? For example, if Ottawa offered Masoli 400k and he scoffed, they could just turn to Arcuckle. They all are not collectively going to hold out when they all want a job. What's the economic case for a big payday in QB FA period this off-season?

The QB's you listed are not of equal skill level and then there are the injury concerns. Last year Reilly, Harris and BLM were free agents and could have signed anywhere. They all signed for big $$ and that created the problem. Two top QB's changed teams. You think money didn't speak loudly on final decisions?

How is that different now with Winnipeg, Toronto and Ottawa all needing a starter to sign? Each team will place a different perceived value to them of what those QB's are worth to them.

I'll be happy if we can get one of those 4 QB's for $400K.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on November 29, 2019, 10:44:51 PM
The QB's you listed are not of equal skill level and then there are the injury concerns. Last year Reilly, Harris and BLM were free agents and could have signed anywhere. They all signed for big $$ and that created the problem. Two top QB's changed teams. You think money didn't speak loudly on final decisions?

How is that different now with Winnipeg, Toronto and Ottawa all needing a starter to sign? Each team will place a different perceived value to them of what those QB's are worth to them.

I'll be happy if we can get one of those 4 QB's for $400K.

Actually, they kinda are, in the sense that none of them are proven, elite, top tier guys. Last year two of the best QBs the CFL has seen in a generation were FA and so literally any team, set at QB or not, would have opened their wallets for them. So BC and Calgary are bidding against the rest of the league here. Not the case this year.

The injury concerns, if anything, are actually the great equalizer between this year's crop of FA Qbs.

So, again, if Ottawa really wants e.g. Masoli and he thinks he's worth 550k and Ottawa would rather spend that money elsewhere, they can take any of the others for less for only a marginal drop off in play.

Unless all teams value one far more than the others, driving the price up, but I don't think that's the case at all. Throw in the lessons learned about blowing your load on a single position, too.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BigBomberFan on November 30, 2019, 12:07:32 AM
I just don't see why a team would pay big bucks for a QB when there are so many available.

BC: Reilly
CGY: BLM
EDM: T-Harr
SSK: CoFaj
WPG: ?
HAM: Evans
TOR: ? (I'm assuming all their QBs are FAs? Even if no, they are likely to shuffle the deck)
OTT: ? (same as above)
MTL: VAJ

Notable FAs:
Nichols
Streveler
Arcuckle
Masoli
Collaros
MBT
Franklin (assuming these last 2 are FAs/released by TO)

(note I didn't even include Dom Davis or Jennings...they are done)

Streveler, MBT and Franklin are almost certainly to be signed as backups somewhere, leaving four strarting-quality QBs in the market this year. We have three teams looking for starters. Why would any team throw out a high number for one of them? For example, if Ottawa offered Masoli 400k and he scoffed, they could just turn to Arcuckle. They all are not collectively going to hold out when they all want a job. What's the economic case for a big payday in QB FA period this off-season?

Some great points. And overspending--especially considering the amount of injuries at QB this season--seems to be a bad idea, but I guess it depends on how much certain teams want certain guys and then the bar gets set from there.

Pretty much all teams could agree though, that 700-800K on a QB in the CFL is a bad idea. BC just didn't have enough money left to sign a good enough team to put on the field around Reilly.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on November 30, 2019, 03:19:07 PM
I don't think anybody is saying that but his stats are quite similar to Nichols. Posters complained when we threw for less than 200 yards.

1. WSF 11/21 52.4% 193 yards. 31 rush plays 195 yards
2. WDF. 17/25 68% 267 yards. 17 rush plays 68 yards
3. GC. 17/23 73.9% 170 yards. 28 rush plays 180 yards.

It may be that Collaros is a better QB overall. I think that's debatable. Perhaps look at his 2017 season in Hamilton and being unseated by Masoli. Look at his 2018 stats and play in Regina.

Collaros career games played in 8 seasons = 92,  62.78% completion 8/1 yard average.

Nichols career games played in 8 seasons = 114, 66.66% completion 7.7 yard average.

Comparing both, Nichols has played more games, thrown more passes, more completions, more yardage and has a higher completion % and a better TD / int ratio.

Collaros played a significant part in our Grey Cup run. He got up to speed and played well within our system. He made very few mistakes but he's not BLM or Mike Reilly either.

We'll never know whether we'd have won the Grey Cup if Nichols didn't get injured this season.

Let's be fair in the assessments and not get carried away because Collaros was at the helm in the Grey Cup. That was a complete team effort and he played his part.

OTOH we were within a last play hitting a goal post possibly going to OT in the WDF. Who knows how that would have turned out if it came to pass.

The QB always gets too much credit for a win and too much criticism for any loss.  That's a very narrow view.

If you choose to prefer Collaros I have no issue with that. Just consider that two of the best QB's in the CFL finished in 4th and 5th in the west. Team game.

Exactly. It's a team game, especially come November. Let's be honest: elite level QBing and monster stats didn't win the Grey Cup.

Even when the numbers demonstrate the difference being negligible, the usual suspects gotta resort to the same tactics and feeble arguments. The cognitive dissonance in this thread is embarrassing.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BBRT on November 30, 2019, 03:24:40 PM
Exactly. It's a team game, especially come November. Let's be honest: elite level QBing and monster stats didn't win the Grey Cup.

Even when the numbers demonstrate the difference being negligible, the usual suspects gotta resort to the same tactics and feeble arguments. The cognitive dissonance in this thread is embarrassing.

" cognitive dissonance" ! Wow I had to look that one up! My degree was in finance where we abound in that aspect! :) - I have no idea which way the Bombers will go in 2020 and who will be available to lead the charge. Hopefully by end of Q1 2020 we will know!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: the paw on November 30, 2019, 03:44:55 PM
Exactly. It's a team game, especially come November. Let's be honest: elite level QBing and monster stats didn't win the Grey Cup.

Even when the numbers demonstrate the difference being negligible, the usual suspects gotta resort to the same tactics and feeble arguments. The cognitive dissonance in this thread is embarrassing.

I think the term elite gets way too much weight in these discussions.  If we agree, for sake of argument, that only BLM, Reilly and Harris are elite, there is a next tier of quality that we can call bona fide starters.

I would argue that you can't win cups or even compete on a sustained basis without a QB at this level.  Nichols, Collaros, Masoli have been at this level for several years.  Adams, Fajardo and Evans IMHO reached that level this year.

Streveler and Arbuckle haven't established themselves at this level, although Arbuckle looks good.  But Franklins falling value is testimony to the wisdom of a little caution with Arbuckle.  Bethel-Thompson is in the close-but-no-cigar category..

I think there are enough quality starters to go around, but once you factor in injury history, it gets trickier.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Cool Spot on November 30, 2019, 04:18:27 PM
One of the big risk factors for Nichols is his injury - his shoulder injury to his throwing arm. As a QB in a passing league, hurting your throwing arm is going to add a significant amount of risk.

Maybe I am misremembering, but Khari Jones back in the day suffered a shoulder injury, and while he was good when he came back, he was never quite at the same level as before he hurt that shoulder. While injury rehabilitation is different now than it was back then, going with Nichols should give the Bombers a moment of pause.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Ducky on November 30, 2019, 04:20:07 PM
Big unknown is which teams will pursue Streveler.  Got to think all teams noticed the impact he can make and ALL teams in the league need a #2 guy.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on November 30, 2019, 04:44:03 PM
Big unknown is which teams will pursue Streveler.  Got to think all teams noticed the impact he can make and ALL teams in the league need a #2 guy.
He constantly referred to Winnipeg as being his home now so unless the Bombers really make his a bad offer he stays!  I'd put $$ on it!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 30, 2019, 05:25:54 PM
One of the big risk factors for Nichols is his injury - his shoulder injury to his throwing arm. As a QB in a passing league, hurting your throwing arm is going to add a significant amount of risk.

Maybe I am misremembering, but Khari Jones back in the day suffered a shoulder injury, and while he was good when he came back, he was never quite at the same level as before he hurt that shoulder. While injury rehabilitation is different now than it was back then, going with Nichols should give the Bombers a moment of pause.

True enough but we only know he had an injury requiring surgery. We don't know how serious it will be long term. It may be a factor that the team needs to seriously assess with their doctors.

At the very least I'd be hesitant on a big up front early payment. Any possible contract needs to be based on games played. If Collaros is the one offered a contract something similar would need to be in place to mitigate risk.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on November 30, 2019, 05:28:54 PM
He constantly referred to Winnipeg as being his home now so unless the Bombers really make his a bad offer he stays!  I'd put $$ on it!

Winnipeg is the only team that runs that much. Streveler suits our game plan style with A. Harris, Demski etc.

Not every other team has the same quality of OL and starting RB to frustrate / confuse defenses.

I think Streveler would be less effective on most other teams that don't have those other factors in play.

That's not to suggest teams might not show interest but I'm guessing he stays in Winnipeg.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In Edmonton on November 30, 2019, 05:33:42 PM
I don't think that teams will look to spend a lot of money on someone else's backup QB to come in to be their backup QB. Teams are more likely to try to find their own Streveler if they're looking at running that kind of package.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on November 30, 2019, 06:42:24 PM
I think the term elite gets way too much weight in these discussions.

Perhaps. But elite level QBing is not a requirement to be a contender or a champion. This 2019 team got efficient, competent QBing, relying heavily on the run thanks to the best tailback in the CFL, a mostly elite level defense (but especially elite for the majority of the three playoff games), and strong ST play.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on November 30, 2019, 07:19:31 PM
One of the big risk factors for Nichols is his injury - his shoulder injury to his throwing arm. As a QB in a passing league, hurting your throwing arm is going to add a significant amount of risk.

Maybe I am misremembering, but Khari Jones back in the day suffered a shoulder injury, and while he was good when he came back, he was never quite at the same level as before he hurt that shoulder. While injury rehabilitation is different now than it was back then, going with Nichols should give the Bombers a moment of pause.

It doesn't sound like it is a career ender, how many pitchers get Tommy John surgery, in their pitching arm... and come back better?  This will be a year off for Nichols to heal all over, not just the arm.  If he rehabs well, not sure there is any reason to question his ability to continue, and lots of reason to be optomistic that he excels.

Collaros seems to have benefitted from his time off to recuperate...



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on November 30, 2019, 07:26:23 PM
At the family day event today I said to Strev we want you back! And he said so do I. I?d like him back but not as our starter out of the shoot.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: dd on November 30, 2019, 08:59:35 PM
I don't think anybody is saying that but his stats are quite similar to Nichols. Posters complained when we threw for less than 200 yards.

1. WSF 11/21 52.4% 193 yards. 31 rush plays 195 yards
2. WDF. 17/25 68% 267 yards. 17 rush plays 68 yards
3. GC. 17/23 73.9% 170 yards. 28 rush plays 180 yards.

It may be that Collaros is a better QB overall. I think that's debatable. Perhaps look at his 2017 season in Hamilton and being unseated by Masoli. Look at his 2018 stats and play in Regina.

Collaros career games played in 8 seasons = 92,  62.78% completion 8/1 yard average.

Nichols career games played in 8 seasons = 114, 66.66% completion 7.7 yard average.

Comparing both, Nichols has played more games, thrown more passes, more completions, more yardage and has a higher completion % and a better TD / int ratio.

Collaros played a significant part in our Grey Cup run. He got up to speed and played well within our system. He made very few mistakes but he's not BLM or Mike Reilly either.

We'll never know whether we'd have won the Grey Cup if Nichols didn't get injured this season.

Let's be fair in the assessments and not get carried away because Collaros was at the helm in the Grey Cup. That was a complete team effort and he played his part.

OTOH we were within a last play hitting a goal post possibly going to OT in the WDF. Who knows how that would have turned out if it came to pass.

The QB always gets too much credit for a win and too much criticism for any loss.  That's a very narrow view.

If you choose to prefer Collaros I have no issue with that. Just consider that two of the best QB's in the CFL finished in 4th and 5th in the west. Team game.
Here s the only stay real Ent

Grey cup wins as a starter

Collaros 1
Nichols 0, appearances 0
Masoli 0, appearances 0


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: In Motion on December 01, 2019, 01:34:59 PM
I love Collaros' scrambling ability and accurate long ball throws. Does he want to stay here though?

I love Streveler and think we need to keep him.

I like Nicholls a fair bit too, and think we can win another Cup with him as our #1 too.

Football players have short careers, and I don't blame them if they go for the money over loyalty
to the club or city. They haven't been Bomber fans all their lives as we've been.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 02, 2019, 09:48:10 AM
I've read all the posts and just want to add what I think is the solution to the Nichols vs Collaros debate:

Nichols and Collaros (2019 Collaros) are extremely similar QBs.  That is why you could virtually plug and play either into Lapo's O and the end result would be very similar.  The dream team of WPG QBs in 2020 would be Nichols/Collaros/Strev, if only Ambrosie would ditch the 2 QB idea.  Sure, it would never happen because of SMS, but it would be ideal because you could lose Nichols or Collaros and continue on like nothing happened.

I've watched a ton of ball with Nichols, and have watched every Zach game (in any jersey color), and studied Zach's 4 WPG games, and I'd agree Zach has the edge.  But that edge is extremely slight.  It's so slight that I truly believe Nichols would have won this GC had he never been Lemonized.  And I'm a huge, huge Nichols fan, so to admit Zach is better is difficult.  The solution to the debate is to realize there's not really a "clearly better" QB, it's to admit they are more similar than different.

Here's the thing, though: the award of "most likely to not make it through the season" definitely goes to Zach.  No one worried about Nichols getting a season-ender at all this year, or last.  Yet every time Zach stepped on the field since 2017, every CFL fan in Canada wondered if that was the day Zach's career would be ended.

That risk is what tips the balance in favor of signing Nichols/Strev for 2020 and letting Zach pursue other opportunities.  I love Zach for what he did for us, am eternally grateful, and apologize profusely for my pre-season comments regarding the durability of his brain and therefore his fitness as a player.  Even though I was right (on his 3rd snap of the 1st game), it's easy to forget these guys are human, and mostly just normal dudes who put their health on the line for our entertainment.  (Even if they wear green.)

Now, if Zach desperately wants to be a Bomber in 2020, he has earned the right to be considered, and maybe everyone works something out where everyone is happy.  If we can only keep one, and Zach doesn't want to go, I would let Zach have it, even though I love and would prefer Nichols.  You don't just shrug off what Zach did for us this year.  (As for the 1st round pick, it doesn't even enter into it, who cares one iota: we are stacked at NAT OL and NAT WR.)  But I think everyone agrees that Zach was always here as a rental, to have fun, maybe win a cup and vastly increase his market appeal.  As such it's virtually guaranteed Zach moves on by choice.

Heck, if Zach goes East and Nichols goes down again in 2020, we can always call up his new GM and arrange another rental trade for another GC run!  :D

Finally, what do I think Zach does better than Nichols?  Slightly better deep ball accuracy, modestly better deep ball consistency, more willing to let it fly deep when he sees favorable coverage, slightly faster read and release on deep coverage, slightly better arm strength, much better escapability and mobile throwing, general coolness and looseness, more fearlessness, and a bit better pocket presence.

What's a wash between the two?  Rushing: Collaros may have better legs, but he should really never rush again for his brain's sake.  Over a (future) season I'd expect their rushing stats to be nearly identical.

Nichols strengths?  Much better short game, bit better mid game, quicker on the 3-5th reads (yes I really believe this), more conservative and will definitely throw less INTs over a season, has more fire and hunger, and, finally, he's basically married to Lapo, MOS and thus all three are nearly always on the same page.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TrueBlue75 on December 02, 2019, 12:04:59 PM
I would be very surprised if the Bombers sign Collaros. Collaros and Nichols are relatively similar with Collaros getting the edge with his accuracy and escapability. Both would likely get a similar contract but with Collaros the cost is much higher due to the first round draft pick that the Bombers would have to give up. Therefore, in my opinion, Nichols will be our starter next season with Strevy as backup with an increased role.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BigBomberFan on December 02, 2019, 11:29:34 PM
I would be very surprised if the Bombers sign Collaros. Collaros and Nichols are relatively similar with Collaros getting the edge with his accuracy and escapability. Both would likely get a similar contract but with Collaros the cost is much higher due to the first round draft pick that the Bombers would have to give up. Therefore, in my opinion, Nichols will be our starter next season with Strevy as backup with an increased role.

I would tend to agree. In the past week, I thought about Collaros' likelihood of re-signing with us, and something really stood out to me......in the parade when he was in the truck instead of celebrating, it kind of was saying that he didn't want anyone to get too attached. Maybe he just doesn't like the limelight of celebrations, but it was something that I thought was.... interesting after a GC win. Nichols and Streveler being next to each other on the truck, to me, said that it's their team.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Ridermania on December 03, 2019, 12:09:51 AM
I know Streveler stated he wants to stay in Winnipeg, but how much does it depend where Lapo ends up?

Not all OC may utilize him like Lapo did.

Hope it all works out and make sure you get your Grey Cup gear for Christmas!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue72 on December 03, 2019, 04:29:36 AM
If I was a defensive coach I would rather play against Nichols. During a game he uses Harris the most and only two receivers for a game, some guys don't even touch the ball the whole game. His 3-5 yard passes move the ball but very boring and the running back doesn't make it thru the full year. Also likes to throw the ball into the benches rather then looking for that 3-4 receiver. He seems to play like I don't want to be hit. At times it takes him one full quarter to get started and when behind hard to come back.

With Collaros, he uses "ALL" the receivers during the game and you never know if it will be a long or short throw, run play or he leaves  the pocket. I never once heard him say that a receiver was not open because he would go to another receiver.

Nichols likes to be in for the whole game but will he except a 2 QB system or if he is having a bad game will MOS pull him?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 03, 2019, 04:41:37 AM
Man....you are a hard case on the merits of Zach.   Film study doesn't negate Zach's scrambling ability or his superior arm strength.   The Cats had 3 games worth of film to study him plus he used to play for them not that long ago.   Part of his effectiveness was working in tandem with Strev who was magnificent and I think the combination of the two kept the Hamilton D on their heels.    That's a very winning combination as Strev made some great throws, ran the ball for several first downs and even caught a pass from Adams for a key first down.   His TD pass to Harris was also a thing of beauty.  

Of course Matt worked well with Streveler in the WSF last year but we were playing against Brandon Bridges and not Zach who had been injured.    In the final in Calgary last year Matt played poorly in the biggest game of the season and for whatever reason we didn't go to Streveler as much as against the Riders where he threw a beautiful pass for a TD and ran roughshod over them as well.  

Actually I'm not a hard case on the merits of Zach's play at all. I simply believe that his concussion history cannot be ignored.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 03, 2019, 05:19:32 AM
Actually I'm not a hard case on the merits of Zach's play at all. I simply believe that his concussion history cannot be ignored.

It's a real risk, if Collaros was knocked out early in the season for any length of time, there is a good chance the Bombers wouldn't even make the playoffs in a tough West division with Streveler QBng the team.  I don't think Walters can ignore that possible scenario and I don't think he is naive enough to think that Strev. is ready to pick up the slack.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on December 03, 2019, 06:16:36 AM
It's a real risk, if Collaros was knocked out early in the season for any length of time, there is a good chance the Bombers wouldn't even make the playoffs in a tough West division with Streveler QBng the team.  I don't think Walters can ignore that possible scenario and I don't think he is naive enough to think that Strev. is ready to pick up the slack.
thats also a possibility with Nichols.....it's going to be a crap shoot with this two QB crap system.    Not sure why the league is hell bent on nutting themselves given how many QBs went down this last season?!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 03, 2019, 01:21:00 PM
I know Streveler stated he wants to stay in Winnipeg, but how much does it depend where Lapo ends up?

Not all OC may utilize him like Lapo did.

Hope it all works out and make sure you get your Grey Cup gear for Christmas!
It's not anything to do with Lapo..it's the culture...environment...his teamates...everything...If anything deep down he probably would love to see Lapo move on so his nuts can be released out of the vice and he can play more wide open


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 03, 2019, 01:30:34 PM
The QB1 debate is pretty null if you ask me. Two capable QBs with similar styles and both oft-injured. IMO, of the two of Nichols and Collaros, ZC has the edge in overall skill and ability but has a more serious injury history/risk. Throw that in with the Toronto home factor for ZC and the Winnipeg home factor for MN and it becomes more clear that Nichols will be our QB1 next year.

What we can take from this is, we need to have Streveler back to complement what MN (or ZC) bring and step in during injury or hard times.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 03, 2019, 01:47:57 PM
thats also a possibility with Nichols.....it's going to be a crap shoot with this two QB crap system.    Not sure why the league is hell bent on nutting themselves given how many QBs went down this last season?!

When Nichols is medically cleared he has a far stronger chance of staying healthy than Collaros. FAR stronger. Collaros next concussion, and he will get one because they become very easy to sustain after a few of them, will be a pretty much automatic season ender or even career ender. To equate this as being on the same level as a muscle injury is not an apt or even remotely similar comparison. The chance of ZC making it through a season as a starter is so remote that no GM worth a snot should ever consider it.

If ZC wants to re-sign here as a backup, at backup money, I would gladly take him. Otherwise, and it is sad, we cannot roll the dice on a guy with that concussion history.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 03, 2019, 01:49:32 PM
The QB1 debate is pretty null if you ask me. Two capable QBs with similar styles and both oft-injured. IMO, of the two of Nichols and Collaros, ZC has the edge in overall skill and ability but has a more serious injury history/risk. Throw that in with the Toronto home factor for ZC and the Winnipeg home factor for MN and it becomes more clear that Nichols will be our QB next year.

What we can take from this is, we need to have Streveler back to complement what MN (or ZC bring) and step in during injury or hard times.

I wonder how much more effective MN could have been had we used Strev in the same role as we did through the playoffs. Just saying...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on December 03, 2019, 01:50:53 PM
It's not anything to do with Lapo..it's the culture...environment...his teamates...everything...If anything deep down he probably would love to see Lapo move on so his nuts can be released out of the vice and he can play more wide open

Bingo. It sounds like he wants to stay here and has no interest in testing free agency: https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/streveler-has-no-interest-in-testing-free-agency (https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/streveler-has-no-interest-in-testing-free-agency)

Quote
"I've had conversations with multiple people in the building and told them how much I love being here, how much I love playing for this staff," Streveler said, Monday. "And the locker-room, the culture we have is something I love being a part of. I told everyone that I would love to be back here next year."

Great news for the team. And it says a lot about this organization and how far it's come under this regime.

I wonder how much more effective MN could have been had we used Strev in the same role as we did through the playoffs. Just saying...

This. I couldn't agree more.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on December 03, 2019, 01:51:19 PM
When Nichols is medically cleared he has a far stronger chance of staying healthy than Collaros. FAR stronger. Collaros next concussion, and he will get one because they become very easy to sustain after a few of them, will be a pretty much automatic season ender or even career ender. To equate this as being on the same level as a muscle injury is not an apt or even remotely similar comparison. The chance of ZC making it through a season as a starter is so remote that no GM worth a snot should ever consider it.

If ZC wants to re-sign here as a backup, at backup money, I would gladly take him. Otherwise, and it is sad, we cannot roll the dice on a guy with that concussion history.
Ok Winnipeg'r... Neither Nichols nor Collaros is signing for backup money.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 03, 2019, 01:52:29 PM
Ok Winnipeg'r... Neither Nichols nor Collaros is signing for backup money.

I know that. Just stating the only circumstance in which I would re-sign Collaros.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 03, 2019, 01:57:30 PM
I wonder how much more effective MN could have been had we used Strev in the same role as we did through the playoffs. Just saying...

Precisely what I'm getting at.

Next year should be a 1-2 punch just like it was in the playoffs. Not only does it get Streveler's unique skillset more involved, but it makes MN/ZC better players.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 03, 2019, 02:02:49 PM
Precisely what I'm getting at.

Next year should be a 1-2 punch just like it was in the playoffs. Not only does it get Streveler's unique skillset more involved, but it makes MN/ZC better players.

There is no doubt that 2 out of 3 teams had extreme difficulty containing our 2 headed QB system.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 03, 2019, 02:47:51 PM
Precisely what I'm getting at.

Next year should be a 1-2 punch just like it was in the playoffs. Not only does it get Streveler's unique skillset more involved, but it makes MN/ZC better players.

No kidding. As his passing skills develop it becomes even more dangerous for defenses to game plan against.

IMO he needs some work on his throwing mechanics but he wouldn't be the 1st QB with an odd throwing motion to become a good passer. Playing more also builds confidence but he seemed to be brimming with that as the season progresses.

I want him back, without a doubt regardless of who ends up as # 1.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 03, 2019, 02:50:51 PM
Interesting point... we are talking about the injury risk in Collaros, that Nichols is a safer bet, even though Nichols is coming off a season ending injury, and Collaros a Grey Cup...

Just sayin...

 


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on December 03, 2019, 02:55:40 PM
Interesting point... we are talking about the injury risk in Collaros, that Nichols is a safer bet, even though Nichols is coming off a season ending injury, and Collaros a Grey Cup...

Just sayin... 

As far as injury history and durability go, both carry substantial risk going forward. Concussion issues are serious, as is an throwing shoulder injury.

Winning a championship is irrelevant in that regard. It's a gamble with either QB.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: The Zipp on December 03, 2019, 02:58:57 PM
As far as injury history and durability go, both carry substantial risk going forward. Concussion issues are serious, as is an throwing shoulder injury.

Winning a championship is irrelevant in that regard. It's a gamble with either QB.

100% true.   The challenge with ZC is that one hard slap or elbow to his head will have him miss a month or more based on his history. 

Love the guy and regardless of what anyone says he is a better passer than MN and overall the best QB of the three.    Darn concussions and risk


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 03, 2019, 03:07:33 PM
100% true.   The challenge with ZC is that one hard slap or elbow to his head will have him miss a month or more based on his history. 

Love the guy and regardless of what anyone says he is a better passer than MN and overall the best QB of the three.    Darn concussions and risk

If it weren't for these issues he has developed, quite possible he would have just completed his 6th season with the Ti-Cats and maybe had a cup or two with them.

He was truly the QB I wanted going into 2014. So, so badly. I suppose in the end we got the last laugh, though.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In Edmonton on December 03, 2019, 03:17:04 PM
Interesting point... we are talking about the injury risk in Collaros, that Nichols is a safer bet, even though Nichols is coming off a season ending injury, and Collaros a Grey Cup...

Just sayin...

 

And if Nichols injures his shoulder on the 3rd play of the season and Collaros is severely concussed during a game in mid-August, the scenario today for each of those guys is entirely different.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 03, 2019, 03:17:58 PM
From my experience and what i now with shoulder injury..the fact that Matt wasn't pinned down and immobilized for at least 6-8 weeks post surgery leads me to believe it wasn't a super serious injury/surgery...season ender sure...but not career altering/threatening, so pretty sure he will be just fine prior to TC

We got what we needed out of Zack..but were super..SUPER lucky he didn't get concussed. His chances of getting concussed again are super high...won't go away with time off and will happen again, and could be from a minor hit too...and the recovery each time will get longer..and longer...please stay away from him as he will not be worth the risk

Matt and Strev will give us the same production as Collaros and Strev...and I actually think that the overall production would/will be higher with Matt and Strev...Matt and Zack will get it done in different ways and you may get frustrated with a throw away..or eating a sack, but it's much better than a scramble and an ill advised throw or fumble resulting in a turnover..and Zack will do that...fumble and give up picks...history has shown that

Also we can most likely get Matt and Strev cheaper than Strev/Zack..Or Strev/Masolli and that helps our bottom line keeping guys like Jefferson..Bryant..Rose..etc


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on December 03, 2019, 03:23:05 PM
100% true.   The challenge with ZC is that one hard slap or elbow to his head will have him miss a month or more based on his history. 

Love the guy and regardless of what anyone says he is a better passer than MN and overall the best QB of the three.    Darn concussions and risk
I do acknowledge the fact that Collaros is at higher risk of having his career ended with one more head shot.....similar to Buck who had issues when he signed with us and then sustained even more damage behind a not very good O Line.   Nichols age and injury problems, albeit not concussion related are also a factor to consider and we won't know for certain how his throwing arm will be affected by surgery.   At this point that is still a big question mark.

The other big question mark is LaPo and if he stays Nichols fits right into his offence as would Zach.    There are many unanswered questions at this point and we can all speculate till the cows come home.    If Nichols shoulder injury doesn't impede his abilities as a passer I will concede that he is less of a risk factor moving forward.   However we won't fully know exactly how well Nichols recovery will be until training camp.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 03, 2019, 03:26:45 PM
age wise they are basically a saw off...1 yr difference...and one with no concussion history


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 03, 2019, 04:35:07 PM
100% true.   The challenge with ZC is that one hard slap or elbow to his head will have him miss a month or more based on his history. 

Love the guy and regardless of what anyone says he is a better passer than MN and overall the best QB of the three.    Darn concussions and risk

Exactly. I would be screaming from the roof tops for us to re-sign him if not for all those pesky concussions.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 03, 2019, 04:36:33 PM
If it weren't for these issues he has developed, quite possible he would have just completed his 6th season with the Ti-Cats and maybe had a cup or two with them.

He was truly the QB I wanted going into 2014. So, so badly. I suppose in the end we got the last laugh, though.

I ranted for about two months about how Walters screwed up by not getting Collaros. I wanted the man fired for that. So I agree with your post entirely.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 03, 2019, 04:38:46 PM
As far as injury history and durability go, both carry substantial risk going forward. Concussion issues are serious, as is an throwing shoulder injury.

Winning a championship is irrelevant in that regard. It's a gamble with either QB.

One risk is FAR more substantial than the other. FAR more.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 03, 2019, 04:50:44 PM
I ranted for about two months about how Walters screwed up by not getting Collaros. I wanted the man fired for that. So I agree with your post entirely.

Interesting thought, if Collaros had originally signed here rather than Hamilton, would he have had a healthier career?  Would he have been protected better, and had more opportunity with Lapo calling plays and Harris doing the heavy lifting?  The injuries out QB's have suffered don't seem to be ones that Collaros might have been likely to have suffered, with his style of play... 

His link to southern Ontario would also have changed, Fantuz introduced him to his now wife... had he come here, he's be married off to a nice Winnipeg girl...

Had we signed Collaros instead of Willy, how would the fates of Zach and the WFC have changed?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 03, 2019, 05:47:02 PM
Interesting thought, if Collaros had originally signed here rather than Hamilton, would he have had a healthier career?  Would he have been protected better, and had more opportunity with Lapo calling plays and Harris doing the heavy lifting?  The injuries out QB's have suffered don't seem to be ones that Collaros might have been likely to have suffered, with his style of play... 

His link to southern Ontario would also have changed, Fantuz introduced him to his now wife... had he come here, he's be married off to a nice Winnipeg girl...

Had we signed Collaros instead of Willy, how would the fates of Zach and the WFC have changed?

Don't forget that aside from Willy probably not having the "it" factor to become a top shelf QB, one of the main reasons his career aspirations were killed is because we had zero Oline back in '14. In fact, we have speculated on this board before about how Drew may have turned out had we had the 2016 Oline to start here back in 2014, and if he would have turned out any better.

Good chance with that POS OL, ZC would have had his head taken off still.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BLUEBOMBER on December 03, 2019, 06:15:32 PM
Let's keep both of these guys.  The CFL is a two QB league and unfortunately I think Streveler will not be a top tier QB in terms of passing ability. 


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 03, 2019, 06:20:41 PM
Interesting thought, if Collaros had originally signed here rather than Hamilton, would he have had a healthier career?  Would he have been protected better, and had more opportunity with Lapo calling plays and Harris doing the heavy lifting?  The injuries out QB's have suffered don't seem to be ones that Collaros might have been likely to have suffered, with his style of play... 

His link to southern Ontario would also have changed, Fantuz introduced him to his now wife... had he come here, he's be married off to a nice Winnipeg girl...

Had we signed Collaros instead of Willy, how would the fates of Zach and the WFC have changed?

I honestly believe that if we signed Collaros in 2014 we would have been GC champs within a couple years. However, we will never know for sure.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 03, 2019, 06:21:54 PM
Let's keep both of these guys.  The CFL is a two QB league and unfortunately I think Streveler will not be a top tier QB in terms of passing ability. 

Interesting thought, but I doubt Collaros is interested in backup money.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 03, 2019, 06:32:10 PM
Don't forget that aside from Willy probably not having the "it" factor to become a top shelf QB, one of the main reasons his career aspirations were killed is because we had zero Oline back in '14. In fact, we have speculated on this board before about how Drew may have turned out had we had the 2016 Oline to start here back in 2014, and if he would have turned out any better.

Good chance with that POS OL, ZC would have had his head taken off still.

Very true, here are some names that played on the 2014 O-line.
   
GREAVES, Christopher
JANUARY, Glenn   
KNAPP, Dan
MORLEY, Steven
NEUFELD, Patrick
GOOSSEN, Matthias   
HOWARD, Cordaro

2015
BRYANT, Stanley
CHUNGH, Sukh
DANIELS, Jace
GOOSSEN, Matthias
GREAVES, Christopher
PICARD, Dominic
NEUFELD, Patrick
CAPERS, Selvish

2016
BRYANT, Stanley
CHUNGH, Sukh
GOOSSEN, Matthias
HARDRICK, Jermarcus
NEUFELD, Patrick
BOND, Travis


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: rubanski on December 03, 2019, 06:51:48 PM
Ok Winnipeg'r... Neither Nichols nor Collaros is signing for backup money.

I don't think Nichols will be able to get the same kind of money he got paid last year though. Or at least it's going to be incentive laden.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: rubanski on December 03, 2019, 06:57:27 PM
Very true, here are some names that played on the 2014 O-line.
   
GREAVES, Christopher
JANUARY, Glenn   
KNAPP, Dan
MORLEY, Steven
NEUFELD, Patrick
GOOSSEN, Matthias   
HOWARD, Cordaro

2015
BRYANT, Stanley
CHUNGH, Sukh
DANIELS, Jace
GOOSSEN, Matthias
GREAVES, Christopher
PICARD, Dominic
NEUFELD, Patrick
CAPERS, Selvish

2016
BRYANT, Stanley
CHUNGH, Sukh
GOOSSEN, Matthias
HARDRICK, Jermarcus
NEUFELD, Patrick
BOND, Travis

Oh man, Dan Knapp was like 250 lbs soaking wet.


Willy was much better than anyone we had prior to him, but Nichols has never been MOP material. This team was POOF instantly better with Nichols at the helm when he took over.

O-line aside, Willy was always a lot more James Franklin/Dom Davis/Jon Jennings material than he was legit starting QB material.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 03, 2019, 07:06:53 PM
I don't think Nichols will be able to get the same kind of money he got paid last year though. Or at least it's going to be incentive laden.

He'll get the same money he got last year imo. It all, of course, depends on who signs and when.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 03, 2019, 07:21:10 PM
I am a little worried about Matt's arm strength. Depending on what the injury was, he could come back with a dead arm. Lulay comes to mind and was never the same.

However on the flip side, he could come back with a stronger arm as he will be forced to build up strength in his throwing shoulder and arm.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 03, 2019, 07:23:06 PM
Nichols will get..and has earned..and does deserve somewhere between 425-485k..and pretty sure thats where he will slot in...either here or in Ottawa...the only 2 options for him, but I think Ottawa will go real hard at Arbuckle and both Dinnwiddie and Killiam as OC and HC respectively. Killiam has a lot of upside..lots of respect in the league and he is a major part of their Canadian drafting/scouting and development success in CGY...Has been for years

I think it's reasonable and practical and most likely to have Matt and Strev here..both on a decent base, but with incentive for performance Matt Running in Around 450k..strev at 200k Base totalling 650k combined with incentive to bring it to 750k if one..or both reach their bonuses


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 03, 2019, 08:06:53 PM
Nichols will get..and has earned..and does deserve somewhere between 425-485k..and pretty sure thats where he will slot in...either here or in Ottawa...the only 2 options for him, but I think Ottawa will go real hard at Arbuckle and both Dinnwiddie and Killiam as OC and HC respectively. Killiam has a lot of upside..lots of respect in the league and he is a major part of their Canadian drafting/scouting and development success in CGY...Has been for years


I don't think there's any reason to believe Mark Kilam will be a better HC than Claybrooks was, DeVone sort of shattered the myth that the Stamps are a magical organization, he wasn't and may never be ready for a HC position again.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 03, 2019, 08:21:25 PM
I don't think there's any reason to believe Mark Kilam will be a better HC than Claybrooks was, DeVone sort of shattered the myth that the Stamps are a magical organization, he wasn't and may never be ready for a HC position again.


kILAM has been coaching longer, I believe this year was his 15th  and has been involved in more things than Claybrooks ever was...apples to oranges in comparison


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on December 03, 2019, 08:59:23 PM
I don't think there's any reason to believe Mark Kilam will be a better HC than Claybrooks was, DeVone sort of shattered the myth that the Stamps are a magical organization, he wasn't and may never be ready for a HC position again.

He didn't shatter anything. He's an excellent defensive coach who was thrown under the bus by an egotistical maniac after all of one year as a HC, basically being the fall guy for another person's mistakes, which was mismanaging a roster.

Hervey canning him was about as greasy as it gets.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on December 03, 2019, 09:24:44 PM
The Bombers have to decide who has less risk of a season ending injury. Nichols with his shoulder or Collaros with his concussions. Either way sign Streveler. And if LaPo moves on I think that Buck becomes the OC and we run basically the same offence.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 03, 2019, 09:31:45 PM
The Bombers have to decide who has less risk of a season ending injury. Nichols with his shoulder or Collaros with his concussions. Either way sign Streveler. And if LaPo moves on I think that Buck becomes the OC and we run basically the same offence.

I think Buck takes over too...but He is gonna want to create his own thing and signature offence and he will be more aggressive and take some swings for the home run more than lapo...and I am 150% for that, and would elevate or QB play if you ask me..also lessen the burden and wear and tear on Harris

Buck's make-up and DNA won't allow for him to be passive and play it safe...he will coach like he played...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: ichabod_crane on December 04, 2019, 12:30:38 AM
100% true.   The challenge with ZC is that one hard slap or elbow to his head will have him miss a month or more based on his history. 

Love the guy and regardless of what anyone says he is a better passer than MN and overall the best QB of the three.    Darn concussions and risk

Then again he could be like Sidney Crosby and not suffer another concussion for what now, like 10 years? I know many people thought Sid might have to retire early because of his injury/concussion issues many year ago. Never know when some clown might clobber you in the head though, but true for any player.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 04, 2019, 01:46:09 AM
Then again he could be like Sidney Crosby and not suffer another concussion for what now, like 10 years? I know many people thought Sid might have to retire early because of his injury/concussion issues many year ago. Never know when some clown might clobber you in the head though, but true for any player.

As long as this deranged ****** is allowed to play in the CFL Zach is in danger.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUuwjkhNqaCv39flYedPCsfgASYDB5GC1HAw8C4JaJouaAno1f&s)


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on December 04, 2019, 02:32:05 AM
As long as this deranged ****** is allowed to play in the CFL Zach is in danger.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUuwjkhNqaCv39flYedPCsfgASYDB5GC1HAw8C4JaJouaAno1f&s)
Man, I dislike this disrespecting, trash talking, low balling cheap shot artist SOB!!   I loved it when Harris steer wrestled him to the turf and put him on his back MMA style.   He got up and started whining to the official but he didn't bite....


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on December 04, 2019, 02:48:43 AM
Man, I dislike this disrespecting, trash talking, low balling cheap shot artist SOB!!   I loved it when Harris steer wrestled him to the turf and put him on his back MMA style.   He got up and started whining to the official but he didn't bite....
LOL yup I?ll be watching that one all winter long. :)


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 04, 2019, 05:44:46 AM
Man, I dislike this disrespecting, trash talking, low balling cheap shot artist SOB!!   I loved it when Harris steer wrestled him to the turf and put him on his back MMA style.   He got up and started whining to the official but he didn't bite....

Or when Adams offered him a crying towel and he jumped like he'd been hit with a cattle prod...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on December 04, 2019, 06:41:45 AM
Or when Adams offered him a crying towel and he jumped like he'd been hit with a cattle prod...
;) :D :)


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 04, 2019, 08:02:11 AM
I don't think there's any reason to believe Mark Kilam will be a better HC than Claybrooks was, DeVone sort of shattered the myth that the Stamps are a magical organization, he wasn't and may never be ready for a HC position again.

Oh no, quite the opposite!  Claybrooks proved CGY is a magical organization!  But it did prove that the magic pixie dust disappears as soon as you leave CGY.

Nearly everyone said Claybrooks was the best DC when in CGY (not me, I knew it was just the pixie dust).  Now all those same people think Claybrooks is hot garbage; or at best would be a good DC (not HC) somewhere.  I think crooked-hat-man would be a mediocre DC anywhere, or he could crawl back to CGY and be a league-leader again.  It's that pixie dust, man.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 04, 2019, 11:32:17 AM
If by pixie dust you mean SMS circumvention then I agree. Jones and Murphy took lots of heat in Sask for cheating...that was just a smidge of what they learned in Calgary.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on December 04, 2019, 02:21:24 PM
Claybrooks is an excellent DC. It's not pixie dust. He was in over his head trying to make the transition from DC to HC. It happens to lots of coordinators. We've got 2 ex HC's on our staff who are way better coordinators than they are HC's.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 04, 2019, 03:09:18 PM
I am not sure about The Pixie Dust, lol. However I always felt that Claybrooks was dealt a bad hand, and he wasn't ready to lead a rebuild. However I think as a DC, he is as good as any of the DC's in the CFL.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 04, 2019, 03:21:49 PM
Claybrooks is an excellent DC. It's not pixie dust. He was in over his head trying to make the transition from DC to HC. It happens to lots of coordinators. We've got 2 ex HC's on our staff who are way better coordinators than they are HC's.

Very true. I do think that Calgary cheated for a great portion of the last 15 or so years but Claybrooks is a very good DC. HC...not so much. The two jobs are night and day though.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In Edmonton on December 04, 2019, 03:36:30 PM
There's a lot of factors at play. Hervey handed Claybrooks a pretty lousy hand, but told him that he had the best card in the deck. Maybe, just maybe Mike Reilly isn't as great as his hype would have everyone believe. He's missed the playoffs in consecutive years. In the last four years, a team quarterbacked by Matt Nichols has finished higher in the standings than a team with Mike Reilly. Personally, I'm glad our debate is Nichols or Collaros. I'd take either of those guys. (I'd also take Claybrooks as DC if Hall retires)


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 04, 2019, 03:42:34 PM
There's a lot of factors at play. Hervey handed Claybrooks a pretty lousy hand, but told him that he had the best card in the deck. Maybe, just maybe Mike Reilly isn't as great as his hype would have everyone believe. He's missed the playoffs in consecutive years. In the last four years, a team quarterbacked by Matt Nichols has finished higher in the standings than a team with Mike Reilly. Personally, I'm glad our debate is Nichols or Collaros. I'd take either of those guys. (I'd also take Claybrooks as DC if Hall retires)

Mike Reilly has played on teams with lousy defences and this year an atrocious OL for the past couple of years. QBs can win you championships but only if there is a decent team around them.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In Edmonton on December 04, 2019, 03:50:32 PM
Mike Reilly has played on teams with lousy defences and this year an atrocious OL for the past couple of years. QBs can win you championships but only if there is a decent team around them.

As I said, lots of factors.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on December 04, 2019, 03:51:59 PM
There's a lot of factors at play. Hervey handed Claybrooks a pretty lousy hand, but told him that he had the best card in the deck. Maybe, just maybe Mike Reilly isn't as great as his hype would have everyone believe. He's missed the playoffs in consecutive years. In the last four years, a team quarterbacked by Matt Nichols has finished higher in the standings than a team with Mike Reilly. Personally, I'm glad our debate is Nichols or Collaros. I'd take either of those guys. (I'd also take Claybrooks as DC if Hall retires)

I'd take Reilly on the Bombers in a heartbeat. Could you imagine what he'd be able to do with Harris and the O-line here? It's his exorbitant salary that's the problem, as Hervey's no doubt learned. You can't build a well balanced roster with that kind of money on the books.

The 2018 Eskimos and the 2019 Lions missed the playoff in spite of him and his production. He's posted passer ratings of 99.2 and 96.0 over the last two seasons, indicating he's more than done his part. He's just not getting the help around, which speaks to an overall team issue more than anything. Mike Reilly has the numbers and the accolades to back up his worth as a pivot in this league.

I agree on Claybrooks being given a crap hand. One year is not enough time to assess HC ability, IMO. He's one hell of a defensive coach and I'd welcome him here if Hall were to retire.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 04, 2019, 04:39:40 PM
I'd take Reilly on the Bombers in a heartbeat. Could you imagine what he'd be able to do with Harris and the O-line here? It's his exorbitant salary that's the problem, as Hervey's no doubt learned. You can't build a well balanced roster with that kind of money on the books.

The 2018 Eskimos and the 2019 Lions missed the playoff in spite of him and his production. He's posted passer ratings of 99.2 and 96.0 over the last two seasons, indicating he's more than done his part. He's just not getting the help around, which speaks to an overall team issue more than anything. Mike Reilly has the numbers and the accolades to back up his worth as a pivot in this league.

I agree on Claybrooks being given a crap hand. One year is not enough time to assess HC ability, IMO. He's one hell of a defensive coach and I'd welcome him here if Hall were to retire.

Nobody forced that hand on Claybrooks, he applied for and accepted the Lion's HC job presumably on his own belief he was ready to step up and lead a team, he probably should have realized his "easy-going style" wasn't going to cut it as a HC beforehand.

Here is a summary of Hevery's explanation for his firing.  Hard to disagree.


"We failed as a team," he said. "We failed on the field, we failed off the field. It's our job to make sure we fix it."

Two factors weighed heavily in deciding Claybrooks fate.

On the marketing side, the Lions would have trouble selling tickets next year if Claybrooks was still on the sideline wearing his hat at a slightly twisted angle.

"We have to look at the organization as a whole," said Hervey. "There's a business to this as well. If we're not winning everything else becomes part of it."

On the football side, Hervey was frustrated by a lack of structure in the Lions dressing room. Claybrooks is a big man, with a big personality who maybe didn't always enforce discipline and hold players accountable.

"Structure is extremely important," said Hervey. "Accountability is high on my list of priorities and a level of discipline must be there."

As a CFL veteran, Hervey said "it doesn't take long for players to take advantage if a coach doesn't apply the rules. If there is no consequence for a player being one minute late for a meeting today, he may be three minutes late the next day and bring a cell phone into the room with him."

"It's how the players respond to the coach," said Hervey. "It's how the players respond to the environment and the culture being set."

"You start to realize there were things there that needed to be looked at. Here we are today with the decision made."

When Claybrooks spoke to the media Monday during the Lions dressing room cleanout he acknowledged some situations might have been handled better.

"You can?t let any detail go, whether it's a violation of dress code or something like that," he said. "Because . . . if you allow those things to go, those are the things that creep in when it's a pivotal point in a situation on the field. It's just little things like that, that we've got to explore and we've got to look at and we've got to fix."

https://www.cfl.ca/2019/11/06/morris-lions-one-done-claybrooks-search-new-coach-begins/


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 04, 2019, 04:42:24 PM
There was lots of noise about how good the BC Lions were going to be after they signed Reilly but they failed to fix the two main reasons they were last the year before. Defence and OL were arguably worse than in 2018, and that's what sunk them that year. I get what Hervey was doing, a team needs an elite QB, but it was unfair for anyone to call BC anything other than what it was this year....year one of a rebuild. Claybrooks paid because Hervey would not acknowledge that he was rebuilding.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 04, 2019, 05:59:18 PM
There was lots of noise about how good the BC Lions were going to be after they signed Reilly but they failed to fix the two main reasons they were last the year before. Defence and OL were arguably worse than in 2018, and that's what sunk them that year. I get what Hervey was doing, a team needs an elite QB, but it was unfair for anyone to call BC anything other than what it was this year....year one of a rebuild. Claybrooks paid because Hervey would not acknowledge that he was rebuilding.

Member when we were sad that BC paid Chungh a gazillion bucks and we thought our OL was going to go to shiza? I member.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In Edmonton on December 04, 2019, 06:05:58 PM
I'd take Reilly on the Bombers in a heartbeat. Could you imagine what he'd be able to do with Harris and the O-line here? It's his exorbitant salary that's the problem, as Hervey's no doubt learned. You can't build a well balanced roster with that kind of money on the books.

The 2018 Eskimos and the 2019 Lions missed the playoff in spite of him and his production. He's posted passer ratings of 99.2 and 96.0 over the last two seasons, indicating he's more than done his part. He's just not getting the help around, which speaks to an overall team issue more than anything. Mike Reilly has the numbers and the accolades to back up his worth as a pivot in this league.

I agree on Claybrooks being given a crap hand. One year is not enough time to assess HC ability, IMO. He's one hell of a defensive coach and I'd welcome him here if Hall were to retire.

I actually wouldn't take Reilly here in a heartbeat. His salary skews the SMS and prevents teams from having a deep roster. On our team with everything else being the same, he'd be incredible, but that wouldn't be so as there wouldn't be the salary space to keep together a deep team like we have.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 04, 2019, 06:16:38 PM
I would also take Reilly in a heartbeat, but not at his current salary. Both Calgary and BC suffered in other areas because of their expensive QB's. If you want to win a championship take your slice of the pie, if you are just looking for a big pay day take the whole pie. I think guy's like Biggie, Ah33, Demski, Jefferson, Nichols all understand this.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 04, 2019, 06:55:35 PM
What if the Bombers release Collaros early, see if he wants to stay, or if Pinball really wants him.  Proactively start the dominoes falling. 

If the Argos sign him, that leaves Maosli/Evans (one of them, they both wont be back in Ham), Nichols, Arbuckle available for the two positions left, WPG and OTT. 

Does our bargaining position get better when we are one of 2 teams courting 3 QBs, or when we are one of 3 courting 4?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 04, 2019, 07:00:49 PM
What if the Bombers release Collaros early, see if he wants to stay, or if Pinball really wants him.  Proactively start the dominoes falling. 

If the Argos sign him, that leaves Maosli/Evans (one of them, they both wont be back in Ham), Nichols, Arbuckle available for the two positions left, WPG and OTT. 

Does our bargaining position get better when we are one of 2 teams courting 3 QBs, or when we are one of 3 courting 4?

It's sounding more at more like both Masoli and Evans will be back in Hamilton, actually.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 04, 2019, 07:16:37 PM
Masoli will be back..Evan's did some good things...but became painfully obvious he has a lot to learn and the Grey Cup exposed that....combined with him revealing at this point in his career is lacking leadership capabilities big-time...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: New_Earth_Mud on December 04, 2019, 07:52:19 PM
Masoli will be back..Evan's did some good things...but became painfully obvious he has a lot to learn and the Grey Cup exposed that....combined with him revealing at this point in his career is lacking leadership capabilities big-time...


We also made BLM look like garbage....  i think the good by far out weighs what happened in the Cup game.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 04, 2019, 07:59:21 PM
I agree, Evan's is already a good CFL QB. I sure he will be better next year. Dad will have in QB boot camp all winter.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 04, 2019, 08:09:21 PM
It's sounding more at more like both Masoli and Evans will be back in Hamilton, actually.

They want them both back.. but it's going to be pretty hard to do if someone else wants one of them as a starter...  Hamilton can pay one starters money, then the other can find a job as a starter elsewhere...  if that falls through, if Nichols and Arbuckle get deals first, then sure, the other might settle for backup money... a lot will depend on who signs where first...  there is an outside chance that they lose both if they don't decide on one before FA starts... which would be hilarious.  


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: bluengold204 on December 04, 2019, 08:12:43 PM
They want them both back.. but it's going to be pretty hard to do if someone else wants one of them as a starter...  Hamilton can pay one starters money, then the other can find a job as a starter elsewhere...  if that falls through, if Nichols and Arbuckle get deals first, then sure, the other might settle for backup money... a lot will depend on who signs where first...  there is an outside chance that they lose both if they don't decide on one before FA starts... which would be hilarious.  

Isn't Evans still under contract?  Shouldn't be that hard too keep both assuming Masoli still wants to be there and isn't asking for Riley money


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 04, 2019, 08:18:33 PM
Evan's is under contract. However which one would want to be backup.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 04, 2019, 08:27:38 PM
Right, I forgot Evans is under contract... that means they could re-sign Masoli to starters money, as Evans will be on his ELC still... and then lose Evans next year for sure...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 04, 2019, 08:30:25 PM
Right now I think I would rather have Evan's. The kid has all the tools. Yes, we shut him down in the GC, but our D had there best game of the year.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 04, 2019, 08:37:24 PM
Right, I forgot Evans is under contract... that means they could re-sign Masoli to starters money, as Evans will be on his ELC still... and then lose Evans next year for sure...

Depending on the length of deal the Ti-Cats offer Masoli, they can defer their choice to next season.  Hard to refute they will have the strongest QB team in the league by far  next year.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on December 04, 2019, 09:01:59 PM
Just curious but do we even know if Masoli will be ready for training camp? I thought that I heard on TSN during Grey Cup week that he might not be.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 04, 2019, 09:19:08 PM
Depending on the length of deal the Ti-Cats offer Masoli, they can defer their choice to next season.  Hard to refute they will have the strongest QB team in the league by far  next year.

If they re-sign Masoli, it won't be to back up, or at backup money, meaning that he starts next year, which means that barring injury, Evans gets Willy'd, and leaves at the end of next year...  If HAM chooses Evans, they can bring in a backup that will get paid squadoosh (or run Evans/Moore), and have lots of SMS for teh rest of the team... they have a lot of big names becoming FAs too...  Of the D that started the GC, they have Lawrence and Brooks signed.  Of the O, they have Acklin, Revenberg, Ciraco, Van Zeyl, Evans and Banks...  that's a lot of team to sign...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue72 on December 04, 2019, 09:29:59 PM
With Evans making it to the grey cup, do you thing he goes to management to up his salary with a new deal?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on December 04, 2019, 11:08:39 PM
With Evans making it to the grey cup, do you thing he goes to management to up his salary with a new deal?
yes


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In Edmonton on December 04, 2019, 11:09:56 PM
With Evans making it to the grey cup, do you thing he goes to management to up his salary with a new deal?

Only if they dump Masoli. If this does happen, I suspect that the team actually extends Evans at a higher salary. I think that's extremely unlikely though.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 05, 2019, 02:01:13 AM
Right, I forgot Evans is under contract... that means they could re-sign Masoli to starters money, as Evans will be on his ELC still... and then lose Evans next year for sure...

Could have sworn that Evans actually extended for several years at the end of last season. Possibility he is there for 2 more years under ELC. I don't expect him to get paid those peanuts though if he sees significant starters time at any point.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BLUEBOMBER on December 05, 2019, 07:15:21 AM
I think we can't go wrong with either Nichols or Collaros..  but knowing how classy O'Shea and the Bomber organization is, I think we would stick with Nichols.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 05, 2019, 09:16:29 AM
Right now I think I would rather have Evan's. The kid has all the tools. Yes, we shut him down in the GC, but our D had there best game of the year.

I wouldn't.  Neither will KW.  I go back to my little study of GC winners... they are usually guys with more years in the league, and more games under their belt.  8-year Collaros vs 2-year Evans just proved it holds true!

Who here doesn't think if Masoli started the GC that it wouldn't have been way harder to win?  Masoli: 7 years.

Nope, we'll stick with Nichols (8 years), Collaros (8 years) or go after a real vet like Masoli.  That's how you maximize your chance for a repeat in 2020.  And it also means you're unlikely to win 2020 GC with Evans, Arbuckle, or Fajardo.  They might win a GC eventually, but odds are it will be later in their careers.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on December 05, 2019, 02:02:21 PM
Tech-no. Correlation does not imply causation.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 06, 2019, 05:13:48 AM
Tech-no. Correlation does not imply causation.

But it doesn't rule it out either.  That's why you need to think objectively about it, and examine the situation and facts.

1. QB is the most important position on the field (no one argues that)
2. QBs with more years will generally recognize looks and make reads better/faster, have more playoff games under their belt and thus less nerves, and have more experience being leaders of men in trying situations.

Look at Evans vs Collaros in the GC.  Evans was flustered, crying, panicking, pouting, dissing his OL, and sending up INTable floaters pretty much the whole night.  Collaros was barely fazed by anything, never seemed to have any nerves either before, during or after the game, and just played good ball.

I don't think that's because Evans sucks (he doesn't) or that Collaros is the next Flutie (he's not).  I think it's because Collaros has been there done that for 8 years, and Evans hasn't.

I can't remember what the winning QB with the least years-starting-in-CFL was (BLM at 3?), but unless you are sure you have the next BLM as your QB, I would roster a vet QB as my #1 if I had GC aspirations.  If no other QB in history could do it in their 1st or 2nd year, it's the ultimate hubris to think you'll be the historical anomaly.  Sure, a miracle could happen, but it's part of the reason KW will sign Nichols or Collaros as #1, not Strev or Arbuckle or Evans or Fajardo.  After all, football is essentially an odds game.

As further evidence, I offer you the 2020 SSK season and GC, since there's a 99.999% chance it's not Fajardo hoisting it 12 months hence.  Nope, it'll be some 4-10 year vet (probably 7-9) again, and that I would bet money on.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on December 06, 2019, 06:01:31 AM
But it doesn't rule it out either.  That's why you need to think objectively about it, and examine the situation and facts.

1. QB is the most important position on the field (no one argues that)
2. QBs with more years will generally recognize looks and make reads better/faster, have more playoff games under their belt and thus less nerves, and have more experience being leaders of men in trying situations.

Look at Evans vs Collaros in the GC.  Evans was flustered, crying, panicking, pouting, dissing his OL, and sending up INTable floaters pretty much the whole night.  Collaros was barely fazed by anything, never seemed to have any nerves either before, during or after the game, and just played good ball.

I don't think that's because Evans sucks (he doesn't) or that Collaros is the next Flutie (he's not).  I think it's because Collaros has been there done that for 8 years, and Evans hasn't.

I can't remember what the winning QB with the least years-starting-in-CFL was (BLM at 3?), but unless you are sure you have the next BLM as your QB, I would roster a vet QB as my #1 if I had GC aspirations.  If no other QB in history could do it in their 1st or 2nd year, it's the ultimate hubris to think you'll be the historical anomaly.  Sure, a miracle could happen, but it's part of the reason KW will sign Nichols or Collaros as #1, not Strev or Arbuckle or Evans or Fajardo.  After all, football is essentially an odds game.

As further evidence, I offer you the 2020 SSK season and GC, since there's a 99.999% chance it's not Fajardo hoisting it 12 months hence.  Nope, it'll be some 4-10 year vet (probably 7-9) again, and that I would bet money on.

i believe the Cats will be back at the Grey Cup next season and there's a good chance the Riders might as well.   If Masoli is Hamilton's #1 the odds are with him over Fjardo.   However if Evans is retained as their #1 and Masoli bolts then you'll have two relatively inexperienced QBs.   Evans with having won a final and made a Cup appearance will likely not falter as he did against the Bombers.   

I tend to agree with your rationale however we could see two  fairly inexperienced QBs playing one another in the GC.   In these type of winner take all experience often trumps youth and ability!!   It will be interesting to see where all the QBs end up come TC


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 06, 2019, 01:31:33 PM
But it doesn't rule it out either.  That's why you need to think objectively about it, and examine the situation and facts.

1. QB is the most important position on the field (no one argues that)
2. QBs with more years will generally recognize looks and make reads better/faster, have more playoff games under their belt and thus less nerves, and have more experience being leaders of men in trying situations.

Look at Evans vs Collaros in the GC.  Evans was flustered, crying, panicking, pouting, dissing his OL, and sending up INTable floaters pretty much the whole night.  Collaros was barely fazed by anything, never seemed to have any nerves either before, during or after the game, and just played good ball.

I don't think that's because Evans sucks (he doesn't) or that Collaros is the next Flutie (he's not).  I think it's because Collaros has been there done that for 8 years, and Evans hasn't.

I can't remember what the winning QB with the least years-starting-in-CFL was (BLM at 3?), but unless you are sure you have the next BLM as your QB, I would roster a vet QB as my #1 if I had GC aspirations.  If no other QB in history could do it in their 1st or 2nd year, it's the ultimate hubris to think you'll be the historical anomaly.  Sure, a miracle could happen, but it's part of the reason KW will sign Nichols or Collaros as #1, not Strev or Arbuckle or Evans or Fajardo.  After all, football is essentially an odds game.

As further evidence, I offer you the 2020 SSK season and GC, since there's a 99.999% chance it's not Fajardo hoisting it 12 months hence.  Nope, it'll be some 4-10 year vet (probably 7-9) again, and that I would bet money on.


This...Evan's was totally outmatched in Grey Cup because was basically a rookie starter, saw things he never seen before, the pressure was ratcheted up and the speed was more intense...his in-experience caused him to wilt, and that was stated before the Grey Cup that it could be the Cat's undoing...I know I said that.

He coasted through the last 3rd of season against relatively easy opposition and no urgency whatsoever, and was hardly battle tested, where Winnipeg came in basically in play-off mode mind-set and playing for a real purpose probably since game 16 of regular season...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on December 06, 2019, 01:46:53 PM
Having a vet QB is good, but not the big reason we won the GC this year.

Our vet QB threw for 170 yards, no TD's and no Ints. Their rookie QB threw for 203 yards, 1 TD and 2 Int's.

Our defence on the other hand allowed one TD and got 7 turnovers. They were the difference makers, not the QB's.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 06, 2019, 01:56:39 PM
Having a vet QB is good, but not the big reason we won the GC this year.

Our vet QB threw for 170 yards, no TD's and no Ints. Their rookie QB threw for 203 yards, 1 TD and 2 Int's.

Our defence on the other hand allowed one TD and got 7 turnovers. They were the difference makers, not the QB's.


You have to look at it in the way as well that our defense caused that rookie QB to make mistakes..and turn ball over...confused him..whereas a vet..may not have done that

I agree our defense was phenomenal, but part of that could be attributed to messing with a rokkie QB

Zack did what he needed to, protected the ball and was cool as a cuke...been there..done that...the value of a vet...nothing that Ham presented to him confused him, or was something he never seen been..Evan's...quite the opposite


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on December 06, 2019, 02:08:19 PM
You have to look at it in the way as well that our defense caused that rookie QB to make mistakes..and turn ball over...confused him..whereas a vet..may not have done that

I agree our defense was phenomenal, but part of that could be attributed to messing with a rokkie QB

Zack did what he needed to, protected the ball and was cool as a cuke...been there..done that...the value of a vet...nothing that Ham presented to him confused him, or was something he never seen been..Evan's...quite the opposite
The rookie QB turned the ball over twice out of 7 turnovers. One was a tipped int on his first pass of the day. Yes, he looked confused and frustrated. No, I don't think any old vet QB would have done much better, but I do think that this experience will make Evans a better QB going forward.

Was the young QB starting his first GC game part of the reason? Sure. A big part? Debatable.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: the paw on December 06, 2019, 02:29:22 PM
The rookie QB turned the ball over twice out of 7 turnovers. One was a tipped int on his first pass of the day. Yes, he looked confused and frustrated. No, I don't think any old vet QB would have done much better, but I do think that this experience will make Evans a better QB going forward.

Was the young QB starting his first GC game part of the reason? Sure. A big part? Debatable.


I think Collaros veteran experience at  QB was a good part of the reason we won the cup.  But I don't think the QB play by Evans was the reason Hamilton lost.  I don't there is a QB in the league that was going to be able to stand in there against the pressure we got from the DEs.  Especially when it was coupled with secondary schemes that took away Addison and Banks favorite routes. 


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Colton on December 06, 2019, 02:47:53 PM
The rookie QB turned the ball over twice out of 7 turnovers. One was a tipped int on his first pass of the day. Yes, he looked confused and frustrated. No, I don't think any old vet QB would have done much better, but I do think that this experience will make Evans a better QB going forward.

Was the young QB starting his first GC game part of the reason? Sure. A big part? Debatable.


Only twice? Do the two fumbles not also count? He also failed to convert on one of the two 3rd and 1 stands.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on December 06, 2019, 04:23:58 PM
Only twice? Do the two fumbles not also count? He also failed to convert on one of the two 3rd and 1 stands.
Those had more to do with our D line dominance than young QB Vs vet QB.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 06, 2019, 05:31:52 PM
Having a vet QB is good, but not the big reason we won the GC this year.

Our vet QB threw for 170 yards, no TD's and no Ints. Their rookie QB threw for 203 yards, 1 TD and 2 Int's.

Our defence on the other hand allowed one TD and got 7 turnovers. They were the difference makers, not the QB's.

Put down your black or white brush for just a moment, winning football is about scoring points by hook or by crook.  The Bomber QB tandem moved Medlock within scoring range 7 times of which he converted 6, in addition to the two drives they orchestrated that lead to Harris TD's.  That accounts for 32 points of 33 they helped generate, a very well executed game on their part, supported by a D that played well beyond reasonable expectations, limiting the Ti-Cats to 12 points scored.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 06, 2019, 06:08:11 PM
Put down your black or white brush for just a moment, winning football is about scoring points by hook or by crook.  The Bomber QB tandem moved Medlock within scoring range 7 times of which he converted 6, in addition to the two drives they orchestrated that lead to Harris TD's.  That accounts for 32 points of 33 they helped generate, a very well executed game on their part, supported by a D that played well beyond reasonable expectations, limiting the Ti-Cats to 12 points scored.

Actually (to further your point), didn?t it account for all 33 points? The offence got Medlock to the point where he was ?able? (lol) to miss an FG and grab a single.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 06, 2019, 06:20:41 PM
Actually (to further your point), didn?t it account for all 33 points? The offence got Medlock to the point where he was ?able? (lol) to miss an FG and grab a single.

True.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 06, 2019, 06:29:25 PM
True.

Turnovers led directly to field position in several scoring drives. Defense.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 06, 2019, 07:17:58 PM
Turnovers led directly to field position in several scoring drives. Defense.

Also true.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 06, 2019, 07:25:58 PM
We did what we had to do on offence. It wasn't a herculean effort....didn't have to be. Harris having the game of his life did most of our offensive heavy lifting. More about our running game and OL really. The Hamilton lack of offence was in large part due to Evans not getting into a rhythm, big part of that was inexperience. However, if we trade QBs we still win that game pretty easily. Maybe the gap is a touch narrower but we still win. For that reason, I don't think pinning the win/loss on QB experience is apt. Football is a team game and without a monumental effort by our D, OL, and the Winnipeg boyz we don't win that game. Collaros or not. I am appreciative of ZC's efforts but he was not a key to victory in the GC game. He did, as Nichols has done so many times, simply not get in the way of us winning by making mistakes. Not knocking ZC...that was the game plan.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on December 06, 2019, 07:44:07 PM
Put down your black or white brush for just a moment, winning football is about scoring points by hook or by crook.  The Bomber QB tandem moved Medlock within scoring range 7 times of which he converted 6, in addition to the two drives they orchestrated that lead to Harris TD's.  That accounts for 32 points of 33 they helped generate, a very well executed game on their part, supported by a D that played well beyond reasonable expectations, limiting the Ti-Cats to 12 points scored.
Yes we won. Yes, the QB's did their jobs. No, that doesn't mean that we need a vet QB to win or that a vet QB was the main reason that we won.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 06, 2019, 07:52:22 PM
Yes we won. Yes, the QB's did their jobs. No, that doesn't mean that we need a vet QB to win or that a vet QB was the main reason that we won.
Would we have won with Mcguire?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on December 06, 2019, 07:57:52 PM
I think that we also could have won with Nichols. We won this game with the defence and the determination of Harris in the running game. Hamilton still had a chance until they lost Speedy Banks and when they got stopped on third and short for a second time you could see that all hope was lost.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on December 06, 2019, 07:58:54 PM
Turnovers led directly to field position in several scoring drives. Defense.

This. The defense had a monstrous performance in the most important game of the season. Harris having a game for the ages was also a huge factor, especially later on when it came to running down the clock.

The QBs did a commendable job and I'll say Streveler's TD pass to Harris was my favourite play of the game. I don't think QBing put this team over the top in the championship game, though. They were efficient and smart with the ball and that's all that was needed when the all the other moving parts were a well-oiled and unstoppable machine.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 06, 2019, 08:07:12 PM
This. The defense had a monstrous performance in the most important game of the season. Harris having a game for the ages was also a huge factor, especially later on when it came to running down the clock.

The QBs did a commendable job and I'll say Streveler's TD pass to Harris was my favourite play of the game. I don't think QBing put this team over the top in the championship game, though. They were efficient and smart with the ball and that's all that was needed when the all the other moving parts were a well-oiled and unstoppable machine.

That's really the winning formula this team has adopted under LaPo, and some fans hate it, but there's no disputing their success.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 06, 2019, 08:09:12 PM
Turnovers led directly to field position in several scoring drives. Defense.

Zero people are doubting the enormous role defense played in our cup win. Fact of the matter is, offense answered the bell and built on opportunities created. Nobody did anything themselves.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on December 06, 2019, 08:25:16 PM
That's really the winning formula this team has adopted under LaPo, and some fans hate it, but there's no disputing their success.

It's no secret Harris is the key to the offense. My only "issue" with that is can make for a boring or even non-existent air attack, which we saw for the bulk of the season and in the playoffs. I won't complain (much) over an efficient, safe offensive that's successful at scoring, but when other phases of the game struggled, the offense looked exposed at times.

Fortunately, it all came together at basically the perfect time and we witnessed a championship run for the ages. However, I'd be lying if I said I'd accept the status quo on offense in 2020. I want to see that strong, mostly unstoppable run game but I'd very much like a more balanced offense like we saw in 2017. That combined with the defense we saw for the majority of 2019 could make for such an exciting team, IMO.

A lot of pieces have to fall into place personnel-wise before that but that's my hope looking ahead to 2020. I think we're in for a heck of an off-season, both here and across the CFL landscape.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 06, 2019, 08:57:21 PM
It's no secret Harris is the key to the offense. My only "issue" with that is can make for a boring or even non-existent air attack, which we saw for the bulk of the season and in the playoffs. I won't complain (much) over an efficient, safe offensive that's successful at scoring, but when other phases of the game struggled, the offense looked exposed at times.

Fortunately, it all came together at basically the perfect time and we witnessed a championship run for the ages. However, I'd be lying if I said I'd accept the status quo on offense in 2020. I want to see that strong, mostly unstoppable run game but I'd very much like a more balanced offense like we saw in 2017. That combined with the defense we saw for the majority of 2019 could make for such an exciting team, IMO.

A lot of pieces have to fall into place personnel-wise before that but that's my hope looking ahead to 2020. I think we're in for a heck of an off-season, both here and across the CFL landscape.

It surely looks like LaPo intends to move on to bigger opportunities shortly, so good possibility we'll see a bit of a different look next season under Buck.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: ModAdmin on December 07, 2019, 07:31:53 AM
I do believe we need to take our best shot at signing Zach Collaros.  His performance in the 4 games he played for the Bombers is impressive and he is a winner.  At the moment, we have a Oline that can protect him and a defence that is capable of shutting down any offence in the league.

Not saying there won't be changes but just reinforcing the current team is a winner and we need to hold onto as many current players we can, including the guy who led them to the Grey Cup.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 07, 2019, 09:45:09 AM
I do believe we need to take our best shot at signing Zach Collaros.

Not sure that'll happen.  Aggregating what the (very perceptive) others have already said, here's the writing on the wall that Zach probably goes back east:

1. Nichols ran out on the GC field (in civvies) with the O (possibly ahead of Collaros!)
2. Nichols was in the parade truck bed with Strev et al; while Collaros rode discreetly in the cab
3. Every time someone on the call-in shows says "Collaros", MOS says "don't forget Matt"

All indications are that everyone involved already knows what's happening with Collaros, and that it was all pre-ordained before he even got here.

I wonder if they delay the Collaros/Nichols news as long as they can in order to maximize STH sales  ;) ;D

I know there's going to be a fair amount of grumbling when they announce Nichols is #1.  Personally I'm fine with either QB and think both have earned our respect and gratitude, and both are more than capable of getting us more GCs.  I think if you're Nichols you take a slight pay cut (certainly not a raise) this year to help your case on the team.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on December 07, 2019, 12:23:24 PM
I do believe we need to take our best shot at signing Zach Collaros.  His performance in the 4 games he played for the Bombers is impressive and he is a winner.  At the moment, we have a Oline that can protect him and a defence that is capable of shutting down any offence in the league.

Not saying there won't be changes but just reinforcing the current team is a winner and we need to hold onto as many current players we can, including the guy who led them to the Grey Cup.
Though I agree with you I can also see the writing on the wall with Collaros likely heading east.   In the 4 games he played he threw one pick against Calgary in the last game of the season and 0 picks in all 3 playoff games!   That's impressive and albeit he never once threw for 300 yards in any of the games he played, he completed some incredibly accurate deep balls to get us out of a hole at key times in games!   He also rarely was sacked and managed to escape the pass rush several times and make something from nothing.   You take away those big plays and the game suddenly takes on a whole new complexion!   The guy is very cool under pressure.

That being said, yes Nichols will likely be our guy going forward and for me he still needs to prove that he can deliver in the BIG games.   I'm still concerned with his shoulder injury and worried he may end up like Lulay, who never ever fully recovered from that injury!   I keep hearing from on this forum that we don't know the severity of the injury and that he could bounce back and regain his 7-2 form prior to injury!   That's a lot to be hopeful for and it might happen.....but then again it might not.   Also, consider that we may have a new OC in place if LaPo lands a HC job.    If that happens will the job be filled in house with Buck?   

There are too many variables and unanswered questions remaining at this juncture and I'm hoping that we can retain as many players from this team as possible, including Zach "Attack" Collaros!   


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on December 07, 2019, 02:20:20 PM
Would we have won with Mcguire?
If you're asking if our 3rd string QB with almost no reps would be good enough to win considering our D turned the ball over 7 times and owned the LOS? Likely yes.

A better question is would they have won if they had Collaros and we had Evans (Vet vs Young starter). That's not very likely at all.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: dd on December 07, 2019, 02:55:03 PM
Can?t say whether we would have won with McGuire or not haven?t seen much of him. But you could have given franklin or Jennings 7 turnovers and I guarantee you they?d be turning the ball over themselves. We ve seen guys come in to handle 3rd down short yardage fumble and turnover the ball, there could have been exchange issues with a new an just getting the snap off without offsides/the line jumping or screwing up the handoff, and with a green/hasn?t taken many snaps Qb these types of things happen. All Hamilton needed in that game was a chance to get back in the game and our offense wouldn?t give it to them via a turnover. That in itself was huge


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 07, 2019, 02:58:55 PM
Though I agree with you I can also see the writing on the wall with Collaros likely heading east.   In the 4 games he played he threw one pick against Calgary in the last game of the season and 0 picks in all 3 playoff games!   That's impressive and albeit he never once threw for 300 yards in any of the games he played, he completed some incredibly accurate deep balls to get us out of a hole at key times in games!   He also rarely was sacked and managed to escape the pass rush several times and make something from nothing.   You take away those big plays and the game suddenly takes on a whole new complexion!   The guy is very cool under pressure.

That being said, yes Nichols will likely be our guy going forward and for me he still needs to prove that he can deliver in the BIG games.   I'm still concerned with his shoulder injury and worried he may end up like Lulay, who never ever fully recovered from that injury!   I keep hearing from on this forum that we don't know the severity of the injury and that he could bounce back and regain his 7-2 form prior to injury!   That's a lot to be hopeful for and it might happen.....but then again it might not.   Also, consider that we may have a new OC in place if LaPo lands a HC job.    If that happens will the job be filled in house with Buck?   

There are too many variables and unanswered questions remaining at this juncture and I'm hoping that we can retain as many players from this team as possible, including Zach "Attack" Collaros!   

One thing you can be fairly certain of, if they have to replace LaPo or Hall, O'Shea will do so from his existing staff.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: bunker on December 11, 2019, 11:23:34 PM
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/winnipegsun.com/sports/football/friesen-door-wide-open-for-collaros-return-to-bombers/amp


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 12, 2019, 12:51:01 AM
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/winnipegsun.com/sports/football/friesen-door-wide-open-for-collaros-return-to-bombers/amp

Well it looks like it's up to Walters to make his mind up, if he chooses Collaros, Nichols will probably follow LaPo to the RB's fairly quickly, which would workout well for all concerned parties.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 12, 2019, 09:06:40 AM
Well it looks like it's up to Walters to make his mind up, if he chooses Collaros, Nichols will probably follow LaPo to the RB's fairly quickly, which would workout well for all concerned parties.

Interesting.  But it could all be a tactic by Collaros to get more money out of whatever not-WPG team he ends up with.  It doesn't help your salary negotiation when you say "I only want to be with TOR".  You make them fight for you, even if it's an illusion.

However, Nichols to OTT and Collaros in WPG is definitely possible.

But if we go Collaros/Strev then we need to find a way to keep a legit #1b on the PR, at great SMS expense.  Who that's available and 1b material would take a job like that?  I can only think of Arbuckle, by why not just stay and be 1b in CGY?  Maybe MBT could be just good enough too, but it's a stretch.

The chance Collaros goes 18 games (plus playoffs) without a concussion is near zero.  To roll with Collaros/Strev alone would be suicide.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 12, 2019, 01:22:54 PM
Interesting.  But it could all be a tactic by Collaros to get more money out of whatever not-WPG team he ends up with.  It doesn't help your salary negotiation when you say "I only want to be with TOR".  You make them fight for you, even if it's an illusion.

However, Nichols to OTT and Collaros in WPG is definitely possible.

But if we go Collaros/Strev then we need to find a way to keep a legit #1b on the PR, at great SMS expense.  Who that's available and 1b material would take a job like that?  I can only think of Arbuckle, by why not just stay and be 1b in CGY?  Maybe MBT could be just good enough too, but it's a stretch.

The chance Collaros goes 18 games (plus playoffs) without a concussion is near zero.  To roll with Collaros/Strev alone would be suicide.


Yes and no...very risky, but perhaps the extra reps Strev takes awsy from Collaros keeps him healthy, and maybe going into year 3 Strev progresses even more in an offence thats well rounded...for him and not just glorified run plays that you see a mile away..I also really think Strev will develop a lot faster behind Collaros and watching him on the field more than Nichols


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on December 12, 2019, 04:37:17 PM
If Collaros wants to stay here, great. He and Streveler make for a very good tandem behind this O-line.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the team's QB situation.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on December 12, 2019, 09:27:49 PM
With LaPo gone it would be interesting to see how Nichols fairs. I think his success might have been more of a product of LaPo's system than some might care to admit. Intriguing times.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: New_Earth_Mud on December 12, 2019, 09:46:00 PM
With LaPo gone it would be interesting to see how Nichols fairs. I think his success might have been more of a product of LaPo's system than some might care to admit. Intriguing times.


Was thinking the same.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 13, 2019, 01:22:58 AM
With LaPo gone it would be interesting to see how Nichols fairs. I think his success might have been more of a product of LaPo's system than some might care to admit. Intriguing times.

Could be the contrary. Maybe Lapo lacked trust in Nichols and the new OC opens up the book and allows him to stretch the field more?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: New_Earth_Mud on December 13, 2019, 01:37:28 AM
I dont think Zack is the one hit n done here as ppl think.

Ill bet he wants to play here with our Oline and Buck as OC.

We have a Great OL and RB......  its perfect for him. Hes got Strev to lay back on.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 13, 2019, 01:54:20 AM
I dont think Zack is the one hit n done here as ppl think.

Ill bet he wants to play here with our Oline and Buck as OC.

We have a Great OL and RB......  its perfect for him. Hes got Strev to lay back on.


Agree. I'd be perfectly happy with either Collaros or Nichols here in front of Strev.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: New_Earth_Mud on December 13, 2019, 02:13:59 AM
I like Nic but i dont want him. I dont think we have won with Nic.


If we want to keep it going   ......  Zack n Strev.....  Buck running the O

Im not a Hall fan but he got the job done.

I think it was more the players that wanted the job done.

Was it a good coached game?   Sure

But it was pure will of our players that wanted it.   

They went out and took it.   


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on December 13, 2019, 02:20:38 AM
I like Nic but i dont want him. I dont think we have won with Nic.


If we want to keep it going   ......  Zack n Strev.....  Buck running the O

Im not a Hall fan but he got the job done.

I think it was more the players that wanted the job done.

Was it a good coached game?   Sure

But it was pure will of our players that wanted it.   

They went out and took it.   

I agree all around. Would prefer Hall be gone. I can see a serious regress if he is here again next year.

Buck show with Zack and Strev works! Looks like Arbuckle ain?t coming here anytime soon. Stick with what worked great last season.

Nichols can go away. No doubt he is a character player but his pocket presence is always lacking and lacks mobility. Serious throwing shoulder injury from a guy who wasn?t the greatest at throwing long balls to start with?mmmm, no thanks.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: New_Earth_Mud on December 13, 2019, 02:25:39 AM
I agree all around. Would prefer Hall be gone. I can see a serious regress if he is here again next year.

Buck show with Zack and Strev works! Looks like Arbuckle ain?t coming here anytime soon. Stick with what worked great last season.

Nichols can go away. No doubt he is a character player but his pocket presence is always lacking and lacks mobility. Serious throwing shoulder injury from a guy who wasn?t the greatest at throwing long balls to start with?mmmm, no thanks.


Agree


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Horseman on December 13, 2019, 02:33:26 AM

Agree


Agree x 2


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 13, 2019, 08:34:30 AM
Could be the contrary. Maybe Lapo lacked trust in Nichols and the new OC opens up the book and allows him to stretch the field more?

That's 66Chevelle's theory.  Where is 66 anyhow?  I bet he was at the GC, and he went quiet around the playoffs last year too.  You guys may be right.  The beauty of it is we may get to find out!  However, if OC is Buck, chances are he continues with the Lapo book and paradigm as he slowly makes it his own.

I agree all around. Would prefer Hall be gone. I can see a serious regress if he is here again next year.

There it is!  The first "fire Hall" post after he won the GC for us.  Only waited 3 weeks.  We predicted it in threads mid year.  Here it is.  Didn't think it would be you Goldie!

You guys did see our D in the GC (and WSF and WF) right?  Sure, the players had mega-hunger, sure they played lights out, but they were playing Hall's scheme!  Hall smoke & mirrored all the opponents all season in order to shock the beejebus out of them in the post-season.  No one -- no one -- saw what our D did to HAM coming.  Our D was so dominant that we might have won with just a hobbled Strev at QB.

If Hall wants to stay (vs retire), he's our guaranteed DC.

Hall has been vindicated!

And I for one am glad.  I can't believe this is actually still going to be an issue.  If MOS gets wind of this he'll be rolling his eyes overtime.

Oh ya, remind me: How many other DC's in the league have 2 GC rings as DC?

#1 D.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 13, 2019, 01:23:46 PM
I agree all around. Would prefer Hall be gone. I can see a serious regress if he is here again next year.

Buck show with Zack and Strev works! Looks like Arbuckle ain?t coming here anytime soon. Stick with what worked great last season.

Nichols can go away. No doubt he is a character player but his pocket presence is always lacking and lacks mobility. Serious throwing shoulder injury from a guy who wasn?t the greatest at throwing long balls to start with?mmmm, no thanks.

I don't, it's not a matter of the players just took bull by the horns and stepped up and won cause they willed their way to it

Hall totallt morphed the defensive philosophy/scheme the last 3-4 games of the season and in the play-offs, and if you watch some games and can understand concepts and subtle differences/variations...it's pretty obvious

Even comments from BLM as well as Steinhauer confirms it...teams were standing there with jock in their hands wondering *** happened to the bombers tendancies based on down and distance from al year, and the different fronts and blitz packages they showed...also the key to the whole thing was Maston, then Alexander position switch


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on December 13, 2019, 01:43:24 PM
That's 66Chevelle's theory.  Where is 66 anyhow?  I bet he was at the GC, and he went quiet around the playoffs last year too.  You guys may be right.  The beauty of it is we may get to find out!  However, if OC is Buck, chances are he continues with the Lapo book and paradigm as he slowly makes it his own.

There it is!  The first "fire Hall" post after he won the GC for us.  Only waited 3 weeks.  We predicted it in threads mid year.  Here it is.  Didn't think it would be you Goldie!

You guys did see our D in the GC (and WSF and WF) right?  Sure, the players had mega-hunger, sure they played lights out, but they were playing Hall's scheme!  Hall smoke & mirrored all the opponents all season in order to shock the beejebus out of them in the post-season.  No one -- no one -- saw what our D did to HAM coming.  Our D was so dominant that we might have won with just a hobbled Strev at QB.

If Hall wants to stay (vs retire), he's our guaranteed DC.

Hall has been vindicated!

And I for one am glad.  I can't believe this is actually still going to be an issue.  If MOS gets wind of this he'll be rolling his eyes overtime.

Oh ya, remind me: How many other DC's in the league have 2 GC rings as DC?

#1 D.

Chevy wasn't at the GC....he sent me a personal message saying he was unable to renew his passport in time as he didn't see us winning even the WSF with Strevs.  Then out of nowhere, we pick up Collaros and win 4 straight!  He actually offered to buy my GC ticket just because I have been a Bomber fan for 6 decades and never been to a Grey Cup game!!  As much as I was totally flattered and humbled by the offer, I found and paid for my own ticket.

I really miss his posts and was hoping to read his take on the whole playoff and Cup run!   For whatever reason, he takes a lot of uncalled for personal flack on this forum.   


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 13, 2019, 01:46:02 PM
Chevy wasn't at the GC....he sent me a personal message saying he was unable to renew his passport in time as he didn't see us winning even the WSF with Strevs.  Then out of nowhere, we pick up Collaros and win 4 straight!  He actually offered to buy my GC ticket just because I have been a Bomber fan for 6 decades and never been to a Grey Cup game!!  As much as I was totally flattered and humbled by the offer, I found and paid for my own ticket.

I really miss his posts and was hoping to read his take on the whole playoff and Cup run!   For whatever reason, he takes a lot of uncalled for personal flack on this forum.   

Cause he keeps it real and comments and sees things in a different way, much like myself...and there is noting wrong with that...Enthusiastic loyal fans, and haters see the resulkts, but don't see the true things that lead to the results, or the reason why..


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on December 13, 2019, 01:55:23 PM
Cause he keeps it real and comments and sees things in a different way, much like myself...and there is noting wrong with that...Enthusiastic loyal fans, and haters see the resulkts, but don't see the true things that lead to the results, or the reason why..
Agreed Booch....I also enjoy your posts.   Come back Chevy!!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 13, 2019, 01:57:19 PM
I don't, it's not a matter of the players just took bull by the horns and stepped up and won cause they willed their way to it

Hall totallt morphed the defensive philosophy/scheme the last 3-4 games of the season and in the play-offs, and if you watch some games and can understand concepts and subtle differences/variations...it's pretty obvious

Even comments from BLM as well as Steinhauer confirms it...teams were standing there with jock in their hands wondering *** happened to the bombers tendancies based on down and distance from al year, and the different fronts and blitz packages they showed...also the key to the whole thing was Maston, then Alexander position switch

Great improvement over the play off run and yes he made adjustments that succeeded. OTOH will he revert to his old tendencies that exposed him over several seasons? He's still that same guy and that's the concern with him.

I doubt MOS makes a change at DC. However I'm not sure about the other coaches on the defensive side if they plan to return as other opportunities come up.

I wonder if we have any interest in adding Claybrooks in some capacity. He'd be available at low cost with the Lions picking up the difference. If one of our other defensive coaches leaves he add some valuable experience??


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 13, 2019, 01:57:35 PM
Agreed Booch....I also enjoy your posts.   Come back Chevy!!

Thanks...I enjoy making them hahahahha


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 13, 2019, 02:01:14 PM
Great improvement over the play off run and yes he made adjustments that succeeded. OTOH will he revert to his old tendencies that exposed him over several seasons? He's still that same guy and that's the concern with him.

I doubt MOS makes a change at DC. However I'm not sure about the other coaches on the defensive side if they plan to return as other opportunities come up.

I wonder if we have any interest in adding Claybrooks in some capacity. He'd be available at low cost with the Lions picking up the difference. If one of our other defensive coaches leaves he add some valuable experience??

Coaches evolve and even though Hall has been around a while now, he is by no means a dinosaur..so can't realistically see him moving away from something that was so successful, and if he chooses to hang em up...which I would think is the only reason he wouldn't be back, then I can see us promoting Younger, or Young, as the change kind of started when they took over when Hall was away, and I think the end product was a collaboration to be honest, so we will be in good hands and still have the continuity


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 13, 2019, 02:18:24 PM
Coaches evolve and even though Hall has been around a while now, he is by no means a dinosaur..so can't realistically see him moving away from something that was so successful, and if he chooses to hang em up...which I would think is the only reason he wouldn't be back, then I can see us promoting Younger, or Young, as the change kind of started when they took over when Hall was away, and I think the end product was a collaboration to be honest, so we will be in good hands and still have the continuity

I repeat: it was 4 games. Evolution is gradual. This was not a gradual change, it was like a switch was flipped to on for a month.  Human nature reverts to longer tendencies.

One thing that comes to mind is that we got to play Fajardo coming off an injury and Evans who was a 1st year starter. For once in our play off runs we came up against oppositions with more obstacles ( injuries etc ) than we did.

Would we have seen the same schemes and results if Masoli had been healthy? We'll never know. You only get to play the teams / rosters that show up on game day.

He's still the DC that collapsed during several games during the season resulting in our 3rd place finish in 2019 and other memorable losses before.

Hard not to get swept up in the " what have you done for us lately " when " lately " was extremely successful. OTOH looking at the longer sample can't be ignored either.

Perhaps more of the earlier failures were due to roster issues beyond his control. The late season changes with Alexander, Taylor and Maston seemed to come together at the right time.

Regardless I never felt MOS would make a change. Winning the Grey Cup just made it easier to not make a change IMO. I expect Hall will be back.

EDIT: I might add that the defense in the WDF gave up 456 yards which was a more typical result for Hall. There were a couple of decisive moments where the Riders fell on their own sword. In particular the 2nd and goal where their execution executed themselves. Then of course there was the last pass hitting the goal post and preventing OT.

We might have still won but those plays did happen and we benefited from them. That can't be discounted either.







Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 13, 2019, 03:05:45 PM
I repeat: it was 4 games. Evolution is gradual. This was not a gradual change, it was like a switch was flipped to on for a month.  Human nature reverts to longer tendencies.

One thing that comes to mind is that we got to play Fajardo coming off an injury and Evans who was a 1st year starter. For once in our play off runs we came up against oppositions with more obstacles ( injuries etc ) than we did.

Would we have seen the same schemes and results if Masoli had been healthy? We'll never know. You only get to play the teams / rosters that show up on game day.

He's still the DC that collapsed during several games during the season resulting in our 3rd place finish in 2019 and other memorable losses before.

Hard not to get swept up in the " what have you done for us lately " when " lately " was extremely successful. OTOH looking at the longer sample can't be ignored either.

Perhaps more of the earlier failures were due to roster issues beyond his control. The late season changes with Alexander, Taylor and Maston seemed to come together at the right time.

Regardless I never felt MOS would make a change. Winning the Grey Cup just made it easier to not make a change IMO. I expect Hall will be back.

EDIT: I might add that the defense in the WDF gave up 456 yards which was a more typical result for Hall. There were a couple of decisive moments where the Riders fell on their own sword. In particular the 2nd and goal where their execution executed themselves. Then of course there was the last pass hitting the goal post and preventing OT.

We might have still won but those plays did happen and we benefited from them. That can't be discounted either.







It was started later in season when Hall was away..was perfected in play-offs...wasn't 4 games by any means. Once Alexander was moved and Taylor was inserted we were able to play more man, combos of cover 2 with mixture of man, or dropping Biggie off and having essentially 2 softies in coverage, and our Blitzing was better wit Maston.

When Jones was brought in in final game, and 3 play-off games it completed things and allowed us even more man to man work...Just because you didn't see us utilize press coverage much didn't mean our overall coverages didn't change...we made a huge switch in what we did over last 7..8 games...and gave up yards....so what...how many TD's did we give up??....


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 13, 2019, 03:14:21 PM
I guess we will see who the OC will be soon enough.  If it is Buck, I can see Nichols / Streveler back.  McGuire hiding on the IR.  But Collaros might have made an impression... Buck needs horses to succeed, not loyalty.  If he makes sure that is his focus, we might see a GC roster repeat...  not that Nichols doesn't bleed Blue and Gold, and if WFC decides that they want to extend Collaros/Streveler, I am sure Nichols will find a nice home, with a nice pacheck in Ottawa with Lapo and Dom Davis...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: dd on December 13, 2019, 03:26:39 PM
I can?t believe we just won the Grey cup of people are calling for the head of the guy who designed the defence that won us the cup?!? Unreal.  Guarantee you the mike Oshea that I know doesn?t make a change a DC. We ll be getting a new OC and I m not sure Buck is a slam dunk for that . We ll see what MOS does but I m thinking he likes guys who are experienced at the position not a newbie to it. There was a reason Lapo and Richie got their jobs in the first place.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 13, 2019, 03:38:02 PM
It was started later in season when Hall was away..was perfected in play-offs...wasn't 4 games by any means. Once Alexander was moved and Taylor was inserted we were able to play more man, combos of cover 2 with mixture of man, or dropping Biggie off and having essentially 2 softies in coverage, and our Blitzing was better wit Maston.

When Jones was brought in in final game, and 3 play-off games it completed things and allowed us even more man to man work...Just because you didn't see us utilize press coverage much didn't mean our overall coverages didn't change...we made a huge switch in what we did over last 7..8 games...and gave up yards....so what...how many TD's did we give up??....

Are you totally going to ignore what I said about the WDF? Yes we didn't give up many TD's but not all of that was due to the defense. Our offense dominated TOP and field position in the WSF and Grey Cup.

Giving up yardage is a R. Hall trait. It doesn't always work out and the proof of that is his career history. Giving up yardage often loses TOP and field position for the offense. Not always but often.

Oct 19: 37 - 33 in favor of Calgary. BLM 66.7% completion,  337 yards and 3 TD's
Oct 25: 29-28 in favor of Winnipeg. BLM  72.1!% completion, 350 yards and 4 TD's

That's 7 passing TD's given up in the last 2 regular season games. FOUR in the last game of the year with a 1 point victory for the Bombers.

So I don't buy all of your comments about how much more or how much sooner the " evolution " started. R. Hall has been around a long time. I give him credit for the final result of 2019 but I have doubts about the longer term evolution you suggest.







Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 13, 2019, 03:42:22 PM
Are you totally going to ignore what I said about the WDF? Yes we didn't give up many TD's but not all of that was due to the defense. Our offense dominated TOP and field position in the WSF and Grey Cup.

Giving up yardage is a R. Hall trait. It doesn't always work out and the proof of that is his career history. Giving up yardage often loses TOP and field position for the offense. Not always but often.

Oct 19: 37 - 33 in favor of Calgary. BLM 66.7% completion,  337 yards and 3 TD's
Oct 25: 29-28 in favor of Winnipeg. BLM  72.1!% completion, 350 yards and 4 TD's

That's 7 passing TD's given up in the last 2 regular season games. FOUR in the last game of the year with a 1 point victory for the Bombers.

So I don't buy all of your comments about how much more or how much sooner the " evolution " started. R. Hall has been around a long time. I give him credit for the final result of 2019 but I have doubts about the longer term evolution you suggest.







Could care less what you buy truth be told. And you can say it evolved over last 3 games if you choose...it's your choice...and I will disagree, and will also disagree that a team that has success doing something will revert to old ways of less success...For one Osh won't let that happen


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 13, 2019, 03:44:25 PM
Nichols, unknown recovery.  Collaros, unknown durability.  Anyone else available, unknown in our system/group.

Bad decision to have to make.  Make the wrong one... well, at least Walters has 4 more years on his deal.  Hopefully Streveler takes a step forward in his development... I do like the way he was utilized in conjunction with Collaros, taking a lot of the risk plays for concussion off Zach's plate...  not sure Nichols would share reps as easily as Zach did, although after watching the success it created this post season, he might be more open to it, and prolonging his career...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 13, 2019, 03:45:31 PM
I can?t believe we just won the Grey cup of people are calling for the head of the guy who designed the defence that won us the cup?!? Unreal.  Guarantee you the mike Oshea that I know doesn?t make a change a DC. We ll be getting a new OC and I m not sure Buck is a slam dunk for that . We ll see what MOS does but I m thinking he likes guys who are experienced at the position not a newbie to it. There was a reason Lapo and Richie got their jobs in the first place.

I've called for his head since TC 2017. Looking at the broader picture not just the win.

Posters called for the head of Nichols because he didn't win the Grey Cup when he led in the play offs.

The narrow view is easy. Winning or losing is never the result of one player, one coach or even one game. On a given day, perhaps that one player or coach does one better thing than his opponent. In the long run history generally gives you a better idea of what to expect.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 13, 2019, 03:46:41 PM
Could care less what you buy truth be told. And you can say it evolved over last 3 games if you choose...it's your choice...and I will disagree, and will also disagree that a team that has success doing something will revert to old ways of less success...For one Osh won't let that happen

Same back at you. I presented a respectful factual amount of information not just an unfounded opinion.

You took a bit of the low road in your response. There was no need for that.

Saying MOS won't let regress happen? It happened several times in 2019. Not to mention dropping from 2nd in 2017 to 3rd in 2018 and 2019 with less wins.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 13, 2019, 03:52:44 PM
Same back at you. I presented a respectful factual amount of information not just an unfounded opinion.

You took a bit of the low road in your response. There was no need for that.
U can look at it that way if you want...low road...but pulling up stats from a couple games is hardly a decisive factual amount of information..I look at the whole ball of wax...not pieces here and there, and from experience from playing, coaching and now prepping graduates for the next level


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 13, 2019, 04:56:14 PM
Nichols, unknown recovery.  Collaros, unknown durability.  Anyone else available, unknown in our system/group.

Bad decision to have to make.  Make the wrong one... well, at least Walters has 4 more years on his deal.  Hopefully Streveler takes a step forward in his development... I do like the way he was utilized in conjunction with Collaros, taking a lot of the risk plays for concussion off Zach's plate...  not sure Nichols would share reps as easily as Zach did, although after watching the success it created this post season, he might be more open to it, and prolonging his career...

If Nichols is a rational person, I think he realizes he is not going to be an elite superstar QB. He's in his 30s, has lost significant time due to injury, and has now won a championship when a decent passing and conservatively managed offense is complemented with a very strong running QB. He should reflect on that and welcome the opportunity to accept the best possible role suited to him, even if that means a reduced role, in order to keep winning these championships.

Nichols is a smart, reasonable guy who looked like he had a great time at the parade (see: white guy moves). I'm sure he would like to break it down again on another Tuesday afternoon in November.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 13, 2019, 05:18:15 PM
John Hodge@JohnDHodge

Chris Streveler has booked several NFL workouts. #Bombers #CFL #ForTheW #CFLFA @3DownNation


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on December 13, 2019, 05:22:58 PM
I think there's a good chance an NFL team signs him. He can be a Taysom Hill guy and running QBs have never been taken more seriously in the NFL than they are right now. He's certainly not at all an NFL caliber passer, but neither is Hill and some team will probably try and copy that model.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 13, 2019, 05:52:39 PM
U can look at it that way if you want...low road...but pulling up stats from a couple games is hardly a decisive factual amount of information..I look at the whole ball of wax...not pieces here and there, and from experience from playing, coaching and now prepping graduates for the next level

The previous 4 games before the back to back with Calgary.

Montreal: 35 Wpg - 24  Montreal Win
Regina: 21 Regina - 6 Wpg         Loss
Hamilton: 33 Hamilton - 13 Wpg  Loss
Montreal: 38 Montreal - 37 Wpg  Loss

So we lost 5 out of our last 9. Won 2 out of our last 6 regular season games. Gave up 28 or more points in 4 of those losses.

That's hardly a couple of games although I didn't originally post it before.  I could look at yardage and TD's given up etc but it's moot at this point.

As I said, winning or losing is never entirely the fault of the defense or the offense. It does show the longer pattern as it relates to R. Hall.

No doubt no change will be made. I can't think of a current possible candidate other than internally and that's not MOS's way.

So. Here's hoping R. Hall sticks to more of his last 4 games then the rest of the previous record.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 13, 2019, 05:55:30 PM
I think there's a good chance an NFL team signs him. He can be a Taysom Hill guy and running QBs have never been taken more seriously in the NFL than they are right now. He's certainly not at all an NFL caliber passer, but neither is Hill and some team will probably try and copy that model.

That would certainly be a loss for Winnipeg.  I guess it might depend on what team makes him an offer and whether there is some sort of signing bonus.

If BLM couldn't get a deal worth taking, I'd be surprised if Streveler does. That said, you never know why some get a chance and others don't. The fact he has unique skills helps his chances.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 13, 2019, 05:59:40 PM
That would certainly be a loss for Winnipeg.  I guess it might depend on what team makes him an offer and whether there is some sort of signing bonus.

If BLM couldn't get a deal worth taking, I'd be surprised if Streveler does. That said, you never know why some get a chance and others don't. The fact he has unique skills helps his chances.

There was something hinkey with the BLM / NFL situation... can't remember what, but it seems like BLM needs to be the #1 guy...  I don't think Streveler is in that boat.

I wouldn't be surprised if NFL teams take a look, and then tell him to take another 1 year deal in Winnipeg to see how he progresses...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In Edmonton on December 13, 2019, 06:13:50 PM
That would certainly be a loss for Winnipeg.  I guess it might depend on what team makes him an offer and whether there is some sort of signing bonus.

If BLM couldn't get a deal worth taking, I'd be surprised if Streveler does. That said, you never know why some get a chance and others don't. The fact he has unique skills helps his chances.

I think that the deal ($$$ and playing time) that BLM was looking for will be quite different than the deal Streveler will be looking for. I kinda, sorta, maybe wish him well!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 13, 2019, 06:16:39 PM
No doubt about it our D was up and down all year. I think having Hecht was good part of that. I don't like the prevent system, it leave the D on the field to long. It also let opposing QB's get into a rhythm. When we played aggressive D like the last game of the regular season, and the playoffs our D is much better. I would love to see Hall have D play that way a lot more in 2020.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 13, 2019, 06:19:57 PM
Fair enough comment about BLM versus Streveler. The NFL has never been kind to taking good looks at CFL QB's. Whether that's changing I don't really know.

We're seeing more of those types of QB's coming out of college so they have lots to choose from besides Streveler. He has more pro experience at the moment. He's also nursing an ankle injury so timing of workouts is not particularly in his favor.

He can choose to reach free agency which gives him more time to explore NFL opportunities.

He may get a substantial offer from Ottawa for example to be the starter.

I wish him well but I'd really like him back. That changes the dynamic on offense considerably for Winnipeg.

If he leaves than neither Nichols or Collaros might not be the right choice for us. Masoli or Arbuckle might then move closer to the top of interest?

It's a wait and see game until someone gets signed somewhere.





Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 13, 2019, 06:24:20 PM
No doubt about it our D was up and down all year. I think having Hecht was good part of that. I don't like the prevent system, it leave the D on the field to long. It also let opposing QB's get into a rhythm. When we played aggressive D like the last game of the regular season, and the playoffs our D is much better. I would love to see Hall have D play that way a lot more in 2020.

There are a substantial group of key Bomber defenders that are potential free agents. Jefferson and Rose already have NFL workouts scheduled. Nevis, Thomas, Taylor and Sayles haven't re-signed yet and we released Kongbo for his NFL workouts.

We're going to see a different team in 2020. It may be better or worse. No way to tell until we see who we lose or gain and then it's a wait and see how it goes.

No real reason to think we'll lose the majority of those free agents but losing Jefferson and / or Rose wouldn't be good.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 13, 2019, 06:29:08 PM
A little to much panic for December 20th, Walters has 50 something days to sign our FA's, and get ready for FA. in February. All teams will lose players just like us.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 13, 2019, 06:30:39 PM
Now back to the topic, was Lapo's hands tied a bit with Nichols playing QB.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: jeremy q public on December 13, 2019, 06:34:01 PM
I've called for his head since TC 2017. Looking at the broader picture not just the win.

Posters called for the head of Nichols because he didn't win the Grey Cup when he led in the play offs.

The narrow view is easy. Winning or losing is never the result of one player, one coach or even one game. On a given day, perhaps that one player or coach does one better thing than his opponent. In the long run history generally gives you a better idea of what to expect.



The fact that you were wrong in the past and remain wrong today at least makes you consistent, but it doesn't change the fact that you are wrong. It's not like we won the Grey Cup in spite of the defence, the defence was a big part of our victory. And it's not just one win, we had to get there first, and the journey included playoff games in which the defence had multiple goal line stands that definitely carried us. We had 39 total points scored against us in 3 playoff games.

No, this isn't about one coach or one game. But the defence had a pretty good regular season too, and you have to evaluate the coach based on the results.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 13, 2019, 06:34:48 PM
A little to much panic for December 20th, Walters has 50 something days to sign our FA's, and get ready for FA. in February. All teams will lose players just like us.

IF we have a bunch of unused cap space due to the Nichols injury etc, I suspect we will get some dominoes to fall before the January 1st official end of the 2019 season.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 13, 2019, 06:46:26 PM
IF we have a bunch of unused cap space due to the Nichols injury etc, I suspect we will get some dominoes to fall before the January 1st official end of the 2019 season.

Agreed. We also know that Walters probably has a few of deals done already that he will announce early in January.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 13, 2019, 06:53:24 PM
The fact that you were wrong in the past and remain wrong today at least makes you consistent, but it doesn't change the fact that you are wrong. It's not like we won the Grey Cup in spite of the defence, the defence was a big part of our victory. And it's not just one win, we had to get there first, and the journey included playoff games in which the defence had multiple goal line stands that definitely carried us. We had 39 total points scored against us in 3 playoff games.

No, this isn't about one coach or one game. But the defence had a pretty good regular season too, and you have to evaluate the coach based on the results.

Wrong in your opinion. I've already said that defense was outstanding in the play offs. That doesn't mean they had a good 2nd half of the season. 4 - 5 win loss. Did you even bother to read everything I said?

That's indisputable. It that's your definition of a good regular season, then we have different evaluations.

Read the posts before the play off run. Based on the " season " not many felt we'd make it to the Grey Cup let alone win. Those opinions were based on the evaluation of our talent and normal systems. That included at times playing to not lose rather than win on both offense and defense. That didn't always work. Not knowing until game 18 whether Collaros would survive injury free throughout the play offs. Many factors at play.

OTOH, I said we would win based on many things which included the situations of all the teams we would face and the health of our team. I think I may have even suggested we'd win if Strev started all the games.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Doublezero on December 13, 2019, 06:59:42 PM
I think there's a good chance an NFL team signs him. He can be a Taysom Hill guy and running QBs have never been taken more seriously in the NFL than they are right now. He's certainly not at all an NFL caliber passer, but neither is Hill and some team will probably try and copy that model.
Agreed he'll likely be gone. That'll leave many fans unhappy as he is a unique QB talent. I'd like to know why Bombers didn't extend him last off-season. Did they try and he said no? Or did they just not bother? I heard one radio interview with him last off-season and he said Bombers had not approached him about any contract stuff, he still had the option year ahead. If that is true it was a big oversight as they might have been able to lock him up.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 13, 2019, 06:59:46 PM
IF we have a bunch of unused cap space due to the Nichols injury etc, I suspect we will get some dominoes to fall before the January 1st official end of the 2019 season.

No that Walters and O'Shea have been announced I agree we'll see a few more re-signings as early as next week. Quite possibly S. Bryant and Hardrick on offense. Nevis and Sayles on defense.

Jefferson and Rose might take a little longer for them to evaluate NFL deals.

QB's is anybodies guess when that gets resolved.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 13, 2019, 07:00:55 PM
Agreed he'll likely be gone. That'll leave many fans unhappy as he is a unique QB talent. I'd like to know why Bombers didn't extend him last off-season. Did they try and he said no? Or did they just not bother? I heard one radio interview with him last off-season and he said Bombers had not approached him about any contract stuff, he still had the option year ahead. If that is true it was a big oversight as they might have been able to lock him up.

You can't always extend every 2nd year player under contract even if you want to.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Donny C on December 13, 2019, 07:05:13 PM
I'm not going to read all 39 pages, so I'll just cut to the chase...I'm only here to tell someone they are wrong (how else can this topic have 39 pages?)


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: ModAdmin on December 13, 2019, 07:11:59 PM
test


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 13, 2019, 07:29:27 PM
Fair enough comment about BLM versus Streveler. The NFL has never been kind to taking good looks at CFL QB's. Whether that's changing I don't really know.

We're seeing more of those types of QB's coming out of college so they have lots to choose from besides Streveler. He has more pro experience at the moment. He's also nursing an ankle injury so timing of workouts is not particularly in his favor.

He can choose to reach free agency which gives him more time to explore NFL opportunities.

He may get a substantial offer from Ottawa for example to be the starter.

I wish him well but I'd really like him back. That changes the dynamic on offense considerably for Winnipeg.

If he leaves than neither Nichols or Collaros might not be the right choice for us. Masoli or Arbuckle might then move closer to the top of interest?

It's a wait and see game until someone gets signed somewhere.


I disagree, losing Streveler would be difficult but I don't think it alters the Bombers plan as to who starts in any way, it simply forces them to re-evaluate the supplement that Strev. provided to their running game and eliminates his specialty packages as no other QB will be able to execute them.  I expect without Strev. they would continue on with the "next man up" mantra going with McGuire in a more traditional backup QB and short yardage role.

This is exactly the kind of adversity the Bombers can expect to face this off-season, last year it was the loss of Chungh and Goosen that had most fans in a tither, this year it could be the loss of Streveler, Jefferson, Rose or LaPo that triggers it.  Until the puck drops next season we really don't know how any of it will work out.





Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blueraid on December 13, 2019, 08:43:57 PM
Tired of hearing about players entertaining leaving after a Cup win...Part of winning in the CFL BUT sure doesn't do much for continuity


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 13, 2019, 08:47:52 PM
I disagree, losing Streveler would be difficult but I don't think it alters the Bombers plan as to who starts in any way, it simply forces them to re-evaluate the supplement that Strev. provided to their running game and eliminates his specialty packages as no other QB will be able to execute them.  I expect without Strev. they would continue on with the "next man up" mantra going with McGuire in a more traditional backup QB and short yardage role.

This is exactly the kind of adversity the Bombers can expect to face this off-season, last year it was the loss of Chungh and Goosen that had most fans in a tither, this year it could be the loss of Streveler, Jefferson, Rose or LaPo that triggers it.  Until the puck drops next season we really don't know how any of it will work out.





Can't say that's an incorrect opinion. Rosters change every season and that means other decisions are made or might be made. That's all I'm saying is that may influence their choice of selecting a QB. It's not a given that they will and MOS tends to stick with who brought him to the dance.

IMO that means he will want Nichols back as his 1st choice. Whether that works out falls into the wait and see aspect of free agency. As some have suggested Nichols may get a bigger offer in Ottawa and follow Lapo.

While I don't think that happens, it's certainly possible. I sure wouldn't bet money where most of the free agent QB's end up. Just something to watch and to see how many re-sign before free agency. Otherwise day 1 and 2 will be stressful. lol


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 13, 2019, 08:51:07 PM
Tired of hearing about players entertaining leaving after a Cup win...Part of winning in the CFL BUT sure doesn't do much for continuity

The reality is that they also leave teams every off season with free agency whether they finish 1st or last. Look at how many players changed teams before TC 2019.

1 year contracts and bidding wars are just something to deal with. Winning the Grey Cup does make Winnipeg a team that will attract players even if we lose some that showcased during 2019.

Our roster seems to get better season upon season in the last several years. Hard to keep a stable roster though.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: In Motion on December 13, 2019, 09:02:53 PM
I totally understand a CFL player trying to get an NFL contract whenever there is an opportunity.
However, the movement of players, switching from one team to another in our own league (and in the NHL and NBA too), is one of the weaknesses and sad things about modern day pro sports. It hurts CFL attendance too, I'm sure.

For the younger fans, can you imagine keeping this same Bomber team intact for 5 years or longer? That's how it was in decades past, and I certainly miss that.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: In Motion on December 13, 2019, 09:08:35 PM
We can win another Cup with a healthy Collaros, and we can win another Cup with a healthy Nicholls.
Not sure if that Winnipeg Sun article from 2 days ago has been posted on this thread, but it sounded like
Collaros and his wife just want the best situation for his career (and Toronto ain't it!). They can always move
back east in a few years.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue72 on December 13, 2019, 09:44:08 PM
Nichols still belongs to the Bombers until FA starts so why couldn't they trade him to Ottawa and get something for him if they are thinking Collaros or who ever else?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on December 13, 2019, 10:24:53 PM
IMO The Bombers sign either Nichols or Collaros (I don't really care which) and the one they don't sign goes to Ottawa. I just can't see either of them going to Toronto with an unproven HC.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 14, 2019, 12:00:45 AM
IMO The Bombers sign either Nichols or Collaros (I don't really care which) and the one they don't sign goes to Ottawa. I just can't see either of them going to Toronto with an unproven HC.

Especially with Dinwiddie now Argo HC, likely he will go after Arbuckle.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on December 14, 2019, 01:10:12 AM
Especially with Dinwiddie now Argo HC, likely he will go after Arbuckle.
ya but does Arbuckle even want to go there?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 14, 2019, 01:20:18 AM
ya but does Arbuckle even want to go there?

Offer him $300,000 plus to start, that's more than the Stamps could offer him to stand on the sidelines watching Bo perform.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on December 14, 2019, 01:34:31 AM
Offer him $300,000 plus to start, that's more than the Stamps could offer him to stand on the sidelines watching Bo perform.
How about the same thing here.Would you rather come here?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on December 14, 2019, 02:03:47 AM
No that Walters and O'Shea have been announced I agree we'll see a few more re-signings as early as next week. Quite possibly S. Bryant and Hardrick on offense. Nevis and Sayles on defense.

Jefferson and Rose might take a little longer for them to evaluate NFL deals.

QB's is anybodies guess when that gets resolved.

Walters said today that they have a couple more signings done that they are waiting to announce and that have officially used up their 2019 cap space.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: ModAdmin on December 14, 2019, 02:12:09 AM
I'm all for kidding around but could we please show respect for people's names by spelling names correctly...especially those of  current and former Blue Bombers?  Thanks.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: ModAdmin on December 14, 2019, 05:07:36 AM
Taylor Allen
@TaylorAllen31
11h
Mike O'Shea
said he feels QB Zach Collaros would like to return to the #Bombers. The team would lose their 1st round pick to the Argos if they sign Collaros and GM Kyle Walters said they're in a position where they could afford to lose the pick to get him signed. #wfp


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on December 14, 2019, 05:21:15 AM
Taylor Allen
@TaylorAllen31
11h
Mike O'Shea
said he feels QB Zach Collaros would like to return to the #Bombers. The team would lose their 1st round pick to the Argos if they sign Collaros and GM Kyle Walters said they're in a position where they could afford to lose the pick to get him signed. #wfp

Whoa.

Does this count as foreshadowing or is it too literal to count?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 14, 2019, 07:49:22 AM
So. Here's hoping R. Hall sticks to more of his last 4 games then the rest of the previous record.

It sounds a bit crazy, but Hall laying the groundwork of the iffy D mid-season helped to catch our opponents off-guard (as booch said) in the playoffs.  Hall's book is called Smoke & Mirrors.  I think not only does Hall plan smoke & mirrors per game, he plans them between games, and between months.  I guarantee it.  (So does Lapo, BTW.)

I'm not saying Hall wanted his D to suck or wanted to lose; but there's an aspect of perhaps not tipping your hand too soon.  You have to keep something in reserve.  Between those losing mid-season games and the playoffs, he certainly showed he had dry powder in reserve!!

The fact that you were wrong in the past and remain wrong today at least makes you consistent, but it doesn't change the fact that you are wrong. It's not like we won the Grey Cup in spite of the defence, the defence was a big part of our victory. And it's not just one win, we had to get there first, and the journey included playoff games in which the defence had multiple goal line stands that definitely carried us. We had 39 total points scored against us in 3 playoff games.

I agree more with booch and jeremy.  It's not like you're wrong, BinBC, it's just that I'm not sure you focus on the D as much as booch (or I) do.  When you see SSK blow their zillion red-zone opportunities, you see it as their O failing.  We see it as the WPG D stepping up and stopping them.  In this particular instance, if you watch our D over and over, intently, in the WDF, you should start to see how our D was lights out on those last 2 critical SSK possessions in the red zone (and more).  Pressure, coverage(!!), hip-pockets, SY stands.  Hall had them coached up to perfection (especially the way we stopped SY in the entire post-season, often with only 6-7 defenders), and the players executed even better.

IMO that means he will want Nichols back as his 1st choice. Whether that works out falls into the wait and see aspect of free agency. As some have suggested Nichols may get a bigger offer in Ottawa and follow Lapo.

I'm not sure Nichols will get superstar offers from anywhere.  The glut of new apparent-starter talent from '19 will depress QB raises and offers.  The whole league knows Nichols as the "game manager" and he's not flashy and isn't the huge fan draw.  Just look how few fan #15 jerseys there are at IGF!  He's like the least loved winning QB in WPG history.  Now pretend you're OTT.  Your fans are pissed off, and they abandoned the home games for the last 4-5 games -- something that's never happened since Redblack inception.  If you want to fire up your fans and get those ST renewals and walk-ups, you need a flashy QB with buzz.  That's not Nichols!  If they hire Nichols, some people will think "oh no, it could be another Davis-esque year!".  They'll be wrong, but they might think it.

If I'm OTT, I'm going after whatever buzz-causing QBs I can get my hands on.  Masoli, Arbuckle, Strev, Evans.  Or you know who else would fill that job perfectly?  How about the dude who just won the GC?  Collaros to OTT would be huge buzz and an instant fan favorite.  So I think the odds Nichols goes to OTT is less than anyone thinks, as literally the only thing going for it is Lapo likes/knows Nichols.

Whereas WPG keeping Nichols costs us nothing.  Some fans will continue to mumble under their breaths, but no one is dropping their ST because it's another year of Nichols!  Even better: I don't see how Nichols asks for a big raise for 2020.

Mike O'Shea[/b] said he feels QB Zach Collaros would like to return to the #Bombers. The team would lose their 1st round pick to the Argos if they sign Collaros and GM Kyle Walters said they're in a position where they could afford to lose the pick to get him signed. #wfp

That's what some of us said weeks ago.  This year's FRDP is gravy and no one will miss it if we lose it.  Still not convinced Collaros in WPG is going to happen, but all the public chatter about it is certainly making it look more likely than it did 2 weeks ago.  I'd welcome Collaros at a reasonable price in a heartbeat! ... with a solid #2 backup!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 14, 2019, 03:18:34 PM
It sounds a bit crazy, but Hall laying the groundwork of the iffy D mid-season helped to catch our opponents off-guard (as booch said) in the playoffs.  Hall's book is called Smoke & Mirrors.  I think not only does Hall plan smoke & mirrors per game, he plans them between games, and between months.  I guarantee it.  (So does Lapo, BTW.)

I'm not saying Hall wanted his D to suck or wanted to lose; but there's an aspect of perhaps not tipping your hand too soon.  You have to keep something in reserve.  Between those losing mid-season games and the playoffs, he certainly showed he had dry powder in reserve!!

I agree more with booch and jeremy.  It's not like you're wrong, BinBC, it's just that I'm not sure you focus on the D as much as booch (or I) do.  When you see SSK blow their zillion red-zone opportunities, you see it as their O failing.  We see it as the WPG D stepping up and stopping them.  In this particular instance, if you watch our D over and over, intently, in the WDF, you should start to see how our D was lights out on those last 2 critical SSK possessions in the red zone (and more).  Pressure, coverage(!!), hip-pockets, SY stands.  Hall had them coached up to perfection (especially the way we stopped SY in the entire post-season, often with only 6-7 defenders), and the players executed even better.

I'm not sure Nichols will get superstar offers from anywhere.  The glut of new apparent-starter talent from '19 will depress QB raises and offers.  The whole league knows Nichols as the "game manager" and he's not flashy and isn't the huge fan draw.  Just look how few fan #15 jerseys there are at IGF!  He's like the least loved winning QB in WPG history.  Now pretend you're OTT.  Your fans are pissed off, and they abandoned the home games for the last 4-5 games -- something that's never happened since Redblack inception.  If you want to fire up your fans and get those ST renewals and walk-ups, you need a flashy QB with buzz.  That's not Nichols!  If they hire Nichols, some people will think "oh no, it could be another Davis-esque year!".  They'll be wrong, but they might think it.

If I'm OTT, I'm going after whatever buzz-causing QBs I can get my hands on.  Masoli, Arbuckle, Strev, Evans.  Or you know who else would fill that job perfectly?  How about the dude who just won the GC?  Collaros to OTT would be huge buzz and an instant fan favorite.  So I think the odds Nichols goes to OTT is less than anyone thinks, as literally the only thing going for it is Lapo likes/knows Nichols.

Whereas WPG keeping Nichols costs us nothing.  Some fans will continue to mumble under their breaths, but no one is dropping their ST because it's another year of Nichols!  Even better: I don't see how Nichols asks for a big raise for 2020.

That's what some of us said weeks ago.  This year's FRDP is gravy and no one will miss it if we lose it.  Still not convinced Collaros in WPG is going to happen, but all the public chatter about it is certainly making it look more likely than it did 2 weeks ago.  I'd welcome Collaros at a reasonable price in a heartbeat! ... with a solid #2 backup!


I re-watch every game at least one more time. There is some truth in the " smoke and mirrors " for every coach let alone on defense. Adjustments and new formations as the play book is adjusted season to season, game to game. It's influenced by each opponents health on game day.

I watch the defense intently. Otherwise why would I complain about where I see problems?

You can feel the defense played lights out for the WDF. Doesn't change the fact one iota that we were one play from OT. In some instances the defense stopped their offense. In some instances their offense stopped their offense.

That happens in every game. You can't paint it all hail the defense in that particular game.

Fault could also be placed on our offense that didn't score more.

The game was close. We played better but that doesn't always guarantee winning. Too many folks ok with giving up 450 yards just because we win. It's a systemic problem.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: buckzumhoff on December 14, 2019, 03:36:45 PM
Taylor Allen
@TaylorAllen31
11h
Mike O'Shea
said he feels QB Zach Collaros would like to return to the #Bombers. The team would lose their 1st round pick to the Argos if they sign Collaros and GM Kyle Walters said they're in a position where they could afford to lose the pick to get him signed. #wfp


I hope they resign him . That would be good news. Give up a first round pick that's a fair trade. we need Collaros, Keep Nichols too if we can.   Im pretty sure you can keep 3 quarterbacks on every team.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 14, 2019, 04:04:12 PM
I wish they would decide on an OC soon... its been, what, a day sine MOS got his deal?  What's the holdup ;)

Once the OC is in place, then the QB question gets a lot simpler...  with or without Streveler (pending his NFL look), we need a number one guy and have McGuire ready for that number 2 slot...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 14, 2019, 05:18:42 PM
I'm not sure if giving up a 1st round pick is in the cards. It might be if there was less concern about Collaros and his concussion injury history. Other injuries would be easier to deal with in theory.

We only have one 1st round pick this year compared to 2 last year. Kongbo was released to try and get an NFL deal and he was our extra 1st round pick last year. We may get him back but when and if are TBD at this point.

If we end up losing Wolitarsky as well that's 2 starting Canadians lost. That would be at least a short term concern which could be resolved in free agency. To that end giving up the 1st round pick might be alright.

I don't think anyone questions that Collaros can be a good QB. It's just the question about the risk of further concussions to his long term health. That's something the doctors need to decide ( not Collaros himself per se ).

Nichols has different injury history issues as well. We've heard that he might not be ready for TC but we've also heard the injury will not be limiting .

Hopefully this is all decided before free agency. Wouldn't like to get into a bidding war or find ourselves left out in the cold as QB's sign elsewhere potentially.







Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BigBomberFan on December 14, 2019, 05:43:09 PM
Here's my take on it: now that LaPolice has gone to Ottawa, he's obviously going to want to work with players that he has a good rapport with. If I were LaPolice, I'd want Collaros, because Nichols and Collaros have similar styles and both had hovered around the 200 yards per game mark or so with the Bombers, but Collaros took us to a championship and obviously has the proven goods to be able to win when it matters. And he can complete the deep ball as needed to move the game along at crucial times, whereas Nichols hasn't really ever solidified the confidence in the deep threat that I've needed to have in the past.

The last thing that I'd want is to give any competing team an edge, and if Ottawa are in the gutter right now, I wouldn't want to give them a hand up by giving them Collaros.....I'd rather that they have Nichols. With Nichols, they could be an alright team, but with Collaros, I feel that they'd be nearing the quarterbacking of Harris once again.

O'Shea re-signing with the team would obviously point to what one would assume that he'd have a loyalty to Nichols, going back several seasons to when Willy wasn't getting the job done, Nichols' success may very well have saved O'Shea's job at that point. The question is how much loyalty O'Shea would have to that versus how concerned he would be about fielding the best possible team and keeping the players that put him in the best position to continue on to what could potentially be a dynasty era.

The loyal man would go with Nichols, however, the wise man would go with Collaros.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on December 14, 2019, 05:55:41 PM
I'm not sure if giving up a 1st round pick is in the cards. It might be if there was less concern about Collaros and his concussion injury history. Other injuries would be easier to deal with in theory.

We only have one 1st round pick this year compared to 2 last year. Kongbo was released to try and get an NFL deal and he was our extra 1st round pick last year. We may get him back but when and if are TBD at this point.

If we end up losing Wolitarsky as well that's 2 starting Canadians lost. That would be at least a short term concern which could be resolved in free agency. To that end giving up the 1st round pick might be alright.

I don't think anyone questions that Collaros can be a good QB. It's just the question about the risk of further concussions to his long term health. That's something the doctors need to decide ( not Collaros himself per se ).

Nichols has different injury history issues as well. We've heard that he might not be ready for TC but we've also heard the injury will not be limiting .

Hopefully this is all decided before free agency. Wouldn't like to get into a bidding war or find ourselves left out in the cold as QB's sign elsewhere potentially.







Woli rarely has stated he's already working towards a new deal. Nothing is for sure until the contract is signed but he's not someone I anticipate losing.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on December 14, 2019, 06:53:14 PM
If the Bombers really want Collaros they have until February 12 to sign him. If I'm The Bombers after the holiday season I would bring him and his wife to Winnipeg and get Andrew Harris to show them around, maybe take them to a Jets game. If he's the first choice do whatever you have to to sign him. As for losing the first round draft pick The Bombers have done well in later rounds so I'm not worried about it.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 14, 2019, 09:41:15 PM
If the Bombers really want Collaros they have until February 12 to sign him. If I'm The Bombers after the holiday season I would bring him and his wife to Winnipeg and get Andrew Harris to show them around, maybe take them to a Jets game. If he's the first choice do whatever you have to to sign him. As for losing the first round draft pick The Bombers have done well in later rounds so I'm not worried about it.

If Collaros wants to be here, and Walters / MOS / Buck want him here, I have no doubt that they will get a deal done without the tour of the city...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on December 14, 2019, 09:53:09 PM
If Collaros wants to be here, and Walters / MOS / Buck want him here, I have no doubt that they will get a deal done without the tour of the city...
I agree no point to wine and dine. Either he wants to be here or he does not. We are past the schmoozing stage with this guy.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: New_Earth_Mud on December 14, 2019, 11:42:41 PM
If Collaros wants to be here, and Walters / MOS / Buck want him here, I have no doubt that they will get a deal done without the tour of the city...


This from you?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: ModAdmin on December 15, 2019, 12:39:51 AM
I agree no point to wine and dine. Either he wants to be here or he does not. We are past the schmoozing stage with this guy.

I think the wining and dining would be done for Zach's wife.  To let her see what Winnipeg is all about.  I hope the organization does show her around town.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: pjrocksmb on December 15, 2019, 12:50:01 AM
I think the wining and dining would be done for Zach's wife.  To let her see what Winnipeg is all about.  I hope the organization does show her around town.
agree


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on December 15, 2019, 01:01:14 AM
The last time he was here all he saw was his hotel room and the stadium and his wife hasn't been here at all. We're not Southern Ontario but we're not that bad either. Let them see that.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: mondo3 on December 15, 2019, 01:03:16 AM
Perhaps best if she doesn?t visit here at this time of the year - she might think it?s similar to Ontario winters


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: pjrocksmb on December 15, 2019, 01:06:04 AM
I'm not sure if giving up a 1st round pick is in the cards. It might be if there was less concern about Collaros and his concussion injury history. Other injuries would be easier to deal with in theory.

We only have one 1st round pick this year compared to 2 last year. Kongbo was released to try and get an NFL deal and he was our extra 1st round pick last year. We may get him back but when and if are TBD at this point.

If we end up losing Wolitarsky as well that's 2 starting Canadians lost. That would be at least a short term concern which could be resolved in free agency. To that end giving up the 1st round pick might be alright.

I don't think anyone questions that Collaros can be a good QB. It's just the question about the risk of further concussions to his long term health. That's something the doctors need to decide ( not Collaros himself per se ).

Nichols has different injury history issues as well. We've heard that he might not be ready for TC but we've also heard the injury will not be limiting .

Hopefully this is all decided before free agency. Wouldn't like to get into a bidding war or find ourselves left out in the cold as QB's sign elsewhere potentially.
1st rough pick is a lot to give up
I don't want to overpay, enough QBs that we will get a decent one


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 15, 2019, 02:28:35 AM
I still want to know, is it a pick if we ever sign him, or just extend him before FA.  It doesn't seem reasonable for it to be a forever condition.  If he is allowed to hit FA, then Toronto has a chance to get him back, and if we then sign him, there shouldn't be compensation...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on December 15, 2019, 03:20:39 AM
I still want to know, is it a pick if we ever sign him, or just extend him before FA.  It doesn't seem reasonable for it to be a forever condition.  If he is allowed to hit FA, then Toronto has a chance to get him back, and if we then sign him, there shouldn't be compensation...

It doesn't matter. If we're going to sign him, it will be before FA starts.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 15, 2019, 04:46:21 AM
1st rough pick is a lot to give up
I don't want to overpay, enough QBs that we will get a decent one

What's a rough pick?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 15, 2019, 06:46:08 AM
What's a rough pick?

Ekakitie


 ;D
 :D
 ;D


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 15, 2019, 06:50:30 AM
Fault could also be placed on our offense that didn't score more.

The game was close. We played better but that doesn't always guarantee winning. Too many folks ok with giving up 450 yards just because we win. It's a systemic problem.

I fully agree our O should have scored more.  Not just the WDF but also many games this year.  Most of the close games were lost because the O couldn't get more than a couple of 1st downs (if any) right at the end.

I'm perfectly fine with giving up 750 yards a game if we always walk away with a win!  If we had some magical D that couldn't stop beans between the 20's but never allowed a TD, I could fully live with that!  Consistency is key, though.

But enough of hypotheticals... if the D gives up 300-450 a game but limits the scoring, and our O can keep pace and win, I don't see what the big problem is.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 15, 2019, 02:58:43 PM
I fully agree our O should have scored more.  Not just the WDF but also many games this year.  Most of the close games were lost because the O couldn't get more than a couple of 1st downs (if any) right at the end.

I'm perfectly fine with giving up 750 yards a game if we always walk away with a win!  If we had some magical D that couldn't stop beans between the 20's but never allowed a TD, I could fully live with that!  Consistency is key, though.

But enough of hypotheticals... if the D gives up 300-450 a game but limits the scoring, and our O can keep pace and win, I don't see what the big problem is.


If you understood field position and TOP maybe you would. How often have we seen the Bombers needing to score at the end of the game or protect the lead while starting instead our 25 yard line.

Then we complain because the opponent knows we'll run which we do and then we're punting. They start about their 40 yard line and kick a FG on the last play?

How soon you forget. Maybe you should re-watch the Argo game or the Rider games we lost.

How are we supposed to score more if we're always starting deep in our end and losing TOP?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: buckzumhoff on December 18, 2019, 10:48:12 PM
I'm sure they will sign both . I don't think Nichols wants to move.  And  BC is paying Reilly 700 k a year plus their two backups.  winnipeg can find a way to keep the qb's  . if Streveller goes to the states then the decision will be easy .


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 19, 2019, 03:38:32 AM
I'm sure they will sign both . I don't think Nichols wants to move.  And  BC is paying Reilly 700 k a year plus their two backups.  winnipeg can find a way to keep the qb's  . if Streveller goes to the states then the decision will be easy .

I'm in full agreement.  Strev gone, still need a legit #2, and Collaros will never last a whole season (and some think the same about Nichols) so it's the perfect setup.  If Strev is back, gets a bit harder, but could still make it work.

The buzz out of the team (and players) in the last 2 months and especially last 3 weeks has hinted both Nichols is back and Collaros could stay.  If they weren't keen on one or the other they'd start dropping hints to get people prepared... If I had to guess which one has priority though, it's Nichols.

Does anyone know when a "deadline" would be for Ambrosie to ditch the 2-QB insanity before we're stuck with it?  One would think they should do something about it before TC...

P.S. Collaros riding in the parade truck, vs back with the boys, means nothing, because I've watched all the GC Saturday and Sunday TSN coverage and web site pressers and it's clear that Collaros had a cold/flu that weekend, and was likely just tired for the parade.  There were various shots of him on the weekend where he's hacking pretty good with a nice phlegmy sound.  That also explains why he seemed so low-energy in his interviews.  Make his GC performance even more amazing!  Thank you Zach!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 19, 2019, 04:58:11 AM
Not sure we would have the money to sign two starting QB's. And which one would be the starting QB?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on December 19, 2019, 07:05:04 AM
Not sure we would have the money to sign two starting QB's. And which one would be the starting QB?

Very good questions!  If it happened, you could start Collaros week 1 as the GC winner and say Nichols is still getting his shoulder up to speed.  Same excuse HAM can give if they keep both Masoli/Evans.  If Collaros has a hot hand, keep playing him.  If he falters, put in Nichols and say it's because he's the #1 guy.

As for money, both guys will have to be put on an SMS diet and be high-incentives, lower salary.  But Strev would probably demand $200k+ anyhow so if he's gone, the total QB spend won't be insanely higher than normal, and surely no higher than BLM+Arbuckle in CGY (which I think will happen).  With all the good "backups" from '19, every team will have to pay up for their #2 or he'll go be #1 somewhere.

I think we may see a lot more situations where teams have a great vet #1 and a great vet #1b or legit young'n #2.  The young'n's and "injury prone" vets will have to accept it or sit on the couch waiting for a mid-season injury phone call.  I really don't see any team except SSK running with just a young'n #1 and no-name #2.  I think the 2-QB limitation and '19 injury experience will force teams to keep 2 legit QBs rather than have a noname #2.  The role/rostering of a SY QB could change also.  Young unproven dev QBs will be the ones that lose out, languishing on the PR, earning much lower $$, and never dressing: or just not hired at all.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BLUEBOMBER on December 19, 2019, 07:13:38 AM
We had Nichols for how many years to win the cup?  And how many years have we had Collaros to win the cup?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 19, 2019, 01:20:26 PM
Very good questions!  If it happened, you could start Collaros week 1 as the GC winner and say Nichols is still getting his shoulder up to speed.  Same excuse HAM can give if they keep both Masoli/Evans.  If Collaros has a hot hand, keep playing him.  If he falters, put in Nichols and say it's because he's the #1 guy.

As for money, both guys will have to be put on an SMS diet and be high-incentives, lower salary.  But Strev would probably demand $200k+ anyhow so if he's gone, the total QB spend won't be insanely higher than normal, and surely no higher than BLM+Arbuckle in CGY (which I think will happen).  With all the good "backups" from '19, every team will have to pay up for their #2 or he'll go be #1 somewhere.

I think we may see a lot more situations where teams have a great vet #1 and a great vet #1b or legit young'n #2.  The young'n's and "injury prone" vets will have to accept it or sit on the couch waiting for a mid-season injury phone call.  I really don't see any team except SSK running with just a young'n #1 and no-name #2.  I think the 2-QB limitation and '19 injury experience will force teams to keep 2 legit QBs rather than have a noname #2.  The role/rostering of a SY QB could change also.  Young unproven dev QBs will be the ones that lose out, languishing on the PR, earning much lower $$, and never dressing: or just not hired at all.


Right, I'm sure both Collaros and Nichols are just dying to be paid less. That would only happen if there is no one else clamouring for their services, which I don't think will be the reality.

Teams aren't going to pony up for backups because if backup QBs can go elsewhere and start and make more money, their original teams are just going to let them do that. If Ottawa or Toronto go hard after Arbuckle as their starter, Calgary isn't going to offer Arbuckle 400k to stay and play second fiddle to BLM.

There's not enough money to go around, and everyone wants to start.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: kkc60 on December 19, 2019, 02:28:10 PM
We had Nichols for how many years to win the cup?  And how many years have we had Collaros to win the cup?
That logic is flawed. Every team is different every year. For all we know, we were a better defense away from winning it 2 or 3 years ago. Or we were a Streveler to Harris completion away from winning last year.

Was Collaros huge for us? Sure. But we have no idea how a full year (including playoffs) of either would have panned out


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 19, 2019, 02:34:55 PM
Very good questions!  If it happened, you could start Collaros week 1 as the GC winner and say Nichols is still getting his shoulder up to speed.  Same excuse HAM can give if they keep both Masoli/Evans.  If Collaros has a hot hand, keep playing him.  If he falters, put in Nichols and say it's because he's the #1 guy.

As for money, both guys will have to be put on an SMS diet and be high-incentives, lower salary.  But Strev would probably demand $200k+ anyhow so if he's gone, the total QB spend won't be insanely higher than normal, and surely no higher than BLM+Arbuckle in CGY (which I think will happen).  With all the good "backups" from '19, every team will have to pay up for their #2 or he'll go be #1 somewhere.

I think we may see a lot more situations where teams have a great vet #1 and a great vet #1b or legit young'n #2.  The young'n's and "injury prone" vets will have to accept it or sit on the couch waiting for a mid-season injury phone call.  I really don't see any team except SSK running with just a young'n #1 and no-name #2.  I think the 2-QB limitation and '19 injury experience will force teams to keep 2 legit QBs rather than have a noname #2.  The role/rostering of a SY QB could change also.  Young unproven dev QBs will be the ones that lose out, languishing on the PR, earning much lower $$, and never dressing: or just not hired at all.


Well it's a beautiful dream, I can never see this happening. I think Nichols and Collaros will want to be paid. Nichols isn't taking a wage roll back to play for the bombers, and Collaros just helped win us our first GC in 29 years.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: bluebeard on December 19, 2019, 03:48:50 PM
If they don't pay Nichols a good contract, I can see him in Ottawa with Lapo.  Both know each other and what the coach wants and what the QB can do.  That is a good fit as Ottawa needs someone like Nichols as they have nothing presently at QB.  The only question remains...will Colloras  stay heathy the whole season.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 19, 2019, 03:52:22 PM
Maybe we get burned an Nichols heads to Ott..Collaros picks T.O..Arbuckle stays put...hmmmmmmmmm


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on December 19, 2019, 04:14:54 PM
Pretty sure the $700k QB is a thing of the past... Fajardo coming off a MOP type season just re-signed for a reported $450k/year, and $$$ are getting tighter now...

Not sure what teams may be willing to spend on #1 QB's now, or how many need to get #1 QB's under contract, so we will see what the market is.  Especially with the 2 QB rosters.  Jobs for QB's went from 27+ to 18+...  makes it a supply greater than demand market, a buyer's market...


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 19, 2019, 04:35:54 PM
Maybe we get burned an Nichols heads to Ott..Collaros picks T.O..Arbuckle stays put...hmmmmmmmmm

Start Streveler and bring in MBT to be the pass-first guy?

lol, infinite possibilities.

Will be a very interesting off-season.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: the paw on December 19, 2019, 04:49:21 PM
Maybe we get burned an Nichols heads to Ott..Collaros picks T.O..Arbuckle stays put...hmmmmmmmmm

There is a 3downnation article quoting Walters, basically saying that their free agency work has slowed down until they get their coaching staff in place.  That MIGHT mean that Buck isn't a slam dunk for OC, or that at least they haven't made that decision yet. 

Which brings up the question that if they go out and get a different OC who wants to run a different offensive philosophy, how will that affect the QB they try to sign?  What if we end up with Chapeldaine or Macadoo or (Dog Forbid) Bellefeuille as our new OC? 



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 19, 2019, 04:57:04 PM
There is a 3downnation article quoting Walters, basically saying that their free agency work has slowed down until they get their coaching staff in place.  That MIGHT mean that Buck isn't a slam dunk for OC, or that at least they haven't made that decision yet. 

Which brings up the question that if they go out and get a different OC who wants to run a different offensive philosophy, how will that affect the QB they try to sign?  What if we end up with Chapeldaine or Macadoo or (Dog Forbid) Bellefeuille as our new OC? 



Slowed down but I doubt they aren't continuing with some efforts on re-signing some players.  There are probably several players that have had offers or significant discussions about new deals.

You might be right about the QB decision possibly being impacted by the new OC.



Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 19, 2019, 04:59:05 PM
Slowed down but I doubt they aren't continuing with some efforts on re-signing some players.  There are probably several players that have had offers or significant discussions about new deals.

You might be right about the QB decision possibly being impacted by the new OC.



I would think the QB decision is true...if it is a new OC then he may want some say in things...the rest...pretty straight forward, and save for Bryant yet...basically the offence is all back other than a stArting QB


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 19, 2019, 05:13:32 PM
Bryant re-signed his last 1 year deal on January 17 2019. So I don't see any issue with seeing something in a similar time frame for 2020. Players and management are getting some family and / or vacation time in.

Things will heat up in the 1st couple of weeks of January. OTOH I won't be entirely surprised to see another re-signing before Christmas.

MOS said he had some announcements to be made just before Hardrick was done. So might be one more already done just not made public yet.

No concerns at the moment.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: booch on December 19, 2019, 05:16:51 PM
Bryant re-signed his last 1 year deal on January 17 2019. So I don't see any issue with seeing something in a similar time frame for 2020. Players and management are getting some family and / or vacation time in.

Things will heat up in the 1st couple of weeks of January. OTOH I won't be entirely surprised to see another re-signing before Christmas.

MOS said he had some announcements to be made just before Hardrick was done. So might be one more already done just not made public yet.

No concerns at the moment.

Yeah not worried about Bryant, I have said in this forum, or the other that his is just a formal announcement away...and it looks to be a situation that our basic starting Offence will all be back, and most likely a few back-ups..I would be shocked if Augustine isn't


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on December 19, 2019, 06:06:12 PM
Maybe we get burned an Nichols heads to Ott..Collaros picks T.O..Arbuckle stays put...hmmmmmmmmm
You forget Streveler getting an NFL job.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 19, 2019, 06:10:31 PM
That logic is flawed. Every team is different every year. For all we know, we were a better defense away from winning it 2 or 3 years ago. Or we were a Streveler to Harris completion away from winning last year.

Was Collaros huge for us? Sure. But we have no idea how a full year (including playoffs) of either would have panned out

I agree. The only comparable that can be made is this season and both Nichols and Collaros had outstanding win/loss records with THIS team. Collaros doesn't likely get us a GC with the 2017 or 2018 Bombers either. They were just a completed process this year.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 19, 2019, 06:11:35 PM
There is a 3downnation article quoting Walters, basically saying that their free agency work has slowed down until they get their coaching staff in place.  That MIGHT mean that Buck isn't a slam dunk for OC, or that at least they haven't made that decision yet. 

Which brings up the question that if they go out and get a different OC who wants to run a different offensive philosophy, how will that affect the QB they try to sign?  What if we end up with Chapeldaine or Macadoo or (Dog Forbid) Bellefeuille as our new OC? 



I doubt it's Bellefeuille as MOS has fired him once already.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 19, 2019, 06:12:35 PM
There is a 3downnation article quoting Walters, basically saying that their free agency work has slowed down until they get their coaching staff in place.  That MIGHT mean that Buck isn't a slam dunk for OC, or that at least they haven't made that decision yet. 

Which brings up the question that if they go out and get a different OC who wants to run a different offensive philosophy, how will that affect the QB they try to sign?  What if we end up with Chapeldaine or Macadoo or (Dog Forbid) Bellefeuille as our new OC? 



They may know exactly who they want but it's always a negotiation and sometimes these things take a couple weeks to sort out.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 19, 2019, 06:14:59 PM
Bryant re-signed his last 1 year deal on January 17 2019. So I don't see any issue with seeing something in a similar time frame for 2020. Players and management are getting some family and / or vacation time in.

Things will heat up in the 1st couple of weeks of January. OTOH I won't be entirely surprised to see another re-signing before Christmas.

MOS said he had some announcements to be made just before Hardrick was done. So might be one more already done just not made public yet.

No concerns at the moment.

Once end of day tomorrow hits I doubt there are any new signings until after new year. In past years we have signed guys in late December and not announced it until after New Years though. I would think they want to make at least one key re-signing pre-Xmas season tix drive tho.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on December 19, 2019, 08:15:58 PM
IMO the reason that we're not getting any more re-signing announcements is because they've used up this years SMS. I'm pretty sure that Buck will be the OC because I've read a few times that he turned down other OC offers to stay here. I think it's more likely that Hall doesn't want to return. Besides haven't all the re-signings so far been on offence?


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 19, 2019, 08:30:42 PM
Once end of day tomorrow hits I doubt there are any new signings until after new year. In past years we have signed guys in late December and not announced it until after New Years though. I would think they want to make at least one key re-signing pre-Xmas season tix drive tho.

It would be nice to have one last Christmas present from the Bombers tomorrow (Friday) morning. I know my holiday beers would taste a lot better after hearing Stanley Bryant signing up for another 2-3 years in B&G.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on December 19, 2019, 09:18:42 PM
There is a 3downnation article quoting Walters, basically saying that their free agency work has slowed down until they get their coaching staff in place.  That MIGHT mean that Buck isn't a slam dunk for OC, or that at least they haven't made that decision yet. 

Which brings up the question that if they go out and get a different OC who wants to run a different offensive philosophy, how will that affect the QB they try to sign?  What if we end up with Chapeldaine or Macadoo or (Dog Forbid) Bellefeuille as our new OC? 



Even if it's Buck, it's going to be his system he's running not LaPo's. He might be influenced by LaPolice, and would probably provide the most continuity, but it's not a guarantee. If it's anyone outside, then we should expect new everything. New approach, ideas, philosophy, etc.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on December 19, 2019, 09:45:02 PM
IMO the reason that we're not getting any more re-signing announcements is because they've used up this years SMS. I'm pretty sure that Buck will be the OC because I've read a few times that he turned down other OC offers to stay here. I think it's more likely that Hall doesn't want to return. Besides haven't all the re-signings so far been on offence?

That's not really relevant. Contract's can be signed with signing bonus's due after January 1st.

Lolley just left Edmonton after being their DC so there is an opening if Hall chooses to leave. I don't know if he plans to leave or whether we plan to bring him back. MOS usually sticks with his guys.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on December 19, 2019, 10:06:46 PM
The question is does Streveler even have the Tasom Hill measurables?

He may not.


I mean Tasom Hill is pretty amazing!


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 19, 2019, 10:39:16 PM


Since we are wondering off topic, if Hall does leave Winnipeg for whatever reason, Jordan Younger could replace him. Jordan took over while Hall was away on family business and did a very nice job. From what I understand Jordan was the coach that requested JH29 out and BA37 in at safety.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on December 19, 2019, 10:52:56 PM
The only way Richie is leaving is retirement imo.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on December 19, 2019, 11:10:46 PM
The question is does Streveler even have the Tasom Hill measurables?

He may not.


I mean Tasom Hill is pretty amazing!

I don't think Strv17 throws as well as Hill.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on December 19, 2019, 11:16:49 PM
The only way Richie is leaving is retirement imo.
I agree. It was a tough year for him personally and he might be ready to retire.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 20, 2019, 01:33:35 AM
I agree. It was a tough year for him personally and he might be ready to retire.

Seems strange that he hasn't announced his retirement if he is indeed retiring, seeing as he hasn't I expect he will stick with it for another season.  Regardless, I believe any coaching changes will be made from within this off-season, so no need to quickly clear the deck in order to make room for outside help.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Jesse on December 20, 2019, 02:42:36 AM
Seems strange that he hasn't announced his retirement if he is indeed retiring, seeing as he hasn't I expect he will stick with it for another season.  Regardless, I believe any coaching changes will be made from within this off-season, so no need to quickly clear the deck in order to make room for outside help.

I believe he's coming back, but if he was going to retire, no reason why there would be a public announcement yet. He would tell Walters and co. well before we'd hear about it.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: buckzumhoff on December 20, 2019, 06:17:02 AM
I think he will come back. why not. He knows the players and he knows the coaches.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on December 20, 2019, 09:00:32 PM
Another possibility with the coaching staff is that they will still need a receivers coach. I think that they're waiting until after the holidays to announce the whole staff.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on December 21, 2019, 03:25:02 AM
Another possibility with the coaching staff is that they will still need a receivers coach. I think that they're waiting until after the holidays to announce the whole staff.

Fingers crossed for Weston.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: BigBomberFan on December 21, 2019, 09:50:14 PM
Fingers crossed for Weston.

I agree, I'd love to see Dressler back here as the receivers coach, if that's something that he'd be interested in.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: dd on December 23, 2019, 05:49:09 PM
I don't think Strv17 throws as well as Hill.
+1. Not even close.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: bluebeard on December 25, 2019, 03:06:42 PM
I agree, I'd love to see Dressler back here as the receivers coach, if that's something that he'd be interested in.
Has Dressler coached at any level since he left Pro ball??


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: Ridermania on December 25, 2019, 04:23:23 PM
Dressler has a decent job in the US and unlikely to come to Canada to start coaching.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: bluebeard on December 25, 2019, 06:54:32 PM
Another possibility with the coaching staff is that they will still need a receivers coach. I think that they're waiting until after the holidays to announce the whole staff.
Most teams announce their coaching staffs once all the positions are filled.


Title: Re: Nichols or Collaros
Post by: blue girl on December 25, 2019, 09:13:36 PM
Has Dressler coached at any level since he left Pro ball??
IIRC when he was injured here he helped the younger receivers. I think that he'd make a good coach if he's interested.