Blue Bombers Forum

The Extra Point => Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum => Topic started by: swansong on October 09, 2019, 09:05:16 PM



Title: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: swansong on October 09, 2019, 09:05:16 PM
Hmmmm.....

https://3downnation.com/2019/10/09/bombers-acquire-quarterback-zach-collaros-in-trade-with-argos/

The Bombers sent their third round choice in the 2020 CFL draft for the Argos fifth round selection. If Winnipeg re-signs Collaros Toronto receives a first round pick instead of the third.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on October 09, 2019, 09:07:33 PM
Riders got a conditional 4th for Collaros. We don't know if the condition was met.
Argos got an unconditional 3rd that could become a 1st for Collaros.
Good job Toronto.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: pjrocksmb on October 09, 2019, 09:10:08 PM
Riders got a conditional 4th for Collaros. We don't know if the condition was met.
Argos got an unconditional 3rd that could become a 1st for Collaros.
Good job Toronto.

but we got a pick back so not bad


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on October 09, 2019, 09:16:06 PM
He will never be here next year. So we gave up a 3rd. round pick for some insurance.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 09, 2019, 09:25:17 PM
He will never be here next year. So we gave up a 3rd. round pick for some insurance.

I can live with that idea but I'd hate for our team to be responsible for another concussion and long term health issues. If previous injuries were leg or shoulder injuries that would be ok.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: The Zipp on October 09, 2019, 09:42:42 PM
Kyle Walters offers clarification on the trade parameters?

To Winnipeg: QB Zach Collaros and a 2020 5th-round pick

To Toronto: 2020 3rd-round pick, in addition to a 2020 1st-round pick *conditional on Collaros re-signing with the #Bombers for next season.

No contract, no 1st.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Nic16 on October 09, 2019, 09:44:57 PM
Concussion issues aside I don?t mind this deal at all. The Docs have given him full approval to play, so who am I to judge what extent his concussions were and how prone he is to future concussions. Knowing all they know about concussions today I doubt the guy would continue to play if he felt his long term health was at a much higher risk than most anyone else playing contact sports.

Regarding the actual deal, moving down approx 15 spots at the mid-point part of the draft to get a guy that has the potential to run LaPo?s O very effectively I can see why Walter?s pulled the trigger.

IF Collaros gets playing time and shows he can move the O thru the air the run game should also wake from it?s 10 qtr slumber. And all this would help keep our D fresher.

Remember that we have a bye week at the end of the season, so Collaros could very well be ready to start for the playoffs. And you know O?Shea would love the opportunity to use the media to keep our opponent guessing leading up to the game...which could be in Regina ;D


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on October 09, 2019, 09:57:54 PM
Oh God. Might has well have burned our third round pick.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: thunderNlightning on October 09, 2019, 10:01:49 PM
What does it matter, Lapo would ruin him with his playcalling anyway.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Waffler on October 09, 2019, 10:03:36 PM
Actually Lapo might be the best thing for him. Get the ball out quick.  Still, I think he gets the hit that ends it all sometime this season.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on October 09, 2019, 10:13:29 PM
The deal got done 1 minute before the deadline. Talk about waiting till the last minute.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 09, 2019, 10:33:10 PM
So, Toronto paid a 4th, a fifth and paid Collaro's salary for a bunch of games (non SMS),  They got a 3rd.  They didn't win the trade... 

The trade of a third for a fifth to prevent being Dinwiddied, priceless..


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: swansong on October 09, 2019, 10:35:33 PM
Actually Lapo might be the best thing for him. Get the ball out quick. 

You must be thinking of a different LaPo


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: RebusRankin on October 09, 2019, 10:49:22 PM
2018-214 yards passing per game, 9td passes, 13 ints
2017-196 yards passing a game, 8 td passes, 7 ints

Those are Collaros's numbers the past two years. Guy has played lousy the past few years and can't stay healthy. Not worth giving up a third.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Horseman on October 09, 2019, 10:51:33 PM
He will never be here next year. So we gave up a 3rd. round pick for some insurance.

Agree


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Horseman on October 09, 2019, 10:55:06 PM
This is very similar to when the Bombers signed a concussion prone Buck Pierce a few years ago.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: ModAdmin on October 09, 2019, 11:05:45 PM
Blue Bombers Acquire Quarterback Zach Collaros in Trade with Argonauts

WINNIPEG, MB., October 9, 2019 - The Winnipeg Blue Bombers today announce the club has acquired quarterback Zach Collaros and a fifth round draft selection in the 2020 CFL Draft from the Toronto Argonauts in exchange for Winnipeg's third round selection in the 2020 CFL Draft.

Collaros, 31, is 34-31 as a starter in the Canadian Football League with the Toronto Argonauts, Hamilton Tiger-Cats and Saskatchewan Roughriders. He was 10-4 as a starter with the Riders in 2018, a season in which he threw for 2,999 yards and nine touchdowns while also rushing 24 times for 103 yards.

A native of Steubenville, OH, Collaros was first signed by the Argos in 2012 after an outstanding college career at Cincinnati, where he appeared in 41 games for the Bearcats, including 25 starts. He spent the 2012 and 2013 seasons with the Argos - going 5-3 as a starter in '13 - before signing with the Tiger-Cats as a free agent in 2014.

Hamilton held a record of 16-9 in games in which Collaros started in 2015-16 and he had his best season as a pro in 2015 when he was a Most Outstanding Player candidate before a season-ending knee injury. That year, Collaros threw for 3,376 yards with 25 touchdowns and eight interceptions while appearing in just 12 games. He had 2,938 yards passing and a touchdown-to-interception ratio of 18:8 in just 10 games in 2016, and started eight games with the Ticats in 2017, with eight touchdowns and 1,767 yards passing.

Collaros was traded by the Ticats to Saskatchewan in January of 2018 for a second-round draft pick and then re-signed by the Riders in February of this year. Collaros started Saskatchewan's opener against Hamilton this season, but was injured on the first drive. He was then traded back to the Argos on July 31st for a conditional fourth-round draft pick in 2020.

Throughout his CFL career, Collaros has thrown for 16,758 yards and 92 touchdowns.

 


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 09, 2019, 11:30:12 PM
He will never be here next year. So we gave up a 3rd. round pick for some insurance.

Never is not an absolute. We've already seen suggestions that MOS and / or Lapo will go to Toronto and take Nichols with him. Even if MOS doesn't move, Nichols may want to go to Ottawa etc etc if he feels hamstrung by Lapo.


For that matter we don't even know if Nichols will be ready for TC even if we re-sign him.

Even Streveler might decide his chances are greater elsewhere.

We might sign Masoli or Arbuckle on day 1 of free agency.

Lots of different things might happen including we lose both our QB's and don't sign one of the other two good free agent QB's.

You think the Riders would have signed Collaros in 2019 if they could have landed Reilly, BLM etc?


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: catfan on October 09, 2019, 11:30:21 PM
 Hi! Guys ....I think that the trade is good for you guys. He's insurance. You only need
 him for a few games and I like him when he played in hamilton. He got a raw deal with
 the cats. He wasn't a June Jones type QB.
 I think he can help you make it to the Cup. But the Cats are too good for him to beat.
 Our D will have him on his back most of the time.

Chow Catfan  


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 09, 2019, 11:33:57 PM
Hi! Guys ....I think that the trade is good for you guys. He's insurance. You only need
 him for a few games and I like him when he played in hamilton. He got a raw deal with
 the cats. He wasn't a June Jones type QB.
 I think he can help you make it to the Cup. But the Cats are too good for him to beat.
 Our D will have him on his back most of the time.

Chow Catfan  

If he's on his back that's not a very good insurance policy.

It appears he's on the game day AR but it's certain he won't see the field this week. Since we didn't dress 3 QB's it's an addition but there is no deletion.

Depending on how Streveler plays or how quickly Collaros gets up to speed, when or what is the trigger that would get Collaros into a game ahead of McGuire?

Even next week seems a brief time for a QB to get into the play book and game speed.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on October 09, 2019, 11:44:56 PM
Why would the bombers have a starting QB that is one hit away from missing another year. He is insurance for the rest of this year, period.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: RebusRankin on October 10, 2019, 12:02:45 AM
If you're a GM, even if you're desperate for a QB, would you sign a guy knowing it costs you your 1st rounder? I mean if Walters re-signs him, he's a moron.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: New_Earth_Mud on October 10, 2019, 12:09:06 AM
The deal got done 1 minute before the deadline. Talk about waiting till the last minute.


Id call it horrible timing    Lol


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: BlueInCgy on October 10, 2019, 12:11:08 AM
Sweet mercyful crap, I was kidding when I posted this in the other thread.  Seriously Kyle, of all the junk that spews forth from my keyboard, this is the idea you run with.....


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: DM83 on October 10, 2019, 12:13:04 AM
You sign a decent QB to make a couple,throws and run the offence.  The rest of the team is grey cup,quality.
Who cares if he is here next year?

I can't believe they think this walking concussion is able to play. Sask, Toronto took one look and got rid of this guy ASAP.

I wonder if he can last three game?.  If only the O line could. Block and leave him untouched.  I seriously doubt Collaros can keep his marbles all together.

But I guess that was the best we can do.  I don't think he is physically able to play tackle football.

I applaud Walters for doing something.  But really ....MBT was my pick.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: RebusRankin on October 10, 2019, 12:17:33 AM
Look up his numbers the past two seasons, more picks than TD passes and roughly 200 yards a game passing. He's not good anymore.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: catfan on October 10, 2019, 12:25:32 AM
Why would the bombers have a starting QB that is one hit away from missing another year. He is insurance for the rest of this year, period.

I don't see a problem with that. He's the best out there for a short period of time.


catfan


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: jammer316 on October 10, 2019, 12:56:44 AM
He will be lucky is he plays one quarter before he forgets his own name because he get his brain rearranged!!Can always count on the bombers to do a stupid move


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue girl on October 10, 2019, 01:12:24 AM
I don't think that he'll even see the field unless Streveler gets a season ending injury. He is here strictly for insurance and to show the fans that they'll do everything that they can to end this drought. This deal probably wouldn't even have gotten done if Popp was still in Toronto.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue newt on October 10, 2019, 02:45:07 AM
I don't think that he'll even see the field unless Streveler gets a season ending injury. He is here strictly for insurance and to show the fans that they'll do everything that they can to end this drought. This deal probably wouldn't even have gotten done if Popp was still in Toronto.

That's exactly it from what I've read. Walters tried to make this trade weeks ago and Popp wouldn't do it. It's only with Popp leaving that it could go through.  Even Clemens is saying that they are still hoping to get Collaros back to the Argos in the offseason. Probably why the 1st rounder is on the line should Winnipeg try to make a longer contract for him.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: BLUEBOMBER on October 10, 2019, 03:17:10 AM
Collaros can be dynamite if he's healthy.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 10, 2019, 03:56:25 AM
I don't think that he'll even see the field unless Streveler gets a season ending injury. He is here strictly for insurance and to show the fans that they'll do everything that they can to end this drought. This deal probably wouldn't even have gotten done if Popp was still in Toronto.

I'm not so sure about that, I can see O'Shea using him if Streveler is not getting it done and the game is slipping away, especially heading into the playoffs with home field at stake.  After all they're paying Collaros to play football not stand on the sidelines.  I think O'Shea has finally moved on from sticking with his starting QB till the bitter end and will do whatever it takes to try to win the final contests, at least I hope so.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 10, 2019, 03:56:50 AM
Collaros can be dynamite if he's healthy.

Once upon a longtime ago.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blitzer on October 10, 2019, 04:14:23 AM
That's exactly it from what I've read. Walters tried to make this trade weeks ago and Popp wouldn't do it. It's only with Popp leaving that it could go through.  Even Clemens is saying that they are still hoping to get Collaros back to the Argos in the offseason. Probably why the 1st rounder is on the line should Winnipeg try to make a longer contract for him.


Thanks for that info. I was wondering why they didn't get him up a couple of weeks ago. I'm happy they got him. It should take some pressure off of Strev.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 10, 2019, 05:15:35 AM
Insurance policy. It is fine to hope we never need to put in a claim. Rider fans will tell you they would have won the Grey Cup if he were healthy at the end of last year


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 10, 2019, 05:42:11 AM
I'm with blue girl and newt.

This is insurance that is really CYA to allow the Mafia to say they did something and weren't being irresponsible.  In fact, it's the best CYA ever because Collaros a) doesn't care if he's not on the field, and b) is fully expecting to not be on the field.

And the optics are even better because you can hold up Collaros and say "previous GC starting QB!".

I'll be pretty darn surprised if we try to integrate him into the O and into gametime reps at all.  I'd say he's only used if Strev goes down.  Even then, I bet you they put McGuire in before Collaros because he's been working with the team all year.

I mean, what other option is there?  Are they going to yank Strev immediately, pass over McGuire, and play Collaros as he learns the book starting in 3 days?  Sure, that might work to get him up to speed by playoff time, maybe.  But we'll lose games in the meantime and we're trading the risk of Strev getting injured for the even greater (almost guaranteed) risk of Collaros getting concussed.  Ya, so I doubt that's the case.

It's the best, cheapest, best-optics CYA play eva.

And I'm totally fine with it.  3rd round or whatever?  Cheap.  We don't need it.  It's a reasonable deal and everyone gets to look good in the court of public opinion.  What's not to like?


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 10, 2019, 05:44:29 AM
The trade of a third for a fifth to prevent being Dinwiddied, priceless..

Yup, if it comes to that, Collaros at least gives us some hope of something in the playoffs -- until he gets concussed that is.  It's the smart deal.

However, where's our trade for a big-body 50/50 WR??  Heh?  Guess we really are sticking with our horses.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: J5V on October 10, 2019, 07:49:21 AM
So, let me get this straight. You guys are saying that Toronto gets O'Shea and Nichols, and gives us Collaros in return. What is this, payback for the Drew Willy deal? This deal is so bad that Walters must be going to Toronto too.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 10, 2019, 07:55:11 AM
So, let me get this straight. You guys are saying that Toronto gets O'Shea and Nichols, and gives us Collaros in return. What is this, payback for the Drew Willy deal? This deal is so bad that Walters must be going to Toronto too.

Hah!  Funny.  Hey, make it better, trade Walters for Popp!  Oh wait...

This is nothing more than Collaros CYA/insurance for 4(maybe) to 6(hooray!!) games in blue & gold and then shown the door.  Well, I will say that if Collaros starts all our playoff games and wins the GC, then we might keep him.  But short of that long shot of all long shots Collaros is gonzo to FA (probably back to TOR) after our last game.  And all it costs us is (not even) a 3rd rounder?  Pffftt.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 10, 2019, 08:31:27 AM
Hey... what if this move is also being used as leverage against Nichols in negotiations for 2020?  Put pressure on Nichols to accept a lower salary -- "hey look at this GC-caliber QB we have on our roster who just might take your spot!" -- or at the very least, not demand a pay raise.

Ya, it's kind of weak sauce given it's Collaros, but it sure beats the "take a salary decrease or we'll just go with Streveler!" tactic.

Just a thought, anyhow.  Getting CYA, optics, "insurance" and a Nichols-bludgeon, all for a 3rd rounder, isn't bad at all.  Good job KW!


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 10, 2019, 11:08:13 AM
Shouldn't be back slapping him for a deal that should have been made a month ago.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: RebusRankin on October 10, 2019, 11:36:10 AM
Grey Cup caliber QB? Its 2019, not 2014.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 10, 2019, 11:48:45 AM
Grey Cup caliber QB? Its 2019, not 2014.

No kidding. ZC is not a great QB at this stage of his career, however, as insurance he may be able to do just enough if our D can move mountains for him. Strev's our guy through hell or high water but if he is injured I would rather have a Collaros available than a CFL rookie who has never taken a snap. I've seen that movie and didn't like the ending.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: RebusRankin on October 10, 2019, 11:51:02 AM
No kidding. ZC is not a great QB at this stage of his career, however, as insurance he may be able to do just enough if our D can move mountains for him. Strev's our guy through hell or high water but if he is injured I would rather have a Collaros available than a CFL rookie who has never taken a snap. I've seen that movie and didn't like the ending.

So you prefer the punch in the face to the punch in the balls?


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: The Zipp on October 10, 2019, 11:58:16 AM
So you prefer the punch in the face to the punch in the balls?

Dude the face is always the best option...


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 10, 2019, 12:16:11 PM
Grey Cup caliber QB? Its 2019, not 2014.

Uh, you didn't see my "" quotes and understand what I was saying about optics?  No one thinks Collaros is "GC caliber", but a savvy GM can still say it to the plebes and many will buy it!!  Officially, it's not untrue: QB made it to the GC = GC caliber.  Of course, we all know Collaros is virtually useless unless miracles rain down on us any given Sunday.

But like the others said: Collaros is probably the better starting QB in the playoffs (vs McGuire) should Strev go down in the final season game.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: WpgGuyInToronto on October 10, 2019, 12:17:39 PM
Is Collaros even healthy? He was listed on the Argos 6-game injured list


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on October 10, 2019, 12:23:06 PM
Is Collaros even healthy? He was listed on the Argos 6-game injured list

I doubt a team would trade for an injured QB.

I don't get this trade, though. Desperation is what it looks like.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: BigBlueCrew on October 10, 2019, 12:35:23 PM
This is very similar to when the Bombers signed a concussion prone Buck Pierce a few years ago.

That concussion prone Buck Pierce was the last QB to play for the Bombers in a Grey Cup.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: WpgGuyInToronto on October 10, 2019, 12:36:49 PM
I doubt a team would trade for an injured QB.

I don't get this trade, though. Desperation is what it looks like.
Realistically can he learn the playbook in 3 weeks? I agree it's desperation but it does good in the PR dept


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on October 10, 2019, 12:52:07 PM
That concussion prone Buck Pierce was the last QB to play for the Bombers in a Grey Cup.

And we signed Buck to be the guy, not an insurance policy like ZC.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: bomb squad on October 10, 2019, 12:55:08 PM
Realistically can he learn the playbook in 3 weeks? I agree it's desperation but it does good in the PR dept

No. But what has the playbook done for us anyways?


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: buckzumhoff on October 10, 2019, 12:59:41 PM
We have 3 good quarterbacks now.  Good trade.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on October 10, 2019, 01:04:26 PM
Realistically can he learn the playbook in 3 weeks? I agree it's desperation but it does good in the PR dept

I'm sure he would have a half decent handle on it. The plan is to run a ton anyway.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Waffler on October 10, 2019, 01:14:44 PM
Shouldn't be back slapping him for a deal that should have been made a month ago.

Wasn't he just cleared to play this week? 


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on October 10, 2019, 01:18:53 PM
I thought it was stupid of Regina to sign Collaros this year, stupid of Toronto to trade for him and stupid of Winnipeg to trade for him.

Collaros shouldn't be playing football any more. I'd feel horrible if he goes down playing for us.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: buckzumhoff on October 10, 2019, 01:19:55 PM
Clemons comes in and he makes a trade. I guess Popp didn't want to make a move. Toronto is willing to wheel and deal at least. Not like Popp. Never made any trades with Montreal. Not a gambler.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: BBRT on October 10, 2019, 01:21:00 PM
I thought it was stupid of Regina to sign Collaros this year, stupid of Toronto to trade for him and stupid of Winnipeg to trade for him.

Collaros shouldn't be playing football any more. I'd feel horrible if he goes down playing for us.

I agree 100% - in this case 3 "Stupids" do not make a "Right". Just hope he does not see any action this year and retires in the off season.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: rubanski on October 10, 2019, 01:21:54 PM
I remain firmly in the camp that whoever signed Collaros PRIOR to his last concussion was a reckless fool. This is Buck all over again, and the man needs to never put a helmet on again.

His brain is jelly. Love the effort by Walters, but can't condone this trade. Disappointed as a fan he's a BB.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: rubanski on October 10, 2019, 01:22:50 PM
I thought it was stupid of Regina to sign Collaros this year, stupid of Toronto to trade for him and stupid of Winnipeg to trade for him.

Collaros shouldn't be playing football any more. I'd feel horrible if he goes down playing for us.

We should all feel horrible if it happens. O'Day, Popp and Clemons too.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 10, 2019, 01:45:30 PM
I thought it was stupid of Regina to sign Collaros this year, stupid of Toronto to trade for him and stupid of Winnipeg to trade for him.

Collaros shouldn't be playing football any more. I'd feel horrible if he goes down playing for us.

+ 1


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on October 10, 2019, 01:49:09 PM
I agree that man should packed it up after last season. However I will not feel bad if he gets hurt playing for us. He is an adult that probably has been told the risks. He has decided to continue his career. What happens with his life is on him now.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 10, 2019, 01:54:05 PM
So you prefer the punch in the face to the punch in the balls?

Yep. You can hold your nose at the stink of this trade, but realistically it was a necessary move once Nichols was done for the season. A backup without a snap stands zero chance of winning a playoff game if Strev gets hurt. If Collaros gives us a 25% chance of winning it is better than zero.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: buckzumhoff on October 10, 2019, 01:54:31 PM
The league has to call the helmet to helmet spearing that Montreal does a lot of, they did a lot against Streveller last game, didn't call anything. Some defences coach it, Montreal, BC used to always go for a late hit and Ottawa.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 10, 2019, 01:56:21 PM
I doubt a team would trade for an injured QB.

I don't get this trade, though. Desperation is what it looks like.

Desperation is what it is. Let's call a spade a spade. We have our starting QB out for the year, his backup showing he can only be effective if we let him get creamed running the ball and a 3rd string that has never thrown a CFL pass. Smells like desperation because right now that is what we are.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 10, 2019, 01:57:09 PM
Not sure if ZC is better than Nichols, but he sure isn't a lot worse... depending on what shape he is in physically and mentally...  if Pinball is already considering bringing him back for next year, that is a pretty good indication that things are OK...

If Streveler gets injured in a similar manner to Glenn, then we have a legit QB, not a Dinwiddie.  No dis at Dinwiddie or McGuire, but ZC has a lot more CFL experience, which counts for lots in the post season.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 10, 2019, 01:58:23 PM
And its not like we gave anything up... moved from a late 3rd round pick to an early 5th rounder, maybe 10-12 spots?


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 10, 2019, 01:58:28 PM
We should all feel horrible if it happens. O'Day, Popp and Clemons too.

Why should we all feel horrible? The guy is being medically cleared to play. None of us are doctors. Only a trained brain specialist and ZC himself have the knowledge as to whether or not this guy should be playing or not.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 10, 2019, 02:11:12 PM
𝗗𝗮𝗿𝗿𝗶𝗻 𝗕𝗮𝘂𝗺𝗶𝗻𝗴@DarrinBauming

Interesting? Matt Nichols was acquired by the #Bombers September 2, 2015 and dressed as the third-stringer four days later behind Brian Brohm and Dom Davis.

10 days after joining Winnipeg ? with Drew Willy and Robert Marve both on the 6-Game ? Matt Nichols was the starting QB.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: BBRT on October 10, 2019, 02:12:16 PM
And its not like we gave anything up... moved from a late 3rd round pick to an early 5th rounder, maybe 10-12 spots?

This is sort of a MEH event in my mind. I hope that Stev stays on his feet and finishes the season -then one and done in the playoffs with ZC not getting on the field. They Zack can retire hopefully, and we go go about our business of starting on our  brand new 10 year plan to win the Cup with new management! Going to be an exciting 10 years! :)


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Knocker42 on October 10, 2019, 02:18:22 PM
Desperation is what it is. Let's call a spade a spade. We have our starting QB out for the year, his backup showing he can only be effective if we let him get creamed running the ball and a 3rd string that has never thrown a CFL pass. Smells like desperation because right now that is what we are.
It is hard to argue with your points.  We were never going to go anywhere with a QB whose passing game is no threat. ZC is here for the playoffs.  Hopefully he can get some reps before that but, given what was available, it's well worth the risk.  If, and it is a very big if, he brings success, he can be signed for next year and the extra pick would seem like a good deal.  If he falls flat, he's gone and we are no worse off than we would have been without him.
I think KW has made the best of a poor situation.
As for ZC's health, if the medics have cleared him and he wants to take the risk, that's not on the Bombers.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 10, 2019, 02:20:28 PM
Why should we all feel horrible? The guy is being medically cleared to play. None of us are doctors. Only a trained brain specialist and ZC himself have the knowledge as to whether or not this guy should be playing or not.

We see how that worked in the NFL with so many players having died of their brain injuries. Concussions are cumulative.

Just listen to Matt Dunigan speak during broadcasts and tell me he hasn't suffered life altering problems.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: trapper on October 10, 2019, 02:26:17 PM
Insurance policy. It is fine to hope we never need to put in a claim. Rider fans will tell you they would have won the Grey Cup if he were healthy at the end of last year

Maybe not....but they would have won the western semi-final....


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: bomb squad on October 10, 2019, 02:28:01 PM
I'm in the camp of letting adults make the own decisions. More importantly, they have a right to do so. Especially, when it involves their chosen career and livelihood. What right do O'Day, Popp, Clemons, or Walters have to deny him that right? Sure, they can tell him they think it's a bad idea, and so can everybody else. But, If the doctors have cleared him to play, and if he's decided he can play, then all he should need to do is sign with somebody, and get out there and compete for a chance to play.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on October 10, 2019, 02:29:54 PM
Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 10, 2019, 02:32:08 PM
Maybe not....but they would have won the western semi-final....

The 31-0 beatdown the Bombers gave the Riders a couple weeks before with ZC at QB says otherwise.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on October 10, 2019, 02:33:06 PM
Maybe not....but they would have won the western semi-final....

lol no


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 10, 2019, 02:34:57 PM
Not sure if ZC is better than Nichols, but he sure isn't a lot worse... depending on what shape he is in physically and mentally...  if Pinball is already considering bringing him back for next year, that is a pretty good indication that things are OK...

If Streveler gets injured in a similar manner to Glenn, then we have a legit QB, not a Dinwiddie.  No dis at Dinwiddie or McGuire, but ZC has a lot more CFL experience, which counts for lots in the post season.

You think that ZC and Nichols are close to equal? Man o man the guy becomes a Bomber and you start talking like there is some comparison between the two? Matt is the better QB all day, every day, and it's not even close. ZC is better than what we currently have behind Streveler, but make no mistake, he is not a good QB anymore.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 10, 2019, 02:43:20 PM
You think that ZC and Nichols are close to equal? Man o man the guy becomes a Bomber and you start talking like there is some comparison between the two? Matt is the better QB all day, every day, and it's not even close. ZC is better than what we currently have behind Streveler, but make no mistake, he is not a good QB anymore.

By the numbers....  guess which one is which?

              gp      comp      att            %      yds        td      int      td/int   avg
                                                   
Total       73      1361      2076      0.655   16758      92      51      0.554   8.1   
                                                   
Total       86      1582      2373      0.666   18363      108      60      0.555   7.7   



Yup, plain as the nose on your face, one is far and away the better QB...


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: the paw on October 10, 2019, 02:54:56 PM
On a moral level, I don't like this signing.  I would rather not be complicit in ruining this young man's medical future. 

If you can put the moral dimension aside, and only look at it from a football perspective, it was really the only deal to be made.  Streveler is still #1 the rest of the way, but Collaros at least gives you an option in case of trouble.  A third rounder is nothing to give up for insurance in this situation.  I will be horrified if we re-sign him after this year. 


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on October 10, 2019, 03:11:12 PM
Yes tapper, and Bomber fans will tell you that we would have won the cup if Nichols was healthy. Nobody knows this stuff, that's why they play the games.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on October 10, 2019, 03:11:59 PM
On a moral level, I don't like this signing.  I would rather not be complicit in ruining this young man's medical future. 

If you can put the moral dimension aside, and only look at it from a football perspective, it was really the only deal to be made.  Streveler is still #1 the rest of the way, but Collaros at least gives you an option in case of trouble.  A third rounder is nothing to give up for insurance in this situation.  I will be horrified if we re-sign him after this year. 

These are pretty much my thoughts.

Question for folks having an ethics dilemma with this: does it soften the blow to have him in a backup role like we will surely employ him? To bring him in as a starter would be reprehensible at this point in him career, and while I realize all it takes is one hit, etc., getting more limited potential reps significantly decreases chances of further incidents.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: trapper on October 10, 2019, 03:13:09 PM
The 31-0 beatdown the Bombers gave the Riders a couple weeks before with ZC at QB says otherwise.

Not it doesn't.  Why not look at LDC or Banjo Bowl?  As we saw this year...home games and away games are very different.

Riders lost a 5 point game in which Bridge went 12-22 for 100 yards and 1 INT.  He missed some wide open receivers in the end zone that game.   Collaros would have provided enough additional offense to win that game.

Not trying to re-live the past...just saying he provides a benefit to the Bombers and is a good pick up right now.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: trapper on October 10, 2019, 03:15:19 PM
Yes tapper, and Bomber fans will tell you that we would have won the cup if Nichols was healthy. Nobody knows this stuff, that's why they play the games.

Possibly.  The team was better with Nichols.  I think there was a good opportunity....but then again...I don't think I will ever pick a team to beat a BLM led Calgary team in a playoff game.  Ya they do lose some...and upsets can happen....but I won't pick it :)


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on October 10, 2019, 03:18:25 PM
These are pretty much my thoughts.

Question for folks having an ethics dilemma with this: does it soften the blow to have him in a backup role like we will surely employ him? To bring him in as a starter would be reprehensible at this point in him career, and while I realize all it takes is one hit, etc., getting more limited potential reps significantly decreases chances of further incidents.

The reality is if you watch football (and most sports) there is a chance an athlete might suffer a major or life-impacting injury. Knowing that then, why is there an ethical dilemma surrounding Colllaros? He's obviously injury prone but not the only one. It's certainly not my place to presume to know what Zach Collaros should and shouldn't do. No more than Matt Nichols, who's had more than his fair share of serious injuries over his career. People seem to worry a lot about the concussions, and rightly I suppose, but the risk is always there regardless (ie. Jonanthan Hefney).


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 10, 2019, 03:18:57 PM
By the numbers....  guess which one is which?

              gp      comp      att            %      yds        td      int      td/int   avg
                                                   
Total       73      1361      2076      0.655   16758      92      51      0.554   8.1   
                                                   
Total       86      1582      2373      0.666   18363      108      60      0.555   7.7   



Yup, plain as the nose on your face, one is far and away the better QB...


Was....at one time Zach was a better QB than Nichols, that is no longer true.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: bluengold204 on October 10, 2019, 03:21:09 PM
This is sort of a MEH event in my mind. I hope that Stev stays on his feet and finishes the season -then one and done in the playoffs with ZC not getting on the field. They Zack can retire hopefully, and we go go about our business of starting on our  brand new 10 year plan to win the Cup with new management! Going to be an exciting 10 years! :)

You would hope that we are one and done in the playoffs


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: bluengold204 on October 10, 2019, 03:23:40 PM
Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves.

That's why there are doctors.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: rubanski on October 10, 2019, 03:27:59 PM
I agree that man should packed it up after last season. However I will not feel bad if he gets hurt playing for us. He is an adult that probably has been told the risks. He has decided to continue his career. What happens with his life is on him now.

Why should we all feel horrible? The guy is being medically cleared to play. None of us are doctors. Only a trained brain specialist and ZC himself have the knowledge as to whether or not this guy should be playing or not.


Ok, let's recap.
Man gets brain injury 2014.
Man gets another brain injury in 2016.
Man gets another 2 brain injuries in 2018.
Man gets another brain injury in 2019.

Your main argument is that his brain is currently functioning normally.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Waffler on October 10, 2019, 03:29:54 PM
Yes, he has not even PRACTICED since week one!  How is he in any way ready to play? 

We can only hope he is latter day Lulay. Had a few good games left in him.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on October 10, 2019, 03:32:14 PM

Ok, let's recap.
Man gets brain injury 2014.
Man gets another brain injury in 2016.
Man gets another 2 brain injuries in 2018.
Man gets another brain injury in 2019.

Your main argument is that his brain is currently functioning normally.

Assuming you (or others) get to decide for him, when exactly do you tell him he can't play football anymore? After the second one in 2018? Why? When your conscious starts acting up? After the latest one? Should Loffler be allowed to play again even though his knee is obviously shot and it will probably limit his mobility when he gets older? We've seen some guys retire very early. We've some many more keep trying. It's up to the athlete.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 10, 2019, 03:35:23 PM
Best case scenario, ZC never takes a snap.  But, if need be, it is great to know that there is an option that has as much CFL experience as Nichols behind Steveler.

My biggest hope is that it lights a fire under Streveler, knowing that there is a legit veteran option behind him (not dis'ing McGuire's abilities).

Yes, he has not even PRACTICED since week one!  How is he in any way ready to play? 

We can only hope he is latter day Lulay. Had a few good games left in him.

We don't even need a full game, just the second half of the GC... ;)


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: trapper on October 10, 2019, 03:36:55 PM
Best case scenario, ZC never takes a snap.  But, if need be, it is great to know that there is an option that has as much CFL experience as Nichols behind Steveler.

Yup.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on October 10, 2019, 03:38:19 PM
Assuming you (or others) get to decide for him, when exactly do you tell him he can't play football anymore? After the second one in 2018? Why? When your conscious starts acting up? After the latest one? Should Loffler be allowed to play again even though his knee is obviously shot and it will probably limit his mobility when he gets older? We've seen some guys retire very early. We've some many more keep trying. It's up to the athlete.
You're equating a knee injury with a brain injury? LOL


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on October 10, 2019, 03:39:55 PM
You're equating a knee injury with a brain injury? LOL

So you're good with mobility risks you're just not good with concussion related symptoms? Is that where your conscious draws the line?


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: bomb squad on October 10, 2019, 04:08:20 PM
Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves.

Sounds like something the Chinese government would tell it's people.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blueraid on October 10, 2019, 04:08:48 PM
This move to acquire Collaros gives us a shot.....Making no move at all would spell an early end to the season....Viewed by many as desperation....but who's to say this doesn't work out...


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 10, 2019, 04:11:13 PM
I thought it was stupid of Regina to sign Collaros this year, stupid of Toronto to trade for him and stupid of Winnipeg to trade for him.

Collaros shouldn't be playing football any more. I'd feel horrible if he goes down playing for us.

Agreed.  Does anyone know if players on the 6 game get paid full salary or a percentage of it?  Either way I'm amazed teams have continued to employ Collaros for this entire season, he's made out like a bandit this year collecting a hefty salary for only 3 downs played.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 10, 2019, 04:13:04 PM
So you're good with mobility risks you're just not good with concussion related symptoms? Is that where your conscious draws the line?

That's exactly where I'd draw the line. Mobility injury against brain injury are not on the same planet of risk.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: trapper on October 10, 2019, 04:17:04 PM
Agreed.  Does anyone know if players on the 6 game get paid full salary or a percentage of it?  Either way I'm amazed teams have continued to employ Collaros for this entire season, he's made out like a bandit this year collecting a hefty salary for only 3 downs played.

They get their full salary.  Most of Zach's was in the form of a signing bonus.  As such, he wasn't that expensive.  That being said, if TO had NO plans to play him...not sure why they would have traded for him.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 10, 2019, 04:17:44 PM
Agreed.  Does anyone know if players on the 6 game get paid full salary or a percentage of it?  Either way I'm amazed teams have continued to employ Collaros for this entire season, he's made out like a bandit this year collecting a hefty salary for only 3 downs played.

He gets full salary on IR. On the 6 game IR it doesn't count against the SMS.

CFL.CA shows him transferred to IR but doesn't show whether it's 1 game or 6 game. The roster shows him on the AR.

It would seem staying on the 6 game IR for this week makes the most sense. Even if he's cleared to play it won't be this week. He'll barely be in town long enough to find the field. So that means he'd come off IR next week and on the AR I'd imagine.

With only a couple of practices under his belt I'd also think McGuire would be next man up in Calgary if Streveler is injured this week or during the 1st Calgary game.

For the 2nd Calgary game and beyond Collaros likely moves up to # 2 QB.

The best scenario is for Streveler to play too well to be pulled ( winning ) and staying injury free.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 10, 2019, 04:19:31 PM
They get their full salary.  Most of Zach's was in the form of a signing bonus.  As such, he wasn't that expensive.  That being said, if TO had NO plans to play him...not sure why they would have traded for him.

That's an interesting question especially since they suggested they'd like him back in 2020. More to the point if they've determined that neither MBT or Franklin are going to be the # 1 in 2020, why not play Collaros in the remaining games.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: rubanski on October 10, 2019, 04:19:45 PM
So you're good with mobility risks you're just not good with concussion related symptoms? Is that where your conscious draws the line?

Yup, me too.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Ridermania on October 10, 2019, 04:20:08 PM
What is Strev stays healthy but doesn't win?


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 10, 2019, 04:26:24 PM
What is Strev stays healthy but doesn't win?


A complex question. Is not winning the fault of the offense and the QB in particular? If that was the question last week the fault was the offense and the QB entirely.

In the previous weeks I wouldn't say that it was ALL on the offense. Lots of blame to go around.

We'll see how the team does and where or if they go to plan B. Note that Plan B isn't always a better solution but we all realize it may come down to a decision point.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on October 10, 2019, 04:30:15 PM
The reality is if you watch football (and most sports) there is a chance an athlete might suffer a major or life-impacting injury. Knowing that then, why is there an ethical dilemma surrounding Colllaros? He's obviously injury prone but not the only one. It's certainly not my place to presume to know what Zach Collaros should and shouldn't do. No more than Matt Nichols, who's had more than his fair share of serious injuries over his career. People seem to worry a lot about the concussions, and rightly I suppose, but the risk is always there regardless (ie. Jonanthan Hefney).

You're not wrong, and if a doctor clears Zach and Zach thinks he's good to go, then I objectively support it. However, I can't help but feel that me watching a game by a guy who has gotten his brain so beat up is doing him a disservice. I believe fully in personal responsibility, but if the hit he takes in a Bomber uniform is the one that spells him to spend his elder years slurring his sentences and slurring his words, then I can't help but feel we played some sort of role in that.

Yes, all players take a risk when they step out in the field, but ZC is an exception given his history. He is more affected by this risk than any other player in the league I can think of right now.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on October 10, 2019, 04:35:45 PM
What is Strev stays healthy but doesn't win?


Depends on the specific circumstance. If he is demonstrating that he cannot execute while our defense is giving our O plenty of opportunity, then I will advocate to pull Streveler. If other aspects of the team are not doing their job (D isn't making stops, receivers dropping balls or blatantly unable to get open), then it's not on the QB and basically, we are what we are at that point. I think Streveler's leash is as long as that of the rest of the team and so it's not a question of pulling him based on low level of team success; rather, individual failure consistently throughout the course of a game.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 10, 2019, 04:36:15 PM
You're not wrong, and if a doctor clears Zach and Zach thinks he's good to go, then I objectively support it. However, I can't help but feel that me watching a game by a guy who has gotten his brain so beat up is doing him a disservice. I believe fully in personal responsibility, but if the hit he takes in a Bomber uniform is the one that spells him to spend his elder years slurring his sentences and slurring his words, then I can't help but feel we played some sort of role in that.

Yes, all players take a risk when they step out in the field, but ZC is an exception given his history. He is more affected by this risk than any other player in the league I can think of right now.


Life is full of risks. The question is if the level of risk has increased in a given situation. IMO it has increased dramatically for Collaros at this time. We'll all cringe every play he plays and gets hit just as we did with Buck Pierce.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 10, 2019, 04:36:22 PM
That's an interesting question especially since they suggested they'd like him back in 2020. More to the point if they've determined that neither MBT or Franklin are going to be the # 1 in 2020, why not play Collaros in the remaining games.

The only reason I can think of for not playing him is Sask. had a conditional draft pick riding on it, I think it would have changed from a 4th rounder to a 3rd.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 10, 2019, 04:37:24 PM
I don't want to see ZC take a snap for the WBB.  But I think everyone involved knows the risks and all are willing to take the consequences of the situation.  ZC's last injury was i now way ZC specific.  ANY QB would have suffered a concussion on that hit.  Andrew Harris would have.  The fact that he has recovered from it enough to be cleared to play is something we have to accept, and his role here is not to start next week, but to be ready in case...

The concern for the roster has always been to find a veteran *backup*.  Willy, Glenn, and the rest that were contacted would never have been expected to take the reins from Streveler/McGuire, but to be there "in case".   ZC may never take a snap for Winnipeg, but he does make our GC chances better just by being on the roster.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: trapper on October 10, 2019, 04:42:18 PM
That's an interesting question especially since they suggested they'd like him back in 2020. More to the point if they've determined that neither MBT or Franklin are going to be the # 1 in 2020, why not play Collaros in the remaining games.

One thought, they want to see if he can take some hits without being responsible for it.

But no way is Pinball going to sign him.  They are going after Arbuckle or Mazoli.



Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on October 10, 2019, 04:45:26 PM
Dr's don't protect people from themselves. Example... My FIL, 89, can't feel his feet, can't make quick decisions, can't see or hear properly, has two accidents in a month cuz he pressed the gas instead of the break. That was several years ago. Goes to his Dr every year to get the medical form signed to get his drivers license. (Don't worry, he doesn't have a car  anymore, but that's beside the point)

Yes... Thats where I draw the line. Huge difference between limping and not being able to think properly.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: bomb squad on October 10, 2019, 04:49:12 PM
Not it doesn't.  Why not look at LDC or Banjo Bowl?  As we saw this year...home games and away games are very different.

Riders lost a 5 point game in which Bridge went 12-22 for 100 yards and 1 INT.  He missed some wide open receivers in the end zone that game.   Collaros would have provided enough additional offense to win that game.

Not trying to re-live the past...just saying he provides a benefit to the Bombers and is a good pick up right now.

Yeah, this is what the Rider nation is running with, because it makes them feel better, I get it. But it's really a bogus premise. There's really not much of a  basis for it. First of all, Collaros wasn't lighting it up when he was playing. Secondly, I was at that game and it was brutally cold, with a wind to boot. Not going to get much of a passing game in that weather. Nichols had 169. Not exactly a banner day either.

Bridge missed of couple of wide open deep receivers? Yes he did. Of course, Collaros would have hit those open receivers right? Sure, because he's never missed any in his career. And how do you know they would have been open if he was playing? I recall Bridge doing a lot of scrambling and running and having a fair amount of success at it. Maybe that's why they were open in the first place. The defence had to load up closer to the los. I doubt Collaros would have created that space in the back end. We can go on and on, but you can't compare what happened in a game and assume the same situations would have presented themselves if a different qb was in there. The Bombers had 200 yards rushing that day. That's a big reason why they won, there you have it.  





Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: lenny on October 10, 2019, 04:57:54 PM
Depends on the specific circumstance. If he is demonstrating that he cannot execute while our defense is giving our O plenty of opportunity, then I will advocate to pull Streveler. If other aspects of the team are not doing their job (D isn't making stops, receivers dropping balls or blatantly unable to get open), then it's not on the QB and basically, we are what we are at that point. I think Streveler's leash is as long as that of the rest of the team and so it's not a question of pulling him based on low level of success; rather, individual failure consistently throughout the course of a game.

I have zero problem with this trade. The problem I have is with MOS. I've rarely seen a guy so loyal to a fault. Streveler was struggling badly last game. MOS needs to exercise some self-awareness and game awareness and pull. The kid should have been pulled at least somewhere's in the third if only to give him a timeout to look at the field and D formations from the sidelines. And also to shake him him a bit. My point: If Strev struggles will MOS have the wherewithal to pull him and put Collaros in? It doesn't necessarily have to be for the rest of the game if only to give Zach some live reps with the offence and get him onboard if any kind of legitimate run is to take place.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 10, 2019, 05:02:11 PM
By the numbers....  guess which one is which?

              gp      comp      att            %      yds        td      int      td/int   avg
                                                   
Total       73      1361      2076      0.655   16758      92      51      0.554   8.1   
                                                   
Total       86      1582      2373      0.666   18363      108      60      0.555   7.7   



Yup, plain as the nose on your face, one is far and away the better QB...


Stack up Kevin Glenn's numbers up to both of those guys...he must be far more exceptional than either of the two combined according to your logic.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 10, 2019, 05:02:36 PM
One thought, they want to see if he can take some hits without being responsible for it.

But no way is Pinball going to sign him.  They are going after Arbuckle or Mazoli.



Perhaps. I'd agree Masoli and Arbuckle will be higher up the interest list for every team looking for a QB.

Realistically I expect Masoli back in Hamilton. Arbuckle is the more likely to move with a chance to start elsewhere.

Nichols might be some teams 3rd choice. Actually he might be some teams 1st choice depending on what the other QB's do and SMS hit. If all 3 want $650K he's not going to be my 1st choice.

The reality is we won't know who actually reaches free agency or what they plan to do. Injury recover time is in question for both Masoli and Nichols.

Toronto and Ottawa are bound to be in the market. Bombers should be in the market but we'll see.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 10, 2019, 05:05:52 PM
Was....at one time Zach was a better QB than Nichols, that is no longer true.

Polar opposite career slopes over the past few years. The suggestion that ZC is even close to as good as Nichols at this point and time is laughable. In 2015 the opposite would have been true....but it's not 2015 anymore.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 10, 2019, 05:07:19 PM
A complex question. Is not winning the fault of the offense and the QB in particular? If that was the question last week the fault was the offense and the QB entirely.

In the previous weeks I wouldn't say that it was ALL on the offense. Lots of blame to go around.

We'll see how the team does and where or if they go to plan B. Note that Plan B isn't always a better solution but we all realize it may come down to a decision point.

that's a complex answer... what happened to 'win as a team, lose as a team'??


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 10, 2019, 05:09:06 PM
You're not wrong, and if a doctor clears Zach and Zach thinks he's good to go, then I objectively support it. However, I can't help but feel that me watching a game by a guy who has gotten his brain so beat up is doing him a disservice. I believe fully in personal responsibility, but if the hit he takes in a Bomber uniform is the one that spells him to spend his elder years slurring his sentences and slurring his words, then I can't help but feel we played some sort of role in that.

Yes, all players take a risk when they step out in the field, but ZC is an exception given his history. He is more affected by this risk than any other player in the league I can think of right now.

Realistically we have no idea how many guys are walking concussions in the CFL and have just been lucky the past few years. Many guys come to our league with a long list of concussions suffered in other leagues, college, and HS. There was one guy from the Argos a few years back who retired and stated he had over 10 concussions in college and was lucky enough to not have any as a pro.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 10, 2019, 05:09:21 PM
I have zero problem with this trade. The problem I have is with MOS. I've rarely seen a guy so loyal to a fault. Streveler was struggling badly last game. MOS needs to exercise some self-awareness and game awareness and pull. The kid should have been pulled at least somewhere's in the third if only to give him a timeout to look at the field and D formations from the sidelines. And also to shake him him a bit. My point: If Strev struggles will MOS have the wherewithal to pull him and put Collaros in? It doesn't necessarily have to be for the rest of the game if only to give Zach some live reps with the offence and get him onboard if any kind of legitimate run is to take place.

I doubt Collaros is on the game day AR this week. Next week it will become the question.

If we win this week we're guaranteed no lower than 3rd. Ideally I'd like to see the Riders defeat the Stamps. That would give us an opportunity to end up in 2nd winning 1 or 2 remaining games.

I suppose both the Stamps and Bombers could lose this week. That still would allow 1 win in 2 games against the Stamps to get 2nd place. Bombers would win with season series advantage.

If the Stamps win and the Bombers lose then we're going to need to win both games against the Stamps to get 2nd place.

Destiny for 2nd place is still in our control at the moment. 1st place might be mathematically possible but a very long shot.





Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 10, 2019, 05:10:59 PM
that's a complex answer... what happened to 'win as a team, lose as a team'??

That's never been my mantra. Teams lose because some part of the team didn't play as well as their counterpart.



Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 10, 2019, 05:13:27 PM
One thought, they want to see if he can take some hits without being responsible for it.

But no way is Pinball going to sign him.  They are going after Arbuckle or Mazoli.



As they should. Both are much better and younger.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 10, 2019, 05:17:40 PM
I have zero problem with this trade. The problem I have is with MOS. I've rarely seen a guy so loyal to a fault. Streveler was struggling badly last game. MOS needs to exercise some self-awareness and game awareness and pull. The kid should have been pulled at least somewhere's in the third if only to give him a timeout to look at the field and D formations from the sidelines. And also to shake him him a bit. My point: If Strev struggles will MOS have the wherewithal to pull him and put Collaros in? It doesn't necessarily have to be for the rest of the game if only to give Zach some live reps with the offence and get him onboard if any kind of legitimate run is to take place.

You would have pulled your only QB with a chance to win you the game in a 5 point game? That would have been stupid. You forget that the Rider game was a one play game until late in the 4th Q.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: bomb squad on October 10, 2019, 05:19:06 PM
Dr's don't protect people from themselves. Example... My FIL, 89, can't feel his feet, can't make quick decisions, can't see or hear properly, has two accidents in a month cuz he pressed the gas instead of the break. That was several years ago. Goes to his Dr every year to get the medical form signed to get his drivers license. (Don't worry, he doesn't have a car  anymore, but that's beside the point)

Yes... Thats where I draw the line. Huge difference between limping and not being able to think properly.

Different situation because it involves the safety of the public, rather than just the individual. Incidentally, when my dad had his strokes, they automatically revoked his licence each time and he had to fight like mad to get it back. It caused a rift in the family too, which I won't get in to.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: BlueGold8597 on October 10, 2019, 05:19:48 PM
Dr's don't protect people from themselves. Example... My FIL, 89, can't feel his feet, can't make quick decisions, can't see or hear properly, has two accidents in a month cuz he pressed the gas instead of the break. That was several years ago. Goes to his Dr every year to get the medical form signed to get his drivers license. (Don't worry, he doesn't have a car  anymore, but that's beside the point)

Yes... Thats where I draw the line. Huge difference between limping and not being able to think properly.

"I know one irresponsible doctor therefore all doctors are irresponsible".  I believe this is not a sound argument.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on October 10, 2019, 05:26:09 PM
"I know one irresponsible doctor therefore all doctors are irresponsible".  I believe this is not a sound argument.
Maybe you just don't understand how an example works. FTR: He changed Dr's. Both give him his driving licence. That's 2 out of 2 so far.

Different situation because it involves the safety of the public, rather than just the individual. Incidentally, when my dad had his strokes, they automatically revoked his licence each time and he had to fight like mad to get it back. It caused a rift in the family too, which I won't get in to.

It involves his saftey as well as the safety of the public.

Sounds like there is a medical reason your Dad shouldn't be driving. That's 3 out of 3.



Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: dd on October 10, 2019, 05:33:42 PM
One thought, they want to see if he can take some hits without being responsible for it.

But no way is Pinball going to sign him.  They are going after Arbuckle or Mazoli.


As will Ottawa and i m hoping the Bombers. Point is, there?s no guarantee he?s going to get either.

I m puzzled as to why Toronto traded for Collaros to begin with, only to trade him away without him ever taking a snap, and you can?t tell me Collaros isn?t better than franklin, he?s simply terrible. Makes zero sense.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on October 10, 2019, 05:37:11 PM
The 64 dollar question? Must have owned the Riders a favor. lol.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: dd on October 10, 2019, 05:41:47 PM
Pinball better hope Collaros doesn?t come in a light things up as they could have salvaged their season if they put him in and win a few games. Going with mat and franklin just makes zero sense, that team isn?t going anywhere with those guys under centre.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: bluengold204 on October 10, 2019, 05:48:27 PM
Maybe you just don't understand how an example works. FTR: He changed Dr's. Both give him his driving licence. That's 2 out of 2 so far.

It involves his saftey as well as the safety of the public.

Sounds like there is a medical reason your Dad shouldn't be driving. That's 3 out of 3.



If your father in law cant feel his feet it sounds like a medical reason he shouldn't be driving.  That's 1 out of 3.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: the paw on October 10, 2019, 06:15:08 PM
Assuming you (or others) get to decide for him, when exactly do you tell him he can't play football anymore? After the second one in 2018? Why? When your conscious starts acting up? After the latest one? Should Loffler be allowed to play again even though his knee is obviously shot and it will probably limit his mobility when he gets older? We've seen some guys retire very early. We've some many more keep trying. It's up to the athlete.

I reject the libertarian position that adults can assume any risk for cash and our entertainment, and that we are morally untouched. 

My moral position, and the state of my conscience, are not 100% pure or consistent.  But I can reconcile myself to the possibility that someone might get catastrophically hurt (like Hefney) because those instances are relatively rare.  I can also go along with Loffler deciding to accept a limp later in life (or Walby's mangled fingers) as decisions and risks they are prepared to take.  The "cost" is acceptable.

Brain damage is a different kettle of fish.  Particularly when there is a clear historical pattern established here.  We are not talking about having trouble popping the cap on a bottle of beer, or needing to take a cart when you golf.  Brain injury can lead to depression, violent behavior, addiction and suicide.  That cost is not acceptable. 

I used to be the biggest fan of Muhammad Ali you could find. He is still one of my heroes.  But if you made me King of the World, boxing and UFC would be banned tomorrow. 


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 10, 2019, 06:23:07 PM
I reject the libertarian position that adults can assume any risk for cash and our entertainment, and that we are morally untouched. 

My moral position, and the state of my conscience, are not 100% pure or consistent.  But I can reconcile myself to the possibility that someone might get catastrophically hurt (like Hefney) because those instances are relatively rare.  I can also go along with Loffler deciding to accept a limp later in life (or Walby's mangled fingers) as decisions and risks they are prepared to take.  The "cost" is acceptable.

Brain damage is a different kettle of fish.  Particularly when there is a clear historical pattern established here.  We are not talking about having trouble popping the cap on a bottle of beer, or needing to take a cart when you golf.  Brain injury can lead to depression, violent behavior, addiction and suicide.  That cost is not acceptable. 

I used to be the biggest fan of Muhammad Ali you could find. He is still one of my heroes.  But if you made me King of the World, boxing and UFC would be banned tomorrow. 

That is certainly your personal choice. Myself, I am of the opinion that if he's going to insist on continuing his career then he may as well help us down the stretch. I do not feel sorry for him. He should have retired 2 years ago, I agree. Maybe pro sports needs to find a mechanism to rid those who are not making sound judgement on their future, but until then he will play somewhere...might as well be us. If that sounds callous...so be it.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on October 10, 2019, 06:57:10 PM
If your father in law cant feel his feet it sounds like a medical reason he shouldn't be driving.  That's 1 out of 3.
Despite that, 2 different Dr's have given him his license back. That's 2 out of 3.

Someone with a history of strokes probably shouldn't be driving. That's the 3rd.

Doesn't matter anyway. The point is that Dr's, who are supposed to protect people, don't always do it. I'm sure Dr's don't want to take Collaros' livelihood away from him and if it's a team Dr, they might err on the side of what's good for the team rather than what's best for the player. 

I don't agree that adults should be allowed to do whatever they want to no matter the risks to themselves or others, even if a Dr says it's OK.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: bomb squad on October 10, 2019, 07:06:16 PM
I reject the libertarian position that adults can assume any risk for cash and our entertainment, and that we are morally untouched. 

My moral position, and the state of my conscience, are not 100% pure or consistent.  But I can reconcile myself to the possibility that someone might get catastrophically hurt (like Hefney) because those instances are relatively rare.  I can also go along with Loffler deciding to accept a limp later in life (or Walby's mangled fingers) as decisions and risks they are prepared to take.  The "cost" is acceptable.

Brain damage is a different kettle of fish.  Particularly when there is a clear historical pattern established here.  We are not talking about having trouble popping the cap on a bottle of beer, or needing to take a cart when you golf.  Brain injury can lead to depression, violent behavior, addiction and suicide.  That cost is not acceptable. 

I used to be the biggest fan of Muhammad Ali you could find. He is still one of my heroes.  But if you made me King of the World, boxing and UFC would be banned tomorrow. 

Interesting and fair comment. As far as the Collaros case goes, all of us our looking in from the outside on this one. I prefer to give Collaros the benefit of the doubt that he has looked at all aspects of his particular situation, one that he himself is by far the most familiar with. And that he has calculated all the risks involved, and made the decision he feels is best for him at this time. I admit I am not completely comfortable with it. But that is my problem, not Zach's.



Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: swansong on October 10, 2019, 07:49:48 PM
I reject the libertarian position that adults can assume any risk for cash and our entertainment, and that we are morally untouched.

The notion that athletes compete simply for money or to entertain takes an intentionally narrow view. I wonder how many, if asked, would say, "Well yeah I hate football but I do it for the cash and the fans". My guess is the number would be so statistically insignificant as to not be worth mentioning.

Do skydivers dive for fame and fortune? BASE jumpers? Free climbers? You figure Evel Knievel did what he did for the money? Humans push themselves to their limits because that's part of being human. Athletes compete for the love of competition. It seems odd explaining this to a sports fan.

The absolute last thing people need are laws protecting them from themselves. Were one to start banning people from doing things with the potential to do serious harm to themselves just imagine all the things that would be prohibited. A "King of the World" would be endlessly busy dictating behaviour.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 10, 2019, 07:52:21 PM
Interesting and fair comment. As far as the Collaros case goes, all of us our looking in from the outside on this one. I prefer to give Collaros the benefit of the doubt that he has looked at all aspects of his particular situation, one that he himself is by far the most familiar with. And that he has calculated all the risks involved, and made the decision he feels is best for him at this time. I admit I am not completely comfortable with it. But that is my problem, not Zach's.



Given a choice to accept that risk for $450K, most players are going to accept that risk. Consider that this concussion was severe enough in a long history of concussions for him to NOT play the last 14 straight games.

I don't know what his post football career will be but there is a good chance his money will be nothing like it is in football.



Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: bomb squad on October 10, 2019, 08:00:45 PM
Given a choice to accept that risk for $450K, most players are going to accept that risk. Consider that this concussion was severe enough in a long history of concussions for him to NOT play the last 14 straight games.

I don't know what his post football career will be but there is a good chance his money will be nothing like it is in football.



I'm pretty sure he took a trim on that with the Riders last year. But you're right, the money no doubt does play a role.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 10, 2019, 08:47:50 PM
That's never been my mantra. Teams lose because some part of the team didn't play as well as their counterpart.



nor mine... if you lose, somebody or bodies are at fault...  there ya go, we agree!  ;D


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue newt on October 10, 2019, 09:53:47 PM
I read a book a while back about sport, injuries, and fandom.  I think it was called Game Misconduct.  It interviewed primarily ex-hockey players and fans, but it was still an interesting insight into the world behind-the-scenes of sport injury and the pressure to perform.  Anyhow, just mentioning it because of all the talk about the morality behind being entertained watching someone play who may be prone to concussions, in case anyone is interested in reading a bit more about the topic.  The stories of guys feeling pressured to play on broken limbs, or guys who are concussed but hide it are pretty saddening.  It reassures me that so many fans here are reluctant to see Collaros play because of the potential for his future hardship.  Maybe football fans have more empathy than hockey fans  ;)



Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Jesse on October 10, 2019, 11:29:45 PM
So you're good with mobility risks you're just not good with concussion related symptoms? Is that where your conscious draws the line?

100%

Does anyone remember Dickenson literally crawling lot of the field in his last game, unable to stay on his feet? That's an image I do not need to see again.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 10, 2019, 11:48:55 PM
The notion that athletes compete simply for money or to entertain takes an intentionally narrow view. I wonder how many, if asked, would say, "Well yeah I hate football but I do it for the cash and the fans". My guess is the number would be so statistically insignificant as to not be worth mentioning.

Do skydivers dive for fame and fortune? BASE jumpers? Free climbers? You figure Evel Knievel did what he did for the money? Humans push themselves to their limits because that's part of being human. Athletes compete for the love of competition. It seems odd explaining this to a sports fan.

The absolute last thing people need are laws protecting them from themselves. Were one to start banning people from doing things with the potential to do serious harm to themselves just imagine all the things that would be prohibited. A "King of the World" would be endlessly busy dictating behaviour.


Honest question, after so many concussions do you think Collaros would continue to pursue his football career if his salary was below $100,000 and not in the range of $400,000?


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 11, 2019, 01:12:07 AM
I thought it was stupid of Regina to sign Collaros this year, stupid of Toronto to trade for him and stupid of Winnipeg to trade for him.

Collaros shouldn't be playing football any more. I'd feel horrible if he goes down playing for us.

It's not "stupid".  The more I think about it, the more I bet Collaros to TOR was just for optic too.  TOR had to look like they were doing something.  Didn't save Popp his job though, but his team had way more problems than just optics would fix.

Now, if we say in a day that Collaros is our #1 starter the rest of the way?  Then that is stupid.

As for feeling horrible if he goes down... Bryant better be on his A game if Collaros gets on the field!!  ;)


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 11, 2019, 01:15:20 AM
Not sure if ZC is better than Nichols, but he sure isn't a lot worse... depending on what shape he is in physically and mentally...  if Pinball is already considering bringing him back for next year, that is a pretty good indication that things are OK...

Nichols is light years better than Collaros at this juncture.  Collaros hasn't played good ball for at least 3-4 years.  He was still INT-prone and his scrambled head couldn't see the field properly.  I think they rushed him back too fast and he needed more time.  So maybe he would be a bit better now.  But to say he's remotely as good as Nichols?  Pfffftt.

You want proof?  How much winning do you think SSK would be doing this year had Collaros played every game?  I'd say he'd lose all those close ones, which was like 3/4s of SSK's games.  Remember, no running to bail them out with Collaros.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: swansong on October 11, 2019, 02:05:48 AM
Honest question, after so many concussions do you think Collaros would continue to pursue his football career if his salary was below $100,000 and not in the range of $400,000?

Couldn't tell you. But that wasn't the goal post set out in the post I responded to. It was a contention that guys, generally, risk their health engaging in a sport for money and for the fans.

When Zach or any other player was out in the park with his friends when he was a kid playing football he wasn't dreaming of big pay days or what the fans wanted. He was dreaming of playing in the majors with the camaraderie of his teammates and throwing the game winning touchdown to win a championship to the roar of the crowd. That's what motivated him to play...to train...to fight through the pain.

But...if a guy wants to risk his health to have a pay day what business is it of ours? Guys risk their lives everyday in various occupations to make a fraction of what he makes and I don't see anyone moralizing about loggers or commercial fishermen.



Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: BLUEBOMBER on October 11, 2019, 03:07:18 AM
Overall still a good move by Walter's. It shows we havent given up on this season. It does show that Strev is not our #1 moving forward.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 11, 2019, 03:18:52 AM
Overall still a good move by Walter's. It shows we havent given up on this season. It does show that Strev is not our #1 moving forward.

how is that, exactly?  I mean, how does signing a QB that you hope you don't have to use mean that Streveler is somehow on the outside looking in?


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 11, 2019, 03:52:37 AM
how is that, exactly?  I mean, how does signing a QB that you hope you don't have to use mean that Streveler is somehow on the outside looking in?

It doesn't


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on October 11, 2019, 04:19:42 AM
Wasn't Collaris 10-4 before getting injured last year?


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: swansong on October 11, 2019, 05:09:41 AM
O'Shea did speak to Streveler immediately after the trade was completed and said he doesn't have any concerns about how the second-year pro will handle the arrival of a veteran like Collaros.

Chris is a pro. I've said it right from the get-go, one of the things that was really cool to see from Strev was how much of a pro he was in his prep and his understanding of being a pro quarterback and leading a team, said O'Shea. When I talked to Strev yesterday after the trade went down he said it doesn't change anything in his prep work or how he thinks. He was preparing to win a football game and lead a team. It doesn't change anything.

https://www.bluebombers.com/2019/10/10/guy-awesome-team-happy-collaros-board/


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: rubanski on October 11, 2019, 01:58:55 PM
"I know one irresponsible doctor therefore all doctors are irresponsible".  I believe this is not a sound argument.

Correct, it's not a sound argument, but it wasn't meant to be. Some here have basically said "some doctor cleared him, therefore I have no objection to him playing again" which is a fundamentally flawed perspective.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 11, 2019, 02:10:28 PM
Stack up Kevin Glenn's numbers up to both of those guys...he must be far more exceptional than either of the two combined according to your logic.

LOL... not an option (thankfully)

but sure:
   gp      comp      att       %                 yds      td      int         %                  avg
                                             
73      1361      2076      0.655587669   16758      92      51      0.554347826      8.1   
                                             
86      1582      2373      0.666666667   18363      108      60      0.555555556     7.7   
                                             
268      4068      6434   0.632266086      52867      294      207   0.704081633      8.2


So, worse completion %, way worse TD/INT ratio, marginally better yds per catch... 


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 11, 2019, 02:15:53 PM
I guess it depends on desire and options. 

If your desire is huge, and football is everything to you, you are going to take the chance. 

If you can make $400k playing football, and $60k in your non football career, you may choose the risk for the payday.

Cornish, Goossen are a prime examples of having a viable post football option.  I have no idea what Collaros' post game career options are...


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Darwinismyhomeboy on October 11, 2019, 03:05:17 PM
Sweet heaven.  Someone at work just told me and I assumed he was joking.   I'm usually a fan of Walters moves, but this is painful.  How is this man able to clear a physical?  Defensive game planning when playing the Bombers.... Just look at the QB really hard and he'll go down.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 11, 2019, 03:09:28 PM
LOL... not an option (thankfully)

but sure:
   gp      comp      att       %                 yds      td      int         %                  avg
                                             
73      1361      2076      0.655587669   16758      92      51      0.554347826      8.1   
                                             
86      1582      2373      0.666666667   18363      108      60      0.555555556     7.7   
                                             
268      4068      6434   0.632266086      52867      294      207   0.704081633      8.2


So, worse completion %, way worse TD/INT ratio, marginally better yds per catch... 

If you were going straight off the stats KG would be the hands down winner. Not even close. However, as I have been trying to point out career stats are meaningless in a decision of who is better right now. Nichols is a far better QB, light years better, than Collaros right now. That doesn't mean Collaros can't come in and help us, or even guide us to the wins we need, it's just illustrating the fact that you are way over selling his ability to do so. With Nichols in our line up right now we would easily be GC favorites, with Collaros we have an outside chance.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 11, 2019, 03:26:04 PM
If you were going straight off the stats KG would be the hands down winner. Not even close. However, as I have been trying to point out career stats are meaningless in a decision of who is better right now. Nichols is a far better QB, light years better, than Collaros right now. That doesn't mean Collaros can't come in and help us, or even guide us to the wins we need, it's just illustrating the fact that you are way over selling his ability to do so. With Nichols in our line up right now we would easily be GC favorites, with Collaros we have an outside chance.

And with Streveler?  Or McGuire?


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: bluengold204 on October 11, 2019, 03:30:12 PM
And with Streveler?  Or McGuire?

outside chance


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: dd on October 11, 2019, 03:39:48 PM
And with Streveler?  Or McGuire?
Steveler-Slim, outside chance, McGuire-no chance


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 11, 2019, 04:02:15 PM
So, Collaros improves our chance of winning the cup?  Then it is an awesome move by Walters, because that is his job, improve our chance of winning a cup...


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on October 11, 2019, 04:28:14 PM
So, Collaros improves our chance of winning the cup?  Then it is an awesome move by Walters, because that is his job, improve our chance of winning a cup...

I guess if trading for a concussion-plagued QB who hasn't played meaningful ball in ages marginally improves this sliding team's chances, sure... "Awesome" trade.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue girl on October 11, 2019, 04:52:13 PM
The way I see it is the Bomber offence put up 6 points last game and that isn't going to win anything. I don't think that Collaros will ever see the field as a Bomber but if Streveler can't get this offence going he may have to. Collaros gives this team and it's fans a little bit of hope.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: dd on October 11, 2019, 06:43:30 PM
From what I saw last game, yes, this is an ?awesome? trade. We can?t stay put with a 6 point outing , we need some sort of hope. He was the best available option for us without giving up much and I don?t consider a 3rd round pick much. Time will tell how good this trade was, but Walters did his job here and got us competent experienced help to manage and win us games.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 11, 2019, 09:15:20 PM
I hope Streveler plays well and doesn't get injured requiring Collaros to play this season.

If Collaros does need to play it's more of the opposite. I hope he doesn't get injured and then hope he play well as the after thought.

He'll probably dress on the AR next week but IMO we see McGuire before we see Collaros. If a change has to be made. Even then I think that only happens if Streveler gets injured.



Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: dd on October 11, 2019, 09:27:16 PM
We ll see how tonight goes. If streveler has gone full Franklin on us and can?t move the ball or score, we ll have no choice but to put someone in as the fans will be howling like wolves


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue girl on October 11, 2019, 09:52:07 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Collaros stays as the third QB. After all apparently the reason that no veteran QBs would come here was that they didn't want to be #3.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: dd on October 11, 2019, 10:10:24 PM
I think he ll start off as #3 until he gets a better grasp of the playbook


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: BigBomberFan on October 12, 2019, 12:36:05 AM
But...if a guy wants to risk his health to have a pay day what business is it of ours? Guys risk their lives everyday in various occupations to make a fraction of what he makes and I don't see anyone moralizing about loggers or commercial fishermen.

Incredible point, and I totally agree. One could go further and say that police, firefighters and the military also risk their lives daily in their job.

I've been concerned about Collaros' long term health, but I also realize that he still wants to prove something with his career. Can't fault a guy for that.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Dodge and Burn on October 12, 2019, 02:19:56 AM
There is zero chance from my pov we resign him this offseason. 

Its obvious he is swooped in to win a few games during the playoffs if needed.

We know I dont have much confidence in our boy strev. Nor do I think he can win a playoff game. 

I do think ZC could win a few games with this team.

Id start his *** last regular season game and ride him all playoffs.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: swansong on October 12, 2019, 03:47:49 AM
Incredible point, and I totally agree. One could go further and say that police, firefighters and the military also risk their lives daily in their job.

I've been concerned about Collaros' long term health, but I also realize that he still wants to prove something with his career. Can't fault a guy for that.

Exactly.

The only thing I'll mention is, that in the list of most dangerous jobs, cops don't even crack the top 10, especially in Canada. It's more dangerous to be a cab driver than a cop.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on October 12, 2019, 03:54:07 AM
Exactly.

The only thing I'll mention is, that in the list of most dangerous jobs, cops don't even crack the top 10, especially in Canada. It's more dangerous to be a cab driver than a cop.
yeah....cops have guns, gear and backup.....cab drivers not so much!


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: swansong on October 12, 2019, 04:09:49 AM
yeah....cops have guns, gear and backup.....cab drivers not so much!

You got it, LL. That is precisely the point.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on October 12, 2019, 04:17:25 AM
You got it, LL. That is precisely the point.
Interestingly enough, garbage truck drivers clock in at #6!   


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: BBRT on October 12, 2019, 02:23:01 PM
Interestingly enough, garbage truck drivers clock in at #6!   

You guys are all off base! The most dangerous job in the world? Being a Bomber Fan posting over on the Rider Fan Forum! :)


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: toolsinbox on October 12, 2019, 06:29:12 PM
This is all window dressing from Management too the players. " We are doing everything we can to win"!  Thats the message here.
Its a zero sum trade and ZC never takes a snap. JMHO


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 12, 2019, 09:55:14 PM
I hope he gets a few series in the games against Calgary...  just to shake off the rust in case... and to change things up...  like leaving Streveler in for a package after a short yardage play...  give him a series or two...


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Tiger on October 13, 2019, 01:56:26 AM
He was on the sidelines today with Streveler and McGuire and the coaches reviewing plays.  Street clothes and BB toque.   He was also catching ball for QBs to warm up.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue girl on October 13, 2019, 02:32:36 AM
I still doubt that we see him at all. It's just not O'Sheas way.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 13, 2019, 02:35:51 AM
We might see him if Strev got hurt.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on October 13, 2019, 01:39:49 PM
The only way we see Collaros on the field is if Streveler gets hurt. For that reason, I hope we don't ever see Collaros on the field in a Bomber uniform.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 13, 2019, 02:12:40 PM
Streveler is continuing to improve. He's still making mistakes and telegraphing reads but it's not unusual for a 2nd year QB. His athleticism off sets his passing problems at the moment.

Barring injury I expect him to lead the way into the play offs. 5 more wins :)


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: iso_55 on October 14, 2019, 05:25:29 PM
I just hope we don't re-sign him. He's not worth a 1st rounder. The guy will not help us.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on October 14, 2019, 05:30:09 PM
I just hope we don't re-sign him. He's not worth a 1st rounder. The guy will not help us.

We won't be re-signing him. He's not in the long term plans.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 14, 2019, 05:40:32 PM
We won't be re-signing him. He's not in the long term plans.

Zach has become a pawn and he knows it, he's just stretching out his career as long as he can at this point.  I don't think any team will seriously consider signing him next year and the league should put in place a mechanism to protect severely concussed players from doing further damage to themselves, 3 strikes and yer out kind of thing.  It wouldn't be perfect and it probably be subject to abuse but it's better than having no restrictions in place.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 14, 2019, 06:39:20 PM
Zach has become a pawn and he knows it, he's just stretching out his career as long as he can at this point.  I don't think any team will seriously consider signing him next year and the league should put in place a mechanism to protect severely concussed players from doing further damage to themselves, 3 strikes and yer out kind of thing.  It wouldn't be perfect and it probably be subject to abuse but it's better than having no restrictions in place.

Collaros was brought to Winnipeg for nothing more than optics... The Bombers have no plans to put him on the field and I seriously doubt he plans on seeing the field again, ever... right now he's just milking a paycheck for as long as someone is willing to give him one...

the Bombers brought his here to appease fans and show that we are prepared for the playoff run... but they wouldn't actually play him, he was cheap so they picked him up... even if Streveler got hurt he won't see the field, McGuire would... but imagine the uproar if Streveler got hurt during a game and McGuire went in, then we wouldn't have a back up in case he got hurt without a #3 on the sideline...

but, if #3 is standing on the sidelines in street clothes it really doesn't matter... but regardless, the best that could be said about him is is 'veteran experience'... as of late his actual on field performance isn't anything to brag about and I doubt it would be better than McGuire's... the only thing that he would bring with him to a game that McGuire couldn't would be making better decision with the ball... that's it...

based upon what we saw in the preseason it's obvious that McGuire can play the position, we would know the playbook way better than Collaros too, even 3 weeks from now he would... people just lose their minds because of the thought of putting a rookie at the helm... I say it's still better to put a rookie out there than a washed up, under performing veteran...

and that first round draft pick is safe as well... it's easy to agree to something when you know that there is no way it hell that it's going to have to actually happen...


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 14, 2019, 06:48:58 PM
If Streveler does get injured I'm all for seeing what McGuire brings to the table.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 14, 2019, 06:49:56 PM
If Streveler does get injured I'm all for seeing what McGuire brings to the table.

I think it makes the most sense...


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on October 14, 2019, 06:58:01 PM
If Streveler does get injured I'm all for seeing what McGuire brings to the table.

When there are no playoff or standings implications, sure.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 14, 2019, 07:10:12 PM
When there are no playoff or standings implications, sure.

and this is why Collaros is here, for the optics... it makes the fans feel like we're 'covered' in case of unthinkable... but do you actually believe that there is even a remote chance that Collaros will ever see the field as a Bomber, even if Streveler got hurt? I don't...


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on October 14, 2019, 07:23:52 PM
and this is why Collaros is here, for the optics... it makes the fans feel like we're 'covered' in case of unthinkable... but do you actually believe that there is even a remote chance that Collaros will ever see the field as a Bomber, even if Streveler got hurt? I don't...

I do. I legit think he's the number 2 if that's the case. I don't think he's a superstar anymore or our saviour, but as the depth chart stands right now, he gives us the best chance to win in that scenario.

There is an optics side to it and we don't want to see him have to take snaps, but I think that's the direction we go if there's no Strev #godhelpus


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 14, 2019, 07:34:52 PM
I do. I legit think he's the number 2 if that's the case. I don't think he's a superstar anymore or our saviour, but as the depth chart stands right now, he gives us the best chance to win in that scenario.

There is an optics side to it and we don't want to see him have to take snaps, but I think that's the direction we go if there's no Strev #godhelpus

interesting... I see what you're saying but I'm not sure I agree... even if it were to happen 2 weeks from now I'm not sure how much of the playbook he'd actually be able to execute successfully... I agree his 'been there, done that' as a professional QB is an asset, but would he be more or less effective overall than McGuire given the fact that he has been here all year and been practicing our playbook weekly with the team?

I don't know, but, let's all hope we don't have to find out, lol...  #godhelpus  ;D


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: iso_55 on October 14, 2019, 08:02:54 PM
Zach has become a pawn and he knows it, he's just stretching out his career as long as he can at this point.  I don't think any team will seriously consider signing him next year and the league should put in place a mechanism to protect severely concussed players from doing further damage to themselves, 3 strikes and yer out kind of thing.  It wouldn't be perfect and it probably be subject to abuse but it's better than having no restrictions in place.
It's sad that general managers & coaches are willing to sacrifice his long term health for a championship. I'd never do it but some people have no trouble sleeping at night, I guess. Signing him next season would be a travesty.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on October 14, 2019, 08:13:51 PM
and this is why Collaros is here, for the optics... it makes the fans feel like we're 'covered' in case of unthinkable... but do you actually believe that there is even a remote chance that Collaros will ever see the field as a Bomber, even if Streveler got hurt? I don't...
I don't think Collaros is here for the 'optics' at all. The optics of bringing in a guy who lasted 3 plays this year before taking yet another concussion aren't good. The optics of bringing in a player who hasn't been good for several seasons isn't good either.

If Streveler goes down, I expect to see Collaros. There is no other reason to bring in a 'vet' QB. We already have a vet presence on the sideline. Collaros is an insurance policy that I hope we never need to cash in.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 14, 2019, 08:32:57 PM
I don't think Collaros is here for the 'optics' at all. The optics of bringing in a guy who lasted 3 plays this year before taking yet another concussion aren't good. The optics of bringing in a player who hasn't been good for several seasons isn't good either.

If Streveler goes down, I expect to see Collaros. There is no other reason to bring in a 'vet' QB. We already have a vet presence on the sideline. Collaros is an insurance policy that I hope we never need to cash in.

yet everyone else, well a lot of people, thought we did... so they did...


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 14, 2019, 08:34:24 PM
When there are no playoff or standings implications, sure.

It's probable that both our last 2 games have play off implications. Of course if we're being blown out in one of these games then that goes out the window.

Any chance of finishing higher than 3rd means winning both games while either the Riders or Stamps tank.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: dd on October 14, 2019, 08:49:09 PM
We are in playoff ball right now. Everybody knows how important home field is. If strev gets hurt, bank on seeing Collaros as Walters brought him here for that very reason. After the playoffs are done it?s anyone?s guess what happens both on the field and on the sidelines but change is coming


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue girl on October 14, 2019, 09:01:40 PM
If the Bombers were only bringing in a QB for 'optics' they would have at least made an offer to Brandon Bridge. IMO this is about doing whatever is necessary to win a Grey Cup. If Streveler struggles in the playoffs then they have to at least try putting Collaros in. This also takes away O'Sheas we didn't have a veteran QB excuse if they don't win at least one game.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: dd on October 14, 2019, 09:21:08 PM
Brandon bridge isn?t as good as a Qb as strev is, and he?s just as inexperienced. Collaros is the vet that we needed for our playoff run.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: bomb squad on October 14, 2019, 09:22:13 PM
If the Bombers were only bringing in a QB for 'optics' they would have at least made an offer to Brandon Bridge. IMO this is about doing whatever is necessary to win a Grey Cup. If Streveler struggles in the playoffs then they have to at least try putting Collaros in. This also takes away O'Sheas we didn't have a veteran QB excuse if they don't win at least one game.
[/b]

You really think he would do that?


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: lenny on October 14, 2019, 09:33:17 PM
I don't think Collaros is just optics. The next games will be a gauge for Strev and the uncertainty as to performance will definitely result in Collaros getting some viable reps. I can't imagine Strev unable to move the offence and OSH continuing with the status quo at any given time. Being pulled will be OSH's only option. Not to do so creates an ambarrassment to the organization.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: 66 Chevelle on October 14, 2019, 09:45:51 PM
if we can continue to play like last week Collaros will never see the field... we had over 400 yards of total offense and a 10 minute advantage in time of possession... oh, and we won...

Collaros should be wearing a helmet on the sidelines, even in street clothes, for his own good...


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue girl on October 14, 2019, 10:22:02 PM
I'm just saying that this team has to do whatever they can to win in the playoffs. Six years and so far only one playoff win. The time for excuses is over.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 15, 2019, 04:27:31 AM
I'm just saying that this team has to do whatever they can to win in the playoffs. Six years and so far only one playoff win. The time for excuses is over.

I agree, if the Bombers find themselves in a low scoring playoff game down by 10 midway through the 4th Q and Strev. hasn't scored or moved the ball effectively all game, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Collaros trot onto the field at some point.  Most likely too little too late and it might be the equivalent of a Medlock 61 yd. FG in a domed stadium but I believe O'Shea would pull out all stops with playoff elimination on the line.  If only because he has Walters, Miller and every football fan in MB. to answer to for not doing so. 


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 15, 2019, 05:18:51 AM
interesting... I see what you're saying but I'm not sure I agree... even if it were to happen 2 weeks from now I'm not sure how much of the playbook he'd actually be able to execute successfully... I agree his 'been there, done that' as a professional QB is an asset, but would he be more or less effective overall than McGuire given the fact that he has been here all year and been practicing our playbook weekly with the team?

I don't know, but, let's all hope we don't have to find out, lol...  #godhelpus  ;D

Being a late-comer you might not know this about Collaros but at one he was magic, there's no comparison, the young Collaros makes a young Streveler look like Robert Marve.  He started in relief of Ricky Ray for the Argos when Ray was knocked out for the  2013 season and basically adlibbed his way to a 10-5 record, running and gunning all the way.  He started off with 4 straight victories, 3 of which came on a difficult Western road trip beginning in week 4, this was a remarkable achievement for an Argo team at the time even with Ray, and he pulled it off with very little preparation.  It took years for the Bombers to finally find a way to defeat this guy and it was only injuries that stilted his mobility and brought him down to their level.  Sadly he's not the QB he once was, but I think there is little doubt he still knows his way around a CFL playbook.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 15, 2019, 01:31:26 PM
So, Collaros improves our chance of winning the cup?  Then it is an awesome move by Walters, because that is his job, improve our chance of winning a cup...

Collaros was a necessary trade but far from awesome. Sometimes you just gotta hold your nose and do what you gotta do but all this does is bring us up from no chance if McGuire were to start to an extremely slim chance with Collaros.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 15, 2019, 01:33:10 PM
Brandon bridge isn?t as good as a Qb as strev is, and he?s just as inexperienced. Collaros is the vet that we needed for our playoff run.

Might as well give the ball to McGuire if anyone is thinking that Bridge is a better option. With Collaros, at least you have the off chance that he has a good game. He does have one once in a blue moon.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 15, 2019, 01:36:27 PM
Regular season, McGuire is teh injury replacement.  Post season, Collaros.  You don't "see what McGuire's got" in a one and done scenario....


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 15, 2019, 01:36:59 PM
Being a late-comer you might not know this about Collaros but at one he was magic, there's no comparison, the young Collaros makes a young Streveler look like Robert Marve.  He started in relief of Ricky Ray for the Argos when Ray was knocked out for the  2013 season and basically adlibbed his way to a 10-5 record, running and gunning all the way.  He started off with 4 straight victories, 3 of which came on a difficult Western road trip beginning in week 4, this was a remarkable achievement for an Argo team at the time even with Ray, and he pulled it off with very little preparation.  It took years for the Bombers to finally find a way to defeat this guy and it was only injuries that stilted his mobility and brought him down to their level.  Sadly he's not the QB he once was, but I think there is little doubt he still knows his way around a CFL playbook.

I think what the Bombers looked at was what he did last year in Regina. His defence played lights out and he was able to give them just enough rest to win the games for the Riders. He's not going to march us back from a 10 pt deficit late in a game or anything like that but he has a proven ability, much like Nichols, to come out with the W even though his stats are underwhelming.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Norm W on October 15, 2019, 01:46:30 PM
I stuck the following into the wrong thread, my theory rant fits better in this thread....

No definitive evidence for the following, its just my theory. The discussion about Streveler's reduction in passing and his return to a more productive running game. I think it corresponds with the signing and arrival of Zack Collaros. Prior to this signing the Bombers were in a difficult spot if Streveler went down due to injury. The next man up hasn't taken a snap in a CFL game, not the scenario you want to have for the play-off push, never mind try and end a very lengthy Grey Cup drought.

Without Collaros on the roster like it or not the team had no choice but to reign in the Streveler running game, it should be clear to all that had an injury occurred the Bombers would have been done. The team would have required a miracle from McGuire in order get a win in the play-offs never mind two wins that will be required to get to the Grey Cup and a 3rd to win it... Anybody think McGuire has three wins in him having never played a down in the CFL? Not a slight aimed at McGuire or his abilities but miracle is probably the wrong word for what would have been required.

We move forward to the Montreal game, Zack is wearing an ear piece on the sidelines listening to the calls and working with Nichols on the sidelines. Streveler is back to what makes for winning games... he's running. It comes down to risk management, the risk was too high in the weeks leading up to the Montreal game. Now the risk is tolerable, there is a viable option to keep winning in the event Streveler goes down because of his higher risk playing style. It's not the best option, Zack hasn't played in months, its a new offence and receivers he has no chemist with but it's clearly a better option than being forced to insert McGuire into your play-off push.

Expect to see the Bombers do what many are saying can't be done, keep winning with a run based offense. It's going to keep the deep middle open and catch some defenses crowding the box at the wrong moment...


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 15, 2019, 05:15:36 PM
I stuck the following into the wrong thread, my theory rant fits better in this thread....

No definitive evidence for the following, its just my theory. The discussion about Streveler's reduction in passing and his return to a more productive running game. I think it corresponds with the signing and arrival of Zack Collaros. Prior to this signing the Bombers were in a difficult spot if Streveler went down due to injury. The next man up hasn't taken a snap in a CFL game, not the scenario you want to have for the play-off push, never mind try and end a very lengthy Grey Cup drought.

Without Collaros on the roster like it or not the team had no choice but to reign in the Streveler running game, it should be clear to all that had an injury occurred the Bombers would have been done. The team would have required a miracle from McGuire in order get a win in the play-offs never mind two wins that will be required to get to the Grey Cup and a 3rd to win it... Anybody think McGuire has three wins in him having never played a down in the CFL? Not a slight aimed at McGuire or his abilities but miracle is probably the wrong word for what would have been required.

We move forward to the Montreal game, Zack is wearing an ear piece on the sidelines listening to the calls and working with Nichols on the sidelines. Streveler is back to what makes for winning games... he's running. It comes down to risk management, the risk was too high in the weeks leading up to the Montreal game. Now the risk is tolerable, there is a viable option to keep winning in the event Streveler goes down because of his higher risk playing style. It's not the best option, Zack hasn't played in months, its a new offence and receivers he has no chemist with but it's clearly a better option than being forced to insert McGuire into your play-off push.

Expect to see the Bombers do what many are saying can't be done, keep winning with a run based offense. It's going to keep the deep middle open and catch some defenses crowding the box at the wrong moment...

We will go as far as our OL run blocking will take us. We are not now, nor have we been under Lapolice, a pass first offence. I know lots of people here think of that as a flaw, but it's only a flaw if we can't do it. So far, we have been very successful as a run first team. In cold weather it is the right game plan imo.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 15, 2019, 05:18:24 PM
Regular season, McGuire is teh injury replacement.  Post season, Collaros.  You don't "see what McGuire's got" in a one and done scenario....

McGuire has been in camp since TC. If they don't know what he can do then it's another coaching fail. They've had 16 weeks to replace him with a better option.

Whether Collaros is a better option that's a TBD.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 15, 2019, 05:19:57 PM
McGuire has been in camp since TC. If they don't know what he can do then it's another coaching fail. They've had 16 weeks to replace him with a better option.

Whether Collaros is a better option that's a TBD.

They know what he can do and they brought in Collaros. Obviously they don't feel he is ready to start yet.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 15, 2019, 05:28:06 PM
They know what he can do and they brought in Collaros. Obviously they don't feel he is ready to start yet.

That's not entirely correct. The way Streveler plays he could well get injured before the end of the season. We needed a # 3 QB for depth better than the recent PR addition.

I'm not entirely convinced Collaros will be next up if Streveler gets hurt or struggles.

Reports are we even tried to convince Willy and Lulay to come out of retirement. Those wouldn't have convinced me they would be better options either.

Anyway. I still hope we don't have a need to pull Streveler for any reason.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on October 15, 2019, 06:28:06 PM
It's probable that both our last 2 games have play off implications. Of course if we're being blown out in one of these games then that goes out the window.

Any chance of finishing higher than 3rd means winning both games while either the Riders or Stamps tank.

Exactly correct. Therefore, no time this year to see what McGuire can do in live bullets.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 15, 2019, 07:28:00 PM
Exactly correct. Therefore, no time this year to see what McGuire can do in live bullets.

I expect the Bombers to be competitive against the Stamps. OTOH if we're down 34 - 0 at half time ( an exaggeration ) giving McGuire reps would be useful. Putting in Collaros won't help win the game and risks injury with no upside. Yes he'd get some game action but his experience already covers that.

We all know that sometimes a rookie getting his 1st action can be productive.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on October 15, 2019, 07:41:41 PM
I expect the Bombers to be competitive against the Stamps. OTOH if we're down 34 - 0 at half time ( an exaggeration ) giving McGuire reps would be useful. Putting in Collaros won't help win the game and risks injury with no upside. Yes he'd get some game action but his experience already covers that.

We all know that sometimes a rookie getting his 1st action can be productive.

Yeah maybe. Although, I'd argue that Zach could use a little game action going into the playoffs if such an opportunity presents itself. He played a series in early June and hasn't played since, and was not playing for the better part of the previous several seasons. That's a long time to be out even for a vet.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Ridermania on October 15, 2019, 07:50:11 PM
Zach needs a few series during the last two Bomber games to be ready ( if needed ) in the play-offs.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: BLUEBOMBER on October 15, 2019, 08:00:24 PM
Wow.. if we tried Willy and Lulay, we must have been very desperate.  How about Tate, Jyles, Crompton, or even Pierce?  Seems like CFL QBs don't last as long as they used to.  Are defenders getting nastier with their hits or are QBs just not as good at taking hits anymore?  Maybe need to find a way to protect QBs better with better gear or rules.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue girl on October 15, 2019, 09:17:36 PM
I read that they tried to get Glenn, Willy and Lulay here but they didn't want to come because they would be the #3 QB. As for the injuries a lot of them have been either noncontact or caused by the way the QB landed.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 16, 2019, 06:39:37 AM
Without Collaros on the roster like it or not the team had no choice but to reign in the Streveler running game, it should be clear to all that had an injury occurred the Bombers would have been done.

Streveler is back to what makes for winning games... he's running. It comes down to risk management, the risk was too high in the weeks leading up to the Montreal game. Now the risk is tolerable

Streveler Unleashed!

Great point, and possibly true.  At least as good a theory as my "optics only" one.  It may seem a bit callous for us to throw Strev to the wolves, so to speak, but I'm sure it's what he wants anyhow.  Wins or bust!

I also agree with Aards that, if Strev goes down, in-season we see McGuire first and post-season we see Zach first.

This may be one of those situations where everyone is right.  Optics, unleashing, and playoff horse all in one trade for a 3rd round DP.  Sounds like a good trade to me, and I'm the leader of the Zach-is-meh Club.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TecnoGenius on October 16, 2019, 06:45:26 AM
I read that they tried to get Glenn, Willy and Lulay here but they didn't want to come because they would be the #3 QB. As for the injuries a lot of them have been either noncontact or caused by the way the QB landed the 330lb DT pancaked the QB.

Fixed it for you.

Non-contact: Masoli, BLM, Harris
DT pancake: Nichols, Reilly
Concussion: Collaros, Franklin

Don't remember (fill in the blanks please): Pipkin, Davis

Depending on those last 2, that's at least 4 (maybe 6) possibly-preventable QB injuries.  I know which type matters most to me, as that pancake ruined our year.

Do we really want a league where 9 #1 QBs go down every year?  And lo and behold the big winners in all of this are the only ones (well, TO doesn't count) to get their #1 back: CGY.  The football gods just love those Stamps.  Well, seeing as how this year has gone, I wouldn't be surprised if BLM breaks his whatever before 2019 is done.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 16, 2019, 01:42:48 PM
McGuire has been in camp since TC. If they don't know what he can do then it's another coaching fail. They've had 16 weeks to replace him with a better option.

Whether Collaros is a better option that's a TBD.

They know what he can do "in practice", its what he can do in a live fire game that is the question...

Collaros has a long history of solid live fire game play...  it won't be an issue of his head, just his health


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on October 16, 2019, 01:45:10 PM
Exactly correct. Therefore, no time this year to see what McGuire can do in live bullets.

In the games against Calgary, yes.  But not in a one and done situation...

McGuire and Collaros should split the reps in the final game if we lose the next one.  We will have no chance of hosting a home game, it is a meaningless game, and vital for knowing what to do post season if we have injury or worse, turnovers...




Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: BBRT on October 16, 2019, 01:49:09 PM
In the games against Calgary, yes.  But not in a one and done situation...

McGuire and Collaros should split the reps in the final game if we lose the next one.  We will have no chance of hosting a home game, it is a meaningless game, and vital for knowing what to do post season if we have injury or worse, turnovers...




That's how I see it also. I seriously doubt we will win in Calgary (given our past history there) and as such we are going to be on the road for the playoff's. Might as well see what McGuire and Collaros can do for us in the final game. That way we will at the least know what we have available for the on the road playoff game. The sad thing IMHO is that the last home game for the Bombers this year will be pretty much meaningless.Then after we are one and done in the playoffs we can start the planning for 2020.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 16, 2019, 02:02:55 PM
That's how I see it also. I seriously doubt we will win in Calgary (given our past history there) and as such we are going to be on the road for the playoff's. Might as well see what McGuire and Collaros can do for us in the final game. That way we will at the least know what we have available for the on the road playoff game. The sad thing IMHO is that the last home game for the Bombers this year will be pretty much meaningless.Then after we are one and done in the playoffs we can start the planning for 2020.

Yea...yea...Calgary is unbeatable. Your stance on anything Calgary has been well established already. They are the best and no one else is worthy. In case you haven't noticed Calgary's play this year has been no better than ours.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 16, 2019, 05:45:56 PM
In the games against Calgary, yes.  But not in a one and done situation...

McGuire and Collaros should split the reps in the final game if we lose the next one.  We will have no chance of hosting a home game, it is a meaningless game, and vital for knowing what to do post season if we have injury or worse, turnovers...

Depending on how things pan out, good chance the last game will also be meaningless for the Stamps in terms of positioning.  If that happens they will surely rest BLM and a lot of their starters, which gives the Bombers a great opportunity to test-drive both McGuire and Collaros.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on October 16, 2019, 06:28:52 PM
In the games against Calgary, yes.  But not in a one and done situation...

McGuire and Collaros should split the reps in the final game if we lose the next one.  We will have no chance of hosting a home game, it is a meaningless game, and vital for knowing what to do post season if we have injury or worse, turnovers...

If we lose the next game in Calgary and Sask loses, there is still a chance we get a home playoff game (we win our final game against Calgary and Sask loses out), and therefore there is hope to host a home playoff game.

Therefore, try.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: bluengold204 on October 16, 2019, 06:34:05 PM
In the games against Calgary, yes.  But not in a one and done situation...

McGuire and Collaros should split the reps in the final game if we lose the next one.  We will have no chance of hosting a home game, it is a meaningless game, and vital for knowing what to do post season if we have injury or worse, turnovers...




Ugh such a dumb attitude to have.  There's still a chance to host a playoff game if we lose the first game against Calgary, we would have to win the second game and Calgary lose to BC.  Is it likely?  Probably not but I would rather go down playing till the end then just give up.  If that is their mindset they might as well not even show up for the playoffs.  

Also it would force Calgary to play their starters in the last week and you never know maybe catch a key injury or two.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Jesse on October 16, 2019, 07:49:54 PM
Our goal is to win out and get some sort of home play-off game.

As others have said, as long as there is a mathematical chance of that happening, we put forth our best effort and not worry about snaps for back-ups.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: bomb squad on October 16, 2019, 11:38:03 PM
Depending on how things pan out, good chance the last game will also be meaningless for the Stamps in terms of positioning.  If that happens they will surely rest BLM and a lot of their starters, which gives the Bombers a great opportunity to test-drive both McGuire and Collaros.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Both games will have meaning in terms of positioning no matter what.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: dd on October 17, 2019, 12:44:48 AM
Why do we feel that we need to get McGuire some snaps in any game?? Management traded for Collaros, I would think priority would be to put Collaros in and worry about McGuire next year, as we need to win from here on in. And Collaros will only get in if streveler gets injured,we don?t have the coaching sense to pull him if he?s playing bad or the offense is struggling , that?s just what MOS does.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 17, 2019, 03:59:46 PM
Why do we feel that we need to get McGuire some snaps in any game?? Management traded for Collaros, I would think priority would be to put Collaros in and worry about McGuire next year, as we need to win from here on in. And Collaros will only get in if streveler gets injured,we don?t have the coaching sense to pull him if he?s playing bad or the offense is struggling , that?s just what MOS does.

The general feeling is that Collaros won't be here in 2020. OTOH McGuire might be part of the future plan.

We do need to win from here on in but that's always a fine line during a game. When do you pull the starter at any position? MOS usually doesn't do that at the best of times.



Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on October 17, 2019, 04:07:19 PM
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Both games will have meaning in terms of positioning no matter what.

Yea..every game matters to Calgary no matter what.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: dd on October 18, 2019, 02:58:29 AM
The general feeling is that Collaros won't be here in 2020. OTOH McGuire might be part of the future plan.

We do need to win from here on in but that's always a fine line during a game. When do you pull the starter at any position? MOS usually doesn't do that at the best of times.


No he doesn?t, he doesn?t have the common sense to hook our key starters whether we re winning by a lot or losing/struggling, his brain can?t adapt at all and that?s a flaw that he has. He?s the polar opposite of bill belichek. Belichek canned Malloy and went with someone younger and better, people thought he was nuts, the dude plays to win every game, that?s what a good head coach does.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: BigBomberFan on October 18, 2019, 10:31:34 PM
To me, it doesn't really matter whether Collaros will be here next year, because he's basically just an insurance policy for us down this next stretch. I would like to see him get a few reps in the final game of the season, but considering that we're playing to have the best advantage possible for us, I don't think that there's any real garbage time left in the traditional sense for this year, anyways, considering that it's against the Stamps and also because the Stamps don't hold the same margin of wins over the other teams that they normally do, so they need the wins, too.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Ridermania on October 19, 2019, 02:40:18 PM
With play-offs approaching, Collaros needs to get involved in some series in the event Streveler gets injured.

Hope Collaros is not needed but he is the answer at back-up, not McGuire.

McGuire has next year to get some game reps.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue In BC on October 19, 2019, 05:14:52 PM
With play-offs approaching, Collaros needs to get involved in some series in the event Streveler gets injured.

Hope Collaros is not needed but he is the answer at back-up, not McGuire.

McGuire has next year to get some game reps.

How do we know what McGuire is able to do? Just because we haven't seen him doesn't mean he might not be better prepared than Collaro. Keeping in mind Collaros hasn't played in nearly a full season and he's only been here for a short time.

I might point out that Streveler started the 1st 3 games in 2018 as a rookie and looked pretty good.

McGuire may be back in 2020 and he may be released just as easily. Maybe someone that has seen him in practice can give us some insight.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: The Zipp on January 27, 2020, 06:18:05 PM
wow - we sure all called this one..."insurance only"..."won't be here next year"...

All pre Grey Cup nonsense I guess...


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Blue96 on January 27, 2020, 06:20:19 PM
wow - we sure all called this one..."insurance only"..."won't be here next year"...

All pre Grey Cup nonsense I guess...

I'm cautiously optimistic. I've always liked Collaros, and I think with our OLine, it might be a good combo. All I can say is Knock on Wood.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 27, 2020, 06:29:06 PM
wow - we sure all called this one..."insurance only"..."won't be here next year"...

All pre Grey Cup nonsense I guess...

How was it nonsense back then?


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: The Zipp on January 27, 2020, 06:33:16 PM
How was it nonsense back then?

Cause we had no way of knowing the future...shows how unpredictable things can be..it had a happy ending for sure...but most (myself included) thought it was really a temp stop gap not a play for the future - today here we are he is the QB for 2020+


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 27, 2020, 06:38:13 PM
Cause we had no way of knowing the future...shows how unpredictable things can be..it had a happy ending for sure...but most (myself included) thought it was really a temp stop gap not a play for the future - today here we are he is the QB for 2020+

Exactly. So, back in October when the Bombers got him, it wasn't inaccurate to call him a rental or insurance, or speculate on his being here in 2020.

Speculation from a few months ago doesn't change simply because things in the present have changed.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: The Zipp on January 27, 2020, 06:42:21 PM
Exactly. So, back in October when the Bombers got him, it wasn't inaccurate to call him a rental or insurance, or speculate on his being here in 2020.

Speculation from a few months ago doesn't change simply because things in the present have changed.

Well the absolute surety of some of the statements is/was nonsense..."if Kyle Walters signs him..he is a moron"

stuff like that - which is typical cause us fans know so much.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on January 27, 2020, 06:53:10 PM
Well the absolute surety of some of the statements is/was nonsense..."if Kyle Walters signs him..he is a moron"

stuff like that - which is typical cause us fans know so much.

I advocated strongly for a Collaros trade when it was clear Streveler was struggling. However, today I am not that stoked that we re-signed him. I don't hate it either....I just don't like the risk. I would have pushed all our chips in on Arbuckle tbh, but if it's Collaros...so be it...let's get a grade A insurance policy behind him and go get that repeat.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Jesse on January 27, 2020, 08:02:59 PM
Well the absolute surety of some of the statements is/was nonsense..."if Kyle Walters signs him..he is a moron"

stuff like that - which is typical cause us fans know so much.

Still may ring true....


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 27, 2020, 09:02:35 PM
Well the absolute surety of some of the statements is/was nonsense..."if Kyle Walters signs him..he is a moron"

stuff like that - which is typical cause us fans know so much.

Well, of course. I agree completely.

Still may ring true....

It's hard to predict the future. And with Collaros, you know what you're getting for the most part. There's a risk involved here and it'll be imperative to keep him clean in the pocket. Fortunately, he showed an ability to scramble when needed, but I think it goes without saying this move is rolling the dice to a degree.

I don't think this makes Walters a moron, though. Regardless of what happens.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: PurpleReign on January 27, 2020, 09:06:53 PM
I advocated strongly for a Collaros trade when it was clear Streveler was struggling. However, today I am not that stoked that we re-signed him. I don't hate it either....I just don't like the risk. I would have pushed all our chips in on Arbuckle tbh, but if it's Collaros...so be it...let's get a grade A insurance policy behind him and go get that repeat.

Risk?  Every Qb is one play from ending not only a season but their careers.  It's not like Colloros is injury prone it's idiots in this league that have no control of themselves when it comes to hitting QB's. Great signing today by the Bombers.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 27, 2020, 09:16:54 PM
Risk?  Every Qb is one play from ending not only a season but their careers.  It's not like Colloros is injury prone it's idiots in this league that have no control of themselves when it comes to hitting QB's. Great signing today by the Bombers.

Yes, every QB is at risk. But QBs like Collaros and Nichols are at a considerably higher risk based on their injury history. You can't dismiss that fact.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: PurpleReign on January 27, 2020, 11:54:27 PM
Yes, every QB is at risk. But QBs like Collaros and Nichols are at a considerably higher risk based on their injury history. You can't dismiss that fact.

You can't go on in life being scared of things or not doing this or that. Everything is a risk you go out the door you might not come home again.  He has a history but which QB doesn't in this league and in the NFL.  Riley, Mitchell, Masoli, Farjardo etc  all have a history of injury.  Great signing I am pleased with it.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: ichabod_crane on January 28, 2020, 12:25:15 AM
Exactly. So, back in October when the Bombers got him, it wasn't inaccurate to call him a rental or insurance, or speculate on his being here in 2020.

Speculation from a few months ago doesn't change simply because things in the present have changed.

Bombers never in the Grey cup without Collaros's contribution. I had practically given up on them going anywhere after dropping into third place after that second last regular season loss in Calgary. I love Streve's, but he is not ready for a full time prime time QB job yet. He just would not last too long with his bullish running mentality! ;) Good for spot duty, but no QB can last long playing that way all the time. It was not looking good AT ALL very late in the season to my observation and on top of that Streveler could barely walk after that Calgary loss. They were toast to be honest at that time. Collaros then injected HOPE into the team in that last regular season game when they needed it most and they got some of that mojo back from the earlier part of the season. Then a smack down of Calgary IN CALGARY in a playoff game (when did that last occur?) and they were off to the races big time then.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: theaardvark on January 28, 2020, 03:59:25 AM
When acquired, he was insurance, and no one that I saw thought eslewise,  It was Nichols team, and Nichols was supposed to return.  Many of us (myself included) hope Collaros woulnd't need to take a snap in BLue and Gold, for his own sake.

4 dominating games and a cup later, yeah, there is a reason he is our new QB.  He has shown that he can still play, symptom free, at an elite level.  He has the desirem he knows the risks, and he has medical clearance. 

Sure, we cringed the first hit he took, but he bounced up, and eventually hoisted the cup. 

A new era has started, lets hope it lasts a while.



Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on January 28, 2020, 04:21:48 PM
Risk?  Every Qb is one play from ending not only a season but their careers.  It's not like Colloros is injury prone it's idiots in this league that have no control of themselves when it comes to hitting QB's. Great signing today by the Bombers.

Every vehicle is a risk to crash too, but I'll lay odds on the one with bald tires and a faulty brakes being the one that crashes first. The problem with your argument is you are assuming every QB has the same injury risk and that simply isn't true.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: TBURGESS on January 28, 2020, 04:24:43 PM
nik Kowalski

Correction: Collaros has actually missed 33 CFL game due to injury in the last five seasons. Nichols still at 11.

Nik Kowalski
Share of injuries yes, but not on the same level in terms of concern.

Games missed to injury:
Collaros: 38
Nichols: 29

Last 5 years:
Collaros: 27
Nichols: 11

Then there's the 3 concussions in the last 19 months.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on January 28, 2020, 04:27:17 PM
nik Kowalski

Correction: Collaros has actually missed 33 CFL game due to injury in the last five seasons. Nichols still at 11.

Nik Kowalski
Share of injuries yes, but not on the same level in terms of concern.

Games missed to injury:
Collaros: 38
Nichols: 29

Last 5 years:
Collaros: 27
Nichols: 11

Then there's the 3 concussions in the last 19 months.

It's staggering to me that it appears quite a few people seem to have forgotten just how bad a concussion issue he has. It's like when we re-signed Buck all those years ago.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 28, 2020, 04:28:06 PM
You can't go on in life being scared of things or not doing this or that. Everything is a risk you go out the door you might not come home again.  He has a history but which QB doesn't in this league and in the NFL.  Riley, Mitchell, Masoli, Farjardo etc  all have a history of injury.  Great signing I am pleased with it.

Nobody said anything about being scared or risking one's life when you step out into the world. We're talking about a QB who has an extensive history of concussions, a type of injury that's cumulative over time. If you can't understand the relevance of that, I'd suggest reading up on brain injuries and concussions. They're not something one can just shrug off if they're genuinely concerned about their long-term health and quality of life.

I'm not sure how else to reply. The first two sentences are completely ridiculous and have nothing to do with the discussion.

It's staggering to me that it appears quite a few people seem to have forgotten just how bad a concussion issue he has. It's like when we re-signed Buck all those years ago.

It's recency bias, man. There's no other explanation. Keeping Collaros upright and healthy is the most important thing for the Bombers this season.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on January 28, 2020, 04:30:33 PM
Nobody said anything about being scared or risking one's life when you step out into the world. We're talking about a QB who has an extensive history of concussions, a type of injury that's cumulative over time. If you can't understand the relevance of that, I'd suggest reading up on brain injuries and concussions. They're not something one can just shrug off if they're genuinely concerned about their long-term health and quality of life.

I'm not sure how else to reply. The first two sentences are completely ridiculous and have nothing to do with the discussion.

Comparing tissue and bone injuries to brain injuries is just ridiculous. The former you can completely recover from in many cases, and in fact fortify and make stronger than before, brain injuries are PERMANENT and your risk and recovery time increases exponentially with every one you suffer.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on January 28, 2020, 04:34:17 PM
Nobody said anything about being scared or risking one's life when you step out into the world. We're talking about a QB who has an extensive history of concussions, a type of injury that's cumulative over time. If you can't understand the relevance of that, I'd suggest reading up on brain injuries and concussions. They're not something one can just shrug off if they're genuinely concerned about their long-term health and quality of life.

I'm not sure how else to reply. The first two sentences are completely ridiculous and have nothing to do with the discussion.

It's recency bias, man. There's no other explanation. Keeping Collaros upright and healthy is the most important thing for the Bombers this season.

Like I've stated many times, when ZC is healthy he is a better choice at QB than Matt Nichols. I think everyone is deluding themselves by thinking he stands more than an outside chance of not missing significant time. Sure last year's hit was a bad one, but the previous 2 concussions were not really hard hits on him. The one he suffered in pre-season 2018 that he lied about and didn't report there was no contact to the head at all.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 28, 2020, 04:52:00 PM
Interesting to read all the comments about Collaros in hindsight.....he is now our guy and Matt was released early to give him a head start on free agency.   Good luck to both QBs....should be interesting games should they both meet head to head this season!


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: PurpleReign on January 28, 2020, 04:52:48 PM
Comparing tissue and bone injuries to brain injuries is just ridiculous. The former you can completely recover from in many cases, and in fact fortify and make stronger than before, brain injuries are PERMANENT and your risk and recovery time increases exponentially with every one you suffer.

If Bombers didn't get him last year our drought would have continued still. Troy Aikman had concussions and other QB's have had many in the past with out the CTE research of today, and they are fine. You guys make it out that Collaros is ticking time bomb and only QB in the CFL that is in danger of being put out for the year. Let's see what happens, yes he is a risk and needs to be protected, but no more than all Qb's.  Enjoy the season that was a great hire by the Bombers.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on January 28, 2020, 05:06:15 PM
If Bombers didn't get him last year our drought would have continued still. Troy Aikman had concussions and other QB's have had many in the past with out the CTE research of today, and they are fine. You guys make it out that Collaros is ticking time bomb and only QB in the CFL that is in danger of being put out for the year. Let's see what happens, yes he is a risk and needs to be protected, but no more than all Qb's.  Enjoy the season that was a great hire by the Bombers.

Aikman also stated that knowing what he knows now he would have retired much sooner and that he would have missed FAR more games in todays NFL because of the knowledge about brain injuries. The knowledge about CTE's doesn't make Collaros less susceptible to a concussion but it WILL make games lost to a concussion to be FAR greater than they are now. Referencing Aikman doesn't prove your point, it proves mine. Aikman is the NFL's version of Matt Dunigan for concussion awareness and has advocated for mandatory season ending protocols for concussions.

Years ago guys wore leather helmets and were concussed every game. Not sure how that minimizes Collaros's risk factor by suggesting guys had concussions in the past. We know better now, and the league and teams take concussion protocols very seriously and shut guys down for MUCH longer periods of time now....and it gets longer and longer based on their concussion history.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 28, 2020, 05:08:16 PM
If Bombers didn't get him last year our drought would have continued still. Troy Aikman 8 concussions and other QB's have had many in the past with out the CTE research of today, and they are fine. You guys make it out that Collaros is ticking time bomb and only QB in the CFL that is in danger of being put out for the year. Relax enjoy the season that was a great hire by the Bombers.  

That's baseless speculation and nothing more. Not to mention completely disregarding what the defense or other players did during that championship run. Obviously, getting Collaros helped solidify the offense but it took a team to win it all. And Collaros was the first to admit that immediately after the Grey Cup. At least he's able to be rational.

Is Troy Aikman still playing football? No. And just because someone is "fine" now doesn't mean they will be in 5, 10, or 20 years. These types of cumulative injuries affect every individual differently, so to compare one player to another is nothing more than a display of ignorance.

Who said anything about Collaros being a ticking time bomb or that he's the only QB at risk? Nobody. The discussion is about how that risk could affect him and the team, and emphasizes the importance of keeping him clean and protected on the field this upcoming season.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on January 28, 2020, 05:12:50 PM
That's baseless speculation and nothing more. Not to mention completely disregarding what the defense or other players did during that championship run. Obviously, getting Collaros helped solidify the offense but it took a team to win it all. And Collaros was the first to admit that immediately after the Grey Cup. At least he's able to be rational.

Is Troy Aikman still playing football? No. And just because someone is "fine" now doesn't mean they will be in 5, 10, or 20 years. These types of cumulative injuries affect every individual differently, so to compare one player to another is nothing more than a display of ignorance.

Who said anything about Collaros being a ticking time bomb or that he's the only QB at risk? Nobody. The discussion is about how that risk could affect him and the team, and emphasizes the importance of keeping him clean and protected on the field this upcoming season.


I agree with the statement that getting him last year more than likely insured our GC victory. However, there is a difference between taking a chance on a concussion prone ringer when you basically have no other options, and signing him to a 2 year contract. I love the move to get Collaros last year because it represented zero risk to the Bombers. There was no possible downside to getting him. Retaining him to a 2 year contract and letting Nichols go, or not signing someone else, represents great risk because there were options.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 28, 2020, 05:15:29 PM
Like I've stated many times, when ZC is healthy he is a better choice at QB than Matt Nichols. I think everyone is deluding themselves by thinking he stands more than an outside chance of not missing significant time. Sure last year's hit was a bad one, but the previous 2 concussions were not really hard hits on him. The one he suffered in pre-season 2018 that he lied about and didn't report there was no contact to the head at all.

I re-watched the Odell helmet to helmet season ending hit on Collaros a few days ago and it was pretty vicious, surprisingly Zach got up under his own power and played almost another Q before Sask. pulled him from the game.

Video is halfway down the page, the play starts at 1:50.

https://www.cfl.ca/games/2541/bc-lions-vs-saskatchewan-roughriders/?_ga=2.99639838.1603467156.1579792973-96752938.1529593205



Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Pigskin on January 28, 2020, 05:36:14 PM
The last two times that Collaros has been injured the hits have been late, and cheap. The league really needs to crack down on the helmet to helmet, and late hits. One game suspensions are just not enough. Repeat offenders need to get a lot more then one game suspension.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on January 28, 2020, 05:50:20 PM
I re-watched the Odell helmet to helmet season ending hit on Collaros a few days ago and it was pretty vicious, surprisingly Zach got up under his own power and played almost another Q before Sask. pulled him from the game.

Video is halfway down the page, the play starts at 1:50.

https://www.cfl.ca/games/2541/bc-lions-vs-saskatchewan-roughriders/?_ga=2.99639838.1603467156.1579792973-96752938.1529593205



Yea...forgot about the Odell hit but his other concussion that was reported and the unreported one in preseason that he later admitted to, were pretty tame.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 28, 2020, 06:37:50 PM
Yea...forgot about the Odell hit but his other concussion that was reported and the unreported one in preseason that he later admitted to, were pretty tame.

The fact Zach continued to play after the pre-season concussion and after the Odell hit shows that he doesn't have a good sense of self-preservation.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: booch on January 28, 2020, 07:14:41 PM
Yea...forgot about the Odell hit but his other concussion that was reported and the unreported one in preseason that he later admitted to, were pretty tame.

Yeah but he could have got rocked in practice as well, and the milder in game hit was cumulative...and finished him for a stint...we don't know
The concussion thing is an issue of concern for sure tho, and after a point too many occurring spells the end

Coming from a personal experience I received probably 4 in my playing days (confirmed)...all probably 2-3 years apart, and have had no effect on me and my quality of life since the last..albeit I am only just 49, also I have former teammates who went through a spell of 2-3 years with numerous concussions, then after a good dose of non-playing and a injury free following season never suffered one again over rest of their playing days...hopefully Zack is in this boat as he has had a good year off and then some going into TC this year concussion and symptom free.

But they are cumulative over time though and if he gets rocked by a cheap shot..helmet to helmet then he will be out longterm as each time if you have severe former trauma it takes you longer to get back...if you even are able to.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on January 28, 2020, 07:18:16 PM
Yeah but he could have got rocked in practice as well, and the milder in game hit was cumulative...and finished him for a stint...we don't know
The concussion thing is an issue of concern for sure tho, and after a point too many occurring spells the end

Coming from a personal experience I received probably 4 in my playing days (confirmed)...all probably 2-3 years apart, and have had no effect on me and my quality of life since the last..albeit I am only just 49, also I have former teammates who went through a spell of 2-3 years with numerous concussions, then after a good dose of non-playing and a injury free following season never suffered one again over rest of their playing days...hopefully Zack is in this boat as he has had a good year off and then some going into TC this year concussion and symptom free.

But they are cumulative over time though and if he gets rocked by a cheap shot..helmet to helmet then he will be out longterm as each time if you have severe former trauma it takes you longer to get back...if you even are able to.


Doesn't need to be a cheap shot. Helmet to turf, or anything blind side that snaps his head back and he is done. I do agree that if we can keep him non-concussed through this season that next season my worries decrease significantly as he will have had a couple years without one.

I just hope we don't go ultra conservative, like the Riders did, if he gets a mild concussion and is able to return. That sandbagged their season.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: booch on January 28, 2020, 07:20:49 PM
Doesn't need to be a cheap shot. Helmet to turf, or anything blind side that snaps his head back and he is done.
True, but most of the concussions he has gotten have been from deliberate head shots..as has with most qb's...and a lot of the head bouncing off the turf too is after a late hite on a QB...hopefully though when a pocket breaks down he has the pocket awareness to sense it coming and protect himslef...or side step it...one thing that Matt wasn't very good at


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on January 28, 2020, 07:23:13 PM
If Bombers didn't get him last year our drought would have continued still. Troy Aikman had concussions and other QB's have had many in the past with out the CTE research of today, and they are fine. You guys make it out that Collaros is ticking time bomb and only QB in the CFL that is in danger of being put out for the year. Let's see what happens, yes he is a risk and needs to be protected, but no more than all Qb's.  Enjoy the season that was a great hire by the Bombers.

Competent QBing was all we required to win the GC last year with the team we had. ZC did what was asked of him, play mistake free ball, he didn't win us the GC. If Streveler could have protected the ball in the same fashion and thrown for a couple hundred yards a game, he wins the GC for us. Nichols could have won the GC on our team last year too imo. We didn't require anything but basic QB competency.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: lenny on January 28, 2020, 08:34:00 PM
100% behind Walters and the management in this signing of Zac. Everything now is just hot air. Now it's the time as well to nail down a backup. I like what little I've seen from McGuire. Bombers have stated they have a lot of confidence in his abilities and potential. However, I would expect the Bombers may well be looking for a proven backup QB in the meantime.

Matt has been released in the meantime to pursue whatever there is for him on the FA front.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: BigBomberFan on January 28, 2020, 11:37:48 PM
This is great news. Not only because Collaros helped win us the GC, but also because we have finally secured our QB for this year. It took longer than I would have liked, but it was best not to rush anything.

My first choice (and apparently, the Bombers organization as well) was Collaros in the free agent market back in over Drew Willy at the time, but it's interesting how life works out. Him joining the team last year and signing now almost seems like the movie equivalent of where a couple of lovers never managed to get together when they were young, but get married when they're much older and much wiser when they can appreciate what the years and acquired wisdom bring.



Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on January 29, 2020, 04:35:54 PM
This is great news. Not only because Collaros helped win us the GC, but also because we have finally secured our QB for this year. It took longer than I would have liked, but it was best not to rush anything.

My first choice (and apparently, the Bombers organization as well) was Collaros in the free agent market back in over Drew Willy at the time, but it's interesting how life works out. Him joining the team last year and signing now almost seems like the movie equivalent of where a couple of lovers never managed to get together when they were young, but get married when they're much older and much wiser when they can appreciate what the years and acquired wisdom bring.



I agree. I was po'ed when we got Willy instead of Collaros in 2015. I thought it was a monumental mistake then, and I still think it was a mistake now. However, a lot of circumstances changed from now to then. Glad it worked out for everyone and our reward was the GC we might have had earlier had we signed him in 2015.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 29, 2020, 05:21:42 PM
I agree. I was po'ed when we got Willy instead of Collaros in 2015. I thought it was a monumental mistake then, and I still think it was a mistake now. However, a lot of circumstances changed from now to then. Glad it worked out for everyone and our reward was the GC we might have had earlier had we signed him in 2015.

Who do you think made a mistake, Collaros?


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: dd on January 29, 2020, 05:25:46 PM
It was a mistake in signing Willy and not getting Collaros in the first place. We finally addressed that!!


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Nic16 on January 29, 2020, 05:46:36 PM
I agree. I was po'ed when we got Willy instead of Collaros in 2015. I thought it was a monumental mistake then, and I still think it was a mistake now. However, a lot of circumstances changed from now to then. Glad it worked out for everyone and our reward was the GC we might have had earlier had we signed him in 2015.

I was big time disappointed to when we ended up with Willy instead of Zach. But that said, I assume the following was in play back then:

- the WFC had built up a solid reputation of futility and frugality, so it was a no-go zone for big name FA?s.

- Steubenville, Ohio is just a 5 hr drive from Hamilton.

- The BB were never in knee deep on the offer to ZC, because Willy would be cheaper and was a true pocket passer. Forgetting of course...we had no O-line at the time :D


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on January 29, 2020, 06:00:02 PM
Who do you think made a mistake, Collaros?

Nope Walters. Collaros should have been our primary target and we should have outbid Hammy.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on January 29, 2020, 06:01:25 PM
I was big time disappointed to when we ended up with Willy instead of Zach. But that said, I assume the following was in play back then:

- the WFC had built up a solid reputation of futility and frugality, so it was a no-go zone for big name FA?s.

- Steubenville, Ohio is just a 5 hr drive from Hamilton.

- The BB were never in knee deep on the offer to ZC, because Willy would be cheaper and was a true pocket passer. Forgetting of course...we had no O-line at the time :D

No we were never a serious bidder for him and that was a mistake that was just as big as Mack's failure to trade for Reilly. We pursued Burris harder than we pursued Collaros back then and that was a massive mistake. If it wasn't for Nichols landing in our lap, I hate to think what our QB situation would have been after Willy bombed out.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 29, 2020, 06:17:31 PM
Nope Walters. Collaros should have been our primary target and we should have outbid Hammy.

Willy was the 3rd place consolation prize after Hammy already grabbed Zach and Burris chose Ottawa over Wpg..  Collaros was already on his way to the Ti-Cats the moment F.A. opened, it was a done deal, nothing Walters could have done would have changed that outcome, Zach wanted to sign in Hamilton.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 29, 2020, 06:29:54 PM
Willy was the 3rd place consolation prize after Hammy already grabbed Zach and Burris chose Ottawa over Wpg..  Collaros was already on his way to the Ti-Cats the moment F.A. opened, it was a done deal, nothing Walters could have done would have changed that outcome, Zach wanted to sign in Hamilton.
yes....remember that well.   Willy actually started out for us with a bang and it ended with a whimper.   When Nichols eventually replaced him, we had just recently signed Bond or was it Hardrick....not sure.....however our O-line was vastly improved when Nichols took over.   Willy had been rattled, beaten and injured and was a shell of a QB and never really recovered after being traded. 


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: Jesse on January 29, 2020, 06:32:52 PM
Nope Walters. Collaros should have been our primary target and we should have outbid Hammy.

Walters was pretty new on the job. QB prices were suddenly exploding. I get bowing out.

I don't remember any leaks about offers. It's possible we did outbid Hamilton and he still chose them. We were....not well regarded at the time.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: blue_or_die on January 29, 2020, 07:26:28 PM
I was big time disappointed to when we ended up with Willy instead of Zach. But that said, I assume the following was in play back then:

- the WFC had built up a solid reputation of futility and frugality, so it was a no-go zone for big name FA?s.

- Steubenville, Ohio is just a 5 hr drive from Hamilton.

- The BB were never in knee deep on the offer to ZC, because Willy would be cheaper and was a true pocket passer. Forgetting of course...we had no O-line at the time :D

I would add to that list the southern ontario factor. I think at that point he was with his southern ontario wife where she had an established career and they were building a house. If it weren't for the fact that Zach is on the tail end of his career and he just won a cup with us and we have the tools to protect him and win another one for us, he'd be headed to Toronto. Just my opinion, of course.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: BigBomberFan on January 30, 2020, 02:16:07 AM
Some great points mentioned. I can't say that I could blame Collaros back then for not wanting to come here, and our terrible O-line arguably would have hastened his injuries. We were a mess, but I suppose it made me get even more mad at our situation when Willy wasn't working out and Collaros was lighting it up in Hamilton in his first few years there.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: DM83 on January 30, 2020, 08:30:10 AM
Our O line was an Embarassment. Poor Willy was mentally devastastated here.  He. Got a chance to start.  He wasn't a guy who could elude oppressive in the pocket so his fate was sealed.mit was sad and pathetic, that an organization let their offensive line get that way.
 He might just be one of the leagues best OC ever.
Lapo also came on Board, and with an O-line, And. The return of Andrew,,it was a start.

Walters did a nice job building.
We still need a game breaking WR, but then again with a non game manager chucking the rock .....maybe he is even in the roster.

Great signing, just don't let him get hit.


Title: Re: Bombers Acquire Zach Collaros
Post by: GCn19 on January 30, 2020, 12:12:58 PM
Our O line was an Embarassment. Poor Willy was mentally devastastated here.  He. Got a chance to start.  He wasn't a guy who could elude oppressive in the pocket so his fate was sealed.mit was sad and pathetic, that an organization let their offensive line get that way.
 He might just be one of the leagues best OC ever.
Lapo also came on Board, and with an O-line, And. The return of Andrew,,it was a start.

Walters did a nice job building.
We still need a game breaking WR, but then again with a non game manager chucking the rock .....maybe he is even in the roster.

Great signing, just don't let him get hit.

I agree. We may be able to get some increased mileage out of ZC by doing like Montreal did with AC and employing a max protect scheme on passing downs.