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The Extra Point => Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Ridermania on March 27, 2019, 04:13:37 PM



Title: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Ridermania on March 27, 2019, 04:13:37 PM
AAF in trouble!

https://www.tsn.ca/dundon-aaf-considering-discontinuing-1.1280574


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 27, 2019, 04:18:23 PM
Paging 66....paging 66...

Anybody think the NFLPA is going to bail them out by risking it's PR players health? I can guarantee that the PR players to a man are saying F...orget that.

Kind of a slap in the face by Dundon to the current players as well. "We won't continue unless we can get better players" I'm paraphrasing, of course, but that is essentially what he is saying.

I don't think the NFLPA will allow it's members to risk their health, and I think Dundon knows that and is simply creating an exit strategy that puts blame elsewhere.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: M.O.A.B. on March 27, 2019, 04:25:17 PM
some talents could be flowing to the CFL real soon


poor Manziel, can't go back to CFL anymore  ;D


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: the paw on March 27, 2019, 04:29:52 PM
Sounds like a disingenuous argument to me.  

Their original business concept did not rely on using active NFL PR players, so this is a new aspect that seems to be the brainchild of Dundon.  

It seems to suggest that fans are attending due to player quality.  Surely they would expect the quality of players attracted and retained to improve over their first year, and making a determination about what fans will and won't support on this limited sample size seems hasty.

I think its entirely feasible Dundon is floating this bogus excuse when his real agenda is to get his hands on proprietary gambling apps and tech that GCn18 flagged some time ago.  

Of course Dundon wouldn't be a factor if Ebersol had been telling the truth about the financing and investment he had purportedly lined up before launch.  


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 27, 2019, 04:31:56 PM
Aren't NFL PR players free agents at the end of every season, same as in CFL? I'm not so sure that those players wouldn't want some playing time to improve their chances on an NFL roster. If they are actually free agents there is no guarantee they even get back onto an NFL PR with the previous team in 2019.  It's still relatively a lot of money for a short season that gears them up to be more ready for a shot at an NFL season.

As far as whether the NFL is going to feed them players I never believed that would be the case.

From a business point of view you'd think they would have ironed that out before starting the AAF in the 1st place.

If the league does fold there will be about 400 players that become available. A few might get some TC looks in the CFL.

OTOH, not sure I care whether the AAF succeeds or not.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: blue_or_die on March 27, 2019, 04:36:44 PM
Crazy. Nobody predicted this would happen.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 27, 2019, 04:39:32 PM
Crazy. Nobody predicted this would happen.

Maybe only a few hundred million football fans. Perhaps this bold announcement at this point of the 1st season, but the root cause seemed probable.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 27, 2019, 04:48:48 PM
Sounds like a disingenuous argument to me.  

Their original business concept did not rely on using active NFL PR players, so this is a new aspect that seems to be the brainchild of Dundon.  

It seems to suggest that fans are attending due to player quality.  Surely they would expect the quality of players attracted and retained to improve over their first year, and making a determination about what fans will and won't support on this limited sample size seems hasty.

I think its entirely feasible Dundon is floating this bogus excuse when his real agenda is to get his hands on proprietary gambling apps and tech that GCn18 flagged some time ago.  

Of course Dundon wouldn't be a factor if Ebersol had been telling the truth about the financing and investment he had purportedly lined up before launch.  

What baffles me is this, does Dundon seriously think that the NFLPA would agree to players being on the NFL PR from July to February then immediately heading off to the AAF until the end of April? This would be extremely detrimental to a players health and career longevity therefore there is zero chance it happens....but Dundon gets his gambling app for what will likely be a fraction of the 100 million dollars in development already spent.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: theaardvark on March 27, 2019, 04:49:43 PM
The AAF was supposed to develop NFL fringe players, especially QB's and Oline that "don't get a lot of snaps on an NFL roster as backups / development players".  Kinda says it right there that they were supposed to have a number of NFL players, not starts, but at least players identified as having teh potential to play NFL, and develop them.  

Instead, they have a bunch of never were's...

So, yeah, had they been populated with young NFL prospects, they might have been a lot better off.  Maybe even have them wear a patch designating which team they are property of, make like a neg list restriction, and loan the players from the NFL club to the AAF team...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 27, 2019, 04:50:51 PM
some talents could be flowing to the CFL real soon


poor Manziel, can't go back to CFL anymore  ;D

Sorry....not seeing much talent in the AAF. that's the problem apparently. lol


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 27, 2019, 04:52:57 PM
Aren't NFL PR players free agents at the end of every season, same as in CFL? I'm not so sure that those players wouldn't want some playing time to improve their chances on an NFL roster. If they are actually free agents there is no guarantee they even get back onto an NFL PR with the previous team in 2019.  It's still relatively a lot of money for a short season that gears them up to be more ready for a shot at an NFL season.

As far as whether the NFL is going to feed them players I never believed that would be the case.

From a business point of view you'd think they would have ironed that out before starting the AAF in the 1st place.

If the league does fold there will be about 400 players that become available. A few might get some TC looks in the CFL.

OTOH, not sure I care whether the AAF succeeds or not.

No NFL PR players are not FA's at the end of the season like in the CFL.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 27, 2019, 04:57:58 PM
a couple of things come to mind...

first, I think it's a disservice to both the league and the players for Dundon to say anything in regards to the status of the league hinging on a NFLPA decision, even if it's true, at least at this point in the season. I'm not exactly sure what he hopes to accomplish by putting the NFLPA out there like that because to me, it would strength the NFLPA position to NOT cooperate and gives them a platform to explain publicly why there is concern on their part, i.e. player health, etc...

Dundon did not say that the AAF needed better players, what he did say was that the AAF was hoping to get those O linemen and 3rd string QBs that traditionally reside on NFL practice rosters to come to the AAF.  Why those specific player groups? Because the NFL has stated time and time again that these 2 specific groups needed live action snaps in order to be able to progress and improve. Currently that isn't happening in the NFL landscape so, if the AAF can solve a problem for the NFL they feel they can solidify themselves as an extension of the NFL, i.e. funding and an increased league valuation in terms of resale...

Also, I'm not completely sure why Dundon needed to make this type of statement in regards to accessibility with players as it is my understanding that all players that are on practice rosters are released at the end of the season, much like the CFL. Secondly, even if those PR players sign futures contracts with an NFL team the AAF has previously stated that they have an agreement with the NFL that would allow players to play in either league as their seasons do not overlap. So, that would beg the question, is that or is that not the case?

If the league does discontinue, it won't be because their wasn't fan interest as both attendance and TV ratings continue to grow. San Antonio drew over 30,000 fans last week and TV viewership was over 830,000 this weekend on premium cable channels, which is impressive considering it was competing against the NCAA March Madness first and second rounds last weekend which is always huge.

If this league folds due to the NFLPA's hesitation in implementing a formal work agreement with the AAF it tells me that this league was never about providing fans with more football or creating a commodity from a pool of unused and available talent, it was just about money. Now I'm not saying that is all bad, you have to make money in order to stay in business. But we were sold a 'pig in a poke', so to speak, with all of this talk about creating a league, providing options for players, player safety, player benefits, an improved game and fan experience, and a community center piece for area lacking professional sports options. 

sad really, all of it...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 27, 2019, 05:06:25 PM
from Benjamin Allbright, noted NFL insider via his twitter account...

"The AAF is not in any danger of folding. 

They're just trying to leverage for NFLPA cooperation in securing players.

Hyperbole ftw, though."


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 27, 2019, 05:08:32 PM
in fact, here is a link to the complete twitter thread, very interesting to say the least...sounds like Dundon may in fact be that wing nut you all suggested he was...

https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/1110945866322509824 (https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/1110945866322509824)


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: the paw on March 27, 2019, 05:28:03 PM
from Benjamin Allbright, noted NFL insider via his twitter account...

"The AAF is not in any danger of folding. 

They're just trying to leverage for NFLPA cooperation in securing players.

Hyperbole ftw, though."


I am not seeing how this attains leverage on the NFLPA.  They represent NFL player, including NFL PR players who have "made it" at least to one level above the AAF.   Sending PR guys to the AAF benefits the NFL in terms of developing guys, and it obviously benefits the AAF.  How does it benefit the NFLPA?  It doesn't create new jobs, it essentially undermines player safety for the PR guys who will get no off-season, and it increases the ability of PR guys to potentially take jobs from existing NFL vets (who are the core constituency of the NFLPA).

Why would the NFLPA care if the AAF folded?  Is Dundon expecting the NFL to lean on the NFLPA if he ratchets up the pressure? 

Albright seems to be a big fan of the AAF, but he needs a fuller explanation to be credible on this. 


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 27, 2019, 05:29:29 PM
I'm still curious about the 49 players reported to have NFL deals in place. Are they mostly NFL veterans with a renewed chance with another team or mostly PR players.

IIRC the broadcasters reported that 80% of AAF players had some NFL exposure. The problem with that is many may have used up all their PR eligibility. Players with 1 or 2 years PR experience might still have some upside and get new looks at TC.

The real question or test is how many will actually still be with any NFL team after TC? There are bound to be some but they will be competing with the 2019 draft choices and free agent signings during this past off season.

It's no different that the CFL. Some TC or PR cuts from 2018 will sign somewhere new in 2019. Some may even make AR or PR's on new teams.

OTOH, each team will bring in 25-40 new rookies for TC and will look at hundreds in tryout camps or from their neg lists.

It's a tough business. Players don't always get 2nd PR chances. Those that have had 3 or 4 different teams looking at them will find getting yet another chance increasingly difficult. Some may be emergency replacements when injuries occur etc.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: M.O.A.B. on March 27, 2019, 05:32:58 PM
Sorry....not seeing much talent in the AAF. that's the problem apparently. lol

Maybe not for us but for some CFL teams. Ciante Evans might comeback North and maybe Freddie Bishop too.
Who'se the one who has a man crush with LDW ?  ;D

I believe one of our neg lister is in one of AAF teams.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on March 27, 2019, 05:33:47 PM
Not sure how much Dundon is into this whole venture for, but if this gambling app that cost 100m has a future he may be a brilliant and conniving business man to pull this off if he gets the rights to the app and potentially some other fringe benefits from his investment, and he ends up into it for less than the 100m rumoured initial costs.

While I hoped the league would last the pay and benefits were simply too much to be realistic for a start-up.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 27, 2019, 05:38:00 PM
Maybe not for us but for some CFL teams. Ciante Evans might comeback North and maybe Freddie Bishop too.
Who'se the one who has a man crush with LDW ?  ;D

I believe one of our neg lister is in one of AAF teams.

While I'm pretty happy with the candidates in our secondary I'd be interested in C. Evans. He's a top defender. OTOH he'd probably end up back in Calgary but I'd at least want our management talking with his agent. Likely an expensive acquisition but it might make one of our players a trade commodity.



Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 27, 2019, 05:53:09 PM
from Benjamin Allbright, noted NFL insider via his twitter account...

"The AAF is not in any danger of folding. 

They're just trying to leverage for NFLPA cooperation in securing players.

Hyperbole ftw, though."


Albright sounds like a bigger wingnut than Dundon. He couldn't possibly know what the AAF status is and he is completely out to lunch thinking the AAF can apply even an iota of leverage to the NFLPA.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 27, 2019, 05:56:49 PM
I am not seeing how this attains leverage on the NFLPA.  They represent NFL player, including NFL PR players who have "made it" at least to one level above the AAF.   Sending PR guys to the AAF benefits the NFL in terms of developing guys, and it obviously benefits the AAF.  How does it benefit the NFLPA?  It doesn't create new jobs, it essentially undermines player safety for the PR guys who will get no off-season, and it increases the ability of PR guys to potentially take jobs from existing NFL vets (who are the core constituency of the NFLPA).

Why would the NFLPA care if the AAF folded?  Is Dundon expecting the NFL to lean on the NFLPA if he ratchets up the pressure? 

Albright seems to be a big fan of the AAF, but he needs a fuller explanation to be credible on this. 

I am not sure why anyone in their right mind would believe that the NFLPA would agree to subject any player to what would end up being a 10 month season. There is no leverage in the world that would make them agree to that.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 27, 2019, 06:06:23 PM
a couple of things come to mind...

first, I think it's a disservice to both the league and the players for Dundon to say anything in regards to the status of the league hinging on a NFLPA decision, even if it's true, at least at this point in the season. I'm not exactly sure what he hopes to accomplish by putting the NFLPA out there like that because to me, it would strength the NFLPA position to NOT cooperate and gives them a platform to explain publicly why there is concern on their part, i.e. player health, etc...

Dundon did not say that the AAF needed better players, what he did say was that the AAF was hoping to get those O linemen and 3rd string QBs that traditionally reside on NFL practice rosters to come to the AAF.  Why those specific player groups? Because the NFL has stated time and time again that these 2 specific groups needed live action snaps in order to be able to progress and improve. Currently that isn't happening in the NFL landscape so, if the AAF can solve a problem for the NFL they feel they can solidify themselves as an extension of the NFL, i.e. funding and an increased league valuation in terms of resale...

Also, I'm not completely sure why Dundon needed to make this type of statement in regards to accessibility with players as it is my understanding that all players that are on practice rosters are released at the end of the season, much like the CFL. Secondly, even if those PR players sign futures contracts with an NFL team the AAF has previously stated that they have an agreement with the NFL that would allow players to play in either league as their seasons do not overlap. So, that would beg the question, is that or is that not the case?

If the league does discontinue, it won't be because their wasn't fan interest as both attendance and TV ratings continue to grow. San Antonio drew over 30,000 fans last week and TV viewership was over 830,000 this weekend on premium cable channels, which is impressive considering it was competing against the NCAA March Madness first and second rounds last weekend which is always huge.

If this league folds due to the NFLPA's hesitation in implementing a formal work agreement with the AAF it tells me that this league was never about providing fans with more football or creating a commodity from a pool of unused and available talent, it was just about money. Now I'm not saying that is all bad, you have to make money in order to stay in business. But we were sold a 'pig in a poke', so to speak, with all of this talk about creating a league, providing options for players, player safety, player benefits, an improved game and fan experience, and a community center piece for area lacking professional sports options. 

sad really, all of it...

Not all players on PRs are released at the end of the year. Only the ones the team does not want back or the player does not want to return. The rest are placed on futures contracts. These, and the third string QBs are the ones the AAF wants but will never get.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: blue_or_die on March 27, 2019, 06:09:34 PM
Maybe only a few hundred million football fans. Perhaps this bold announcement at this point of the 1st season, but the root cause seemed probable.

Captain Obvious, ahoy!


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Colton on March 27, 2019, 06:11:03 PM
Sorry....not seeing much talent in the AAF. that's the problem apparently. lol

That and nobody cares about it


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 27, 2019, 06:35:01 PM
I am not seeing how this attains leverage on the NFLPA.  They represent NFL player, including NFL PR players who have "made it" at least to one level above the AAF.   Sending PR guys to the AAF benefits the NFL in terms of developing guys, and it obviously benefits the AAF.  How does it benefit the NFLPA?  It doesn't create new jobs, it essentially undermines player safety for the PR guys who will get no off-season, and it increases the ability of PR guys to potentially take jobs from existing NFL vets (who are the core constituency of the NFLPA).

Why would the NFLPA care if the AAF folded?  Is Dundon expecting the NFL to lean on the NFLPA if he ratchets up the pressure? 

Albright seems to be a big fan of the AAF, but he needs a fuller explanation to be credible on this. 

agree, hard to leverage something you don't have, lol... again, the comment in opinion does more harm than good to the league and their efforts to continue growing interest...


That and nobody cares about it


yet you read and comment about it, lol...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 27, 2019, 06:37:31 PM
I'm still curious about the 49 players reported to have NFL deals in place. Are they mostly NFL veterans with a renewed chance with another team or mostly PR players.

IIRC the broadcasters reported that 80% of AAF players had some NFL exposure. The problem with that is many may have used up all their PR eligibility. Players with 1 or 2 years PR experience might still have some upside and get new looks at TC.

The real question or test is how many will actually still be with any NFL team after TC? There are bound to be some but they will be competing with the 2019 draft choices and free agent signings during this past off season.

It's no different that the CFL. Some TC or PR cuts from 2018 will sign somewhere new in 2019. Some may even make AR or PR's on new teams.

OTOH, each team will bring in 25-40 new rookies for TC and will look at hundreds in tryout camps or from their neg lists.

It's a tough business. Players don't always get 2nd PR chances. Those that have had 3 or 4 different teams looking at them will find getting yet another chance increasingly difficult. Some may be emergency replacements when injuries occur etc.

I'll see if I can find the link to the materials that stated that... it was on reddit and they had a link to the image of the actual handout that was being passed out at the NFL combine...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 27, 2019, 06:49:15 PM
agree, hard to leverage something you don't have, lol... again, the comment in opinion does more harm than good to the league and their efforts to continue growing interest...
 

yet you read and comment about it, lol...

Continue to grow interest? Friday there will be no more AAF.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Colton on March 27, 2019, 06:59:08 PM
yet you read and comment about it, lol...

It's too bad I'm one of about twelve people or the league might have survived more than 2 months.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: the paw on March 27, 2019, 07:10:31 PM
It's too bad I'm one of about twelve people or the league might have survived more than 2 months.

Best quote from the Deadspin comments section....

"No malice towards the AAF, but I hope they fold just so we can see the headline....Dundon Done!"


    :D


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: blue girl on March 27, 2019, 07:16:56 PM
I find it odd that if the AAF wanted to use NFL PR players that they wouldn't have reached an agreement with the NFLPA before the season started. I really thought that this league would survive but if they don't they're just another football league to throw on the scrap heap. I believe that the XFL 2.0 is next.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 27, 2019, 07:21:08 PM
Crazy. Nobody predicted this would happen.

Easy there, or you'll break the forum's sarcasm-o-meter. ;D

When Dundon himself says shutting down the league is an option being explored, you know it's in dire straits. It's neither opinion nor hyperbole.

It's too bad I'm one of about twelve people or the league might have survived more than 2 months.

LOL :D


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Colton on March 27, 2019, 08:05:44 PM
I find it odd that if the AAF wanted to use NFL PR players that they wouldn't have reached an agreement with the NFLPA before the season started. I really thought that this league would survive but if they don't they're just another football league to throw on the scrap heap. I believe that the XFL 2.0 is next.

I agree with the paw, in that this sounds more like a Dundon idea than an AAF idea.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Jesse on March 27, 2019, 08:12:49 PM
I agree with the paw, in that this sounds more like a Dundon idea than an AAF idea.

I feel like it was always part of their plan as their goal seemed to be to become a feeder league for the NFL. I guess they hoped they could prove their legitimacy and strike a deal with the NFL for player exchanges.

Obviously did not work out.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 27, 2019, 08:30:42 PM
Not all players on PRs are released at the end of the year. Only the ones the team does not want back or the player does not want to return. The rest are placed on futures contracts. These, and the third string QBs are the ones the AAF wants but will never get.

How is that different than in the CFL? Players become free agents at the end of the season unless new contracts are offered. That doesn't usually happen for a month or so.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 27, 2019, 08:36:57 PM
I'll see if I can find the link to the materials that stated that... it was on reddit and they had a link to the image of the actual handout that was being passed out at the NFL combine...

I took the comments about players with " future contracts " to suggest those were signed after joining the AAF.

In theory if players signed futures contracts with the NFL they wouldn't have been allowed to sign in the AAF. At least that's the argument being made by the AAF wanting those candidates and not getting an NFL agreement.

So this really needs more explanation to clarify not only the details about the NFL experience of those with NFL history and when their futures contracts were signed.

It's not like any CFL or NFL team is going to put a top draft choice on their PR. If most PR players actually become free agents then NFL has no say in what they do.

As in the CFL some PR players might get 2nd or 3rd opportunities but chances get slimmer as a new group of draftees becomes available.





Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: lenny on March 27, 2019, 08:54:57 PM
These guys post-facto wanted to run it like an NHL/AHL situation but you don't declare you're not in competition with the NFL and want to be a feeder/development league after you created the league, financed the teams etc. If the NFL wanted to create a comparable NHL/AHL or MLB situation then you approach them beforehand and seek out the connections. Bound to fail which most predicted.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: TBURGESS on March 27, 2019, 09:27:41 PM
Best quote from the Deadspin comments section....

"No malice towards the AAF, but I hope they fold just so we can see the headline....Dundon Done!"
    :D
Best line of the day.  ;D


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 27, 2019, 11:24:47 PM
It's too bad I'm one of about twelve people or the league might have survived more than 2 months.

well, considering that is only 4 people fewer than the number of people that care about the CFL, I'd say that you are probably only 1 or 2 seasons away from folding up the tents and becoming a footnote in the history of football yourself... lol...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: blue_or_die on March 28, 2019, 12:20:19 AM
well, considering that is only 4 people fewer than the number of people that care about the CFL, I'd say that you are probably only 1 or 2 seasons away from folding up the tents and becoming a footnote in the history of football yourself... lol...

A few more people than that care about the CFL, which is why it lasted longer than 2 months.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 28, 2019, 11:12:15 AM
How is that different than in the CFL? Players become free agents at the end of the season unless new contracts are offered. That doesn't usually happen for a month or so.

Futures deals can be signed and do not need league approval, nor is their a time limit for the team to ratify them in the offseason and do not count against team maximum offseason roster limits, also there is no monetary commitment. Mainly just a way for teams to gain and hold players rights essentially.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 28, 2019, 11:18:59 AM
I find it odd that if the AAF wanted to use NFL PR players that they wouldn't have reached an agreement with the NFLPA before the season started. I really thought that this league would survive but if they don't they're just another football league to throw on the scrap heap. I believe that the XFL 2.0 is next.

If the AAF really wanted to be a developmental league with guys on futures contracts or PR players they would/should have made their schedule to coincide with the NFL so that players can have an effective offseason. Starting up months before the NFL season and ending before it starts is not a developmental league as it would produce a season that is so long it would definitely have negative effect on the players health. So I'm not buying this sudden need for NFL players made by Dundon, just a convenient excuse to fold down a money pit.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 28, 2019, 11:20:52 AM
well, considering that is only 4 people fewer than the number of people that care about the CFL, I'd say that you are probably only 1 or 2 seasons away from folding up the tents and becoming a footnote in the history of football yourself... lol...

I nominate this for dumbest post of the year. Perhaps use some thought and not emotion when you post. You come off looking petty and small with that post. The CFL has been around a 100 years and will be around another 100, if football is still being played. Unlike some pee on league like the AAF is to the US market, the CFL is part of our national fabric and will never be allowed to fail by our country. It goes beyond football, our governments would step in.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: dd on March 28, 2019, 12:44:28 PM
He?s always trolling and bashing either the CFL or Nichols, it?s what he does, just ignore him like everybody else does


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 28, 2019, 01:05:42 PM
He?s always trolling and bashing either the CFL or Nichols, it?s what he does, just ignore him like everybody else does

I generally like 66, but that post went beyond poor taste and just places a very bad look on him. There are reasons to criticize the CFL or even Matt Nichols but suggesting our league will fold because the AAF couldn't succeed is at best completely ignorant of reality, and at worst a malicious troll job.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: booch on March 28, 2019, 01:15:04 PM
Not sure what the AAF's angle is about trumpeting that such and such a percent of the players have had NFL exposure...same thing can be said about the CFL as well for former NFL exposure...also this pipe dream of "loaning/lending" PR players...would never fly...and who is paying them?...why would they take a pay cut, and why would NFL pay with a chance they get injured, then are on the hook for their salary/rehab costs...also what PR guy would even agree to that?...pretty much none.



Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 28, 2019, 01:43:38 PM
Well there are only so many rosters spots in any league. Some players will never get more than some brief PR time. Others will bounce around for a few seasons. As players age, develop injury issues or become SMS casualties they are replaced by younger draftees each season.

So it's not surprising that many AAF or CFL players have spent some team with an NFL team. There   
will be some that show well and get new opportunities in the NFL.

Not every player that gets released in TC is a bad player. It's a numbers game along with SMS factors and who looked better in a short TC and avoids any early injury.

Why the AAF bothers making the point of players with NFL experience is essentially just quoting the obvious.

IMO they were really over selling the feeder league idea to draw fan interest. In the end the product on the field will determine their ultimate success. The first step is to be profitable and I don't see that actually happening.

8 teams, 10 games = 40 game season. Of those only 2 per week are televised in Vancouver. Perhaps more are shown in the US but this limits financial reward for broadcasting rights. We're hearing mixed analysis about paid live attendance and how that steps up against costs.





Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 28, 2019, 02:01:44 PM
well, considering that is only 4 people fewer than the number of people that care about the CFL, I'd say that you are probably only 1 or 2 seasons away from folding up the tents and becoming a footnote in the history of football yourself... lol...

Do us all a favour: leave this forum and cease your CFL fandom with petulant, ignorant comments like this.

This comment is about as pathetic as the AAF has been.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: theaardvark on March 28, 2019, 02:58:29 PM
Futures deals can be signed and do not need league approval, nor is their a time limit for the team to ratify them in the offseason and do not count against team maximum offseason roster limits, also there is no monetary commitment. Mainly just a way for teams to gain and hold players rights essentially.

The NFL equivalent of a neg list, except it is not secret...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 28, 2019, 04:12:20 PM
The NFL equivalent of a neg list, except it is not secret...

Pretty much except you are actually under contract and can go to no other league that honors NFL contracts. A much more team friendly arrangement than our neg lists.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: theaardvark on March 28, 2019, 04:18:17 PM
Pretty much except you are actually under contract and can go to no other league that honors NFL contracts. A much more team friendly arrangement than our neg lists.

I guess, but the secrecy of a CFL neg list is also a factor... also, aren't futures contracts pretty easy to get out of if you get a real offer of a contract elsewhere?  Seems I always see that happening... 


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 28, 2019, 04:46:02 PM
I guess, but the secrecy of a CFL neg list is also a factor... also, aren't futures contracts pretty easy to get out of if you get a real offer of a contract elsewhere?  Seems I always see that happening... 

Nope...they are a contract. Other teams cannot even talk to you.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 28, 2019, 05:16:16 PM
Nope...they are a contract. Other teams cannot even talk to you.

Does that mean the report by Chevelle66 that many AAF players ( 49 ) had futures contracts was incorrect?

Does the AAF even honor NFL contracts? You'd think they would if they were trying to negotiate some sort of deal with the NFL.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 28, 2019, 06:04:06 PM
Does that mean the report by Chevelle66 that many AAF players ( 49 ) had futures contracts was incorrect?

Does the AAF even honor NFL contracts? You'd think they would if they were trying to negotiate some sort of deal with the NFL.

These players would not be allowed to play in the AAF if they had already signed futures contracts. They can however terminate their AAF contract and sign a futures deal at any time. Perhaps this is what he means, that 49 players left the AAF to sign futures contracts. However, I have not seen a single source anywhere indicating that any AAF players have done so as of yet. The NFLPA will not allow players under NFL contract to play in the AAF. Period. There are currently ZERO AAF players under contract in the NFL.

EDIT:

There have not even been 20 contracts terminated by the AAF yet. Bunch of malarkey that 66 is shoveling.

IMO, there is possibly a list of 49 players under futures contracts that the AAF would like to have in their league and the NFLPA has told them "not a chance bub". Calling them AAF players in that circumstance is comical really.
Dundon is not trying to apply leverage to the CFLPA...there is no leverage. He is trying to test the NFL owners who have agreed to allow futures contracts players to play in the AAF to see if they will negotiate injury settlement provisions for these players if they are injured while in his league. This is something that according to FOXsports the NFL owners are vehemently against. Therefore, the AAF is caught between a rock and a hard place. A union that won't allow it's players to play in his league without insurance against injury, and NFL owners who are unwilling to provide that insurance.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 28, 2019, 08:07:16 PM
That makes more sense. Especially since it was reported so early in the AAF season. If any interest in AAF players had developed by NFL teams we'd have heard the specifics.

As has been mentioned it's not a great idea for players to move from one league to another in such a short time span. Even with the short AAF season, it's going to take a physical toll to jump into another season of football into the NFL.

I guess we'll see what happens at the end of their season but I have doubts of any major influx from AAF to NFL or even the CFL.

I don't think chevelle66 intended to mislead us but the premise seemed odd by all accounts.

EDIT: Just noticed all 4 games seem to be on the broadcast schedule this week on TSN. I wonder what changed.



Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 28, 2019, 08:58:45 PM
oh the double standard... do as I say, not as I do... lol...  I guess when you're part of the majority it's okay to make stupid comments, make up your own reality...  but I'll stay as long as I want to stay, or until I'm banned... but if one would check, instead of posting trolling comments, you would see that I add as much relevant content here as anyone...

so there's that...

as far as the AAF posting being a lie, well once again, here's a link to want I referenced...

http://sg-dbooks.com/AAF/2019-Combine/2/ (http://sg-dbooks.com/AAF/2019-Combine/2/)

so, there's that...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on March 28, 2019, 09:12:24 PM
Why so much arguing here? It's a good in theory league, however it appears that they didn't have enough money to keep it a-float, IMO they offered players too much for a start-up league. Got a influx of money from Dundon to keep it a-float and he is "getting cold feet". We don't really know why invested in the first place, did he just want rights to the gambling app? Did he over estimate the NFL's interest, maybe it was to impress a cheerleader or about a million other possibly scenarios. If he didn't would there even be a AAF still? Will we still have the AAF in two weeks?

At the end of the day if they do fold eh....they had some good ideas and put together a pretty respectible group of players and coaches. It will be unfortunate as players, coaches, trainers, heck even stadium cleaners will lose jobs and that sucks. Does it really matter at the end of the day if 49 players used the out clause or whether it's "fake news".......


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 28, 2019, 09:39:56 PM
oh the double standard... do as I say, not as I do... lol...  I guess when you're part of the majority it's okay to make stupid comments, make up your own reality...  but I'll stay as long as I want to stay, or until I'm banned... but if one would check, instead of posting trolling comments, you would see that I add as much relevant content here as anyone...

so there's that...

as far as the AAF posting being a lie, well once again, here's a link to want I referenced...

http://sg-dbooks.com/AAF/2019-Combine/2/ (http://sg-dbooks.com/AAF/2019-Combine/2/)

so, there's that...

It's all about context. The way I read that link was that some AAF players had offers previously from NFL team, not that they had current offers. The link mentioned 187 players had an NFL tryout. In itself that is not significant. CFL teams probably see a bunch of the same players at open tryout that may have had an NFL tryout earlier.

So from a context point of view your early comment was misleading. As I said I don't believe that was your intent.

It appears that AAF players can only accept a new NFL offer after the completion of the AAF season.

That was not how it was represented originally.

Quit playing the victim of the conversation.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 28, 2019, 10:32:57 PM
It's all about context. The way I read that link was that some AAF players had offers previously from NFL team, not that they had current offers. The link mentioned 187 players had an NFL tryout. In itself that is not significant. CFL teams probably see a bunch of the same players at open tryout that may have had an NFL tryout earlier.

So from a context point of view your early comment was misleading. As I said I don't believe that was your intent.

It appears that AAF players can only accept a new NFL offer after the completion of the AAF season.

That was not how it was represented originally.

Quit playing the victim of the conversation.

it's not context... when it says that 49 Alliance players exercised "NFL outs", you have to be under AAF contract to be considered an AAF player which is the only way you can exercise an "NFL out"... I'm not sure how much clearer it could be but feel free to interpret it any way you want... I was just passing along information that I found...

as far as playing victim? hardly... but if some want to call me out I'm going to respond... nothing more, nothing less...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: the paw on March 29, 2019, 01:06:26 AM
it's not context... when it says that 49 Alliance players exercised "NFL outs", you have to be under AAF contract to be considered an AAF player which is the only way you can exercise an "NFL out"... I'm not sure how much clearer it could be but feel free to interpret it any way you want... I was just passing along information that I found...

as far as playing victim? hardly... but if some want to call me out I'm going to respond... nothing more, nothing less...

The same material says that an AAF player can exercise the NFL out during the period between the AAF Championship game and the end of the NFL season.  The heading says 49 players exercised the NFL out during the 2018 NFL season (before the AAF was operational).

So it seems clear that 49 guys signed with AAF, got an offer from the NFL, and left before playing a game in the AAF.  I think it would be a little hyperbolic for the AAF to take credit for coaching up, promoting, or even giving exposure to these 49 players. 

The real test will be how many current AAF roster guys exercise their NFL out after next month (assuming the league is still there).


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 29, 2019, 02:51:16 AM
The same material says that an AAF player can exercise the NFL out during the period between the AAF Championship game and the end of the NFL season.  The heading says 49 players exercised the NFL out during the 2018 NFL season (before the AAF was operational).

So it seems clear that 49 guys signed with AAF, got an offer from the NFL, and left before playing a game in the AAF.  I think it would be a little hyperbolic for the AAF to take credit for coaching up, promoting, or even giving exposure to these 49 players. 

The real test will be how many current AAF roster guys exercise their NFL out after next month (assuming the league is still there).

I think that when looking at this document it's important to understand the intent of the information included and the target audience... this wasn't a public document that was handed out to the press or media to try and make claims of success... it was a hand out that was given to players that were at this year's NFL combine to educate and recruit those players that are not drafted and not signed as non drafted free agents after the draft.. they are saying 'hey look, even if you don't get a call on draft day, the NFL is looking at players that we sign and we will give you the best chance to make it to the NFL'...

but I agree with you, the real proof in the pudding will be how many players get a call after the season is over and more importantly, how many actually make a PR or AR roster at the end of the process...

some may feel that just getting a chance to go to camp would be worth the experience of playing in the league as they may not have gotten that chance otherwise...

it's a crap shoot at the end of the day but I think we all can agree that many players are willing to do almost anything to get that call... the AAF is saying, we'll give you the best chance at getting that call and pay you as well... it's a recruitment tool... whether it's true or not is yet to be determined...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: ModAdmin on March 29, 2019, 04:12:28 AM
Dave Naylor on the AAF

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nfl/aaf-may-not-make-it-beyond-this-weekend/ar-BBVl0yy


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on March 29, 2019, 09:26:23 AM
well, considering that is only 4 people fewer than the number of people that care about the CFL, I'd say that you are probably only 1 or 2 seasons away from folding up the tents and becoming a footnote in the history of football yourself... lol...
wow what a out to lunch comment from someone who lives in the states... surprising and disappointing.

It will likely die within a week and your AAF predictions were misconstrued. You maybe upset but to make a comment like that shows extreme ignorance.

Polian looks lame as well on this one.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 29, 2019, 01:08:06 PM
it's not context... when it says that 49 Alliance players exercised "NFL outs", you have to be under AAF contract to be considered an AAF player which is the only way you can exercise an "NFL out"... I'm not sure how much clearer it could be but feel free to interpret it any way you want... I was just passing along information that I found...

as far as playing victim? hardly... but if some want to call me out I'm going to respond... nothing more, nothing less...

The AAF didn't start playing until 2019. The link says that 49 players used the NFL out clause during the 2018 NFL season.

That MIGHT suggest players that were signed early by the AAF then received offers to join NFL teams on AR, PR or just future contracts.

I'm not sure if you can qualify an AAF player a player that didn't even attend a TC as ever really being part of that league.

The way your original post read, it sounded as though players began to get or currently had NFL deals in place. That made it appear they left once the season started or would possibly be joining at NFL team at the end of the AAF season.

None of that seems to be valid. As GCN18 pointed out there haven't even been 20 players that have left the AAF since the season started.

How is that not clear and a complete contradiction to the original / continuing discussion?

The PAW said the same thing in response to your post. He may have said it better.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 29, 2019, 01:18:13 PM
Anyway. I don't know how much there is to the AAF possibly ending after this week. Sounds like a bit of a bluff on their part. Can't see the NFL ever giving them what they want so season one might be one and done. Ending early might create a multitude of lawsuits so I'd expect them to complete the season.

That turmoil in itself might make re-signing or signing players more difficult going into a possible season 2.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 29, 2019, 02:02:14 PM
Anyway. I don't know how much there is to the AAF possibly ending after this week. Sounds like a bit of a bluff on their part. Can't see the NFL ever giving them what they want so season one might be one and done. Ending early might create a multitude of lawsuits so I'd expect them to complete the season.

That turmoil in itself might make re-signing or signing players more difficult going into a possible season 2.

When the top exec of a sports league publically announced the league may be days away from folding you best believe him. Their is no circumstance EVER in which any league ever says something like this unless it's true because it absolutely decimates attendance, viewership, and overall interest in the league from fans and potential players. Dundon would have to be the stupidest man on earth to issue this kind of statement as a bluff. If he were bluffing he would never give a drop dead date of two days, and he certainly would never state the end result would be the league folding. Make no mistake he's looking for NFL owners to come in and save the day for him and if they don't he, and his money, are getting out of dodge.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 29, 2019, 02:21:30 PM
When the top exec of a sports league publically announced the league may be days away from folding you best believe him. Their is no circumstance EVER in which any league ever says something like this unless it's true because it absolutely decimates attendance, viewership, and overall interest in the league from fans and potential players. Dundon would have to be the stupidest man on earth to issue this kind of statement as a bluff. If he were bluffing he would never give a drop dead date of two days, and he certainly would never state the end result would be the league folding. Make no mistake he's looking for NFL owners to come in and save the day for him and if they don't he, and his money, are getting out of dodge.

I haven't ruled out the fact he might be an idiot. In any case I guess we'll see if they make it to next week. To some degree I feel sorry for the players. Even if the league survives I think the short time before TC's is going to make most teams hesitant to look at many of the players.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 29, 2019, 03:28:00 PM
I haven't ruled out the fact he might be an idiot. In any case I guess we'll see if they make it to next week. To some degree I feel sorry for the players. Even if the league survives I think the short time before TC's is going to make most teams hesitant to look at many of the players.

Dundon is flakier than a Crisco pie shell but he is not an idiot. You don't amass a billion dollars from the ground up by not understanding business.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 29, 2019, 04:15:02 PM
Dundon is flakier than a Crisco pie shell but he is not an idiot. You don't amass a billion dollars from the ground up by not understanding business.

Trump did. Don't know anything about Dundon. Trump proved you can make money by having no morals, ethic, disdain for tax law and law in general and being planet idiot # 1.

Anyway I guess we'll know soon enough what happens. I do expect the AAF to complete this season. Beyond that I'm not sure but odds are against it IMO. No just because of the NFL position but it doesn't seem to have the ability to be profitable on it's own standing.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: blue_or_die on March 29, 2019, 05:18:36 PM
Trump did. Don't know anything about Dundon. Trump proved you can make money by having no morals, ethic, disdain for tax law and law in general and being planet idiot # 1.

Anyway I guess we'll know soon enough what happens. I do expect the AAF to complete this season. Beyond that I'm not sure but odds are against it IMO. No just because of the NFL position but it doesn't seem to have the ability to be profitable on it's own standing.

To further your point:

https://deadspin.com/the-hurricanes-new-owner-got-rich-off-subprime-loans-1822129399 (https://deadspin.com/the-hurricanes-new-owner-got-rich-off-subprime-loans-1822129399)


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 29, 2019, 07:00:47 PM
To further your point:

https://deadspin.com/the-hurricanes-new-owner-got-rich-off-subprime-loans-1822129399 (https://deadspin.com/the-hurricanes-new-owner-got-rich-off-subprime-loans-1822129399)

Regretfully many millionaires or billionaires built their fortunes on the backs of average folk. Is it any surprise that Trump ( as the example ) has had several bankruptcies, failed businesses or something like 3500 lawsuits? Not to mention writing off $1 BILLION one tax year and refuses to show his income tax ( the norm for politicians running for pres )?


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Fire101 on March 29, 2019, 08:38:44 PM
This is bad, according to this article one of the teams fired their radio broadcast team last week, and couldn't get Workers Compensation for their players.


https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/open-mike/os-sp-spurrier-aaf-apollos-dundon-fold-20190327-story.html

From the article, "Question for Dundon and the league's other executives: Since when did it become the NFL or the NFLPA's responsibility to make this league work? The AAF was not created as a farm system for the NFL and was supposed to be able to stand on its own. Now, halfway through its first season, we are being told that it may fold without the NFL's backing."

With respect to the farm system issue, the NFL already has a farm system and it's called the NCAA. And it's free.




Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: theaardvark on March 30, 2019, 12:38:39 AM
This is bad, according to this article one of the teams fired their radio broadcast team last week, and couldn't get Workers Compensation for their players.


https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/open-mike/os-sp-spurrier-aaf-apollos-dundon-fold-20190327-story.html

From the article, "Question for Dundon and the league's other executives: Since when did it become the NFL or the NFLPA's responsibility to make this league work? The AAF was not created as a farm system for the NFL and was supposed to be able to stand on its own. Now, halfway through its first season, we are being told that it may fold without the NFL's backing."

With respect to the farm system issue, the NFL already has a farm system and it's called the NCAA. And it's free.

Pretty sure this was not meant to be anything BUT a farm team for the NFL.  8 teams, 8 games in a season?  Offset from the NFL season?  And no shortage of them trumpeting "the perfect opportunity for backup OL and QB to get live game snaps they would never see in the NFL..."


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Jesse on March 30, 2019, 02:50:16 AM
Pretty sure this was not meant to be anything BUT a farm team for the NFL.  8 teams, 8 games in a season?  Offset from the NFL season?  And no shortage of them trumpeting "the perfect opportunity for backup OL and QB to get live game snaps they would never see in the NFL..."

A true farm team would operate during the nfl season, in nfl cities.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: kkc60 on March 30, 2019, 11:42:57 AM
A true farm team would operate during the nfl season, in nfl cities.
First part sure. Only because it seems right. At the same time, a farm team operating during the offseason makes sense too. It allows NFL teams to spend more effort scouting guys and signing them. Plus then theres no issue with differentiating a practice squad guy and a farm team guy.

As for operating in NFL cities...no. that's not a must. Not all NHL teams have their farm team in the same city. Some not even in the same country. Keep in mind farm team players would need salaries, ditto anyone working for the team. Putting a farm team in the same city as the NFL team could work...for some markets. Definitely not all though.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on March 30, 2019, 01:21:14 PM
A farm or feeder league doesn't make sense and will never work outside of that league's season. What the AAF really failed to take into account was how many of the NCAA guys would commit to the NFL after their senior year and bypass their league entirely. They thought they would pick up the top 100 UDFAs each year and found out they all preferred to sign futures deals instead.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on March 30, 2019, 02:24:17 PM
So now stories start popping about about the league not paying bills, teams not able to get workers compensations.  This doesn?t look good how long till the players coaches, managers etc. Don?t get paid. I wanted it to survive but all signs point to it being already a foregone conclusion to fold any day.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on March 31, 2019, 01:23:44 PM
Didn't watch all of either game today. Did notice Gerrard Sheppard on Memphis. He played 7 games for Winnipeg in 2017.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: dd on April 01, 2019, 02:34:57 AM
I watched the sad 8-3 game, where the only TD or the game was a botched snap, and the Qb ha ding the ball off from his knees to a RB to crash into the end zone on a short yardage play. Nail biting entertainment at its best!!! I reffed senior football here and this league reminds me of that where you really only have a couple of athletes per team and the rest are slugs. Glad I only watched the 4th quarter as it was worse than anything I?ve ever witnessed north of the 49th !!


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on April 01, 2019, 11:28:50 AM
I wat he?s the sad 8-3 game, where the only TD or the game was a botched snap, and the Qb ha ding the ball off from his knees to a RB to crash into the end zone on a short yardage play. Nail biting entertainment at its best!!! I reffed senior football here and this league reminds me of that where you really only have a couple of athletes per team and the rest are slugs. Glad I only watched the 4th quarter as it was worse than anything I?ve ever witnessed north of the 49th !!

Unfortunately for this league it was a foregone conclusion that the football would be bad this year. Quality of their players aside, it is very difficult to take 60 guys without an iota of continuity and have them firing on all cylinders in the first year. Essentially there are 8 expansion teams in this league. It was never going to be good, and I don't believe that this league truly thought things through. They needed a 2 month TC to even resemble good football or a huge war chest of money to get them through the first year. Neither happened.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: buckzumhoff on April 01, 2019, 02:18:49 PM
This league will stick around. too may good players in football to let it go down. I like the league. They should adopt a little more kicking game into their league.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: booch on April 01, 2019, 02:21:21 PM
doesn't matter how many good players kicking around..if it isn't feasible, has no following and loses money...will not last


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on April 01, 2019, 03:50:56 PM
Unfortunately for this league it was a foregone conclusion that the football would be bad this year. Quality of their players aside, it is very difficult to take 60 guys without an iota of continuity and have them firing on all cylinders in the first year. Essentially there are 8 expansion teams in this league. It was never going to be good, and I don't believe that this league truly thought things through. They needed a 2 month TC to even resemble good football or a huge war chest of money to get them through the first year. Neither happened.

Very true, also from a business perspective expectations should be 3-4 years before they can begin to turn a profit.  Hard to believe league organizers would be naive enough to think otherwise when they set forth, we shall see.  People are too quick to throw stones nowadays, everything requires a development window, instant success is unreasonable and patience is in short supply. 


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on April 01, 2019, 05:12:12 PM
Very true, also from a business perspective expectations should be 3-4 years before they can begin to turn a profit.  Hard to believe league organizers would be naive enough to think otherwise when they set forth, we shall see.  People are too quick to throw stones nowadays, everything requires a development window, instant success is unreasonable and patience is in short supply. 

For sure. The folly of this league doesn't lie with the quality of players. It was improperly planned and executed from the beginning. The league completely overestimated how willing the fans would be to watch very bad football for a while.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on April 01, 2019, 05:13:42 PM
This league will stick around. too may good players in football to let it go down. I like the league. They should adopt a little more kicking game into their league.

This league will stick around only if some angel investor comes in to provide some cost sharing for Dundon.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: blue_or_die on April 01, 2019, 07:15:01 PM
Very true, also from a business perspective expectations should be 3-4 years before they can begin to turn a profit.  Hard to believe league organizers would be naive enough to think otherwise when they set forth, we shall see.  People are too quick to throw stones nowadays, everything requires a development window, instant success is unreasonable and patience is in short supply

And that's exactly the reason most thought it would fail. It needed to be a smash hit instantly (not a reasonable expectation) and it has not been. To think it would have - that fans would embrace newbie teams with ??s playing, who have zero chemistry and in most cases haven't played a snap in a while - is where the naivety lies.

This was never a debate about wanting this to succeed/fail, it was a debate about the business case and market willingness.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: dd on April 02, 2019, 03:19:43 AM
Unfortunately for this league it was a foregone conclusion that the football would be bad this year. Quality of their players aside, it is very difficult to take 60 guys without an iota of continuity and have them firing on all cylinders in the first year. Essentially there are 8 expansion teams in this league. It was never going to be good, and I don't believe that this league truly thought things through. They needed a 2 month TC to even resemble good football or a huge war chest of money to get them through the first year. Neither happened.
Ottawa seemed to do ok their first year, they looked far, far better than anything the aaf is throwing around, and remember these football players are the ones trying to crack nfl rosters


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on April 02, 2019, 11:07:19 AM
Ottawa seemed to do ok their first year, they looked far, far better than anything the aaf is throwing around, and remember these football players are the ones trying to crack nfl rosters

Ottawa was a 2 win team their first season mostly because they played some very sloppy and ugly football at times.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: The Zipp on April 02, 2019, 04:12:49 PM
And the league has suspended operations as of today...

All over Twitter...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: BlueInCgy on April 02, 2019, 04:18:01 PM
The one interesting thing I found out throughout this was that, prior to starting up the XFL, Vince McMahon tried to buy the CFL and relocate the teams south (the CFL wanted him to buy the Argos apparently, and he wanted the whole deal).

Anyway, bye bye AAF, thanks for trying. 

Interesting how the failure of the AAF and the original XFL both had nearly identical losses (~$70M).


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on April 02, 2019, 04:23:39 PM
I wonder if any of the players caught the eye of CFL GM's and might get TC invites.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: The Zipp on April 02, 2019, 04:31:05 PM
I wonder if any of the players caught the eye of CFL GM's and might get TC invites.

Was wondering that too...I never watched more than 10 minutes in total but maybe there were some decent receivers in the mix??


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Ridermania on April 02, 2019, 04:39:16 PM
The AAF will suspend all football operations today.

New owner Tom Dundon will lose approximately $70 million on his investment.

Dundon makes decision against wishes of league co-founders Charlie Ebersol and Bill Polian.

https://www.tsn.ca/reports-aaf-to-suspend-operations-today-1.1283844


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: theaardvark on April 02, 2019, 04:44:24 PM

Jamie Nye @jamienye

#CFL GMs right now contacting agents of AAF players....

(https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/D3KdTLaWsAElYph.jpg)


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on April 02, 2019, 04:46:20 PM
Was wondering that too...I never watched more than 10 minutes in total but maybe there were some decent receivers in the mix??

I tried to watch 1st half of most games. It was hard because I found the games so boring for the most part.

So I don't have many players in particular in mind. However, 8 teams with perhaps 50 players each = 400+ possible candidates to consider.

There are bound to be some that will get looks and inquiries. Many will not give up NFL dreams and CFL ELC's will dissuade some from coming north.

However there will be a number of players that might draw interest.

Actually one that does come to mind is Ciante Evans. I think I mentioned him before and was surprised that he even didn't re-sign in Calgary.

If he returns to the CFL he'll be expensive and probably ends up back in Calgary.  It's not so much that we need him but he's a top CFL DB and I would at least contact his agent.



Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on April 02, 2019, 04:47:34 PM
Jamie Nye @jamienye

#CFL GMs right now contacting agents of AAF players....

(https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/D3KdTLaWsAElYph.jpg)

Nothing to lose by doing so. Some may have been on CFL neg lists recently or for some time.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on April 02, 2019, 05:03:09 PM
Nothing to lose by doing so. Some may have been on CFL neg lists recently or for some time.

Mekale Mckay, a big receiver, who showed very well in the AAF is on our neg list.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on April 02, 2019, 05:16:09 PM
Sounds like a disingenuous argument to me.  

Their original business concept did not rely on using active NFL PR players, so this is a new aspect that seems to be the brainchild of Dundon.  

It seems to suggest that fans are attending due to player quality.  Surely they would expect the quality of players attracted and retained to improve over their first year, and making a determination about what fans will and won't support on this limited sample size seems hasty.

I think its entirely feasible Dundon is floating this bogus excuse when his real agenda is to get his hands on proprietary gambling apps and tech that GCn18 flagged some time ago.  

Of course Dundon wouldn't be a factor if Ebersol had been telling the truth about the financing and investment he had purportedly lined up before launch.  

My suspicions were confirmed by 3DN today. It was all about the gambling app according to a quote from an AAF insider to 3DN. I had read rumblings about this a few hours after the purchase in week 2. I wish I could remember where I read it because man did that guy hit the nail on the head right off the bat. Literally hours after the week 2 bailout.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on April 02, 2019, 05:28:18 PM
Bunch of AAF players twittering around suggesting that if Polian can find an angel investor all the league needs is 20 million to complete the season.

Unfortunately, that's not true. The league would need a further 20 million to complete the season AND 70 million to buy the league back from Dundon. Of course, I suppose they could just let Dundon walk with the gambling app, as that's all he really wanted anyway, and he might turn the keys over to someone else....but I doubt this kind of deal could be worked out quickly enough to save this season.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: bomber4life85 on April 02, 2019, 06:02:42 PM
this does not come as a surprise.. I seen clips of a few games with a crowd comparable to university football here in some games.. soo.. definitely saw this coming.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: blue_gold_84 on April 02, 2019, 06:09:27 PM
Well, that's a shame. An expected development based on how things have gone, but this still stings for the coaches, players, etc. who are now effectively out of work.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on April 02, 2019, 06:17:33 PM
So much for some early worrying that the CFL was going to be losing a lot of current talent to the AAF.

Now we'll see where the dust settles for players. How many get NFL or CFL deals for TC's.

The coaching talent pool may have opened up a bit for the Redblacks needing to replace Elizondo. Although many of those coaches may be too expensive.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: BlueInCgy on April 02, 2019, 06:18:17 PM
Actually, it's not the worst case scenario for some of the players.  CFL players who left (i.e. Ciante Evans) can still come back before training camp, so they pocketed a little bit of cash and can try and pick up where they left off.  For the guys who were not linked to CFL or NFL teams/prospects, it's not a great situation, and for anyone who got hurt, it outright sucks.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Blue In BC on April 02, 2019, 06:32:46 PM
Actually, it's not the worst case scenario for some of the players.  CFL players who left (i.e. Ciante Evans) can still come back before training camp, so they pocketed a little bit of cash and can try and pick up where they left off.  For the guys who were not linked to CFL or NFL teams/prospects, it's not a great situation, and for anyone who got hurt, it outright sucks.

There are a few ex CFL players in the AAF. Sinkfield, Wynn and Evan are the only ones I'm aware of that left during free agency. Others like K. Bass for example were already out of the CFL as far as I can tell.

Sinkfield came up in earlier post strings a possible target to bring explore during free agency. Again, it doesn't hurt to call his agent I suppose. OTOH he's only played a few CFL games since 2015 and hasn't done much since.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on April 02, 2019, 06:39:37 PM
So Dundon ends up ahead roughly 30mil for the gambling app. I guess one can argue a smart investment.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Colton on April 02, 2019, 06:44:06 PM
So Dundon ends up ahead roughly 30mil for the gambling app. I guess one can argue a smart investment.

We'll see if the gambling app is worth anything within a year or two. That's still seems like a pretty big if. What is/was it supposed to do differently than any existing platform?


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on April 02, 2019, 06:54:52 PM
So players were to get 75k this year plus pension, extended benefits etc. Well I'm sure the pension and extended benefits are toast. I would be willing to wager that players did not get close to the full 75k, potentially 60k  (75k/10=7.5k/game x8)and will never see a penny more. Even if they attempt to "go after" or sue all those promises are toast. It sucks for the players and everyone else who is out a job, but it sticks it to those players that whined about what the CFL was paying and offering. The CFL may not be perfect but no ids forcing anyone to play in it and at least when the players do, they actually get their paycheques.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Ridermania on April 02, 2019, 08:36:27 PM
There were a handful of former CFL players who elected to sign with the Alliance of American Football league.

With the league suspending football operations, there will be players looking for work and potentially come back north of the border.

Canadians:
Brett Boyko, OL
The 26-year-old has spent parts of four seasons in the NFL with the Philadelphia Eagles and Chargers after going unselected in the 2015 draft. After signing an NFL undrafted free agent contract in 2015, Boyko fell to the third round in the CFL Draft when the B.C. Lions chose him 19th overall. Still property of the Lions.

Stefan Charles, DL
Charles has played in 49 NFL games making 60 tackles and recording five sacks over four seasons with the Bills and Detroit Lions. He was drafted by Edmonton in the second round, 10th overall by the Eskimos during the 2013 CFL draft. Still property of the Esks.

Americans:
Terrell Sinkfield, REC
Sinkfield has played 36 games during parts of four CFL seasons, making 108 catches for 1,592 yards and 10 touchdowns while adding 44 carries for 296 yards. His best season came in 2015 with Hamilton when he played in 15 games and made 69 catches for 1,030 yards and six touchdowns. All international players with CFL experience are free agents.

Dylan Wynn, DL
The 25-year-old made 30 tackles and two sacks for the Toronto Argonauts last season and 34 tackles with six sacks to help the Argos win the 2017 Grey Cup. Wynn was named an East Division all-star that year.

Freddie Bishop III, DL
Bishop played the three seasons with the Stamps from 2013 to 2015 making 60 tackles and 14 sacks while winning a Grey Cup in 2014. The 28-year-old was drawing CFL interest, but opted for the AAF to try and earn another shot in the NFL.

Khalil Bass, LB
Bass spent four seasons in the CFL playing 48 games making 223 tackles, 11 sacks, forcing five fumbles, intercepting three pass and scoring two touchdowns. The 28-year-old won a Grey Cup with Toronto in 2017.

Ciante Evans, DB
Evans played four seasons with the Calgary Stampeders, suiting up in 48 games making 127 tackles, nine interceptions and three forced fumbles. The 26-year-old was a CFL all-star in 2017 and West Division all-star in 2018.

Sergio Castillo, K/P
Castillo was in the CFL for parts of three seasons. He played 20 games making 39-of-47 field goal attempts (83 per cent), 25-of-27 converts while punting 114 times for 5,133 yards (45 average).

Johnny Manziel, QB
Manziel passed for 1,290 yards, five touchdowns versus seven interceptions and rushed 29 times for 215 yards ending the 2018 season, his first in the CFL, 2-6 as Montreals starter. Of course, whether the league would let him return is another question?


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: theaardvark on April 02, 2019, 09:22:19 PM
There were a handful of former CFL players who elected to sign with the Alliance of American Football league.

With the league suspending football operations, there will be players looking for work and potentially come back north of the border.

Canadians:
Brett Boyko, OL
The 26-year-old has spent parts of four seasons in the NFL with the Philadelphia Eagles and Chargers after going unselected in the 2015 draft. After signing an NFL undrafted free agent contract in 2015, Boyko fell to the third round in the CFL Draft when the B.C. Lions chose him 19th overall. Still property of the Lions.

Stefan Charles, DL
Charles has played in 49 NFL games making 60 tackles and recording five sacks over four seasons with the Bills and Detroit Lions. He was drafted by Edmonton in the second round, 10th overall by the Eskimos during the 2013 CFL draft. Still property of the Esks.

Americans:
Terrell Sinkfield, REC
Sinkfield has played 36 games during parts of four CFL seasons, making 108 catches for 1,592 yards and 10 touchdowns while adding 44 carries for 296 yards. His best season came in 2015 with Hamilton when he played in 15 games and made 69 catches for 1,030 yards and six touchdowns. All international players with CFL experience are free agents.

Dylan Wynn, DL
The 25-year-old made 30 tackles and two sacks for the Toronto Argonauts last season and 34 tackles with six sacks to help the Argos win the 2017 Grey Cup. Wynn was named an East Division all-star that year.

Freddie Bishop III, DL
Bishop played the three seasons with the Stamps from 2013 to 2015 making 60 tackles and 14 sacks while winning a Grey Cup in 2014. The 28-year-old was drawing CFL interest, but opted for the AAF to try and earn another shot in the NFL.

Khalil Bass, LB
Bass spent four seasons in the CFL playing 48 games making 223 tackles, 11 sacks, forcing five fumbles, intercepting three pass and scoring two touchdowns. The 28-year-old won a Grey Cup with Toronto in 2017.

Ciante Evans, DB
Evans played four seasons with the Calgary Stampeders, suiting up in 48 games making 127 tackles, nine interceptions and three forced fumbles. The 26-year-old was a CFL all-star in 2017 and West Division all-star in 2018.

Sergio Castillo, K/P
Castillo was in the CFL for parts of three seasons. He played 20 games making 39-of-47 field goal attempts (83 per cent), 25-of-27 converts while punting 114 times for 5,133 yards (45 average).

Johnny Manziel, QB
Manziel passed for 1,290 yards, five touchdowns versus seven interceptions and rushed 29 times for 215 yards ending the 2018 season, his first in the CFL, 2-6 as Montreals starter. Of course, whether the league would let him return is another question?


Nice concise effort there, Ridermania.  You write very professionally.

Boyko and Charles my wait for XFL, what with having to sign 2 year deals with only an NFL out (will the CFLPA add in an XFL window in this CBA?)  But should they choose the CFL, they should make decent coin.

The rest are fairly m'eh, except maybe Evans...  but I can see the Stamps stepping up to get him back.

Manzeil will never play north of the 49th parallel again, the XFL will not have him due to his history, and the NFL still giggles at his name.  So this is officially the end of the line in pro ball... I'm sure Arena League or Texas Semi Pro leagues might look at him... 



Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: The Zipp on April 02, 2019, 11:46:38 PM
From twitter (Albert Breer):

Couple other cost-cutting AAF details I unearthed/found interesting ...

? Only coaches/players were allowed eat on the team plane. Docs, trainers, equipment guys weren't fed.

? Night-before-game team dinners were eliminated. Players got a $30 per diem instead.


Joke of a league run and hyped by shysters and promoted by players as a true "pro league"...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on April 03, 2019, 12:49:32 AM
I don't feel tbe least bit sorry for any of tbe employees or players of this league. A quick 5 minutes with a calculator should have told them this was a probability. However, i do feel for the small number of this league's loyal fans who deserved better than this.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: The Zipp on April 03, 2019, 01:29:09 AM
From Jim barker:

Jim Barker: "As soon as it happened today you had to be fast because we lost 2 players to another team that just beat us to the call. It was a crazy day in personnel offices across the #CFL. Everyone was prepared for it but it was still a crazy day." #Ticats via @SportsOn770

Jim Barker: "I believe you'll probably end up seeing maybe 20 players that were in that league (#AAF). They were trying to call themselves a developmental league. But a lot of their better players, they brought them in to improve the quality of play" #CFL #Ticats via @SportsOn770


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: swansong on April 03, 2019, 01:36:04 AM
Nice concise effort there, Ridermania.  You write very professionally.

Perhaps but he didn't write this

https://3downnation.com/2019/04/02/aaf-players-who-could-be-on-their-way-back-to-the-cfl/


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: TecnoGenius on April 03, 2019, 04:13:32 AM
Well this sucks.  I was starting to enjoy having 4 games of football to watch each weekend (BlueSky channel 222 was starting to show them all).  The play was sub-par, but it was better than nothing.  I was starting to cheer for Iron, Fleet and Hotshots.

Like any league, there were some standout players.  I was starting to try to pay attention to names for possible WFC acquisitions, but none are on the tip of my tongue at the moment.

There were a few decent receivers that started showing up, but none that struck me as a perfect WFC fit.

I feel sorry for the players and coaches who were really giving it a go with the best intentions.  A steady paycheck for being able to play ball is better than the alternatives for many.  I don't feel sorry for any who scoffed at the CFL though.

As for Johnny Foosball... well he made the dumbest decision ever, in hindsight.  He could have been starting in MTL in a couple more months, trying to become a legit CFL starting threat, instead he's burned all his bridges and left with no outlet to feed his narcissism.  He's the poster child on how to not manage your football career, and should be a case study for every new student of the game.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on April 03, 2019, 11:14:06 AM
From Jim barker:

Jim Barker: "As soon as it happened today you had to be fast because we lost 2 players to another team that just beat us to the call. It was a crazy day in personnel offices across the #CFL. Everyone was prepared for it but it was still a crazy day." #Ticats via @SportsOn770

Jim Barker: "I believe you'll probably end up seeing maybe 20 players that were in that league (#AAF). They were trying to call themselves a developmental league. But a lot of their better players, they brought them in to improve the quality of play" #CFL #Ticats via @SportsOn770

Barker is correct, there were 20-30 players brought in who realistically had exhausted all NFL avenues already including PR eligibility. They were never going to get another NFL nibble. Trent Richardson immediately springs to mind. They were there for the sole reason of adding a little name recognition and raise the quality of play. Why they didn't target CFL FA's more actively is beyond me. Probably because they couldn't compete with our pay on our upper echelon players. I still believe that our spike in QB salaries may have been because the AAF was starting to get desperate for QBs and was considering taking a run at a few of our QBs.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: bigbuff33 on April 03, 2019, 02:41:08 PM
I hope the Bombers were scouting the AAF and were able to get some of those players on their neg list yesterday


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: blue_or_die on April 03, 2019, 03:06:28 PM
I hope the Bombers were scouting the AAF and were able to get some of those players on their neg list yesterday

I take it you're no longer scared that the AAF is going to drive the CFL out of business?


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: GCn19 on April 03, 2019, 03:06:55 PM
I hope the Bombers were scouting the AAF and were able to get some of those players on their neg list yesterday

I would wager that a few of them were already on our neg list. I doubt that the players signing in the AAF deterred us from keeping some of the players that signed there on our neg list. Most football people realized this would be a short term blip and the league wouldn't last long. When barely a handful of our record crop of FA's signed over there, I knew this league was not being viewed positively by possible recruits. Many guys who re-upped in the CFL did so for less money, term, and benefits than what the AAF was supposedly offering.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: booch on April 03, 2019, 03:19:13 PM
and what was offerd, and what was delivered had a huuge gap...I feel sorry for some of the players, and coaches who were duped...and I would think that some of the current CFL'ers who were spouting off about this shiny new league and that the CFL better buckle up or else wish they could erase their dumb comments off of their social media platforms


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: Jesse on April 03, 2019, 04:14:34 PM
I would wager that a few of them were already on our neg list. I doubt that the players signing in the AAF deterred us from keeping some of the players that signed there on our neg list. Most football people realized this would be a short term blip and the league wouldn't last long. When barely a handful of our record crop of FA's signed over there, I knew this league was not being viewed positively by possible recruits. Many guys who re-upped in the CFL did so for less money, term, and benefits than what the AAF was supposedly offering.

I don't believe anyone was worried about current CFL'rs leaving for the AAF. The concern was up and coming players attempting the AAF instead of trying out for the CFL, and how that would affect us over time.

Obviously, it didn't play out that way anyways.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: theaardvark on April 03, 2019, 05:47:02 PM
Perhaps but he didn't write this

https://3downnation.com/2019/04/02/aaf-players-who-could-be-on-their-way-back-to-the-cfl/

I realize that, but he keeps publishing other people's writing without giving them credit.  He needs to start putting in URL's of stuff he is posting/stealing. 


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: blue_or_die on April 03, 2019, 06:37:28 PM
I don't believe anyone was worried about current CFL'rs leaving for the AAF. The concern was up and coming players attempting the AAF instead of trying out for the CFL, and how that would affect us over time.

Obviously, it didn't play out that way anyways.

I remember reading many a comment that the sky was falling not just because the CFL wouldn't be the only choice after NFL was exhausted, but because all CFLers under the ~$120k range were going to book it down there for the guaranteed flat, USD rates, benefits, play close to home and chance to shine in front of the NFL.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season
Post by: booch on April 03, 2019, 07:28:58 PM
Most established players, or ones on the cusp of it never gave that league a second thought..why take 2 steps backwards with realistically no chance to make any forward...also many seen the talent in the league down there and didnt want to risk injury,
.
I bet there were more players sitting at home with actual hopes in hell of getting another NFL look that didn't sign there and are waiting it out than there were ones who signed on...players aren't dumb and basically the league was littered with last gasp hope guys, guys who never got a chance and never will, and the odd gem.

Just the fact the league was peppered with guys who failed up here should be indication enough that the U.S public wouldn't give a rats arese about the AAF..and well....they didn't


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 04, 2019, 11:14:30 AM
I remember reading many a comment that the sky was falling not just because the CFL wouldn't be the only choice after NFL was exhausted, but because all CFLers under the ~$120k range were going to book it down there for the guaranteed flat, USD rates, benefits, play close to home and chance to shine in front of the NFL.

There was many a post, when the pay scale was revealed, by members of forums around the CFL suggesting we would lose most of our less than 120k players to the AAF. Obviously, these players aren't that stupid.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Blue In BC on April 04, 2019, 01:05:07 PM
There are still about 60 CFL free agents. Not that there is a lot of top level talent but some quality back ups are still in the mix. I wonder if they will rush to complete negotiations now that the talent pool has gone up and the opportunities have gone down?



Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: booch on April 04, 2019, 01:46:34 PM
https://nypost.com/2019/04/04/aafs-demise-is-leaving-players-homeless/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

this league is sure coning to light as being a real joke and had zero business plan, or any preparation done in advance of starting up..basically seems like they started up with next to no capitol at all to finance anything right out of the shoot and hoped gate revenue may hold them over...especially when news came out that in week 2 they couldn't pay players...I wonder how many business's are now left holding the bag on money owed to them that thy will never see


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: the paw on April 04, 2019, 02:47:07 PM
https://nypost.com/2019/04/04/aafs-demise-is-leaving-players-homeless/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

this league is sure coning to light as being a real joke and had zero business plan, or any preparation done in advance of starting up..basically seems like they started up with next to no capitol at all to finance anything right out of the shoot and hoped gate revenue may hold them over...especially when news came out that in week 2 they couldn't pay players...I wonder how many business's are now left holding the bag on money owed to them that thy will never see

"Homeless" is a bit of hyperbole, I mean it's a 3 month league, its not like they are being evicted from their ancestral homes...

I get that Ebersol exaggerated how much money they had lined up to start, but from all appearances they were burning through cash way faster than anticipated.  I wouldn't expect Ebersol or even Dundon to know what it costs to operate a football team, but I would have thought Polian would have had that knowledge. 


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 04, 2019, 03:58:05 PM
"Homeless" is a bit of hyperbole, I mean it's a 3 month league, its not like they are being evicted from their ancestral homes...

I get that Ebersol exaggerated how much money they had lined up to start, but from all appearances they were burning through cash way faster than anticipated.  I wouldn't expect Ebersol or even Dundon to know what it costs to operate a football team, but I would have thought Polian would have had that knowledge. 

Polian knew exactly what it cost to run a football league/team. What Polian didn't know crap about was how much money the gambling app, that was a huge part of his business plan, would cost to develop. The developers of the app snowed him good. From the beginning Ebersol exclaimed that this was not football league, it was a tech company featuring football as part of it's product. Yet no one gave any thought to getting some tech savvy people as part of the founding


https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2018/12/13/alliance-of-american-football-charlie-ebersol-aaf.html
 


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 04:08:22 PM
actually, truth be told, the AAF did have enough money pledged though 'investors' to operate the entire first season... until one of the primary 'investors' bailed, along with the over $100M to $150M he had pledged to assist in funding the league... so, in comes Dundon, who insisted that there would be no need for any additional fund raising, no more seed rounds, he would cover the whole nut... the downfall of the league was the caveat that came along with his money, he runs the show... once Dundon became 'in charge' he announced that the league would not be seeking or accepting any other funding or investors, there would be no need for such...

to say there was no interest in the league just isn't true, TNT drew almost 500,000 viewers for last Saturday's game on their network, while going up against the NCAA Great 8 games... the NFL channel drew somewhere near 300,000 viewers per game, on a premium channel, also while competing with the NCAA... not to mention all of the uncounted viewers that streamed the games, however many or few they may be... again, I read that the AAF was still the top rated program for both of these channels the for the day on the day they aired...

Attendance was strong again in week 8, considering all of the rumors of the league being on the verge of folding at any minute... attendance dipped in week 4 but had rebounded and increase substantially from that point on... by week 7 they have reached the point to where they almost doubled week 4 attendance... week 8 attendance was only down 4,000 league wide in week 8 as compared to week 7 with their largest fan base, San Antonio, only putting 23K in the seats, the week after topping 30K in week 7...

were the numbers strong? not especially... but they weren't weak either... it was fan attendance or tv ratings that doomed the league, it was having a man in charge that never cared whether or not the league sank or swam... he was after a gambling app... period...

it should be interesting to see how it plays out, because if in fact his motive was to simply acquire the gambling app, it is illegal to do what he did, by becoming majority owner and then ending it as a business in order to acquire the company's assets...

the truth of the matter is, the death of the league is due to Dundon... not the lack of fans, or interest, or ratings... I know that this was a long shot to succeed, I'd even bet that Ebersol and Polian both had their concerns, but it doesn't help when you have the guy at the top running the ship aground as fast as he could...   


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 04, 2019, 04:15:26 PM
actually, truth be told, the AAF did have enough money pledged though 'investors' to operate the entire first season... until one of the primary 'investors' bailed, along with the over $100M to $150M he had pledged to assist in funding the league... so, in comes Dundon, who insisted that there would be no need for any additional fund raising, no more seed rounds, he would cover the whole nut... the downfall of the league was the caveat that came along with his money, he runs the show... once Dundon became 'in charge' he announced that the league would not be seeking or accepting any other funding or investors, there would be no need for such...

to say there was no interest in the league just isn't true, TNT drew almost 500,000 viewers for last Saturday's game on their network, while going up against the NCAA Great 8 games... the NFL channel drew somewhere near 300,000 viewers per game, on a premium channel, also while competing with the NCAA... not to mention all of the uncounted viewers that streamed the games, however many or few they may be... again, I read that the AAF was still the top rated program for both of these channels the for the day on the day they aired...

Attendance was strong again in week 8, considering all of the rumors of the league being on the verge of folding at any minute... attendance dipped in week 4 but had rebounded and increase substantially from that point on... by week 7 they have reached the point to where they almost doubled week 4 attendance... week 8 attendance was only down 4,000 league wide in week 8 as compared to week 7 with their largest fan base, San Antonio, only putting 23K in the seats, the week after topping 30K in week 7...

were the numbers strong? not especially... but they weren't weak either... it was fan attendance or tv ratings that doomed the league, it was having a man in charge that never cared whether or not the league sank or swam... he was after a gambling app... period...

it should be interesting to see how it plays out, because if in fact his motive was to simply acquire the gambling app, it is illegal to do what he did, by becoming majority owner and then ending it as a business in order to acquire the company's assets...

the truth of the matter is, the death of the league is due to Dundon... not the lack of fans, or interest, or ratings... I know that this was a long shot to succeed, I'd even bet that Ebersol and Polian both had their concerns, but it doesn't help when you have the guy at the top running the ship aground as fast as he could...  

The AAF could succeed if they cut their payroll in half, and ditched the benefits. However, they would have a hard time recuiting.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: booch on April 04, 2019, 04:17:24 PM
Truley hard to gauge if it was fan interest with TV numbers..or the proverbial watching a car wreck...just to see how bad it was...I tend to think more of the latter to be honest.

Spring football, well actually any football that isn't NFL or NCAA won't sustain itself in the U.S...I seen it first hand and noting will change that.

If they want to create a league and call it some developmental, or feeder league then they should just shoot for an "amateur" type thing where guys can get a small salary for playing and the chance to hone their skills and hope to get noticed...ala the independent baseball minor leagues...not affiliated with anyone...low overhead costs/salaries but a chance to play...smaller/mid markets in small stadiums...community college/JUCO fields

Only way it will ever sustain itself and last more than a few years without losing gobs of money


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 04, 2019, 04:18:07 PM
actually, truth be told, the AAF did have enough money pledged though 'investors' to operate the entire first season... until one of the primary 'investors' bailed, along with the over $100M to $150M he had pledged to assist in funding the league... so, in comes Dundon, who insisted that there would be no need for any additional fund raising, no more seed rounds, he would cover the whole nut... the downfall of the league was the caveat that came along with his money, he runs the show... once Dundon became 'in charge' he announced that the league would not be seeking or accepting any other funding or investors, there would be no need for such...

to say there was no interest in the league just isn't true, TNT drew almost 500,000 viewers for last Saturday's game on their network, while going up against the NCAA Great 8 games... the NFL channel drew somewhere near 300,000 viewers per game, on a premium channel, also while competing with the NCAA... not to mention all of the uncounted viewers that streamed the games, however many or few they may be... again, I read that the AAF was still the top rated program for both of these channels the for the day on the day they aired...

Attendance was strong again in week 8, considering all of the rumors of the league being on the verge of folding at any minute... attendance dipped in week 4 but had rebounded and increase substantially from that point on... by week 7 they have reached the point to where they almost doubled week 4 attendance... week 8 attendance was only down 4,000 league wide in week 8 as compared to week 7 with their largest fan base, San Antonio, only putting 23K in the seats, the week after topping 30K in week 7...

were the numbers strong? not especially... but they weren't weak either... it was fan attendance or tv ratings that doomed the league, it was having a man in charge that never cared whether or not the league sank or swam... he was after a gambling app... period...

it should be interesting to see how it plays out, because if in fact his motive was to simply acquire the gambling app, it is illegal to do what he did, by becoming majority owner and then ending it as a business in order to acquire the company's assets...

the truth of the matter is, the death of the league is due to Dundon... not the lack of fans, or interest, or ratings... I know that this was a long shot to succeed, I'd even bet that Ebersol and Polian both had their concerns, but it doesn't help when you have the guy at the top running the ship aground as fast as he could...  

As fast as he could? 70 million in losses is a lot of cheddar. Dundon's only mistake was getting involved in the first place at which point the league would have folded in week 2. This league was not financed correctly from day one and should never have launched this year. It was an extremely mismanaged fiasco right from the beginning and the proof of that is their demise before they were even a season old.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 04:24:01 PM
The AAF could succeed if they cut their payroll in half, and ditched the benefits. However, they would have a hard time recuiting.

money wasn't the reason why it failed though, it was in a sense as in those that made pledges to provide funding didn't follow through... and it's not like Dundon didn't know what he was getting in to, he comes in at week 2, he knows exactly what it's going to cost him to fund the league... all personnel are on board, all contracts signed, and knew what the original business plan was... which wasn't to try and leverage someone whom you have no leverage over om week 8, lol... what an idiot...

I'm pretty sure that if one wanted to, you could find somewhere on the world wide web that Ebersol said this wasn't going to be an over night success and that it would probably take 3 or 4 years for the league to even come close to breaking even...

Dundon saw an opportunity and he took it... it was the one place where he did have leverage...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 04, 2019, 04:31:50 PM
money wasn't the reason why it failed though, it was in a sense as in those that made pledges to provide funding didn't follow through... and it's not like Dundon didn't know what he was getting in to, he comes in at week 2, he knows exactly what it's going to cost him to fund the league... all personnel are on board, all contracts signed, and knew what the original business plan was... which wasn't to try and leverage someone whom you have no leverage over om week 8, lol... what an idiot...

I'm pretty sure that if one wanted to, you could find somewhere on the world wide web that Ebersol said this wasn't going to be an over night success and that it would probably take 3 or 4 years for the league to even come close to breaking even...

Dundon saw an opportunity and he took it... it was the one place where he did have leverage...

When investors start dropping like flies it's because promises made were promises broken. Simple as that. When a league loses 10-15 million per week it most definitely IS a money problem. Dundon came and picked the bones of an already dead league. Week 2 they are belly up without Dundon. He floated them for a few extra weeks so that he could get the proceeds of the fire sale. You can't blame Dundon for this league's demise when it couldn't make payroll in week 2 and would have folded then.

Investors are there to make money off their investment. The AAF was not a charity, nor were any of there investors there to lose money for the long term. Ebersol and Polian built a league with no certain financial backing. it was therefore obvious this league would fail.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: theaardvark on April 04, 2019, 04:33:05 PM
If they had secured enough money for at least the first year (I remember seeing somewhere that the business plan was for the first three years fully funded), then there would be no need for "one and Dundon".  

Whether they got snowed for an app that never materialized, or just ran a bad league with horrible product that couldn't draw flies and was hoping Trent Richardson's fans could fund the league, all that matters is it is gone.  Buh bye.  And a lot of investors and vendors and players are left holding the bag and taking the loss.

The XFL has a lot of money on tap behind it, so I can't see financing being an issue.  Whether they shoot themselves in the feet in another way, who knows.  There are plenty of opportunities to muck it up...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 04:36:01 PM
I consider myself a fairly successful business man, I have done quite well for myself, in my opinion... and what I learned along the way was this... in order to build and have a successful business you have to 'solve a problem in an area of need'...  if you do this, you will be successful... how successful? depends on how big a problem you've solved for the party(s) in need...

the AAF came no where near proving that they had indeed solved a problem of any kind for anyone by week 8, let alone exercise the ability to display any type of value as a product to anyone... no one... though there was interest in the product by both fans and the NFL, they still hadn't shown the ability to solve or assist the NFL in developing players... I think anyone with a minimum amount of intelligence would agree that you should first complete a season and then see how many, if any, of their 'developmental players' were actually utilized in an appreciable way by the party they were negotiating with... then you have something to actually talk about, not in week 8...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 04, 2019, 04:37:51 PM
If they had secured enough money for at least the first year (I remember seeing somewhere that the business plan was for the first three years fully funded), then there would be no need for "one and Dundon".  

Whether they got snowed for an app that never materialized, or just ran a bad league with horrible product that couldn't draw flies and was hoping Trent Richardson's fans could fund the league, all that matters is it is gone.  Buh bye.  And a lot of investors and vendors and players are left holding the bag and taking the loss.

The XFL has a lot of money on tap behind it, so I can't see financing being an issue.  Whether they shoot themselves in the feet in another way, who knows.  There are plenty of opportunities to muck it up...

We'll see what McMahon's threshold for loss is, but I can guarantee it won't be the 500 million he says it is. He spouted off the same thing in the first incarnation of the XFL that he had 250 million dollars behind it and bailed when the total reached 70 million. He will likely do the same again.

As for the AAF, and any other fledgling league that may come forth, committing money up to a certain dollar number is not the same thing as having cash in hand. The AAF never had cash in hand and entered the season as a lame duck. I have owned several businesses and many had investors, and I would not have opened a single one of them without a backup to the backup investor because anyone who knows anything about business knows investors back out all the time. You need to plan accordingly. To open a business that you know will have a significant burn rate without extremely modest expenditures is business suicide. Polian and Ebersol are plain old bad businessmen.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 04:44:40 PM
When investors start dropping like flies it's because promises made were promises broken. Simple as that. When a league loses 10-15 million per week it most definitely IS a money problem. Dundon came and picked the bones of an already dead league. Week 2 they are belly up without Dundon. He floated them for a few extra weeks so that he could get the proceeds of the fire sale. You can't blame Dundon for this league's demise when it couldn't make payroll in week 2 and would have folded then.

Investors are there to make money off their investment. The AAF was not a charity, nor were any of there investors there to lose money for the long term. Ebersol and Polian built a league with no certain financial backing. it was therefore obvious this league would fail.

I don't think any of us know the particulars as to why investors bailed, unless you know someone on the 'inside'... i sure don't...  but I'll say this, I would bet cash money that nobody was promised a return on their investment in year 1...

you're free to have whatever opinion you want, or to speculate on cause and effect... I have no clue but will say this, Dundon knew exactly what he was getting in to, the truth was in the books of the company he invested it... there were no promises to be made or broken in 6 weeks that he shouldn't have been keenly aware of... like I said, he saw an opportunity and he took it, much in the same way he made his money in the first place...

as far as the league goes, I'm not surprised it failed... disappointed? yeah... I'm a football fan and I was to the point where I had football for almost the entire year...  not the end of the world, it will just go back to the way it was before Feb... at least until next year, lol...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 04, 2019, 04:45:23 PM
I consider myself a fairly successful business man, I have done quite well for myself, in my opinion... and what I learned along the way was this... in order to build and have a successful business you have to 'solve a problem in an area of need'...  if you do this, you will be successful... how successful? depends on how big a problem you've solved for the party(s) in need...

the AAF came no where near proving that they had indeed solved a problem of any kind for anyone by week 8, let alone exercise the ability to display any type of value as a product to anyone... no one... though there was interest in the product by both fans and the NFL, they still hadn't shown the ability to solve or assist the NFL in developing players... I think anyone with a minimum amount of intelligence would agree that you should first complete a season and then see how many, if any, of their 'developmental players' were actually utilized in an appreciable way by the party they were negotiating with... then you have something to actually talk about, not in week 8...

The league was not folded because of the NFLPA thing. That was just an excuse. Dundon bought the league to strip mine the tech before it got on the open market after week 2. This league was dead long before Dundon came along.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 04, 2019, 04:46:39 PM
I don't think any of us know the particulars as to why investors bailed, unless you know someone on the 'inside'... i sure don't...  but I'll say this, I would bet cash money that nobody was promised a return on their investment in year 1...

you're free to have whatever opinion you want, or to speculate on cause and effect... I have no clue but will say this, Dundon knew exactly what he was getting in to, the truth was in the books of the company he invested it... there were no promises to be made or broken in 6 weeks that he shouldn't have been keenly aware of... like I said, he saw an opportunity and he took it, much in the same way he made his money in the first place...

as far as the league goes, I'm not surprised it failed... disappointed? yeah... I'm a football fan and I was to the point where I had football for almost the entire year...  not the end of the world, it will just go back to the way it was before Feb... at least until next year, lol...

Investors left because the burn rate was too fast and too high. Simple as that. If this league only loses a few million at this point the investors stick around. In the 10s of millions per week they flee.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 04:49:04 PM
We'll see what McMahon's threshold for loss is, but I can guarantee it won't be the 500 million he says it is. He spouted off the same thing in the first incarnation of the XFL that he had 250 million dollars behind it and bailed when the total reached 70 million. He will likely do the same again.

As for the AAF, and any other fledgling league that may come forth, committing money up to a certain dollar number is not the same thing as having cash in hand. The AAF never had cash in hand and entered the season as a lame duck. I have owned several businesses and many had investors, and I would not have opened a single one of them without a backup to the backup investor because anyone who knows anything about business knows investors back out all the time. You need to plan accordingly. To open a business that you know will have a significant burn rate without extremely modest expenditures is business suicide. Polian and Ebersol are plain old bad businessmen.

that's not necessarily true... the business I started had never been done before, something totally unique in it's approach and concept... I didn't have the money to do it on my own, I counted on investors...  as with any good business plan you project milestones and you rely upon your investors to follow through with their commitment if you meet those milestones... simple as that...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 04, 2019, 04:49:49 PM
I don't think any of us know the particulars as to why investors bailed, unless you know someone on the 'inside'... i sure don't...  but I'll say this, I would bet cash money that nobody was promised a return on their investment in year 1...

you're free to have whatever opinion you want, or to speculate on cause and effect... I have no clue but will say this, Dundon knew exactly what he was getting in to, the truth was in the books of the company he invested it... there were no promises to be made or broken in 6 weeks that he shouldn't have been keenly aware of... like I said, he saw an opportunity and he took it, much in the same way he made his money in the first place...

as far as the league goes, I'm not surprised it failed... disappointed? yeah... I'm a football fan and I was to the point where I had football for almost the entire year...  not the end of the world, it will just go back to the way it was before Feb... at least until next year, lol...

Yes Dundon had no interest in saving the league. He wanted first dibs at the fire sale. This doesn't make him responsible for the death of the AAF though. It goes whimpering into the football league graveyard in week 2 if he doesn't float some cash for a few more weeks.
I've bought businesses that were going to close because they had cash flow problems for pennies on the dollar too. It's smart business.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 04:53:23 PM
Yes Dundon had no interest in saving the league. He wanted first dibs at the fire sale. This doesn't make him responsible for the death of the AAF though. It goes whimpering into the football league graveyard in week 2 if he doesn't float some cash for a few more weeks.

I know that this pleases you, and yes, you were right, you predicted since day 1 that it would fail and it did... I'm just trying to add balance to the conversation...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 04, 2019, 04:55:13 PM
I know that this pleases you, and yes, you were right, you predicted since day 1 that it would fail and it did... I'm just trying to add balance to the conversation...

I'm not happy about it at all. I just was not willing to buy into any theory that this league would be successful. I'd love to see them come back next year with a vastly reduced payroll and provide spring time football entertainment that is sustainable over the long term. Personally, when they announced that most of their investors were hedge fund guys, and they gave themselves 3 months to get going, it was an insult to my intelligence whenever I would read Polian, Ebersol, and the media tell us that this league was going to work where others failed. They rush jobbed it to beat McMahon and that was a stupid decision that created a fantastical burn rate.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 04:58:03 PM
I'll add this... I don't think you will find anywhere, from any media source... that what Dundon did, trying to leverage the NFL and the use of their players was a 'smart move' for the business and better yet, I think that if you've read the media surrounding Dundon's comments over the last 2 weeks you will see that it did indeed hasten their demise... Dundon was in the driver's seat, not Ebersol or Polion... live by the sword, die by the sword...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 04, 2019, 05:01:34 PM
I'll add this... I don't think you will find anywhere, from any media source... that what Dundon did, trying to leverage the NFL and the use of their players was a 'smart move' for the business and better yet, I think that if you've read the media surrounding Dundon's comments over the last 2 weeks you will see that it did indeed hasten their demise... Dundon was in the driver's seat, not Ebersol or Polion... live by the sword, die by the sword...

IF you had intentions to keep the league alive...yea it would have to be considered dumb. However, what is now becoming increasingly obvious is that Dundon NEVER had any intention of keeping the league alive if it didn't reduce it's burn rate. Therefore, shutting it down is in fact smart on his part if you come to the realization he wasn't buying a football league, he was buying a tech app.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 04, 2019, 05:04:36 PM
I'll add this... I don't think you will find anywhere, from any media source... that what Dundon did, trying to leverage the NFL and the use of their players was a 'smart move' for the business and better yet, I think that if you've read the media surrounding Dundon's comments over the last 2 weeks you will see that it did indeed hasten their demise... Dundon was in the driver's seat, not Ebersol or Polion... live by the sword, die by the sword...

The question you should really be asking is how did pond scum like Dundon ever get his hands on this league. Answer is simple....desperation. This league was dead otherwise. Mr. Sub Prime vehicle loans simply stripped a dying carcass. That was his only intent. You keep saying Dundon killed the AAF...officially I suppose he did.....unofficially that goose was already cooked before he got there.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 05:06:23 PM
IF you had intentions to keep the league alive...yea it would have to be considered dumb. However, what is now becoming increasingly obvious is that Dundon NEVER had any intention of keeping the league alive if it didn't reduce it's burn rate. Therefore, shutting it down is in fact smart on his part if you come to the realization he wasn't buying a football league, he was buying a tech app.

OR... it was his intentions all along... so, what kind of man does that make him? someone who commits when he never had any intentions of following through with his commitment... as I mentioned before, knowingly derailing a business in which you invest in order to shut it down and acquire it's assets is against the law...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 05:08:54 PM
The question you should really be asking is how did pond scum like Dundon ever get his hands on this league. Answer is simple....desperation. This league was dead otherwise. Mr. Sub Prime vehicle loans simply stripped a dying carcass. That was his only intent. You keep saying Dundon killed the AAF...officially I suppose he did.....unofficially that goose was already cooked before he got there.


LOL!  that, my friend, is absolutely right! and yes, due to previous commitments not being followed through on put them in a place of taking what was available...  so yes, Ebersol and Polion need to own their share of responsibility by deciding Dundon was the man to 'get in bed with'...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 05:09:39 PM
see, we found common ground, lol...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: theaardvark on April 04, 2019, 05:22:48 PM
I consider myself a fairly successful business man, I have done quite well for myself, in my opinion... and what I learned along the way was this... in order to build and have a successful business you have to 'solve a problem in an area of need'...  if you do this, you will be successful... how successful? depends on how big a problem you've solved for the party(s) in need...

the AAF came no where near proving that they had indeed solved a problem of any kind for anyone by week 8, let alone exercise the ability to display any type of value as a product to anyone... no one... though there was interest in the product by both fans and the NFL, they still hadn't shown the ability to solve or assist the NFL in developing players... I think anyone with a minimum amount of intelligence would agree that you should first complete a season and then see how many, if any, of their 'developmental players' were actually utilized in an appreciable way by the party they were negotiating with... then you have something to actually talk about, not in week 8...

The time for making a complete business plan is BEFORE you start.  Getting a new investor in week 2, and letting him make statments in week 7, and bringing in "Johnny Football" well... not a lot of good decisions made there.  


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 05:28:46 PM
The time for making a complete business plan is BEFORE you start.  Getting a new investor in week 2, and letting him make statments in week 7, and bringing in "Johnny Football" well... not a lot of good decisions made there.  

they did have a business plan beforehand... however, when you take yourself out of the position of decision maker, well... the original business plan isn't worth the paper it's wrtitten on  if the NEW person in charge has a different vision...

one of the things that was written about the league, and one of the reason why some felt it had a chance to succeed, was because they had a well mapped out vision and a 5 to 7 year business plan... I can't personally attest to that, that there was a well thought out business plan in place or the contents, just going by what I read...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: theaardvark on April 04, 2019, 05:55:13 PM
If they had a 5 - 7 year business plan, and were forced to accept an angel/devil investor in week 2, I'm kinda questioning the rainbows and lollipops in the original business plan....


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 06:27:54 PM
well if that's the standard... you have to wonder how soon he shut down the Carolina Hurricanes... I mean after all according to Forbes, he bought 61% of the Hurricanes in 2018 for $420M, 13.5% more than the what team's value was at the time and almost 4 times it's annual revenue for a team that has posted substantial losses for 9 of the last 10 years, including 2018... during those last 10 years the Hurricanes have lost over $70M... almost 40% of the team's valuation stems from the league revenue that is shared by all teams... $62M in player cost per year, god knows what operational expense is, with gate revenue of only $24M... talk about a loser...  that light at the end of that tunnel, that's a train my friend...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on April 04, 2019, 06:38:52 PM
If they had a 5 - 7 year business plan, and were forced to accept an angel/devil investor in week 2, I'm kinda questioning the rainbows and lollipops in the original business plan....

Sounds like bad business planning to me.

"I am extremely disappointed to learn Tom Dundon has decided to suspend all football operations of the Alliance of American Football" Polian said in a statement. "When Mr. Dundon took over, it was the belief of my co-founder, Charlie Ebersol, and myself that we would finish the season, pay our creditors, and make the necessary adjustments to move forward in a manner that made economic sense for all."

"The momentum generated by our players, coaches and football staff had us well positioned for future success. Regrettably, we will not have that opportunity."

https://nypost.com/2019/04/02/bill-polian-fires-back-after-tom-dundon-suspends-aaf-operations/


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: theaardvark on April 04, 2019, 07:15:46 PM
well if that's the standard... you have to wonder how soon he shut down the Carolina Hurricanes... I mean after all according to Forbes, he bought 61% of the Hurricanes in 2018 for $420M, 13.5% more than the what team's value was at the time and almost 4 times it's annual revenue for a team that has posted substantial losses for 9 of the last 10 years, including 2018... during those last 10 years the Hurricanes have lost over $70M... almost 40% of the team's valuation stems from the league revenue that is shared by all teams... $62M in player cost per year, god knows what operational expense is, with gate revenue of only $24M... talk about a loser...  that light at the end of that tunnel, that's a train my friend...

And he could get everything back for the team in a heartbeat moving it to Quebec, or Hamilton, or just about anywhere...  not a bad investment, really....

Now, AAF franchise values... <0... at an estimated $70mil cost... wondering if the players / vendors wil launch a class action suit against his $250mil pledge... Manzeil has already come out and said that his fellow players should just move along.. forget they are owed anything, cash their last check and be happy they got to play a bit...  not sure why he would say something like that un-coerced, must be something in it for him somehow...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 08:19:18 PM
And he could get everything back for the team in a heartbeat moving it to Quebec, or Hamilton, or just about anywhere...  not a bad investment, really....

Now, AAF franchise values... <0... at an estimated $70mil cost... wondering if the players / vendors wil launch a class action suit against his $250mil pledge... Manzeil has already come out and said that his fellow players should just move along.. forget they are owed anything, cash their last check and be happy they got to play a bit...  not sure why he would say something like that un-coerced, must be something in it for him somehow...

neither is his $70M investment in the AAF either, if in fact that gambling app is worth the $100M it cost to develop it...  I hope somebody sues his ***, as the chairman of the board he authorized all expenditures on behalf of the league, those individuals/businesses/vendor should get paid...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 08:21:06 PM
on a brighter note, the Kansas City Chiefs have signed CB Keith Reaser from the Orlando Apollos... good luck to him!


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on April 04, 2019, 09:19:49 PM

it should be interesting to see how it plays out, because if in fact his motive was to simply acquire the gambling app, it is illegal to do what he did, by becoming majority owner and then ending it as a business in order to acquire the company's assets...

the truth of the matter is, the death of the league is due to Dundon... not the lack of fans, or interest, or ratings... I know that this was a long shot to succeed, I'd even bet that Ebersol and Polian both had their concerns, but it doesn't help when you have the guy at the top running the ship aground as fast as he could...   

Companies are purchased for their assets and shut down quite often, how do you figure it's illegal? 


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 10:51:54 PM
Companies are purchased for their assets and shut down quite often, how do you figure it's illegal? 
from The Sporting News:

"According to NFL Media, Dundon's intentions with his investment have been put in question, with some believing he only wanted the technology being created around the league's betting app. However, according to Action Network, it would be illegal for Dundon to shut down the league in order to strip the assets."

link if you're interested in reading the entire article... http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/aaf-future-remains-uncertain-amid-confusion-report-says/1hm2wm3lit7wf1n0quetf6e6vl (http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/aaf-future-remains-uncertain-amid-confusion-report-says/1hm2wm3lit7wf1n0quetf6e6vl)

I'm no lawyer so I'm only speculating as to why this may be... a) he wasn't the only investor, therefore he doesn't actually own any asset in it's entirety... b) any and all assets would need to be sold in order to pay creditors before a division of assets could even be considered if there is no 'cash' available to satisfy said debts... c) and lastly, I would have to believe that since he wasn't the sole owner, merely the majority owner, that there are laws of incorporation that protect the investment of other investor for this type of corporate raiding...

again, speculation on my part...



Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on April 04, 2019, 11:33:35 PM
from The Sporting News:

"According to NFL Media, Dundon's intentions with his investment have been put in question, with some believing he only wanted the technology being created around the league's betting app. However, according to Action Network, it would be illegal for Dundon to shut down the league in order to strip the assets."

link if you're interested in reading the entire article... http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/aaf-future-remains-uncertain-amid-confusion-report-says/1hm2wm3lit7wf1n0quetf6e6vl (http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/aaf-future-remains-uncertain-amid-confusion-report-says/1hm2wm3lit7wf1n0quetf6e6vl)

I'm no lawyer so I'm only speculating as to why this may be... a) he wasn't the only investor, therefore he doesn't actually own any asset in it's entirety... b) any and all assets would need to be sold in order to pay creditors before a division of assets could even be considered if there is no 'cash' available to satisfy said debts... c) and lastly, I would have to believe that since he wasn't the sole owner, merely the majority owner, that there are laws of incorporation that protect the investment of other investor for this type of corporate raiding...

again, speculation on my part...



I guess it all depends on the nature of his investment but as the majority shareholder I think he has the right to do whatever he wants.  This does not exclude him from paying debts owing unless the league first declares bankruptcy, then it gets messy. 





Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 04, 2019, 11:34:43 PM
here's another link that outlines the original business plan and objectives as well as original funding, for those that are interested... https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/aaf-suspending-football-operations-darren-rovell (https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/aaf-suspending-football-operations-darren-rovell)


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: theaardvark on April 04, 2019, 11:48:10 PM
If there was an understanding, a contract, that ceded ownership of the App to Dundon in exchange for his investment, then its his, and legal.  Limited companies are designed to limit investors exposure, and bankruptcy usually leaves the investors free from responsibility.  Companies can sell assets at any time, so selling him the rights to the App for his investment would not be unreasonable.   


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on April 04, 2019, 11:49:40 PM
As for the development of the gambling app. I always thought it would be interesting if they placed chips inside players helmets as well as the ball so they could track who was on the field and where in real time.  A multitude of possibilities could flow from the collection of this data and it's presentation. Imagine if you will how much more informed fans could be if they could track and analyze plays as if they were a video game.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: pjrocksmb on April 04, 2019, 11:55:20 PM
I hope this serves as a reminder on how special the CFL is.  Our traditions and great game are a blessing for this great country. 


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 05, 2019, 12:22:13 PM
As for the development of the gambling app. I always thought it would be interesting if they placed chips inside players helmets as well as the ball so they could track who was on the field and where in real time.  A multitude of possibilities could flow from the collection of this data and it's presentation. Imagine if you will how much more informed fans could be if they could track and analyze plays as if they were a video game.

from what I understand you've hit the nail on the head here... players had chips in the equipment, you could track their physical attributes... how fast they were running and such... the balls had chips in them as well, you could track how fast the ball was moving and the velocity at which it was being thrown, hence the reason why you would never see a player 'spike' a ball, it was actually a penalty and fine for doing so... this was all to create the 'in-game' gambling experience, where you could actually bet in real time as to what the next play would be aided by the information gathered...

supposedly, in Europe there is more money bet on soccer during the game than before, for whatever reasons... the US, ie the AAF, was trying to capitalize on this betting habit/pattern and create their own reason for people to bet "in game" and then make a windfall... or so the story goes...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 05, 2019, 12:45:51 PM


LOL!  that, my friend, is absolutely right! and yes, due to previous commitments not being followed through on put them in a place of taking what was available...  so yes, Ebersol and Polion need to own their share of responsibility by deciding Dundon was the man to 'get in bed with'...

He was the last girl in the bar at closing time. It was him or nobody.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 05, 2019, 12:47:26 PM
well if that's the standard... you have to wonder how soon he shut down the Carolina Hurricanes... I mean after all according to Forbes, he bought 61% of the Hurricanes in 2018 for $420M, 13.5% more than the what team's value was at the time and almost 4 times it's annual revenue for a team that has posted substantial losses for 9 of the last 10 years, including 2018... during those last 10 years the Hurricanes have lost over $70M... almost 40% of the team's valuation stems from the league revenue that is shared by all teams... $62M in player cost per year, god knows what operational expense is, with gate revenue of only $24M... talk about a loser...  that light at the end of that tunnel, that's a train my friend...

I have zero doubt he bought Carolina with the intention of moving them eventually.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 05, 2019, 12:50:25 PM
If there was an understanding, a contract, that ceded ownership of the App to Dundon in exchange for his investment, then its his, and legal.  Limited companies are designed to limit investors exposure, and bankruptcy usually leaves the investors free from responsibility.  Companies can sell assets at any time, so selling him the rights to the App for his investment would not be unreasonable.   

I think that some are confusing illegal with immoral. Dundon is a vulcher, but what he did is totally within his right.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 05, 2019, 02:17:34 PM
He was the last girl in the bar at closing time. It was him or nobody.

and you know this.... how?

I have zero doubt he bought Carolina with the intention of moving them eventually.

the only dogs bigger in the NHL are teams that moved as of late, from what I can tell... not a hockey fan...

I think that some are confusing illegal with immoral. Dundon is a vulcher, but what he did is totally within his right.

yet multiple media sources are claiming it may in fact be illegal...   who to believe... such a conundrum...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: theaardvark on April 05, 2019, 02:55:01 PM
I think that some are confusing illegal with immoral. Dundon is a vulcher, but what he did is totally within his right.

In the era of Trump... illegal, immorral, who cares, just do it and buy your way out of it later...   and it is vulture


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 05, 2019, 03:39:42 PM
and you know this.... how?

I know this because they went with Dundon. This guy has a reputation of doing exactly what he did. If they had other options they would have taken them or bought Dundon out and the league would still be going. I'm not in the meeting rooms but it is fairly obvious this was the last resort.

Quote
the only dogs bigger in the NHL are teams that moved as of late, from what I can tell... not a hockey fan...

yet multiple media sources are claiming it may in fact be illegal...   who to believe... such a conundrum...

Definitely not the media that's for sure. You could pass the hat around these guys and the worth of their legal opinions wouldn't buy you a cup of coffee. There is absolutely nothing illegal about what Dundon did. He didn't buy the league and immediately fold it under. He took 70 million in losses first. There is no court in the land that would call 70 million in losses a purchase in bad faith. Dundon knew what it would take to make that perception go away.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 05, 2019, 03:45:32 PM
In the era of Trump... illegal, immorral, who cares, just do it and buy your way out of it later...   and it is vulture

Yes Vulture. Thank you.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: swansong on April 05, 2019, 04:15:04 PM
In the era of Trump... illegal, immorral, who cares, just do it and buy your way out of it later...   and it is vulture

Uh huh, because, you know, politicians never did illegal or immoral things prior to Trump. Kennedy never cheated on his wife...Watergate never happened...Reagan never ran drugs to fund the Contras...Clinton never dipped his cigar...Obama never murdered civilians during drone strikes...Bush never murdered 100s of 1000s of people through sanctions and illegal wars of conquest. Nope. It all started with Trump.

To be clear I am no fan of Trump but the disconnect with people is bizarre.

And it's immoral.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Blue In BC on April 05, 2019, 05:49:17 PM
Aside from neg list changes there has been very little news about players finding new opportunities. I know it's early days but I'm curious to see who or how many end up where.

Too bad we won't even find out who got added or deleted from our neg list.

EDIT: Found this news so far.

Former AAF players to sign with an NFL team so far:
* CB Keith Reaser: Chiefs
* WR Rashad Ross: Panthers
* QB Garrett Gilbert: Browns
* DB Duke Thomas: Vikings
* DB DeVante Bausby: Broncos


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 06, 2019, 01:02:10 AM
I think the big difference between what is being suggested in this scenario and what typically happens in other similar deals is, when other businesses then subsequently closes or broken up and sold off is that all parties share in the revenue from the sale off... what I feel is being suggested is that Dundon thinks that since he was primarily shareholder that he does have the power to shut it down, which he does, but he can't cherry pick what assets he wants for himself and walk away from the rest... now if he wanted to close the doors forever, sell off everything, pay off all creditors, and then split whatever is left by percentage of ownership... that would be fine as well as legal...

I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I'm no expert, but... this isn't twitter post or other social media saying this and if The Sporting News, and other similar credible sources, are saying that it might be illegal, I'm going to believe that they may be correct... but that's just me, but at the end of the day, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it no matter how it shakes out...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 06, 2019, 01:03:03 AM
Aside from neg list changes there has been very little news about players finding new opportunities. I know it's early days but I'm curious to see who or how many end up where.

Too bad we won't even find out who got added or deleted from our neg list.

EDIT: Found this news so far.

Former AAF players to sign with an NFL team so far:
* CB Keith Reaser: Chiefs
* WR Rashad Ross: Panthers
* QB Garrett Gilbert: Browns
* DB Duke Thomas: Vikings
* DB DeVante Bausby: Broncos

thanks for the update!  still not a fan of the secretive negotiation list, lol...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Blue In BC on April 06, 2019, 06:07:28 PM
thanks for the update!  still not a fan of the secretive negotiation list, lol...

There have been about a dozen AAF players now signed by NFL teams. Google AAF and there is a new list as signings are made.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiVqbKnq7zhAhXOsJ4KHV88BbgQ0PADMAF6BAgCEAk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nfl.com%2Fnews%2Fstory%2F0ap3000001025407%2Farticle%2Fchiefs-sign-cornerback-keith-reaser-of-aafs-apollos&usg=AOvVaw0IcJmcuj6PDzS4TQmCwHHu


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: theaardvark on April 06, 2019, 06:30:01 PM
Uh huh, because, you know, politicians never did illegal or immoral things prior to Trump. Kennedy never cheated on his wife...Watergate never happened...Reagan never ran drugs to fund the Contras...Clinton never dipped his cigar...Obama never murdered civilians during drone strikes...Bush never murdered 100s of 1000s of people through sanctions and illegal wars of conquest. Nope. It all started with Trump.

To be clear I am no fan of Trump but the disconnect with people is bizarre.

And it's immoral.

The key is Trump does it in public and unapologetically, with malice of forethought and disregard for people he doesn't like or those that can't further his agenda.  He has legitimized the terms "alternate facts" and "fake news".  Yes, politicians do bad things as well as good, but few do as bad things as often without remorse and claim they are vindicated in doing them...

and yes, immoral..


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: ModAdmin on April 07, 2019, 03:40:00 AM
Please keep the discussion out of the political realm, as per the rules here.  Thanks.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: buckzumhoff on April 07, 2019, 12:10:33 PM
Who ever cashed out early in that league shouldn't be in business. They had a plan they knew they weren't going to make money the first year. They let alot of good players down. The league was also good for the CFL. Kept players playing .the NFL should have gotten involved and put some cash in just to cover losses.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Blue In BC on April 07, 2019, 01:12:31 PM
Who ever cashed out early in that league shouldn't be in business. They had a plan they knew they weren't going to make money the first year. They let alot of good players down. The league was also good for the CFL. Kept players playing .the NFL should have gotten involved and put some cash in just to cover losses.

Why should the NFL be involved in the losses created by other billionaires? Those individuals should pay all existing liabilities owned to players ( injuries ) or suppliers. That's the way things are supposed to work.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: blue_gold_84 on April 07, 2019, 01:38:23 PM
Why should the NFL be involved in the losses created by other billionaires?

No kidding. This isn't the NFL's problem and it doesn't owe jack all to the AAF.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Cheesebuster on April 07, 2019, 02:11:03 PM
Please keep the discussion out of the political realm, as per the rules here.  Thanks.
Just because you say that I'm going to defiantly recommend everyone read Football for a Buck by Jeff Pearlman. It's about the rise and fall of the USFL and Trumps involvement in that. It's a great read.

What a rebel I am.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 07, 2019, 03:31:02 PM
If I was given the choice, I would rather the NFL had folded instead of the AAF... and as much as I know it will never happen, I am rooting for the XFL to succeed... pipe dream I know... but as I look across the landscape of football it almost makes me sick as it relates to the 'haves' and the 'have nots'... and for all that the NFL is I find it hard at times to allow myself to want to enjoy it... and what I mean by that is, the numbers they generate and spend are just stupid...

Much like the CFL there are 2 distinct stratospheres of economic groups that make up the players as a whole... I guess it's bound to happen, certain positions, especially skill positions, are harder to fill than others and the top players at their respective positions, whether its a skill position or not, will get their payday... which is fine, to an extent, but much like the stock market, it's time for a 'market correction' in professional sports as whole, in my opinion...

As a numbers person, I tend to do a lot of research about things I'm interested in and when we as a group started talking about the rise and demise of the AAF I really started looking hard at the numbers... when you look at the NFL numbers and start to really think about them it only confirms to me why I don't support the NFL monetarily... especially when you think about professional leagues like the CFL, or upstarts like the AAF or XFL, who live day to day... where 1,000 people in the stands actually makes a difference in their bottom line...

With the money that this league generates it's really hard for to even consider paying for a ticket to watch a game in person... the average price of a ticket for a LA Chargers game, which is currently the most expensive ticket on average, is $199 US... the least expensive ticket, the Browns, seems like a more reasonable  ticket, only $66 US on average... one could say that even at the high end, $199 per seat, that this isn't really all that bad, until you look at what a 'good' seat actually cost vs the cheaper tickets that puts you so far away from actually being able to see whats going on, lol... regardless, take a family of 4 to a Chargers game and you're looking at $1,000 dollars, easily, if you're buying the median ticket price, add in parking, concessions, etc... a grand to go to one game? they'll tell you that it's justified due to the expense associated with running a professional sports team, but think about this...

in 2019, each team's portion of the their annual TV revenue will be $255,000,000 US!  PER TEAM!

the salary cap for 2019 will be $188,000,000 per team...

Sponsorships, media, partnerships, ticket and concession sales are some of the most important revenue streams for the NFL. In 2015, the revenue of all 32 NFL teams added up to $12,610,000,000... that's 12 with a B, billion, lol... the Dallas Cowboys generated revenue of over $900,000,000 last year...

the Bills are the least valuable franchise yet it would set you back over $1B to buy...

player salaries are way past stupid, at least for the 'haves', while the bottom tier guys will likely be broke less than 1 or 2 years out of the league... Tom Brady has made over $250M in salary alone during his playing career to date, not to mention the money and freebies he collects from endorsement deals...

yet teams still cry poverty at times and threaten to leave a city if they don't build them a new stadium, holding both the city and the fans hostage while leaving the tax payers holding the bill...

while the upper tier of players will be fine, at least financially, the lower tier will struggle to afford to pay on going medical cost in years to come due to game related wear and tear on their bodies...

I know it's hard to feel sorry for these players, but again, the 'haves' will be alright and the 'have not's' will be in worse shape, financially and quality of life when it's all said and done... the NFL could, and should, do more for long term programs for players as a whole given the dollars they burn through...

but just think of what the CFL, or the AAF or XFL, as a league could do for the players and fans if they could score just the amount of money that 1 NFL receives for their portion of TV revenue alone... makes you just shake your head... think about the difference in annual salary cap alone, NFL vs CFL, $188M vs approximately $4M US? it all just makes you almost sick to your stomach, lol...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: TecnoGenius on April 07, 2019, 04:17:58 PM
But maybe the NFL and its huge money is necessary for the game of football as a whole.  It represents the "American Dream" to kids and college players.  Every player, Canadian or American, dreams of making it in the NFL and getting their huge payday.  That's not a bad thing.  Hopes, dreams and something to strive for.

If you take away the possibility of millions in the NFL, and all you are left with is $75k in the AAF or, say $150k for a good non-qb player in the CFL, a ton of kids (and families) will be like "meh" and invest their time and talent in something else.

I don't like the NFL much, but I see its purpose, and if freely negotiating people are arriving at ludicrous $$ contracts, that's their business and more power to them.  The only problem is if the pie starts to shrink and revenue & caps go down.  That could throw the whole thing in disarray.  But that's "ifs and buts" for the future...

As for $1k for a family to go to the NFL... that's what provides the niche for a AAF/XFL/whatever to succeed.  Sure, it sucks if you're a huge Cowboys fan but are poor.  But that's life.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Blue In BC on April 07, 2019, 04:19:25 PM
Nearly all pro sports are paying excessive amounts in salaries to players at the top end. Of course it's a supply / demand issue but it's all about making money. Ultimately the fans pay for these salaries via ticket prices or burden of sponsorship as consumers.

While I don't know exactly what Tom Brady earns there are some reports he's earned $250M during his career. Would he have played any less well for 1/2 that amount as an example?

There seem to be many NFL players earning in excess of $1M per game. This only happens by raising the SMS and just increasing revenues to match. What were Super Bowl add costs:? Something like $5M for 30 seconds?

It's nuts. It won't happen but would the game be substantially changed if at all if the NFL SMS was dropped by half?


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: dd on April 08, 2019, 03:54:37 AM
You?re right it won?t happen. The SMS is related to revenues by the league and the players union has fought tooth and nail to get the salaries they?re getting. If the league wasn?t making soooo much money they could roll back the cap but it ain?t going to happen. And if it did, the play wouldn?t drop off at all as where else are the players going to go to get that type of money,  nowhere legally !!


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: GCn19 on April 08, 2019, 11:17:59 AM
I think the big difference between what is being suggested in this scenario and what typically happens in other similar deals is, when other businesses then subsequently closes or broken up and sold off is that all parties share in the revenue from the sale off... what I feel is being suggested is that Dundon thinks that since he was primarily shareholder that he does have the power to shut it down, which he does, but he can't cherry pick what assets he wants for himself and walk away from the rest... now if he wanted to close the doors forever, sell off everything, pay off all creditors, and then split whatever is left by percentage of ownership... that would be fine as well as legal...

I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I'm no expert, but... this isn't twitter post or other social media saying this and if The Sporting News, and other similar credible sources, are saying that it might be illegal, I'm going to believe that they may be correct... but that's just me, but at the end of the day, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it no matter how it shakes out...

If it was a bankruptcy sale you would be right. However, it's not, and Dundon is not asking for chapter 11 protection. Therefore, as chairperson of the league he can decide the division of assets so long as he is only taking his proportional share of the assets based on his ownership stake. I am sure that is why a certain level of burn rate was attained prior to the suspension of the league. Slimy, you bet...but there is nothing illegal about it. The AAF still exists, it's just not a football league anymore.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 13, 2019, 12:00:26 AM
I just checked this and was more than a bit surprised... as of today the NFL has either signed or will work out 45 players from the AAF with more expected to be signed after this month's draft... that's a lot!


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Blue In BC on April 13, 2019, 01:38:58 AM
I just checked this and was more than a bit surprised... as of today the NFL has either signed or will work out 45 players from the AAF with more expected to be signed after this month's draft... that's a lot!

Nothing to get excited about. Teams work out players all the time but it doesn't mean they get signed. If they do get signed it doesn't mean they make a given roster.

Many of the players that have signed have used up their PR time so they need to make an active roster. Odds are long in some cases. After the NFL draft there will be hundreds of other players being looked at that will push the " now " available AAF players down some of the current interest of NFL teams.

Reaser ( sp ) was re-signed early by the Chiefs but he was drafted in 2012 or 2013. He was with the Chiefs last season but released in the fall of 2018.

Will he make their roster over a 2019 draft choice? Time will tell but just an example of how hard it might be to reinsert himself back onto an NFL roster.

Don't know much about the Chief or whether they lost many DB's in free agency, or gained many. That might be a telling sign of his chances.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 13, 2019, 06:20:12 AM
Nothing to get excited about. Teams work out players all the time but it doesn't mean they get signed. If they do get signed it doesn't mean they make a given roster.

Many of the players that have signed have used up their PR time so they need to make an active roster. Odds are long in some cases. After the NFL draft there will be hundreds of other players being looked at that will push the " now " available AAF players down some of the current interest of NFL teams.

Reaser ( sp ) was re-signed early by the Chiefs but he was drafted in 2012 or 2013. He was with the Chiefs last season but released in the fall of 2018.

Will he make their roster over a 2019 draft choice? Time will tell but just an example of how hard it might be to reinsert himself back onto an NFL roster.

Don't know much about the Chief or whether they lost many DB's in free agency, or gained many. That might be a telling sign of his chances.

whether he makes a roster or not he is going to be paid $100,000... not to shabby..


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Blue In BC on April 13, 2019, 01:10:55 PM
whether he makes a roster or not he is going to be paid $100,000... not to shabby..

How so if he can't be put on the PR? Did he get a signing bonus or guaranteed money?


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Blue In BC on April 13, 2019, 01:15:59 PM
Reports say players aren't allowed to sign in the CFL at the moment. How can this be true? The league is no longer in existence and no longer paying players after an abrupt early finish.

That should make all contracts null and void. In what world can you essentially go out of business, fire everyone and prevent them seeking new employment?

Using Ciante Evans as an example: he hasn't come to any agreement with an NFL team at this point as far as I know but he can't return to the CFL?

I also wasn't under the impression the CFL had any reciprocal agreements in place. Even if they did that's gone out the window.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 13, 2019, 01:26:28 PM
How so if he can't be put on the PR? Did he get a signing bonus or guaranteed money?

both, $50,000 each...

Reports say players aren't allowed to sign in the CFL at the moment. How can this be true? The league is no longer in existence and no longer paying players after an abrupt early finish.

That should make all contracts null and void. In what world can you essentially go out of business, fire everyone and prevent them seeking new employment?

Using Ciante Evans as an example: he hasn't come to any agreement with an NFL team at this point as far as I know but he can't return to the CFL?

I also wasn't under the impression the CFL had any reciprocal agreements in place. Even if they did that's gone out the window.

what I read was... the player contracts have value as they can be sold, so, they are considered a company asset and will be considered such in the event of any bankruptcy proceedings... does not apply to the NFL because of 'NFL out' included in contract


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Blue In BC on April 13, 2019, 01:37:23 PM
both, $50,000 each...

what I read was... the player contracts have value as they can be sold, so, they are considered a company asset and will be considered such in the event of any bankruptcy proceedings... does not apply to the NFL because of 'NFL out' included in contract

I don't see how an " employee " can be held hostage as an asset. Players had contracts which were broken the moment they didn't get a game paycheck. They were an trade asset when the league was functioning.

While this may be the argument by the AAF I see there are already lawsuits by former office staff. Who do they think they are going to " sell " those contracts to? The NFL would have been the biggest market for players.

It seems the league isn't interested in full filling the balance of their contracts with anyone but want to restrict players.

Is there an example of any USA company that closed where employees were sold as an asset?

Regarding Reaser. Ok, that's interesting and good for him. He may have a chance to make the Chiefs roster but we'll wait and see. $100K in the NFL is practically petty cash. A few players have signed multi year deals so they may have more guarantees.

Others just getting workout or TC invites fall down the scale so to speak.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: 66 Chevelle on April 13, 2019, 01:43:26 PM
the article didn't say who made the determination or the restriction so I'm not sure how that came about, if it was the league or their creditors... but no, I've never seen or heard of such before...


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Blue In BC on April 13, 2019, 02:05:03 PM
the article didn't say who made the determination or the restriction so I'm not sure how that came about, if it was the league or their creditors... but no, I've never seen or heard of such before...

Yeah it's strange alright. Even NDA's or Non Compete clauses don't always hold up when employees leave companies.

I assume there will be some CFL interest in players and vice versa. So I'm not sure how soon this will come to a head.

I mentioned Ciante Evans as the most probable player that would want to return to the CFL. OTOH he was a late addition to an AAF team and may have had a different kind of contract. I wonder how the CFL views this since they didn't have any agreements with the AAF.

For players that don't have any interest in the CFL then no harm no foul I suppose.

EDIT: We signed Boynton recently. He was in the AAF at one point but I don't know whether he was still in the league at the end? He still shows on the Memphis Express roster for whatever that's worth.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: DM83 on April 14, 2019, 05:28:18 AM
Does Mike Riley know anything about hockey?  Like coaching player vs opposition accountability!


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Fire101 on April 17, 2019, 09:08:20 PM
CFL doesn't have to worry about signing AAF players anymore, because AAF just filed for bankruptcy.


https://www.tsn.ca/aaf-out-of-business-files-for-bankruptcy-1.1292162

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/17/alliance-american-football-files-bankruptcy


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: ichabod_crane on May 06, 2019, 11:30:05 PM
CFL doesn't have to worry about signing AAF players anymore, because AAF just filed for bankruptcy.


https://www.tsn.ca/aaf-out-of-business-files-for-bankruptcy-1.1292162

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/17/alliance-american-football-files-bankruptcy


Not sure if anyone noticed this in the SI article at the end:

"While the AAF reportedly won?t allow its former players to play in the Canadian Football League, the league authorized its players to sign with NFL teams."

Not sure how they could ever enforce this as that could prevent some players from earning a living. A totally ridiculous   claim I think. Does anyone know of any AAF players being signed in the CFL yet though? I know almost all CFL teams juggled their negotiation lists immediately after the AAF folded.


Title: Re: AAF - May Discontinue Remainder of Season [UPDATE - Ceases Operations]
Post by: Jesse on May 07, 2019, 01:42:49 AM
Not sure if anyone noticed this in the SI article at the end:

"While the AAF reportedly won?t allow its former players to play in the Canadian Football League, the league authorized its players to sign with NFL teams."

Not sure how they could ever enforce this as that could prevent some players from earning a living. A totally ridiculous   claim I think. Does anyone know of any AAF players being signed in the CFL yet though? I know almost all CFL teams juggled their negotiation lists immediately after the AAF folded.

This is over, they're allowed now. We had some former AAF guys at our mini camp.