Blue Bombers Forum

The Extra Point => Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum => Topic started by: ModAdmin on February 19, 2019, 09:05:09 PM



Title: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: ModAdmin on February 19, 2019, 09:05:09 PM
A good summary of where the Blue Bombers stand now at the receiver position:

A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait

They took a hefty swing at some of the Canadian Football League?s marquee free agent receivers before coming up short in the bidding wars.

And while the Winnipeg Blue Bombers may kick the tires on some of the pass catchers still on the market - or keep some dollars aside for those who might come free from the NFL later into the summer - the reality is the club is closer now to implementing its Plan B when it comes to revamping their receiving corps.

A lot can change with how the roster looks from now until the first day of training camp in May. As it stands, the Bombers will likely again use two Canadians in their receiving corps, as they did last season with Drew Wolitarsky and Nic Demski.

Here's a closer look at the Bombers current receiver depth and who might comprise their Plan B from their prospect pool. (Note: Weston Dressler remains an unsigned free agent).

THE RETURNEES - STARTERS


*Indicates Canadian

WR Darvin Adams


Has led the Bombers in receiving in back-to-back seasons, pulling in 137 passes for 2,148 yards and 17 TDs. West Division All-Star in both 2017 and 2018 and his 10 receiving TDs last season ranked tied for second in the CFL.

WR/SB Drew Wolitarsky*


Enjoyed a break-out 2018 campaign with 45 catches for 650 yards and five TDs. His 650 receiving yards ranked second on the Bombers and third among Canadian receivers in the league (Brad Sinopoli of Ottawa finished with 1,376 yards, Hamilton?s Mike Jones had 841).

SB Nic Demski*


Like Wolitarsky, Demski enjoyed a banner season working in Paul LaPolice?s offence, thriving in a multi-dimensional role that ultimately saw him finish third on the club in both receiving and rushing yardage. Demski finished with 59 receptions for 554 yards and three TDs, while adding 248 yards on 34 catches and another score.

SB Kenbrell Thompkins


The ex-NFLer made a solid impression upon first being inserted into the lineup in late July, pulling in 15 passes for 213 yards in his first four games as a Bomber. But in his last eight games he had just 14 receptions for 208 yards. He didn?t catch a pass in the West Semi-Final and was not in the lineup for the West Final.

THE RETURNEES - RESERVES

Corey Washington


The size - 6-4/208 - and skill are all there for Washington, who has had looks from eight different NFL teams. Flashed his big-play ability in the regular season finale, pulling in an 80-yard TD reception from Chris Streveler that was the Bombers longest offensive play of the season.

Rashaun Simonise*


The Bombers first pick in the 2018 draft - 12th overall - is another prospect that oozes potential. Still just 23, Simonise dressed for all 18 games, seeing spot duty. He will continue to fight for snaps among a Canadian crew that includes Wolitarsky, Demski and Daniel Petermann.

Daniel Petermann*

The club is still convinced they got a steal when Petermann fell to them in the third round of last year?s draft. There's a lot to like with Petermann, who has outstanding hands and route-running skills and also brings a gritty toughness.

Charles Nelson

Dressed for one game last year - the regular season finale - and was impressive with three catches for 35 yards, while also returning nine kicks that day. Smallish at 5-8, 170, but could bring a speed/playmaking dynamic to the receiving corps.

Kenny Lawler

A seventh-round draft pick of the Seattle Seahawks in 2016, Lawler got a long look from the B.C. Lions in camp last year before being released. Was added to the Bombers practice roster in late October. Good speed and size at 6-2, 180.

NEW FACES

Garrett Johnson

Johnson will come to the Bombers after a stint with the Chicago Bears last year. One of the greatest receivers in the history of the University of Kentucky, where he finished his college career ranked fourth in receiving yards and fifth in receptions.

Dom Williams

Another intriguing prospect for the Bombers. Has had NFL looks from Detroit, Philadelphia and San Diego after finishing his college career at Washington State with 192 catches for 2,889 yards and 30 TDs. Those totals ranked second in school history.

Evan Clark

Caught the eyes of Bomber scouts at last year?s Kansas City Chiefs rookie camp. Played his college ball with Division III St. John's Johnnies, one of the most successful programs in NCAA history.

Tim Wilson


Just signed by the Bombers on Tuesday, Wilson potentially provides an interesting dimension along the lines of a Charles Nelson. He's a receiver/kick returner type who also ran some track at East Stroudsburg University. Got a look last year from the Philadelphia Eagles.

https://www.bluebombers.com/2019/02/19/look-receiving-corps/


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on February 19, 2019, 09:07:15 PM
Good write up. Our import receiving list is scary bad:

Darvin Adams
Kenbrell Thompkins
Cory Washington
Charles Nelson
Kenny Lawler
Garrett Johnson
Dom Williams
Evan Clark
Tim Wilson

Better hope Darvin doesn't go down ever.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Sully77 on February 19, 2019, 09:34:09 PM
How do you know they are scary bad?? We have no idea if a couple of these new imports impress and end up being great players.

You can't just keep signing recycled players until you say you have a great set of guys.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In Edmonton on February 19, 2019, 09:43:17 PM
There are a lot of guys in this league who are household names in their own households...until they become stars in the CFL. Perhaps one of these new guys is one of those guys.

My biggest concern is a lack of any sort of veteran presence in this group. Even Dressler in decline would provide some leadership about how things work in the CFL. This crew has none of that. For a team that is supposedly built to win now, that concerns me.

I'm also concerned that there seems to be a thinking along the lines of "Bighill fell to us late in the offseason, so let's see if that happens again." That's not exactly a good plan.

I know that Andrew Harris is the focal point of the offence, and that's just fine with me. However, if there is no significant receiving threat to take some of the focus away from Harris, a lot of pressure will be placed on him, and defenses won't have to plan for a multi-pronged attack. We would also grind to a complete halt if Harris goes down.

I really hope that I'm wrong about this receiving group, but I suspect that I'm not. Last year without Dressler (that veteran leader on the field), the entire offence struggled. We still need that.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: pjb01 on February 20, 2019, 12:07:06 AM
An innocent question from a Rider fan. What do you think will happen to Dressler?


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: dd on February 20, 2019, 12:49:33 AM
I think we re morons if we don?t sign him. We have very little/no veteran presence in our receiving corps


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 20, 2019, 01:19:08 AM
Into honk we re morons if we don?t sign him. We have very little/no veteran presence in our receiving corps

My take on the signing delay is Dressler has no intention of retiring and they are miles apart on agreeing to terms, so he is actively shopping around for a better deal.  It would be too bad if he ended his career elsewhere but the longer this goes on I think the more likely that possibility becomes.  I'd be surprised if his final destination was anywhere other than Wpg. or Regina as he probably wants to stay relatively close to his home-base and family to finish out his career.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on February 20, 2019, 01:30:00 AM
An innocent question from a Rider fan. What do you think will happen to Dressler?

Dressler h?s likely been asked to take a deep paycut and is hoping someone offers him a better deal. Chances are he retires imo.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Nic16 on February 20, 2019, 02:01:47 AM
Dressler h?s likely been asked to take a deep paycut and is hoping someone offers him a better deal. Chances are he retires imo.

Agreed.

My guess is he has a number in his head that he wants, and anything much less than that won?t be worth putting his body thru...and currently nobody is budging in either direction.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Mike on February 20, 2019, 03:00:00 AM
Our American receivers are disgustingly bad.

We need two things:
- one of Mitchell, Spencer, Duke, Zylstra or Matthews
- a rookie to perform well enough to upgrade on our third USWR spot.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Leroy on February 20, 2019, 03:28:10 AM
Agreed.

I am hoping Dom Williams is the rookie.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: 123James321 on February 20, 2019, 04:00:14 AM
Is matthews still unsigned? Id throw a pile of money at him if I was Walters...


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: The Zipp on February 20, 2019, 04:08:33 AM
Is matthews still unsigned? Id throw a pile of money at him if I was Walters...

Personally I think he is overrated in many people's minds.  He wouldn't even be the best receiver on the bombers - darvin is better...

Duke Williams is the best of that lot but he is going to get a legit shot at training camp and nfl preseason.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: DM83 on February 20, 2019, 04:12:17 AM
Matthews was. So good.

But then.....


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: kkc60 on February 20, 2019, 04:31:56 AM
Personally I think he is overrated in many people's minds.  He wouldn't even be the best receiver on the bombers - darvin is better...

Duke Williams is the best of that lot but he is going to get a legit shot at training camp and nfl preseason.
It's not a matter of being better than Darvin, its whether he's better than the unknowns or 2nd year guys


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: dd on February 20, 2019, 04:41:26 AM
Exactly. How is it, all the other teams can find ?unknown? talent in receivers and we can?t. Bc found burnham, Calgary Rogers, Edmonton Walker, Hamilton banks, heck even Montreal found this Lewis dude!!! ...and we ve found...... ahhhhh nobody since like milt stegal days!!! C mon man, this is downright ridiculous!!!


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: ModAdmin on February 20, 2019, 05:29:37 AM
Exactly. How is it, all the other teams can find ?unknown? talent in receivers and we can?t. Bc found burnham, Calgary Rogers, Edmonton Walker, Hamilton banks, heck even Montreal found this Lewis dude!!! ...and we ve found...... ahhhhh nobody since like milt stegal days!!! C mon man, this is downright ridiculous!!!

Ahhhhhh

Darwin Adams
Chris Matthews
Terrence Edwards
Clarence Denmark

To name a few.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 20, 2019, 06:16:40 AM
Our American receivers are disgustingly bad.

We need two things:
- one of Mitchell, Spencer, Duke, Zylstra or Matthews
- a rookie to perform well enough to upgrade on our third USWR spot.

If the last few years are any indication, I wouldn't hold my breath on that. The team needs a proven #1 receiver - sooner than later.

Ahhhhhh

Darwin Adams
Chris Matthews
Terrence Edwards
Clarence Denmark

To name a few.

Adams was an Argonauts' find. He signed here as a FA in 2015.
Edwards was also an Argonauts' find. He signed here as a FA in 2007.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Pigskin on February 20, 2019, 06:23:44 AM
As a unit our Canadian receivers are right up at the top of the CFL. On the other hand our America talent is lacking.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 20, 2019, 08:10:37 AM
Ahhhhhh

Chris Matthews
Clarence Denmark

To name a few.

I think Matthews was the only Rogers/Zylstra-level find in the last 10 years?!!  Denmark was up there, but not star #1 GC-winning Rogers-style great.

I think you have to go back to Stegall to find another true CFL-top receiver find by WPG scouts, right?  That's a horrible batting average.  However, we are getting waaay better at scouting D talent.  Maybe the current scouts should handle D and we hire a new guy to scout O.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on February 20, 2019, 11:53:26 AM
I think Matthews was the only Rogers/Zylstra-level find in the last 10 years?!!  Denmark was up there, but not star #1 GC-winning Rogers-style great.

I think you have to go back to Stegall to find another true CFL-top receiver find by WPG scouts, right?  That's a horrible batting average.  However, we are getting waaay better at scouting D talent.  Maybe the current scouts should handle D and we hire a new guy to scout O.


Last year we didn't really get much benefit from Rigmaiden's scouting because it generally takes scouts a year to build up their prospect lists when they change teams. We may see an improvement in some areas of our scouting with Rigmaiden having a full year on the job now.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Leroy on February 20, 2019, 12:14:24 PM
His name is Darvin Adams.

Darwin Adams?


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on February 20, 2019, 01:22:42 PM
How do you know they are scary bad?? We have no idea if a couple of these new imports impress and end up being great players.

You can't just keep signing recycled players until you say you have a great set of guys.

We do not. Maybe this is the year we finally find some great players at the position. However, this was the import list of 2018:

Darvin Adams
Weston Dressler
Adarius Bowman
Ryan Lankford
Chris Givens
Myles White
A.J Coney
Donteea Dye
Dominique Reed
Tony Stevens
Corey Washington

This was the import list of 2017:

Darvin Adams
Weston Dressler
Clarence Denmark
Kenny Stafford
TJ Thorpe
Gerrard Sheppard
Kieren Duncan
Quinshad Davis
TJ Lowder
Larry Raper

On paper, our import receivers would be among the weakest in the league. Outside of Darvin, the 2019 list has little CFL experience. Kenbrell Thompkins was probably our most impactful find last year and he had 421 receiving yards and 1 TD. "A lot of potential" could easily describe the lists of the last three years. Call a spade a spade, this is one area of the football club where we struggle, and have for the past several years. Somehow it's gotten worse this year. At least so far.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: kkc60 on February 20, 2019, 01:30:05 PM
Ahhhhhh

Darwin Adams
Chris Matthews
Terrence Edwards
Clarence Denmark

To name a few.
That's four in the past, what, 10 years? Edmonton has found Walker, Mitchell, William's and Zylstra in half that


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_or_die on February 20, 2019, 01:31:40 PM
That's four in the past, what, 10 years? Edmonton has found Walker, Mitchell, William's and Zylstra in half that

Except it's not four. Adams was an Argo find and Edwards was an Alouette find.

Matthews and Denmark were Joe Mack finds.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: booch on February 20, 2019, 01:38:29 PM
In my opinion part of the problem with us not finding/having a game breaking receiver is because we don't give a guy a chance, or use anybody to be that type of receiver..Darvin gets a few deep shots here and there and the odd time we send a guy downfield on a post or fade, but rarely do we do anything to have guys layered in depth, moving in full stride or sent to open spaces isolating one on one.

Pretty much everything is within the hashes to a guy who is not moving, or settling down underneath coverage, or a swing or short out to a guy with pretty much all the defenders in front of him and they have to beat defenders after the catch to gain more than 5-6 yards, so it's no wonder since Lapo came back to be the O.C that we haven't had  "that" guy

Also even though these guys are pro's it get's deflating knowing that you're not gonna be allowed to cut loose, or that the offence is going to be pedestrian and focus around 2-3 guys, so your intensity drops off and you almost just go through the motions. You can see it in a lot of guys play the last few years here...and I don't blame them.



Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Waffler on February 20, 2019, 01:46:38 PM
I think you have to go back to Stegall to find another true CFL-top receiver find by WPG scouts, right?  That's a horrible batting average.  However, we are getting waaay better at scouting D talent.  Maybe the current scouts should handle D and we hire a new guy to scout O.

At one time receivers were falling out of the sky for us. Stegall, Simon, Bruce, R Bryant. All brought in to the league as Bombers.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_or_die on February 20, 2019, 01:53:50 PM
In my opinion part of the problem with us not finding/having a game breaking receiver is because we don't give a guy a chance, or use anybody to be that type of receiver..Darvin gets a few deep shots here and there and the odd time we send a guy downfield on a post or fade, but rarely do we do anything to have guys layered in depth, moving in full stride or sent to open spaces isolating one on one.

Pretty much everything is within the hashes to a guy who is not moving, or settling down underneath coverage, or a swing or short out to a guy with pretty much all the defenders in front of him and they have to beat defenders after the catch to gain more than 5-6 yards, so it's no wonder since Lapo came back to be the O.C that we haven't had  "that" guy

Also even though these guys are pro's it get's deflating knowing that you're not gonna be allowed to cut loose, or that the offence is going to be pedestrian and focus around 2-3 guys, so your intensity drops off and you almost just go through the motions. You can see it in a lot of guys play the last few years here...and I don't blame them.



66Chevelle is going to drool over this post


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: booch on February 20, 2019, 01:57:05 PM
yes....but really it's true...when you run basically a static receiving game, it gets pretty predictable and easy to defend, and also near immpossible to groom a burner...maybe thats why some receivers chose elsewhere too...wouldn't surprise me


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: kkc60 on February 20, 2019, 02:09:08 PM
Except it's not four. Adams was an Argo find and Edwards was an Alouette find.

Matthews and Denmark were Joe Mack finds.
So two in the past 10

Nice


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on February 20, 2019, 02:24:39 PM
yes....but really it's true...when you run basically a static receiving game, it gets pretty predictable and easy to defend, and also near immpossible to groom a burner...maybe thats why some receivers chose elsewhere too...wouldn't surprise me

We led the league in passing plays over 30 yards in 2016 and 2017. Last year we were 3rd.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: booch on February 20, 2019, 02:45:56 PM
I kn ow...which is shocking to say the least....and i put a lot of that though on the individual effort of guys like Adams who on some of those plays had sick effort to gain those yards...as a lot of them were a result of a 10-15 yard pass that the receiver busted into a big play on sheer effort....now imagine if we ran an offence where we had designed deep shots with multiple guys a play???


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Ridermania on February 20, 2019, 02:51:06 PM
I believe Dressler will sign with only the Bombers or Riders.

See him getting around $90K including bonus money.

He won't move far away for his last season.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on February 20, 2019, 02:58:33 PM
I believe Dressler will sign with only the Bombers or Riders.

See him getting around $90K including bonus money.

He won't move far away for his last season.

He may be a "injury" call up for one of our teams, sorta how Denmark was.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_or_die on February 20, 2019, 02:58:39 PM
I believe Dressler will sign with only the Bombers or Riders.

See him getting around $90K including bonus money.

He won't move far away for his last season.

I think you're right, although 90k seems ridiculously low. 120 I think is more reasonable but it depends what the market is like.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: ModAdmin on February 20, 2019, 02:58:52 PM
If the last few years are any indication, I wouldn't hold my breath on that. The team needs a proven #1 receiver - sooner than later.

Adams was an Argonauts' find. He signed here as a FA in 2015.
Edwards was also an Argonauts' find. He signed here as a FA in 2007.

Correct but my post was in response to another poster's claim we have found "nobody" since Milt Stegall.  Making stuff up doesn't help discussions.

And my apologies for misspelling Darvin Adams name.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_or_die on February 20, 2019, 03:03:00 PM
I think the concern is what this current regime has done for import receivers. Full credit for some of the magic KW has performed in the draft, free agencies, etc. over the past 5 years, but this is a glaring area of weakness. We all know that the CFL needs ELC players to come in and play out of their mind for a few years in order for a team to be good, and at a position like receiver where most of your points are scored, to not have that hurts. We need to improve here.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: ModAdmin on February 20, 2019, 03:10:30 PM
No question about that.  The fact we went hard after top tier free agent receivers this year underlines that.  It has to be a priority.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_or_die on February 20, 2019, 03:12:52 PM
No question about that.  The fact we went hard after top tier free agent receivers this year underlines that.  It has to be a priority.

Agreed that a stellar FA receiver would be huge (and necessary), but in addition to that we will need someone who is almost as good and much cheaper. That's where the scouting needs to step up.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 20, 2019, 03:58:37 PM
Except it's not four. Adams was an Argo find and Edwards was an Alouette find.

Matthews and Denmark were Joe Mack finds.

Both were found by the Argos, actually. Edwards never dressed for them and wound up in Montreal after the Argonauts released him the same season, though.

Needless to say, the current regime's inability to unearth INT talent at the receiver position is a seriously glaring deficiency.

EDIT: whoops!


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: kkc60 on February 20, 2019, 04:17:05 PM
Both were found by the Argos, actually. Edwards never dressed for them and wound up in Montreal after the Argonauts released him the same season, though.

Needless to say, the current regime's inability to unearth NAT talent at the receiver position is a seriously glaring deficiency.
Nat talent at receiver looks fine...its int that isn't. Which is funny considering its normally the opposite


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2019, 04:18:25 PM
Both were found by the Argos, actually. Edwards never dressed for them and wound up in Montreal after the Argonauts released him the same season, though.

Needless to say, the current regime's inability to unearth NAT talent at the receiver position is a seriously glaring deficiency.

I think you mean INT.

Scouts bring in players.  Their sources are burger flippin joints, pickup games in high school feilds, NCAA games/tape, NFL roster cuts, and yes, CFL roster cuts.  If you pick up Darvin Adams after Tor deems him not worthy of keeping / protecting, and he turns out to be a gooder, that is no less an achievement than recruiting a guy 2 years out of football and having him come in and compete.  You need to use your resources... ALL your resources...  to find players.  I get it that if you sign a proven CFL player in FA, thats not really on the scouts.  But picking someone off their PR or after they cut them, that's still scouting.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 20, 2019, 04:53:44 PM
Yes, I did mean INT. Sorry for the confusion and thanks for pointing out my error.

Other teams have managed to unearth talented receivers in the last six years since this regime took over. There's no reason this team can't, regardless of whatever silly spin or excuse you want to make.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2019, 05:07:22 PM
Yes, I did mean INT. Sorry for the confusion and thanks for pointing out my error.

Other teams have managed to unearth talented receivers in the last six years since this regime took over. There's no reason this team can't, regardless of whatever silly spin or excuse you want to make.

Fact is, every recruit is a crap shoot, a coin flip.  We've been losing those flips at WR, but nailing them at DB, DE, etc... Eventually the law of averages will get us a quality receiver...


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 20, 2019, 05:33:34 PM
Fact is, every recruit is a crap shoot, a coin flip.  We've been losing those flips at WR, but nailing them at DB, DE, etc... Eventually the law of averages will get us a quality receiver...

And now deflection. Weird how other teams have been able to find all of the above. I guess only the Bombers are subject to the "law of averages" as far INT recruiting goes.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Nic16 on February 20, 2019, 05:43:53 PM
I think the majority of us can agree that in a nutshell the BB?s inability to uncover & develop either an impactful or bonafide CFL INT receiver comes down to...

1. Scouting
2. Receiver Coaching
3. Offensive play calling
4. QB

All 4 need to improve before we see any sort of progress with the INT receiver quandary.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2019, 08:38:40 PM
And now deflection. Weird how other teams have been able to find all of the above. I guess only the Bombers are subject to the "law of averages" as far INT recruiting goes.

We haven't had the best luck with WR's , other teams have had issues find OT's, or DB's, etc...  hopefully this is the year some of our WR light it up...


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue72 on February 20, 2019, 09:25:38 PM
Nis16, 3 out of 4 points are on Lapo, he coaches the receivers, he calls the plays and he picks which QB he wants in at any of the plays.

 Wasn't he a more of a long ball coach in Sask, so whats with this big change in play calling. Is it that Nichols can't get the plays of fast enough or that he has a had time reading the field and can't get past his 2 or 3 read and starts hearing foot steps in the pocket? Maybe the WBB just want high % plays to try to stay on the field longer?


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: kkc60 on February 20, 2019, 09:45:03 PM
We haven't had the best luck with WR's , other teams have had issues find OT's, or DB's, etc...  hopefully this is the year some of our WR light it up...
I mean both our OTs were FA signings technically...


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue72 on February 20, 2019, 10:21:47 PM
Sorry Nic16 for the wrong spelling, old age is setting in.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2019, 10:37:43 PM
I mean both our OTs were FA signings technically...

Foketi?  Bond? 


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 20, 2019, 11:57:39 PM
66Chevelle is going to drool over this post

blue_or_die says he knows me, lol...  but you're right, booch is saying exactly what I've been saying for almost 2 years now...  I'm just not sure why some don't want to accept it or admit it's the truth...

you can choose to blame who or whatever you want, whether that's the receivers, the scheme, or the quarterback, however, before you do, I challenge anyone that wants to put it solely in the laps of the receivers to go back and actually watch games from 2017 and 2018... you'll see that booch is absolutely correct in the types of pass plays we execute... none of which really lend themselves to receivers making huge yards after the catch, most are under the defense and in the box which allows the defense to almost immediately collapse upon the play...

playing receiver in Winnipeg right now is a tough gig...  it's not a place a receiver will want to land if their priority is to collect game tape in an effort to showcase their talents for a, or another, shot in the NFL... it just is what it is... people are wanting 'game breaking' performance out of 'possession type' play calling... and, that type of play calling seems to play into Nichols' strengths...

when Nichols is completing a lot of passes early, he seems to become more confident and his long ball is better... that's why it seems like when it's going good, it's going real good, or when it's going not so good, the numbers for the day as a whole reflect such...

that's why I say signing Dressler is important to our receiving success in 2019... say what you want, but Nichols seems to be a better QB when Dressler is near by... and though you can automatically pencil him in on missing a few games a year, nobody is better at working this pass offense than him at getting open and presenting Nichols a target on almost every down...

what I don't get, is that those short passes are going to be there regardless, why send all 5 receivers into the box? let Harris come out of the backfield, send Demski and Dressler on those short safe routes and then open it up and let the 2 others go...

but I've said it countless times, 2 passes of 3 yards looks great in the pass completion percentage column but it still results in a punt... throwing a screen pass on 2nd and 7 just makes me shake my head each and every time...


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 21, 2019, 12:20:20 AM
Foketi?  Bond? 

Bryant. Hardrick.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: kkc60 on February 21, 2019, 12:22:31 AM
Foketi?  Bond? 
Bond is a guard. Foketi has always been a backup


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 21, 2019, 12:23:17 AM
Bond is a guard. Foketi has always been a backup

He's playing dumb. He knew exactly what you meant.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: fansince79 on February 21, 2019, 12:31:03 AM
I?d like to see Washington and Simonise step up and make an impact. They?re both big targets and may be able stretch the field. But I?m not holding my breath.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: DM83 on February 21, 2019, 02:38:38 AM
I would like to take a vacation to Hawaii, and afford a Cadillac SUV.

Thei season will be similar to,last, maybe a few more losses.  Ya only have to win 3 games in November, so anyone can go to the. Cup.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: RebusRankin on February 21, 2019, 03:11:22 AM
Taman had a 3 year stretch where he brought Geroy Simon, Arland Bruce and Albert Johnson 3 to the CFL (99-01). Also found Romby in 2008. Mack had Chris Matthews in 12. Other than that, we've been unable to find any wr who made an impact.

Since this regime took over Edmonton has: Williams/Walker/Zylstra, Calgary has Jorden/Michel, BC has Burnham, Saskatchewan has Roosevelt, Toronto: Hazelton, Spencer, Hamilton has Tasker and Banks and fairly certain other posters can add to this.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: M.O.A.B. on February 21, 2019, 03:16:34 AM
How much of this inability to find quality receivers should be put on Lapo?
He's the most offensive-minded coach on the staff, the current OC and the receivers coach. He knows what kind of receivers will fit on his system.
He surely have something to say who goes and who stays among the receivers brought and will be brought in.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: kkc60 on February 21, 2019, 03:35:41 AM
How much of this inability to find quality receivers should be put on Lapo?
He's the most offensive-minded coach on the staff, the current OC and the receivers coach. He knows what kind of receivers will fit on his system.
He surely have something to say who goes and who stays among the receivers brought and will be brought in.
We weren't finding WRs with Bellefeuille either. But really some blame is on LaPo and some on Nichols too. I mean it's obvious he only throws to players not named Andrew, Darvin or Weston a few times a game. Some of it has to do with familiarity. If Dress isn't back, it'll be interesting to see what Nichols does


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: BLUEBOMBER on February 21, 2019, 04:43:13 AM
Our receiving Corp sucks... we should have spent big bucks to get difference makers like Roosevelt, Burnham or Ellingson.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 21, 2019, 07:55:33 AM
At one time receivers were falling out of the sky for us. Stegall, Simon, Bruce, R Bryant. All brought in to the league as Bombers.

You're right and it's not 0 or 1 since Stegall, it's 2-3 since Stegall.  That makes it a bit better, but still not CGY recruiting levels (2-3 every year on average?).

Was A.Johnson good enough to include in this list?  Still, not enough.  Under a handful in nearly 25 years?  Horrible.

The other issue is keeping these guys.  Besides Stegall, which BB-scouted league top-3 WR did we keep for more than 2 years?  Sure, we can't be blamed for losing guys to the NFL, but we can be for losing them to other teams.

In comparison, CGY has kept Rogers into his 4th CFL year, HAM Banks/Tasker for 6, BC Arcenaux for 6, for a small sampling.  We can't find 'em, and when we do we can't keep 'em (G.Simon/A.Bruce for only 2).  Can you imagine the possible GCs we might have gone to if we had had Stegall plus Simon and/or Bruce on field simultaneously for 6 full years?

D.Adams is a playmaker... so let's find just 1 more CFL top-5 receiver to pair him with.  That alone should be enough to get us to a GC in '19.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: pjrocksmb on February 22, 2019, 03:15:12 AM
Personally I think he is overrated in many people's minds.  He wouldn't even be the best receiver on the bombers - darvin is better...

Duke Williams is the best of that lot but he is going to get a legit shot at training camp and nfl preseason.

Yup throwing money at Matthews is desperate and not a good idea.  Patience.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: pjrocksmb on February 22, 2019, 03:18:17 AM
we will find a guy or two this year that will do fine


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: kkc60 on February 22, 2019, 05:59:20 AM
we will find a guy or two this year that will do fine
Who do you propose? Because we have yet to have that happen


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: buckzumhoff on February 22, 2019, 06:19:50 AM
sign B.J. Cunningham from Montreal . He is still a free agent.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_or_die on February 22, 2019, 01:11:07 PM
we will find a guy or two this year that will do fine

The most PJ post I've seen in a long time.

- States something positive will happen as if it's a fact, or has any sort of precedence
- Tempers the prediction by keeping expectations low.

Doing "fine" isn't going to be enough.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Jbombers on February 22, 2019, 01:19:09 PM
sign B.J. Cunningham from Montreal . He is still a free agent.

He resigned with MTL.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on February 22, 2019, 01:19:33 PM
sign B.J. Cunningham from Montreal . He is still a free agent.

He signed in Montreal before Free Agency. He was on my list too. Would have been a good fit for us I thought.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on February 22, 2019, 04:08:07 PM
The most PJ post I've seen in a long time.

- States something positive will happen as if it's a fact, or has any sort of precedence
- Tempers the prediction by keeping expectations low.

Doing "fine" isn't going to be enough.

LOL. He's started doing that earlier this year. I suppose if things like that are said often enough, eventually he'll be right.

OTOH I did like the flash that Nelson and Washington showed in the game they played. Small sample but sometimes that's all you get in regular season games.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: M.O.A.B. on February 22, 2019, 05:01:18 PM
how 'bout acquire a receiver from trade ? is that an option at this point ?
or just wait for sit and wait until someone fall from NFL tree.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on February 22, 2019, 05:20:13 PM
how 'bout acquire a receiver from trade ? is that an option at this point ?
or just wait for sit and wait until someone fall from NFL tree.

Always a possibility but who or what would you trade. In theory you have to trade a starter /  top prospect to get a starter although we might be willing to part with 1 of our 2 1st round picks?

I'd be more inclined to trade one of those picks for a quality Canadian that might be able to start or be a very good rotation player.

However it's been mentioned that we might try and sign Jesse Joseph for that role. Can't think of too many quality Canadians that might be on the trade market.

If we sign Ackie and or Joseph that need might go away. The other option is to trade up to ensure we get the 1 player we might really want. Adding 2 1st round draft picks might be an SMS issue at that point. Depends on what happens between now and then.

Overall pretty pleased with the Canadians we have although losing 3 starters does hurt. Some big questions on the development curve of a few back ups we have that might end up starting.

Waiting for a good player to shake free from the NFL might not happen or if it does not until mid season usually. Of course that's the unknown statement. Could be right after NFL draft for example.



Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 22, 2019, 05:21:33 PM
how 'bout acquire a receiver from trade ? is that an option at this point ?

Such as...?


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: rubanski on February 22, 2019, 05:51:20 PM
I'm just glad we didn't sign Arceneaux. His size is great, but the speed and agility is looking more and more like 2018 Adarius Bowman.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 22, 2019, 11:29:57 PM
I'm just glad we didn't sign Arceneaux. His size is great, but the speed and agility is looking more and more like 2018 Adarius Bowman.

Plus because of injury he won't be ready to go until maybe mid-season, even for the Riders this was a questionable signing.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: ka8 on March 05, 2019, 07:04:18 PM
I'd like to see them move Wolitarsky to the SB position.  Every time I see him play, I see Jason Clermont potential.  Practically identical size and athleticism.  Clermont had Dickenson and Printers chucking him the ball in BC and a young Durant to finish his career in SK.

I gotta believe that with Nichols and Strev for the next 5-8 years we have something that could be special.  Demski and Woli in the slot with Petermann rotating is something I don't mind seeing. 


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 05, 2019, 09:53:16 PM
I'd like to see them move Wolitarsky to the SB position.  Every time I see him play, I see Jason Clermont potential.  Practically identical size and athleticism.  Clermont had Dickenson and Printers chucking him the ball in BC and a young Durant to finish his career in SK.

I gotta believe that with Nichols and Strev for the next 5-8 years we have something that could be special.  Demski and Woli in the slot with Petermann rotating is something I don't mind seeing. 

I think we might just see that happen in 2019. Not so sure we'll have both our QB's for 5-8 years though.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Nic16 on March 05, 2019, 10:00:18 PM
Terrell Sinkfield might be the answer to replace Dressler.
https://3downnation.com/2019/03/05/terrell-sinkfield-released-by-aaf-team/ (https://3downnation.com/2019/03/05/terrell-sinkfield-released-by-aaf-team/)

Speed to burn, and 1,000+ yds receiving with Hammy a couple of years ago before his aspirations to be an NFL DB interfered with his CFL receiver career.

He?s only 28, a bigger body & faster than Dressler, a returner and can also play DB.

Checks several boxes while the BB figure what INT receivers to develop.

Simonise-Wolitarsky-Demski-Sinkfield-Adams
Draft pick .......Peterman


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: theaardvark on March 05, 2019, 10:58:27 PM
Wanb't Sinkfeld a DB in the AAF and college?


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Jesse on March 05, 2019, 11:02:36 PM
Wanb't Sinkfeld a DB in the AAF and college?

He was a receiver in the CFL.

Outside that one season in ?15 though, he never did much of anything.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: kkc60 on March 05, 2019, 11:41:46 PM
I'd sign Sinkfield, see if he is anything


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: pjrocksmb on March 05, 2019, 11:51:26 PM
I would take a sniff at him on the cheap that is


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: DM83 on March 06, 2019, 02:06:42 AM
Didn't he sign with someone back in January?


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: dd on March 06, 2019, 03:21:26 AM
 Concerning he was dropped by the AAF, but I?d take a look at him, guaranteed upgrade at kick/punt returner and 4.19 speed is pretty darned fast!!


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: kkc60 on March 06, 2019, 04:15:04 AM
Concerning he was dropped by the AAF, but I?d take a look at him, guaranteed upgrade at kick/punt returner and 4.19 speed is pretty darned fast!!
We've already signed some AAF cuts. Players are gonna go both ways.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: TecnoGenius on March 06, 2019, 06:54:54 AM
We've already signed some AAF cuts. Players are gonna go both ways.

I don't know... after watching 3 weeks of AAF it looks like the talent is far below CFL levels.  That's sad.

If you don't find a team in the CFL and then get cut from the AAF after actually taking game reps, isn't that pretty much a disaster?

With NFL cuts at least we (the CFL) find the gems who can be great ballers but just aren't suitable for the NFL (i.e. Water bugs and shrimpkins).  Not everyone can be a 6'3" giant, or a mobile 290lbs, and that's great for us.

I think CFL can use AAF exactly like they do NFL.  If someone is a NFL-reject, then AAF-reject, they could find a great home in the CFL.  But players who couldn't cut it in the NFL, then CFL, then AAF?  I don't think they'll get much traction up here.  Order is important.  I'd say Sinkfield is sunk.  Pass.

The search continues...


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 06, 2019, 12:36:06 PM
Big thumbs down for me on Sinkfield. He hasn't done anything productive in this league in a few years. Sure he had a good season, his only good season, a few years ago but has done little in the last 4 years. I would prefer Dressler if we are going to go for a mid tier receiver.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 06, 2019, 02:02:48 PM
We've already signed some AAF cuts. Players are gonna go both ways.

Sometimes good players don't make rosters. OTOH he's bounced around the CFL, NFL and AFL so there must be something to it. There may be some work ethic issues involved since he does seem to have some natural talent.

My inclination might be more inclined to give a rookie out of the AAF more of a chance that didn't get past TC. That can just be a numbers game players get caught in.

I do like that kind of versatility in a player that could be a DI. Duron Carter without the attitude for example.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 06, 2019, 02:16:54 PM
So far we have: Washington, Lawler and Nelson returning to compete at TC. Mostly they were PR players. Team says their high on all of them.

Thompkins returns after most of the season on the 44 AR.

New rookie receivers coming to TC at this point: Bailey, Clark, Johnson,Williams and Wilson.  More will be added before rookie mini camp and before actual TC.

Any early favorites?


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: kkc60 on March 06, 2019, 02:32:59 PM
I don't know... after watching 3 weeks of AAF it looks like the talent is far below CFL levels.  That's sad.

If you don't find a team in the CFL and then get cut from the AAF after actually taking game reps, isn't that pretty much a disaster?

With NFL cuts at least we (the CFL) find the gems who can be great ballers but just aren't suitable for the NFL (i.e. Water bugs and shrimpkins).  Not everyone can be a 6'3" giant, or a mobile 290lbs, and that's great for us.

I think CFL can use AAF exactly like they do NFL.  If someone is a NFL-reject, then AAF-reject, they could find a great home in the CFL.  But players who couldn't cut it in the NFL, then CFL, then AAF?  I don't think they'll get much traction up here.  Order is important.  I'd say Sinkfield is sunk.  Pass.

The search continues...
No, because the AAF can also only carry so many players. Just because one league doesn't think much of a player doesn't mean they aren't good.

Apparently there was interest in Sinkfield. He just chose the AAF over the CFL


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Nic16 on March 06, 2019, 02:40:24 PM
Big thumbs down for me on Sinkfield. He hasn't done anything productive in this league in a few years. Sure he had a good season, his only good season, a few years ago but has done little in the last 4 years. I would prefer Dressler if we are going to go for a mid tier receiver.

2016 GP.    Rec.  yds. Yac.  Tds.   Avg. longest
BC   7   16   297   92   3   18.6   62

These numbers are actually are pretty impressive when you consider he arrived mid-season.

Jennings had a team MOP season that year thanks to the connection he already had with an awesome group of receivers: Arceneaux, Burnham, Moore, Gore, Ianuzzi and Harris in the backfield.

92 Yac & 18.6 Avg is impressive.

In 2017 he was in the NFL...as a DB.

In 2018...he arrived in mid-Oct to play 2 games after a yr & a half down south - as a ?DB?.

I?m not so sure we are in the position not to give his tires a few kicks...IF you can avoid the signing bonus.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: TecnoGenius on March 07, 2019, 06:13:43 AM
I?m not so sure we are in the position not to give [Sinkfield's] tires a few kicks...IF you can avoid the signing bonus.

We (WFC) weren't interested in Sinkfield before he became an AAF reject, why would we be interested now?  No other CFL team was ringing him up either, why do you think he signed in AAF?  For the 10k/game crowd ambiance?

No, because the AAF can also only carry so many players. Just because one league doesn't think much of a player doesn't mean they aren't good.

Apparently there was interest in Sinkfield. He just chose the AAF over the CFL

You're right.  That's what I said.  However, if you get rejected from all 3 leagues in your career... I think that signals the end of the line.  (You realize he lasted only a couple of weeks in the AAF?  Yikes.)

I'd be shocked if any CFL team picks up Sinkfield unless it's for INT ELC money (and shocked even then!).  I'd be doubly shocked if WFC picks him up.

I'd take FA Grant, Hazelton or Criner before I'd take Sinkfield.  (And I don't like any of those 3 in B&G either.)


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: kkc60 on March 07, 2019, 01:30:29 PM
You're right.  That's what I said.  However, if you get rejected from all 3 leagues in your career... I think that signals the end of the line.  (You realize he lasted only a couple of weeks in the AAF?  Yikes.)

I'd be shocked if any CFL team picks up Sinkfield unless it's for INT ELC money (and shocked even then!).  I'd be doubly shocked if WFC picks him up.

I'd take FA Grant, Hazelton or Criner before I'd take Sinkfield.  (And I don't like any of those 3 in B&G either.)

He lasted a couple weeks as a DB. If we were to sign him, it would be as a receiver. Again, 3DN said there was interest in him before he left for the AAF. If a GM liked him but changed his mind because he didnt last at a different position in another league then I mean, I dunno


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Nic16 on March 07, 2019, 04:00:56 PM
We (WFC) weren't interested in Sinkfield before he became an AAF reject, why would we be interested now?  No other CFL team was ringing him up either, why do you think he signed in AAF?  For the 10k/game crowd ambiance?

You're right.  That's what I said.  However, if you get rejected from all 3 leagues in your career... I think that signals the end of the line.  (You realize he lasted only a couple of weeks in the AAF?  Yikes.)

I'd be shocked if any CFL team picks up Sinkfield unless it's for INT ELC money (and shocked even then!).  I'd be doubly shocked if WFC picks him up.

I'd take FA Grant, Hazelton or Criner before I'd take Sinkfield.  (And I don't like any of those 3 in B&G either.)


I guess Techno guy doesn?t google...
https://3downnation.com/2019/03/05/terrell-sinkfield-released-by-aaf-team/ (https://3downnation.com/2019/03/05/terrell-sinkfield-released-by-aaf-team/)

Sinkfield has/had a goal to make the NFL as a DB...the AAF was another means to that goal.

No idea if the BB were interested back then or now, but it sounds like you may have some insider info on this.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: DM83 on March 07, 2019, 04:41:31 PM
Sinkfield is  better than what we have now. We have no established guys at the one spot, only unknowns.  Sinkfield is a known commodity., and could be the matching bookend we have long needed.

Plus he returns  kicks
Plus he can be a DB

This is a no-brainer,
Sign the guy already


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: TecnoGenius on March 08, 2019, 06:36:31 AM
He lasted a couple weeks as a DB. If we were to sign him, it would be as a receiver. Again, 3DN said there was interest in him before he left for the AAF. If a GM liked him but changed his mind because he didnt last at a different position in another league then I mean, I dunno

Oh, I didn't know he was still DB in AAF... interesting.  I guess instead of 3 shots (1 each league), he gets 6 shots (1 each league times 2 positions DB/WR)?  ;)

Sinkfield is  better than what we have now. We have no established guys at the one spot, only unknowns.  Sinkfield is a known commodity., and could be the matching bookend we have long needed.

Plus he returns  kicks
Plus he can be a DB

I forgot the returns.  OK, you guys convinced me.  If we can snap him up cheap (surely he's worth no more than he got in AAF, accounting for exchange rate/taxes) then why not?  I assume we all agree he's better than Nelson (or at least a more known-quantity)?

However, I'm still a tiny bit leery as all the times I heard his name in the CFL since his "good" season he hasn't done very much or impressed greatly.  Surely he's not top-3 in CFL quality -- and that's what we need this year.  And he's always flitting off on some boondoggle.

Even if we get Sinkfield, we still need a top-3 WR.

P.S. Too bad the guy's not a NAT... a NAT triple-threat like this guy would be handy.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: dd on March 11, 2019, 02:54:48 AM
I dunno. If he couldn?t stick with a  cfl team and then gets cut from an AAF team, that tells me his best years are behind him. If he?s better than anything we ve got, that?s not a good thing for a lot folks folks around here?scouts and GM!!!


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 11, 2019, 10:22:17 AM
Maybe we should bring back Tori Gurley..he also posted good numbers 4 years ago...or Clarence Denmark. Terrell Sinkfield is scrap heaping.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: DM83 on March 11, 2019, 11:09:36 AM
Lol!  He is not my first or even tenth choice.....but that just shows how bad the Bombers are at that position.
Any way it's presented....the scouts and Walters have not done the job.m

They don't seem capeable of bringing in a player who can make an impact from a college. And Walters can't get an established Free agent. 

This recruiting group and Walters has me wondering if these guys should be paid money to be involved with the club. Bighill fell into their lap, so that was a no brainer.  But what else has Walters done to build us a Grey Cup team?

It's been so quiet this last few weeks, it's a little odd.

No game breaker on offence speaks of a pretty lame season.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 11, 2019, 12:29:35 PM
Lol!  He is not my first or even tenth choice.....but that just shows how bad the Bombers are at that position.
Any way it's presented....the scouts and Walters have not done the job.m

They don't seem capeable of bringing in a player who can make an impact from a college. And Walters can't get an established Free agent. 

This recruiting group and Walters has me wondering if these guys should be paid money to be involved with the club. Bighill fell into their lap, so that was a no brainer.  But what else has Walters done to build us a Grey Cup team?

It's been so quiet this last few weeks, it's a little odd.

No game breaker on offence speaks of a pretty lame season.


I'd rather we wait to see what shakes loose from the NFL. Signing guys just for the sake of signing guys is not a good approach.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 11, 2019, 12:57:12 PM
Waiting for a player to shake loose from the NFL is a bit like betting on the lottery. It may never happen and if it does that player may end up elsewhere.

We always hear the coaches being optimistic about returning candidates that were rookies the previous year. Myles White was that guy in 2018 and he didn't make the roster.

This year it's Nelson or Washington. Will one of them step up or do we just see a few new faces on the PR?

Scouts ***** are you out there unearthing a gem?

I don't see any remaining receivers left in free agency that I have much interest in. Dressler at a reduced price is just a maybe as well.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 11, 2019, 02:08:26 PM
Bighill fell into their lap, so that was a no brainer.  But what else has Walters done to build us a Grey Cup team?

Bighill didn't fall into anyone's lap. And he did just re-sign for three more years but of course you'd ignore that.

Walters has done a ton to build the team's roster as far as talent and depth go, particularly with NAT players. The INT receiver position is the lone area in which he's faltered.

Pretty disingenuous commentary from you.

I'd rather we wait to see what shakes loose from the NFL. Signing guys just for the sake of signing guys is not a good approach.

A team runs a risk now either way. But I agree, signing players out there right now makes little sense. There's a reason those players are still out there: they're not any good or they're not worth what they're asking.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 11, 2019, 02:37:37 PM
Waiting for a player to shake loose from the NFL is a bit like betting on the lottery. It may never happen and if it does that player may end up elsewhere.

We always hear the coaches being optimistic about returning candidates that were rookies the previous year. Myles White was that guy in 2018 and he didn't make the roster.

This year it's Nelson or Washington. Will one of them step up or do we just see a few new faces on the PR?

Scouts ***** are you out there unearthing a gem?

I don't see any remaining receivers left in free agency that I have much interest in. Dressler at a reduced price is just a maybe as well.

I dunno, I'm not convinced either Washington or Nelson will be "the guy", Washington looked pretty pedestrian last season and Nelson does not have the size needed IMO.  I'm still hoping Thompkins can raise his game as he looked great in pre-season but blended into the wood work during the regular season, so whether he sinks or swims will be determined in T.C.  I'm pretty much in the camp that LaPo does not utilize these receivers in a way that's favourable to their talents, so the criteria for evaluation of success is questionable. 

I always refer back to Thomas Mayo in 2016, he showed well in pre-season and regular season games when given his shot, good hands, big body, aggressive and reliable, given the opportunity to develop further it's hard to say what could have been.  He showed his ability on the field in two games with 7 receptions each but in the end was cut when they decided to go with receivers they thought had more potential or contributed more to S.T.'s but ultimately never panned out.  I can hardly remember their names, Gerrard Sheppard, Jace Davis and Kris Adams are a few long forgotten. Ricky Collins an early cut from the same year has gone on to slowly established a career in the CFL, so I'm not convinced they recognize the talent they're looking for even when it's right under their noses.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 11, 2019, 02:47:15 PM
I dunno, I'm not convinced either Washington or Nelson will be "the guy", Washington looked pretty pedestrian last season and Nelson does not have the size needed IMO.  I'm still hoping Thompkins can raise his game as he looked great in pre-season but blended into the wood work during the regular season, so whether he sinks or swims will be determined in T.C.  I'm pretty much in the camp that LaPo does not utilize these receivers in a way that's favourable to their talents, so the criteria for evaluation of success is questionable. 

I always refer back to Thomas Mayo in 2016, he showed well in pre-season and regular season games when given his shot, good hands, big body, aggressive and reliable, given the opportunity to develop further it's hard to say what could have been.  He showed his ability on the field in two games with 7 receptions each but in the end was cut when they decided to go with receivers they thought had more potential or contributed more to S.T.'s but ultimately never panned out.  I can hardly remember their names, Gerrard Sheppard, Jace Davis and Kris Adams are a few long forgotten. Ricky Collins an early cut from the same year has gone on to slowly established a career in the CFL, so I don't have confidence they recognize the talent they're looking for even when it's right under their noses.

I wouldn't say I have confidence in Washington or Nelson either. Just saying they are  what's left from 2018 rookies. Even Thompkins is not a lock IMO.

Our coaches must be able to recognize talent when they find it so I'd disagree on your comment about that. My long standing view is that they haven't found talent as good as Calgary or Edmonton does for example.

Ricky Collins only has 1331 yards in 3 CFl seasons on 3 teams. That's not exactly a high bar to set. Thompkins has a better average yardage per reception.

I don't know anything about the new rookies signed for TC. Usually a few get released early as other candidates are found in mini and rookie camps.

Who makes it to the main TC and shows well is just a waiting game.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 11, 2019, 02:53:47 PM
Bighill didn't fall into anyone's lap. And he did just re-sign for three more years but of course you'd ignore that.

Walters has done a ton to build the team's roster as far as talent and depth go, particularly with NAT players. The INT receiver position is the lone area in which he's faltered.

Pretty disingenuous commentary from you.

A team runs a risk now either way. But I agree, signing players out there right now makes little sense. There's a reason those players are still out there: they're not any good or they're not worth what they're asking.

IMO Bighill did fall into the Bombers lap in 2018. There was no way to predict if or when he'd become available or where he might sign. Not every team had SMS or a need for a top MLB that close to TC.

Being able to re-sign him was good work. However again, how many teams were actually looking for and willing to spend top money for a MLB?


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: theaardvark on March 11, 2019, 03:14:38 PM
IMO Bighill did fall into the Bombers lap in 2018. There was no way to predict if or when he'd become available or where he might sign. Not every team had SMS or a need for a top MLB that close to TC.

Being able to re-sign him was good work. However again, how many teams were actually looking for and willing to spend top money for a MLB?

Yeah, in a league of non guaranteed contract, not a lot of teams would trade their current MLB for Adam Bighill, except maybe ALL OF THEM...

And he didn't fall into our laps, and it wasn't a no-brainer.  But we have built a culture here that attracted him, starting with the HC, and after a year of playing here, we were able to re-sign him for 3 more... 


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 11, 2019, 03:21:44 PM
Yeah, in a league of non guaranteed contract, not a lot of teams would trade their current MLB for Adam Bighill, except maybe ALL OF THEM...

And he didn't fall into our laps, and it wasn't a no-brainer.  But we have built a culture here that attracted him, starting with the HC, and after a year of playing here, we were able to re-sign him for 3 more... 

It's one thing to sign a top player to big $$ in the 1st few days of FL free agency. It's totally a different situation when a player becomes available close to TC when most teams have spent the bulk of their SMS on free agents.

Bighill was signed on May 19 2018.

Sure we've built a good culture in Winnipeg. Did that help us keep JSK, Chungh or Loffler?

Regardless of what you think not every team is willing to trade their MLB for Bighill without the consideration of their SMS position.  Not every team will even consider spending that much money on a MLB.

How many teams are lined up to trade for Solly out of BC? The SMS hit is always a consideration. There are only 9 CFL teams and they all spend their money differently on a positional basis. The Lions choose to spend a big number on Reilly at the expense of a top MLB.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: dd on March 11, 2019, 03:54:51 PM
We got Bighill in 2018 because everyother team other than the BB had a MLB, so the demand wasn't there--we were the only team looking for a MLB, so it was the perfect fit.

We got Bighill in 2019 because we were willing to pay him what he wanted and he was comfortable with our scheme and clubhouse. But we had to restructure salaries elsewhere to make it possible to sign him. Not all teams in this league would do that.Most teams I would say are set at MLB, and as much as Bighill would be an upgrade to what they presently have, they have other roster needs where money has to be spent so they spend it there.

and as much as we like to play the culture card, our culture didn't attract any FA WR to come to Winnipeg....


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: BlueInCgy on March 11, 2019, 04:05:55 PM
We got Bighill in 2018 because everyother team other than the BB had a MLB, so the demand wasn't there--we were the only team looking for a MLB, so it was the perfect fit.

We got Bighill in 2019 because we were willing to pay him what he wanted and he was comfortable with our scheme and clubhouse. But we had to restructure salaries elsewhere to make it possible to sign him. Not all teams in this league would do that.Most teams I would say are set at MLB, and as much as Bighill would be an upgrade to what they presently have, they have other roster needs where money has to be spent so they spend it there.

and as much as we like to play the culture card, our culture didn't attract any FA WR to come to Winnipeg....


This year's net FA total is very telling of the value of the "culture" card.  And that value, apparently, is not very much, unless we match it with dollars.  Which makes sense, because a great place to work that doesn't pay that well nor is the best at what they do only goes so far in most businesses in Canada.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: theaardvark on March 11, 2019, 04:13:43 PM
We got Bighill in 2018 because everyother team other than the BB had a MLB, so the demand wasn't there--we were the only team looking for a MLB, so it was the perfect fit.

We got Bighill in 2019 because we were willing to pay him what he wanted and he was comfortable with our scheme and clubhouse. But we had to restructure salaries elsewhere to make it possible to sign him. Not all teams in this league would do that.Most teams I would say are set at MLB, and as much as Bighill would be an upgrade to what they presently have, they have other roster needs where money has to be spent so they spend it there.

and as much as we like to play the culture card, our culture didn't attract any FA WR to come to Winnipeg....

We got Bighill in 2018 for $175k bcause every other team had its MLB.  We re-signed him this year because of the culture and the team...  and yes, he was attracted to our culture in the first place, it was widely reported that his respect for O'Shea was a large part of him considering Winnipeg... even though his family is in BC.  I'd bet BC would have brought him back at $175k last year, and if culture were not a consideration, all other things being equal, I'm sure he would have signed for even less in BC due to the economies of having his family there, BC might have got him for $160k... 

Yes, all conjecture, I know... but poo poo'ing the culture, the facilities, the stability of the WBB is just wrong.  This group has worked very hard to make this an attractive place for players.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on March 11, 2019, 04:14:40 PM
We got Bighill in 2018 for $175k bcause every other team had its MLB.  We re-signed him this year because of the culture and the team...  and yes, he was attracted to our culture in the first place, it was widely reported that his respect for O'Shea was a large part of him considering Winnipeg... even though his family is in BC.  I'd bet BC would have brought him back at $175k last year, and if culture were not a consideration, all other things being equal, I'm sure he would have signed for even less in BC due to the economies of having his family there, BC might have got him for $160k... 

Yes, all conjecture, I know... but poo poo'ing the culture, the facilities, the stability of the WBB is just wrong.  This group has worked very hard to make this an attractive place for players.


We've got a good culture and Winnipeg is a great place to play. It's just not the only one.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 11, 2019, 04:46:39 PM
We got Bighill in 2018 because everyother team other than the BB had a MLB, so the demand wasn't there--we were the only team looking for a MLB, so it was the perfect fit.

We got Bighill in 2019 because we were willing to pay him what he wanted and he was comfortable with our scheme and clubhouse. But we had to restructure salaries elsewhere to make it possible to sign him. Not all teams in this league would do that.Most teams I would say are set at MLB, and as much as Bighill would be an upgrade to what they presently have, they have other roster needs where money has to be spent so they spend it there.

and as much as we like to play the culture card, our culture didn't attract any FA WR to come to Winnipeg....

so NOT true... any team that viewed him as an upgrade to their current MLB could have been in the running... with no guaranteed contracts it would have been as simple as sign Bighill and cut whomever...


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 11, 2019, 05:16:59 PM
so NOT true... any team that viewed him as an upgrade to their current MLB could have been in the running... with no guaranteed contracts it would have been as simple as sign Bighill and cut whomever...

That's an over simplification of CFL realities. If a team has a MLB making $125K and Bighill wanted $225K, not every team is going to be willing to do that. I doubt he was going to the Lions for $160K. Calgary doesn't usually get involved in high profile free agents beyond their own.

It's no different than understanding why JSK is no longer in Winnipeg. He'd certainly be an upgrade over Wilson or rookie candidates.

Randle as a DI or moved to the weak side CB is probably better than who we might roster in his place. The Lions HC said he was 1 of the top 2 CB's in the CFL. He's not here because of SMS and how we choose to spend it across the roster.

I suggested last year that we should consider moving Randle to replace Fogg in 2019. If the SMS made sense. Now both are gone. Perhaps Rose will be a better CB than either of them. Not sure but SMS was a large factor.

You just don't always pay the top players the top money because of financial reasons.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: dd on March 11, 2019, 06:12:34 PM
so NOT true... any team that viewed him as an upgrade to their current MLB could have been in the running... with no guaranteed contracts it would have been as simple as sign Bighill and cut whomever...
they could have but didn't, because they would have had to balance the books by cutting the $100k from somewhere else. It was late in the pre season and obviously teams weren't willing to do that then. Even this off season, teams didn't take serious runs at signing Bighill, we did and landed him, but at a cost. There's only so much salary to go around, and if you have adequate play from your MLB, you aren't going to go out and pay top dollar for one of the best, when your team needs are elsewhere. Our needs were at MLB so it was the perfect fit.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: booch on March 11, 2019, 07:50:33 PM
I think Washington will surprise...he got his feet wet...and when thrown the ball made plays with it...It's not his fault in the 3 games he played he wasn't targeted, and don't go and say it's cause "he wasn't open"...and that goes for a lot of the receivers..are crappy scheme half the time doesn't allow for a guy to be truly open it seems...also a 6'4" receiver can be pretty much looked at as open all the time especially when battling 5'9" to 5'11" DB's...any receiver can be thrown open...we just choose to play the short pluck away game


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 11, 2019, 08:37:26 PM
It doesn't appear we'll have Dressler this year. He had 176 receptions against 264 targets in 3 years.

We're going to need to adjust who we're throwing to and that in itself may change our schemes somewhat. Whether that goes away from the safety blanket comfort to a more open attack we'll see.

Woli is going to draw tighter coverage. If we move him inside he's going to open up more space.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 11, 2019, 10:49:19 PM
That's an over simplification of CFL realities. If a team has a MLB making $125K and Bighill wanted $225K, not every team is going to be willing to do that. I doubt he was going to the Lions for $160K. Calgary doesn't usually get involved in high profile free agents beyond their own.

It's no different than understanding why JSK is no longer in Winnipeg. He'd certainly be an upgrade over Wilson or rookie candidates.

Randle as a DI or moved to the weak side CB is probably better than who we might roster in his place. The Lions HC said he was 1 of the top 2 CB's in the CFL. He's not here because of SMS and how we choose to spend it across the roster.

I suggested last year that we should consider moving Randle to replace Fogg in 2019. If the SMS made sense. Now both are gone. Perhaps Rose will be a better CB than either of them. Not sure but SMS was a large factor.

You just don't always pay the top players the top money because of financial reasons.

I understand how it works... but the original poster made it sound like we got Bighill by default, which isn't necessarily the case... any team could, and may, have made a run at Bighill... just because we were the one's to sign him doesn't mean there wasn't interest from one or more other teams...


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: BLUEBOMBER on March 11, 2019, 11:24:43 PM
Let's focus on our Offence.  I think our receiving corps needs a major upgrade if we are to contend next year.  Our receivers seem to be playing hide and seek when it really matters in big games.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: dd on March 11, 2019, 11:46:52 PM
A MAJOR upgrade....and ya, they play hide and seek alright in a big game, nobody's found them yet!!!


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: The Zipp on March 12, 2019, 12:39:35 AM
We've got a good culture and Winnipeg is a great place to play. It's just not the only one.

There it is...so simple and yet so hard for some to grasp...you can be proud of what we have - we have our share of gongshows - but that doesn't discount that other teams are equal and in some things better than what we have. 



Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 12, 2019, 01:21:21 AM
I understand how it works... but the original poster made it sound like we got Bighill by default, which isn't necessarily the case... any team could, and may, have made a run at Bighill... just because we were the one's to sign him doesn't mean there wasn't interest from one or more other teams...

Very few teams were in dire need of a MLB. That was the point. The Als had Muamba. Lions had Elimimium. Edmonton had Sherritt. Calgary had Singleton. Toronto had Woods.

That's just a start and I eliminated 5 teams that wouldn't have had a need to sign a MLB even as a WIL for $175K just before TC.

Just because talent becomes available it doesn't mean every team will take a run at that player unless it's a particular area of need. Then there's the SMS consideration.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue girl on March 12, 2019, 02:06:59 AM
I listened to The Bomber special that was on CJOB tonight and Kyle Walters said that they've told Dressler that they are going to be moving on. They are however still interested in Chris Matthews but right now he is still trying to get back to the NFL.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 12, 2019, 02:53:22 AM
Just found the following on Bighill's Wikipedia page.

New Orleans Saints
Bighill signed a future/reserve contract with the New Orleans Saints on January 4, 2017.[9][10] Bighill drew strongly positive attention for his performance during the Saints training camp and preseason. He was waived on September 2, 2017, and was signed to the Saints' practice squad the next day.[11][12] He was promoted to the active roster on September 11, 2017.[13] He was released the following day,[14] and re-signed to the practice squad on September 14, 2017.[15] He was promoted back to the active roster on October 12, 2017.[16] He was waived again on October 17, 2017 and re-signed to the practice squad.[17] He was promoted back to the active roster on November 18, 2017.[18] He was waived two days later and re-signed to the practice squad. He signed a reserve/future contract with the Saints on January 16, 2018. On May 14, 2018, Bighill was waived by the Saints

No wonder he tired of the NFL, the Saints used him as a Yo Yo!


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 12, 2019, 11:21:46 AM
We got Bighill in 2018 because everyother team other than the BB had a MLB, so the demand wasn't there--we were the only team looking for a MLB, so it was the perfect fit.

We got Bighill in 2019 because we were willing to pay him what he wanted and he was comfortable with our scheme and clubhouse. But we had to restructure salaries elsewhere to make it possible to sign him. Not all teams in this league would do that.Most teams I would say are set at MLB, and as much as Bighill would be an upgrade to what they presently have, they have other roster needs where money has to be spent so they spend it there.

and as much as we like to play the culture card, our culture didn't attract any FA WR to come to Winnipeg....

Our culture didn't lose us any FA WRs either. At the end of the day cash is king.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 12, 2019, 11:22:33 AM
I listened to The Bomber special that was on CJOB tonight and Kyle Walters said that they've told Dressler that they are going to be moving on. They are however still interested in Chris Matthews but right now he is still trying to get back to the NFL.

Confirms what most of us suspected I think. Good to know that we still appear to have some elite receiver bank in place, or at the very least the Bomber appear to be willing to make one fit into the SMS.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 12, 2019, 01:25:34 PM
We've got a good culture and Winnipeg is a great place to play. It's just not the only one.

That's sort of my point and why I contend the idea Bighill "fell into the lap" of Walters. To me, that term implies nobody had to do any work to get him to sign here - and that is simply untrue. It also does a disservice to the regime, whose dedication has done a lot to turn around this organization and build a perennial winner.

And the fact Bighill chose to remain a Bomber for the next three years only strengthens that argument, IMO. Big fish don't just fall into one's lap. You still have to set the hook.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: TBURGESS on March 12, 2019, 02:26:59 PM
Bighill came available late. If Durant hadn't taken his bonus and retired, we wouldn't have had the money left in the SMS to afford him. Most, if not all other teams already had a MLB and had spent most of their SMS room. Getting Bighill wasn't great GM'ing. It was mostly luck.

This year, we made him the highest paid defensive player in the league and found him even more money by getting him an off season job. That's good work.

We may have a great place to play, but luck and money are bigger reasons why Bighill is in Winnipeg.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: booch on March 12, 2019, 04:32:02 PM
when a talent such as Bighill comes available, and it would be a an upgrade over what you already have, then you do what you have to to bring them aboard...just because several teams had a guy slotted in at MLB doesn't mean they were not interested, or couldn't make it work..Biggie came here based on multiple factors not because he was limited in choice.

Save for Cgy and the ratio thing having Singleton every other team would have killed to land him...plain and simple


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 12, 2019, 04:35:01 PM
when a talent such as Bighill comes available, and it would be a an upgrade over what you already have, then you do what you have to to bring them aboard...just because several teams had a guy slotted in at MLB doesn't mean they were not interested, or couldn't make it work..Biggie came here based on multiple factors not because he was limited in choice.

Save for Cgy and the ratio thing having Singleton every other team would have killed to land him...plain and simple

When a player like Bighill came available I am quite certain there were 5 teams minimum calling his agent. Even if you have to make room after the fact to comply with SMS.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 12, 2019, 04:36:39 PM
Bighill came available late. If Durant hadn't taken his bonus and retired, we wouldn't have had the money left in the SMS to afford him. Most, if not all other teams already had a MLB and had spent most of their SMS room. Getting Bighill wasn't great GM'ing. It was mostly luck.

This year, we made him the highest paid defensive player in the league and found him even more money by getting him an off season job. That's good work.

We may have a great place to play, but luck and money are bigger reasons why Bighill is in Winnipeg.

For most players I would agree with you. However, when a stud like Bighill let's it be known he is interested in a return to the CFL you make room for him. Durant retiring had nothing to do with us signing Bighill. We would have made the room for him no matter what. Other teams would have done the same.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: TBURGESS on March 12, 2019, 04:39:45 PM
Bighill's first choice was likely BC. They didn't have either the money or the need at MLB. If they did, we likely don't even get a chance to bid. We had the biggest need and money to spare. I doubt there were 4 other teams that had both.

Durant's salary off the SMS was huge. Without it, we wouldn't have had the SMS room available to pay Bighill what he was worth.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on March 12, 2019, 04:43:35 PM
Bighill's first choice was likely BC. They didn't have either the money or the need at MLB. If they did, we likely don't even get a chance to bid. We had the biggest need and money to spare. I doubt there were 4 other teams that had both.

Durant's salary off the SMS was huge. Without it, we wouldn't have had the SMS room available to pay Bighill what he was worth.

I mean, we could have always made room but I'm sure Durant's decision made finding the money easier and less disruptive.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: TBURGESS on March 12, 2019, 04:45:04 PM
I mean, we could have always made room but I'm sure Durant's decision made finding the money easier and less disruptive.
People keep saying that, but the only way to make room is to cut players who are making above the league minimum. Wild? Leggett? Who else comes to mind?


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on March 12, 2019, 04:48:14 PM
People keep saying that, but the only way to make room is to cut players who are making above the league minimum. Wild? Leggett? Who else comes to mind?

I dunno - it's getting pretty hypothetical. Either of the choices may have been made considering neither are with the team anymore and could have forced Walters' hand earlier. There have got to be other imports not on league minimum but it's impossible to say. Perhaps the new CBA will allow for some SMS info to be shared.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 12, 2019, 04:52:21 PM
When a player like Bighill came available I am quite certain there were 5 teams minimum calling his agent. Even if you have to make room after the fact to comply with SMS.

If that happens in February that's probably true. When it happens just before the beginning of TC on May 19, it's beyond likely. Then SMS and actual need at MLB come into play.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: theaardvark on March 12, 2019, 04:54:35 PM
Bighill's first choice was likely BC. They didn't have either the money or the need at MLB. If they did, we likely don't even get a chance to bid. We had the biggest need and money to spare. I doubt there were 4 other teams that had both.

Durant's salary off the SMS was huge. Without it, we wouldn't have had the SMS room available to pay Bighill what he was worth.

Not sure BC couldn't make room, but pretty sure team 100 puts Bighill at WIL... so while family makes BC #1 option, not sure he wanted to be WIL...

Bighill mentioned respect for O'Shea repeatedly, and wanting to play for him.  There is no doubt WPG was far ahead of BC in "power rankings" when he signed here.  Especially with his addition.

Landing him WAS good GM'ing.  Keeping him here was even better...


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 12, 2019, 05:16:15 PM
Not sure BC couldn't make room, but pretty sure team 100 puts Bighill at WIL... so while family makes BC #1 option, not sure he wanted to be WIL...

Bighill mentioned respect for O'Shea repeatedly, and wanting to play for him.  There is no doubt WPG was far ahead of BC in "power rankings" when he signed here.  Especially with his addition.

Landing him WAS good GM'ing.  Keeping him here was even better...

That and WIL is not where you spend $175K. So even if BC had SMS room ( doubtful ) it was not a practical fit at that point in time.

Ditto for Calgary with Singleton, Montreal with Muamba etc

So if Durel Williams become available this May 19 he may get many inquires. However how many teams will have $25OK+ SMS available and / or the need for a receiver with his talent?

Obviously he'd be an upgrade on any team over some other receiver on an AR. That doesn't mean he gets 9 offers either.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 12, 2019, 05:30:00 PM
People keep saying that, but the only way to make room is to cut players who are making above the league minimum. Wild? Leggett? Who else comes to mind?

A lot come to mind actually. Okpalaugo alone would have paid for Bighill. Had Durant not retired he too could have been a likely candidate. Other teams would make room by cutting their current MLB and maybe another vet. To get an Adam Bighill, there are plenty of vets around the league that could have been cleared out to make room.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 12, 2019, 05:31:05 PM
If that happens in February that's probably true. When it happens just before the beginning of TC on May 19, it's beyond likely. Then SMS and actual need at MLB come into play.

SMS is not counted until the end of the season. Lots of ways for GMs to create SMS room for the right player.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 12, 2019, 06:41:04 PM
SMS is not counted until the end of the season. Lots of ways for GMs to create SMS room for the right player.

That's obvious but the budget and plan are projected.  The right player depends on a teams needs and you're over valuing the needs for a MLB cross the CFL at that point in time.

You think the Stamps were going to cut Singleton? Lions cut Elimimian to add Bighill going into TC? It didn't happen and was never going to happen.

Which CFL do you think made a significant effort and contract offer to get Bighill? Which team had a big need at MLB besides Winnipeg?

Don't you think JSK was the right player for Winnipeg? Even a very talented player needs to fit into both the need and the SMS.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: kkc60 on March 12, 2019, 06:55:23 PM
A lot come to mind actually. Okpalaugo alone would have paid for Bighill. Had Durant not retired he too could have been a likely candidate. Other teams would make room by cutting their current MLB and maybe another vet. To get an Adam Bighill, there are plenty of vets around the league that could have been cleared out to make room.
If Durant didn't retire I highly doubt he would have gotten cut. MOS loves his vets


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: TBURGESS on March 12, 2019, 07:24:00 PM
If Durant didn't retire I highly doubt he would have gotten cut. MOS loves his vets
I can't imagine us cutting Durant last year. The plan was to go into the season with an experienced backup. Once Nichols went down, Durant would have become the starter, not a guy we'd be interested in cutting.

Assuming Durant didn't quit and that the vet players already had been paid their bonus money, then we would have had to get rid of 2 or 3 of them to make up for Bighill's salary. 20-20 hindsight tells us that it would have been worth it, but I'm not sure that Walters/MOS would have agreed at the time.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 14, 2019, 10:38:59 AM
I can't imagine us cutting Durant last year. The plan was to go into the season with an experienced backup. Once Nichols went down, Durant would have become the starter, not a guy we'd be interested in cutting.

Assuming Durant didn't quit and that the vet players already had been paid their bonus money, then we would have had to get rid of 2 or 3 of them to make up for Bighill's salary. 20-20 hindsight tells us that it would have been worth it, but I'm not sure that Walters/MOS would have agreed at the time.

I think we would have signed Bighill at 175k no matter what. Remember, we were pursuing Henoc before Durant flaked out.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 14, 2019, 10:41:27 AM
Bighill himself said he had fielded offers from multiple teams before deciding on Winnipeg.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 14, 2019, 02:38:58 PM
Bighill himself said he had fielded offers from multiple teams before deciding on Winnipeg.

What would you expect him to say?  Offers and being competitive are different issues. I have no doubt that the culture in Winnipeg was a factor but it's never going to be the only one.

Ask Loffler, JSK and Chungh about that. They got " offers " from Winnipeg too.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: booch on March 14, 2019, 03:54:17 PM
What would you expect him to say?  Offers and being competitive are different issues. I have no doubt that the culture in Winnipeg was a factor but it's never going to be the only one.

Ask Loffler, JSK and Chungh about that. They got " offers " from Winnipeg too.

Yeah...but when the offers of $$ get ridiculous..well then the culture thing is moot...and in Chungh I think he just wanted to finally go back home...If Loffler was offered 140k in Montreal and we were prepared to 130..135 for example I bet he stays, same with JSK...But when e team like Montreal gets stupid and offers 30 or 40 grand more than what we would have, and most likely any other team, then a guy will bolt...same with JSK...Edm had a budget of more $$ for that position...and when it climbed over 15k difference...he bolted...but i bet if we were within 10k or so...he would have stayed


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 14, 2019, 04:11:07 PM
Yeah...but when the offers of $$ get ridiculous..well then the culture thing is moot...and in Chungh I think he just wanted to finally go back home...If Loffler was offered 140k in Montreal and we were prepared to 130..135 for example I bet he stays, same with JSK...But when e team like Montreal gets stupid and offers 30 or 40 grand more than what we would have, and most likely any other team, then a guy will bolt...same with JSK...Edm had a budget of more $$ for that position...and when it climbed over 15k difference...he bolted...but i bet if we were within 10k or so...he would have stayed

Exactly. Bombers had more of a need for a MLB when Bighill became available. Circumstances put us in a favorable position to make the best offer in order to get him to sign here.

I wouldn't say we overpaid him but his other offers may have been not as favorable for him. Many posters felt he'd immediately sign in BC but it was clear they had less need and possible were in more of an SMS position than Wpg as an example.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 14, 2019, 04:19:30 PM
Exactly. Bombers had more of a need for a MLB when Bighill became available. Circumstances put us in a favorable position to make the best offer in order to get him to sign here.

I wouldn't say we overpaid him but his other offers may have been not as favorable for him. Many posters felt he'd immediately sign in BC but it was clear they had less need and possible were in more of an SMS position than Wpg as an example.

175k is an absolute bargain for a player of Bighill's impact level. You will never in a 1000 years convince me there was no other team in this league willing to pay a MLBer of his calibre in that neighborhood last year. We might have been the highest bidder but it wouldn't have been by much. He instantly represented a HUGE upgrade for many teams at a low price for his talent level. Just because a team already has a MLBer under contract doesn't mean they are not willing to upgrade if the price is right....and with Bighill the price was right. The only teams who should have been out on him are BC, Calgary, and Montreal. To every other team he is a huge and affordable upgrade.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 14, 2019, 04:51:59 PM
Yeah...but when the offers of $$ get ridiculous..well then the culture thing is moot...and in Chungh I think he just wanted to finally go back home...If Loffler was offered 140k in Montreal and we were prepared to 130..135 for example I bet he stays, same with JSK...But when e team like Montreal gets stupid and offers 30 or 40 grand more than what we would have, and most likely any other team, then a guy will bolt...same with JSK...Edm had a budget of more $$ for that position...and when it climbed over 15k difference...he bolted...but i bet if we were within 10k or so...he would have stayed

I understand losing Loffler and Chungh at the salaries they were offered but I'm really PO'ed that they lost JSK over an extra $20,000 when he indicated he wanted to stay with the team and there is plenty of SMS left over to pursue a top-end receiver, which they may or may not attain.  What's the point in developing a player from rookie to star level if they chose not to retain him over a $20,000 difference, that's peanuts.  Oh good, let's start all over again with Wilson!!!


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on March 14, 2019, 05:09:58 PM
I understand losing Loffler and Chungh at the salaries they were offered but I'm really PO'ed that they lost JSK over an extra $20,000 when he indicated he wanted to stay with the team and there is plenty of SMS left over to pursue a top-end receiver, which they may or may not attain.  What's the point in developing a player from rookie to star level if they chose not to retain him over a $20,000 difference, that's peanuts.  Oh good, let's start all over again with Wilson!!!

If those numbers and circumstances are true then that's a pretty bad call. Who reported that?


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 14, 2019, 05:14:46 PM
If those numbers and circumstances are true then that's a pretty bad call. Who reported that?

I believe he signed in Edmonton for $140,000, which is a reasonable payment for a player of his calibre.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 14, 2019, 05:22:08 PM
175k is an absolute bargain for a player of Bighill's impact level. You will never in a 1000 years convince me there was no other team in this league willing to pay a MLBer of his calibre in that neighborhood last year. We might have been the highest bidder but it wouldn't have been by much. He instantly represented a HUGE upgrade for many teams at a low price for his talent level. Just because a team already has a MLBer under contract doesn't mean they are not willing to upgrade if the price is right....and with Bighill the price was right. The only teams who should have been out on him are BC, Calgary, and Montreal. To every other team he is a huge and affordable upgrade.

Singleton, Elimimian and Muamba going into 2018 were in the same calibre as Bighill. Two of those MLB's had the advantage of being ratio advantages. Singleton and Muamba had as good or better seasonal stats.

Even if you feel Bighill was better, those 3 teams were unlikely to be in hot pursuit of Bighill.

$175K might have been a bargain per se but that still doesn't mean teams had a need for any LB that was greater than needs elsewhere on their roster as it related to SMS.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Jesse on March 14, 2019, 05:22:27 PM
I believe he signed in Edmonton for $140,000, which is a reasonable payment for a player of his calibre.

But with what we're paying Bighill, we probably have a tight budget on the remaining LB's.

JSK is playing on a reasonable contract for a player of his calibre, but we need someone cheap.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 14, 2019, 05:29:05 PM
But with what we're paying Bighill, we probably have a tight budget on the remaining LB's.

JSK is playing on a reasonable contract for a player of his calibre, but we need someone cheap.

IMO it wasn't really a matter of not having SMS for JSK. It was deciding that from a position point of view it was more than should be paid. I would argue that it was too much to pay JSK IMO.

It's been discussed at length that WIL should be one of the easier positions to fill on defense. Financially we could have paid more to retain JSK and not spent money to get Jefferson.

Money question aside, which of those two players would you rather have if you can only have one? I'm taking Jefferson as going to have more impact.

No doubt I would have liked to keep JSK as well. OTOH we were balancing our needs across several roster positions and how to best spend SMS.

We may have money left in our SMS which may allow us to sign a top receiver returning from the NFL. Of course that's a gamble. Can we fill our WIL with the next JSK for ELC or close and will we spend the SMS on a top player elsewhere?

Don't know the answer to either question today.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 14, 2019, 06:36:19 PM
I think that a lot of people are viewing JSK with blue goggles on. He is a good player but certainly not to the point of being indispensable.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 14, 2019, 06:37:50 PM
Singleton, Elimimian and Muamba going into 2018 were in the same calibre as Bighill. Two of those MLB's had the advantage of being ratio advantages. Singleton and Muamba had as good or better seasonal stats.

Even if you feel Bighill was better, those 3 teams were unlikely to be in hot pursuit of Bighill.

$175K might have been a bargain per se but that still doesn't mean teams had a need for any LB that was greater than needs elsewhere on their roster as it related to SMS.

I agree 3 teams were not in the hunt for Bighill. Like I said, there were likely 5 teams inquiring on him including us and if they weren't they are idiots especially at 175k.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Jockitch on March 14, 2019, 07:04:15 PM
From last years TC ..... I remember Myles White looking great & thought of him as a perfect replacement for Dressler.
See that the 28 yr. old is now a FA, after 14 catches with the Argos over 7 games ......... minimal cost for another look.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: booch on March 14, 2019, 07:29:47 PM
JSK though showing to be pretty good, I don't think warranted a 140k salary yet...most teams have a number for the starting linebacking unit...db's etc that they want to work within so factor in Biggies contract..possibly Fenner at SAM at just over 110k..or Gaitor at a bit less, then JSK 's wants based over budget didn't work for us so you cut bait.

Let's see how he fares in Edmonton without Biggie patrolling with him before we say it was a major gaff not paying him. When you look at what the defense did in his absence when he got hurt, they performed just as good or better than they had all year, didn't miss a beat and that was with Biggie playing hurt too...so was that the Bighill factor making JSK look really good and reaping benefits of it..and same with Wilson/Wild as replacements, or was it the replacements were just as good/adequate at a lesser $$ value?

I think it's a combination of both to be honest and we will not even notice a difference really. I also think that Fenner was not 100 percent most of year and will be back to his 2017 form where it was argued that he was the best SAM in the league. He offers a bit more physicality and size than Gaitor and is 2 years younger, tho either or are a nice option

If things stand as they are now and we start with a unit of Wilson..Biggie and Gaitor/Fenner rotating in I won't lose any sleep over that.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 14, 2019, 08:00:44 PM
I agree 3 teams were not in the hunt for Bighill. Like I said, there were likely 5 teams inquiring on him including us and if they weren't they are idiots especially at 175k.

We're going to agree to disagree. I'm glad he ended up in Wpg but need and timing were big factors in our favor.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 14, 2019, 08:14:46 PM
From last years TC ..... I remember Myles White looking great & thought of him as a perfect replacement for Dressler.
See that the 28 yr. old is now a FA, after 14 catches with the Argos over 7 games ......... minimal cost for another look.

I'd like to think the organization could do better than a retread.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 14, 2019, 09:47:03 PM
I'd like to think the organization could do better than a retread.


Maybe this is the year we do that. The door is open and it should be a free competition in TC. In theory at least.

I have some fear that O'Shea will stick with one of the PR players from 2018 regardless of what TC and pre season show.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: dd on March 14, 2019, 11:00:42 PM
Singleton, Elimimian and Muamba going into 2018 were in the same calibre as Bighill. Two of those MLB's had the advantage of being ratio advantages. Singleton and Muamba had as good or better seasonal stats.

Even if you feel Bighill was better, those 3 teams were unlikely to be in hot pursuit of Bighill.

$175K might have been a bargain per se but that still doesn't mean teams had a need for any LB that was greater than needs elsewhere on their roster as it related to SMS.
I'll say Singleton is the same calibre as Biggie or visa versa, but Muamba, no. Yes, his tackle numbers were up there, but that's because he played on a very crappy team whose defense was on the field 3/4 of the game.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 15, 2019, 02:12:22 PM
I'll say Singleton is the same calibre as Biggie or visa versa, but Muamba, no. Yes, his tackle numbers were up there, but that's because he played on a very crappy team whose defense was on the field 3/4 of the game.

Muamba still had the advantage of ratio implication. IMO some posters are still annoyed about his attitude and as such want to diss his actual performance. In any case the Als didn't need a MLB.

While Sherritt and Woods weren't at the same level of the 3 I mentioned it didn't appear they would be in the hunt for a MLB.

IMO the Riders and Redblacks would have been the only other team besides the Bombers in the the real hunt for Bighill when he came available.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: theaardvark on March 15, 2019, 02:14:45 PM
I think the biggest factor in not signing JSK was the injury factor.  He couldn't work out for NFL teams, so he couldn't work out for us.  Pretty sure there isn't a team that had a better idea of his current recovery status and long term prognosis than we did.  When you sign a player coming off injury and have no full speed snaps to judge him on, do you pay top end of the range?  I don't think so...


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on March 15, 2019, 02:44:55 PM
I think the biggest factor in not signing JSK was the injury factor.  He couldn't work out for NFL teams, so he couldn't work out for us.  Pretty sure there isn't a team that had a better idea of his current recovery status and long term prognosis than we did.  When you sign a player coming off injury and have no full speed snaps to judge him on, do you pay top end of the range?  I don't think so...

What are you talking about? The severity of injury notwithstanding, he literally couldn't work out for us because the CBA doesn't allow you to work out players under contract after the season. He was signed on opening Free Agency day and I'm sure he wasn't sitting in Edmonton waiting to work out for them either. I agree that we had a good idea of his value because he played the year here, but it doesn't detract from the fact that he signed a contract well within the realm of what a player of his caliber is likely worth.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Jesse on March 15, 2019, 02:49:53 PM
I think the biggest factor in not signing JSK was the injury factor.  He couldn't work out for NFL teams, so he couldn't work out for us.  Pretty sure there isn't a team that had a better idea of his current recovery status and long term prognosis than we did.  When you sign a player coming off injury and have no full speed snaps to judge him on, do you pay top end of the range?  I don't think so...

I don't think that was relevant.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: booch on March 15, 2019, 02:54:16 PM
plain and simple...the powers that be here decide a value on that position, and were comfortable going a different direction if JSK didn't agree with them and that they could fill it just as good or better at their allotted value..or less...and I agree with that mindset, and the ability to fill it..WIL..much like wide side corner back here are easiest defensive positions to fill..


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 15, 2019, 03:34:26 PM
I still think it was a mistake to let him walk. He and Bighill were awesome together last season.

Maybe this is the year we do that. The door is open and it should be a free competition in TC. In theory at least.

I have some fear that O'Shea will stick with one of the PR players from 2018 regardless of what TC and pre season show.

That seems like an irrational fear to me. I suppose time will tell, though.

I think the biggest factor in not signing JSK was the injury factor.  He couldn't work out for NFL teams, so he couldn't work out for us.  Pretty sure there isn't a team that had a better idea of his current recovery status and long term prognosis than we did.  When you sign a player coming off injury and have no full speed snaps to judge him on, do you pay top end of the range?  I don't think so...

What a ridiculous - and ignorant - comment to make.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 15, 2019, 03:40:34 PM
We let JSK go because we gave Bighill a hefty raise, JSK was looking for a big raise, we had Kyrie Wilson who is almost as good, and because WIL is one of the easier defensive positions to recruit. Simple as that. When you have a guy like Biggie who is exceptional sideline to sideline you can make WIL a SMS position.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: theaardvark on March 15, 2019, 03:42:54 PM
What are you talking about? The severity of injury notwithstanding, he literally couldn't work out for us because the CBA doesn't allow you to work out players under contract after the season. He was signed on opening Free Agency day and I'm sure he wasn't sitting in Edmonton waiting to work out for them either. I agree that we had a good idea of his value because he played the year here, but it doesn't detract from the fact that he signed a contract well within the realm of what a player of his caliber is likely worth.

He signed with a team who intends to play him at MLB, not WIL, a position which in most rosters' budgets is a lot higher.  Yes, I agree.  That notwithstanding, are you saying that his injury was of absolutely no concern for any team considering signing him?


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 15, 2019, 03:57:06 PM
We let JSK go because we gave Bighill a hefty raise, JSK was looking for a big raise, we had Kyrie Wilson who is almost as good, and because WIL is one of the easier defensive positions to recruit. Simple as that. When you have a guy like Biggie who is exceptional sideline to sideline you can make WIL a SMS position.

While I agree Bighill's presence is more significant, what leads you to believe Wilson is "almost as good" as Santos-Knox? Is there even a sample size?


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: booch on March 15, 2019, 04:00:16 PM
not a big one no...but the defense performed just as goo as with JSK when we replaced him...and again, you can't discount the fact that Biggie is going to take focus away from whomever is at Will to allow them to make plays, even more so now with the Jeff's coming off the edges now...probably freeing up even more space for our WILL to make plays..


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: the paw on March 15, 2019, 04:12:47 PM
He signed with a team who intends to play him at MLB, not WIL, a position which in most rosters' budgets is a lot higher.  Yes, I agree.  That notwithstanding, are you saying that his injury was of absolutely no concern for any team considering signing him?


Are you just making stuff up again?  The Esks have Tank Reed and Larry Dean, both experienced MLB's on the roster.  What makes you think the Esks are planning on playing Santos-Knox out of position at MLB, when they have signed these two guys?  Especially Dean, who was #25 of the top free agents and a divisional all-star. 


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: dd on March 15, 2019, 04:17:48 PM
not a big one no...but the defense performed just as goo as with JSK when we replaced him...and again, you can't discount the fact that Biggie is going to take focus away from whomever is at Will to allow them to make plays, even more so now with the Jeff's coming off the edges now...probably freeing up even more space for our WILL to make plays..
JSK's most effective play last year, was when we blitzed both Biggie and JSK, and the defense always picked up Biggie and JSK came free.....same thing will happen this year with whomever we put in, and yes, the defense performed just as well with JSK out of the lineup as when he was in. He was a high energy, positive player, but him moving on is the least of our concerns, it is literally a non issue.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 15, 2019, 04:25:22 PM
I still think it was a mistake to let him walk. He and Bighill were awesome together last season.

That seems like an irrational fear to me. I suppose time will tell, though.

What a ridiculous - and ignorant - comment to make.

I dunno. It's seemed in the past that's the way O'Shea operates. He makes decisions before TC. For example Hurl was going to be the starting MLB regardless of what we saw in TC going into 2017. At the beginning of 2016 we had Victor Harris starting at safety before his injury and Loffler starting.

Others argued that TC would be an open competition while I argued the " fix " was in.

I said that before TC each season that's what I expected we'd see happening as far as winning the starters role before TC started.

For 2019 ( barring injuries ) I expect Wilson will start at WIL. I expect 1 or more of Washington, Nelson or Lawler will start at receiver. I doubt we'll see a rookie CFL'er starting at the beginning of the season.

Arguments will be made that they've earned the right to start because they've been here and know the playbook. Blah, blah, blah.

We'll probably have a rookie import DT starting and maybe a DI or 2 at DB and LB since we don't have any carryover's from 2018 PR. Maybe Humes is a DI at DB.

So as you said, we'll see. Of course we may sign some CFL veterans that may change these thoughts. However that's what I'm expecting to see. Pure rookies will be put on PR to start the season.



Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: GCn19 on March 15, 2019, 05:49:53 PM
While I agree Bighill's presence is more significant, what leads you to believe Wilson is "almost as good" as Santos-Knox? Is there even a sample size?

He looked pretty good in the playoffs last year for us. Certainly not out of place at all. I was pleasantly surprised how effective he was after riding the pine for so long. Our defence didn't miss a beat with him in the lineup. Sure he has to prove he is consistent but imo he has demonstrated that he can certainly be a good WIL if he wins the job.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 15, 2019, 05:55:17 PM
He looked pretty good in the playoffs last year for us. Certainly not out of place at all. I was pleasantly surprised how effective he was after riding the pine for so long. Our defence didn't miss a beat with him in the lineup. Sure he has to prove he is consistent but imo he has demonstrated that he can certainly be a good WIL if he wins the job.

The problem with that is that the Riders have no offense and the Stamps had many injuries on offense. That has to be taken into account when assessing the sum or individual performances on defense during the playoffs.

What I saw was him in chase mode too often.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: booch on March 15, 2019, 06:04:11 PM
The problem with that is that the Riders have no offense and the Stamps had many injuries on offense. That has to be taken into account when assessing the sum or individual performances on defense during the playoffs.

What I saw was him in chase mode too often.
On the flip then if he was so weak...should the Riders' perhaps not been able to exploit that?...or the defense look weaker?
Also CGY had BLM..starting RB Jackson..Mathews..Rogers..Ambles..Durant...hardly a crappy offence and a poor excuse to say a player played well...especially in play-offs...that crappy offense seemed to do just fine dispatching Ottawa..for more points against.

I recall seeing JSK in chase mode a lot too during the season...does that mean he was inferior?
Wilson never got exposed..had a sack...several pressures...big tackle for a loss...was solid on ST's...


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 15, 2019, 06:10:43 PM
On the flip then if he was so weak...should the Riders' perhaps not been able to exploit that?...or the defense look weaker?
Also CGY had BLM..starting RB Jackson..Mathews..Rogers..Ambles..Durant...hardly a crappy offence and a poor excuse to say a player played well...especially in play-offs...that crappy offense seemed to do just fine dispatching Ottawa..for more points against.

I recall seeing JSK in chase mode a lot too during the season...does that mean he was inferior?
Wilson never got exposed..had a sack...several pressures...big tackle for a loss...was solid on ST's...

IMO the Riders did exploit Wilson They ran against us. The Stamps did not have all their best players available. That's a fact.

JSK and even Bighill were in chase mode at times. It's the nature of football. OTOH, they consistently made big plays during every game. That's not what I saw from Wilson. Not during the regular season games and not during the playoffs. He was MEH.

The " good " stats you mentioned were against the Riders with an inept combination of QB's. Against the Stamps he had 1 DT and 1 ST.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: booch on March 15, 2019, 06:14:27 PM
IMO the Riders did exploit Wilson. The Stamps did not have all their best players available. That's a fact.

JSK and even Bighill were in chase mode at times. It's the nature of football. OTOH, they consistently made big plays during every game. That's not what I saw from Wilson. Not during the regular season games and not during the playoffs. He was MEH.
What did the Riders do to exploit? Bridge running around on broken plays was their only real offense...hardly exploitation and not having all the best weapons..didn't seem to effect them...all year pretty much

Pretty hard to see meh play from Wilson during the regular season when he never started any games and basically played special teams in the 5 games he dressed...and none past game 6


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: Blue In BC on March 15, 2019, 06:25:44 PM
What did the Riders do to exploit? Bridge running around on broken plays was their only real offense...hardly exploitation and not having all the best weapons..didn't seem to effect them...all year pretty much

Pretty hard to see meh play from Wilson during the regular season when he never started any games and basically played special teams in the 5 games he dressed...and none past game 6

We knew the Riders couldn't throw. In theory we should have been able to stop the run more effectively and we couldn't.

Wilson was on the field for some defensive reps in the games he played. It was more than just ST duty.

Our DI LB always sees reps on defense and he was invisible.

BTW. The Stamps didn't have Daniels, Jordan or Michel. Those were their top receivers not playing.


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: dd on March 16, 2019, 01:25:21 AM
What did the Riders do to exploit? Bridge running around on broken plays was their only real offense...hardly exploitation and not having all the best weapons..didn't seem to effect them...all year pretty much

Pretty hard to see meh play from Wilson during the regular season when he never started any games and basically played special teams in the 5 games he dressed...and none past game 6
Exactly. Bridges played playground/scramble for a few yards BS that he usually does but his running alone can?t win any games and his passing game sucks. His running was more on the D line/containment more than anything else, but we were trying to pressure him into bad passing decisions so you take the good with the bad. I m not worried about our defense as much as I?m concerned about our offense?our line has some question marks and we don?t have a #1 WR?haven?t had one for a couple of years now. Dressler is well past his prime and we have to ice on. Adams is fine at #2, but we need a killer go to #1 !!


Title: Re: A Look At The Receiving Corps - Ed Tait
Post by: The Zipp on April 29, 2019, 05:18:15 PM
Some Duke Williams news...sounds like he is going to get a legit shot (and he deserves it)..

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/29/remember-duke-williams-after-buffalo-bills-dont-add-wr-2019-nfl-draft-brandon-beane-sean-mcdermott/ (https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/29/remember-duke-williams-after-buffalo-bills-dont-add-wr-2019-nfl-draft-brandon-beane-sean-mcdermott/)