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The Extra Point => Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum => Topic started by: The Zipp on January 09, 2019, 11:02:43 PM



Title: Chris Randle released today
Post by: The Zipp on January 09, 2019, 11:02:43 PM
As per twitter

Paul friesen:
#Bombers cut veteran corner Chris Randle. Outright. Realize he's maybe lost a step, but this smacks of freeing up $. Possibly for Bighill.

Ed tait:

The #Bombers release veteran CB Chris Randle @ChrisRandle_Ad. One of my faves to deal with and a true pro.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: The Zipp on January 09, 2019, 11:05:54 PM
WINNIPEG, MB., January 9, 2019 - The Winnipeg Blue Bombers today announce the club has released international cornerback Chris Randle.
 
Statement from Winnipeg Blue Bombers General Manager Kyle Walters:
 
"Roster decisions like these are never easy to make. Some are harder than others, and this certainly was a tough one. Chris has been the definition of a consummate professional in every facet of his game, both on and off the field, since we acquired him. Our organization cannot thank him enough for everything he has given us, and we wish him and his family the best moving forward."
 
Randle has spent the past five seasons in Winnipeg after being acquired in a trade prior to the 2014 season. He appeared in 75 games for the Bombers during that time, recording 217 defensive tackles, 45 special teams tackles, two sacks, 12 interceptions, and three forced fumbles.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: thunderNlightning on January 09, 2019, 11:29:02 PM
Clearly has lost a step and as tough as it is to see him go, he battled for this team and we thank him. Who?s out there in free agency as a corner we could pursue? That position is scary for a raw rookie to start at.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: GCn19 on January 09, 2019, 11:36:34 PM
Randle Island no more. :'( He had a poor season last year but I hope he catches on somewhere else.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 1chad on January 09, 2019, 11:39:13 PM
Sorry to see him go.  Classy player :(


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Knocker42 on January 09, 2019, 11:50:01 PM
Time beats them all.  Sorry to lose a class guy and a one-time rock on D.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: GCn19 on January 09, 2019, 11:52:33 PM
That's a ton of locker room leadership walking out the door too.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: dd on January 10, 2019, 12:05:22 AM
Timing is odd on this. We must be going after a younger, cheaper free agent , which is fine, I just would have signed the FA first then released Randal as no way a raw rookie starts there


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: blue girl on January 10, 2019, 12:07:29 AM
I'm not surprised by this. He had lost a step and hopefully this frees up some money for Bighill.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Jesse on January 10, 2019, 12:12:04 AM
Tough one, for sure. He's been one of our best players during the Miller/Walters/O'Shea era. Probably had his best season two years ago and then didn't look quite right last season.

For a GM to be successful though, you have to be to cut ties with those high paid vets before they start costing you games.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 10, 2019, 12:30:46 AM
The business side of pro sports is never pretty....thanks Chris for your leadership over the past 5 seasons with the Blue!   Good luck in your future endeavours!


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: kkc60 on January 10, 2019, 12:34:38 AM
Wow. Was surprised but he didn't play on to the level 150000$ earns


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on January 10, 2019, 12:48:35 AM
Tough one. Randle has been awesome for us but he was definitely losing a step last year. Hard to pay shutdown cover corner money for a player who can't quite do it consistently anymore. I don't think it has much to do with Bighill.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: TBURGESS on January 10, 2019, 01:08:14 AM
****! One of my favs. I'll miss him. He was beat more last year than in years before, but I didn't think he was easily expendable.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: kkc60 on January 10, 2019, 01:27:43 AM
Could always re-sign him for less in FA if the market isn't too hot and he would be open to coming back


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 10, 2019, 02:00:51 AM
Wow. Was surprised but he didn't play on to the level 150000$ earns

Where did you get that number?  I'd be surprised if DB's are earning that much money in the CFL, there's a lot of competition for those jobs.

I'm guessing Randals replacement is already in house and they can avoid F.A., Humes, Fenner or one of the new DB's Pruitt or Patterson.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: blue newt on January 10, 2019, 02:29:07 AM
This one surprises me.  He seemed like such a strong team leader, and while his play wasn't off the charts last year, I certainly never saw it as what kept the D back. 

Walters had better have a great plan for corner, because you know if the replacement stinks up the joint, this decision will haunt him a bit.



Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on January 10, 2019, 02:41:57 AM
I'm not surprised by this. He had lost a step and hopefully this frees up some money for Bighill.
this is what I immediately thought.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: the paw on January 10, 2019, 02:59:12 AM
****! One of my favs. I'll miss him. He was beat more last year than in years before, but I didn't think he was easily expendable.

Great player, but the time is right.  He could probably play another year or two by flopping over to field corner, but given his contract it?s better to break clean.

If he wants to keep playing, he might find a role as a DI veteran somewhere, like Lin-J Shell did. The early release gives him a jump on free agency to explore the option. 


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 10, 2019, 03:32:34 AM
I'm very surprised by this development. He didn't have a great 2018 but his presence in the backfield and in the locker room can't be understated. He seemed to be a fan favourite during his tenure, too.

But money talks and that's the nature of the business. All the best in your future endeavours, Chris!


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 10, 2019, 03:53:11 AM
he still led the team with pass knock downs last year, 5th overall in the league... does that say anything?


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: theaardvark on January 10, 2019, 03:57:31 AM
Must have been a bonus coming...

Kinda sucks ti lose him, but tough decisions need to be made.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: dd on January 10, 2019, 04:32:13 AM
he still led the team with pass knock downs last year, 5th overall in the league... does that say anything?
It does to me?the man can still play. But as others have said, this was likely a financial decision, which I hope doesn?t bite us in the end, as he played the toughest cover spots on the field and did well at it


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: BLUEBOMBER on January 10, 2019, 05:37:12 AM
Good player but got too expensive.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 10, 2019, 05:59:05 AM
Bummer.  But I understand it.  "What would Wally do?"  Wally would have let him go too.  Definitely one of my faves on the D, and I hope he either goes on to succeed on another team, or, like someone already suggested, we snap him up cheap off the couch in FA if it turns out we do need him or we want some depth.

However: no Leggett, no Randle (and probably more to come)... '19 Bomber D won't quite feel the same.  Sad to see the '15-'18 era fading away (to a degree).


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: blue_or_die on January 10, 2019, 01:17:30 PM
Bummer.  But I understand it.  "What would Wally do?"  Wally would have let him go too.  Definitely one of my faves on the D, and I hope he either goes on to succeed on another team, or, like someone already suggested, we snap him up cheap off the couch in FA if it turns out we do need him or we want some depth.

However: no Leggett, no Randle (and probably more to come)... '19 Bomber D won't quite feel the same.  Sad to see the '15-'18 era fading away (to a degree).


Yeah, I remember in 2014 after a hot start, Willy got injured and our season faded quickly from there. All I can remember was being super excited about Randle and Leggett as becoming huge parts of our core D, and that's exactly what happened. All great things must come to an end.

All the best in your future, Chris!!!

We may now have a problem at both corners  :-\


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: booch on January 10, 2019, 01:31:40 PM
value over worth...he just wasn't worth what he costs now...he is 30...time to make the move, but always tough when it is with a true pro and dedicated Bomber..150k can go a long way elsewhere to keep the defence a strong spot (JSK/bIGGIE/jEFFCOAT)

Also corner is one of the easiest...if not easiest defensive positions to fill on a CFL defense with a rookie American....and I have every reason to believe Alexander will be back this year to hold down one of the corner spots, and he is/has turned into a pretty consistently dominant corner..


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: bigbuff33 on January 10, 2019, 01:40:47 PM
Bombers have to free up money to sign guys like Bighill and Lofler...
Randle is a class act, but age and money were against him...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Ridermania on January 10, 2019, 02:18:20 PM

Darrin Bauming
@DarrinBauming
 ? 12h

Replying to @DarrinBauming
As far as the roster implication of the move, the #Bombers have a lot to consider, with more than just Adam Bighill to try to re-ink. Loffler, Alexander, Jeffcoat, and Santos-Knox are due healthy raises, while many others (just on defence) need new deals.

Darrin Bauming
@DarrinBauming

Randle made $135k in 2018, including bonuses, and was set to make more in 2019. It was no doubt a tough decision for GM Kyle Walters, but the football business is and has always been about cost-benefit. I have little doubt Randle will garner interest elsewhere in the @CFL.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on January 10, 2019, 02:38:09 PM
Very good player but in the SMS world this happens. I wish him the best wherever his future takes him.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 10, 2019, 03:20:33 PM
Great player, but the time is right.  He could probably play another year or two by flopping over to field corner, but given his contract it?s better to break clean.

If he wants to keep playing, he might find a role as a DI veteran somewhere, like Lin-J Shell did. The early release gives him a jump on free agency to explore the option. 

Money aside I was hoping we'd flip him over to field corner and add a top CB on his normal spot.

Obviously his salary didn't allow that. With Fogg, Alexander and Loffler also potential free agents, this is an interesting decision.

I understand it but this is still a surprise.

Breaux is a potential free agent.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: drahgon on January 10, 2019, 04:55:07 PM
Similar situation to what happened with Jovon Johnson years before. Cut for salary cap reasons and he went on to have productive years with other teams.

I liked Randall, was a great player for our team and wish him the best in the future. The business side of pro-sports is tough.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 10, 2019, 04:56:36 PM
A lot of D-leadership has left the dressing room in the last few years, Westerman, Leggett and now Randle were all leaders and spokesman for the D, they **** well better re-sign Bighill.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: buckzumhoff on January 10, 2019, 05:04:59 PM
They should have kept him.  If they try to put someone at his position for cheaper salary ,signing Bighill isn't going to help the secondary .they pay Medlock one of the highest and they cut a veteran who isn't the highest paid.  Wrong move at this time of year. Maybe they will start the younger players and play Cooper and Sayles as starters.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 10, 2019, 05:05:09 PM
No doubt Randle can still play and I expect he will sign elsewhere before TC. It's a tough business but we all understand the WHY of the decision.

Good luck to him where ever he ends up. He was a consummate player in Winnipeg.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 10, 2019, 06:37:24 PM
the whole 'value over money' pill is hard to swallow when you're paying Nichols $450K... you could stock the cupboard with that kind of coin...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: blue newt on January 10, 2019, 06:50:52 PM
The more I think of this, the more I can't help but think that we really need leadership and skill in our secondary, and we had that with Randle.  I understand needing more money elsewhere, but surely Randle held more value than Fenner, and how much were we paying him to sit on Specials?

Hoping the team has an ace up their sleeve for that position...



Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: booch on January 10, 2019, 06:56:53 PM
the whole 'value over money' pill is hard to swallow when you're paying Nichols $450K... you could stock the cupboard with that kind of coin...

Yes and no...would you prefer to spend that on a Collaros..or Glenn...or Jennings...which is likely what those guys are gonna get from a few desperate teams this year...and that is truly funny...

Nichols of 2017 earned that salary..last year not so much, but I am inclined to attribute a lot of that to coming back too soon..then feeling the heat from Streveler and forcing things when he still wasn't ready...that being said...if we continue to see the same sort of sub-par stuff in the first 3-5 games, and he looks tentative and like he is still playing in mud, then he HAS to see the pine and we see how much Streveler has progressed


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 10, 2019, 07:05:06 PM
Yes and no...would you prefer to spend that on a Collaros..or Glenn...or Jennings...which is likely what those guys are gonna get from a few desperate teams this year...and that is truly funny...

Nichols of 2017 earned that salary..last year not so much, but I am inclined to attribute a lot of that to coming back too soon..then feeling the heat from Streveler and forcing things when he still wasn't ready...that being said...if we continue to see the same sort of sub-par stuff in the first 3-5 games, and he looks tentative and like he is still playing in mud, then he HAS to see the pine and we see how much Streveler has progressed

Streveler isn't going to get better sitting on the bench, or the coming in on the short game stuff... going to have to bite the bullet some time... or, give Nichols the option to restructure his deal and play more of a dual QB scheme... I know that Streveler may not be completely ready to be thrown into the fire, but, how is that different than continuing to have present a team that can't seem to get to the GC for the sake of a decent record for the year?  I'd much rather struggle for a few games/half a season and go into the playoffs with a 9-9 record but with a QB capable of winning it all for you...

I get excited every time Streve comes into the game because you never know what you may get... like last year, 2nd short, homerun to Lankford... plus, I'd rather lose the game and have a dynamic, exciting offense then continue down this road of 2nd and 7 and we throw a screen pass...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: booch on January 10, 2019, 07:10:21 PM
couldn't agree more..Nichols has to be on a short rope....Streveler learned a lot last year already and got huge amount of snaps...he is the furthest thing away from a green horn young QB as you can get...plus the offense seems to feed off him and pick their game up as well


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 10, 2019, 07:27:48 PM
the whole 'value over money' pill is hard to swallow when you're paying Nichols $450K... you could stock the cupboard with that kind of coin...

I get what you're saying and totally agree based on his abysmal 2018 season. However, it's comparatively easier to replace a DB than it is a QB.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 10, 2019, 07:34:49 PM
Streveler isn't going to get better sitting on the bench, or the coming in on the short game stuff... going to have to bite the bullet some time... or, give Nichols the option to restructure his deal and play more of a dual QB scheme... I know that Streveler may not be completely ready to be thrown into the fire, but, how is that different than continuing to have present a team that can't seem to get to the GC for the sake of a decent record for the year?  I'd much rather struggle for a few games/half a season and go into the playoffs with a 9-9 record but with a QB capable of winning it all for you...

I get excited every time Streve comes into the game because you never know what you may get... like last year, 2nd short, homerun to Lankford... plus, I'd rather lose the game and have a dynamic, exciting offense then continue down this road of 2nd and 7 and we throw a screen pass...

Not true. QB's improve and learn as back ups even in practice. They study game film on opponents etc. Players at every position do this.

It's not uncommon for OL as an example to have long development curves. They sit on the PR, IR's or as 6th or 7th OL improving as time goes by.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 10, 2019, 07:36:32 PM
I get what you're saying and totally agree based on his abysmal 2018 season. However, it's comparatively easier to replace a DB than it is a QB.

you are 100% correct but it still doesn't make it taste any better, lol...

we saw our defense make a whole sale change this year, just having visions of it reverting back to shades of 2017, or worse... if we lose Loffler, Bighill, JSK, and have already cut Randle, may not make a difference who is QB1...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 10, 2019, 07:42:20 PM
Not true. QB's improve and learn as back ups even in practice.

and some can be injected into the game right away and improve your team... think Patrick Mahomes, sophomore QB who will most likely be named the NFL MVP this year... some players you can get away with throwing them into the fire, some you can't... but, to say as a matter of practice, we don't play young QBs, that there is a specific number of years they have to carry a clipboard in order to play is just crazy stupid...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: blue_or_die on January 10, 2019, 07:46:53 PM
value over worth...he just wasn't worth what he costs now...he is 30...time to make the move, but always tough when it is with a true pro and dedicated Bomber..150k can go a long way elsewhere to keep the defence a strong spot (JSK/bIGGIE/jEFFCOAT)

Also corner is one of the easiest...if not easiest defensive positions to fill on a CFL defense with a rookie American....and I have every reason to believe Alexander will be back this year to hold down one of the corner spots, and he is/has turned into a pretty consistently dominant corner..

I have trouble agreeing with any of this. Having a "shutdown corner" is a key part to a dominant D, and I don't think you get them right away for young and cheap. I remember being quite pleased we were able to get Randle from Calgary because he'd shown to be good.

Also, isn't Alexander a better HB (which is arguably a harder position)? And if so, wouldn't we want consistency there?


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 10, 2019, 07:47:25 PM
and some can be injected into the game right away and improve your team... think Patrick Mahomes, sophomore QB who will most likely be named the NFL MVP this year... some players you can get away with throwing them into the fire, some you can't... but, to say as a matter of practice, we don't play young QBs, that there is a specific number of years they have to carry a clipboard in order to play is just crazy stupid...

Odds are that more can't than can especially at the QB position. Streveler was the 1st rookie QB in Winnipeg to start a 1st game of the season since 1968.

In fact he might have been the 1st QB period to start game 1 since 1968.

This isn't the NFL. We don't get to draft and sign QB's the NFL does in the 1st round.

Let me know when we get sign a 1st round 10th pick.

CFL history is strewn with QB's looking good early and being thrown into the fire too soon.

Need a recent name just look at Jennings.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 10, 2019, 08:01:01 PM
Odds are that more can't than can especially at the QB position. Streveler was the 1st rookie QB in Winnipeg to start a 1st game of the season since 1968.

In fact he might have been the 1st QB period to start game 1 since 1968.

This isn't the NFL. We don't get to draft and sign QB's the NFL does in the 1st round.

Let me know when we get sign a 1st round 10th pick.

oh I know and agree with you about the availability of quality QBs here, which I can't really seem to understand why that is... because I don't care who you are or what you do, $400,000 plus a year is a very significant amount of money! Afterall, I find it hard to believe that there isn't any capable QBs out there wanting to play ball... Anxious to see the quality of QB play in this new league...

Because outside of Streveler or maybe Franklin, Toronto was bad last year, I can't think of another CFL backup QB that I would even consider in lieu of Nichols...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 10, 2019, 08:05:26 PM
oh I know and agree with you about the availability of quality QBs here, which I can't really seem to understand why that is... because I don't care who you are or what you do, $400,000 plus a year is a very significant amount of money! Afterall, I find it hard to believe that there isn't any capable QBs out there wanting to play ball... Anxious to see the quality of QB play in this new league...

Because outside of Streveler or maybe Franklin, Toronto was bad last year, I can't think of another CFL backup QB that I would even consider in lieu of Nichols...

Finding quality QB's has always been a struggle in the CFL.

Franklin is another QB that looked really good early and has now struggled. He was on a bad team last year but some of his flaws came to light.

Going back before your time Casey Printers in Vancouver comes to mind. Early success got him some NFL time but he was an early flame out.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 10, 2019, 08:07:57 PM
Odds are that more can't than can especially at the QB position. Streveler was the 1st rookie QB in Winnipeg to start a 1st game of the season since 1968.

In fact he might have been the 1st QB period to start game 1 since 1968.

This isn't the NFL. We don't get to draft and sign QB's the NFL does in the 1st round.

Let me know when we get sign a 1st round 10th pick.

CFL history is strewn with QB's looking good early and being thrown into the fire too soon.

Need a recent name just look at Jennings.


I wanted to comment of this as well... this is part of the reason I'm a fan of Strevelers, I'm not sure you can shake this kid, I love his confidence and his energy... for sure didn't play like a rookie, even when he had less than stellar on field results he never seemed to lose confidence...  he really seems like one of those 'give me the ball, coach' players...

and I'll admit, I thought the Chiefs were straight up nuts to start Mahomes this year, and not to mention they put all of their eggs into one basket by letting Alex Smith go as well. To me, Mahomes never had that impressive of a college resume or on field performance to even warrant the Chiefs to trade up to take him the draft in the first place.  Once again the Smith/Nichols comparison, both will probably win you a lot of regular season games, be great managers of the game and the ball, but never win you a championship...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 10, 2019, 08:12:12 PM
Finding quality QB's has always been a struggle in the CFL.

Franklin is another QB that looked really good early and has now struggled. He was on a bad team last year but some of his flaws came to light.

Going back before your time Casey Printers in Vancouver comes to mind. Early success got him some NFL time but he was an early flame out.

I still believe that with the right opportunity and team that Franklin could make someone a very fine QB... My biggest concern about him is his ability to stay healthy, several injuries during his playing time at Mizzou... great arm and vision as well as a very smart kid, but not all that mobile but runs hard, which may have contributed to some of his injuries...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: booch on January 10, 2019, 08:18:17 PM
I have trouble agreeing with any of this. Having a "shutdown corner" is a key part to a dominant D, and I don't think you get them right away for young and cheap. I remember being quite pleased we were able to get Randle from Calgary because he'd shown to be good.

Also, isn't Alexander a better HB (which is arguably a harder position)? And if so, wouldn't we want consistency there?

I am speaking on the coming from U.S ball to Canadian and playing the corner position...it's one of the easier ones to adapt to, especially field corner as the position's skill/techniques/general responsibility is pretty much the same...so it's easier to drop in a fresh faced new guy into that role than most spots on defense with minimal learning curve...Half back is yes..the toughest and a very foreign position to American guys...so when you have a gooder there...you do what you can to keep him. Alexander is a good half, but I think he could be a great corner on field side...and I think Humes has the body type and ability to be dominant on the boundary, so the Randall relese makes sense, especially with Sayles progression this year at half back.



Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 10, 2019, 08:19:39 PM
I wanted to comment of this as well... this is part of the reason I'm a fan of Strevelers, I'm not sure you can shake this kid, I love his confidence and his energy... for sure didn't play like a rookie, even when he had less than stellar on field results he never seemed to lose confidence...  he really seems like one of those 'give me the ball, coach' players...

and I'll admit, I thought the Chiefs were straight up nuts to start Mahomes this year, and not to mention they put all of their eggs into one basket by letting Alex Smith go as well. To me, Mahomes never had that impressive of a college resume or on field performance to even warrant the Chiefs to trade up to take him the draft in the first place.  Once again the Smith/Nichols comparison, both will probably win you a lot of regular season games, be great managers of the game and the ball, but never win you a championship...

Don't get me wrong, I love what we've seen from Streveler so far.

OTOH if he had been forced into a starting role as Montreal's starting QB how long would he retain his confidence?

He benefited from the good team around him. He also benefited from the play calling allowing safe ball control game management style of play.

I'm not saying Nichols is an average QB. However lets say he is for the moment. Go watch our 1988 and 1990 Grey Cup wins.

In 1988 our QB was average and he still ended up in the NFL. In 1990 our QB was average and won big.

It's a team game and average QB's have won many games including GC's.

Nichols didn't have a great season but the Bombers ended up in the WDF and were not that far off from winning that game.

Had they won, I would have expected them to defeat Ottawa.

Would I rather have BLM or Reilly? Absolutely. Every dollar spent on a QB is a dollar not spent elsewhere.

Small pool of talent of QB's in the CFL at any given time.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 10, 2019, 09:15:37 PM
Don't get me wrong, I love what we've seen from Streveler so far.

OTOH if he had been forced into a starting role as Montreal's starting QB how long would he retain his confidence?

He benefited from the good team around him. He also benefited from the play calling allowing safe ball control game management style of play.

I'm not saying Nichols is an average QB. However lets say he is for the moment. Go watch our 1988 and 1990 Grey Cup wins.

In 1988 our QB was average and he still ended up in the NFL. In 1990 our QB was average and won big.

It's a team game and average QB's have won many games including GC's.

Nichols didn't have a great season but the Bombers ended up in the WDF and were not that far off from winning that game.

Had they won, I would have expected them to defeat Ottawa.

Would I rather have BLM or Reilly? Absolutely. Every dollar spent on a QB is a dollar not spent elsewhere.

Small pool of talent of QB's in the CFL at any given time.

which is another great point as to why I thought now would have been a great time to test the waters so to speak with Streveler, the strength of our O line. Most games they provided very good protection and with Streveler's speed and threat to run... if they over pursue Streveler can beat them with his feet... that's not going to happen with Nichols and defenses know that...

This was the biggest part of the issue experienced with Manziel in Montreal and Franklin in Toronto, horrendous O lines gave both little time to actually perform or to do much other than try to survive...

I don't think Nichols is a bad quarterback, just not one that will be able to take us all of the way... our offensive scheme almost requires a receiver to be open before we can throw, if we would/could spread the field more we could throw more timing passes and receivers would also have more space for after the catch... it seems that almost every reception there are 2 or 3 defenders on them almost immediately, like we are playing in the red zone all game long...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: sweep the leg on January 10, 2019, 09:19:25 PM
Timing is odd on this. We must be going after a younger, cheaper free agent , which is fine, I just would have signed the FA first then released Randal as no way a raw rookie starts there

Imo it's the Bombers showing respect to a veteran. Doing it this way allows Randle to get a jump on fa.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on January 10, 2019, 09:24:50 PM
Regarding timing, it could be he had an off-season bonus due soon. It could also be, and is probably pretty likely, they approached him and told him they valued his services at a significantly lower number this year (ie asked if he wanted to take a pay cut) he declined and got released. Not all organizations would act this way. Chris Jones would have probably brought him to camp and cut him.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: sweep the leg on January 10, 2019, 09:28:46 PM
Regarding timing, it could be he had an off-season bonus due soon.

Haven't all offseason bonuses been frozen until the cba is sorted out?





Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 10, 2019, 09:44:31 PM
Haven't all offseason bonuses been frozen until the cba is sorted out?





I would have to believe that a bonus due to existing contracts would have to be honored. I would think that the mandate was related to agreeing to new contracts with bonus money tied to them...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 10, 2019, 10:50:29 PM
which is another great point as to why I thought now would have been a great time to test the waters so to speak with Streveler, the strength of our O line. Most games they provided very good protection and with Streveler's speed and threat to run... if they over pursue Streveler can beat them with his feet... that's not going to happen with Nichols and defenses know that...

This was the biggest part of the issue experienced with Manziel in Montreal and Franklin in Toronto, horrendous O lines gave both little time to actually perform or to do much other than try to survive...

I don't think Nichols is a bad quarterback, just not one that will be able to take us all of the way... our offensive scheme almost requires a receiver to be open before we can throw, if we would/could spread the field more we could throw more timing passes and receivers would also have more space for after the catch... it seems that almost every reception there are 2 or 3 defenders on them almost immediately, like we are playing in the red zone all game long...

Here's something to contemplate and it's applied to many young CFL QB's. Often they are very athletic, good runners and elusive: Buck Pierce, T. Lulay, J. Jennings, J. Franklin, Collaros,  B. Bridge to name some current QB's. For Winnipeg it's now Streveler.

Two things generally end up happening.

1. Defenses catch up with their style and start taking away their ability to run. That forces them to become better pocket passers. Some succeed and many more do not.

2. Actual injuries destroyed the career for Pierce. I'd say Lulay and Collaros should retire in the interest of health. All were running QB's.

As a back up QB coaches will allow new QB's to run wild so to speak. Once they become starters they tend to reel them in to hope they are less subject to injuries. Pocket passers get hurt often enough without adding further risk when not necessary.

R. Ray and A.Calvillo were not very good runners. Look at the length of their careers, the success and the general lack of injury history until very late in their careers.

My point partially is that I'm not sure that Streveler is or will quickly transition into a more efficient pocket passer.  CFL season is cumulative on the body. Every hit adds up.

Streveler had 77 rushes and was our 2nd leading rusher. Overall he was 13th in the CFL. All that with limited playing time. I wonder how many hits he absorbed as a passer as well.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: dd on January 11, 2019, 12:10:11 AM
Imo it's the Bombers showing respect to a veteran. Doing it this way allows Randle to get a jump on fa.
True enough, but unless we are CERTAIN we have a superior replacement, I would have kept him until we did. It's great we're doing good by him to release him early, I just hope we have a capable replacement vs hope to sign someone and end up with someone inferior and Randal moves onto another team. My priority would be to ensure we get better, and until we have someone better, I wouldn't have released him.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: blue girl on January 11, 2019, 12:23:42 AM
Odds are that more can't than can especially at the QB position. Streveler was the 1st rookie QB in Winnipeg to start a 1st game of the season since 1968.

In fact he might have been the 1st QB period to start game 1 since 1968.

This isn't the NFL. We don't get to draft and sign QB's the NFL does in the 1st round.

Let me know when we get sign a 1st round 10th pick.

CFL history is strewn with QB's looking good early and being thrown into the fire too soon.

Need a recent name just look at Jennings.
You don't even have to go to the rest of the league. Just look at some of the QBs we've had here the last 20 years.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: TBURGESS on January 11, 2019, 12:28:32 AM
Allen, Ham, Flutie, Reilly, Masoli all excellent running QB's who've been very successful in the CFL and arn't known for being injured a lot.

Willy's a pocket passer who gets hurt a lot.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 11, 2019, 01:38:32 AM
True enough, but unless we are CERTAIN we have a superior replacement, I would have kept him until we did. It's great we're doing good by him to release him early, I just hope we have a capable replacement vs hope to sign someone and end up with someone inferior and Randal moves onto another team. My priority would be to ensure we get better, and until we have someone better, I wouldn't have released him.

Expecting cheaper and better is asking bit much considering Randle is still thought of by many as one of the best corners in the league, they might find a cheaper replacement but I'd be honestly surprised if he's as good as Randle.

 
@Ted_Wyman
 Jan 9
More
#Bombers have released veteran cornerback Chris Randle, one of their best defensive players for the last few years. Lions coach Devone Claybrooks told me he thinks Randle is the best boundary corner in the #CFL


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: kkc60 on January 11, 2019, 05:05:19 AM
Expecting cheaper and better is asking bit much considering Randle is still thought of by many as one of the best corners in the league, they might find a cheaper replacement but I'd be honestly surprised if he's as good as Randle.

 
@Ted_Wyman
 Jan 9
More
#Bombers have released veteran cornerback Chris Randle, one of their best defensive players for the last few years. Lions coach Devone Claybrooks told me he thinks Randle is the best boundary corner in the #CFL
Yeah no. I'm worried about our secondary regressing. We just got good...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on January 11, 2019, 06:27:22 AM

@Ted_Wyman
 Jan 9
More
#Bombers have released veteran cornerback Chris Randle, one of their best defensive players for the last few years. Lions coach Devone Claybrooks told me he thinks Randle is the best boundary corner in the #CFL


I guess we'll see how long he lasts on the available FA market.....


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 11, 2019, 07:39:22 AM
Breaux is a potential free agent.

That would be a little silly to let $135k 30-ish Randle go and then go fight to pick up $250k 30-ish Breaux.  Breaux may be better, but $100k better?  And if the goal here is to free up SMS for Biggie/JSK/etc, that would be a pretty big fail.  (OK, might be slight exaggeration on the $250k number...)

A lot of D-leadership has left the dressing room in the last few years, Westerman, Leggett and now Randle were all leaders and spokesman for the D, they **** well better re-sign Bighill.

You said it TLB.  They've now laid the groundwork for the expectation they get Bighill back.  They better not disappoint!!   :o :o

I can live with shaking up / breaking up the Bomber D we've come to love, but not without sane and clear goals being met.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: GCn19 on January 11, 2019, 12:13:18 PM
That would be a little silly to let $135k 30-ish Randle go and then go fight to pick up $250k 30-ish Breaux.  Breaux may be better, but $100k better?  And if the goal here is to free up SMS for Biggie/JSK/etc, that would be a pretty big fail.  (OK, might be slight exaggeration on the $250k number...)

You said it TLB.  They've now laid the groundwork for the expectation they get Bighill back.  They better not disappoint!!   :o :o

I can live with shaking up / breaking up the Bomber D we've come to love, but not without sane and clear goals being met.


Breaux does not make, and will not make, 250k.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: GCn19 on January 11, 2019, 12:16:18 PM
I would have to believe that a bonus due to existing contracts would have to be honored. I would think that the mandate was related to agreeing to new contracts with bonus money tied to them...

Exactly right. The CFL cannot and would not tell teams to be in breach of contract.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 11, 2019, 02:15:21 PM
Allen, Ham, Flutie, Reilly, Masoli all excellent running QB's who've been very successful in the CFL and arn't known for being injured a lot.

Willy's a pocket passer who gets hurt a lot.

History shows more running QB's have had injury issues than those that managed long and successful careers.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 11, 2019, 02:19:05 PM
That would be a little silly to let $135k 30-ish Randle go and then go fight to pick up $250k 30-ish Breaux.  Breaux may be better, but $100k better?  And if the goal here is to free up SMS for Biggie/JSK/etc, that would be a pretty big fail.  (OK, might be slight exaggeration on the $250k number...)

You said it TLB.  They've now laid the groundwork for the expectation they get Bighill back.  They better not disappoint!!   :o :o

I can live with shaking up / breaking up the Bomber D we've come to love, but not without sane and clear goals being met.


It was reported that Randle was due a raise in his contract. Possibly in the range of $150K for 2019.  Breaux's 2019 salary as a free agent is unknown at the moment. I seriously doubt it $250K in 2018.



Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: theaardvark on January 11, 2019, 03:38:48 PM
Jeff Hamilton, in the free press article today said Randle was due a $15K roster bonus Jan 15...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: dd on January 12, 2019, 01:30:21 AM
Expecting cheaper and better is asking bit much considering Randle is still thought of by many as one of the best corners in the league, they might find a cheaper replacement but I'd be honestly surprised if he's as good as Randle.

 
@Ted_Wyman
 Jan 9
More
#Bombers have released veteran cornerback Chris Randle, one of their best defensive players for the last few years. Lions coach Devone Claybrooks told me he thinks Randle is the best boundary corner in the #CFL
If we don't have someone who is better, then I don't know why we released him, at boundary corner no less. If Claybrooks thinks he's the best corner in the CFL, nuff said there. I REALLY question this move. Our defense was just getting to playing well, and now this will be a massive step backwards...if we don't sign Biggie on top of this, YIKES!!!


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Waffler on January 12, 2019, 02:11:25 PM
History shows more running QB's have had injury issues than those that managed long and successful careers.
Yes.  Reilly is the only "running" type that takes an inordinate number of hits. The rest run so they DON'T get hit.  Reilly is an outlier though, can't think of a tougher QB ever. no one else can do what he has done. I say done b/c he is old and his number is coming up soon, he's beat the odds too long already.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: buckzumhoff on January 12, 2019, 02:12:09 PM
.  Why wouldn't they try to trade him. ?


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: kkc60 on January 12, 2019, 03:50:39 PM
.  Why wouldn't they try to trade him. ?
Because at his salary, cant see many or any takers


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 12, 2019, 04:11:12 PM
It's not impossible that after he sees what other offers are out there that he returns to the Bombers?

That may take awhile until more of the free agents around the league sign somewhere.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Knocker42 on January 12, 2019, 06:31:31 PM
.  Why wouldn't they try to trade him. ?
How do you know they didn't?


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: gordo on January 12, 2019, 07:31:36 PM
Gonna be pissed if he signs elsewhere for less than 135K. I assume (hope) we had a chat with him about possibly accepting a pay cut before letting him go.

Too good to let go.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 12, 2019, 08:00:26 PM
Gonna be pissed if he signs elsewhere for less than 135K. I assume (hope) we had a chat with him about possibly accepting a pay cut before letting him go.

Too good to let go.

We may have but until he tests other offers he probably wouldn't want to consider a cut initially.

Other teams will have interest. What $$ offers he gets is the question.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: the paw on January 12, 2019, 08:21:32 PM
Gonna be pissed if he signs elsewhere for less than 135K. I assume (hope) we had a chat with him about possibly accepting a pay cut before letting him go.

Too good to let go.

If they thought he was able to play at his 2017 level again, they wouldn't bother talking to him about a cut, they would just continue on with his contract.  But they looked at his 2018 performance, which was not as strong as 2017, and decided it was the start of the inevitable trend.  Once you decide that, it makes more sense to move on rather than haggling over matching his contract to his perceived value.

Fenner needs a starting slot, Gainor exceeded all expectations, and Sayles was a standout.  This team can also identify good DBs, so while Randle has been a stalwart for us, he is ultimately replaceable.  I am sure he can help out another team, but making this transition and being able to move some SMS dollars to another position makes sense. 


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 12, 2019, 09:43:09 PM
I think, and obviously it's just my opinion, it's more about getting rid of the salary to replace it with the minimum in an attempt to retain other players thought to make a bigger impact as opposed to even keeping him at last year's, or a reduced, amount...

if you believe that this position could be filled at the minimum without a substantial drop off in performance, well, it's boils down to dollars and cents...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 12, 2019, 10:28:18 PM
If they thought he was able to play at his 2017 level again, they wouldn't bother talking to him about a cut, they would just continue on with his contract.  But they looked at his 2018 performance, which was not as strong as 2017, and decided it was the start of the inevitable trend.  Once you decide that, it makes more sense to move on rather than haggling over matching his contract to his perceived value.

Fenner needs a starting slot, Gainor exceeded all expectations, and Sayles was a standout.  This team can also identify good DBs, so while Randle has been a stalwart for us, he is ultimately replaceable.  I am sure he can help out another team, but making this transition and being able to move some SMS dollars to another position makes sense. 

This team can identify good DB's?? We've found Alexander and Sayles. Not much more past that, that have played, made and impression and been retrained.

Consider those that started a bunch of games in 2017 and are no longer in the CFL.

Randle's contact may have been excessive currently but weigh that against what Claybrooks said calling him the best corner CB in the CFL.

An SMS decision and / or some talent on the horizon? Perhaps. It could be Fenner. Time will tell.



Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: the paw on January 12, 2019, 10:43:28 PM
This team can identify good DB's?? We've found Alexander and Sayles. Not much more past that, that have played, made and impression and been retrained.

Consider those that started a bunch of games in 2017 and are no longer in the CFL.

Randle's contact may have been excessive currently but weigh that against what Claybrooks said calling him the best corner CB in the CFL.

An SMS decision and / or some talent on the horizon? Perhaps. It could be Fenner. Time will tell.



Bomber DBs who are cut are routinely given looks with other CFL teams.  Demond Washington, Johnny Adams, and even Brian Walker spring to mind.  And Alexander and Sayles were great finds, I?m not sure how many new DBs you expect them to find each year, but that?s a good yield.  Not to mention that correctly identifying and utilizing Gainor and Fenner is an indicator of good judgement.

Claybrooks said Randle was one of the best ?in the last couple of years? and I would agree with him for 2017.  But my eyes told be he was more vulnerable in 2018.  And Claybrooks is a former teammate, who will often hold high regard, but I?ll put more stock in Claybrooks opinion if he actually signs Randle. 

In any event, better a year too soon than a year too late.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 12, 2019, 11:01:07 PM
Individually, Randle may have played better in 2017, however, as a group the secondary cut 30+ yard passes from 42 in 2017 to just 19 in 2018... hopefully, we don't revert back to 2017 results...

the truth of the matter is, everyone will eventually price themselves out of a job, that... as a player you sit back and see others get pay raises and figure you deserve one as well, and you may, and it cost you your job... before long, teams will consist of 4 or so star players making bank and a supporting cast of nothing more than minimum wage players coming and going every two years... we already have teams manipulating injury roster and sending players down to the PR to try and stay within SMS...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 13, 2019, 12:02:55 AM
Bomber DBs who are cut are routinely given looks with other CFL teams.  Demond Washington, Johnny Adams, and even Brian Walker spring to mind.  And Alexander and Sayles were great finds, I?m not sure how many new DBs you expect them to find each year, but that?s a good yield.  Not to mention that correctly identifying and utilizing Gainor and Fenner is an indicator of good judgement.

Claybrooks said Randle was one of the best ?in the last couple of years? and I would agree with him for 2017.  But my eyes told be he was more vulnerable in 2018.  And Claybrooks is a former teammate, who will often hold high regard, but I?ll put more stock in Claybrooks opinion if he actually signs Randle. 

In any event, better a year too soon than a year too late.

Washington was a player whose 1st season is 2012. Walker was a bust in Winnipeg and has done little since except being a PR guy. Adams is now on his 3rd team?

Gaitor and Fenner are very good players that started in Vancouver not Winnipeg. For whatever reason, Fenner was not a starter in Winnipeg so what the plan for him is at the moment is unclear. He had a great 2017 season in Vancouver on defense and ST's. IIRC he was in the $120K range?

So if your definition of finding good DB's is signing expensive players in free agency, then it's different than my definition. Players released and getting PR spots on other teams doesn't mean much. If we release them and they go on to success then you'd have a point.

Finding good DB's has not been a strength of the organization.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 13, 2019, 12:13:55 AM
It would be interesting to see some more stats on all the DB's.

Times targeted, completions, knock downs, yardage given up, actual YAC after completion, TD's given up, 1st downs prevented. Numbers aren't black and white because different DB's positions are more difficult to play, they cover different receivers.

At the moment we only have one starter ( Sayles ) signed from the 2018 group. We expect Fenner will now become a starter but why he wasn't starting in 2018 is still a mystery. Is he taking Randle's spot?

We'll have to see what we end up with before we know if we've improved or taken a step back.



Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: TBURGESS on January 13, 2019, 03:23:12 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dwhs5KCVsAA9Ibh?format=jpg&name=small)

Like this?


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 13, 2019, 04:20:02 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dwhs5KCVsAA9Ibh?format=jpg&name=small)

Like this?

Good god that looks bad, don't show it again!  It's amazing they beat anyone.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 13, 2019, 04:33:30 AM
Individually, Randle may have played better in 2017, however, as a group the secondary cut 30+ yard passes from 42 in 2017 to just 19 in 2018... hopefully, we don't revert back to 2017 results...

the truth of the matter is, everyone will eventually price themselves out of a job, that... as a player you sit back and see others get pay raises and figure you deserve one as well, and you may, and it cost you your job... before long, teams will consist of 4 or so star players making bank and a supporting cast of nothing more than minimum wage players coming and going every two years... we already have teams manipulating injury roster and sending players down to the PR to try and stay within SMS...

It wouldn't surprise me much if this came to pass, in business circles it may be considered a good solution but in reality it's a disturbing scenario.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: theaardvark on January 13, 2019, 06:56:20 AM
It wouldn't surprise me much if this came to pass, in business circles it may be considered a good solution but in reality it's a disturbing scenario.

Like an NBA or NHL team?


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 13, 2019, 07:14:52 AM
TBURGESS, where did you come up with those stats? those are pretty cool, thanks for sharing...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 13, 2019, 02:38:24 PM
Excellent information. A bit difficult to read a line across due to the size. I couldn't make it smaller in order to follow one line across easily. Can you adjust the page size or attach a link?

Of course data always needs to be taken with a grain of salt for perspective I suppose.

In regard to Randle, he was targeted the most but gave up a lower % of completions and less TD's.  OTOH he was often covering the opponents best receivers outside.

In regard to Fogg, IMO his position should normally not be seeing as many targets as the rest of the secondary or the best of the opponents receivers. His average yardage per catch is quite high as is the number of TD's as the wide side CB. At least IMO.

Overall for the team I think the average completion rate combined is quite high and IMO that's attributed to the style of our DC more than directly to the personnel as a group?

Anyway. Just my view after a look see.

Is this same information available for Calgary to compare how their defense did? They gave up the least amount of points so that would be interesting.


Normally I expect offenses to attack from the inside out. Our stats seem to indicate our defense was attacked more outside in. I'd take that as a positive from a strategy point of view. Our inside DB's assisted by LB's dropping created havoc.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: TBURGESS on January 13, 2019, 03:02:39 PM
TBURGESS, where did you come up with those stats? those are pretty cool, thanks for sharing...
Not my data. As the image says, it comes from Nik Kowalski's twitter @LWOSNikKowalski. He has lots of this kind of info Follow him.

Not sure how to shrink the image to fit. If someone wants to let me know how, I'll be happy to shrink it.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 13, 2019, 03:04:38 PM
Not my data. As the image says, it comes from Nik Kowalski's twitter @LWOSNikKowalski. He has lots of this kind of info Follow him.

Not sure how to shrink the image to fit. If someone wants to let me know how, I'll be happy to shrink it.

I gave up my cell when I retired and have never followed twitter unfortunately.

I looked at the file in " print preview " at 30% and that allowed me to look at the file easier. I noticed that Bighill and JSK had very high % completions against but not excessive yardage or TD's given up.

Not a bad thing IMO, just a notation how our LB's were used in coverage.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 13, 2019, 04:18:23 PM
Like an NBA or NHL team?

???


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 13, 2019, 04:38:31 PM
It wouldn't surprise me much if this came to pass, in business circles it may be considered a good solution but in reality it's a disturbing scenario.

It would surprise me though. The CFL has been around a long time and SMS is the ultimate balancing act. Teams have to make hard decisions every season.

Not much point of having 12 of the best players and 12 of the worst players as your 24 starters. Trying to find the balance of SMS, youth, upside and getting the most value for money is not easy.

Every decision has an offset somewhere on the roster. 2019 is going to be a real test across the CFL with the number of free agents. At some point a given salary is too much even for the top performers. It's the reality of CFL budgets against revenue.

Bombers may or may not be looking to add veteran DB's in free agency. Depends on whether we can re-sign our own potential free agents.

SMS aside since I don't know salaries or players expectations but there are a few players of interest for me if we do look at free agents: Grymes, Leonard, Unamba, C. Evans and Wall.





Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Tehedra on January 13, 2019, 04:50:11 PM
It is interesting, I thought Randle had lost a step but didn't realize that his stats show he outperformed all our other DBs


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 13, 2019, 07:13:47 PM
It is interesting, I thought Randle had lost a step but didn't realize that his stats show he outperformed all our other DBs

He got burned a few times and that's what people tend to remember, for the most part he was very solid.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 13, 2019, 07:15:25 PM
It would surprise me though. The CFL has been around a long time and SMS is the ultimate balancing act. Teams have to make hard decisions every season.

Not much point of having 12 of the best players and 12 of the worst players as your 24 starters. Trying to find the balance of SMS, youth, upside and getting the most value for money is not easy.

Every decision has an offset somewhere on the roster. 2019 is going to be a real test across the CFL with the number of free agents. At some point a given salary is too much even for the top performers. It's the reality of CFL budgets against revenue.

Bombers may or may not be looking to add veteran DB's in free agency. Depends on whether we can re-sign our own potential free agents.

SMS aside since I don't know salaries or players expectations but there are a few players of interest for me if we do look at free agents: Grymes, Leonard, Unamba, C. Evans and Wall.

This year will be a good test, I predict the team that pays Reilly $650,000+ for his services will suffer the consequences in other areas.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 13, 2019, 08:37:48 PM
This year will be a good test, I predict the team that pays Reilly $650,000+ for his services will suffer the consequences in other areas.

Any team paying any QB $650K is insane within the CFL SMS. I'll be stunned if he gets anything remotely in that range. Even $500K is pushing the boundaries of the SMS IMO. Teams have been known to overpay players in the past though. IE: Westerman in 2018.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 13, 2019, 09:26:40 PM
I believe Reilly was already being paid atleast  $500,000 last year, if there's competition for his services his pay cheque is going up.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 14, 2019, 12:40:07 AM
I believe Reilly was already being paid atleast  $500,000 last year, if there's competition for his services his pay cheque is going up.

The Esks finished last in the west and out of the playoffs. There were  many factors but it's possible that too much money spent at the top of their roster hurt overall depth.

Hard to prove or disprove aside from having an excellent QB and finishing 5th.

I stand by $500K would already seem to be the limit.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: the paw on January 14, 2019, 01:02:44 AM
The Esks finished last in the west and out of the playoffs. There were  many factors but it's possible that too much money spent at the top of their roster hurt overall depth.

Hard to prove or disprove aside from having an excellent QB and finishing 5th.

I stand by $500K would already seem to be the limit.

Reilly made over $500k this year and last year.  Because of his signing bonus, he made $600k in 2016. 

https://www.tsn.ca/eskimos-sign-qb-reilly-to-contract-extension-1.471943

Since this article, Nichols has signed for $450k, Harris has gotten to the same level, and even Collaros is in that neighbourhood.  Given all that, and the shortage of established starting QBs this year, it is going to take at LEAST $550k to sign Reilly, with a chunk of that up front.

Having said that, there is a ceiling to how high you can go before you are cheating the rest of your roster.  I?m not sure exactly where that ceiling is, but I would stop short of $600k myself.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 14, 2019, 01:48:37 AM
Reilly made over $500k this year and last year.  Because of his signing bonus, he made $600k in 2016. 

https://www.tsn.ca/eskimos-sign-qb-reilly-to-contract-extension-1.471943

Since this article, Nichols has signed for $450k, Harris has gotten to the same level, and even Collaros is in that neighbourhood.  Given all that, and the shortage of established starting QBs this year, it is going to take at LEAST $550k to sign Reilly, with a chunk of that up front.

Having said that, there is a ceiling to how high you can go before you are cheating the rest of your roster.  I?m not sure exactly where that ceiling is, but I would stop short of $600k myself.

The Edm. Sun is reporting Collaros also made over $500,000 last year, I can't imagine how that could be true given his pitiful showing in Hamilton the year previous, I think he went 0-8 before being replaced by Masoli.

"Reilly and Collaros currently lead the league with annual salaries that have been reported at more than $500,000."

https://edmontonsun.com/sports/football/cfl/edmonton-eskimos/eskimos-qb-reilly-holding-off-on-contract-talks-until-cba-picture-clears


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: blue_or_die on January 14, 2019, 01:19:42 PM
The Edm. Sun is reporting Collaros also made over $500,000 last year, I can't imagine how that could be true given his pitiful showing in Hamilton the year previous, I think he went 0-8 before being replaced by Masoli.

"Reilly and Collaros currently lead the league with annual salaries that have been reported at more than $500,000."

https://edmontonsun.com/sports/football/cfl/edmonton-eskimos/eskimos-qb-reilly-holding-off-on-contract-talks-until-cba-picture-clears

Yep, the Riders traded for him and so inherited his contract which was based on his once great play before he started getting hurt and has not been the same since.

CJ gambled on him hard and just about everyone here knew it was a dumb move that wouldn't pay off.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: booch on January 14, 2019, 01:26:29 PM
and this commg year they could be in the same boat at QB or even worse..If Reilly and BLM sign with their old teams...or elsewhere not Sask...then the Ol Rider's will be royally screwed...coupled with the fact their best receiver bolted down south as well and still huge O-line questions, especially if Bladek isn't ready for start of season, and even so he was no stalwart out there


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: the paw on January 14, 2019, 01:36:36 PM
The Edm. Sun is reporting Collaros also made over $500,000 last year, I can't imagine how that could be true given his pitiful showing in Hamilton the year previous, I think he went 0-8 before being replaced by Masoli.

"Reilly and Collaros currently lead the league with annual salaries that have been reported at more than $500,000."

https://edmontonsun.com/sports/football/cfl/edmonton-eskimos/eskimos-qb-reilly-holding-off-on-contract-talks-until-cba-picture-clears

He was at $540k with Hamilton, but after the trade to the Riders, he renegotiated to $430k with more up front.

https://3downnation.com/2018/01/19/details-on-riders-and-zach-collaros-restructured-contract/




Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 14, 2019, 02:17:21 PM
He was at $540k with Hamilton, but after the trade to the Riders, he renegotiated to $430k with more up front.

https://3downnation.com/2018/01/19/details-on-riders-and-zach-collaros-restructured-contract/




I'm surprised it's reached that high but IMO it's too large a risk and hamstrings the roster. Not much point paying that much for a QB if you don't have an OL to protect him. Since that's where many starting Canadians play, that seems to be where SMS is given up.

The balancing act has tipped too far in the direction of QB's.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 14, 2019, 05:30:31 PM
I'm surprised it's reached that high but IMO it's too large a risk and hamstrings the roster. Not much point paying that much for a QB if you don't have an OL to protect him. Since that's where many starting Canadians play, that seems to be where SMS is given up.

The balancing act has tipped too far in the direction of QB's.

agree, QB salary is disproportional to the rest of player salaries and does hamstring a roster and will only get worse until there is a cap on QB salaries, which I don't see happening... being the single most important position on the team, it's easy to see how it happens, it does as well in the NFL... NFL QBs get stupid money, someone like Alex Smith got a 5 year deal for $71M with $55M guaranteed?

However, the NFL is working with a $190M salary cap... huge difference... because when a player becomes a free agent and tells the team he feels he deserves a $100K raise, it's not nearly as hard to find the money. Or, if a west coast player is offered $100K more by a east coast team when he is already making $5.7M, it's not that difficult to stay where they are and play for less if they like their situation... here, $5K is enough to make a guy change teams as it's a lot of money relative to what they make...

Couple QB salaries with the continuing practice of premium national pay against a what is already a tight SMS cap... welll... it's only gonna to get tougher to build a competitive roster and even tougher, if not impossible, to keep a great team together longer than 1 season... and it's not necessarily the high veteran pay that will kill a team, it's the 2nd year player coming off his rookie contract that was making league minimum... because you are a team that is already up against the cap and this player is going to want a substantial raise and you just won't have the money to pay him, or the other 3 or 4, or more, players in the same place...

that's why I said at the beginning of the year that last year, 2018, looked like the best chance to win the Grey Cup because on paper we had a very good team and the chances of keeping this team intact for the 2019 season are small...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 14, 2019, 05:38:03 PM
Could you imagine a team like the Bombers offering $600K for Reilly so they could trade / cut Nichols.

What would that do to our ability to re-sign all the other players like Bighill, Goossen, Chungh, Demski, JSK and Alexander etc?

We may lose some of this talent already due to SMS issues.



Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: theaardvark on January 14, 2019, 05:47:10 PM
agree, QB salary is disproportional to the rest of player salaries and does hamstring a roster and will only get worse until there is a cap on QB salaries, which I don't see happening... being the single most important position on the team, it's easy to see how it happens, it does as well in the NFL... NFL QBs get stupid money, someone like Alex Smith got a 5 year deal for $71M with $55M guaranteed?

However, the NFL is working with a $190M salary cap... huge difference... because when a player becomes a free agent and tells the team he feels he deserves a $100K raise, it's not nearly as hard to find the money. Or, if a west coast player is offered $100K more by a east coast team when he is already making $5.7M, it's not that difficult to stay where they are and play for less if they like their situation... here, $5K is enough to make a guy change teams as it's a lot of money relative to what they make...

Couple QB salaries with the continuing practice of premium national pay against a what is already a tight SMS cap... welll... it's only gonna to get tougher to build a competitive roster and even tougher, if not impossible, to keep a great team together longer than 1 season... and it's not necessarily the high veteran pay that will kill a team, it's the 2nd year player coming off his rookie contract that was making league minimum... because you are a team that is already up against the cap and this player is going to want a substantial raise and you just won't have the money to pay him, or the other 3 or 4, or more, players in the same place...

that's why I said at the beginning of the year that last year, 2018, looked like the best chance to win the Grey Cup because on paper we had a very good team and the chances of keeping this team intact for the 2019 season are small...

5 yr, 71 mil contract with a 190mil cap is like 7.5% of the cap, whereas 550k in a 5.2mil cap is 10.5% of the cap...  412,000/yr in the CFL would be the equivalent to a 5yr/71mil contract in the NFL.  $550k would be like a 5yr/$100mil contract in the NFL as a percentage of cap...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 14, 2019, 05:50:30 PM
Yep, the Riders traded for him and so inherited his contract which was based on his once great play before he started getting hurt and has not been the same since.

CJ gambled on him hard and just about everyone here knew it was a dumb move that wouldn't pay off.

This is true but there were plenty of rumours that his contract was re-worked before signing, I guess not.

Looks like the Jacksonville Jaguars worked out Reilly in Dec. and were impressed, Scott Milanovich just happens to be their QB coach.

https://nflspinzone.com/2019/01/12/jacksonville-jaguars-mike-reilly-bridge-quarterback-2019/


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: blue_gold_84 on January 14, 2019, 06:02:15 PM
This is true but there were plenty of rumours that his contract was re-worked before signing, I guess not.

Looks like the Jacksonville Jaguars worked out Reilly in Dec. and were impressed, Scott Milanovich just happens to be their QB coach.

https://nflspinzone.com/2019/01/12/jacksonville-jaguars-mike-reilly-bridge-quarterback-2019/

He was promoted to interim OC after Hackett was fired in late November.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: booch on January 14, 2019, 06:54:57 PM
If anything right now with all the uncertainty with QB's around the league..CBA (which actually isn't a big issue for new contracts) we are actually in the driver's seat and looking pretty good in ability to sign who we "want"

We already have 2019 SMS allocated for our QB's and know what we have left to disperse amungst the players we still need to resign, or who we may be targeting. We can make very attractive "best" offers right off the bat, as there could be 3-4 teams competing against each other trying to land the limited number of legit guys as their starter (if they don't sign NFL deals) driving up their prices well beyond whats really practical, as well as most likely over paying for the non-legit guys as well.

That extra 60-100k they may be forced to pay a QB may be the difference in some teams not being able to go ater a high profile guy like Biggie...or a stud receiver. Also these teams will be pretty thin at QB depth as affording a proven back-up who could/should garner 150k or more..will be next to impossible if you don't want to cripple your roster elsewhere.

We basically know that our 3 pivots will cost us about 550-600k total this year..there could very well be 2 teams paying 500k..or well over for just a starter let alone any back-ups...and probably a couple teams paying 300-400k for a putz like Jennings..Glenn..or injury waiting to happen in Lulay....from my view point it looks pretty good for us



Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 14, 2019, 07:42:17 PM
Yeah, we're in pretty good shape compared to other teams and some of the issues they have with their top free agents.

I'm thinking we must be close to landing some of our top players or conversely knowing we have to move on in another direction.

I don't know how much we've offered Bighill but it's not likely we've got another $100K above what we've offered already. If he's leaving I don't see money as the main reason.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 14, 2019, 08:43:38 PM
there is a reason why there is an issue with finding quality QB's in the wings waiting to play or why there is not a larger available pool to pick from... and the CFL has done it to themselves for the most part...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 14, 2019, 09:34:32 PM
there is a reason why there is an issue with finding quality QB's in the wings waiting to play or why there is not a larger available pool to pick from... and the CFL has done it to themselves for the most part...

What is that reason in your opinion? You're not the first relative newbie that thinks he's figured it out.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 14, 2019, 10:40:39 PM
What is that reason in your opinion? You're not the first relative newbie that thinks he's figured it out.

here it goes, lol...

for me, I have to believe that there are a ton, probably 80 or 90 potential QBs, collectively, that are on the team's negotiation list which in turn, essentially makes 90% unavailable to any one team at any given time... seeing how the intent of the list is to secure the rights of talent that could help your team, I have to believe that the majority of talented QBs that may be available would be on someone's list...

I may be wrong though... but, I find it hard to believe a) since QB is the most important position on a team that there isn't several on the list, and b) that a team would add players to the list that aren't considered potential quality players, or b) they would only add a player that they feel would likely consider coming to the CFL at some point....

not saying 'I figured it out', just offering my opinion as to why I think that there is seemingly a drought of starting quality QBs available to the CFL vs. the number of QBs that graduate each year...

and lastly, I'm hardly a newbie, I've been here almost 2 years, lol... and even so, I doubt any other newbie has put in the work that I have to try and learn and understand the CFL...  ;D


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: dd on January 15, 2019, 12:00:05 AM
The reason there isn't a ton of quality Qb's waiting in the wings is simple---the risk isn't worth the reward. it isn't worth it for an up and coming Qb to come to Canada, to get paid in a weaker dollar, to move to a different country, and to get a fraction of what he could potentially make in the US.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue72 on January 15, 2019, 01:43:41 PM
Why would any up and coming QB come to Canada when there are coaches like MOS that refuses to play his backups even when the team is really winning or the game is lost. Most guys would be #3 on the list which gives them very little playing time and less film to get a chance to the NFL.
Most #1 guys get upset when they get pulled which gives your #2 guy very little playing time so for the #3 guy to show something he has to play a double roll on the team, Short yardage or another position or #1 and maybe #2 have to get injures.
 
So for a young guy to show what he has is very difficult and to hold a clipboard doesn't do very much for his career or supporting his family with a minimum Canadian salary for 2 years and not getting on the field to show what he has.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 15, 2019, 02:34:12 PM
Why would any up and coming QB come to Canada when there are coaches like MOS that refuses to play his backups even when the team is really winning or the game is lost. Most guys would be #3 on the list which gives them very little playing time and less film to get a chance to the NFL.
Most #1 guys get upset when they get pulled which gives your #2 guy very little playing time so for the #3 guy to show something he has to play a double roll on the team, Short yardage or another position or #1 and maybe #2 have to get injures.
 
So for a young guy to show what he has is very difficult and to hold a clipboard doesn't do very much for his career or supporting his family with a minimum Canadian salary for 2 years and not getting on the field to show what he has.

Most coaches in the CFL or even the NFL are reluctant to not allow their # 1 QB to play through rough times. How many back up QB's did you ever get meaningful playing time behind A. Calvillo.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 15, 2019, 02:42:13 PM
here it goes, lol...

for me, I have to believe that there are a ton, probably 80 or 90 potential QBs, collectively, that are on the team's negotiation list which in turn, essentially makes 90% unavailable to any one team at any given time... seeing how the intent of the list is to secure the rights of talent that could help your team, I have to believe that the majority of talented QBs that may be available would be on someone's list...

I may be wrong though... but, I find it hard to believe a) since QB is the most important position on a team that there isn't several on the list, and b) that a team would add players to the list that aren't considered potential quality players, or b) they would only add a player that they feel would likely consider coming to the CFL at some point....

not saying 'I figured it out', just offering my opinion as to why I think that there is seemingly a drought of starting quality QBs available to the CFL vs. the number of QBs that graduate each year...

and lastly, I'm hardly a newbie, I've been here almost 2 years, lol... and even so, I doubt any other newbie has put in the work that I have to try and learn and understand the CFL...  ;D

You're really over complicating the situation that has existed since the early 70's. Obviously teams add talented players they hope will fall through the NFL cracks at some point and be free to come north.

The ultimate problem is revenue that dictates the SMS. The CFL is never going to be able to lure players based on money. Players come to the CFL when current NFL options are gone and they are looking to play and showcase their talents.

NFL ELC's are higher than top salaries of most if not all CFL players. Not all American players will decide to drift north for $53K.



Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: TBURGESS on January 15, 2019, 02:47:38 PM
Are you comparing Calvillo to Nichols?


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 15, 2019, 02:52:41 PM
Are you comparing Calvillo to Nichols?

Of course not. Just making the point that coaches are reluctant to put in their # 2 QB. In the CFL the game is seldom really out of reach. QB's that are playing badly can still do enough to win.

Take Calgary as an example. Their # 2 QB had 25 pass attempts compared to 585 for BLM.

Are you going to suggest the Stamps never had the opportunity to give him some reps?

The reality is that most back ups get reps due to injury to the # 1 QB.

The days of a 2 QB system are long gone.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: the paw on January 15, 2019, 03:04:27 PM
there is a reason why there is an issue with finding quality QB's in the wings waiting to play or why there is not a larger available pool to pick from... and the CFL has done it to themselves for the most part...

The fact of the matter is that most NCAA quarterbacks don't have what it takes to become a professional.  They disqualify themselves in a bunch of different ways:  too short, not enough IQ, not willing to dedicate the hours that it takes, unstable personal life, too slow, etc. etc. Guys who meet and exceed the various thresholds to succeed in college can't all make the next step up.

Of the pool who can potentially make the step, a chunk of them are NFL good, and aren't every really in consideration for the CFL.  But pretty much everyone in that pool attends an NFL camp, signs a priority free agent agreement, or otherwise becomes a training camp hobo until they come to the realization that the CFL might be their next best option.  Of these, some just don't want to leave the country to continue playing.  

That whittles down the pool quite a bit, but even those who survive the culling still have to show something when they get their chance.  And invariably across the league, teams go through a raft of 3rd string and practice QBs  as they wait for an opportunity to test them under fire.  And not surprisingly, some of them just can't quite deliver the goods.  

Streveler is almost the only QB I can remember that signed with the Bombers without attending an NFL camp.  Even Justin Goltz went to rookie camp with the Detroit Lions out of Division 3.  His limited experience at QB in college was definitely a factor.  While he has shown well in his limited work to date, he hasn't yet established himself as a bona fide CFL starter.  Only time will tell.  

What it boils down to is that the CFL is a professional league, and athletes that can play QB at a professional level are a scarce commodity.  Its why they make the big coin, and its why they are a disproportionate share of the neg list names.  


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: TBURGESS on January 15, 2019, 03:37:37 PM
Of course not. Just making the point that coaches are reluctant to put in their # 2 QB. In the CFL the game is seldom really out of reach. QB's that are playing badly can still do enough to win.

Take Calgary as an example. Their # 2 QB had 25 pass attempts compared to 585 for BLM.

Are you going to suggest the Stamps never had the opportunity to give him some reps?

The reality is that most back ups get reps due to injury to the # 1 QB.

The days of a 2 QB system are long gone.
Now you're comparing Nichols to BLM? Next you're going to compare him to Reilly.

It has to do with the quality of the backup QB's. You don't just give your backup QB reps. They should earn them. Frankly, Montreal never brought in big time backup QB's when Calvillo was starting because they could count on Calvillo 90+% of the time and because the starter was sucking up so much SMS space. Same holds true for Calgary with BLM.

When our backup QB's were poor, then letting Nichols play through his problems was the obvious thing to do. It's not as obvious when the backup has shown a ton of promise.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: GCn19 on January 15, 2019, 05:24:44 PM
Of course not. Just making the point that coaches are reluctant to put in their # 2 QB. In the CFL the game is seldom really out of reach. QB's that are playing badly can still do enough to win.

Take Calgary as an example. Their # 2 QB had 25 pass attempts compared to 585 for BLM.

Are you going to suggest the Stamps never had the opportunity to give him some reps?

The reality is that most back ups get reps due to injury to the # 1 QB.

The days of a 2 QB system are long gone.

Lots of number 2 QBs get reps because the starter is struggling to win. Last year we saw this happen in TO, Mont (numerous times), and BC. To suggest a number two will not get reps unless there is an injury is simply not true. If Nichols starts the season 0-4 you can bet your bottom dollar that Streveler will be seeing the field.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 15, 2019, 05:29:34 PM
Now you're comparing Nichols to BLM? Next you're going to compare him to Reilly.

It has to do with the quality of the backup QB's. You don't just give your backup QB reps. They should earn them. Frankly, Montreal never brought in big time backup QB's when Calvillo was starting because they could count on Calvillo 90+% of the time and because the starter was sucking up so much SMS space. Same holds true for Calgary with BLM.

When our backup QB's were poor, then letting Nichols play through his problems was the obvious thing to do. It's not as obvious when the backup has shown a ton of promise.

I'm not comparing Nichols to anybody. I'm just stating the obvious that teams just don't give back up QB's opportunities they should  when situations arise other than injury.

Are you going to tell me that there was never a situation in Calgary where they had an insurmountable lead and the back up couldn't have gotten reps?

This is NOT an O'Shea only situation. To think otherwise is obtuse.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 15, 2019, 05:32:36 PM
Lots of number 2 QBs get reps because the starter is struggling to win. Last year we saw this happen in TO, Mont (numerous times), and BC. To suggest a number two will not get reps unless there is an injury is simply not true. If Nichols starts the season 0-4 you can bet your bottom dollar that Streveler will be seeing the field.

Toronto lost R. Ray early. They had no clear # 1 after that. If R. Ray had stayed healthy it's very unlikely they would have put back ups in the game.

In 2017 R. Ray had 668 pass attempts. Fajardo had 30 and Matthews had 12. In a season where the Argos were 9 - 9 during the regular season, are you suggesting there was NEVER a chance to use a # 2 QB?

Montreal has had a revolving door at QB and no clear # 1 up to and including Manziel at this point.

In Regina Collaros was injured multiple times and they were forced to experiment with multiple QB's with no success.

In Vancouver Jennings had become the # 1 QB however he struggled in 2018. Lulay was a long time veteran and starter in BC. He won a Grey Cup.  Hardly the same concept of inserting an Arbuckle, Fajardo, B. Bridge or the myriad of # 2 QB's around the league.

Your suggestion stinks.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: theaardvark on January 15, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Toronto lost R. Ray early. They had no clear # 1 after that. If R. Ray had stayed healthy it's very unlikely they would have put back ups in the game.

In 2017 R. Ray had 668 pass attempts. Fajardo had 30 and Matthews had 12. In a season where the Argos were 9 - 9 during the regular season, are you suggesting there was NEVER a chance to use a # 2 QB?

Montreal has had a revolving door at QB and no clear # 1 up to and including Manziel at this point.

In Regina Collaros was injured multiple times and they were forced to experiment with multiple QB's with no success.

In Vancouver Jennings had become the # 1 QB however he struggled in 2018. Lulay was a long time veteran and starter in BC. He won a Grey Cup.  Hardly the same concept of inserting an Arbuckle, Fajardo, B. Bridge or the myriad of # 2 QB's around the league.

Your suggestion stinks.
About the TO part, RR wasn't really supposed to be the starter last year, its why they went out and got Franklin, the next Mike Riley.  The fact he flamed out so bad was unfortunate for the GC champs...  unfortunately, as long as TO throws money at RR (respect for doing that for a legendary player), doubtful he retires until injury forces him to.  MBT and Frank the Tank are fighting for the starting spot, have been since last training camp.  MBT didn't make 3rd string here... but apparently seems to be outplaying Franklin... Popp without AC/RR seems pretty m'eh.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 15, 2019, 06:01:33 PM
About the TO part, RR wasn't really supposed to be the starter last year, its why they went out and got Franklin, the next Mike Riley.  The fact he flamed out so bad was unfortunate for the GC champs...  unfortunately, as long as TO throws money at RR (respect for doing that for a legendary player), doubtful he retires until injury forces him to.  MBT and Frank the Tank are fighting for the starting spot, have been since last training camp.  MBT didn't make 3rd string here... but apparently seems to be outplaying Franklin... Popp without AC/RR seems pretty m'eh.

Franklin was never penciled in as the starter. He was viewed as the future and might have actually seen some decent reps during 2018 if R. Ray wasn't injured. Franklin was in year 4 in 2018 and had some opportunity to play due to injury previously.

Not quite sure how much R. Ray was earning but let's say $400K ( probably low actually ). You don't sit a hall of fame QB unless you have to ( injury ) or you have real opportunities because of lopsided games.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: TBURGESS on January 15, 2019, 06:57:09 PM
I'm not comparing Nichols to anybody. I'm just stating the obvious that teams just don't give back up QB's opportunities they should  when situations arise other than injury.

Are you going to tell me that there was never a situation in Calgary where they had an insurmountable lead and the back up couldn't have gotten reps?

This is NOT an O'Shea only situation. To think otherwise is obtuse.
No, I'm telling you that BLM is a top tier QB, his backup isn't good enough so giving him reps doesn't make any sense.

You're talking about giving any backup QB reps. I'm talking about giving promising backup QB's reps.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 15, 2019, 07:04:59 PM
You're really over complicating the situation that has existed since the early 70's. Obviously teams add talented players they hope will fall through the NFL cracks at some point and be free to come north.

The ultimate problem is revenue that dictates the SMS. The CFL is never going to be able to lure players based on money. Players come to the CFL when current NFL options are gone and they are looking to play and showcase their talents.

NFL ELC's are higher than top salaries of most if not all CFL players. Not all American players will decide to drift north for $53K.



honestly, we are both right to varying degrees... but you hit the nail on the head when you pointed out that the ultimate problem is the revenue that dictates the SMS... because the SMS is what dictates the need for a negotiation list as it is the tool they use to manage cost... not only is it a tool to manage cost, it can be used to strategically to keep your opponents from getting better...

obviously you're a smart person, and I don't believe for a second that you are naive enough to actually believe that quarterbacks are the only position immune from the 'want' to continue playing ball, to be a professional athlete, or their 'belief' that they are just one stop away from making it, that they are different and will beat the system...  they are just like the other thousands of players, just fewer of them...

I made my money, and I made a lot of it, as a problem solver... taking complex problems or operations and coming up with better or more cost effective ways to address the issue, and or, yield better results... it's really not that hard to do, it's just a matter of asking the right questions to understand where and why the current process is flawed, basically... the first question I would always ask myself is 'why is the current process in place?'... also, with any problem there are a multitude of 'why don't you do this?' or 'why haven't you tried that?' questions that will identify road blocks, bottle necks, challenges, conflicting operations, etc., related to the solving the problem... these questions will lead you to 100's of other questions that will ultimately be used to successfully understand what the desired results are and the best way to achieve them.

so, as will every off season there is conversation related to finding players, both success and failure...'finding players' is just part of the problem for a team, because there are a lot of other considerations to be made in order to acquire a player that are not always obvious at first glance to most fans. But, it is the overall goal, as simplistic as it is, that we tell the story...

so, the first and most obvious question is "how do you acquire players today?" which will lead you to eventually ask "what is a negotiation list?" which will yield a multitude of questions that ultimately will identify the team's current methodology, related needs /goals and desired results... so let's start asking questions because it doesn't take long to get where we're going..

Q: how do you acquire players?
A: We draft Canadian players through a formal draft process and we sign import players from a negotiation list we maintain.

Q: why is there 2 different ways of acquiring players, if the draft process works for Canadian talent why don't you use the same for the import players?
A: a multitude of excuses that will keep you asking questions as to why the same task is completed in different ways, for now we'll go down the question tree of 'why not the same'...

Q: could you create a draft process?
Q: couldn't you have a separate combine for import players?
Q: don't you currently conduct your own version of mini combines each year, though team specific?
Q: wouldn't it be more cost efficient and streamlined to have 1 league combine/try out rather than many individual team combines/workouts?
Q: couldn't you have import players elect to participate in a formal draft, as the NFL does?
Q: wouldn't this process be more efficient? cost effective for each team?
Q: wouldn't this help to identify those players that would consider playing in Canada?

then when you focus on the current, alternate process you start with questions such as:
Q: why is there a need for a negotiation list?
Q: what benefits does the list provide the team or league?
Q: how do you add a player?
Q: who has access to the list?
Q: do you notify a player when they have been added to the list? why or why not?
Q: how often does the list change?
Q: how long does a player stay on the list?

I'll stop here for now and let you ponder your own questions and what the answer to my small sample questions may be and I'll be back later to give you my thoughts to what the answers are and why...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 15, 2019, 07:09:21 PM
No, I'm telling you that BLM is a top tier QB, his backup isn't good enough so giving him reps doesn't make any sense.

You're talking about giving any backup QB reps. I'm talking about giving promising backup QB's reps.

How do you know Arbuckle isn't a quality back up before he gets a chance for meaningful reps?

That's the catch 22 for all back ups, QB's and otherwise.

If Nichols didn't get injured in TC would Streveler have seen the field and shown what he could do?



Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 15, 2019, 07:21:21 PM
honestly, we are both right to varying degrees... but you hit the nail on the head when you pointed out that the ultimate problem is the revenue that dictates the SMS... because the SMS is what dictates the need for a negotiation list as it is the tool they use to manage cost... not only is it a tool to manage cost, it can be used to strategically to keep your opponents from getting better...

obviously you're a smart person, and I don't believe for a second that you are naive enough to actually believe that quarterbacks are the only position immune from the 'want' to continue playing ball, to be a professional athlete, or their 'belief' that they are just one stop away from making it, that they are different and will beat the system...  they are just like the other thousands of players, just fewer of them...

I made my money, and I made a lot of it, as a problem solver... taking complex problems or operations and coming up with better or more cost effective ways to address the issue, and or, yield better results... it's really not that hard to do, it's just a matter of asking the right questions to understand where and why the current process is flawed, basically... the first question I would always ask myself is 'why is the current process in place?'... also, with any problem there are a multitude of 'why don't you do this?' or 'why haven't you tried that?' questions that will identify road blocks, bottle necks, challenges, conflicting operations, etc., related to the solving the problem... these questions will lead you to 100's of other questions that will ultimately be used to successfully understand what the desired results are and the best way to achieve them.

so, as will every off season there is conversation related to finding players, both success and failure...'finding players' is just part of the problem for a team, because there are a lot of other considerations to be made in order to acquire a player that are not always obvious at first glance to most fans. But, it is the overall goal, as simplistic as it is, that we tell the story...

so, the first and most obvious question is "how do you acquire players today?" which will lead you to eventually ask "what is a negotiation list?" which will yield a multitude of questions that ultimately will identify the team's current methodology, related needs /goals and desired results... so let's start asking questions because it doesn't take long to get where we're going..

Q: how do you acquire players?
A: We draft Canadian players through a formal draft process and we sign import players from a negotiation list we maintain.

Q: why is there 2 different ways of acquiring players, if the draft process works for Canadian talent why don't you use the same for the import players?
A: a multitude of excuses that will keep you asking questions as to why the same task is completed in different ways, for now we'll go down the question tree of 'why not the same'...

Q: could you create a draft process?
Q: couldn't you have a separate combine for import players?
Q: don't you currently conduct your own version of mini combines each year, though team specific?
Q: wouldn't it be more cost efficient and streamlined to have 1 league combine/try out rather than many individual team combines/workouts?
Q: couldn't you have import players elect to participate in a formal draft, as the NFL does?
Q: wouldn't this process be more efficient? cost effective for each team?
Q: wouldn't this help to identify those players that would consider playing in Canada?

then when you focus on the current, alternate process you start with questions such as:
Q: why is there a need for a negotiation list?
Q: what benefits does the list provide the team or league?
Q: how do you add a player?
Q: who has access to the list?
Q: do you notify a player when they have been added to the list? why or why not?
Q: how often does the list change?
Q: how long does a player stay on the list?

I'll stop here for now and let you ponder your own questions and what the answer to my small sample questions may be and I'll be back later to give you my thoughts to what the answers are and why...


That's a month long conversation and can't be answered in a few posts.

CFL teams work out or bring in mini camps or to TC's hundreds of players. Players signed before TC don't always make it to TC as new candidates are found as replacements etc etc. That doesn't all happen on one day as players drafted are released, not drafted or released before or during NFL TC's.

So I see no advantage to drafting imports or any workable way around all those moving pieces.

The NFL draws some of our talented nationals as well as our talented imports. The CFL isn't " drawing " any player to the league in a similar way due to the financial issue.

It might surprise you to know that former NFL 1st round draft picks have played in Winnipeg. Check out Rod Hill and Perry Tuttle to name a couple.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: TBURGESS on January 15, 2019, 07:47:21 PM
How do you know Arbuckle isn't a quality back up before he gets a chance for meaningful reps?

That's the catch 22 for all back ups, QB's and otherwise.

If Nichols didn't get injured in TC would Streveler have seen the field and shown what he could do?
It doesn't matter if I think Arbuckle is a quality QB, although I don't think he is from the little I've seen of him. What matters is that the Calgary coaches don't have enough confidence in him to give him playing time AND they have a top QB who is winning anyway.

If Nichols wasn't injured, we wouldn't have seen Streveler in anything but short yardage. Maybe a half in the last game. That wouldn't have been enough for me to say if he has potential or not. I'm not his coach. I'm not at practice. I don't know what plays are called or what reads he made or missed. In short, we wouldn't be having this 'conversation'. However, the coaches would have all that info and more so they should be able to see if the potential was there or not.

Now that fans, like me and you, have seen Streveler play, we can make up our own minds as to how much potential he has. We obviously differ in our assessments. We likely differ in our assessments of Nichols too.

I don't believe in giving a backup QB reps to be 'fair' or to put in a JAG (Just Another Guy) to get experience. I do believe in putting in a guy with potential to get experience and to give backup QB's short yardage for both experience and less wear and tear on the starter. I also believe that when your starting QB has 75 yards passing in 3 quarters and your backup has shown potential, you put the backup in to see if they can turn the game around.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 15, 2019, 07:54:11 PM
Teams don't sign players they feel don't have potential. What the Calgary coaches have seen of Arbuckle in practice we don't know. He could be released before TC even if BLM isn't returning.

Giving a back up reps is not a matter " to be fair ". It's a matter that starters inevitably get injured. Getting game reps is part of the development. Yes it's a slippery slope.

Perfect example for Winnipeg was the need to start Dinwiddie in the 2007 Grey Cup with not enough game reps during the season.

Glenn had 624 attempts. Dinwiddie had 24. Bombers only had 10 wins during the 2007 in a weaker east division. I doubt Glenn played well during every game that season.



Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Pigskin on January 15, 2019, 08:31:39 PM
If Nichols doesn't get injured of course we never see Strev17. But Nichols did and we all know Strev17 can play. I think he will come into camp with a great understanding of the CFL and our O, and will be ready to jump in at anytime of the game.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 15, 2019, 10:08:52 PM
If Nichols doesn't get injured of course we never see Strev17. But Nichols did and we all know Strev17 can play. I think he will come into camp with a great understanding of the CFL and our O, and will be ready to jump in at anytime of the game.

No argument there. Streveler skills should be utilized whether Nichols is playing well or not. He adds a different dimension and defenses will need to game plan for him as well.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: TBURGESS on January 15, 2019, 11:38:28 PM
Teams don't sign players they feel don't have potential. What the Calgary coaches have seen of Arbuckle in practice we don't know. He could be released before TC even if BLM isn't returning.

Giving a back up reps is not a matter " to be fair ". It's a matter that starters inevitably get injured. Getting game reps is part of the development. Yes it's a slippery slope.

Perfect example for Winnipeg was the need to start Dinwiddie in the 2007 Grey Cup with not enough game reps during the season.

Glenn had 624 attempts. Dinwiddie had 24. Bombers only had 10 wins during the 2007 in a weaker east division. I doubt Glenn played well during every game that season.
Teams sign lots of players they think have potential who don't make the team or who don't look good when they have to play.

QB's may or may not get injured. It's not inevitable.

There were at least a few times that the team coulda, woulda, shoulda, given Dinwiddie some reps. Still wouldn't have been enough to get him ready for the Grey Cup.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 16, 2019, 12:12:28 AM
No argument there. Streveler skills should be utilized whether Nichols is playing well or not. He adds a different dimension and defenses will need to game plan for him as well.

Great to see O'Shea accepting this plan and allowing Strev. plenty of extra reps. in the W.S.F. game, I never thought I'd see the day.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: dd on January 16, 2019, 12:42:52 AM
Exactly, coaches are idiots, they actually get paid to put the right people in places to succeed. This isn't youth league football. A Qb doesn't 'get' a chance to get into a game to show what he can do, he 'earns' that chance by showing the coaches through practice performance that they are ready. If a backup isn't put into a game, obviously the coaches don't think its in anyone's best interest to throw him in to get crushed.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Nic16 on January 16, 2019, 03:34:47 AM
Loved Randle?s play and leadership over his time with the BB, but unfortunately his play did have a noticeable drop off this past year.

He would have been a good FCB, but making too much $$ for that.

I see Sayles getting moved to BCB and one of Humes, Fenner or Alexander (if signed) moving to BHB.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 16, 2019, 05:59:01 PM
Teams sign lots of players they think have potential who don't make the team or who don't look good when they have to play.

QB's may or may not get injured. It's not inevitable.

There were at least a few times that the team coulda, woulda, shoulda, given Dinwiddie some reps. Still wouldn't have been enough to get him ready for the Grey Cup.

List the starting QB's that haven't been injured and those that have been injured. It's as inevitable as the sun coming up tomorrow.

QB's that aren't good enough still manage to stick on CFL rosters for multiple years. Just look at the back ups in the CFL.



Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: TBURGESS on January 16, 2019, 10:56:39 PM
List the starting QB's that haven't been injured and those that have been injured. It's as inevitable as the sun coming up tomorrow.

QB's that aren't good enough still manage to stick on CFL rosters for multiple years. Just look at the back ups in the CFL.

Last year, none of Reilly, BLM, Harris, Masoli or Jennings got hurt bad enough to miss games, so no, it's not inevitable.

Pocket QB's Nichols, Collaros (Not a running QB any more), Ray, Lulay (While in the pocket) and Willy all got hurt and missed multiple games, so it's not that running QB's get hurt significantly more often than pocket passers.

We're not talking about sticking on a roster. We're talking about a backup QB who is a viable QB in his own right. Someone who can take the reins during the game, not just in an emergency.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: fuzzy on January 18, 2019, 02:28:49 AM
Ian Wild release tonight. Another long time veteran release to make cap room.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 18, 2019, 06:57:07 AM
That's a month long conversation and can't be answered in a few posts.

CFL teams work out or bring in mini camps or to TC's hundreds of players. Players signed before TC don't always make it to TC as new candidates are found as replacements etc etc. That doesn't all happen on one day as players drafted are released, not drafted or released before or during NFL TC's.

So I see no advantage to drafting imports or any workable way around all those moving pieces.

The NFL draws some of our talented nationals as well as our talented imports. The CFL isn't " drawing " any player to the league in a similar way due to the financial issue.

It might surprise you to know that former NFL 1st round draft picks have played in Winnipeg. Check out Rod Hill and Perry Tuttle to name a couple.


you are absolutely correct in all of your statements, the most driving point though is financial issues...

I'll start by saying that everything below is merely my opinion, my own answers to questions that I have arrived at regarding the negotiation list and why it exists and how its used. I'm a pretty simple person and believe that most processes can be less complicated than most make them... so, why the complicated processes? well, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... it's probably a duck...  and, as with most problems/topics, the obvious answer is generally the right answer... so these are my answers for your consideration...

Q: why is there a need for a negotiation list?

because the CFL had decided to forgo a formal draft process for NCAA players as there had to be a vehicle in place in order for teams to 'claim' a player and sign them to a player's contract.

Q: what benefits does the list provide the team or league?

I believe that the teams would want you to believe that it is the reward for identifying and finding talent before their competitors do and the negotiation list gives them first opportunity at signing that found talent.  Also, given the nature of players wanting to try the NFL first, it's hard to determine what the actual pool of players can be. While in part, this is true, however, what the list actually provides is the opportunity for a team to be financially viable in the CFL. Because, unlike the scenario presented by a conventional formal draft process, where once a player is drafted the team immediately enters into contract negotiations and either a player is signed or not. A negotiation list allows a team to claim the rights to a player and then defer any contract talks until such time as a team wants to. More importantly, once being placed on a negotiation list you are no longer considered a free agent and the player loses his ability to test the market and sign for what would be considered market value. So, teams have the ability to offer any player on the negotiation list no more than league minimum and the player must accept this amount or not be allowed to play in the CFL for 1 year. As by league rule, the team only has to offer a 'fair' amount, it's hard to argue that the minimum isn't 'fair' when the league has almost 100% of their new import players agreeing to the same terms. The teams have all of the leverage as it is basically either a sign or don't blame option for the player and given the window of opportunity a player has in any league it's one they basically have to accept to stay relevant.

Q: how do you add a player?

Players are added by simply notifying the league that you want to add a player to your list. Players can be added any time and as often as a team wants to modify their negotiation list, the only stipulation is that they met first time/rookie player qualifications and that their list does not exceed 45 players.

Q: who has access to the list?

This is the most interesting and as far as I'm concerned telling of the negotiation list. Growing up my mama always told me that 'those with nothing to hide, hide nothing'... mama is pretty smart, lol... When this topic first came up I thought, 'well, only the league has access to each team's list because they don't want other teams, the competition, to know who they like or have found, so it's kept in secrecy'... so wrong... in fact, until recently, the competition is the only other entity that the list is shared with! today each team is required to provide 10 names of the 45 on their list to be made public twice a year. So, as to not ruin the next question, I'll leave this answer at this and go further into it on the next one...

Q: do you notify a player when they have been added to the list? why or why not?

No, a player is not notified when added to a list. Why not? because it would weaken a team's position with the player in question. If players knew that they were on a team's negotiation list that could force the hand of the team by demanding they be offered a contract or being removed from that team's list and essentially become a free agent, one who would be able to shop his services to the highest bidder. This could ruin the CFL financially as SMS cap is not enough for a team to have to participate in an open free agent market for all players. The CFL has to have the ability to sign players for the league minimum in order to survive. They have the luxury now of notify a player that they have interest when they choose to and are able to sign them for league minimum or they can't play. Simple as that...

Also, adding players to your negotiation list can be as much strategy as it is desire for any particular player. For example, I may not have an immediate need for receiver talent, however, I don't want my competition to be able to improve their team because I have to play them, and beat them, in order to be successful. So, with 45 available slots on a list it goes without saying there is opportunity here to block your competition from 'catching up' to you in certain areas of the game.

Think about it, at any point and time there are 405 players on negotiation lists across the league. One would assume that these 405 names represent the most talented players that may be or could become available as a player for the league. Now you only have access to 45 of these players, or basically 11% of the entire body of players sitting on these list. There are only 2 viable reasons for a player's name to land on one of these list, either they can help your team, or, hurt your team by playing for someone else.

While I'll admit that the driving force behind the list is creating the ability to sign players at the league minimum, which is required in order for teams to exist financially. But to think that given the number of slots available on a list, and the competitive nature of the league, that some, if not all, also use the list for a competitive advantage in as much to stock pile talent as to keep talent from signing with others. To think otherwise would be naive, to say the least...

Now some would say that how could such a practice exist in a league that has player representation? Good question, I asked myself the same question... to me it boils down to this, that as a matter of practice the CFLPA knows that concessions have to be made in order for players and teams to have an arrangement that overall is acceptable to both parties in order for a league to exist. Given the nature of the league and the desire to promote national talent, concessions are given in the area of import talent and will continue to do so until such time as supply of import talent no longer exceeds league demands.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: theaardvark on January 18, 2019, 03:45:55 PM
Not so sure I agree with the last point.  All a player needs to do to find out if he is on a neg list is try to get a tryout with a team.  If the teams says they can't, you know you aren't on their list.  Next team, until either every team has declined (meaning you aren't on any list), two have accepted (meaning you aren't on anyone's list) or one team accepts (meaning you either aren't on anyone's neg list, or you are on theirs). 

Not seeing how it is an issue, the Manzeil situation sort of sums it up, except for the special dispensation needed to get him into te league at all.  Once that was settled, Ham was forced to offer him a deal.  And there is no 2 ways about it, all that contract needs to be is a league min deal (min salary, 2 years).  You can choose not to accept it, but you remain property of that team for as long as they keep you on their neg list, or you complete your 2 years.

So there is no downside to revealing information any player can easily discern, or that any other CFL team already has.  All it does is limit speculation in the media, and by fans, and prevents fans of players from lobbying on their behalf with the team that holds their rights.  Teams retain the 2 year ELC rights to any player on their neg list, and have those 2 years to decide what to do with that player.  And the player has a job to do in proving that he is worth more than an ELC and extend with the team.  If he feels like he is worth more (Jennings, Wilder) they can hold out (team retains rights), or decide to quit (team retains rights). 

I've never understood any reason to not release full neg lists.  It would add a lot to offseason discussion, and inseason speculation on potential incoming players.  The only downside I could see would be exposing GM's mindsets... like showing Jones still had Vince Young on their list... stuff like that could be embarrassing. 


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on January 18, 2019, 03:53:30 PM
Ian Wild release tonight. Another long time veteran release to make cap room.

I'm not really sure that's a cap room move. More like a roster space one. I don't really know how he dressed for as many games as he did last year. Good guy and all that but what he brought to the table sure declined over the years.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: booch on January 18, 2019, 03:57:18 PM
its both...his roughly from what heard 85-90k salary will be replaced with a 54800 minimum salary guy as his roster spot as a ST'er and situational defensive guy and the extra 30..35k will go towards an extension...or 2 somewhere


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on January 18, 2019, 04:03:27 PM
its both...his roughly from what heard 85-90k salary will be replaced with a 54800 minimum salary guy as his roster spot as a ST'er and situational defensive guy and the extra 30..35k will go towards an extension...or 2 somewhere

I mean sure, but even if Wild was making the minimum I don't think he'd be a Blue Bomber in 2019.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 18, 2019, 04:28:52 PM
I mean sure, but even if Wild was making the minimum I don't think he'd be a Blue Bomber in 2019.

Depends if they think Wilson is a better option if they can't re-sign JSK, it's certain that he is the cheaper option but I don't think his play showed us that he is better than Wild.

I like the look of this year's "Jones".

https://youtu.be/aosXs5LxXhM (https://youtu.be/aosXs5LxXhM)



Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: GCn19 on January 18, 2019, 04:43:22 PM
Depends if they think Wilson is a better option if they can't re-sign JSK, it's certain that he is the cheaper option but I don't think his play showed us that he is better than Wild.

I like the look of this year's "Jones".

https://youtu.be/aosXs5LxXhM (https://youtu.be/aosXs5LxXhM)



Wilson started when JSK went down and in the playoffs so it appears the Bombers do think he is a better option than Wild.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 18, 2019, 04:59:06 PM
Wilson started when JSK went down and in the playoffs so it appears the Bombers do think he is a better option than Wild.

I know Wild started in the W.S.F. but you might be right about the W.F.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 18, 2019, 05:09:24 PM
I know Wild started in the W.S.F. but you might be right about the W.F.

They each only had 1 DT. Wilson is another potential free agent and I'm not really expecting him back either.  Hasn't yet impressed me. Time to add competition and start from scratch if JSK isn't back.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 19, 2019, 07:12:32 PM
Not so sure I agree with the last point.  All a player needs to do to find out if he is on a neg list is try to get a tryout with a team.  If the teams says they can't, you know you aren't on their list.  Next team, until either every team has declined (meaning you aren't on any list), two have accepted (meaning you aren't on anyone's list) or one team accepts (meaning you either aren't on anyone's neg list, or you are on theirs). 

Not seeing how it is an issue, the Manzeil situation sort of sums it up, except for the special dispensation needed to get him into te league at all.  Once that was settled, Ham was forced to offer him a deal.  And there is no 2 ways about it, all that contract needs to be is a league min deal (min salary, 2 years).  You can choose not to accept it, but you remain property of that team for as long as they keep you on their neg list, or you complete your 2 years.

So there is no downside to revealing information any player can easily discern, or that any other CFL team already has.  All it does is limit speculation in the media, and by fans, and prevents fans of players from lobbying on their behalf with the team that holds their rights.  Teams retain the 2 year ELC rights to any player on their neg list, and have those 2 years to decide what to do with that player.  And the player has a job to do in proving that he is worth more than an ELC and extend with the team.  If he feels like he is worth more (Jennings, Wilder) they can hold out (team retains rights), or decide to quit (team retains rights). 

I've never understood any reason to not release full neg lists.  It would add a lot to offseason discussion, and inseason speculation on potential incoming players.  The only downside I could see would be exposing GM's mindsets... like showing Jones still had Vince Young on their list... stuff like that could be embarrassing. 

for starters, I'm not sure how you can obtain the rights to a player without them first offering them, such as entry into a draft. then, when you do claim the player, don't you think it would make more sense to notify them and let them know as opposed to having him, or his agent, call as many as 9 different teams to check interest?

they don't tell the players, or the public, that a player is on the list because of the way it's used. You can be on a team's list and they may have no interest in you, or no immediate interest, so that keeps you from playing in the league because you can't go to another team that wants you now. this goes back to the scouting comments relative to finding receivers. There are over twice as many import players tied to these list than are actually playing in the league. As a team, you have access to 11% of the total, meaning 89% of the talent that one would assume would be the most desirable is unavailable to your team. So in essence, you help your team by hurting other teams, i.e. players stockpiled on your list that other teams can't have...

if the CFLPA actually represented the best interest of all CFL players, or potential players, they would never condone this type of process.  but like i said, as long as supply continues to exceed demand, nothing will change. It will be interesting to see if these new leagues gain any traction and how it effects current CFL practices...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: pjrocksmb on January 19, 2019, 11:49:18 PM
Thanks for the stability you have brought to our D

great player, great pro, good luck with future career and your life after football


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: fuzzy on January 20, 2019, 03:48:39 AM
Yeah, there's a few more guys from last years team like Thompkins and Flanders who will get that same call unfortunately as rosters are jungled prior to training camp and new higher touted prospects are signed.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 20, 2019, 10:59:43 AM
Yeah, there's a few more guys from last years team like Thompkins and Flanders who will get that same call unfortunately as rosters are jungled prior to training camp and new higher touted prospects are signed.

you're probably right about Thompkins, but statistically he was one of our best receivers... just didn't get that many targets...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 20, 2019, 02:33:16 PM
you're probably right about Thompkins, but statistically he was one of our best receivers... just didn't get that many targets...

Hard to say. They choose to keep Thompkins on the AR at the end of the season and pushed Flanders to the PR. I'm fairly certain there is no room for Flanders due to the ratio. Thompkins likely comes to TC but whether he makes the 2019 AR is not certain.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Pigskin on January 20, 2019, 04:25:53 PM
I think Thompskins will make it to TC. Flanders on the other hand is no longer a player we need.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: The Zipp on January 26, 2019, 12:24:01 AM
Found a new home in Ottawa...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: TBURGESS on January 26, 2019, 12:25:46 AM
Good for Randle. Hope he does well.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Ridermania on January 26, 2019, 03:03:16 AM
I think Randle will help the Ottawa secondary.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: blue_or_die on January 26, 2019, 03:42:28 AM
Glad he ended up out East.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 66 Chevelle on January 26, 2019, 04:27:21 AM
I think he will help any team's secondary...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: TecnoGenius on January 26, 2019, 07:17:19 AM
Glad he ended up out East.

This.  Now I can continue to cheer for Randle.  Until we end up in a GC vs OTT.  ;)

I wonder how much of a pay cut he took?  That will go a long way to revealing if WPG made a big mistake releasing him.  If he got a raise then we boo-booed big time.  My hunch is he's making $25k less.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: theaardvark on January 26, 2019, 04:03:18 PM
This.  Now I can continue to cheer for Randle.  Until we end up in a GC vs OTT.  ;)

I wonder how much of a pay cut he took?  That will go a long way to revealing if WPG made a big mistake releasing him.  If he got a raise then we boo-booed big time.  My hunch is he's making $25k less.


No way to know if we "boo boo'd" until he's on the field and playing.  IF he lights it up, we boo boo'd, regardless what he got paid.  If he stinks, we dodged a bullet...  until he plays, though... him, Leggett, Wild... we won't know if the right decision was made.  But like Wally, you make your decision on players like these and move on, no rearview mirror...


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Blue In BC on January 26, 2019, 05:02:18 PM
If not for the SMS issue I would have liked to have retained Randle. At worst he would have made a great DI since he can play any spot in the secondary or even SAM.

Do we have or will we have a younger, better, less expensive player? At the moment the most we can say is maybe.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Jesse on January 27, 2019, 03:15:25 AM
This.  Now I can continue to cheer for Randle.  Until we end up in a GC vs OTT.  ;)

I wonder how much of a pay cut he took?  That will go a long way to revealing if WPG made a big mistake releasing him.  If he got a raise then we boo-booed big time.  My hunch is he's making $25k less.


Lol. There is zero chance he got a raise.

We didn't boo boo. We couldn't afford him so we had to cut him loose. It sucks for a few different reasons but I don't think anyone expected him to be unemployed for long.


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on January 27, 2019, 06:01:42 PM
Now we can burn him when we play Ottawa. :)


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: 1chad on January 27, 2019, 06:50:55 PM
Glad he found a spot.  Wonder who is on the outs in Ott?


Title: Re: Chris Randle released today
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 28, 2019, 03:02:46 AM
Glad he found a spot.  Wonder who is on the outs in Ott?

Maybe they're done with Jonathan Rose after he shoved the ref. in the E.F..