Blue Bombers Forum

The Extra Point => Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Stretch on November 26, 2018, 02:47:27 PM



Title: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Stretch on November 26, 2018, 02:47:27 PM
Obviously there is a huge concern about the AAF being a huge drain on talent that would otherwise come to the CFL. However, the AAF starts in early February, right around the same time (if not just before) CFL Free Agency starts. So unless I'm missing something, aside from CFL teams releasing a bunch of their pending FA's early, how many could realistically sign with the new league?


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 26, 2018, 02:54:06 PM
Obviously there is a huge concern about the AAF being a huge drain on talent that would otherwise come to the CFL. However, the AAF starts in early February, right around the same time (if not just before) CFL Free Agency starts. So unless I'm missing something, aside from CFL teams releasing a bunch of their pending FA's early, how many could realistically sign with the new league?

I don't believe that any deal exists between the AAF and the CFL regarding player movement.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Stretch on November 26, 2018, 02:55:32 PM
I don't believe that any deal exists between the AAF and the CFL regarding player movement.

Fair enough. I guess I'm just wondering if all the concern about losing our existing players (e.g. Santos-Knox) is unwarranted, because in theory he couldn't sign there until about a week into their season.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 26, 2018, 03:09:57 PM
Fair enough. I guess I'm just wondering if all the concern about losing our existing players (e.g. Santos-Knox) is unwarranted, because in theory he couldn't sign there until about a week into their season.

I think he could sign there if he wants. While technically not a FA until February, I don't think there is anything stopping him from signing before that unless he has a contract bonus due pre-January 1st.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 26, 2018, 03:23:47 PM
Fair enough. I guess I'm just wondering if all the concern about losing our existing players (e.g. Santos-Knox) is unwarranted, because in theory he couldn't sign there until about a week into their season.

The timing of the CFL's negotiations with the CFLPA couldn't be worse, if it wasn't for that road block the teams could be busy signing the players they want to re-up.  Instead they're standing around with their hands in their pockets waiting while the players explore all the new options that are opening up.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on November 26, 2018, 06:38:20 PM
Pretty sure there is a reciprocal honoring of contracts...  it would get quite ugly if there wasn't. 

Will it be a draw?  Certainly a lot of Int. players would prefer to play in a country closer to home.  And depending on the AAFAL's drug testing policies, if they turn a blind eye to what we just legalized, it might be attractive too.  And there might be a better exposure for those still seeking an NFL sniff. 

The AFALA's benefit package is quite solid, which might get the CFL looking to implement something similar in the CBA negotiations.  I don't think a flat salary structure is in the cards for our league, but offering more benefits might make a difference in competing with that league.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Dodge and Burn on November 26, 2018, 06:42:54 PM
Pretty sure there is a reciprocal honoring of contracts...  it would get quite ugly if there wasn't. 

Will it be a draw?  Certainly a lot of Int. players would prefer to play in a country closer to home.  And depending on the AAFAL's drug testing policies, if they turn a blind eye to what we just legalized, it might be attractive too.  And there might be a better exposure for those still seeking an NFL sniff. 

The AFALA's benefit package is quite solid, which might get the CFL looking to implement something similar in the CBA negotiations.  I don't think a flat salary structure is in the cards for our league, but offering more benefits might make a difference in competing with that league.

Jonathan Heffney would agree to name one


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue girl on November 26, 2018, 09:07:24 PM
Obviously there is a huge concern about the AAF being a huge drain on talent that would otherwise come to the CFL. However, the AAF starts in early February, right around the same time (if not just before) CFL Free Agency starts. So unless I'm missing something, aside from CFL teams releasing a bunch of their pending FA's early, how many could realistically sign with the new league?
I believe that you're right. Players aren't free agents until February. Teams do release players early if they have NFL interest but I doubt that they would do this for the AAF.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Tehedra on November 26, 2018, 10:06:09 PM
I believe that you're right. Players aren't free agents until February. Teams do release players early if they have NFL interest but I doubt that they would do this for the AAF.

The difference is that the NFL and CFL have worked out an agreement and it is in the CBA as well, the AAF could give a flying rat's butt about the CFL and so without the agreement in place it would be difficult to enforce the contract and Free Agent policies. 


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 26, 2018, 11:13:09 PM
Pretty sure there is a reciprocal honoring of contracts...  it would get quite ugly if there wasn't. 

Will it be a draw?  Certainly a lot of Int. players would prefer to play in a country closer to home.  And depending on the AAFAL's drug testing policies, if they turn a blind eye to what we just legalized, it might be attractive too.  And there might be a better exposure for those still seeking an NFL sniff. 

The AFALA's benefit package is quite solid, which might get the CFL looking to implement something similar in the CBA negotiations.  I don't think a flat salary structure is in the cards for our league, but offering more benefits might make a difference in competing with that league.

There has been no indication by the AAF and CFL that any such agreement exists.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on November 26, 2018, 11:57:24 PM
There has been no indication by the AAF and CFL that any such agreement exists.

OK, I guess the I meant that there has been no declaration of war between the two, or a challenge from one to the other about suing over in force contracts. 

Neither has said "If we want a player, we're going to sign him, regardless of his non-NFL (which with both have an agreement) deal."

Now, here's something interesting I just read on their site...  they had 515 players under contract as of Oct 1.   That's 64 players a team already signed...  oops... Nov 1 they announced another 32 (and 6 waived)

Memphis (who has dibs on any bomber) already has over a hundred on thier roster... including Alex Ross and Chris Givens, the only names I recognize...

Maybe next year we will see some roster damage, but I think they're pretty much done before FA season starts... unless team grant early releases for AAF deals...
Makes you wonder if we will lose any non fringe players at all...



Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: fuzzy on November 27, 2018, 04:11:59 AM
Add to the list of AAF signings, 
L?Damian Washington and Trent Richardson Birmingham
Khalil Bass Atlanta
Mark Chapman Salt Lake City (Hamilton draft pick)
Sergio Castillo San Antonio

Mostly players who have run out of NFL and CFL options looking to keep the dream alive. Really happy for L'Damian Washington to get another chance. Great story.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: bigbuff33 on November 27, 2018, 12:58:45 PM
They'e signed 47 quarterbacks...there is a draft today for the QB's...and they have a contract with CBS Sports which will have Kurt Warner hosting the televised draft.
Bill Polian is head hauncho for the league...he's a highly respected football man...
Mike Reiley, Brad Childress, Steve Spurior are a few of the coaches...
If we start losing players like Jovan Santos Knox...that will really affect the quality of football in the CFL
Dave Naylor has said that league GM's are really concerned about finding players.
Being paid in American dollars and closer to home has CFL assistant coaches signing in the AAF...

I'm concerned...to say it's nothing to worry about is to bury your head in the sand.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 27, 2018, 01:05:21 PM
They'e signed 47 quarterbacks...there is a draft today for the QB's...and they have a contract with CBS Sports which will have Kurt Warner hosting the televised draft.
Bill Polian is head hauncho for the league...he's a highly respected football man...
Mike Reiley, Brad Childress, Steve Spurior are a few of the coaches...
If we start losing players like Jovan Santos Knox...that will really affect the quality of football in the CFL
Dave Naylor has said that league GM's are really concerned about finding players.
Being paid in American dollars and closer to home has CFL assistant coaches signing in the AAF...

I'm concerned...to say it's nothing to worry about is to bury your head in the sand.

This league will be defunct within 2 years... book it. Some articles already coming out that some of the league owners are concerned about the lack of ticket sales.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Stretch on November 27, 2018, 01:23:25 PM
This league will be defunct within 2 years... book it. Some articles already coming out that some of the league owners are concerned about the lack of ticket sales.

If it makes it to year two, it will be interesting to see how it does alongside the new XFL (which I presume would be playing around the same time).

I enjoy watching football just as much as anyone but you have to wonder if the appetite is there for these startup leagues, especially right after the Super Bowl. I mean, how many of us would watch and/or buy tickets for a new hockey league that went from late June to early September?


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: bluengold204 on November 27, 2018, 01:34:06 PM
Add to the list of AAF signings, 
L?Damian Washington and Trent Richardson Birmingham
Khalil Bass Atlanta
Mark Chapman Salt Lake City (Hamilton draft pick)
Sergio Castillo San Antonio

Mostly players who have run out of NFL and CFL options looking to keep the dream alive. Really happy for L'Damian Washington to get another chance. Great story.


Guess Chevelle will never return now.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 27, 2018, 01:39:44 PM
If it makes it to year two, it will be interesting to see how it does alongside the new XFL (which I presume would be playing around the same time).

I enjoy watching football just as much as anyone but you have to wonder if the appetite is there for these startup leagues, especially right after the Super Bowl. I mean, how many of us would watch and/or buy tickets for a new hockey league that went from late June to early September?

For sure. If the Manitoba Moose season started in June does that fuel any extra interest in them. Unlikely. The biggest problem that the AAF will face is that it will undeniably be bad football for the first half of the first season. It is impossible to take 60 fringe football players that are starting from scratch in the chemistry department and get them playing good football after a short TC. Offences will flounder, defences will have constant breakdowns and the product will be unwatchable. Fans will tune out quickly and the league will be dead. With "marquee" names at QB like Alex Ross or L'Damian Washington at receiver does anyone truly think this league will entertain for longer than an American's fleeting interest will allow? I would bet strongly against it. It will be a league of 8 teams that will all play football like the 2014 RedBlacks....if they are lucky.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on November 27, 2018, 02:15:00 PM
They'e signed 47 quarterbacks...there is a draft today for the QB's...and they have a contract with CBS Sports which will have Kurt Warner hosting the televised draft.
Bill Polian is head hauncho for the league...he's a highly respected football man...
Mike Reiley, Brad Childress, Steve Spurior are a few of the coaches...
If we start losing players like Jovan Santos Knox...that will really affect the quality of football in the CFL
Dave Naylor has said that league GM's are really concerned about finding players.
Being paid in American dollars and closer to home has CFL assistant coaches signing in the AAF...

I'm concerned...to say it's nothing to worry about is to bury your head in the sand.

Which ones?


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: bigbuff33 on November 27, 2018, 02:50:31 PM
Aards...I think you were right...there is an agreement in place to respect each other's contracts.
Dave Naylor, whom I respect a lot, indicated that lots of assistant coaches are heading back down south


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on November 27, 2018, 03:10:42 PM
Not sure what the break even is for this league, or if that is even a concern, but I can't se it being a star driven league.  Sure, Micheal Vick and Mike Singletary as coaches might bring some interest, but nobody is buying seats or PPV to watch Alex Ross and L'Damian Washington (OK, maybe one fan will, sorry Chevelle ;) )

Flat salaries means no stars.  These will be no-star teams to start, populated with players hoping to get back on the NFL radar.  Or for some, trying to avoid taking a job at Burger King. 

Will they strike gold with a "He hate me" marketing gem?  Will the "nothing else on" syndrome fuel viewership?  Will the sheer power of a Bill Polian or Charlie Ebersol carry the league?  I guess we will see, but I am seeing less and less threat to the CFL...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on November 27, 2018, 03:20:22 PM
Not sure what the break even is for this league, or if that is even a concern, but I can't se it being a star driven league.  Sure, Micheal Vick and Mike Singletary as coaches might bring some interest, but nobody is buying seats or PPV to watch Alex Ross and L'Damian Washington (OK, maybe one fan will, sorry Chevelle ;) )

Flat salaries means no stars.  These will be no-star teams to start, populated with players hoping to get back on the NFL radar.  Or for some, trying to avoid taking a job at Burger King. 

Will they strike gold with a "He hate me" marketing gem?  Will the "nothing else on" syndrome fuel viewership?  Will the sheer power of a Bill Polian or Charlie Ebersol carry the league?  I guess we will see, but I am seeing less and less threat to the CFL...

Actually, the league has mitigated this problem pretty slyly. Since players sign by region, it ensures that players playing on the teams are already familiar to the audience the team is trying to reach. Chevelle is an example of how incredibly simple but smart that strategy will likely be. Instead of Chevelle having to learn a new game, in a different country and all the roadblocks that come with streaming/viewing games down there, he'll be able to turn on the TV and watch 25+ players he probably recognizes from following college ball. It's smart, it's easy and it could very well work. We only know one Chevelle, but there are a ton of people in the US who love college football and would probably want to keep watching the star players who don't make it to the NFL.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on November 27, 2018, 03:33:04 PM
Actually, the league has mitigated this problem pretty slyly. Since players sign by region, it ensures that players playing on the teams are already familiar to the audience the team is trying to reach. Chevelle is an example of how incredibly simple but smart that strategy will likely be. Instead of Chevelle having to learn a new game, in a different country and all the roadblocks that come with streaming/viewing games down there, he'll be able to turn on the TV and watch 25+ players he probably recognizes from following college ball. It's smart, it's easy and it could very well work. We only know one Chevelle, but there are a ton of people in the US who love college football and would probably want to keep watching the star players who don't make it to the NFL.

For sure, it will create some familiarity.  But it will also cause some disparity.  Limiting your pool of players is not always a good thing. 

Will teams be allowed to trade players? 

This will actually make the co-ordinators a lot more important.  Their schemes are going to have to be the star players.  Game planning to have plug and play personnel. 

But it seems that the league really centres around the head coaches...


Ranking the Alliance of American Football Head Coaches
By Jim Weidner -July 12, 2018

The AAF (Alliance of American Football) are steamrolling their way to their opening kickoff on February 9, 2019. The brain trust behind the AAF have officially named the cities and venues each team will be playing in.  They have also named the head coaches who will lead each franchise. With the head coaches now named, it is time to take a look at each coach. Ranking the head coaches of the AAF.
Ranking the Alliance of American Football Head Coaches

When ranking the head coaches of the AAF, LWOS reviewed the background of each coach. Of course, professional head coaching experience played a big part in these rankings. But success at the college level also played a part. Here is how we ranked the AAF head coaches going into their inaugural season


Mike Martz, San Diego

Martz comes in at the top of this AAF head coaches ranking. He made a name for himself as the offensive coordinator, later the head coach, of the St. Louis Rams. That offense, nicknamed ?The Greatest Show on Turf?, helped lead the Rams to a Super Bowl victory in 1999. Because of the offense?s success, Martz was named the head coach when Dick Vermeil stepped away.

As head coach, Martz accumulated a 53-32 regular season record as well a 3-4 playoff record. Besides winning a Super Bowl as their offensive coordinator, he also led the Rams to a Super Bowl appearance in 2001.

Besides his time with the Rams, Martz served as offensive coordinator with Detroit Lions, San Francisco 49ers, and the Chicago Bears.


Steve Spurrier, Orlando

Known as the ?Head Ball Coach,? Spurrier made a name for himself in college football. He was the head coach for Duke University, the University of Florida, and the University of South Carolina. He is well-known for his time with the Gators. Spurrier was in charge of their offense, which earned the nickname ?Fun ?n? Gun? for its high octane passing attack. Under his guidance, he led the Gators to two national championship appearances, winning one of them in 1997. He also tutored quarterback Danny Wuerfell who won the Heisman Trophy that year.

During his time at Duke, Florida, and South Carolina, he achieved a 228-89-2 record.

Spurrier also brings experience as a head coach in the pro ranks. He was the head coach of the Tampa Bay Bandits of the USFL. During his three seasons in charge of the Bandits, he posted a 35-19 regular season record.

He also coached in the NFL with the Washington Redskins. He coached the Redskins for two seasons and posted a 12-20 record.


Brad Childress, Atlanta

Childress was the offensive coordinator for the Philadelphia Eagles from 1999-2005 under then head coach Andy Reid. His time under Reid helped him land the Minnesota Vikings head coaching position.

Childress coached the Vikings from 2006-2010 and registered a 39-25 regular season record. He also had a 1-2 playoff record as well. He helped guide the Vikings to an NFC Championship game appearance in 2009, which they lost to the New Orleans Saints.

The Vikings fired Childress 10 games into the 2010 season. After parting ways in Minnesota, he went on to become the offensive coordinator with the Cleveland Browns in 2012 and was an assistant under Reid with the Kansas City Chiefs from 2013-2017


Mike Riley, San Antonio

Like Spurrier, Riley is known for his work in college football. Riley spent 12 seasons as the head coach of the Oregon State Beavers. Oregon State was a dismal program before Riley arrived in 1997. But he helped engineer a massive turnaround. In his 12 seasons in charge of the Beavers, he posted a 93-80 record and helped lead the Beavers to eight bowl games.

Recently, Riley was the head coach of the University of Nebraska. He was in charge of the Cornhuskers for three seasons and posted a 19-19 record. He also led them to two bowl games, winning one and losing the other.

Although he is known for his time in college, Riley brings a vast amount of professional football experience. He has been a head coach in the NFL (San Diego Chargers), the World League of American Football (San Antonio Riders), and the CFL (Winnipeg Blue Bombers). While in charge of the Blue Bombers, he helped lead them to two Grey Cup Championships.


Rick Neuheisel, Phoenix

Although some might argue that Dennis Erickson should be ahead of Neuheisel in this ranking, we think otherwise. Although Erickson was a successful head coach in college football and has been a head coach in the NFL, he hasn?t posted a winning record since 2007.

Neuheisel has been a head coach at the Colorado, Washington, and UCLA. At those three universities, he posted an 87-59 record. He led his teams to eight bowl appearances posting a 5-3 mark in those games.

He also has spent some time in the NFL as an assistant. He was the Baltimore Ravens quarterbacks coach from 2005-2006 and was the Ravens offensive coordinator in 2007 before taking the UCLA head coaching position.


Dennis Erickson, Salt Lake City

Erickson has a very lengthy resume. He was the head coach at seven different universities (Idaho twice, Wyoming, Washington State, Miami, Oregon State, and Arizona State). His overall record in the college ranks is 179-96-1. He helped lead Miami to two national championships in 1989 and 1991.

He was also the head coach of the Seattle Seahawks and the 49ers. He totaled six seasons between those two teams, achieving a 40-56 regular season record. The Seahawks and 49ers never reached the playoffs under his guidance.


Mike Singletary, Memphis

Singletary was a gridiron legend as a player. The former Chicago Bears stalwart was a warrior playing middle linebacker. His play earned him a spot in Canton, Ohio at the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Singletary was the head coach of the 49ers from 2008-2010. During his three years, he accumulated an 18-22 record. His best season came in 2009 when he led the 49ers to an 8-8 record. The 49ers never made the playoffs during his tenure.

Along with his stay with the 49ers, he was also an assistant for the Ravens, Rams, and Vikings.


Tim Lewis, Birmingham

Lewis is the only person on this list who hasn?t been a head coach at any level.

Lewis was a former first-round pick by the Green Bay Packers back in 1983. He played in four seasons but had a promising career cut short by a neck injury.

Lewis has an extensive background as an assistant in the NFL. Along with being a defensive coordinator for the Pittsburgh Steelers and New York Giants, he was a defensive backs coach for Carolina Panthers, the Seahawks, the Atlanta Falcons, and most recently the 49ers.

Although Lewis might not have as much experience as the others coaches listed here, he is what this league should best represent. He is a coach that is looking for an opportunity and he will get that shot coaching in the AAF.



Not a bad list of coaches, they have to be getting paid...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: bigbuff33 on November 27, 2018, 03:53:34 PM
Have heard there is big money behind this league.
Impressive group of coaches


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on November 27, 2018, 04:07:28 PM
For sure, it will create some familiarity.  But it will also cause some disparity.  Limiting your pool of players is not always a good thing. 

Will teams be allowed to trade players? 

This will actually make the co-ordinators a lot more important.  Their schemes are going to have to be the star players.  Game planning to have plug and play personnel. 

But it seems that the league really centres around the head coaches...


I'm not sure how trades will work but I'm sure they'll be allowed. What do you mean "the league really centres around the head coaches"? Head coaches play an important role in any football league and that includes the NFL and the CFL. I doubt they'll be the faces of the franchise. They are incredibly recognizable figures that give the league credibility by association. For as much as I like Brad Childress and his work in Philly, for example, I'd still watch to see what he can do with the players he has. As for disparity, every league has disparity. The NFL and the CFL are no exception. The CFL even has some territorial rules (albeit for different reasons). It's why Andrew Harris played most of his career in BC.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: bigbuff33 on November 27, 2018, 04:21:54 PM
TSN Grey Cup ratings...DOWN 25%...
I barely watched any of it...
The Vikings, Green Bay game got higher ratings in Canada.

This is reality...not being a fear monger...
This league needs an immediate transfusion...Ratings down, attendance down in three major markets, AAF...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 27, 2018, 04:23:40 PM
A league is only as good as the product it puts on the field. While having star coaches will certainly help in recruitment, it won't make any of the players more recognizable to the vast majority of Americans. This league will not survive if it relies on the gates. It needs Ebersol to be able to sell this to the American TV viewing public and the sponsors to be able to survive. In the US there is just too much competition in that sector. The last time Polian attempted this he had the NFL's full financial support and resources...he doesn't have that this time. If this league doesn't immediately play good football the fans who are curious will never tune in again and that will be the first nail in their coffin.

 So many people, equally adept in business and football as Polian have tried time and time again to make this work. It fails because Americans at heart are elitists who will not support a B league.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 27, 2018, 04:25:51 PM
TSN Grey Cup ratings...DOWN 25%...
I barely watched any of it...
The Vikings, Green Bay game got higher ratings in Canada.

This is reality...not being a fear monger...
This league needs an immediate transfusion...Ratings down, attendance down in three major markets, AAF...


The CFL has survived and even prospered when other leagues have been around. It will make life more difficult for our GMs but in all honesty we, the fans of the CFL, will barely notice the difference. Ratings were down because Toronto was in the game last year and although the gate there is poor, they consistently rank among the top teams in viewership. Gates are poor in TO, but a lot of people tune in to watch them.

Every few years a new league pops up and the doomsayers come out, and then that league folds because they, for some odd reason, cannot figure out that Americans don't care about anything but NFL and their regional college alma maters sports programs. Putting 8 teams in 8 backwater locations is not going create any interest by the American population at large. At least the CFL has a country and a 100 years of tradition behind it. Leagues that start from scratch have no built in loyal fan base and that is why ALL the leagues have folded.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on November 27, 2018, 04:50:38 PM
I'm not sure how trades will work but I'm sure they'll be allowed. What do you mean "the league really centres around the head coaches"? Head coaches play an important role in any football league and that includes the NFL and the CFL. I doubt they'll be the faces of the franchise. They are incredibly recognizable figures that give the league credibility by association. For as much as I like Brad Childress and his work in Philly, for example, I'd still watch to see what he can do with the players he has. As for disparity, every league has disparity. The NFL and the CFL are no exception. The CFL even has some territorial rules (albeit for different reasons). It's why Andrew Harris played most of his career in BC.

From day one, the Ebersol/Polian connection has been marketed.  Once the teams were announced, it was the coaches that were front and centre.  Throwing out names like Singeltary, Childress, Spurier, Riley... that immediately sparked a "hey, maybe this will be legit".  

It is certainly not based on players at all... we know Mark Chapman signed in the AAF... any actually notable names that the general public in the US would know?


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on November 27, 2018, 06:20:46 PM
It will come down to marketing, having a "hook", and making a game day experience that will get the fans out.

The CFL was a gate oriented league, and the TSN deal changed that somewhat.  I don't think the AAF will be as much gate oriented, but the teams will definitely need gate money if they want black ink.  I wouldn't be surprised if they have a set up the league to break even on TV revenues alone... and let gate cover the stadium costs and profit. 


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue girl on November 27, 2018, 07:00:28 PM
It sounds like a league for players out of college who can't make the NFL. The coaches definitely give it some credibility but I wonder if it will be enough to attract fans.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on November 27, 2018, 07:08:30 PM
It sounds like a league for players out of college who can't make the NFL. The coaches definitely give it some credibility but I wonder if it will be enough to attract fans.
 

It will attract fans.  The question is, will it attract enough for a national TV contract, or just regional.  Will the have enough gate to sustain the teams, or will they have a token attendance. 

Heck, the Legends Football League has fans and a Fuse TV deal.  None of the players are getting paid $80k/year, I don't think the coaches are either... but they have fans and a TV deal...  it is an April - Sept league... so its just starting as teh AAF ends...

Photo for emphasis...

(https://www.lfl360.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/game-18.jpg)

 





Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 27, 2018, 07:39:07 PM
It will come down to marketing, having a "hook", and making a game day experience that will get the fans out.

The CFL was a gate oriented league, and the TSN deal changed that somewhat.  I don't think the AAF will be as much gate oriented, but the teams will definitely need gate money if they want black ink.  I wouldn't be surprised if they have a set up the league to break even on TV revenues alone... and let gate cover the stadium costs and profit. 

They can hope to set up the league to break even on TV revenues alone but they can't do it until they get people watching. CBS is not going to pay money out to float an entire league unless it brings big ratings which in turn brings the sponsorship. The only reason TSN pays the CFL as much as it does is because people in Canada watch it right across the nation. Ebersol will be picking up his chiclets after the board of directors beats him down if his contributions to this league exceed the revenue of the broadcasts. If Ebersol can't get enough people to tune in the TV deal will be dead in the water, just like when Ebersol yanked the rug from under the XFL for low ratings. Americans will not tune in to watch bad football played by NFL rejects. If the football quality is good they may have a shot but Americans will lead the bandwagon away from this league the first time a game turns out to be a stinker and the probability of it being very bad football in the beginning is very, very high. It would take a miracle for even the great coaches they have hired to build a roster from scratch and get them all running like a well oiled machine in their first few games.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue girl on November 27, 2018, 07:40:37 PM
 

It will attract fans.  The question is, will it attract enough for a national TV contract, or just regional.  Will the have enough gate to sustain the teams, or will they have a token attendance. 

Heck, the Legends Football League has fans and a Fuse TV deal.  None of the players are getting paid $80k/year, I don't think the coaches are either... but they have fans and a TV deal...  it is an April - Sept league... so its just starting as teh AAF ends...

Photo for emphasis...

(https://www.lfl360.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/game-18.jpg)

 




Judging by that picture I'm not sure that the fans are tuning in for the football.  ;)


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on November 27, 2018, 07:44:31 PM
From day one, the Ebersol/Polian connection has been marketed.  Once the teams were announced, it was the coaches that were front and centre.  Throwing out names like Singeltary, Childress, Spurier, Riley... that immediately sparked a "hey, maybe this will be legit".  

It is certainly not based on players at all... we know Mark Chapman signed in the AAF... any actually notable names that the general public in the US would know?

Put it to you this way, the players playing in the AAF will be more familiar to their audiences at the start of the season than rookie imports in the CFL and most rookie national players too. The vast majority of new CFL players are completely unheard of to CFL fans. Even funnier, many come with substantial school records and extremely prominent college careers. You'll often hear of guys signed who's the leading X at school Y and it gets a big ol' shrug from the average CFL fan. For example, we all know about Darvin Adams' time in the CFL, but very few CFL fans could honestly say they knew he played for Auburn, caught passes from Cam Newton, was the Outback Bowl MVP in 2010, a SEC Champion and a BCS National Champion.

In the AAF, you'll have a guy like Aaron Murray. Who's Aaron Murray? You have no idea. Most people in Georgia could tell you he's the quarterback who holds the SEC record for most passing touchdowns and passing yards, ahead of guys like Payton Manning and Matt Stafford.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 27, 2018, 07:47:39 PM
Put it to you this way, the players playing in the AAF will be more familiar to their audiences at the start of the season than rookie imports in the CFL and most rookie national players too. The vast majority of new CFL players are completely unheard of to CFL fans. Even funnier, many come with substantial school records and extremely prominent college careers. You'll often hear of guys signed who's the leading X at school Y and it gets a big ol' shrug from the average CFL fan. For example, we all know about Darvin Adams' time in the CFL, but very few CFL fans could honestly say they knew he played for Auburn, caught passes from Cam Newton, was the Outback Bowl MVP in 2010, a SEC Champion and a BCS National Champion.

In the AAF, you'll have a guy like Aaron Murray. Who's Aaron Murray? You have no idea. Most people in Georgia could tell you he's the quarterback who holds the SEC record for most passing touchdowns and passing yards, ahead of guys like Payton Manning and Matt Stafford.

That's great...but when he throws 5 interceptions in his first game because he isn't on the same page as his receiving corps yet his fans will call him a bum who has lost it since college....and the snowball effect will begin.
Every year we get players we have never heard of but have a core group that we have learned to love. A league starting from scratch has none of that goodwill with their fan base to fall back on. The fans will judge the new league solely on the quality of their play. It better be good. What quality should they expect? Probably something similar to the 2018 Argos and Alouettes playing a preseason game. Think the American viewing audience will stick around for that?


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on November 27, 2018, 08:03:34 PM
That's great...but when he throws 5 interceptions in his first game because he isn't on the same page as his receiving corps yet his fans will call him a bum who has lost it since college....and the snowball effect will begin.
Every year we get players we have never heard of but have a core group that we have learned to love. A league starting from scratch has none of that goodwill with their fan base to fall back on.

I'm not saying it's going to be a runaway success. I'm saying that it's set up just about as smartly as you could set-up a new league. The fans will know of many of the players, and they will be recognizable. Coaching is solid. Obviously starting a new league is very difficult, but in spite of the slam-jam echo chamber in this thread, they have obviously learned from the mistakes of the past and they're doing their best to correct them. An integrated fantasy experience and the players receiving a cut from betting revenue is innovative and probably pretty effective. They'll be self-promoting like their cheque depends on it, because it does. This at a time when the CFL is looking for innovative pathways to grow its presence too. It might still fail, but it's not guaranteed like many here seem to think. The hardest part will be getting people to invest emotionally and care about the Orlando Apollos or Salt Lake Stallions. It might be a bit of an uphill climb, but new brands are born all the time. If they have money to market half as good as the NFL, it probably works great.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Norm W on November 27, 2018, 08:15:21 PM
Guess Chevelle will never return now.

Chevelle was L'Damian Washington...  :o Think about that until TC!


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on November 27, 2018, 09:13:35 PM
Chevelle was L'Damian Washington...  :o Think about that until TC!

Whuuuutt???  You got to be joking?


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: kkc60 on November 28, 2018, 03:49:23 AM
From day one, the Ebersol/Polian connection has been marketed.  Once the teams were announced, it was the coaches that were front and centre.  Throwing out names like Singeltary, Childress, Spurier, Riley... that immediately sparked a "hey, maybe this will be legit".  

It is certainly not based on players at all... we know Mark Chapman signed in the AAF... any actually notable names that the general public in the US would know?
Oh yeah. Aaron Murray, Denard Robinson, Bishop Sankey, Trent Richardson, Nick Folk, Christian Hackenberg, BJ Daniels, Scott Tolzien are all guys who at some point either were widely talked about college or NFL players for good or bad. And that's just what I know. I'm sure there are plenty of other players that Americans would know from college football that I am unfamiliar with.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue newt on November 28, 2018, 05:59:03 AM
Not sure what the correlation is between Legends and AAF  ???  Last I remember hearing, those ladies don't make a penny, they play because they want to play football and that's what's available to them.  The league doesn't need to worry too much about the size of their crowds or TV audience because the budget is pretty close to zero.  They play in hockey helmets, for gosh sake!  Pretty sure if the AAF was the male version of that, we'd be losing 0% of players to it.  The AAF is going to need significantly larger appeal than that to balance its budget.

I think the AAF will have regional appeal in the cities that have a team.  As many mentioned, having the local college football players that the crowd is already familiar with there is a smart approach.  Can't see it picking up too much traction elsewhere, though.  I suspect it may be a moderately successful regional league.  There's so much football already in the US, that I find it hard to believe that there's space for another league on a grand scale.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Ridermania on November 28, 2018, 02:16:34 PM
The Alliance of American Football begins its inaugural season in 74 days, and on Tuesday night the league held its first-ever Protect or Pick Quarterback Draft.

Draft rules
Dozens of players have already signed to the league's eight franchises, but quarterbacks are assigned in the draft. Any quarterback already signed to the Alliance is eligible to be selected in the draft, which uses a "Protect or Pick" format. All signed quarterbacks are also allocated to the team located closest to their college or last NFL or CFL team before the draft.

Round 1
San Diego Fleet: Josh Johnson (protected)
Atlanta Legends: Aaron Murray (protected)
Memphis Express: Troy Cook (protected)
San Antonio Commanders: Dustin Vaughan (protected)
Birmingham Iron: Luis Perez
Arizona Hotshots: Trevor Knight
Orlando Apollos: Garrett Gilbert
Salt Lake Stallions: Josh Woodrum

Round 2
San Diego Fleet: Mike Bercovici
Birmingham Iron: Blake Sims
Arizona Hotshots: John Wolford
Orlando Apollos: Stephen Morris
Atlanta Legends: Matt Simms
Salt Lake Stallions: B.J. Daniels
Memphis Express: Christian Hackenberg
San Antonio Commanders: Marquise Williams

Round 3
San Antonio Commanders: Logan Woodside
Memphis Express: Brandon Silvers
Salt Lake Stallions: Austin Allen
Atlanta Legends: Peter Pujals
Orlando Apollos: Austin Appleby
Arizona Hotshots: Quinn McQueary
Birmingham Iron: Scott Tolzien
San Diego Fleet: Philip Nelson

Round 4
San Antonio Commanders: Dalton Sturm
Memphis Express: Zach Mettenberger
Salt Lake Stallions: Matt Linehan
Atlanta Legends: Justin Holman
Orlando Apollos: Kevin Anderson
Arizona Hotshots: Jack Heneghan
Birmingham Iron: Alek Torgersen
San Diego Fleet: Alex Ross

HEAD COACHES

Atlanta Legends: Brad Childress (Michael Vick is the offensive coordinator)
Arizona Hotshots: Rick Neuheisel
Birmingham Iron: Tim Lewis
Memphis Express: Mike Singletary
Orlando Apollos: Steve Spurrier
Salt Lake Stallions: Dennis Erickson
San Antonio Commanders: Mike Riley
San Diego Fleet: Mike Martz

CBS will air the league's debut game on Feb. 9, 2019, one week after Super Bowl LIII on CBS. The network will also carry the Alliance of American Football's championship game on the final weekend of April 2019. One regular-season Alliance game will air exclusively on CBS Sports Network each week as well. You can view the entire AAF schedule here.

The league will have eight teams in Atlanta, Orlando, San Diego, San Antonio, Memphis, Birmingham, Salt Lake City and Phoenix. Each team will have 50 players each and will be built primarily through a regionally based draft. To differentiate the Alliance of American Football from its competitors, there will be no TV timeouts and 60 percent fewer commercials. Other differences will include no kickoffs and instead of onside kicks, the trailing team will receive the ball on their own 35-yard line facing fourth down and 10. There will also be a 30-second play clock and mandatory two-point conversion attempts after touchdowns.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Stretch on November 28, 2018, 02:32:59 PM
The names of a few of those QB's ring a bell, but not enough for me to remember where they played their college ball. Then again, I'm not necessarily part of their target audience.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Jesse on November 28, 2018, 03:05:21 PM
The names of a few of those QB's ring a bell, but not enough for me to remember where they played their college ball. Then again, I'm not necessarily part of their target audience.

I think this was very positive for those who were worried about this league affecting the CFL.

First of all, I did not hear about this until it was half complete and someone made fun of it on twitter. There is no attention around this at all.

Second, all of these guys have already been through the ringer. They've had their NFL, and in some cases CFL, shots and would not have any other opportunity to play if not for this new league. There is no competition for guys that we are looking at. The QB play as a whole looks like it will be sub par at best.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on November 28, 2018, 03:35:48 PM
OK, a league of 8 teams with 50 players each, and over 500 players are signed...

I'm not a supergenius, but that doesn't really compute.

How does this reconcile with the 3 year guaranteed deals worth $250k plus benefits?  I guess that's a guarantee once you make the team, and keep your job?  Looks like the teams are going to have the ability to cut and sign players like the NFL or CFL...  so nothing "more secure" about it.  Short season and a eyeball on them from the NFL will be attractive, but I'm starting to wonder about the promises of the contracts that were our major concerns originally.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: gobombersgo on November 28, 2018, 03:37:32 PM
San Diego going with former Bombers Alex Ross and Philip Nelson.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: kkc60 on November 28, 2018, 03:52:19 PM
I think this was very positive for those who were worried about this league affecting the CFL.

First of all, I did not hear about this until it was half complete and someone made fun of it on twitter. There is no attention around this at all.

Second, all of these guys have already been through the ringer. They've had their NFL, and in some cases CFL, shots and would not have any other opportunity to play if not for this new league. There is no competition for guys that we are looking at. The QB play as a whole looks like it will be sub par at best.
It was televised in the US.
I think the QB play will be interesting. Theres such a wide variety of QBs. Some are NFL journeymen, some are draft flops and some are CFL fallouts.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 28, 2018, 04:03:37 PM
The draft looked like it was held in a bingo hall. Just screamed 2nd rate...as did most of the QBs selected. IF this is the level of QB play they will have, this league is a dead duck.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 28, 2018, 04:26:54 PM
OK, a league of 8 teams with 50 players each, and over 500 players are signed...

I'm not a supergenius, but that doesn't really compute.

How does this reconcile with the 3 year guaranteed deals worth $250k plus benefits?  I guess that's a guarantee once you make the team, and keep your job?  Looks like the teams are going to have the ability to cut and sign players like the NFL or CFL...  so nothing "more secure" about it.  Short season and a eyeball on them from the NFL will be attractive, but I'm starting to wonder about the promises of the contracts that were our major concerns originally.

It was announced right from the beginning that their contracts were not guaranteed. Not sure why this comes as a surprise or where you got the idea they were guaranteed. It was right in their very first presser that the contracts were not guaranteed.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue_or_die on November 28, 2018, 04:53:06 PM
It was announced right from the beginning that their contracts were not guaranteed. Not sure why this comes as a surprise or where you got the idea they were guaranteed. It was right in their very first presser that the contracts were not guaranteed.

I think there's a language technicality. I also heard they are "guaranteed", but took it to mean that if the player starts all their games, they will make no less than 80k (or whatever). I think the word "guarantee" means that the money will be good and predictable rather than the broader spectrum employed by the CFL with incentives, caveats, and the like.

If the contracts were guaranteed in the sense that if you get signed you get your payday regardless, then these guys just won the lottery and can sit back and not get injured!


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue_gold_84 on November 28, 2018, 05:20:02 PM
Some of those team names are just awful. :D


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: BBBigFan on November 28, 2018, 05:39:44 PM
San Diego going with former Bombers Alex Ross and Philip Nelson.


Wonder where Strev would have gone in that draft.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 28, 2018, 06:10:41 PM
I think there's a language technicality. I also heard they are "guaranteed", but took it to mean that if the player starts all their games, they will make no less than 80k (or whatever). I think the word "guarantee" means that the money will be good and predictable rather than the broader spectrum employed by the CFL with incentives, caveats, and the like.

If the contracts were guaranteed in the sense that if you get signed you get your payday regardless, then these guys just won the lottery and can sit back and not get injured!

The exact wording, and it is a direct quote from Bill Polian from his presser:

"Players will receive 3 year, 250k NON guaranteed contracts."

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/alliance-american-football-releases-salary-details-183954511.html


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 28, 2018, 06:17:27 PM
I think there's a language technicality. I also heard they are "guaranteed", but took it to mean that if the player starts all their games, they will make no less than 80k (or whatever). I think the word "guarantee" means that the money will be good and predictable rather than the broader spectrum employed by the CFL with incentives, caveats, and the like.

If the contracts were guaranteed in the sense that if you get signed you get your payday regardless, then these guys just won the lottery and can sit back and not get injured!

I think you are confusing base salary with guaranteed salary. Guaranteed salary means you get paid no matter what. Base salary is just the minimum amount you will be paid, and every CFLer has that as well built into their contract along with any caveats or bonuses.
Also, the CFL employs signing and roster bonuses that a player can make prior to the start of the year. Sometimes big signing bonuses. It does not sound like the AAF employs these in their salary structure. You cannot take a significant portion of your pay up front. That's a big advantage for the CFL.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on November 28, 2018, 06:25:55 PM
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24076702/alliance-american-football-players-get-3-year-250k-contracts

League co-founder Bill Polian, an ESPN NFL analyst, said the league will give players three-year, non-guaranteed contracts worth $250,000 each.



3 year deals, non guaranteed.  This is what Chapman signed up for rather than signing with the TiCats?  They must have been miles apart on salary...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 28, 2018, 06:39:50 PM
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24076702/alliance-american-football-players-get-3-year-250k-contracts

League co-founder Bill Polian, an ESPN NFL analyst, said the league will give players three-year, non-guaranteed contracts worth $250,000 each.



3 year deals, non guaranteed.  This is what Chapman signed up for rather than signing with the TiCats?  They must have been miles apart on salary...

250k US dollars is what 330k Canadian. Most first overalls get around 100k per year if they sign a 3 year deal...less if they don't. Fact of the matter is that they probably weren't all that far apart at all. Chapman has made no bones that he is not really familiar with the Canadian game and would rather play in the US. Being able to leave at any time the NFL calls was likely a big factor too.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue_or_die on November 28, 2018, 06:52:49 PM
I think you are confusing base salary with guaranteed salary. Guaranteed salary means you get paid no matter what. Base salary is just the minimum amount you will be paid, and every CFLer has that as well built into their contract along with any caveats or bonuses.
Also, the CFL employs signing and roster bonuses that a player can make prior to the start of the year. Sometimes big signing bonuses. It does not sound like the AAF employs these in their salary structure. You cannot take a significant portion of your pay up front. That's a big advantage for the CFL.

No I understand completely and am not confused, I was just saying that I can see why Aardvark may have thought that based on some of the language thrown around. I have seen in reports language to the tune of, "players will be guaranteed x dollars if signed to the AAF", which, as you say, does not mean it is guaranteed no matter what (i.e. even if you're released). All I am saying is that I get how some may have been confused with "guarantee" being thrown around in that context.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Norm W on November 28, 2018, 07:09:47 PM
When talking money and comparing leagues you also have to consider the AFF season is 10 games vs 18 CFL games, that's almost a 50% reduction in wear n' tear on your body per season or possibly a 50% career extension, depends how you look at it.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on November 28, 2018, 07:14:00 PM
When talking money and comparing leagues you also have to consider the AFF season is 10 games vs 18 CFL games, that's almost a 50% reduction in wear n' tear on your body per season or possibly a 50% career extension, depends how you look at it.

Most players will probably look at it like this, if comparing similar offers:

AAF ---- $250,000 over 3 years = $83,333 a year. $83,333 / 10 games = $8333 US per game
CFL ---- $250,000 over 3 years = $83,333 a year. $83,333 / 18 games = $4629 CDN per game



Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue_or_die on November 28, 2018, 07:28:29 PM
Most players will probably look at it like this, if comparing similar offers:

AAF ---- $250,000 over 3 years = $83,333 a year. $83,333 / 10 games = $8333 US per game
CFL ---- $250,000 over 3 years = $83,333 a year. $83,333 / 18 games = $4629 CDN per game



Which is $3487 USD. Then factor in tax differences.

If I were an American player coming out of college and wasn't getting an NFL sniff, this decision would be a no-brainer. But yeah, for the upper echelon NFL fringers who have good agents that are informed, the CFL ceiling is ultimately better. The NFL also holds the CFL is high regards compared to wannabe lower leagues. At least they respect what we have been doing for over a century.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on November 28, 2018, 07:34:52 PM
It may be a longer season, but if your goal is to make the NFL, it is also a lot more coaching by professionals... getting paid to learn and get better...

That's my sales pitch...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on November 28, 2018, 07:48:10 PM
It may be a longer season, but if your goal is to make the NFL, it is also a lot more coaching by professionals... getting paid to learn and get better...

That's my sales pitch...

Fair enough. The AAF sales pitch will be, we have Mike Singletary, Brad Childress, Steve Spurrier, Mike Martz, etc. And they'll be coaching you a four down, NFL style game.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: kkc60 on November 28, 2018, 09:08:44 PM
It may be a longer season, but if your goal is to make the NFL, it is also a lot more coaching by professionals... getting paid to learn and get better...

That's my sales pitch...
Awesome. Totally convinced everyone to take less money further from home to be coached by coaches who for the most part have never coached or played on an NFL field.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: swansong on November 29, 2018, 12:29:15 AM
Guess Chevelle will never return now.

I haven't heard from or been able to contact him since just prior to the Banjo Bowl. Actually a bit worried about him.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: kkc60 on November 29, 2018, 04:40:12 AM
I haven't heard from or been able to contact him since just prior to the Banjo Bowl. Actually a bit worried about him.
Meh. Part of me questioned how.much of him was legit


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: swansong on November 29, 2018, 05:17:52 AM
Meh. Part of me questioned how.much of him was legit

What do you mean?


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 29, 2018, 01:40:06 PM
Meh. Part of me questioned how.much of him was legit

He was legit. Several members here met him when he attended a game in 2017.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: booch on November 29, 2018, 02:34:54 PM
Awesome. Totally convinced everyone to take less money further from home to be coached by coaches who for the most part have never coached or played on an NFL field.
Pretty much a bs statement...most of the coaches in the CFL save for the few Canadian ones who never left Canada have played 4 down football...and even so it's rather irrelevant anyway

U.S born and bred players out of college have had all the 4 down training they require...so it won't effect them whatsoever...if any thing it's more the opposite as guys who have spent a few years up here become better athletes and going back to American Ball is a breeze...When I switched back from Canadian Ball to American Ball you were in way better game condition and shape...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: kkc60 on November 29, 2018, 04:52:05 PM
Pretty much a bs statement...most of the coaches in the CFL save for the few Canadian ones who never left Canada have played 4 down football...and even so it's rather irrelevant anyway

U.S born and bred players out of college have had all the 4 down training they require...so it won't effect them whatsoever...if any thing it's more the opposite as guys who have spent a few years up here become better athletes and going back to American Ball is a breeze...When I switched back from Canadian Ball to American Ball you were in way better game condition and shape...
I disagree. And really looking at the CFL coaches, very few have ever been near the NFL. That's not BS. I never said didn't play 4 down ball. I said NFL. I agree CFL ball is tougher but tell the players that.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on November 29, 2018, 05:23:42 PM
He was legit. Several members here met him when he attended a game in 2017.
He was a pretty special guy....earlier in the season after making a bold prediction that the Bombers and TiCats would meet in the Grey Cup....he sent me a personal email and offered to buy me tickets to the Grey Cup!!   He obviously was financially flush to make such an offer to someone he only knew through this forum!   I graciously declined his offer and thanked him for his kindness and generosity saying that despite being a pensioner, I was able to pay my own way and would be taking my daughter who lives in Edmonton.   I enjoyed his posts and his ability to debate various points without personal attacks.  I didn't always agree with him but mostly I did.   For him to make this offer to me touched me to the very core of my soul and I hope nothing but the best for him and hope he's OK. 

Love ya Chevy Man 💕 💕 💕


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on November 29, 2018, 05:51:45 PM
I disagree. And really looking at the CFL coaches, very few have ever been near the NFL. That's not BS. I never said didn't play 4 down ball. I said NFL. I agree CFL ball is tougher but tell the players that.

Many players, including Manzeil, have noted that both he difficulty of the game and the level of competition / play is much higher in the CFL than they expected...  there are some many parts to the 3 down game that do so much to improve a players "game"...  sure, many players need to add pounds to play the same position in the NFL, players by position are a lot heftier, but other than that, playing on a bigger field with more players and plays that challenge multiple facets of the game in one play, you'd have to think that 4 down ball becomes much simpler in comparison, not sure if that helps "slow the game down" for players that come north, but it sure can't hurt.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 29, 2018, 06:12:32 PM
I disagree. And really looking at the CFL coaches, very few have ever been near the NFL. That's not BS. I never said didn't play 4 down ball. I said NFL. I agree CFL ball is tougher but tell the players that.

The overall quality of coaching in the CFL is highly regarded by the NFL. The HCs in the AAF are great names but they are unlikely to put together a better staff than those found in the CFL.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on November 29, 2018, 06:13:42 PM
It may be a longer season, but if your goal is to make the NFL, it is also a lot more coaching by professionals... getting paid to learn and get better...

That's my sales pitch...

Less time spent with these coaches, and less opportunity to build game tape or be scouted is the ying to that yang.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: VictorRomano on November 29, 2018, 08:45:03 PM
Most players will probably look at it like this, if comparing similar offers:

AAF ---- $250,000 over 3 years = $83,333 a year. $83,333 / 10 games = $8333 US per game
CFL ---- $250,000 over 3 years = $83,333 a year. $83,333 / 18 games = $4629 CDN per game



Americans playing in the CFL also pay Canadian income tax, and then the IRS gets their cut.  Americans in the AAF will only pay the IRS.  Plus, American tax laws allow them to claim interest on mortgage payments as deductions - can't do that in Canada.



Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: booch on November 29, 2018, 09:30:08 PM
I disagree. And really looking at the CFL coaches, very few have ever been near the NFL. That's not BS. I never said didn't play 4 down ball. I said NFL. I agree CFL ball is tougher but tell the players that.
YOu said on an NFL field so I assumed you meant U.S rules football...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: BBRT on November 29, 2018, 09:55:35 PM
He was a pretty special guy....earlier in the season after making a bold prediction that the Bombers and TiCats would meet in the Grey Cup....he sent me a personal email and offered to buy me tickets to the Grey Cup!!   He obviously was financially flush to make such an offer to someone he only knew through this forum!   I graciously declined his offer and thanked him for his kindness and generosity saying that despite being a pensioner, I was able to pay my own way and would be taking my daughter who lives in Edmonton.   I enjoyed his posts and his ability to debate various points without personal attacks.  I didn't always agree with him but mostly I did.   For him to make this offer to me touched me to the very core of my soul and I hope nothing but the best for him and hope he's OK. 

Love ya Chevy Man 💕 💕 💕

I guess anyone that knows who the Lincoln Locomotive is must be as old as dirt (as I am!) Still remember seeing him on Wide World of Sports when I was a kid delivering the Des Moines Register. His Uncle ran a barber shop that I delivered to and I watched Leo Lewis play in the Grey Cup - Been a Bomber Fan ever since. Married a Winnipeg girl in 1971 and never looked back.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Tehedra on November 29, 2018, 10:13:23 PM
Americans playing in the CFL also pay Canadian income tax, and then the IRS gets their cut.  Americans in the AAF will only pay the IRS.  Plus, American tax laws allow them to claim interest on mortgage payments as deductions - can't do that in Canada.



Are you sure this is how it works; my understanding is you typically pay taxes in the country they are earned.  I would highly doubt they are being double taxed, as at that point they would be zero dollars left once the governments have finished.

Edited:: I just did some quick checking to confirm, and there is a US-Canada tax treaty which wouldn't necessarily apply to the CFL athletes because they do no work in the United States.  It appears that any money that is sourced for work completed in Canada is taxed by the Canadian government and not the American government.  However, our tax rates are sometimes higher, although not always depending on province and state, but that there are more deductibles available to an athlete in the United States.  Although United States athletes can also pay 39.7% Federal tax and up to 12% State Tax and if they are not taking advantage of the write-offs is at par or even more than the higher tax rate in Canada.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue_or_die on November 29, 2018, 11:53:51 PM
You claim income earned in the country you earn it in. You file in both countries, but won?t get ?double taxed.?

First hand experience, here.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: kkc60 on November 30, 2018, 05:37:59 AM
YOu said on an NFL field so I assumed you meant U.S rules football...
Nah I meant a literal NFL field


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 02, 2018, 11:33:13 AM
Oh, ye of little faith... I can assure you all that 1) I am not L'Damian Washington, and 2) I am quite legit... lol...  Also, I did not miss a single Bomber game this year and still consider myself a rabid and passionate Bomber fan will continue to be an active participant here, on the forum... Had a lot of 'life' get in the way of being as active of a participant here as I had in the past, and, was being to feel that my presence here at times was making the experience here for several members that I truly like and respect, less enjoyable... So, out of respect for those members, friends, I figured I would let this season play out without me here, but I assure you that while not here as often, I did drop in from time to time to see what was happening...  But I have tons of updates for you all, just not all of them now, but a couple relative to this thread...

As some here already know, I had the pleasure to meet L'Damian last year after the WSF game in Winnipeg and we have become really close friends, I see and talk to him often now a days, in fact, he actually came with me to Winnipeg for the Banjo Bowl game, lol... You ask why I bring this up now? Because it's my turn to say ' you Canadians just don't understand the NCAA college game', lol... much like I was schooled by several of you here almost 2 years ago when I was told that I didn't understand the CFL game, rightly so. I won't disrespect or talk ill of the CFL game, I love it, it's a great game, but, it's not the highest caliber of football out there. But it doesn't matter because it is still a competitive league and puts out a very entertaining product. To say that only the highest caliber of the game will have a chance to succeed would be foolish, especially by CFL fans as this league has survived 100 years with less than a stellar TV contract and a revolving door of imports, NFL rejects, has beens and never were players.  To say that the AAF or XFL will fail for no other reason than they have no stars or all others have failed in the past is a little short sighted... As well as, to say that those players that are no longer are in the CFL are not talented or were cut because they weren't good enough, well I think we all know that players are cut because of cap space, or ratio, or because players are unhappy for whatever reason as it because they aren't capable to play at a very high level...

If this were the case, the NCAA or even high school football wouldn't exist today because make no mistake, no NCAA team would beat an NFL team. Yet, the NFL would love to have the attendance numbers that the NCAA draws... Missouri had a down year this year, only because the removed the south endzone seats this year in order to have there stadium upgrade of more premium seats and locker rooms completed for the 2019 season and still had in excess of some 55,000 in attendance at their home games. Years past they have had average attendance of over 62,000 per home game. Tennessee, how were a mess this year, finished 6-6, puts over 100,000 butts in the seats at each of their home games. There are over 125 D1 schools in the NCAA FBS system, there will be plenty of players to go around and after an initial lull, the CFL won't notice the difference, honestly... Missouri's share of conference revenues last year were in excess of $42 million dollars, them alone... I tell you this because while you all might not recognize a lot of the names of the players on these teams, the NCAA fans do.

Quite honestly, for the NCAA fan, few of their favorite players never get a chance to play professional football, in the NFL or CFL... But, much like me, I'm excited to see my favorite players get the opportunity to continue to play and I'm stoked to be able to continue to follow my Tigers where ever they may land. In fact, probably much to your surprise, I am a season ticket holder for the Birmingham Iron, lol. Couple that with the fact that all of the AAF teams are in what tends to be a much warmer climate than Missouri is during Feb., March, and April, I plan on going to all of Birmingham's game, home and road games. They have a game in Orlando in April and I'm taking the daughter and granddaughter to the game with me as well as hitting Disneyland while we're there.

I won't be as bold as to say that this league is a lock to succeed, but I do believe they have a much better chance to succeed than past ventures, and for many reasons...

1) they have actually learned from past failed attempts and have approached this thing completely different that those that proceeded them in failure. One of the best concepts was, regional allocation of the talent pool. I try to watch every SEC conference game every weekend, at least part of each game and can assure you that I am more familiar with the players in this conference than I am with the majority of the NFL. One further, I don't watch a lot of the PAC 12 , Mountain West, ACC, so, by keeping these regional players in front of the same audience that are familiar with them will, if nothing else, but the league time to create a following.

2) given the the new sports betting laws that have recently been passed in several states here, Missouri included, they plan on making a lot of money via their exclusive partnership with MGM  and their commitment to the league in the building and support of an interactive, real time, in game betting platform and fan experience, gamblers will be rabid fans and part of all the money lost will find it's way in not only the leagues pocket, but also the players.

3) some say the money isn't that much different, but it is, at least for some of the better players as they too will share in those proceeds of sports betting as well as fantasy football revenue. The intent of this partnership with MGM is to create a real time betting experience, much like it's done in Europe. In Europe more money is bet on sports during the games than pre game against the betting line. Trust me when I say that their are more gamblers than there are football fans who bet and lose huge dollars on a sport they could actually care less about. So, they are breaking the mold of we have to have a gate and TV revenue to be able to operate.  In fact, while sad but true, at the end of the day if the league is profitable by whatever means possible, butts in the seat may not be their largest concern or agenda.

4) there seems to be a lot of confusion as it relates to players contracts, I'll share with you what I know, some of which is first hand. All players, at least for now, are offered the same, non- guaranteed 3 year contract, which basically means that if you make a team, continue to be able to stay with a team for the first 3 years you will be paid $70K for year 1, $80K for year 2, and $100K for year 3, at a minimum if you play all three years. Also, if the league makes it 3 years and you do as well, there will be post career health insurance benefits as well as post secondary education money based upon length of time in the league for players to go back to school in they desire.  However, what hasn't been detailed publicly, is that there are also other earning opportunities, some team based and some individual based. As I mentioned earlier, there is supposed to be an opportunity to share in the revenue generated by bets placed upon your team or you individually. Same thing goes for fantasy league revenue generated based upon individual player followings. Not to mention, there will be bonus money based upon team and individual on field performance, team success, and play off money. And lastly, there has been mention of some sort of compensation for players based upon social media interaction and followings. I'm not really sure how this will work, probably a lot like how youtube or facebook generates revenue as a free application to the end users. So, some one like LDW who will be coming into the league with over 13,000 followers on twitter alone, there is another new, and unique opportunity to be compensated individually for your draw for the league based upon your fan base.

5) all the teams are owned by one entity, whether that be one person or one group of people. So, while the intent is for all teams to generate a positive bottom line, the small market teams will be able to survive with the sharing of team cost with those teams in bigger markets or larger fan bases which in theory means, either all 8 teams will survive or fold together. Unlike the countless other pro, semi-pro, arena teams who have a revolving door of not only players, but also teams.

6) while players are in general, intended to play for their regionally designated team, if your designated team has no interest or need for you or your position, you can very well play for any team in the league if there is need for your skills and your desire to play. In fact, LDW actually could have been claimed by either Birmingham or Memphis based upon his NCAA experience, or his NFL and CFL experiences.

7) and while everyone keeps talking about and comparing entry level contract values, you all know as well as I do, few 1st year imports make even the minimum contract amount. Most 1st year imports sign the standard contract but get assigned to the PR and make a fraction of that base amount of $54K, much, much less. To my knowledge, there is not PR for AAF teams, so, if you still have your uniform and your helmet, you're going to make at least the $70K if you hold a roster slot throughout the first year.

8) much like the CFL, the AAF is banking on regional familiarity with the players and the size of the league, that it will become that same type of cozy little league, the blue collar working league, much like the CFL has, that fans become familiar with all of the players and all of the teams and create that sense of 'our' league and 'our' players.

9) and lastly, the NCAA has far and away a larger fan base than the NFL does and quite honestly, a growing number of NFL fans are tired of the prima donnas that tend to be created while playing in the NFL. The money hungry, give me mine when you are already being paid WAY to much to do nothing more than play a game, and lack of team commitment for most as it relates to being a Chief, or a Packer, etc., more and more football fans are losing interest in the NFL honestly. I know that I have watched more CFL games, even though it wasn't free or nearly as easy to do so at time, than I will NFL games this year. Which is pretty remarkable considering there are 32 NFL teams and only 8.5 CFL teams, lol, a little dig for Montreal there, but I jest, lol... But I honestly believe that success or failure of this league hinges less with on field product, as long as there is parity and a level of play at a minimum that of the NCAA, as it does has building a team and retaining players that we know and like. Over 3,000 college players enter the draft each year looking to be 1 of approximately 250 or so that get drafted each year. Of those 250 annually, few will ever actually play in a regular season game, ever. While there may be some bumps for everyone in the early going, it will once again smooth itself out. 

one of the issues that will be compounded by the addition of this league for the CFL, at least early on, will being able to secure the highest level of available player talent that will be out there. We all know that every player has their 'dream' and now they will have another option that is presenting itself as a viable opportunity to be noticed and potentially be in the NFL, so, that will be factored into there reasoning when deciding what to do. But let's face it, very few CFL players truly get a shot to play in the NFL, or if they do, it's more the exception than the rule that if they do, it probably won't be for long. That same thing will hold true for the AAF as well. While many have the dream, few ever get to see it realized for them.

But one of the unique things about this league, and given the fact that they and the NFL do not have overlapping seasons, you can, and it is allowable, to play for the AAF during it's season and during the NFL season an opportunity allows you to go their, even if still under contract to the AAF, you can, and then come back and play for your AAF team the next season. I can see where these players may, and it's still probably very slight, that you will see some players get an opportunity due to injuries of NFL players

What I do hope for, and I believe the league will have to have it to survive, is team continuity and establishes a team identity as it relates to it team and players. If there is say 50%, or so, turn in players year to year, nobody will care about the league. As NCAA fans we are accustomed to 4 or 5 years max of playing time for any one player for our teams. If teams can do a good job in evaluating player talent, and with having set contractual compensation for all players, hopefully there will be little player turnover and we die hard's can go back to loving a team based upon the players it consist of and not the logo on the helmet. Eliminating free agency for all intents and purposes should help. But it also helps maintain the level of talent available for all leagues as creating team stability will reduce the need for players year after year, hopefully.

the best thing about it all is that I will only have a 30 day window or so of meaningful football each year, I'm excited...

I figured you all were probably missing my 'novels' so I felt it was only appropriate to make my first post back straight from the soapbox...  ;D


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 02, 2018, 11:45:56 AM
Are you sure this is how it works; my understanding is you typically pay taxes in the country they are earned.  I would highly doubt they are being double taxed, as at that point they would be zero dollars left once the governments have finished.

Edited:: I just did some quick checking to confirm, and there is a US-Canada tax treaty which wouldn't necessarily apply to the CFL athletes because they do no work in the United States.  It appears that any money that is sourced for work completed in Canada is taxed by the Canadian government and not the American government.  However, our tax rates are sometimes higher, although not always depending on province and state, but that there are more deductibles available to an athlete in the United States.  Although United States athletes can also pay 39.7% Federal tax and up to 12% State Tax and if they are not taking advantage of the write-offs is at par or even more than the higher tax rate in Canada.

not entirely correct as it can also depends on how long you were in either country, declared domicile, and or amount earned during the tax year. plus, while you won't be taxed on the entire amount earned out of country, because of the treaty, you may indeed have to pay additional tax to your home country on a portion of that income but not the entire amount. But it is true that you are given tax credit on all or part of that income based upon specific life events, total earned, and declared residence, etc, and the mutually agreed upon terms of the treaty. While this may help with your federal tax return, the treaty may, or may not, provide tax relief on state income taxation...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue girl on December 02, 2018, 07:42:59 PM
Glad to have you back Chevelle. We don't always agree but I do believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just one thing. If you decide to take a break again please let us know. Some of us were worried that something had happened to you.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue newt on December 02, 2018, 07:58:14 PM
Thanks for that assessment, Chevelle.  Seems really thought out and a great perspective to the new league.  You're right in that a lot of players end up missing out on the NFL and the CFL due to multiple reasons, and this gives them a chance to continue to pursue the dream of playing football.  And I like the health insurance and education approach they are taking. 

I think best case scenario is that the league works in tandem with the football leagues already in place and that there are enough quality players to go around.  It does place a greater emphasis on scouting for CFL teams than before, as there will be more demand for the top tier players, so some "diamond in the rough" type digging may need to occur. 

As a side note, it's interesting to see how more pro football is being developed, when just yesterday I read an article about how fewer kids are getting involved in football due to cost and injury concerns (especially with greater concussion awareness).  Granted, the article was talking about Canada (which made me a touch nervous for our national scouting capabilities 5-8 years from now when these high school kids become eligible for pros and there just aren't the numbers there used to be).  It's an interesting contemplation, that there is growing demand for watching football and increasing numbers of pro leagues, but when it comes to actually putting our kids in football, it seems that demand is shrinking.  Is it the same case where you are?

Curious to see how things all pan out in the end...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on December 02, 2018, 09:48:24 PM
Brett Boyko (14th overall in 2015 to BC) signs with the AAF


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Knocker42 on December 02, 2018, 11:17:24 PM
Thank you Chevelle, for your detailed and clearly stated run down on the new league.  I hope it succeeds and, unlike some, do not see it as a threat to the CFL.  Sure, some players will choose to go there but there is no shortage.
Blue Newt has hit on a far bigger threat which will, I believe, change all football in time.  I refer to head injuries and insurance related difficulties.  My background is in Rugby Union and already, in that sport,  there have been rule changes related to the tackle etc that are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.  I feel it is inevitable that similar changes will have to be made in football, beyond what we have already seen in more stringent application of dangerous play situation.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 03, 2018, 08:57:16 AM
Welcome back Chevelle...I do agree with most of your post but still think the AAF, although having some good ideas, will fail. Just too much competition for the dollar in the US imo.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 03, 2018, 09:02:18 AM
BTW Chevelle, you weten't ruining anyone's enjoyment of this forum at all. I can only think of one forum member who you clashed with and he left while setting bridges on fire behind him.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: bigbuff33 on December 03, 2018, 11:45:17 AM
As Aards stated earlier:    Brett Boyko (14th overall in 2015 to BC) signs with the AAF

You can hide your head in the sand and pretend this league isn't going to hurt the CFL...
But if we continue to lose high calibre Canadian talent...the quality of play is really going to suffer


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 03, 2018, 12:24:50 PM
As Aards stated earlier:    Brett Boyko (14th overall in 2015 to BC) signs with the AAF

You can hide your head in the sand and pretend this league isn't going to hurt the CFL...
But if we continue to lose high calibre Canadian talent...the quality of play is really going to suffer

How about you look at individual circumstance before declaring that. Boyko received an injury pay out because he had a potential career ending injury. He has NFL talent. The very best move for Boyko was getting on the field ASAP where he can demonstrate he has recovered and get back to the show ASAP. If the CFL was the one starting in February and ending in April that is where Boyko would have signed because he still has a high probability of being back in the show as soon as he demonstrates his health. The AAF simply allows him to go back to the NFL for TC instead of having to wait until his CFL option window in December. That makes it a no brainer for guys in his circumstance. Many of those type of players would not sign in the CFL anyway.

If Boyko is passed over by the NFL, I can easily see him turning his attention to the CFL.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Jesse on December 03, 2018, 12:44:00 PM
As Aards stated earlier:    Brett Boyko (14th overall in 2015 to BC) signs with the AAF

You can hide your head in the sand and pretend this league isn't going to hurt the CFL...
But if we continue to lose high calibre Canadian talent...the quality of play is really going to suffer

In addition to GCn18's point, I'd like to add that no one is saying they won't sign away some players (they already have, after all), were simply saying that the league won't be around long enough for it to matter.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 03, 2018, 01:06:49 PM
In addition to GCn18's point, I'd like to add that no one is saying they won't sign away some players (they already have, after all), were simply saying that the league won't be around long enough for it to matter.

On a further note let's dig into the numbers needed for financial success for this league.

Each team has 5 home games. If they were to triple attendance figures of the last two start up leagues they would be drawing roughly 25k a game. Polian has announced that he intends to have around a $30 average ticket price. That would give a gate revenue of 3.75 million and that would be highly optimistic attendance...probably unattainable really. Each team will roster 60 players making 70k + bonuses. That's 4.2 million. That's half a million in the hole before coaches are paid, stadiums are rented, football ops are paid etc. To put it into perspective, that's around another 10-12 million per team.

The AAF TV contract with Ebersol does not pay the AAF one cent over the first 5 years, and teams are actually responsible for paying for the production of the broadcast. That means no TV revenue. That means that each team, even with great attendance can figure on having to get around 10-15 million in sponsorship, side deals, merch sales, etc, in order to break even and that's if attendance is sterling. Does anyone really think that this is a remote possibility? I don't. With the league being a single entity, even if 3 or 4 franchises falter this league becomes a dead duck. Can Polian's group sustain losses potentially into the 50-60 million dollar range per season? I KNOW they can't. Their investment backing is from investment groups looking for returns on the money. This is a high risk venture for them and their investors and they will think nothing of pulling the pin to minimize losses for their customers. It's a house of cards that either has to hit a home run right off the bat or it will be bouncing checks before St. Patrick's day.

I like Polian's ideas, I wish the CFL would adopt some of them. However, economics often kill great ideas before they get a chance. I know Polian has attempted to clean up a lot of where other league's have failed, but at the heart of all these failures was simple economics and nothing Polian can do can/will change that fact. Bottom line is there has to be paying customers, community interest, heavy merchandising, sweetheart stadium deals, TV deals, concession revenues, parking revenues, and most importantly owners willing to take heavy losses for a few years. The AAF has only a couple of these things in place and unless speculative investment has changed, they most certainly do not have the ownership.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 03, 2018, 01:23:15 PM
As Aards stated earlier:    Brett Boyko (14th overall in 2015 to BC) signs with the AAF

You can hide your head in the sand and pretend this league isn't going to hurt the CFL...
But if we continue to lose high calibre Canadian talent...the quality of play is really going to suffer

Sure maybe.....but who cares?  Focusing on players that don't come to the league and fretting about it is the wrong approach, there will be plenty of high quality players to to take their place and as for Boyko "you can't miss what you never had".


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Waffler on December 03, 2018, 01:40:46 PM
In addition I would add that is very hard to make an informed bet (gambling revenue) on unknown entities which the league will be especially at first. So what they will get from that is real wild card. Only time will tell.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: kkc60 on December 03, 2018, 02:25:31 PM
Sure maybe.....but who cares?  Focusing on players that don't come to the league and fretting about it is the wrong approach, there will be plenty of high quality players to to take their place and as for Boyko "you can't miss what you never had".
Makes the draft tougher tho. Already a few high quality prospects go to the NFL. Now they could also start going to the AAFL


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on December 03, 2018, 02:34:15 PM
AAF gets no broadcast money?

You set up a league to sit in the dead zone for football broadcast coverage, and negotiate a deal for zero revenue for content?  THAT is seriously weird / bad.  Even the CFL has broadcast rights that basically cover the SMS...  I'm guessing there is no SMS for AAF, 50 players at $70k for year one, #3,4mil.  Wonder if they are going to have an IR, and how that will work...

So, AAF is a totally gate driven league, playing in large stadiums that are going to look awful empty.

Truly a recipe for success.  Will be interesting to see if they have payroll issues before the end of season one, and good luck to players looking to collect on pensions, education funding and health care that will only happen if the league succeeds...   get you money up front, boys.




Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 03, 2018, 03:05:47 PM
AAF gets no broadcast money?

You set up a league to sit in the dead zone for football broadcast coverage, and negotiate a deal for zero revenue for content?  THAT is seriously weird / bad.  Even the CFL has broadcast rights that basically cover the SMS...  I'm guessing there is no SMS for AAF, 50 players at $70k for year one, #3,4mil.  Wonder if they are going to have an IR, and how that will work...

So, AAF is a totally gate driven league, playing in large stadiums that are going to look awful empty.

Truly a recipe for success.  Will be interesting to see if they have payroll issues before the end of season one, and good luck to players looking to collect on pensions, education funding and health care that will only happen if the league succeeds...   get you money up front, boys.




Not just gate driven, they will make revenue from sports betting...lol. People will have to lay out billions in sports betting on this league before the cut they get from MGM starts generating enough to keep this league afloat.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 03, 2018, 03:08:56 PM
In addition I would add that is very hard to make an informed bet (gambling revenue) on unknown entities which the league will be especially at first. So what they will get from that is real wild card. Only time will tell.

Exactly. People who bet on sports do so because their is some reliable data to look at in order to hedge their bets. In a start up league no serious sports gambler is going to wager without a season's worth of data, and really this league will not get the passive gamblers. They will be betting on hockey, and the NBA at this time.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 03, 2018, 03:12:46 PM
Makes the draft tougher tho. Already a few high quality prospects go to the NFL. Now they could also start going to the AAFL

All this does is change the way the top picks are paid in our league. That's all. A little more money in their first contract and they will come here where they have a decided advantage on being rostered and playing. Lot's of people grinding gears and pushing panic buttons because Boyko didn't come North after the NFL Neither did Bilikudi and Mulumba, and it wasn't because of another league. Truth is that Boyko was always a long shot to come play and that's why he dropped into the 3rd round, and that is why he will likely only have a cup of coffee with the AAF before he is back in the NFL.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: the paw on December 03, 2018, 03:18:11 PM
AAF gets no broadcast money?

You set up a league to sit in the dead zone for football broadcast coverage, and negotiate a deal for zero revenue for content?  THAT is seriously weird / bad.  Even the CFL has broadcast rights that basically cover the SMS...  I'm guessing there is no SMS for AAF, 50 players at $70k for year one, #3,4mil.  Wonder if they are going to have an IR, and how that will work...

So, AAF is a totally gate driven league, playing in large stadiums that are going to look awful empty.

Truly a recipe for success.  Will be interesting to see if they have payroll issues before the end of season one, and good luck to players looking to collect on pensions, education funding and health care that will only happen if the league succeeds...   get you money up front, boys.


Wrong.  It doesn't say anywhere I can see that they get zero revenue from this deal.  But even if they do, that would be the first loss leader, and they could expect to see TV revenues down the road.  Live streaming their games is also really smart.  Put aside the notion that players get paid by gambling revenues, the fact that they are targeting regional football fans who love to gamble is a good strategic choice.  Bets will drive viewership as much as anything.  

Quote
CBS will air two primetime AAF games on its broadcast network next year, plus the full slate of regular-season games on CBS Sports Network. ?As the Alliance of American Football launches next February we are excited to become the official television partner, adding more football to our robust programming lineup,? CBS Sports chairman Sean McManus commented. ?With Charlie Ebersol and Bill Polian at the helm we are confident that the product they will deliver will be entertaining, exciting, engaging and something that fans will really enjoy.?

https://variety.com/2018/digital/news/alliance-american-football-league-cbs-2019-charlie-ebersol-1202731190/

I don't  know if this league will have the staying power to succeed, but there are a lot of things about their business model that make a lot of sense.  Firm cost control, open gateway to the NFL, no season overlap, and regional NCAA appeal.   If these guys can't do it, then it probably can't be done.  But even if they do pull it off, I think the impact on the CFL is manageable.  



Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 03, 2018, 04:57:53 PM
Wrong.  It doesn't say anywhere I can see that they get zero revenue from this deal.  But even if they do, that would be the first loss leader, and they could expect to see TV revenues down the road.  Live streaming their games is also really smart.  Put aside the notion that players get paid by gambling revenues, the fact that they are targeting regional football fans who love to gamble is a good strategic choice.  Bets will drive viewership as much as anything.  

https://variety.com/2018/digital/news/alliance-american-football-league-cbs-2019-charlie-ebersol-1202731190/

I don't  know if this league will have the staying power to succeed, but there are a lot of things about their business model that make a lot of sense.  Firm cost control, open gateway to the NFL, no season overlap, and regional NCAA appeal.   If these guys can't do it, then it probably can't be done.  But even if they do pull it off, I think the impact on the CFL is manageable.  



Ebersol spoke at great length about the AAF, and the TV deal on an interview a couple months ago. It is a no money deal in exchange for CBS help in promoting the league.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: the paw on December 03, 2018, 05:43:26 PM
Ebersol spoke at great length about the AAF, and the TV deal on an interview a couple months ago. It is a no money deal in exchange for CBS help in promoting the league.

Fair enough, but like i said, that's a loss leader.  If they get any kind of traction, that will turn into money down the road.  I think they (correctly) feel that getting the exposure is more important than the revenue at this juncture. 


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 03, 2018, 05:48:44 PM
Fair enough, but like i said, that's a loss leader.  If they get any kind of traction, that will turn into money down the road.  I think they (correctly) feel that getting the exposure is more important than the revenue at this juncture. 

You have to be able to survive though. Venture capitalists are not very patient by nature. They want return because that is what they are selling to their clients.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on December 03, 2018, 07:10:14 PM
How can you make money betting on a league with no history, and no where near the depth of stats available even on the players, never mind matchups, never mind intangibles like stadium, etc. 

Probably better to buy lottery tickets than bet on AAF, but then again, I guess you could use that as a slogan...

"Tired of buying lottery tickets?  Here, the next best thing... AAF betting..."


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on December 03, 2018, 07:21:55 PM
How can you make money betting on a league with no history, and no where near the depth of stats available even on the players, never mind matchups, never mind intangibles like stadium, etc. 

Probably better to buy lottery tickets than bet on AAF, but then again, I guess you could use that as a slogan...

"Tired of buying lottery tickets?  Here, the next best thing... AAF betting..."

People bet on everything.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 03, 2018, 07:38:38 PM
People bet on everything.

Sports gamblers are a different breed. The casual sports gambler bets on whatever major league is playing. The type of gambler that they need will be the professional and chronic gamblers that will look to secondary leagues to place their bets on. In order to hook this type of gambler they need information in order to back up their hunches. They won't have any and won't place big wagers. This league will need a whole lot of people placing big wagers as they are relying on a cut of the action from MGM to pay their bills.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: the paw on December 03, 2018, 07:55:16 PM
Sports gamblers are a different breed. The casual sports gambler bets on whatever major league is playing. The type of gambler that they need will be the professional and chronic gamblers that will look to secondary leagues to place their bets on. In order to hook this type of gambler they need information in order to back up their hunches. They won't have any and won't place big wagers. This league will need a whole lot of people placing big wagers as they are relying on a cut of the action from MGM to pay their bills.

I don't think the business plan is necessarily to make oodles of cash through a cut of betting receipts.  I think the play is that if you combine the NCAA regional interest with the general interest in betting action, that casual fan/casual gambler is more likely to tune in, stream, and/or place a bet.  They may want the cut of the gambling action as an additional stream in a diversified revenues plan, but customer acquisition is probably the main thrust.

They won't get a ton of action initially, from either chronic or casual gamblers, but if they make it easy enough to bet and track they will get some and it will grow. 

Again, I don't know how deep their pockets are, and if they have the patience to wait for this strategy to pay off, but I have to say their overall strategic approach is impressive.  There has been an obvious attempt to address the shortcomings of prior spring leagues.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue girl on December 03, 2018, 08:35:23 PM
IMO the AAF is going to make our scouts work harder to find players that fit our league. Whether it succeeds or not I guess we'll find out. I know that I would watch it if I could but then I'll watch any kind of football.  :D


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 03, 2018, 09:41:32 PM
First, thanks to all of you that have extended kind words related to my return, much appreciated! I'll go back and hit your comments again but there was some good stuff in there that I would like to respond to, but, relative to the current conversation, here are a couple of pieces I picked up on line...

Ebersol said the AAF had the financial backing to sustain itself through any early growing pains.

"I think where businesses like this fail is that they expect to have ludicrous and unrealistic ticket and media-deal projections in Year 1," Ebersol said. "Our investors here understand that it's a seven-to-10-year plan."


and this I found on a message board...

"AAF is backed by venture capital(much like a Tech start-up).Some of the investors include
Peter Thiel, Peter Chernin, and Colony Capital.The objective is to eventually have the NFL
buy an equity stake that eventually leads to a complete buyout and thus become the true
official minor league of the NFL.The NFL has historically avoided the initial costs that would
be associated with such a project and this is an attempt to have someone else do the heavy
lifting.The NFL old guard(Jerry Jones,Bob Kraft) are going to be replaced by their children soon,
who are business school/beancounter types.They will see the value in buying it. 

Can it survive it's initial season?
I would count on it(Peter Thiel does not spend his money foolishly). 2020 could be a different
story with The XFL coming into the picture.This is why you see them being very public with
their salary offers.They want to lock up as many of the street free agents that are currently
available. (this is before the next wave of NFL cuts arrive after Labor Day).

Is this going to have an effect on player recruitment?
Considering the fact that the current crop of CFL personnel people don't scout FCS/D2/D3 players
for philosophical reasons(Dave Ritchie mentality).The NFLPA is going to be very interested in
trying to use The XFL/AAF player membership as a bargaining chip in labor negotiations in 2021.
(games played = Pension points).That will be very enticing to potential players/agents.
The CFL's cost cutting measures on the personnel side are not doing themselves any favors.
The next two off-season recruitment cycles are going to be very interesting. "



found both to be interesting...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on December 03, 2018, 11:25:43 PM
I guess if the investors realize the potential that it will not make it to black ink, nevermind being bought out by the NFL (who could easily start thier own again if AAF proves successful and they price themselves out of the market).  I guess selling them on selling to the NFL at a huge profit is enough of a carrot to dangle for them to speculate. 

As an investor, though, I'd look at this as waaaay too risky.  Too much downside...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue girl on December 03, 2018, 11:38:33 PM
I'm pretty sure that these people have done their research and wouldn't make a bad investment. Perhaps they're willing to take a loss now because they fell that there will be a big payoff in the end. I do agree with Chevelle that people are being turned off by the NFL. This may be the perfect time to start a new league.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 03, 2018, 11:51:23 PM
Thanks for that assessment, Chevelle.  Seems really thought out and a great perspective to the new league.  You're right in that a lot of players end up missing out on the NFL and the CFL due to multiple reasons, and this gives them a chance to continue to pursue the dream of playing football.  And I like the health insurance and education approach they are taking. 

I think best case scenario is that the league works in tandem with the football leagues already in place and that there are enough quality players to go around.  It does place a greater emphasis on scouting for CFL teams than before, as there will be more demand for the top tier players, so some "diamond in the rough" type digging may need to occur. 

As a side note, it's interesting to see how more pro football is being developed, when just yesterday I read an article about how fewer kids are getting involved in football due to cost and injury concerns (especially with greater concussion awareness).  Granted, the article was talking about Canada (which made me a touch nervous for our national scouting capabilities 5-8 years from now when these high school kids become eligible for pros and there just aren't the numbers there used to be).  It's an interesting contemplation, that there is growing demand for watching football and increasing numbers of pro leagues, but when it comes to actually putting our kids in football, it seems that demand is shrinking.  Is it the same case where you are?

Curious to see how things all pan out in the end...

I would say that football here is akin to what hockey is for the Canadian youth. While soccer is played almost everywhere here in the states it doesn't have the appeal or a fan base outside of the parents and relatives of those that are participating. Not to say that in another 20 the situation may change, but I doubt it. I live right smack dab in the middle of Missouri, a small rural community of around 4,100 people, and have all my life, but football is king here. In fact the majority of the area here is similar, kids start playing organized flag football in elementary school and when in either the 5th or 6th grade start tackle football. Once they get to the 7th grade they play 'real' football in the school's conference made up of other area school and the balance of their schedule with any other school they can schedule.

The town that I live in was considered a powerhouse in Class 2 and at times Class 3 until 3 years ago when we lost our coach.  There are 6 classes of size based upon school enrollment which is reviewed and assignment to your proper class every 2 years in order to allow schools to compete against other schools of similar size. Before we lost our coach we had a very good 20 year run where we won 1 Class 3 State Championship, runner up twice, and the quarter finals multiple times, usually getting beat by the eventual state champion. We won 17 conference titles as well plus, their was a 5+ year run where we didn't lose a single regular season game.  In fact, since 1968 there have been 32 state championships and 19 championship game appearance by area schools with 40 or miles of here.  About 6 years ago we finally abandoned our old grass field and build a million dollar plus turf stadium complete with video board. It's the place to be on Friday nights in the fall, place is packed.

So, you may think that our situation is more the exception than the rule, but it's not. It's similar through out Missouri. Growing up in a small school we were only offered 3 sports; football, basketball, and track. We've since added a few more but small schools, small budgets. Plus, without having a booming metropolis with 100's of distractions, high school sports are where kids gravitate to. I've been going to Friday night games since I graduated high school, like I said place is packed. In fact, you can watch most games online and all state championship games are actually televised on Fox Midwest Sports channel during the thanksgiving weekend. I follow all classes of Missouri high school football as I do NCAA, NFL, and now CFL football.

Having a storied or winning program always helps, but, in the last 3 years combined we've only won 3 games, lol. Yet attendance is amazing, full house every week. Kids start young and play through out their high school career where for most that is where it ends. Being a small school we don't get a lot of big college here to recruit our kids. 


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 03, 2018, 11:57:02 PM
I guess if the investors realize the potential that it will not make it to black ink, nevermind being bought out by the NFL (who could easily start thier own again if AAF proves successful and they price themselves out of the market).  I guess selling them on selling to the NFL at a huge profit is enough of a carrot to dangle for them to speculate. 

As an investor, though, I'd look at this as waaaay too risky.  Too much downside...


Considering the entry cost of an NFL team is a billion dollars... hard to get into the club these days...

In all honesty, I can see NFL teams paying the AAF to take their fringe players to develop for them. There is only so much you can progress running on the scout team or holding a clip board. Plus, there is a reason that the AAF only has 1 entity that owns the entire operation, otherwise Ebersol would have reduced his risk by selling franchises, but that's just my opinion... If nothing else, I see the AAF and the XFL consolidating into one leauge if nothing else.  To many close ties between the 2 owners to just have been a coincident...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: lenny on December 03, 2018, 11:57:42 PM
Never knew their long term plan was a buyout to function as a minor league feeder and development league like the AHL--->NHL. This is workable in the NHL because attendance averages around 5000-6000 and the salaries are related to around 23 players. Double that for football and I would seriously think their attendance figures would cripple such a league. Given this long-term plan I think many players thinking about this have to reconsider its viability or lack of same. They might wait until this long-term plan can actually come to fruition if it has any hope of viability.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 04, 2018, 12:05:27 AM
Thank you Chevelle, for your detailed and clearly stated run down on the new league.  I hope it succeeds and, unlike some, do not see it as a threat to the CFL.  Sure, some players will choose to go there but there is no shortage.
Blue Newt has hit on a far bigger threat which will, I believe, change all football in time.  I refer to head injuries and insurance related difficulties.  My background is in Rugby Union and already, in that sport,  there have been rule changes related to the tackle etc that are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.  I feel it is inevitable that similar changes will have to be made in football, beyond what we have already seen in more stringent application of dangerous play situation.

your right in regards to the inevitable risk of injury in a contact sport, but honestly, we don't really hear much about significant injuries at the junior high and high school level. I think these thinks really come into play once these kids get to college because by then they've grown into men. They are bigger, stronger, and faster that we were 'back in the day'. Weight and strength training is a required course for athletes these days at the high school level, but you really see the transformation of these kids once they get to college. But as you know, all it takes is one injury and the landscape of sports at all levels could change in a heartbeat.

As kids we played organized sports with equipment that you wouldn't be allowed to step onto a field with now a days. During summer, or after school there were always pick up games with kids playing with no equipment and we all lived. That why I say that the real serious, life changing risk is once the kids turn into men or woman at the college level.

I've also seen reports on tv that claim there are as many injuries, or more, in soccer as there are in football as well. Most centered around 'heading' the ball...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 04, 2018, 12:15:27 AM
Never knew their long term plan was a buyout to function as a minor league feeder and development league like the AHL--->NHL. This is workable in the NHL because attendance averages around 5000-6000 and the salaries are related to around 23 players. Double that for football and I would seriously think their attendance figures would cripple such a league. Given this long-term plan I think many players thinking about this have to reconsider its viability or lack of same. They might wait until this long-term plan can actually come to fruition if it has any hope of viability.

this is where the regional assignment of players come into play.  If they can get the NCAA fans to buy into the league and get their butts into the  seats it shouldn't be a problem, but that is yet to be seen. Birmingham has already started the construction of a new 45,000 seat (I believe that number is right) for the Iron and they haven't played a down yet! Supposed to be down by the 2020 season.

Football is big business here, as I've said before, our Tigers put 60,000 in the seats at every home game and we have one of the smaller stadiums in the SEC. And these seats aren't cheap, the tickets are. I believe you can buy a season ticket for something like $400 per seat, but, you also have to make a contribution of at least $1,500 and up to $10,000 per seat to the Tigers Scholarship fund, plus, buy a parking pass. In order to upgrade your seats, you earn points for consecutive years of being a STH and the amount of money you have contributed. Needless to say, the wait list for seats is very long, upgrading your seat, even longer...l


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on December 04, 2018, 11:40:04 AM
Very interesting perspective Chevy. Great to have you back posting. I am not sure if the league will last or ever be a true a NFL "farm league" but I am interested to watch it. I am sure it will have some impact on the CFL, but that's ok, perhaps it will help bring parity to our league. I believe that US college puts out enough players for both the new leagues and the NFL/CFL. It may have a ripple effect and get even more kids playing. It will be up to the CFL to educate "mericans' more on our game.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 04, 2018, 02:14:46 PM
Very interesting perspective Chevy. Great to have you back posting. I am not sure if the league will last or ever be a true a NFL "farm league" but I am interested to watch it. I am sure it will have some impact on the CFL, but that's ok, perhaps it will help bring parity to our league. I believe that US college puts out enough players for both the new leagues and the NFL/CFL. It may have a ripple effect and get even more kids playing. It will be up to the CFL to educate "mericans' more on our game.

Thanks! it's great to be back, missed this place... 

while I was sitting here eating breakfast and reading threads, a realization came to me that I found... interesting and a bit telling... I think it had to do with your statement relative to league parity...

I've been to Canada and watched more Bomber games in person at IFG than I have been to any NFL games, even though I've had as many as 2 professional NFL teams within 120 miles of my home for years... but, I've been to countless Tigers game where I didn't even have tickets (sold out games) where me and my friends tailgated and watched the game on a big screen in the parking lot...  but I couldn't tell or begin to count how many high school football games I go to, or have been to over the years...

I had to ask myself why is that? the answer was simple, and took about a second to come up with...  even though it is an undisputed mindset that the NFL is the 'best' league when it comes to the talent put on the field, which most believe is the measuring stick for league success, it's just too **** expensive in my opinion. This coming from a man that could actually afford to do so it I wanted, I just don't find the value in it. Preseaon game tickets start at about $250 per seat and go up from there for the NFL, forget about regular season and playoff tickets for an NFL game, not to mention $8 bottles of water, $9 hot dogs... I've got better ways to spend my money... It cost me over $1,200 to go to the Banjo Bowl, didn't bat an eye at doing so, I'll be back next year as well... but, I found value in doing so, I got to go to Canada for starters, bonus... I had field side seats, and never left them once I got there and even though we lost, had the time of my life and enjoyed the game so much...

So why is that? For me it is how I feel I identify with those on the field and my interest in supporting their endeavors...  as you go backwards in perceived 'best product put on the field'  in regards to talent, my interest actually goes up. I thought to myself, well it's probably just me, but I don't think so. Unlike the NFL, I find my self as interested in what pieces or players we as a team are going to go after each year to make our club better, whether it's the CFL or the NCAA. Then you follow these undertakings as intently as you do the actual games, whether it's off season pursuit of free agents in the CFL, or the recruits from the 10's of thousands of high school kids in the USA. Then, you get to make your judgement and actually see it through whether you're right or wrong... with college ball you become the fan of the underdog... so few actually make the NFL, you know that going in, but you have most kids for 4 years... then you always feel that your underdogs are better than everyone else's , if only they were to get that chance ... you all should be thinking LDW right now for me... so you support them and hope that they get that chance... the 'life' around the game, for me, becomes bigger than the game itself in most cases...

many of you here would have sworn that I was related to LDW, or had a personal relationship with him when I showed up here at the beginning of the 2017 season. It wasn't the case but I think it showed my passion and excitement that my 'underdog' may have just got that chance and he was going to prove to the world he was worthy.  it sounds silly when you say it out loud, but, for these 'working man leagues' the game actually pulls at your heart and you develop feeling for those that are breaking their back just trying to earn a chance...

I think deep down I have my reservations about whether these additional league will be successful or not, but I'll continue to support them because it gives my underdogs a place to play... the juice is worth the squeeze... 


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 04, 2018, 02:43:59 PM
Thanks! it's great to be back, missed this place... 

while I was sitting here eating breakfast and reading threads, a realization came to me that I found... interesting and a bit telling... I think it had to do with your statement relative to league parity...

I've been to Canada and watched more Bomber games in person at IFG than I have been to any NFL games, even though I've had as many as 2 professional NFL teams within 120 miles of my home for years... but, I've been to countless Tigers game where I didn't even have tickets (sold out games) where me and my friends tailgated and watched the game on a big screen in the parking lot...  but I couldn't tell or begin to count how many high school football games I go to, or have been to over the years...

I had to ask myself why is that? the answer was simple, and took about a second to come up with...  even though it is an undisputed mindset that the NFL is the 'best' league when it comes to the talent put on the field, which most believe is the measuring stick for league success, it's just too **** expensive in my opinion. This coming from a man that could actually afford to do so it I wanted, I just don't find the value in it. Preseaon game tickets start at about $250 per seat and go up from there for the NFL, forget about regular season and playoff tickets for an NFL game, not to mention $8 bottles of water, $9 hot dogs... I've got better ways to spend my money... It cost me over $1,200 to go to the Banjo Bowl, didn't bat an eye at doing so, I'll be back next year as well... but, I found value in doing so, I got to go to Canada for starters, bonus... I had field side seats, and never left them once I got there and even though we lost, had the time of my life and enjoyed the game so much...

So why is that? For me it is how I feel I identify with those on the field and my interest in supporting their endeavors...  as you go backwards in perceived 'best product put on the field'  in regards to talent, my interest actually goes up. I thought to myself, well it's probably just me, but I don't think so. Unlike the NFL, I find my self as interested in what pieces or players we as a team are going to go after each year to make our club better, whether it's the CFL or the NCAA. Then you follow these undertakings as intently as you do the actual games, whether it's off season pursuit of free agents in the CFL, or the recruits from the 10's of thousands of high school kids in the USA. Then, you get to make your judgement and actually see it through whether you're right or wrong... with college ball you become the fan of the underdog... so few actually make the NFL, you know that going in, but you have most kids for 4 years... then you always feel that your underdogs are better than everyone else's , if only they were to get that chance ... you all should be thinking LDW right now for me... so you support them and hope that they get that chance... the 'life' around the game, for me, becomes bigger than the game itself in most cases...

many of you here would have sworn that I was related to LDW, or had a personal relationship with him when I showed up here at the beginning of the 2017 season. It wasn't the case but I think it showed my passion and excitement that my 'underdog' may have just got that chance and he was going to prove to the world he was worthy.  it sounds silly when you say it out loud, but, for these 'working man leagues' the game actually pulls at your heart and you develop feeling for those that are breaking their back just trying to earn a chance...

I think deep down I have my reservations about whether these additional league will be successful or not, but I'll continue to support them because it gives my underdogs a place to play... the juice is worth the squeeze... 

The underdog league's are certainly worthy of the respect that some give them.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 04, 2018, 02:46:49 PM
Never knew their long term plan was a buyout to function as a minor league feeder and development league like the AHL--->NHL. This is workable in the NHL because attendance averages around 5000-6000 and the salaries are related to around 23 players. Double that for football and I would seriously think their attendance figures would cripple such a league. Given this long-term plan I think many players thinking about this have to reconsider its viability or lack of same. They might wait until this long-term plan can actually come to fruition if it has any hope of viability.

If their goal is to get the NFL to buy them out they are risking quite a bit. The majority of NFL owners decided to fold NFL Europe because they felt it was a huge waste of money. If the AAF can't clearly demonstrate they are not a money pit the NFL will let them go the way of every other secondary football league before them....off to twist in the breeze and die.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Norm W on December 04, 2018, 04:32:45 PM
Football is big business here, as I've said before, our Tigers put 60,000 in the seats at every home game and we have one of the smaller stadiums in the SEC. And these seats aren't cheap, the tickets are. I believe you can buy a season ticket for something like $400 per seat, but, you also have to make a contribution of at least $1,500 and up to $10,000 per seat to the Tigers Scholarship fund, plus, buy a parking pass. In order to upgrade your seats, you earn points for consecutive years of being a STH and the amount of money you have contributed. Needless to say, the wait list for seats is very long, upgrading your seat, even longer...l

College ball big business? That's an understatement, it's a licence to print money... For the most part it has all the revenue streams that the NFL has and one expense that all other Pro leagues have that they don't.... Player salaries.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 04, 2018, 05:51:59 PM
College ball big business? That's an understatement, it's a licence to print money... For the most part it has all the revenue streams that the NFL has and one expense that all other Pro leagues have that they don't.... Player salaries.

A solid case could be made against the NCAA for exploiting student athletes to fill their coffers and subsidize the education of the rest of the student body.  Spenser Strasmore will be pushing this argument hard in the next season of Ballers, he may yet change the world!


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 04, 2018, 08:28:09 PM
If their goal is to get the NFL to buy them out they are risking quite a bit. The majority of NFL owners decided to fold NFL Europe because they felt it was a huge waste of money. If the AAF can't clearly demonstrate they are not a money pit the NFL will let them go the way of every other secondary football league before them....off to twist in the breeze and die.

you know, I had been looking for the terms of the TV deal online probably since July and was never able to find anything. You shedding the light on the fact there is no pay out to the league makes it all a lot clearer for me, lol. It also makes me think that these guys are pretty smart and have a pretty thought out long term plan, and it just might work...

I do recall a statement made by the fine folks at CBS as to why they were on board, and it goes something like this... They said they were really impressed with Ebersol and his group as they came to them with not a 1, 2, or 3 year detailed plan and vision, but a 20 year plan. And not just a bunch of 1 liners but a very detailed synopsis by year, etc.  Thinking about all of this and how some of these pieces are coming together, I'm pretty impressed and it may not be as risky as I once thought , not saying there isn't risk, just that now it really looks like viable, at least to me...

like we've all agreed, if nobody is watching, they fold up the tent and go home. So, securing appropriate exposure is critical arm of the plan for success.  So to start, instead of haggling with a TV partner, trying to get them to fund the league in essence, they give them the first 5 years, free... CBS get to make the money from the advertisers, AAF had a had in determining the numbers of TV breaks there will be to coincide with their plans, CBS has little at risk, the AAF just national broadcast exposure on a platform that is limited to only some cable packages  or not at all for some. CBS will have an incentive to promote the crap out of the league as opening day approaches because they get to keep all of the money.  This will allow the AAF to have a little time to grow the actual gate attendence in their individual markets

Keep in mind, that if they are to make it to year 5 because of this, it was brilliant because they still have the rights and now have something to either promote to a potential buyer, or keep for themselves to continue to fund their league because they won't give the rights away for another 5 years.

The cost are somewhat limited and at least controlled and known, plus, it keeps everyone in line as each player, regardless of position, makes the same money. The players are keep interested and coming to the league because a) the will make pretty good base for 4 months of work, b) knows the NFL will be watching and if the doorbell rings they will be allowed to leave and pursue, and c) there are ways for them to make more than the base from the gambling, social media, team and personal performance incentives.

You all brought up a good point about "what are they going to bet on because there is no base line data from which one can make an informed bet", but there will be, or at least it is proposed, we'll have to see how it works. From what I have determined from what I've read is, they are really looking to push the 'in game' experience for the fan but also the gambler. In order to do so they will be outfitting the players with technology that will provide 'real time' data made available to the 'fans' and they will be able to bet on the out come. Here is a link that provides some details and insight as to what they plan: http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/24632798/alliance-american-football-enhanced-live-game-betting (http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/24632798/alliance-american-football-enhanced-live-game-betting) 

Also, you know that they will be doing things much like the CFL, selling advertising opportunities and so forth. And, given the value of owning an NFL franchise and the lure of parlaying you capital into a relatively short term investment, say 3 to 5 years, yet could potentially yield a return many multiples of your cash outlay may not be that hard of a sell, especially if you have a lot of money, such as the venture capital folks... While I know its still a lot of money, in scale its not much different than the risk I assume in the stock market given the overall effect it has on each of our bottom lines. In January I lost $40,000 in 3 days... I continues exposure was more controlled because I could monitor activity and decide how much more I would be willing to do, these investors will do the same...

I don't know, maybe they are on to something here...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 04, 2018, 08:35:13 PM
A solid case could be made against the NCAA for exploiting student athletes to fill their coffers and subsidize the education of the rest of the student body.  Spenser Strasmore will be pushing this argument hard in the next season of Ballers, he may yet change the world!

I'm not too sure that there isn't a case in court right now, there was one going on several months ago and I don't recall hearing of a resolution...

but keep in mind, even though football and men's basketball haul in boat loads of money, they also fund all of the other sports and activities that operate at huge losses each year. Not to mention the Title IX requirements that they fund and repayment to the school for all of the coaches salaries, medical and training staff, sports scholarships, room and board, books, and student stipends that are there only because these athletes are there... I'm not saying that it's fair, but there is more to the conversation than the schools are sitting fat and pretty off of the labor of kids...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: bigbuff33 on December 05, 2018, 11:24:57 AM
Trou Polomalu in promo ad for AAF...

The league will pay for players' housing and health insurance...on top of three year guaranteed salaries...with the freedom to go to the NFL at any time...

Wow


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Jesse on December 05, 2018, 11:46:23 AM
Trou Polomalu in promo ad for AAF...

The league will pay for players' housing and health insurance...on top of three year guaranteed salaries...with the freedom to go to the NFL at any time...

Wow

That video made me more skeptical than ever. Who is paying for all of these promises and long can they possibly do it for?


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: buckzumhoff on December 05, 2018, 02:51:04 PM
CFL should keep the salaries up and get rid of the practice roster pay salary. They should field more players and pay them what they sign them for and not reduce their salary if they are on the practice roster. That will hurt players from staying here or coming here. I would keep qb salaries in check and pay more for receivers , running backs, and defensive backs. Some o-linemen make more than a good defensive back, Defensive lineman salaries , some get twice as much as another player. They should balance it more.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 05, 2018, 04:13:04 PM
you know, I had been looking for the terms of the TV deal online probably since July and was never able to find anything. You shedding the light on the fact there is no pay out to the league makes it all a lot clearer for me, lol. It also makes me think that these guys are pretty smart and have a pretty thought out long term plan, and it just might work...

I do recall a statement made by the fine folks at CBS as to why they were on board, and it goes something like this... They said they were really impressed with Ebersol and his group as they came to them with not a 1, 2, or 3 year detailed plan and vision, but a 20 year plan. And not just a bunch of 1 liners but a very detailed synopsis by year, etc.  Thinking about all of this and how some of these pieces are coming together, I'm pretty impressed and it may not be as risky as I once thought , not saying there isn't risk, just that now it really looks like viable, at least to me...

like we've all agreed, if nobody is watching, they fold up the tent and go home. So, securing appropriate exposure is critical arm of the plan for success.  So to start, instead of haggling with a TV partner, trying to get them to fund the league in essence, they give them the first 5 years, free... CBS get to make the money from the advertisers, AAF had a had in determining the numbers of TV breaks there will be to coincide with their plans, CBS has little at risk, the AAF just national broadcast exposure on a platform that is limited to only some cable packages  or not at all for some. CBS will have an incentive to promote the crap out of the league as opening day approaches because they get to keep all of the money.  This will allow the AAF to have a little time to grow the actual gate attendence in their individual markets

Keep in mind, that if they are to make it to year 5 because of this, it was brilliant because they still have the rights and now have something to either promote to a potential buyer, or keep for themselves to continue to fund their league because they won't give the rights away for another 5 years.

The cost are somewhat limited and at least controlled and known, plus, it keeps everyone in line as each player, regardless of position, makes the same money. The players are keep interested and coming to the league because a) the will make pretty good base for 4 months of work, b) knows the NFL will be watching and if the doorbell rings they will be allowed to leave and pursue, and c) there are ways for them to make more than the base from the gambling, social media, team and personal performance incentives.

You all brought up a good point about "what are they going to bet on because there is no base line data from which one can make an informed bet", but there will be, or at least it is proposed, we'll have to see how it works. From what I have determined from what I've read is, they are really looking to push the 'in game' experience for the fan but also the gambler. In order to do so they will be outfitting the players with technology that will provide 'real time' data made available to the 'fans' and they will be able to bet on the out come. Here is a link that provides some details and insight as to what they plan: http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/24632798/alliance-american-football-enhanced-live-game-betting (http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/24632798/alliance-american-football-enhanced-live-game-betting) 

Also, you know that they will be doing things much like the CFL, selling advertising opportunities and so forth. And, given the value of owning an NFL franchise and the lure of parlaying you capital into a relatively short term investment, say 3 to 5 years, yet could potentially yield a return many multiples of your cash outlay may not be that hard of a sell, especially if you have a lot of money, such as the venture capital folks... While I know its still a lot of money, in scale its not much different than the risk I assume in the stock market given the overall effect it has on each of our bottom lines. In January I lost $40,000 in 3 days... I continues exposure was more controlled because I could monitor activity and decide how much more I would be willing to do, these investors will do the same...

I don't know, maybe they are on to something here...

My doubt this league succeeds is purely from a financial aspect , and it is mainly because the vast majority o f funding comes from venture capatilists who, as a rule, are notlriously impatient investors. I don't see the revenue generating structure as particularly realistic either.

I do, however, like their football ops ideas and think that they will recruit good players. I think their impact on the CFL will be minimal because the CFL recruits in a different way than they will. The AAF wants to be a feeder league to the NFL. Imo, because of that they will not recruit tbe tweeners and those that lack in any of the measurables. The CFL has survived by finding the ballers that will never vet an NFL shot because they are an inch too short or 20 lbs underweigjht for their position.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on December 05, 2018, 04:49:35 PM
My doubt this league succeeds is purely from a financial aspect , and it is mainly because the vast majority o f funding comes from venture capatilists who, as a rule, are notlriously impatient investors. I don't see the revenue generating structure as particularly realistic either.

I do, however, like their football ops ideas and think that they will recruit good players. I think their impact on the CFL will be minimal because the CFL recruits in a different way than they will. The AAF wants to be a feeder league to the NFL. Imo, because of that they will not recruit tbe tweeners and those that lack in any of the measurables. The CFL has survived by finding the ballers that will never vet an NFL shot because they are an inch too short or 20 lbs underweigjht for their position.

I agree. We'd probably miss out on the Cameron Wakes and Jon Ryans of the world. Not a huge deal, but those guys are good for marketing the CFL even among American football circles.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 05, 2018, 06:55:02 PM
I don't know guys, purely my opinion, but, I think money is the least of their worries and here is why I say that...

it's not like there are these guys that have a couple hundred grand between them and trying to stay alive by 'robbing Peter to pay Paul' until it catches up with them. They have at least 5 or 6 large vesting group on board already and maybe more, I'm not for sure. But I'm sure that if their performance milestones are met they will continue to be funded. It all boils down to if they can get people to watch as they are trying to build a league that doesn't have to live or die based upon 'butts in the seats', or at least not completely.

Again, based upon what I've read, Ebersol has a very detailed 20 year plan that he has created and I'm sure that this is what those investment are based off. He will have projected performance markers outlined within this document which he sold his ideas to these investor that he will have to met in order to keep being funded. As long as he keeps hitting his numbers we keep getting paid.

I would say that all of these leagues before them were dependent of the team owner to keep successful with his team. Team starts losing money, owner quits, walks away. That won't happen here, one person/entity owns all of the teams and will determine how money is spent and where is it spent. Their investment isn't pinned to the pipe dreams of a what to be owner who spends money like a drunken sailor. Basically 1 team, with 1 owner, with 1 set of books that investors will have ample access to...

After all, he's not trying to sell this as a gate, otherwise why would these teams be playing in modest sized stadiums? Plus, to get a wide national audience we gave away the first 5 years of TV revenue... All gates will be available for FREE via a free app... It all goes back to obtaining a following, not having them pay for it. Money will come from other business partners or advertising based upon these numbers.

It all boils down to if there is enough interest if extending the football viewing season by 3 more months for the football fan. I have no doubt they can assemble a product worth watching, but will people want to watch? One of the things they have going for them is that they are not competing against other football leagues and trying to steal their fans as their schedule doesn't overlap with anyone's. This plus it happening during the winter months here and there is not as much to do as there would be in the summer or fall.

In the end, if it fails, it won't be because investors where swindled, or he thought he was big enough to take on the NFL and compete head to head, it will be because the fans will be telling him, 6 months of football is all I'm interested in...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 05, 2018, 07:00:35 PM
I agree. We'd probably miss out on the Cameron Wakes and Jon Ryans of the world. Not a huge deal, but those guys are good for marketing the CFL even among American football circles.

plus, there will be a whole different group of guys that may be interested in playing pro ball now that before didn't want to commit to 7 month in a foreign country. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I believe the pool of available players will probably grow, not shrink, and the AAF will be getting players that are not in the same pool of players the CFL is currently drawing from. Sure, there will be some overlap but the most part there is plenty to good around.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: booch on December 05, 2018, 07:12:50 PM
Agreed...the availability of players was never going to really be the issue...but I just don't think that the U.S public at large will really care about it even with the angle of former College starts being allocated to their regional team.

My experience in playing down there was that if it wasn't NFL...or NCAA Div 1 ball...most don't give a ****..and with no t.v revenue and sponsorship/advertisement/commercials to go with that, and most likely a sagging gate revenue...I can't see it lasting. The hopes of the NFL buying it up too, is just a far sighted pipe dream...NFL tried that before, and aren't in the business of losing money, nor do they hitch their brand on something percieved as "minor league" or inferior

They don't have a minor league as they don't need it..The players they want from draft classes are 9 times out of 10 pro ready, and they have the CFL to watch the guys who fall through the cracks, or the tweeners develop and can just grab then from there ater a year or 2 of far superior ball/competition...and the rule diferences are irrelevant as the guys they generally poach grew up playing American Ball anyway, and from experience going back from playing Canadian Ball to American Ball is soooo much easier...and you usually go back as a better all around conditioned athlete to boot


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Stretch on December 05, 2018, 07:19:06 PM

I would say that all of these leagues before them were dependent of the team owner to keep successful with his team. Team starts losing money, owner quits, walks away. That won't happen here, one person/entity owns all of the teams and will determine how money is spent and where is it spent. Their investment isn't pinned to the pipe dreams of a what to be owner who spends money like a drunken sailor. Basically 1 team, with 1 owner, with 1 set of books that investors will have ample access to...

I know it's not the best comparison for many reasons, but isn't that how the XFL 1.0 operated?


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Stretch on December 05, 2018, 07:21:25 PM
It all boils down to if there is enough interest if extending the football viewing season by 3 more months for the football fan. I have no doubt they can assemble a product worth watching, but will people want to watch? One of the things they have going for them is that they are not competing against other football leagues and trying to steal their fans as their schedule doesn't overlap with anyone's. This plus it happening during the winter months here and there is not as much to do as there would be in the summer or fall.

I think that is the key. They'd just have to hope that the football fans in their target audience aren't also fans of NCAA March Madness, or MLB Spring Training, or late season NBA or NHL, or NASCAR, or...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 05, 2018, 08:04:48 PM
I think that is the key. They'd just have to hope that the football fans in their target audience aren't also fans of NCAA March Madness, or MLB Spring Training, or late season NBA or NHL, or NASCAR, or...

or fishing...or spending time outdoors in the spring...or many, many other pursuits that spring brings.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 05, 2018, 08:07:00 PM
I agree. We'd probably miss out on the Cameron Wakes and Jon Ryans of the world. Not a huge deal, but those guys are good for marketing the CFL even among American football circles.

They are, but nowadays the Wake's and the Ryans wouldn't be here for more than a season. Since the NFL practice rosters extended those type of players don't shake loose much anymore.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: lenny on December 05, 2018, 08:40:06 PM
plus, there will be a whole different group of guys that may be interested in playing pro ball now that before didn't want to commit to 7 month in a foreign country. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I believe the pool of available players will probably grow, not shrink, and the AAF will be getting players that are not in the same pool of players the CFL is currently drawing from. Sure, there will be some overlap but the most part there is plenty to good around.

Also factor in the XFL just announced they start operations in 2020 with eight cities.

XFL.com


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on December 05, 2018, 08:48:55 PM
Also factor in the XFL just announced they start operations in 2020 with eight cities.

XFL.com

I'm more certain the XFL will be a big failure. The brand has no credibility. I wonder how much market research they've done? My gut tells me they would have been better starting from scratch. The name XFL roughly equals one big joke and it will take a heck of a lot of time, effort and money to move those opinions.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 05, 2018, 08:51:27 PM
I'm more certain the XFL will be a big failure. The brand has no credibility. I wonder how much market research they've done? My gut tells me they would have been better starting from scratch. The name XFL roughly equals one big joke and it will take a heck of a lot of time, effort and money to move those opinions.


XFL base salary is pretty poor. Can't see a ton of really good players going there. They will get guys, just like Arena Football gets guys, but it will be a poor league.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue girl on December 05, 2018, 10:40:48 PM
I'm more certain the XFL will be a big failure. The brand has no credibility. I wonder how much market research they've done? My gut tells me they would have been better starting from scratch. The name XFL roughly equals one big joke and it will take a heck of a lot of time, effort and money to move those opinions.

I agree with you. After seeing the cities that they're going into other than St. Louis they all have NFL teams. They will be nothing but a second rate league.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: buckzumhoff on December 05, 2018, 10:52:22 PM
I think both leagues  will do good. AAF for sure. A lot of people are turned off on the NFL.  They will add excitement to the game . Watching NASCar isn't going to turn people off watching football. CFL will lose main supply of players to compete up here. We may sign the ones we have but it being 4 down football, the timing is right in the season. Might hurt NHL viewership in the states.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 06, 2018, 12:02:45 AM
or fishing...or spending time outdoors in the spring...or many, many other pursuits that spring brings.

I can't say what you guys do up there in Feb. and March, but us boys down here those are not fishing months, lol... the first day of spring is supposed to be what? March 21? Still can have a lot of cool/cold weather here until and thru mid April here, my birthday is 4/19 and we've had snow on the ground on my birthday in the past...

If they are smart, they make their streaming app like ESPN did, because you don't have to watch the games live. ESPN allow you to replay the game on their app/site as soon as it's complete. That really makes it easy to follow as you can do it on your own schedule... I like it anyway...

But for the record, I'm not saying this venture will work, or last more than a year, just giving you all my opinion from my perspective...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 06, 2018, 01:08:54 AM
I can't say what you guys do up there in Feb. and March, but us boys down here those are not fishing months, lol... the first day of spring is supposed to be what? March 21? Still can have a lot of cool/cold weather here until and thru mid April here, my birthday is 4/19 and we've had snow on the ground on my birthday in the past...

If they are smart, they make their streaming app like ESPN did, because you don't have to watch the games live. ESPN allow you to replay the game on their app/site as soon as it's complete. That really makes it easy to follow as you can do it on your own schedule... I like it anyway...

But for the record, I'm not saying this venture will work, or last more than a year, just giving you all my opinion from my perspective...

February and March not fishing months? Man you Yankees are soft. lol


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: buckzumhoff on December 06, 2018, 12:55:03 PM
Its illegal to fish til April 30 I think. So. Unelss there is still ice the lake.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 06, 2018, 01:43:51 PM
Its illegal to fish til April 30 I think. So. Unelss there is still ice the lake.

You can fish until April 15th I believe and then it closes until middle of May.....and yes...it's definitely ice fishing. 66 might not know what that is...lol.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: bigbuff33 on December 06, 2018, 02:56:18 PM
That's a lot of football players getting paid in American dollars!!!
When the AAF offers housing and health insurance on top of the contract and the freedom to leave if NFL is interested...I'd suggest it's time to be concerned


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Jesse on December 06, 2018, 05:21:13 PM
That's a lot of football players getting paid in American dollars!!!
When the AAF offers housing and health insurance on top of the contract and the freedom to leave if NFL is interested...I'd suggest it's time to be concerned

Saying they're going to and actually paying for all of it are two different things.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: VictorRomano on December 06, 2018, 05:53:43 PM
Saying they're going to and actually paying for all of it are two different things.

With regards to the XFL, Vince McMahon put over $100mil of his own money up to bankroll this.  I saw part of an interview (ESPN, IIRC?) where he stated that the XFL (and it's parent company Alpha Entertainment, which is wholly owned by McMahon with no outside investors) has enough cash available and banked to float the league for 5 seasons even if they make zero profit from Day 1.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on December 06, 2018, 06:10:46 PM
With regards to the XFL, Vince McMahon put over $100mil of his own money up to bankroll this.  I saw part of an interview (ESPN, IIRC?) where he stated that the XFL (and it's parent company Alpha Entertainment, which is wholly owned by McMahon with no outside investors) has enough cash available and banked to float the league for 5 seasons even if they make zero profit from Day 1.

Sure, the question is: will they? The answer is only if they see the opportunity for return on investment.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 06, 2018, 07:03:34 PM
Saying they're going to and actually paying for all of it are two different things.

Exactly. Good intentions don't pay the bills. There were dozens of players whose cheques were bouncing and they kept playing on the promise the money was coming, in the WLAF and UFL. All of them had nice contracts in American dollars too. Unfortunately for them, bankruptcy meant they never saw a dime of the money owed to them. Herschel Walker is still owed 2 million dollars for his playing time in the USFL...money that he will never see. So while it may sound great, unless this league can survive none of the benefits or contracts they have signed mean anything until the cheque clears.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 06, 2018, 07:09:25 PM
With regards to the XFL, Vince McMahon put over $100mil of his own money up to bankroll this.  I saw part of an interview (ESPN, IIRC?) where he stated that the XFL (and it's parent company Alpha Entertainment, which is wholly owned by McMahon with no outside investors) has enough cash available and banked to float the league for 5 seasons even if they make zero profit from Day 1.

Vince McMahon likely does keep the league going if it's breaking even. The question is does he keep it going if it's losing money. I highly doubt it.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on December 06, 2018, 07:24:37 PM
Never knew their long term plan was a buyout to function as a minor league feeder and development league like the AHL--->NHL. This is workable in the NHL because attendance averages around 5000-6000 and the salaries are related to around 23 players. Double that for football and I would seriously think their attendance figures would cripple such a league. Given this long-term plan I think many players thinking about this have to reconsider its viability or lack of same. They might wait until this long-term plan can actually come to fruition if it has any hope of viability.

40 home games vs. 5... that means 8x the aversge attendance so 50k.  And many AHL salaries are paid by NHL clubs...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 07, 2018, 03:55:04 AM
Sounds to me like he has 'the bird in hand'... here are a couple of snipets from some online articles I found...

"The Alliance of American Football is backed by investors including Peter Thiel?s Founders Fund, Slow Ventures, Peter Chernin?s Chernin Group, Adrian Fenty and Charles King?s M Ventures, Keith Rabois, and former NFL all-pro Jared Allen. The AAF is not disclosing how much funding it has raised, but ?we are confident we have the right team and long-term financial resources in place to ensure fans will experience high-quality professional football for many seasons to come,? Ebersol said in a statement."

and...

"The AAF carries a roster of high-profile investors including The Chernin Group and Founders Fund, which was an early investor in Facebook, Space-X and Lyft. M Ventures, entrepreneur Keith Rabois and former NFLer Jared Allen also are investing in the league. Charlie Ebersol would not say how much he raised or how much the league needs to succeed. ?Getting a lot of money was obviously important, but getting the right money was even more important,? Ebersol said. ?All of these previous attempts have been based on the idea of a one- or two-year business model. I went out and said, ?Look, I need money for seven-to-10 years.? They were the type of people that jumped on board.? The AAF already has a deal in place with CBS Sports, which has committed to show the league?s first game in primetime on its broadcast network on Feb. 9. That is the week following Super Bowl LII, which will be produced by CBS. The broadcast network also has committed to show the league?s first championship game in primetime the weekend of April 26-28. CBS Sports Network will carry a weekly regular-season game. All games will be live streamed for free via the league?s app, which will allow for an in-game fantasy component."


a short one...

""I think where businesses like this fail is that they expect to have ludicrous and unrealistic ticket and media deal projections in year one," Ebersol added. "Our investors here understand that it's a seven-to-ten-year plan."

Those investors, which make the AAF different to the solely McMahon-funded XFL, include former Minnesota Vikings defensive end Jared Allen, Peter Thiel's Founders Fund and The Chernin Group which, among other investments, owns a significant share of Barstool Sports."


and lastly...

"Many of the other leagues have either been underfunded or undermanned in terms of real professional people to run it,? said Polian, whose Alliance partnership was formed with Charlie Ebersol after the film/television producer (and son of TV legend Dick Ebersol) asked for advice in 2017 about a spring football revival. "In this case, we think we have both (covered). We have the funding and we?ve got the people. Our investors are in it for the long run."


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: bigbuff33 on December 07, 2018, 11:45:05 AM
CBS showing the first game in prime time...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 07, 2018, 12:55:11 PM
Sounds to me like he has 'the bird in hand'... here are a couple of snipets from some online articles I found...

"The Alliance of American Football is backed by investors including Peter Thiel?s Founders Fund, Slow Ventures, Peter Chernin?s Chernin Group, Adrian Fenty and Charles King?s M Ventures, Keith Rabois, and former NFL all-pro Jared Allen. The AAF is not disclosing how much funding it has raised, but ?we are confident we have the right team and long-term financial resources in place to ensure fans will experience high-quality professional football for many seasons to come,? Ebersol said in a statement."

and...

"The AAF carries a roster of high-profile investors including The Chernin Group and Founders Fund, which was an early investor in Facebook, Space-X and Lyft. M Ventures, entrepreneur Keith Rabois and former NFLer Jared Allen also are investing in the league. Charlie Ebersol would not say how much he raised or how much the league needs to succeed. ?Getting a lot of money was obviously important, but getting the right money was even more important,? Ebersol said. ?All of these previous attempts have been based on the idea of a one- or two-year business model. I went out and said, ?Look, I need money for seven-to-10 years.? They were the type of people that jumped on board.? The AAF already has a deal in place with CBS Sports, which has committed to show the league?s first game in primetime on its broadcast network on Feb. 9. That is the week following Super Bowl LII, which will be produced by CBS. The broadcast network also has committed to show the league?s first championship game in primetime the weekend of April 26-28. CBS Sports Network will carry a weekly regular-season game. All games will be live streamed for free via the league?s app, which will allow for an in-game fantasy component."


a short one...

""I think where businesses like this fail is that they expect to have ludicrous and unrealistic ticket and media deal projections in year one," Ebersol added. "Our investors here understand that it's a seven-to-ten-year plan."

Those investors, which make the AAF different to the solely McMahon-funded XFL, include former Minnesota Vikings defensive end Jared Allen, Peter Thiel's Founders Fund and The Chernin Group which, among other investments, owns a significant share of Barstool Sports."


and lastly...

"Many of the other leagues have either been underfunded or undermanned in terms of real professional people to run it,? said Polian, whose Alliance partnership was formed with Charlie Ebersol after the film/television producer (and son of TV legend Dick Ebersol) asked for advice in 2017 about a spring football revival. "In this case, we think we have both (covered). We have the funding and we?ve got the people. Our investors are in it for the long run."

I am sure the investors will stay as long as the league is break even or near break even. We shall see their commitment level when the league hemorrhages money in the first couple of years. I have seen a LOT of these start up leagues come and go, and in every single one of them the founder of the league declared that he had solid, long term investors to weather the storm for a few years. Not a single one of those investors were as committed as the man who had the pipe dream.

I'm not saying that it may not be different this time. It could be. I am just very skeptical due to what history has taught us about new leagues, with no revenues, and supposed long term investment.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue_or_die on December 07, 2018, 01:17:04 PM
CBS showing the first game in prime time...

Look out Storage Wars and My 600 lb Life!


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on December 07, 2018, 03:20:30 PM
The live streaming is an excellent idea IMO. Why worry about a large tv package IF you can get good streaming numbers. IF you do get good streaming numbers you can essentially eliminate the middle man "cable" and have advertising and sponsors directly work with you, while still providing a "free" way for fans to watch the game and to exponentially increase your stream numbers and potential revenue. IMHO that is a win, win, win.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue_or_die on December 07, 2018, 03:24:52 PM
The live streaming is an excellent idea IMO. Why worry about a large tv package IF you can get good streaming numbers. IF you do get good streaming numbers you can essentially eliminate the middle man "cable" and have advertising and sponsors directly work with you, while still providing a "free" way for fans to watch the game and to exponentially increase your stream numbers and potential revenue. IMHO that is a win, win, win.

That's a super good point. I think/hope that traditional cable moves that direction within the next 5 years anyway, with sports being a leader.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 07, 2018, 04:20:33 PM
The live streaming is an excellent idea IMO. Why worry about a large tv package IF you can get good streaming numbers. IF you do get good streaming numbers you can essentially eliminate the middle man "cable" and have advertising and sponsors directly work with you, while still providing a "free" way for fans to watch the game and to exponentially increase your stream numbers and potential revenue. IMHO that is a win, win, win.

Counterpoint, relying on streaming limits them to "intentional" viewers and eliminates "accidental" viewers who may stumble upon the  broadcast while channel surfing and who may continue watching but did not intentionally seek it out.  This segment constitutes a large part of the viewing audience and sponsors are well aware of this fact.  For example when the G.C. aired in the US, a large segment of the American viewers that watched a measurable portion of the broadcast would not have been aware that the game was a scheduled broadcast beforehand and would have continued to watch more out of curiosity than a direct interest in the game.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 07, 2018, 05:08:28 PM
The live streaming is an excellent idea IMO. Why worry about a large tv package IF you can get good streaming numbers. IF you do get good streaming numbers you can essentially eliminate the middle man "cable" and have advertising and sponsors directly work with you, while still providing a "free" way for fans to watch the game and to exponentially increase your stream numbers and potential revenue. IMHO that is a win, win, win.

Streaming of sporting events is a great idea. However, it is not one that generates nearly the advertising dollars of mainstream TV yet. We shall see how it evolves I guess. The problem with streaming is that it eliminates a large portion of traditional viewership. Cord cutters are still a minority.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on December 07, 2018, 05:26:05 PM
CBS showing the first game in prime time...

Ebersol effect


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 07, 2018, 06:39:22 PM
Ebersol effect

Thank you captain obvious.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on December 07, 2018, 07:02:02 PM
Thank you captain obvious.

No problem...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on December 07, 2018, 09:44:33 PM
Streaming of sporting events is a great idea. However, it is not one that generates nearly the advertising dollars of mainstream TV yet. We shall see how it evolves I guess. The problem with streaming is that it eliminates a large portion of traditional viewership. Cord cutters are still a minority.

Today....But look at how much money some bloggers and Youtubers are making. A 7 yr old boy made over $20 million last year opening toys in videos. Advertising is evolving outside "mainstream" thinking at a very fast rate.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on December 07, 2018, 09:50:05 PM
Counterpoint, relying on streaming limits them to "intentional" viewers and eliminates "accidental" viewers who may stumble upon the  broadcast while channel surfing and who may continue watching but did not intentionally seek it out.  This segment constitutes a large part of the viewing audience and sponsors are well aware of this fact.  For example when the G.C. aired in the US, a large segment of the American viewers that watched a measurable portion of the broadcast would not have been aware that the game was a scheduled broadcast beforehand and would have continued to watch more out of curiosity than a direct interest in the game.

Also a true statement today....but how many people may stumble across streams or reposts of streams.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue newt on December 07, 2018, 11:59:18 PM
Today....But look at how much money some bloggers and Youtubers are making. A 7 yr old boy made over $20 million last year opening toys in videos. Advertising is evolving outside "mainstream" thinking at a very fast rate.

A lot depends on the age demographic they are targeting.  I can't imagine my parents ever stumbling across a live stream, because they'd be sitting down to watch traditional television.  But very few of my friends have cable boxes (I can think of one plus my boss probably has one).  As a result, the idea of people flicking channels through a particular broadcast and discovering a show is going the way of the dodo.  I'm not young or a millennial, but even I only flick channels randomly if I'm visiting my parents.  Instead, it's more word-of-mouth (or, the flicking channel equivalent...browsing Netflix). 

So, I agree.  "Mainstream" is evolving at a very quick rate.  And while someone earlier pointed out that football is not a young demographic sport, maybe that's because football hasn't evolved enough with the times.  These new leagues would be very foolish to go after the older NFL audience, because they are settled in their ways, but would be wise to target a younger demographic that doesn't identify with the current pro sports model.  The fact that they are issuing bonuses based on social media tells me that they understand this.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Dodge and Burn on December 08, 2018, 01:18:41 AM
Putting the quality of players coming here aside. I think the cfl's bigger problem is parity, or the illusion of it as of recent years.

Its getting a little tiring seeing Calgary and random East team in the cup.

Having 30 plus free agents every second year accross the board does nothing to build fan-player relationships either.

This upcoming CBA is really important on many levels.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 08, 2018, 05:10:36 AM
streaming is the way to go, in my opinion... as much as I thought that I would hate it, so not the case... adds a lot of flexibility for viewing both in 'how' and 'when'...  I can watch on my phone, laptop, tablet... any where, anytime I choose... plus, you're not held hostage to what ever game your network chooses to air, you can watch them all... or, I was in Houston, TX  one weekend to watch the Houston Cougars play ball and it didn't even cross my mind that they wouldn't have the SEC network down there and I'd miss the Missouri game... but no, had my tablet and was able to watch it...

my 'smart' tv has a web browser and I can stream directly on it as well... streaming will do to cable what cell phones did to land line telephones in the not too distant future, put the majority of them out of business... this is why AT&T transitioned to cellular technology and bought Directv... now you can take your directv everywhere you go and watch it for free, no data, as much as you want, where ever you are, anytime you want... I have that, plus the ESPN stuff, Netflix, and Amazon Prime, lol...

plus, with the AAF app, you can watch the game(s) while being to directly access friends via a messaging ability within the app while seeing how it effects you fantasy players, or so they say... again, they are attempting to make it about the fan experience


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 08, 2018, 03:36:17 PM
streaming is the way to go, in my opinion... as much as I thought that I would hate it, so not the case... adds a lot of flexibility for viewing both in 'how' and 'when'...  I can watch on my phone, laptop, tablet... any where, anytime I choose... plus, you're not held hostage to what ever game your network chooses to air, you can watch them all... or, I was in Houston, TX  one weekend to watch the Houston Cougars play ball and it didn't even cross my mind that they wouldn't have the SEC network down there and I'd miss the Missouri game... but no, had my tablet and was able to watch it...

my 'smart' tv has a web browser and I can stream directly on it as well... streaming will do to cable what cell phones did to land line telephones in the not too distant future, put the majority of them out of business... this is why AT&T transitioned to cellular technology and bought Directv... now you can take your directv everywhere you go and watch it for free, no data, as much as you want, where ever you are, anytime you want... I have that, plus the ESPN stuff, Netflix, and Amazon Prime, lol...

plus, with the AAF app, you can watch the game(s) while being to directly access friends via a messaging ability within the app while seeing how it effects you fantasy players, or so they say... again, they are attempting to make it about the fan experience

I get where you're coming from but not sure you're on the right wave length, "streaming", especially in regard to sports is all about the "real-time" live broadcast, otherwise the final score is already out there and is somewhat difficult to avoid.  Delayed viewing may be okay if you're just trying to catch up and not really focused on the outcome of a specific games but it really spoils the excitement of the event if the final score is known before watching at least imo having experienced both scenarios in the past year a few times.

Most of the existing gambling sites on the Internet that host sports streaming are basically live events without replay capabilities because the only thing gamblers truly care about is the numbers, not the event.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 08, 2018, 07:36:38 PM
I get where you're coming from but not sure you're on the right wave length, "streaming", especially in regard to sports is all about the "real-time" live broadcast, otherwise the final score is already out there and is somewhat difficult to avoid.  Delayed viewing may be okay if you're just trying to catch up and not really focused on the outcome of a specific games but it really spoils the excitement of the event if the final score is known before watching at least imo having experienced both scenarios in the past year a few times.

Most of the existing gambling sites on the Internet that host sports streaming are basically live events without replay capabilities because the only thing gamblers truly care about is the numbers, not the event.


no, I'm with you on that as well, I don't care to watch a game that I already know the outcome of. But like in the fall here, I can go to our high school football on a Friday night and come home afterwards and then watch the Bombers, and trust me, it's not hard to avoid the CFL scores here, lol. The night my grandson was born I was out in the waiting room waiting the Bombers game live. Sure was glad I had the ability to do so there at the hospital, waiting gets tiring, lol.

the big thing to me, is that I can watch out of market games, or games that are just not televised.  I've become pretty adept at avoiding game scores, if I choose. And not to mention, there are times I have a NCAA, NFL, and or a CFL that have the same start times...


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue newt on December 08, 2018, 11:49:31 PM
no, I'm with you on that as well, I don't care to watch a game that I already know the outcome of. But like in the fall here, I can go to our high school football on a Friday night and come home afterwards and then watch the Bombers, and trust me, it's not hard to avoid the CFL scores here, lol. The night my grandson was born I was out in the waiting room waiting the Bombers game live. Sure was glad I had the ability to do so there at the hospital, waiting gets tiring, lol.

the big thing to me, is that I can watch out of market games, or games that are just not televised.  I've become pretty adept at avoiding game scores, if I choose. And not to mention, there are times I have a NCAA, NFL, and or a CFL that have the same start times...

Agree.  I often work during Bomber games and don't always have the luxury of watching them as-it-happens.  I just make a point not to check social media (because I follow the Bomber team page and they always announce the score) until after I watch the game.  The fact that TSN's website has a video-on-demand function for watching games after the fact has been great!  And if I don't check my social media for a whole evening or day until I can watch the game....well, that's probably better for me anyway.  I check those pages way too often as it is!  :D


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 09, 2018, 02:59:56 PM
Agree.  I often work during Bomber games and don't always have the luxury of watching them as-it-happens.  I just make a point not to check social media (because I follow the Bomber team page and they always announce the score) until after I watch the game.  The fact that TSN's website has a video-on-demand function for watching games after the fact has been great!  And if I don't check my social media for a whole evening or day until I can watch the game....well, that's probably better for me anyway.  I check those pages way too often as it is!  :D

It remains to be seen whether TSN can gain a market share of the streaming viewers and convince their advertisers that this is the case.  Many "cord cutters" who watch sports in this way are adverse to paying for the privilege and will continue to watch live streams for free wherever they can find them, many of which are readily available on gaming sites.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: TBURGESS on December 09, 2018, 03:19:10 PM
I don't mind paying for streaming, but I won't pay TSN ever again. They double charged me for my first month. I sent 2 emails and made 4 phone calls. The said they'll reverse the second charge, but they still haven't so I cancelled my subscription.

$26 a month is too much anyway. VMedia charges $16 for the first 6 months (It goes up to $30 after that) for all the regular Canada and US stations including TSN and it's 100% legal. I can stream 1000+ stations with catch-up for $10-15 a month and that includes TSN HD, if I want to go with a good IPTV provider. I can get it for free on Mobdro and others, if I don't mind the poor quality and the extra ads.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue newt on December 09, 2018, 07:02:55 PM
It remains to be seen whether TSN can gain a market share of the streaming viewers and convince their advertisers that this is the case.  Many "cord cutters" who watch sports in this way are adverse to paying for the privilege and will continue to watch live streams for free wherever they can find them, many of which are readily available on gaming sites.

I agree that this is a problem.  I think the main problem is in the pricing schemes that cable tv and individual channels go with.  They have zero flexibility and don't seem to be designed with the consumer in mind at all.  I do know people who stream through free sites, and often it's people who are more casual sports fans.  Neither the cable packages, nor TSNGo is priced for the occasional viewer.  They are priced for the avid sports fan (where I am, for TSN on cable, you first need to purchase the basic package THEN the sports package, and it becomes quite pricey in the end, hence why I don't do cable).  The casual sports fan wanting to watch a football game on a rainy afternoon isn't going to want to shell out $25 for TSNGo or more for cable.  If they had an legal, inexpensive, single game pricing scheme for streaming (2-4$ a game), I think a lot of those people would opt to go that route over illegal but free.

As an aside, I stream the games legally through TSN.  The CFL relies on the money it gets from that partnership, and that partnership only exists if TSN sees a value in it.  If everyone were to stream for free, the CFL would suffer for it in the end.  That being said, I agree that TSNGo needs to review their pricing.  Should be the same cost as adding those channels to a cable package, not several times more.  Isn't removing the middle man supposed to make things cheaper  ???



Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 66 Chevelle on December 10, 2018, 12:40:30 AM
ESPN had me over a barrel so I finally had to pay for their ESPN+ streaming service, which is only $5 per month, but they made me mad. Last year you had to stream the games but you could stream them free on ESPN3, no big deal. Well this year the move the CFL over to their pay platform. I already pay for ESPN programming through Directv so, I had to pony up more money. They are now providing me with some new and exciting coverage on my Directv account, such as, Spikeball and Thursday night they had college cornhole championship...

If you haven't seen Spikeball you're in for a real treat... it looks like a game my brother and I would have made up when we were 10 out in the back yard... and cornhole? seriously? so not a sport and the name alone should have it banned from public television...

they can shuffle off good programming, programming that is actually something a sports fan would like to watch onto their new pay platform and give me spikeball and cornhole on their product I can't drop... but what can you do?


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on December 10, 2018, 11:41:25 AM
This is why I am so curious to see how the AAFL streaming will do. TV contracts make up such a large amount of pro-sports profits, but more and more of the end consumers are getting fed-up with the way "big cable" is "cornhole-ing" them. I have spoken with many "younger" guys and gals and they have absolutily zero interest in cable TV. IF they want to watch sports they stream it (pretty well exclusively for free) or they don't watch it.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 10, 2018, 03:37:37 PM
This is why I am so curious to see how the AAFL streaming will do. TV contracts make up such a large amount of pro-sports profits, but more and more of the end consumers are getting fed-up with the way "big cable" is "cornhole-ing" them. I have spoken with many "younger" guys and gals and they have absolutily zero interest in cable TV. IF they want to watch sports they stream it (pretty well exclusively for free) or they don't watch it.

Hard to say what percentage of the demographic that is, but currently it not the majority the CFL is trying to attract and won't be for at least a few more years.  Is it the future or just representative of a fringe group of viewers?  Maybe....many of these "kids" grow up and the majority of them tend to "buy in" to societal norms eventually just because it is easier and more convenient to do so. 

The other angle to consider is what common steps will corporations take to protect their content from being used, shared or viewed for free?  In the early days of the Internet sharing software and music with others was almost the norm, now days it's probably still possible but not all that convenient or legal to do so.  Just throwing the term "illegal activity" at people in our society tends to make the majority jump into line pretty quickly, even if the laws have no teeth with which to bite.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: TBURGESS on December 10, 2018, 03:55:49 PM
It's not just kids. I'm 60+. I cut the cord and moved away from the big internet providers like Shaw and Telus to get better speeds for less money. I'm paying about a third of what I used to pay and am getting faster internet with no caps. Local TV is over the air and it's great quality. 100% free. 100% legal.

Free streaming is a grey area. Corporations 'go after' companies who share content, not the individual users, but it's like playing 'Whack a mole'. Knock one company off line and two more pop up again. The biggest problems from an end user standpoint is the quality of the free streams, the fact that they aren't up 100% of the time and that you constantly have to look for a new source. When you really want to see something, it's better to pay for the HD stream.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 10, 2018, 04:22:30 PM
It's not just kids. I'm 60+. I cut the cord and moved away from the big internet providers like Shaw and Telus to get better speeds for less money. I'm paying about a third of what I used to pay and am getting faster internet with no caps. Local TV is over the air and it's great quality. 100% free. 100% legal.

Free streaming is a grey area. Corporations 'go after' companies who share content, not the individual users, but it's like playing 'Whack a mole'. Knock one company off line and two more pop up again. The biggest problems from an end user standpoint is the quality of the free streams, the fact that they aren't up 100% of the time and that you constantly have to look for a new source. When you really want to see something, it's better to pay for the HD stream.

Agree 100%, I want guaranteed access to CFL games and the option of watching them whenever I can, and I don't mind paying for it.  A complaint I have about YareTV is that they leave the commercials in even on the replays of games which is so annoying, anyone know if it is the same for TSN Go Video on Demand?


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Norm W on December 10, 2018, 04:37:04 PM

 Thursday night they had college cornhole championship...


Okay I confess I just had to google that.... why on earth would they use cornhole as the name of this event?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjEslIngqig (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjEslIngqig)


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: the paw on December 10, 2018, 04:59:00 PM
Okay I confess I just had to google that.... why on earth would they use cornhole as the name of this event?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjEslIngqig (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjEslIngqig)

they are throwing a bag of corn through a hole......

Regards,

Capt Obvious. 


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 10, 2018, 05:14:07 PM
Okay I confess I just had to google that.... why on earth would they use cornhole as the name of this event?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjEslIngqig (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjEslIngqig)

That is some backwardsassed ****!  Who thought "we should televise this, people will watch!!!"


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Norm W on December 10, 2018, 05:17:34 PM

they are throwing a bag of corn through a hole......

Regards,

Capt Obvious. 


Obvious? I grew up both knowing and calling them bean bags, can honestly say this is the 1st time I have heard the term corn bags.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: The Zipp on December 10, 2018, 05:23:47 PM
That is some backwardsassed ****!  Who thought "we should televise this, people will watch!!!"

I clicked on it too...now my youtube feed is going to have this cornholio crap on it...it is basically a real life SNL sketch..

Its a flippen' bean bag toss nothing more..


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 10, 2018, 05:38:38 PM
Obvious? I grew up both knowing and calling them bean bags, can honestly say this is the 1st time I have heard the term corn bags.

Got to get those "corn dollars" flowing in, probably some govt. subsidies involved.  ;D


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: bluengold204 on December 10, 2018, 06:30:18 PM
It's not just kids. I'm 60+. I cut the cord and moved away from the big internet providers like Shaw and Telus to get better speeds for less money. I'm paying about a third of what I used to pay and am getting faster internet with no caps. Local TV is over the air and it's great quality. 100% free. 100% legal.

Free streaming is a grey area. Corporations 'go after' companies who share content, not the individual users, but it's like playing 'Whack a mole'. Knock one company off line and two more pop up again. The biggest problems from an end user standpoint is the quality of the free streams, the fact that they aren't up 100% of the time and that you constantly have to look for a new source. When you really want to see something, it's better to pay for the HD stream.

May I ask which internet provider you use?  I'm done with shaw lol


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: TBURGESS on December 10, 2018, 07:27:21 PM
I'm on Vmedia (Cable 75 with free TV for 6 Months for $50/Month) mostly because you can get 100% legit TV through them. TekSavvy and Lightspeed are other good options in Calgary, but you have to find your TV elsewhere.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: the paw on December 10, 2018, 07:49:53 PM
Obvious? I grew up both knowing and calling them bean bags, can honestly say this is the 1st time I have heard the term corn bags.

And that's the difference between growing up in Kansas versus the Red River Valley.  If you grew up in Nunavat, the game would probably be Icehole....

 ;D


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Norm W on December 10, 2018, 08:24:29 PM

And that's the difference between growing up in Kansas versus the Red River Valley.  If you grew up in Nunavat, the game would probably be Icehole....

 ;D

...and that little square cotton bag used in Nunavat would be filled with what? ice cubes, crushed ice?


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: buckzumhoff on December 10, 2018, 11:13:23 PM
They call it corn hole so its corn hole. Bean bags have little metal ball bearings, corn bags have corn.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Norm W on December 11, 2018, 12:59:49 PM

Bean bags have little metal ball bearings, corn bags have corn.


Nah... Bean bags have beans in them, ask my dog. Sounds like you have one of those 70's era ball bearing bags, Russian I think?

When's TC start?  ::)


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: blue_or_die on December 11, 2018, 01:03:51 PM
Is this conversation actually happening?


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: The Zipp on December 11, 2018, 01:15:33 PM
Is this conversation actually happening?

It has the makings of a classic off season thread...

so far we have learned about a cornhole championship broadcast on ESPN which essentially is a bean bag toss you find in preschool and kindergarten rooms

debate on what "bean bags" are made of - ponder that for a minute, just let it sink in and enjoy the simplicity of that debate

Happy Holidays folks!!



Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Stretch on December 11, 2018, 04:05:55 PM
Is this conversation actually happening?

Like Norm W said, how long until TC?  :D


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 11, 2018, 04:12:19 PM
Agree 100%, I want guaranteed access to CFL games and the option of watching them whenever I can, and I don't mind paying for it.  A complaint I have about YareTV is that they leave the commercials in even on the replays of games which is so annoying, anyone know if it is the same for TSN Go Video on Demand?

TSNgo does not have the commercials of the original show but does stop every so often for a 30 second Coors Light commercial.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 11, 2018, 05:20:09 PM
Nah... Bean bags have beans in them, ask my dog. Sounds like you have one of those 70's era ball bearing bags, Russian I think?

When's TC start?  ::)

I heard from an Internet friend that those Russian bean bags containing ball bearings are actually radioactive, a clever scheme to trick the West into paying for their nuclear waste disposal program!!! !!!


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on December 11, 2018, 06:44:16 PM
I was looking for a 5" hole saw for ceiling tiles to install lighting in the basement, and kept seeing "cornhole saws".  Finally had to look it up, they actually sell saws specifically for making corn hole boards.  It sounds like it is a pretty big "sport"... maybe not as big as pro bowling (as opposed to ProBowling) but still big enough to sell tools to make the props.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 11, 2018, 06:51:45 PM
They love cornholing in the Midwest. I'm surprised it hasn't caught on in Saskatchewan.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: BlueInCgy on December 11, 2018, 10:34:30 PM
They love cornholing in the Midwest. I'm surprised it hasn't caught on in Saskatchewan.

Pretty sure it's because cornholing is a game you can play with either your brother or sister, and that forces them to make life decisions they may not have considered before.

And by that, I mean, should there be mixed gender competitive sports.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: theaardvark on December 11, 2018, 10:40:25 PM
Pretty sure it's because cornholing is a game you can play with either your brother or sister, and that forces them to make life decisions they may not have considered before.

And by that, I mean, should there be mixed gender competitive sports.

So, its like curling but you can do it in your backyard.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 12, 2018, 12:30:39 PM
So, its like curling but you can do it in your backyard.

That could be one way to look at it I suppose.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 12, 2018, 12:32:00 PM
Pretty sure it's because cornholing is a game you can play with either your brother or sister, and that forces them to make life decisions they may not have considered before.

And by that, I mean, should there be mixed gender competitive sports.

Lots of life decisions between sisters and brothers in Saskatchewan....and by that I mean they are banjo pickers.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: dd on December 12, 2018, 05:12:23 PM
Oh my gosh this is going to be a looooong off season!!!


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: BlueInCgy on December 12, 2018, 07:43:57 PM
So, its like curling but you can do it in your backyard.

Depends on the quality of your fence.

Going to have to dig out the Beavis and Butthead DVDs now.


Title: Re: CFL Free Agents signing with the AAF?
Post by: GCn18 on December 13, 2018, 02:35:33 PM
Oh my gosh this is going to be a looooong off season!!!

One controversial move by the club and we'll have something to bicker about for months.