Blue Bombers Forum

The Extra Point => Blue Bomber & CFL Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 16, 2018, 04:23:03 AM



Title: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 16, 2018, 04:23:03 AM
Kyle Walters is taking his best shot at luring Henoc back into the Bomber fold and it sounds as if he's prepared to pay 200K or.....not sure he can convince him for 200K....??


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on February 16, 2018, 04:45:01 AM
Kyle Walters is taking his best shot at luring Henoc back into the Bomber fold and it sounds as if he's prepared to pay 200K or.....not sure he can convince him for 200K....??
Source?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 16, 2018, 05:17:55 AM
Source?
TSN article....


Walters said he's let the agent of the veteran Canadian linebacker know Winnipeg is interested.

"He's a Canadian starter, a quality Canadian starter, which in our league is at a premium," Walters said.

"Everybody right now will kind of take a look at their roster and their ratio and say, 'Can we or can we not fit Henoc in? What's the price point? How does it fit with the ratio?' "

Muamba, 28, has been in and out of the league since Winnipeg drafted him first overall in 2011.

He played three seasons with the Bombers before the pending free agent was released early in 2014 to pursue the NFL. He signed with the Indianapolis Colts, but got let go and joined the Montreal Alouettes in September 2015.

After playing the remainder of that season with the Als, he was released to try the NFL again in 2016. He signed with Dallas, but was cut and joined Saskatchewan in the fall. He played five games that season and 17 last year, recording 82 tackles, 11 special teams tackles, two interceptions and three forced fumbles.

While the six-foot, 230-pound middle linebacker is now a coveted free agent, the cost for his services is expected to be high.

The Riders released him before he was reportedly due a $35,000 bonus on Feb. 15. His price tag could be around $200,000 per season.

Walters said offers aren't even being taken yet by Muamba and his agent.

"They're not even thinking about that," he said. "Other than just saying that Henoc's been released, they're just going to take a deep breath and figure out what their next move is."

Any deal with Muamba would affect Winnipeg's roster and bank account.

"When you're talking about that kind of price point, and based on what I anticipate based on what he's been earning, I would imagine they're going to want to earn a similar dollar figure," Walters said.

"The way we're currently set up, if you're going to want to add a Henoc Muamba, then something's got to give. That's just the reality of it."

Walters said he believes the team has linebackers who can get the job done at the middle or MAC spot if Muamba doesn't pan out.

"Jovan Santos-Knox for the latter half of the year was a dynamic football player," he said. "He played the WILL linebacker spot, he played MAC in college, so he can play either. And Ian Wild, he's back under contract. Ian's played both as well."

Walters updated where the team is at after the first few days of free agency.

"The three guys we went aggressively hard after, we got," he said.

That trio included a pair of Winnipeggers ? receiver Nic Demski and backup running back Kienan LaFrance ? and American starting defensive back Chandler Fenner.

Prior to free agency, Winnipeg got deals done with quarterback Darian Durant to be a veteran backup to Matt Nichols and all-star receiver Adarius Bowman.

While the Bombers lost players such as defensive lineman Jamaal Westerman, defensive back T.J. Heath and linebacker Sam Hurl, Walters said the roster has improved and young players now have the opportunity to show their development.

That will be needed in the competitive West Division.

"Last year was tough, and everyone's changing and everyone's getting better," Walters said.

"Everybody seems strong, and who can win the tight ball games and who can stay out of injury trouble and survive those sort of things I think is going to be the difference."


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on February 16, 2018, 07:45:28 AM
Walters little speech smacks of loserville.
Winnioeg lost three difference makers, and signed a bunch of cuts and or backups.
To say we are better is a bold  ??? lie.

Another strike out!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 16, 2018, 07:46:57 AM
Kyle Walters is taking his best shot at luring Henoc back into the Bomber fold and it sounds as if he's prepared to pay 200K or.....not sure he can convince him for 200K....??

Reading between the lines I think we have a lot of interest in Muamba IF the price is right.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Chris1982 on February 16, 2018, 08:48:58 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/henoc-muamba-bombers-1.4537892


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 16, 2018, 10:39:07 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/henoc-muamba-bombers-1.4537892

Reads pretty much the same as the TSN article listed above.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Tehedra on February 16, 2018, 01:22:39 PM
I heard something completely different, I heard that Henoc would be a good player who commands a ton of salary and every team will be interested in signing but that it would be a disservice to count out players currently rostered who could also play the spot.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 16, 2018, 01:24:13 PM
Reading between the lines I think we have a lot of interest in Muamba IF the price is right.

It'd sure be nice if the Bombers could pick him up at the right price. Not only does it help the ratio but it really upgrades the defense.

Ed Tait's article touches on some key points: https://www.cfl.ca/2018/02/15/walters-bombers-checking-muamba/ (https://www.cfl.ca/2018/02/15/walters-bombers-checking-muamba/)

Quite frankly, I have no idea how Walters could proclaim to be comfortable with the current group of LBers on the roster.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 16, 2018, 01:27:34 PM
I heard something completely different, I heard that Henoc would be a good player who commands a ton of salary and every team will be interested in signing but that it would be a disservice to count out players currently rostered who could also play the spot.

asking as 'the new guy' here... who do we currently have that has proven capable of filling that role? do we have anyone that has played MLB? or, are they saying that we have defensive players that have shown the ability to play that should be given the chance?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 16, 2018, 01:29:46 PM
asking as 'the new guy' here... who do we currently have that has proven capable of filling that role? do we have anyone that has played MLB? or, are they saying that we have defensive players that have shown the ability to play that should be given the chance?
Wild played MLB for the Bombers for most of the season a few years ago.  He was okay, but at times it was obvious he was a bit undersized, especially when trying to stop Messam.  And of course JSK played MLB in college. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on February 16, 2018, 01:30:04 PM
Walters little speech smacks of loserville.
Winnioeg lost three difference makers, and signed a bunch of cuts and or backups.
To say we are better is a bold  ??? lie.

Another strike out!
Who are the 3 difference makers and why...and who are the back-ups and cuts?...just curious


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bunker on February 16, 2018, 01:32:09 PM
It'd sure be nice if the Bombers could pick him up at the right price. Not only does it help the ratio but it really upgrades the defense.

Ed Tait's article touches on some key points: https://www.cfl.ca/2018/02/15/walters-bombers-checking-muamba/ (https://www.cfl.ca/2018/02/15/walters-bombers-checking-muamba/)

Quite frankly, I have no idea how Walters could proclaim to be comfortable with the current group of LBers on the roster.

He's comfortable in the same way O'Shea always felt Hurl was doing a good job at MLB.

I don't fault him however. He's not going to throw his current players under the bus.

I also think his priorities were correct:

1. Balance the ratio by replacing Westerman with a canadian starter on offence.

2. Replace Heath

3. Bring in some veteran alternatives in the secondary

4. Upgrade at MLB if possible.

Its still too early to say how number 4 will play out.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 16, 2018, 01:36:07 PM
Wild played MLB for the Bombers for most of the season a few couple years ago.  He was okay, but at times it was obvious he was a bit undersized, especially when trying to stop Messam.  And of course JSK played MLB in college. 

so, if proven is the key word, the answer to 1 is no, 2 is not at the CFL level, and 3 would be maybe...  ok, thanks!  I like JSK, he's fiesty and a big hitter, I'd like to see him work his way into that position, just unsure if he's ready now or not... and I do think think the defense in some part goes as the MLB goes... meaning, the better he is the better the overall defense can be...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 16, 2018, 01:41:42 PM
I think it's part of Walter's 'style' of leadership... coming off as comfortable and confident, never showing a sense of urgency... good leaders do that publicly to give those around him confidence and the belief that he believes in them and their abilities... you don't want to start any self doubt in those that you already have, especially if you're unable to acquire anyone else for the position...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 16, 2018, 01:42:34 PM
I think it's part of Walter's 'style' of leadership... coming off as comfortable and confident, never showing a sense of urgency... good leaders do that publicly to give those around him confidence and the belief that he believes in them and their abilities... you don't want to start any self doubt in those that you already have, especially if you're unable to acquire anyone else for the position...
He also doesn't want to look desperate because that would hurt him in negotiations. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 16, 2018, 01:45:42 PM
He also doesn't want to look desperate because that would hurt him in negotiations. 

exactly! good point... that sense of urgency comes off as desperation, hence weakening your bargaining position as well...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on February 16, 2018, 01:46:37 PM
We were all salivating over Larry Dean...a few years ago nobody really knew who he was (he bounced around the NFL for a bit) who is to say that JSK can't be the same quality.  Walters is correct that at some point you do have to develop players and that involves having them play.  You just always can't land all the big free agents - that said I would hope they take a serious run at Muamba - but if they don't land him we may get the opportunity to see JSK emerge as a great CFL LB.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 16, 2018, 01:48:07 PM
We were all salivating over Larry Dean...a few years ago nobody really knew who he was (he bounced around the NFL for a bit) who is to say that JSK can't be the same quality.  Walters is correct that at some point you do have to develop players and that involves having them play.  You just always can't land all the big free agents - that said I would hope they take a serious run at Muamba - but if they don't land him we may get the opportunity to see JSK emerge as a great CFL LB.
Great point and I agree 100%.  I think JSK could be the CFL's next stud MLB. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 16, 2018, 01:53:44 PM
He's comfortable in the same way O'Shea always felt Hurl was doing a good job at MLB.

I don't fault him however. He's not going to throw his current players under the bus.


I also think his priorities were correct:

1. Balance the ratio by replacing Westerman with a canadian starter on offence.

2. Replace Heath

3. Bring in some veteran alternatives in the secondary

4. Upgrade at MLB if possible.

Its still too early to say how number 4 will play out.

I should rephrase: I have no idea how he's comfortable and actually means it. ;)

Obviously, he wouldn't throw any player under the bus but this team hasn't had quality MLBing since Muamba went south in 2014. For four consecutive seasons, we've had to endure this experimentation process at a key defensive position and the results have been mostly disastrous.

I'm not sure if I agree on that priorities list, either. Well, I agree on the points listed but all of the them could be addressed on equal terms, IMO. And with Muamba becoming a free agent, 1 and 4 could've been addressed in one fell swoop. Two birds with one stone and whatnot.

He also doesn't want to look desperate because that would hurt him in negotiations. 

An important trait for any GM. Walters does that very well, IMO.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 16, 2018, 01:56:05 PM
my only thing is this, given the reality of 1 year contracts that you have to strike when you can. They have done a very good job at addressing team needs, pretty much all areas they have improved. That this team could become a very, very good team and contend for a cup this year that may not be able to do so in the years to come.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on February 16, 2018, 01:57:22 PM
All great players start as unknowns...or don't become great until a change of scenery...we shall see but I agree on JSK...He has all the things you want to be a real good one...That being said..let him develop even more onto his great work last year in the same spot...Beside a Muamba...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 16, 2018, 02:02:27 PM
I don't see that he did balance the ratio, in fact I think now we have more of a challenge than before...  if he would have kept the starting national for defense at 2, and then added the extra offensive option, then yeah, he addressed it...  He still can, but options are starting to run out...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 16, 2018, 02:06:56 PM
All great players start as unknowns...or don't become great until a change of scenery...we shall see but I agree on JSK...He has all the things you want to be a real good one...That being said..let him develop even more onto his great work last year in the same spot...Beside a Muamba...

dilly! dilly!

but seriously, I agree, he has an upside for sure... but, even if he can this year, what happens if he gets injured?  If we get Muamba, they can rotate as and when need be, and have some depth as well....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 16, 2018, 02:08:06 PM
Part of my thought is how long can we wait for an answer. Is there another player at MLB or elsewhere that is still available that we could still get NOW. Free agency is a matter of timing. Players available today may not be available by Monday.

My alternative suggestion is that if we don't spend this extra SMS shortly we try and extend some of our top Canadians before the start of the season. That isn't the norm for those not going to be potential free agents.

However with a new CBA coming in 2019 I'd like to ensure we lock up Loffler for example. A bit afraid he might bolt to Vancouver.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 16, 2018, 02:12:23 PM
dilly! dilly!

but seriously, I agree, he has an upside for sure... but, even if he can this year, what happens if he gets injured?  If we get Muamba, they can rotate as and when need be, and have some depth as well....

JSK will be on year 2 of a 2 year entry contract. It's catch 22: he may become a free agent in 2019.

Even if we sign Muamba he probably also only signs a 1 year deal.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 16, 2018, 02:23:42 PM
JSK will be on year 2 of a 2 year entry contract. It's catch 22: he may become a free agent in 2019.

Even if we sign Muamba he probably also only signs a 1 year deal.

true, but we appear to have all of the other pieces in place to make a run for the cup this year... next year we may not be in that same position regardless. so, if there's a chance to get him now, we should in my opinion...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blueraid on February 16, 2018, 02:32:56 PM
I think that's a very good point...we are Cup ready..so to speak...Henoc is 28 and nearing an age where he probably wants to settle down in one spot....I'm sure IF this season pans out and we are Cup bound, then Muamba's future and last stop could be here...He certainly would be earning more (Cup win or even appearances) than with another club..If it is truly about money and or accolades it could be here where he started...If we're comfortable with him in all respects and he is comfortable with us, then this is a no-brainer.  I hope Walters can get it done.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 16, 2018, 02:41:05 PM
true, but we appear to have all of the other pieces in place to make a run for the cup this year... next year we may not be in that same position regardless. so, if there's a chance to get him now, we should in my opinion...

I'm not disagreeing just saying a lot of players are only taking 1 year deals due to impending new CBA in 2019.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue72 on February 16, 2018, 03:09:38 PM
Hebert released from Montreal opens another door for Maumba, I know it was where he left unhappy but Reed loves throwing money around or it may take another MLB off the FA list.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 16, 2018, 03:18:04 PM
Hebert released from Montreal opens another door for Maumba, I know it was where he left unhappy but Reed loves throwing money around or it may take another MLB off the FA list.

Pretty sure Angry Bird plays WIL / FS


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 16, 2018, 03:25:31 PM
Pretty sure Angry Bird plays WIL / FS

SMS room may have been created although I think the Als have more releases to be made to accomplish that.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 16, 2018, 03:40:07 PM
SMS room may have been created although I think the Als have more releases to be made to accomplish that.


there's always the 6 game... you know injuries are going to happen during the season...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on February 16, 2018, 03:42:09 PM
The SMS doesn't matter until the end of the year. Teams have until the vet cut down week to drop big salaries.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on February 16, 2018, 03:43:22 PM
Westerman and Hebert, that's 60 yards in roughing penalties a game. lol


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 16, 2018, 03:45:10 PM
The SMS doesn't matter until the end of the year. Teams have until the vet cut down week to drop big salaries.

that's kind of where I was headed with that... we can 'adjust' as needed through out the season...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on February 16, 2018, 04:04:15 PM
The SMS doesn't matter until the end of the year. Teams have until the vet cut down week to drop big salaries.

I think it would be more accurate to say that SMS doesn't really start to matter until you set your roster for the first regular season game.  The final accounting doesn't happen until the end of the year, but every game that goes by where you overspend your budget not only increases the need to find a corresponding saving, but shrinks the time available to find it. 

Your opening day roster should project in a way that, if no injuries were suffered, you would spend right to the cap. As you incur 6 game injuries, you will invariably fill those spots with lower cost back-ups, creating a savings.  Those accrued savings are the dollars spend at the end of the year to extend guys.  This is the process Walters described in his presser the other day, and any approach that starts with an overbudget SMS and relies on savings to get under is foolhardy, and poor management. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 16, 2018, 04:40:33 PM
Walters is not the kind of GM that makes a mid season cut for SMS purposes.  Unless a player is truly awful, they can pretty much expect their contract to survive the season.  Which is a good thing from a recruitment standpoint.

I don't think this team is capable of hiding salary on the 6 game, either.  Jones has no compunction against it, and will be able to sell players on signing with them and then dump them before a bonus is due, even though the player's play is not an issue. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 16, 2018, 04:50:42 PM
Walters is not the kind of GM that makes a mid season cut for SMS purposes.  Unless a player is truly awful, they can pretty much expect their contract to survive the season.  Which is a good thing from a recruitment standpoint.

I don't think this team is capable of hiding salary on the 6 game, either.  Jones has no compunction against it, and will be able to sell players on signing with them and then dump them before a bonus is due, even though the player's play is not an issue. 

but to think that we can go all year without a single player hitting the 6 game is a pipe dream though... it happens... after all, Dressler will need a mid season breather, lol... just kidding, don't get all riled up...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue72 on February 16, 2018, 04:51:04 PM
Like some have said, no use looking at the SMS right now. Who is to say that a vet or 2 will still be around come game one, plus the way our main receivers have been falling to injuries the last couple year means they could be placed on 6 game and a rookie could take their place with a big savings. We still don't know much about Leggetts injury, will he be ready to go game one. Lots could happen before TC and during TC, injuries, cuts and trades.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on February 16, 2018, 04:52:43 PM
I think it would be more accurate to say that SMS doesn't really start to matter until you set your roster for the first regular season game.  The final accounting doesn't happen until the end of the year, but every game that goes by where you overspend your budget not only increases the need to find a corresponding saving, but shrinks the time available to find it. 

Your opening day roster should project in a way that, if no injuries were suffered, you would spend right to the cap. As you incur 6 game injuries, you will invariably fill those spots with lower cost back-ups, creating a savings.  Those accrued savings are the dollars spend at the end of the year to extend guys.  This is the process Walters described in his presser the other day, and any approach that starts with an overbudget SMS and relies on savings to get under is foolhardy, and poor management. 
SMS is present in all roster decisions, but it really doesn't matter this early on. The team can cut overpaid/under performing players any time. The biggest salaries are the vet NI starters, who need to be cut or placed on the 6 game IR before vet cut down day to remove their salaries from the SMS. Placing a young guy on the 6 game doesn't result in any SMS savings as they have to replace him with an equal priced player. There's no way to predict which players will end up on the 6 game, so you can't accurately budget for it. For example, last year Edmonton had tons of players on the 6 game, we had 4.

Most teams don't spend to the cap. They keep a certain amount in reserve for good players coming back to or into the CFL, for guys they might trade for  and for replacements that will be needed during the season. If they don't need to use that reserve, they use it to extend players at the end of the year with this years SMS.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 16, 2018, 05:10:49 PM
Its apparent that GMs need major accounting and planning skills to assemble a winning CFL team.....Walters seems to be very methodical in his approach and has stepped up his game.   Whether or not we land Muamba he has to plan for the possibility that we may not sign him or any of the remaining FA LBs for that matter.  I?m not one who remotely understands the SMS system as many of you seem to.....however if we don?t end up acquiring a stud LBer on the FA market I?m still having some doubts about our defence.   It?s been our Achilles heel the past two seasons and depth at the LB position has been an issue....still hoping we land someone to help out our LBs even if JSK is our future MLBer.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 16, 2018, 05:20:54 PM
I'm sure Walters will make what he feels is a fair offer for Muamba, but he won't overpay.  My guess is that's it is less than 50/50 we land Muamba.  Walters doesn't overpay, and Muamba's agent is all about creating biding wars and getting top dollar for his client.  Unless Henoc really wants to be in Winnipeg, I don't see it happening. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 17, 2018, 05:49:17 AM
asking as 'the new guy' here... who do we currently have that has proven capable of filling that role? do we have anyone that has played MLB? or, are they saying that we have defensive players that have shown the ability to play that should be given the chance?

Also, Miles started at MLB in TOR for at least half a year.  I would put him above Wild in capability at MLB.  But not Singleton level.

The thing I'm wondering about JSK is has he ever played MLB, like in college?  Or would we be throwing him into the unknown...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on February 17, 2018, 06:40:06 AM
He played all the linebacker positions..played all over and was a real tackling machine ....he knows the position

You have to remember that last year he came into camp near the last part of it..so never had the chance to compete for the MLB spot.. but he showed enough to stick after camp ...then made roster on ST's and when he got his shot in the starting defense..well they couldn't take him out...i see a big yr out of him regardless where he plays


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 17, 2018, 07:22:43 AM
I?m liking what I?m hearing about JSK....and Miles.   It?s Wild that concerns me as he has a track record of injuries.....would be great to acquire one more stud LBer for depth....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 17, 2018, 09:36:34 AM
Also, Miles started at MLB in TOR for at least half a year.  I would put him above Wild in capability at MLB.  But not Singleton level.

The thing I'm wondering about JSK is has he ever played MLB, like in college?  Or would we be throwing him into the unknown...

Yes JSK played MLB in college. He?s very versatile.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 17, 2018, 06:19:50 PM
Yes JSK played MLB in college. He?s very versatile.

If every player that did well in US college could repeat that in the CFL, life would be so easy.

I'm hoping he can succeed but that goes with every rookie we bring to TC every year and the great expectations we as posters have.

Obviously JSK is a 2nd year player but the same thought still applies. He appears to be a solid candidate for the role. Not even certain that O'Shea/ Hall plan to move him from WIL.

Wild wasn't the answer at MLB so the logic is to try JSK.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on February 17, 2018, 10:12:49 PM
Not sure of all the love for Muamba other than his passport. He has not been the same player since he came back from the NFL as he has struggled.  Even last year in Sask he was MIA for most of the season and then picked it up late.  I would pass on the guy and go for Taylor Reed instead.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on February 17, 2018, 11:00:58 PM
Not sure of all the love for Muamba other than his passport. He has not been the same player since he came back from the NFL as he has struggled.  Even last year in Sask he was MIA for most of the season and then picked it up late.  I would pass on the guy and go for Taylor Reed instead.

I agree I think he is a head case now. His NFL ST foray ruined his progress and I think he is a selfish player.

Final opinion.... PASS......


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Tehedra on February 18, 2018, 03:46:09 AM
Prefer to see him land in the east, maybe in Toronto or Montreal.  Preferably montreal as they could use the help; those teams need to be more competitive anyways and I just don't think we need the price tag.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blueraid on February 18, 2018, 01:53:46 PM
Not sure of all the love for Muamba other than his passport. He has not been the same player since he came back from the NFL as he has struggled.  Even last year in Sask he was MIA for most of the season and then picked it up late.  I would pass on the guy and go for Taylor Reed instead.


Taylor Reed was here for a cup of coffee a few years back and was cut....We didn't see anything in him then, why would we now....Sign the tour man and get it over with...He is better than Taylor ever will be and has the right passport...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on February 18, 2018, 02:41:42 PM
You're right, the last card to be played in this off season is to acquire a strong, proven MLB and since we lost westerman, we need to replace our former NAT MLB with a NAT. Walters is making a play for HM, it's just taking time to negotiate right now


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on February 18, 2018, 03:17:29 PM
I truly believe we will put in an honest effort in Muamba but based off the offseason thus far and history I don't see anyone outbidding Mtrl. and Henoc goes to the money


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on February 18, 2018, 03:52:18 PM
Things didn't end so good for him the last time he was in Montreal....let's hope its a case of once burnt, twice shy....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 18, 2018, 03:59:26 PM

Taylor Reed was here for a cup of coffee a few years back and was cut....We didn't see anything in him then, why would we now....Sign the tour man and get it over with...He is better than Taylor ever will be and has the right passport...


Really?  You think Muamba has done better since coming back than Reed?  Sure, Muamba in his MOC year, awesome (oh, wait, he wasn't MOC of the league, just the Bombers).  He's just not the same since...

Reed (or Woods) is considerably cheaper, and we don'r "need" the passport with the current ratio plans...

If Muamba is at a slight premium over Reed or Woods, sure, the passport is worth it.  If its a $50k difference, no way Jose...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blueraid on February 18, 2018, 04:57:51 PM
Really?  You think Muamba has done better since coming back than Reed?  Sure, Muamba in his MOC year, awesome (oh, wait, he wasn't MOC of the league, just the Bombers).  He's just not the same since...

Reed (or Woods) is considerably cheaper, and we don'r "need" the passport with the current ratio plans...

If Muamba is at a slight premium over Reed or Woods, sure, the passport is worth it.  If its a $50k difference, no way Jose...

O.K. I'll bite....REALLY....Reed is a fair guy up front....Henoc a really good one....We don't need a player who is marginally better than Hurl...We may have to pay a little more (I say a little more) to sign Muamba BUT we're putting together a Cup contender...maybe even a winner, so you go with the best that's available...I will agree on one thing...IF Muamba's ask is in the stratosphere ..then uh uh...we pass...Something is telling me his agent and he, are seeing us as a potential Cup finalist AND IF that's the case...the money will take care of itself


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: buckzumhoff on February 18, 2018, 05:04:32 PM
I wouldn't pay muamba what he wants. Saskatchewan thinks he's not worth it and they signed Hurl.  Put the money for the o-line or a better linebacker .  Muamba had improved but from how he played with us he couldn't stop the run and sat back deep. Not good on blitzes. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on February 18, 2018, 05:06:51 PM

Taylor Reed was here for a cup of coffee a few years back and was cut....We didn't see anything in him then, why would we now....Sign the tour man and get it over with...He is better than Taylor ever will be and has the right passport...


So you believe that Taylor Reed that was here 2 years ago is the same player now?  I take it you believe that Muamba is the same player he was before he went to the NFL.  Muamba is a head case and someone we should avoid, he has sucked everywhere he has played since coming back from the NFL. The ship has sailed with this guy.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on February 18, 2018, 05:11:09 PM
O.K. I'll bite....REALLY....Reed is a fair guy up front....Henoc a really good one....We don't need a player who is marginally better than Hurl...We may have to pay a little more (I say a little more) to sign Muamba BUT we're putting together a Cup contender...maybe even a winner, so you go with the best that's available...I will agree on one thing...IF Muamba's ask is in the stratosphere ..then uh uh...we pass...Something is telling me his agent and he, are seeing us as a potential Cup finalist AND IF that's the case...the money will take care of itself
I think that's what is playing out right now. If muamba s ask
Is reasonable, he's here, if it's not we re going to move onto someone else and that is clear with us letting hurl go to
the rough rides. He ll be nothing more than st there

Like I posted earlier, this is Walters last FA card to play and so far he's outplayed everyone in the league at this game and is the architect behind a VERY improved roster, and we were 12-6 last year!!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on February 18, 2018, 05:24:31 PM
Riders did sign him for a stupid salary but they released him because they have cap issues.. big ones and prob some more slashing yet...obviously they would have wanted to keep him but when he balked at the salary cut...well they had no choice


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 18, 2018, 05:48:31 PM
Riders did sign him for a stupid salary but they released him because they have cap issues.. big ones and prob some more slashing yet...obviously they would have wanted to keep him but when he balked at the salary cut...well they had no choice


You never cut a guy who is earning his salary... and you don't walk from a pay cut if you don't think that you are worth more. 

Pretty much says it all, if his agent isn't even talking to teams right now while Woods and Reed are still out there, he's crazy.  Sure, once Woods and Reed are signed, there will possibly be 2 or 3 teams with "no other options", but if one of those is Winnipeg, we do have other options already on the roster, and won't be in a bidding war.

Right now, Muamba has the opportunity to choose where he will play, and he can choose a cup contender (here).  Or he can wait and sign with MTL again...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 18, 2018, 06:10:18 PM
You never cut a guy who is earning his salary... and you don't walk from a pay cut if you don't think that you are worth more. 

Pretty much says it all, if his agent isn't even talking to teams right now while Woods and Reed are still out there, he's crazy.  Sure, once Woods and Reed are signed, there will possibly be 2 or 3 teams with "no other options", but if one of those is Winnipeg, we do have other options already on the roster, and won't be in a bidding war.

Right now, Muamba has the opportunity to choose where he will play, and he can choose a cup contender (here).  Or he can wait and sign with MTL again...

That's not close to true. It can be a combination of several factors. It's the reality of having to balance the SMS every season. Veterans are released as new younger, less expensive players need to have roster room created.

Kyries Herbert was reported to be making $110K in 2017. He earned that money easily. As an older player it was still time to see him with less playing time as a younger player took on more of a role.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 18, 2018, 06:46:34 PM
I think that's what is playing out right now. If muamba s ask
Is reasonable, he's here, if it's not we re going to move onto someone else and that is clear with us letting hurl go to
the rough rides. He ll be nothing more than st there

Like I posted earlier, this is Walters last FA card to play and so far he's outplayed everyone in the league at this game and is the architect behind a VERY improved roster, and we were 12-6 last year!!

I think Walter's window for signing Muamba has passed with the signing of Roh, if he didn't have the cap space to sign Henoc prior to Roh, it's going to be doubly difficult to do it now.  In one week it went from cutting the salary of one veteran to cutting the salary of two to accommodate him.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 18, 2018, 06:51:52 PM
I think Walter's window for signing Muamba has passed with the signing of Roh, if he didn't have the cap space to sign Henoc prior to Roh, it's going to be doubly difficult to do it now.  In one week it went from cutting the salary of one veteran to cutting the salary of two to accommodate him.

Possibly true but not necessarily. We can overspend a $100K on the SMS and take the fine penalty as a consequence. Lots of ways we could make or find room to accommodate a high salary.

I also doubt Roh was extremely expensive.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on February 18, 2018, 06:56:13 PM
I think Walter's window for signing Muamba has passed with the signing of Roh, if he didn't have the cap space to sign Henoc prior to Roh, it's going to be doubly difficult to do it now.  In one week it went from cutting the salary of one veteran to cutting the salary of two to accommodate him.
Walters shed Hurl's and Westermans salary, and acquired Roe's, by my math, he's waaay ahead on cap space and has played this out perfectly to land Muamba. If HM doesn't want to come here and win a cup, it won't be because of salary issues, and fine, we'll sign someone else and win the cup without him. He have upgraded our NAT depth so we have way more options this season than last.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 18, 2018, 07:09:20 PM
Walters shed Hurl's and Westermans salary, and acquired Roe's, by my math, he's waaay ahead on cap space and has played this out perfectly to land Muamba. If HM doesn't want to come here and win a cup, it won't be because of salary issues, and fine, we'll sign someone else and win the cup without him. He have upgraded our NAT depth so we have way more options this season than last.

Your math ignores everything Walters said in his press conference a few days ago.  He said he could sign Muamba but adjustments would have to be made. 

I think Roh would cost in the neighborhood of $100-$120k, he's put up solid numbers in his 3 seasons with the Lions registering 6-7 sacks in each, so I don't see him as a bargain signing.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on February 18, 2018, 08:26:31 PM
Walters shed Hurl's and Westermans salary, and acquired Roe's, by my math, he's waaay ahead on cap space and has played this out perfectly to land Muamba. If HM doesn't want to come here and win a cup, it won't be because of salary issues, and fine, we'll sign someone else and win the cup without him. He have upgraded our NAT depth so we have way more options this season than last.

Sharpen your pencil son, your math needs work.  We also gave raises to Randle, Nevis and Ekakitie.  Signing Fenner cost us more than Heath played for last year.  We also transferred some of those savings to offence by signing Bowman, Durant, Demski, and LaFrance, who were all more expensive than the guys they replaced.  hardrick and Bryant also got raises.

I agree that we don?t need Muamba to be a cup contender this year, which is good, cause I don?t think we have the cash.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 18, 2018, 09:27:11 PM
Sharpen your pencil son, your math needs work.  We also gave raises to Randle, Nevis and Ekakitie.  Signing Fenner cost us more than Heath played for last year.  We also transferred some of those savings to offence by signing Bowman, Durant, Demski, and LaFrance, who were all more expensive than the guys they replaced.  hardrick and Bryant also got raises.

I agree that we don?t need Muamba to be a cup contender this year, which is good, cause I don?t think we have the cash.

We gave increases to several players using money left from the 2017 SMS .


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 18, 2018, 09:40:25 PM
I'm sure there are lots of places where pay went up or down, and that there is space to adjust...  I'm sure if Muamba's agent is realistic, and takes into account probability of post season money (do agents get a cut of that?), then Walters will be able to make the deal.

If the ask is too high though, we will no doubt be fine...  even if we don't land Woods or Reed...  We have enough firepower on D that even mediocre play from an MLB will be just fine.

(Roh) Jeffcoat, Nevis, Poop (Ekakitie), Oko (Corney)

Wild,                 Santos-Knox,                 Leggett

    Gaitor                                        Randle

     Fenner                                    Clark

                              Loffler


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 18, 2018, 10:25:19 PM
Walters is doing the right thing, as he does have the upper hand in the deal and has as much said so in actions and his comments.

a) Winnipeg is totally comfortable moving forward with JSK, if need be, we're ok with that....

b) I have my ratio issue resolved, I don't have to sign another national unless I choose too...

c) As a team we've addressed our needs and spent the majority of avialable funds and moving forward money spent will be on wants and treated as such...

at least that is what he's telling everyone that isn't signed.... pretty nice place to be sitting actually... based upon comments made here during the season and leading up to free agency signing period, I didn't really know what to expect. But I'll say this, he seems to be a very intelligent and shrewd business man, one that I'd rather have working for me than against me...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 18, 2018, 10:39:59 PM
I'm sure there are lots of places where pay went up or down, and that there is space to adjust...  I'm sure if Muamba's agent is realistic, and takes into account probability of post season money (do agents get a cut of that?), then Walters will be able to make the deal.

If the ask is too high though, we will no doubt be fine...  even if we don't land Woods or Reed...  We have enough firepower on D that even mediocre play from an MLB will be just fine.


Walters signing Muamba not only depends on his demands but also on how much his competitors are willing to pay.  Potentially half the teams  could be interested in signing Henoc just for the ratio benefit he brings with him.  Argos, Als, RB's and even the Esks. might show interest.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: sweep the leg on February 18, 2018, 10:46:32 PM
Sharpen your pencil son, your math needs work.  We also gave raises to Randle, Nevis and Ekakitie. 

When/why did Ekakitie get a raise?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on February 18, 2018, 10:52:33 PM
Not signing Muamba is a statement.

The Bimbers are the most desperate team regarding a middle linebacker.
A ratio breaker falls into their lap, and they ar hemming and hawing.

Really over the cap? So who cares?  Ya win the cup, you lose the draft pick? So what? A guy who won't start anyway.

What's to figure out?  Cut whoever you have to!
We haven't won anyway...so who do you think is untouchable?.

Do it, sign Woods or Muamba.
Knox ain't the answer.
What are ya going to rely on McMannus' evaluation of talent?  We all know how that has worked out!

Walters...sign Henoc already!!!!!!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on February 18, 2018, 10:56:33 PM
Not signing Muamba is a statement.

The Bimbers are the most desperate team regarding a middle linebacker.
A ratio breaker falls into their lap, and they ar hemming and hawing.

Really over the cap? So who cares?  Ya win the cup, you lose the draft pick? So what? A guy who won't start anyway.

What's to figure out?  Cut whoever you have to!
We haven't won anyway...so who do you think is untouchable?.

Do it, sign Woods or Muamba.
Knox ain't the answer.
What are ya going to rely on McMannus' evaluation of talent?  We all know how that has worked out!

Walters...sign Henoc already!!!!!!

I agree get woods or Muamba asap......then we can plan the parade route south down pembina do a u-turn at the old pony corral/zellers mall and head back north up pembina to the stadium for a party !


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bustamente on February 18, 2018, 11:14:20 PM
Becoming apparent that if Muamba signs with the Bombers it will be on Walters terms, this is our offer take it or leave it and by the way don't wait to long.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 18, 2018, 11:28:10 PM
Are the pro-Henoc people forgetting that MLB is more than just how big or tough the player is?  It's at least 50% leadership, brains, direction, gelling... Will me me me Henoc gel with the rest of the D?  Will they take direction from him?  Will he even bother to direct?

For all of Hurl's faults, he gelled nicely, and was key on directing JSK/Moe (and probably Loffler) to the tackle, as MOS has said.

I think Woods and Reed would make far better "team players", and pose less of a risk.  And they might hang around longer than just one year.  Henoc only is a consideration if he comes cheap.  For peanuts, sure, take him and take the risk.  But if you can get Woods for less money, take woods.  And Reed.

We shall see.  But be careful what you wish for.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on February 18, 2018, 11:30:57 PM
Are the pro-Henoc people forgetting that MLB is more than just how big or tough the player is?  It's at least 50% leadership, brains, direction, gelling... Will me me me Henoc gel with the rest of the D?  Will they take direction from him?  Will he even bother to direct?

For all of Hurl's faults, he gelled nicely, and was key on directing JSK/Moe (and probably Loffler) to the tackle, as MOS has said.

I think Woods and Reed would make far better "team players", and pose less of a risk.  And they might hang around longer than just one year.  Henoc only is a consideration if he comes cheap.  For peanuts, sure, take him and take the risk.  But if you can get Woods for less money, take woods.  And Reed.

We shall see.  But be careful what you wish for.


K....lets get Woods....he seems to have a ton of character out there on the field...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 18, 2018, 11:32:31 PM
When/why did Ekakitie get a raise?
Pretty sure it was part of his first contract where the second year is worth bit more. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on February 19, 2018, 12:55:57 AM
When/why did Ekakitie get a raise?

His 3 year contract provides for increases in both 2018 and 2019.

http://3downnation.com/2017/05/16/first-overall-pick-2017-cfl-draft-gets-healthy-raise/


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 19, 2018, 02:58:50 PM
I'm sure there are lots of places where pay went up or down, and that there is space to adjust...  I'm sure if Muamba's agent is realistic, and takes into account probability of post season money (do agents get a cut of that?), then Walters will be able to make the deal.

If the ask is too high though, we will no doubt be fine...  even if we don't land Woods or Reed...  We have enough firepower on D that even mediocre play from an MLB will be just fine.

(Roh) Jeffcoat, Nevis, Poop (Ekakitie), Oko (Corney)

Wild,                 Santos-Knox,                 Leggett

    Gaitor                                        Randle

     Fenner                                    Clark

                              Loffler

Your DC is out to lunch on at least 3 positions.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 19, 2018, 03:03:45 PM
Are the pro-Henoc people forgetting that MLB is more than just how big or tough the player is?  It's at least 50% leadership, brains, direction, gelling... Will me me me Henoc gel with the rest of the D?  Will they take direction from him?  Will he even bother to direct?

For all of Hurl's faults, he gelled nicely, and was key on directing JSK/Moe (and probably Loffler) to the tackle, as MOS has said.

I think Woods and Reed would make far better "team players", and pose less of a risk.  And they might hang around longer than just one year.  Henoc only is a consideration if he comes cheap.  For peanuts, sure, take him and take the risk.  But if you can get Woods for less money, take woods.  And Reed.

We shall see. But be careful what you wish for.


This is completely false narrative. Henoc is very good in the dressing room and is a team player. I hate the way he negotiates too, but it's complete garbage to say he is not a team player or has a bad attitude once he's playing. He has a knob for an agent, that is all. That's the drawback of trying to sign Henoc. Any player or coach he's played with speaks glowingly about his character, effort, and positive impact on the dressing room.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Ducky on February 19, 2018, 03:20:08 PM
Your DC is out to lunch on at least 3 positions.

I would like to see your lineup in comparison please.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 19, 2018, 03:44:57 PM
I would like to see your lineup in comparison please.

Flip Fenner and Clarke positions.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Doublezero on February 19, 2018, 03:47:22 PM
I'm sure there are lots of places where pay went up or down, and that there is space to adjust...  I'm sure if Muamba's agent is realistic, and takes into account probability of post season money (do agents get a cut of that?), then Walters will be able to make the deal.

If the ask is too high though, we will no doubt be fine...  even if we don't land Woods or Reed...  We have enough firepower on D that even mediocre play from an MLB will be just fine.

(Roh) Jeffcoat, Nevis, Poop (Ekakitie), Oko (Corney)

Wild,                 Santos-Knox,                 Leggett

    Gaitor                                        Randle

     Fenner                                    Clark

                              Loffler

Is it possible Walters isn't serious about Muamba and just wants to bid up the price others will pay? Also, wonder if Chris Casher could make a dent at DE? Are Gaitor and Clark for sure going to start over Brandon Alexander and Brian Walker? I guess that is what training camp is for ... can't get here fast enough for me. 102 days to go .......


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 19, 2018, 03:52:40 PM
Is it possible Walters isn't serious about Muamba and just wants to bid up the price others will pay? Also, wonder if Chris Casher could make a dent at DE? Are Gaitor and Clark for sure going to start over Brandon Alexander and Brian Walker? I guess that is what training camp is for ... can't get here fast enough for me. 102 days to go .......

I'm guessing Casher could be the depth guy that ends up on the PR or 1 game IR if he looks really good.  Unless some SMS decisions causes us to release / trade Oko which was suggested as a possible adjustment to acquire Muamba.

Don't really think Walters is a guy to play games trying to get other teams to spend more due to Bomber interest.

I wouldn't write Alexander and Walker off just yet. For that matter CFL rookies brought to TC could be the next superstars and beat out everybody.

So yes, that's what TC is for and the competition will be tough hopefully.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on February 19, 2018, 03:54:31 PM
Is it possible Walters isn't serious about Muamba and just wants to bid up the price others will pay? Also, wonder if Chris Casher could make a dent at DE? Are Gaitor and Clark for sure going to start over Brandon Alexander and Brian Walker? I guess that is what training camp is for ... can't get here fast enough for me. 102 days to go .......
I don't think Walters or any GM for that matter, has got the time to play the ' bid up' game. I believe he's involved in serious negotiations, or wouldn't waste his time on it,


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on February 19, 2018, 03:55:31 PM
Sharpen your pencil son, your math needs work.  We also gave raises to Randle, Nevis and Ekakitie.  Signing Fenner cost us more than Heath played for last year.  We also transferred some of those savings to offence by signing Bowman, Durant, Demski, and LaFrance, who were all more expensive than the guys they replaced.  hardrick and Bryant also got raises.

I agree that we don?t need Muamba to be a cup contender this year, which is good, cause I don?t think we have the cash.
I m 68 years old... It's been a while since someone called me son!!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 19, 2018, 03:57:37 PM
Is it possible Walters isn't serious about Muamba and just wants to bid up the price others will pay? Also, wonder if Chris Casher could make a dent at DE? Are Gaitor and Clark for sure going to start over Brandon Alexander and Brian Walker? I guess that is what training camp is for ... can't get here fast enough for me. 102 days to go .......
I kind of expect Alexander to retain his job at HB but could see Walker replaced by Gaitor or Clark, It wouldn't surprise me much if both ended up as T.C. fodder as well.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on February 19, 2018, 04:32:18 PM
Is it possible Walters isn't serious about Muamba and just wants to bid up the price others will pay? Also, wonder if Chris Casher could make a dent at DE? Are Gaitor and Clark for sure going to start over Brandon Alexander and Brian Walker? I guess that is what training camp is for ... can't get here fast enough for me. 102 days to go .......

Good question.  IMHO...

1.  CFL GM's don't play the bid 'em up game, that is a fan fantasy. They make offers that they can afford to players they are interested in. 

2.  I think Walters has already ruled out Muamba, but he is talking to the agent and performing his due diligence largely so he can tell his fanbase he considered the option. 

3.  With the signing of Roh, I am thinking Casher is a PR guy, with a chance to get into the line up in case of injury. 

4.  I don't think we can assume Gaitor and Clark are going to get the jobs, I think those guys are in a wide open competition with Alexander and Walker. I would bet at least one of Walker or Alexander is on the roster for opening day. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 19, 2018, 04:39:36 PM
Walters could also be showing interest in Muamba to help in his negotiations with Reed/Woods, if they are in fact negotiating. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 19, 2018, 04:52:55 PM
I m 68 years old... It's been a while since someone called me son!!
LOL.....I?m 66....could I call you Bro? 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on February 19, 2018, 05:08:00 PM
I m 68 years old... It's been a while since someone called me son!!

One of many definitions from the Urban Dictionary:

Quote
son
the east coast equivalent of homie, mainly used in new york
i.e. - yo wat up son?

Get with it dad....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 19, 2018, 06:43:20 PM
LOL.....I?m 66....could I call you Bro? 

it's funny because generally you don't think about anyone's age, you just think everyone is in their late 20's or early 30's like yoursef....  oh, wait a second... I'm not in my 20's or 30's... I'm almost 55 lol.... well I still think 'young', lol...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: buckzumhoff on February 19, 2018, 06:55:01 PM
Id like to see Casher start or be in the lineup.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 19, 2018, 07:33:15 PM
Id like to see Casher start or be in the lineup.

That's pretty high praise. Let's see what he shows during TC and pre-season.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 19, 2018, 07:39:38 PM
Id like to see Casher start or be in the lineup.

Its great to have guys on ELC's on the roster or even starting.  Great for SMS.  Lets hope we see a couple new recruits step up...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 19, 2018, 07:42:51 PM
Id like to see Casher start or be in the lineup.
Why?  Do you have a scouting report on him? 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 19, 2018, 08:44:17 PM
is TC open to the public?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 19, 2018, 08:55:00 PM
is TC open to the public?
Yes.  I book work off the first week of TC every year to attend.  It's quite enjoyable. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 19, 2018, 08:57:20 PM
Yes.  I book work off the first week of TC every year to attend.  It's quite enjoyable. 

Cool! I'd like to see about maybe attending this years... I've got my price buster flight alerts going for Winnipeg, so, just never know... Headed to Vegas Friday to see their open tryouts, pretty excited about that....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on February 19, 2018, 09:07:48 PM
Why?  Do you have a scouting report on him? 

Very highly regarded coming out of high school, in the top 30 nationally for his position.  Had both injury and character/maturity issues at Florida State during his first 4 years, but then stayed healthy and had a good senior year after transferring to an NAIA school.

Assuming he has grown out of the stupid behaviour phase, he has all the physical tools, he just has to be able to stay healthy. 


https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2017/5/11/15615940/raiders-rookie-scouting-report-five-star-recruit-chris-casher-off-field-incidents-jameis-winston-fsu


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Ridermania on February 19, 2018, 09:09:49 PM
Bombers adding Muamba would be the right thing to do this season.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 19, 2018, 09:16:55 PM
Very highly regarded coming out of high school, in the top 30 nationally for his position.  Had both injury and character/maturity issues at Florida State during his first 4 years, but then stayed healthy and had a good senior year after transferring to an NAIA school.

Assuming he has grown out of the stupid behaviour phase, he has all the physical tools, he just has to be able to stay healthy. 


https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2017/5/11/15615940/raiders-rookie-scouting-report-five-star-recruit-chris-casher-off-field-incidents-jameis-winston-fsu
Looks like a good prospect but as soon as I read he was friends with Jameis Winston, that raised red flags for me.  Read this: http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18281435/jameis-winston-settles-lawsuit-2012-sexual-assault-accuser 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 19, 2018, 09:19:32 PM
Florida State AND Winston? geez... that doesn't bode well for him... but, given that he was able to get back on track after transfer... maybe a chance...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 19, 2018, 10:41:01 PM
This is completely false narrative. Henoc is very good in the dressing room and is a team player. I hate the way he negotiates too, but it's complete garbage to say he is not a team player or has a bad attitude once he's playing. He has a knob for an agent, that is all. That's the drawback of trying to sign Henoc. Any player or coach he's played with speaks glowingly about his character, effort, and positive impact on the dressing room.

Do they?  Is he?  I haven't heard much about it, though I have not been following him closely.

Strikes me as tough to be as good in the locker room as you say when you are changing teams (if not leagues) every single year.

And what role did Henoc have on injury-gate?  There's a chance (complete conjecture, of course) he's the one who directed them to go down.

Worth a shot if he's super cheap (like <$160k cheap), otherwise, grab one of the other guys.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on February 19, 2018, 11:24:24 PM
One of many definitions from the Urban Dictionary:

Get with it dad....
That's grand dad, 3 times over now!!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: buckzumhoff on February 20, 2018, 12:10:40 AM
That's pretty high praise. Let's see what he shows during TC and pre-season.

Too many times a player doesn't get a chance in a game . Id rather see what the player can do in a game , not training camp. Some players don't play to their level just in camp. Some coaches have said that. Put them in a game ans=d see what they can do. Training camp is drills. Casher has played for good colleges and fits the size for a good linebacker. But chances are Oshea doesn't let players get past PR or training camp and goes w=ith the older players he has been going to.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 20, 2018, 12:24:13 AM
Strikes me as tough to be as good in the locker room as you say when you are changing teams (if not leagues) every single year.

A player changing teams has absolutely nothing to do with him being a good teammate/locker room guy/glue guy.

And Muamba hasn't changed teams every single year, anyway.

And what role did Henoc have on injury-gate?  There's a chance (complete conjecture, of course) he's the one who directed them to go down.

None. Such a ridiculous notion on which to conjecture.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 20, 2018, 12:25:18 AM
Too many times a player doesn't get a chance in a game . Id rather see what the player can do in a game , not training camp. Some players don't play to their level just in camp. Some coaches have said that. Put them in a game ans=d see what they can do. Training camp is drills. Casher has played for good colleges and fits the size for a good linebacker. But chances are Oshea doesn't let players get past PR or training camp and goes w=ith the older players he has been going to.

Not a luxury teams can take to throw in a player that doesn't show more in TC than the player in front of him and hope he does better.

Unless games situation, injury allows that opportunity. Big lead or deficit and if a player makes the 44 man AR as a DI.

Teams don't bring in players that looked bad in college.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 12:37:44 AM
A player changing teams has absolutely nothing to do with him being a good teammate/locker room guy/glue guy.

And Muamba hasn't changed teams every single year, anyway.

None. Such a ridiculous notion on which to conjecture.


Being cut loose says one big thing,


You aren't what we paid for.


If a player performs to his salary level, if the team gets out of him what he convinced them he was worth, there is no way they would cut him, especially with a ratio busting passport. 

Whether he is a glue guy, or a locker room favourite, in those cases, you might make an exception for a below expectation performance.  On the other hand, if you re a bad teamamte, its a lot easier to cut someone loose...



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on February 20, 2018, 12:54:41 AM
SMS reality appears to be that guys who get the "huge" contract end up released before they realize the full earning amount.
While his agent does very well in getting him the "big" contract, these contracts work against players sometimes as well.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on February 20, 2018, 05:00:11 AM
Free agents are over paid.   Muamba was not exceptional, just good.
A guy like Woods amd Muamba under OSheas supervision, would make this defence better.

There is zero excuse not to bring in the players the team needs. We have the people to go to the Cup. Now they have to play, to their potential, and make plays.  Pretty much the same as seven of the other teams.

Clearly we were undermanned in the secondary and at linebacker.  Then injuries hit and the offence showed its lack of depth.

The team brought in a new scout, a new receiver, a new Quarterback, more,depth at slot and RB, and got some bets in the secondary.

All they need now is a MLB,  no projects, wannabees, back ups or DBS moved. To LB. they need a run stopper.

Anything less is an insult to the fans
I don't care about the SMS system. Who cares? So we lose a draft pick.
Winners make it happen, losers wonder what happened.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 20, 2018, 08:41:01 AM
Free agents are over paid.   Muamba was not exceptional, just good.
A guy like Woods amd Muamba under OSheas supervision, would make this defence better.

There is zero excuse not to bring in the players the team needs. We have the people to go to the Cup. Now they have to play, to their potential, and make plays.  Pretty much the same as seven of the other teams.

Clearly we were undermanned in the secondary and at linebacker.  Then injuries hit and the offence showed its lack of depth.

The team brought in a new scout, a new receiver, a new Quarterback, more,depth at slot and RB, and got some bets in the secondary.

All they need now is a MLB,  no projects, wannabees, back ups or DBS moved. To LB. they need a run stopper.

Anything less is an insult to the fans
I don't care about the SMS system. Who cares? So we lose a draft pick.
Winners make it happen, losers wonder what happened.
I tend to agree with you....if we are truly making a Cup run then we need that guy back there that make RBs wary....we need depth at LBer especially since we have Wild back there who is always injured.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on February 20, 2018, 10:18:24 AM
As Walter Cronkite used to say, " that's the way it is!"

I am awakening every day listening and waiting for that announcement that WPG has signed........then I go have. Breakfast! Lol!

C' mon man, sign a real MLB already!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 20, 2018, 12:15:30 PM
Being cut loose says one big thing,


You aren't what we paid for.


If a player performs to his salary level, if the team gets out of him what he convinced them he was worth, there is no way they would cut him, especially with a ratio busting passport. 

Whether he is a glue guy, or a locker room favourite, in those cases, you might make an exception for a below expectation performance.  On the other hand, if you re a bad teamamte, its a lot easier to cut someone loose...



Completely and categorically false. Teams cut loose very good players they would love to keep all the time to try and fix glaring weaknesses elsewhere. Ridiculous statement Aards.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 20, 2018, 12:17:21 PM
SMS reality appears to be that guys who get the "huge" contract end up released before they realize the full earning amount.
While his agent does very well in getting him the "big" contract, these contracts work against players sometimes as well.

Yep...especially when you have a GM who decides to make a big splash in FA despite the fact he had zero SMS to work with.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Horseman on February 20, 2018, 01:28:30 PM
If the Bombers had any intention of signing a MLB, they would have done so by now. What we have now is what we will be going with and if injury hits in the LB corps we could be in trouble.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 20, 2018, 02:35:26 PM
If the Bombers had any intention of signing a MLB, they would have done so by now. What we have now is what we will be going with and if injury hits in the LB corps we could be in trouble.

It's still kind of early to make that declaration. More than likely guys like Woods, and Reed will require some time to come to grips that their salary asks are too high. When that happens, teams will sign them. One might be us.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BlueInCgy on February 20, 2018, 02:55:16 PM
It's still kind of early to make that declaration. More than likely guys like Woods, and Reed will require some time to come to grips that their salary asks are too high. When that happens, teams will sign them. One might be us.

I suspect it's in a holding pattern for pretty much anyone still in the game for Woods, Reed, or Muamba.  Muamba's the most attractive of the bunch due to his passport, and likely the least salary friendly, once he lines up with whomever his next suitor is, Reed and Woods will likely fall into place in short order.  If Muamba hadn't been cut when he was, I'd imagine Reed and Woods would both be signed.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on February 20, 2018, 02:57:18 PM
If the Bombers had any intention of signing a MLB, they would have done so by now. What we have now is what we will be going with and if injury hits in the LB corps we could be in trouble.

How do you know the Bombers have no interest in signing a MLB?.  Each day that goes by without signing the price goes down for these remaining players.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 03:05:25 PM
I suspect it's in a holding pattern for pretty much anyone still in the game for Woods, Reed, or Muamba.  Muamba's the most attractive of the bunch due to his passport, and likely the least salary friendly, once he lines up with whomever his next suitor is, Reed and Woods will likely fall into place in short order.  If Muamba hadn't been cut when he was, I'd imagine Reed and Woods would both be signed.

At last report, Muamba wasn't taking offers...  so it is more likely that once Woods and Reed sign, the bidding was on the last remaining impact MLB starts, and he gets another cross country tour out if it...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BlueInCgy on February 20, 2018, 03:15:10 PM
At last report, Muamba wasn't taking offers...  so it is more likely that once Woods and Reed sign, the bidding was on the last remaining impact MLB starts, and he gets another cross country tour out if it...

Doubt it.  Whose still in the running for MLB?  Probably not Edm, Cal, BC, Sask, Ottawa, Ham.  That leaves Wpg, Mtl, Tor for sure and maybe one or two of the others.  Three likely buyers, three likely players.  If Muamba waits out Reed and Woods, he may not be able to negotiate with anyone.  If Reed and Woods wait out Muamba, they've still got some leverage.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 20, 2018, 03:23:31 PM
At last report, Muamba wasn't taking offers...  so it is more likely that once Woods and Reed sign, the bidding was on the last remaining impact MLB starts, and he gets another cross country tour out if it...

Muamba will be the first domino to fall. There will be multiple teams in on him, and they won't sign anyone until Muamba makes a decision. Whether you care to believe it or not Aards, Muamba would be a huge benefit to whoever is lucky enough to get him. I guarantee that any team who is looking for a MLB is either actively pursuing Muamba, or trying to figure out a way they can free up the money to get him.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 03:35:48 PM
Muamba will be the first domino to fall. There will be multiple teams in on him, and they won't sign anyone until Muamba makes a decision. Whether you care to believe it or not Aards, Muamba would be a huge benefit to whoever is lucky enough to get him. I guarantee that any team who is looking for a MLB is either actively pursuing Muamba, or trying to figure out a way they can free up the money to get him.

Do you have any reporting that he and his agent are currently negotiating with anyone?  There don't seem to be any reports out there that they are...

Doubt it.  Whose still in the running for MLB?  Probably not Edm, Cal, BC, Sask, Ottawa, Ham.  That leaves Wpg, Mtl, Tor for sure and maybe one or two of the others.  Three likely buyers, three likely players.  If Muamba waits out Reed and Woods, he may not be able to negotiate with anyone.  If Reed and Woods wait out Muamba, they've still got some leverage.

Muamba's agent's hubris may make him believe that Woods and Reed signing will make his position stronger.  He might be right.

BC could be interested, Sol E can be as good a WIL as MLB, and they may need ratio help.  SSK might be interested at a lower price, but they will more likely take one of the others.  So there could be up to 5 teams in the MLB hunt, leaving at least 2 after Woods/Reed sign.

Considering SSK, MTL and WPG are all teams spurned by Muamba in the past, all will have bridges to be mended, and will be harder signings.  If Tor and BC sign Reed and Woods, then Muamba is sitting there looking at 3 potential suitors that all have past issues with him. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Horseman on February 20, 2018, 03:38:32 PM
How do you know the Bombers have no interest in signing a MLB?.  Each day that goes by without signing the price goes down for these remaining players.

I have no insider information, but you are on a forum where people post their opinions, so this is my opinion.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on February 20, 2018, 03:45:48 PM
I hope the Bombers pass on this guy.  He will cost them plenty for so little return on the field.  Muamba is not the player he used to be,and never will be again.  Pass on him and sign Taylor Reed.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BlueInCgy on February 20, 2018, 03:48:49 PM
Do you have any reporting that he and his agent are currently negotiating with anyone?  There don't seem to be any reports out there that they are...

Muamba's agent's hubris may make him believe that Woods and Reed signing will make his position stronger.  He might be right.

BC could be interested, Sol E can be as good a WIL as MLB, and they may need ratio help.  SSK might be interested at a lower price, but they will more likely take one of the others.  So there could be up to 5 teams in the MLB hunt, leaving at least 2 after Woods/Reed sign.

Considering SSK, MTL and WPG are all teams spurned by Muamba in the past, all will have bridges to be mended, and will be harder signings.  If Tor and BC sign Reed and Woods, then Muamba is sitting there looking at 3 potential suitors that all have past issues with him. 

You're missing both my and GC's point.  Any team looking for an MLB at this point is unlikely to sign anyone else in advance of Muamba making a decision, since he has the most combined impact (ability + passport), so if everyone's waiting (and they have time to wait), Reed and Woods are was well.  They may have held out too long the first day, not thinking (with good reason) that Muamba would be released on Day 2.

Riders ain't signing anyone, they let Muamba and Dennis go because they broke the bank, and they've since signed Jake Harty and Travis Bond.  

Woods likely isn't going to Montreal unless there is absolutely no other option.  I also doubt he re-signs with Toronto, that would have likely happened Day 1 of FA if they were close.

Hebert signing in Ottawa actually improves the odds of the Bombers landing one of these 3, I could have seen Woods heading there.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on February 20, 2018, 03:54:40 PM


Considering SSK, MTL and WPG are all teams spurned by Muamba in the past, all will have bridges to be mended, and will be harder signings.  If Tor and BC sign Reed and Woods, then Muamba is sitting there looking at 3 potential suitors that all have past issues with him. 

Do you even think before you start typing?  This isn't a high school dance, they aren't suitors, they are business people trying to make a deal.  Muamba left Winnipeg to go to the NFL, and there are no hard feelings as an organization, only on the part of a few idiot fans. 

The people who let Muamba go in Montreal are no longer there.  They are under different management. 

Everyone understands that he is going to sign where he gets the best deal, and teams are only going to pay what they can afford for as long as they can afford it.  There is no  soap opera here, it's strictly a SMS calculation with corresponding cost-benefit analysis.  No "bridges", no "suitors", no drama....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 20, 2018, 04:03:18 PM
Being cut loose says one big thing,

You aren't what we paid for.

Actually, all it says is Jones overpaid and couldn't afford to keep him without negative SMS implications. In the case of his release from the Alouettes back in Feb. 2016, Popp granted it so Muamba could again pursue NFL opportunities. You know, the same as Walters did two years earlier.

Completely and categorically false. Teams cut loose very good players they would love to keep all the time to try and fix glaring weaknesses elsewhere. Ridiculous statement Aards.

What else is new.

Do you even think before you start typing?  This isn't a high school dance, they aren't suitors, they are business people trying to make a deal.  Muamba left Winnipeg to go to the NFL, and there are no hard feelings as an organization, only on the part of a few idiot fans. 

The people who let Muamba go in Montreal are no longer there.  They are under different management. 

Everyone understands that he is going to sign where he gets the best deal, and teams are only going to pay what they can afford for as long as they can afford it.  There is no  soap opera here, it's strictly a SMS calculation with corresponding cost-benefit analysis.  No "bridges", no "suitors", no drama....

Well said. Not just the bolded part but all of it.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 04:11:20 PM
You're missing both my and GC's point.  Any team looking for an MLB at this point is unlikely to sign anyone else in advance of Muamba making a decision, since he has the most combined impact (ability + passport), so if everyone's waiting (and they have time to wait), Reed and Woods are was well.  They may have held out too long the first day, not thinking (with good reason) that Muamba would be released on Day 2.

Riders ain't signing anyone, they let Muamba and Dennis go because they broke the bank, and they've since signed Jake Harty and Travis Bond.  

Woods likely isn't going to Montreal unless there is absolutely no other option.  I also doubt he re-signs with Toronto, that would have likely happened Day 1 of FA if they were close.

Hebert signing in Ottawa actually improves the odds of the Bombers landing one of these 3, I could have seen Woods heading there.

But Muamba isn't taking offers, he's waiting for Reed and Woods to sign.  So, if Woods and Reed are waiting for Muamba to sign, we have a Mexican Standoff.  

Do you even think before you start typing?  This isn't a high school dance, they aren't suitors, they are business people trying to make a deal.  Muamba left Winnipeg to go to the NFL, and there are no hard feelings as an organization, only on the part of a few idiot fans. 

The people who let Muamba go in Montreal are no longer there.  They are under different management. 

Everyone understands that he is going to sign where he gets the best deal, and teams are only going to pay what they can afford for as long as they can afford it.  There is no  soap opera here, it's strictly a SMS calculation with corresponding cost-benefit analysis.  No "bridges", no "suitors", no drama....

Yes they are business people, with fan bases to appease.  Muamba left Winnipeg to go to the NFL, sure, good for him.  Bighill did too.  And Sol E as well as many others.  That's not the issue.  Its the way he came back.  Bighill, Sol E and others did not even talk with other teams when they came back. Muamba's cross country tour did not even include a hat tip at YWG.  THAT is a burnt bridge, sir, which made fans of his "idiots".

That aside, as a business decision, WPG has a number in mind that he is worth, and I can guarantee you it is a lot less than his agent wants.  That number is based on how our current ratio, SMS and DC stand.  

Will it be what they end up taking?  Time will tell.  In the meantime, lets hope that Woods or Reed suddenly see WPG for what it is, and make it home.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: M.O.A.B. on February 20, 2018, 04:18:00 PM
@aards, walters mentioned that muamba and his agent are not taking offers at that time.
it was lesss than 24 hours he was released then.

who said he was waiting for reed or woods to sign? have you talked to him or his agent?
or it just you adding drama to this?



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 20, 2018, 04:18:51 PM
Muamba's cross country tour did not even include a hat tip at YWG.  THAT is a burnt bridge, sir, which made fans of his "idiots".

Maybe in your kool-aid addled mind it's a burned bridge. If Walters felt the way you did, he wouldn't have made it known last week he's interested in Muamba.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BlueInCgy on February 20, 2018, 04:27:44 PM
But Muamba isn't taking offers, he's waiting for Reed and Woods to sign.  So, if Woods and Reed are waiting for Muamba to sign, we have a Mexican Standoff.  

You didn't actually read what I wrote, did you?

It takes (at least) two signatures for any contract to come into force.  It isn't Reed or Woods (now) not signing a contract, it's the teams that will wait out the Muamba situation. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 04:54:36 PM
You didn't actually read what I wrote, did you?

It takes (at least) two signatures for any contract to come into force.  It isn't Reed or Woods (now) not signing a contract, it's the teams that will wait out the Muamba situation. 

But there is no resolution to the Muamba situation until Woods and Reed sign...  Catch 22


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 04:57:05 PM
Maybe in your kool-aid addled mind it's a burned bridge. If Walters felt the way you did, he wouldn't have made it known last week he's interested in Muamba.

Not saying that there isn't an interest in bringing him back, jut saying we won't be paying a premium for his homecoming.  Had he come directly back here, and built up his brand, he could have been the next Doug Brown.  Instead, I don't think anyone thinks of him in that way, most see him as a mercenary out for himself.  That can get you a contract on the field, but not too much off the field. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 20, 2018, 05:11:19 PM
Not saying that there isn't an interest in bringing him back, jut saying we won't be paying a premium for his homecoming.  Had he come directly back here, and built up his brand, he could have been the next Doug Brown.  Instead, I don't think anyone thinks of him in that way, most see him as a mercenary out for himself.  That can get you a contract on the field, but not too much off the field. 

A name on a contract and a well executed press conference and a football rabid fan-base will put whatever history you think he has in the rear view mirror. He signed a long term deal with Saskatchewan, THEY chose to spend the money elsewhere because they had a huge deficiency on their DL. How is Muamba the bad guy for being released? How was he the bad guy for being released by Montreal because they were desperate to find money for Vaughn Martin and thought he was going to be a CFL superstar.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 20, 2018, 05:14:32 PM
A name on a contract and a well executed press conference and a football rabid fan-base will put whatever history you think he has in the rear view mirror. He signed a long term deal with Saskatchewan, THEY chose to spend the money elsewhere because they had a huge deficiency on their DL. How is Muamba the bad guy for being released? How was he the bad guy for being released by Montreal because they were desperate to find money for Vaughn Martin and thought he was going to be a CFL superstar.

Ardy just said he doesn't whiffle waffle on his opinions and doesn't state them as facts. Sounds to me that he does. But hey, that's just my opinion and no whiffle waffle from me on that opinion.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BlueInCgy on February 20, 2018, 05:16:22 PM
But there is no resolution to the Muamba situation until Woods and Reed sign...  Catch 22

You clearly have no idea whatsoever how contract negotiations, in football or otherwise, work.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 20, 2018, 05:16:58 PM
Ardy just said he doesn't whiffle waffle on his opinions and doesn't state them as facts. Sounds to me that he does. But hey, that's just my opinion and no whiffle waffle from me on that opinion.

Doesn't state them as facts. ??? He needs to proof read his posts then.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 05:19:40 PM
You clearly have no idea whatsoever how contract negotiations, in football or otherwise, work.

IIRC, Walters said they were interested in Muamba, but his agent isn't taking offers.  So, how can his situation be resolved?

If Muamba's agent is waiting for Reed and Woods to sign, how can teams be waiting for Muamba to sign before they decide on Reed/Woods?

Do you see the disconnect there?  Chicken/egg?  Mexican standoff?  Catch 22?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 20, 2018, 05:21:16 PM
EVERY SINGLE thread I go into today, it's everyone ******** all over Aards  :o


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 20, 2018, 05:23:06 PM
EVERY SINGLE thread I go into today, it's everyone ***** all over Aards  :o

Well it's a slow day. Less than 50 free agents left and pickins are slim.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 05:24:11 PM
EVERY SINGLE thread I go into today, it's everyone ***** all over Aards  :o

Even when it was Muddy saying stuff... ;)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: New_Earth_Mud on February 20, 2018, 05:27:03 PM
Even when it was Muddy saying stuff... ;)


LOL... i never crapped on you today dude.   ???


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on February 20, 2018, 05:27:39 PM
IIRC, Walters said they were interested in Muamba, but his agent isn't taking offers.  So, how can his situation be resolved?

If Muamba's agent is waiting for Reed and Woods to sign, how can teams be waiting for Muamba to sign before they decide on Reed/Woods?

Do you see the disconnect there?  Chicken/egg?  Mexican standoff?  Catch 22?

You sure have a way of inventing convoluted situations that aren't based on fact and then arguing about it passionately. Do you see the disconnect there?  Chicken/egg?  Mexican standoff?  Catch 22?  


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 20, 2018, 05:29:14 PM
EVERY SINGLE thread I go into today, it's everyone ******** all over Aards  :o

I thought we were supposed to every day, we're not?  lol, sorry aards, couldn't pass it up...  ;D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BlueInCgy on February 20, 2018, 05:39:57 PM
IIRC, Walters said they were interested in Muamba, but his agent isn't taking offers.  So, how can his situation be resolved?

If Muamba's agent is waiting for Reed and Woods to sign, how can teams be waiting for Muamba to sign before they decide on Reed/Woods?

Do you see the disconnect there?  Chicken/egg?  Mexican standoff?  Catch 22?

Muamba's agent isn't waiting for Reed and Woods to sign.  You don't deliberately dilute the pool of offers thinking you are coming out ahead.  Free market philosophy indicates that the highest price is paid when the highest demand is present (and no, one team and one available player does not constitute highest demand, Henoc can very easily end up without a contract in that scenario).  Therefore, if there are four teams (let's say), who are currently in the market for a MLB, and one of those MLBs has an attribute the other two don't, the likelihood that the overall compensation package will be higher is significantly greater than if there are two teams left, because you have three options where you can tell someone "No" or "Try Again", and still have a viable highest option.  

You have read the whole "Not taking offers right now" thing all wrong.  Henoc's agent is building tension right now, because he knows his Client has a combination that the other two do not, and he's letting as many contenders as possible figure out what they would have to do to readjust to make the best offer possible.  That's why no one has signed Woods or Reed yet, not the other way around.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 05:45:59 PM

LOL... i never crapped on you today dude.   ???

No, you said something and I got crapped on for it ;)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In Edmonton on February 20, 2018, 05:50:58 PM
Henoc is the biggest fish, but he might not be the first to get caught. There may be a team that is in on Henoc who gets told that they will not be successful. That team could then move on to Woods or Reed before Henoc actually signs somewhere. Make no mistake, his passport is driving this process and his status is keeping the other MLB suitors at bay for now.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 05:52:38 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/henoc-muamba-bombers-1.4537892

"Walters said offers aren't even being taken yet by Muamba and his agent."

Building tension?  How's that going?

If teams are waiting for him to sign, and he's busy "building tension"...  

Catch 22...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: New_Earth_Mud on February 20, 2018, 05:53:10 PM
No, you said something and I got crapped on for it ;)


Oh.....  i seen that now.  sry dude.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BlueInCgy on February 20, 2018, 05:55:51 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/henoc-muamba-bombers-1.4537892

"Walters said offers aren't even being taken yet by Muamba and his agent."

Building tension?  How's that going?

If teams are waiting for him to sign, and he's busy "building tension"...  

Catch 22...

Thanks for proving you absolutely don't get it whatsoever.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 20, 2018, 06:05:16 PM
The waiting game is getting somewhat tedious and still we have 3 unsigned bonafide MLBers?  Seems odd albeit to land any one of them is going to cause teams to reshuffle their rosters to make room.  It seems now like a game of chicken.....and Muamba is the only Canadian in that trio.....my question is will he make us a better team?  The Riders were willing to cut him loose likely in order to sign Bond to help protect their new and somewhat fragile QB which I can understand being a priority for them.   As athletic as Muamba is and was as a Bomber, I?m not certain his play has improved enough to be worthy of 200K +

Thoughts?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: fuzzy on February 20, 2018, 06:13:08 PM
Sportsnet is reporting Jerrell Freeman released by the Bears.  Wonder if Sask has cap space for the add.?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on February 20, 2018, 06:15:47 PM
Sportsnet is reporting Jerrell Freeman released by the Bears.  Wonder if Sask has cap space for the add.?

Chris Jones can just cut Travis Bond and Charleston Hughes to make room.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on February 20, 2018, 06:16:45 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/henoc-muamba-bombers-1.4537892

"Walters said offers aren't even being taken yet by Muamba and his agent."

Building tension?  How's that going?

If teams are waiting for him to sign, and he's busy "building tension"...  

Catch 22...

If true what a doosh him and his agent are. No thanks, PASS.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 20, 2018, 06:34:06 PM
If true what a doosh him and his agent are. No thanks, PASS.
I?m kind of leaning that way myself.....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Nic16 on February 20, 2018, 06:43:14 PM
Sportsnet is reporting Jerrell Freeman released by the Bears.  Wonder if Sask has cap space for the add.?

At 32, and recently suffering from memory loss issues I think Freeman's career may have come to an abrupt end.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 20, 2018, 07:00:00 PM
Redblacks GM Desjardins: ?There was an offer? for Tank Reed

Ottawa general manager Marcel Desjardins feels it?s not highly likely linebacker Taylor ?Tank? Reed is back in the nation?s capital.

?There was an offer for Tank, it was out there for a while, they felt they could find something better,? Desjardins said on TSN 1200 in Ottawa. ?I like Tank I think he?s a good football player we just felt that he had a value that we were comfortable with and we didn?t agree on what that number was.?

Reed made a career-high 94 tackles while anchoring the Redblacks defence in 2017. Over five CFL seasons, the 26-year-old has made 315 tackles, 17 sacks, five forced fumbles and two interceptions.

Reed is the top American linebacker left on 3DownNation?s rankings of remaining free agents.

http://3downnation.com/2018/02/20/redblacks-gm-desjardins-there-was-an-offer-for-tank-reed/


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 20, 2018, 07:01:05 PM
Redblacks GM Desjardins: ?There was an offer? for Tank Reed
Posted on February 20, 2018 by 3Down Staff // 3 Comments
Ottawa general manager Marcel Desjardins feels it?s not highly likely linebacker Taylor ?Tank? Reed is back in the nation?s capital.

?There was an offer for Tank, it was out there for a while, they felt they could find something better,? Desjardins said on TSN 1200 in Ottawa. ?I like Tank I think he?s a good football player we just felt that he had a value that we were comfortable with and we didn?t agree on what that number was.?

Reed made a career-high 94 tackles while anchoring the Redblacks defence in 2017. Over five CFL seasons, the 26-year-old has made 315 tackles, 17 sacks, five forced fumbles and two interceptions.

Reed is the top American linebacker left on 3DownNation?s rankings of remaining free agents.

Desjardins trying to take teams out of play for Muamba.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 20, 2018, 07:03:39 PM
If true what a doosh him and his agent are. No thanks, PASS.

This article was published less than 24 hours after his release. I don't think it's a safe assumption to say he's still not taking offers. His release likely caught him by surprise and he wanted a day or two to process the whole thing. What a cad. ::)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 20, 2018, 07:06:53 PM
The waiting game is getting somewhat tedious and still we have 3 unsigned bonafide MLBers?  Seems odd albeit to land any one of them is going to cause teams to reshuffle their rosters to make room.  It seems now like a game of chicken.....and Muamba is the only Canadian in that trio.....my question is will he make us a better team?  The Riders were willing to cut him loose likely in order to sign Bond to help protect their new and somewhat fragile QB which I can understand being a priority for them.   As athletic as Muamba is and was as a Bomber, I?m not certain his play has improved enough to be worthy of 200K +

Thoughts?

My primary reason for wanting to acquire Muamba is the passport. We he makes us better? Not sure. But I don't think he would make us worse. I think it gives so many options ratio wise that we don't have to compromise at any position during the year in the event of an injury, as well as additional depth at the linebacker position. Doing so will allow the Bombers to make a serious run for a Grey Cup as I feel that we honestly have a better overall team than we did last year. Now we've addressed some serious needs and added depth, all that's left is trying to be in an advantageous position ratio wise and we'll be pretty hard to beat...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 20, 2018, 07:08:14 PM
My primary reason for wanting to acquire Muamba is the passport. We he makes us better? Not sure. But I don't think he would make us worse. I think it gives so many options ratio wise that we don't have to compromise at any position during the year in the event of an injury, as well as additional depth at the linebacker position. Doing so will allow the Bombers to make a serious run for a Grey Cup as I feel that we honestly have a better overall team than we did last year. Now we've addressed some serious needs and added depth, all that's left is trying to be in an advantageous position ratio wise and we'll be pretty hard to beat...

Henoc definitely improves us. He showed up last year with NFL weight on, but by seasons end he was noticeably thinner, faster and far more effective.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 20, 2018, 07:09:14 PM
I?m kind of leaning that way myself.....

#fakenews


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: canadaguy2112 on February 20, 2018, 07:10:18 PM
Hurl would never have been a starter on any team last year.  I don't think we can go down.  


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bustamente on February 20, 2018, 07:13:38 PM
Wasn't Freeman suspended 10 games last year


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 07:33:09 PM
This article was published less than 24 hours after his release. I don't think it's a safe assumption to say he's still not taking offers. His release likely caught him by surprise and he wanted a day or two to process the whole thing. What a cad. ::)

Have there been any reports of negotiations with any teams yet?  I haven't heard about any...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 20, 2018, 07:34:04 PM
Have there been any reports of negotiations with any teams yet?  I haven't heard about any...

Why would you? Are you his agent? Teams are going to play this close to their vest. The last thing any GM in this league wants is for negotiations to enter the court of public opinion. Nobody likely hears anything until a deal is imminent.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 20, 2018, 07:52:05 PM
But there is no resolution to the Muamba situation until Woods and Reed sign...  Catch 22

Well, Woods just re-signed in Toronto. So, what now, Aardsy? :D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on February 20, 2018, 08:08:17 PM
Well, Woods just re-signed in Toronto. So, what now, Aardsy? :D

Lol *facepalm*


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 08:13:25 PM
Well, Woods just re-signed in Toronto. So, what now, Aardsy? :D

Funny, I thought that other teams were waiting for Muamba to sign first...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Darwinismyhomeboy on February 20, 2018, 08:17:27 PM
Why would you? Are you his agent? Teams are going to play this close to their vest. The last thing any GM in this league wants is for negotiations to enter the court of public opinion. Nobody likely hears anything until a deal is imminent.

There are often 'rumours' of chatter.  Or his famous visit to various cities.  So it isn't always up to the GM if there are whispers in the wind.

And when you are changing your name to the more accurate (please please please) 18?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: wookie on February 20, 2018, 08:39:36 PM
now that woods and reed have been signed by tor
are the bombers the #1 landing spot for Muamba now


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bluengold204 on February 20, 2018, 08:40:31 PM
now that woods and reed have been signed by tor
are the bombers the #1 landing spot for Muamba now

Montreal


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Darwinismyhomeboy on February 20, 2018, 08:42:11 PM
now that woods and reed have been signed by tor
are the bombers the #1 landing spot for Muamba now

They signed Woods AND Reed?  Ouch.

I still think any CFL team would sign a Canadian MLB if they get the chance.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 20, 2018, 08:45:23 PM
now that woods and reed have been signed by tor
are the bombers the #1 landing spot for Muamba now

The acquired both and we acquired neither!!! Ok. Well maybe Santos Knox is going to have a brilliant 2018 season.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Darwinismyhomeboy on February 20, 2018, 08:48:11 PM
The acquired both and we acquired neither!!! Ok. Well maybe Santos Knox is going to have a brilliant 2018 season.

I guess we spent all our money on the offense?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 20, 2018, 08:55:10 PM
I guess we spent all our money on the offense?

Not if we're still interested in Muamba. In theory we have money to be spent. I wouldn't be unhappy if don't sign Muamba and end up extendihg Loffler, Goossen or Chungh for example.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 20, 2018, 09:22:36 PM
I think we are set at starter with Wild and WIL and JSK at MLB.  What I would like is a depth guy with CFL experience who can play both WIL and MLB.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: kkc60 on February 20, 2018, 09:26:45 PM
I think we are set at starter with Wild and WIL and JSK at MLB.  What I would like is a depth guy with CFL experience who can play both WIL and MLB.
This. I think JSK can play MLB. But what if he isn't good? Are we gonna do with him what we did with Bass and plug him at MLB still? I think experience isn't the worst thing in the world to add. Worst case scenario we cut Wild or the experienced guy because others stepped up (or maybe that's best case, I dunno)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 20, 2018, 09:29:55 PM
I think we are set at starter with Wild and WIL and JSK at MLB.  What I would like is a depth guy with CFL experience who can play both WIL and MLB.
my concern is Wilds durability or lack thereof....we aren?t very deep as far as LBs are concerned.   Well until we hear officially, Muamba is still available.   Maybe he was waiting for Reed and Woods to sign?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 20, 2018, 09:33:37 PM
my concern is Wilds durability or lack thereof....we aren?t very deep as far as LBs are concerned.   Well until we hear officially, Muamba is still available.   Maybe he was waiting for Reed and Woods to sign?

I see a couple options, depending on who we bring in:

1. Wild starts at WIL, JSK starts at MLB.  Depth guy to backup both.
2. JSK starts at WIL, Muamba/stud at MLB, and Wild as depth to backup both.

Option 2 is the ideal in my opinion because I would prefer not relying on Wild as a starter because of his injury history. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 09:34:00 PM
I think we are set at starter with Wild and WIL and JSK at MLB.  What I would like is a depth guy with CFL experience who can play both WIL and MLB.

How about we sign Thomas Miles... oh wait...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 20, 2018, 09:45:05 PM
How about we sign Thomas Miles... oh wait...

He's never going to start at LB. He's purely an ST player. We'll probably continue having a LB as a DI.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 20, 2018, 09:46:45 PM
How about we sign Thomas Miles... oh wait...
Ya I guess I wasn't clear.  A depth guy with CFL experience who can legitimately start if needed...we will need to rely on this guy with Wild's injury history.  I don't put Miles in that category and I don't want to rely on Miles for a long stretch of time as a starter. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Tiger on February 20, 2018, 09:56:42 PM
I see a couple options, depending on who we bring in:

1. Wild starts at WIL, JSK starts at MLB.  Depth guy to backup both.
2. JSK starts at WIL, Muamba/stud at MLB, and Wild as depth to backup both.

Option 2 is the ideal in my opinion because I would prefer not relying on Wild as a starter because of his injury history. 

3. Look south for a quick learning MLB


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 20, 2018, 09:59:18 PM
3. Look south for a quick learning MLB

Because the WFC hasn't tried that the last few seasons... :-\


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 20, 2018, 09:59:42 PM
3. Look south for a quick learning MLB
That?s the current situation with Wilson and Jones. Not ideal in my opinion.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 20, 2018, 10:04:30 PM
That?s the current situation with Wilson and Jones. Not ideal in my opinion.

Agreed. A proven starter at such a crucial position is a must, IMO. And now there's only one left on the market.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 20, 2018, 10:06:30 PM
Agreed. A proven starter at such a crucial position is a must, IMO. And now there's only one left on the market.
What about Greg Jones?  He?d be a lower cost value option.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 20, 2018, 10:10:20 PM
What about Greg Jones?  He?d be a lower cost value option.

I mentioned him in a thread earlier this week. He didn't get much game time in 2017. He did put up some good stats earlier in his career. So he could be worth considering.

The thing is we don't know what anyone is asking for in salary or up front money. If there is no signing bonus it's less of a risk.

We know Muamba will want up front money. Not a huge concern but the total salary demand might be.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: kkc60 on February 20, 2018, 10:50:43 PM
How about we sign Thomas Miles... oh wait...
Thats a nice risk to take


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 11:04:02 PM
Ya I guess I wasn't clear.  A depth guy with CFL experience who can legitimately start if needed...we will need to rely on this guy with Wild's injury history.  I don't put Miles in that category and I don't want to rely on Miles for a long stretch of time as a starter. 

Because so many teams have 2 starting calibre MLB's on their teams...  MIles has started a number of CFL games and acquitted himself well.  He is a more than adequate backup with the right passport and is a demon on teams.  If you want more than that, I don't think anything can please you short of signing Woods and Reed and letting them fight it out for the starting job at MLB...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 20, 2018, 11:07:43 PM
Because so many teams have 2 starting calibre MLB's on their teams...  MIles has started a number of CFL games and acquitted himself well.  He is a more than adequate backup with the right passport and is a demon on teams.  If you want more than that, I don't think anything can please you short of signing Woods and Reed and letting them fight it out for the starting job at MLB...

The goal is for Wild to be a DI and backup at WIL and MLB and play STs. Take that however you like  ::)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: kkc60 on February 20, 2018, 11:11:01 PM
Because so many teams have 2 starting calibre MLB's on their teams...  MIles has started a number of CFL games and acquitted himself well.  He is a more than adequate backup with the right passport and is a demon on teams.  If you want more than that, I don't think anything can please you short of signing Woods and Reed and letting them fight it out for the starting job at MLB...

I love how you've spun it from an experienced guy to a starter. Ideally, yeah we would have 2 starting calibre MLBs. But thats pretty tough unless a scouting department can identify one. Miles started one span of 7 games. If Wild gets hurt or JSK isn't a MLB, we are screwed unless one of our guys like Wilson is good. Miles is a nice guy to rotate in, sure. But he isn't a starter, not even for a game.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 20, 2018, 11:21:54 PM
I love how you've spun it from an experienced guy to a starter. Ideally, yeah we would have 2 starting calibre MLBs. But thats pretty tough unless a scouting department can identify one. Miles started one span of 7 games. If Wild gets hurt or JSK isn't a MLB, we are screwed unless one of our guys like Wilson is good. Miles is a nice guy to rotate in, sure. But he isn't a starter, not even for a game.

OK, define for me the difference between "experienced guy" and "starter"?  Because the way I see it, we have experienced guys on the team...

I'm sure Miles would disagree, and so would MOS/Walters.  And of course, you are planning on your new recruits challenging for spots.  That's how you grow a team, by making solid experienced guys redundant.  Look at the number of free agents we moved on from this year and last that have caught on with other teams.  Most were not stolen away.  Most were replaced by recruited players.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: kkc60 on February 20, 2018, 11:55:40 PM
OK, define for me the difference between "experienced guy" and "starter"?  Because the way I see it, we have experienced guys on the team...

I'm sure Miles would disagree, and so would MOS/Walters.  And of course, you are planning on your new recruits challenging for spots.  That's how you grow a team, by making solid experienced guys redundant.  Look at the number of free agents we moved on from this year and last that have caught on with other teams.  Most were not stolen away.  Most were replaced by recruited players.
Of course Miles would disagree, and of course Osh and Walters would too. Unlike some, I don't just share an opinion with the team. Most of our guys who left via FA were replaced with recruits? Uh, yeah, I guess. But that's the way it's supposed to be. Difference: experienced guy can have starting experience (Hurl, Jones). A starter is a guy who is a every game starting calibre (Loffler, Randle)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 21, 2018, 12:10:59 AM
MLB is a key position on defense. Having a POSSIBLE adequate back up is NOT an adequate plan.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: New_Earth_Mud on February 21, 2018, 12:56:03 AM
OK, define for me the difference between "experienced guy" and "starter"?  Because the way I see it, we have experienced guys on the team...

I'm sure Miles would disagree, and so would MOS/Walters.  And of course, you are planning on your new recruits challenging for spots.  That's how you grow a team, by making solid experienced guys redundant.  Look at the number of free agents we moved on from this year and last that have caught on with other teams.  Most were not stolen away.  Most were replaced by recruited players.



When contracts are only a year or 2 its hard to do what you saying.

Without a solid MLB we become really weak at D imo.

This should be the time we go all out and figure a way to get Mumaba and get The Bombers a Cup.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 21, 2018, 05:06:26 AM
Of course Miles would disagree, and of course Osh and Walters would too. Unlike some, I don't just share an opinion with the team. Most of our guys who left via FA were replaced with recruits? Uh, yeah, I guess. But that's the way it's supposed to be. Difference: experienced guy can have starting experience (Hurl, Jones). A starter is a guy who is a every game starting calibre (Loffler, Randle)

Doesn't Miles fit your description of an experienced guy?   You just used Jones as an example of an experienced guy, how many starts does he have?  He has 18 tackles in 72 games he has dressed for.  Miles has at least 7 starts, and 63 tackles in 58 dressed games. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 21, 2018, 07:47:17 AM
OK, how did TOR a) afford both Reed and Woods, and b) pull it off?  Didn't our guys send out feelers to Reed/Woods to show interest and whisper some dollar amounts?  Were we just sitting there while both got snapped up?  I still think Reed was the best fit of the 3, and probably the cheapest.  Not happy at these turn of events.

Man, how are Harris/LaFrance/Flanders going to run up the gut past those two monsters?  When we play TOR we're going to have to gameplan like crazy around that.  Keep everything outside and/or rely on passes behind the LBs.  Ouch.

I'm starting to think perhaps we were never in the market for MLB and this was all wishful thinking by us forum fans.  I think the O NAT moves mean we were never serious about Henoc.  In any event, Henoc can now ask for whatever he wants to.  Why not $1M?  2-3 teams in desperate need and no other MLB left.

Even if BB aren't just paying lipservice, there's no way we afford Henoc now.  I'll be shocked if we do.  It's ok, I'm fine with the JSK/Wild/Miles/Briggs gamble.  The only question there is can those guys up the talent level, gel in their shaken-up spots, and stay uninjured.

Our O will never be off the field anyhow, so the LB corps is really a moot point.




 ;D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 21, 2018, 12:20:20 PM
OK, how did TOR a) afford both Reed and Woods, and b) pull it off?  Didn't our guys send out feelers to Reed/Woods to show interest and whisper some dollar amounts?  Were we just sitting there while both got snapped up?  I still think Reed was the best fit of the 3, and probably the cheapest.  Not happy at these turn of events.

Man, how are Harris/LaFrance/Flanders going to run up the gut past those two monsters?  When we play TOR we're going to have to gameplan like crazy around that.  Keep everything outside and/or rely on passes behind the LBs.  Ouch.

I'm starting to think perhaps we were never in the market for MLB and this was all wishful thinking by us forum fans.  I think the O NAT moves mean we were never serious about Henoc.  In any event, Henoc can now ask for whatever he wants to.  Why not $1M?  2-3 teams in desperate need and no other MLB left.

Even if BB aren't just paying lipservice, there's no way we afford Henoc now.  I'll be shocked if we do.  It's ok, I'm fine with the JSK/Wild/Miles/Briggs gamble.  The only question there is can those guys up the talent level, gel in their shaken-up spots, and stay uninjured.

Our O will never be off the field anyhow, so the LB corps is really a moot point.




 ;D

It seems pretty obvious we had no interest in Woods, or Reed...probably due to their IMP status and our interest in HM. My thoughts are that Walters will make his best pitch to bring in Muamba for ratio purposes, or we will go with JSK or new recruit.

Personally, I want Muamba because not only is he a top tier MLB, he would allow us ratio flex that we desperately need. However, if MTL goes bonkers and signs him to huge money so be it. I don't see Ottawa as much of a player for his services.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: kkc60 on February 21, 2018, 12:20:36 PM
Doesn't Miles fit your description of an experienced guy?   You just used Jones as an example of an experienced guy, how many starts does he have?  He has 18 tackles in 72 games he has dressed for.  Miles has at least 7 starts, and 63 tackles in 58 dressed games. 
Starting experience means a guy has started, not necessarily well. A starter means they are a starter, and perform at a starters level


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 21, 2018, 12:23:44 PM
Doesn't Miles fit your description of an experienced guy?   You just used Jones as an example of an experienced guy, how many starts does he have?  He has 18 tackles in 72 games he has dressed for.  Miles has at least 7 starts, and 63 tackles in 58 dressed games. 

Which Jones are you talking about (I thought he was talking about Greg Jones)? If it's Greg Jones your numbers are out to lunch.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 21, 2018, 02:37:25 PM
It seems pretty obvious we had no interest in Woods, or Reed...probably due to their IMP status and our interest in HM. My thoughts are that Walters will make his best pitch to bring in Muamba for ratio purposes, or we will go with JSK or new recruit.

Personally, I want Muamba because not only is he a top tier MLB, he would allow us ratio flex that we desperately need. However, if MTL goes bonkers and signs him to huge money so be it. I don't see Ottawa as much of a player for his services.

I'm okay with the combo of JSK and Wild but I'm not so confident a dominant D has been created yet.  Passing on all available LB's in F.A. is pretty bad optics and has the potential to open the Bombers up to a whirlwind of criticism later on in the season if this D does not perform up to expectations.  Lucky they kept Richie Hall around, they may need him yet.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 21, 2018, 02:40:47 PM
I'm okay with the combo of JSK and Wild but I'm not so confident a dominant D has been created yet.  Passing on all available LB's in F.A. is pretty bad optics and has the potential to open the Bombers up to a whirlwind of criticism later on in the season if this D does not perform up to expectations.  Lucky they kept Richie Hall around, they may need him yet.

FA is not over til it's over. We know from numerous reports that he is trying to get Muamba. That may have been the end game all along. Don't panic yet.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 21, 2018, 03:35:48 PM
FA is not over til it's over. We know from numerous reports that he is trying to get Muamba. That may have been the end game all along. Don't panic yet.

Panic will happen when we trade with Regina to get Hurl back :(


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 21, 2018, 03:48:22 PM
Panic will happen when we trade with Regina to get Hurl back :(


Ok man....that's not even funny.  :P


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue72 on February 21, 2018, 04:11:05 PM
I am sure surprised that with a HC that was a monster in the MLB spot that we are so weak at LB never mind MLB. We have one of the weaker LB groups in the CFL and it showed at the end of last year when Leggett went down. Really nothing has been done to improve on it since last year except getting rid of Hurl. Leggett was real good before he went down but will he be ok this year after his injury or will he even be a LB this year with Fenner coming in? And on the opposite side of the LB line we have Wild in for now, will he make it through this year while playing Wil, ST and backup MLB and backup long snapper?
It seems that they are bringing in a lot of receivers this year and also DB's but forgetting our weak lb group. MOS and Walters said that they are happy with the guys that they have at LB spot but is it just hear say or maybe they have an eye on a couple players but don't want to show there hand.
MLB is a very important spot as they have to call the play for the D so do you think JSK is ready for it and how about his backups? JSK played real good at the end of last year but is he ready to take the next step and move to the captains spot (MLB), Singleton played well in his first year but he was a MLB.
I guess time will tell as TC is still a little time away, with all the receivers and DB's we have on our roster a trade could happen.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 21, 2018, 05:38:47 PM
Ok man....that's not even funny.  :P

Kuale out of retirement? :)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 21, 2018, 05:40:40 PM
I am sure surprised that with a HC that was a monster in the MLB spot that we are so weak at LB never mind MLB. We have one of the weaker LB groups in the CFL and it showed at the end of last year when Leggett went down. Really nothing has been done to improve on it since last year except getting rid of Hurl. Leggett was real good before he went down but will he be ok this year after his injury or will he even be a LB this year with Fenner coming in? And on the opposite side of the LB line we have Wild in for now, will he make it through this year while playing Wil, ST and backup MLB and backup long snapper?
It seems that they are bringing in a lot of receivers this year and also DB's but forgetting our weak lb group. MOS and Walters said that they are happy with the guys that they have at LB spot but is it just hear say or maybe they have an eye on a couple players but don't want to show there hand.
MLB is a very important spot as they have to call the play for the D so do you think JSK is ready for it and how about his backups? JSK played real good at the end of last year but is he ready to take the next step and move to the captains spot (MLB), Singleton played well in his first year but he was a MLB.
I guess time will tell as TC is still a little time away, with all the receivers and DB's we have on our roster a trade could happen.

Who would trade for a receiver or DB that we'd be willing to give up and give us something of value in return?

Not likely to happen.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: canadaguy2112 on February 21, 2018, 06:54:08 PM
What's Moreno doing now of days lol


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 21, 2018, 07:16:09 PM
What's Moreno doing now of days lol
Or Tom Canada?  Is he still hanging out at Earls?   :D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 21, 2018, 07:46:27 PM
Lobendahn would be my choice, maybe he's had time to heal up, like a Jack Morris story. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: rubanski on February 21, 2018, 08:19:39 PM
Greg Peach couldn't play D-end, why not play him at another position he's no good at - LB!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 21, 2018, 10:55:25 PM
Whats Ricky Foley up too? Lol


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: M.O.A.B. on February 21, 2018, 10:57:06 PM
Whats Ricky Foley up too? Lol

He's on the Leo's roster.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: M.O.A.B. on February 21, 2018, 10:58:12 PM
Who holds Justin Durant rights?  :)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on February 21, 2018, 11:24:18 PM
Panic will happen when we trade with Regina to get Hurl back :(

That will never happen, ever.  Our coaches have said we've got better talent internally, and hopefully they're right, but if they aren't, we'll trade for a proven MLB, and move forward, not backwards.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: KINGCHARLES on February 22, 2018, 01:39:26 AM
how about Ryland Wickman?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 22, 2018, 01:50:41 AM
That will never happen, ever.  Our coaches have said we've got better talent internally, and hopefully they're right, but if they aren't, we'll trade for a proven MLB, and move forward, not backwards.

I was kidding.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Big Daddy on February 22, 2018, 02:59:40 AM
Barrin Simpson would be my choice - I?m sure he?s still in game shape.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 22, 2018, 10:58:55 AM
Barrin Simpson would be my choice - I?m sure he?s still in game shape.

Yep Barrin is in prime shape...for bowling....lol


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: thunderNlightning on February 22, 2018, 12:31:50 PM
Barrin Simpson would be my choice - I?m sure he?s still in game shape.

Minister of defence


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Nic16 on February 22, 2018, 01:52:35 PM
Call Greg Battle.

The way that guy practiced I?m sure he?s still in game shape. He?s 53, but probably in better shape than Gordie Howe when he played in the NHL in his 50?s.  ;)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 22, 2018, 04:15:28 PM
OK....now that everyone?s mentioning past great Bomber MLBers how about Phil Mnnick who came to the Bombers in 1965, at the end of their glory years.  He was a great football player playing on mostly bad Bomber teams.....but I remember him well.

https://www.bluebombers.com/2017/04/27/phil-minnick/



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 22, 2018, 04:19:39 PM
OK....now that everyone?s mentioning past great Bomber MLBers how about Phil Mnnick who came to the Bombers in 1965, at the end of their glory years.  He was a great football player playing on mostly bad Bomber teams.....but I remember him well.

https://www.bluebombers.com/2017/04/27/phil-minnick/



I'm not sure that all the LBers being mentioned are past great Bomber MLBers....I'm talking bout you Kuale.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 22, 2018, 04:30:41 PM
I'm not sure that all the LBers being mentioned are past great Bomber MLBers....I'm talking bout you Kuale.
Kuale wasn?t around very long and I never liked him much because he was a dirty player who took a lot of bad penalties....Minnick played 8 seasons and was a CFL all star.  He was an outstanding player on mainly bad teams.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 22, 2018, 04:33:09 PM
Kuale wasn?t around very long and I never liked him much because he was a dirty player who took a lot of bad penalties....Minnick played 8 seasons and was a CFL all star.  He was an outstanding player on mainly bad teams.

For sure. Not knocking Minnick at all.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 22, 2018, 07:04:21 PM
For sure. Not knocking Minnick at all.
I didn?t think you were....Kuale we definitely agree on....I?m still hoping we can get Muamba because it would give us more options being a Nat starter.....it always boils down to $$ and if we?re seriously hoping to play in the November 25 GC in Edmonton....he just might be the one to help us get there.   We have no depth at LBer and he would definitely upgrade that group.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 22, 2018, 07:08:05 PM
I didn?t think you were....Kuale we definitely agree on....I?m still hoping we can get Muamba because it would give us more options being a Nat starter.....it always boils down to $$ and if we?re seriously hoping to play in the November 25 GC in Edmonton....he just might be the one to help us get there.   We have no depth at LBer and he would definitely upgrade that group.
 

I don't want us to go into cap hell to get him, but I think he would be a HUGE acquisition if we can find a way.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 22, 2018, 07:15:59 PM
I don't want us to go into cap hell to get him, but I think he would be a HUGE acquisition if we can find a way.

Agreed. Adding a proven, experienced, highly skilled MLB - a NAT, no less - would be a massive upgrade on defense.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on February 23, 2018, 03:35:28 AM
O'Shea.

He looks in great shape, knows the defence! Lapo could be the game day sideline head coach


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Sec223 on February 23, 2018, 03:44:25 AM
Beef up Loffler


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 23, 2018, 01:29:13 PM
Beef up Loffler

Take an injury prone League All Star FS, and make him slower by adding weight and play him out of position in a spot where he will take the absolute most punishment.

Discussed many times, absolutely horrible idea.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 23, 2018, 02:15:34 PM
Take an injury prone League All Star FS, and make him slower by adding weight and play him out of position in a spot where he will take the absolute most punishment.

Discussed many times, absolutely horrible idea.

Pretty sure he was joking.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on February 24, 2018, 02:58:50 AM
Loffler hardly practiced last year, he was so banged up. MLB mite kill him.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: ModAdmin on February 24, 2018, 08:33:36 PM
Maybe the door to Muamba's return to Winnipeg is still open a crack.

Darren Cameron
‏Verified account @Darren_Cameron
1h1 hour Darren Cameron Retweeted murray
We will see.

Replying to @Darren_Cameron
R the #Bombers going@to make room for Muamba?  Or are they happy with Santos Knox and Wild in the middle?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Sec223 on February 24, 2018, 09:17:32 PM
Beef up Loffler
Yes I was joking. Just making a stupid comment like a bunch others on here. Hey look everyone I made a funny LOL


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 24, 2018, 11:00:31 PM
Maybe the door to Muamba's return to Winnipeg is still open a crack.

Darren Cameron
‏Verified account @Darren_Cameron
1h1 hour Darren Cameron Retweeted murray
We will see.

Replying to @Darren_Cameron
R the #Bombers going@to make room for Muamba?  Or are they happy with Santos Knox and Wild in the middle?

"We will see" seems to reiterate what Walters said at his presser. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on February 25, 2018, 02:40:43 PM
Whenever I asked my parents if they would buy me a new Ninja Turtle action figure when we went to Toys R Us, if they said "we will see", that was not looking good for me.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on February 25, 2018, 03:08:46 PM
Yes I was joking. Just making a stupid comment like a bunch others on here. Hey look everyone I made a funny LOL

I made a funny the other day and it got deleted.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on February 25, 2018, 04:07:36 PM
At one point I could have seen him at MLB. He has the size, he hits like an MLB, and he has a nose for the ball. However after last year, I am would leave him at safety.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 25, 2018, 10:51:34 PM
From Herb: Hearing #Als wined and dined free agent MLB @HenocMuamba last week in Montreal. Now he?s off to Winnipeg for similar treatment.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on February 25, 2018, 10:58:11 PM
From Herb: Hearing #Als wined and dined free agent MLB @HenocMuamba last week in Montreal. Now he?s off to Winnipeg for similar treatment.


More details

Henoc Muamba visits Montreal Alouettes
Posted on February 25, 2018 by Justin Dunk // 1 Comment
Henoc Muamba took a trip the La Belle Province.

The ratio-breaking Canadian linebacker spent time meeting Alouettes coaches and seeing the facilities last week.

After returning north of the border from the NFL in 2015, Muamba signed a lucrative two-year deal with Montreal where he played four games making 14 tackles in 2016. Then-general manager Jim Popp shopped Muamba prior to a $55,000 bonus that was due on Feb. 16, 2016. Saskatchewan was one of the interested team and the Als released Muamba he eventually signed with the Riders. Kavis Reed is now the general manager of an entirely different regime which has Montreal in the mix.

Following two seasons in Saskatchewan, the Riders put Muamba on the trade block in mid-February, but when no deal was consummated, the 28-year-old became a free agent after the Riders released him before an off-season payment was due on Feb 15.

Last season Muamba had his best year since the CFL all-star campaign he put together in 2013. He played in 17 games making 82 tackles, three forced fumbles and two interceptions to earn the Riders Most Outstanding Canadian award.

Overall Muamba has played in 73 career games since Winnipeg selected him No. 1 overall in the 2011 CFL Draft. He has recorded 267 tackles, 74 special teams tackles, 11 forced fumbles, six sacks, four interceptions and one touchdown.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 25, 2018, 11:03:53 PM
Jeff Hamilton: Henoc Muamba has arrived in Winnipeg and will be here for the next couple of days, as the #Bombers do their best to convince him to stay. #wfp


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on February 25, 2018, 11:28:07 PM
The Muamba tour continues. lol.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 25, 2018, 11:58:20 PM
The Muamba tour continues. lol.
More of a fishing trip....lol!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Jesse on February 26, 2018, 12:10:40 AM
The Muamba tour continues. lol.

I hope we win this time. I want him back *** ****


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 26, 2018, 12:14:59 AM
time to be 'all in'....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 26, 2018, 01:17:42 AM
Jeff Hamilton: Henoc Muamba has arrived in Winnipeg and will be here for the next couple of days, as the #Bombers do their best to convince him to stay. #wfp

Wow... we made the list this time...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 26, 2018, 01:24:32 AM
Wow... we made the list this time...
We made the list last time but Muamba cancelled at the last minute.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on February 26, 2018, 02:10:41 AM
If he signs everyone will love him and buy a jersey......


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bustamente on February 26, 2018, 02:15:35 AM
More of a fishing trip....lol!

More like a couple of free steak dinners trip


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bunker on February 26, 2018, 03:04:45 AM
More like a lets make Kavis think he has competition so I can squeeze crazy Westerman money out of him trip.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Tehedra on February 26, 2018, 05:14:21 AM
I mean 1 year contract; given he already made 30k.  He could come in at the same cost as some of the other MLBs that were in the market.  I just would not want to over pay and I would consider the 30k as part of his pay even if it was not our team.  If we give him like 200k that would mean he made 230k and I would think that is a gross over pay.  The most I would want to see Walters give him for this year is 170k.  Though I would prefer to see something more like 150k to 160k.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: thunderNlightning on February 26, 2018, 05:20:59 AM
Maybe Walters will take him out to subway and get a contract made up on napkins


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 26, 2018, 05:26:01 AM
More like a couple of free steak dinners trip
Whatever he can hook I?m sure....and the bidding starts at 200K....do I hear 210K......??


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: ModAdmin on February 26, 2018, 05:37:15 AM
Justin Dunk says - "Sources say Muamba was favouring signing with Winnipeg recently, but his decision is not yet final."

The beat goes on.  Stay tuned.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 26, 2018, 06:11:52 AM
Justin Dunk says - "Sources say Muamba was favouring signing with Winnipeg recently, but his decision is not yet final."

The beat goes on.  Stay tuned.
He would be better off signing here even for a little less $$....he has  a better shot at a Grey Cup with us which has already been a motivating factor for guys like Bowman and Roh.  if we sign him I am concerned who might have to be released to make room....as Walters indicated.  The suspense is building.....but he just might be the missing piece of the puzzle on D.....

Thoughts?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on February 26, 2018, 07:30:13 AM
So,some posted hat all that financial stuff isn't done till after the season.  I suspect almost every Grey Cup winner in the last decade has been over the cap.  Saskatchewan was caught. So you win the cup and release someone.

Durant if he is being paid over $100,000 seems like a waste if he Is sitting on the bench. Go get that former Calgary backup.  If someone has to go Okopulogo if he is making $100,00 or more.

There are lots of ways to manipulate this.
Obviously Walters has figured this out, as we have Hanec in town, and this is a better option than Montreal.
I would expect him to me announced shortly. They improved the Zoo, he could bus it to the stadium if he lives downtown in three years.  Buy groceries downtown in a couple more years, while he lives in TrueNorth Sq.  and. We have IKEA amd a Nike outlet store.

Plus they apparently fixed the leaks at IGF, and. Your Mom and Dad can feel assured the concourse won't cave in from those heavy beer kegs being transported.

Let the NHL trade deadline pass. Tuesday, expect the announcement, take the big fella to the Jets game for first place, vs.the Predators.  Done!

What more do you want


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 26, 2018, 08:55:01 AM
I mean 1 year contract; given he already made 30k.  He could come in at the same cost as some of the other MLBs that were in the market.  I just would not want to over pay and I would consider the 30k as part of his pay even if it was not our team.  If we give him like 200k that would mean he made 230k and I would think that is a gross over pay.  The most I would want to see Walters give him for this year is 170k.  Though I would prefer to see something more like 150k to 160k.


I agree. I think his contract will be in the range of what Westerman made last year, in the $170k range. Nice to hear he?s leaning towards signing with the Bombers!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 26, 2018, 12:52:13 PM
time to be 'all in'....

Totally agree. This team is as strong as any we have fielded over the past couple decades. We need to make our Grey Cup push this year. The rebuild is over and we have a narrow window in which to make championship hay. Right now we have a couple pretty glaring deficiencies to fix before that can happen, MLBer and ratio flexibility. Sign Muamba and I think the last domino drops as far as our roster build for a championship. Gitter done Walters!!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 26, 2018, 12:54:25 PM
Wow... we made the list this time...

Expect a signing on Tuesday Aards. BTW, I wouldn't expect Jake Thomas back. ;)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 26, 2018, 01:06:01 PM
Maybe Walters will take him out to subway and get a contract made up on napkins

I believe Timmies is the neutral location of choice for personnel decisions.

I mean 1 year contract; given he already made 30k.  He could come in at the same cost as some of the other MLBs that were in the market.  I just would not want to over pay and I would consider the 30k as part of his pay even if it was not our team.  If we give him like 200k that would mean he made 230k and I would think that is a gross over pay.  The most I would want to see Walters give him for this year is 170k.  Though I would prefer to see something more like 150k to 160k.

Unless every team he is negotiating with in including the $30k he's already received in their contract offer, you can use that as part of the deal.  Montreal doesn't care that SSK paid him $30 already, they will pay him what they feel is proper value, plus another $30-50k ;)

Is he worth dumping another roster player to pay him $170k just to get his passport?  When that means we have JSK sitting on the bench or worse on an ELC, who might be just as good on the field?

If we land him at $140-$150k, with maybe a bonus for MOC or MOP, then I can see sitting JSK.  I'm sure Reed will be happy paying $180k+ incentives.  It will probably come down to whether he values post season potential and chemistry...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 26, 2018, 01:08:58 PM
I believe Timmies is the neutral location of choice for personnel decisions.

Yep classy guy that Walters. ;D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 26, 2018, 01:15:48 PM
I believe Timmies is the neutral location of choice for personnel decisions.

Unless every team he is negotiating with in including the $30k he's already received in their contract offer, you can use that as part of the deal.  Montreal doesn't care that SSK paid him $30 already, they will pay him what they feel is proper value, plus another $30-50k ;)

Is he worth dumping another roster player to pay him $170k just to get his passport?  When that means we have JSK sitting on the bench or worse on an ELC, who might be just as good on the field?

If we land him at $140-$150k, with maybe a bonus for MOC or MOP, then I can see sitting JSK.  I'm sure Reed will be happy paying $180k+ incentives.  It will probably come down to whether he values post season potential and chemistry...
I think if we sign Muamba, JSK starts at WIL and Wild is the backup DI and on special teams.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 26, 2018, 01:35:43 PM
Justin Dunk says - "Sources say Muamba was favouring signing with Winnipeg recently, but his decision is not yet final."

The beat goes on.  Stay tuned.

Here's hoping Dunk is right about this.

Totally agree. This team is as strong as any we have fielded over the past couple decades. We need to make our Grey Cup push this year. The rebuild is over and we have a narrow window in which to make championship hay. Right now we have a couple pretty glaring deficiencies to fix before that can happen, MLBer and ratio flexibility. Sign Muamba and I think the last domino drops as far as our roster build for a championship. Gitter done Walters!!

Well said. Muamba addresses the MLB position and the ratio of the team.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: fansince79 on February 26, 2018, 01:41:17 PM
This Muamba cross Canada tour 2.0 ****** me off for some reason, just like it did the first time he pulled this. Just my opinion. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 26, 2018, 01:42:04 PM
This Muamba cross Canada tour 2.0 ****** me off for some reason, just like it did the first time he pulled this. Just my opinion. 
I'm not certain, but I think this time it's just between Winnipeg and Montreal. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 26, 2018, 02:03:53 PM
I think if we sign Muamba, JSK starts at WIL and Wild is the backup DI and on special teams.


I think if they sign Muamba, Wild and Flanders are the salaries that are sacrificed, no way they cut Ogo unless they want to break something else that isn't broken.  With these sacrifices in mind I hope they at least sign him to a two year deal to make it worth their while.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 26, 2018, 02:06:21 PM
I think it they sign Muamba, Wild and Flanders are the salaries that are sacrificed, no way they cut Ogo unless they want to break something else that isn't broken.  With these sacrifices in mind I hope they at least sign him to a two year deal to make it worth their while.

With the CBA up, and his ego still thinking he can hit the NFL again if he has a good year, or at least parlay a good year into a $200k+ CFL deal, no way he signs more than a 1 year deal, unless it has sizeable a roster bonus due Jan 1 to following year...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 26, 2018, 02:07:36 PM
With the CBA up, and his ego still thinking he can hit the NFL again if he has a good year, or at least parlay a good year into a $200k+ CFL deal, no way he signs more than a 1 year deal, unless it has sizeable a roster bonus due Jan 1 to following year...
I?d say Muamba?s NFL aspirations are over.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bluengold204 on February 26, 2018, 02:09:25 PM
This Muamba cross Canada tour 2.0 ****** me off for some reason, just like it did the first time he pulled this. Just my opinion. 

Why so upset?  He's just trying to find the best deal, nothing wrong with that.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: sweep the leg on February 26, 2018, 02:21:54 PM
I think if they sign Muamba, Wild and Flanders are the salaries that are sacrificed, no way they cut Ogo unless they want to break something else that isn't broken.  With these sacrifices in mind I hope they at least sign him to a two year deal to make it worth their while.
How much can Flanders be making? He's a part time American.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blueraid on February 26, 2018, 02:23:13 PM
So if you are Henoc....do you sign with a dumpster fire with little chance of post season money.....orrrr do you go with us ...a perceived contender for all of the marbles...hmmmmm no brainer...Expect the announcement shortly and that we have been the end spot for tour 2.0// ;)  I would also add that something has to give but it won't be Ogopogo


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 26, 2018, 02:27:42 PM
With the CBA up, and his ego still thinking he can hit the NFL again if he has a good year, or at least parlay a good year into a $200k+ CFL deal, no way he signs more than a 1 year deal, unless it has sizeable a roster bonus due Jan 1 to following year...

You are just making stuff up. Muamba signed for 3 years on his last contract. He knows the NFL window for him is closed. BTW, every multi year contract of a star player comes with a sizable roster bonus due in the offseason. That standard procedure really.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 26, 2018, 02:30:37 PM
So if you are Henoc....do you sign with a dumpster fire with little chance of post season money.....orrrr do you go with us ...a perceived contender for all of the marbles...hmmmmm no brainer...Expect the announcement shortly and that we have been the end spot for tour 2.0// ;)  I would also add that something has to give but it won't be Ogopogo

I would sign in Winnipeg unless there is a significant difference in monetary value.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 26, 2018, 02:40:00 PM
With the CBA up, and his ego still thinking he can hit the NFL again if he has a good year, or at least parlay a good year into a $200k+ CFL deal, no way he signs more than a 1 year deal, unless it has sizeable a roster bonus due Jan 1 to following year...

Walters needs to be prepared to play hardball with Hardaway to get the deal that helps the team the most without causing SMS grief later on.  K.W. is bargaining from a position of strength IMO, his club is far better than the Als and they have other options to play MLB so they're in no way desperate.  If he can't get two years out of him at a fair market price, just let him walk away, take it or leave it.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on February 26, 2018, 02:58:24 PM
Walters needs to be prepared to play hardball with Hardaway to get the deal that helps the team the most without causing SMS grief later on.  K.W. is bargaining from a position of strength IMO, his club is far better than the Als and they have other options to play MLB so they're in no way desperate.  If he can't get two years out of him at a fair market price, just let him walk away, take it or leave it.

That's really what it comes down to. I agree.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 26, 2018, 03:00:12 PM
Walters needs to be prepared to play hardball with Hardaway to get the deal that helps the team the most without causing SMS grief later on.  K.W. is bargaining from a position of strength IMO, his club is far better than the Als and they have other options to play MLB so they're in no way desperate.  If he can't get two years out of him at a fair market price, just let him walk away, take it or leave it.
I agree albeit I?m thinking Walters realizes that Muamba may just be the missing link on defence that we need to make a real push for the Holy Grail.   Being that he?s a starter of above average ability and a Canadian gives the Bombers so much more flexibility regarding the ratio that he might just pay top dollar to sign him.   If he does I think they keep Wild for depth and ST.....he signed Demski and Lafrance for a reason....so who will it be?  


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 26, 2018, 03:16:46 PM
Walters needs to be prepared to play hardball with Hardaway to get the deal that helps the team the most without causing SMS grief later on.  K.W. is bargaining from a position of strength IMO, his club is far better than the Als and they have other options to play MLB so they're in no way desperate.  If he can't get two years out of him at a fair market price, just let him walk away, take it or leave it.

Why does it make a difference if it is a one year or two year deal? This is the age of one year contracts...better get used to them. I'd love to get Henoc on a two year deal for fair market value but if we need to shorten the term in order to get the price, that would be good as well. We literally have 20 guys on one year contracts. We need him THIS year, make it happen Walters.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Nic16 on February 26, 2018, 03:24:05 PM
For those frustrated with the HM magical mystery tour 2.0, direct your anger at the promoter - Hardaway.

The contract offered by both teams must be in the same ball park, otherwise why book the tour...??

So, taking everyting else into consideration, I would be puzzled as to why HM would depart Winnipeg without a signed contract.

New organizational leadership, new winning attitude surrounding the team, he leaves one new stadium for another with a great fanbase and an even better city...and he joins a legit GC contender!

Get it done KW!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 26, 2018, 03:26:15 PM
For those frustrated with the HM magical mystery tour 2.0, direct your anger at the promoter - Hardaway.

The contract offered by both teams must be in the same ball park, otherwise why book the tour...??

So, taking everyting else into consideration, I would be puzzled as to why HM would depart Winnipeg without a signed contract.

New organizational leadership, new winning attitude surrounding the team, he leaves one new stadium for another with a great fanbase and an even better city...and he joins a legit GC contender!

Get it done KW!
Only reason I can think of to choose Montreal over Winnipeg is if Reed's offer blows ours away.  And Montreal is closer to home for Henoc, but that doesn't seem to play a factor since he chose Sask last year. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on February 26, 2018, 03:40:22 PM
Muamba's about the money. If Montreal is even $5K higher, he'll go there. If we negotiate with the mindset that we really don't need him, then we really won't get him. If we do sign him, expect to hear that Montreal offered more, but he really wanted to be in Winnipeg.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 26, 2018, 03:46:31 PM
Why so upset?  He's just trying to find the best deal, nothing wrong with that.

Pretty sure hundreds of CFL players have negotiated their best deals over this offseason, only one has done a "tour"...  Except Kavis flying to Westerman... sort of a reverse tour putting Reed out of communications during a very vital time of FA.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In Edmonton on February 26, 2018, 03:50:05 PM
I did have giggle when it was reported that Montreal toured him around their facilities. I don't think that is going to woo a guy who has just played in the CFL's newest facility, and is considering coming to Winnipeg. He isn't choosing Montreal based on their facilities!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 26, 2018, 03:51:09 PM
I did have giggle when it was reported that Montreal toured him around their facilities. I don't think that is going to woo a guy who has just played in the CFL's newest facility, and is considering coming to Winnipeg. He isn't choosing Montreal based on their facilities!
Plus he played in that same facility a couple years ago!   :D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 26, 2018, 03:57:28 PM
Pretty sure hundreds of CFL players have negotiated their best deals over this offseason, only one has done a "tour"...  Except Kavis flying to Westerman... sort of a reverse tour putting Reed out of communications during a very vital time of FA.

You have no idea how many players are wined and dined before signing somewhere. This isn't something unique to Muamba.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Leroy on February 26, 2018, 04:05:41 PM
Muamba's about the money. If Montreal is even $5K higher, he'll go there. If we negotiate with the mindset that we really don't need him, then we really won't get him. If we do sign him, expect to hear that Montreal offered more, but he really wanted to be in Winnipeg.

I love posts like these. Setting yourself up to be proven right no matter what facts are presented.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 26, 2018, 04:10:31 PM
You have no idea how many players are wined and dined before signing somewhere. This isn't something unique to Muamba.

Really?  Which other CFL signee's have national reporters following their "tour"? 

Not saying players don't get a dinner or other perks, or even a trip to visit a city or facility.  Just saying there is one player who has made it a thing to do this all in public. With media covering it. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on February 26, 2018, 04:10:52 PM
I love posts like these. Setting yourself up to be proven right no matter what facts are presented.
Proven right?  ;D

No way to be proven right or wrong when it comes to signings, cuz they don't release the players contract numbers or what other offers they get.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 26, 2018, 04:12:02 PM
Proven right?  ;D

No way to be proven right or wrong when it comes to signings, cuz they don't release the players contract numbers or what other offers they get.
Justin Dunk often has information like this, especially if it is Bomber related.   


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 26, 2018, 04:19:33 PM
Really?  Which other CFL signee's have national reporters following their "tour"? 

Not saying players don't get a dinner or other perks, or even a trip to visit a city or facility.  Just saying there is one player who has made it a thing to do this all in public. With media covering it. 

Really? No one was watching the Bowman chase? The National media picks who they are going to cover based on what they think will sell papers or ads. You can't blame Henoc because his agent is great at working the press. Hardaway is a good agent for the players and knows how to squeeze every nickel out of an employer of his guys. If I were HM, I would do exactly the same thing.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 26, 2018, 04:22:08 PM
Why does it make a difference if it is a one year or two year deal? This is the age of one year contracts...better get used to them. I'd love to get Henoc on a two year deal for fair market value but if we need to shorten the term in order to get the price, that would be good as well. We literally have 20 guys on one year contracts. We need him THIS year, make it happen Walters.

You know Henoc is going to test the market again at the first opportunity given so it would be beneficial to put that off as long as possible so they don't have to waste time searching for a new MLB again next year.  Tying up Muamba for at least two years would add a bit of stability to the long-term game plan as he would be one of the keystones the D is built around.  Next year will bring another wave of up and coming and established players seeking bigger contracts by testing F.A. so adding year to year stability to core players when possible only makes sense. 

I think the idea of making a one-time dash for the G.C. this year is pretty unrealistic, as anything can happen in the CFL and usually does as the Stamps well know.  A better plan is to build a team that wins consistently and plan for a G.C. victory to occur sometime within a 3 year window, it could potentially happen this year but as they say, hope for the best....plan for second.




Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 26, 2018, 04:27:16 PM
Really? No one was watching the Bowman chase? The National media picks who they are going to cover based on what they think will sell papers or ads. You can't blame Henoc because his agent is great at working the press. Hardaway is a good agent for the players and knows how to squeeze every nickel out of an employer of his guys. If I were HM, I would do exactly the same thing.

Hardaway is good at squeezing every nickle of contract money out of a team, maximizing his commission.  But he's making Muamba into a mercenary that will not create lasting benefits for the player in the community during or after football.

If he and Doug Brown walked into a bar, I'm betting one of them might not pay for his drinks that evening.

For the player, there's more to life than this contract.  For the agent, not so much.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on February 26, 2018, 04:33:36 PM
Hardaway is good at squeezing every nickle of contract money out of a team, maximizing his commission.  But he's making Muamba into a mercenary that will not create lasting benefits for the player in the community during or after football.

If he and Doug Brown walked into a bar, I'm betting one of them might not pay for his drinks that evening.

For the player, there's more to life than this contract.  For the agent, not so much.

If Muamba plays like he did his first tour in Winnipeg fans and this community you talk of will be lined up for his Jersey and to buy him drinks...this mercenary thing you talk of means nothing.

It's all about the on-field performance.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 26, 2018, 04:33:55 PM
You know Henoc is going to test the market again at the first opportunity given so it would be beneficial to put that off as long as possible so they don't have to waste time searching for a new MLB again next year.  Tying up Muamba for at least two years would add a bit of stability to the long-term game plan as he would be one of the keystones the D is built around.  Next year will bring another wave of up and coming and established players seeking bigger contracts by testing F.A. so adding year to year stability to core players when possible only makes sense. 

I think the idea of making a one-time dash for the G.C. this year is pretty unrealistic, as anything can happen in the CFL and usually does as the Stamps well know.  A better plan is to build a team that wins consistently and plan for a G.C. victory to occur sometime within a 3 year window, it could potentially happen this year but as they say, hope for the best....plan for second.




Unfortunately, the age of one year contracts is upon us and much of what you are saying is now unrealistic.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 26, 2018, 04:35:33 PM
If Muamba plays like he did his first tour in Winnipeg fans and this community you talk of will be lined up for his Jersey and to buy him drinks...this mercenary think you talk of means nothing.

It's all about the on-field performance.

Not to mention that the last contract he signed was a three year deal and the previous was a two year. Not sure why all this mercenary talk about Henoc. He has proven he is willing to commit to the team that signs him....they have not committed to him. Still a lot of people hurt that he didn't come back to us I guess.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on February 26, 2018, 04:41:12 PM
You know Henoc is going to test the market again at the first opportunity given so it would be beneficial to put that off as long as possible so they don't have to waste time searching for a new MLB again next year.  Tying up Muamba for at least two years would add a bit of stability to the long-term game plan as he would be one of the keystones the D is built around.  Next year will bring another wave of up and coming and established players seeking bigger contracts by testing F.A. so adding year to year stability to core players when possible only makes sense. 

I think the idea of making a one-time dash for the G.C. this year is pretty unrealistic, as anything can happen in the CFL and usually does as the Stamps well know.  A better plan is to build a team that wins consistently and plan for a G.C. victory to occur sometime within a 3 year window, it could potentially happen this year but as they say, hope for the best....plan for second.




Not only is there a move to one year contracts in general, but with the pending expiration of the CBA, many players are intentionally signing one year deals to see how things shake out, so the roster turnover issue will be exacerbated this year. 

Given we have so many one year contracts ourselves, and that there will be a ton of other free agents in the marketplace next year as well, we really aren't mortgaging the future if we go all in this year.  Pretty much every team will be able to remake most of their roster after this year. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 26, 2018, 04:44:44 PM
I?m not too hung up on the length of the contract. I love our roster this year so I want Muamba THIS season. I think we?ve got a legit shot at a Grey Cup.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 26, 2018, 04:50:36 PM
I?m not too hung up on the length of the contract. I love our roster this year so I want Muamba THIS season. I think we?ve got a legit shot at a Grey Cup.
yep....bingo


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 26, 2018, 05:06:37 PM
Unfortunately, the age of one year contracts is upon us and much of what you are saying is now unrealistic.

Be that as it may, GM's like Huff and Walters have attempted to keep their core group intact season to season.  Even if it has become more difficult to achieve, I don't see why this is still not the best strategy to pursue.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 26, 2018, 05:09:01 PM
I?m not too hung up on the length of the contract. I love our roster this year so I want Muamba THIS season. I think we?ve got a legit shot at a Grey Cup.

This is where I stand at present regarding the Bombers.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 26, 2018, 05:17:53 PM
Be that as it may, GM's like Huff and Walters have attempted to keep their core group intact season to season.  Even if it has become more difficult to achieve, I don't see why this is still not the best strategy to pursue.

Who says it's not the best strategy to pursue? It still is, however, with one year deals being the norm hiring a player on a short term no longer carries a big downside. Signing Muamba to a one year deal doesn't hurt us at all, even if he leaves.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 26, 2018, 05:19:47 PM
I agree with gbill. We are a missing ingredient or two from being a Grey Cup favorite. Muamba would be a guy that could take us over the hump.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 26, 2018, 05:21:13 PM
and as far as who gets cut to make room? I don't think that will be decided until mid season, allowing for what can be made up by the 6 game and possibly even the PR...  the more we can make up here and there the less impact of a cut we have to make... SMS isn't finalized until the end of the season...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 26, 2018, 05:32:30 PM
I?m not too hung up on the length of the contract. I love our roster this year so I want Muamba THIS season. I think we?ve got a legit shot at a Grey Cup.

Realistically 4 other CFL teams can claim the same odds.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 26, 2018, 05:39:29 PM
Realistically 4 other CFL teams can claim the same odds.

last year? maybe... but this year with the pieces already in place and then adding him and the flexibility with the ratio it can provide? we're a dangerous team... I don't think you could have said that last year, this year you can...  we will have added skill, quality depth, and now flexibility as insurance in case of injury... not only a good team, but a smart one as well...

EDIT: that is assuming we add Muamba...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 26, 2018, 05:47:43 PM
and as far as who gets cut to make room? I don't think that will be decided until mid season, allowing for what can be made up by the 6 game and possibly even the PR...  the more we can make up here and there the less impact of a cut we have to make... SMS isn't finalized until the end of the season...

Exactly. Making up the difference between Muamba and Hurl should not be that difficult in season.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 26, 2018, 05:49:05 PM
last year? maybe... but this year with the pieces already in place and then adding him and the flexibility with the ratio it can provide? we're a dangerous team... I don't think you could have said that last year, this year you can...  we will have added skill, quality depth, and now flexibility as insurance in case of injury... not only a good team, but a smart one as well...

EDIT: that is assuming we add Muamba...


What we really don't know is how well Richie Hall's D will perform this year, has it been fixed by player additions or a change of scheme?  Only time will tell. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on February 26, 2018, 05:55:13 PM

What we really don't know is how well Richie Hall's D will perform this year, has it been fixed by player additions or a change of scheme?  Only time will tell. 

true, but it seems to be the general consensus that we will have improved overall in defense, specifically in areas of concern...  on paper, people should fear the Bombers...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 26, 2018, 06:34:48 PM

What we really don't know is how well Richie Hall's D will perform this year, has it been fixed by player additions or a change of scheme?  Only time will tell. 

True. However, I think the understatement of the year is that Muamba>Hurl in ANY scheme.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on February 26, 2018, 07:37:40 PM
True. However, I think the understatement of the year is that Muamba>Hurl in ANY scheme.

Without question. Muamba is a way better player.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 26, 2018, 07:39:00 PM
Without question. Muamba is a way better player.
Except according to Rider fans, now that Hurl is a Rider  ;)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue girl on February 26, 2018, 09:29:21 PM
If it's down to Winnipeg and Montreal I would try to sell him on the fact that he has a better chance of winning a Grey Cup with us. I don't even care if it's only a one year contract. Get it done. IMO this is the missing piece to winning the Grey Cup.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TKTKD on February 26, 2018, 09:49:17 PM
As a Bomber Muamba will have one extra chance in the regular season to beat the Riders. #signthecontract


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: RebusRankin on February 26, 2018, 09:51:19 PM
Except according to Rider fans, now that Hurl is a Rider  ;)

Who trusts a group of people who think that a watermelon is a hat?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bustamente on February 26, 2018, 10:02:48 PM
So how quickly after dinner do you put a contract in front of his face  ;D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: M.O.A.B. on February 26, 2018, 10:27:32 PM
So how quickly after dinner do you put a contract in front of his face  ;D

after he drank more wine, i suppose 😅


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TecnoGenius on February 27, 2018, 12:04:39 AM
If he signs everyone will love him and buy a jersey......

Haha, not if they're smart they won't (buy a jersey)!  Even if he signs here, we all know he'll be here 1 year and then on to the next greener pasture.  How useful is that Goltz jersey?   :D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on February 27, 2018, 12:08:34 AM


http://3downnation.com/2018/02/26/bombers-wining-and-dining-henoc-muamba/


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on February 27, 2018, 12:20:49 AM
Screw him.

The only reason I want him here is that we need a middle LB.

But really, he's put the whatever up the whatever to us.

Really if there was somebody else, take the else. Lol!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on February 27, 2018, 12:40:33 AM
Screw him.

The only reason I want him here is that we need a middle LB.

But really, he's put the whatever up the whatever to us.

Really if there was somebody else, take the else. Lol!
[/quote/] We agree in that he is a greedy selfish guy we do not want here. PASS


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 27, 2018, 01:05:32 AM
Anyone go to Hy?s tonight to see how the dinner was going with Henoc?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bustamente on February 27, 2018, 02:35:09 AM
Anyone go to Hy?s tonight to see how the dinner was going with Henoc?

Ya, heard they brought out a cake for him and when he cut into it a contract popped out, he excused himself and left. ;D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: yogi on February 27, 2018, 05:25:20 AM
I'm hearing he's favouring Montreal  :( Not looking good


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on February 27, 2018, 07:11:27 AM
Ya know,......like I said.  This ain't hard.  Ya wanna be a winner?  Or a loser?
We are going to the Cup,....or at least a playoff, Montreal, is going to the Pity party.  No wait, who is their QB?
Josh Freeman, the ex NFL Hall,of Famer, or no wait...... The  Western Whip, what's his name? Willy... Muamba, if ya wanna play there go ahead.  At least you will have a lot of playing time.

This is no contest. If he chooses Montreal,he should be checked for PTSD, or whatever it's is that eats away at your brain after numerous concussions.

Go Defence!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 27, 2018, 07:48:53 AM
I'm hearing he's favouring Montreal  :( Not looking good
Where did you hear that? 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 27, 2018, 11:35:28 AM
I'm hearing he's favouring Montreal  :( Not looking good

Dunk says he's favoring Winnipeg.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 27, 2018, 11:38:36 AM
Where did you hear that? 

Ignore...he's a Rider fan. Might even be Migs.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 27, 2018, 12:35:14 PM
Dunk says he's favoring Winnipeg.
We will likely know very soon....and I?m sure Montreal?s offer was lucrative.   I will be surprised if we land him and if we do it may come at a hefty price....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Darwinismyhomeboy on February 27, 2018, 12:57:40 PM
Dunk says he's favoring Winnipeg.

That could just be a 'rumor' spread by his agent so Montreal with up their bid just a bit more.  I'd put nothing past his agent.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bluengold204 on February 27, 2018, 01:17:12 PM
Anyone go to Hy?s tonight to see how the dinner was going with Henoc?

Kind of stalkerish


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 27, 2018, 01:22:36 PM
Kind of stalkerish
Very stalkerish, but you never know!  :D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on February 27, 2018, 01:31:41 PM
I know he'll cost a bunch and is a mercenary, but I still hope we get him. He'd solve a few major problems. A starting NI who can play like an import, a ratio buster to allow us to use 4 import receivers and a fix at MLB where we need a better player.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 27, 2018, 01:58:54 PM
The most interesting clip from the "Winter Special" was MOS saying JSK is a WIL, and we have to have him on the field...  with Muamba on board, I can see that.  Without, unless they have someone other than Wild to step in, not so much. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BBRT on February 27, 2018, 02:06:56 PM
Ignore...he's a Rider fan. Might even be Migs.

Is Migs still around here? Thought he had exited stage right some time ago.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 27, 2018, 02:11:16 PM
Is Migs still around here? Thought he had exited stage right some time ago.

He shows up every couple a months under a new identity when he can get access to a new IP address.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: ModAdmin on February 27, 2018, 02:15:49 PM
Ignore...he's a Rider fan. Might even be Migs.

No.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 27, 2018, 02:16:50 PM
No.

Ok not Migs.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on February 27, 2018, 03:10:17 PM
Montreal is either go all in on there D. Or they forget about HM and try and get a QB.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 27, 2018, 03:17:16 PM
Montreal is either go all in on there D. Or they forget about HM and try and get a QB.


CFL @CFL

.@JF5x is taking in some of the best parts of Montreal culture.

Oh and he invited @7Bowman + @AlsLBJ58 for the fun🏒➡️ http://on.cfl.ca/aOp130iE25e


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXDbNc8XUAAOqHl.jpg)

Montreal has a QB...  never thrown a CFL pass, but...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: thunderNlightning on February 27, 2018, 04:29:37 PM
Multiple times a day, I just keep refreshing to see if we have any news that we signed him.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on February 27, 2018, 07:50:27 PM
So we probably don't have the cap space to sign Henoc to the amount he is probably expecting this year. However, would we able to make the contract more lucrative if we were to sign him for a 2-3 year deal at e.g. 180k this year, and 210k for 2019 and on? I know the cool thing is to sign one year deals, but this would be at least market value for Henoc and would avoid the FA frenzy, changing cities, teams, etc for what would probably not amount to more money than this.

You can argue that would put us in a cap situation for next year, but the way I see it, we are going all-in this year for a cup, and at the end of the year regardless of the result, we will have a number of expensive players going to FA (as always happens) who would otherwise want raises and we would need to replace them with ELC players anyway. Having a ratio-breaking, potentially all-star Canadian MLB locked in, even if expensive, is not a bad idea.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 27, 2018, 08:00:46 PM
So we probably don't have the cap space to sign Henoc to the amount he is probably expecting this year. However, would we able to make the contract more lucrative if we were to sign him for a 2-3 year deal at e.g. 180k this year, and 210k for 2019 and on? I know the cool thing is to sign one year deals, but this would be at least market value for Henoc and would avoid the FA frenzy, changing cities, teams, etc for what would probably not amount to more money than this.

You can argue that would put us in a cap situation for next year, but the way I see it, we are going all-in this year for a cup, and at the end of the year regardless of the result, we will have a number of expensive players going to FA (as always happens) who would otherwise want raises and we would need to replace them with ELC players anyway. Having a ratio-breaking, potentially all-star Canadian MLB locked in, even if expensive, is not a bad idea.

Heck if he will accept that, we should sign him to a 5 year million dollar deal....but the first year is only 150k....or even 1.5 million with the first year only 100k.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the 2nd. 3rd, 4th year of a contract mean zero to a player. You will never, ever, get a player to agree to way less than his market worth based on making it up in consecutive years. Just ask Weston Dressler how that works out. He and John Chick were one of very few players who actually did this....and all it did was get them released before the back loading came due.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on February 27, 2018, 08:05:51 PM
Heck if he will accept that, we should sign him to a 5 year million dollar deal....but the first year is only 150k....or even 1.5 million with the first year only 100k.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the 2nd. 3rd, 4th year of a contract mean zero to a player. You will never, ever, get a player to agree to way less than his market worth based on making it up in consecutive years. Just ask Weston Dressler how that works out.

Yeah, I guess without it guaranteed, it means little. You can make the argument that there's no guarantee you'd make it past TC in any situation, so why even sign a contact at all  :P

Henoc signed for good coin in Sask for 3 years, so I'd like to think that's good precedent that it would happen here too.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 27, 2018, 08:12:42 PM
Yeah, I guess without it guaranteed, it means little. You can make the argument that there's no guarantee you'd make it past TC in any situation, so why even sign a contact at all  :P

Henoc signed for good coin in Sask for 3 years, so I'd like to think that's good precedent that it would happen here too.

Except Walters has never used that tactic before, he tends to keep his promises.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on February 27, 2018, 08:34:13 PM
Except Walters has never used that tactic before, he tends to keep his promises.

Yep that also helps our case, and is one of the reasons we are able to attract FA at all. Walters and O'Shea are stand up dudes.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 27, 2018, 08:51:10 PM
Except Walters has never used that tactic before, he tends to keep his promises.

 Korey Banks and Kenny Stafford might argue that Walters breaks a promise or two.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bwiser on February 27, 2018, 09:43:07 PM
If the Bombers wanted to sign Muamba you could release Dressler to make cap space.I like Dressler but he is not a young player.He has had his fair share of injuries and you could find a cheaper option out of college or NFL cuts.Muamba as a starting National is a very valuable commodity


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on February 27, 2018, 09:54:43 PM
 In the best interest of their clubs, and managing the salary cap, every club breaks a promise or 2, it's the nature of the beast and the ugly side of the business.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on February 27, 2018, 10:10:05 PM
I think I would be dumping Flanders first.

As far as Stafford and Banks. Well Banks really didn't want to play here, and Stafford flat out didn't make the team. Much different then a MLB that had 85 tackles in 15-16 games.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 27, 2018, 10:20:34 PM
I think I would be dumping Flanders first.

As far as Stafford and Banks. Well Banks really didn't want to play here, and Stafford flat out didn't make the team. Much different then a MLB that had 85 tackles in 15-16 games.
As much as I hade to admit it, because I love what Flanders brings to the offense, I think you may be right. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: buckzumhoff on February 27, 2018, 10:36:55 PM
I would keep Flanders. You get rid of Flanders our offense is going to be very bland. Why get rid of a good player for a player that went to another team in the first place. Let him go to Montreal. I=m sure Hamilton and even Ottawa might take a shot at signing him. I think he should be favoring Montreal. Problem is Montreal doesn't have the money.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 27, 2018, 10:39:22 PM
I would keep Flanders. You get rid of Flanders our offense is going to be very bland. Why get rid of a good player for a player that went to another team in the first place. Let him go to Montreal. I=m sure Hamilton and even Ottawa might take a shot at signing hjim.
I agree but the way Lapo was talking last night, it sounds like Lafrance will be used in a lot of 2 RB sets.  I'm not sure there's room on the roster to dress 3 RBs each week...unless Flanders dresses as the 6th receiver.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: buckzumhoff on February 27, 2018, 10:52:47 PM
If we get him our defense should be one of the best. I think we have the money to sign him and keep Flanders.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: M.O.A.B. on February 27, 2018, 11:11:46 PM
The signing of Demski and LaFrance pushes Flanders outside of the projected active roster.

If Muamba signs, that might push Flanders out of the roster.

I like Flanders, but sometimes you have to make a sacrifice to better the team.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 27, 2018, 11:41:38 PM
If Demski is returning punts/kicks, that drops Lankford off, and leaves room for Flangers...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 28, 2018, 12:40:36 AM
If Demski is returning punts/kicks, that drops Lankford off, and leaves room for Flangers...

Unless they sign Mulumba or select another Natl. to start on D, there is simply no room in the ratio for Flanders to get on the field on the O side of the ball, as it looks now they will start 6 Natls. and 6 Imports.  It's unbalanced and it takes away a lot of ratio flexibility and options so I hope they come up with an adjustment soon, but as it stands the writing on the wall is looking pretty clear, for better or worse Demski replaces Flanders.  As it is, the only Imports Flanders could fill in directly for are Bowman, Adams or Dressler and that wouldn't make sense when they have bonafide receiver options waiting in the wings.

 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: M.O.A.B. on February 28, 2018, 02:56:27 AM
Unless they sign Mulumba Muamba or select another Natl. to start on D, there is simply no room in the ratio for Flanders to get on the field on the O side of the ball, as it looks now they will start 6 Natls. and 6 Imports.  It's unbalanced and it takes away a lot of ratio flexibility and options so I hope they come up with an adjustment soon, but as it stands the writing on the wall is looking pretty clear, for better or worse Demski replaces Flanders.  As it is, the only Imports Flanders could fill in directly for are Bowman, Adams or Dressler and that wouldn't make sense when they have bonafide receiver options waiting in the wings.

 

Mulumba is the DE that moved away from football

Muamba is the MLB w'ere trying to sign


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 28, 2018, 03:12:25 AM
Unless they sign Mulumba or select another Natl. to start on D, there is simply no room in the ratio for Flanders to get on the field on the O side of the ball, as it looks now they will start 6 Natls. and 6 Imports.  It's unbalanced and it takes away a lot of ratio flexibility and options so I hope they come up with an adjustment soon, but as it stands the writing on the wall is looking pretty clear, for better or worse Demski replaces Flanders.  As it is, the only Imports Flanders could fill in directly for are Bowman, Adams or Dressler and that wouldn't make sense when they have bonafide receiver options waiting in the wings.

 

Nothing to do with ratio...  Flanders spot on the roster as a DI can be opened up with the deletion of a DI returner...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 28, 2018, 03:29:54 AM
Nothing to do with ratio...  Flanders spot on the roster as a DI can be opened up with the deletion of a DI returner...

Sure, but how does he get on the field with only 6 Imports on the O. and Demski playing his position?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 28, 2018, 04:17:33 AM
Nothing to do with ratio...  Flanders spot on the roster as a DI can be opened up with the deletion of a DI returner...

Clearly you have no idea about our ratio or who our DI's are going to be.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on February 28, 2018, 11:22:33 AM
Clearly you have no idea about our ratio or who our DI's are going to be.

Last year, one of our DI's for most of the season was Lankford, backup SB and PR/KR.

If Demski or someone else is the PR/KR, then Flanders can take Lankford's spot as backup SB.

Getting him onto the field is a different question.  Keeping him on the roster, though, not difficult.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 28, 2018, 12:22:25 PM
The signing of Demski and LaFrance pushes Flanders outside of the projected active roster.

If Muamba signs, that might push Flanders out of the roster.

I like Flanders, but sometimes you have to make a sacrifice to better the team.

If Muamba signs it makes room for Flanders, not the other way around.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 28, 2018, 12:24:18 PM
Last year, one of our DI's for most of the season was Lankford, backup SB and PR/KR.

If Demski or someone else is the PR/KR, then Flanders can take Lankford's spot as backup SB.

Getting him onto the field is a different question.  Keeping him on the roster, though, not difficult.

No use dressing a guy we can't get onto the field unless he's going to contribute on teams.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on February 28, 2018, 12:42:48 PM
If Muamba signs it makes room for Flanders, not the other way around.

If Muamba signs, that will allow them to go with 4 american receivers.  Given how the are planning to use Demski, i am thinking that means they will sit Coates in favour of LDW or a similar WR.

They could dress Flanders as a DI on offence, and I guess you could get him on the field in certain packages, but I have a hard time seeing how he is a DI priority.  Medlock is one DI, we typically use another at DE.  Fogg will be returner/dimeback.  I would normally expect one of Wild or Santos-Knox to be a DI behind Muamba, but that?s not possible if you dress Flanders.

Would we sit Wild to dress Flanders?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 28, 2018, 12:54:01 PM
If Muamba signs, that will allow them to go with 4 american receivers.  Given how the are planning to use Demski, i am thinking that means they will sit Coates in favour of LDW or a similar WR.

They could dress Flanders as a DI on offence, and I guess you could get him on the field in certain packages, but I have a hard time seeing how he is a DI priority.  Medlock is one DI, we typically use another at DE.  Fogg will be returner/dimeback.  I would normally expect one of Wild or Santos-Knox to be a DI behind Muamba, but that?s not possible if you dress Flanders.

Would we sit Wild to dress Flanders?

I would think that if we sign Muamba it may push Wild or JSK to the 2 man reserve. We have Briggs as an emergency LBer if need be. That is assuming, of course, we still have plans for Flanders on offence. Without Muamba, I don't see how we play Flanders even if we could dress him, with Muamba we have a tough choice to make on dressing him but if we do we can easily get him on the field.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on February 28, 2018, 01:03:16 PM
I would think that if we sign Muamba it may push Wild or JSK to the 2 man reserve. We have Briggs as an emergency LBer if need be. That is assuming, of course, we still have plans for Flanders on offence. Without Muamba, I don't see how we play Flanders even if we could dress him, with Muamba we have a tough choice to make on dressing him but if we do we can easily get him on the field.

I would have assumed Wild would be a DI since he's an ST demon and "zero"-drop-off backup at WIL or MLB if need be.

Lots of speculation and expectations that differ on this board. Sure will be interesting to see what happens on the DC come Game 1.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 28, 2018, 01:16:37 PM
I would have assumed Wild would be a DI since he's an ST demon and "zero"-drop-off backup at WIL or MLB if need be.

Lots of speculation and expectations that differ on this board. Sure will be interesting to see what happens on the DC come Game 1.
Yes lots of valid points here.  As much as I love Flanders, I can't see us rostering a 3rd RB over Wild, unless Flanders dresses as the backup American receiver. 

I agree with another poster that it is unlikely Lankford is on the roster this year. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on February 28, 2018, 01:19:54 PM
a couple of injuries and all the speculation changes anyways...at this stage its just fun to talk and figure out the moving pieces but in reality there is going to be surprises out of camp and then the nicks and injuries always require adjusting.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on February 28, 2018, 02:11:00 PM
Last year, one of our DI's for most of the season was Lankford, backup SB and PR/KR.

If Demski or someone else is the PR/KR, then Flanders can take Lankford's spot as backup SB.

Getting him onto the field is a different question.  Keeping him on the roster, though, not difficult.

Last year we had a Canadian starting at MLB. So far this year we do not.  Last year we started 4 import receivers of which Flanders was one while another receiver was often the DI.

This year we don't have 4 starting imports which would allow Flanders on the 44 AR. We may keep him but I think will be hard pressed to have him on the game day roster.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 28, 2018, 02:28:44 PM
I would have assumed Wild would be a DI since he's an ST demon and "zero"-drop-off backup at WIL or MLB if need be.

Lots of speculation and expectations that differ on this board. Sure will be interesting to see what happens on the DC come Game 1.

Although Walters mentioned earlier that he would like to cut down on the LB rotation I can't really see it, possibly if they sign Muamba they would be able to accomplish this but without Henoc, Wild will still get plenty of reps at both WIL and MLB.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 28, 2018, 02:56:01 PM
Although Walters mentioned earlier that he would like to cut down on the LB rotation I can't really see it, possibly if they sign Muamba they would be able to accomplish this but without Henoc, Wild will still get plenty of reps at both WIL and MLB.
O'Shea loves Wild on special teams so I can't see any scenario where Wild isn't on the game day roster. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Jesse on February 28, 2018, 03:07:09 PM
O'Shea loves Wild on special teams so I can't see any scenario where Wild isn't on the game day roster. 

He definitely will be, but I think there's a high chance he misses a handful of games as well, so what are the plans for then?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on February 28, 2018, 03:09:03 PM
He definitely will be, but I think there's a high chance he misses a handful of games as well, so what are the plans for then?
If he's injured that's a different story.  Maybe that then allows Flanders to get on the roster? 

We are right now discussing the ideal roster, but as mentioned earlier, it will change week-to-week. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on February 28, 2018, 03:34:24 PM
Lafrance in essence replaces the roster spot of Normand...and will see more touches than Normand did last year and would come in most likely in the spot of one of the 2 national receivers if we go that route..Flanders made the roster last year with Normand in the lineup and will again this year as well. Lankford is the odd man out as Demski and Fogg can return...as can Drew W and Flanders returns kicks too...so Lafrances signing in no way will push Flanders off the roster...

If we go 2 national receivers (which I hope we don't as it makes us weaker) then Flanders will be a DI most likely...If we get that ratio flex with a Muamba signing then most likely Flanders doesn't have to be a DI.

If we go that 2 national route having to have 6 Nationals on offence at any time will not allow us to throw Harris..Flanders..Adams..Bowman..Dressler on the field all together...and truthfully using this offensive set with Lafrance in place of Flanders will be far less effective



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on February 28, 2018, 03:58:14 PM
a couple of injuries and all the speculation changes anyways...at this stage its just fun to talk and figure out the moving pieces but in reality there is going to be surprises out of camp and then the nicks and injuries always require adjusting.
Yep....exactly....there are always injuries in TC and last year we stayed relatively healthy until late in the season when we lost so many blue chip guys....we have some good depth in some areas except LBs.   Signing HM will make us a better team with even more flexibility with regard to ratio.  To get to the Cup you need depth and some luck with injuries....oh and good players with a good QB running the show...which we have. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 28, 2018, 04:24:07 PM
Lafrance in essence replaces the roster spot of Normand...and will see more touches than Normand did last year and would come in most likely in the spot of one of the 2 national receivers if we go that route..Flanders made the roster last year with Normand in the lineup and will again this year as well. Lankford is the odd man out as Demski and Fogg can return...as can Drew W and Flanders returns kicks too...so Lafrances signing in no way will push Flanders off the roster...

If we go 2 national receivers (which I hope we don't as it makes us weaker) then Flanders will be a DI most likely...If we get that ratio flex with a Muamba signing then most likely Flanders doesn't have to be a DI.

If we go that 2 national route having to have 6 Nationals on offence at any time will not allow us to throw Harris..Flanders..Adams..Bowman..Dressler on the field all together...and truthfully using this offensive set with Lafrance in place of Flanders will be far less effective



For sure. Rostering Flanders won't be a problem with or without Muamba if we don't DI a returner. I'm just not liking that we will be very limited in getting him on the field without taking Dressler or Bowman off.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on February 28, 2018, 04:27:46 PM
Exactly...thats why the flip to 2 nationals on defense is a real key to optimum success this year.
We have more than adequate in game back-ups and rotational pieces on defense to run with 2 Nationals and most likely a lot of times will have 3 on the field anyway.

I would assume/hope management sees this and is doing whatever needs to be done to get this done


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: M.O.A.B. on February 28, 2018, 04:58:33 PM
So no Muamba? Nothing comes out of the lavish dinner served for him in 2 nights?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on February 28, 2018, 05:11:18 PM
So no Muamba? Nothing comes out of the lavish dinner served for him in 2 nights?

well until he signs somewhere else I don't think the pursuit of him or the chances of us getting him stop..they could be negotiating right now for all we know.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Darwinismyhomeboy on February 28, 2018, 06:02:57 PM
So no Muamba? Nothing comes out of the lavish dinner served for him in 2 nights?

His agent will drag it out till the last possible minute hoping to squeeze every dime out of someone.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: sweep the leg on February 28, 2018, 06:25:44 PM
For sure. Rostering Flanders won't be a problem with or without Muamba if we don't DI a returner. I'm just not liking that we will be very limited in getting him on the field without taking Dressler or Bowman off.

I don't know. I think we've always di'ed a db, Wild & Roh seem likely to both be on the roster, and Medlock. That's four without Flanders or a returner, unless the returner is also a db.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on February 28, 2018, 06:28:51 PM
I don't know. I think we've always di'ed a db, Wild & Roh seem likely to both be on the roster, and Medlock. That's four without Flanders or a returner, unless the returner is also a db.



Was thinking Fogg and Demski handling kickoffs....or not doing the db thing at all and using Morgan in that role. I know, it's a tough one in regards to Flanders.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on February 28, 2018, 06:33:33 PM
well until he signs somewhere else I don't think the pursuit of him or the chances of us getting him stop..they could be negotiating right now for all we know.

Yeah but....from a fan perspective dying for news, the waiting is getting old! C'mon, give us something to chew on!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on February 28, 2018, 06:40:00 PM
This thread is Kevin Glenn like  ;)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bustamente on March 01, 2018, 01:34:42 AM
Did Muamba sneak out of town and not say good-bye


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Bombers9256 on March 01, 2018, 04:45:58 AM
For what it's worth check out his Twitter account. He just replied to a Bomber fan that he was trying to make something happen with the Bombers. At least that's how I read it. I don't know how to embed it so here's the link.

https://twitter.com/henocmuamba/status/969061327422373889?s=12


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Leroy on March 01, 2018, 06:16:24 AM
For what it's worth check out his Twitter account. He just replied to a Bomber fan that he was trying to make something happen with the Bombers. At least that's how I read it. I don't know how to embed it so here's the link.

https://twitter.com/henocmuamba/status/969061327422373889?s=12

Came to say the same thing.

Doubt he says that if it was not very close to being a done deal.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 01, 2018, 02:58:32 PM
It does prove negotiations are underway and that the "magical mystery tour" some claim he was on is fiction. He didn't come here just for the air miles and a steak dinner.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 01, 2018, 03:19:15 PM
It does prove negotiations are underway and that the "magical mystery tour" some claim he was on is fiction. He didn't come here just for the air miles and a steak dinner.

Agent Hardaway probably did not attend the meeting with Walters so it's understandable yet frustrating that Muamba could not come to a decision on his own at the conclusion of the meeting.  I'm sure the numbers were already on the table and they were mostly discussing football related issues.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: thunderNlightning on March 01, 2018, 05:02:05 PM
Sounds like we are the favourites to get HM

https://www.cfl.ca/2018/02/28/checking-bombers-favourite-henoc/

? With the Bombers potentially starting two receivers on offence, 2017 supplemental pick Drew Wolitarsky could push for a starting role this training camp (Darrin Bauming, TSN 1290).

? According to Justin Dunk, the Bombers are the favourite to land Henoc Muamba following a recent visit from the free agent linebacker (Justin Dunk, 3 Down Nation).

? Nothing is official yet, but Mike O?Shea says he?s excited about the ratio flexibility Muamba would bring to the Bombers on both sides of the ball (Bob Irving, CJOB).


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on March 01, 2018, 06:00:47 PM
HM will get a lot of perks from the business owners in Winnipeg if he signs here. Winnipeg loves there athletes.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 01, 2018, 06:00:57 PM
Agent Hardaway probably did not attend the meeting with Walters so it's understandable yet frustrating that Muamba could not come to a decision on his own at the conclusion of the meeting.  I'm sure the numbers were already on the table and they were mostly discussing football related issues.

This is a big decision for Muamba and there really is no rush for him to make it for him or the Bombers.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 01, 2018, 06:03:31 PM
HM will get a lot of perks from the business owners in Winnipeg if he signs here. Winnipeg loves there athletes.

He will have to do some work to become the communities darling... not saying he will have a Kane like infamy, but a lot of us are not impressed with the his antics to date, especially after his success here had opened those doors for him.

Will he be able to win everyone over?  Sure, if he comes,. plays well, is active in the community, definitely he can.  BUt he's not getting the key to the city just by signing a one year deal.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on March 01, 2018, 06:09:13 PM
Well I know of one dealership that will be giving a petty nice SUV to drive if he becomes a bomber.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 01, 2018, 06:09:32 PM
He will have to do some work to become the communities darling... not saying he will have a Kane like infamy, but a lot of us are not impressed with the his antics to date, especially after his success here had opened those doors for him.

Will he be able to win everyone over?  Sure, if he comes,. plays well, is active in the community, definitely he can.  BUt he's not getting the key to the city just by signing a one year deal.

You overestimate the amount of animosity there is towards Henoc. He will sign here and be embraced immediately by most of the fan base.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 01, 2018, 06:17:52 PM
Sounds like we are the favourites to get HM

https://www.cfl.ca/2018/02/28/checking-bombers-favourite-henoc/

? With the Bombers potentially starting two receivers on offence, 2017 supplemental pick Drew Wolitarsky could push for a starting role this training camp (Darrin Bauming, TSN 1290).

? According to Justin Dunk, the Bombers are the favourite to land Henoc Muamba following a recent visit from the free agent linebacker (Justin Dunk, 3 Down Nation).

? Nothing is official yet, but Mike O?Shea says he?s excited about the ratio flexibility Muamba would bring to the Bombers on both sides of the ball (Bob Irving, CJOB).
sounds well within the realm of possibility....crossing all appendages!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bluengold204 on March 01, 2018, 06:22:24 PM
You overestimate the amount of animosity there is towards Henoc. He will sign here and be embraced immediately by most of the fan base.

Yup, I personally have no issue with him and his 'antics'


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 01, 2018, 06:27:45 PM
Yup, I personally have no issue with him and his 'antics'
I like his ?antics? on the field of play....I hope we can get him for 2-3 years but with the new CBA about to expire I can understand all these one year deals.   


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 01, 2018, 06:36:05 PM
Yup, I personally have no issue with him and his 'antics'

I wasn't impressed by the magical mystery tour he did upon his return from the NFL, however, I don't see any "antics" on his part this time. He just wants to make the right decision for him and wants to take his time doing it. He's not stringing anyone along of asking for sealed bids.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 01, 2018, 06:37:11 PM
This is a big decision for Muamba and there really is no rush for him to make it for him or the Bombers.

It's not rocket science either. He's probably had the offers he's going to get. Might be a bit of negotiation still going on but it's not like he has 32 NFL teams bidding for his services.

There is a RUSH to some degree since the bidders will want to move on one way or another. That could mean still signing other free agents at other positions or using it to extend some players.

Money available today is not necessarily still here tomorrow or a day before TC. Teams will scout and sign other players for open spots.

I suppose it could even alter the way a team decides to draft. While they might go BPA they might look at specific areas needed to improve depth if players are closely ranked.

I'm not aware of any top LB's that might be considered but I think my point has some merit.

I hope he signs but he has had enough time to decide where is best for him and now be in final negotiation stages. Whether that's with us or elsewhere is the question.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on March 01, 2018, 07:47:51 PM
Even know I am not his biggest fan due to his me me me attitude he portrays. I would like him here because of the aforementioned ratio flexibility which we all know is a great thing to have.

Go Walters close another deal in your favorite place, the steaming stadium sauna but don't break it again by pouring to much water on those rocks. :)

Watch him dangle himself out there only to sign with Montreal. Fool me twice?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 01, 2018, 07:49:13 PM

Go Walters close another deal in your favorite place, the steaming stadium sauna but don't break it again by pouring to much water on those rocks. :)


 What ???


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Darwinismyhomeboy on March 01, 2018, 07:52:56 PM
I wasn't impressed by the magical mystery tour he did upon his return from the NFL, however, I don't see any "antics" on his part this time. He just wants to make the right decision for him and wants to take his time doing it. He's not stringing anyone along of asking for sealed bids.

^ this.  Last time it was like he was a politician kissing babies or something.  Now it's just getting all his ducks in line properly.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 01, 2018, 08:01:50 PM
^ this.  Last time it was like he was a politician kissing babies or something.  Now it's just getting all his ducks in line properly.

I agree, but you can see why some people might feel that way after setting the precedent. If another player went to two cities for a steak and then took some time to think about their offers, it would never be in the news unless they had done a Tour de League before.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bluengold204 on March 01, 2018, 08:11:58 PM
I agree, but you can see why some people might feel that way after setting the precedent. If another player went to two cities for a steak and then took some time to think about their offers, it would never be in the news unless they had done a Tour de League before.

Still not sure what the difference is, first time around he was looking for the best deal, this time around hes doing the same thing just there is less teams interested?

Also there is nothing wrong with the guy trying to get the best deal that suits him.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 01, 2018, 08:20:47 PM
Still not sure what the difference is, first time around he was looking for the best deal, this time around hes doing the same thing just there is less teams interested?

Also there is nothing wrong with the guy trying to get the best deal that suits him.

Like I said, I agree, but the optics are not good based on the precedent. The average onlooker might see this as the same thing, even though it isn't.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue girl on March 01, 2018, 08:27:28 PM
I have no problem with him trying to get the best deal possible. After all a football player's career isn't very long and he's already had two teams release him. As for his "antics" I'm not really sure what you mean. I don't believe that he was a bad presence in the locker room but if Walters, Miller and O'Shea still want to sign him after meeting with him then that's good enough for me.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: buckzumhoff on March 01, 2018, 09:22:44 PM
Theres better linebackers out there. Muamba isn't a linebacker who gets many sacks as far as I know. I know he didn't do much here in Winnipeg. And Saskatchewan I didn't think he made a big difference there. I think they have Miles who could do the same, or look for an American at that position. We have lots of Canadians starting on offense .


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 01, 2018, 09:29:07 PM
Theres better linebackers out there. Muamba isn't a linebacker who gets many sacks as far as I know. I know he didn't do much here in Winnipeg. And Saskatchewan I didn't think he made a big difference there. I think they have Miles who could do the same, or look for an American at that position. We have lots of Canadians starting on offense .
We are projected to start 6 Canadians on offense and 1 on D.  Muamba helps balance that out to 5-2, which will provide a lot more roster flexibility. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: thunderNlightning on March 01, 2018, 09:45:25 PM
Theres better linebackers out there. Muamba isn't a linebacker who gets many sacks as far as I know. I know he didn't do much here in Winnipeg. And Saskatchewan I didn't think he made a big difference there. I think they have Miles who could do the same, or look for an American at that position. We have lots of Canadians starting on offense .

And how has scouting for a stud mlb worked out for us lately? And regardless he is leaps and bounds better then what we have had at that position since he left.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 01, 2018, 09:53:33 PM
And who?s better than Muamba...Solo, Dean. Who else?  Maybe Singleton...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 01, 2018, 11:25:51 PM
Theres better linebackers out there. Muamba isn't a linebacker who gets many sacks as far as I know. I know he didn't do much here in Winnipeg. And Saskatchewan I didn't think he made a big difference there. I think they have Miles who could do the same, or look for an American at that position. We have lots of Canadians starting on offense .

Huge undersell. Muamba is one of the best available. That's not even mentioning what he does for our ratio. I'm also not so concerned about sacks from our MLB. Those will come from Ok and Jeffcoat. If you really need a stat, it's tackles for Muamba's position.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on March 01, 2018, 11:26:29 PM
Muamba and Singleton are the top two National MLB's in the CFL.....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on March 02, 2018, 12:05:05 AM
What ???

He?s known for that. He breaks it monthly. Insider info there kids


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on March 02, 2018, 12:06:49 AM
Muamba and Singleton are the top two National MLB's in the CFL.....

I would our Hurl there to


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on March 02, 2018, 02:32:32 AM
Muamba can stop the run between the tackles and also pick up the back out of the backfield.  Obviously a M!B can't run downfield with a back.  No MLB can.  I thought Muamba was good at that.
The ability to stop the run, allows the rest of the Defence to do all kinds of things to mess with the O.

Since he left it was like we were playing a man short


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: RyGuy13 on March 02, 2018, 04:13:17 AM
Muamba can stop the run between the tackles and also pick up the back out of the backfield.  Obviously a M!B can't run downfield with a back.  No MLB can.  I thought Muamba was good at that.
The ability to stop the run, allows the rest of the Defence to do all kinds of things to mess with the O.

Since he left it was like we were playing a man short

I also remember him being very aggressive at ripping the football out and forced quite a few fumbles . Fact of all this is he would take our defence to another level while carrying the right passport. We've been in need of a MLB ever since he left to the NFL. I know people are saying don't sign him, go scout an American and it'll be cheaper. True, but that hasn't gone too well since Muamba. We've had the likes of Ejiro Kuale, Khalil Bass, Ian Wild, and how can I forget.. Sam Hurl. Quality is quality and that's exactly what Henoc Muamba is. Does he make the defence better? Yes. Does he make our National depth one of (if not) the best in the league? Yes. Based on Walters moves before and during FA, I'd say we're going all in this year to end the drought. Henoc Muamba can and would help get that much closer to accomplishing this.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 02, 2018, 12:36:52 PM
Henoc got off to a rough start the first third of the season last year with the Riders. However, over the final 2/3 of the season he was outstanding. I can't believe the Priders saying he was adequate at best. Next to Jefferson, he was easily there next best player on defence. When he got rolling last year, the Riders defence became one of the best in the league.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 02, 2018, 01:21:26 PM
Henoc got off to a rough start the first third of the season last year with the Riders. However, over the final 2/3 of the season he was outstanding. I can't believe the Priders saying he was adequate at best. Next to Jefferson, he was easily there next best player on defence. When he got rolling last year, the Riders defence became one of the best in the league.

I remember watching a few Rider games towards the end of last year, including their playoff games. At first I was laughing in my head about how he probably sucks now, and good riddance, just because I was mad he left us and didn't come back. Then I watched him make play after play and realized at this point he picked up where he left off with us right before he left for the NFL- elite. I continued to be mad watching him do well with the Riders, since I was jealous, but this time fully believed he was the Henoc I remembered in 2013.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 02, 2018, 01:41:53 PM
He will have to do some work to become the communities darling... not saying he will have a Kane like infamy, but a lot of us are not impressed with the his antics to date, especially after his success here had opened those doors for him.

Will he be able to win everyone over?  Sure, if he comes,. plays well, is active in the community, definitely he can.  BUt he's not getting the key to the city just by signing a one year deal.

What an absolutely ridiculous post.

You overestimate the amount of animosity there is towards Henoc. He will sign here and be embraced immediately by most of the fan base.

This. Sports are all about "what have you done for me lately" and in the event Muamba signs here, that'll be all that matters.

I wasn't impressed by the magical mystery tour he did upon his return from the NFL, however, I don't see any "antics" on his part this time. He just wants to make the right decision for him and wants to take his time doing it. He's not stringing anyone along of asking for sealed bids.

I don't think anybody was at the time. That was nearly three years, though.

I agree completely with you here.

I remember watching a few Rider games towards the end of last year, including their playoff games. At first I was laughing in my head about how he probably sucks now, and good riddance, just because I was mad he left us and didn't come back. Then I watched him make play after play and realized at this point he picked up where he left off with us right before he left for the NFL- elite. I continued to be mad watching him do well with the Riders, since I was jealous, but this time fully believed he was the Henoc I remembered in 2013.

Agreed. Muamba had a pretty strong 2017 season and was particularly excellent later in the season and in the playoffs.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 02, 2018, 03:14:11 PM
He came in last year not in CFL shape and it showed...last half of the season he was back to where he was and put up great numbers...if he had even had a average first half he would have been close to if not over 100 tackles and been in the Riders MODP discussion.

He is being talked about negatively there only because that's what those smucks do there and once you leave there voluntarily..or are dumped you become useless...the fact there is strong indication he could sign here makes him even more useless in their eyes...

If we land him..along with our other work done this off-season I can't see why Winnipeg can't be the team considered right now to come out of the West as the Grey Cup champs...Sign him now...run your TC and decide then if and what needs to be released to make it work SMS wise, that is if anything has to be done


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 02, 2018, 03:19:01 PM
if Dressler hits the 6 game once next year, and nothing against him, that creates almost $60K of cap room.... sign him!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Maudie fingerjammer on March 02, 2018, 06:08:16 PM
The problem with having a hardass negotiator crafting your contract is, the next time Walters is likely to say ?was it worth it?? And ?do I want to go thru this again??


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 02, 2018, 08:22:04 PM
\_(ツ)_/


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue girl on March 03, 2018, 09:21:46 PM
Please Henoc sign somewhere soon if only to get us away from these pizza and burger joint comparisons.   ;D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on March 04, 2018, 12:20:30 AM
Please Henoc sign somewhere soon if only to get us away from these pizza and burger joint comparisons.   ;D

If he does sign with us what will the next topic be around here ?.....I guess some more ratio discussions.......but other than that I suppose it's just planning the parade route...😃


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BBRT on March 04, 2018, 12:21:21 AM
Please Henoc sign somewhere soon if only to get us away from these pizza and burger joint comparisons.   ;D

That link has moved - however two comments

Comment Number One - yes Please Henoc please sign soon with the Big Blue
Comment Number two - count your blessing that you live in the Peg and have access to all the great spots for pizza and burgers - I live in Calgary and no where near as lucky.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: ModAdmin on March 04, 2018, 03:10:07 AM
Now let's keep the thread to the Muamba discussion.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on March 04, 2018, 04:26:25 AM
I am speculating that the Bombers are holding on to the Muamba signing for as long as they can..so as to get the most media attention they can........


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on March 04, 2018, 06:17:13 AM
Well they have better have signed someone.i am fine with it to,wait till combine week


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 04, 2018, 09:36:14 AM
This waiting game is hard to take.....we are starting to exhaust all the rumours and speculation as to what is actually going down.....tick tock....this from TSN:

Weeks after Winnipeg Blue Bombers general manager Kyle Walters said he was trying to bring back Henoc Muamba, the 29-year-old national linebacker implied on Twitter he too was trying to get a deal done to return to the team he played for to start his CFL career.

Replying to a user that posted he was impatiently searching for news that Muamba is back with the Blue Bombers, the six-year CFL veteran replied he was trying to make it happen.

With both team and player seemingly wanting to get a deal done, it is unclear what, if anything, is holding up an announcement.

Muamba became a free agent on the first day of free agency when the Saskatchewan Roughriders released him after two seasons. The ratio-breaking defender finished last season with 82 tackles and two interceptions in 17 regular season games.

Drafted first overall by the Bombers in 2011, Muamba spent the first three years of his CFL career in Winnipeg before taking a shot down south with the NFL's Indianapolis Colts. Muamba spent a year with the Colts before returning to the CFL, signing with the Montreal Alouettes for the remainder of the 2015 season and then the Roughriders for the past three. He signed with the Dallas Cowboys between his stints in Montreal and Saskatchewan, but was cut by the club at the end of their training camp.

In 73 career regular season games in the CFL, Muamba has 267 tackles, six sacks, and four interceptions.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on March 04, 2018, 12:19:06 PM
You could have been a burlesque dancer. Lol!
Or a Heinz Katsup ad designer.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Bombers9256 on March 04, 2018, 02:33:01 PM
And now on Twitter he just replied to a BC fan wanting him to play in Vancouver: "It?s an option to consider for sure! And it isn?t an easy decision to say the least." Hopefully  he's just being polite?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on March 04, 2018, 03:02:09 PM
Same old BS


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue72 on March 04, 2018, 03:30:42 PM
Is there any Singleton type of linebackers in the combine or Canadian draft this year, then we could move on.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 04, 2018, 03:31:40 PM
Ya, way too much drama here, either you want to play football or you don't. Seeing as this is taking so long, it appears his price tag is too high or else someone would have signed him. Move on already


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue72 on March 04, 2018, 03:38:30 PM
There are 7 LB in the combine this year does anyone know if they are MLB type?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 04, 2018, 03:45:04 PM
So, everyone on this board and in Winnipeg thinks that what Muamba and his agent are doing is normal, reasonable and fair, right?  Sentiment in the last few posts excepted...

After he signs somewhere, no doubt that the majority of that team's fans will embrace him, especially if he performs on the field to his capabilities.  

Some of the fans will remember, however, the process.  

Just because he plays for your team, doesn't mean you have to adore that player.  I almost bought a #10/Muamba jersey in 2013.  I can guarantee, regardless his performance onn teh field, that I would never consider buying a #10/Muamba jersey, even if it was in Value Village for $10. I might pay $10 for a 9/Kane jersey, but not a 10/Muamba.

Just one fan's opinion. He has killed his brand for this fan.  And, as a fan, I am allowed to cheer for whomever I want.  


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 04, 2018, 05:31:01 PM
I agree 1000%, not just 100 %. If this guy wanted to be here, he'd have signed already, and he hasn't. Combine this with his classless parade of the CFL a few years ago, and him leaving Winnipeg out of that parade, has forever soured me on this guy. Couldn't care less if he signed here, in fact, I hope he doesn't sign here, as I m right beside you in not cheering for this guy!!!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 04, 2018, 05:40:55 PM
Not saying I won't appreciate his contribution during the game, just that his off field antics do not impress me, so I would not support his brand off the field.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: KINGCHARLES on March 04, 2018, 06:11:08 PM
So, everyone on this board and in Winnipeg thinks that what Muamba and his agent are doing is normal, reasonable and fair, right?  Sentiment in the last few posts excepted...

After he signs somewhere, no doubt that the majority of that team's fans will embrace him, especially if he performs on the field to his capabilities.  

Some of the fans will remember, however, the process.  

Just because he plays for your team, doesn't mean you have to adore that player.  I almost bought a #10/Muamba jersey in 2013.  I can guarantee, regardless his performance onn teh field, that I would never consider buying a #10/Muamba jersey, even if it was in Value Village for $10. I might pay $10 for a 9/Kane jersey, but not a 10/Muamba.

Just one fan's opinion. He has killed his brand for this fan.  And, as a fan, I am allowed to cheer for whomever I want.  

I love the player but hate the attitude that developed because of playing 1 year in the NFL. I don't care about careers being cut short due to injuries that can happen to us regular folk too. I don't like this touring and negotiating his rights to the highest bidder. These guys are getting paid to do something they love for 6 months a year. Can't these guys get a Full-time job in the offseason and part-time during the season. I know guys like Bob Cameron had his home reno business all year round, Obby Khan I believe worked at Pembina Visions part time during the season(might have been full time in the off season only) Hell some guys in the NFL like New England Patriots Joe Cardona is a full-time U.S. Navy reserve officer all year long. in the NFL they have to be committed to the team for like 8 hours a day 5 days a week plus game day.

Being professional football players too it would be super easy for them to land a part-time or full-time gig anywhere within the city. But really even if you are a rookie you are getting $55,000/ year which is still extremely good for 6 months a year.

Me and my wife have a combined income of between $75,000-$115,000/year (my income makes up 75% of our income), we have 1 kid and have a pretty decent lifestyle. Thing is I work an average of 50 hrs/week 52 weeks a year in the transportation industry, I could blow out an ACL and be off regular duties for 6-8 months on any given day of the week. if I go on light duties through work I'm only getting 40 hours a week. If I had to do short or long term disability I would only get 66% of 40 hours a week  before taxes. A long term injury would mean my family would make $50-75,000/year. We would still make things work off that income level so this is why have no sympathy for any professional athelete anywhere.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on March 04, 2018, 06:18:53 PM
I don't care how long Mr Muamba takes to make his decisions. It's his life and his career.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 04, 2018, 06:23:17 PM
My goodness it isn?t like training camp starts tomorrow...to call choosing a team that is right for him ?antics? is beyond belief. Players have to look after themselves.  He could be trying to get a bidding war going, he could be negotiating his on field performance numbers, he could just be contemplating the offers he has with his agent and financial advisor...in the grand scheme of things one or two weeks doesn?t really make a huge difference.

His brand??  What does that even mean??  He is a football player that will be part of a team - he will contribute to that team in a positive way...fans will cheer when he tackles a rb for a lose or sacks the QB..


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: thunderNlightning on March 04, 2018, 06:42:10 PM
My goodness it isn?t like training camp starts tomorrow...to call choosing a team that is right for him ?antics? is beyond belief. Players have to look after themselves.  He could be trying to get a bidding war going, he could be negotiating his on field performance numbers, he could just be contemplating the offers he has with his agent and financial advisor...in the grand scheme of things one or two weeks doesn?t really make a huge difference.

His brand??  What does that even mean??  He is a football player that will be part of a team - he will contribute to that team in a positive way...fans will cheer when he tackles a rb for a lose or sacks the QB..

Yeah, I can see these fans now after he forces a fumble that leads to a game winning TD and they are dissapointed and upset with him.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on March 04, 2018, 06:49:58 PM
Well 27 years of abusive stupid management will do that to us! Lol!
Yeah I am sick of waiting also.  Either sign it, or bugger  off.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on March 04, 2018, 07:04:57 PM
My goodness it isn?t like training camp starts tomorrow...to call choosing a team that is right for him ?antics? is beyond belief. Players have to look after themselves.  He could be trying to get a bidding war going, he could be negotiating his on field performance numbers, he could just be contemplating the offers he has with his agent and financial advisor...in the grand scheme of things one or two weeks doesn?t really make a huge difference.

His brand??  What does that even mean??  He is a football player that will be part of a team - he will contribute to that team in a positive way...fans will cheer when he tackles a rb for a lose or sacks the QB..

I will have more info for all of you after tomorrow, as he is coming to my place for the best pizza in Winnipeg. Guy likes to be wined and dined.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 04, 2018, 08:00:06 PM
What player doesn't?? All players want to go to places their wanted, just ask Lafrance, Demski and Bowman. But it works both ways, we want players who WANT to be here, and I don't get that from HM, in fact I get the opposite.

The fact of the matter is, he was kicked to the curb by the Rough Rides, and there's only a couple of teams interested. Sooner or later all teams will find themselves a MLB, and I hope we are one of them soon, and we move on from this drama queen as soon as possible. In fact, I hope we don't sign him, and I hope he goes to Montreal and suffers there.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 04, 2018, 08:37:27 PM
Compare his antics to Wild.  Wild came to the Bombers and said "I'll take whatever you think is fair, I want to be on this team, its going to be a winner".

That's a guy who's jersey you buy. 

Not the one who is looking out only for #1... 

There is no better fit in the league for him, no better opportunity for him to win.  Guys like Durant, Bowman, Demski, Fenner, Roh all had options, probably for more money, but chose Winnipeg.  Guys like Bryant, Medlock, Dressler, Randle, Leggett, Nevis all had an option to go elsewhere, possibly for more money, but chose to stay here.

This team is built of players who are here for the team, for the culture that has been built, for the coaching staff, for the fans... 

I don't remember the last time a player said "Winnipeg's offer was for more money, so I came here."  Almost every signing, the player says they could have made more elsewhere...

This is the CFL.  Muamba's antics will get him some plane rides and some free dinners.  Will it actually net him more cash?  Maybe.  His last two kicks at that can have come up short.  Had he come directly back to Winnipeg the first time, he'd probably be our second highest paid player, and a fan favourite.  But he didn't, and insulted the fans of the teams he didn't choose, which has been us, twice...

That's the bed he's sleeping in now...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: thunderNlightning on March 04, 2018, 08:41:57 PM
Compare his antics to Wild.  Wild came to the Bombers and said "I'll take whatever you think is fair, I want to be on this team, its going to be a winner".

That's a guy who's jersey you buy. 

Not the one who is looking out only for #1... 

There is no better fit in the league for him, no better opportunity for him to win.  Guys like Durant, Bowman, Demski, Fenner, Roh all had options, probably for more money, but chose Winnipeg.  Guys like Bryant, Medlock, Dressler, Randle, Leggett, Nevis all had an option to go elsewhere, possibly for more money, but chose to stay here.

This team is built of players who are here for the team, for the culture that has been built, for the coaching staff, for the fans... 

I don't remember the last time a player said "Winnipeg's offer was for more money, so I came here."  Almost every signing, the player says they could have made more elsewhere...

This is the CFL.  Muamba's antics will get him some plane rides and some free dinners.  Will it actually net him more cash?  Maybe.  His last two kicks at that can have come up short.  Had he come directly back to Winnipeg the first time, he'd probably be our second highest paid player, and a fan favourite.  But he didn't, and insulted the fans of the teams he didn't choose, which has been us, twice...

That's the bed he's sleeping in now...

Completely different using Wild to compare as he had limited options im sure compared to HM. As well as every GM knows Wild's injury history and would never even come close to getting a 2 year deal with a raise from his previous contract. He knows he needs to have a healthy season if he wants to get another last shot at a decent pay.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 04, 2018, 09:06:17 PM
The point he as making is players who choose the team over money are easily endeared to the fan base, and those who choose to make teams their butts in the hopes of signing them are easily alienated by the fan base. Muamba has now alienated himself to fans here, who are tired of being insulted by his prima dona antics, and even if we do sign him here, and I hope we don't, I for one won't cheer for him no matter what he does, couldn't care less about him and hope nobody signs him, he's too good for both the NFL and CFL.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 04, 2018, 09:11:19 PM
I agree with some of Aard's comments (not all).  I'll cheer for Henoc while he is on the field, but I won't be getting his jersey. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 04, 2018, 09:12:45 PM
He was released 17 days ago...this is hardly ?antics?...if he doesn?t sign anywhere in the next month you can maybe start to question His decision making process ...people have made smaller decisions in longer times than this.  Some people make decisions very quickly...some ponder every little detail before they land on a choice. 

I don?t think Enoch will have trouble sleeping whatever he decides - I hope it?s the Bombers cause it?s a great opportunity to improve with a canadian.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on March 04, 2018, 10:33:26 PM
Muamba hasn't alienated me one bit. If he is the best option right now I hope we get him, if we don't I hope the next plan works just as well. As for buying his jersey I have a jersey all ready so that is also no big deal......just how many jerseys do some of ya'all actually have ?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 04, 2018, 11:23:26 PM
Aards why is it you paint all players you personally like as heroes and fine citizens but those you don't as malcontents with poor ?ttitudes? You bave attempted to assassinate tbe characters of Glenn, Bowman, and now Muamba. Just stop it.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue girl on March 05, 2018, 01:05:09 AM
I don't care how a player behaves off the field and whether or not he is a good citizen. I want players who can help us win a championship and Muamba can help us do this. I don't blame Muamba for taking his time. He has to do what's best for himself and I have no problem with that.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Tehedra on March 05, 2018, 01:18:01 AM
I happen to slightly agree with Aards, although I understand a player has to do what is good for them. I also want a player who wants the team to be successful and also considers the team in their actions. There is give and take both ways, but players willing to work with the team that has a mutual benefit can provide teams capable of competing for years to come instead of one hit wonders.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 05, 2018, 01:54:52 AM
Aards why is it you paint all players you personally like as heroes and fine citizens but those you don't as malcontents with poor ?ttitudes? You bave attempted to assassinate tbe characters of Glenn, Bowman, and now Muamba. Just stop it.

Some pretty embarrassing comments on his part, to be sure. Sadly, it's not the first time misguided emotions and homer bias have clouded reason. :-\

It hasn't even been three weeks since he was released. And it isn't like training camp starts tomorrow, in a week, or in a month.

As far as we can tell, the Bombers are the front-runner to acquire him and negotiations are ongoing. Let's see how this plays out before painting him in a negative way or assuming the worst about him.

The point he as making is players who choose the team over money are easily endeared to the fan base, and those who choose to make teams their butts in the hopes of signing them are easily alienated by the fan base. Muamba has now alienated himself to fans here, who are tired of being insulted by his prima dona antics, and even if we do sign him here, and I hope we don't, I for one won't cheer for him no matter what he does, couldn't care less about him and hope nobody signs him, he's too good for both the NFL and CFL.

Speaking of misguided emotions clouding reason...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Nic16 on March 05, 2018, 02:03:00 AM
He was released 17 days ago...

This x1000 ^^^^

People have absolutely zero clue on what or who is holding things up, but they?ll put all the blame on the player ...and his ?brand?.

Jeepers! Give the guy, HIS AGENT and the teams some time to negotiate. I?m sure the Als want him just as bad as the BB do!

Sometimes this place can get a little RF-like🙄


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Tehedra on March 05, 2018, 02:36:10 AM
This x1000 ^^^^

People have absolutely zero clue on what or who is holding things up, but they?ll put all the blame on the player ...and his ?brand?.

Jeepers! Give the guy, HIS AGENT and the teams some time to negotiate. I?m sure the Als want him just as bad as the BB do!

Sometimes this place can get a little RF-like🙄

The concern is typically; agreements are signed within the first two days after Free Agency starts.  So sayings its only been 17 days when typically 3 days is a long period of time for a signing does explain the angst that some have. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bustamente on March 05, 2018, 02:43:31 AM
It wouldn't surprise if it came out that his agent was/has been shopping him around the NFL, big wigs are at the combine so they are a little busy, personally think that ship has sailed but you never know.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: kkc60 on March 05, 2018, 02:53:27 AM
Compare his antics to Wild.  Wild came to the Bombers and said "I'll take whatever you think is fair, I want to be on this team, its going to be a winner".

That's a guy who's jersey you buy. 

Not the one who is looking out only for #1... 

There is no better fit in the league for him, no better opportunity for him to win.  Guys like Durant, Bowman, Demski, Fenner, Roh all had options, probably for more money, but chose Winnipeg.  Guys like Bryant, Medlock, Dressler, Randle, Leggett, Nevis all had an option to go elsewhere, possibly for more money, but chose to stay here.

This team is built of players who are here for the team, for the culture that has been built, for the coaching staff, for the fans... 

I don't remember the last time a player said "Winnipeg's offer was for more money, so I came here."  Almost every signing, the player says they could have made more elsewhere...

This is the CFL.  Muamba's antics will get him some plane rides and some free dinners.  Will it actually net him more cash?  Maybe.  His last two kicks at that can have come up short.  Had he come directly back to Winnipeg the first time, he'd probably be our second highest paid player, and a fan favourite.  But he didn't, and insulted the fans of the teams he didn't choose, which has been us, twice...

That's the bed he's sleeping in now...
No. Players just never say "it was the money" straight up. Did Westerman when he went to MTL? Did Carter when he re-upped with Sask? I think he insulted you because you can't understand how a player would go elsewhere. LaFrance chose Sask over us last season. Stafford did the same 2 years ago with Edmonton. Yeah  he mightve been more successful staying here. But hindsight is 20/20. Footballs a business. If you get butt hurt over a player going where they feel is the best fit financially and career wise, then you don't understand that


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 05, 2018, 03:15:14 AM
This x1000 ^^^^

People have absolutely zero clue on what or who is holding things up, but they?ll put all the blame on the player ...and his ?brand?.

Jeepers! Give the guy, HIS AGENT and the teams some time to negotiate. I?m sure the Als want him just as bad as the BB do!

Sometimes this place can get a little RF-like🙄

By day 3 of FA, everyone is looking at the dregs left over, most players have signed.  It doesn't take a cross country tour to decide what offer to take.  

Muamba's actions, in this his third FA tour, are not the norm, in any way/shape/form.  He is a talented player, adn will be a solid addition to any team that eventually signs him.  But his "antics" in negotiating are annoying and awfully self centered.  While I respect his game as a player, I don't have to like the man as a person.  That's all I'm saying.  I don't want to sit down and have a beer with the man, or even get his autograph.

Aards why is it you paint all players you personally like as heroes and fine citizens but those you don't as malcontents with poor ?ttitudes? You bave attempted to assassinate tbe characters of Glenn, Bowman, and now Muamba. Just stop it.

Assassinate the character?  Sorry, not sure you know what that means.  

Bowman drops balls.  Everyone knows that, even Bowman.  Have to admit, though, he is winning me over with his attitude since signing.  Its a lot easier to forgive a bad drop when you know the player is truly invested in the team, a player who signed for less to be on your team.  No issues with Bowman's character, just his untimely drops.

Glenn?  Glenn gonna Glenn, and that's my problem with him.  Never questioned his character, just the fact that he's a m'eh quarterback at best.  And he has never won the big game.  Wins the ESF with a career game, and tosses 3 int's in the first half of the EF, and gets pulled for a Canadian QB.  That's my problem with Glenn.  He has been under contract every team in the league, which means when he leaves Edm, every team in the league will have walked away from him.  In most cases he has been a band aid, an emergency fix, "insurance".  Not assassinating his character, just his game.

Muamba?  Yes, it is his character I have issue with.  And I'm not assassinating it, just commenting on the widely known facts.  Great player on the field, but either he or his agent are making him far too "me centric" for me, thank you very much.

Who knows, maybe he settles in if he signs here and earns some respect from fans he has disappointed.  For now, I don't have to like him, I don't have to respect him.  And I don't.  That's my right, sir.

No. Players just never say "it was the money" straight up. Did Westerman when he went to MTL? Did Carter when he re-upped with Sask? I think he insulted you because you can't understand how a player would go elsewhere. LaFrance chose Sask over us last season. Stafford did the same 2 years ago with Edmonton. Yeah  he mightve been more successful staying here. But hindsight is 20/20. Footballs a business. If you get butt hurt over a player going where they feel is the best fit financially and career wise, then you don't understand that

Ummm.. Westerman, LaFrance, Stafford.. when a team throws money at you like that, you don't have to say "it was the money".  We all know, it was the money.  You don't go to a dumpster fire for the warmth it generates. 

Muamba isn't talking about $170k from the Bombers vs. $250k from the Als like Westerman.  I'd bet the difference in the offers is well within the playoff bonuses.  Will he sign in Mtl or BC for a few more dollars than here?  Quite possibly.  And quite possibly end up making less.

It wouldn't surprise if it came out that his agent was/has been shopping him around the NFL, big wigs are at the combine so they are a little busy, personally think that ship has sailed but you never know.

I don't think he made a big enough impression down there to get another sniff.  And, if that was the case, then it is even more disrespectful of the league and its fans doing this tour...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Nic16 on March 05, 2018, 03:32:14 AM
The concern is typically; agreements are signed within the first two days after Free Agency starts.  So sayings its only been 17 days when typically 3 days is a long period of time for a signing does explain the angst that some have. 

I honestly couldn?t give a hoot if it?s 3 days or 3 wks. Last I checked TC is still close to 3 months away.

If he makes his decision tomorrow, a week, or a month from now won?t have any effect on my mood, feelings or life for that matter.

If the BB do finally get him signed I?ll certainly be very happy as the BB might be a better team with him on it.

And if he signs in Montreal, oh well c?est la vie. Hopefully, JSK, Wilson or Jones step up to the plate.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 05, 2018, 04:04:22 AM
Well you can't have it both ways -  cry that wilder jr should be a man and honour his contract then cry when a guy takes the time to get a contract he feels is fair that he can sign and honour in the future...this is the window of time to do that.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 05, 2018, 05:07:21 AM
Well you can't have it both ways -  cry that wilder jr should be a man and honour his contract then cry when a guy takes the time to get a contract he feels is fair that he can sign and honour in the future...this is the window of time to do that.

Really?  So, you're saying Wilder didn't do due diligence before signing his entry level contract for the standard pay and term that pretty much every rookie in the CFL signs?  And that somehow relates to Muamba being the only free agent CFL player to have multiple... MULTIPLE... cross Canada tours before eventually signing contracts that he was unable to finish due to the teams deciding that his contract was not worth what they received in return.

It has never been the case that Muamba wasn't able to sign and honor his contracts, just that he hasn't been able to get a team to feel they are getting full value from those contracts he signed...

I do hope they sign him for a reasonable amount of money and that he comes here and plays well and earns the fans love and respect.  I just don't think that entire scenario is going to happen. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 05, 2018, 09:33:58 AM
Really?  So, you're saying Wilder didn't do due diligence before signing his entry level contract for the standard pay and term that pretty much every rookie in the CFL signs?  And that somehow relates to Muamba being the only free agent CFL player to have multiple... MULTIPLE... cross Canada tours before eventually signing contracts that he was unable to finish due to the teams deciding that his contract was not worth what they received in return.

It has never been the case that Muamba wasn't able to sign and honor his contracts, just that he hasn't been able to get a team to feel they are getting full value from those contracts he signed...

I do hope they sign him for a reasonable amount of money and that he comes here and plays well and earns the fans love and respect.  I just don't think that entire scenario is going to happen. 


you fancy yourself a smart man, you know why this happens?   because he has been allowed to do so... wait, let me correct that...  he's been invited to do so... do you think that he and his agent went and shopped for invitations, mailed them to all of the teams, had them RSVP, and then set up this 'tour'?  Magic Eight Ball says "Seriously?".... no, after being cut he announced that we would be available, yet he wasn't ready to entertain offers immediately...

so, he goes home and just waits, and waits, until the phone starts ringing... "Hello... what's that you say? you'd like for me to come to your city and visit with you? ok.... sure, I'd probably have time to stay for dinner.... thank you... oh, that's kind of you to pick up my transportation.... yes, I'm looking forward to it as well, thank you again... I'll see you the day after tomorrow.... thx again..."    <<< later that afternoon >>>   "Hello.... oh, good afternoon Mr. Walters... it's funny that you call, I just had.... excuse me, what was that you said?  Next Tuesday? Yeah I think I'm free that day... sure, I'd love to come to Winnipeg... and dinner too? sure..."  you get the picture... 

I think you're blaming the wrong parties here...  it's kind of like when you go to the store and you see this kids just throwing a fit... you know why that kid does that? that's right, because he's allowed too... don't blame the kid, blame the parents...

Also, we don't know what he has been offered... maybe the Montreal offer is indeed higher than Winnipeg's, maybe significantly higher... and maybe he's giving himself adequate time to go through it properly, giving it the consideration it deserves, especially if he would be considering to turn down that significantly higher offer because he would rather play here...

but he's the best looking girl left at the dance right now and he knows that the boys will wait for a decision before asking someone else to dance... and lets not forget, at the end of the day the only person that is protected by that contract is the team, he has to factor in all of the possibilities as what he is offered to be compensated for playing, in both amount and term, and what he will be allowed to earn could be significantly different...

maybe he should consider a position in player representation once he's done playing because it sounds like he's figured out how to get top dollar for himself...

oh, and the Wilder thing.... didn't do due diligence? it doesn't take a whole lot of 'due diligence' to decide to sign it or go home... and as far as deciding he wasn't happy at the end of the year for not doing his 'due diligence'.... come on, what did he have to lose, the apple and map he'd be given if they didn't pony up some bucks? It's not like he was gambling with hundreds of thousands of dollars here... and honestly, what he did isn't any worst than the crappy contract he either signs of isn't allowed to play at all...   and I know, 'nobody made him sign that contract'... guess what, nobody made them pay him more either...  I guess that knife can cut both ways... lol


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 05, 2018, 01:00:28 PM

you fancy yourself a smart man, you know why this happens?   because he has been allowed to do so... wait, let me correct that...  he's been invited to do so... do you think that he and his agent went and shopped for invitations, mailed them to all of the teams, had them RSVP, and then set up this 'tour'?  Magic Eight Ball says "Seriously?".... no, after being cut he announced that we would be available, yet he wasn't ready to entertain offers immediately...

so, he goes home and just waits, and waits, until the phone starts ringing... "Hello... what's that you say? you'd like for me to come to your city and visit with you? ok.... sure, I'd probably have time to stay for dinner.... thank you... oh, that's kind of you to pick up my transportation.... yes, I'm looking forward to it as well, thank you again... I'll see you the day after tomorrow.... thx again..."    <<< later that afternoon >>>   "Hello.... oh, good afternoon Mr. Walters... it's funny that you call, I just had.... excuse me, what was that you said?  Next Tuesday? Yeah I think I'm free that day... sure, I'd love to come to Winnipeg... and dinner too? sure..."  you get the picture... 

I think you're blaming the wrong parties here...  it's kind of like when you go to the store and you see this kids just throwing a fit... you know why that kid does that? that's right, because he's allowed too... don't blame the kid, blame the parents...

Also, we don't know what he has been offered... maybe the Montreal offer is indeed higher than Winnipeg's, maybe significantly higher... and maybe he's giving himself adequate time to go through it properly, giving it the consideration it deserves, especially if he would be considering to turn down that significantly higher offer because he would rather play here...

but he's the best looking girl left at the dance right now and he knows that the boys will wait for a decision before asking someone else to dance... and lets not forget, at the end of the day the only person that is protected by that contract is the team, he has to factor in all of the possibilities as what he is offered to be compensated for playing, in both amount and term, and what he will be allowed to earn could be significantly different...

maybe he should consider a position in player representation once he's done playing because it sounds like he's figured out how to get top dollar for himself...

oh, and the Wilder thing.... didn't do due diligence? it doesn't take a whole lot of 'due diligence' to decide to sign it or go home... and as far as deciding he wasn't happy at the end of the year for not doing his 'due diligence'.... come on, what did he have to lose, the apple and map he'd be given if they didn't pony up some bucks? It's not like he was gambling with hundreds of thousands of dollars here... and honestly, what he did isn't any worst than the crappy contract he either signs of isn't allowed to play at all...   and I know, 'nobody made him sign that contract'... guess what, nobody made them pay him more either...  I guess that knife can cut both ways... lol

I guess that's one way it could have happened.  But then again, you weren't here the last two times it has happened. 

Its just funny how there is only one "pretty girl" in the CFL.  If any other player negotiated this way, it at least doesn't show up in the papers.  Constantly. 

Over 500 players in the league, and the rest all find a way to negotiate and sign deals without the hoopla these two seem to want/need.

Pretty sure that no GM initiated the tour... well, maybe Kavis.  After all he flew to NJ to talk Westerman into taking a huge wad of cash. 

Not question his ability or right to force teams into courting him.  Just saying it does not enamor him to certain fans, like me.  You have x number of teams, they are offering y dollars, make a decision. 

As to Wilder, someone was suggesting that Muamba's contract negotiations had something to do with his ability to honour the contract he was going to sign, which was something Wilder did not do.  I was just saying that Wilder's ELC was pretty standard, and if he wasn't going to honour it, he shouldn't have signed it.  Demanding a release to go to the NFL, or a raise for a final year of a legal and binding contract just so that he could leave after it were not things Popp would have agreed to, or had any need to.  Nothing at all like the Muamba situation, or the fact that the last two CFL teams that signed him were happy to walk away from contracts they had signed as a result of his cross country tours.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on March 05, 2018, 01:39:09 PM
Seriously some people are taking this stuff way too personally.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 05, 2018, 01:47:53 PM
I guess that's one way it could have happened.  But then again, you weren't here the last two times it has happened. 

Its just funny how there is only one "pretty girl" in the CFL.  If any other player negotiated this way, it at least doesn't show up in the papers.  Constantly. 

Over 500 players in the league, and the rest all find a way to negotiate and sign deals without the hoopla these two seem to want/need.

Pretty sure that no GM initiated the tour... well, maybe Kavis.  After all he flew to NJ to talk Westerman into taking a huge wad of cash. 

Not question his ability or right to force teams into courting him.  Just saying it does not enamor him to certain fans, like me.  You have x number of teams, they are offering y dollars, make a decision. 

As to Wilder, someone was suggesting that Muamba's contract negotiations had something to do with his ability to honour the contract he was going to sign, which was something Wilder did not do.  I was just saying that Wilder's ELC was pretty standard, and if he wasn't going to honour it, he shouldn't have signed it.  Demanding a release to go to the NFL, or a raise for a final year of a legal and binding contract just so that he could leave after it were not things Popp would have agreed to, or had any need to.  Nothing at all like the Muamba situation, or the fact that the last two CFL teams that signed him were happy to walk away from contracts they had signed as a result of his cross country tours.

you're absolutely correct, I wasn't there and I can't say for certain how it went down, however, I have a hard tell believing that Muamba called his agent and said, hey, call everyone up and lets see if we can't waste a week trying to get this done, either though. Probably more realisticly, Montreal called him and invited him, Walters caught wind of it and felt like he should as well to make sure he knew the Bombers were interested as well.

And let's not forget that he wasn't scheduled to be a free agent, though he may have had an idea that he wasn't going to stay in SSK, he wasn't sure that he'd been leaving either. With that being said, he wasn't sitting there since 11/20/17 knowing that he would likely be gone, like the FAs did as he still was under contract for the upcoming season.

and, in my 'dance' scenario, 'prettiest' wasn't the operative word in that statement, 'left' was. While he may not have been the most talented MLB at the time he became available, he was the best available that held the 'right' passport. I won't try to debate with you his skill level, obviously you know that far better than I, as well as any lingering effects of his prior actions. But you can't fault a man for inheriting a position of power.

And early on I was in the 'you signed it, you honor it' camp, however, after researching the Standard Player Contract and seeing player after player being cut the day before they were due contractually obligated money, I kind of shifted to the position of if the team can, why shouldn't the player as well. And even though he came on like a beast in the few games he played last year I never really thought that he was a lock for the NFL... With that being said, if we can reconcile teams cutting players just because they can, and not honor what they signed because they have 'buyers remorse', why should we have a problem with players doing the same?

So, the Wilder and Muamba deals were kind of the same, at least at the root of the issue, but just coming from different directions. One side we had a team that didn't want to honor the contract that they voluntarily signed, and on the other side we had a player that didn't want to honor the contract that he voluntarily signed. Now the circus to follow surrounding the two may have been different, the essence of the deals were pretty much apples to apples...

but, at the end of the day, not much of any of this will matter if we sign him and we win, and win consistently....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 05, 2018, 01:53:06 PM
And I forgot to add this as well, because Aards, you are correct, it is your right to not like it and for whatever reason you have... and I'm not trying to sway you away from that, just presenting an alternative perspective...  ;D 

if nothing else, it's a lot more interesting than pizza... lol...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: M.O.A.B. on March 05, 2018, 01:54:21 PM
i got a hunch that the cause of delay is...they're trying to settle who will wear #10... Demski or Muamba  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 05, 2018, 01:56:02 PM
i got a hunch that the cause of delay is...they're trying to settle who will wear #10... Demski or Muamba  ;D ;D ;D

well that's easy, just put it at mid field with the two of them on opposite 50 yard lines and whoever makes it back to the locker room with it, 'owns it', lol...  ;D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on March 05, 2018, 01:57:07 PM

if nothing else, it's a lot more interesting than pizza... lol...

That is becoming debatable.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Nic16 on March 05, 2018, 02:00:55 PM
Agree 100% with 66.

My guess is, Kavis has made Henoc?s decision a difficult one. HM knows it?s a much better situation in Wpg, but being 29 and on the back 9 of his career money certainly does come into play.

And these ?MULTIPLE? cross country tours Aard?s speaks of is nonsense. When HM first came back from the NFL it was mid-season and several teams stepped up to court him...and I see nothing wrong with that.

He signed with the Als, who shortly after had a change in mgmt that purged the roster. Which then opened the door for Jones and the struggling Riders to hand over a suitcase of money to him.

That brings us to 2018. Jones discovers he has spent too much money on FA?s and the President says no to any roster & SMS shensnigans this time around. This leaves Jones with no choice but to release a couple of his most expensive recent signings...and Henoc is one of them.

Enter the past 20 days...and now you have a 2 city battle for HM. Not a cross country tour ::)

Anyway, that?s the last I?m going to say on this.

Happy Snow Day everybody!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 05, 2018, 02:12:28 PM
Seriously some people are taking this stuff way too personally.

Agreed. One person in particular... And he needs to get over himself.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on March 05, 2018, 02:18:29 PM
Agree 100% with 66.

My guess is, Kavis has made Henoc?s decision a difficult one. HM knows it?s a much better situation in Wpg, but being 29 and on the back 9 of his career money certainly does come into play.

And these ?MULTIPLE? cross country tours Aard?s speaks of is nonsense. When HM first came back from the NFL it was mid-season and several teams stepped up to court him...and I see nothing wrong with that.

He signed with the Als, who shortly after had a change in mgmt that purged the roster. Which then opened the door for Jones and the struggling Riders to hand over a suitcase of money to him.

That brings us to 2018. Jones discovers he has spent too much money on FA?s and the President says no to any roster & SMS shensnigans this time around. This leaves Jones with no choice but to release a couple of his most expensive recent signings...and Henoc is one of them.

Enter the past 20 days...and now you have a 2 city battle for HM. Not a cross country tour ::)

Anyway, that?s the last I?m going to say on this.

Happy Snow Day everybody!


Could be that his agent is shopping him around the NFL, XFL or the lingerie league.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 05, 2018, 02:21:15 PM
Could be that his agent is shopping him around the NFL, XFL or the lingerie league.

wonder if he has the same agent as Manziel?  lol...  regardless, we tend to forget what role his agent may have played in all of this as well, if any to be fair...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on March 05, 2018, 02:23:53 PM
Agree 100% with 66.

My guess is, Kavis has made Henoc?s decision a difficult one. HM knows it?s a much better situation in Wpg, but being 29 and on the back 9 of his career money certainly does come into play.

And these ?MULTIPLE? cross country tours Aard?s speaks of is nonsense. When HM first came back from the NFL it was mid-season and several teams stepped up to court him...and I see nothing wrong with that.

He signed with the Als, who shortly after had a change in mgmt that purged the roster. Which then opened the door for Jones and the struggling Riders to hand over a suitcase of money to him.

That brings us to 2018. Jones discovers he has spent too much money on FA?s and the President says no to any roster & SMS shensnigans this time around. This leaves Jones with no choice but to release a couple of his most expensive recent signings...and Henoc is one of them.

Enter the past 20 days...and now you have a 2 city battle for HM. Not a cross country tour ::)

Anyway, that?s the last I?m going to say on this.

Happy Snow Day everybody!


Meh
Thx


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 05, 2018, 03:38:15 PM
Aards, after reading all your posts on the subject, my opinion is that you dislike HM because he is an excellent player with options that wants to take the time to get the best possible deal he can.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: M.O.A.B. on March 05, 2018, 03:44:50 PM
Aards, after reading all your posts on the subject, my opinion is that you dislike HM because he is an excellent player with options that wants to take the time to get the best possible deal he can.

That's Aards. Any player not wearing Blue&Gold is either not a good player or not a good fit for the Bombers...
...but he's quick to change tune once the player sign with the Bombers, all of sudden that player becomes a super-player.  ;D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 05, 2018, 04:06:48 PM
That's Aards. Any player not wearing Blue&Gold is either not a good player or not a good fit for the Bombers...
...but he's quick to change tune once the player sign with the Bombers, all of sudden that player becomes a super-player.  ;D

Just have to read through all the hyperbole and gross exaggeration and it doesn't leave much of an argument against signing Muamba. Same as with Bowman...same as with Glenn etc. etc.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bluengold204 on March 05, 2018, 04:13:39 PM
Aards, after reading all your posts on the subject, my opinion is that you dislike HM because he is an excellent player with options that wants to take the time to get the best possible deal he can.

Yeah according to Aards he should sign the first offer given to him, probably shouldn't even read it.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 05, 2018, 04:20:45 PM
Aards, after reading all your posts on the subject, my opinion is that you dislike HM because he is an excellent player with options that wants to take the time to get the best possible deal he can.

Nope.  Not at all.  I don't care how much time he takes, or how much he gets.  

I care that he seems to be the only player in the CFL that is publicly pitting team against team, using the media and fans, all to line his own pockets to the max, and have his ego (and his agent's) massaged.

TJ Heath didn't resort to this, Bear Woods, Tank Reed... we didn't hear anything about their negotiations until they signed.  Westerman, we heard a little, but that was from Kavis' side.  

HM had other options in trying to get the best deal he could.  I really don't think, at the end of the day, that he's going to end up with any better a deal, and he will have lost the respect of fans, players and teams for his "antics".  

If he does sign here, we will have landed a top talent, no doubt.  I'm just wondering what our locker room is going to think of him.  With guys like Wild, Randle, Leggett, Okpa, Bowman, Durant, Dressler, Medlock and more... all who signed here without fanfare because they wanted to be part of this team, of this locker room, this family, I'm not sure how he will be looked at.  

Sure, in public, everyone will be "we're a family".  But in private, will there be ill will for his "antics", he may be the only player in the room that chose to sign here whose decision process was based on something other than wanting to be part of the team.

That's Aards. Any player not wearing Blue&Gold is either not a good player or not a good fit for the Bombers...
...but he's quick to change tune once the player sign with the Bombers, all of sudden that player becomes a super-player.  ;D

Not saying I don't want him to sign here, or that he's not a good player.  Just saying I don't like his attitude or tactics.  I want players who want to be here, not just be paid.  Give me Wild's attitude in HM's body, and you have a player that would be a fan favourite for decades after he finished playing.  

Yes, I like Rudy.  And I think our team has a lot of Rudy's, and players that understand Rudy, and would put their jersey on coach'e desk so Rudy could dress.  

I don't think HM is a Rudy, or a guy in the line with jersey in hand.  In My Humble Opinion.

I hope he proves me wrong, signs here, and wins me over with his play on the field and off.

Yeah according to Aards he should sign the first offer given to him, probably shouldn't even read it.

Far from it.  No player ever does.  I have no problem with him entertaining multiple offers, and negotiating for the best deal.  Every player in the league does, unless your name is Wild.

But HM seems to be the only one who needs to have it all done in public, pitting team against team in the public eye, leaving the losing team to answer to its fan base on why they were not able to sign him even though they had wined and dined him, etc...  we've seen the fallout before.  There was even a backlash here when we were dropped from his tour, and our management team was berated for their failure to recruit him. 

Take your time, field offers, make counters and decide on a team.  Agent/GM communications.  Don't involve the media, don't use the fans as bargaining chips.

He's played in the league long enough that he should know what every team is about, what facilities they have, what the fan bases are, etc.  Its not like he's coming in green and needs to find out what the league is all about.




Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 05, 2018, 04:34:22 PM
Just have to read through all the hyperbole and gross exaggeration and it doesn't leave much of an argument against signing Muamba. Same as with Bowman...same as with Glenn etc. etc.

No argument against signing Muamba.  I really think we should.  I just don't want to:

a: overpay (I'm sure Walters won't)

B: cause an issue with the locker room

If he signs here and fits into the team, maybe some of our players will rub off on him.  Maybe he's never been part of a team like our before, and he will learn to understand the team first concept. 

I hope he signs here, and changes my mind.  Like Bowman has done.  I'm still gonna cringe when he gets hit in the hands and can't hold on to the ball, but hopefully the rest of his play, on and off the field, will make me forget about the drops.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 05, 2018, 04:35:32 PM
Nope.  Not at all.  I don't care how much time he takes, or how much he gets.  

I care that he seems to be the only player in the CFL that is publicly pitting team against team, using the media and fans, all to line his own pockets to the max, and have his ego (and his agent's) massaged.

TJ Heath didn't resort to this, Bear Woods, Tank Reed... we didn't hear anything about their negotiations until they signed.  Westerman, we heard a little, but that was from Kavis' side.  

HM had other options in trying to get the best deal he could.  I really don't think, at the end of the day, that he's going to end up with any better a deal, and he will have lost the respect of fans, players and teams for his "antics".  

If he does sign here, we will have landed a top talent, no doubt.  I'm just wondering what our locker room is going to think of him.  With guys like Wild, Randle, Leggett, Okpa, Bowman, Durant, Dressler, Medlock and more... all who signed here without fanfare because they wanted to be part of this team, of this locker room, this family, I'm not sure how he will be looked at.  

Sure, in public, everyone will be "we're a family".  But in private, will there be ill will for his "antics", he may be the only player in the room that chose to sign here whose decision process was based on something other than wanting to be part of the team.

Not saying I don't want him to sign here, or that he's not a good player.  Just saying I don't like his attitude or tactics.  I want players who want to be here, not just be paid.  Give me Wild's attitude in HM's body, and you have a player that would be a fan favourite for decades after he finished playing.  

Yes, I like Rudy.  And I think our team has a lot of Rudy's, and players that understand Rudy, and would put their jersey on coach'e desk so Rudy could dress.  

I don't think HM is a Rudy, or a guy in the line with jersey in hand.  In My Humble Opinion.

I hope he proves me wrong, signs here, and wins me over with his play on the field and off.

Far from it.  No player ever does.  I have no problem with him entertaining multiple offers, and negotiating for the best deal.  Every player in the league does, unless your name is Wild.

But HM seems to be the only one who needs to have it all done in public, pitting team against team in the public eye, leaving the losing team to answer to its fan base on why they were not able to sign him even though they had wined and dined him, etc...  we've seen the fallout before.  There was even a backlash here when we were dropped from his tour, and our management team was berated for their failure to recruit him. 

Take your time, field offers, make counters and decide on a team.  Agent/GM communications.  Don't involve the media, don't use the fans as bargaining chips.

He's played in the league long enough that he should know what every team is about, what facilities they have, what the fan bases are, etc.  Its not like he's coming in green and needs to find out what the league is all about.




Hyperbole and exaggeration. Tell me what Henoc would know about Kavis Reed or Mike O'Shea, or what either teams current plans for him are before meeting with them? Explain to me how he is using the fans as bargaining chips? Explain to me how Henoc controls the media interest in his signing. ALL upper echelon players are followed closely and have wide media coverage when they become FA's. Bowman had that, was he using the fans as bargaining chips too? Ridiculous.

You have a hate on for him because he is a ratio breaker and you do not approve of the Bombers signing ratio breakers. Don't make me go back through the forum and find all the times you have stated that signing a ratio breaker makes no sense cause I know where to find it....the Muamba thread from 2 years ago, and the Ben Heenan thread.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 05, 2018, 04:41:33 PM
No argument against signing Muamba.  I really think we should.  I just don't want to:

a: overpay (I'm sure Walters won't)

B: cause an issue with the locker room

If he signs here and fits into the team, maybe some of our players will rub off on him.  Maybe he's never been part of a team like our before, and he will learn to understand the team first concept. 

I hope he signs here, and changes my mind.  Like Bowman has done.  I'm still gonna cringe when he gets hit in the hands and can't hold on to the ball, but hopefully the rest of his play, on and off the field, will make me forget about the drops.

You are thoroughly confused. Henoc has been loved in every dressing room he's been in, and every coach that has had him is unanimous in stating he is the consummate professional and team player. To suggest otherwise is pure fabrication. The reason he commands the dollars he gets is because you get the total package in Muamba, skill, leadership, and a team player.

You keep making comments that he has some kind of bad attitude and there is literally nothing based in fact that supports your theory. His last contract he committed to his team for 3 years, 2 years the time before that. He just hasn't found a team that is willing to keep his salary, but as a player, they would have loved to retain him. Can't blame a guy for taking his time signing a contract when 2 teams have broken his heart already.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 05, 2018, 05:10:49 PM
Well....if he signs with us we should be happy and let the chips fall where they fall.....MOS would definitely not want him on our team if he was a ME only type player.   If he signs with another team of course disappointment will follow but I still wish him well.   


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 05, 2018, 05:17:08 PM
I care that he seems to be the only player in the CFL that is publicly pitting team against team, using the media and fans, all to line his own pockets to the max, and have his ego (and his agent's) massaged.

But HM seems to be the only one who needs to have it all done in public, pitting team against team in the public eye, leaving the losing team to answer to its fan base on why they were not able to sign him even though they had wined and dined him, etc...  we've seen the fallout before.  There was even a backlash here when we were dropped from his tour, and our management team was berated for their failure to recruit him. 

Take your time, field offers, make counters and decide on a team.  Agent/GM communications.  Don't involve the media, don't use the fans as bargaining chips.

It must be hard on the brain to go to such lengths to frame a player and person you've never met in such a poor light, fabricating events and creating false narratives. Amazing mental gymnastics.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 05, 2018, 05:29:03 PM
It must be hard on the brain to go to such lengths to frame a player and person you've never met in such a poor light, fabricating events and creating false narratives. Amazing mental gymnastics.

Sadly, I think he honestly believes what he is typing to be true.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Nic16 on March 05, 2018, 07:04:18 PM
Let?s also remember Muamba was released somewhat unexpectedly on FA day. Unlike the other FAs who had weeks or months to figure out their worth +\or who was interested.

The Riders were obviously hoping to catch the BB off guard and have Kavis swoop to drag Henoc out East.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 05, 2018, 07:16:32 PM
You are thoroughly confused. Henoc has been loved in every dressing room he's been in, and every coach that has had him is unanimous in stating he is the consummate professional and team player. To suggest otherwise is pure fabrication. The reason he commands the dollars he gets is because you get the total package in Muamba, skill, leadership, and a team player.

You keep making comments that he has some kind of bad attitude and there is literally nothing based in fact that supports your theory. His last contract he committed to his team for 3 years, 2 years the time before that. He just hasn't found a team that is willing to keep his salary, but as a player, they would have loved to retain him. Can't blame a guy for taking his time signing a contract when 2 teams have broken his heart already.

So, you are saying that he's a good player, just not worth the contract's he's managed to squeeze out of GM's by doing his cross country tours?

And now, he's doing the same thing, on a lesser scale, but essentially the same thing? 

The only team that has not released him, and honoured a contract he has signed to its end, and been interested in extending that, was us.  And Walters and company have established that they stick to contracts they sign players to (from reports, any that have been "re-negotiated" have ended up netting the player more money through bonus structures).

I'm guessing he has a decision right now between less money but security with us, and a good possibility of maximizing post season cash versus signing with GM's that are not adverse to cutting a player if they need to shed SMS and they have a better option. 

As to his "consummate professionalism", on the field, sure, I can see that... in the locker room, not being in there, I don't know.  Is he a glue guy?  He very well could be. 

I'm just saying, based solely on his negotiating tactics, he seems to be somewhat selfish and a mite bit egotistical.  Is that him, or his agent?  I don't know.  But he's out eating more than his share of free steak dinners... (do those count towards SMS?)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 05, 2018, 07:29:48 PM
So, you are saying that he's a good player, just not worth the contract's he's managed to squeeze out of GM's by doing his cross country tours?

And now, he's doing the same thing, on a lesser scale, but essentially the same thing? 

The only team that has not released him, and honoured a contract he has signed to its end, and been interested in extending that, was us.  And Walters and company have established that they stick to contracts they sign players to (from reports, any that have been "re-negotiated" have ended up netting the player more money through bonus structures).

I'm guessing he has a decision right now between less money but security with us, and a good possibility of maximizing post season cash versus signing with GM's that are not adverse to cutting a player if they need to shed SMS and they have a better option. 


As to his "consummate professionalism", on the field, sure, I can see that... in the locker room, not being in there, I don't know.  Is he a glue guy?  He very well could be. 

I'm just saying, based solely on his negotiating tactics, he seems to be somewhat selfish and a mite bit egotistical.  Is that him, or his agent?  I don't know.  But he's out eating more than his share of free steak dinners... (do those count towards SMS?)

Not even remotely what I said. You just don't understand the SMS at all. If GMs didn't believe he was worth that kind of money he wouldn't get it. However, he was unfortunate in signing with two teams that were in cap hell and had no choice but release him because releasing one player causes less disruption to continuity then releasing two other players. The Als had Bear Woods waiting in the wings and a DL in Vaugh Martin they thought was going to be a dominant player, so it was a no brainer in Montreal in their minds. With the Riders, it was simply Chris Jones being Chris Jones....there is no rhyme or reason in some of the moves he makes but Henoc put up fantastic numbers for them down the stretch and was the catalyst behind their defensive turn around last year.

If you can find me one comment from any player who has played with him that suggests he is not a team player bring it on and I'll put up 10 that suggest his team mates love him.

Also, you call visiting the city and speaking to team directly a "tactic". Do you have any idea how many players we wine and dine prior to signing them? You don't think we've had players who have spent a couple days in town prior to signing with us to check things out? Of course we have. You are holding it against HM though because the media has chosen to show more interest in it. We've bought a lot of steaks at Hy's over the years for guys, and lots of them signed and lots of them didn't. It's how it's done.

BTW, we don't stick to every contract that is signed. That's just pure fiction. We release guys every year.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 05, 2018, 07:34:54 PM
Let?s also remember Muamba was released somewhat unexpectedly on FA day. Unlike the other FAs who had weeks or months to figure out their worth +\or who was interested.

The Riders were obviously hoping to catch the BB off guard and have Kavis swoop to drag Henoc out East.

It's the beginning of March. If I were Henoc, I would be in zero rush right now too.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 05, 2018, 08:05:44 PM
Not even remotely what I said. You just don't understand the SMS at all. If GMs didn't believe he was worth that kind of money he wouldn't get it. However, he was unfortunate in signing with two teams that were in cap hell and had no choice but release him because releasing one player causes less disruption to continuity then releasing two other players. The Als had Bear Woods waiting in the wings and a DL in Vaugh Martin they thought was going to be a dominant player, so it was a no brainer in Montreal in their minds. With the Riders, it was simply Chris Jones being Chris Jones....there is no rhyme or reason in some of the moves he makes but Henoc put up fantastic numbers for them down the stretch and was the catalyst behind their defensive turn around last year.

If you can find me one comment from any player who has played with him that suggests he is not a team player bring it on and I'll put up 10 that suggest his team mates love him.

Also, you call visiting the city and speaking to team directly a "tactic". Do you have any idea how many players we wine and dine prior to signing them? You don't think we've had players who have spent a couple days in town prior to signing with us to check things out? Of course we have. You are holding it against HM though because the media has chosen to show more interest in it. We've bought a lot of steaks at Hy's over the years for guys, and lots of them signed and lots of them didn't. It's how it's done.

BTW, we don't stick to every contract that is signed. That's just pure fiction. We release guys every year.

I understand SMS and ratio quite well, sir.  If a team has committed to a contract for a player, and expect him to earn at that level, and he does, then they do not cut him for SMS woes.  And, if he "unfortunately signed with teams in cap hell", I guess his due diligence was not done... knowing he's the one on the chopping block.

If its the media that is creating the "cross country tours", then that's a different story. He certainly isn't shying away from it, though.  And I'm sure his agent isn't as well.

As to sticking to contracts, which players have we cut loose for SMS reasons?  I may have blue glasses on, but I really don't remember any mercenary cuts... sure, we haven't re-signed every player who's contract has expired, but I can't remember any player that has been cut purely based on SMS...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 05, 2018, 08:20:45 PM
I understand SMS and ratio quite well, sir.  If a team has committed to a contract for a player, and expect him to earn at that level, and he does, then they do not cut him for SMS woes.  And, if he "unfortunately signed with teams in cap hell", I guess his due diligence was not done... knowing he's the one on the chopping block.

If its the media that is creating the "cross country tours", then that's a different story. He certainly isn't shying away from it, though.  And I'm sure his agent isn't as well.

LOL :D

Blaming the player for a team (and its GM) being unable to manage its salaries... Unbelievable reaching. And Muamba was cut because Jones has absolutely no idea how to manage his roster. It had nothing to do with him not earning his keep last season.

Why would Muamba or his agent have to "shy away" from claims being made by the media, whose sole purpose is to get reactions (likes, views, comments, etc.) from the public? Both have more important things to worry about, but of course you'd find a way to pin the actions of others on him (and his agent), too.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 05, 2018, 08:31:07 PM


As to sticking to contracts, which players have we cut loose for SMS reasons?  I may have blue glasses on, but I really don't remember any mercenary cuts... sure, we haven't re-signed every player who's contract has expired, but I can't remember any player that has been cut purely based on SMS...

There are 3 named in this article

https://globalnews.ca/news/2594547/winnipeg-blue-bombers-release-veterans-clarence-denmark-and-bryant-turner/

And that doesn't count Korey Banks.  We've also gone back and asked veterans to restructure for SMS reasons, which no matter how you spin it, is not "sticking to a contract". 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue girl on March 05, 2018, 08:32:24 PM
My theory is that Montreal is offering more money but Henoc would rather come here. The fact that it is taking so long is because he was released after free agency had begun and teams had already decided and/or signed the players that they were most interested in so there isn't much money left in the SMS. It will get done, hopefully sooner than later.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 05, 2018, 10:34:05 PM
There are 3 named in this article

https://globalnews.ca/news/2594547/winnipeg-blue-bombers-release-veterans-clarence-denmark-and-bryant-turner/

And that doesn't count Korey Banks.  We've also gone back and asked veterans to restructure for SMS reasons, which no matter how you spin it, is not "sticking to a contract". 

No..no..all these guys were cut due to performance... ;D ;)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 05, 2018, 10:42:12 PM
There are 3 named in this article

https://globalnews.ca/news/2594547/winnipeg-blue-bombers-release-veterans-clarence-denmark-and-bryant-turner/

And that doesn't count Korey Banks.  We've also gone back and asked veterans to restructure for SMS reasons, which no matter how you spin it, is not "sticking to a contract". 

Steve Morley, Glenn January, Kenny Stafford, Obby Khan, Macho Harris, were all given an apple and a road map when younger and cheaper alternatives were found. Literally every team in this league is forced to have league minimum recruits come in and replace still capable vets for SMS purposes.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bomb squad on March 05, 2018, 10:44:28 PM
LOL :D

Blaming the player for a team (and its GM) being unable to manage its salaries... Unbelievable reaching. And Muamba was cut because Jones has absolutely no idea how to manage his roster. It had nothing to do with him not earning his keep last season.

Why would Muamba or his agent have to "shy away" from claims being made by the media, whose sole purpose is to get reactions (likes, views, comments, etc.) from the public? Both have more important things to worry about, but of course you'd find a way to pin the actions of others on him (and his agent), too.

I think the acquisition of Zach Collaros may have had a lot to with the release of Muamba.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 05, 2018, 10:49:24 PM
Jones had every intention of keeping Muamba. Jones fudged up his QB plan and that greatly impacted his SMS plan. He thought he could get Franklin as his starter on the cheap. Popp schooled him and left him hanging witb a 430k starter in Collaros. After that dominoes had to start dropping. HM was one of those. In order for Jones to fix a horrid DL he had to move defensive money to the DL. The LBer corps was the only place to get some tangible savings.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on March 05, 2018, 11:13:10 PM
Is it Muamba putting out all the stories about what he is up to ?.......or is it the media and sites like this causing all this drama ?.....lol......

I really hope we get Muamba now.....it will help me understand the aards stuff better


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on March 06, 2018, 12:16:31 AM
Ya this salary management crap is stupid.  Why can't you tear up some contract, and extend it over a period of a couple more years. While no contracts are guaranteed in the CFL, the guy becomes the director of Canadian college scouting for thise last year's if he isn't able to be a player.

So if someone wants poor old Hectare, I would think there is a way.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: kkc60 on March 06, 2018, 02:05:21 AM
As to sticking to contracts, which players have we cut loose for SMS reasons?  I may have blue glasses on, but I really don't remember any mercenary cuts... sure, we haven't re-signed every player who's contract has expired, but I can't remember any player that has been cut purely based on SMS...
Clarence Denmark and Bryant Turner Jr say hi. As does Jason Vega and Korey Banks if ya wanna reach. Same with Dom Picard and Steve Morley.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 06, 2018, 03:13:40 AM
It's a reach alright, all of those listed were poor performers and their salary wasn't in alignment with their performance, so we went the younger, cheaper route and improved both talent and SMS wise.

HM is a good linebacker, it's just Jones had to save some salary $$$ so the expensive LB was dropped in favour of signing a big dollar Qb, who is a big time gamble, as if ZC doesn't pan out, he's paying him big bucks AND got rid of a quality NAT starter


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 06, 2018, 09:11:11 AM
In a no SMS world with an enforced ratio, Muamba and Singleton would have 9 high dollar contracts in front of them anytime they were a FA that would be as long a term as they want.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Sec223 on March 06, 2018, 11:57:22 AM
And that would end the CFL.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 06, 2018, 12:37:00 PM
And that would end the CFL.
Its why you do not see GC repeats with teams like Edmonton winning 5 Cups in a row like they did back in the day.  These days teams can go from last place to a cup in a year or two....Toronto being the last example.  It has not worked for us though we did make an appearance in 2011 but came up a little short against BC.  Getting Muamba improves our chances if he can stay healthy and get us into the West final along with Wild and Knox.  You still need some luck with your roster and the football gods come playoff time....with Calgary coming up short in the last two Cups despite being heavily favoured!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 06, 2018, 01:29:38 PM
Justin Dunk's idea on how to make room for Muamba...(should be noted that somewhere in this thread his brainwave was already discussed - he just has more details...)

http://3downnation.com/2018/03/06/how-the-bombers-can-create-cap-space-for-henoc-muamba/ (http://3downnation.com/2018/03/06/how-the-bombers-can-create-cap-space-for-henoc-muamba/)


Canadian linebacker Henoc Muamba is ?trying to make? re-joining the Winnipeg Blue Bombers ?happen?, the city where he started his CFL career.

The Bombers have wined and dined Muamba, so now it?s time to get down to business. Given his hefty price tag ? he will command in the neighbourhood of $200,000 ? how will the Bombers be able to afford him?

Muamba?s old contract with the Riders would have seen him make $220,000 (if he played in 15 games) and while his new deal may not quite reach that lofty number, $200,000 seems too be the starting rate for an elite, ratio-breaking Canadian. Argos? tackle Chris Van Zeyl, Alouettes? defensive lineman Jamaal Westerman, Redblacks? receiver Brad Sinopoli, Ticats? defensive tackle Ted Laurent, and Bombers? running back Andrew Harris are all within that (upper class) national neighbourhood. Muamba belongs in that group, but Winnipeg has to make sure he fits within their salary cap.

There is one easy way to create some room: release defensive end Tristan Okpalaugo. The 28-year-old signed a two-year contract with the Bombers last February. He played in 12 games making 34 tackles and six sacks while intercepting a pass for a touchdown. Okpalaugo made approximately $168,000 in 2017 and 2018 sees his contract bump $10,000 to $178,000. For comparison, that?s over $30,000 more than the CFL?s reigning sack leader Charleston Hughes is due to make with the Riders.

Jackson Jeffcoat, who produced 36 tackles and seven sacks plus a forced fumble and interception, remains on a cheap rookie CFL deal. Free agent Craig Roh signed for two seasons, four days after the market opened when prices for players dropped and he has 20 sacks in 45 career games. Jeffcoat and Roh are both younger, played more games in 2017, and can rush the passer just as well if not better than Okpalaugo. Granted Okpalaugo is the only player on the Bombers roster with double-digit sack seasons on his resume.

All three are starting-calibre ends in the CFL, but money plays a factor and the least amount of value for the dollars out of the trio is obvious. Canadian Trent Corney is a rising talent and he?s served as the rotational end since being drafted ninth overall in 2016. He?s a great depth piece, who has intriguing potential as a starter and rounds out the defensive end position nicely if Okpalaugo is there or not.

Without having access to the Bombers? exact salary cap numbers and tools to move numbers around, it would seem possible to take Okpalaugo?s money out and tinker elsewhere on the roster to find the $200,000 that could bring Muamba back to Winnipeg.

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Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 06, 2018, 01:40:48 PM
I think the acquisition of Zach Collaros may have had a lot to with the release of Muamba.

For sure. And re-signing Jefferson, trading for Hughes and his massive contract, signing Evans, signing Messam, and signing Bond. All of those decisions by Jones made Muamba impossible to retain, weakening his NAT pool and ultimately the defense.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 06, 2018, 01:52:06 PM
Steve Morley, Glenn January, Kenny Stafford, Obby Khan, Macho Harris, were all given an apple and a road map when younger and cheaper alternatives were found. Literally every team in this league is forced to have league minimum recruits come in and replace still capable vets for SMS purposes.

So, you are saying HM was dropped because Jones had a younger, cheaper Nat alternative at MLB?  And that Popp dumped Muamba because they had a legit Nat MLB to replace him?  Every player you listed was replaced for performance reasons, they lost their jobs on the field, not based solely on a contract...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 06, 2018, 02:29:52 PM
I don't like the idea of releasing Okpalaugo to make room for Muamba.  But Dunk is pretty connected to Walters, so I'd say there is some substance to this. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 06, 2018, 02:46:12 PM
Here's the link to Dunk's article: http://3downnation.com/2018/03/06/how-the-bombers-can-create-cap-space-for-henoc-muamba/ (http://3downnation.com/2018/03/06/how-the-bombers-can-create-cap-space-for-henoc-muamba/)

I didn't realize Okpalaugo was making that much ($168K last year and $178K this year).
The Zipp posted it a few posts above.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 06, 2018, 03:06:33 PM
Here's the link to Dunk's article: http://3downnation.com/2018/03/06/how-the-bombers-can-create-cap-space-for-henoc-muamba/ (http://3downnation.com/2018/03/06/how-the-bombers-can-create-cap-space-for-henoc-muamba/)

I didn't realize Okpalaugo was making that much ($168K last year and $178K this year).

Yah.  That is a pretty good chunk of money.  I like OKA but with Jeffcoat in there and the opportunity to have a dominant canadian LB if he has to go so be it...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Jesse on March 06, 2018, 03:19:59 PM
I don't like the idea of releasing Okpalaugo to make room for Muamba.  But Dunk is pretty connected to Walters, so I'd say there is some substance to this. 

I don't think it's a matter of access. He's simply a well paid player in an are where we have depth. It's a simple trade off if we need the cap room. And if it truly is one or the other, Muamba wins any day of the week.

A lot of poster pointed this possibility out the day Muamba was released.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: rubanski on March 06, 2018, 03:39:30 PM
How the heck are we paying Okpalaugo 30K more than C Hughes is making...

He's a very good player, but that's all-star money.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: thunderNlightning on March 06, 2018, 03:40:04 PM
Yah.  That is a pretty good chunk of money.  I like OKA but with Jeffcoat in there and the opportunity to have a dominant canadian LB if he has to go so be it...

We lose Oka and Westerman, who is our go to pass rushers? We lose a lot of speed and depth.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 06, 2018, 03:48:30 PM
How the heck are we paying Okpalaugo 30K more than C Hughes is making...

He's a very good player, but that's all-star money.

I think that is false, I believe the Riders are paying Hughes at least $175,000.  He didn't come cheap.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 06, 2018, 03:49:13 PM
We lose Oka and Westerman, who is our go to pass rushers? We lose a lot of speed and depth.

I agree, the proposed solution is simplistic.  The fact is that we had Jeffcoat, Westerman and Oka last year, and Roh is really only a replacement for one of them.  I like Corney, and I'm happy to see him play more, but it seems to me like we would have to add another DE if we drop Oka, and if want it to create cap room, it means a rookie.  

Maybe Casher is that guy, but on paper, that leaves us with a weaker pass rush in exchange for a more effective MLB.  Maybe it's worth it, but it's a trade-off not a pure upgrade.  


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 06, 2018, 03:51:52 PM
How the heck are we paying Okpalaugo 30K more than C Hughes is making...

He's a very good player, but that's all-star money.

you want a guy bad enough you gotta break out the cheque book...seems like a lot when you compare to a guy like Hughes though.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/bombers-sign-tristan-okpalaugo-1.3974410 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/bombers-sign-tristan-okpalaugo-1.3974410)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on March 06, 2018, 04:04:20 PM
If it comes down to Oka or Muamba, I'll take Muamba every time and it's not even close.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 06, 2018, 04:46:29 PM
Crazy thought worth some discussion:I don't think Walters is that kind of GM, but I'm wondering how concerned Walters even is about the cap. I mean, if this truly is our all-in year, are we willing to pay the fine of going over this one time? #winninginthenameof


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bluengold204 on March 06, 2018, 04:53:40 PM
Crazy thought worth some discussion:I don't think Walters is that kind of GM, but I'm wondering how concerned Walters even is about the cap. I mean, if this truly is our all-in year, are we willing to pay the fine of going over this one time? #winninginthenameof

I'm ok with this


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: thunderNlightning on March 06, 2018, 05:08:53 PM
Crazy thought worth some discussion:I don't think Walters is that kind of GM, but I'm wondering how concerned Walters even is about the cap. I mean, if this truly is our all-in year, are we willing to pay the fine of going over this one time? #winninginthenameof

When you are in what is it now a 27 year drought for a championship in an 8-9 team league during that span, it's time to start taking the odd chance and do what you need to do when your are this close.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 06, 2018, 05:14:48 PM
Run a really short PR, don't expand it in the fall, and be proactive with the 6 gaming of high ticket players, and institute a pre-practice roster :0 . 

But seriously, if there has ever been a time use all of the $100k buffer, its now.  Heck, I'd even consider losing the 2019 first rounder because if it all works out, its just a second rounder really...  that's an additional $300K in cap space, more than enough to sign another player or two...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 06, 2018, 05:18:11 PM
Crazy thought worth some discussion:I don't think Walters is that kind of GM, but I'm wondering how concerned Walters even is about the cap. I mean, if this truly is our all-in year, are we willing to pay the fine of going over this one time? #winninginthenameof
I agree...go over the cap a little if needed.  Walters always has SMS money left over at the end of the season, so instead of giving out bonuses for the follow season, use that money all for this season. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 06, 2018, 05:18:19 PM
Yah.  That is a pretty good chunk of money.  I like OKA but with Jeffcoat in there and the opportunity to have a dominant canadian LB if he has to go so be it...

Agreed. A quality MLB (and of the NAT variety) is what the defense is missing. Okapalaugo would be a considerable loss but I think Muamba fills a more important need on defense right now.

Crazy thought worth some discussion:I don't think Walters is that kind of GM, but I'm wondering how concerned Walters even is about the cap. I mean, if this truly is our all-in year, are we willing to pay the fine of going over this one time? #winninginthenameof

If exceeding the cap can be avoided, though, that is preferable.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on March 06, 2018, 05:37:08 PM
Crazy thought worth some discussion:I don't think Walters is that kind of GM, but I'm wondering how concerned Walters even is about the cap. I mean, if this truly is our all-in year, are we willing to pay the fine of going over this one time? #winninginthenameof

I'm extremely against this. Walters needs to continue to build a perennial contender. Going over the cap not only incurs financial penalties for an organization that doesn't make much money in regular, non-Grey Cup seasons, but it also impacts next year because Walters wouldn't be able to sign/extend players in the fall/winter of 2018 for 2019. That's not good. I want to win a Grey Cup too, but we will get back in the winner's circle by fielding a consistently competitive team every year. You do that with careful cap management and patience. Part of the reason for our drought is because we'd follow up a great year with three bad ones and this is exactly the thinking that will yield those results.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Jesse on March 06, 2018, 05:38:04 PM
Crazy thought worth some discussion:I don't think Walters is that kind of GM, but I'm wondering how concerned Walters even is about the cap. I mean, if this truly is our all-in year, are we willing to pay the fine of going over this one time? #winninginthenameof

This is what I would do, not sure about Walters.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue72 on March 06, 2018, 05:38:53 PM
Walters and MOS know that they have to go all out this year as next year is there final year of contract with this team and it will take more then a first round playoff to ask for a new contract. With that it is surprising that we never really improved on our D coaching as it was our weak spot last year.
We have added a lot of players on D so far but the MLB spot hurt us last year and with putting Knox there this year is a big ????  MOS said he was happy with the new guys that they brought in end of last year and this year at LB but we have heard that from him before. As of now I think the weak spot is LB and maybe coaching as we will have one coach being in charge of the line and LB and a new coach in the back field. Plus we are hoping that we don't see the bend but don't break D from Hall again.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 06, 2018, 05:39:42 PM
So, you are saying HM was dropped because Jones had a younger, cheaper Nat alternative at MLB?  And that Popp dumped Muamba because they had a legit Nat MLB to replace him?  Every player you listed was replaced for performance reasons, they lost their jobs on the field, not based solely on a contract...

Sure Aards whatever... ??? ::). When we release Okpa or someone else to create the SMS to sign Muamba will you feel that Okpa was released for performance or will dawn rise on marble head.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 06, 2018, 05:41:29 PM
If it comes down to Oka or Muamba, I'll take Muamba every time and it's not even close.

Especially if Oka is being paid 180k. I really like him, but he is a prime candidate to be a SMS casualty.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 06, 2018, 05:46:48 PM
Maybe the delay here is Walters trying to negotiate some players restructuring their contracts to make room for Muamba. Like US players taking less in exchange for a bigger bonus, which they pay less tax on.  I believe Medlock and Bryant did that a couple years ago.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 06, 2018, 06:07:18 PM
Maybe the delay here is Walters trying to negotiate some players restructuring their contracts to make room for Muamba. Like US players taking less in exchange for a bigger bonus, which they pay less tax on.  I believe Medlock and Bryant did that a couple years ago.

Nah. Sign Muamba and then deal with any restructuring effort. You can't worry about the 2nd step before ensuring the 1st step.

As has been mentioned we could go over the SMS by $99,999 and just accept the fine. While I'm not suggesting that as the best course of action it gives us some room to manoeuver.

Teams budget injury costs and some expectation of  injuries resulting with players placed on 6 game IR. The downside is the loss of those players, the upside is it frees up some SMS.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 06, 2018, 06:20:23 PM
Nah. Sign Muamba and then deal with any restructuring effort. You can't worry about the 2nd step before ensuring the 1st step.

As has been mentioned we could go over the SMS by $99,999 and just accept the fine. While I'm not suggesting that as the best course of action it gives us some room to manoeuver.

Teams budget injury costs and some expectation of  injuries resulting with players placed on 6 game IR. The downside is the loss of those players, the upside is it frees up some SMS.


Okay well you can dismiss the idea, but definitely wouldn't surprise me of Walters is talking to Oka and a few other guys about restructuring their contracts. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 06, 2018, 06:29:59 PM
i would hope...and like to think Opo is open to that, and Walter's is doing that as he is a Key part of the defensive front and his veteran leadership can't be dismissed


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 06, 2018, 06:44:51 PM
I'm extremely against this. Walters needs to continue to build a perennial contender. Going over the cap not only incurs financial penalties for an organization that doesn't make much money in regular, non-Grey Cup seasons, but it also impacts next year because Walters wouldn't be able to sign/extend players in the fall/winter of 2018 for 2019. That's not good. I want to win a Grey Cup too, but we will get back in the winner's circle by fielding a consistently competitive team every year. You do that with careful cap management and patience. Part of the reason for our drought is because we'd follow up a great year with three bad ones and this is exactly the thinking that will yield those results.


Is it, though? The last time what you described happened was 2007 and 2011. They weren't the result of going over the cap, they were the result of awful management and players overachieving and then underachieving (e.g. Swaggerville). We might lose some expensive pieces after winning a cup, but 1) the CFL is extremely fluid, with players bouncing around on 1 year contracts anyway, 2) we need to constantly be able to replace these players with new recruits on ELCs anyway (our ability to do that is debatable I guess). Moe Leggett and Andrew Harris aren't going to be here forever no matter how well we manage, and 3) winning the cup will have the same, if not better, effect as being consistently good, for the financials. If we have 5 seasons in a row above 500 making the playoffs but have no championship, that is not going to bring back the hordes of fans lost from decades of ineptitude. Winning a cup can.  I think that even if we won the cup next year it would get butts in the seats no matter how we perform the next year.

I'm not suggesting we have a mercenary team, but if we blow the cap by 50k to sign Henoc Muamba and risk losing a few vets the next year but I get to ask for a 2018 Grey Cup champs hoodie for Christmas, whatever!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on March 06, 2018, 07:08:16 PM
Is it, though? The last time what you described happened was 2007 and 2011. They weren't the result of going over the cap, they were the result of awful management and players overachieving and then underachieving (e.g. Swaggerville). We might lose some expensive pieces after winning a cup, but 1) the CFL is extremely fluid, with players bouncing around on 1 year contracts anyway, 2) we need to constantly be able to replace these players with new recruits on ELCs anyway (our ability to do that is debatable I guess). Moe Leggett and Andrew Harris aren't going to be here forever no matter how well we manage, and 3) winning the cup will have the same, if not better, effect as being consistently good, for the financials. If we have 5 seasons in a row above 500 making the playoffs but have no championship, that is not going to bring back the hordes of fans lost from decades of ineptitude. Winning a cup can.  I think that even if we won the cup next year it would get butts in the seats no matter how we perform the next year.

I'm not suggesting we have a mercenary team, but if we blow the cap by 50k to sign Henoc Muamba and risk losing a few vets the next year but I get to ask for a 2018 Grey Cup champs hoodie for Christmas, whatever!

I would suggest that a better strategy would be to sign Henoc Muamba and find a way to save 50K elsewhere (assuming that that's the overage amount as used in your example). I just prefer a more calculated methodical approach to team building. I believe winning a Grey Cup (or multiple Grey Cups) is a symptom of having a competitive team. There is some luck and timing involved, so all you can do is keep fielding consistently good teams. I really wouldn't recommend taking from 2019 to try to win in 2018.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 06, 2018, 07:19:44 PM
I would suggest that a better strategy would be to sign Henoc Muamba and find a way to save 50K elsewhere (assuming that that's the overage amount as used in your example). I just prefer a more calculated methodical approach to team building. I believe winning a Grey Cup (or multiple Grey Cups) is a symptom of having a competitive team. There is some luck and timing involved, so all you can do is keep fielding consistently good teams. I really wouldn't recommend taking from 2019 to try to win in 2018.

Agree 100% with this approach, I want a competitive team each and every year.  Going over their spending limit for this year's team could mean not retaining 2-3 key pieces for next year's team.  If they continue on like they are now the G.C.'s will come shortly.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 06, 2018, 07:40:12 PM
I think you guys might be a little more optimistic than I am, or maybe I'm just jaded after so many years. I view CFL teams as cyclical, and I think we are peaking. While you can throw out a team like Calgary out there that has been probably the only model of a consistently good team for as long as I've followed the league, it is far more likely that we could do your conservative approach and lose the 3-4 key pieces anyway due to age or players moving on to higher contracts no matter how much cap space you leave for them.

I think Walters has played that chess match since he started and it has paid dividends, but the time is now. I don't want to suck again before we win, lol.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 06, 2018, 07:56:37 PM
I would suggest that a better strategy would be to sign Henoc Muamba and find a way to save 50K elsewhere (assuming that that's the overage amount as used in your example). I just prefer a more calculated methodical approach to team building. I believe winning a Grey Cup (or multiple Grey Cups) is a symptom of having a competitive team. There is some luck and timing involved, so all you can do is keep fielding consistently good teams. I really wouldn't recommend taking from 2019 to try to win in 2018.

In general, I agree with your philosophy.  However, given the pending expiry of the CBA (including potentially withholding off season payments) and the proliferation of one year contracts, I think this may be the year to be more aggressive than normal.

I'm not saying to go over the top, beggaring Peter to pay Paul, but playing a little closer to the edge in 2018 might have a slight dampening effect on 2019, but probably not any longer than that.  But even if we push the envelope this year, it's certainly no guarantee to end the drought. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 06, 2018, 08:03:57 PM
In general, I agree with your philosophy.  However, given the pending expiry of the CBA (including potentially withholding off season payments) and the proliferation of one year contracts, I think this may be the year to be more aggressive than normal.

I'm not saying to go over the top, beggaring Peter to pay Paul, but playing a little closer to the edge in 2018 might have a slight dampening effect on 2019, but probably not any longer than that.  But even if we push the envelope this year, it's certainly no guarantee to end the drought. 

That's true, and so is that there is no guarantee that we will be immediately removed from contention for 2-3 years if we go to (/over) the cap by season's end if management is prudent at retaining the "most key" players and replacing ones we will inevitably lose with new talent.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 06, 2018, 08:10:03 PM
The only way playing over the line costs us long term is if one year contracts are eliminated in the next CBA. SBG, I was never a fan of playing fast and loose with the SMS as it had a detrimental effect on continuity. One year contracts have been a game changer though and blowing the wad one year is no longer a 2 or 3 year cap hell sentence. We have seen many teams do complete rebuilds in the span of a year now. I think the build and be patient ideology can still work, but it is no longer the end all be all of franchise success year in and year out. I kind of hate that because boneheads like Jones who should be languishing in cap hell and last place every year because they are horrible managers get what amounts to a do over every year. Really, and I hate to say it, this is a time where a guy like Taman could succeed.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue girl on March 06, 2018, 08:13:45 PM
If it comes down to a choice between Muamba and Okapaluogo I'll take Muamba. After all I'd rather have an overpriced Canadian than an overpriced American. And after a 27 year drought if it will win us a Grey Cup I would definitely not mind going over the cap.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on March 06, 2018, 08:35:48 PM
If it comes down to a choice between Muamba and Okapaluogo I'll take Muamba. After all I'd rather have an overpriced Canadian than an overpriced American. And after a 27 year drought if it will win us a Grey Cup I would definitely not mind going over the cap.

THIS!

It seems we have much better luck finding American DEs than Canadian MLBs.

I agree with BG


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: kkc60 on March 06, 2018, 09:01:45 PM
THIS!

It seems we have much better luck finding American DEs than Canadian MLBs.

I agree with BG
We have much better with DL than LBs in general 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 06, 2018, 09:19:19 PM
THIS!

It seems we have much better luck finding American DEs than Canadian MLBs.

I agree with BG
I agree, but I also think there's a better way to get it done without cutting Okpalaugo.  Get Okpalaugo to take a pay cut in line with other top DE's around the league and ask a few American players to take a lower base salary in return for a bigger bonus, which is taxed at a lower rate.  Plan to stick a few guys on the 6 game IR throughout the season, like Chris Jones does. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gobombersgo on March 06, 2018, 09:38:34 PM
With the new CBA, are we all in agreement that the SMS will go up more than 50 grand? Walters shud try to sign Muamba in 175-180 range for this year and 220-230 for next.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 06, 2018, 09:41:21 PM
With the new CBA, are we all in agreement that the SMS will go up more than 50 grand? Walters shud try to sign Muamba in 175-180 range for this year and 220-230 for next.
I doubt Muamba or his agent fall for that because contracts aren?t guaranteed.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gobombersgo on March 06, 2018, 09:46:42 PM
I doubt Muamba or his agent fall for that because contracts aren?t guaranteed.

They fell for the last 2 contracts they signed, LOL.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 06, 2018, 09:50:14 PM
They fell for the last 2 contracts they signed, LOL.
We?re they both backloaded like the one you proposed?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 07, 2018, 03:20:51 AM
With the new CBA, are we all in agreement that the SMS will go up more than 50 grand? Walters shud try to sign Muamba in 175-180 range for this year and 220-230 for next.

Henoc won't play for cheap this year in exchange for more next year....no one will. We could offer him a 100 million dollars next year and all he would care about is year one of the deal. It's the only year any player can be confident the team will honor.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 07, 2018, 04:35:54 AM
Restructuring deals to upfront bonus money is risky with players you don't know about, or ones that may end up on the 6 game with no SMS relief on the bonuses paid.

If the player is proven in your system, and durable, then there is no issue paying a large part of his deal up front in an advantageous tax situation. 

By what has been said regarding the tax benefits, Okpaluago's deal could have probably 30K trimmed off it with the tax advantages...  I'd much rather take the SMS risk of a long term injury rather than trying to replace his contribution...

I don't think Walters wants to pay the top dollar, beat all offers deal that Hardaway is probably holding out for.  Montreal is obviously going to pull out all the stops to land him, and they have big ratio problems.  Hervey tried hard to land him last time, and signed his bro already.  And they lost a ratio piece in Ianuzzi. 

I'm feeling that if Muamba signs here, it will be for less money but for a better fit.  That said, playing with Sol. E. isn't a bad fit.  I don't think BC has a chance at making the playoffs this year, but stranger things have happened.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 07, 2018, 10:56:18 AM
Restructuring deals to upfront bonus money is risky with players you don't know about, or ones that may end up on the 6 game with no SMS relief on the bonuses paid.

If the player is proven in your system, and durable, then there is no issue paying a large part of his deal up front in an advantageous tax situation. 

By what has been said regarding the tax benefits, Okpaluago's deal could have probably 30K trimmed off it with the tax advantages...  I'd much rather take the SMS risk of a long term injury rather than trying to replace his contribution...

I don't think Walters wants to pay the top dollar, beat all offers deal that Hardaway is probably holding out for.  Montreal is obviously going to pull out all the stops to land him, and they have big ratio problems.  Hervey tried hard to land him last time, and signed his bro already.  And they lost a ratio piece in Ianuzzi. 

I'm feeling that if Muamba signs here, it will be for less money but for a better fit.  That said, playing with Sol. E. isn't a bad fit.  I don't think BC has a chance at making the playoffs this year, but stranger things have happened.



I'd say right now there's about an 80% chance that Henoc signs with the Bombers, and it will be because we are a contender that is offering almost the same amount of money as Montreal. If Montreal blows the wad and outbids us by more than 15k Henoc will go there, as many players in the same situation would.

Edmonton and BC are non factors in the Henoc hunt right now and Montreal is slowly losing pace as well. I would be surprised if we don't sign Henoc.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 07, 2018, 01:10:35 PM
We have the advantage over BC and Montreal , in that we offer the opportunity to earn playoff and GC money and neither one of those teams do, so Montreal outbidding us by $15k shouldn't be a big deal, as he's going to make that up in playoff money.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 07, 2018, 07:43:42 PM
Some interesting comments on this long string about Muamba.

Some are saying Jones was not too smart in having to release Muamba due to having an SMS problem

If the Bombers sign Muamba and need to release Okpalaugo to make SMS room, do we see the same comments about Walters?

I'm not a fan of Jones but he made a decision to try and improve his team at the QB position. That resulted in needing to release Muamba because of SMS not performance issues.

The Bombers would be trying to improve their overall roster by signing Muamba and there could be SMS consequences.

I don't know if we'll end up signing Muamba or whether we'd have to release Okapaulgo to balance SMS. Oka is an excellent player but MLB is our weakness and the ratio impact of Muamba is critical.

Anyway. Just saying some comments / perspectives are outright silly when another teams does something that we might end up doing essentially the same thing.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 07, 2018, 08:40:55 PM
it wasn't just the attempt to upgrade at QB that has Jones looking to cut salary...It's the 500+ tied up in his D-line...close to 400k for Carter and Roosevalt...110k for owens..possible 130k for Messam if he hits his bonuses..200+k for Labatte..prob a good 160k for Bond...as well as the zero depth behind any starter and the need to address those issues that caused it...He weakened his National content with expelling Muamba and replaced it with a far lesser talent in Hurl..who isn't coming cheap.

Theres got to be more slashing and gashing there yet


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 07, 2018, 09:00:22 PM
it wasn't just the attempt to upgrade at QB that has Jones looking to cut salary...It's the 500+ tied up in his D-line...close to 400k for Carter and Roosevalt...110k for owens..possible 130k for Messam if he hits his bonuses..200+k for Labatte..prob a good 160k for Bond...as well as the zero depth behind any starter and the need to address those issues that caused it...He weakened his National content with expelling Muamba and replaced it with a far lesser talent in Hurl..who isn't coming cheap.

Theres got to be more slashing and gashing there yet

Doesn't change the fact that he made roster moves he felt would improve his roster overall. That required off setting changes in how to balance his SMS.

I'm not saying I like Jones or think he's a good GM.

Just saying the Bombers could just as easily be faced with some difficult decisions if we sign Muamba and don't have cap space.

Bombers don't exactly have great depth at a multitude of positions so that's hardly a comparison to make.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bombergal on March 08, 2018, 12:54:57 PM
From what I am understanding it's Muamba's agent more than Muamba who is stalling this whole deal.  I thought we would have had him signed by now...maybe he took more convincing to re-join than we realize, but when he was here in 2013 the team was brutal and completely different than now.  He was the shining light now there's a really awesome supporting cast and we need a talent like him at MLB.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: fansince79 on March 08, 2018, 01:37:03 PM
Okay well you can dismiss the idea, but definitely wouldn't surprise me of Walters is talking to Oka and a few other guys about restructuring their contracts. 


With the Bombers currently going after Muamba you can pretty much guarantee that he?s already asked guys to restructure.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 08, 2018, 02:03:26 PM

With the Bombers currently going after Muamba you can pretty much guarantee that he?s already asked guys to restructure.

Why would players agree to restructure on the premise we MIGHT sign another player. IMO that would be an unethical thing to ask players before it happens.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 08, 2018, 02:09:03 PM
Why would players agree to restructure on the premise we MIGHT sign another player. IMO that would be an unethical thing to ask players before it happens.

You can plan for a signing by saying "If we sign player x..."

Restructuring in this case is not going to be "take less so we can sign the player", but rather "can we give you more money up front to take advantage of tax laws and get you the same pay, just more of it guaranteed". 

What player ever would say no to that?  "You want to guarantee me money upfront?  And I make exactly the same? So that we can make the team better, and improve my chances at playoff bonuses?  Nah, I'll pass"

If we sign HM, we will probably see a player or two "released" and resigned immediately after...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 08, 2018, 02:19:46 PM
You can plan for a signing by saying "If we sign player x..."

Restructuring in this case is not going to be "take less so we can sign the player", but rather "can we give you more money up front to take advantage of tax laws and get you the same pay, just more of it guaranteed". 

What player ever would say no to that?  "You want to guarantee me money upfront?  And I make exactly the same? So that we can make the team better, and improve my chances at playoff bonuses?  Nah, I'll pass"

If we sign HM, we will probably see a player or two "released" and resigned immediately after...

You can always plan but the possibility of a new signing is irrelevant. Up front money to take advantage of tax laws is something teams constantly use in salary management and not exclusive to new or potential signings.

Yes we could see a player released or traded if we sign HM. We're not sure how much space we have or don't have

All that said we signed about 9 players before FA and another 8 or so in free agency. Many of the players that weren't free agents are 2nd year players on entry contracts.

I doubt there is a long list of players that could restructure high value contracts as you suggest.

Nevis and Okapaualgo are the 2 most likely to be impacted.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 08, 2018, 02:24:17 PM
You can always plan but the possibility of a new signing is irrelevant. Up front money to take advantage of tax laws is something teams constantly use in salary management and not exclusive to new or potential signings.

Yes we could see a player released or traded if we sign HM. We're not sure how much space we have or don't have

All that said we signed about 9 players before FA and another 8 or so in free agency. Many of the players that weren't free agents are 2nd year players on entry contracts.

I doubt there is a long list of players that could restructure high value contracts as you suggest.

Nevis and Okapaualgo are the 2 most likely to be impacted.

While there is an SMS advantage of a large signing bonus increasing a players take home, there is also the disadvantage on teh SMS that the entire bonus applies, regardless of the number of games a player appears in.  If he is cut, or goes on the 6 game, that bonus still counts 100% to the cap. 

So, if you are going to give out bonuses, you'd better be sure that player is going to play all the games for you. 

That said, I'm sure we paid out signing bonuses, but I doubt that we paid every player the max possible signing bonus.  There will be some spots with wiggle room, if need be.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 08, 2018, 11:36:36 PM
A GM in the CFL needs a degree in economics and needs to be a chess whiz and know how to play stud poker!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 09, 2018, 11:14:32 AM
While there is an SMS advantage of a large signing bonus increasing a players take home, there is also the disadvantage on teh SMS that the entire bonus applies, regardless of the number of games a player appears in.  If he is cut, or goes on the 6 game, that bonus still counts 100% to the cap. 

So, if you are going to give out bonuses, you'd better be sure that player is going to play all the games for you. 

That said, I'm sure we paid out signing bonuses, but I doubt that we paid every player the max possible signing bonus.  There will be some spots with wiggle room, if need be.

Max possible signing bonus is 100% up front. Therefore I think it's almost a guarantee that we haven't paid a single player max possible signing bonus....and I'm ultra positive we will never sign a player and pay them 100% up front. You do something dumb like that and you players who retire, or who will not be scared of getting cut and play with zero motivation.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 09, 2018, 12:37:43 PM
Max possible signing bonus is 100% up front. Therefore I think it's almost a guarantee that we haven't paid a single player max possible signing bonus....and I'm ultra positive we will never sign a player and pay them 100% up front. You do something dumb like that and you players who retire, or who will not be scared of getting cut and play with zero motivation.

Sure, the max possible is 100%, and there isn't much of a possibility that a GM wo9uld do it, but to ague the point you have obviously decided to create, they Could.  And sure, the player is then free to retire, change his mind about playing, and/or have zero motivation.

But, reasonably, do you think any GM would offer that kind of contract to a player they were worried about doing any of those things?  Giving a player ANY substantial bonus creates that exact issue.  As soon as a player has any money in pocket, motivation reduces.  Look at Korey Banks.  Give him cash up front, and then tell him he has a reduced role.  He still had substantial money he could earn by just showing up, but he decided not to, and never played a down of football again. 

And, using your standpoint of 100% bonus, there is still money somewhat substantial money to be earned for playoffs.

But you know I'm not talking about giving players a maximum bonus in the literal sense you have decided to argue,  but the maximum you could reasonably give.  With a player like Medlock, that could well be 100%, he's not going anywhere, of suffer any of the issues you portray.  Or Wild, Dressler or Nichols, although not being able to claim any of thier salary if he hits the 6 game might not be a wise situation.  They chose to restructure Bryant as well, knowing he would likely play every game and still be motivated. 

Most of the players on this team are character guys, and I'b the majority could be signed to 100% bonus deal without any of the issues you propose becoming a concern.  Just because the $ are in their pocket would not reduce motivation or cause them to play scared.  Just because they've already received pay, doesn't mean they would not want go out there and earn it.

By your logic, no coach would show up to work after signing a contract.  Regardless what they accomplish on the field, that contract is guaranteed to be paid.  What incentive do they have to come to work?  Even more than players, they can have multi year deals that they will get paid, even if the fail miserably.  Yet GM's hand out multi year guaranteed contract to them, expecting them to come in motivated every day.

There is SMS space to be had in restructured deals, we've done it before.  And with a team that has legit GC hopes, improving the team's chances by adding top talent is in a players best interest, and if taking a restructured deal that includes more upfront money means making more money and having a better chance at post season cash, then any of our current roster is probably a safe bet to do that with.



   


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Tehedra on March 09, 2018, 01:11:34 PM
Could you pay upfront with clawback clauses for games played? I mean signing bonuses in regular industry are usually owed for X years or something to that affect.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 09, 2018, 01:15:59 PM
Could you pay upfront with clawback clauses for games played? I mean signing bonuses in regular industry are usually owed for X years or something to that affect.

Once the money has been paid, it goes against your SMS...  which is one reason why there is a mess in BC right now with the Cummings deal.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 09, 2018, 01:18:22 PM
Once the money has been paid, it goes against your SMS...  which is one reason why there is a mess in BC right now with the Cummings deal.
Farhan Lalji said the Lions never paid the bonus to Cummings. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 09, 2018, 09:45:40 PM
"The sense I have of this is that the longer it goes on, that he (Henoc Muamba) may take the higher offer from the #AlsMTL (over the #Bombers)" - @JDunk12 #CFL via @sportscage


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on March 09, 2018, 10:51:59 PM
Montreal is one cool city........it's gotta be a tough decision


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bunker on March 10, 2018, 12:36:41 AM
"The sense I have of this is that the longer it goes on, that he (Henoc Muamba) may take the higher offer from the #AlsMTL (over the #Bombers)" - @JDunk12 #CFL via @sportscage
My own opinion is that he was always going to Montreal, because they will offer him more money. He was only using the bomber's offer to help pry more money out of Kavis.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on March 10, 2018, 12:51:35 AM
I highly doubt Winnipeg signs him.  He just playing us to land in Montreal.  I don't care, I am not a fan of his.  I would rather that he would finally go away.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: thunderNlightning on March 10, 2018, 01:21:42 AM
Yeah, it has that look to this as he will be signing in MTL as well. Meh, we move on and hope JSK can get it done there and mr injury prone can stay healthy all season.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 10, 2018, 02:09:53 AM
My own opinion is that he was always going to Montreal, because they will offer him more money. He was only using the bomber's offer to help pry more money out of Kavis.
That's fine, he and westerman can sit in their hotel rooms while out of the playoffs counting their money, while the Bombers make extra money playing in the playoffs and grey cup. Wonder what the offer difference is and when you factor in playoff money is there that much of a difference?? Even if there was, how much is it worth to you to play for a loading franchise vs a winning one??


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bunker on March 10, 2018, 03:18:24 AM
That's fine, he and westerman can sit in their hotel rooms while out of the playoffs counting their money, while the Bombers make extra money playing in the playoffs and grey cup. Wonder what the offer difference is and when you factor in playoff money is there that much of a difference?? Even if there was, how much is it worth to you to play for a loading franchise vs a winning one??
From CFLdb:

What is the playoff compensation for CFL games? How much are CFL players paid for playoff games? What is the history of CFL playoff compensation?

For the five year term of the 2014 CBA, playoff and Grey Cup compensation is as follows:
First Place Standing (Bye)   $3,400
Semi-Final Participation   $3,400
Division Championship Participation   $3,600
Grey Cup Runner-up   $8,000
Grey Cup Winner   $16,000

So the most you can make seems to be 23,000. I wouldn't be surprised if Henoc is telling Kavis that if he offers him $23,001 more than the bomber offer, he'll sign in Montreal.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 10, 2018, 04:20:37 AM
then for the sake of a dollar, he'd be a loser!!! He can go to montreal, and be part of that gong show and be the laughing stock of the CFL...most players play the game to win, he ain't gonna do that there.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 10, 2018, 04:58:18 AM
When I started this thread in mid February, I had no idea we would still be waiting on his decision three weeks later and counting.....and we are still debating the odds of him signing in the Peg or Montreal!??   I do not recall another time or player negotiation similar to this one in the past....anyone else know if this is a one of?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on March 10, 2018, 07:19:12 AM
From CFLdb:

What is the playoff compensation for CFL games? How much are CFL players paid for playoff games? What is the history of CFL playoff compensation?

For the five year term of the 2014 CBA, playoff and Grey Cup compensation is as follows:
First Place Standing (Bye)   $3,400
Semi-Final Participation   $3,400
Division Championship Participation   $3,600
Grey Cup Runner-up   $8,000
Grey Cup Winner   $16,000

So the most you can make seems to be 23,000. I wouldn't be surprised if Henoc is telling Kavis that if he offers him $23,001 more than the bomber offer, he'll sign in Montreal.

Do players really take this into serious consideration when signing a CFL contract ? aards ?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 10, 2018, 12:22:29 PM
Yeah they do actually.
Especially when you are coming into your second contract or a mid level one.

When you can guarantee yourself at minimum 7k on top of your salary that goes a long way for some guys..


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 10, 2018, 01:38:42 PM
So much negativity.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 10, 2018, 01:40:48 PM
Then on top of the playoff money if there are any milestones or performance bonuses in the contract HM is going to sign wherever he thinks he can reach them...playing in the East may be an advantage for him on any incentives. 

Every dollar counts..

Plus I am not even sure if he is married but if he is he needs to look at whatever his wife does for a living and how accessible jobs are for her (again assuming this is the case) and she is moving with him to his new city.

Total household income as they set their family up for financial sucess.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bunker on March 10, 2018, 01:43:57 PM
When I started this thread in mid February, I had no idea we would still be waiting on his decision three weeks later and counting.....and we are still debating the odds of him signing in the Peg or Montreal!??   I do not recall another time or player negotiation similar to this one in the past....anyone else know if this is a one of?
Its not the exact situation, but I recall we had about 100 pages in the forum about where Collaros would sign, when he was leaving the Argos.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BBRT on March 10, 2018, 03:36:20 PM
Its not the exact situation, but I recall we had about 100 pages in the forum about where Collaros would sign, when he was leaving the Argos.

Latest rumor de jour is that it is close to a done deal in Montreal - just rumor on 13th man but may be getting closer to the truth. IMHO he will just go where the most money is regardless of what the team looks like etc. Maybe that is to be expected who knows. Just hope he signs soon so we can move on.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 123James321 on March 10, 2018, 04:28:28 PM
Ill be slightly disappointed if we don't Land Muamba. He's a hell of a player. I recall him making a lot of tackles for a loss in his final year here and shutting down the run game. Not to mention it would allow us to start Flanders over Matt Coates on Offence.

But it wont be the end of the world, we have some exciting looking prospects at LB, and JSK and Wild will be very good, and we still have all of our draft picks for added Canadian depth.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 10, 2018, 04:31:33 PM
Personally, I'm in a win-win situation.  I'll be happy if we sign Muamba, but if we don't, I'm excited to see what JSK can do at MLB...I think he'll be a stud. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on March 10, 2018, 04:49:22 PM
Ill be slightly disappointed if we don't Land Muamba. He's a hell of a player. I recall him making a lot of tackles for a loss in his final year here and shutting down the run game. Not to mention it would allow us to start Flanders over Matt Coates on Offence.

But it wont be the end of the world, we have some exciting looking prospects at LB, and JSK and Wild will be very good, and we still have all of our draft picks for added Canadian depth.

Don't be disappointed, he has never been the same player since he came back from the NFL.  He is over hyped and expensive, let Montreal take him and find out they screwed up again.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 10, 2018, 04:59:03 PM
Exactly. The dude is over rated and if it wasn't for his passport, we wouldn't even be talking about him.

He has ALWAYS been lead by the $$$ , so no doubt krazy kavis signs him to a ridiculous contract, all on the way to a 4-14 season!!! the bar around here is a 12-6 season and winning the WSF!!! good luck in montreal, but you're going to need more than luck there...you got nobody under centre and, even if you did, who's going to catch or run the ball for you?? Your team isn't going to score 20 points in any game it plays, so enjoy yourself losing in 2018!!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on March 10, 2018, 05:51:13 PM
Exactly. The dude is over rated and if it wasn't for his passport, we wouldn't even be talking about him.

He has ALWAYS been lead by the $$$ , so no doubt krazy kavis signs him to a ridiculous contract, all on the way to a 4-14 season!!! the bar around here is a 12-6 season and winning the WSF!!! good luck in montreal, but you're going to need more than luck there...you got nobody under centre and, even if you did, who's going to catch or run the ball for you?? Your team isn't going to score 20 points in any game it plays, so enjoy yourself losing in 2018!!
BINGO re passport


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 11, 2018, 12:14:02 AM
He will get an opportunity to play a lot of downs in MTL...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 11, 2018, 12:27:03 AM
He will get an opportunity to play a lot of downs in MTL...
lol yup he?ll be on the field 45 minutes a game!  :D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 11, 2018, 12:44:57 AM
He will get an opportunity to play a lot of downs in MTL...
You're right, Walters should have used that for negotiating as regardless of what Montreal signs him for, when you convert that figure to an hourly wage, he won't be making minimum wage in Montreal!! He ll make more money per minute played here in winnipeg by a landslide!!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on March 11, 2018, 01:01:21 AM
I follow along....but not nearly as close as some of you guys and gals, could one of you tell me haVE we seen another case where it takes this long for a player to decide?



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 11, 2018, 02:53:01 AM
Not since his famous cross country tour of a couple years ago. Face it, the guys a drama queen that thrives on attention--he never got hugged enough when he was a kid!!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bustamente on March 11, 2018, 03:17:29 AM
Still thinking that when he was here Walters gave him a take it or leave it not wanting to get in a bidding war and well Muamba lefted without signing it.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: thunderNlightning on March 11, 2018, 03:41:34 AM
Still thinking that when he was here Walters gave him a take it or leave it not wanting to get in a bidding war and well Muamba lefted without signing it.

If so, then why would he have not signed in Mtl already? Unless BC has now jumped in the bidding war.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bustamente on March 11, 2018, 04:56:04 AM
If so, then why would he have not signed in Mtl already? Unless BC has now jumped in the bidding war.

JMO I think his agent is testing the NFL temperature to see if there is still a chance, free agency starts this week and any team not getting what they want might throw him a bone, highly unlikely but you never know.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 11, 2018, 12:06:45 PM
I can?t wait for this charade to end.....is this a real fishing trip or are we going to still be cutting bait a month from now....???   


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 11, 2018, 12:35:36 PM
Not since his famous cross country tour of a couple years ago. Face it, the guys a drama queen that thrives on attention--he never got hugged enough when he was a kid!!

He's from the Congo, I'd hate to think what his childhood was actually like.

As for his status, I'd guess Walters has left him with a "take it or leave it" offer for fair value and refuses to get drawn into a bidding war.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on March 11, 2018, 01:01:23 PM
They're waiting for one last grasp at the NFL as players will be released and added in FA this week.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: KINGCHARLES on March 11, 2018, 01:37:55 PM
How hard is it to make a decision when there might only be 3 CFL teams that want you and one that's a contender. The NFL won't be calling anymore, that ship has sailed. I love the idea of Muamba being a Bomber but if he doesn't become a Bomber we should make him public enemy #1. WE SHOULD TREAT HIM HOW WE TREAT OPPOSING TEAMS START NHL PLAYERS! Ex. P.K. Subban.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 11, 2018, 01:41:30 PM
He's from the Congo, I'd hate to think what his childhood was actually like.

As for his status, I'd guess Walters has left him with a "take it or leave it" offer for fair value and refuses to get drawn into a bidding war.
And I respect Walters for not getting into a bidding war. I?m sure he made a fair offer.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blueraid on March 11, 2018, 02:17:16 PM
Walters is refusing to get played and I commend him for it...If Rigmaiden can't come up with a Solly or Bighill for us then I hope Knox works out...Let's sign a player who actually wants to be here and ditch one's whose only motivator is cash


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 11, 2018, 04:25:45 PM
Walters probably gave him a take it or leave it offer, not wanting to get drawn into a bidding war.

Or maybe he gave him a here's our best offer, don't bother countering, because we will not be drawn into a biding war, and the offer will stand until you leave the room, and after that, it may still be available if we haven't changed our minds about our direction, so call first before assuming it is still on the table.

Much better to leave it open ended, with no bargaining. 




Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on March 11, 2018, 08:37:34 PM
Anyone have a source for Walters giving Muamba a "take it or leave it" offer? How 'bout a source for "leaving it open ended with no bargaining"? Maybe a source for "Here's our best offer"? A source for a "Fair Offer" (Fair for who  BTW).

Sounds like folks are guessing then commending Walters for sticking to their guesses.

FTR: I have no inside knowledge of the bargaining or any idea if there are 2 or more suitors or what the numbers are currently. History would suggest however, that Muamba goes where the money is and it won't be a quick process.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on March 11, 2018, 09:11:16 PM

Sounds like folks are guessing then commending Walters for sticking to their guesses.


That is a very common occurrence in many of the threads here.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on March 11, 2018, 09:13:46 PM
Any agreement that the. CFzl could be waiting for the week of the Combine in Winnioeg for an announcement. It seems odd Walters would not sew this up.  Especially since the position has basically been vacant since he left.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 11, 2018, 09:47:33 PM
Or, maybe Muamba is waiting on a response from Walters and company... maybe in their meeting Walters didn't make an offer, just asked what it would take...

regardless, as alluded to above, none of us know what happened or why there hasn't been an announcement.  I won't get too concerned until some announcement is made.

I'm sure that it isn't as easy for a player to make these decisions as everyone assumes, especially if one offer is considerably less than the other and the lower offer being where he'd rather play. We have no idea what his financial obligations are and how that could factor in. I would think that a decision like this is getting the consideration it deserves, the longer it takes just means that it's an important decision.

there does come a time when you have to say, enough is enough, but I don't think we've hit that mark yet, at least not in my opinion...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on March 11, 2018, 10:11:12 PM
It would be hilarious if no CFL team signs him.  ;D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 11, 2018, 11:07:08 PM
It would be hilarious if no CFL team signs him.  ;D

The is always XFL2...

I can't see any scenario where they wait to announce at the combine / CFL week.  The minute the decision is made, it would be announced. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TecnoGenius on March 12, 2018, 12:17:59 AM
It's funny, I watched an old PVR game yesterday, '13 Banjo Bowl, our first win in IGF.  Our MLB corps was Wild + Henoc!  I was thinking, jeez 5 years later and it's like nothing changed (assuming we get HM)   ;D  (kidding!)

Boy, watching '13 games certainly puts '17/'18 WBB in perspective.  It was Goltz at QB and we had like 3 first downs the entire game.  There were like 30 punts by both teams combined.  Our O stunk.  As in pathetic.  OL stunk.  But D was extremely stout.  It was a sack-fest.  Wild was awesome (hopefully he can get back to that form).  They held Sheets 100% in check.  SSK brought pressure every single down, yet not once did Burke adjust and do quickpass, screen or sweep.  Just kept sitting back and taking sacks.

Funny, but if HM doesn't sign, I'm pretty sure '18 BB will have more '13 Riders on the team than players that were '13 Bombers!  Go figure.  With Denmark leaving it's like Wild is the only one left from that era.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: buckzumhoff on March 12, 2018, 01:27:48 AM
=Hes probably asking for the ceiling and so no one is willing to go that far. Its a waiting game .


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Tiger on March 12, 2018, 04:23:51 AM
Wow.  Out of loop for a while.  Cannot believe he has not signed.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 12, 2018, 11:53:41 AM
A lot of speculation as to why Henoc has not signed and most of it is grasping at straws from those who would prefer we not sign him.
Seriously people, Henoc likes to take his time with life and career choices....why do so many people have a problem with that?

Anybody ever think that maybe Henoc is trying to find some stability and a long term football home with this next contract and is heavily weighing his options?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 12, 2018, 12:22:19 PM
A lot of speculation as to why Henoc has not signed and most of it is grasping at straws from those who would prefer we not sign him.
Seriously people, Henoc likes to take his time with life and career choices....why do so many people have a problem with that?

Anybody ever think that maybe Henoc is trying to find some stability and a long term football home with this next contract and is heavily weighing his options?


Unfortunately in today's S.M.S environment reaching for top dollar does not equate to long-term career stability.  Henoc should know this better than anyone as he has become the poster-child for this trend.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on March 12, 2018, 12:50:58 PM
A lot of speculation as to why Henoc has not signed and most of it is grasping at straws from those who would prefer we not sign him.
Seriously people, Henoc likes to take his time with life and career choices....why do so many people have a problem with that?

Anybody ever think that maybe Henoc is trying to find some stability and a long term football home with this next contract and is heavily weighing his options?


Nope, I think he's trying to extract maximum possible dollars with the highest percentage of upfront money he can. That's what he's always done and I see no reason for that approach to change. Part of the reason he's been released twice now is because he's been able to secure really top end dollars by doing this exact song and dance. Good for him as he plays a tough sport but on the other hand, he's not a very endearing figure. I'm honestly not sure if he'd be happier holding the Grey Cup over his head or a freshly-signed contact with a 15% premium.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 12, 2018, 01:26:05 PM
Nope, I think he's trying to extract maximum possible dollars with the highest percentage of upfront money he can. That's what he's always done and I see no reason for that approach to change. Part of the reason he's been released twice now is because he's been able to secure really top end dollars by doing this exact song and dance. Good for him as he plays a tough sport but on the other hand, he's not a very endearing figure. I'm honestly not sure if he'd be happier holding the Grey Cup over his head or a freshly-signed contact with a 15% premium.

I think his answer would be "both of them"....and in his mind as it should be in all pro atheletes he would be a major factor in getting in the Grey Cup in his and his teammates hands...hasn't materialized yet but I am sure he knows at this point the time is running out.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 12, 2018, 01:35:02 PM
Unfortunately in today's S.M.S environment reaching for top dollar does not equate to long-term career stability.  Henoc should know this better than anyone as he has become the poster-child for this trend.

Perhaps, he has realized this now and is just taking some time to come to grips with it.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 12, 2018, 01:54:12 PM
I think his answer would be "both of them"....and in his mind as it should be in all pro atheletes he would be a major factor in getting in the Grey Cup in his and his teammates hands...hasn't materialized yet but I am sure he knows at this point the time is running out.

Agreed. I think it's both. But there has to be some give and take there. A willingness to take less money to help a team win a championship has to be considered, IMO.

Playoff money also has to be considered.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on March 12, 2018, 01:58:53 PM
Agreed. I think it's both. But there has to be some give and take there. A willingness to take less money to help a team win a championship has to be considered, IMO.

Playoff money also has to be considered.

There aren't many athletes that would do this but certainly, Henoc has not fallen into this category in even the slightest of margins, ever.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 12, 2018, 02:11:26 PM
Agreed. I think it's both. But there has to be some give and take there. A willingness to take less money to help a team win a championship has to be considered, IMO.

Playoff money also has to be considered.

It isn't something he has to consider, it's something fans hope for.  I am sure Als fans are hoping he agrees to take less money to help resurrect the franchise.  We need to take a step back and try to view this without the fan goggles.  If a team feels they can do better without a player, they will discard him at a moment's notice.  And when players do take less to help win a championship, in exchange for a good contract down the road, the team doesn't reciprocate with loyalty.  Ask Dressler and Chick. 

Business is business, and Muamba isn't being a tool or blowing smoke up anyone's skirt.  Fans need to serious check their gullibility-meters if they believe every cliche "I was dying to play in Winnipeg" cliche that follows a signing.  At least Henoc and his agent are straightforward about trying to get the very best deal they can. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BBRT on March 12, 2018, 03:53:26 PM
It isn't something he has to consider, it's something fans hope for.  I am sure Als fans are hoping he agrees to take less money to help resurrect the franchise.  We need to take a step back and try to view this without the fan goggles.  If a team feels they can do better without a player, they will discard him at a moment's notice.  And when players do take less to help win a championship, in exchange for a good contract down the road, the team doesn't reciprocate with loyalty.  Ask Dressler and Chick. 

Business is business, and Muamba isn't being a tool or blowing smoke up anyone's skirt.  Fans need to serious check their gullibility-meters if they believe every cliche "I was dying to play in Winnipeg" cliche that follows a signing.  At least Henoc and his agent are straightforward about trying to get the very best deal they can. 

This is 100% correct - When all is said and done it is a business! Muamba will go where he can get the best deal - end of story!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blueraid on March 12, 2018, 03:56:55 PM


Business is business, and Muamba isn't being a tool or blowing smoke up anyone's skirt.  Fans need to serious check their gullibility-meters if they believe every cliche "I was dying to play in Winnipeg" cliche that follows a signing.  At least Henoc and his agent are straightforward about trying to get the very best deal they can. 

I dunno....you might want to check what a couple of other free agents have said when they signed with us in fa...namely Roh and Fenner...Seems they were happy to join the club and said as much???...Money counts for sure but isn't the main criteria for signing for every situation or player


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 12, 2018, 04:13:42 PM
There are so many considerations any individual might be thinking about because football and the best deal possible. None of them are our business and he has every right to consider anything he wants.

He may be looking at continuing his education and non football business opportunities during the off season in several cities.

How a given choice impacts his family and friends and the lifestyle he hopes to achieve.

For all we know he may be deciding to retire from football and moving on with his more permanent career choice.

Decisions will be made at some point. There is zero need to bad mouth anyone about the length of time it takes for an individual to make his choice. It's his choice after all.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 12, 2018, 04:20:07 PM
What's the over/under on number of pages this thread reaches before Muamba makes his decision? 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 12, 2018, 04:25:50 PM
There are so many considerations any individual might be thinking about because football and the best deal possible. None of them are our business and he has every right to consider anything he wants.

He may be looking at continuing his education and non football business opportunities during the off season in several cities.

How a given choice impacts his family and friends and the lifestyle he hopes to achieve.

For all we know he may be deciding to retire from football and moving on with his more permanent career choice.

Decisions will be made at some point. There is zero need to bad mouth anyone about the length of time it takes for an individual to make his choice. It's his choice after all.



How many of us would unexpectedly be out of work due to budget cutbacks, and then be ready and prepared to commit to another job in another city a couple weeks later? Not many, I would suspect. For cripes sakes, it would take most of us a couple weeks just to end our commitments in the place we were leaving.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 12, 2018, 04:26:07 PM
There are players that play purely for the love of the game, and take whatever the team thinks is fair (Wild, Ochocinqo), there are players that want to at least enjoy their jobs, and sign for less with a team that is competitive and has a great atmosphere (Fenner, Bowman) and then there are players where money is everything, and they will sign in the worst situation for a few extra dollars (Muamba, Westerman)

A player has every right to pull down the max paycheque he can.  No issues with that, as long as that is what it is portrayed as.   But when you do, in an SMS league without guaranteed contracts, you become a potential casualty immediately.  Muamba didn't get cut in Mtl or SSK due to on field production, but because he was an easy SMS correction.  Chick, Durant and Dressler in SSK felt the same fate.  Players cut even though they were solid contributors, solely based on price.

If Muamba wants to settle in and be a fixture on a team, and actually finish a contract, maybe getting a team to overpay him isn't the answer.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on March 12, 2018, 04:30:37 PM
Bombers can't afford to miss out on Muamba By: Doug Brown - https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/bombers-cant-afford-to-miss-out-on-muamba-476557463.html


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 12, 2018, 04:40:23 PM
There are players that play purely for the love of the game, and take whatever the team thinks is fair (Wild, Ochocinqo), there are players that want to at least enjoy their jobs, and sign for less with a team that is competitive and has a great atmosphere (Fenner, Bowman) and then there are players where money is everything, and they will sign in the worst situation for a few extra dollars (Muamba, Westerman)

A player has every right to pull down the max paycheque he can.  No issues with that, as long as that is what it is portrayed as.   But when you do, in an SMS league without guaranteed contracts, you become a potential casualty immediately.  Muamba didn't get cut in Mtl or SSK due to on field production, but because he was an easy SMS correction.  Chick, Durant and Dressler in SSK felt the same fate.  Players cut even though they were solid contributors, solely based on price.

If Muamba wants to settle in and be a fixture on a team, and actually finish a contract, maybe getting a team to overpay him isn't the answer.

OMG...you are correct....not at all what you've been saying for the past few weeks, but it seems you now understand that players can be cut even though they were productive for their team.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 12, 2018, 04:43:57 PM
Bombers can't afford to miss out on Muamba By: Doug Brown - https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/bombers-cant-afford-to-miss-out-on-muamba-476557463.html

Doug nailed it. Exactly right.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 12, 2018, 04:45:09 PM
How many of us would unexpectedly be out of work due to budget cutbacks, and then be ready and prepared to commit to another job in another city a couple weeks later? Not many, I would suspect. For cripes sakes, it would take most of us a couple weeks just to end our commitments in the place we were leaving.
And players get traded and uproot everything and everyone overnight. It works both ways....It is obvious, that HM is dragging this out to get the biggest contract he can.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 12, 2018, 04:47:44 PM
And players get traded and uproot everything and everyone overnight. It works both ways....It is obvious, that HM is dragging this out to get the biggest contract he can.

Players do go overnight in the course of a trade. That is not by their choice though. I am sure every single CFL player, to a man, would tell you they would have loved to get some heads up a few weeks before the trade. We did not trade for Henoc, he has every right to weigh his options.

I am sure at some point the Bombers or Als will ask Henoc to make his decision or they are moving on. Fortunately, for Henoc, there is absolutely no reason that needs to happen anytime soon.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bryan35 on March 12, 2018, 05:12:10 PM
Players do go overnight in the course of a trade. That is not by their choice though. I am sure every single CFL player, to a man, would tell you they would have loved to get some heads up a few weeks before the trade. We did not trade for Henoc, he has every right to weigh his options.

I am sure at some point the Bombers or Als will ask Henoc to make his decision or they are moving on. Fortunately, for Henoc, there is absolutely no reason that needs to happen anytime soon.

The contract offers could have an expirey date.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on March 12, 2018, 05:55:54 PM
What's the over/under on number of pages this thread reaches before Muamba makes his decision? 

55, I say over


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bomb squad on March 12, 2018, 06:14:58 PM
He signs when: 1) Somebody adds some juice to their offer; or, 2) Somebody makes noises about pulling away


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Jockitch on March 13, 2018, 12:19:14 AM
Bombers can't afford to miss out on Muamba By: Doug Brown - https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/bombers-cant-afford-to-miss-out-on-muamba-476557463.html
Makes all kinds of sense to me ........ plus our city offers great restaurants, upscale rental space at at a reasonable savings vs like choices in Montreal & our FANS are GREAT


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 13, 2018, 01:21:57 AM
HM has Jerry Macguire as his agent----show me the money!!!!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 13, 2018, 02:36:34 AM
Doug nailed it. Exactly right.

One of his best articles in a long while. He makes several very good points.

"Adding a playmaker who eliminates options for your opponent in the middle of the football field against both the pass and the run, and strengthens the other components of your defence, is as critical a chess piece as there is. No defence worth its salt is without a middle linebacker who's part field general and part kamikaze pilot, who sets the tone physically, and is capable of altering the outcome of games."

That quote hits the nail on the head.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 13, 2018, 02:55:01 AM
One of his best articles in a long while. He makes several very good points.

"Adding a playmaker who eliminates options for your opponent in the middle of the football field against both the pass and the run, and strengthens the other components of your defence, is as critical a chess piece as there is. No defence worth its salt is without a middle linebacker who's part field general and part kamikaze pilot, who sets the tone physically, and is capable of altering the outcome of games."

That quote hits the nail on the head.
yep....100%


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Tehedra on March 13, 2018, 03:52:01 AM
I agree with the quote about the MLB, but is he implying that Henoc is the only player capable of filling this role?  I honestly want to see what Santos Knox has to offer because I feel that he might be able to step up as well.  I wouldn't be disappointed to have Henoc on the team but i wouldn't break the bank especially since we already have some high paid ratio breakers on our team. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 13, 2018, 05:08:42 AM
Who was the last CFL all star non import Middle Linebacker before Muamba?   If there were any I couldn?t name them....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 13, 2018, 09:53:51 AM
Who was the last CFL all star non import Middle Linebacker before Muamba?   If there were any I couldn?t name them....

Shea Emery, 2012
Mike o?shea 1999

Jason Pottinger wasn?t an all star, but he was pretty good.  Kevin Eiben was an all star 3 Times, but he was mostly a WIL.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 13, 2018, 11:33:51 AM
I agree with the quote about the MLB, but is he implying that Henoc is the only player capable of filling this role?  I honestly want to see what Santos Knox has to offer because I feel that he might be able to step up as well.  I wouldn't be disappointed to have Henoc on the team but i wouldn't break the bank especially since we already have some high paid ratio breakers on our team. 

Like who?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 13, 2018, 02:35:22 PM
Shea Emery, 2012
Mike o?shea 1999

Jason Pottinger wasn?t an all star, but he was pretty good.  Kevin Eiben was an all star 3 Times, but he was mostly a WIL.


Thanks....MOS was for sure and he was the first Canadian defensive player to ever record over 1000 tackles.   I had forgotten about Emery thinking he was an import......so that?s only two players who were Canadian all star MLBers and that?s why HM is a hot ticket item.   There may be import MLBs out there who can do the job but Canadian MLBers are scarce as hens teeth.   If we get him we change the ratio and dynamics of this team.....without someone back there who can stop the run and cover the pass our defence will again be suspect....not something you can win a Grey Cup with.  Doug Browns article captures this and explains it very clearly.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 13, 2018, 03:04:56 PM
Thanks....MOS was for sure and he was the first Canadian defensive player to ever record over 1000 tackles.   I had forgotten about Emery thinking he was an import......so that?s only two players who were Canadian all star MLBers and that?s why HM is a hot ticket item.   There may be import MLBs out there who can do the job but Canadian MLBers are scarce as hens teeth.   If we get him we change the ratio and dynamics of this team.....without someone back there who can stop the run and cover the pass our defence will again be suspect....not something you can win a Grey Cup with.  Doug Browns article captures this and explains it very clearly.

At any given time, there are usually 2-3 high quality Canadian linebackers starting throughout the league.  At present, I would count Singleton, Muamba and probably Konar in that category.  There are also a number of "swingmen" who can start in the box or as a safety, like Ackie, Pruneau or Brouilette.   

But definitely, your point remains, Muamba is a valuable commodity. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 13, 2018, 03:07:53 PM
Like who?

Definitely Harris.  Loffler is a ratio-breaker, but I don't know how highly paid he is at this point, I don't recall if we have extended him yet or not.  I would say we are paying Demski like he is a ratio-breaker.   If memory serves he is getting $150k plus a $30k signing bonus, which is significant. 

None of which is to say we shouldn't sign Muamba, just that finding the money won't be a cinch. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 13, 2018, 03:17:35 PM
Definitely Harris.  Loffler is a ratio-breaker, but I don't know how highly paid he is at this point, I don't recall if we have extended him yet or not.  I would say we are paying Demski like he is a ratio-breaker.   If memory serves he is getting $150k plus a $30k signing bonus, which is significant. 

None of which is to say we shouldn't sign Muamba, just that finding the money won't be a cinch. 
One thing is certain....we have accumulated a lot more Canadian talent than we have in the past....which is one reason for our success of late.   Walters and MOS have been the architects of this team and hopefully they and all of Winnipeg?s fandom are rewarded with a Grey Cup....because that?s what it?s all about!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 13, 2018, 03:42:24 PM
Definitely Harris.  Loffler is a ratio-breaker, but I don't know how highly paid he is at this point, I don't recall if we have extended him yet or not.  I would say we are paying Demski like he is a ratio-breaker.   If memory serves he is getting $150k plus a $30k signing bonus, which is significant. 

None of which is to say we shouldn't sign Muamba, just that finding the money won't be a cinch. 

I'll give you Harris, but Loffler is not paid highly on his rookie deal and Demski is 150 all in, that includes his signing bonus. Not low pay but certainly not a ton for a NAT starter. Essentially we have Goosen, Loffler, and Matt Coates as NAT starters that are on extremely cap friendly contracts. When 50% of your NAT starters are making below average comparatively to their NAT colleagues at their position I think it's pretty tough to suggest we can't designate some extra to the other NAT starters. If starting NAT scrubs like Coates doesn't allow us to have more than one NAT ratio breaker then I would have to wonder if Walters is properly managing the SMS. NAT is where the good teams spend and then they sort out whatever SMS relief they might need in their IMPs and through good recruiting down South.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 13, 2018, 03:54:24 PM
when you look at it right now we have on National starter making premium coin...and 2 (Neufeld/Demski) sitting in the par for the course zone salary wise for good Canadian starter..Chugh...Goosen..Loffler..Coates are at ends of entry level/second year extended contracts so aren't a big cap hit as far as a National starter goes...so yeah we should have the money to pay for a Canadian ratio altering player...without sacrificing much talent elsewhere...beit American or Canadian


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 13, 2018, 04:04:18 PM
I'll give you Harris, but Loffler is not paid highly on his rookie deal and Demski is 150 all in, that includes his signing bonus. Not low pay but certainly not a ton for a NAT starter. Essentially we have Goosen, Loffler, and Matt Coates as NAT starters that are on extremely cap friendly contracts. When 50% of your NAT starters are making below average comparatively to their NAT colleagues at their position I think it's pretty tough to suggest we can't designate some extra to the other NAT starters. If starting NAT scrubs like Coates doesn't allow us to have more than one NAT ratio breaker then I would have to wonder if Walters is properly managing the SMS. NAT is where the good teams spend and then they sort out whatever SMS relief they might need in their IMPs and through good recruiting down South.

I'm not disagreeing with your general point, but would point out the following:

1.  The Dunk article on Demski's contract isn't 100% clear on whether the signing bonus is included in the $150k, but even assuming it is, that is still a little above average for a Cdn starter. 

2.  Goosen was already extended once, so he isn't cheap anymore.  He extended after year 2 of his first 3 year deal, so I wouldn't say he is making top dollar, but I wouldn't call it cap friendly at this point.

3.  Signing Muamba probably takes Coates out of the starting equation.  That would leave us where Neufeld, Chung and Goosen probably make "average" coin, Muamba, Harris and Demski make "above average" money, and Loffler would still be deal.

I still maintain that signing Muamba means someone has to go, but its probably an import.  And we better win it, because Harris, Chung, Demski, Goosen and Loffler all come up for new contracts at the end of the year.    :o


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 13, 2018, 04:58:35 PM
I'm not disagreeing with your general point, but would point out the following:

1.  The Dunk article on Demski's contract isn't 100% clear on whether the signing bonus is included in the $150k, but even assuming it is, that is still a little above average for a Cdn starter. 

2.  Goosen was already extended once, so he isn't cheap anymore.  He extended after year 2 of his first 3 year deal, so I wouldn't say he is making top dollar, but I wouldn't call it cap friendly at this point.

3.  Signing Muamba probably takes Coates out of the starting equation.  That would leave us where Neufeld, Chung and Goosen probably make "average" coin, Muamba, Harris and Demski make "above average" money, and Loffler would still be deal.

I still maintain that signing Muamba means someone has to go, but its probably an import.  And we better win it, because Harris, Chung, Demski, Goosen and Loffler all come up for new contracts at the end of the year.    :o

Other sources have it at 150k total. Jeff Hamilton I think? Just saying that Demski is making roughly what Hurl did last year and we haven't really added any NAT contracts other than Demski but we have subtracted a pretty substantial one in Westerman. I don't know if we have the SMS room for Muamba or not, but if we don't then Walters is mismanaging the SMS imo.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 13, 2018, 05:45:24 PM
Finding a MLB that might actually be better than Muamba for considerably less might be as viable an option, though.  There is a reason why we have 100% Int QB's, and MLB is *almost* as important a position as QB.  They are game changers, and hence, having a much larger pool to choose from makes sense.

Putting your ratio into a ratio busting spot opens you up to problems when that player goes down.  Unlike QB's, MLB's are beat up a lot more, and are more likely to need an in game replacement and more so, someone to start if/when they are injured.

It is great to find a talent that is a game changer with the proper passport.  But there is a reason why every team plays 3 Nat hoggies and a #5 WR as more than half their ratio.  Because those players are cheap and plentiful.  

I get trying to push for that cup by having a ratio breaker at MLB.  The question is, barring passport, is he the best MLB?  Would signing Reed or Woods has made the team better, cheaper?  Is JSK going to be as good as Muamba at a fraction of the cost?  Do we have players currently under contract that can cover our ratio?  If Muamba signs elsewhere, does Thomas become an option for ratio balancing?

Muamba is a quick, easy fix, but might be a dangerous play, and expensive.  So I'm good trusting these guys whichever they decide.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 13, 2018, 05:51:14 PM
Finding a MLB that might actually be better than Muamba for considerably less might be as viable an option, though.  There is a reason why we have 100% Int QB's, and MLB is *almost* as important a position as QB.  They are game changers, and hence, having a much larger pool to choose from makes sense.

Putting your ratio into a ratio busting spot opens you up to problems when that player goes down.  Unlike QB's, MLB's are beat up a lot more, and are more likely to need an in game replacement and more so, someone to start if/when they are injured.

It is great to find a talent that is a game changer with the proper passport.  But there is a reason why every team plays 3 Nat hoggies and a #5 WR as more than half their ratio.  Because those players are cheap and plentiful.  

I get trying to push for that cup by having a ratio breaker at MLB.  The question is, barring passport, is he the best MLB?  Would signing Reed or Woods has made the team better, cheaper?  Is JSK going to be as good as Muamba at a fraction of the cost?  Do we have players currently under contract that can cover our ratio?  If Muamba signs elsewhere, does Thomas become an option for ratio balancing?


Muamba is a quick, easy fix, but might be a dangerous play, and expensive.  So I'm good trusting these guys whichever they decide.

The problem with these questions is that they are questions.

Signing Muamba gives you a guaranteed, bonafide starting MLB. No risk above the usual risk you take with any player, and that includes injury. My thoughts are that even if JSK went down, Miles would get on the field as an backup so it wouldn't cause a catastrophe for in-game ratio.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 13, 2018, 06:01:31 PM

I get trying to push for that cup by having a ratio breaker at MLB.  The question is, barring passport, is he the best MLB?  Would signing Reed or Woods has made the team better, cheaper?  Is JSK going to be as good as Muamba at a fraction of the cost?  Do we have players currently under contract that can cover our ratio?  If Muamba signs elsewhere, does Thomas become an option for ratio balancing?

Muamba is a quick, easy fix, but might be a dangerous play, and expensive.  So I'm good trusting these guys whichever they decide.

Muamba is better than Reed.  Muamba is comparable to Bear Woods, but IMHO, more durable.  We don't know if Santos-Knox is effective at MLB, much less better than Muamba. 

If Muamba doesn't sign, I imagine we will sign a cheaper import LB to play behind Wild and JSK, and make up the ratio by starting Coates. 

I think you need to reconcile yourself to the fact that it is very unlikely Thomas will be re-signed.  He certainly won't be re-signed in lieu of Muamba, the club is invested in Ekakitie at this point. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 13, 2018, 06:07:22 PM
Finding a MLB that might actually be better than Muamba for considerably less might be as viable an option, though.  There is a reason why we have 100% Int QB's, and MLB is *almost* as important a position as QB.  They are game changers, and hence, having a much larger pool to choose from makes sense.

The reason why QBs are IMPs are because there are no NAT QBs that are even remotely close to as good as the IMPs, and secondly QBs don't count towards the ratio

Putting your ratio into a ratio busting spot opens you up to problems when that player goes down.  Unlike QB's, MLB's are beat up a lot more, and are more likely to need an in game replacement and more so, someone to start if/when they are injured.

Putting your ratio into ratio busting spots does not open you up to any more problems than anywhere else. You do not have to replace a NAT MLBer with a NAT MLBer. You just have to replace an IMP with a NAT. The exact same problem would come about if a NAT OL went down.

It is great to find a talent that is a game changer with the proper passport.  But there is a reason why every team plays 3 Nat hoggies and a #5 WR as more than half their ratio.  Because those players are cheap and plentiful.

There is nothing cheap about NAT OL, nor are good NAT receivers plentiful 

I get trying to push for that cup by having a ratio breaker at MLB.  The question is, barring passport, is he the best MLB?  Would signing Reed or Woods has made the team better, cheaper?  Is JSK going to be as good as Muamba at a fraction of the cost?  Do we have players currently under contract that can cover our ratio?  If Muamba signs elsewhere, does Thomas become an option for ratio balancing?

The question isn't whether he is the best MLB barring passport, the question is whether having him and the ability to get Flanders on the field is worth it. You're not just signing Henoc the MLBer (although he is one of the top MLBers in the CFL) you are also putting Flanders on the field or another IMP receiver in place of Coates. You don't get one player when you sign Henoc...you get two...and that's what you're failing to understand.

Muamba is a quick, easy fix, but might be a dangerous play, and expensive.  So I'm good trusting these guys whichever they decide.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 13, 2018, 06:14:18 PM
The problem with these questions is that they are questions.

Signing Muamba gives you a guaranteed, bonafide starting MLB. No risk above the usual risk you take with any player, and that includes injury. My thoughts are that even if JSK went down, Miles would get on the field as an backup so it wouldn't cause a catastrophe for in-game ratio.

But finding another MLB to replace JSK  long term without having to face a ratio concern is a lot easier and cheaper than replacing a Nat MLB.  Miles will be the in game replacement for either,  just like most positions on the field, your in game backup is a Nat, and usually a Nat getting paid near minimum.

JSK played well last year, and might have a bigger upside than Henoc.  We've seen his top, and its pretty good.  But its not better than most MLB's out there, and he's not even the best Nat MLB.  He's good, but not highest paid MLB good.  His biggest advantage right now is that he is available for no asset cost other than cash.  And that makes him more attractive in our current situation.  But I do not think that adding HM will be as big a benefit as the cost to do so will be.  Especially if it means dropping Okpaluago.  Or Dressler.  

Muamba is better than Reed.  Muamba is comparable to Bear Woods, but IMHO, more durable.  We don't know if Santos-Knox is effective at MLB, much less better than Muamba. 

If Muamba doesn't sign, I imagine we will sign a cheaper import LB to play behind Wild and JSK, and make up the ratio by starting Coates. 

I think you need to reconcile yourself to the fact that it is very unlikely Thomas will be re-signed.  He certainly won't be re-signed in lieu of Muamba, the club is invested in Ekakitie at this point. 

Thomas would not be in lieu of Muamba, and definitely not to start in front of Ekakitie.  But he gives added ratio depth in that you can rotate him, Ekakitie and Corney with confidence.  Which gives you 2 Nat spots on D, meaning a 3 nat Oline, 1 WR and 1 RB is sufficient on the O side.  Rotating Ekakitie and Corney alone could work, but the three are a better mix.

Jevaris Jones and Kyrie Wilson are already on the roster, there might be more coming to mini or main camp as well.  Regardless who we sign and who starts, we will have INT LB depth players on the roster.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 13, 2018, 06:16:17 PM
But finding another MLB to replace JSK  long term without having to face a ratio concern is a lot easier and cheaper than replacing a Nat MLB.  Miles will be the in game replacement for either,  just like most positions on the field, your in game backup is a Nat, and usually a Nat getting paid near minimum.

JSK played well last year, and might have a bigger upside than Henoc.  We've seen his top, and its pretty good.  But its not better than most MLB's out there, and he's not even the best Nat MLB.  He's good, but not highest paid MLB good.  His biggest advantage right now is that he is available for no asset cost other than cash.  And that makes him more attractive in our current situation.  But I do not think that adding HM will be as big a benefit as the cost to do so will be.  Especially if it means dropping Okpaluago.  Or Dressler.  

Thomas would not be in lieu of Muamba, and definitely not to start in front of Ekakitie.  But he gives added ratio depth in that you can rotate him, Ekakitie and Corney with confidence.  Which gives you 2 Nat spots on D, meaning a 3 nat Oline, 1 WR and 1 RB is sufficient on the O side.  Rotating Ekakitie and Corney alone could work, but the three are a better mix.

Jevaris Jones and Kyrie Wilson are already on the roster, there might be more coming to mini or main camp as well.  Regardless who we sign and who starts, we will have INT LB depth players on the roster.

Cash + other player(s) that may need to be released in order to accommodate his expected salary.  That player could be Okpalaugo, which is a significant cost. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 13, 2018, 07:06:26 PM
But finding another MLB to replace JSK  long term without having to face a ratio concern is a lot easier and cheaper than replacing a Nat MLB.  Miles will be the in game replacement for either,  just like most positions on the field, your in game backup is a Nat, and usually a Nat getting paid near minimum.

JSK played well last year, and might have a bigger upside than Henoc.  We've seen his top, and its pretty good.  But its not better than most MLB's out there, and he's not even the best Nat MLB.  He's good, but not highest paid MLB good.  His biggest advantage right now is that he is available for no asset cost other than cash.  And that makes him more attractive in our current situation.  But I do not think that adding HM will be as big a benefit as the cost to do so will be.  Especially if it means dropping Okpaluago.  Or Dressler.  


If Muamba were to go down we could just replace him with Coates, which is better than committing to starting Coates full time.

I think you're underselling Muamba here. I'm not even sure we've seen his ceiling: we've seen an incredible trajectory when he was a Bomber, followed by a period of absence, followed by a period of resurrection, surging to a peak near the end of his season. That means he may still improve. The only reason you can't say he's the best Nat MLB is because Singleton is essentially a generational player for a Canadian at that position. Muamba could be right up there.

For me, the known-quantity (with potential yet) + passport and all that entails (another import receiver/Flanders) is a greater value than a cheap American who might be good enough or as good, and will get on the field no matter what in a position he's proven himself at (JSK @ WIL)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 13, 2018, 07:13:21 PM
JSK played well last year, and might have a bigger upside than Henoc.  We've seen his top, and its pretty good.  But its not better than most MLB's out there, and he's not even the best Nat MLB.  He's good, but not highest paid MLB good.  His biggest advantage right now is that he is available for no asset cost other than cash.

Those are some pretty silly comments. For one, Santos-Knox played predominantly at WIL last season, so why even compare him to Muamba at this point? Second, Muamba is a proven commodity with ample experience, hence the potential earnings he could get. And third, he's easily top 2 as far as NAT LBs go. That's his biggest advantage: he's an excellent ratio breaking player at the top of his class.

If Muamba were to go down we could just replace him with Coates, which is better than committing to starting Coates full time.

I think you're underselling Muamba here. I'm not even sure we've seen his ceiling: we've seen an incredible trajectory when he was a Bomber, followed by a period of absence, followed by a period of resurrection, surging to a peak near the end of his season. That means he may still improve. The only reason you can't say he's the best Nat MLB is because Singleton is essentially a generational player for a Canadian at that position. Muamba could be right up there.

For me, the known-quantity (with potential yet) + passport and all that entails (another import receiver/Flanders) is a greater value than a cheap American who might be good enough or as good, and will get on the field no matter what in a position he's proven himself at (JSK @ WIL)

Well said.

And of course he is. That's been a part of his narrative in this thread all along.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on March 13, 2018, 07:23:00 PM
I think Neufled would be the odd man out for me. Go back to 3 Int. on the O line. HM goes down you could go back to 3 Nat. on the O line. I don't know if Neufled can play a full season.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 13, 2018, 07:33:08 PM
I think Neufled would be the odd man out for me. Go back to 3 Int. on the O line. HM goes down you could go back to 3 Nat. on the O line. I don't know if Neufled can play a full season.
That?s why Spooner and Couture are on the team.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on March 14, 2018, 12:15:55 AM
This is nauseating.
Simply ..you cut Durant....if there is a salary problem.
Now we are talking if Muamba. Gets hurt?!the guy isn't even in town

This lack of a signing is getting stupid.
Walters sign Bear Woods and let's move on.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: fansince79 on March 14, 2018, 12:48:20 AM
This is nauseating.
Simply ..you cut Durant....if there is a salary problem.
Now we are talking if Muamba. Gets hurt?!the guy isn't even in town

This lack of a signing is getting stupid.
Walters sign Bear Woods and let's move on.



Woods re-signed with the Argos last month.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BlueInCgy on March 14, 2018, 12:48:47 AM
This is nauseating.
Simply ..you cut Durant....if there is a salary problem.
Now we are talking if Muamba. Gets hurt?!the guy isn't even in town

This lack of a signing is getting stupid.
Walters sign Bear Woods and let's move on.


Woods is back with the Argos.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 14, 2018, 01:13:35 AM
Walters sign Bear Woods and let's move on.

He re-signed in Toronto nearly a month ago: https://www.cfl.ca/2018/02/20/argos-ink-bear-woods-2018/ (https://www.cfl.ca/2018/02/20/argos-ink-bear-woods-2018/)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 14, 2018, 01:44:41 AM
If Muamba were to go down we could just replace him with Coates, which is better than committing to starting Coates full time.

I think you're underselling Muamba here. I'm not even sure we've seen his ceiling: we've seen an incredible trajectory when he was a Bomber, followed by a period of absence, followed by a period of resurrection, surging to a peak near the end of his season. That means he may still improve. The only reason you can't say he's the best Nat MLB is because Singleton is essentially a generational player for a Canadian at that position. Muamba could be right up there.

For me, the known-quantity (with potential yet) + passport and all that entails (another import receiver/Flanders) is a greater value than a cheap American who might be good enough or as good, and will get on the field no matter what in a position he's proven himself at (JSK @ WIL)
this makes total sense, so why isn't it happening??


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bunker on March 14, 2018, 02:06:00 AM
this makes total sense, so why isn't it happening??
I think because Walters is prepared to pay Bombers version of Westerman money (190,000), and Muamba wants Alouette's version of Westerman money (218,000 plus performance bonuses). At some point, overpaying too much starts to hurt your roster. Where that point is is a judgement call.   


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 14, 2018, 11:01:29 AM
I think because Walters is prepared to pay Bombers version of Westerman money (190,000), and Muamba wants Alouette's version of Westerman money (218,000 plus performance bonuses). At some point, overpaying too much starts to hurt your roster. Where that point is is a judgement call.   

For sure. There is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that the Bombers really want Muamba. Now it's a numbers game of how to make it happen.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 14, 2018, 03:18:14 PM
This is nauseating.
Simply ..you cut Durant....if there is a salary problem.
Now we are talking if Muamba. Gets hurt?!the guy isn't even in town

This lack of a signing is getting stupid.
Walters sign Bear Woods and let's move on.


Cut Durant? That's one of the worst options I've read in this string topic.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bryan35 on March 14, 2018, 03:21:41 PM
Cut Durant? That's one of the worst options I've read in this string topic.

Cut Nichols!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Darwinismyhomeboy on March 14, 2018, 03:43:38 PM
Cut Durant? That's one of the worst options I've read in this string topic.

And it's from someone that today suggests we sign Bear Woods.  Hmmm


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 14, 2018, 03:52:24 PM
We could unlock a ton of money for HM if we just cut our Oline players. Nichols could do a schoolyard snap by taking it off the line himself and bounce back into a pocket stance.

We would then maximize value for Muamba because he would have to be on the field 55 minutes a game.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: M.O.A.B. on March 14, 2018, 05:14:24 PM
come to think of it, Bombers dont really need to cut anyone.

how many games will Neufeld, Dressler and Wild will play thus season?
if they get injured just pou them on the 6game IR right away and save $.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 14, 2018, 05:21:52 PM
come to think of it, Bombers dont really need to cut anyone.

how many games will Neufeld, Dressler and Wild will play thus season?
if they get injured just pou them on the 6game IR right away and save $.


Yeah, that's not a risky premise or anything.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GOLDMEMBER on March 14, 2018, 05:56:21 PM
Ugh man
Still nothing?!?!?

This is stupid silly.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: SSC on March 14, 2018, 05:57:45 PM
Yeah, that's not a risky premise or anything.

The defensive scheme of the Bombers is a risky premise. This pales in comparison.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 14, 2018, 06:03:00 PM
Ugh man
Still nothing?!?!?

This is stupid silly.
Maybe Muamba went on vacation for a few weeks  ???


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 14, 2018, 06:05:33 PM
The defensive scheme of the Bombers is a risky premise. This pales in comparison.

What a useless comment.

Expecting players to get hurt so the team can avoid going over the cap to address MLB is asinine.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 14, 2018, 06:54:44 PM
From bob Irving:

All remains quiet on the Muamba front. Blue Bombers have made an attractive offer but they have cap challenges and if Henoc simply goes where the most money is, Bombers may lose out despite their best efforts.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Mike on March 14, 2018, 06:59:10 PM
Muamba is a real bozo ... hasn't learned anything from his time in this league. Keep trying to milk every last dime you can out of teams, keep getting cut early.

if he signs here, great. if he doesn't, oh well. either way, not a fan of the way he carries himself as a professional.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bustamente on March 14, 2018, 07:09:59 PM
Looks like Bob all but confirms the narrative that the Bombers have given Muamba a take it or leave it contract offer, this is what we can offer no more.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 14, 2018, 07:27:53 PM
Looks like Bob all but confirms the narrative that the Bombers have given Muamba a take it or leave it contract offer, this is what we can offer no more.

I don't see how it can be any different. We couldn't plan our SMS around signing him, and while no one else could either, we are a stacked team ready to compete for a cup and with contracts to match while it's the opposite in Montreal. We have a maximum we can offer that ought to be attractive to him, and that's kinda it. All we can do is put our best nut forward and hope he does the logical thing.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bryan35 on March 14, 2018, 07:50:54 PM
Looks like Bob all but confirms the narrative that the Bombers have given Muamba a take it or leave it contract offer, this is what we can offer no more.

Hope there is an expiry date to accept on the offer.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: swansong on March 14, 2018, 08:22:38 PM
Having never played pro football everything I'm about to say is pure opinion and speculation

Football is a team sport. Teams filled with guys who put their bodies on the line week after week, year after year. I can't imagine most of these guys do it solely for the money. I imagine they want to be the best they can be, maybe rack up some records and to win some accolades and championships.

Lots goes into accomplishing those feats, including team chemistry, management, infrastructure, etc, etc.

If, notice I said IF, we're looking at a guy whose only/main concern is the money then is that someone we really want on our team? I understand these guys have to look out for their best interests and more power to them but from a TEAM pov I would prefer a guy who wants to be a part of my team, who wants to win, as part of a team.

Perhaps I'm being naive but team sports require a team spirit not just a "show me the money" attitude.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 14, 2018, 09:04:13 PM
you sort of hit a nail on the head there...from personal experience the merc's..or the guys obviously only in it from a dollars percpective a lot of times alienate themselves...or become alienated from the core of teams...players can begin to resent that type of attitude/player and a lot of times won't give them the time of day.

Also have seen first hand these are the guys who don't go that extra mile to win...to run through a wall fr their boys and risk their selves..so to speak for the success of the team...this too can be noticed by players and cause locker room divide...not sure if Muamba is this kind of guy...but would like to be certain he will lay it on the line when chips are down, and not self preserve


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 14, 2018, 09:12:48 PM
Having never played pro football everything I'm about to say is pure opinion and speculation

Football is a team sport. Teams filled with guys who put their bodies on the line week after week, year after year. I can't imagine most of these guys do it solely for the money. I imagine they want to be the best they can be, maybe rack up some records and to win some accolades and championships.

Lots goes into accomplishing those feats, including team chemistry, management, infrastructure, etc, etc.

If, notice I said IF, we're looking at a guy whose only/main concern is the money then is that someone we really want on our team? I understand these guys have to look out for their best interests and more power to them but from a TEAM pov I would prefer a guy who wants to be a part of my team, who wants to win, as part of a team.

Perhaps I'm being naive but team sports require a team spirit not just a "show me the money" attitude.

There is absolutely NOTHING to indicate that Muamba lacks team spirit or commitment.  His last 2 teams quit on him, not the other way around.  If they couldn?t afford his contract, they shouldn?t have offered it.

I trust Walters to put the best possible offer forward, and then hope he honours that contract.  If it isn?t enough, then fine, I can live with it.  But if it is, and he signs, Muamba will be all in for the Bombers.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on March 14, 2018, 09:18:35 PM
Looks like Bob all but confirms the narrative that the Bombers have given Muamba a take it or leave it contract offer, this is what we can offer no more.
I was a Real Estate agent and I can tell you that lots of times the final offer isn't final, that the 'That's all we have to spend' isn't all they have to spend and 'Take or or leave it' deals get sweetened to make them happen. Same things holds true for most negotiations.

I read the tweet as the Bombers wanting Muamba to think that their last offer is as far as they can go and they are willing to lose out on him for however much the two sides are apart right now. They want the fans know that they really tried and gave him an 'Attractive' (Attractive to who?) offer.

I'd love to get Muamba knowing it's going to cost $200K+ to get the deal done. I'd pay it even if it means losing Oko. You can't keep everyone and a NI who plays like an import is the best place to spend IMO.

Muamba is a NI difference maker. He wants to be paid like it and he likely wants as much as possible up front. You can call that mercenary. I call it knowing your own worth. I don't care if the deal gets done quickly, as long as it's done before draft day. We need to know if we're paying out a big bucks salary for a NI before we decide if we want to trade for another 1st rounder or trade our 1st down for more later, less expensive, picks or make any other draft day deals that affect the SMS in a big-ish way.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 14, 2018, 09:20:08 PM
Bob Irving also said this: They may have to release some high paid vet just to get under the cap, never mind trying to fit Henoc in


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 14, 2018, 09:25:59 PM
And from Bauming: Henoc Muamba or not, the #Bombers may need to cut ties with DE Tristan Okpalaugo and his big-ticket salary ($170k range) heading into 2018. Take away his three-sack Week 20 game, and his other three 2017 sacks = well below expected value. Jeffcoat and Roh beyond capable starters.

I also look at #Bombers rookies Sam Montgomery and Chris Casher ? a pair of D-ends with a pile of CFL potential. Montgomery is a former Houston Texans? 3rd-round pick, and Casher has a National Championship ring from Florida State.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 14, 2018, 09:29:23 PM
According to a source, the @EdmontonEsks have released Canadian LB Cory Greenwood. #CFL #Esks


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 14, 2018, 10:20:16 PM
And from Bauming: Henoc Muamba or not, the #Bombers may need to cut ties with DE Tristan Okpalaugo and his big-ticket salary ($170k range) heading into 2018. Take away his three-sack Week 20 game, and his other three 2017 sacks = well below expected value. Jeffcoat and Roh beyond capable starters.

I also look at #Bombers rookies Sam Montgomery and Chris Casher ? a pair of D-ends with a pile of CFL potential. Montgomery is a former Houston Texans? 3rd-round pick, and Casher has a National Championship ring from Florida State.
This will likely happen if we re tight for $$$, explains why we signed Roh and his passport--we knew Westerman was leaving.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 14, 2018, 10:26:47 PM
According to a source, the @EdmontonEsks have released Canadian LB Cory Greenwood. #CFL #Esks

Not surprising.  Talented guy, but a total bandaid since coming to the CFL.  At 31/32, I certainly hope we wouldn?t consider him.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 15, 2018, 05:13:30 AM
This will likely happen if we re tight for $$$, explains why we signed Roh and his passport--we knew Westerman was leaving.

Roh is an Int...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TecnoGenius on March 15, 2018, 08:50:58 AM
And from Bauming: Henoc Muamba or not, the #Bombers may need to cut ties with DE Tristan Okpalaugo and his big-ticket salary ($170k range) heading into 2018. Take away his three-sack Week 20 game, and his other three 2017 sacks = well below expected value.

Okpa is better than his '17 stats: I don't think they do him justice.  Even though he didn't get the sacks he was causing pressure and waving those long arms of his in front of plenty of QBs/passes.  He's miles above Roh.  That said, our DL is quite good, perhaps we could live without him.  However, I'd be sad to see him go.  He seems like a great team/locker room guy (from '17 pressers) and he genuinely seems to want to be here.

If it's a choice between Okpa @$170 and HM@$220+, I think I'd take Okpa.

Not many people mention it anymore, but I'm sour about HM coming back from NFL and not doing what it takes to rejoin WBB (i.e. less money for the 1st year back).  Does anyone here think Bighill wouldn't re-sign with BC if/when he comes back?  SMS space or not, they'd make it happen.  Bighill understands honor and duty, he's like the opposite of HM.  That's the implicit deal with letting these guys chase NFL dreams.  That's what miffs me most about HM.  No loyalty.

If HM had come from the NFL back to WPG, played a year, then left for the highest bidder, I think a lot of us would feel a lot better about him.

If we get him (under $200), great, I'll accept him here.  But he won't be my favorite.  He'll be like another Nick Moore... prima donna you know will be gone in 1-2 years.  (Speaking of Moore, looks like he's going the way of Denmark in FA.  See if he'll take $75k!)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on March 15, 2018, 09:55:43 AM
Nick Moore? The guy is always injured.
Why do people always **** on Denmark?  He's a good competant receiver.
What an ignorant forum.

It's like the current Jets.  No one can score.  Why well because the opponents put their best defenders on the number one line. And with injuries, the best guys are covered.  Without the #1 guys, (Adams) Denmark gets covered by the defenses best DB, as do the Jets trip of Ehlers, Laine and Stastny.  The other guys are not good enough to "raise their game and take on a greater role" so production drops.

Once a competant package of competant scoring threats is back on the roster, the second line talents get their chances.  Denmark is in that group.

Is Bowman better than Denmark?  Sure five years ago.m how about now? Edmonton sure didn't think a broken down guy was.

I hope he is too.  But jet ising Denmark, and Thomas, are big mistakes. Those guys didn't screw up.  They are consistent capeable performers.  Bombers need guys like that.

Bombers are hoping Bowman returns to past form.  And if he does,  we get a steal,of a deal. Don't be surprised if we get a beaten up limping has been.

Actually, while some people feel the Bombers have been great in free agency, Walters has seemed to,collected the geriatric ward of the CFL, and this forum seems to think he has done a good job.  In reflection, has he signed any current up and coming stars in free agency this year?

Not sure about the overall success of 2018'fre agency.  Rather we lost a number of our best players! ( Bond, Westerman,,Heath) and this is progress ?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 15, 2018, 10:53:49 AM
There is absolutely NOTHING to indicate that Muamba lacks team spirit or commitment.  His last 2 teams quit on him, not the other way around.  If they couldn?t afford his contract, they shouldn?t have offered it.

I trust Walters to put the best possible offer forward, and then hope he honours that contract.  If it isn?t enough, then fine, I can live with it.  But if it is, and he signs, Muamba will be all in for the Bombers.

I agree. It's pretty obvious that we are not the highest offer out there given our SMS capacity, and Henoc is still in play. He's doing what most players would do when faced with a decision between money or location. He's taking his time so that the decision he makes is one he can live with afterwards.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: kkc60 on March 15, 2018, 11:45:00 AM
Nick Moore? The guy is always injured.
Why do people always **** on Denmark?  He's a good competant receiver.
What an ignorant forum.

It's like the current Jets.  No one can score.  Why well because the opponents put their best defenders on the number one line. And with injuries, the best guys are covered.  Without the #1 guys, (Adams) Denmark gets covered by the defenses best DB, as do the Jets trip of Ehlers, Laine and Stastny.  The other guys are not good enough to "raise their game and take on a greater role" so production drops.

Once a competant package of competant scoring threats is back on the roster, the second line talents get their chances.  Denmark is in that group.

Is Bowman better than Denmark?  Sure five years ago.m how about now? Edmonton sure didn't think a broken down guy was.

I hope he is too.  But jet ising Denmark, and Thomas, are big mistakes. Those guys didn't screw up.  They are consistent capeable performers.  Bombers need guys like that.

Bombers are hoping Bowman returns to past form.  And if he does,  we get a steal,of a deal. Don't be surprised if we get a beaten up limping has been.

Actually, while some people feel the Bombers have been great in free agency, Walters has seemed to,collected the geriatric ward of the CFL, and this forum seems to think he has done a good job.  In reflection, has he signed any current up and coming stars in free agency this year?

Not sure about the overall success of 2018'fre agency.  Rather we lost a number of our best players! ( Bond, Westerman,,Heath) and this is progress ?
I love how you're ranting about Bowman, Denmark and the guys we didn't retain on a thread about signing a MLB. It makes your already misinformed rambling seem even more misinformed


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: NorthernSkunk on March 15, 2018, 02:10:23 PM
I love how you're ranting about Bowman, Denmark and the guys we didn't retain on a thread about signing a MLB. It makes your already misinformed rambling seem even more misinformed

This thread has gone sideways a few times.......nothing wrong with DM's post I totally get what he is saying...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 15, 2018, 08:04:01 PM
With the new speculation that Walters may have to cut Okpaluago just to getr under the SMS with the current roster, that makes speculation on a competitive offer for Muamba even more difficult.

Its time to max out the credit line, even lose a pick.  Rejig some deals with more upfront money.  Roll the dice with the 6 game issues on some durable players. 



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: buckzumhoff on March 15, 2018, 08:10:28 PM
They cut enough players loose, Bond Heath, Why more .. Id keep Okpalaugo. I doubt they are over budget yet even if they sign Muamba


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 15, 2018, 08:33:27 PM
They cut enough players loose, Bond Heath, Why more .. Id keep Okpalaugo. I doubt they are over budget yet even if they sign Muamba

Bond and Heath were money savers last year, they were on ELC's.  Their replacements will actually cost the team considerably more...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 15, 2018, 08:34:35 PM
They cut enough players loose, Bond Heath, Why more .. Id keep Okpalaugo. I doubt they are over budget yet even if they sign Muamba
That's true.  All these rumors could just be a smokescreen. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 15, 2018, 08:39:33 PM
I hve my doubts too that they are close to or at the cap at the momnent


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 15, 2018, 08:41:03 PM
I hve my doubts too that they are close to or at the cap at the momnent
Walters is probably also negotiating with Okpalaugo's agent, trying to get him to take a haircut if he wants to stick around. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Mike on March 15, 2018, 08:58:57 PM
They cut enough players loose, Bond Heath, Why more .. Id keep Okpalaugo. I doubt they are over budget yet even if they sign Muamba

Bond and Heath were on entry level deals, they?ll be replaced by new players on entry level deals.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 15, 2018, 09:07:24 PM
Bond and Heath were on entry level deals, they?ll be replaced by new players on entry level deals.

Neufeld is replacing Bond, no?  And Fenner in for Heath?  Sure, there will be players coming in on ELC's, but not starters...

We've signed some substantial contracts this year, Bowman, Durant, Fenner, Demski, Roh.. and re-signed players to bigger deals in Foketi, Randle, Leggett, Fogg...  we cut salary in Hurl and Westerman.  Pretty sure that we are closer to the cap this year than last. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TecnoGenius on March 16, 2018, 05:04:28 AM
Nick Moore? The guy is always injured.

So you wouldn't take him for $75k?  I didn't say I liked him, in fact I was ripping on him as the example of a "bad Bomber".  But I'd still take him for $75k.

Why do people always **** on Denmark?  He's a good competant receiver.
What an ignorant forum.

When was I ripping on Denny?  All I said is he (and Nick) are like the last guys left in FA unsigned.  Well, last guys of note (plus Muamba).  I count 44 unsigned out of 220 total.  It's like picking teams in junior high, and those guys are going to be the last.  It's not a rip, it's reality.
https://www.cfl.ca/fa18/ (https://www.cfl.ca/fa18/)

I'm personally a big Denny fan, I'm always sticking up for him.  He's Bomber-for-life material and deserves special consideration.  That said, he disappeared after Adams went down, and covered by the best DB or not, it's his job to make plays happen.  (Zylstra didn't care he was covered by the best DBs.)  Since he's an expensive vet, he's a SMS casualty.  Perhaps if no one wants him he'll decide to play for us for rookie salary, though I'm thinking he'll just go home.  Heck, if we get injury-city around here in '18 we can always call up Denny on his couch.  Worked before.

As for Bowman, the hope is he can get open even when covered by #1 DB.  I think most would argue he has a better chance of making that happen than Denny.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 16, 2018, 12:38:24 PM
From Bauming: Henoc Muamba update; very unlikely at this point he will sign with the #Bombers. The club made a strong pitch to the Canadian linebacker, but a significant gap exists between the ask ($190-200k) and the offer. Winnipeg cap restraints, among other factors.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 16, 2018, 12:41:15 PM
From Bauming: Henoc Muamba update; very unlikely at this point he will sign with the #Bombers. The club made a strong pitch to the Canadian linebacker, but a significant gap exists between the ask ($190-200k) and the offer. Winnipeg cap restraints, among other factors.

Well, that's pretty disappointing. :(

Another reason to dislike the Als and Reed.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 16, 2018, 12:42:35 PM
Interesting that the ask is only 190 to 200k..tho perhaps Henoc is looking at what he was supposed to make as his benchmark and since Sask gifted him some of it already he is just seeking the balance.

Also if rumors are correct and there is a big gap then wonder what Walters offered...and he is either just not wanting to over pay and possibly taking the show us you still have it approach and pay a decent amount...and reward him with more next year when we can adjust our SMS better...or we are truly that tight up against cap (which I highly doubt in March) or we don't want to lose an established quality player (Opo..Nevis..Whomever) just to sign a high priced Canadain who "technically" we don't need

That being said also interesting that if the offers are there...the amounts wanted are known..why he hasn't just took the money and signed in whats most likely Montreal...hopefully he is weighing the pros and cons of signing in that circus for more money against signing here for a bit less...but actually having a chance at Cup...and possible more money in the end with playoff cash...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 16, 2018, 12:44:17 PM
From Bauming: Henoc Muamba update; very unlikely at this point he will sign with the #Bombers. The club made a strong pitch to the Canadian linebacker, but a significant gap exists between the ask ($190-200k) and the offer. Winnipeg cap restraints, among other factors.

The ask seems like a fairly reasonable offer for a quality starting Canadian. Particularly in a position we aren't sure we have a solution and for the flexibility in the ratio it would provide.

What's the interpretation of a significant gap between the offer and the ask? $30K? $20K

Is this all posturing since Muamba hasn't signed in Montreal either?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 16, 2018, 12:46:02 PM
The ask seems like a fairly reasonable offer for a quality starting Canadian. Particularly in a position we aren't sure we have a solution and for the flexibility in the ratio it would provide.

What's the interpretation of a significant gap between the offer and the ask? $30K? $20K

Is this all posturing since Muamba hasn't signed in Montreal either?
Ya, I though the same, that $190k was a reasonable ask.  I wonder what Walters is offering?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 16, 2018, 12:46:22 PM
I
Good point  ;)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 16, 2018, 12:50:03 PM
Ya, I though the same, that $190k was a reasonable ask.  I wonder what Walters is offering?

Earlier I felt the possible sticking point is teams wanting a 2 year contract while many players only want a 1 year deal.

Posters keep saying this is purely a money issue. If that's the case why hasn't he signed anywhere yet? It's not like teams are upping their offers every couple of days.

It's never as simple as it seems.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 16, 2018, 12:50:06 PM
friggin computer...sent my message on me....tho I is a pretty good reply...could go any way hahaha


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 16, 2018, 12:51:29 PM
It's somewhat alarming to learn that Muamba's ask is out of Walter's price range. $190-200K isn't unreasonable but it seems pretty obvious the team is tighter to the cap than I'd expected.

I'm also not comfortable going into the 2018 season with the current LB corps.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 16, 2018, 12:55:28 PM
It's somewhat alarming to learn that Muamba's ask is out of Walter's price range. $190-200K isn't unreasonable but it seems pretty obvious the team is tighter to the cap than I'd expected.

I'm also not comfortable going into the 2018 season with the current LB corps.
Or maybe Walters knows that Muamba REALLY doesn't want to sign with the Als.  I hope Walters is really pushing the extra playoff money he would make with the Bombers, that he won't get with Montreal.  That would close the gap. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 16, 2018, 01:01:02 PM
Or maybe Walters knows that Muamba REALLY doesn't want to sign with the Als.  I hope Walters is really pushing the extra playoff money he would make with the Bombers, that he won't get with Montreal.  That would close the gap. 

If that's the case then I'm not impressed with the who blinks first approach. If $20K-$40K creates an SMS issue this early then we may have bigger issues.

It's the downside of building a team as much through high priced free agency acquisitions.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: KINGCHARLES on March 16, 2018, 01:12:04 PM
190-200k seems like the going rate for star Canadian veterans.

I wonder though you have to compare by specific position. What is Alex Singleton making? Singleton is going into his 3rd year in the CFL and gotta be guaranteed he isn't making 190-200k. Id really like to know what Singleton is getting paid as a lot of players will sign 2 year deals initially and get a bigger payday in year 3.
What I'm getting at here is unless Singleton is making 190-200k, Muamba (the 2nd best Canadian MLB in the CFL) shouldn't be making any more. If Singleton is still on a rookie contract it would probably mean he's making south of 100k and  then one would assume he could potentially be headed to the NFL after this season. If Singleton is still on a rookie deal then maybe Muamba is worth 190-200k


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 16, 2018, 01:31:24 PM
190-200k seems like the going rate for star Canadian veterans.

I wonder though you have to compare by specific position. What is Alex Singleton making? Singleton is going into his 3rd year in the CFL and gotta be guaranteed he isn't making 190-200k. Id really like to know what Singleton is getting paid as a lot of players will sign 2 year deals initially and get a bigger payday in year 3.
What I'm getting at here is unless Singleton is making 190-200k, Muamba (the 2nd best Canadian MLB in the CFL) shouldn't be making any more. If Singleton is still on a rookie contract it would probably mean he's making south of 100k and  then one would assume he could potentially be headed to the NFL after this season. If Singleton is still on a rookie deal then maybe Muamba is worth 190-200k


I don't think you necessarily have to compare to a specific position. Some positions are more expensive whether Canadian or Import. LT for example is probably the most expensive OL position. Strongside CB and HB are more expensive than weak side.

Of course you may find a rookie gem on an ELC that you get for a low cost contract but once that's done expect to pay a lot more.

As far as Singleton he's on a his first contact which was a 3 year deal. The Stamps gave up a high draft pick in the supplementary draft. As such he's basically a 1st rounder and got more than minimum salary. Very good chance that Singleton becomes the highest or 2nd highest paid LB in the CFL in 2019 if he doesn't get NFL offers.

Like all things something ( or a player in this case ) could be worth more to one team than an other. All the power to Westerman but was he really " worth " the salary he got on a team in re-build mode in Montreal?

I'm not suggesting that the SMS can be ignored but I would suggest Muamba is more important to the Bombers than the Als.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 16, 2018, 01:40:39 PM
Is it possible Bauming is just speculating that Muamba's ask is 190-200k?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 16, 2018, 01:59:51 PM
Or maybe Walters knows that Muamba REALLY doesn't want to sign with the Als.  I hope Walters is really pushing the extra playoff money he would make with the Bombers, that he won't get with Montreal.  That would close the gap. 

Hard to say. Taking less money here with the likelihood of playoff money to set off the difference would seem like a no-brainer in that case. I have no idea.

If that's the case then I'm not impressed with the who blinks first approach. If $20K-$40K creates an SMS issue this early then we may have bigger issues.

It's the downside of building a team as much through high priced free agency acquisitions.

That's exactly my concern.

This is just really unfortunate. It's pretty much the one final piece of the puzzle and for whatever reason(s), it just isn't happening. :-[


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: rubanski on March 16, 2018, 02:17:06 PM
WPG spends $3,000 flying him in, accommodations, wining and dining him.... he won't sign here on a $10,000 gap... whatever.


Seems like more posturing/negotiating here. Walters has likely dug in at his perception of the value and ball's now in Henoc's court to decide if he wants a shot at the grey cup & a high chance of playoff money vs. guaranteed $10k and extremely unlikely chance of playoff money.


$3,400 is all but guaranteed here, and $7,000 seems highly likely.


First Place Standing (Bye) $3,400
Semi-Final Participation $3,400
Division Championship Participation $3,600
Grey Cup Runner-up $8,000
Grey Cup Winner $16,000




Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 16, 2018, 02:29:16 PM
I don't see what the problem is, Muamba wants what we offered to Westerman, so offer it to Muamba and solve our linebacking problem while you're at it. It's so straight forward its sickening. If we have cap problems, then you cut somebody else other than your NAT MLB!!!

I am not impressed at all the drama associated with this signing, and the reason, I don't care. Ya, you have to weigh out your options and try and get the best offer, and ya, Walters is trying to get the best deal and fit under the cap, but if its pennies we're quibbling about, we got bigger problems than that. The BB faithful are dying for a run at the GC, $40,000 isn't going to matter if that's what's stopping us from getting there.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 16, 2018, 02:30:09 PM
WPG spends $3,000 flying him in, accommodations, wining and dining him.... he won't sign here on a $10,000 gap... whatever.


Seems like more posturing/negotiating here. Walters has likely dug in at his perception of the value and ball's now in Henoc's court to decide if he wants a shot at the grey cup & a high chance of playoff money vs. guaranteed $10k and extremely unlikely chance of playoff money.


$3,400 is all but guaranteed here, and $7,000 seems highly likely.


First Place Standing (Bye) $3,400
Semi-Final Participation $3,400
Division Championship Participation $3,600
Grey Cup Runner-up $8,000
Grey Cup Winner $16,000

I agree.  These media leaks are likely Walters playing hardball negotiating through the media.  The fact that Muamba didn't immediately take the higher offer says he wants to play in Winnipeg. In my opinion, and it's pure speculation, I still think there's a good chance Muamba signs with the Bombers.  


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Jesse on March 16, 2018, 02:34:22 PM
I agree.  These media leaks are likely Walters playing hardball negotiating through the media.  The fact that Muamba didn't immediately take the higher offer says he wants to play in Winnipeg. In my opinion, and it's pure speculation, I still think there's a good chance Muamba signs with the Bombers.  

This was my take as well.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue72 on March 16, 2018, 02:48:44 PM
It seems that we could find DE at lot better then we could find LB's so why not trade Tristan Okpalaugo and his large salary to someone for a higher draft pick and maybe a starter (LB). This way we could then sign Maumba or just move on with someone else plus also get a better draft pick and free up some money.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 16, 2018, 02:50:08 PM
It seems that we could find DE at lot better then we could find LB's so why not trade Tristan Okpalaugo and his large salary to someone for a higher draft pick and maybe a starter (LB). This way we could then sign Maumba or just move on with someone else plus also get a better draft pick and free up some money.
Okpalaugo's salary is probably impossible to trade. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 16, 2018, 03:25:20 PM
From Bauming: Henoc Muamba update; very unlikely at this point he will sign with the #Bombers. The club made a strong pitch to the Canadian linebacker, but a significant gap exists between the ask ($190-200k) and the offer. Winnipeg cap restraints, among other factors.

this doesn't surprise me.  back in my thread "why i don't think Muamba will sign", i went through the cap math the best I could, and I didn't see a way to get to his market value (which I agree is $190k - $200k).  To be honest, I'm impressed that Walters has been able to get close enough to be in the conversation.  And, there is still a faint hope that it might string together yet. 

There is no doubt we are up against the cap.  That's not shocking or alarming, it's just a reality of the budget, and Walters has to have a bottom line position.  It would be nice if the deal were to come together, but he has to maintain the integrity of his payroll.  He has certainly given it a good effort though. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 16, 2018, 03:29:09 PM
It seems that we could find DE at lot better then we could find LB's so why not trade Tristan Okpalaugo and his large salary to someone for a higher draft pick and maybe a starter (LB). This way we could then sign Maumba or just move on with someone else plus also get a better draft pick and free up some money.

Be careful what you wish for, after losing Westerman I wouldn't take the chance of deleting Oko from the equation, leaving Jeffcoat as the only DE left with the potential to contribute double digit sack numbers.  Roh and Corney may be adequate replacements but they are more likely to contribute 4-5 sacks each and weaken the balance of the line by allowing the opponent to focus double teaming solely on Jeffcoat.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 16, 2018, 03:32:14 PM
Or just flat out cut him. We have DE's in spades, he is a luxury not a necessity.

I agree there's ALOT of posturing going on and I appreciate Walters trying to get the best deal for the franchise. It s tough to watch when this is the last missing piece to the puzzle that makes us legit GC contenders, I wouldn't be quibbling over 10,000 or whatever the figure is, sign the dude, get on with life and prepare for a GC run. any cap problems you may have are solvable, not getting to the Grey Cup with a sub par MLB is going to get everyone around here in an ugly mood, quick.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 16, 2018, 03:42:58 PM
You have to wonder what Greenwood is doing to this equation.  Sure, coming off an ACL, but he did put up good numbers in Toronto the year before. 

Is Edm in the Muamba mix now with Greenwood out?  Does MTL pick up Greenwood at a substantial discount from Muamba and make us the front runners?  Do we express interest in Greenwood?  Not sure he's better than Miles... but has starting experience, and fits the cap.

Or maybe he's doing nothing at all, if Edm cut him, he might be done...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 16, 2018, 03:46:59 PM
You have to wonder what Greenwood is doing to this equation.  Sure, coming off an ACL, but he did put up good numbers in Toronto the year before. 

Is Edm in the Muamba mix now with Greenwood out?  Does MTL pick up Greenwood at a substantial discount from Muamba and make us the front runners?  Do we express interest in Greenwood?  Not sure he's better than Miles... but has starting experience, and fits the cap.

Or maybe he's doing nothing at all, if Edm cut him, he might be done...
Greenwood is talented, but is always injured.  I noticed Moe Leggett commented on Twitter about Greenwood being released...he was intrigued.  If the price was right, and he's 100% healthy, I'd consider inviting him to training camp for a look.   


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 16, 2018, 03:48:34 PM
Be careful what you wish for, after losing Westerman I wouldn't take the chance of deleting Oko from the equation, leaving Jeffcoat as the only DE left with the potential to contribute double digit sack numbers.  Roh and Corney may be adequate replacements but they are more likely to contribute 4-5 sacks each and weaken the balance of the line by allowing the opponent to focus double teaming solely on Jeffcoat.

I dunno.  I mean I agree with your point about not wanting to cut Okpaulugo loose, but I think you might be underselling Roh.

Roh and Jeffcoat had the same sack numbers last year, 7.  I think Roh has every chance to be as productive as Jeffcoat.

And while Okpaulugo has put up 10 sack seasons in the past, he only put up 6 in 12 games last year.  Which isn't bad, but 3 of those came in one game, when Calgary was resting guys.  He needs to get back to form if he sticks around at that salary.  


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 16, 2018, 03:52:20 PM
Greenwood is talented, but is always injured.  I noticed Moe Leggett commented on Twitter about Greenwood being released...he was intrigued.  If the price was right, and he's 100% healthy, I'd consider inviting him to training camp for a look.   

In the last 3 seasons, Greenwood has played 22 our of a possible 54 games.  His "best" year for durability was a 12 game season.  He's also 31 years old, turning 32.

Hard pass.  It doesn't matter how good he looks in camp, he isn't going to last. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 16, 2018, 04:29:35 PM
From Herb: I?ve been led to believe, after visiting both Montreal and Winnipeg, MLB @HenocMuamba still would prefer to sign with #AlsMTL. But will it happen?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on March 16, 2018, 04:33:18 PM
Quote
Bob Irving -@BobIrvingCJOB  Mar 14

All remains quiet on the Muamba front. Blue Bombers have made an attractive offer but they have cap challenges and if Henoc simply goes where the most money is, Bombers may lose out despite their best efforts.

Quote
Darrin Bauming - @DarrinBauming  5h5 hours ago

Henoc Muamba update; very unlikely at this point he will sign with the #Bombers. The club made a strong pitch to the Canadian linebacker, but a significant gap exists between the ask ($190-200k) and the offer. Winnipeg cap restraints, among other factors.

I wonder what the Bombers consider an 'Attractive' offer if there is still a 'significant gap' between their offer and Muamba's 190-200K ask?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on March 16, 2018, 05:57:31 PM
If we are not at $200K I can't see him signing here. What is Singleton making with the Stamps??


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 16, 2018, 06:01:07 PM
If we are not at $200K I can't see him signing here. What is Singleton making with the Stamps??
Pretty sure he's still on his entry level contract so probably around $100k. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 16, 2018, 07:57:08 PM
From Herb: I?ve been led to believe, after visiting both Montreal and Winnipeg, MLB @HenocMuamba still would prefer to sign with #AlsMTL. But will it happen?

If he hasn't signed with Montreal this sort of suggests the Bombers offer is higher. None of this makes any sense. 1st we hear our offer is low compared to the ask then we hear he'd prefer Montreal.

What does that say about their offer then if he hasn't jumped at it? lol

Rumours abound every day. He's coming here. He's not coming here.

Que sera sera.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 16, 2018, 08:17:08 PM
If he hasn't signed with Montreal this sort of suggests the Bombers offer is higher. None of this makes any sense. 1st we hear our offer is low compared to the ask then we hear he'd prefer Montreal.

What does that say about their offer then if he hasn't jumped at it? lol

Rumours abound every day. He's coming here. He's not coming here.

Que sera sera.
Seems clear to me.  He likes Montreal because of the money.  He likes Winnipeg because of the winning team and good environment etc. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 16, 2018, 08:29:02 PM
Seems clear to me.  He likes Montreal because of the money.  He likes Winnipeg because of the winning team and good environment etc. 
Guess he cant have everything!  He obviously knows Winnipeg after 3 seasons.....and he did play in Montreal long enough to get a sample size of what it had to offer....I think he should just flip a coin if he can?t make up his mind...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 16, 2018, 08:32:27 PM
Seems clear to me.  He likes Montreal because of the money.  He likes Winnipeg because of the winning team and good environment etc. 

Not clear at all. So many posters believe it's all about the money with Muamba. Your comment suggests it's not.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 16, 2018, 09:50:45 PM
If the ask is $190k, you'd have to wonder if $150k + 30k in performance bonuses ($1k per start, $7k for 100+ tackles, $5k All Star / All Canadian), and the opportunity for playoff money might be enough...

Would he be wanting a one year deal because of the new CBA, or could Walters build that into a 2 year deal, with increases based on the new CBA?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 17, 2018, 12:27:32 AM
If the ask is $190k, you'd have to wonder if $150k + 30k in performance bonuses ($1k per start, $7k for 100+ tackles, $5k All Star / All Canadian), and the opportunity for playoff money might be enough...

Would he be wanting a one year deal because of the new CBA, or could Walters build that into a 2 year deal, with increases based on the new CBA?

Best sign him for two or we'll have to go through this again next year.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 17, 2018, 05:26:45 AM
Best sign him for two or we'll have to go through this again next year.
I would be very surprised if he signs a two year deal in either of Winnipeg or Montreal....a one year deal works in HMs favour....because after this season is over and his one year contract expires he will once again be in the drivers seat when it comes to renegotiating....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on March 17, 2018, 02:07:28 PM
I seriously doubt he is coming to Winnipeg.  Hope this crap ends soon as I really don't care about this guy. Go sign with Montreal.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on March 17, 2018, 02:15:18 PM
If you don't care you can always read another thread.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 17, 2018, 03:16:41 PM
I seriously doubt he is coming to Winnipeg.  Hope this crap ends soon as I really don't care about this guy. Go sign with Montreal.

You should care. We need a MLB and don't know if we really have an adequate alternate. He'd also be a great asset in our ratio choices.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 17, 2018, 05:03:19 PM
I seriously doubt he is coming to Winnipeg.  Hope this crap ends soon as I really don't care about this guy. Go sign with Montreal.

What's the need for such petulant comments? :-\

You should care. We need a MLB and don't know if we really have an adequate alternate. He'd also be a great asset in our ratio choices.

This. He's an immediate and needed upgrade on defense. He also carries the right passport.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 17, 2018, 05:05:29 PM
You should care. We need a MLB and don't know if we really have an adequate alternate. He'd also be a great asset in our ratio choices.
Exactly, if this wasn't the case, nobody would care, but he is an impact NAT in a position we desparately need to upgrade, and if we don't sign him, I don't see an equivalent in terms of talent level coming in here.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on March 17, 2018, 05:24:26 PM
You should care. We need a MLB and don't know if we really have an adequate alternate. He'd also be a great asset in our ratio choices.

You guys really overrate this guy.  Yes he has a passport, but for what he asks for and ability on field NO WAY is he worth 200K.  This guy has not been the same player after coming back from the NFL, he has lost his playmaking abilities and speed it seems. Why was he released from Montreal and Sask?  Don't tell me the cap, because if he was that good they would have made it work and gotten rid of someone else on the squad.   Woods or Reeds would have been a good option except passport.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Sir Blue and Gold on March 17, 2018, 05:58:12 PM
Mercenary Muamba doing what he always does. Can't blame him for it. That's just the way he rolls. He'd be a great piece but not at any price. The guy has been released twice because he's overvalued himself. The story of his career is that he's not as good as his agent. He could been on someone's ring of honour if he had just gone about things differently. He probably doesn't care.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: DM83 on March 17, 2018, 06:28:43 PM
Well 1290"said Walters said he did not think he was,coming here. So let's move on.

Now that that s over, go get a real MLB.

Muamba when he was here seemed to be a talented hard working quiet guy. Now after his NFL shot he seems somewhat arrogant and pompous, or rather his agent  and the resultant fall out.

Honestly, if we have any scouts we can go get a young American who might be a little undersized and can run.
We have no import / ratio issues as we signed Roh amd Demski. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Mike on March 17, 2018, 06:55:46 PM
Well 1290"said Walters said he did not think he was,coming here. So let's move on.

Now that that s over, go get a real MLB.

Muamba when he was here seemed to be a talented hard working quiet guy. Now after his NFL shot he seems somewhat arrogant and pompous, or rather his agent  and the resultant fall out.

Honestly, if we have any scouts we can go get a young American who might be a little undersized and can run.
We have no import / ratio issues as we signed Roh amd Demski. 

Roh is murican.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 17, 2018, 07:38:35 PM
You guys really overrate this guy.  Yes he has a passport, but for what he asks for and ability on field NO WAY is he worth 200K.  This guy has not been the same player after coming back from the NFL, he has lost his playmaking abilities and speed it seems. Why was he released from Montreal and Sask?  Don't tell me the cap, because if he was that good they would have made it work and gotten rid of someone else on the squad.   Woods or Reeds would have been a good option except passport.

Sorry buddy, but you couldn?t be more wrong.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bustamente on March 17, 2018, 08:09:40 PM
Muamba's people need to know that you need two to dance and it looks like Walters have decided to sit this one out, so let's look at other options whether they are in the CFL, contracted by the Bombers or brought in for training camp. Our Canadian ratio will be just fine


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Tehedra on March 17, 2018, 08:43:09 PM
People keep saying we don't have an MLB but that does do a severe disservice to the rookies they brought in last year that might be ready to step up this year.  I truly believe that Santos Knox really stood out last year in a positive way and feel that he could possibly be an MLB for our team.  I am betting we have others on the team as well who might step up.  Do we have an all star canadian MLB? No, but we don't "NEED" a Canadian MLB.  We have Canadians in other spots and to be honest I feel an American MLB could be just as talented and come at a far lower cost as well as be easier to back-up.  In such an important position I almost think I would prefer an American player who can be backed up easier, than a Canadian player which would require ratio adjustments if they are injured.  At least at some of the other positions it is much easier to hide those poor back-ups when they come onto the field but MLB is not one of those spots where you want to be hiding a weakness.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on March 17, 2018, 09:46:25 PM
Sorry buddy, but you couldn?t be more wrong.

You will see what he does with Montreal then come back here I tell me I was right.  Thank god we did sign this guy, Kyle Walters good for you.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 17, 2018, 09:53:07 PM
People keep saying we don't have an MLB but that does do a severe disservice to the rookies they brought in last year that might be ready to step up this year.  I truly believe that Santos Knox really stood out last year in a positive way and feel that he could possibly be an MLB for our team.  I am betting we have others on the team as well who might step up.  Do we have an all star canadian MLB? No, but we don't "NEED" a Canadian MLB.  We have Canadians in other spots and to be honest I feel an American MLB could be just as talented and come at a far lower cost as well as be easier to back-up.  In such an important position I almost think I would prefer an American player who can be backed up easier, than a Canadian player which would require ratio adjustments if they are injured.  At least at some of the other positions it is much easier to hide those poor back-ups when they come onto the field but MLB is not one of those spots where you want to be hiding a weakness.

Disservice my derriere. The possible MLB candidates from 2017 are unproven at MLB and they are not Canadian.

Any Canadian starter is difficult to replace during an injury. Do we have a great replacement for Loffler if he gets hurt? What we have is another unproven veteran or rookie.

Every single Canadian starter is tough to replace.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 17, 2018, 09:55:21 PM
Disservice my derriere. The possible MLB candidates from 2017 are unproven at MLB and they are not Canadian.

Any Canadian starter is difficult to replace during an injury. Do we have a great replacement for Loffler if he gets hurt? What we have is another unproven veteran or rookie.

Every single Canadian starter is tough to replace.
Derek Jones. Coaching staff is very high on him and are comfortable starting him at safety.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 17, 2018, 11:00:50 PM
Derek Jones. Coaching staff is very high on him and are comfortable starting him at safety.

Same coaches that were high on Hurl. Jones has been around long enough and never shown he's really good enough to be a starter. He's an ST guy.

Same coaches that are confidant in our current group of LB's.  Same coaches that were confidant in Normand replacing Harris.

Yeah right. What do you expect them to say?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 18, 2018, 12:05:19 AM
Same coaches that were high on Hurl. Jones has been around long enough and never shown he's really good enough to be a starter. He's an ST guy.

Same coaches that are confidant in our current group of LB's.  Same coaches that were confidant in Normand replacing Harris.

Yeah right. What do you expect them to say?
Same coaches that like Jeffcoat and Leggett too. What?s your point? 

Hurl played because he was a cheap Canadian starter.  Normand is gone because Lapo doesn?t use a FB enough to justify the salary. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 18, 2018, 01:12:22 AM
Muamba's people need to know that you need two to dance and it looks like Walters have decided to sit this one out, so let's look at other options whether they are in the CFL, contracted by the Bombers or brought in for training camp. Our Canadian ratio will be just fine

Disagree, they give up a lot of ratio flexibility having only one Natl. starting on the D side of the ball and Derek Jones is not the answer.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 18, 2018, 01:17:02 AM
Disagree, they give up a lot of ratio flexibility having only one Natl. starting on the D side of the ball and Derek Jones is not the answer.
Derek Jones is perfectly fine as a backup safety. No one is expecting him to start.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 18, 2018, 02:22:46 AM
Same coaches that like Jeffcoat and Leggett too. What?s your point? 

Hurl played because he was a cheap Canadian starter.  Normand is gone because Lapo doesn?t use a FB enough to justify the salary. 

So in 4 seasons they've found 1 quality DB and 1 quality DE as CFL rookies.

When building you're starting roster is based on CHEAP, failure is built in. Again, they have failed to find a quality starting MLB in 4 seasons.

What's your point?

Mine is that they blow smoke up the wazoo being political about players they say are capable of starting when they aren't.

If you've actually watched Jones play he gets beat like a rented mule. More like we'd see an import move to safety and one of the Canadian DL replace an import there.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 18, 2018, 02:24:42 AM
Derek Jones is perfectly fine as a backup safety. No one is expecting him to start.

You are if that's the plan to replace Loffler if he  is injured which you are suggesting. That's the same as saying in 2016 that Hurl was perfectly fine as the backup MLB. He wasn't and he certainly wasn't good enough to start.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Tehedra on March 18, 2018, 03:46:07 AM
You are if that's the plan to replace Loffler if he  is injured which you are suggesting. That's the same as saying in 2016 that Hurl was perfectly fine as the backup MLB. He wasn't and he certainly wasn't good enough to start.

Blue I'm not sure if I follow your argument, I mean... you are jumping all around and basically making it sound like you feel every starter has to be a vet but that just isn't how things work. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 123James321 on March 18, 2018, 02:58:02 PM
Santos-Knox and Ian Wild will make fantastic starting Linebackers for us. The problem will be if the injuries pile up. JSK is really the only good linebacker they have found in 4 years. So I dont have a lot of faith in the the guys under them. Even though they look like good recruits, how many times have we thought new players were going to be good, came up here and sucked. I know my track record isnt very good.

I do think the ratio will be fine though. With Loffler and rotating one other on defence (Corney, Ekakitie, Miles, Briggs, Jones) we could still potentially get away with only starting one Canuck receiver and have Flanders, Dressler, Bowman, and Adams all on the field with Harris and Demski as the canadians with 3 on the OL


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue96 on March 18, 2018, 03:53:16 PM
You guys really overrate this guy.  Yes he has a passport, but for what he asks for and ability on field NO WAY is he worth 200K.  This guy has not been the same player after coming back from the NFL, he has lost his playmaking abilities and speed it seems. Why was he released from Montreal and Sask?  Don't tell me the cap, because if he was that good they would have made it work and gotten rid of someone else on the squad.   Woods or Reeds would have been a good option except passport.

Name someone more qualified, who has a passport that fits, and can upgrade our defence. Or do you prefer just bad mouthing a stud MLB just because he's asking for a lot of money? Where are you basing your opinions off of? I'd really like to know.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 18, 2018, 04:01:41 PM
Blue I'm not sure if I follow your argument, I mean... you are jumping all around and basically making it sound like you feel every starter has to be a vet but that just isn't how things work. 

Not at all. He's going into his 5th season and has a combined DT of 18 in 72 games played. Going into his 3rd season he got passed on the depth chart by a rookie in Loffler.

I'd guess that Conteh or Branning might pass him on the depth chart as the back up safety this season. Jones is still a decent ST player but IMO he will not / should not be next man up.

As I suggested, I'd more likely expect an import shuffling over to safety and a Canadian going in on he DL in game. For a longer term injury at safety I can't imagine it would be Jones.

I'd rather see a rookie with upside like Branning get the call than a player that hasn't made the grade after 4 full seasons.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 18, 2018, 04:38:32 PM
It will be interesting to know at the end of the day exactly what $$ figure it took to sign Muamba regardless of which team he finally decides to play for.   This dragging out of the negotiation process is getting more than tiresome and when you read a headline on TSN ?Muamba unlikely to sign with the Bombers? you have to wonder what the hell IS actually going on.  You want the guy to succeed and all and of course we DO need him but I have to admit that all the drama....well it?s just a bit over the top!   


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 19, 2018, 11:41:17 AM
I don't really care whether we sign Muamba or another NAT defensive starter. It's just that Muamba fills the role of two very big weaknesses we have right now. IF he is a no-go...move on...but make no mistake, if we don't sign another NAT defensive starter we will lose games because of it. Our ratio flex is a dog's breakfast right now.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 19, 2018, 01:43:00 PM
I don't really care whether we sign Muamba or another NAT defensive starter. It's just that Muamba fills the role of two very big weaknesses we have right now. IF he is a no-go...move on...but make no mistake, if we don't sign another NAT defensive starter we will lose games because of it. Our ratio flex is a dog's breakfast right now.

I am not scared of the idea of starting both Demski and Coates on offence.  When you take the Bowman > Denmark upgrade into account, i think our offence is still improved over last year. 

I am also okay with going JSK or Wild at MLB if that turns out to be the best option.  I think our upgrades in the secondary will improve the overall defence, even with the Roh<Westerman switch.

But I do agree that starting only one NAT starter on defence does not give us enough flexibility.  Ekakitie and Corney might be a solution, but its not optimal. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 19, 2018, 01:43:34 PM
I don't really care whether we sign Muamba or another NAT defensive starter. It's just that Muamba fills the role of two very big weaknesses we have right now. IF he is a no-go...move on...but make no mistake, if we don't sign another NAT defensive starter we will lose games because of it. Our ratio flex is a dog's breakfast right now.
If there was ever a failing of Walters and MOS it?s been in this position and LBs in general.   Our D has not been consistent defending the run for quite some time which puts more pressure on our DBs.   You?d think they would have just pulled out all the stops and just made him an offer he couldn?t refuse....very disappointing and without a bonafide stopper back there we will likely see more of the same kind of defence....and I?m afraid it just won?t cut it come playoff time.   As the clock ticks on it seems more unlikely day after day that he won?t sign here and it?s too bad.   I do however still believe in miracles and we will need one now if we ever hope to actually win a GC.....after 27 years!  Is there a curse or something?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 19, 2018, 01:49:53 PM
I don't really care whether we sign Muamba or another NAT defensive starter. It's just that Muamba fills the role of two very big weaknesses we have right now. IF he is a no-go...move on...but make no mistake, if we don't sign another NAT defensive starter we will lose games because of it. Our ratio flex is a dog's breakfast right now.

I can't think of any quality Canadians that are left in free agency that are going to help. A trade might be possible but expensive + who can we give up to make that acquisition?

It's not a pretty picture with the ratio flex as you mentioned. My hope is that Ekakitie really takes the next step forward to becoming a starter during the course of the season.

Corney is developing but our import DE's are very good and that's not where I'd prefer to see a ratio change made this season.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 19, 2018, 02:05:24 PM
I can't think of any quality Canadians that are left in free agency that are going to help. A trade might be possible but expensive + who can we give up to make that acquisition?

It's not a pretty picture with the ratio flex as you mentioned. My hope is that Ekakitie really takes the next step forward to becoming a starter during the course of the season.

Corney is developing but our import DE's are very good and that's not where I'd prefer to see a ratio change made this season.


Agreed....the more I read Doug Browns piece on acquiring him the more I?m inclined to agree with his take on the whole affair!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 19, 2018, 02:51:28 PM
I can't think of any quality Canadians that are left in free agency that are going to help. A trade might be possible but expensive + who can we give up to make that acquisition?

It's not a pretty picture with the ratio flex as you mentioned. My hope is that Ekakitie really takes the next step forward to becoming a starter during the course of the season.

Corney is developing but our import DE's are very good and that's not where I'd prefer to see a ratio change made this season.


We have great Int DL's, but with our rotation system, I don't think it will be hard to have 2 Nat's on the field on D.  Corney can spell on certain plays (or even run 3 DE's in certain sets like we did last year), Ekakitie on others, and we can sub in a DB when needed.  Designing each package to have 2 Nats on it should not be difficult, we do have a lot of good Nat D that can rotate in.  Not guys you'd want to start, but that can spell, and getting them reps also keeps tehm ready should they be pressed into duty due to injury.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blueraid on March 19, 2018, 03:54:21 PM
Rumours floating around Montreal says Henoc is not going to sign with anyone right away but wait till a club suffers an injury and needs a replacement...Makes some sense and would probably be the lever he needs for more cash ::)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Jesse on March 19, 2018, 04:09:50 PM
Rumours floating around Montreal says Henoc is not going to sign with anyone right away but wait till a club suffers an injury and needs a replacement...Makes some sense and would probably be the lever he needs for more cash ::)

I feel like I said this would happen early on in the process, but can't remember if I made a post about it.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bunker on March 19, 2018, 04:10:09 PM
Rumours floating around Montreal says Henoc is not going to sign with anyone right away but wait till a club suffers an injury and needs a replacement...Makes some sense and would probably be the lever he needs for more cash ::)
This does not make sense to me. What if no MLBs are injured? Or if they get injured game 16 into the season? And even if a MLB is injured, there is no guarantee the team will have the SMS room to pay Henoc what he wants. For example if JSK is injured, that will only open up 50-60,000 of salary, (and only if he's 6 gamed), not the 200,000+ Henoc seems to want.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 19, 2018, 04:12:00 PM
This does not make sense to me. What if no MLBs are injured? Or if they get injured game 16 into the season? And even if a MLB is injured, there is no guarantee the team will have the SMS room to pay Henoc what he wants. For example if JSK is injured, that will only open up 50-60,000 of salary, (and only if he's 6 gamed), not the 200,000+ Henoc seems to want.
Exactly...or what if teams are comfortable with their backup MLB and have no need for Henoc?  Or what if even with an injured MLB, teams still can't afford Henoc?  These new rumors, sound more like a negotiating tactic by Henoc's agent. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Jesse on March 19, 2018, 04:16:18 PM
This does not make sense to me. What if no MLBs are injured? Or if they get injured game 16 into the season? And even if a MLB is injured, there is no guarantee the team will have the SMS room to pay Henoc what he wants. For example if JSK is injured, that will only open up 50-60,000 of salary, (and only if he's 6 gamed), not the 200,000+ Henoc seems to want.

Maybe he prefers getting 100k for playing 6 games and a play off run.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bunker on March 19, 2018, 04:21:51 PM
Maybe he prefers getting 100k for playing 6 games and a play off run.
He may want to win the lottery also, but they're both large gambles that depend on the right player getting injured at the right time, on the the right team with SMS room. I think like gbill2004 said, this is more likely a negotiating tactic. Walters has drawn a line in the sand on what he is prepared to pay. Kavis probably knows this, and has offered more, but not to the level Henoc wants, and they are now engaged in a game of chicken. Speculation admittedly, but to me this makes more sense than Henoc gambling on the scenario above. Either that, or he's not really sure he wants to play football anymore, and will just walk away if he does not get the money he wants..


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 19, 2018, 04:29:08 PM
Rumours floating around Montreal says Henoc is not going to sign with anyone right away but wait till a club suffers an injury and needs a replacement...Makes some sense and would probably be the lever he needs for more cash ::)

Who is circulating this rumor? It makes no sense.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 19, 2018, 04:43:49 PM
It's just an unsubstantiated rumour, and it makes no sense. I think the bombers have made him a fair offer, and are prepared to go with JSK at MLB, and if HM doesn't want to sign here, we ll move on.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 3rdand1.5 on March 19, 2018, 04:47:19 PM
*********Pure theory;

Agent...we want 300,000

8 CFL teams.... throw in serous offers, low balls or nothng.....

Agent ok, we have three decent offers lets play them against each other and see what we can squeeze...

BC...Take $XXXXXX
Wpg...Take $XXXXXX probably better than BC
Mtrl....We will beat your other offers....

Agent...ok BC WPG time to up.... MTRL s paying....ETC.
skip ahead three weeks....

Agent; well Henoc still not where we think you should be paid.....we have 3 teams very interested in you but they are stalling on the dollar amount we want, lets try a few more tactics while I exhaust every possible NFL connection I have...
skip ahead again....

Agent; OK no one is paying, but injuries do happen lets hope one happens in the CFL or NFL and Then we can negotiate against a teams weakness, and hey if we show we are willing to wait....maybe a GM will cave...be patient young man you are worth more than they are paying right now...





Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 19, 2018, 04:51:03 PM
Henoc's agent doesn't like the offers form both Montreal and Winnipeg, so he's trying to create a third mystery team ,with the threat of sitting out until there's an injury.  If they're serious, that strategy could backfire. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 19, 2018, 04:57:10 PM
Henoc's agent doesn't like the offers form both Montreal and Winnipeg, so he's trying to create a third mystery team ,with the threat of sitting out until there's an injury.  If they're serious, that strategy could backfire. 
Agreed....that?s actually stupid....sign with someone already ***!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 19, 2018, 05:05:07 PM
Who is circulating this rumor? It makes no sense.

Especially since only a few teams are relying on a Natl. MLB. and one of those could be the Riders.  Not likely a team changes their existing ratio mid-season and acquires an expensive Natl. MLB when they could plug in an import at half the cost.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 19, 2018, 05:05:46 PM
I hope that rumour is true...and he sits all year...Not sure what is in that dude's head but obviously not much...and obviously he has this image of himself as being just the greatest thing going...almost laughable...and if this is true...lost a lot if not all respect for the guy...what a putz


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 19, 2018, 05:34:05 PM
I hope that rumour is true...and he sits all year...Not sure what is in that dude's head but obviously not much...and obviously he has this image of himself as being just the greatest thing going...almost laughable...and if this is true...lost a lot if not all respect for the guy...what a putz

I agree....but I don't think there is even a glimmer of truth to this.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 19, 2018, 05:53:48 PM
Gotta love the drama.  Doesn't he get it?  This is the deal, its only going to get less as teams get to define their MLB / ratio spots better though min-camps and into TC.  Right now, there are unknowns.  Come June, those will be solved, one way or another.  The likelihood that a team had all of its recruits, Int and Nats, fail is pretty low. 

He obviously isn't getting the Westerman level love from Reed, and Walters is probably his agents least favourite GM because he will not be pushed around as evidenced by the last two contract Henoc has signed. 

If he does end up sitting out the start of the season, good luck finding a gig.  Bringing in a guy who does not know your scheme and is not running at game speed in mid season isn't going to carry a high price tag. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 19, 2018, 06:06:22 PM
I agree....but I don't think there is even a glimmer of truth to this.

I think his agent is willing to let the tension build a little longer.  He might try shopping him back to the NFL after the draft, if he doesn't feel the CFL offers are enough. 

The thing is, there is still no rush.  Whatever cap room the Bombers or the Als have, it will still be there 2 months from now. 

But waiting for an injury, that doesn't make sense to me.  That may increase leverage, but it doesn't increase cap room, and it comes at an opportunity cost of $10,000 per game.   

Que sera, sera....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 19, 2018, 06:30:54 PM
I think his agent is willing to let the tension build a little longer.  He might try shopping him back to the NFL after the draft, if he doesn't feel the CFL offers are enough. 

The thing is, there is still no rush.  Whatever cap room the Bombers or the Als have, it will still be there 2 months from now. 

But waiting for an injury, that doesn't make sense to me.  That may increase leverage, but it doesn't increase cap room, and it comes at an opportunity cost of $10,000 per game.   

Que sera, sera....

I think you may be right about letting the tension build....but I think the rumor floated earlier is nonsense created by impatient fans struggling to come up with any reason possible why this is taking so long. I would rate the likelihood of it being true as being slim to none and slim just left town.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 19, 2018, 06:32:32 PM
Gotta love the drama.  Doesn't he get it?  This is the deal, its only going to get less as teams get to define their MLB / ratio spots better though min-camps and into TC.  Right now, there are unknowns.  Come June, those will be solved, one way or another.  The likelihood that a team had all of its recruits, Int and Nats, fail is pretty low. 

He obviously isn't getting the Westerman level love from Reed, and Walters is probably his agents least favourite GM because he will not be pushed around as evidenced by the last two contract Henoc has signed. 

If he does end up sitting out the start of the season, good luck finding a gig.  Bringing in a guy who does not know your scheme and is not running at game speed in mid season isn't going to carry a high price tag. 

I would like to see ANY reputable source for the rumor before declaring this rumor even semi-valid because it just doesn't seem plausible or sensible in any way, shape, or form.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 19, 2018, 06:52:55 PM
there is no NFL interest or he'd have signed there last year, he's a year older and removed from the NFL, so chances are slim and none there, and slim just left town.

The waiting for an injury rumour is pure bunk. If HM wants to make money, he has to get on the field. Relying on someone else to get hurt and coming in mid season to learn a teams defensive scheme,  isn't a great Plan A as you may end up on the sideline for the rest of the season. I think the Als and Bombers have made their best offers, and are now waiting to see who blinks first the Als, BB or HM, and as time goes on, the Als will have to figure out what their LB plans are and HM stock will go down as the demand for his services won't be there, as teams will have moved on.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 19, 2018, 07:05:08 PM
The only shred of truth to the "waiting for injury" rumour would be Wild.  If Wild is going to be our MLB, then maybe he thinks Wild will be going down early in TC...

Who knows, maybe his agent knows something we don't, maybe some player slipped in the shower, and that isn't being released by the player or the club until they have to report to TC...

Kind of a stretch, amybe hopeful thinking, but I can't see any way that his value increases substantially as time moves forward, and once camp starts and either one of WPG or MTL is satisfied with the players they have at MLB / ratio, then his value drops even further.  Even just having players working in TC and HM not will most likely cause his value to drop. 

I'd say sign a one year deal in Wpg, but I can't see Walters doing that.  I wouldn't be surprised if the sticking point in WPG is that he wants a 1 year deal, and we want 3...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 19, 2018, 07:06:23 PM
I would like to see ANY reputable source for the rumor before declaring this rumor even semi-valid because it just doesn't seem plausible or sensible in any way, shape, or form.

agreed...this doesn't even really match the persona of being a money hungry/motivated dude....he won't make more money and any incentive based bonuses are out the window...it is just fans speculating on why this is taking longer than they think it should.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 19, 2018, 09:28:41 PM
The only shred of truth to the "waiting for injury" rumour would be Wild.  If Wild is going to be our MLB, then maybe he thinks Wild will be going down early in TC...

Who knows, maybe his agent knows something we don't, maybe some player slipped in the shower, and that isn't being released by the player or the club until they have to report to TC...

Kind of a stretch, amybe hopeful thinking, but I can't see any way that his value increases substantially as time moves forward, and once camp starts and either one of WPG or MTL is satisfied with the players they have at MLB / ratio, then his value drops even further.  Even just having players working in TC and HM not will most likely cause his value to drop. 

I'd say sign a one year deal in Wpg, but I can't see Walters doing that.  I wouldn't be surprised if the sticking point in WPG is that he wants a 1 year deal, and we want 3...
This is some top notch speculation here. Well done Aards  ;)


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: thunderNlightning on March 19, 2018, 09:57:41 PM
This is getting so dramatic by the week, it?s not like this guy is a high profile CFL superstar! He is an above average MLB. There are better in this league but him and his agent are treating this like he?s the biggest thing going today!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 20, 2018, 01:54:21 AM
I agree the longer this plays out, HM stock will drop. Teams will move on, if they haven't done so already. Offers are on the table, its up to HM to accept one, if not, he runs the risk of being signed for less.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 20, 2018, 05:04:17 AM
This is getting so dramatic by the week, it?s not like this guy is a high profile CFL superstar! He is an above average MLB. There are better in this league but him and his agent are treating this like he?s the biggest thing going today!
unfortunately, he is the biggest thing going at the moment and in his position there is only one better than him....so ya...he being a National player that could help the ratio on D as well as actually stopping the run is kinda of a big deal.   I just am not a fan of his negotiating style but it is what it is.....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 20, 2018, 01:32:02 PM
I would be absolutely shocked if Henoc does not sign anywhere prior to the draft.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: rubanski on March 20, 2018, 01:34:16 PM
uhhhhgggggg, see what years of Sam Hurl has done to us.... we're happy to put up with this crap in hopes of anything else there.

Helps me to think that pretty well no matter who we play there we are going to be getting better production than ol slammin Sammy was giving us.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 20, 2018, 02:31:08 PM
An interesting exchange....


Bob Irving @BobIrvingCJOB
Mar 14
All remains quiet on the Muamba front. Blue Bombers have made an attractive offer but they have cap challenges and if Henoc simply goes where the most money is, Bombers may lose out despite their best efforts.


CHK @Whitetail76
Mar 14
You would think that has to be getting old for @HenocMuamba to continue the cycle of being released because of his salary and the desire to build something and win would kick in.



Wade Razella @Wrazella
Replying to @Whitetail76 @BobIrvingCJOB @HenocMuamba
Henoc has proven himself over an over again that it is only about the money. When the Bombers did him a favour and released him so he and play in the NFL I remember that he said he would be back in Winnipeg in a heartbeat. Funny how that $$$$$$$ works.


Henoc Muamba
‏Verified account @HenocMuamba
Henoc Muamba Retweeted Wade Razella
U seem to have all the facts about everything wade. Nonetheless I admire your accomplishments What you?ve done and how uve changed the trajectory of your life is remarkable! Keep being positive and encouraging to everyone around u!



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 20, 2018, 02:47:32 PM
Quote
...the Bombers did him a favour and released him so he and play in the NFL I remember that he said he would be back in Winnipeg in a heartbeat.

I don't ever remember Muamba making such a statement.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 02:49:18 PM
I don't ever remember Muamba making such a statement.
Who said he said that?  Your quote doesn't include a name. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BlueInCgy on March 20, 2018, 02:52:30 PM
Who said he said that?  Your quote doesn't include a name. 

It's in the third tweet Aards posted from Wade Razella


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 20, 2018, 02:53:32 PM
He played out his option. Don't remember any early release per se.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 02:55:05 PM
He played out his option. Don't remember any early release per se.
IIRC he was released a few weeks early, prior to hitting free agency. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 02:55:47 PM
It's in the third tweet Aards posted from Wade Razella
Thanks. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 20, 2018, 03:21:07 PM
I don't ever remember Muamba making such a statement.

Me neither. However, I remember *hoping* that would be the case. Really, really badly. lol.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 20, 2018, 03:37:39 PM
Me neither. However, I remember *hoping* that would be the case. Really, really badly. lol.

I think we all did. MLB has been a mess ever since his departure. :-[


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: wpg#1 on March 20, 2018, 03:42:35 PM
Who's Wade Razella ?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 03:53:16 PM
Who's Wade Razella ?
And does he post on this forum? 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 20, 2018, 03:55:21 PM
Who's Wade Razella ?

he is a Bomber fan with a twitter account and an opinion...like 000's of us


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 20, 2018, 04:07:14 PM
Seems his heart might have skipped a beat....he had opportunities to play here but chose Montreal and then the Riders.....so I doubt the validity of the statement he?d be back in the Peg in a heartbeat even if he said it.   He?s following the $$ and you?d think at this point in his career he?d be weighing stability over a longer term...but then that?s just me trying to think logically.   🧐


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 20, 2018, 04:34:39 PM
It appears we've only added ONE new LB since the end of 2017. Jervais Jones and he may have actually been on the PR at the end of the season.

Kyries Wilson was also on the PR in 2017.

So in total there are only 5 import LB's on the entire roster and 4 Canadians.

OTOH, we've got 21 DB's??!!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 04:36:32 PM
It appears we've only added ONE new LB since the end of 2017. Jervais Jones and he may have actually been on the PR at the end of the season.

Kyries Wilson was also on the PR in 2017.

So in total there are only 5 import LB's on the entire roster and 4 Canadians.

OTOH, we've got 21 DB's??!!
You only need to start 2 LBs. And counting SAM as a DB, you start 6 DBs. That ratio sounds about right.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 20, 2018, 04:41:55 PM
You only need to start 2 LBs. And counting SAM as a DB, you start 6 DBs. That ratio sounds about right.

You're missing the point. We've done essentially nothing to date to improve what we have at LB.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: wpg#1 on March 20, 2018, 04:44:08 PM
he is a Bomber fan with a twitter account and an opinion...like 000's of us

Oh, ok ... Just thought maybe he was a reporter or involved with a team.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 04:48:22 PM
You're missing the point. We've done essentially nothing to date to improve what we have at LB.
Maybe the coaching staff and management are high on the LBs currently on the PR.  And yes we have improved by subtraction; by not re-signing Hurl.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 20, 2018, 04:58:19 PM
Maybe the coaching staff and management are high on the LBs currently on the PR.  And yes we have improved by subtraction; by not re-signing Hurl.

Getting rid of Hurl was good but we need more bodies to compete. IMO it's a bit odd we haven't added a few more LB's at this point.

Not going to give management to much credit ( at this point ) for being high on extra 2 LB's ( Wilson and Jones ) when we have not been solid at LB for 4 years running.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on March 20, 2018, 05:12:22 PM
Are there any stud MLB's in the draft this year.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 20, 2018, 05:18:07 PM
Are there any stud MLB's in the draft this year.

I haven't heard of any and it's very rare to find a Canadian LB in the draft that can start in season 1 ( IE a stud ). If there is such a player he'll be gone by our 1st pick.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 20, 2018, 05:18:59 PM
Are there any stud MLB's in the draft this year.

Just one LB in the top 20 (December 2017 rankings - https://www.cfl.ca/2017/12/13/knevel-stays-top-december-scouting-bureau-rankings/ (https://www.cfl.ca/2017/12/13/knevel-stays-top-december-scouting-bureau-rankings/)): Nelkas Kwemo (17th).


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 20, 2018, 05:25:36 PM
Darrin Bauming

 
@DarrinBauming
 46s47 seconds ago
More
As per @TSN1290Radio?s report last week, Kyle Walters confirms Henoc Muamba will not be signing with the #Bombers. Muamba remains a free agent.


Put this thread to rest



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 20, 2018, 05:27:00 PM
Ed Tait

 
@EdTaitWFC
 58s59 seconds ago
More
Kyle Walters, #Bombers GM, says book is essentially closed on Henoc Muamba coming to Winnipeg. Wanted to be highest paid Canadian and club wasn?t going to pay him more than Andrew Harris


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Marni on March 20, 2018, 05:27:59 PM
Ed Tait

 
@EdTaitWFC
 58s59 seconds ago
More
Kyle Walters, #Bombers GM, says book is essentially closed on Henoc Muamba coming to Winnipeg. Wanted to be highest paid Canadian and club wasn?t going to pay him more than Andrew Harris

This is sad but I understand their reasoning.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 20, 2018, 05:28:56 PM
Just one LB in the top 20 (December 2017 rankings - https://www.cfl.ca/2017/12/13/knevel-stays-top-december-scouting-bureau-rankings/ (https://www.cfl.ca/2017/12/13/knevel-stays-top-december-scouting-bureau-rankings/)): Nelkas Kwemo (17th).

Athletic kid. QB, receiver, returner, ST's and LB???  Could make someone's roster because of his athletic ability.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 05:29:04 PM
Oh well.  Time to move on...

Pretty sure GOLDMEMBER had the over-under on this thread at 55 on when a decision would be made!  I believe he took the over and we are now at page 56!  


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 20, 2018, 05:31:27 PM
Ed Tait

 
@EdTaitWFC
 58s59 seconds ago
More
Kyle Walters, #Bombers GM, says book is essentially closed on Henoc Muamba coming to Winnipeg. Wanted to be highest paid Canadian and club wasn?t going to pay him more than Andrew Harris

Well, as long as Walters finds a solution at MLB then it's the right choice. If it's another year of poor play at MLB then Walters should be shown the door IMO.

That said it's still not really over until Muamba signs elsewhere.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Jockitch on March 20, 2018, 05:32:29 PM
        GO JSK GO  ;D  GO JSK GO  ;D  GO JSK GO  ;D .......... have a super year.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 20, 2018, 05:35:07 PM
Ed Tait

 
@EdTaitWFC
 58s59 seconds ago
More
Kyle Walters, #Bombers GM, says book is essentially closed on Henoc Muamba coming to Winnipeg. Wanted to be highest paid Canadian and club wasn?t going to pay him more than Andrew Harris

Ridiculous. What ever happened to earning your worth?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 05:36:16 PM
Ridiculous. What ever happened to earning your worth?
Dunk said Harris was getting close to $190k this season, so Muamba wants more than that. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 66 Chevelle on March 20, 2018, 05:37:29 PM
well I hope they have a plan B...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 05:41:46 PM
well I hope they have a plan B...
Plan B = JSK & Wild


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 20, 2018, 05:41:49 PM
Dunk said Harris was getting close to $190k this season, so Muamba wants more than that. 

My guess is Reed will pony up and pay him. And then he'll get released prior to next year's free agency period.

This is so disappointing.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 05:42:59 PM
My guess is Reed will pony up and pay him. And then he'll get released prior to next year's free agency period.

This is so disappointing.
I'm just glad this whole circus is over.  I'm excited to see what JSK can do with a full season! 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 20, 2018, 05:44:05 PM
What's your guys' favourite pizza topping?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 05:45:00 PM
What's your guys' favourite pizza topping?
Too funny!!   :D


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 20, 2018, 05:52:53 PM
if Muamba was smart...and took the so called attractive offer in addition to the gift from the rider's...with the understanding that if he showed he "should" be the highest paid Canadian on the Bombers..possibly the league that an extension reflecting that would be implemented for 2019...instead of this drawn out process he is creating now...where in the end he could more than likely end up making less...or have same thing happen next year and he gets dumped again...losing out on more off-season bonus money.

This guy must have some kind of ego...and really wouldn't really want him on my team with that type of mindset...cause what if we payed him as such and others on the team (canadians) performed better, or in the league were better players for less money...would he give some back...or agree to a performance based cut in year 2?...higly doubt it...if you ask me...good riddance


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 20, 2018, 06:08:16 PM
This guy must have some kind of ego...

I wonder how much of it is his clown of an agent stroking said ego.

Muamba is no doubt worth a handsome sum but wanting higher pay than Harris - someone who's literally carried teams on his back - is flat out insanity.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 20, 2018, 06:20:15 PM
your agent works for you...and doesn't make the final decisions...he takes what you tell him you want and tries to broker that deal best he can..this is all on Henoc


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 20, 2018, 06:21:45 PM
your agent works for you...and doesn't make the final decisions...he takes what you tell him you want and tries to broker that deal best he can..this is all on Henoc

For sure. But if an agent can build up a player's perceived self-worth, doesn't that benefit the agent and how much he'll make?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 20, 2018, 06:21:53 PM
Wow.  Walters doesn't put up with this crap, eh?  

Effectively saying: "The contract is still on the table, but he won't be signing it"

So, using us against Mtl is now off the table for HM and company.  If HM wants to be the highest paid NAT in Mtl, he's got 55 to deal with.  Love to see Reed make him the highest paid Al...

Muamba wants to negotiate in the media, I guess Waters just returned the favour.  And told us fans why...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 20, 2018, 06:25:50 PM
For sure. But if an agent can build up a player's perceived self-worth, doesn't that benefit the agent and how much he'll make?
Sure an agent will try and do that and may suggest a number..or term...because he gets paid a percentage...just like a job recruitor...but at the end of the day...all decisions are made by player.

It's an interesting dynamic because the more a player may get...kind of the less he is gonna earn...Take it from when I played when the NFL minimum was around 500k a year..after taxes...and agent cut a player was lucky to see around 30% of that 500 k in his hands...and it's worse the higher you go...in the CFL where the money is significantly less you don't want to be greasing your agents palms like that


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 20, 2018, 06:26:58 PM
Well...barring some kind of change of heart all our eggs are in the 6 NATs on offence basket. Unless Greenwood is a possibility. We better stay healthy at NAT starter or our season will go up in flames.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BlueInCgy on March 20, 2018, 06:27:12 PM
Good on Walters for cutting the legs off this one.  Henoc overplayed his hand dramatically, not thinking one player would drop out.

Not happy that he won't be here, but glad we don't have to speculate about it anymore.

Still think the odds are pretty good we end up trading for either Woods or Reed.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 20, 2018, 06:30:48 PM
Good on Walters for cutting the legs off this one.  Henoc overplayed his hand dramatically, not thinking one player would drop out.

Not happy that he won't be here, but glad we don't have to speculate about it anymore.

Still think the odds are pretty good we end up trading for either Woods or Reed.

We won't be trading for either of them. We could have had either one if we wanted them and we didn't. Don't tell me that's because we were in the hunt for Muamba either, because realistically we weren't. 190-200k is fair market value for Henoc and we chose to not extend an offer that high.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 20, 2018, 06:43:49 PM
obviously i have no intimate knowledge of the sms position the Bombers are in but I would have paid HM a deal close to $200K or even more if some was incentive based.  Makes the team better.

It isn't that exorbitant amount of $$...Westerman is making that and HM is every bit as good as him.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 06:56:54 PM
Here?s what Steve Morley says: I think Henoc is worth more than Andrew Harris.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 20, 2018, 06:57:28 PM
As a Bomber fan I am conditioned to disappointment..... :'(


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Tehedra on March 20, 2018, 06:59:14 PM
Remember though; he already got 30k for this year; so if he wants 190 or 200k; thats really 220 to 230k for the year.  To me that puts it into perspective.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 20, 2018, 06:59:23 PM
Morley says some stupid things....Harris will win you more games over course of a year than Henoc will...or any linebacker for that matter
Also Harris plays his heart out and will do whatever for the team first...Henoc...I don't think so much


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 20, 2018, 07:00:59 PM
Here?s what Steve Morley says: I think Henoc is worth more than Andrew Harris.
well he?s a bit younger and maybe has a few more seasons than AH.....we definitely have more options on offence but it?s the defence which still concerns me....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: The Zipp on March 20, 2018, 07:02:27 PM
Here?s what Steve Morley says: I think Henoc is worth more than Andrew Harris.

Honestly I can see the argument for that....BUT i do wish Walters wouldn't have even said that comparison statement with Harris...he could have just said HM wants more money than we are willing to pay and leave it at that.  They play two different positions so the comparison is largely invalid.

I don't think HM cares about being the highest paid Canadian on the team - he just wants more money and feels he is worth the $200K or more.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 07:04:49 PM
On the one hand, I'm happy Walters is sticking to his guns and not getting involved in a bidding war with Kavis. 

But on the other hand, I'm thinking, "What's $10-20k"?  Just get the deal done. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 20, 2018, 07:08:30 PM
Remember though; he already got 30k for this year; so if he wants 190 or 200k; thats really 220 to 230k for the year.  To me that puts it into perspective.

What does that put into perspective? His bonus from the Riders bares no relevance to a contract offer from another team.

On the one hand, I'm happy Walters is sticking to his guns and not getting involved in a bidding war with Kavis. 

But on the other hand, I'm thinking, "What's $10-20k"?  Just get the deal done. 

If that's all it came down to between getting him or not, that's beyond disappointing. :-[


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Tehedra on March 20, 2018, 07:29:31 PM
What does that put into perspective? His bonus from the Riders bares no relevance to a contract offer from another team.

If that's all it came down to between getting him or not, that's beyond disappointing. :-[

I disagree bluegold, it may not have relevance on us; but it means that if he wants a 200k deal for the season from the bombers, that HM views his worth as somewhere near 230k; it means he will most likely be looking at 230k the following year or will want to leave then as well.  Cutting players to make room for a rental is not how one builds a team.  So it does put it into perspective.  Not only that, but that 30k comes out of the SMS somewhere; no matter what its a cap hit and other players will see the 230k and not care if 30k came from sask while the rest came from Manitoba.  Instead they will look at total compensation and that is a line that some teams may not want to cross; except for montreal.  Although I would say he hasn't signed at Montreal yet either so I'm assuming they aren't playing as nice as he had hoped.

Also remember; Sask did not feel he was worth the salary themselves; so Walters isn't the only GM saying he doesn't feel Henocs value is where Henoc believes his value is


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 07:32:32 PM
If it was only the Bombers and Als interested, and Walters essentially pulled out today, Henoc now loses leverage in his negotiations with the Als.  Why would the Als bid against themselves? 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on March 20, 2018, 07:43:00 PM
The bonus that the Riders paid him has nothing to do with how much he's worth now. I once got a bonus that was more than my yearly salary to stick around during a transition. That didn't mean that my next employer got to pay me nothing cuz I already got it from my original employer.

What Harris makes has no bearing on what other NI's make. Muamba wants 190K+, just like Westerman did because they are NI's who play like imports. Muamba would also fix our glaring problem at MLB.

I for one am disappointed that we won't get Muamba. I am happy, however, that we can finally put this to rest.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 20, 2018, 07:53:33 PM
Honestly I can see the argument for that....BUT i do wish Walters wouldn't have even said that comparison statement with Harris...he could have just said HM wants more money than we are willing to pay and leave it at that.  They play two different positions so the comparison is largely invalid.

I don't think HM cares about being the highest paid Canadian on the team - he just wants more money and feels he is worth the $200K or more.

Walters is making the Harris comparison for only one reason.  To position himself with fans in the p.r. fallout.  Using this comparison gets the average fan, who loves Harris, to think "of course he's not going to get more than Harris".   Its just a clever way of making it clear that he did everything he reasonably could to sign Muamba and deflect criticism for the "sign him at any cost" crowd.  It also turns the heat back up on Muamba and Hardaway, a signal that if they are going to move their number, now is the time.

I think this has been well managed by Walters.  I also hold no bitterness against Muamba.  He is worth every bit as much as Harris, Westerman, or Laurent.  No reason why he shouldn't try to get it. It ain't personal, it's just business....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 20, 2018, 08:00:41 PM
Walters is making the Harris comparison for only one reason.  To position himself with fans in the p.r. fallout.  Using this comparison gets the average fan, who loves Harris, to think "of course he's not going to get more than Harris".   Its just a clever way of making it clear that he did everything he reasonably could to sign Muamba and deflect criticism for the "sign him at any cost" crowd.  It also turns the heat back up on Muamba and Hardaway, a signal that if they are going to move their number, now is the time.

I think this has been well managed by Walters.  I also hold no bitterness against Muamba.  He is worth every bit as much as Harris, Westerman, or Laurent.  No reason why he shouldn't try to get it. It ain't personal, it's just business....
Well said. Makes me think that maybe this isn?t over just yet. Walters did say that his offer is still on the table.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BlueInCgy on March 20, 2018, 08:08:24 PM
Well said. Makes me think that maybe this isn?t over just yet. Walters did say that his offer is still on the table.

The Tait article on cfl.ca would indicate this issue is dead for the WBB.

https://www.cfl.ca/2018/03/20/bombers-gm-walters-henoc-will-not-coming/


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 20, 2018, 08:27:02 PM
The Tait article on cfl.ca would indicate this issue is dead for the WBB.

https://www.cfl.ca/2018/03/20/bombers-gm-walters-henoc-will-not-coming/

That only suggests Walters doesn't expect him here or for him to reverse his ask contract wise.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 20, 2018, 08:32:17 PM
If it was only the Bombers and Als interested, and Walters essentially pulled out today, Henoc now loses leverage in his negotiations with the Als.  Why would the Als bid against themselves? 

Because Kavis Reed.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 20, 2018, 08:37:25 PM
No issues with Muamba going for the brass ring, its just that he's the only player that does it this way, and he's not winning any fans doing it, or doing the teams or league any justice. 

Did we hear a peep out of Woods or Reed before they signed?  Or even Westerman?

I would not be surprised if HM got less than what the first offers might have been floated out when he "wasn't even taking offers" right after his release.  And all this effort will only have gotten him a black eye and a mercenary tag.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: PurpleReign on March 20, 2018, 08:38:13 PM
Good riddance I am not on the Henoc bandwagon and never have been.  Let him sign with Montreal and later get cut because his play is not up to par.  He is not worth $200K+  JSK and Wild will be fine.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Jockitch on March 20, 2018, 09:28:38 PM
Well...barring some kind of change of heart all our eggs are in the 6 NATs on offence basket. Unless Greenwood is a possibility. We better stay healthy at NAT starter or our season will go up in flames.
               absolutely  X 2


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 20, 2018, 09:50:33 PM
Well...barring some kind of change of heart all our eggs are in the 6 NATs on offence basket. Unless Greenwood is a possibility. We better stay healthy at NAT starter or our season will go up in flames.

There is still the "second D Nat by committee" option...  Corney, Ekakitie, any of the DB's... in rotation...

but if Demski proves out and stays healthy, he's no downgrade on your average 4th Rec, and with Adams, Bowman and Dressler, that's a pretty good Rec corps, regardless who is #5...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 21, 2018, 12:30:35 AM
There is still the "second D Nat by committee" option...  Corney, Ekakitie, any of the DB's... in rotation...

but if Demski proves out and stays healthy, he's no downgrade on your average 4th Rec, and with Adams, Bowman and Dressler, that's a pretty good Rec corps, regardless who is #5...

That means 1 of Johnson, Nevis, Okapaulgo, Jeffocoat or a starting DB are off the field on every down. Your by committee idea is a failure.

It also means any injury to a starting Canadian and we'll be recruiting the next starter from a high school team.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 21, 2018, 12:41:30 AM
That means 1 of Johnson, Nevis, Okapaulgo, Jeffocoat or a starting DB are off the field on every down. Your by committee idea is a failure.

It also means any injury to a starting Canadian and we'll be recruiting the next starter from a high school team.
Your posts sure are overly negative lately.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 21, 2018, 12:51:53 AM
Coates, Jones and Lafrance are in the wings waiting to play, out NAT depth has never been stronger.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 21, 2018, 12:59:03 AM
Your posts sure are overly negative lately.

I mean, he isn't wrong. Muamba would've been huge for the ratio flexibility of the team.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 21, 2018, 01:00:47 AM
I mean, he isn't wrong. Muamba would've been huge for the ratio flexibility of the team.
Sure Muamba would have been nice, but look at the tone and language of his post. There?s some deep, deep hostility there.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 21, 2018, 01:33:57 AM
He's got to get a grip. We will succeed with or without HM. I couldn't care one way or the other. Yes, it would be nice to have him,  but if he decides to go elsewhere , c est la vie!!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on March 21, 2018, 01:55:34 AM
I think HM is worth every penny of 200K. As Harris is worth every penny of what he is making. I also agree that HM is worth as much as Westerman, and he is a little younger.   


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 21, 2018, 02:50:02 AM
Walters is making the Harris comparison for only one reason.  To position himself with fans in the p.r. fallout.  Using this comparison gets the average fan, who loves Harris, to think "of course he's not going to get more than Harris".   Its just a clever way of making it clear that he did everything he reasonably could to sign Muamba and deflect criticism for the "sign him at any cost" crowd.  It also turns the heat back up on Muamba and Hardaway, a signal that if they are going to move their number, now is the time.

I think this has been well managed by Walters.  I also hold no bitterness against Muamba.  He is worth every bit as much as Harris, Westerman, or Laurent.  No reason why he shouldn't try to get it. It ain't personal, it's just business....

Agreed, I think the reference is unfortunate and probably added because Walters had weeks to mull over his statement to the press, which seems to have been made solely to let fans down and change the channel abruptly in the lead up to CFL week.  Some posters have taken his statement as if Muamba demanded to be the highest paid Natl. on the team, while a more likely scenario is he demanded a salary number that Walters chose to reference in relation A.H.'s salary. 

Over a couple of press conferences you can pick up the vibe that Walters is somewhat exasperated by Muamba and Hardaway's negotiating tactics.  I'd love to hear what he has to say about them "off-record".


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bunker on March 21, 2018, 03:24:41 AM
Agreed, I think the reference is unfortunate and probably added because Walters had weeks to mull over his statement to the press, which seems to have been made solely to let fans down and change the channel abruptly in the lead up to CFL week.  Some posters have taken his statement as if Muamba demanded to be the highest paid Natl. on the team, while a more likely scenario is he demanded a salary number that Walters chose to reference in relation A.H.'s salary. 

Over a couple of press conferences you can pick up the vibe that Walters is somewhat exasperated by Muamba and Hardaway's negotiating tactics.  I'd love to hear what he has to say about them "off-record".
I think there is an internal salary structure of sorts within the team.

Harris was most outstanding canadian, a CFL all star and the heart of the team. Probably the idea of paying Muamba more than Harris left a sour taste in the mouth's of Bomber's management, particularly given his mercenary approach to finding a team.

It may also have had a domino effect on salaries when the time came to resign our other starting Nats.

There's also a sence that offering Muamba more may not have been the last word, that he would then shuttle back to Montreal to see if they would up their offer, and the merry go round would continue.

Throw in the fact that signing Muamba would likely have meant releasing a quality vet that signed in good faith, and put it on the line for the team last year, and I can see why Walters walked away.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TecnoGenius on March 21, 2018, 06:12:11 AM
I think there is an internal salary structure of sorts within the team.

Harris was most outstanding canadian, a CFL all star and the heart of the team. Probably the idea of paying Muamba more than Harris left a sour taste in the mouth's of Bomber's management, particularly given his mercenary approach to finding a team.

It may also have had a domino effect on salaries when the time came to resign our other starting Nats.

You said it.  If HM is worth $200 then Harris is worth $250.  What value did HM give SSK in '17?  Less than Singleton did CGY, and what did he make?  Less than Woods gave TOR, and what did he make?  In fact, other than a few shining moments HM was mostly average.  Sure, maybe HM is worth $200, but then every NAT needs to be paid more, starting with Harris.

If we want to blow a big wad, bring in a top-rate player who wants to be here, isn't such a mercenary, and it wouldn't cost as much.  Like Woods and Reed.  We're setup so that we didn't need a NAT MLB, so why all this bother?  I'm sure Woods or Reed would have been overjoyed to play here for $150, and on a 2 year contract.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.  Moving on, my favorite "weird" pizza topping is artichokes.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 21, 2018, 11:18:39 AM
You said it.  If HM is worth $200 then Harris is worth $250.  What value did HM give SSK in '17?  Less than Singleton did CGY, and what did he make?  Less than Woods gave TOR, and what did he make?  In fact, other than a few shining moments HM was mostly average.  Sure, maybe HM is worth $200, but then every NAT needs to be paid more, starting with Harris.

If we want to blow a big wad, bring in a top-rate player who wants to be here, isn't such a mercenary, and it wouldn't cost as much.  Like Woods and Reed.  We're setup so that we didn't need a NAT MLB, so why all this bother?  I'm sure Woods or Reed would have been overjoyed to play here for $150, and on a 2 year contract.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.  Moving on, my favorite "weird" pizza topping is artichokes.


All your comparisons here are apples and oranges. Comparing Henoc's worth to Harris, Woods, and Reed makes no sense. One is a NAT RB, the other two are IMP LBers. By your reasoning we should have cut bait on Harris and not paid him because as a RB we could easily replace his productivity with an IMP.

Every team is going to have high priced NATs that have equally tempting IMP counterparts that can be signed for much cheaper. However, unless you want to field scrubs at NAT starting positions you have to be prepared to pay the piper.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 21, 2018, 12:28:59 PM
I don't think Henoc is worth what Westerman is getting...but then again Westerman isn't worth what he is getting as well...both should be in and around Ted Laurent money...200k...maybe build in an incentive/bonus for a MODP...or MOC award.

Harris at a bump tto 190k this year in my opinion is a steal...for what he brings to the team, and how his play makes others around him elevate theirs is invaluable...now Henoc would have been nice as a ratio flex guy, but he isn't worth being paid as the highest paid player other than Matt Nichols and in affecting the salary structure next year for key guys needing new deals/extensions...just makes no sense.

We don't even know yet who/what is coming to camp to compete for spots on defense and maybe a guy steps up who is canadian and takes a defensive spot...or a guy elsewhere gets the just before camp walking papers and comes in on a value deal and fills a spot...time will tell

Regardless...a defense with fulltime use of Opo..Jeffcoat..Nevis..Poop..Ekakite..Corney..Roh up front and JSK...Wild/random import...one of Leggett/Fenner and a backfield with some combination of Randle..Loffler..Clarke..Gaitor..Alexander..Walker is a much...MUCH better defense than what we constantly rolled last year if you ask me...The extra experience alone for the 3 rookies learned last year makes them better.

Same with on offence...We know what Adams and Dressler will give get you...Bowman will give us more than what Denmark did/can...Demski as well will give us more than what the other 4th import last year produced and Coates/Drew W....whoever the 5th Canadian reciever is will give just as much or more than what that position got us over the last 3 years...That doesn't even factor in our o-line is locked down and the same for pretty much 3 years now, and the presence of Harris and Nichols...with Flanders and Lafrance kicking around...we will be o.k...use the Henoc money elsewhere when a real need arises...or to extend some core guys who are coming up needing new deals


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 21, 2018, 12:41:18 PM

Bob Irving @BobIrvingCJOB
12h12 hours ago
Kudos to Kyle Walters for drawing the line on what to pay Henoc Muamba. It?s easy to upset your payroll balance but it?s not great for team chemistry. Seems to me that off-field ?opportunities? in Wpg & a chance to win would have made a difference but apparently not.


The problem a player creates when he goes public with negotiations is similar to salary arbitration, you end up declaring certain things, either directly or indirectly, that can affect your place in the locker room.  It might not be front and centre through the year, but it can fester, and in a moment of stress, someone's track suit ends up in the shower.

Our team is a very solid group, here for a purpose, and none are being taken advantage of financially.  Some are taking less than what they could have gotten elsewhere, because they believe in this team, and they want to be here, and being part of this team is more than just a job and a paycheck.

I truly believe that had Walters given in to HM's primadonna demands, it would have affected the team chemistry.

Now, if Muamba comes back and accepts the offer, I think it will be fine to add him to the team.  The question is, will his ego allow that.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 21, 2018, 12:55:43 PM
Your posts sure are overly negative lately.

I don't think so. Just getting tired of Aards and always always thinking the backups are fine and just plug and play. Similar stuff was spewed going into 2017 thinking Hurl was going to be fine.

We have issues with the ratio that have not been resolved.

You might want to read the " negative " garbage we've read in this post string slamming Muamba's personality and the things said about him. Such as " good riddance to rubbish "? I haven't seen you call those posters as negative.

Don't sign him? Fine. No need for the attacks on him IMO.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 21, 2018, 01:07:16 PM
He's got to get a grip. We will succeed with or without HM. I couldn't care one way or the other. Yes, it would be nice to have him,  but if he decides to go elsewhere , c est la vie!!

It's not all about HM. It's about managements inability to resolve our MLB position for 4 years. It's not about whether HM should be paid or is worth more than Harris.

A team can win with or without a running game. IMO they seldom win without good play from the MLB position. Perhaps JSK is the answer but that's still a large speculation until proven otherwise. Muamba might have given us the extra uumph / ratio flex to greatly improve our roster.

Everyone understands that Andrew Harris is a dominant player, team leader and important face of the team. He makes our offense work.

As always we'll see how things work out with the team and the season but if you aren't concerned about the ratio you should be.

Funny how when I suggested signing LaFrance when he was a free agent going into 2017 many posters said he was useless. Now he's great depth?  I think he is an improvement to what we had and a good signing. I wouldn't yet go so far as saying great but he has potential.

Somewhat the same with Demski. An upgrade from what we had but 2 Canadian receivers is an overall downgrade.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 21, 2018, 01:34:08 PM
You said it.  If HM is worth $200 then Harris is worth $250.  What value did HM give SSK in '17?  Less than Singleton did CGY, and what did he make?  Less than Woods gave TOR, and what did he make?  In fact, other than a few shining moments HM was mostly average.  Sure, maybe HM is worth $200, but then every NAT needs to be paid more, starting with Harris.

If we want to blow a big wad, bring in a top-rate player who wants to be here, isn't such a mercenary, and it wouldn't cost as much.  Like Woods and Reed.  We're setup so that we didn't need a NAT MLB, so why all this bother?  I'm sure Woods or Reed would have been overjoyed to play here for $150, and on a 2 year contract.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.  Moving on, my favorite "weird" pizza topping is artichokes.


What value did HM give to Regina? Well they gave up 62 less points on defense. They won the ESF by a good margin and they lost the EDF by 4 points to the eventual GC winners by 4 points. HM led the team with 10 DT's.

It's a team game but HM's play in 2017 can hardly be called mostly average. Don't like his personality? Neither do I but he's a quality player.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: sweep the leg on March 21, 2018, 01:41:54 PM


Somewhat the same with Demski. An upgrade from what we had but 2 Canadian receivers is an overall downgrade.

How so? We'll most likely improve at mlb with JSK or Wild instead of Hurl and the ratio change there. At receiver, we had JFG and a revolving door of Americans as our bottom two receivers. Coates took JFGs job away in the playoffs, and at worst Demski will be a break even with the nothing we got at his spot last year.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: SSC on March 21, 2018, 01:43:42 PM
I don't think so. Just getting tired of Aards and always always thinking the backups are fine and just plug and play. Similar stuff was spewed going into 2017 thinking Hurl was going to be fine.

We have issues with the ratio that have not been resolved.

You might want to read the " negative " garbage we've read in this post string slamming Muamba's personality and the things said about him. Such as " good riddance to rubbish "? I haven't seen you call those posters as negative.

Don't sign him? Fine. No need for the attacks on him IMO.

Thank you, well said.




Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on March 21, 2018, 01:45:32 PM
Harris' salary at $190K points out the difference between a starting NI RB and a starting Imp RB. Wilder made $56K last year and he was as good a back down the stretch. RB's are cheap compared to other spots because there are lots of them who are difference makers.

Westerman and Muamba are both worth $200K. Walters tried to get each of them for less than Harris makes and missed out on both. Maybe Harris has a 'highest paid NI on the team' clause.

It leaves us with 2 starting NI receivers, losing out on Flanders contributions, and being razor thin if any of our starting NI's goes down.

I don't think Jones is any more than a good special teams player. I don't think that a D line rotation with the young NI's is good enough for the 7th NI. Coates had a couple of good games last year, but was mostly invisible. I have no idea if Wolitarski or any of the young backups are any good. None of our import receivers have been able to play a whole season for at least a couple of years and it looks like we won't have a DI to replace one when they go down.

Games are won and lost at the LOS. Our D line talent and ratio are worse with Roh instead of Westerman. Our O line is worse with Neufeld instead of Bond and we're way more likely to have to replace Nuef sometime during the season which will reduce the talent level even more. Hurl, another NI starter, is gone, which hurts the ratio, but anyone who takes his spot is likely a talent upgrade.

Bowman over Denmark is an upgrade. Demski over Coates would be an upgrade, but it's Demski AND Coates so not an upgrade. LaFrance over Normand might be a minor upgrade, but it's more likely that he takes Flanders roster spot and that's a significant downgrade. Fenner and Gaiter should be upgrades, but I question Leggett or Wild playing a whole season. Durant's been done for 3 years now and LeFevour was good at 3rd down sneaks, so I only see this as an upgrade if Nichols goes down and if that happens, we're done anyway.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: SSC on March 21, 2018, 01:48:54 PM

Bob Irving @BobIrvingCJOB
12h12 hours ago
Kudos to Kyle Walters for drawing the line on what to pay Henoc Muamba. It?s easy to upset your payroll balance but it?s not great for team chemistry. Seems to me that off-field ?opportunities? in Wpg & a chance to win would have made a difference but apparently not.


The problem a player creates when he goes public with negotiations is similar to salary arbitration, you end up declaring certain things, either directly or indirectly, that can affect your place in the locker room.  It might not be front and centre through the year, but it can fester, and in a moment of stress, someone's track suit ends up in the shower.

Bob Irving is past his due date. I'm sure old Bob would go into his bosses office and say he would take less money because he's a team player and he's concerned about "chemistry". I'm willing to bet everyone on the Bomber's roster would love to have Muamba.

Our team is a very solid group, here for a purpose, and none are being taken advantage of financially.  Some are taking less than what they could have gotten elsewhere, because they believe in this team, and they want to be here, and being part of this team is more than just a job and a paycheck.

I truly believe that had Walters given in to HM's primadonna demands, it would have affected the team chemistry.

Now, if Muamba comes back and accepts the offer, I think it will be fine to add him to the team.  The question is, will his ego allow that.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Mike on March 21, 2018, 01:49:00 PM
How so? We'll most likely improve at mlb with JSK or Wild instead of Hurl and the ratio change there. At receiver, we had JFG and a revolving door of Americans as our bottom two receivers. Coates took JFGs job away in the playoffs, and at worst Demski will be a break even with the nothing we got at his spot last year.

This is exactly what I've had trouble understanding. Our 4th and 5th receiver spots were mediocre at best last year and we did just fine ... how is solidifying them going to make them worse?

OTOH, let's say we DO have a downgrade at the 5th receiver spot ... if it improves our MLB spot, is that not a plus for us overall?

Personally, I'll say the same thing I've been saying all along - JSK will surprise at MLB and I'm excited to see Javaris Jones as well. We have enough weapons on offence that I'm not too worried if our 5th receiver only gives us 200 yards all year. I also won't be surprised if we still use a 2nd CDN on D - anyone who thinks we won't could be fooling themselves, we gave Corney, Miles (towards the end of the year), Jake Thomas and Jesse Briggs regular snaps on D last year ... why would we not do the same thing this year?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 21, 2018, 01:59:09 PM
How so? We'll most likely improve at mlb with JSK or Wild instead of Hurl and the ratio change there. At receiver, we had JFG and a revolving door of Americans as our bottom two receivers. Coates took JFGs job away in the playoffs, and at worst Demski will be a break even with the nothing we got at his spot last year.

Let me rephrase that comment. The Canadian receivers may be better than Canadian receivers we had in 2017. However it may eliminate Flanders getting on the 44 AR or a quality # 4 import receiver because of the ratio impact.

We didn't start 2 Canadian receivers often in 2017 and now that seems like the plan and IMO that is a downgrade. I'm not even sure if the ratio will allow us to have an import receiver as a DI?

Maybe this is the year where we don't suffer injuries to Adams and Dressler for any extended period.

Ultimately this is more a question of ratio flexibility.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 21, 2018, 02:00:34 PM
From Jeff Hamilton: The #Bombers offered Henoc Muamba a contract around $170,000, plus incentives. Montreal offered more -- a price tag Winnipeg wasn't willing to pay.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bluengold204 on March 21, 2018, 02:05:37 PM
From Jeff Hamilton: The #Bombers offered Henoc Muamba a contract around $170,000, plus incentives. Montreal offered more -- a price tag Winnipeg wasn't willing to pay.

Couldn't just pony up an extra 20K...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 21, 2018, 02:05:57 PM
Agreed...our offence did just fine last year...and is actually improved this year already on paper with what is our "knowns" positionally

Bowman will give us more than Denmark..who he is replacing...Demski tho a National will give more..way more than the 4th Import was last year..just based alone on what his skill set is and how he will be used..Our 5th spot is a wash...not a game changer or breaker by any means within our system and sure Coates..Drew..or a draft pick will do just fine there...we could even see Lafrance..Harris and Demski all coming from the backfield to give defenses fits at the same time...so really if that ratio set-up gives us solid import linebackers..whats the issue..especially at half the cost...most likely more than half the cosy of a Muamba

JSK can play the middle...and has the skills to be a sideline to sideline guy running down everything and he already has a year under his belt to learn the angles and benchmarks of a Canadian filed and he mastered it very fast last year..And Jones who we grabbed last year made me just giddy...can't wait to see him out there...he's a guy who will lay the lumber on people making snot bubbles come out their nose...and as it sits now...our d-line is gonna create havoc..and be very aggressive...and how can you go wrong with Randle..Leggett and Fenner all on the filed at the same time??


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Mike on March 21, 2018, 02:10:39 PM
Couldn't just pony up an extra 20K...

Why would we


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 21, 2018, 02:14:13 PM
Agreed...our offence did just fine last year...and is actually improved this year already on paper with what is our "knowns" positionally

Bowman will give us more than Denmark..who he is replacing...Demski tho a National will give more..way more than the 4th Import was last year..just based alone on what his skill set is and how he will be used..Our 5th spot is a wash...not a game changer or breaker by any means within our system and sure Coates..Drew..or a draft pick will do just fine there...we could even see Lafrance..Harris and Demski all coming from the backfield to give defenses fits at the same time...so really if that ratio set-up gives us solid import linebackers..whats the issue..especially at half the cost...most likely more than half the cosy of a Muamba

JSK can play the middle...and has the skills to be a sideline to sideline guy running down everything and he already has a year under his belt to learn the angles and benchmarks of a Canadian filed and he mastered it very fast last year..And Jones who we grabbed last year made me just giddy...can't wait to see him out there...he's a guy who will lay the lumber on people making snot bubbles come out their nose...and as it sits now...our d-line is gonna create havoc..and be very aggressive...and how can you go wrong with Randle..Leggett and Fenner all on the filed at the same time??

Maybe. Lots of if's. I have some concern about Neufeld being as good as Bond in the run game and then obviously our depth on the OL is weakened by him starting rather than being # 1 back up.

The biggest offensive question for me is whether we're able to roster and use Flanders as we did in 2017. If not that's a big hit.

On defense I hope JSK is as good as some suggestions. However I heard the same about Kyle Knox going into TC last year and when we moved Bass to MLB the year before.

Who will be our DI's positionally: Medlock, Fogg ( or another DB/returner ), a LB ( Jones ), ROH or either Flanders of another receiver?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 21, 2018, 02:14:44 PM
Why would we

Based on his passport and play. Based on his attitude no.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 21, 2018, 02:15:21 PM
Agreed...our offence did just fine last year...and is actually improved this year already on paper with what is our "knowns" positionally

Bowman will give us more than Denmark..who he is replacing...Demski tho a National will give more..way more than the 4th Import was last year..just based alone on what his skill set is and how he will be used..Our 5th spot is a wash...not a game changer or breaker by any means within our system and sure Coates..Drew..or a draft pick will do just fine there...we could even see Lafrance..Harris and Demski all coming from the backfield to give defenses fits at the same time...so really if that ratio set-up gives us solid import linebackers..whats the issue..especially at half the cost...most likely more than half the cosy of a Muamba

JSK can play the middle...and has the skills to be a sideline to sideline guy running down everything and he already has a year under his belt to learn the angles and benchmarks of a Canadian filed and he mastered it very fast last year..And Jones who we grabbed last year made me just giddy...can't wait to see him out there...he's a guy who will lay the lumber on people making snot bubbles come out their nose...and as it sits now...our d-line is gonna create havoc..and be very aggressive...and how can you go wrong with Randle..Leggett and Fenner all on the filed at the same time??

Over a full season Neufeld is highly unlikely to stay healthy, and Couture is a HUGE downgrade from Bond. Otherwise, I agree.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bluengold204 on March 21, 2018, 02:21:57 PM
Why would we

No proven MLB and ratio concerns?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 21, 2018, 02:25:12 PM
Over a full season Neufeld is highly unlikely to stay healthy, and Couture is a HUGE downgrade from Bond. Otherwise, I agree.

It will be interesting to see who wins the LG spot out of camp.  Pretty hard for anyone nopt to be a downgrade from Bond, he was a monster Int OT bing used as a LG, who will be starting at OT for SSK this year. Couture and Spooner will have a chance to compete, and who knows, maybe we get a stud OL with our first rounder again, like Goossen or Chungh.  Until we see them in TC, we won't know.  I would love it if Neufeld is our 6th man again... extend his career.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 21, 2018, 02:46:30 PM
Offense did just fine with Nuef in for the last 4 games....to just assume he is going to get hurt because he has before is kind of dumb...you can assume the same with any player then who has been hurt before. Getting hurt is just a random thing speaking from experience...The main reason he was in and out a lot previously...which was 3 years ago now was he was constantly pushed back to play when he wasn't totally 100 percent..because we lacked talent on the o-line...let alone any depth.

Bond was good...but not as good as previous year...and he will look even worse this year if they stick him out at OT...just like he looked putrid when they stuck him at center for some bizzare reason

Can't see why we dont/can't roster Flanders..Lafrance didn't take his spot on the roster...he took Normand's
Flander's will take Lankford's....he isn't needed as we have better receiever options, and guys who can return kicks....and punts tho Lankford was be no means a punt returner.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 21, 2018, 02:50:22 PM
From Jeff Hamilton: The #Bombers offered Henoc Muamba a contract around $170,000, plus incentives. Montreal offered more -- a price tag Winnipeg wasn't willing to pay.

Pretty disappointing the difference supposedly came down to $20-30K. :-[


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 21, 2018, 02:55:48 PM
yEAH BUT THAT 20-30K may have been the difference of signing him and kepig all the other peices in place...or paying it and having to let go Opo..Dressler...Wild..whomever to make it work...and a price that I think would have made us a weaker team overall passport be damned


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 21, 2018, 03:10:05 PM
Pretty disappointing the difference supposedly came down to $20-30K. :-[

Not sure if it was $20-$30 k, it might have been more.  We know it was at least more than $20k, because we purportedly offered 170, and Harris purportedly makes 190, and he was asking for "more than Harris".  Whether it was $20,001 or $50,000, we don't know.

Kavis has damaged the SMS system with his purported $250k deal with Westerman.  Even the purported $200k Laurent deal is affecting negotiations with a trickle effect, considering the fact he is a very good player, but not at the top in his position even, no all-star nod or even player of the week nods all last year.  

Harris at $190k is good value for both team and player.  Harris is an absolute top Nat, voted best in the league last year, and always in the consideration for that award.  Are we getting a home town discount?  An "I want to be a part of this team" discount?  Probably.  But that doesn't mean we are paying him unfairly.

I have no issue with Walters drawing his line in the sand, and if Henoc changes his mind upon further reflection, I'm sure he could slot in here fine.  But had Walters signed him at his ask, I think it would have been a disaster.  Not the extra $30k, just the optics and dynamic going forward.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 21, 2018, 03:37:19 PM
Offense did just fine with Nuef in for the last 4 games....to just assume he is going to get hurt because he has before is kind of dumb...you can assume the same with any player then who has been hurt before. Getting hurt is just a random thing speaking from experience...The main reason he was in and out a lot previously...which was 3 years ago now was he was constantly pushed back to play when he wasn't totally 100 percent..because we lacked talent on the o-line...let alone any depth.

Bond was good...but not as good as previous year...and he will look even worse this year if they stick him out at OT...just like he looked putrid when they stuck him at center for some bizzare reason

Can't see why we dont/can't roster Flanders..Lafrance didn't take his spot on the roster...he took Normand's
Flander's will take Lankford's....he isn't needed as we have better receiever options, and guys who can return kicks....and punts tho Lankford was be no means a punt returner.

There is nothing dumb about worrying about Neufeld's durability. It is a question mark that has surrounded him his entire career. If his problems were broken bones or contact injuries, I could see your point but he has suffered from soft tissue injuries related to his size.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 21, 2018, 03:42:59 PM
from what I know 2 times it was lower leg ankle issues that kept him out...and from coming back before being 100 percent ready and caused a calf injury



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 21, 2018, 03:52:32 PM
for $30,000, I can't believe we couldn't have made this work, even if it meant cutting other players. We need a solid LBing corps, and I am not sold on Wild's health one bit. I would have rather had HM at MLB and JSK at WILL with Wild for depth and cut say an Opo, but we'll see how this plays out. To me, its more about getting depth at Linebacker, than the $30,000, the $30,000 problem is solvable, Wild gets hurt and we're in a world of pain again.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bomb squad on March 21, 2018, 03:58:28 PM

Bob Irving @BobIrvingCJOB
12h12 hours ago
Kudos to Kyle Walters for drawing the line on what to pay Henoc Muamba. It?s easy to upset your payroll balance but it?s not great for team chemistry. Seems to me that off-field ?opportunities? in Wpg & a chance to win would have made a difference but apparently not.


The problem a player creates when he goes public with negotiations is similar to salary arbitration, you end up declaring certain things, either directly or indirectly, that can affect your place in the locker room.  It might not be front and centre through the year, but it can fester, and in a moment of stress, someone's track suit ends up in the shower.

Our team is a very solid group, here for a purpose, and none are being taken advantage of financially.  Some are taking less than what they could have gotten elsewhere, because they believe in this team, and they want to be here, and being part of this team is more than just a job and a paycheck.

I truly believe that had Walters given in to HM's primadonna demands, it would have affected the team chemistry.

Now, if Muamba comes back and accepts the offer, I think it will be fine to add him to the team.  The question is, will his ego allow that.


I'm all for throwing out kudos. As long as the team chemistry we didn't sacrifice ends up in the Grey Cup victory we must get.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 21, 2018, 03:58:51 PM
Not sure if it was $20-$30 k, it might have been more.

Yeah, hence my saying supposedly in the post you quoted and then replied to with a useless essay.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 21, 2018, 04:19:53 PM
Yeah, hence my saying supposedly in the post you quoted and then replied to with a useless essay.

Really?  So, I can't remark that the supposed amount may have been more? 

It sounds, though, its not the supposed amount that was the issue, it was that the supposed amount would have supposedly put him into a position of being the literal highest paid Nat on the team, over Andrew Harris, the leagues most outstanding Canadian last year. 

Whether is was a supposed $20,001 difference, or a $50k difference, it wasn't a simple case of just writing a cheque...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 21, 2018, 04:22:51 PM
If Walters upped the offer $30k, Henoc and his agent could have just taken that to Kavis as leverage to get the Als to increase their offer.  Maybe Walters got a sense he was being used as leverage.  Once that occurs, Walters made the right move by bowing out and thus killing Henoc's leverage. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on March 21, 2018, 04:49:44 PM
As long as we're playing the 'maybe' card...

Maybe Walters overpaid some of our players so he doesn't have much SMS left over.

Maybe Walters doesn't have enough money left in the SMS because he hired Durant as the backup QB.

Maybe Walters wants to pay less than it takes for a starting NI who plays like an import.

Maybe Walters only wants players that he can get for 'the Winnipeg discount'.

Maybe $20K more would have got either Westerman or Muamba, but we'll never know.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 21, 2018, 04:56:24 PM
As long as we're playing the 'maybe' card...

Maybe Walters overpaid some of our players so he doesn't have much SMS left over.

Maybe Walters doesn't have enough money left in the SMS because he hired Durant as the backup QB.

Maybe Walters wants to pay less than it takes for a starting NI who plays like an import.

Maybe Walters only wants players that he can get for 'the Winnipeg discount'.

Maybe $20K more would have got either Westerman or Muamba, but we'll never know.


Or maybe he has a plan, and wants to stick to it.

Maybe he has faith that our current rostered MLB's will play as good or better than HM.

Maybe he just doesn't think HM will fit with our guys, and doesn't want MOS getting stuck doing Duron Carter type psychotherapy on a daily basis to make him fit.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 21, 2018, 05:03:15 PM
Or maybe he has a plan, and wants to stick to it.

Maybe he has faith that our current rostered MLB's will play as good or better than HM.

Why make a play for Muamba at all, then? ::)

Trying to sign Muamba was obviously a part of the plan and it didn't work out as planned.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on March 21, 2018, 05:19:38 PM
Or maybe he has a plan, and wants to stick to it.

Maybe he has faith that our current rostered MLB's will play as good or better than HM.

Maybe he just doesn't think HM will fit with our guys, and doesn't want MOS getting stuck doing Duron Carter type psychotherapy on a daily basis to make him fit.
If any of those were true, then he wouldn't have made an offer to Muamba in the first place and certainly wouldn't have flown him in for a wine and dine.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 21, 2018, 05:33:25 PM
Offense did just fine with Nuef in for the last 4 games....to just assume he is going to get hurt because he has before is kind of dumb...you can assume the same with any player then who has been hurt before. Getting hurt is just a random thing speaking from experience...The main reason he was in and out a lot previously...which was 3 years ago now was he was constantly pushed back to play when he wasn't totally 100 percent..because we lacked talent on the o-line...let alone any depth.

Bond was good...but not as good as previous year...and he will look even worse this year if they stick him out at OT...just like he looked putrid when they stuck him at center for some bizzare reason

Can't see why we dont/can't roster Flanders..Lafrance didn't take his spot on the roster...he took Normand's
Flander's will take Lankford's....he isn't needed as we have better receiever options, and guys who can return kicks....and punts tho Lankford was be no means a punt returner.

Flanders was our # 4 import receiver & 2 RB on the roster last year. All the other import receivers were subs when Adams and Dressler were injured. We only had 1 Canadian receiver last year.

The ratio allowed us to keep him on the 44 AR.

This year ratio is dictating we use 2 Canadian receivers so that makes it much more difficult on getting Flanders on the 44 AR. Even if he does get on as a DI, it means one of Adams, Dressler or Bowman is coming off a given play or series.

That's a much different situation than it was in 2017. Can it happen? Maybe.

Like I said, who or which positions will we see as DI's. We can't get all of the imports we may want on the roster. Medlock is automatic. A DB and a LB are our norm. So choose between the extra DT, DE or RB/receiver.

Roh alternating with Jeffcoat or Oka is easier to do and less disruptive than Flanders replacing a top receiver for example.

Sure Corney will get some reps but IMO Roh or another DE makes the roster as a DL and gets significantly more rotation with the imports.

I'm more than happy if we find a practical way to get Flanders on the AR but I can easily see why they might take a different approach.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 21, 2018, 05:36:00 PM
for $30,000, I can't believe we couldn't have made this work, even if it meant cutting other players. We need a solid LBing corps, and I am not sold on Wild's health one bit. I would have rather had HM at MLB and JSK at WILL with Wild for depth and cut say an Opo, but we'll see how this plays out. To me, its more about getting depth at Linebacker, than the $30,000, the $30,000 problem is solvable, Wild gets hurt and we're in a world of pain again.

I would have been happier if Walters said Muamba wanted more than we thought he was worth. Saying what he said was more of a political PR statement not wanting him to pay him more than Harris.

Whether he's worth more or less is a debatable issue. He didn't need to make that point if he felt he wasn't worth more etc etc.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 21, 2018, 05:41:41 PM
when teams start their off-season work on their roster plan..Henoc was not part of the plan as he was not available...and it seemed pretty apparent with signiongs and moves up to that point that we were planning on going a route where we used 6 Canadians on offence and 1 on defense.

We then tried to fit Henoc into the plan when he became available without trashing all the previous work done and we had a set figure we would be able to work with...and Henoc figures it isn't good enough...it's not like we didn't try hard enough...now if Jones had the decency to cut him loose prior to free agency knowing he was in cap trouble..or would be...then that would be a different story


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 21, 2018, 05:45:56 PM
when teams start their off-season work on their roster plan..Henoc was not part of the plan as he was not available...and it seemed pretty apparent with signiongs and moves up to that point that we were planning on going a route where we used 6 Canadians on offence and 1 on defense.

We then tried to fit Henoc into the plan when he became available without trashing all the previous work done and we had a set figure we would be able to work with...and Henoc figures it isn't good enough...it's not like we didn't try hard enough...now if Jones had the decency to cut him loose prior to free agency knowing he was in cap trouble..or would be...then that would be a different story

I agree...but can anyone seriously fault Henoc for not wanting to accept 170k? Walters lowballed him that's for sure. Whether that was choice or by necessity...who knows...but that is not fair market value for Henoc Muamba and I don't blame him one bit for waiting and hoping we would come back with a realistic number. Either way, it appears our interest in Muamba was only in the event he became desperate.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 21, 2018, 05:52:27 PM
How much were the incentives? Could be that we couldn't commit 170 guaranteed but would be willing to exhaust all cap space this season normally earmarked for re-signing if he got us a cup?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 21, 2018, 05:54:03 PM
I'm all for throwing out kudos. As long as the team chemistry we didn't sacrifice ends up in the Grey Cup victory we must get.

Hey, I respect Walters for drawing a line in the sand and then not crossing it. I have to question whether that line in the sand was placed correctly though.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 21, 2018, 06:08:21 PM
What is market value tho...it's different in everyone's eyes if you ask me...I don't see a herd of teams beating down his door to pay him "market value" and one team just punted him for said "market vale"

170k is pretty good money considering...and who knows what the incentives were...they could have totaled more than 200k+ and if he wasn't willing to put in the effort to earn it...or if he doubted he could get to the bonuses then 170k was more than enough if u ask me


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 21, 2018, 06:24:49 PM
What is market value tho...it's different in everyone's eyes if you ask me...I don't see a herd of teams beating down his door to pay him "market value" and one team just punted him for said "market vale"

170k is pretty good money considering...and who knows what the incentives were...they could have totaled more than 200k+ and if he wasn't willing to put in the effort to earn it...or if he doubted he could get to the bonuses then 170k was more than enough if u ask me

We know what high level NAT ratio breakers are generally paid and it's not 170k, unless you are getting a home town discount like we did with Harris the past couple of years.  What incentives? I have seen no mention of incentives in any reports?

Edit:

Looked back at Hamilton's post and it does mention + incentives. In that case, I retract. Seems we probably did offer him fair market value if he reached his incentives. Unfortunate, that it seems he wants it all iron clad.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 21, 2018, 06:41:24 PM
Flanders was our # 4 import receiver & 2 RB on the roster last year. All the other import receivers were subs when Adams and Dressler were injured. We only had 1 Canadian receiver last year.

The ratio allowed us to keep him on the 44 AR.

This year ratio is dictating we use 2 Canadian receivers so that makes it much more difficult on getting Flanders on the 44 AR. Even if he does get on as a DI, it means one of Adams, Dressler or Bowman is coming off a given play or series.

That's a much different situation than it was in 2017. Can it happen? Maybe.

Like I said, who or which positions will we see as DI's. We can't get all of the imports we may want on the roster. Medlock is automatic. A DB and a LB are our norm. So choose between the extra DT, DE or RB/receiver.

Roh alternating with Jeffcoat or Oka is easier to do and less disruptive than Flanders replacing a top receiver for example.

Sure Corney will get some reps but IMO Roh or another DE makes the roster as a DL and gets significantly more rotation with the imports.

I'm more than happy if we find a practical way to get Flanders on the AR but I can easily see why they might take a different approach.

Are we still under the misconception that Roh is a Nat?  Or am I reading this wrong?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 21, 2018, 06:58:55 PM
Are we still under the misconception that Roh is a Nat?  Or am I reading this wrong?

You're reading it wrong. I expect Roh or another import DL to be a DI. We can't have just Corney in the rotation at DE. Those are the fast rushers that will need more rotation during games. Inside at DT we'll see Ekakitie get about 30% of rotations??


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 21, 2018, 07:16:59 PM
I fail to see why we couldn't have offered HM fair value , especially when we lost a high level NAT in Westerman. for $30,000 we could have maintained our starting NAT talent level


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bluengold204 on March 21, 2018, 07:36:49 PM
I fail to see why we couldn't have offered HM fair value , especially when we lost a high level NAT in Westerman. for $30,000 we could have maintained our starting NAT talent level

Yeah I don't get what walters is doing either.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Tehedra on March 21, 2018, 07:43:15 PM
I agree with Walters approach and I guess we will see what happens in the regular season to understand if it was the correct move or not.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 21, 2018, 08:01:14 PM
Okay, a couple of things need saying...

1.  $170k was a bona fide good faith offer based on our salary cap reality.  No qualms with Walters offering this nor with him sticking to it.

2.  $190-$200k is fair value for Henoc, we just can't pay it.  He is every bit as valuable as Harris, Laurent or Westerman, and if he had been available on the first day of free agency, he probably would have got it.  Not sure how it plays out for him, but I don't blame him for taking the discount offer yet.

3.  People who are gnashing their teeth over our linebacker play are over-reacting.  We will be fine with Wild, JSK and a DI linebacker to cover off the spot.  Our main weakness last year was our secondary breakdowns when Leggett was out of the line up.  That is being addressed.  We will be okay.  You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you get what you need.....

4.  While it is true that not having an additional defensive starter is likely to limit our use of Flanders (or even knock him off the active roster) people are making a lot of fuss about a guy with 250 rushing yards and 200 receiving yards.  I like the kid fine, but he's a role player, not an all-star. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 21, 2018, 08:09:26 PM
Okay, a couple of things need saying...

1.  $170k was a bona fide good faith offer based on our salary cap reality.  No qualms with Walters offering this nor with him sticking to it.

2.  $190-$200k is fair value for Henoc, we just can't pay it.  He is every bit as valuable as Harris, Laurent or Westerman, and if he had been available on the first day of free agency, he probably would have got it.  Not sure how it plays out for him, but I don't blame him for taking the discount offer yet.

3.  People who are gnashing their teeth over our linebacker play are over-reacting.  We will be fine with Wild, JSK and a DI linebacker to cover off the spot.  Our main weakness last year was our secondary breakdowns when Leggett was out of the line up.  That is being addressed.  We will be okay.  You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you get what you need.....

4.  While it is true that not having an additional defensive starter is likely to limit our use of Flanders (or even knock him off the active roster) people are making a lot of fuss about a guy with 250 rushing yards and 200 receiving yards.  I like the kid fine, but he's a role player, not an all-star. 

We don't know we'll be fine with JSK and Wild. Now we just hope we're fine. The MLB is usually the captain of the defense calling out plays and signals to the rest of the defense.

As good as Harris is on offense the captain on offense is the QB followed by the center calling out blocking schemes. The deep receiver that stretches the defense would be next IMO.   Most teams don't have a Canadian RB or MLB so that skews valuations. Either could be replaced by as good as or better import in theory.

Flanders is a role player but the downside of a Canadian RB is you probably need an import as the back up. Not only that it made the defenses less able to key of Harris whether Flanders actually got the ball or not.

Not having Flanders may well reduce Harris's effectivity.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: the paw on March 21, 2018, 08:33:58 PM


Flanders is a role player but the downside of a Canadian RB is you probably need an import as the back up. Not only that it made the defenses less able to key of Harris whether Flanders actually got the ball or not.

Not having Flanders may well reduce Harris's effectivity.

I think Lafrance is fine to spell Harris or carry the load if he goes down during a game. If the injury to Harris is longer than one game, then you absolutely need a guy like Flanders ready to come on to the roster.  But when Harris is healthy, I think Flander's contributions are covered off by Lafrance and Demski.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 21, 2018, 08:52:13 PM
I think Lafrance is fine to spell Harris or carry the load if he goes down during a game. If the injury to Harris is longer than one game, then you absolutely need a guy like Flanders ready to come on to the roster.  But when Harris is healthy, I think Flander's contributions are covered off by Lafrance and Demski.

Flanders and La France had pretty similar touches and ultimate results in 2017. Flanders played 10 games and La France played 13. Neither were Harris so here's hoping he doesn't have any serious injury in 2018. He's pretty durable.

Not sure if either would be a longer term injury replacement as a result. La France has a bit of an edge as a Canadian and we'll have import RB's pushing Flanders in TC.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on March 21, 2018, 08:56:16 PM
Walters is cheap. We need a stud MLB for this team.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 21, 2018, 09:28:55 PM
Walters is cheap. We need a stud MLB for this team.

I don't know that he's cheap. Every team spends the SMS a bit differently. Trying to balance the expensive players with the ELC players is not easy. You can't even always get the expensive players you want if players choose to go elsewhere. That can be for money or other reasons.

Actually finding the exceptional rookies is the magic element in the constantly changing CFL rosters that helps the equation.

We haven't had as much success with that and have leaned towards CFL free agents. More so with so many 1 year contracts for vets.

I suspect our " plan " was to re-sign Westerman. Who could predict the Als offering such a high salary? Once that didn't happen Plan B was Muamba.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 21, 2018, 10:37:31 PM
The minute we lost Westerman, you'd think it would have made signing HM more important as our starting NAT talent level took a hit and we didn't replace it. We could have 'found' $30k and maintained our NAT starting talent level, I just don't get this at all. You NEVER have enough quality NAT starters.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 21, 2018, 10:56:32 PM
The minute we lost Westerman, you'd think it would have made signing HM more important as our starting NAT talent level took a hit and we didn't replace it. We could have 'found' $30k and maintained our NAT starting talent level, I just don't get this at all. You NEVER have enough quality NAT starters.
It appears the majority of Westerman?s salary went to Demski. Personally I would have preferred Henoc over Demski.  But at the time, signing Demski made sense. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 21, 2018, 11:07:59 PM
if that's the case, its money poorly spent. HM would contribute far, far more than the support/ bit role Demski will play on our offense. A starting MLB is much, much more of a NEED than a #4 receiver.

 I would have preferred we went with Coates or JFG vs Demski if that meant landing HM at MLB. If Demski gets injured, will we even miss him on offense?? If JSK or Wild gets injured, we're in trouble on D, signing HM would solve our MLB problem and give us depth at LB, as guaranteed Wild gets hurt this year.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 21, 2018, 11:12:58 PM
if that's the case, its money poorly spent. HM would contribute far, far more than the support/ bit role Demski will play on our offense. A starting MLB is much, much more of a NEED than a #4 receiver.

 I would have preferred we went with Coates or JFG vs Demski if that meant landing HM at MLB. If Demski gets injured, will we even miss him on offense?? If JSK or Wild gets injured, we're in trouble on D, signing HM would solve our MLB problem and give us depth at LB, as guaranteed Wild gets hurt this year.
Thing is Walters didn?t know Muamba was available when he signed Demski, and Walterszneeded to address the ratio with another Canadian starter. Hindsight is always 20/20.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 21, 2018, 11:16:17 PM
It appears the majority of Westerman?s salary went to Demski. Personally I would have preferred Henoc over Demski.  But at the time, signing Demski made sense. 

Primarily because Muamba was under contract, and had already been paid a roster bonus this year, no reason at all to think he was being released...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 21, 2018, 11:27:05 PM
if that's the case, its money poorly spent. HM would contribute far, far more than the support/ bit role Demski will play on our offense. A starting MLB is much, much more of a NEED than a #4 receiver.

 I would have preferred we went with Coates or JFG vs Demski if that meant landing HM at MLB. If Demski gets injured, will we even miss him on offense?? If JSK or Wild gets injured, we're in trouble on D, signing HM would solve our MLB problem and give us depth at LB, as guaranteed Wild gets hurt this year.

Pretty sure for the coin they paid Demski that they are expecting a lot more than a bit role...  he won't get the touches Harris does, but he will get his share.

Walters is cheap. We need a stud MLB for this team.

Its not a matter of being cheap, its a matter of needing to have 46 players, plus a PR, plus injured players, all under a SMS cap.  The more top end players you sign, the more guys you can't pay more than min wage. 



And again, it comes back to not just paying him an extra $30K by cutting elsewhere, the issue is making him the highest paid Nat player on a team that has the defending Most Outstanding Canadian on it.  And for those that question the value of a RB over an MLB, how many touches did Harris have last year?  Other than Goossen and Nichols, he had the most.  294.  Involved in 3 times as many plays as HM...

O'Shea is a pretty good judge of what it takes to be a MLB, and it sounds like he's comfortable with the guys we have on the roster being able to do the job... 



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 21, 2018, 11:32:07 PM
Primarily because Muamba was under contract, and had already been paid a roster bonus this year, no reason at all to think he was being released...
Yes that?s exactly my point. I thought that was clear in post 946.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 21, 2018, 11:35:09 PM
Yes that?s exactly my point. I thought that was clear in post 946.

I was quoting 944... whereupon it was not clearly stated.  My apologies...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 22, 2018, 12:11:45 AM
I think it?s time to stop beating this horse.....it?s done....over....dead!!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: ModAdmin on March 22, 2018, 01:17:30 AM
Except that....he is still out there....unsigned.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 22, 2018, 02:08:42 AM
We offered $170k plus incentives plus post season potential.  Montreal offered more.  HM has not signed yet...  is he waiting for Montreal to up the ante to the point where he can tolerate playing in a dumpster fire?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on March 22, 2018, 02:45:38 AM
Demski is over paid at 150K. I can see him at 120K.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 22, 2018, 02:49:22 AM
Yes he most certainly is. Exactly how many touches did he have last year??? Ah 19, that's almost $8 per catch !! Yes he only played in 7 games but prorating it to an 18 game season that's a whopping 49 catches for $150,000, expensive indeed

By those metrics, Harris should be paid $900,000!!!!


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bunker on March 22, 2018, 03:06:03 AM
Demski is over paid at 150K. I can see him at 120K.
That's what it took to sign him at the time.

What would the reaction be if Muamba stayed a rider (which is the scenario Walters was dealing with at the time), and we lost Demski, and had no plan for where our extra Nat was going to come from?

I agree you could argue his salary is high, especially given durability issues, but that likely reflects market value at the time, since, based on past signings, I doubt Walters would pay more than he had to to lock him up. I'm willing to give Walters the benefit of the doubt on this one until we see what kind of season Demski has.



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 22, 2018, 12:40:45 PM
It appears the majority of Westerman?s salary went to Demski. Personally I would have preferred Henoc over Demski.  But at the time, signing Demski made sense. 

IIRC, wasn't there still $200K earmarked for Westerman even after Demski signed earlier that day?

We offered $170k plus incentives plus post season potential.  Montreal offered more.  HM has not signed yet...  is he waiting for Montreal to up the ante to the point where he can tolerate playing in a dumpster fire?

Just a weird situation, IMO. I wonder if Reed is now reconsidering his offer based on what happened here.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bunker on March 22, 2018, 12:45:52 PM
We offered $170k plus incentives plus post season potential.  Montreal offered more.  HM has not signed yet...  is he waiting for Montreal to up the ante to the point where he can tolerate playing in a dumpster fire?
Is it possible BC is in play also? They were rumoured to be one of the teams intetested and may have more SMS money now that Cumming' contract has been voided.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blueraid on March 22, 2018, 01:45:48 PM
Except that....he is still out there....unsigned.

AND waiting for an 'opportunity'....something I alluded to earlier that was rumoured in Mont. AND seems to be the case


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 22, 2018, 02:08:51 PM
Is it possible BC is in play also? They were rumoured to be one of the teams intetested and may have more SMS money now that Cumming' contract has been voided.
The BC rumour makes no sense, they have Solly out there and no way are they going to tie up big dough in signing 2 MLB and turn around and have 1 play WILL. You sign someone for big dough, he s got to have big impact on the game. It's either here or Montreal


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: booch on March 22, 2018, 02:20:26 PM
Yeah I doubt BC is or ever was really in the mix...and the fact he hasn't signed yet in Montreal is a bit odd...are the offers relatively close in $$ figures and now all bargaining is lost seeing the Bombers drew their line in the sand?

Also waiting it out for a team needing a guy due to injury or whatever is a risky venture...if nobody has a need he will go a good portion of the year..if not all of it unemployed. And even if later in the year a team needs him..a lot of sms may be used up..and again he has no bargaining power really for a short term rental and may be forced into a take it or leave it scenario...

His smartest move would be to take our offer...work his butt off to hit his incentives...grab a lil play-off money and use a successful season as his bargaining power for 2019 and beyond when teams are starting from scratch with off-season SMS issues


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Jesse on March 22, 2018, 02:40:29 PM
He may also be taking the position that if teams don't offer him what he wants to play, he simply wont.

I think we're at a time where players are weighing the cost vs. benefits to their health. If no teams meets his value for risking his health, he may not play for anyone. Or, again, wait to see if a team gets an injury and desperately meets his demands later in the season.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 22, 2018, 02:47:11 PM
He may also be taking the position that if teams don't offer him what he wants to play, he simply wont.

I think we're at a time where players are weighing the cost vs. benefits to their health. If no teams meets his value for risking his health, he may not play for anyone. Or, again, wait to see if a team gets an injury and desperately meets his demands later in the season.

Makes me wonder what his other options are at this point. $170K or more plus incentives/potential playoff money isn't exactly chump change and while I get the health risk involved with contact sports, that'd be basically guaranteed income for a player in his class.

How he's going about this seems a bit reckless, IMO. Unless he's got something to fall back on outside of football...?


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Jesse on March 22, 2018, 02:56:58 PM
Makes me wonder what his other options are at this point. $170K or more plus incentives/potential playoff money isn't exactly chump change and while I get the health risk involved with contact sports, that'd be basically guaranteed income for a player in his class.

How he's going about this seems a bit reckless, IMO. Unless he's got something to fall back on outside of football...?

No matter what, eventually he has to get a job. I'm sure he has ideas in mind.

This is all just conjecture on my part, but he's a human being, he doesn't have to play football this season.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: TBURGESS on March 22, 2018, 03:31:55 PM
Walters... "He wants more than Harris." Also Walters, but not in the same sound bite... We offered him 20-30K less than the 190-200K that Harris is making. Fans are outraged because they just focus on the 'He wants more than Harris' part which has nothing at all to do with the offer itself.

Personally, I'd love to get Muamba at $170K but it obviously isn't a number that will get him to sign.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: bunker on March 22, 2018, 03:37:40 PM
The BC rumour makes no sense, they have Solly out there and no way are they going to tie up big dough in signing 2 MLB and turn around and have 1 play WILL. You sign someone for big dough, he s got to have big impact on the game. It's either here or Montreal
I agree its less likely than Montreal, but BC has done it before with Bighill and Solly. They've also experimented with a 3 4 defence.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 22, 2018, 03:56:35 PM
Makes me wonder what his other options are at this point. $170K or more plus incentives/potential playoff money isn't exactly chump change and while I get the health risk involved with contact sports, that'd be basically guaranteed income for a player in his class.

How he's going about this seems a bit reckless, IMO. Unless he's got something to fall back on outside of football...?

It's actually 3 times what a large number of CFL players make...  players risking health and having expenses just like him... players with family and even kids... and are happy to have a good paying job at $56k / yr. 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blueraid on March 22, 2018, 04:02:42 PM
[quote author=booch link=topic=50021.msg142

His smartest move would be to take our offer...work his butt off to hit his incentives...grab a lil play-off money and use a successful season as his bargaining power for 2019 and beyond when teams are starting from scratch with off-season SMS issues
[/quote]


That would be the most intelligent move, although I'm wondering if Muamba's ego would allow him to do just that....IF he takes the Als. offer, I'll predict that we'll see the downer look on Henoc's face in shoft order, when the losing sets in...something like the pouting at the end of the bench he did, the last time around in Mont.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 22, 2018, 05:31:06 PM
The longer this plays out, and it's played out enough, and Walters recent presser, convinced me the BB have moved on. I just don't see HM fitting into the team first mentality that MOS has worked hard to instill...we are a lunch bucket, hard working, blue collar team that fights to the bitter end...primadonas need not apply.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: GCn17 on March 22, 2018, 06:08:20 PM
It's actually 3 times what a large number of CFL players make...  players risking health and having expenses just like him... players with family and even kids... and are happy to have a good paying job at $56k / yr. 

Ok Karl Marx. It's like saying that it's not fair that a Ferrari dealer should be happy to get less than fair market value because a Chrysler Intrepid costs a lot less. The argument makes no sense.

What would you say to someone who came into your store and said you should be happy to get a 1/2 of what you are charging for a product because Puppy Chow is only $8 a bag.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 22, 2018, 07:47:34 PM
Ok Karl Marx. It's like saying that it's not fair that a Ferrari dealer should be happy to get less than fair market value because a Chrysler Intrepid costs a lot less. The argument makes no sense.

What would you say to someone who came into your store and said you should be happy to get a 1/2 of what you are charging for a product because Puppy Chow is only $8 a bag.

I never said that he should get "less than market value", I'm just saying that market value is $170k from the Blue Bombers, and that it is pretty good money.  And he's not going to get 1/2 market value because others are getting $56k...  he wants more than market value, otherwise the market would have paid him by now.  My mention of $56k was for reference, for all those saying that no amount of money is worth risking your health, well, yes there is an amount, and each player decides on that.  And, in the CFL, therre are a large number who think $56KCAN is worth playing for.  And in hte US, players play college ball for free (OK, a free ride in the US can be worth a lot), and semi pro ball for almost free, and Arena/USFL/XFL for peanuts... 

The definition of "market value" is what someone is willing to pay...  and no one is forced to buy my products at my price if they want to buy Puppy Chow at $8/bag...  it is up to me to figure out what the market price is, and find a product I can sell for that price.  And if I find a product I can sell for less than the market price, I'll sell a lot more of it. 

If he wants to hold out and hope that the market increases, that's his prerogative.  No way Walters ups his offer, and I don't think Montreal has room to increase theirs, no matter how much they might want to.   Now, if he wants to avoid 2 a days and the rigors of TC, and wait for a team to identify a need for his services, that's an option too.  But if our LB's prove out, and Mtl lands a starting Nat in the draft (They have picks 1, 19, 23, 27 and 31...), HM might find demand for his services become a buyers market. 

And if he decides he'd rather not play than make only $170k+, his agent gets squadoosh, and that would be sweeeet. 



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: BBRT on March 22, 2018, 08:16:25 PM
I never said that he should get "less than market value", I'm just saying that market value is $170k from the Blue Bombers, and that it is pretty good money.  And he's not going to get 1/2 market value because others are getting $56k...  he wants more than market value, otherwise the market would have paid him by now.  My mention of $56k was for reference, for all those saying that no amount of money is worth risking your health, well, yes there is an amount, and each player decides on that.  And, in the CFL, therre are a large number who think $56KCAN is worth playing for.  And in hte US, players play college ball for free (OK, a free ride in the US can be worth a lot), and semi pro ball for almost free, and Arena/USFL/XFL for peanuts... 

The definition of "market value" is what someone is willing to pay...  and no one is forced to buy my products at my price if they want to buy Puppy Chow at $8/bag...  it is up to me to figure out what the market price is, and find a product I can sell for that price.  And if I find a product I can sell for less than the market price, I'll sell a lot more of it. 

If he wants to hold out and hope that the market increases, that's his prerogative.  No way Walters ups his offer, and I don't think Montreal has room to increase theirs, no matter how much they might want to.   Now, if he wants to avoid 2 a days and the rigors of TC, and wait for a team to identify a need for his services, that's an option too.  But if our LB's prove out, and Mtl lands a starting Nat in the draft (They have picks 1, 19, 23, 27 and 31...), HM might find demand for his services become a buyers market. 

And if he decides he'd rather not play than make only $170k+, his agent gets squadoosh, and that would be sweeeet. 


I think your definition of market value is a little skewed some what - Market value is really The highest estimated price that a buyer would pay and a seller would accept for an item in an open and competitive market. You seem to imply that it is the Bombers who determine market value - and that is incorrect. It may be that the Bomber's "Market Value for him is $175K" however that does not mean that this is his "market value" only from a Bomber perspective.

Anything you are saying regarding what Montreal has available in terms of offerings is just wishful thinking.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: wpg#1 on March 22, 2018, 11:48:43 PM
The market value for HM in 2018, is the best price he can get. It would seem to be that the best price he can get is the Blue Bomber offer, because we?re really not seeing any other offer from another team, or he?d certainly take it.
So, the market value for him is the Blue Bomber offer.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: dd on March 23, 2018, 12:31:45 AM
HM is waiting for an offer that may not come. He's thinking money bags Montreal gave Westerman what he wanted so he's lined up for what he wants. Looks like it ain't coming, which hopefully means he ends up signing here after all


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Lincoln Locomotive on March 23, 2018, 04:56:09 AM
HM is waiting for an offer that may not come. He's thinking money bags Montreal gave Westerman what he wanted so he's lined up for what he wants. Looks like it ain't coming, which hopefully means he ends up signing here after all
well, I had all but given up after the Walter presser....but I have yet to hear the callorically challenged lady sing either.... :-\


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: 123James321 on March 23, 2018, 12:02:35 PM
There's so much bitterness in this thread. Just because HM is trying to get what he can doesn't make him a bad greedy person. I'd like to see HM in B&G but only at a cost that Walter's is comfortable with. I trust Walters knows whats best for the team and I refuse to let speculation or resentment from other ppl taint my view of the guy. If he wants to be here then great, if he doesn't I certainly won't hate him for it....


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 23, 2018, 01:22:22 PM
https://www.bluebombers.com/2018/03/20/henoc-will-not-coming-gm-kyle-walters/

"You can get a pretty quick read on these things, truth be told, of when guys want to come here and when they don?t. We just went through the Adarius Bowman one? he wanted to come to Winnipeg. You guys talked to Adarius and figured out why. It was evident he wanted to come here and as soon as we sat down and figured out how to make it work within the cap, it was done. It was done that quick."

"We're now planning mini-camp," said Walters. "The follow-up to (the Muamba situation) is there had to be some sort of closure on this. The scouting department is going "Are we signing (Muamba)? Are we looking at American linebackers? Are we not? We have mini-camp coming up? do we get the neg list linebackers? What are we doing?"

"So there had to be some sort of forward movement on that front so that we could start planning with mini-camp a month away. We need to start getting that competition set for mini-camp up here, which will be receivers, DBs, linebackers and running backs. We're bringing up more bodies and all those guys you see at mini-camp will be fighting for training camp roster spots."


Looks pretty clear that that ship has sailed.  Again, Muamba has made his bed...  or at least he and his agent have done it together.  It doesn't take weeks to play two opponents off against each other,  strike while the iron is hot.  Now, Reed is going to be able to offer him $170k (or less) unopposed...


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Blue In BC on March 23, 2018, 01:34:41 PM
well, I had all but given up after the Walter presser....but I have yet to hear the callorically challenged lady sing either.... :-\

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIVfbylUU-M


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on March 23, 2018, 01:36:44 PM
At 6-4, 310 I hope Spooner gets some playing time this year.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 23, 2018, 02:08:04 PM
https://www.bluebombers.com/2018/03/20/henoc-will-not-coming-gm-kyle-walters/

"You can get a pretty quick read on these things, truth be told, of when guys want to come here and when they don?t. We just went through the Adarius Bowman one? he wanted to come to Winnipeg. You guys talked to Adarius and figured out why. It was evident he wanted to come here and as soon as we sat down and figured out how to make it work within the cap, it was done. It was done that quick."

?We?re now planning mini-camp,? said Walters. ?The follow-up to (the Muamba situation) is there had to be some sort of closure on this. The scouting department is going ?Are we signing (Muamba)? Are we looking at American linebackers? Are we not? We have mini-camp coming up? do we get the neg list linebackers? What are we doing??

?So there had to be some sort of forward movement on that front so that we could start planning with mini-camp a month away. We need to start getting that competition set for mini-camp up here, which will be receivers, DBs, linebackers and running backs. We?re bringing up more bodies and all those guys you see at mini-camp will be fighting for training camp roster spots.?

It's definitely true that Muamba becoming available after FA day and the need for GMs to be able to plan their rosters and balance their SMS makes signing a player who's willing to sit on a decision indefinitely, precarious.

Still disappointed that we aren't getting him but I don't fault Walters for the situation he was put in. If Henoc wants to hold out until someone wants to pay him what he thinks he's worth, fine, but don't expect other teams to wait around forever and plan their rosters around you.

It's time to move on and start thinking about who's actually going to be playing for our team in 2018 and how they're going to slot in.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 23, 2018, 02:31:07 PM
well, I had all but given up after the Walter presser....but I have yet to hear the callorically challenged lady sing either.... :-\
This is like the hot chick who rejected you, but you still think there's a chance because she's still single  ;D 


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: theaardvark on March 23, 2018, 02:42:47 PM

well, I had all but given up after the Walter presser....but I have yet to hear the callorically challenged lady sing either.... :-\

This is like the hot chick who rejected you, but you still think there's a chance because she's still single  ;D 

(https://thecentraldefender.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/cg_tpq.jpg)



Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_gold_84 on March 23, 2018, 03:45:34 PM
This is like the hot chick who rejected you, but you still think there's a chance because she's still single  ;D 

True. But it's a bit odd he hasn't signed in Montreal yet.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: Pigskin on March 23, 2018, 05:44:51 PM
His heart is in Winnipeg, his cheque book is in Montreal.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 23, 2018, 05:45:39 PM
True. But it's a bit odd he hasn't signed in Montreal yet.

Yeah well it's a bit odd that Jennifer hasn't gotten asked out by Craig after she told me I "wasn't right for her at this point in her life", but here we are  >:(


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 23, 2018, 05:57:38 PM
Yeah well it's a bit odd that Jennifer hasn't gotten asked out by Craig after she told me I "wasn't right for her at this point in her life", but here we are  >:(
Who are Craig and Jennifer  ???


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: blue_or_die on March 23, 2018, 06:14:38 PM
Never change, gbill.


Title: Re: Walters interested in Muamba
Post by: gbill2004 on March 23, 2018, 06:26:22 PM
Never change, gbill.
Is that from the Bachelor or something?