It's early but what player would we most likely try to attract from another team if he reaches free agency?
AJ Allen
Any of the top-10 OL, but I'd take Yoshi back from the Riders, Revenburg out of Hamilton, or Boxton out of BC. Grab another interior DL (Mauldin IV?) and maybe a run at Katsantonis as safety. Lots of decent WRs up for grabs as well - flip on of them Mitchell's money.
Our FA signings have got to focus on our weaknesses, namely offensive and defensive line, and a top knotch WR would be nice as well.
Quote from: dd on December 06, 2025, 08:43:51 PMOur FA signings have got to focus on our weaknesses, namely offensive and defensive line, and a top knotch WR would be nice as well.
I fully agree. I don't follow other teams' OL closely so I can't name names, but just go out and get top OL. C and LG and RT. And I don't care if we go more IMP. The key is we need week 1 superstars -- no time to dev or hope & pray.
To heck with the dev pipeline. If we want to dev guys, they will do it on the PR and jumbo, NOT in starting spots. To heck with being economical. Spend whatever it costs, put 1/3rd in MMM and go over SMS up to $150k.
And I want just one top-3 DT. If we have our D and add just a Stove-like guy, our D will instantly be better.
Might have been nice if Walter's didn't waste a bunch of money keeping borderline talent on the one game, failed to use the 6 game for guys out more than 6 games, and had more 2025 money to work with. I don't know what he was doing this season.
Might also be nice if Zac looked over at Harris as an example of being a team player when it comes to salary rather than grinding for every last dollar. We always talk about "culture" with O'Shea, but I'm beginning to question that when the stars like Zac and Brady care only about money, and not being able to build a better team. I can understand it from their perspective, careers are short, but would be nice if they took a page out of Harris' book.
Quote from: bunker on December 07, 2025, 01:27:11 PMMight have been nice if Walter's didn't waste a bunch of money keeping borderline talent on the one game, failed to use the 6 game for guys out more than 6 games, and had more 2025 money to work with. I don't know what he was doing this season.
Might also be nice if Zac looked over at Harris as an example of being a team player when it comes to salary rather than grinding for every last dollar. We always talk about "culture" with O'Shea, but I'm beginning to question that when the stars like Zac and Brady care only about money, and not being able to build a better team. I can understand it from their perspective, careers are short, but would be nice if they took a page out of Harris' book.
There was more of an issue in retaining some vets that we should have on from. The 1 game IR was one way to use some of the new SMS but overall it was not used to retain decent talent IMO.
Quote from: Blue In BC on December 07, 2025, 02:32:28 PMThere was more of an issue in retaining some vets that we should have on from. The 1 game IR was one way to use some of the new SMS but overall it was not used to retain decent talent IMO.
Using the 1 game IR as they did allowed them to keep players like Vanterpool off the PR with a little more cash in his jeans, assuring him he has a future with the team. Did not work well for Mitchell, not sure what message they were trying to convey to him.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 07, 2025, 03:42:26 PMUsing the 1 game IR as they did allowed them to keep players like Vanterpool off the PR with a little more cash in his jeans, assuring him he has a future with the team. Did not work well for Mitchell, not sure what message they were trying to convey to him.
There were some pros in our use of the 1 game IR. Overall it wasn't very effective IMO. We choose poorly in some of our free agent acquisitions and rode that into the ground.
I'd add Echols and Logon as questionable choices at the end of the season. I would have bumped them back to the PR. I see no future for either in 2026.
Vanterpool might make the AR in 2026 but we've signed a number of import OL earlier than normal. That may be an indication of change. I wouldn't say he's a lock. Lofton is a potential free agent and he's probably not back either.
I'd go further and suggest we may see an entirely new group of imports taking spots across the roster.
Quote from: Blue In BC on December 07, 2025, 04:32:48 PMThere were some pros in our use of the 1 game IR. Overall it wasn't very effective IMO. We choose poorly in some of our free agent acquisitions and rode that into the ground.
I'd add Echols and Logon as questionable choices at the end of the season. I would have bumped them back to the PR. I see no future for either in 2026.
Vanterpool might make the AR in 2026 but we've signed a number of import OL earlier than normal. That may be an indication of change. I wouldn't say he's a lock. Lofton is a potential free agent and he's probably not back either.
I'd go further and suggest we may see an entirely new group of imports taking spots across the roster.
Pretty unlikely, if you're talking about the O-line, name the last rookie O-lineman they started? Might have to stretch back as far as Suhk Chungh. There's nothing inherently fair about their vetting process, but they've stuck to it for almost a decade, so I don't expect a radical deviation as long as MOS is the HC.
Quote from: bunker on December 07, 2025, 01:27:11 PMMight have been nice if Walter's didn't waste a bunch of money keeping borderline talent on the one game, failed to use the 6 game for guys out more than 6 games, and had more 2025 money to work with. I don't know what he was doing this season.
I'm still convinced KW has a bucket load of '25 money to work with. He hinted at being close to the cap, but he didn't outright say we were there or over (yet). I'm pretty sure he has the full $400k sitting there unspent.
Maybe he doesn't want to scream out loud how much money WFC has right now because then it hampers his player negotiations.
Quote from: bunker on December 07, 2025, 01:27:11 PMMight also be nice if Zac looked over at Harris as an example of being a team player when it comes to salary rather than grinding for every last dollar.
I agree. Except up until Nov '25 Trevor was known as the QB who was always going to fold under pressure. Remember, hit him once and you'll get Bad Trevor the rest of the game? That was a real thing. Well, it still is, except he now has an OL and scheme that means he almost never gets hit! Zach went to 5 GCs and won 2. So ya, if Zach says he's worth $150k more than Trevor, up until the end of '25, he was correct!!
I think what's more important is what it signals to all the other players (and potential players) when a superstar like Willie J or Biggie accept renegotiations and lower pay. The mental / team-first / "I believe in this team" aspect is more important than actual $$. As such Zach and Brady should be accepting "stay with WPG" discounts, even if they are small, and making the fact well known.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 08, 2025, 01:29:28 AMPretty unlikely, if you're talking about the O-line, name the last rookie O-lineman they started? Might have to stretch back as far as Suhk Chungh.
Gray & Desjar started in their first year. And didn't Goosen and/or Couture too? We got mega spoiled by every 1 or 2 OL DPs having one who could start in year 1. And lots of those guys turned into superstars who bailed in their first FA for $200k+.
That hasn't happened since Desjar. Our OL DPs have been pretty mediocre. Probably because our DP slot has been so bad because of making it to the cup every year since '19. Maybe we can have better OL draft luck and a week 1-ready OL in draft'26 because now we get to pick in the lower number picks for once. I'm pretty sure we are ranked worst of all the playoff teams? So we pick 4th?
As for IMPs, I'm implying we need to steal top ones from other teams that are week-1 ready -- not play the scout-IMP-OL game that has NEVER paid off for us. In 10 years, our only good IMP OL were defectors from other teams: Stan, Yoshi, Lofton, Bonds. I won't include Rand/Vant as they aren't "good" (yet?).
Maybe there are good IMPs in FA that have been trying to play OT but aren't good enough, yet would be monster unstoppable at OG. Pick one of them up. As for OT, gonna have to pay up for the next Big Stan/Yoshi at RT. (Worry about replacing Big Stan at LT in FA27.)
C is a bit of a conundrum. If we can't steal a top FA, then I say do the unheard of thing of scouting the best IMP C we can, someone who is week 1 ready and was just one hair shy away of starting in the NFL. There must be gobs of these guys around without a job because the CFL *never* hires IMP C's -- so what are these guys going to do??
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 08, 2025, 01:29:28 AMPretty unlikely, if you're talking about the O-line, name the last rookie O-lineman they started? Might have to stretch back as far as Suhk Chungh. There's nothing inherently fair about their vetting process, but they've stuck to it for almost a decade, so I don't expect a radical deviation as long as MOS is the HC.
Vanterpool is not a rookie and we just signed another OL that has spent time on various PR's for example. We could sign a player in free agency as another example.
Lofton might not be totally out of the picture although I don't expect him to return.
The title of this thread is Free Agent Acquisition.
OTOH, our OL was not good enough last year. Why would I expect them all to return?
Maybe we make a pitch for Hardrick and move Randolph to LT.
Quote from: dd on December 06, 2025, 08:43:51 PMOur FA signings have got to focus on our weaknesses, namely offensive and defensive line, and a top notch WR would be nice as well.
Improving the trenches should be Walters' top priority, IMO.
Quote from: Tecno on December 08, 2025, 09:38:04 AMGray & Desjar started in their first year. And didn't Goosen and/or Couture too? We got mega spoiled by every 1 or 2 OL DPs having one who could start in year 1. And lots of those guys turned into superstars who bailed in their first FA for $200k+.
Some of those guys had starts in their first year or became starters half way through their first year, but only Chungh became a starter right out of the gate.
Gray was still messing around with the NFL in 2018 and only played one game that season and only 12 games in 2019 as an injury replacement for Neuf.
Desjarlais was a backup for his first 8 games before becoming the starter in 2019, Cody Speller was with the team in 2019 and started in that historic GC victory at Center.
Couture was drafted in 2016 but did not become the starting Center till 2019, he spent a lot of time doing the 6th man job Eli does now.
Can't find much info. on Goosen but pretty sure he became the starter in his second season 2015, the same year Chungh was drafted.
Gray seemed like a decent prospect but he seems to have disappeared a few years ago (2022?). Does anyone know what happened?
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on December 08, 2025, 05:34:09 PMGray seemed like a decent prospect but he seems to have disappeared a few years ago (2022?). Does anyone know what happened?
Retired.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on December 08, 2025, 05:34:09 PMGray seemed like a decent prospect but he seems to have disappeared a few years ago (2022?). Does anyone know what happened?
He's a professional engineer, probably doing ok.
Quote from: Blue In BC on December 08, 2025, 01:56:42 PMMaybe we make a pitch for Hardrick and move Randolph to LT.
Eeeewwww!! Are you serious? Rand sucked royal donkey nads at LT in the couple of games where he got to play it. It was shockingly horrific and reminded us all of why we need Big Stan.
If you want to replace Stan, you're going to need to do it like how we got Stan in the first place: snipe a huge $$ stud in FA. I say we do that in FA27. Stan will do for one more season.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 08, 2025, 05:30:34 PMSome of those guys had starts in their first year or became starters half way through their first year, but only Chungh became a starter right out of the gate.
Ok, so I'm right on Gray & Desjar. Gray's NFL-messing doesn't count against him for the purpose of this discussion. He was starting after not many games after he came back.
Jury's still out on The Goose.
The point still stands: guys who are first-full-year legit-starter-ready used to be a thing for us. But not in years, since Desjar. It's really hurt us because we came to expect gems like that every year or 2!
Quote from: Tecno on December 08, 2025, 09:51:57 PMOk, so I'm right on Gray & Desjar. Gray's NFL-messing doesn't count against him for the purpose of this discussion. He was starting after not many games after he came back.
Jury's still out on The Goose.
The point still stands: guys who are first-full-year legit-starter-ready used to be a thing for us. But not in years, since Desjar. It's really hurt us because we came to expect gems like that every year or 2!
Read again, Gray didn't start any games until his second season when he filled in for Neufeld. Once Neuf returned Gray was back on the 1 game IR or 6th man and didn't even dress for the playoffs in 2019. Whole point is Costello tries to educate and prep. his O-lineman before he throws them into the fire.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 08, 2025, 10:24:13 PMRead again, Gray didn't start any games until his second season when he filled in for Neufeld.
Right, but if he was messing with the NFL he didn't return until fall, and thus I am correct that the number of games he waited until actually being thrust into an every-down player in some games was less than a full season -- probably less than 10 games.
If you are starting within your first-18-games-with-the-team then I call that a rookie who is starting. I don't care if that spans 2 seasons because they were NFL-curious for 2/3rds of a season.
Quote from: Tecno on December 08, 2025, 09:48:50 PMEeeewwww!! Are you serious? Rand sucked royal donkey nads at LT in the couple of games where he got to play it. It was shockingly horrific and reminded us all of why we need Big Stan.
If you want to replace Stan, you're going to need to do it like how we got Stan in the first place: snipe a huge $$ stud in FA. I say we do that in FA27. Stan will do for one more season.
Do you want to judge a player after 2 game at a position? Noting he was also a rookie at RT and improved as the season advanced.
I don't specifically remember when Randolph played at LT but he's only played 24 games in total and is just coming into his own. He may get zero consideration at LT even as depth but nothing is outside of consideration at the moment. What happens with our current potential free agents and acquisitions during free agency is all TBD.
Bryant is probably back in 2026 but I wouldn't say it's guaranteed either. SMS is always a factor and who else might be available when free agency hits.
Hardrick and Stanley seem to maintain quite a strong connection.
Money and age are definitely huge considerations.
Gotta think they would love to play together again though.
https://3downnation.com/2025/12/08/saskatchewan-roughriders-ol-jermarcus-hardrick-wants-to-play-cfl-football-until-40/ (https://3downnation.com/2025/12/08/saskatchewan-roughriders-ol-jermarcus-hardrick-wants-to-play-cfl-football-until-40/)
So much for that thought...Hardrick re-signed in Sask.
Stealing a FA OT from another team is going to be expensive, but just might be worth it.
Looks like we are going the other way, though, with so many potential American OTs on the roster.
That one yard is such a difference maker, finding that guy that can make the change, who's game improves with that yard, is the key here.
I know, no one wants to hear the name again, but should we invest a spring guest coach salary on Bob Wylie, to assess the raw talent of these imports, and tweak some of these hoggies to the CFL game? He is literally the best there ever was at this.
Fun fact: Bob Wylie comes from wealth. Last time around we pretty much paid him in restaurant meals so cost is not the issue. Not sure he's the right fit this time around as I don't really think we have a coaching, scheme or technique issue along the offensive line. It's in age and talent issue.
Quote from: theaardvark on December 10, 2025, 05:31:56 PMStealing a FA OT from another team is going to be expensive, but just might be worth it.
Looks like we are going the other way, though, with so many potential American OTs on the roster.
That one yard is such a difference maker, finding that guy that can make the change, who's game improves with that yard, is the key here.
I know, no one wants to hear the name again, but should we invest a spring guest coach salary on Bob Wylie, to assess the raw talent of these imports, and tweak some of these hoggies to the CFL game? He is literally the best there ever was at this.
No we don't want a nearly 80 year old man evaluating our prospects. There's a point where everyone just needs to retire and that was before the last time we hired Wylie.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on December 10, 2025, 10:58:02 PMFun fact: Bob Wylie comes from wealth. Last time around we pretty much paid him in restaurant meals so cost is not the issue. Not sure he's the right fit this time around as I don't really think we have a coaching, scheme or technique issue along the offensive line. It's in age and talent issue.
Yeah, I believe he also got a really nice condo in those buildings at the corner of Pembina and Bison...
I'm not saying he needs to be on board for the season, just for camp, shaking out the recruits. Finding the rough diamond and polishing him into the gem we need. Giving the oline (and Oline coach) extra tools to succeed with.
Quote from: Jesse on December 10, 2025, 11:05:38 PMNo we don't want a nearly 80 year old man evaluating our prospects. There's a point where everyone just needs to retire and that was before the last time we hired Wylie.
Again, there is no one even close to being an oline wizard that Wylie has shown to be. His "Mushroom Academy"and "COOL clinic" testify to that. The following that he has among the hog community is legendary.
I can't see any downside in having him in camp.
We are so much better off investing serious $$ in the OL than whatever we paid for the 3 American LBs or the three receivers we signed to play one position (Mitchell, Sterns and White). It's time for this team to get serious about the OL, embrace being a running team and fix up the defensive scheme so some sort of pass rush exists.
Quote from: kkc60 on December 12, 2025, 01:00:09 AMWe are so much better off investing serious $$ in the OL than whatever we paid for the 3 American LBs
Fully agree. We used to understand this. Mafia spent so long building a top tier OL. But since Desjar left it's all been downhill. I think we still understand this, it's just that the "do nothing, it'll fall into our hands" approach started failing. The draft quality seems to be worse every year, Yoshi bailed, and our IMP scouting has always stunk.
So now we need to make it a priority and focus again. Seems simple. Does Mafia know this?
Quote from: Tecno on December 12, 2025, 04:39:39 PMFully agree. We used to understand this. Mafia spent so long building a top tier OL. But since Desjar left it's all been downhill. I think we still understand this, it's just that the "do nothing, it'll fall into our hands" approach started failing. The draft quality seems to be worse every year, Yoshi bailed, and our IMP scouting has always stunk.
So now we need to make it a priority and focus again. Seems simple. Does Mafia know this?
This is just an absolute mystery. Like you say, we spent years building up the OL. Letting guys walk because we had the next guy in the pipeline and thrived with the top OL in the league.
But we've drafted one prospect in the past 4 years (Wallace). It just blows my mind.
Quote from: Jesse on December 12, 2025, 04:45:54 PMBut we've drafted one prospect in the past 4 years (Wallace). It just blows my mind.
* TBD
He might be a bust (i.e. mediocre) too. Wallace strikes me as more a Speller/Spooner than a Desjar.
Quote from: Tecno on December 12, 2025, 04:55:08 PM* TBD
He might be a bust (i.e. mediocre) too. Wallace strikes me as more a Speller/Spooner than a Desjar.
I don't even mean successfully drafted, he's literally the only body in the first few rounds in the last 4 years.
Quote from: Jesse on December 12, 2025, 04:45:54 PMThis is just an absolute mystery. Like you say, we spent years building up the OL. Letting guys walk because we had the next guy in the pipeline and thrived with the top OL in the league.
But we've drafted one prospect in the past 4 years (Wallace). It just blows my mind.
I'd have to think it's a combination of complacency (at least a bit) and draft positioning due to the team's overall success the last half decade or so.
We've seen the trenches of this team become weaker the last couple of years, so it's imperative on management to address that. Both lines need upgrades.
Quote from: Jesse on December 12, 2025, 05:07:19 PMI don't even mean successfully drafted, he's literally the only body in the first few rounds in the last 4 years.
Drafting O-lineman is a tricky business as the NFL is more than willing to give the best prospects a shot, Giovanni Manu Bombers 5th round pick in 2024 is still trying to catch on with the Detroit Lions, if he was to return the O-line depth would be restored.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 12, 2025, 05:32:24 PMDrafting O-lineman is a tricky business as the NFL is more than willing to give the best prospects a shot, Giovanni Manu Bombers 5th round pick in 2024 is still trying to catch on with the Detroit Lions, if he was to return the O-line depth would be restored.
That's a lottery ticket. He's never coming North.
And when Walters first was hired, it was an OL in every draft. We've hamstrung ourselves. We didn't need to pick 3 LBs last time.
Quote from: Tecno on December 12, 2025, 04:55:08 PM* TBD
He might be a bust (i.e. mediocre) too. Wallace strikes me as more a Speller/Spooner than a Desjar.
I think you've got this wrong if the O-line has problems it's not on the left side. Wallace is the future of the O-line, in 3 years everyone else will be gone but he should be the anchor tenant as long as Walters pays him right. I don't think Desjarlais has made the playoffs since he left Wpg, yipee for him.
Quote from: Tecno on December 12, 2025, 04:39:39 PMFully agree. We used to understand this. Mafia spent so long building a top tier OL. But since Desjar left it's all been downhill. I think we still understand this, it's just that the "do nothing, it'll fall into our hands" approach started failing. The draft quality seems to be worse every year, Yoshi bailed, and our IMP scouting has always stunk.
So now we need to make it a priority and focus again. Seems simple. Does Mafia know this?
an issue is that we've been picking in the bottom 5 each year and any oline that can make a difference hasn't been available. We did well getting Wallace in the bottom of the 2nd round, and even Vibert. Not sure if we can name a olineman that we had a chance to draft that is starting in the cfl.
With the nfl taking many of the top choices the pickens are slim
Quote from: Pete on December 12, 2025, 05:57:27 PMWe did well getting Wallace in the bottom of the 2nd round, and even Vibert. Not sure if we can name a olineman that we had a chance to draft that is starting in the cfl.
If your GC appearances mean you can't draft then you MUST pay up in FA. We didn't. So we suffer.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 12, 2025, 05:47:54 PMI don't think Desjarlais has made the playoffs since he left Wpg, yipee for him.
Right, he has been languishing on a crap team. But that doesn't do us any good. Us gloating won't help either. After all, for Desjar, he did make bank.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 12, 2025, 05:47:54 PMI think you've got this wrong if the O-line has problems it's not on the left side. Wallace is the future of the O-line, in 3 years everyone else will be gone but he should be the anchor tenant as long as Walters pays him right.
I really hope you're right. I don't see Wallace as a Desjar. He's not even a Bond. Heck, he might not even be a Grey.
Can he improve? We have to hope so. Maybe he's a slow developer (or maybe he's just slow...).
As for paying him, it's easy while he's mediocre. If/when he gets good, if history is any guide, we'll let him walk along with all the other star NATs.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 12, 2025, 05:32:24 PMGiovanni Manu Bombers 5th round pick in 2024 is still trying to catch on with the Detroit Lions, if he was to return the O-line depth would be restored.
A hoggie in the hand is worth 2 in the NFL. Actually, 10 in the NFL.
He's still unlikely to come to the CFL although he did have a horrible start this season and now finds himself on the IR . If it was incredibly unlikely before, it's just really unlikely now. He's a fourth round draft choice so he's going to get more opportunities (and probably would get picked up pretty quick by someone else) and he's already made a couple million USD.
Quote from: Pete on December 12, 2025, 05:57:27 PMan issue is that we've been picking in the bottom 5 each year and any oline that can make a difference hasn't been available. We did well getting Wallace in the bottom of the 2nd round, and even Vibert. Not sure if we can name a olineman that we had a chance to draft that is starting in the cfl.
With the nfl taking many of the top choices the pickens are slim
Chris Fortin started for Calgary this year. We picked Shay instead.
Quote from: Jesse on December 12, 2025, 07:05:09 PMChris Fortin started for Calgary this year. We picked Shay instead.
Fortin was available when we picked Shay? Ouch...
Let's hope Shay is a year 2 starter at least at Kramdi level then. A NAT WILL or MLB would sure bust the ratio.
Quote from: Tecno on December 12, 2025, 08:24:05 PMFortin was available when we picked Shay? Ouch...
Let's hope Shay is a year 2 starter at least at Kramdi level then. A NAT WILL or MLB would sure bust the ratio.
I don't think Connor Shay is beating out Tony Jones any time soon, and we just signed Jones to a 2 year deal....
Quote from: Tecno on December 12, 2025, 08:24:05 PMFortin was available when we picked Shay? Ouch...
Let's hope Shay is a year 2 starter at least at Kramdi level then. A NAT WILL or MLB would sure bust the ratio.
He could change the need for a DI back up or he might be in the mix at WIL. If neither is true than we drafted poorly by not choosing Fortin.
So far he's had 10 ST's and no DT's. Fortin has been a starter in year 1.
Quote from: VictorRomano on December 12, 2025, 08:31:38 PMI don't think Connor Shay is beating out Tony Jones any time soon, and we just signed Jones to a 2 year deal....
I agree. However, Shay may turn out to be the smarter one, and that can be important for the MLB, and I think T.Jones would be just as effective at WILL. I have no idea how this will shake out, but to stop our history of draft busts we better turn Shay into
something besides the next Gauthier.
Quote from: Blue In BC on December 12, 2025, 08:34:35 PMSo far he's had 10 ST's and no DT's. Fortin has been a starter in year 1.
Shay barely saw any action on the D, so take that stat with a grain of salt.
I expected a little more out of Shay this season. But, I was very happy with Smith. Smith might end up starting before Shay.
Quote from: Tecno on December 12, 2025, 08:54:38 PMShay barely saw any action on the D, so take that stat with a grain of salt.
That's the catch. We don't know what the plan is or what his talent level will be. Just saying as far as 2025 we added an ST player while Fortin started on the OL as a 1st year draft choice.
I'm another who was disappointed Shay didn't get more opportunities on defence.
Quote from: VictorRomano on December 12, 2025, 08:31:38 PMI don't think Connor Shay is beating out Tony Jones any time soon, and we just signed Jones to a 2 year deal....
Jones just signed a 2 year deal prior to last season, so he's only got 1 year left. If it makes good ratio sense to replace him with Shay they probably will, whether he's as good as Jones or not. That's how Sam Hurl became the Bombers starting MLB twice.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 13, 2025, 02:13:48 AMJones just signed a 2 year deal prior to last season, so he's only got 1 year left. If it makes good ratio sense to replace him with Shay they probably will, whether he's as good as Jones or not. That's how Sam Hurl became the Bombers starting MLB twice.
At the moment we don't need ratio help but that could change during free agency or a choice to move to 3 import OL.
I don't see this happening to start the season. We need to see Shay get some reps on defence before we make any judgement.
Quote from: Blue In BC on December 15, 2025, 05:26:24 PMAt the moment we don't need ratio help but that could change during free agency or a choice to move to 3 import OL.
I don't see this happening to start the season. We need to see Shay get some reps on defence before we make any judgement.
What's a rookie contract duration, 2 years plus an option? They either use Shay this year or lose him next year, first year he should have gotten some looks. Perhaps the Bombers have gotten inefficient or lazy with their integration of their draft picks. With Ty Ford they only got one game plus one season out of an outstanding ratio unicorn, did they fail to recognize his talent early enough or were they so ingrained in their player hierarchy O'Shea didn't want to push him forward and ruffle feathers among the vets?
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 15, 2025, 05:54:35 PMWhat's a rookie contract duration, 2 years plus an option? They either use Shay this year or lose him next year, first year he should have gotten some looks. Perhaps the Bombers have gotten inefficient or lazy with their integration of their draft picks. With Ty Ford they only got one game plus one season out of an outstanding ratio unicorn, did they fail to recognize his talent early enough or were they so ingrained in their player hierarchy O'Shea didn't want to push him forward and ruffle feathers among the vets?
I'm certain O'Shea knew what the Bombers had in Ford. He wanted to play with his brother and that, most likely, was the driving factor to sign with Edmonton.
Quote from: ModAdmin on December 15, 2025, 06:11:41 PMI'm certain O'Shea knew what the Bombers had in Ford. He wanted to play with his brother and that, most likely, was the driving factor to sign with Edmonton.
You miss the point, in the time Ford was in Wpg. he only started in 19 out of 36 games so they did not reap max value from his services or his ratio flex. Perhaps that effected his decision to leave. Maybe they're making the same mistake with other rookies like Shay, by holding him out entirely for his first year making him wait his turn? Other teams seem much quicker to embrace their high draft picks, Bombers stick them in the back of the bus and tell them to be patient.
GM Danny Maciocia noncommittal about Marc-Antoine Dequoy's future with Montreal Alouettes.
"Listen, there is enough money left for at most a few players. There will certainly be choices to make," Maciocia said. "You talk to me about Marc-Antoine, other people talk to me about (Darnell) Sankey, and others talk about (Geoffrey) Cantin-Arku."
https://3downnation.com/2025/12/15/gm-danny-maciocia-noncommittal-about-marc-antoine-dequoys-future-with-montreal-alouettes/ (https://3downnation.com/2025/12/15/gm-danny-maciocia-noncommittal-about-marc-antoine-dequoys-future-with-montreal-alouettes/)
Surprise, Dequoy could ignite a massive bidding war.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 15, 2025, 06:34:30 PMYou miss the point, in the time Ford was in Wpg. he only started in 19 out of 36 games so they did not reap max value from his services or his ratio flex. Perhaps that effected his decision to leave. Maybe they're making the same mistake with other rookies like Shay, by holding him out entirely for his first year making him wait his turn? Other teams seem much quicker to embrace their high draft picks, Bombers stick them in the back of the bus and tell them to be patient.
Whether Ford played 19 games out of 36 or 36 out of 36, he left when he was a starter and staple on the D and my belief is that the primary reason he left was to play with his brother.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 15, 2025, 06:34:30 PMYou miss the point, in the time Ford was in Wpg. he only started in 19 out of 36 games so they did not reap max value from his services or his ratio flex. Perhaps that effected his decision to leave. Maybe they're making the same mistake with other rookies like Shay, by holding him out entirely for his first year making him wait his turn? Other teams seem much quicker to embrace their high draft picks, Bombers stick them in the back of the bus and tell them to be patient.
Your point is seemingly based on nothing more than speculation, and then extrapolated to another situation entirely. I highly doubt this team, or any other, takes some one size fits all approach to its rookie players/prospects.
Money was one driving factor when he signed with the Elks. Getting to play with his brother was likely another enticing factor in that decision. Neither helped push that team over the hump and they missed the playoffs - again.
The claim that the Bombers are somehow holding back their rookies seems entirely without merit.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 15, 2025, 06:38:48 PMGM Danny Maciocia noncommittal about Marc-Antoine Dequoy's future with Montreal Alouettes.
"Listen, there is enough money left for at most a few players. There will certainly be choices to make," Maciocia said. "You talk to me about Marc-Antoine, other people talk to me about (Darnell) Sankey, and others talk about (Geoffrey) Cantin-Arku."
https://3downnation.com/2025/12/15/gm-danny-maciocia-noncommittal-about-marc-antoine-dequoys-future-with-montreal-alouettes/ (https://3downnation.com/2025/12/15/gm-danny-maciocia-noncommittal-about-marc-antoine-dequoys-future-with-montreal-alouettes/)
Surprise, Dequoy could ignite a massive bidding war.
I'd hope that Walters gets in on that action.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 15, 2025, 05:54:35 PMWhat's a rookie contract duration, 2 years plus an option? They either use Shay this year or lose him next year, first year he should have gotten some looks.
From my vantage point Ballsy was favored over Shay. Which is a bit odd. I don't know what round Ballsy was drafted in, but it was well below Shay.
Shay may have non-talent issues that has him more in the dog house. We all know that low-effort practicers or guys with beefs will go down the pecking order mighty fast when Mafia is in charge.
Let's hope that's not the case, or we'll have another spectacular 1RDP bust on our hands.
As for "lose him", he hasn't shown anything at all so who is going to offer him "steal him away" money? He needs to show something in order to be a juicy FA target. So if anything we should keep him hidden on the dev track so we can lock him in a cheap 2-year deal in FA27!!
Canadian rookie sign 3 year deals so Shay would be signed for 26 and 27. I see no evidence that Ball was favoured over Shay. Hopefully at worst we see Shay and Smith taking reps on D in 2026.
Quote from: RebusRankin on December 16, 2025, 02:39:01 AMCanadian rookie sign 3 year deals so Shay would be signed for 26 and 27. I see no evidence that Ball was favoured over Shay. Hopefully at worst we see Shay and Smith taking reps on D in 2026.
I'm 99% sure NAT DP ELC is 2 year.
I just noticed Ball a lot more than Shay. They had basically the same ST stat, but Ball played 5 less games because of IR! Pretty sure I saw Ball out on D a few times, but never Shay (except maybe the last "rest" game).
Maybe it's just Ballsy is doing more to get noticed? Dunno. I have zero knowledge or guesses as to whether there's any internal favoritism. Just going by what I see on the field.
Quote from: Tecno on December 16, 2025, 04:43:47 AMI'm 99% sure NAT DP ELC is 2 year.
I just noticed Ball a lot more than Shay. They had basically the same ST stat, but Ball played 5 less games because of IR! Pretty sure I saw Ball out on D a few times, but never Shay (except maybe the last "rest" game).
Maybe it's just Ballsy is doing more to get noticed? Dunno. I have zero knowledge or guesses as to whether there's any internal favoritism. Just going by what I see on the field.
They just play different positions. Our secondary was pretty roughed up and we needed bodies, whereas our LBs stayed healthy all year.
That said, if Shay looked as good as they expected him to be when they drafted him, I would have thought he'd get some defensive snaps as the year progressed and he didn't. I hope that changes in year 2.
Quote from: Tecno on December 16, 2025, 04:43:47 AMI'm 99% sure NAT DP ELC is 2 year.
I just noticed Ball a lot more than Shay. They had basically the same ST stat, but Ball played 5 less games because of IR! Pretty sure I saw Ball out on D a few times, but never Shay (except maybe the last "rest" game).
Maybe it's just Ballsy is doing more to get noticed? Dunno. I have zero knowledge or guesses as to whether there's any internal favoritism. Just going by what I see on the field.
Could be wrong, but I expect Ball will remain a career long ST player like Hallett, maybe here, maybe elsewhere.
Quote from: ModAdmin on December 15, 2025, 06:41:14 PMWhether Ford played 19 games out of 36 or 36 out of 36, he left when he was a starter and staple on the D and my belief is that the primary reason he left was to play with his brother.
19 of 36 is not very good, considering no injury time. I'm not disagreeing with the reason Ford left, I'm grousing about how they didn't integrate him quickly enough to take advantage of his incredible talent as he did not start until the last game of his first season in a meaningless game. Thanks to Genius Sports I can't find the depth charts that shows the name of the corner he sat behind throughout 2023, but I think it's fair to say Ford was likely the superior player at that time and they underestimated his ability to adapt to the game.
The ratio is of primary importance, you have to find ways to get superior Natl. talent on the field asap as it opens up extra opportunities and possibilities throughout the lineup.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 16, 2025, 06:52:32 PM19 of 36 is not very good, considering no injury time.
But we (almost) always ease DBs into their role. We didn't know we had some who may have been close to D.Alford caliber. Or maybe we didn't care as we thought he had to put in his dev dues like everyone else.
Plus, even at that time, our DB schemes were complex and you can't just throw a rookie on the field. They do have to learn how it all works.
I went in my old roster pile and Ford was often behind Parker in 2022. Rose was the other side.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 15, 2025, 06:38:48 PMGM Danny Maciocia noncommittal about Marc-Antoine Dequoy's future with Montreal Alouettes.
"Listen, there is enough money left for at most a few players. There will certainly be choices to make," Maciocia said. "You talk to me about Marc-Antoine, other people talk to me about (Darnell) Sankey, and others talk about (Geoffrey) Cantin-Arku."
https://3downnation.com/2025/12/15/gm-danny-maciocia-noncommittal-about-marc-antoine-dequoys-future-with-montreal-alouettes/ (https://3downnation.com/2025/12/15/gm-danny-maciocia-noncommittal-about-marc-antoine-dequoys-future-with-montreal-alouettes/)
Surprise, Dequoy could ignite a massive bidding war.
so they sign Philipot for a boat load of money then release Sankey and how cry poor/only so much money for dequoy. I too hope we get in on that action, that would be huge!! He didn't have as good a year as last year, but still is a very decent safety.
Quote from: dd on December 16, 2025, 11:14:20 PMso they sign Philipot for a boat load of money then release Sankey and how cry poor/only so much money for dequoy. I too hope we get in on that action, that would be huge!! He didn't have as good a year as last year, but still is a very decent safety.
Maciocia maybe playing Dequoy for a home-town discount, he probably knows he doesn't want to play anywhere other than Montreal and he's going to ask for $200k+ which is well beyond Safety salaries. Dangerous gamble if true, most teams would kill to have a Natl. Safety of that calibre. If I was Walters I'd offer Kramdi + Kyrie for his rights.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 17, 2025, 04:51:53 PMIf I was Walters I'd offer Kramdi + Kyrie for his rights.
That's kinda nuts. Not to mention with Beverette MTL has no desire for another WILL. And we gain nothing by trading a NAT SAM for a NAT FS. If anything, NAT SAMs are rarer and thus more valuable.
Quote from: dd on December 16, 2025, 11:14:20 PMso they sign Philipot for a boat load of money then release Sankey and how cry poor/only so much money for dequoy. I too hope we get in on that action, that would be huge!! He didn't have as good a year as last year, but still is a very decent safety.
That's the problem with having a top FS. Teams can just scheme around him to lock him out. And that's what they basically did.
And I'm not sure Dequoy would fit in our scheme. We don't really have roving FSs. We do a lot of 2 "FS" sets on passing downs, and everyone has their assigned spot. What would a fast sideline-to-sideline Dequoy buy us without changing the scheme? We also want our FS to help on run stop. Featherweight Dequoy got plowed, and I think injured, when big RBs were steaming into him.
A team looking to shell out big for Dequoy would have to be sure he fits in with their D paradigm. I'm sure there are some out there.
Besides, we'd NEVER pay big $ for a FS, and we don't need the ratio help. We don't value DBs at the best of times, let alone the "bonus" FS spot.
Quote from: Tecno on December 17, 2025, 05:56:42 PMThat's kinda nuts. Not to mention with Beverette MTL has no desire for another WILL. And we gain nothing by trading a NAT SAM for a NAT FS. If anything, NAT SAMs are rarer and thus more valuable.
It's a trick, basically Kramdi for Dequoy with Kyrie thrown in as a bonus to make them think they won the trade. As good as Kyrie played last season he's near the end of the line and he's holding up traffic behind him.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on December 17, 2025, 06:36:15 PMIt's a trick
Wel, there's no harm in wishing! Maybe Maciocia will have a multi-hour brain toot or sudden onset dementia. You never know!
You still haven't explained how gaining Dequoy but losing Kramdi massively helps us given our scheme... and who do we put at SAM then? Griffin?
Quote from: Tecno on December 17, 2025, 07:12:38 PMWel, there's no harm in wishing! Maybe Maciocia will have a multi-hour brain toot or sudden onset dementia. You never know!
You still haven't explained how gaining Dequoy but losing Kramdi massively helps us given our scheme... and who do we put at SAM then? Griffin?
Yah Griffin or Woodbey, Kramdi is creating his own traffic jam at SAM, they chould move him to Safety and Allen to CB. Allen is ok, but not great physically, they have not had a dominant Safety since BA in 2023 before injuries diminished him.