I think we all remember the moment. It was 2019. We had gotten off to a hot start with Matt Nichols ( but we'd seen that before), we struggled under Streveler, and we made the desperate, doomed-to-fail trade for the ever concussed Zach Collaros. We were facing off against Calgary and why would we think we had a shot? Another season done.
But then, the moment. Zach rolls out, buys time, and hits Darvin Adams for a TD and everyone knew something was different. We now had a shot.
Today, I experienced the opposite moment. The end of the dynasty, if such a thing ever existed. Now, facing a team that had fully given up and was attempting to hand us the win, we still found ourselves down and needing another score. So, in field goal range and 5 minutes left in the game, Zach tosses a monstrous ball. Overthrown to a receiver in between double coverage.
As sure as I was in that moment in 2019, and as positive as I've been throughout 2025, I am now sure our season is over. We won the game. But I'm not sure I've ever seen such a sad sack effort.
I'm with you brother. This season has felt like a delayed foray into a barren wilderness, accentuated by that end of KG years where you knew even if we were playing well (and we're far from that), we are going to screw it up. And that foray will be long if we refuse to blow this team up, as hard as that might be.
Quote from: Jesse on October 18, 2025, 03:18:47 AMI think we all remember the moment. It was 2019. We had gotten off to a hot start with Matt Nichols ( but we'd seen that before), we struggled under Streveler, and we made the desperate, doomed-to-fail trade for the ever concussed Zach Collaros. We were facing off against Calgary and why would we think we had a shot? Another season done.
But then, the moment. Zach rolls out, buys time, and hits Darvin Adams for a TD and everyone knew something was different. We now had a shot.
Today, I experienced the opposite moment. The end of the dynasty, if such a thing ever existed. Now, facing a team that had fully given up and was attempting to hand us the win, we still found ourselves down and needing another score. So, in field goal range and 5 minutes left in the game, Zach tosses a monstrous ball. Overthrown to a receiver in between double coverage.
As sure as I was in that moment in 2019, and as positive as I've been throughout 2025, I am now sure our season is over. We won the game. But I'm not sure I've ever seen such a sad sack effort.
Bang on.
That win was nothing to be proud of, in fact, as you eloquently pointed out, it clearly shows this team does not have anywhere near what it takes to compete in this league. That effort was embarassing and I fully expect 50% turnover in starters next season. We need 3 receivers and 3 O linemen for starters, a new OC and new Qb. Defense and special teams are ok, our problems are all on the offensive side of the ball
Quote from: Jesse on October 18, 2025, 03:18:47 AMI think we all remember the moment. It was 2019. We had gotten off to a hot start with Matt Nichols ( but we'd seen that before), we struggled under Streveler, and we made the desperate, doomed-to-fail trade for the ever concussed Zach Collaros. We were facing off against Calgary and why would we think we had a shot? Another season done.
But then, the moment. Zach rolls out, buys time, and hits Darvin Adams for a TD and everyone knew something was different. We now had a shot.
Today, I experienced the opposite moment. The end of the dynasty, if such a thing ever existed. Now, facing a team that had fully given up and was attempting to hand us the win, we still found ourselves down and needing another score. So, in field goal range and 5 minutes left in the game, Zach tosses a monstrous ball. Overthrown to a receiver in between double coverage.
As sure as I was in that moment in 2019, and as positive as I've been throughout 2025, I am now sure our season is over. We won the game. But I'm not sure I've ever seen such a sad sack effort.
very poetic and accurate. Pathetic win if there ever was one.
Quote from: dd on October 18, 2025, 03:36:44 AMBang on.
That win was nothing to be proud of, in fact, as you eloquently pointed out, it clearly shows this team does not have anywhere near what it takes to compete in this league. That effort was embarassing and I fully expect 50% turnover in starters next season. We need 3 receivers and 3 O linemen for starters, a new OC and new Qb. Defense and special teams are ok, our problems are all on the offensive side of the ball
I'd contend we need to empty the QB room entirely. Zach and Chris are done, and if Wilson can't get on the field in spite of that, he can follow them out.
MOS is out of tricks and is too emotionally attached to the old guard to move away from them. So he follows Zach out the door too.
As I've stated before, I love Zach for all he's done for us, but he should have hung up the cleats already. If he sticks around for another year he runs the risk of tarnishing his legacy severely, nevermind his health. First ballot hall of famer, absolutely.
At this point I don't see Zach playing next year.
Quote from: Jesse on October 18, 2025, 03:18:47 AMI think we all remember the moment. It was 2019. We had gotten off to a hot start with Matt Nichols ( but we'd seen that before), we struggled under Streveler, and we made the desperate, doomed-to-fail trade for the ever concussed Zach Collaros. We were facing off against Calgary and why would we think we had a shot? Another season done.
But then, the moment. Zach rolls out, buys time, and hits Darvin Adams for a TD and everyone knew something was different. We now had a shot.
Today, I experienced the opposite moment. The end of the dynasty, if such a thing ever existed. Now, facing a team that had fully given up and was attempting to hand us the win, we still found ourselves down and needing another score. So, in field goal range and 5 minutes left in the game, Zach tosses a monstrous ball. Overthrown to a receiver in between double coverage.
As sure as I was in that moment in 2019, and as positive as I've been throughout 2025, I am now sure our season is over. We won the game. But I'm not sure I've ever seen such a sad sack effort.
Grateful the deficiencies have been exposed early instead of on Grey Cup day, it gives Kyle and Wade all off-season to pressure MOS and push for the needed changes that will keep the stadium full again next season. Time to take stock and make adjustments, hopefully this is as far as they fall.
Quote from: BlueInCgy on October 18, 2025, 03:41:59 AMI'd contend we need to empty the QB room entirely. Zach and Chris are done, and if Wilson can't get on the field in spite of that, he can follow them out.
MOS is out of tricks and is too emotionally attached to the old guard to move away from them. So he follows Zach out the door too.
As I've stated before, I love Zach for all he's done for us, but he should have hung up the cleats already. If he sticks around for another year he runs the risk of tarnishing his legacy severely, nevermind his health. First ballot hall of famer, absolutely.
It's sad when they try and hang on, as you'd like to re,enter them for when they played great, not like he has this season. He's had one good game vs hamilton,the rest were brutal.
Quote from: dd on October 18, 2025, 04:45:17 AMIt's sad when they try and hang on, as you'd like to re,enter them for when they played great, not like he has this season. He's had one good game vs hamilton,the rest were brutal.
Yep getting on the same page with his receivers has been a huge problem for Zach this season but his ability to throw the ball accurately has also been a huge problem for the last 2 years, most of the interceptions are on him.
It's clear that Collaros is struggling with the triple-whammy of a weak offensive line, less experienced receivers (he lost Lawler, Schoen, and Demski [for 1 or 2 games] year-over-year), and an inexperienced Offensive Coordinator.
One can only wonder if he's actually playing well, all things considered, or is long past his prime. That would be a shame, there have been other QBs with success who were/are older than him (Trevor Harris in Sask this year, and then historically Damon Allen, Ricky Ray, and Henry Burris have all won Grey Cups in their late 30's).
I agree with the OP. Excellent post.
On the QB room clearing out comment, agree but we already reupped Zach for 2026
I am not quite as pessimistic as many here. I think Colleros can still be an effective QB but not with this O line. I like Bryant and all he has done for this club but it might be time to move on from him. The Bombers need a better center and it is time to move on. Neufeld is still a pretty good run blocker but he needs to be really challenged for a job. I think I would keep Wallace because he is young and I see an upside.Randolph has been okay but I would want him to be challenged in camp next year.The receivers just need to get healthy. A receiveing core of Clerius,Demski, Shoen,Wheatful and Wilson would be pretty decent.The current defense and special teams of the Bombers are near the best in the league.The Bombers can compete in this years playoffs IF they can stop turning over the ball.The Bombers have not done this too many times this season however when they have protected the ball they have won and looked good doing it.
Agree we need to re-vamp our O line, starting at centre. We need a #1 reciever like Austin Mack or Hatcher to extend the field, maybe Hardy from Ottawa or Pimpleton would be great weapon for sure, and they are probably tired of losing/out of the playoffs in Ottawa---I wouldn't count on anything from Schoen, as IF he comes back, he will be a shadow of his former self.
Zac was a,aging! The defence behind a bumbling coaching leader, actually played awesome.mgame plan. Make the opposite QB throws short, rally amd we should score .15. So that's what we did.. I think many games in the next couple weeks will see the defences rose up. I mean everyone has seem I the other teams philosophies.
Our O line is awful. How could the management sign these guys? They are so inconsistent.
The OC is so far over his head, he's running min threatening motion? Guys looping in the backfield?
Zac is amazing to stay alive. Yes he puts the. Ball up for the receivers to make awesome catches. As my QB used to say, make a catch! What do ya want ...PASSES MY GRANDMA COULD CATCH,
Poor Zac and the receivers. That OC should never be allowed in the stadium after this season finishes. Maybe he brings Mueller over after the Roders win the Cup.
Or Dinwiddie should be available, how about Hamilton or Montreals Coacjes, presuming OSjea resigns. He loos pooped.
O'Shea knows it, but he's a classy guy. He doesn't want to emnarasss the kid.
Great win by Zac, rhe defense and for OSjea hanging in there.
Quote from: bwiser on October 18, 2025, 05:52:43 PMThe current defense and special teams of the Bombers are near the best in the league.
I agree that defense has been decent this year, there haven't been that many games where the opponents have run up the score. So many times they've been put in a bad position because of turnovers or the offence's inability to move the ball.
I think WPG's special teams have been very strong this year. There have been previous years when they were giving up too much yardage on returns, or had poor coverage on returns, or the punter couldn't angle it right, or the kicker was too inconsistent (e.g., 2022). However, this year's team has had none of those problem (not on a consistent basis) plus the Bombers have a strong return game.
So, the weak offence and poor game management notwithstanding, there's something to build on.
Quote from: Cool Spot on October 18, 2025, 10:28:14 PMI think WPG's special teams have been very strong this year.
Except yesterday when they almost lost the game for us. Almost every point came off of a big SSK ST play. Gotta clean that up.
Yes, other than that they've been extremely strong, and I think only allowed 1 TD all season? I think the massive & illegal holding/blocking by SSK throws them for a loop. We expect mostly fair play and SSK just poops all over that concept, and the refs can't see every infraction, especially holding away from the ball.
Quote from: dd on October 18, 2025, 04:45:17 AMHe's had one good game vs hamilton,the rest were brutal.
He had another great game earlier in the season, can't remember which, but it was a good fantasy result for him. And maybe 1 other good-ish game. The rest were average or garbage.
Quote from: dd on October 18, 2025, 03:36:44 AMDefense and special teams are ok, our problems are all on the offensive side of the ball
Which is funny, because once again I think we spent bigger on O than D. Not as extravagant as '24 with Kenny, but still spending big coin. Contrast with SSK who put all their money into D -- every REC is budget except Emilus.
Quote from: Jesse on October 18, 2025, 03:18:47 AMSo, in field goal range and 5 minutes left in the game, Zach tosses a monstrous ball. Overthrown to a receiver in between double coverage.
I'm starting to wonder how much of Zach's INT and "bad decision" problems are due to RECs running the wrong routes or just getting beaten to the ball. At least we can safely say he's not underthrowing anymore. Everything is overthrown or nothing, now.
That one play where Zach throws into a dense SSK zone and no WPG is within 15Y... surely a REC was supposed to cut in for a timing route and didn't. There must be a lot of this. That is part of why I think Zach is so frustrated and actually called out the whole O in the post-game. REC makes the wrong cut or stops his route, Zach takes the INT stat -- but it's not his fault. I'm just guessing -- need to rewatch, assuming TSN shows anything useful.
Quote from: Tecno on October 19, 2025, 05:20:25 AMI'm starting to wonder how much of Zach's INT and "bad decision" problems are due to RECs running the wrong routes or just getting beaten to the ball. At least we can safely say he's not underthrowing anymore. Everything is overthrown or nothing, now.
That one play where Zach throws into a dense SSK zone and no WPG is within 15Y... surely a REC was supposed to cut in for a timing route and didn't. There must be a lot of this. That is part of why I think Zach is so frustrated and actually called out the whole O in the post-game. REC makes the wrong cut or stops his route, Zach takes the INT stat -- but it's not his fault. I'm just guessing -- need to rewatch, assuming TSN shows anything useful.
My personal belief is the egregious ones we see are a result of reaction time. He sees the open play and there's a fraction of a second delay between recognition and throwing the ball and open receiver becomes covered receiver.
But there's also the quickly collapsing pockets and poorly drawn up route schemes that doesn't include a hot route for him to hit.
This final game against Mtl, I would like to see Wilson start and have Chase Artopoeus as #2 and get into at least 1 quarter. Let's see what we have with these two guys. Dress Strev as #3, give ZC the day off so he can watch the Mtl defence as they might be our playoff opponent.
Quote from: Tecno on October 19, 2025, 05:20:25 AMI'm starting to wonder how much of Zach's INT and "bad decision" problems are due to RECs running the wrong routes or just getting beaten to the ball. At least we can safely say he's not underthrowing anymore. Everything is overthrown or nothing, now.
That one play where Zach throws into a dense SSK zone and no WPG is within 15Y... surely a REC was supposed to cut in for a timing route and didn't. There must be a lot of this. That is part of why I think Zach is so frustrated and actually called out the whole O in the post-game. REC makes the wrong cut or stops his route, Zach takes the INT stat -- but it's not his fault. I'm just guessing -- need to rewatch, assuming TSN shows anything useful.
He was massively p*ssed off post game and he was holding his tongue but you could tell he's not happy with his recievers, and he's getting hung out to dry as a result of it. If it was his fault, he would have owned up to it, but he's tired of being pounded because of our crappy O line, only to have recievers who either run the wrong route or don't compete for the ball. I'd keep Demski,Sterns and Wilson and flush all others, they are useless. Too many passengers riding the bus, nobody making plays
Quote from: Horseman on October 19, 2025, 03:43:47 PMThis final game against Mtl, I would like to see Wilson start and have Chase Artopoeus as #2 and get into at least 1 quarter. Let's see what we have with these two guys. Dress Strev as #3, give ZC the day off so he can watch the Mtl defence as they might be our playoff opponent.
Love this as my fear is that Strev takes a pounding for nothing and then we end up needing him in the playoffs. Keep both guys that may play fresh.
Quote from: Jesse on October 19, 2025, 01:35:19 PMMy personal belief is the egregious ones we see are a result of reaction time. He sees the open play and there's a fraction of a second delay between recognition and throwing the ball and open receiver becomes covered receiver.
But there's also the quickly collapsing pockets and poorly drawn up route schemes that doesn't include a hot route for him to hit.
Watch Zach's feet, he's rarely set up well to make throws using his lower body as the driver, when he releases the ball he's often in the air or hopping backwards, overly relying on his upper body strength to propel the ball which effects velocity and accuracy . Maybe that's due to poor O-line protection or maybe he's become skittish about absorbing more concussion damage, whatever the reason a quick season saving solution is not in the cards.
Don't forget the Ti-Cats made the decision to give up on him 3 seasons after acquiring him in 2014 FA as did the Riders in 2019, so he's gone through existential crisis before.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 19, 2025, 05:02:34 PMWatch Zach's feet, he's rarely set up well to make throws using his lower body as the driver, when he releases the ball he's often in the air or hopping backwards, overly relying on his upper body strength to propel the ball which effects velocity and accuracy . Maybe that's due to poor O-line protection or maybe he's become skittish about absorbing more concussion damage, whatever the reason a quick season saving solution is not in the cards.
Don't forget the Ti-Cats made the decision to give up on him 3 seasons after acquiring him in 2014 FA as did the Riders in 2019, so he's gone through existential crisis before.
We have a quarterback coach right?? If he's doing as you describe, what is jackson doing about it?? Our O line protection performance and protection schemes are horrible. The man is taking an unprecedented pounding and it is very difficult to watch even, I can't imagine how he's feeling physically today, and then mentally to have to perpare yourself to go out with an O line that can't pickup a simple Linebacker blitzing the A gap....its like watching JV football for petes sake!!
Zach is not playing as well as he once did. The Oline has some issues. The receiving corps needs some upgrades. Our playcalling is awful. Its all those things imo.
Quote from: dd on October 19, 2025, 05:50:22 PMWe have a quarterback coach right?? If he's doing as you describe, what is jackson doing about it?? Our O line protection performance and protection schemes are horrible. The man is taking an unprecedented pounding and it is very difficult to watch even, I can't imagine how he's feeling physically today, and then mentally to have to perpare yourself to go out with an O line that can't pickup a simple Linebacker blitzing the A gap....its like watching JV football for petes sake!!
On the play Zach got swacked Brady and MCI were nowhere in sight to protect him, sending Brady out as an extra receiver over blocking duty should be verboten when the key to the game is protecting the QB from taking heavy shots.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 19, 2025, 07:07:20 PMOn the play Zach got swacked Brady and MCI were nowhere in sight to protect him, sending Brady out as an extra receiver over blocking duty should be verboten when the key to the game is protecting the QB from taking heavy shots.
You would think with all the protection problems we re having that MCI or a 6th O lineman would be a staple in the formation, it's not like pulling another reciever out ie your #5, is going to impact our passing game, as a checkdown to Brady is always an option. Going with our 5 man O line is suicide for Collaros.
Dru Brown's contract is done with Ottawa....
He didn't have a very good year with them, so I'm wondering if we can pull both Brown and Collaros next year (assuming Collaros takes a pay cut).
Quote from: peg_city on October 20, 2025, 02:57:28 PMDru Brown's contract is done with Ottawa
Every year there are guys that would look good here that never make it to Feb and free agency. Trade and sign maybe is the way. That's how Calgary got Adams. That is a reasonable contract too.
Quote from: Waffler on October 20, 2025, 03:43:56 PMEvery year there are guys that would look good here that never make it to Feb and free agency. Trade and sign maybe is the way. That's how Calgary got Adams. That is a reasonable contract too.
A rumour has the RedBlacks offering Dinwiddie the GM/HC position, which may be a good enough salary bump to convince him to move. If true, Dru Brown probably would want to stay put unless Dinwiddie brings Kelly or Arbuckle along with him.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 20, 2025, 04:52:42 PMA rumour has the RedBlacks offering Dinwiddie the GM/HC position, which may be a good enough salary bump to convince him to move. If true, Dru Brown probably would want to stay put unless Dinwiddie brings Kelly or Arbuckle along with him.
I can see that happening, and that would turn their team around.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 20, 2025, 04:52:42 PMA rumour has the RedBlacks offering Dinwiddie the GM/HC position, which may be a good enough salary bump to convince him to move. If true, Dru Brown probably would want to stay put unless Dinwiddie brings Kelly or Arbuckle along with him.
And then MOS and Walters to TO? Closer to home and a new challenge?
Quote from: theaardvark on October 20, 2025, 05:31:29 PMAnd then MOS and Walters to TO? Closer to home and a new challenge?
could see that..nothing lasts forever. I don't think DD would move from Cal given he is already the HC/GM...I would take him in a heartbeat. Maas is going nowhere. Giant no thanks to Dyce.
Jarious?
Tommy Condell?
hoping we can sign Elgersma for next season to start that process.
Quote from: The Zipp on October 20, 2025, 05:54:38 PMcould see that..nothing lasts forever. I don't think DD would move from Cal given he is already the HC/GM...I would take him in a heartbeat. Maas is going nowhere. Giant no thanks to Dyce.
Jarious?
Tommy Condell?
hoping we can sign Elgersma for next season to start that process.
Scary thought, they lost Rigmaiden, lost Goveia, Danny Mac is the only Asst. GM left and he would probably decline the GM job if he had to move away from Florida. The team could survive the loss of MOS easier than Walters right now, but who wants to start over? Both have been in Wpg. for over a decade, can't see them calling Ontario home at this point.
I'll preface this with me not giving up until it's over...glass half full thought is that we are about the go out on the road and try to win 2 games against opponents who are objectively better than us this year. I think the biggest thing going for us is that I'm just not sold on the others being that much better than us, for as bad as we are. Playoffs are any given Sunday (see: the last three Grey Cup games where we lost to opponents who were better than us only on that day). Anyway, if you're going to ask me my actual reasons for why I think we can still win it all this year, I don't really have anything for that.
Going back to the topic though and putting aside the fact we're about to go into the post-season, yeah, this feels like the end of an era. This is obviously upsetting, but not because it's ending - that was going to happen sometime no matter what. The upsetting part is that we are squeaking into the playoffs with no home date for the semi or final and playing bad ball in the year we are HOSTING the Grey Cup, which happens once a decade. We last hosted in 2015 when we finished 3-15 in O'Shea's second season. Since then, we've made the playoffs 9 consecutive years, hosted 1 semi and 3 west finals, appeared in 5 Grey Cup games and won 2. Really? The next time we HOST the game is the year we decide to suck??
And I do mean "decide". Some questionable to baffling decisions in a year where we needed to go all in, from our backup QB selections, OL non-moves, all in on an injury-prone Schoen, a weaker DL by the year, to a green OC (when we also got Jarious Jackson on staff??). It feels like we had the opportunity to shore ourselves up on the heels of appearing in - but losing - three consecutive championship games and make sure this year was the only one that counted and mattered most. Really? This is what we did to close out this golden era we finally got to after a season where we last hosted the grey cup after having missed the playoffs 5 of the 6 previous seasons?
Since we found out we're hosting in 2025, I've always told myself this was the year. Not just to win it all at home in front of the loyal fans, but because it coincided very well with what should be the end of some very deserving vets' careers. Collaros, Neufeld, Stan, and I even thought Bighill and BA had enough in the tank to get to retire here after a home win (turned out to be alright enough decisions to move on, though). I was hoping we would go out with a bang and salute this core of characters we got to cheer on to victories the last near-decade. The way this is happening feels wrong and worse, preventable. I was (and am) totally fine with blowing it up going into 2026, regardless of how glorious or disappointing this era ends. Hoping for the former still, obviously.
Anyway, I'll save those thoughts for what will no doubt be an.....interesting off-season. Right now we are technically still in it. Any given Sunday...
Quote from: blue_or_die on October 20, 2025, 06:28:16 PMWe last hosted in 2015 when we finished 3-15 in O'Shea's second season.
Nit: the Bombers were 5-13 in 2015.
Remember when Calgary lead by Marcus Crandall of all QBs had a losing record and then beat us in the grey cup, and then last year backup Qb beat us when we 'should' have won ya, that could happen again except we upset the teams that 'should' win
Ground n pound a couple of turnovers and it can happen
You can turn a season around on a dime in the CFL. 1988. We backed into a playoff spot, losing our last 3 games. We got somehow got a home game. The situation looked hopeless and fans were really down on the team.Only 12,000 tickets were sold.
We know how that story ended. Until it's over, it's not over.
Quote from: bomb squad on October 20, 2025, 09:23:45 PMYou can turn a season around on a dime in the CFL. 1988. We backed into a playoff spot, losing our last 3 games. We got somehow got a home game. The situation looked hopeless and fans were really down on the team.Only 12,000 tickets were sold.
We know how that story ended. Until it's over, it's not over.
I was one of the 12,000 and the thing I remember most about that team was the offense struggled and the defense and special teams were elite. Does that sound familiar to the 2025 team?
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 20, 2025, 06:27:31 PMScary thought, they lost Rigmaiden, lost Goveia, Danny Mac is the only Asst. GM left and he would probably decline the GM job if he had to move away from Florida. The team could survive the loss of MOS easier than Walters right now, but who wants to start over? Both have been in Wpg. for over a decade, can't see them calling Ontario home at this point.
Lots of ifs here, but if Dinwiddie goes to Ottawa, I can see MOS and KW going back to southern Ontario, and I can still see them calling that home as although they've been here for 10 years, their families - Mom/Dad, aunts/uncles etc still live there. Scary thought is if this does happen, who replaces them, as I'd be beating Ottawa to Dinwiddie and I d have Dinwiddie long before I'd ever consider hiring Dickenson out in Calgary, can't stand that whiner.
Quote from: dd on October 20, 2025, 09:01:15 PMRemember when Calgary lead by Marcus Crandall of all QBs had a losing record and then beat us in the grey cup, and then last year backup Qb beat us when we 'should' have won ya, that could happen again except we upset the teams that 'should' win
Ground n pound a couple of turnovers and it can happen
Yes, I believe Calgary had a record of 8 and 10, but beat us in the GC, we were 14 and 4 that year.
Quote from: peg_city on October 20, 2025, 02:57:28 PMDru Brown's contract is done with Ottawa....
He didn't have a very good year with them, so I'm wondering if we can pull both Brown and Collaros next year (assuming Collaros takes a pay cut).
Dru is signed through next year.
Zach is signed next year with us No terms available
Quote from: dd on October 19, 2025, 05:50:22 PMWe have a quarterback coach right?? If he's doing as you describe, what is jackson doing about it??
Well, they did fix Zach's chronic underthrow (throwing late) problem. It was horrifically bad up until maybe 2-3 games ago. It all finally clicked vs HAM. Even with the crap O in the last 2 games it wasn't due to underthrows. Now he's hitting it just right, or overthrowing.
But that means they id'd the problem and came up with a solution, and I think that solution was to throw a fraction of a second earlier.
Just need to dial it in perfectly, and deep RECs need to stop getting out-run / out-bodied by the DBs! What's up with that?!
Quote from: RebusRankin on October 19, 2025, 06:51:56 PMZach is not playing as well as he once did. The Oline has some issues. The receiving corps needs some upgrades. Our playcalling is awful. Its all those things imo.
Yup. It's really funny, you don't need any of those things to be great or perfect. You just need every last one to be a decent bit better. The gestalt becomes better than the pieces. Other teams are doing it.
Look at SSK's mediocre O on paper -- every unit is playing just that little bit better and it's enough to make the whole O look world-beating, when really they are not. If those sad sacks can do it, why can't we?
Quote from: Tecno on October 21, 2025, 04:26:21 AMYup. It's really funny, you don't need any of those things to be great or perfect. You just need every last one to be a decent bit better. The gestalt becomes better than the pieces. Other teams are doing it.
Look at SSK's mediocre O on paper -- every unit is playing just that little bit better and it's enough to make the whole O look world-beating, when really they are not. If those sad sacks can do it, why can't we?
https://static.cfl.ca/wp-content/uploads/2025-CFL-League-Statistics-Wk20.pdf
Sask O stats are quite a bit better than ours - they are hardly mediocre
They have given up less sacks, passing efficiency is waaaay better, they have a way better record - overall Sask is a far better team than the Bombers. There is no point in denying it...will they win the Grey Cup? Nobody knows for sure.
Quote from: Tecno on October 21, 2025, 04:23:36 AMWell, they did fix Zach's chronic underthrow (throwing late) problem. It was horrifically bad up until maybe 2-3 games ago. It all finally clicked vs HAM. Even with the crap O in the last 2 games it wasn't due to underthrows. Now he's hitting it just right, or overthrowing.
But that means they id'd the problem and came up with a solution, and I think that solution was to throw a fraction of a second earlier.
Just need to dial it in perfectly, and deep RECs need to stop getting out-run / out-bodied by the DBs! What's up with that?!
Need more Oline in the route tree...
Quote from: Tecno on October 21, 2025, 04:23:36 AMWell, they did fix Zach's chronic underthrow (throwing late) problem. It was horrifically bad up until maybe 2-3 games ago. It all finally clicked vs HAM. Even with the crap O in the last 2 games it wasn't due to underthrows. Now he's hitting it just right, or overthrowing.
But that means they id'd the problem and came up with a solution, and I think that solution was to throw a fraction of a second earlier.
Just need to dial it in perfectly, and deep RECs need to stop getting out-run / out-bodied by the DBs! What's up with that?!
I thought this post was sarcasm, Zach can't be quickly adjusted or fixed like a piece of machinery, in the loss to Edmonton he under threw receivers on at least 2 occasions, fortunately one was rescued by Pokey's miraculous TD reception. He's under thrown passes throughout this season in almost every game, it's a problem and he will most likely do it again in the playoffs.
In colder weather I imagine its not gonna get easier to not underthrow receivers.
for some reason we refuse to develop the short quick game. In the last two grey cups it was painfully obvious against a superior dline we are ineffective to say the least
Quote from: Pete on October 21, 2025, 06:05:22 PMIn colder weather I imagine its not gonna get easier to not underthrow receivers.
for some reason we refuse to develop the short quick game.
We identified the short game as a problem in '22. Buck really tried to fix it in '23. We really tried. It was clearly worked on and clearly a bigger part of the game plan to start the season. Then we kind of stopped working on it in '24.
'25 is more of the same. The worst short pass game in the league. We just suck at it. Maybe it's our "play clean" philosophy that makes it impossible. You can't win a screen if you aren't holding to the max.
Maybe someone will prioritize the short game again in '26. Maybe. Or we can just buy a top OL so we can have all day like 2021 and not worry about the short game at all.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 21, 2025, 05:51:39 PMI thought this post was sarcasm, Zach can't be quickly adjusted or fixed like a piece of machinery, in the loss to Edmonton he under threw receivers on at least 2 occasions, fortunately one was rescued by Pokey's miraculous TD reception. He's under thrown passes throughout this season in almost every game, it's a problem and he will most likely do it again in the playoffs.
Dead serious. Every throw was an underthrow in the first half of the season. The last 3 games he's clearly been putting more air and faster timiing on most balls. The fact he still underthrew a couple doesn't negate this.
And yes, Zach is a machine and if you work on him releasing 3/10ths a sec earlier every deep pass then I'm sure he's capable of doing it. In fact, him trying to adjust his timing could be why he's currently inaccurate.
Don't make me go through all the first-half games and count the underthrows vs now!! No home work!
Quote from: The Zipp on October 21, 2025, 03:25:00 PMSask O stats are quite a bit better than ours - they are hardly mediocre
They have given up less sacks, passing efficiency is waaaay better, they have a way better record - overall Sask is a far better team than the Bombers. There is no point in denying it...will they win the Grey Cup? Nobody knows for sure.
You proved my point. They are playing better than they are if you isolate the roster on paper. I'm not denying anything of what you said.
Every unit is playing a bit better than every one of our units, and the end result is the O looks unstoppable. We don't need Zach or OL or REC to suddenly be 10X better, we just need everyone to be 1.3X better. If we can do that, we'll be as good an O as SSK. I think this is what MOS is a) counting on and b) always trying to explain with his philosophizing.
Quote from: Tecno on October 22, 2025, 04:03:20 AMYou proved my point. They are playing better than they are if you isolate the roster on paper. I'm not denying anything of what you said.
Every unit is playing a bit better than every one of our units, and the end result is the O looks unstoppable. We don't need Zach or OL or REC to suddenly be 10X better, we just need everyone to be 1.3X better. If we can do that, we'll be as good an O as SSK. I think this is what MOS is a) counting on and b) always trying to explain with his philosophizing.
He has been posturizing this all season...to be fair he is consistent in his message but the results are lacking - we are in the playoffs but no home game (which will make Wade unhappy)..
The team is not preforming as well as they have in the past - the trends are declining and there is no way that can be denied.