Here are a handful of items that I track and post weekly on my BlueSky account.
The QB drive chart is a results based analysis of drives led by each QB. Historically, 2.00 points per drive, 30 yards per drive & a TD on 20% of drives has been the benchmark for an elite performance. When the start of a drive after a FG was moved from the 35 to the 40 a few years ago there has been a noticeable uptick in overall performances.
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/o9tblzxmg429nkjhjf41l/DC-2025-10.jpg?rlkey=f7tuy679wofg786z8z7puu5gx&st=mvtha69h&raw=1)
Punts from 'own side of centre' generally allows a punter to kick for maximum distance. Net average is key measure in determining how effective a punter (and his coverage team) are performing.
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/at8nt0pg8qqlkfcm7k804/Punt-2025-Own-10.jpg?rlkey=cwtxbgx68yp6ksyo27xs62l62&st=monddx4s&raw=1)
Punt from 'opposition side of centre' require more finesse from a punter. The average often suffers in an an effort to pin the opposition inside the 20 - inside the 10 is better. Punt singles are almost always a failed assignment.
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/seikrvjcqvz4aqmy1ki0n/Punt-2025-Opp-10.jpg?rlkey=e5drp8maq7j6720293aehmpqz&st=ybe5xzlg&raw=1)
QB sneaks are an integral part of an offensive scheme. Success rate on QB sneaks varies from source to source and quite honestly it really depends on what metric you value most. I choose to break down QB sneaks into different situations. I personally value the rightmost two columns on the chart.
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1goh9dmror0udsbxi380f/SYQ-2025-10.jpg?rlkey=ax99zdpyl6s745la7sr57hefd&st=6rbqtfs4&raw=1)
Thanks Junkie. The drives-ending-in-FG reflects MOS's "just get in FG range" philosophy he's had since Meddy joined... and the range capability of our K's.
Great opponent-side-punt stat for Sheahan. No one can say that our main problem / loss-causer this season is punting, eh?
Does anyone have those O-line player rating stats?
I'd like to know who's good and who needs to be replaced.
Telling stats, Strev's / Wilsons numbers are ok
Zach's need a boost
Sheahan's are very good, nobody asking for their bird on this guy, a few of us have the roasting pan ready if you are LOL
Very telling Qb stats. ZC is behind other starting Qb's in ratings, but biggest thing that jumps out at me is over 13% of our drives end in interceptions, and it doesn't matter if its ZC or CS throwing the ball. That's more than double the competition, and a sign of bad schemes, bad execution, or both.
Quote from: dd on August 12, 2025, 01:01:58 AMVery telling Qb stats. ZC is behind other starting Qb's in ratings, but biggest thing that jumps out at me is over 13% of our drives end in interceptions, and it doesn't matter if its ZC or CS throwing the ball. That's more than double the competition, and a sign of bad schemes, bad execution, or both.
It's also a sign of us not having very many O snaps because the O sucks and is off the field all the time. We have half as many yards as most of the good teams, and probably half as many snaps.
Yet we throw the same # (or more) of INTs. Thus drives-ending-in-INT % seems very high.
Both things are a big problem.
Quote from: peg_city on August 11, 2025, 04:39:49 PMDoes anyone have those O-line player rating stats?
I'd like to know who's good and who needs to be replaced.
Pro Football Focus (PFF) is the group that does the player grades for the CFL. Their data is available through www.pff.com (http://www.pff.com/). They have some free content but if you want a complete list of all CFL (and NFL) players you need a subscription.
From time to time, some of the PFF data is presented on cfl.ca. For example, there is usually an article which highlights the top 5 PFF stats (https://www.cfl.ca/2025/08/11/5-pff-stats-that-stand-out-from-week-10/) from the week. Other details can be included in the Honour Roll (https://www.cfl.ca/2025/08/05/honour-roll-week-9-trevor-harris-willie-jefferson-roughriders-o-line-make-the-grade/) or other articles which sometimes lists the top 10 PFF graded players at each position for the week.
PFF grades players based on how well they perform on each play on a scale from -2 to +2. Simply doing the minimum requirement often results in a score of zero. An example of this is a QB completing a short pass regardless of how the play turns out.
Some players (CFL & NFL) have been critical of the grading from PFF arguing that it is impossible to provide an accurate grade if you don't know the play call.
Bryson Vesnaver (TwiXter: @PFF_Bryson) is a good follow for a deeper dive into some PFF grading. For example, last season he posted the video of a punt that resulted in a PFF grade of -1. The play in question had the punter kicking from the opposition 50 yard line. The punt was a line drive that bounced inside the numbers about 20 yards downfield. The ball finally skipped out of bounds near the 15 yard line. PFF only grades the punter on the punt from the time it leaves the foot until it is fielded or hits the ground. Anything that happens after that is on the return and cover teams.
Note: Bryson has acknowledged that PFF grading was developed for American football and that some positions (i.e. kickers) still need to be re-imagined for Canadian football.
Prostats Canada (On TwiXter: @ProstatsC) is another group that provides grades for players (O-Line is not graded). The PSC data is only available on TwiXter and it usually comes out mid-week.
Unlike PFF, PSC bases their grades on the statistics generated by the CFL and they focus more on the results. For example, there was a Jamieson Sheahan punt from last week that Mike O'Shea raved about tonight that netted 60 yards. The returner stepped OB immediately after fielding the ball at the Calgary 8 yard line. PSC would give that a great score whereas PFF would mark it down because it was a low line drive that only went 48 yards in the air.
@Stats Junkie In the Esk/Argos game right now Leake fielded a punt in the endzone and gave up a single. The tracker shows he returned the ball 13 yards.
Do those 13 yards get included in his return average?
I guess my broader question is, when are endzone yards included in player stats?
Quote from: gobombersgo on August 16, 2025, 02:26:21 AMDo those 13 yards get included in his return average?
That's bizarre. Wouldn't think that would count.
Maybe they counted his horizontal yards, LOL
Quote from: gobombersgo on August 16, 2025, 02:26:21 AM@Stats Junkie In the Esk/Argos game right now Leake fielded a punt in the endzone and gave up a single. The tracker shows he returned the ball 13 yards.
Do those 13 yards get included in his return average?
I guess my broader question is, when are endzone yards included in player stats?
There are 3 different scenarios to be addressed and we saw all 3 in this game.
Scenario 1Play 69 TOR E52 3/3 00:35 (00:35) #29 J.Haggerty punt 69 yards to the EDM-17 #22 J.Leake return 13 yards to the EDM-04 (#49 J.Herdman-Reed) SINGLE, clock 00:21.
If the returner makes a concerted effort to advance the ball, the return is scored and yards accrue - in this case it was a 13 yard return. Anytime the returner is rouged (tackled) for a single the return should count.
Scenario 2Play 112 EDM E45 11:17 (11:17) #26 V.Blanchard kickoff 75 yards to the TOR-10 #3 J.Grant return 0 yards to the TOR-10 SINGLE, clock 11:15.
If the returner takes a knee without attempting to advance the ball then there will be no return charged to the returner for 0 yards. The play-by-play shows a 0 yard return but it did not accrue in the stats.
Scenario 3Play 131 EDM T36 3/21 02:55 (02:55) #26 V.Blanchard field goal attempt from 43 yards NO GOOD (H: #14 C.Snyder, LS: #52 L.Burton-Krahn), clock 02:49 recovered by TOR #3 J.Grant at TOR-19 #3 J.Grant return 4 yards to the TOR-15, End Of Play SINGLE, clock 02:49.
This scenario falls into the grey zone. On this play, a return of 4 yards was credited to Janarion Grant because he moved from the point of recovery before taking a knee. There are other times that this play could result in no return being credited as Grant gave himself up without a tackle.
Historically, this play would always result in a return being scored as he moved from the point of recovery. CFL statistician Steve Daniel hates charging a returner with a negative return so there are situations when a returner runs around a bit before taking a knee or running out of bounds and it is ruled as no return. Steve had the rule modified at some point to create this grey area.
Then if a returner is keen on padding his total YDS stats, he should always run up as much as he can, within the EZ, before taking the knee!
And if a returner is more keen on padding his AVG return stats, he should always take a knee instantly.
LOL.
If I'm a KR, I'm taking the instant knee, as an under-19Y return probably lowers their AVG? Certainly on KOs...
Thanks
@Stats Junkie, that's some great info.
Quote from: Stats Junkie on August 16, 2025, 04:33:12 AMScenario 3
Play 131 EDM T36 3/21 02:55 (02:55) #26 V.Blanchard field goal attempt from 43 yards NO GOOD (H: #14 C.Snyder, LS: #52 L.Burton-Krahn), clock 02:49 recovered by TOR #3 J.Grant at TOR-19 #3 J.Grant return 4 yards to the TOR-15, End Of Play SINGLE, clock 02:49.
This scenario falls into the grey zone. On this play, a return of 4 yards was credited to Janarion Grant because he moved from the point of recovery before taking a knee. There are other times that this play could result in no return being credited as Grant gave himself up without a tackle.
Here is a play from today's Hamilton-Saskatchewan game that was scored the second way.
82 SSK H34 3/14 09:58 (09:58) #12 B.Lauther field goal attempt from 42 yards NO GOOD (H: #70 J.Couch, LS: #46 J.Hus), clock 09:53 recovered by HAM #23 Q.White at HAM-05 SINGLE, clock 09:53
Hamilton 23 Q.White fielded the ball at the -8 yard line, took a few steps, then took a knee at the -3. The play-by-play shows that he fielded the ball at the -5 with the play ending at that point (no return). I hate the inconsistency.
Seems like it was the perfect time to ask your question
@gobombersgo
Individual penalties for Winnipeg Blue Bombers (unofficial)
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/uvrc5ep7pxr8mtggz8r6x/PEN-WBB-11.jpg?rlkey=uiprd201khamk4yp9rsrlepxr&st=d4u3zpak&raw=1)
* the CFL default for an illegal kickoff is a 10 yards penalty (changed recently). I count the full distance of the penalty - the way it used to be.
Other penalties details:
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/chrgbgbip6zyhoht7s7eu/Penalties-2025-11.jpg?rlkey=4lj7200t967pyzoiapv2y3tdy&st=vdmuh4eh&raw=1)
- Edmonton has 0 misconduct penalties
- Andrew Chatfield (TOR) has taken 10 penalties
- Trevaughn Campbell (SSK) leads with 106 penalty yards
- Robert Priester (OTT) with 5 deadball penalties
- 6 players tied with 3 pre-snap penalties (Gabe Wallace)
- 7 players tied with 2 misconduct penalties (Willie Jefferson)
Tony Jones leads the team with 60 tackles. Ties for team lead with 3 sacks.
Griffin is next with 30 tackles.
Smith, Ayres, and CAD all with 10 STs.
Jon Jones has no stats the last two games.
BO20. 413 yards rushing. Any chance he doesn't a 1000 this season.
BO20. 82/413
Patterson. 49/249
Quote from: Pigskin on August 18, 2025, 08:58:12 PMTony Jones leads the team with 60 tackles. Ties for team lead with 3 sacks.
Griffin is next with 30 tackles.
Smith, Ayres, and CAD all with 10 STs.
Jon Jones has no stats the last two games.
BO20. 413 yards rushing. Any chance he doesn't a 1000 this season.
BO20. 82/413
Patterson. 49/249
Amazing considering Griffin hasn't played a set position except for the last 2 games. The defence is starting to get it together, if they can maintain a strong pass rush and eliminate secondary busts they could become a dominant factor in the outcome of games.
Quote from: Stats Junkie on August 18, 2025, 07:37:03 PMIndividual penalties for Winnipeg Blue Bombers (unofficial)
Amazing how low the penalty YDS is for our DBs. That means we're not giving them freebie 60Y DPIs or anything. Good.
@Stats Junkie Is Zach's interception on the 2 point play supposed to be recorded as an INT against him?
Quote from: gobombersgo on September 01, 2025, 02:36:15 AM@Stats Junkie Is Zach's interception on the 2 point play supposed to be recorded as an INT against him?
Yes, individual stats accrue on a 2-point convert attempt.
Collaros was 0/1 and an INT
Schoen was charged with a target
Campbell got credit with a 112 yard interception return & 2 points
Oddly enough, the interception on the C2 attempt is not a team turnover as Winnipeg retained possession for the ensuing kickoff.
Updated numbers - after week 14
QB drive results
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/orz89kmc43x2zyll4web1/DC-2025-14.jpg?rlkey=c0d7dpn9c54mihrm0pqjp5yxz&st=2q3wujeb&raw=1)
Punts from own side of centre
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/psifn6td3hqu97nu21w0h/Punt-2025-Own-14.jpg?rlkey=by0nt0p2i6832inwklhxyewd7&st=cd57tv5z&raw=1)
Punts from opposition side of centre
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/v6gfv012r7wpi4pnysy1j/Punt-2025-Opp-14.jpg?rlkey=36o94zeai3isynxtrs1jt1vnr&st=lbvnu8d4&raw=1)
QB Sneaks
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/aoyu9a1b64hu9n0n09a45/SYQ-2025-14.jpg?rlkey=usxuu4qu7g7gt540s3kayfbp8&st=8w4tfmbq&raw=1)
2-point converts - Run the ball!
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/k21h7pu54a5yox1quw2fb/2-pt-14.jpg?rlkey=ccrtruio976aann0jtozm1ss0&st=qrqyvzsi&raw=1)
Punt Returns - caught vs bounced
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/cspb7ig8kytrlkn30fc9z/PR-14.jpg?rlkey=86424kglya2ovxv96lj5l9eyk&st=sefdy8fv&raw=1)
This one is something new I have been tracking in 2025. I think it shows the value of attacking the ball to catch it in the air versus letting it bounce. By letting it bounce, the return often starts closer to the goal line and the return itself is shorter, on average.
* These numbers are far from official. I have adjusted some punt & return details which I believe better reflect what happened on the field.
Strevy has 1 completion in the 1st half of the Ottawa game.
@Stats Junkie has a QB ever played a half of game without completing a pass?
Quote from: gobombersgo on September 20, 2025, 08:20:47 PMStrevy has 1 completion in the 1st half of the Ottawa game.
@Stats Junkie has a QB ever played a half of game without completing a pass?
One of things that probably used to happen all of the time.
Quote from: gobombersgo on September 20, 2025, 08:20:47 PMStrevy has 1 completion in the 1st half of the Ottawa game.
@Stats Junkie has a QB ever played a half of game without completing a pass?
'Ever' is a long time.
Sammy Garza went 0/7 in a start in 1992.
QBs like Dick Thronton, Buddy Leake and even Kenny Ploen had games with 1 or 2 completions.
Go back even further and you will find games with 0 completions.
0 completions in a loss shouldn't be that tough.
3 completions in a win against 28 completions...
Sheahan good game for his stats I think
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 21, 2025, 12:23:40 AMSheahan good game for his stats I think
They better have because according to the stats posted above:
Opposition side of centre: Sheahan ranks 4th best in Net CFL average.
Own side of centre: Sheahan ranks 6th best in Net CFL average.
Yikes that's some really average stats when we got nine teams and that's the big ol' category you say he excels at.
Say what you want about Sheahan, that mile-high punt today was a thing of beauty. Messed with the returner so much he couldn't make the catch.
That's a new "tool in the toolbox" we haven't seen yet. I would have loved to have been there to see how high it went. It hung up there FOREVER.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on September 21, 2025, 12:32:30 AMThey better have because according to the stats posted above:
Opposition side of centre: Sheahan ranks 4th best in Net CFL average.
Own side of centre: Sheahan ranks 6th best in Net CFL average.
Yikes that's some really average stats when we got nine teams and that's the big ol' category you say he excels at.
Some wanted him cut. That was wrong. I have been very impressed with his punting and his net is overall above average imo. I believe I said his net would be above average, excelling at it would indicate near top of the league which I never said. I am very happy with our punting in general this year.
Updated stats would tell the story. He is better at pinning teams deep which I like.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 21, 2025, 01:39:33 AMSay what you want about Sheahan, that mile-high punt today was a thing of beauty. Messed with the returner so much he couldn't make the catch.
That's a new "tool in the toolbox" we haven't seen yet. I would have loved to have been there to see how high it went. It hung up there FOREVER.
Loved that kick. Announcers were even surprised and so was Ottawa.
An outstanding game kicking and he helped us win. He is nothing but consistent. Not a top kicker but not as bad as some say.
Bomber brass made a good decision on him. Pillar of strength and consistency for us.
People don't see a big leg so they pile on. More than one way to skin a cat.
not sure how easy it would be to do this but i would be very interested to see total first downs by quarter for the season to date. i know there have been a number in the 1-3 range which is really terrible.
Quote from: Blueforlife on September 21, 2025, 03:41:48 AMSome wanted him cut. That was wrong. I have been very impressed with his punting and his net is overall above average imo. I believe I said his net would be above average, excelling at it would indicate near top of the league which I never said. I am very happy with our punting in general this year.
Updated stats would tell the story. He is better at pinning teams deep which I like.
Loved that kick. Announcers were even surprised and so was Ottawa.
An outstanding game kicking and he helped us win. He is nothing but consistent. Not a top kicker but not as bad as some say.
Bomber brass made a good decision on him. Pillar of strength and consistency for us.
People don't see a big leg so they pile on. More than one way to skin a cat.
I hope that Techno and you realize that the punt that you're referring to was an onside punt. The Bombers lined up differently for it. When Sheahan did kick it (a mile high), there were two Bombers on either side of him but behind him (onside position). So, I think the plan was for the towering, relatively short punt was to allow one of those players to get under it and catch it....for a first down for us. Unfortunately, that didn't occur but the Ottawa returner did have trouble with it and we almost got it as a result.
Quote from: Slimy Sculpin on September 21, 2025, 05:17:02 PMI hope that Techno and you realize that the punt that you're referring to was an onside punt. The Bombers lined up differently for it. When Sheahan did kick it (a mile high), there were two Bombers on either side of him but behind him (onside position). So, I think the plan was for the towering, relatively short punt was to allow one of those players to get under it and catch it....for a first down for us. Unfortunately, that didn't occur but the Ottawa returner did have trouble with it and we almost got it as a result.
I didn't realize that but makes sense. Thanks bud. Techno what's your take?
Quote from: Slimy Sculpin on September 21, 2025, 05:17:02 PMI hope that Techno and you realize that the punt that you're referring to was an onside punt. The Bombers lined up differently for it. When Sheahan did kick it (a mile high), there were two Bombers on either side of him but behind him (onside position). So, I think the plan was for the towering, relatively short punt was to allow one of those players to get under it and catch it....for a first down for us. Unfortunately, that didn't occur but the Ottawa returner did have trouble with it and we almost got it as a result.
I'd have to watch it again, but when I saw the play it did look like the Bombers were close to 5 yard halo.
It makes sense if those players were on side and that they dodnt have to back away when the ball bounced.
Quote from: Stats Junkie on September 20, 2025, 08:35:21 PM'Ever' is a long time.
Sammy Garza went 0/7 in a start in 1992.
QBs like Dick Thronton, Buddy Leake and even Kenny Ploen had games with 1 or 2 completions.
Go back even further and you will find games with 0 completions.
Was dat back when football was called rugby?
All I want to know is who pulled the 1920's offensive game plan out of the archives?
Quote from: gobombersgo on September 21, 2025, 05:53:32 PMI'd have to watch it again, but when I saw the play it did look like the Bombers were close to 5 yard halo.
It makes sense if those players were on side and that they dodnt have to back away when the ball bounced.
Good catch, Slimy. Yup, 2 "personal protectors" were beside/behind Sheahan instead of in their normal place. I did not notice the first time, though it's obvious now you mention it! I think we now expect so little trickery from MOS/WFC that something like this is a bit of a surprise.
Yes, gobombersgo, the one guy who was closest to the halo was an on-side guy, so it wouldn't have been a flag. However, I don't think he was within 5 in any case. In fact, he was 5Y
downfield from the ball. Maybe Sheahan put a little too much air on it! That would have been epic had he caught it or blown up (legally) the returner.
End of season QB drive results
1.83 points per drive is the highest in CFL history. The previous record was 1.82 points per drive in 2024.
Points per drive is up ~ 14% since 2022 when the CFL moved the ball spot after a FG & single to the 40 yard line and the kickoff spot to the 30 yard line.
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/rglp74pjkc6mwupdj5npa/DC-2025-21.jpg?rlkey=s2drnq0smdtwgt0by32j8h1vz&st=h7e5se2a&raw=1)
Here is how teams fared defensively on a per drive basis
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/txysidpag14fxcbuqodkt/Defence-DC-21.jpg?rlkey=o0xqqt3biaqgorfl306v4h1os&st=5ee8goz1&raw=1)
QB sneak results
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/j7vdjkfixrjpr578z3sv1/SYQ-2025-21.jpg?rlkey=c7ohaq5g2zo655iyk96eobnc8&st=8r2g1q24&raw=1)
With Strev out, good to see Wilson is 100% on 3rd down SY, which is the most important SY stat to me. I couldn't care less about 2nd down, or how far it is. Just convert that 3rd down when asked to. It's up to the HC to know the limit.
That said, our SY was pretty iffy & weak the last 2 weeks. A lot of "moments", and hoggies weren't properly doing their job.
Special Teams
Punts from 'Own side of centre'
- Kick for distance - net average > gross average
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/hybkjuw6vcvyped88zq9z/Punt-2025-Own-21.jpg?rlkey=a107e2b4d5tv0ik8i1ruqbj5u&st=1dpautsp&raw=1)
Punts from 'Opposition side of centre'
- Sacrifice distance for placement inside the 20 (10 is better)
- Punt singles are a missed assignment
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5c8veg0ypnpoe2gdwwnxe/Punt-2025-Opp-21.jpg?rlkey=pzq8gk4aeox2egsim6zkicdtp&st=lcrztvl8&raw=1)
FG accuracy - does the hash mark make a difference?
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/r3epn6kfw1r21bsrfe99c/FG-Hash.jpg?rlkey=rgv5pmwplqghi50idfsfsi85u&st=g88p63vg&raw=1)
FG accuracy - FG Battery (Long Snapper, Holder, Kicker)
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/x1znpfkui1z5huctkq80z/FG-Battery.jpg?rlkey=99v5vs4ww6zyycf2jt2gly0vj&st=khmxi4gb&raw=1)
Individual Penalties
3 least penalized teams were Winnipeg, Hamilton & Montreal
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/p7yy7u8jvz4ohil4z8m26/PEN-WHM.jpg?rlkey=rpn7exonw5g4xxmxm8nm2l57r&st=m99hyx8o&raw=1)
DBF - Deadball Foul (any penalty applied after the play)
Misc - Misconduct Fouls
Dec - Declined Penalties