Blue Bombers Forum

 8)

All equally bad seems to be the best option

all

This was a tough one, but I voted CB (which I assume you mean "DB"/entire secondary).

Probably taking more heat than they deserve though because we're often used to our offense having periods of stagnancy and then having our D bail us out. This was especially true as they consistently limited big gains and explosion plays but now those seem to be happening on the reg and we are getting blown out.

Some combination of bad OL play, Zach poor decision-making and lack of talent in the receiving core is not to be dismissed as a major problem, though. That one hurts my brain to think about though so I'll pick on Younger's secondary.

As I type this, maybe I should have just selected coaching...

Very interesting results, I think a week ago more would have picked DL.  Things can change pretty quick.  Thanks to all that have voted.  Really telling and a little concerning that we have a bunch of issues all at once.  All about controlling the LOS for me.  I think our DL will be fine once we get Woods back.  OL is a big question mark.  Get that unit cooking and Brady will bully again.  It's the engine that drive this club and also protects our #1 asset.

This feels like the end of the best bomber years since the 80s. This team doesn't have one issue or two. They have a bunch of issues. Last season, the losses were close. This season, we are losing badly.

The only bright spots are our RB and kicker.


Offense:

I hate to say it, but Collaros making 600K a season is an issue. He isn't worth 600K and hasn't been in 2 seasons.

Zach can't will us to a win anymore. Strev will never be able to. Our O-line is average. Our receiving core is below average with Shoen out.


Defense:

Our D-line is okay, our line backers are okay and our secondary is awful.

This feels like a leadership issue. On paper our defense isn't much different. And yet, we can't tackle, we can't get pressure and our secondary can't keep up.

I've written them off this season, unless we bring in some fresh talent.

I would have to say Coaching because all areas are bad and the Coaches pick the players and coach them to their systems. You could argue don't have any strong positions of the ones listed...

If I were ranking them in order of significance it's the quarterback, defensive line, offensive line, secondary, and offensive coordinator in that order.

All

Quote from: peg_city on July 28, 2025, 08:57:18 PMThis feels like the end of the best bomber years since the 80s. This team doesn't have one issue or two. They have a bunch of issues. Last season, the losses were close. This season, we are losing badly.

The only bright spots are our RB and kicker.


Offense:

I hate to say it, but Collaros making 600K a season is an issue. He isn't worth 600K and hasn't been in 2 seasons.

Zach can't will us to a win anymore. Strev will never be able to. Our O-line is average. Our receiving core is below average with Shoen out.


Defense:

Our D-line is okay, our line backers are okay and our secondary is awful.

This feels like a leadership issue. On paper our defense isn't much different. And yet, we can't tackle, we can't get pressure and our secondary can't keep up.

I've written them off this season, unless we bring in some fresh talent.

Very good post and agree 100%. I am hopeful we can turn it around and be competitive, but as for playing the GC, that is nothing but a dream this season. We don't have anywhere near the horses at a number of positions.

All. If the DL doesn't get pressure the secondary will suffer. Injuries on the OL and not great receivers beyond Demski. The coaches aren't helping but our execution is awful. Penalties and blown assignments for a multitude of reasons.

Instantly I say "DB / OL".  I picked OL, why?  Because if we had a top-3 OL and maybe 1 other decent REC, then our O could put up points to match the crap the CBs are doing.

Kind of like the HAM/BC game.  The Ds were pretty ugly, giving up big plays and long drives, but the O's both were scoring big to keep everything close.

Big Stan needs to play, Lofton needs to play, pick your fave of Van/Ran to be LG and go back to our amazing Eli/Wallace jumbo.  Boom, we're a top-3 OL again.  Then buy the best LT in FA.  Maybe Neuf retires, FA a top RG.  Problem solved.

Oh ya, and fixing our OL also improves our lackluster run game...

Yes, it's all OL right now.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 29, 2025, 05:53:07 AMInstantly I say "DB / OL".  I picked OL, why?  Because if we had a top-3 OL and maybe 1 other decent REC, then our O could put up points to match the crap the CBs are doing.

Kind of like the HAM/BC game.  The Ds were pretty ugly, giving up big plays and long drives, but the O's both were scoring big to keep everything close.

Big Stan needs to play, Lofton needs to play, pick your fave of Van/Ran to be LG and go back to our amazing Eli/Wallace jumbo.  Boom, we're a top-3 OL again.  Then buy the best LT in FA.  Maybe Neuf retires, FA a top RG.  Problem solved.

Oh ya, and fixing our OL also improves our lackluster run game...

Yes, it's all OL right now.

But therein lies the root. How do you suggest we get a top three offensive line when every year we lose a pretty good piece to free agency because we can't afford them? Why can't we afford them? Because the money is going elsewhere. Is elsewhere delivering? The answer this year is no. There's the real problem then.

Don't make Lofton into a savior. He's been a mid PFF ranked player for most of his career and there were lots of people in TC looking for an upgrade there. I'd rather continue developing Randall over Lofton and the difference won't be significant. Bryant will help in the sense we can probably get Vanterpool back at guard where he was super good. Assuming Bryant (who really hasn't had a great game all season) can eke out a bit above average which is an assumption that is by no means guaranteed.

The following players need to be purged from the Bombers:

Neufeld - constantly getting embarrassed
Bryant - getting beat consistently
Bridges - gives up a lot of explosion plays
Bonds - can't cover
Collaros - past his prime, not worth the money (get Fajardo if possible), unless Elfersma comes back from the NFL
Jefferson - not producing for the last couple of years.

IMO the real problem is hoping to get one more season out of former great players who are well past their prime. We managed to get away with it last year, but we should have known then, that we couldn't do it forever. 

Quote from: Horseman on July 29, 2025, 02:22:11 PMThe following players need to be purged from the Bombers:

Neufeld - constantly getting embarrassed
Bryant - getting beat consistently
Bridges - gives up a lot of explosion plays
Bonds - can't cover
Collaros - past his prime, not worth the money (get Fajardo if possible), unless Elfersma comes back from the NFL
Jefferson - not producing for the last couple of years.

Thomas
Kramdi
T.Jones
Can also be backups and the last two special team only.  They are not prime time players.  Solid back ups used only in an emergency.

OK, so we know the secondary has been bad. We're used to kicking butt in passing yards against, and we're currently bottom half there. But how the heck are we still leading in Opp Comp %?  Only 62% of passes get completed on us, that's a pretty good number!

I guess this shows it really is breakdowns on the odd big play that is killing us.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 28, 2025, 10:00:17 PMIf I were ranking them in order of significance it's the quarterback, defensive line, offensive line, secondary, and offensive coordinator in that order.

OL
CB
OC
DL
QB
Receiver

Quote from: Horseman on July 29, 2025, 02:22:11 PMThe following players need to be purged from the Bombers:

Neufeld - constantly getting embarrassed
Bryant - getting beat consistently
Bridges - gives up a lot of explosion plays
Bonds - can't cover
Collaros - past his prime, not worth the money (get Fajardo if possible), unless Elfersma comes back from the NFL
Jefferson - not producing for the last couple of years.

Absolutely none of these guys should be gone this season
Bridges as a backup is the only one that we might have to consider  imo
The rest of key contributors to this ball club and while are old are not nearly as bad as you suggest imo
It's Taylor Elgersma
Hard stop no on Cody
Willie had a good year last year, need to be better this year
Bonds can cover and was part of a very good defense last year, has been fine this year
OL are not what they used to be but still solid but at the end of their rope, as a unit we are average when healthy and could improve by year end, been a bad few weeks yes

Quote from: Strevy on July 29, 2025, 02:30:16 PMThomas
Kramdi
T.Jones
Can also be backups and the last two special team only.  They are not prime time players.  Solid back ups used only in an emergency.

Thomas is a good rotational DL who is good against the run.  Sun is setting but still one season left.  Hopefully Lawson progresses and we get Woods back.
Kramdi/Jones is a very good LB, your take is as off base as it gets here

How can anybody be considered as good against the run when he has 3 DT's in 6 games. Noting that is his worst per game average since 2014 when he became a regular on defence. No sacks, no TFL and no int's.

The sun set before the start of the season. Good is based on performance.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 29, 2025, 04:35:25 PMHow can anybody be considered as good against the run when he has 3 DT's in 6 games. Noting that is his worst per game average since 2014 when he became a regular on defence. No sacks, no TFL and no int's.

The sun set before the start of the season. Good is based on performance.

He is a big body, fills the gaps and has been traditionally rotated mostly on run plays.  His size helps attract a double team on occasion.  His stats will decline this year but don't tell the entire story.  I believe if Lawson can progress and we get healthy on the DL we will have better balance.  Person coming on, the least of my worries is our DL and Thomas brings consistency in the reps he takes.  Comparing his long term stats this early in the season isn't fair.  See how it shakes out at year end.  Sample size too small imo to make any conclusions.
We know your stance on Thomas and we know mine.  Time to move on.  We are both a broken record on this one on repeat.  The truth likely lies in the middle of our two opinions.

Quote from: Blueforlife on July 29, 2025, 05:52:02 PMHe is a big body, fills the gaps and has been traditionally rotated mostly on run plays.  His size helps attract a double team on occasion.  His stats will decline this year but don't tell the entire story.  I believe if Lawson can progress and we get healthy on the DL we will have better balance.  Person coming on, the least of my worries is our DL and Thomas brings consistency in the reps he takes.  Comparing his long term stats this early in the season isn't fair.  See how it shakes out at year end.  Sample size too small imo to make any conclusions.
We know your stance on Thomas and we know mine.  Time to move on.  We are both a broken record on this one on repeat.  The truth likely lies in the middle of our two opinions.

A big body isn't filling gaps if he's not involved in making tackles and the RB is often running through his gap? That's not an opinion, it's an observation over many games.  Small sample size? You're kidding right? Game 6 is a 1/3 of the season.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 29, 2025, 06:02:23 PMA big body isn't filling gaps if he's not involved in making tackles. Have you ever coached defence?

I am done debating the topic as previously mentioned. It's clear we don't see eye to eye on the topic.   I have seen this attitude on here before, calling someone out on their opinion because of their lack of experience playing or coaching football and it shows a real lack of respect for this place.  If you can't be respectful and reasonable please just ignore what I post. 

This place is great because it's inclusive.  We welcome people from all backgrounds and variety of football based knowledge.  You don't have to have played, coached or managed a football team to have an opinion on here. 

If you want to talk more about Thomas, others will engage with you and there is a thread on the topic.

Quote from: Blueforlife on July 29, 2025, 06:07:40 PMI am done debating the topic as previously mentioned. It's clear we don't see eye to eye on the topic.   I have seen this attitude on here before, calling someone out on their opinion because of their lack of experience playing or coaching football and it shows a real lack of respect for this place.  If you can't be respectful and reasonable please just ignore what I post. 

This place is great because it's inclusive.  We welcome people from all backgrounds and variety of football based knowledge.  You don't have to have played, coached or managed a football team to have an opinion on here. 

If you want to talk more about Thomas, others will engage with you and there is a thread on the topic.

Nah. You already said if you post on a forum expect to be challenged. You don't have to respond to my challenges. As I said there is a difference between an opinion and an observation if you don't back up it up. I'd call it denial of what your eyes are seeing and stats are telling you.

I'll continue to call you out on blind faith opinions.

BTW I was adding another sentence on my previous comment.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 29, 2025, 06:14:30 PMNah. You already said if you post on a forum expect to be challenged. You don't have to respond to my challenges. As I said there is a difference between an opinion and an observation if you don't back up it up. I'd call it denial of what your eyes are seeing and stats are telling you.

I'll continue to call you out on blind faith opinions.

My opinion on Thomas is well documented above and on the previous thread.  You are more interested in trying to one up than anything and I don't appreciate trying to play the I know more about football than you do card (coaching reference).  I believe we have both presented our opinions and arguments on the topic and it's time to move on please.  There is no value in continuing our debate when we are both at different sides of the argument and have already presented our positons.

It's not about blind faith.  There is no denial.  I have presented my opinion about Thomas and so have you.  No need to take shots at me.  I have lots of opinions and observations, doesn't mean I'm right but neither are you all the time. 

Calling people out and debating is healthy for this place.  Beating a dead horse on topic that has already run its course isn't.  Let's continue our debates on here yes.  Let's move on regarding Thomas please.  We covered the bases here.  Agree to disagree.  We both have made some good points regarding him.  Perhaps revist at the end of the year.

Funny that you took the have you have ever coached defense part out now.  Very telling.

I am trying to keep the peace on here and making the mods jobs easier.  Nobody wants to see the back and forth like this.

Quote from: Blueforlife on July 29, 2025, 06:17:40 PMMy opinion on Thomas is well documented above and on the previous thread.  You are more interested in trying to one up than anything and I don't appreciate trying to play the I know more about football than you do card (coaching reference).  I believe we have both presented our opinions and arguments on the topic and it's time to move on please.  There is no value in continuing our debate when we are both at different sides of the argument and have already presented our positons.

It's not about blind faith.  There is no denial.  I have presented my opinion about Thomas and so have you. 

It's your topic string about the biggest issues. There are more than one as has been discussed. Within each group the parameter is narrowed. On the DL Thomas is the weakest link so you have to be able to expect feedback.

An opinion is based on several things but specifics like coaching or playing are part of an education regarding a subject so it's a fair question. I note that you didn't answer the question. I suppose knowing actual football players would also count if you engaged in those sorts of discussions with them.

Many on the forum have done those things and bring a different understanding and more clearly define their " opinion ".

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 29, 2025, 06:27:41 PMIt's your topic string about the biggest issues. There are more than one as has been discussed. Within each group the parameter is narrowed. On the DL Thomas is the weakest link so you have to be able to expect feedback.

An opinion is based on several things but specifics like coaching or playing are part of an education regarding a subject so it's a fair question. I note that you didn't answer the question. I suppose knowing actual football players would also count if you engaged in those sorts of discussions with them.

Many on the forum have done those things and bring a different understanding and more clearly define their " opinion ".

No need to make it personal and one doesn't need to know football players to have an opinion on here.  Everyone's input should be welcome and valued on here.  Brand new to the game to pro baller.  Discuss the DL as you would like, yes a good thread to do it.  I am not interested in debating Thomas with you any longer.  Thanks for understanding why.  I have already presented my opinion on here enough about Thomas for many years and in much detail recently.  You and others are understating the amount of info I provide behind my comments imo.

I value everyone on here, I value the diversity of this place.  The variety of opinions, background, posting styles, etc is what makes it great.  I don't value or validate forum members based on the length of their football resume.  We are all armchair QBs.  I do appreciate the senior members of this forum including yourself for your insights this great league.

Quote from: Blueforlife on July 29, 2025, 06:30:39 PMNo need to make it personal and one doesn't need to know football players to have an opinion on here.

I thought you weren't going to respond. BTW it's not personal. I challenge many posters on here to see how they arrive at their opinion.

If a poster says he thinks Streveler is going into the hall of fame as a QB. That's an opinion and you can believe I'm going to ask why / how he came to that conclusion.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 29, 2025, 06:33:35 PMI thought you weren't going to respond. BTW it's not personal. I challenge many posters on here to see how they arrive at their opinion.

If a poster says he thinks Streveler is going into the hall of fame as a QB. That's an opinion and you can believe I'm going to ask why / how he came to that conclusion.

Thanks, I'll try not to take it personal and keep it up with the challenging, you do bring balance.  I was done debating Thomas.  As long as this place is alive, both of us will continue to debate.  Let's rain check the Thomas talk for early winter.

Back to our regular scheduled program....

Interesting OL and CB are now in the lead on the poll.  Which agrees with my take.

It's all TBD but we could see as many 3 changes on the OL this week. Bryant and Lofton could be back. Vanterpool could be back at LG.

Obviously one or all of those would help improve this issue. Fingers are crossed we get some healthy players back.

D. Lawson added today. I can't see him added immediately but we may be forced into some change due to injuries. There are several possibilities mentioned but I lean towards Allen at safety and Parker at CB. However that's a decision based on injuries which we might have.

LOL. There could be 6 or so possible combinations of changes in the secondary. Somebody spin the wheel of choice cause I don't know how this will work out. No practice, short week and little help from daily IR reports.

Whether we want to get rid of Collaros or not, he's here for another year and I can't imagine O'shea is going to get rid of him.

I'm hoping for a UFL fold, so we can get a few QBs here.

Quote from: peg_city on July 29, 2025, 09:13:23 PMWhether we want to get rid of Collaros or not, he's here for another year and I can't imagine O'shea is going to get rid of him.

I'm hoping for a UFL fold, so we can get a few QBs here.

I don't imagine the USFL folding would help the QB situation. Not very many up and coming QB's there. More re-treads than anything else.

If that league does fold we might get a few more players getting chances in TC like receiver or DL.

Do you have a QB in mind that plays there?

Quote from: peg_city on July 29, 2025, 09:13:23 PMWhether we want to get rid of Collaros or not, he's here for another year and I can't imagine O'shea is going to get rid of him.

I'm hoping for a UFL fold, so we can get a few QBs here.

You're right, he's here for a year.

I'd see if we could get Fajardo over from Edmonton in the off season. Can't imagine he'd like to stick around that gong show, and coming here would be a breath of fresh air for him. I think he'll be better than any USFL Qb, and better than anything else on the FA market. I know some posters don't like him from his Rider days, but heck, Zack was a Rider!!!

Quote from: dd on July 29, 2025, 09:49:29 PMYou're right, he's here for a year.

I'd see if we could get Fajardo over from Edmonton in the off season. Can't imagine he'd like to stick around that gong show, and coming here would be a breath of fresh air for him. I think he'll be better than any USFL Qb, and better than anything else on the FA market. I know some posters don't like him from his Rider days, but heck, Zack was a Rider!!!

People need to stop suggesting old retreads from losing teams expecting them to be better than what we already have.

Did you see fajardo pass this past weekend and did you see Zack play?? I m done paying $600 k for that .

Get a decent qb that can read defenses, who won a grey cup when he got there vs stink the joint out . Fajardo will likely play himself back to #1 status and will blow the doors off stats coming out of our clubhouse, Fajardo Qb rating is 132, Collaros 89 you got any bright ideas where we're going to dig up our next starter and don't say it's Wilson or strev puuuleeease!!

Quote from: peg_city on July 29, 2025, 09:13:23 PMWhether we want to get rid of Collaros or not, he's here for another year and I can't imagine O'shea is going to get rid of him.

I'm hoping for a UFL fold, so we can get a few QBs here.

The only way Collaros is not here is if he decides his health isn't worth sacrificing for another year. Which is't far fetched.
 Doesn't leave us with a lot of viable alternatives

We parted ways with biggie, we parted ways with Andrew Harris, we parted ways with Alexander, next season it's time

Zach's numbers will be better than Cody's by year end imo.  Assuming he can get healthy.

Quote from: Blueforlife on July 29, 2025, 04:03:02 PMAbsolutely none of these guys should be gone this season
Bridges as a backup is the only one that we might have to consider  imo
The rest of key contributors to this ball club and while are old are not nearly as bad as you suggest imo
It's Taylor Elgersma
Hard stop no on Cody
Willie had a good year last year, need to be better this year
Bonds can cover and was part of a very good defense last year, has been fine this year
OL are not what they used to be but still solid but at the end of their rope, as a unit we are average when healthy and could improve by year end, been a bad few weeks yes

This is why if we don't move on from these aged out vets and poor DB's we will not be challenging for top spot in the west next year. The players I mentioned that should be purged is for next year, can't make these changes now. Collaros has not been good for the last 2 years and now appears to be injured again. We must get his replacement starting for next year. The only viable starter that maybe available is Fajardo. The man plays with heart and can scramble when needed, I don't like him either but unless Elgersma comes back from his NFL stint, Fajardo is the only option I can see moving forward.

Quote from: Horseman on July 30, 2025, 12:50:39 AMThis is why if we don't move on from these aged out vets and poor DB's we will not be challenging for top spot in the west next year. The players I mentioned that should be purged is for next year, can't make these changes now. Collaros has not been good for the last 2 years and now appears to be injured again. We must get his replacement starting for next year. The only viable starter that maybe available is Fajardo. The man plays with heart and can scramble when needed, I don't like him either but unless Elgersma comes back from his NFL stint, Fajardo is the only option I can see moving forward.

I am fine with our DBs other than Bridges who might just need more seasoning.  New safety will be developed this year maybe.  Some vets be gone yes, part of the process.  I believe with some development of existing players, good drafting and scouting we will be competitive.

Quote from: Horseman on July 30, 2025, 12:50:39 AMThis is why if we don't move on from these aged out vets and poor DB's we will not be challenging for top spot in the west next year. The players I mentioned that should be purged is for next year, can't make these changes now. Collaros has not been good for the last 2 years and now appears to be injured again. We must get his replacement starting for next year. The only viable starter that maybe available is Fajardo. The man plays with heart and can scramble when needed, I don't like him either but unless Elgersma comes back from his NFL stint, Fajardo is the only option I can see moving forward.

I know the hatred is abound in these parts for Fajardo, but I would have wanted him and Lawler vs Collaros and Mitchell THIS year. Absolute no brainer, none. Given the opportunity this year, he'll prove again his worth as a #1. Not sure of what the contract status is of other #1's next year, but I m assuming Kelly, Alexander, Brown, BLM, Rourke, Adams and Harris are all under contract. I don't see any other experienced option out there--and NO to Masoli or MBT, they've done nothing with their opportunities.

Quote from: dd on July 29, 2025, 11:15:51 PMFajardo Qb rating is 132, Collaros 89 you got any bright ideas where we're going to dig up our next starter and don't say it's Wilson or strev puuuleeease!!

Ya, any QB's rating can look high after only 1.5 games...

And this could be more a statement on EDM's OL being better (ya!) than the disaster we fielded last game.  At least EDM has real OTs.  VAJ, Alexander and Kelly would have looked awful behind our hodgepodge OL.

Let's see what Zach can do with our desired OL, and maybe a healthy dressed Schoen.

Quote from: peg_city on July 29, 2025, 09:13:23 PMWhether we want to get rid of Collaros or not, he's here for another year and I can't imagine O'shea is going to get rid of him.

I'm sure there are ways to shed Zach in FA26 without too much SMS pain.  *Should we want to*.  Someone can maybe run the numbers to give us an idea.  Any vet guaranteed salary, etc.  My guess is the hit should be under $200k.  Would suck, but not hopeless should we want a new guy.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 29, 2025, 04:35:25 PMHow can anybody be considered as good against the run when he has 3 DT's in 6 games. Noting that is his worst per game average since 2014 when he became a regular on defence. No sacks, no TFL and no int's.

I've noticed that teams are running outside on us the majority of the time.  There's very little up the gut going on, at least compared to what I'd call "normal".

Every time a RB kicks it outside or C gap on us I cringe knowing they are gonna bust it for 10Y, or 30...  I actually have strong faith in our inside run stop.  We have a very good system where the LBers are quickly there in positions to get the stop 80% of the time.

What I'm saying is Fatboi's DTs stat doesn't mean squat to me.  Maybe in relation to his DT partner, as a ratio.  But I bet that ratio has stayed pretty constant over the years...

Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 29, 2025, 02:58:44 PMOK, so we know the secondary has been bad. We're used to kicking butt in passing yards against, and we're currently bottom half there. But how the heck are we still leading in Opp Comp %?  Only 62% of passes get completed on us, that's a pretty good number!

I guess this shows it really is breakdowns on the odd big play that is killing us.

Ya, that's a weird stat eh?

But explosions can lose you games on their own, that's for sure.  Remember '14-'18 and the explosion problem?  We lost games then too, just because of explosions.

I think it took Hall 4 years to stop the explosions.  It was his job #1, and he talked about it incessantly.

I wonder if our DB general IQ level has gone down.  There's lots of mental and laziness mistakes this season.  We get torched on every single trick play, no matter how old, tired & obvious.

Just like I cringe when Os run outside on us, I cringe when Os do a "trick".  In both cases I know we are about to get reamed.

Quote from: TBURGESS on July 29, 2025, 02:25:20 PMIMO the real problem is hoping to get one more season out of former great players who are well past their prime. We managed to get away with it last year, but we should have known then, that we couldn't do it forever.

Many people were saying the same in '23... but look at '24.  Now people are saying it in '25.  We could still make the cup.  Then they'll say it again in '26.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 30, 2025, 04:06:53 AMI'm sure there are ways to shed Zach in FA26 without too much SMS pain.  *Should we want to*.  Someone can maybe run the numbers to give us an idea.  Any vet guaranteed salary, etc.  My guess is the hit should be under $200k.  Would suck, but not hopeless should we want a new guy.

If the Bombers somehow miss the playoffs this season playing behind Zach, he will not be in a secure state moving toward next season, signed contract or not. Just wondering if Matt Nichols contract was expiring in 2019, or if he had another year or 2 left on his deal? 

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 29, 2025, 01:49:54 PMBut therein lies the root. How do you suggest we get a top three offensive line when every year we lose a pretty good piece to free agency because we can't afford them? Why can't we afford them? Because the money is going elsewhere. Is elsewhere delivering? The answer this year is no. There's the real problem then.

Good post.  I don't have the perfect solution, but it seems clear that no matter what else you do, you need to field a top-3 OL.  Especially with Zach as your QB.

It is possible to shift unit budgets, and even (gasp) go over the SMS.  It's not like this isn't doable.

And as I said already, I think our solutions are in-house already!  We just need to get them on the field.  Even a wounded Stan is better than whatever other LT we might put in his place.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 29, 2025, 01:49:54 PMDon't make Lofton into a savior. He's been a mid PFF ranked player for most of his career and there were lots of people in TC looking for an upgrade there. I'd rather continue developing Randall over Lofton and the difference won't be significant.

Good points.  But I've been watching Lofton closely since we lost Yoshi.  He's been really solid, especially after a few weeks under his belt in '24.  I think Lofton was at least as good as Yoshi on pass pro!  It's the run game I think he may be lackluster at.

I also think Randolph has been doing OK at RT.  But RIGHT NOW I think Lofton is the better pass protector than Randolph, who has been burned for a few games in a row now.  And we need to win games RIGHT NOW, so I'm putting Lofton in if he's anywhere above 50% ready.

Randolph may prove the better run blocker, and maybe he'll become as good as Lofton at pass pro.  It's probably a safe bet.  And he'll probably be a great RT starter for us in future years.  But right now I want the crap OL play to stop and that means putting our best OTs on the field.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 30, 2025, 04:23:00 AMIf the Bombers somehow miss the playoffs this season playing behind Zach, he will not be in a secure state moving toward next season, signed contract or not. Just wondering if Matt Nichols contract was expiring in 2019, or if he had another year or 2 left on his deal?

It was Matt's last year on contract (17-18-19 = 3Y).  We simply released him in the off-season.  We paid no penalty SMS-wise.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3188441/winnipeg-blue-bombers-re-sign-quarterback-matt-nichols/

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 30, 2025, 04:04:05 AMYa, any QB's rating can look high after only 1.5 games...

And this could be more a statement on EDM's OL being better (ya!) than the disaster we fielded last game.  At least EDM has real OTs.  VAJ, Alexander and Kelly would have looked awful behind our hodgepodge OL.

Let's see what Zach can do with our desired OL, and maybe a healthy dressed Schoen.

I thought Edmonton's o line was terrible, fajardo was running for his life all game, something grandpa Collaros can't do well at all. And I don't think we ll see a healthy schoen last more than 3-5 games when he gets back. He"s too prone to injury to tie up dollars and rely on, I'd be moving on from him as well. He reminds me of nick Moore, in that he lit it up for one season then spent the rest of his career on the IR. Move on and sign a more reliable receiver next off season

Quote from: dd on July 30, 2025, 04:48:43 AMI thought Edmonton's o line was terrible, fajardo was running for his life all game, something grandpa Collaros can't do well at all.

That's my point.  EDM's OL was terrible.  WPG's OL was actually worse.  Yes, I know that seems impossible, and it should be.  There were some series and snaps EDM's OL held together enough to let Cody get some decent mid/deep passes off.

I'm not sure WPG's OL had any series where they looked even "OK".  I'm gonna start a rewatch now to confirm my thesis.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 30, 2025, 04:24:18 AMGood post.  I don't have the perfect solution, but it seems clear that no matter what else you do, you need to field a top-3 OL.  Especially with Zach as your QB.

It is possible to shift unit budgets, and even (gasp) go over the SMS.  It's not like this isn't doable.

And as I said already, I think our solutions are in-house already!  We just need to get them on the field.  Even a wounded Stan is better than whatever other LT we might put in his place.

Good points.  But I've been watching Lofton closely since we lost Yoshi.  He's been really solid, especially after a few weeks under his belt in '24.  I think Lofton was at least as good as Yoshi on pass pro!  It's the run game I think he may be lackluster at.

I also think Randolph has been doing OK at RT.  But RIGHT NOW I think Lofton is the better pass protector than Randolph, who has been burned for a few games in a row now.  And we need to win games RIGHT NOW, so I'm putting Lofton in if he's anywhere above 50% ready.

Randolph may prove the better run blocker, and maybe he'll become as good as Lofton at pass pro.  It's probably a safe bet.  And he'll probably be a great RT starter for us in future years.  But right now I want the crap OL play to stop and that means putting our best OTs on the field.

I think an important thing to consider with Randolph is he really needs reps. I'm not saying that just because he's a second year guy, he hardly played in college and when he did was used primarily as a blocking tight end, so OL is still newish for him. Costello gets so much love for being "one of the best OL coaches in the league". The development of Randolph will be a great litmus test for how good he is at developing guys. Every starting OT he has coached thus far has come to him as a polished or at least experienced player

Another thing with the Oline is that they do their best when the lineup is consistent. It's no coincidence that our best production there was when there was no changes to the lineup. We've lost key roles/players there and have recently had injuries too.
I also think falling behind early and abandoning the run plays a role. OL love to play bully ball, and when they can't sometimes they get bullied.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 30, 2025, 04:17:08 AMMany people were saying the same in '23... but look at '24.  Now people are saying it in '25.  We could still make the cup.  Then they'll say it again in '26.

I'm not a betting man, but if I was, I'd bet we don't make it to the Cup this year. 

Want to improve our OL, play Americans there and pla Canadians elswhere. Better American OL are easier to find.  Sask did that and played (drafted) Canadian receivers and DB.  May not work all the time but it is a place to start. ???

Quote from: bluebeard on July 30, 2025, 02:55:30 PMWant to improve our OL, play Americans there and pla Canadians elswhere. Better American OL are easier to find.  Sask did that and played (drafted) Canadian receivers and DB.  May not work all the time but it is a place to start. ???

That's what we've been doing...

Quote from: Blueforlife on July 29, 2025, 04:03:02 PMOL
CB
OC
DL
QB
Receiver
Absolutely none of these guys should be gone this season
Bridges as a backup is the only one that we might have to consider  imo
The rest of key contributors to this ball club and while are old are not nearly as bad as you suggest imo
It's Taylor Elgersma
Hard stop no on Cody
Willie had a good year last year, need to be better this year
Bonds can cover and was part of a very good defense last year, has been fine this year
OL are not what they used to be but still solid but at the end of their rope, as a unit we are average when healthy and could improve by year end, been a bad few weeks yesThomas is a good rotational DL who is good against the run.  Sun is setting but still one season left.  Hopefully Lawson progresses and we get Woods back.
Kramdi/Jones is a very good LB, your take is as off base as it gets here

I don't get the Kramdi hate from people.  Plus their is depth behind him with Smith, Makonzo and Kelly.

Quote from: bluebeard on July 30, 2025, 02:55:30 PMWant to improve our OL, play Americans there and pla Canadians elswhere. Better American OL are easier to find.  Sask did that and played (drafted) Canadian receivers and DB.  May not work all the time but it is a place to start. ???

Many here don't seem to realize for every extra American playing offence there is one less playing Defence.  Who here wants to take Person out of the D-line rotation after he gave them a much needed spark last week?

Just a suggestion to fix our DB problem...
What about sliding Parker back out to DB and putting someone else out there at safety? Maybe it's time for Cam Allen to get a shot at safety.

Parker is familiar with the system and position, plus lately he hasn't really given us the spark that you look for from your safety.  Maybe Cam could?

Quote from: LXTSN on July 30, 2025, 07:29:24 PMJust a suggestion to fix our DB problem...
What about sliding Parker back out to DB and putting someone else out there at safety? Maybe it's time for Cam Allen to get a shot at safety.

Parker is familiar with the system and position, plus lately he hasn't really given us the spark that you look for from your safety.  Maybe Cam could?

Ya, more than a few of of suggesting this move.

if Zach is out for a long time - that is the biggest issue

Quote from: dd on July 30, 2025, 04:48:43 AMI thought Edmonton's o line was terrible, fajardo was running for his life all game,

Yes, their O line gave up 8 sacks.

Quote from: DM83 on July 30, 2025, 11:24:11 PMYou guys realize that on some defenses, sometimes a d lineman job is to tie up two offensive linemen, so other d linemen get the glory. This also spectacularly applies to blitzing linebackers. when the D linemen creates a stalemate at the line when two guys are. Blocking him, maybe it's because his job on the. Defensive call is to occupy two offensive linemen. Watch Thomas, do just that.

No one is comparing Thomas to Cleyon Laing or Jake Ceresna, we're comparing 2025 Jake Thomas to any of his previous seasons and he's coming up short.

Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on July 30, 2025, 05:55:12 PMI don't get the Kramdi hate from people.  Plus their is depth behind him with Smith, Makonzo and Kelly.

Anyone that hate on Kramdi is just not seeing the talent he has or comparing him to the ultra elite lbs which isn't fair.  In time Kramdi could still develop his game further.  I liked Kramdi from the start.  Many dumped on him and wanted him gone.  The hate has calmed down but it still lingers, mostly when we stumble.

Quote from: Horseman on July 30, 2025, 10:46:55 PMYes, their O line gave up 8 sacks.

And yet Fajardo still had a great game passing the ball. Our O line struggles and the roof caves in!!

Overall, the coaching is not up to par. Defence has been weak and burned often. The offence is not producing with Collaros.

Quote from: Jesse on July 31, 2025, 12:06:47 AMNo one is comparing Thomas to Cleyon Laing or Jake Ceresna, we're comparing 2025 Jake Thomas to any of his previous seasons and he's coming up short.

One person previously compared Thomas to Laing.  Another person compared Thomas previously to other top DLs.  Not saying that right but it did happen.

Quote from: dd on July 30, 2025, 02:57:44 AMI know the hatred is abound in these parts for Fajardo, but I would have wanted him and Lawler vs Collaros and Mitchell THIS year. Absolute no brainer, none. Given the opportunity this year, he'll prove again his worth as a #1. Not sure of what the contract status is of other #1's next year, but I m assuming Kelly, Alexander, Brown, BLM, Rourke, Adams and Harris are all under contract. I don't see any other experienced option out there--and NO to Masoli or MBT, they've done nothing with their opportunities.

Cody<Zach imo
Cody can't throw deep

Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 30, 2025, 02:17:30 PMAnother thing with the Oline is that they do their best when the lineup is consistent. It's no coincidence that our best production there was when there was no changes to the lineup. We've lost key roles/players there and have recently had injuries too.
I also think falling behind early and abandoning the run plays a role. OL love to play bully ball, and when they can't sometimes they get bullied.

So much of this I agree with, OL needs gel time.  Started out ok, started getting hurt and making changes and wheel fell off.  In a few games once we have a similar unit for a bit wheels will roll imo

Quote from: LXTSN on July 30, 2025, 07:29:24 PMJust a suggestion to fix our DB problem...
What about sliding Parker back out to DB and putting someone else out there at safety? Maybe it's time for Cam Allen to get a shot at safety.

Parker is familiar with the system and position, plus lately he hasn't really given us the spark that you look for from your safety.  Maybe Cam could?

Parker too old for corner imo
Allen not ready imo and best to not rush him
I don't have the answers for our DBs change is coming, we will see what tomorrow on the depth chart

Quote from: DM83 on July 30, 2025, 11:05:04 PMYeah every year we have a very good  o lineman walk for better salary.
I think it will be self- evident that once we let Zac retire due to his concussion symptoms, release the crippled Shoen same situation, and wake up and sign the better O linemen, pay Lawler, the best receiver in the league, ......then we start rebuilding.

Defensively.  First impressions..... well claybrooks, no wait what's the guys name...oh Jordan Younger. His athletes and a prevent defence, loose man, don't move  defence whatever, needs some players who know what they are doing.  Bring Bighill back for player, player coach, LB coach or defensive co-ordinator.  We need demonstrative. Attitude. 

If you ever played for sure you know you need aggressive emotional guys, who demonstrate traits of never accepting getting beat. Those athletes that accept this younger style never run to the ball philosophy is like a wounded dying animal. It's doomed. If Willie wants to be a ball blocker, the USA senior games has tryouts for volleyball.

We need some aggressive large men to make quarterbacks nervous, the last game in Toronto Arbuckle didn't break a sweat.


Basically, we appear to be rudderless. We need a QB.

I don't agree with much of this
Pass on Biggie for DC
Willie is better than you suggest, your post about him is disrespectful imo, one of best to ever play for us at that positon
Zach isn't done (yet)
Schoen deepens on this year, we shall see, I am not giving up on him (yet)
Yes though losing OL but they often go to highest bidder, I want to draft and recuit better, can keep just all the high priced guys, need a mix
We are on a tail end of one of the best runs on D for the Bombers ever and after 3 games you are trying to suggest to blow it up, hard pass on that, you wanted to blow it up pre mini dynasty
The Lawler ship has said imo
Our DL played good last week and we got to the QB, that will continue
Your analysis of Younger's D is wrong imo, he has proven with Hall on his side to be an excellent DC who will continue to learn and grow, Hall might be gone (age) but I keep Younger long term, Younger has a dynamic defensive scheme saying that it's prevent is not accurate and over generalizing
Nothing is doomed about our defense, need a corner until Briges hopefully gets it figured out

Quote from: DM83 on July 30, 2025, 11:24:11 PMYou guys realize that on some defenses, sometimes a d lineman job is to tie up two offensive linemen, so other d linemen get the glory. This also spectacularly applies to blitzing linebackers. when the D linemen creates a stalemate at the line when two guys are. Blocking him, maybe it's because his job on the. Defensive call is to occupy two offensive linemen. Watch Thomas, do just that.

About as bang on as it gets
Agree all
Thomas plugs the gaps and gets double teamed and other better athletes feast

Quote from: kkc60 on July 30, 2025, 12:30:53 PMI think an important thing to consider with Randolph is he really needs reps. I'm not saying that just because he's a second year guy, he hardly played in college and when he did was used primarily as a blocking tight end, so OL is still newish for him. Costello gets so much love for being "one of the best OL coaches in the league". The development of Randolph will be a great litmus test for how good he is at developing guys.

Great post.  Love the new knowledge.

Is this Randolph's 2nd year, or was he here in '23 only on the PR?  Normally we wouldn't really be expecting a "dev guy" like him to be starting at OT in his 2nd year.  It may be a situation of being rushed too quickly.

Randolph has shown basically the bare minimum to be a starting RT.  You can win some games with him there, but he's not ideal.  I think he played a couple of good games or Q's at OG (last year?) and was good.  He royally stunk at LT (in '24?).  Like putrid horrible don't do that again.

Maybe he'll be great later.  But we kind of need great now because both OTs have been having IR troubles.

Maybe if the other 4 guys were the desired starters and everything was consistent week to week it wouldn't matter as much when we drop in a backup OT.  Maybe.  But right now so many pieces are changing and so many injuries.

And the current backups we have are lacking.  And nothing can really change until FA... It's a pickle.

Quote from: bluebeard on July 30, 2025, 02:55:30 PMWant to improve our OL, play Americans there and pla Canadians elswhere. Better American OL are easier to find.

Not O tackles.  Better IMP guards are a dime a dozen.  That's why both our backup IMPs are great at OG when they've played there in '24-'25.  And I fully agree, dump the NAT guards if they are struggling and use IMPs and spread the ratio elsewhere.

But still doesn't help the real problem, the one that kills drives and Zach: the OTs.  And that probably can't be fixed until FA.  Unless we work up some spiffy magic trade.

Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on July 30, 2025, 05:55:12 PMI don't get the Kramdi hate from people.  Plus their is depth behind him with Smith, Makonzo and Kelly.

There's probably nothing holding our D (especially front 7) together right now in terms of headspace / IQ / formation than Kramdi & Kyrie.  Well, maybe add Parker to that... maybe, I don't have enough info yet.

Whatever Kramdi may lack in athleticism and size, he makes up for in brains.  I think he's truly one of MOS' protege's.  He may be the reason we don't have to have brainiac Biggie in there and can suffice with maybe-not-so-brainy (but talented!) Jones.

So Derek Taylor compared a bunch of stats from the first games of 2024 to 2025 because even though our record is better, it FEELS so much worse this year (A combination of recency bias and the blow out losses).

The numbers are shocking similar. We're actually doing better this year in numerous categories (which makes sense given the better record), but the gigantic difference is turnovers.

In 2024, we lead the league in turnover given up with 11 through 6 games. So far in 2025, we've doubled that with 22. But we are scoring more points and giving up less points than last year at this time.

Many people are saying run the ball more, but we always start the game feeding Brady. But then, turn over, turn over, down by 21, throw throw throw. It all starts with the turn overs.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 31, 2025, 10:18:31 AMThere's probably nothing holding our D (especially front 7) together right now in terms of headspace / IQ / formation than Kramdi & Kyrie.  Well, maybe add Parker to that... maybe, I don't have enough info yet.

Whatever Kramdi may lack in athleticism and size, he makes up for in brains.  I think he's truly one of MOS' protege's.  He may be the reason we don't have to have brainiac Biggie in there and can suffice with maybe-not-so-brainy (but talented!) Jones.

The whole reason they took Kramdi was because of his athleticism and size isn't an issue, because he is about average for a SLB.

Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on July 31, 2025, 02:36:14 PMThe whole reason they took Kramdi was because of his athleticism and size isn't an issue, because he is about average for a SLB.

Ya, but it's his brains that turned out to be the best asset.  When Kyrie retires Kramdi will be "it" as the QB of the D, all else being equal.