So 2 Games in a row Collaros hasn't been able to finish the game. We have no idea what the issues are but did anyone else notice him running to the Locker room after the Game.
I think it's a neck injury officially?
So I guess Techno was wrong then...claimed Bombers pulled him because of his terrible play.
He went running to the dressing room after the game, not sure he'd be doing that if he had a neck injury. I think he was pulled as he was terrible and rightfully so. He played bad tonight and has to own that.
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on July 27, 2025, 03:02:09 AMSo I guess Techno was wrong then...claimed Bombers pulled him because of his terrible play.
O'Shea said post game it was injury related.
Quote from: DM83 on July 27, 2025, 03:19:49 AMWhat do you mean did anyone notice him? Yeah it was on the tv, and he was pushing t(rough his teammates to get in taker quickly.
Maybe more embarrassed, for less than stellar play. However he didn't drop those two passes.
He needs some real receivers, not the wanna bees......do we have any receivers.
Other than Demski, no we don't.
Quote from: dd on July 27, 2025, 03:22:26 AMOther than Demski, no we don't.
Wheatfall will make a great #3 but he needs 2 other good receivers so the secondary can't focus on him. Dropped a TD but that's going to happen when it's that wet.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 27, 2025, 03:29:05 AMWheatfall will make a great #3 but he needs 2 other good receivers so the secondary can't focus on him. Dropped a TD but that's going to happen when it's that wet.
I put wheatie in the same level as bailey and we let bailey go, and to be honest, I think bailey was better. We have no one anywhere near elite on our squad. Teams have at least 2 and some 3. We re in serious trouble offensively.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 27, 2025, 02:57:54 AMI think it's a neck injury officially?
Correct but Zach is brutal so whatever.
Quote from: DM83 on July 27, 2025, 03:19:49 AMWhat do you mean did anyone notice him? Yeah it was on the tv, and he was pushing t(rough his teammates to get in taker quickly.
Maybe more embarrassed, for less than stellar play. However he didn't drop those two passes.
He needs some real receivers, not the wanna bees......do we have any receivers.
Yes in 2025 Receivers or lack of Receiver Talent is an Issue ( self induced to some degree ) however Collaros isn't the same player he was in 2019 , 2020 he is middle of the pack or worse on any given week and the supporting Cast around him is aging / declining.
Yes, neck injury or not, he's definitely on the decline and with the sub standard receiving corps we have, expect much of the same what we saw tonight. I d gladly take Cody fajardo over him right now, hands down, no questions asked, and with the savings in salary go buy me back Kenny Lawler next season!!
Quote from: BBFANDM on July 27, 2025, 03:54:35 AMhowever Collaros isn't the same player he was in 2019 , 2020 he is middle of the pack or worse on any given week and the supporting Cast around him is aging / declining.
I think Zach's top-3, IF he has a top OL and at least 2 top-5 RECs. I really do. Zach is not the big problem. But he cannot win you games (anymore) with substandard help.
On your second point, so fix the supporting cast, eh?
Quote from: dd on July 27, 2025, 03:32:13 AMI put wheatie in the same level as bailey and we let bailey go, and to be honest, I think bailey was better. We have no one anywhere near elite on our squad. Teams have at least 2 and some 3. We re in serious trouble offensively.
Different receivers, Wheatfall is good at getting open deep and beating DB's with speed and great moves. Bailey brought grit to the inside game, which is still sorely lacking, Clercius is a decent receiver but he can't fill Bailey's shoes.
Quote from: dd on July 27, 2025, 03:32:13 AMI put wheatie in the same level as bailey and we let bailey go, and to be honest, I think bailey was better.
Wheatie is basically slightly improved from '24. He was pretty invisible in the post-season, and really pathetic we had to dress him for a GC. He might get better.
Bailey was the better blocker, but he had that bruiser body type. Wheatie is a lanky Kenny body type, as was Pokey. It's nice to have one of those for the home runs, but it's better if they are really talented.
If we get Pokey back then Wheatie might sit. Especially if Schoen comes back.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 27, 2025, 03:29:05 AMWheatfall will make a great #3 but he needs 2 other good receivers so the secondary can't focus on him. Dropped a TD but that's going to happen when it's that wet.
Maybe. Maybe not this season. Agreed he needs help to shine.
Dropping the TD on a looks-like-we're-gonna-lose day like today though... gotta make that catch. Especially since he had it perfectly in the basket! It's like the Case drop on 3rd that killed our comeback chances. He totally had it, perfectly ball.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 27, 2025, 02:57:54 AMI think it's a neck injury officially?
O'Shea said he has no idea what he issue is with Zach I didn't hear Neck did they say that on TSN ?
Quote from: blueandgoldguy on July 27, 2025, 03:02:09 AMSo I guess Techno was wrong then...claimed Bombers pulled him because of his terrible play.
No, I said it was to save face and put in our best chance of winning a wet game where no one can secure a catch. And I think I'm right because we put in our "running QB" instead of our "pocket QB in training". His blah play was only part of it, and I'll be the first to admit that's more an OL/REC problem than Zach!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 27, 2025, 03:16:04 AMO'Shea said post game it was injury related.
Believe what you want! Like MOS has never told fibs before, eh?
I'll eat crow if he doesn't practice and goes on the IR. BTW, that would mean a certain loss next week...
Quote from: dd on July 27, 2025, 04:08:41 AMI d gladly take Cody fajardo over him right now, hands down, no questions asked
Gross!
Woolerton, ptui. (Cody was pretty bad with no OL too BTW, and we have to remember this was a wet game)
Quote from: BBFANDM on July 27, 2025, 04:26:25 AMO'Shea said he has no idea what he issue is with Zach I didn't hear Neck did they say that on TSN ?
Haha, so they were picking on me without the sauce, lol. I'll go watch the post-game now and update the thread.
https://www.bluebombers.com/2025/07/26/coach-oshea-july-26-4/
MOS says only "no update yet", said it twice
So anyone saying "neck" on this thread is spouting fake news.
You know what, I wonder if part of the Zach-yank is so that he won't have to do the post-game presser... Even if the backup only plays 2 snaps they give the post-game to the guy who finished the game.
It's so stupid... I don't really want to hear 5 mins of Strev, as much as I like the guy. His post-games are useless.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 27, 2025, 04:28:49 AMGross!
Woolerton, ptui. (Cody was pretty bad with no OL too BTW, and we have to remember this was a wet game)
c mon techie, your man fajardo was lights out better than both strev and Collaros combined tonight. Mind you, fajardo would have to throw to our receivers so that would be useless.
Quote from: BBFANDM on July 27, 2025, 04:26:25 AMO'Shea said he has no idea what he issue is with Zach I didn't hear Neck did they say that on TSN ?
I think it's concussion related, either a foggy brain syndrome or headache re-activates with light activity, signalling to stop.
Quote from: dd on July 27, 2025, 04:53:21 AMc mon techie, your man fajardo was lights out better than both strev and Collaros combined tonight. Mind you, fajardo would have to throw to our receivers so that would be useless.
That may mean even EDM's OL is better than ours! :o :o They probably have a real LT, for one thing.
And you defeat your own argument with your second point. ;D ;D ;D EDM RECs may not be great (they aren't), but vets Dunbar and Gittens are miles above what we have now. And that giant Mathis is looking like the Next Big Thing, until he got IR'd that is.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 27, 2025, 05:04:57 AMI think it's concussion related, either a foggy brain syndrome or headache re-activates with light activity, signalling to stop.
Everyone better pray Tecno is right then... or our season is done!
It's a combination of several issues...
Injuries - Schoen and Bryant being the key ones.
Weaker D - including Dline and DBs (although the D had their moments tonight).
Hogan in particular. Wondering about coaching. In fairness, he needs time to adjust to his position.
Turnovers - Whether by fluke or missed assignments (ball bouncing off helmuts, interceptions or fumbles etc.,) they need to be eliminated.
Quote from: dd on July 27, 2025, 03:32:13 AMI put wheatie in the same level as bailey and we let bailey go, and to be honest, I think bailey was better. We have no one anywhere near elite on our squad. Teams have at least 2 and some 3. We re in serious trouble offensively.
Wheatie and Bailey entirely different players
Quote from: dd on July 27, 2025, 04:08:41 AMYes, neck injury or not, he's definitely on the decline and with the sub standard receiving corps we have, expect much of the same what we saw tonight. I d gladly take Cody fajardo over him right now, hands down, no questions asked, and with the savings in salary go buy me back Kenny Lawler next season!!
Hard pass on Cody
Quote from: ModAdmin on July 27, 2025, 07:01:12 AMIt's a combination of several issues...
Weaker D - including Dline and DBs (although the D had their moments tonight).
I maintain that our DL is better this year than in '24. Ya I know, that's not too hard... but we did make some progress.
We were getting pressure on Arbuckle like half the night tonight, because I think we're actually scheming better now after the uselessness of trying to get to VAJ. And we used more looks and more blitz.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 27, 2025, 04:32:06 AMhttps://www.bluebombers.com/2025/07/26/coach-oshea-july-26-4/
MOS says only "no update yet", said it twice
So anyone saying "neck" on this thread is spouting fake news.
He left last week's game as a precaution and what the team later called a neck injury during the week.
So the logical assumption, seeing as he appeared fine to everyone before and during the game in Toronto, is that the injury was not new.
I also posed my comment as a question but it seems the logical assumption.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 27, 2025, 04:32:06 AMhttps://www.bluebombers.com/2025/07/26/coach-oshea-july-26-4/
MOS says only "no update yet", said it twice
So anyone saying "neck" on this thread is spouting fake news.
What he said was that it was not performance based, and that he was not ready to start the second half. OShea is not going to come out and say concussion, but it's hard to not come to that conclusion logically.
Now, I'm not a doctor - but piecing together bits of info - like Zach saying recently that he's dealing with some recurring issues, and it really sounds like concussion.
There will be times he might feel fine, maybe he'll even suck up some of the symptoms, and that was why he practiced & played. This is also why him practicing this week and playing literally proves nothing.
I believe something happened during the half - they must have had a staff check in on him, and either zach himself, or the staff deemed him no go.
In hindsight ZC8 should have taken the game off.
Zach wasn't pulled because of his play. If he was, then he'd have been in uniform on the sidelines.
IMO he has a concussion and shouldn't have been starting the game in the first place.
Quote from: TBURGESS on July 27, 2025, 02:11:41 PMZach wasn't pulled because of his play. If he was, then he'd have been in uniform on the sidelines.
IMO he has a concussion and shouldn't have been starting the game in the first place.
Just my opinion, it was a combination. I don't think it's a concussion but I think he's sore, has a million hard miles on him, and in the pouring rain, against a team he has absolutely no success with, they figured he should rest and turn it over to Streveler.
The cold hard truth to our season so far is that Streveler has been no worse than Collaros this year. To put it bluntly, it's a problem when your highly paid, starting QB produces like your 100k backup. That's where we're at. And I don't mean it as anything but fact. Collaros was been amazing for us and should and will always be celebrated. It's just not 2019 anymore. The only thing left to do is wait for the Steelers to sign him.
Didn't Zach have a history of concussions when he became a Blue Bomber?
"Multiple prospective studies have identified a history of prior concussion as a risk factor for subsequent concussion."
He probably should retire after this season for his health. He needs to take care of himself.
he should go on the six game injured list right now.
Specially with the team prospects for this season being quite bad.
Probably..... He'll do whatever they tell him is best for the team.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 27, 2025, 03:16:04 AMO'Shea said post game it was injury related.
I believe his words were "not performance related".
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 27, 2025, 03:10:37 PMJust my opinion, it was a combination. I don't think it's a concussion but I think he's sore, has a million hard miles on him, and in the pouring rain, against a team he has absolutely no success with, they figured he should rest and turn it over to Streveler.
The cold hard truth to our season so far is that Streveler has been no worse than Collaros this year. To put it bluntly, it's a problem when your highly paid, starting QB produces like your 100k backup. That's where we're at. And I don't mean it as anything but fact. Collaros was been amazing for us and should and will always be celebrated. It's just not 2019 anymore. The only thing left to do is wait for the Steelers to sign him.
Ouch as a Steelers fan that hurts
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 27, 2025, 04:22:53 AMWheatie is basically slightly improved from '24. He was pretty invisible in the post-season, and really pathetic we had to dress him for a GC. He might get better.
Bailey was the better blocker, but he had that bruiser body type. Wheatie is a lanky Kenny body type, as was Pokey. It's nice to have one of those for the home runs, but it's better if they are really talented.
If we get Pokey back then Wheatie might sit. Especially if Schoen comes back.
Lots of "If's" in your statement! And while I can agree with your statement IMHO this all points out to the lack of good recruiting and player management that took place post 2024 season. I do not believe there will be much opportunity to improve on the state of our talent pool going forward but will always hold out hope!
Quote from: markf on July 27, 2025, 03:49:27 PMDidn't Zach have a history of concussions when he became a Blue Bomber?
"Multiple prospective studies have identified a history of prior concussion as a risk factor for subsequent concussion."
He probably should retire after this season for his health. He needs to take care of himself.
he should go on the six game injured list right now.
Specially with the team prospects for this season being quite bad.
Probably..... He'll do whatever they tell him is best for the team.
Are you seriously asking that question?
Sending him to the 6 game is not likely in the cards as it would tank the Bomber season, as it stands now they can still make the playoffs and win the West Division. Not saying it's right or wrong but Zach signed a contract for $600k with the team to play this season and next, when both sides knew the precarious state his health has been in since his arrival in 2019. I think everyone would respect his decision to retire, but that decision has to be made by Zach.
Quote from: bwiser on July 27, 2025, 04:15:29 PMOuch as a Steelers fan that hurts
just put renegade on repeat and ignore everything else. That's what i am doing..
Are entire QB room is underwhelming to say the least!
Collaros always throws to the other team, Streveler should thank his lucky stars McFadden can't catch a ball because would have had 3-4 interceptions, 3rd stringer hasn't shown much of anything due to numerous reasons.
Our QB situation has not been this bad in about 8 years!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 27, 2025, 04:21:20 PMAre you seriously asking that question?
Sending him to the 6 game is not likely in the cards as it would tank the Bomber season, as it stands now they can still make the playoffs and win the West Division. Not saying it's right or wrong but Zach signed a contract for $600k with the team to play this season and next, when both sides knew the precarious state his health has been in since his arrival in 2019. I think everyone would respect his decision to retire, but that decision has to be made by Zach.
Question (I don't follow salaries that closely), but if Zach was deemed not able to play next year due to injury, would insurance cover his salary and the Bombers not have that count to our cap next year?
I didn't like that extension at the time, but this could be a likely outcome.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 27, 2025, 09:45:20 AMI maintain that our DL is better this year than in '24. Ya I know, that's not too hard... but we did make some progress.
We were getting pressure on Arbuckle like half the night tonight, because I think we're actually scheming better now after the uselessness of trying to get to VAJ. And we used more looks and more blitz.
and still the bombers butt
Quote from: BBRT on July 27, 2025, 04:20:25 PMLots of "If's" in your statement!
Have you never read a post from Tecno before? Lots of If's to help make sure he can't be proven wrong.
interesting stat courtesy of Zach Schnitzer:
#Argos' first five completions of the game vs the #Bombers' struggling secondary were passes of 41, 33, 27, 30, 11, and 18 yards, including two touchdowns. Collaros had five completions the entire first half, two of them interceptions.
we got our butts kicked - no question.
Edit
Quote from: The Zipp on July 27, 2025, 05:33:01 PMinteresting stat courtesy of Zach Schnitzer:
#Argos' first five completions of the game vs the #Bombers' struggling secondary were passes of 41, 33, 27, 30, 11, and 18 yards, including two touchdowns. Collaros had five completions the entire first half, two of them interceptions.
we got our butts kicked - no question.
That is horrific.
Team not ready to start - again.
Collaros bad - again.
D cant cover anyone.
:'(
Quote from: Ducky on July 27, 2025, 05:37:09 PMThat is horrific.
Team not ready to start - again.
Collaros bad - again.
D cant cover anyone.
:'(
I don't take Schnitzer seriously..he picks his favorites and writes that way.
Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 27, 2025, 04:45:16 PMQuestion (I don't follow salaries that closely), but if Zach was deemed not able to play next year due to injury, would insurance cover his salary and the Bombers not have that count to our cap next year?
I didn't like that extension at the time, but this could be a likely outcome.
His contract for next season is not guaranteed, the Bombers could rip it up, trade him or renegotiate a lower rate if they see fit. There's likely a signing bonus payment scheduled in the off-season that could force their hand before next season begins.
Quote from: The Zipp on July 27, 2025, 05:33:01 PMinteresting stat courtesy of Zach Schnitzer:
#Argos' first five completions of the game vs the #Bombers' struggling secondary were passes of 41, 33, 27, 30, 11, and 18 yards, including two touchdowns. Collaros had five completions the entire first half, two of them interceptions.
we got our butts kicked - no question.
Yikes! Maybe Younger's revolutionary defensive schemes have been cracked, or maybe there's a reason 3 man rushes and 8 DB coverage never caught on. Might be time to reel his experimentation in and move back towards what worked well during the Richie Hall days.
Hogan reminds me of Riders offensive coordinator Kelly Jeffrey, he was an unexpected/unqualified hire that only lasted one year before being replaced.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 27, 2025, 06:06:57 PMYikes! Maybe Younger's revolutionary defensive schemes have been cracked, or maybe there's a reason 3 man rushes and 8 DB coverage never caught on. Might be time to reel his experimentation in and move back towards what worked well during the Richie Hall days.
Hogan reminds me of Riders offensive coordinator Kelly Jeffrey, he was an unexpected/unqualified hire that only lasted one year before being replaced.
Younger will continue to learn. His schemes are good. Hall is nice to have there as his mentor. I don't see us going back to a Hall type D but I never had an issue with it!!!
Zach is good to great when healthy and behind a good OL.
Strev has been up and down to be sure but has some worth still.
Wilson has all the tools and in a few years could be a good option.
Our QB room is about the same as it has been for a long time. Live or die with Zach. I think we have another year with him as our leader as long as he gets protection and can be healthy
Quote from: tlf on July 27, 2025, 05:47:04 PMI don't take Schnitzer seriously..he picks his favorites and writes that way.
it's facts not any sort of conjecture - Zach is a great Bomber fan
Collaros's future in terms of his health is the concern for me. For it's impact on both him and the team. As for his play, he's going through some struggles, but I have no doubt he's still got it and he will get it figured out it. If he can still play that is.
Quote from: The Zipp on July 27, 2025, 06:35:29 PMit's facts not any sort of conjecture - Zach is a great Bomber fan
Sure he's a good fan. Bonfire is just not my style and that's ok.
It's clear either;
a)We don't have the the athletes to play Youngers schemes
b)The athletes we have don't understand Youngers schemes well enough to execute at an acceptable level
All season we have seen fundamental coverage issues and lack of cohesion and communication, it's not one or two guys it's the entire grouping
It also appears we don't have the athletes to play "Zach's" style of gunslinger game.....
Just looking at some stats six games or 1/3 into the season. ZC has the worst QB efficiency rating of the 9 regular starting QBs so far in 2025. Collaros also has the highest INT percentage with 8 INTs vs 7 TDs. Colloros's QB efficiency rating isn't just the worst among starters, at 89.1 it is significantly worse than the others. You could argue Zach has the weakest receiver unit in the league which would contribute to this inefficiency. But looking back at 2024 with a better crop of receivers, Collaros threw 19 INT vs 21 TDs - this includes 4 INTS in the GREY CUP and 4 TDs in West Final - which gave Zach the worst INT percentage last year among QBs who started 10 games or more. That is a total of 28 INT versus 28 TDs in the past 25 games in which Collaros has appeared. Yes you can lay some of that on the receivers. But still. This is not to take away from Zach's substantial contribution since he arrived here in 2019 - respect! But the decline in Collaros's performance since around August 11 2023 neck injury vs Elks (when Dru Brown came off the bench to win the game) is clear as day.
Quote from: Doublezero on July 27, 2025, 10:18:06 PMJust looking at some stats six games or 1/3 into the season. ZC has the worst QB efficiency rating of the 9 regular starting QBs so far in 2025. Collaros also has the highest INT percentage with 8 INTs vs 7 TDs. Colloros's QB efficiency rating isn't just the worst among starters, at 89.1 it is significantly worse than the others. You could argue Zach has the weakest receiver unit in the league which would contribute to this inefficiency. But looking back at 2024 with a better crop of receivers, Collaros threw 19 INT vs 21 TDs - this includes 4 INTS in the GREY CUP and 4 TDs in West Final - which gave Zach the worst INT percentage last year among QBs who started 10 games or more. That is a total of 28 INT versus 28 TDs in the past 25 games in which Collaros has appeared. Yes you can lay some of that on the receivers. But still. This is not to take away from Zach's substantial contribution since he arrived here in 2019 - respect! But the decline in Collaros's performance since around August 11 2023 neck injury vs Elks (when Dru Brown came off the bench to win the game) is clear as day.
good info - thanks
While we've historically been peeety good at moving people off before their expiration date, I think we've missed that window with Collaros, partly at least due to the credit he rightly deserves for past seasons. And we don't have a viable second option at the moment. In hindsight letting Brown walk and not trying to pickup BLM when he was in the outs with the TiCats in 23 were tactical errors.
The biggest thing hurting Collaros right now is the play of our O line, which has been about the weakest in the league, and the fact he doesn't have Lawler and Schoen to throw to anymore--our recieving corps is the weakest in the league. Add to that our secondary and DL are pretty weak, and we didn't re-sign our ace kick returner and you have yourself a problem. Our secondary looks confused half the time. I think we have lost too much critical mass in our lineup to win a Grey Cup this year, at this point, I am hoping we can play competitively !!
Quote from: BlueInCgy on July 28, 2025, 12:43:36 AMWhile we've historically been peeety good at moving people off before their expiration date, I think we've missed that window with Collaros, partly at least due to the credit he rightly deserves for past seasons. And we don't have a viable second option at the moment. In hindsight letting Brown walk and not trying to pickup BLM when he was in the outs with the TiCats in 23 were tactical errors.
So easy to say now. We passed on Brown when Zach was still very good and passed on BO when he was very bad. Zach got us to another cup. Was no error there imo.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 28, 2025, 01:33:22 AMSo easy to say now. We passed on Brown when Zach was still very good and passed on BO when he was very bad. Zach got us to another cup. Was no error there imo.
Actually, I was fairly adamant on both points at the time, despite those here who were quite vocal about how they'd never want BLM in Blue and Gold, how he was a lousy human being because he talked trash about the Bombers once during the Nicols era, etc, etc. I guarantee you had we made that move in 23 we wouldn't be 0-3 in the last 3 Grey Cups.
The Brown decision was massively short sighted.
And Zach has gone 0-3 in the three games that counted. Getting us to the game means very little if you can't win it.
Quote from: BlueInCgy on July 28, 2025, 02:30:12 AMActually, I was fairly adamant on both points at the time, despite those here who were quite vocal about how they'd never want BLM in Blue and Gold, how he was a lousy human being because he talked trash about the Bombers once during the Nicols era, etc, etc. I guarantee you had we made that move in 23 we wouldn't be 0-3 in the last 3 Grey Cups.
The Brown decision was massively short sighted.
And Zach has gone 0-3 in the three games that counted. Getting us to the game means very little if you can't win it.
Much easier to sell the narrative while Zach and the team are in a slump
Much easier to sell BO in Wpg after he rebounded
Brown is a good QB but we already had a great one
There is no way to know what would have happened
We got to the show 5 times in a row, excellent run, don't down play it
any update on Collaros condition?? If we think he's such a bad quarterback, I hate to see our team without him and we may find out this week.
Quote from: BlueInCgy on July 28, 2025, 02:30:12 AMActually, I was fairly adamant on both points at the time, despite those here who were quite vocal about how they'd never want BLM in Blue and Gold, how he was a lousy human being because he talked trash about the Bombers once during the Nicols era, etc, etc. I guarantee you had we made that move in 23 we wouldn't be 0-3 in the last 3 Grey Cups.
The Brown decision was massively short sighted.
And Zach has gone 0-3 in the three games that counted. Getting us to the game means very little if you can't win it.
BLM is 2-2 in Grey Cup games and Calgary faced many of the same questions his whole career that they flinched in the play-offs/Grey Cup. Their period of dominance went on for 10 years and I think they have the same 2 Grey Cup wins as we do.
And Calgary moved on for a reason. This is the first year that BLM has looked like himself in 6 years. We weren't getting to the last 3 Grey Cups with him, nevermind win them.
Dru Brown would have been a reasonable decision that many teams would have made. But he hasn't exactly had much success since leaving either. It's fun to look at what if's, but I don't think eveything is fixed with either of those moves and there was the potential for things to be much worse.
I'm absolutely cool with the decision to ride or die with Zach until the wheels fall off. It is the price of how much success we've had.
Quote from: dd on July 28, 2025, 04:10:14 AMany update on Collaros condition?? If we think he's such a bad quarterback, I hate to see our team without him and we may find out this week.
I don't think many people are arguing that Strevler or Wilson are better quarterbacks than Zach. I don't think Strevler and Zach are that far apart anymore.
Mitchell, Rourke, VAJ, Harris, Alexander and Brown have all played better than Collaros over the past 2 seasons. You could make the argument that Fajardo and Arbuckle have played better as well.
Of course he has his good games and bad games, but lately he's had a lot more bad games than good games.
I really have a hard time seeing us winning another championship with Zach at the helm. It's been hard for me to admit that since Zach is the reason we have those 2 championships. He's been one of the best Bomber QB's of all time! Without him we have Matt Nichols maybe winning a playoff game here or there...
Just in terms of the QB position, I don't know what people expect though.
Zach has been an absolute revelation. The best QB in Bomberland since the brief flash of Khari. He's never not taken us to the Grey Cup in his career here. Isn't that a ridiculous thing to say?
The only possible move might have been to let Dru take over in a succession plan, but they chose to stick with the man that brought them there and I don't think there's a right or wrong decision there, it was a choice that I respect. And again, Brown's had some good games here and there but has spent most of the time since he's left injured.
I think the clean chest hit ZC took early in the game, shook him up a bit and maybe reactivated a previous injury. Hope he's back soon.
Unless he's failing a concussion test, I expect him to be back at practice.
Give Zac a better receiving group that he could count on then you will see a different QB.
He doesnt have confidence in the guys now and maybe they are not where they are supposed to be on the field. Every team in the league have good to great receivers we have average or below average. That is on Walters, MOS, OC and scouting. We need receivers that could catch and get yards after a catch. if you get the ball moving which will start our running game going.
So lets get off Zacs back until the receiving improves, lets not go next one up because there is nothing in the wings.
Quote from: Jesse on July 28, 2025, 01:39:20 PMJust in terms of the QB position, I don't know what people expect though.
Zach has been an absolute revelation. The best QB in Bomberland since the brief flash of Khari. He's never not taken us to the Grey Cup in his career here. Isn't that a ridiculous thing to say?
The only possible move might have been to let Dru take over in a succession plan, but they chose to stick with the man that brought them there and I don't think there's a right or wrong decision there, it was a choice that I respect. And again, Brown's had some good games here and there but has spent most of the time since he's left injured.
Couldn't help but notice how similar in playing style Arbuckle is to Zach, but in the last few years Arbuckle's game has gotten better, while Zach's has noticeabally declined. End of the season trade them straight across, Zach ends his career in T.O. where he started and Bombers have a few extra years to get the best out of a QB that will remain second string if he stays with the Argos. If something better than Arbuckle emerges from the Bomber QB room, it's all good.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 28, 2025, 08:09:28 PMCouldn't help but notice how similar in playing style Arbuckle is to Zach, but in the last few years Arbuckle's game has gotten better, while Zach's has noticeabally declined. End of the season trade them straight across, Zach ends his career in T.O. where he started and Bombers have a few extra years to get the best out of a QB that will remain second string if he stays with the Argos. If something better than Arbuckle emerges from the Bomber QB room, it's all good.
I would stay on that thought, but rather than trade Collaros, I'd restructure his current contract and have him back, but also go after Arbuckle and have a solid 1-2 Qb room, best Qb in camp starts, the other is backup. You need 2 Qb's to compete in the CFL, just look at how many #1's get hurt, and then #2 steps in and stinks (our present scenario). Montreal, Edmonton, BC, Sask, Toronto all have decent #2 Qb's. Thing is, Arbuckle may not want to leave TO to come to here as TO will be a force when Kelly comes back and instant contender, whereas we are at least another year off.
Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 27, 2025, 01:40:28 PMWhat he said was that it was not performance based, and that he was not ready to start the second half.
The post-game presser says nothing of the short. I listened to it again just to be sure. The only thing MOS will said is he is Col Klink - he knows nooooooothing about Zach. "no update"
Just like someone posted MOS said "neck", it's not true. If we're going to post MOS "quotes" then either be accurate, or post the link and give us a timestamp.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 27, 2025, 03:59:48 PMI believe his words were "not performance related".
OMG, how can everyone watch the same presser and make up words in their head? Tell me in the presser where he says that.
https://www.bluebombers.com/2025/07/26/coach-oshea-july-26-4/
Quote from: Pigskin on July 27, 2025, 01:48:47 PMIn hindsight ZC8 should have taken the game off.
Ya, for me it's because it was wet. Zach gives zero run threat and in a slippery game the run threat can help you win. How well would Strev have done if he had 1st team reaps all week and Hogan could plan around a run-mostly game?
I'm starting to wonder if we should hold Zach out until we have a respectable OL. He'll just flounder with a crap OL
AND he'll get injured/concussed. For realz this time. And maybe give him some REC weapons too. Then put him out there.
If we're just gonna lose, then lose with an "expendable" QB in. Heck, give Wilson a whole game that everyone is dying to see for some reason. At least we'll know whether to keep him another season next FA.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 29, 2025, 04:57:39 AMThe post-game presser says nothing of the short. I listened to it again just to be sure. The only thing MOS will said is he is Col Klink - he knows nooooooothing about Zach. "no update"
Just like someone posted MOS said "neck", it's not true. If we're going to post MOS "quotes" then either be accurate, or post the link and give us a timestamp.
Hey that was Sargent Schultz who said he knew nooothing, and loved apple strudel!! Colonel Klink was the baffoon everyone was pulling the wool over his eyes!! I think Hogan might be Klink but OShea isn't, and how ironic is it that our OC is named Hogan!! Wish he was as crafty as bob cranes character!!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 28, 2025, 08:09:28 PMCouldn't help but notice how similar in playing style Arbuckle is to Zach, but in the last few years Arbuckle's game has gotten better, while Zach's has noticeabally declined. End of the season trade them straight across, Zach ends his career in T.O. where he started and Bombers have a few extra years to get the best out of a QB that will remain second string if he stays with the Argos.
Uh, that may be the craziest idea I've seen yet. Arbuckle is not a #1 anywhere, never has been (even though some tried for a few games), never will be. And he's like 77 like Zach is... how is sticking with "old" going to help anything?
Arbuckle lucked into just 1 win this season before they beat us, mostly because of their D. Arbuckle only wins because of QB Whisperer Dinwiddie planning absolutely everything around him. And the very first second he can, he too will bench Arbuckle so they can start winning again.
And TOR is playing with substandard units and lack of talent, but they are playing like they intend to get better, and fast, and that they think they'll be a top team when Kelly returns. They are probably right. Contrast to the way we are playing...
That said, Arbuckle would make a good backup. However, he won't come at the $100k Strevy Kmart blue light special deal price.
Quote from: BlueInCgy on July 28, 2025, 02:30:12 AMActually, I was fairly adamant on both points at the time, despite those here who were quite vocal about how they'd never want BLM in Blue and Gold, how he was a lousy human being because he talked trash about the Bombers once during the Nicols era, etc, etc. I guarantee you had we made that move in 23 we wouldn't be 0-3 in the last 3 Grey Cups.
The Brown decision was massively short sighted.
Right, we wouldn't have even made it to the cups in those 3 years. BLM stunk horribly in his first few years in HAM. He only really started looking good about halfway through '24.
BLM is as dependent on a good supporting cast as Zach is. Both MUST have a good OL. MUST. It's not optional. Both MUST have decent RECs, including 2 top-10. If they don't have these things then they tend to suck bad.
It just so happens now BLM has those things and we don't, because Ted stole all of our players, basically. Made a Bombers 2.0 over there. Smart guy.
As for Dru, he has done absolutely nothing since leaving here. If he had remained as our #1 we would have never made it out of a SF.
Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on July 27, 2025, 10:12:39 PMIt's clear either;
a)We don't have the the athletes to play Youngers schemes
b)The athletes we have don't understand Youngers schemes well enough to execute at an acceptable level
All season we have seen fundamental coverage issues and lack of cohesion and communication, it's not one or two guys it's the entire grouping
Great post. What makes it sadder is we have 3 of 5 DBs that can, and 2 that ruin it for everyone else...
I also think cutting both "QBs of the D" (Biggie/BA) is taking longer to fix/replace than maybe we would have thought. The collective IQ of the LB/DB units may have taken a big hit when they left.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 27, 2025, 06:06:57 PMYikes! Maybe Younger's revolutionary defensive schemes have been cracked, or maybe there's a reason 3 man rushes and 8 DB coverage never caught on.
We've been doing very very little 3-man DL this season. There's a ton of straight up normal 4 DL shown / 4 rush going on.
Quote from: dd on July 29, 2025, 05:24:59 AMHey that was Sargent Schultz who said he knew nooothing, and loved apple strudel!!
Indeed you are correct. ;D I'm in the new 'vid brain fog at the moment, and everything sorta blends together.
Quote from: The Zipp on July 27, 2025, 05:33:01 PMinteresting stat courtesy of Zach Schnitzer:
#Argos' first five completions of the game vs the #Bombers' struggling secondary were passes of 41, 33, 27, 30, 11, and 18 yards, including two touchdowns. Collaros had five completions the entire first half, two of them interceptions.
we got our butts kicked - no question.
After watching the other games this weekend, I'm not sure how we will beat anyone. Did you see BC/HAM? We could only dream of executing like that on O. Only dream.
Quote from: Stretch on July 27, 2025, 05:12:15 PMHave you never read a post from Tecno before? Lots of If's to help make sure he can't be proven wrong.
Well, I am a programmer 24/7. My entire life since 13 is "if this then that". So ya, I put in a lot of conditionals. 8)
Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 27, 2025, 04:45:16 PMQuestion (I don't follow salaries that closely), but if Zach was deemed not able to play next year due to injury, would insurance cover his salary and the Bombers not have that count to our cap next year?
Pretty sure there's no "insurance", seperatate entity that covers payouts in case of IR. Besides "real money" isn't the issue: it's SMS money. Technically if we give him no bonuses, and put him on the 6G the entire season then he costs us NOTHING on the SMS.
And we can cut him any time we want (before vet cut deadline), though the contracts may have some vet severance bonuses we'd have to pay (on SMS). If you had any eye whatsoever on a hair trigger Zach cut, you'd try to minimize bonuses, and vet cut payouts. I have no idea if KW did this... he doesn't seem to give it much thought in the past.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 29, 2025, 04:57:39 AMThe post-game presser says nothing of the short. I listened to it again just to be sure. The only thing MOS will said is he is Col Klink - he knows nooooooothing about Zach. "no update"
Just like someone posted MOS said "neck", it's not true. If we're going to post MOS "quotes" then either be accurate, or post the link and give us a timestamp.
I haven't even watched the video clip, I listened on CJOB right after the game. I don't know if that is the same interview - but I maintain what I heard. You can accept it, or not. Seems you've already made up your mind and are not willing to budge.
Going to be interesting at today's practice and who's injured.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 29, 2025, 04:59:42 AMOMG, how can everyone watch the same presser and make up words in their head? Tell me in the presser where he says that.
https://www.bluebombers.com/2025/07/26/coach-oshea-july-26-4/
He made that statement during his CJOB post-game interview, which is a different than the press conference you posted.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 29, 2025, 04:11:11 PMHe made that statement during his CJOB post-game interview, which is a different than the press conference you posted.
Well that explains the divergent memories!
Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 29, 2025, 02:53:52 PMI haven't even watched the video clip, I listened on CJOB right after the game. I don't know if that is the same interview - but I maintain what I heard. You can accept it, or not. Seems you've already made up your mind and are not willing to budge.
Yowzers. I was only saying the post-game I saw didn't have that info. I forgot about the 'OB post-game, though usually they just say the same thing.
So I listened:
https://globalnews.ca/pages/audio-vault-cjob/
MOS does say the yank was "not performance related" on the 'OB. No mention of "neck" or anything specific.
Sneaky MOS doing sneaky MOS things:
Brown: "was it injury or performance related"
MOS: "it was not performance related"
Most people when asked if something is A or B will say A (or B). Leave it to MOS to say "the answer is NOT B", LOL. He's made of some mythical "C" option in his head, and he's sticking to it! ;D ;D ;D
OShea can use all the weasel words he wants, we all watched the game, Collaros stunk and MOs is standing by defending his player like he always does, good for him, it's how he gets the players to play so hard for him, but we aren't blind or stupid. We know what we saw,
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 30, 2025, 03:37:38 AMWell that explains the divergent memories!
Yowzers. I was only saying the post-game I saw didn't have that info. I forgot about the 'OB post-game, though usually they just say the same thing.
So I listened:
https://globalnews.ca/pages/audio-vault-cjob/
MOS does say the yank was "not performance related" on the 'OB. No mention of "neck" or anything specific.
no, you accused myself (and others) of making up information. If that last post had snarl it is because I don't take kindly to that. Just because you haven't heard something doesn't make it false.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 29, 2025, 05:25:17 AMUh, that may be the craziest idea I've seen yet. Arbuckle is not a #1 anywhere, never has been (even though some tried for a few games), never will be. And he's like 77 like Zach is... how is sticking with "old" going to help anything?
Arbuckle lucked into just 1 win this season before they beat us, mostly because of their D. Arbuckle only wins because of QB Whisperer Dinwiddie planning absolutely everything around him. And the very first second he can, he too will bench Arbuckle so they can start winning again.
Why would the Argos make a silly trade like that when they have Chad Kelly signed for a few more seasons?
And TOR is playing with substandard units and lack of talent, but they are playing like they intend to get better, and fast, and that they think they'll be a top team when Kelly returns. They are probably right. Contrast to the way we are playing...
That said, Arbuckle would make a good backup. However, he won't come at the $100k Strevy Kmart blue light special deal price.
All speculation at this point but given Zach missed time the game prior it would seem that he wasn't fully healed or rere-aggrivated his injury to the extent he couldn't perform due to pain or risk of long term impacts.
Neck injkuiries can be tricky/dangerous and then layered with known concussion history seems like he needs some time to heal. I am fully expecting him to miss some time. Wish it wasn't the case but that is life in sports...next man up
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 29, 2025, 05:25:17 AMUh, that may be the craziest idea I've seen yet. Arbuckle is not a #1 anywhere, never has been (even though some tried for a few games), never will be. And he's like 77 like Zach is... how is sticking with "old" going to help anything?
Arbuckle lucked into just 1 win this season before they beat us, mostly because of their D. Arbuckle only wins because of QB Whisperer Dinwiddie planning absolutely everything around him. And the very first second he can, he too will bench Arbuckle so they can start winning again.
And TOR is playing with substandard units and lack of talent, but they are playing like they intend to get better, and fast, and that they think they'll be a top team when Kelly returns. They are probably right. Contrast to the way we are playing...
That said, Arbuckle would make a good backup. However, he won't come at the $100k Strevy Kmart blue light special deal price.
Zach will soon be 37, Arbuckle is only 31, so he has at least 4-5 extra years left in the tank. With Chad Kelly established as the starter I believe Arbuckle will go to FA this off-season or demand a trade to see if he can cash in on potential earnings. Who would settle for less than $200k salary when you have the potential to make $350-400k? Whether he ends up in Wpg. or not is up to Walters.
Quote from: The Zipp on July 30, 2025, 04:48:19 PMAll speculation at this point but given Zach missed time the game prior it would seem that he wasn't fully healed or rere-aggrivated his injury to the extent he couldn't perform due to pain or risk of long term impacts.
Neck injkuiries can be tricky/dangerous and then layered with known concussion history seems like he needs some time to heal. I am fully expecting him to miss some time. Wish it wasn't the case but that is life in sports...next man up
Always the voice of wisdom Zipp!
Quote from: DM83 on July 30, 2025, 06:42:07 PMWhat's the latest? I thought someone said he was taking first team time. For offensive team work
Zach isn't playing this week.
Injury report has come out.
Quote from: gobombersgo on July 30, 2025, 07:37:32 PMZach isn't playing this week.
Injury report has come out.
Oh.
That is expected with the radio silence but not good.
Zach is out this week.
https://3downnation.com/2025/07/30/winnipeg-blue-bombers-rule-out-zach-collaros-against-toronto-argonauts/
He's out but is he only out for 1 week? Does he go on 1 game IR and become week to week for an extended time? I doubt he goes to 6 game IR but I'm not sure he's back in a week either.
I can't say I have any faith in Streveler but let him prove me wrong. The problems in other areas on the roster won't give him an easy ride.
Zach being out won't hurt us really. Offense will look different but I'd expect it to result in similar outputs.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 30, 2025, 08:33:13 PMZach being out won't hurt us really. Offense will look different but I'd expect it to result in similar outputs.
Of course it will hurt us. Collaros is better that Streveler and he's the team leader.
Can we please go heavy run?
Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 30, 2025, 08:45:59 PMCan we please go heavy run?
Can we please not get down by 3 scores so that we can afford to go heavy run?
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 30, 2025, 08:36:25 PMOf course it will hurt us. Collaros is better that Streveler and he's the team leader.
Collaros is only better when isn't throwing the ball to the other Team.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 30, 2025, 08:36:25 PMOf course it will hurt us. Collaros is better that Streveler and he's the team leader.
Not if you look at the stats this year. Not if you don't ignore that one of the apparent best things about Streveler is his leadership.
Collaros is a better QB but only over the whole. Games are won or lost today. Take a quick peak at Zach's numbers the last four outings against Toronto. They're horrible.
Bombers played this one all wrong. They should have sat ZC8 last week in TO. ZC8 would have had another week of rest to get healthier for the return game in Winnipeg this week.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 30, 2025, 09:14:29 PMNot if you look at the stats this year. Not if you don't ignore that one of the apparent best things about Streveler is his leadership.
Collaros is a better QB but only over the whole. Games are won or lost today. Take a quick peak at Zach's numbers the last four outings against Toronto. They're horrible.
He's still a better QB than Streveler even when he's playing badly. I didn't notice Streveler winning the last game when he played the 2nd half. I also didn't see him beat the Stamps in the 2nd game with his 5.4 yard average yardage ( 16 / 25 ).
Overall he's 27 / 43 and 284 yards in 2 halves of play. Those were the today you mentioned. I be hard pressed to say Streveler played any better noting he also had 2 picks including a pick 6 and a pick on the goal line. That's crap.
Quote from: DM83 on July 30, 2025, 09:27:42 PMSo, did anyone attend practice? What did Zac look like. Any new players join our first team rep guys.
Practiced was closed today and the injury report shows that Zach didn't practice
If he is injured, we need to get another QB. Streveler was never the backup QB that would take over from Collaros. We should have gotten V.A. or Arbuckle when they were available.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 30, 2025, 08:33:13 PMZach being out won't hurt us really. Offense will look different but I'd expect it to result in similar outputs.
Heavily disagree, a healthy gun slinging Zach is >>>>>>> Strev
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 30, 2025, 05:32:15 PMZach will soon be 37, Arbuckle is only 31, so he has at least 4-5 extra years left in the tank. With Chad Kelly established as the starter I believe Arbuckle will go to FA this off-season or demand a trade to see if he can cash in on potential earnings. Who would settle for less than $200k salary when you have the potential to make $350-400k? Whether he ends up in Wpg. or not is up to Walters.
Hard pass ,not a huge fan really at any price
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 30, 2025, 08:36:25 PMOf course it will hurt us. Collaros is better that Streveler and he's the team leader.
Yup, significant factor
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 30, 2025, 09:14:29 PMNot if you look at the stats this year. Not if you don't ignore that one of the apparent best things about Streveler is his leadership.
Collaros is a better QB but only over the whole. Games are won or lost today. Take a quick peak at Zach's numbers the last four outings against Toronto. They're horrible.
A healthy Zach regardless of those past struggles is light years ahead of Strev due to his ability to throw a deep ball consistently on a dime
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 30, 2025, 10:15:34 PMHe's still a better QB than Streveler even when he's playing badly. I didn't notice Streveler winning the last game when he played the 2nd half. I also didn't see him beat the Stamps in the 2nd game with his 5.4 yard average yardage ( 16 / 25 ).
Overall he's 27 / 43 and 284 yards in 2 halves of play. Those were the today you mentioned. I be hard pressed to say Streveler played any better noting he also had 2 picks including a pick 6 and a pick on the goal line. That's crap.
A concise analysis and heavy agree all
I still like and believe in Strev though to win games in a pinch
We can compete if we go ball control, run oriented offense. Strev starts putting the ball up and it's going to be pick city or 2 and out.
No Bryant, no schoen , change at safety and corner back , This game could be the ugliest game in the MOS era.
Quote from: dd on July 31, 2025, 03:14:06 AMWe can compete if we go ball control, run oriented offense. Strev starts putting the ball up and it's going to be pick city or 2 and out.
No Bryant, no schoen , change at safety and corner back , This game could be the ugliest game in the MOS era.
Might work but the defence has to play much better than they have lately, no explosions given up and create a few timely turnovers. If they can win the turnover battle, they at least stand a chance.
Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 30, 2025, 02:10:40 PMno, you accused myself (and others) of making up information. If that last post had snarl it is because I don't take kindly to that. Just because you haven't heard something doesn't make it false.
I didn't mean to offend. I was just trying to get to the truth of the matter and quash misreporting, which often occurs here (it's not anyone's fault, it's a forum where info flies fast.)
As I said, the problem was "your post-game interview" said one thing, "my post-game interview" said another. It's an easy an honest mistake because we're not always thinking about the other guy's presser -- it's easy to forget there are 2, sometimes 3, of these things post-game. As far as I was aware I was speaking the truth.
Keep in mind, the entire first page of this thread was stuff like "it's a neck injury officially". I can definitively say that there was no mention of neck or any specific area in
either post-game presser. So that indeed was "fake news" if presented as something MOS said post-game. Only July 30 did we learn it was indeed neck from MOS.
I apologize for conflating the TSN vs OB pressers, and I think it would good for the forum if people prefixed their "post-game" with either TSN or OB. I'll try to start doing that myself.
I'm officially eating a lot of crow. Zach is really injured, rather than being pulled just to save his life, being behind a bad OL.
I was thinking more along the lines of concussion, and I really didn't see any cause for that in the TOR game. But I forgot the ol' neck.
You get a crick or a tweak in your neck and you can have trouble turning it even slightly. And the pain can go from minor to paralyzed on the couch. Been there, done that. And it lingers until one day it just vanishes.
And Zach had neck tweak problems in previous years, so any re-aggravation isn't helping.
We'll just have to hope he'll be back soon. In the past his "neck" issues took no more than 2-3 weeks, right?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 31, 2025, 07:20:02 AMI'm officially eating a lot of crow. Zach is really injured, rather than being pulled just to save his life, being behind a bad OL.
I was thinking more along the lines of concussion, and I really didn't see any cause for that in the TOR game. But I forgot the ol' neck.
You get a crick or a tweak in your neck and you can have trouble turning it even slightly. And the pain can go from minor to paralyzed on the couch. Been there, done that. And it lingers until one day it just vanishes.
And Zach had neck tweak problems in previous years, so any re-aggravation isn't helping.
We'll just have to hope he'll be back soon. In the past his "neck" issues took no more than 2-3 weeks, right?
I don't think Zach's ever missed more than a game at a time with us. Probably should have just taken last week off, I guess.
Quote from: Jesse on July 31, 2025, 12:44:51 PMI don't think Zach's ever missed more than a game at a time with us. Probably should have just taken last week off, I guess.
Your right he doesn't a lot of games. Just drug tests. LOL. I am hearing he has strained neck muscles, similar to a whiplash type of injury.
Quote from: Pigskin on July 31, 2025, 12:52:38 PMYour right he doesn't a lot of games. Just drug tests. LOL. I am hearing he has strained neck muscles, similar to a whiplash type of injury.
Makes sense with that initial hit he took.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 30, 2025, 10:15:34 PMHe's still a better QB than Streveler even when he's playing badly. I didn't notice Streveler winning the last game when he played the 2nd half. I also didn't see him beat the Stamps in the 2nd game with his 5.4 yard average yardage ( 16 / 25 ).
Overall he's 27 / 43 and 284 yards in 2 halves of play. Those were the today you mentioned. I be hard pressed to say Streveler played any better noting he also had 2 picks including a pick 6 and a pick on the goal line. That's crap.
Zach Collaros is 90 of 123 (73%) for 1031 yards passing. 7 TDs 8 INTs (17 yards rushing)
Chris Streveler is 47 of 74 (63%) for 558 yards passing. 5 TDs, 3 INTs (63 yards rushing)
Look at the actual outputs and tell me that Streveler starting is going to make a significant difference? If it's a downgrade it's a
very slight downgrade based on play in 2025.
Time to be honest with what we
have versus what
we think we have. Despite our $600,000 quarterback not playing, the results from that spot are going to be similar if past performance this season is year main basis for reason. And I argue they should be because we're not playing games in 2022 anymore.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 31, 2025, 01:31:18 PMZach Collaros is 90 of 123 (73%) for 1031 yards passing. 7 TDs 8 INTs (17 yards rushing)
Chris Streveler is 47 of 74 (63%) for 558 yards passing. 5 TDs, 3 INTs (63 yards rushing)
Look at the actual outputs and tell me that Streveler starting is going to make a significant difference? If it's a downgrade it's a very slight downgrade based on play in 2025.
Time to be honest with what we have versus what we think we have. Despite our $600,000 quarterback not playing, the results from that spot are going to be similar if past performance this season is year main basis for reason. And I argue they should be.
I see the results over the last 2 games but disagree. I don't have blue coloured glasses. Obviously Collaros was and is injured. Streveler throws a horrible ball and telegraphs more throws. When did 63% become better than 73%? Noting that not all int's are the fault of the QB.
OL issues and inconsistent receivers aren't helping our offence. Play calling has not been good. Penalties as well.
Stats are a funny thing. Wheatfall drops a TD pass in the end zone. Sterns drops a pass on the 5 yard line resulting in a turnover. Neither were the fault of Collaros. Those are just 2 examples that impacted the stats.
V. Adams has 9 TD's and 6 int's. Collaros missed game 1 and missed half of 2 games for a total of 4 games. His ratio of TD's per time played is greater than Adams. Obviously his int ratio is worse but there are extenuating issues for every QB.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 31, 2025, 01:42:37 PMPlay calling has not been good.
This is what's getting to me. What is Hogan doing as OC? Both QBs are making similar mistakes, so it begs the question: what is going on with the play-calling?
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 31, 2025, 01:44:25 PMThis is what's getting to me. What is Hogan doing as OC? Both QBs are making similar mistakes, so it begs the question: what is going on with the play-calling?
OL is inconsistent and receivers are not the best in the CFL. Lack of time is causing forced throws that are predictable to the defence and dangerous to throw. Many look like last resort options rather than primary calls.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 31, 2025, 01:42:37 PMI see the results over the last 2 games but disagree. I don't have blue coloured glasses. Obviously Collaros was and is injured. Streveler throws a horrible ball and telegraphs more throws. When did 63% become better than 73%? Noting that not all int's are the fault of the QB.
OL issues and inconsistent receivers aren't helping our offence. Play calling has not been good. Penalties as well.
Stats are a funny thing. Wheatfall drops a TD pass in the end zone. Sterns drops a pass on the 5 yard line resulting in a turnover. Neither were the fault of Collaros. Those are just 2 examples that impacted the stats.
V. Adams has 9 TD's and 6 int's. Collaros missed game 1 and missed half of 2 games for a total of 4 games. His ratio of TD's per time played is greater than Adams. Obviously his int ratio is worse but there are extenuating issues for every QB.
... If it's not Collaros' fault for his numbers then it's not Strevelers' either. So I ask again, won't the output be similar? The results are the results no matter how it "looks".
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 31, 2025, 01:44:25 PMThis is what's getting to me. What is Hogan doing as OC? Both QBs are making similar mistakes, so it begs the question: what is going on with the play-calling?
Hogan has a lot to prove, but the players make the play call look good or bad sometimes too.
His OL , WR core, and QB have been in constant flux in every game. Kind of hard to build up your offence that way.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 31, 2025, 01:49:34 PM... If it's not Collaros' fault for his numbers then it's not Strevelers' either. So I ask again, won't the output be similar?
If we're hoping for more of the same, sure.
If we're hoping that this season at some point starts to improve, I think the best bet is on Zach. His baseline is more successful than what we've been seeing, whereas Strev is what he is.
Quote from: Jesse on July 31, 2025, 01:52:10 PMIf we're hoping for more of the same, sure.
If we're hoping that this season at some point starts to improve, I think the best bet is on Zach. His baseline is more successful than what we've been seeing, whereas Strev is what he is.
Ya. I 100% agree with you there. You're right.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 31, 2025, 01:49:34 PM... If it's not Collaros' fault for his numbers then it's not Strevelers' either. So I ask again, won't the output be similar?
We'd have to go over each pick and determine where to place blame and what % goes to the QB. Compare Streveler's pick running left and throwing a pick at the goal line to Stern catching and then dropping the pass resulting in a pick.
Both QB's have thrown flat out pick 6's they shouldn't have thrown.
I'm saying that overall Streveler is more prone to bad passes / decisions than Collaros. His accuracy and touch are less.
63% versus 73%. Yes, we'd have to go back and determine how many passes were catchable and how many were intentionally thrown away.
Like I said, it's possible to prove just about anything with stats depending on how you want to assess them.
Streveler could win the game. Part of the question will be whether he got positive or negative help from the rest of the team.
Winning or losing is never just on the QB.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 31, 2025, 01:56:43 PMWe'd have to go over each pick and determine where to place blame and what % goes to the QB. Compare Streveler's pick running left and throwing a pick at the goal line to Stern catching and then dropping the pass resulting in a pick.
Both QB's have thrown flat out pick 6's they shouldn't have thrown.
I'm saying that overall Streveler is more prone to bad passes / decisions than Collaros. His accuracy and touch are less.
63% versus 73%. Yes, we'd have to go back and determine how many passes were catchable and how many were intentionally thrown away.
Like I said, it's possible to prove just about anything with stats depending on how you want to assess them.
Streveler could win the game. Part of the question will be whether he got positive or negative help from the rest of the team.
Winning or losing is never just on the QB.
I agree with you I think. Collaros is the better quarterback and always has been. But in the game tomorrow, I'm just pointing out that the QB output is very likely to be exactly the same. Heck, anyone could easily pull Zach's stats against Toronto defense and make a safe case that Streveler might do better. Collaros probably couldn't do much worse, in any event.
I'm talking about just tomorrow.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 31, 2025, 01:49:03 PMOL is inconsistent and receivers are not the best in the CFL. Lack of time is causing forced throws that are predictable to the defence and dangerous to throw. Many look like last resort options rather than primary calls.
Wouldn't that suggest the play-calling needs to be simplified? This current stretch of ineptitude looks like a good way to get into bad habits, especially for younger players.
Quote from: Jesse on July 31, 2025, 01:50:31 PMHogan has a lot to prove, but the players make the play call look good or bad sometimes too.
His OL , WR core, and QB have been in constant flux in every game. Kind of hard to build up your offence that way.
The players have just as much to prove but these issues look systemic at times, not just personnel-related.
Compared to last year at this time when the team was struggling with injuries and whatnot, the offense looked much more composed.
Oliveira seems like an afterthought at times, too. It's all just really confounding to me.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 31, 2025, 01:58:45 PMI agree with you I think. Collaros is the better quarterback and always has been. But in the game tomorrow, I'm just pointing out that the QB output is very likely to be exactly the same. Heck, anyone could easily pull Zach's stats against Toronto defense and make a case pretty easily that Streveler might do better. Collaros probably couldn't do much worse, in any event.
I'm taking about just tomorrow.
Well we didn't know that Collaros was dealing with a neck injury. Based on being pulled for what we thought was concussion protocol changes the analysis. I suppose it explains part of the poor performance against the Argos.
In no way does Collaros get a free pass for that either.
OTOH, if Collaros was not out and played on Friday I would have expected a better performance than the last game. I would have expected a home win and end to the slid.
So it's an impossible analysis in that sense. Judgment is based on a healthy players.
Now we just have to hope that Streveler doesn't self destruct and that DB's don't get beat easily. Receivers need to find ways to help and the OL needs to give him some time.
To be continued on Saturday and see how it went and where success or blame can be attributed. Fingers are crossed.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 31, 2025, 02:09:12 PMWell we didn't know that Collaros was dealing with a neck injury. Based on being pulled for what we thought was concussion protocol changes the analysis. I suppose it explains part of the poor performance against the Argos.
In no way does Collaros get a free pass for that either.
OTOH, if Collaros was not out and played on Friday I would have expected a better performance than the last game. I would have expected a home win and end to the slid.
So it's an impossible analysis in that sense. Judgment is based on a healthy players.
Now we just have to hope that Streveler doesn't self destruct and that DB's don't get beat easily. Receivers need to find ways to help and the OL needs to give him some time.
To be continued on Saturday and see how it went and where success or blame can be attributed. Fingers are crossed.
Unfortunately, I think that's just wishful thinking or a healthy sense of denial. Was he hurt most of last year too? Want the 2024 stats? They're the exact same as the 2025 stats so far. When you're a 36 year old quarterback (37 in three weeks) in the CFL you're probably always going to be kind of banged up, right?
I'm a big Zach fan. Best Bombers QB in decades. I think the lemon is squeezed though. The eyeball test isn't good. The number (over a sustained period) aren't either. You could never make the case that Streveler would be interchangable with Collaros in 2019 through 2023 and parts of 2024. You can now. Even that should have alarm bells ringing.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 31, 2025, 02:08:25 PMWouldn't that suggest the play-calling needs to be simplified? This current stretch of ineptitude looks a good way to get into bad habits, especially for younger players.
The players have just as much to prove but these issues look systemic at times, not just personnel-related.
Compared to last year at this time when the team was struggling with injuries and whatnot, the offense looked much more composed.
Oliveira seems like an afterthought at times, too. It's all just really confounding to me.
Fair points. Hogan should be taking some heat as well. OTOH at times it's overly simplified to short passes to the boundaries.
Even if we can't complete every deep pass, we should be throwing deep a bit more. Defence is crowding the LOS.
I've lost track but there was a deeper throw to Demski that was picked. It was inches away from a completion or a simple knock down. That may have been in the last game against the Stamps or the game against the Argos. Several picks were on passes to Demski. Some were bad throws, some were close and some were great defensive plays.
I'm not blaming Demski, just saying we aren't getting much production from Sterns, Clercius, Wheatfall or Case consistently. It's more hit and miss while Demski " delivers" more often than not.
Either way is shows how the game is a game of inches.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 31, 2025, 02:14:12 PMUnfortunately, I think that's just wishful thinking or a healthy sense of denial. Was he hurt most of last year too? Want the 2024 stats? They're the exact same as the 2025 stats so far. When you're a 36 year old quarterback (37 in three weeks) in the CFL you're probably always going to be kind of banged up, right?
I'm a big Zach fan. Best QB Bombers QB is decades. I think the lemon is squeezed though. The eyeball test isn't good. The number (over a sustained period) aren't either. You could never make the case that Streveler would be interchangable with Collaros in 2019 through 2023 and parts of 2024. You can now. Even that should have alarm bells ringing.
Last year he was 17/15 and often had the best QB rating during the season. Over the last 2 seasons he was 50 / 30.
So no 2024 was not the same as 7 / 8 in 2025. Yes he's in decline like any player that age. Yes, he suffered many injuries last year including a damaged finger in the Grey Cup.
In 2025 he missed game 1 due to his suspension and I think he only had one series in pre season. Those factors also meant less reps in practice leading to the start of the season.
It seems we've often been behind early due to defensive play. That has taken away our bread and butter with our run game focus. Run game opens up the passing game and vice versa. Even our ST play has given us poor field position or great field position for our opponent.
It would be interesting to know average field position and TOP for each game.
2025 is the 1st season that Bryant will miss 3 consecutive games. We don't have Lawler or O. Wilson. Schoen missed most of 2024 but took an early exit in 2025. Lofton played all 18 games.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 31, 2025, 02:38:33 PM2025 is the 1st season that Bryant will miss 3 consecutive games. We don't have Lawler or O. Wilson. Schoen missed most of 2024 but took an early exit in 2025. Lofton played all 18 games.
How nice would it be to get Ontaria Wilson back near the end of the season...
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 31, 2025, 02:08:25 PMThe players have just as much to prove but these issues look systemic at times, not just personnel-related.
Compared to last year at this time when the team was struggling with injuries and whatnot, the offense looked much more composed.
Oliveira seems like an afterthought at times, too. It's all just really confounding to me.
We're actually scoring more than last year through the first 6 games.
Quote from: Jesse on July 31, 2025, 04:21:43 PMWe're actually scoring more than last year through the first 6 games.
Which makes it all the more confounding. Would those numbers be bolstered by the first three games?
In 2024, Bryant, Lofton and Dobson all played 18 games. So did Korny. Only Neufeld missed 4 games.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 31, 2025, 05:12:08 PMIn 2024, Bryant, Lofton and Dobson all played 18 games. So did Korny. Only Neufeld missed 4 games.
I don't even need to look to tell you that isn't true. Bryant had that episode where he collapsed on the field at home in Winnipeg and was out a couple weeks after. Very scary.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 31, 2025, 05:17:42 PMI don't even need to look to tell you that isn't true. Bryant had that episode where he collapsed on the field at home in Winnipeg and was out a couple weeks after. Very scary.
You're right. I forgot about that and I'm not sure what I was looking at in his career stats. Regardless, the fact the OL was significantly more consistent in 2024 is not in error. LG has gone back and forth nearly every game. LT is now seeing the 3rd player there.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 31, 2025, 05:12:08 PMIn 2024, Bryant, Lofton and Dobson all played 18 games. So did Korny. Only Neufeld missed 4 games.
Kolankowski? The team can only have one Korny!
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 31, 2025, 05:21:19 PMYou're right. I forgot about that and I'm not sure what I was looking at in his career stats. Regardless, the fact the OL was significantly more consistent in 2024 is not in error. LG has gone back and forth nearly every game. LT is now seeing the 3rd player there.
You're right about the rest, just triple checked. And it's a fair point.
Quote from: Jesse on July 31, 2025, 04:21:43 PMWe're actually scoring more than last year through the first 6 games.
2 words: garbage time
Quote from: LXTSN on July 31, 2025, 03:27:24 PMHow nice would it be to get Ontaria Wilson back near the end of the season...
Help me Ontari Wan Wilsonobi, you're my only hope.
That's what I'm banking on. That and Schoen not being a season-ender.
Pokey Schoen Demski Wheatie Clercius -- would be a very respectable REC corps. Without it (or a helicopter drop) our season will be one-n-done.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 31, 2025, 01:44:25 PMThis is what's getting to me. What is Hogan doing as OC? Both QBs are making similar mistakes, so it begs the question: what is going on with the play-calling?
And yet everyone loved Hogan in the 1st 3 games! We managed to beat BC twice, and they've shown they can win games, even beating MTL.
I'm not ready to put the blame on Hogan yet. After all, he has added the delayed draw to the repertoire, and you know I just love a delayed draw.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 31, 2025, 01:42:37 PMI see the results over the last 2 games but disagree. I don't have blue coloured glasses. Obviously Collaros was and is injured. Streveler throws a horrible ball and telegraphs more throws.
The difference between Zach and Strev is Zach still commands respect as he can still rip off a 400Y like he did earlier this season. Strev will never have a 400 yarder.
Because they don't respect Strev, they'll cheat up on every pass they can looking for the INT.
It doesn't help that with Strev's current knee condition he's probably SLOWER than Zach (!!) making his bootlegs and scrambles pretty ugly and useless.
However, we can hope Strev gets more mobile & faster with time. Is the brace off yet?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 01, 2025, 03:26:07 AMAnd yet everyone loved Hogan in the 1st 3 games! We managed to beat BC twice, and they've shown they can win games, even beating MTL.
I'm not ready to put the blame on Hogan yet. After all, he has added the delayed draw to the repertoire, and you know I just love a delayed draw.
Everyone loved him in game one, the next two games had a lot of the same stuff we're seeing now.
Quote from: Jesse on August 01, 2025, 03:46:48 AMEveryone loved him in game one, the next two games had a lot of the same stuff we're seeing now.
It was the 2nd game Hogan put up 400Y+...
Quote from: LXTSN on July 31, 2025, 03:27:24 PMHow nice would it be to get Ontaria Wilson back near the end of the season...
Won't matter much if we don't have an good Team.
Quote from: BBFANDM on August 01, 2025, 04:05:53 AMWon't matter much if we don't have an good Team.
We have a great team! We just have 2-4 problem (non-performing) players and injuries. Even just 2 key guys might turn this ship around. The base is there, and the core is there, and the culture is there. It's funny, the hard stuff is ok/done, it's the easy stuff we have to do.
Benching Bridges was step #1.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 01, 2025, 04:10:22 AMWe have a great team! We just have 2-4 problem (non-performing) players and injuries. Even just 2 key guys might turn this ship around. The base is there, and the core is there, and the culture is there. It's funny, the hard stuff is ok/done, it's the easy stuff we have to do.
Benching Bridges was step #1.
We had a great team the past 5 years, I am not sure we do any longer.
We saw tonight what a difference a QB makes... CGY without Adams, OTT with Brown.
Without a healthy Collaros... well.
Quote from: BBFANDM on August 01, 2025, 04:26:12 AMWe had a great team the past 5 years, I am not sure we do any longer.
I would have to agree with this statement. I just don't see the old mojo in this team like the prior 5+ seasons. Injuries are decimating the team too. Can only patch 'em up for so long. The talent pipeline has maybe given out a bit too. Even last year when at 0-4 and 2-6 I still had faith in them as most losses were by small margins. Now it's 3 blowouts in a row. worst stretch since 2014 I've read a few places.
I believe they have a ton of cap room as never used up that expanded cap announced around free agency period. It this collapse continues, then they better begin an ol "George Brancato" airlift of NFL cuts. The fans deserve it with a home Grey Cup year to not throw in the towel. I think the writing is on the wall already though a major roster overhaul could be coming next season if they stink the rest of this season. Some long in the tooth vets need to move on as just not cutting it anymore in my observation or just becoming injury prone.
Quote from: theaardvark on August 01, 2025, 05:30:12 AMWe saw tonight what a difference a QB makes... CGY without Adams, OTT with Brown.
Without a healthy Collaros... well.
Though Strev has his deficiencies he has proven he can win games as a back up on a consistent basis.
Streveler is better than Zach. Not a high bar but still addition by subtraction. Put him on the 6 game and save salary for late season pickups. Getting Powell out of Hammy should be priority 2. Priority 1 is roster management. Why start 9 Nationals.....? Dumb.
Quote from: Strevy on August 01, 2025, 01:01:09 PMStreveler is better than Zach. Not a high bar but still addition by subtraction. Put him on the 6 game and save salary for late season pickups. Getting Powell out of Hammy should be priority 2. Priority 1 is roster management. Why start 9 Nationals.....? Dumb.
If Collaros goes on the 6-game, I'd like to see Wilson get a couple games. We know what Strev can do, and he can help us win a game here and there. If Zach were to hang up the cleats after this season, I don't think Streveler would be a good full time starter. I want to know if Terry has what it takes!
You'd think after 20 or 30 years of watching football. And clamouring for the back-up QB to get a shot. And watching the back-up suck completely over and over and over, people would learn that they're at the back of the depth chart for a reason.
Quote from: Jesse on August 01, 2025, 01:15:11 PMYou'd think after 20 or 30 years of watching football. And clamouring for the back-up QB to get a shot. And watching the back-up suck completely over and over and over, people would learn that they're at the back of the depth chart for a reason.
I maybe should rephrase that.
I don't think that Terry has what it takes. There are other guys on the NEG list that I really like and think they would be a better fit. I would like him to get 2-3 games as an audition for our future.
In the other thread about the Bombers 3rd best QB of the century, it's funny to hear some of the names of QB's we tried out in-between these 3 guys. There's going to be some trail and error before we find our next one.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 01, 2025, 03:26:07 AMAnd yet everyone loved Hogan in the 1st 3 games! We managed to beat BC twice, and they've shown they can win games, even beating MTL.
I'm not ready to put the blame on Hogan yet. After all, he has added the delayed draw to the repertoire, and you know I just love a delayed draw.
I'll be the first to admit I was pleasantly surprised by the first three games. The offense looked like it hadn't missed a beat.
The last three games have me pivoting, though. Hogan deserves his fair share of the blame just as the rest of the offense does, IMO. They need to improve as a whole, which includes how the OC gameplans and prepares.
Quote from: LXTSN on August 01, 2025, 01:20:52 PMI maybe should rephrase that.
I don't think that Terry has what it takes. There are other guys on the NEG list that I really like and think they would be a better fit. I would like him to get 2-3 games as an audition for our future.
In the other thread about the Bombers 3rd best QB of the century, it's funny to hear some of the names of QB's we tried out in-between these 3 guys. There's going to be some trail and error before we find our next one.
I agree with you. We have kept Wilson around for a reason. We'll need to find out if we should be keeping him around for next year. I'd like to see him play, but that will all depend on Strev.
Quote from: LXTSN on August 01, 2025, 01:20:52 PMI maybe should rephrase that.
I don't think that Terry has what it takes. There are other guys on the NEG list that I really like and think they would be a better fit. I would like him to get 2-3 games as an audition for our future.
In the other thread about the Bombers 3rd best QB of the century, it's funny to hear some of the names of QB's we tried out in-between these 3 guys. There's going to be some trail and error before we find our next one.
Maybe there'll be a time this season to give a young QB a shot "just to see", but not while we're in play off contention in a home Grey Cup year. The "best team in the league" just dropped two in a row. The last team people said that about has their starting QB on the 6 game IR. There is still a lot of season to go so we need to continue to put our best foot forward every week.
In the absence of Zach, that means Strev goes in.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on August 01, 2025, 01:47:32 PMI'll be the first to admit I was pleasantly surprised by the first three games. The offense looked like it hadn't missed a beat.
The last three games have me pivoting, though. Hogan deserves his fair share of the blame just as the rest of the offense does, IMO. They need to improve as a whole, which includes how the OC gameplans and prepares.
Even during the wins, we were criticizing the "lulls" where we seemed to have long stretches of throwing the ball to the line of scrimmage repeatedly and drives stalling.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 01, 2025, 03:29:24 AMBecause they don't respect Strev, they'll cheat up on every pass they can looking for the INT.
This would be a mistake I hope they make. We can make them pay with stop and go type routes. At this stage Strev has a considerably stronger arm than Collaros.
What I don't like is just the one practice for Strev at QB1 this week.
Quote from: Waffler on August 01, 2025, 02:18:34 PMThis would be a mistake I hope they make. We can make them pay with stop and go type routes. At this stage Strev has a considerably stronger arm than Collaros.
What I don't like is just the one practice for Strev at QB1 this week.
I'm not sure that's true. Zach can hit Demski and Schoen in stride on those corner routes, but I don't think Strev has that in him. Strev has put some nice zip on the ball on his out routes and throws over the middle this season though!
Quote from: LXTSN on August 01, 2025, 02:24:23 PMI'm not sure that's true. Zach can hit Demski and Schoen in stride on those corner routes, but I don't think Strev has that in him. Strev has put some nice zip on the ball on his out routes and throws over the middle this season though!
For the past season and this one, Collaros misses far more than he makes. Chronically underthrows the deep ball.
Quote from: Jesse on August 01, 2025, 01:48:56 PMMaybe there'll be a time this season to give a young QB a shot "just to see", but not while we're in play off contention in a home Grey Cup year. The "best team in the league" just dropped two in a row. The last team people said that about has their starting QB on the 6 game IR. There is still a lot of season to go so we need to continue to put our best foot forward every week.
In the absence of Zach, that means Strev goes in.
Can't see it under O'Shea, he only allows Strev to play when Zach is out, same goes for Wilson who's stuck behind Strev. Could be headed off another cliff in the playoffs if Zach gets hurt, but why do anything to avoid that scenario, Strev can win games every once in awhile. He's terrible at developing QB's, they should hand that role to Jackson and tell O'Shea to keep his fingers out of the pie.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 01, 2025, 06:12:50 PMCan't see it under O'Shea, he only allows Strev to play when Zach is out, same goes for Wilson who's stuck behind Strev. Could be headed off another cliff in the playoffs if Zach gets hurt, but why do anything to avoid that scenario, Strev can win games every once in awhile. He's terrible at developing QB's, they should hand that role to Jackson and tell O'Shea to keep his fingers out of the pie.
::)
Quote from: Jesse on August 01, 2025, 06:17:36 PM::)
I'm not wrong. What happened last season? What changes have been implemented to avoid the exact same scenario from occurring?
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 01, 2025, 07:14:09 PMI'm not wrong, imagine working somewhere for 2
I'm not wrong. What happened last season? What changes have been implemented to avoid the exact same scenario from occurring?
We've been in contention for first place every year. There is very little opportunity/desire/reason to remove your starting QB in those conditions. Strev is an experienced back-up. Having him hand off the ball a couple of times in the 4th Qtr isn't going to help him prepare. Wilson is 3rd string for a reason. Having him on the field isn't desired or helpful when we're trying to win.
If you're a bad team and keeping an eye on the future, then maybe you look for those opportunities.
Streveler is calm, cool and composed. It's his team now. Thanks Zach. But your services are no longer needed......
Quote from: Strevy on August 02, 2025, 02:08:45 AMStreveler is calm, cool and composed. It's his team now. Thanks Zach. But your services are no longer needed......
completely agree. He's the best
He was so calm, cool and composed that he only threw 3 INTS and threw for a whopping 170 yards against one of the worst defenses in the CFL. I'd hate to see his numbers if he was panicking and non-composed.
Wake up he's not good
Quote from: Strevy on August 02, 2025, 02:08:45 AMStreveler is calm, cool and composed. It's his team now. Thanks Zach. But your services are no longer needed......
Lmao
Streveler wins. Collaros loses. 6 game him then trade to Hammy for Powell if they take him. Bye bye Zach.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on August 01, 2025, 12:45:19 PMThough Strev has his deficiencies he has proven he can win games as a back up on a consistent basis.
Everyone bash Strev (or Zach!) as much as you want, but ponder this:
2025 winsZach 2
Strev 2
As Milt will tell you, the W is all that counts.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 01, 2025, 07:14:09 PMI'm not wrong. What happened last season? What changes have been implemented to avoid the exact same scenario from occurring?
Simple, you pray your QB is healthy all post-season. That's it. That's all.
Look at CGY. If VAJ goes down in for the post-season they are ROYALLY SCREWED. Same in SSK. Haha, Maier winning them a GC, is even more laughable and Arbuckle doing it.
That's how you generally go deep in the post-season in the CFL. You hope & pray your franchise QB is healthy.
Any other scenario is an unusual abberation. Like TOR winning the GC in '24.
Ok, there are 2 other options that can work:
1) Your #2 QB is a wunderkind rookie (MTL's Alexander last season)
2) Your #1 is toast
before the deadline so you can finagle a trade for the best backup out there on a team that won't be in the playoffs or has way too many QBs (Collaros to WPG anyone?)
I think our O as a whole has a lot of room to grow. Some questionable play calls, some bad reads, and our run game isn't firing on all cylinders right now. Given the win to our D and the KR team.
We're hoping that, at some point, we have a healthy Zach and Stan. Maybe a late season signing of Pokey. Maybe even a healthy Schoen.
As long as we can keep pace while we're waiting for those things to happen, there's hope.
Hey - at least Wilson looked good on his short yardage plays. If Zach's out next week, I'd like to see us go hurryup after a Wilson short play. Throw one deep.
Wake up. Strev didn't do much last night except try to give away the 21 points the special teams and D gave him.
Vaval won the game with an assist from Jefferson.
Quote from: BomberFan73 on August 02, 2025, 01:14:00 PMHey - at least Wilson looked good on his short yardage plays. If Zach's out next week, I'd like to see us go hurryup after a Wilson short play. Throw one deep.
Demski looked very quick last night. 2 carries for 30 yards. Strev17, 4 for 25. Really made up for BO20, 2.9 yard avg.
Quote from: TBURGESS on August 02, 2025, 03:22:25 PMWake up. Strev didn't do much last night except try to give away the 21 points the special teams and D gave him.
Vaval won the game with an assist from Jefferson.
Agreed. Vavalhad the game of his life and our D line Jefferson must have had 8 knockdowns+++an incredible display.
Strev did everything he could to lose the game yet is herslded as some saviour, I just don't get why fans are reluctant to give their praise to those who deserve it vs praise some bumpkin who almost lost them the game
Let's be clear here, we won the game DESPITE streveller not because of streveller !!
Quote from: TBURGESS on August 02, 2025, 03:22:25 PMWake up. Strev didn't do much last night except try to give away the 21 points the special teams and D gave him.
Vaval won the game with an assist from Jefferson.
Looks like he is 2-0 as a starter to me. He brings the fire and energy to this team. Why did everyone else play better? Strevy, bottom line.
Quote from: dd on August 02, 2025, 03:40:56 PMAgreed. Vavalhad the game of his life and our D line Jefferson must have had 8 knockdowns+++an incredible display.
Strev did everything he could to lose the game yet is herslded as some saviour, I just don't get why fans are reluctant to give their praise to those who deserve it vs praise some bumpkin who almost lost them the game
Let's be clear here, we won the game DESPITE streveller not because of streveller !!
Going back to last season Strev generates on average 1 TD per game, the D has to play extraordinarily well to win games with that level of output. So far this season the defence looks to be middle of the pack, even when they play fairly well there seems to be plenty of weakness and breakdowns. Hopefully Kramdi can be the one to unite the secondary in the next few games, as it looks like they are lacking leadership.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 02, 2025, 08:15:38 AMSimple, you pray your QB is healthy all post-season. That's it. That's all.
Look at CGY. If VAJ goes down in for the post-season they are ROYALLY SCREWED. Same in SSK. Haha, Maier winning them a GC, is even more laughable and Arbuckle doing it.
That's how you generally go deep in the post-season in the CFL. You hope & pray your franchise QB is healthy.
Any other scenario is an unusual abberation. Like TOR winning the GC in '24.
Ok, there are 2 other options that can work:
1) Your #2 QB is a wunderkind rookie (MTL's Alexander last season)
2) Your #1 is toast before the deadline so you can finagle a trade for the best backup out there on a team that won't be in the playoffs or has way too many QBs (Collaros to WPG anyone?)
Who cares about the loser's strategy? The Bombers 2 biggest rivals for the GC, the Als and the Argos, both have 2nd string QB's in place capable of winning games in the playoffs. Also odds are Strev. can't stay healthy through the playoffs, I believe he's 1 for 3 on that count and the one time he made it, he was playing with a broken bone.
Great game by Strev
He did what he needed to do!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 02, 2025, 04:01:51 PMGoing back to last season Strev generates on average 1 TD per game, the D has to play extraordinarily well to win games with that level of output. So far this season the defence looks to be middle of the pack, even when they play fairly well there seems to be plenty of weakness and breakdowns. Hopefully Kramdi can be the one to unite the secondary in the next few games, as it looks like they are lacking leadership.
The D line, primarily Jefferson played a HUGE role in the victory knocking down at least 8 passes and forcing a fumble they returned for a TD. I don't think they could have played any better. Our secondary, yeesh, they are our weakest link and as long as the D line can knock down passes and pressure the ball, that will minimize exposing our backend for big plays. Against VAJ expecting plays, lots of em
I wonder what Zach would do with an O line that can't open a hole for Brady Oliveira, and a team with, (as nearly as I can tell) one running play, and one effective offensive weapon, Demski.
Our game plan on O ... whatever it is, (and it doesn't look like much) has been figured out by all of the other teams. I hope there is a bit of a shakeup there. Last season, in difficult circumstances, the Elks had the league leading Offence under Jarious.
Wilson is great at short yardage, so there's that.
Quote from: markf on August 02, 2025, 07:37:30 PMI wonder what Zach would do with an O line that can't open a hole for Brady Oliveira, and a team with, (as nearly as I can tell) one running play, and one effective offensive weapon, Demski.
Our game plan on O ... whatever it is, (and it doesn't look like much) has been figured out by all of the other teams.
Wilson is great at short yardage, so there's that.
This off-season most of the Other teams got better, and we got worse.
All sports dynasties and mini dynasties have an end point. You never know, specially with OShea, but we sure look like we've reached it.
I've certainly had those thoughts myself. But it's also worth noting we are missing Collaros, Bryant, Vanterpool, and Schoen. Three of those are high impact players. Collaros and Bryant will be back. Vanterpool also, and ratio permitting I think he's an upgrade on Wallace. I'm hoping Schoen might be back also later in the year. Peyton Logan will also eventually be healthy although not sure how we get him on the roster the way Vaval is playing. We could also get Pokey Wilson back before the playoffs.
So although that offensive performance last night was awful (and against a team giving up an average of over 29 points a game), things could get better.
Quote from: bunker on August 02, 2025, 07:53:31 PMI've certainly had those thoughts myself. But it's also worth noting we are missing Collaros, Bryant, Vanterpool, and Schoen. Three of those are high impact players. Collaros and Bryant will be back. Vanterpool also, and ratio permitting I think he's an upgrade on Wallace. I'm hoping Schoen might be back also later in the year. Peyton Logan will also eventually be healthy although not sure how we get him on the roster the way Vaval is playing. We could also get Pokey Wilson back before the playoffs.
So although that offensive performance last night was awful (and against a team giving up an average of over 29 points a game), things could get better.
Have come to realize Zach has not kept up with his fellow old timers BLM and Harris, both are currently playing as well as they did in their prime. Thought maybe he would be reinvigorated this year but so far he hasn't shown it.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 03, 2025, 12:24:48 AMHave come to realize Zach has not kept with his fellow old timers BLM and Harris, both are currently playing as well as they did in their prime. Thought maybe he would be reinvigorated this year but so far he hasn't showed it.
Both have also had incredibly useless years in between their primes and now.
Quote from: Jesse on August 03, 2025, 12:36:00 AMBoth have also had incredibly useless years in between their primes and now.
Incredibly useless or playing on bad teams?
Quote from: bunker on August 02, 2025, 07:53:31 PMI've certainly had those thoughts myself. But it's also worth noting we are missing Collaros, Bryant, Vanterpool, and Schoen. Three of those are high impact players. Collaros and Bryant will be back. Vanterpool also, and ratio permitting I think he's an upgrade on Wallace. I'm hoping Schoen might be back also later in the year. Peyton Logan will also eventually be healthy although not sure how we get him on the roster the way Vaval is playing. We could also get Pokey Wilson back before the playoffs.
So although that offensive performance last night was awful (and against a team giving up an average of over 29 points a game), things could get better.
Peyton Logan lost his job, pretty tough to take out tre vaval when he scored 2 tds in one game!! That's grant like status!!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 02, 2025, 04:31:30 PMWho cares about the loser's strategy? The Bombers 2 biggest rivals for the GC, the Als and the Argos
Uh, I think this year, of all years, we have to worry about the "losers" CGY and SSK much more than we do TOR/MTL! We're going to be hard pressed to win the W and/or get out of the W into the GC.
As for TOR/MTL, I would say Strev gives as good a chance to win as MBT, all things being equal. Same with Arbuckle, actually. He hasn't won squat in TOR except vs us. Just because he won a GC doesn't make him good.
Ya, sure, those other guys "can throw", and can "read defenses", better than Strev. And yet they still can't win much more than Strev! Weird, huh?
If Strev has the best complete team like MTL did in '23, and TOR did in '24, then Strev probably can win us a cup too. Not something I want to witness, but these guys are all .500 QBs
as backups.
Don't get me wrong, I still think that if faced with the scenario we'll trade for a "real" QB, we did it before, we can do it again. But it's not like 99% of the other teams aren't in the same boat we are in terms of backups. The only backup I like as a "future starter" is HAM & Powell.
Quote from: Pigskin on August 02, 2025, 12:31:02 PMour run game isn't firing on all cylinders right now.
It's a function of bad / inexperienced OL, and weak RECs making for a non-balanced non-complimentary overall attack.
Makes me wonder, though, if Brady isn't just "average", and has always looked beast simply because he had a superb OL and a very balanced O attack so opponents couldn't just play the run.
Brady's stats are very weak this season. Soooo many 0-3 yard runs. Last night I think he busted
one out 9+, right? On a loooot of attempts.
We still need vastly improved OL production (and all starters healthy), and we have to make them pay on run blitzes so we decongest the box. Otherwise Brady will be lucky to finish 6th in the league.
Quote from: dd on August 03, 2025, 02:51:18 AMPeyton Logan lost his job, pretty tough to take out tre vaval when he scored 2 tds in one game!! That's grant like status!!
Nah, just keep him on the 6G, keeping him "hurt" all season, until/if Vaval gets hurt (KRs eventually do). Everyone is happy: Logan gets his full pay check, and we get full SMS relief to spend elsewhere.
And we have a superb backup who can step in when needed, maybe even the post-season.
Far from being a bad situation, it's actually the ideal situation!
Quote from: markf on August 02, 2025, 07:37:30 PMOur game plan on O ... whatever it is, (and it doesn't look like much) has been figured out by all of the other teams. I hope there is a bit of a shakeup there. Last season, in difficult circumstances, the Elks had the league leading Offence under Jarious.
Except they were still losing pretty bigly... And teams always in garbage-time (like HAM last year) always get big stats boosts.
I'm not sure Jarious is the savior here.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 03, 2025, 05:04:59 AMNah, just keep him on the 6G, keeping him "hurt" all season, until/if Vaval gets hurt (KRs eventually do). Everyone is happy: Logan gets his full pay check, and we get full SMS relief to spend elsewhere.
And we have a superb backup who can step in when needed, maybe even the post-season.
Far from being a bad situation, it's actually the ideal situation!
Logan isn't on the 6 game IR and I've been asking why all season. We know he can't practice for the 1st 4 games on 6 game IR. However how did they not understand the extent of his injury in TC?
So whatever his SMS hit is, it is counting against the total. I don't imagine it's a big number but that's not the point. If he was healthy and they were just hiding him like they've done with some other that would more acceptable IMO. Will he even be able to practice this week?
Quote from: Jesse on August 03, 2025, 12:36:00 AMBoth have also had incredibly useless years in between their primes and now.
Marred with injury, just like Zach. Although in Zach's case, I don't think I see a rewind past this year. Best we can hope for is a swan song end of the season stretch.
Doesnt matter who u have at QB, if u dont fix the O Line, ur not going anywhere
and 5 grey cup visits, only 2 wins....not a good record to brag about
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 03, 2025, 01:37:45 PMLogan isn't on the 6 game IR and I've been asking why all season. We know he can't practice for the 1st 4 games on 6 game IR. However how did they not understand the extent of his injury in TC?
So whatever his SMS hit is, it is counting against the total. I don't imagine it's a big number but that's not the point. If he was healthy and they were just hiding him like they've done with some other that would more acceptable IMO. Will he even be able to practice this week?
They say "thigh" and is most likely a pulled quad. Pretty hard to diagnose how long that is going to take, similar to a hamstring. They probably thought less than 6 weeks initially. I think he probably tested it too hard, too early and had a set back similar to Davis Alexander but not bad enough to be another 6 weeks. That's my theory anyway.
July 13: "RB/KR Peyton Logan also did not practice — although Logan was doing some sprint work on the sideline during the session."
July 14: Mike O'Shea: Peyton Logan 'probably close' to practicing with Winnipeg Blue Bombers
So I am thinking a set back since then.
Quote from: Waffler on August 03, 2025, 02:04:23 PMThey say "thigh" and is most likely a pulled quad. Pretty hard to diagnose how long that is going to take, similar to a hamstring. They probably thought less than 6 weeks initially. I think he probably tested it too hard, too early and had a set back similar to Davis Alexander but not bad enough to be another 6 weeks. That's my theory anyway.
Yeah, but if a player can't even practice then it's more practical to put him on 6 game IR. A few players were added to 6 game IR early like Woods after week 1. Logan still can't practice as far as I know.
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 03, 2025, 01:37:45 PMLogan isn't on the 6 game IR and I've been asking why all season.
Ugh... I forgot. Well get him on the 6G stat! He suffered a setback in day 1, boom 6G.
I guess we did give him a decent signing bonus, eh? So the 6G savings won't be huge.
But unless they are prepared to move him to the PR I think you have to 6G him. Every team plays that game, except us. Ugh, playing things straight all the time really hampers our competitiveness. Everything is so close this season, you need an every edge.
Quote from: Go_Big_D on August 03, 2025, 01:50:42 PMDoesnt matter who u have at QB, if u dont fix the O Line, ur not going anywhere
Nothing demonstrates that better than Mahomes, the best most mobile QB in forever, sucking badly in the last couple of playoff/SB losses because of nonstop pressure & sacks.