Has any of our intrepid reporters interviewed any of the coaches and asked who makes the personnel decisions for the game day roster and in game?
I know the buck stops at OShea but is Younger the one continually putting guys like Thomas in? Did Hogan want Case in before Mitchell?
We have repeated called out OShea for sticking with vets vs playing and developing young talent but is it all on him?
Quote from: Pete on July 20, 2025, 11:28:40 PMHas any of our intrepid reporters interviewed any of the coaches and asked who makes the personnel decisions for the game day roster and in game?
I know the buck stops at OShea but is Younger the one continually putting guys like Thomas in? Did Hogan want Case in before Mitchell?
We have repeated called out OShea for sticking with vets vs playing and developing young talent but is it all on him?
Case is slot thats why he played and coaches said that
Thomas rotates and will continue
We roster the best mix possible based on input from the a lot of the organization I'm sure
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 20, 2025, 11:34:26 PMCase is slot thats why he played and coaches said that
Thomas rotates and will continue
We roster the best mix possible based on input from the a lot of the organization I'm sure
not my question regardless of how good/bad the decision is who makes it at the time and does the question get asked
Quote from: Pete on July 21, 2025, 12:09:53 AMnot my question regardless of how good/bad the decision is who makes it at the time and does the question get asked
even if the question is asked they will just get low level snark back from MOS. So they don't ask.
Quote from: The Zipp on July 21, 2025, 12:28:40 AMeven if the question is asked they will just get low level snark back from MOS. So they don't ask.
That's your opinion and you are stating it like it's a fact. I don't agree about your take here in anyway.
We have no idea how it operates within closed doors in the Bomber organization. I believe it's a team based discussion between management, coaches and veteran leaders. Our culture is great here. I don't believe what you are suggesting is close to how it is.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 21, 2025, 12:32:08 AMThat's your opinion and you are stating it like it's a fact. I don't agree about your take here in anyway.
We have no idea how it operates within closed doors in the Bomber organization. I believe it's a team based discussion between management, coaches and veteran leaders. Our culture is great here. I don't believe what you are suggesting is close to how it is.
after 10 years youd think wed have some clarity
Quote from: Pete on July 21, 2025, 01:09:03 AMafter 10 years youd think wed have some clarity
Pretty clear how they operate works just fine based on past success
sorry Blue but even coaches get complacent or lose intensity after a period of time, which leads to questions that are being continuously asked ie what are we doing with Thomas getting the majority of the snaps? Why are we not playing younger players that we draft high. (not even getting a snap other than special teams) To question what the coaching dynamics are isnt unreasonable.
Quote from: Pete on July 21, 2025, 12:09:53 AMnot my question regardless of how good/bad the decision is who makes it at the time and does the question get asked
I'm sure it's collaborative (HC + coords). However, we all know MOS's style is to hire capable people and then leave them to manage their little fiefdom. So that would mean MOS will likely defer to the coord's desired starter choice.
However, MOS sets the overall tone in terms of rewarding loyalty and effort. It's very "MOS-like" for Case to get a start, as a "he's earned it" kinda thing. The coords know this and will adjust their choices to match that style.
It's a weird question, because it ignores ratio/salary cap/injuries.
All 3 coordinators will have their preferred staters and a desire for depth/rotational players and they have to balance that with the ratio. I'm sure multiple line-ups are debated each week and MOS is obviously responsible for the final say.
If you're making the claim that some vets shouldn't be started, who are you asking them to be replaced with?
Its pretty clear that OShea has his preferences when it comes to certain players
I have mentioned Thomas and Case,but in the past Johnson Jackson even Smeckle and Kornelson I get that OShea probably has the most say on the roster make up.
But ingame use ie why does Shay and Smith get virtually no regular reps? Why is Thomas in the top two of defensive reps while having 2 tackles all year.
To say its a collaborative effort between a boss and coaches reporting to him,,guess which way they are going to go
Its disappointing that guys like Hamilton and even Hodge dont report on this more
Quote from: Pete on July 21, 2025, 02:22:31 PMIts pretty clear that OShea has his preferences when it comes to certain players
I have mentioned Thomas and Case,but in the past Johnson Jackson even Smeckle and Kornelson I get that OShea probably has the most say on the roster make up.
But ingame use ie why does Shay and Smith get virtually no regular reps? Why is Thomas in the top two of defensive reps while having 2 tackles all year.
To say its a collaborative effort between a boss and coaches reporting to him,,guess which way they are going to go
Its disappointing that guys like Hamilton and even Hodge dont report on this more
Thomas get reps as he is playing as well or better than Lawson. Thomas is good against the run. Case was the best option at slot. We are so deep at LB so the new guys get less reps.
Quote from: Jesse on July 21, 2025, 12:24:42 PMIt's a weird question, because it ignores ratio/salary cap/injuries.
All 3 coordinators will have their preferred staters and a desire for depth/rotational players and they have to balance that with the ratio. I'm sure multiple line-ups are debated each week and MOS is obviously responsible for the final say.
If you're making the claim that some vets shouldn't be started, who are you asking them to be replaced with?
Agree all, easy to complain about the process without making a suggestion of who would be a better option.
Thomas is not playing better than Lawson, a quick look at the stats shows Lawson has 7 defensive tackles and Thomas, a whopping 2, 2 tackles for all the reps he gets. Ridiculous. Therein lies the problem on the defensive line, zero production from the interior
Quote from: Pete on July 21, 2025, 02:22:31 PMIts pretty clear that OShea has his preferences when it comes to certain players
This isn't a very convincing claim. Unless you're privy to information or access typically not meant for outsiders/fans.
Besides, what's the alternative here? It's not like changing the reps of two players would've influenced the outcome of Friday's game in any significant way.
Quote from: DM83 on July 21, 2025, 06:19:39 PMDoesn't matter. This won't make any difference. Poor coaching , recruiting, players ( DBs ) poor fundamentals, too many guys who don't rally to the ball.
Def cordinatorm thinks Man to man is the best philosophy when it is nit. He does not have the personnel. A soft man, where DNs give five yard cushions.....?.... Bend but don't break!
Oh really!
Zero pass rush. Front five are pretty much going through the motions
Most other teams came out flat, but have actually practiced, it seems Bombers well, you mostly can see the complacency.. let's see how the Argos cream the Bombers by 14.
Bombers don't have a QB this week. Can we even score?
The tone of your posts are similar to how they were before we won 2 cups and went to the big show 5 times. Things worked out well then and should again. The only difference is we are not a dominate team at the moment but still middle of the pack.
We have good to great coaches. Our recuiting has been great over the years, average this year. Expected with the changes we made in the organization. Our DBs are good to very good with Bridges learning his craft. Our defensive strategy is solid and based on years of having a top defense. Yes we need more pressure from the DL. You are over generalizing our defensive style. We are not bend and don't break. Hall moved away from that years ago. Younger is much more dynamic and blitzes more. I like the balance he brings and the number of different looks he creates make a difference.
Yes we will score. 20 to 25 with Strev and 30ish with Zach.
Wow... we have lost one game and some of us are flipping out. The sky is not falling. It is a long season and it really is only about one third played. We've gone to the Cup the last few seasons. Other teams wish ( I think) to be in our shoes. Give the coaching staff half a chance. :(
Quote from: bluebeard on July 21, 2025, 07:19:14 PMWow... we have lost one game and some of us are flipping out. The sky is not falling. It is a long season and it really is only about one third played. We've gone to the Cup the last few seasons. Other teams wish ( I think) to be in our shoes. Give the coaching staff half a chance. :(
Yeah this is how the forum works, the panic comes on quickly. Agree all.
Quote from: bluebeard on July 21, 2025, 07:19:14 PMWow... we have lost one game 2 blow out games in a row to the same team, and some of us are flipping out. The sky is not falling. It is a long season and it really is only about one third played. We've gone to the Cup the last few seasons. Other teams wish ( I think) to be in our shoes. Give the coaching staff half a chance. :(
FIFY
The sky definitely isn't falling, but there should be ample cause for concern after ugly back-to-back losses to the same division rival, and one loss in which the Bombers were coming off a bye - and at home.
I think we all expected a better performance on Friday night. The fact that they looked unprepared and played a mostly forgettable, uninspired, and undisciplined game despite a week off is troubling, IMO.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 21, 2025, 04:07:16 PMThis isn't a very convincing claim. Unless you're privy to information or access typically not meant for outsiders/fans.
Besides, what's the alternative here? It's not like changing the reps of two players would've influenced the outcome of Friday's game in any significant way.
of course its clear to anyone that watches OShea has a preference that he places a higher value on certain types of players, especially those who have payed their dues
He just happens to be very stubborn in not adjusting when it doesn't work out
The issues Ive mentioned aren't a result of 2 games, its been ongoing, and every year our core gets older and less impactful.Since we won the last cup can you possibly say that this team has improved from one year to the next in any year
Its more of a case of weaker western opponents and when we get to the cup we cant bridge that gap. its what happens when you strive to maintain rather than improve
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 21, 2025, 08:32:00 PMThe sky definitely isn't falling, but there should be ample cause for concern after ugly back-to-back losses to the same division rival, and one loss in which the Bombers were coming off a bye - and at home.
I think we all expected a better performance on Friday night. The fact that they looked unprepared and played a mostly forgettable, uninspired, and undisciplined game despite a week off is troubling, IMO.
yes it is
either the coaching wasn't there or the players tuned it out...neither is a great option. we need a well played game in all phases to make me not worried.
Quote from: Pete on July 21, 2025, 08:52:17 PM of course its clear to anyone that watches OShea has a preference that he places a higher value on certain types of players, especially those who have payed their dues
This. It's not that we know what MOS thinks of player A or B. It's that those who closely follow WFC know the philosophy and tendencies and values of MOS. It's not like he hides these things. And his actions match his words.
Quote from: TBURGESS on July 21, 2025, 08:16:15 PMFIFY
2 bad losses in a row to a
divisional opponent and likely WDF contender.
FIMFY
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 22, 2025, 02:56:43 AMThis. It's not that we know what MOS thinks of player A or B. It's that those who closely follow WFC know the philosophy and tendencies and values of MOS. It's not like he hides these things. And his actions match his words.
I agree with MOS s philosophy, it's how he played - work hard, play for your teammates, plAy hard nosed football. He doesn't cave to primadonas in fact they are likely shown the door. This way you weed out those who aren't bought in as when the going gets tough those are the guys who will battle til the end.
Quote from: dd on July 22, 2025, 03:06:07 AMI agree with MOS s philosophy, it's how he played - work hard, play for your teammates, plAy hard nosed football. He doesn't cave to primadonas in fact they are likely shown the door. This way you weed out those who aren't bought in as when the going gets tough those are the guys who will battle til the end.
I agree with it too. And he's principled enough that he will stick to his guns, basically no matter what. It's taken him this far, taken our team from zero a decade ago to perennial hero, and gotten us to 5 straight cups.
Anyone who doesn't understand, or doesn't like MOS's philosophy is going to be sorely disappointed until the day he is fired. Because it ain't going away.
Quote from: dd on July 21, 2025, 04:03:47 PMThomas is not playing better than Lawson, a quick look at the stats shows Lawson has 7 defensive tackles and Thomas, a whopping 2, 2 tackles for all the reps he gets. Ridiculous. Therein lies the problem on the defensive line, zero production from the interior
Production?
DT's aren't stats whores, their job is to stuff the middle. If a RB runs within their arms reach, they grab them. Much like a top DB that has no throws sent his way so they get no tackles/picks/knockdowns in a game, likewise if they run away from Thomas, how can he get stats?
Thomas gets reps because he does his job well.
We have a winning record. In a playoff position with a game or two in hand against those behind us.
Last year we were 1-4 at this point. Went on to 2-6. Finished 11-7 at the top of the division.
So, yeah, the sky is falling....
Quote from: theaardvark on July 23, 2025, 04:30:58 PMProduction?
DT's aren't stats whores, their job is to stuff the middle. If a RB runs within their arms reach, they grab them. Much like a top DB that has no throws sent his way so they get no tackles/picks/knockdowns in a game, likewise if they run away from Thomas, how can he get stats?
Thomas gets reps because he does his job well.
There's absolutely something to be said for the argument that DL play is not solely about stats. That pressures and filling gaps doesn't always result in countable stats.
That said, it doesn't absolve them from never contributing. If they are always doing the little things right, eventually they are the guy who comes free and records the tackle/sack/FF.
That has not been happening and they deserve some criticism.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 23, 2025, 04:30:58 PMProduction?
DT's aren't stats whores, their job is to stuff the middle. If a RB runs within their arms reach, they grab them. Much like a top DB that has no throws sent his way so they get no tackles/picks/knockdowns in a game, likewise if they run away from Thomas, how can he get stats?
Thomas gets reps because he does his job well.
Where were they filling gaps vs Calgary. Mills and their backup RB ran up the gut and gashed us for huge yards.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 23, 2025, 04:34:48 PMWe have a winning record. In a playoff position with a game or two in hand against those behind us.
Last year we were 1-4 at this point. Went on to 2-6. Finished 11-7 at the top of the division.
So, yeah, the sky is falling....
It's just how this place operates, any sign of weakness and some folks panic, when we are successful they tend to look really hard for things to complain about. Goes in cycles. When we have a few big wins we get too high. Just how she goes.
Agree all.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 23, 2025, 06:15:12 PMIt's just how this place operates, any sign of weakness and some folks panic, when we are successful they tend to look really hard for things to complain about. Goes in cycles. When we have a few big wins we get too high. Just how she goes.
Agree all.
IMO you're grossly underestimating how badly we got beat by Calgary, twice.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 23, 2025, 04:30:58 PMProduction?
DT's aren't stats whores, their job is to stuff the middle. If a RB runs within their arms reach, they grab them. Much like a top DB that has no throws sent his way so they get no tackles/picks/knockdowns in a game, likewise if they run away from Thomas, how can he get stats?
Thomas gets reps because he does his job well.
Thomas gets reps because he's one of MOS's boys. not because he's productive. Watch him be out of the play or easily blocked most plays next game. Cut him and no CFL team picks him up.
Quote from: TBURGESS on July 23, 2025, 06:28:24 PMIMO you're grossly underestimating how badly we got beat by Calgary, twice.
Strevellers pick at the goal line and then his brutal pick six were 14 point swings in the game. Then there's the goal line stand where no one lined up on the WR for an easy TD. There was some bad plays, and then there were some really really bad plays. I for one don't trivialize that like some others. Calgary was pressing and looking for the pick and got 2. Everyone in the stadium could see they were in press. Why on earth are we throwing into that?!?! Some of its on the players, and some of it is on the coaches for calling plays at the wrong time/situation. I am hoping Strev learned from his blunders...did Hogan??
Quote from: RebusRankin on July 23, 2025, 06:32:28 PMThomas gets reps because he's one of MOS's boys. not because he's productive. Watch him be out of the play or easily blocked most plays next game. Cut him and no CFL team picks him up.
This is some take.
You seem pretty convinced Jake Thomas is so terrible and is only employed in the CFL because of O'Shea's favouritism, so this begs the question: who replaces him on the D-line, either in terms of NAT status or productivity?
Who else is on your list of "MOS's boys," BTW?
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 23, 2025, 06:53:47 PMThis is some take.
You seem pretty convinced Jake Thomas is so terrible and is only employed in the CFL because of O'Shea's favouritism, so this begs the question: who replaces him on the D-line, either in terms of NAT status or productivity?
Who else is on your list of "MOS's boys," BTW?
Lawson is younger, more productive and gets more of a push and creates more pressure.
Tell you what, find me actual examples of Thomas having an impact and get back to me or tell me which CFL picks him up if we cut him.
Quote from: RebusRankin on July 23, 2025, 07:27:50 PMLawson is younger, more productive and gets more of a push and creates more pressure.
Lawson rotates in a similar way to Thomas. If the former were capable of handling more reps, it would stand to reason he'd get them.
Quote from: RebusRankin on July 23, 2025, 07:27:50 PMTell you what, find me actual examples of Thomas having an impact and get back to me or tell me which CFL picks him up if we cut him.
Nah. This is just you posting in bad faith.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 23, 2025, 08:04:17 PMLawson rotates in a similar way to Thomas. If the former were capable of handling more reps, it would stand to reason he'd get them.
Nah. This is just you posting in bad faith.
Bad faith, keep telling yourself that.
Quote from: TBURGESS on July 23, 2025, 06:28:24 PMIMO you're grossly underestimating how badly we got beat by Calgary, twice.
In Calgary, yes. Badly beaten.
At home, we could have won.
It was 17-13 at the half after losing our starting QB to a very questionable hit. Should have been an ejection, and will no doubt be a fine, and maybe suspension.
But again, 3-2 is better than 1-4. The Toronto game will tell us a lot about where we are.
Quote from: RebusRankin on July 23, 2025, 08:10:30 PMBad faith, keep telling yourself that.
(https://media.tenor.com/I2lqdKWskpgAAAAM/baseball-fail.gif)
Quote from: theaardvark on July 23, 2025, 08:23:58 PMIn Calgary, yes. Badly beaten.
At home, we could have won.
It was 17-13 at the half after losing our starting QB to a very questionable hit. Should have been an ejection, and will no doubt be a fine, and maybe suspension.
Highly doubt it, they didn't call a penalty and it wasn't a dirty hit, Zach just landed wrong.
Quote from: TBURGESS on July 23, 2025, 06:28:24 PMIMO you're grossly underestimating how badly we got beat by Calgary, twice.
Nope not underestimating that at all. We were beaten badly and laid two eggs, been saying that all week.
Not just speaking to recently but entire past of this place. Patterns of behavior are predictable. For example, my blue coloured glasses are welded on until one or many of the following change; regime, qb, rb, etc. Been that way a few years pre mini dynasty. I'll need someone with an industrial grinder when we rebuild lol. The HD glasses were handy 7 or 8 years ago when I needed the deflector shields lol. There are others in my army with similar defences lol.
We at the bottom of a trough, surfs up, time to shred the Argos.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 23, 2025, 08:04:17 PMLawson rotates in a similar way to Thomas. If the former were capable of handling more reps, it would stand to reason he'd get them.
Nah. This is just you posting in bad faith.
I'm with BG84
Thomas => Lawson
Lawson once seasoned and less rusty > Thomas
Quote from: RebusRankin on July 23, 2025, 06:32:28 PMThomas gets reps because he's one of MOS's boys. not because he's productive. Watch him be out of the play or easily blocked most plays next game. Cut him and no CFL team picks him up.
Thomas gets reps because he a solid Canadian depth player with size, good againsts the run, is never injuried, consistent and knows his assignments. End is near, end is not now. Lawson is a excellent replacement, but will have a hard time meeting Thomas's legevity.
A quarter of the league if cut wouldn't get picked up. That part of the argument holds no weight imo.
Fatboi is a valued and important member of this club. What a decade of dedication proves that. We let him go and brought him back. As good a cdn depth / backup/ rotatation guy as there is (in his prime).
Thomas also critcal as backup OL.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 23, 2025, 08:44:49 PMHighly doubt it, they didn't call a penalty and it wasn't a dirty hit, Zach just landed wrong.
Whups... Keep mixing things up... just getting old. Was thinking of Dru...
Make all the excesses you want, but the Stamps beat us by 21 points in both games and that includes a TD after beat down, or it would have been 28 points. "If we hadn't thrown all the picks", that we obviously threw, we might have won is the only 'argument' you have, and it's weak sauce.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 23, 2025, 09:02:53 PMNope not underestimating that at all. We were beaten badly and laid two eggs, been saying that all week.
Not just speaking to recently but entire past of this place. Patterns of behavior are predictable. For example, my blue coloured glasses are welded on until one or many of the following change; regime, qb, rb, etc. Been that way a few years pre mini dynasty. I'll need someone with an industrial grinder when we rebuild lol. The HD glasses were handy 7 or 8 years ago when I needed the deflector shields lol. There are others in my army with similar defences lol.
We at the bottom of a trough, surfs up, time to shred the Argos.
I'm with BG84
Thomas => Lawson
Lawson once seasoned and less rusty > Thomas
Thomas gets reps because he a solid Canadian depth player with size, good againsts the run, is never injuried, consistent and knows his assignments. End is near, end is not now. Lawson is a excellent replacement, but will have a hard time meeting Thomas's legevity.
A quarter of the league if cut wouldn't get picked up. That part of the argument holds no weight imo.
Fatboi is a valued and important member of this club. What a decade of dedication proves that. We let him go and brought him back. As good a cdn depth / backup/ rotatation guy as there is (in his prime).
Thomas also critcal as backup OL.
Kornelson has more tackles than Thomas let alone Lawson. I like Thomas and he's been a terrific asset for us over the yeasr but hes no longer a solid option. This isn't on him it's on the team that hasn't recruited a better option. (kornelson isnt any better we can get away with Kornelson or Thomas as backup but not both) If you watch the teams with good front lines more and more qb pressure is coming from the inside rush. Against Calgary they dominated our line.
Strong DE.s are getting harder and harder to find. Interior lineman can no longer be just gap fillers but have to provide qb pressures for us to be successful.
(Hutchings, Kendricks, Hendrix are in the top 7 leaders in sacks) (adams is our only interior lineman with even one sack). And if you talk pressures, they dont provide that either.
Quote from: Pete on July 24, 2025, 12:04:59 AMKornelson has more tackles than Thomas let alone Lawson. I like Thomas and he's been a terrific asset for us over the yeasr but hes no longer a solid option. This isn't on him it's on the team that hasn't recruited a better option. (kornelson isnt any better we can get away with Kornelson or Thomas as backup but not both) If you watch the teams with good front lines more and more qb pressure is coming from the inside rush. Against Calgary they dominated our line.
Strong DE.s are getting harder and harder to find. Interior lineman can no longer be just gap fillers but have to provide qb pressures for us to be successful.
(Hutchings, Kendricks, Hendrix are in the top 7 leaders in sacks) (adams is our only interior lineman with even one sack). And if you talk pressures, they dont provide that either.
I think Thomas will continue to be good asset this year and is good insurance if Lawson doesn't take the next step. Neither will get that many stats. Most of what they do will go unnoticed, which is a win at there level.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 24, 2025, 12:29:15 AMI think Thomas will continue to be good asset this year and is good insurance if Lawson doesn't take the next step. Neither will get that many stats. Most of what they do will go unnoticed, which is a win at there level.
I am more concerned with our DE's than Thomas.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 24, 2025, 12:29:15 AMI think Thomas will continue to be good asset this year and is good insurance if Lawson doesn't take the next step. Neither will get that many stats. Most of what they do will go unnoticed, which is a win at there level.
Continue?
Jake Thomas - 5 games played. 2 DTs.
He's easy to pick on (and people shouldn't) -- I think we owed it to him to keep with him until he can't. But it's also fair to say we might have reached 'can't.' 2024 was a major regression from 2023 and it appears it's continued. I don't blame the Bombers for wanting to keep as many pieces of that core. But at some point...
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 24, 2025, 12:29:15 AMI think Thomas will continue to be good asset this year and is good insurance if Lawson doesn't take the next step. Neither will get that many stats. Most of what they do will go unnoticed, which is a win at there level.
It's not though.
Quote from: BBFANDM on July 24, 2025, 05:42:27 AMI am more concerned with our DE's than Thomas.
The unit as a whole has been disappointing so far. I think the interior is where the weakness is really showing, though.
Need more beef in the middle, IMO. The current group isn't cutting it.
Quote from: Pete on July 24, 2025, 12:04:59 AMKornelson has more tackles than Thomas let alone Lawson. I like Thomas and he's been a terrific asset for us over the yeasr but hes no longer a solid option. This isn't on him it's on the team that hasn't recruited a better option. (kornelson isnt any better we can get away with Kornelson or Thomas as backup but not both) If you watch the teams with good front lines more and more qb pressure is coming from the inside rush. Against Calgary they dominated our line.
Strong DE.s are getting harder and harder to find. Interior lineman can no longer be just gap fillers but have to provide qb pressures for us to be successful.
(Hutchings, Kendricks, Hendrix are in the top 7 leaders in sacks) (adams is our only interior lineman with even one sack). And if you talk pressures, they dont provide that either.
This approach indicates members of the fanbase know more about personnel evaluation than the team's coaching staff, which is a delusional concept to begin with. Are you prepared to debate Jordan Younger on the merits of Jake Thomas? What facts can you actually bring to the discussion, other then random observations made from the 27th row?
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 24, 2025, 05:34:45 PMThis approach indicates members of the fanbase know more about personnel evaluation than the team's coaching staff, which is a delusional concept to begin with. Are you prepared to debate Jordan Younger on the merits of Jake Thomas? What facts can you actually bring to the discussion, other then random observations made from the 27th row?
I don't know. How about the fact that we let the Stamps rush for 130 yards in 20 carries for a 6 yard average. We also let them complete 2nd and long nearly every time. The Stamps controlled the LOS. We gave up 400 yards on defence. Those are significant facts.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 24, 2025, 05:34:45 PMThis approach indicates members of the fanbase know more about personnel evaluation than the team's coaching staff, which is a delusional concept to begin with. Are you prepared to debate Jordan Younger on the merits of Jake Thomas? What facts can you actually bring to the discussion, other then random observations made from the 27th row?
thats the whole purpose of this forum so that we couch coaches and gms can vent. If I went to younger and said it would have been smarter to go after Greene to replace Ford than add another lb in the off season would he agree who knows. All I can go by is my experience as 30 year+ fan of the game. And yes I would debate him in terms of adding another option at tackle is a good idea.
I don't think he has a lot of choice in playing Thomas cause the alternatives aren't much better, also likely why we resort to three man fronts too much
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 24, 2025, 05:34:45 PMThis approach indicates members of the fanbase know more about personnel evaluation than the team's coaching staff, which is a delusional concept to begin with. Are you prepared to debate Jordan Younger on the merits of Jake Thomas? What facts can you actually bring to the discussion, other then random observations made from the 27th row?
A bit harsh IMO. Its a fan forum, fan's are going to question coaching decisions, especially after 2 bad losses.
Its true the bomber's coaches know more about creating an effective defense than the fans. They also are in a better position to evaluate players. However its not like coaches are never wrong (Sam Hurl, Kuale, Damian Jackson are just a few of the names that spring to mind...BC let Kenny Lawler go etc...) They're human and make mistakes. They can get tunnel vision. They can double down on decisions they make, not wanting to admit a mistake. They also get attached to certain players due to habit, sentimental/emotional attachment.
When we did not sign Jake that one offseason he sat at home. No one else signed him, until we eventually signed him again at a salary we were comfortable with. That suggests to me that he's not very talented, since any talented canadian player would have sparked interest in other teams. I also watch him, and see that he has no real pass rushing move other than a "bull rush". Maybe he's instructed to only make that move, maybe he's too slow to do anything else, I don't know. But its usually not very effective. It usually takes him too long to collapse the pocket, and even if he gets through, he's easily evaded by quicker QBs. He's smallish for a DT and often seems to get washed out in run plays. He does make the occasional play, and never quits. He's probably great in the room. But something wasn't working in our D-line against Calgary, and if you're going to point fingers, he's the low hanging fruit.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 24, 2025, 05:34:45 PMThis approach indicates members of the fanbase know more about personnel evaluation than the team's coaching staff, which is a delusional concept to begin with. Are you prepared to debate Jordan Younger on the merits of Jake Thomas? What facts can you actually bring to the discussion, other then random observations made from the 27th row?
You're saying coaches are infallible and don't make mistakes and can never lose?
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 24, 2025, 05:47:33 PMI don't know. How about the fact that we let the Stamps rush for 130 yards in 20 carries for a 6 yard average. We also let them complete 2nd and long nearly every time. The Stamps controlled the LOS. We gave up 400 yards on defence. Those are significant facts.
The defense as a whole is a responsible for that, not just a single player on the D-line.
The same way the offense as a whole is responsible for their part in the loss on Friday. Singling out players isn't productive and undermines the complexity of a team sport such as football.
Quote from: Jesse on July 24, 2025, 05:57:24 PMYou're saying coaches are infallible and don't make mistakes and can never lose?
I won't speak on behalf of TLB, but I don't think that's the implication.
My interpretation of what he posted is that coaches generally know better than fans - for pretty obvious reasons.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 24, 2025, 06:17:11 PMI won't speak on behalf of TLB, but I don't think that's the implication.
My interpretation of what he posted is that coaches generally know better than fans - for pretty obvious reasons.
I obviously went too far, but we see this argument all the time. We criticize certain decisions and some posters attack saying, "coaches know better". Obviously different coaches make different decisions and some are simply mistakes.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 24, 2025, 06:17:11 PMThe defense as a whole is a responsible for that, not just a single player on the D-line.
The same way the offense as a whole is responsible for their part in the loss on Friday. Singling out players isn't productive and undermines the complexity of a team sport such as football.
I won't speak on behalf of TLB, but I don't think that's the implication.
My interpretation of what he posted is that coaches generally know better than fans - for pretty obvious reasons.
The interior of the DL is responsible for giving up 130 yards rushing. Thomas is responsible for RB's running by him and getting washed out by the OL. He's responsible for only having 2 DT's in 5 games.
Yes the rest of the DL has not played well but there is no pressure from the inside players. Those are the ones that should be making DT's when RB's are running up the gut. If they aren't getting to the QB, which they aren't then we shouldn't be seeing the LB's making the tackles 5 - 8 yards downfield as a result.
Defending the play of Thomas is questionable at best. He's a non factor.
The back breaker plays for me was the Strev pick six and then the defense lining up leaving the WR open at the 5 yd line. Why didn't Holm run offside and kill the play?? He knew he was outmanned before the ball was even snapped, yet we went ahead with the play. That tells me players and coaches aren't focussed and in the game. Teams in High School pull that stunt when there's a blown alignment before the snap, especially at the goal line!!
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 24, 2025, 06:35:15 PMThe interior of the DL is responsible for giving up 130 yards rushing. Thomas is responsible for RB's running by him and getting washed out by the OL. He's responsible for only having 2 DT's in 5 games.
Yes the rest of the DL has not played well but there is no pressure from the inside players. Those are the ones that should be making DT's when RB's are running up the gut. If they aren't getting to the QB, which they aren't then we shouldn't be seeing the LB's making the tackles 5 - 8 yards downfield as a result.
Defending the play of Thomas is questionable at best. He's a non factor.
He's a total non factor, but a fan sentimental favourite--why I'll never know. You can either make plays and contribute, or not, and he is sadly in the 'or not' category. He's done well to make a career of the limited skill set he has, but it was time last season to hang em up, this season is embarassing.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 24, 2025, 06:35:15 PMThe interior of the DL is responsible for giving up 130 yards rushing. Thomas is responsible for RB's running by him and getting washed out by the OL. He's responsible for only having 2 DT's in 5 games.
Yes the rest of the DL has not played well but there is no pressure from the inside players. Those are the ones that should be making DT's when RB's are running up the gut. If they aren't getting to the QB, which they aren't then we shouldn't be seeing the LB's making the tackles 5 - 8 yards downfield as a result.
Defending the play of Thomas is questionable at best. He's a non factor.
Who's defending him or his play?
Quote from: dd on July 24, 2025, 06:40:33 PMThe back breaker plays for me was the Strev pick six and then the defense lining up leaving the WR open at the 5 yd line. Why didn't Holm run offside and kill the play?? He knew he was outmanned before the ball was even snapped, yet we went ahead with the play. That tells me players and coaches aren't focussed and in the game. Teams in High School pull that stunt when there's a blown alignment before the snap, especially at the goal line!!
Last person you should blame is Holm, he takes an offside penalty and they move the ball to the one yd. line, that ensures a TD.
Lol - let's accuse the best defender we have on the team by a good amount of 'not being focused'. Umm, no. If we had 3 more Evan Holms we'd be undefeated.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 24, 2025, 07:08:30 PMWho's defending him or his play?
I'd gladly defend Jake Thomas on his play every game, I think he completes his assignments 90% of plays, he drives O-linemen back into the pocket as consistently as any other DT on the team. If this was no longer the case I believe the coaching staff would not hesitate to replace him in the lineup as they have a number of available options.
DT is a thankless job, they have to fight humans 50-100 lbs. heavier than they are, who often double up in their effort to defend the QB. Old school DT's job is not to slip past these behemoths to chase the QB, but to physically tangle them up so they can't create holes in the defence. Making tackles are rather difficult when a 300+ lb O-lineman has a death grip on your jersey.
I'm no football expert but I watch every game twice win or lose, first I watch the ball, the second I watch the line play and opposition players. He may not be quick but I believe Jake has a naturally strong core much like the shot putter or power lifter, neither of which has the look of a great athlete but have enormous strength. I listen to the pre-game shows every week and I've never heard Doug Brown or any other football professional ever criticize Jake Thomas for his performance. Jake is a convenient target for frustration, but really a minor actor in the total outcome of games.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 24, 2025, 07:52:35 PMI'd gladly defend Jake Thomas on his play every game, I think he completes his assignments 90% of plays, he drives O-linemen back into the pocket as consistently as any other DT on the team. If this was no longer the case I believe the coaching staff would not hesitate to replace him in the lineup as they have a number of available options.
DT is a thankless job, they have to fight humans 50-100 lbs. heavier than they are, who often double up in their effort to defend the QB. Old school DT's job is not to slip past these behemoths to chase the QB, but to physically tangle them up so they can't create holes in the defence. Making tackles are rather difficult when a 300+ lb O-lineman has a death grip on your jersey.
I'm no football expert but I watch every game twice win or lose, first I watch the ball, the second I watch the line play and opposition players. He may not be quick but I believe Jake has a naturally strong core much like the shot putter or power lifter, neither of which has the look of a great athlete but have enormous strength. I listen to the pre-game shows every week and I've never heard Doug Brown or any other football professional ever criticize Jake Thomas for his performance. Jake is a convenient target for frustration, but really a minor actor in the total outcome of games.
In Jake Thomas' best years, he gets around 20 tackles per year. This is the sold but not spectacular player that people defend. Last year was his career high at 23, as he played more snaps than necessary is desired, so got a few more tackles out of the deal.
In a poor Jake Thomas season, he gets 15ish. That's when people start asking what he's even doing out there.
This season he on pace for around 7 tackles. For the whole season. Say whatever you want about pushing the pile, he's being effective right now. Even if your standard is simply what he's always given us.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 24, 2025, 07:08:30 PMWho's defending him or his play?
Blueforlife :) And apparently TLB ( see above )
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 24, 2025, 07:17:41 PMLast person you should blame is Holm, he takes an offside penalty and they move the ball to the one yd. line, that ensures a TD.
That's the lesser of 2 evils. Leave a WR uncovered at the 5 yd line and its a pitch and catch TD, just like what happened. Easiest TD that guy will ever get. Go offside, you get a chance to at least line up in proper formation, 2.5 yds closer to your end zone, but we've made goal line stands before.
I am not picking on Evan Holm, in fact, he is by far, my favourite Bomber, no one else is even close. He flies around and makes plays and brings the hammer while doing it. My point is, when someone of his caliber doesn't recognize the severity of the situation, he is either tuned out of the game, or not properly coached.
we keep making excuses for our defensive line, JT doesn't need sacks he fills the gaps, Willies role has changed to keep contain, etc What it boils down to is that they aren't good enough and we haven't done nearly enough to fix this.
The argos, The stamps both switched out their entire dlines and are both better than us.
If your going to say JT isn't a issue than what is? (or do you feel that were fine.) We're also last in tackles for loss,
team sacks
mtl 15
Tor 14
sask 13
bc 11
cal 9
ham 9
ott 9
wpg 6
edm 3
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 24, 2025, 01:26:37 PMContinue?
Jake Thomas - 5 games played. 2 DTs.
He's easy to pick on (and people shouldn't) -- I think we owed it to him to keep with him until he can't. But it's also fair to say we might have reached 'can't.' 2024 was a major regression from 2023 and it appears it's continued. I don't blame the Bombers for wanting to keep as many pieces of that core. But at some point...
Yes I believe he provides value and will continue to contribute as a depth rotational Canadian
Quote from: Jesse on July 24, 2025, 01:26:51 PMIt's not though.
For me it is at this stage of his career and at Lawson's stage of development and factoring in coming off his injury
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 24, 2025, 05:34:45 PMThis approach indicates members of the fanbase know more about personnel evaluation than the team's coaching staff, which is a delusional concept to begin with. Are you prepared to debate Jordan Younger on the merits of Jake Thomas? What facts can you actually bring to the discussion, other then random observations made from the 27th row?
Agree all, more behind Thomas remaining and our lineup decisions than people make it out to be
Arm chair QBs never throw ints lol
Quote from: Pete on July 24, 2025, 05:50:13 PMthats the whole purpose of this forum so that we couch coaches and gms can vent. If I went to younger and said it would have been smarter to go after Greene to replace Ford than add another lb in the off season would he agree who knows. All I can go by is my experience as 30 year+ fan of the game. And yes I would debate him in terms of adding another option at tackle is a good idea.
I don't think he has a lot of choice in playing Thomas cause the alternatives aren't much better, also likely why we resort to three man fronts too much
Three man fronts are league wide trend, been that way for a bit
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 24, 2025, 06:17:11 PMThe defense as a whole is a responsible for that, not just a single player on the D-line.
The same way the offense as a whole is responsible for their part in the loss on Friday. Singling out players isn't productive and undermines the complexity of a team sport such as football.
I won't speak on behalf of TLB, but I don't think that's the implication.
My interpretation of what he posted is that coaches generally know better than fans - for pretty obvious reasons.
Agree all x2, we win and lose as a team, the Bombers have been great due to the sum of the parts and incredible team culture, not individual achievements, Thomas is part of the puzzle, not a corner piece and a pretty easy one to place early but still continues to the entire picture 😉
Quote from: Jesse on July 24, 2025, 05:57:24 PMYou're saying coaches are infallible and don't make mistakes and can never lose?
Stretching here imo
Quote from: Jesse on July 24, 2025, 06:22:58 PMI obviously went too far, but we see this argument all the time. We criticize certain decisions and some posters attack saying, "coaches know better". Obviously different coaches make different decisions and some are simply mistakes.
We have a pretty accomplished group of coaches that have proven to be right more than wrong
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 24, 2025, 06:35:15 PMThe interior of the DL is responsible for giving up 130 yards rushing. Thomas is responsible for RB's running by him and getting washed out by the OL. He's responsible for only having 2 DT's in 5 games.
Yes the rest of the DL has not played well but there is no pressure from the inside players. Those are the ones that should be making DT's when RB's are running up the gut. If they aren't getting to the QB, which they aren't then we shouldn't be seeing the LB's making the tackles 5 - 8 yards downfield as a result.
Defending the play of Thomas is questionable at best. He's a non factor.
Defending the run comes down to play calling and a team effort between the DL and LBs. DL needs to be better. Need to shore up our run D. Thomas is good against the run imo. No pressure from the interior isn't true. Limited pressure would be more accurate imo. All the runs we gave up are not just through the interior of the defence.
Quote from: dd on July 24, 2025, 06:43:21 PMHe's a total non factor, but a fan sentimental favourite--why I'll never know. You can either make plays and contribute, or not, and he is sadly in the 'or not' category. He's done well to make a career of the limited skill set he has, but it was time last season to hang em up, this season is embarassing.
Understating what Thomas has done over a long term with us. Calling him embarrassing doesn't show him any respect. I don't believe you would say that to him in person and believe that tone shouldn't be presented here.
Thomas is at the end of a good career as a good depth rotational DL. End is near but not now. If he was done he wouldn't be getting the reps he does. He also backups the OL. I and other fans will be proud of him when he retires. His longevity and ability to stay healthy is very rare.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 24, 2025, 09:57:07 PMYes I believe he provides value and will continue to contribute as a depth rotational Canadian For me it is at this stage of his career and at Lawson's stage of development and factoring in coming off his injuryAgree all, more behind Thomas remaining and our lineup decisions than people make it out to be
Arm chair QBs never throw ints lolThree man fronts are league wide trend, been that way for a bitAgree all x2, we win and lose as a team, the Bombers have been great due to the sum of the parts and incredible team culture, not individual achievements, Thomas is part of the puzzle, not a corner piece and a pretty easy one to place early but still continues to the entire picture 😉 Stretching here imoWe have a pretty accomplished group of coaches that have proven to be right more than wrong Defending the run comes down to play calling and a team effort between the DL and LBs. DL needs to be better. Need to shore up our run D. Thomas is good against the run imo. No pressure from the interior isn't true. Limited pressure would be more accurate imo. All the runs we gave up are not just through the interior of the defence.Understating what Thomas has done over a long term with us. Calling him embarrassing doesn't show him any respect. I don't believe you would say that to him in person and believe that tone shouldn't be presented here.
Thomas is at the end of a good career as a good depth rotational DL. End is near but not now. If he was done he wouldn't be getting the reps he does. He also backups the OL. I and other fans will be proud of him when he retires. His longevity and ability to stay healthy is very rare.
Delusional even when you're seeing it with your own eyes. The scouting, drafting or free agency could have resolved this. Limited pressure is another way of saying we aren't playing well. If he's filling gaps he'd be making tackles on the RB.
He's only the best option because we failed in all those aspects. There were many good DT's available in free agency
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 24, 2025, 10:24:17 PMDelusional even when you're seeing it with your own eyes. The scouting, drafting or free agency could have resolved this. Limited pressure is another way of saying we aren't playing well. If he's filling gaps he'd be making tackles on the RB.
He's only the best option because we failed in all those aspects. There were many good DT's available in free agency
Totally delusional!!
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 24, 2025, 10:24:17 PMDelusional even when you're seeing it with your own eyes. The scouting, drafting or free agency could have resolved this. Limited pressure is another way of saying we aren't playing well. If he's filling gaps he'd be making tackles on the RB.
He's only the best option because we failed in all those aspects. There were many good DT's available in free agency
Thomas is playing at a level close to Lawson. Never said our DL was great. Defending Thomas as I think he is still a decent Canadian rotational DL that we should keep as we figure out what Lawson is. Yes we could have drafted or brought in more talent but we didn't. Lots of factors why, SMS a leading one imo. Far from our biggest issue. Need more pressure from the unit as a group. A Canadian on the DL at a good price. Can't expect the world at this stage of his career.
Calling someone delusional shows a a lack of respect for me and this forum. It's not about me, we are here to debate the Bombers and all opinions and debating is welcome.
There is no reason for us to continue debating Thomas, we did that already, there is a topic about it. We both stated our opinions, agree to disagree. Time to move on. I love a debate on here, we can all do without the personal attacks please. Some still support Thomas on here, a small group is against him and most are meh...imo
I believe our DL will improve throughout the year and Woods will help in that regard. Lawson will get better hopefully and we can rest Fatboi for a final push to the cup baby.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 24, 2025, 10:36:45 PMThomas is playing at a level close to Lawson. Never said our DL was great. Defending a Thomas as I think he is still a decent Canadian rotational DL that we should keep as we figure out what Thomas was. Yes we could have drafted or brought in more talent but we didn't. Far from our biggest issue. Need more pressure from the unit as a group. A Canadian on the DL at a good price. Can't expect the world.
Calling someone delusional shows a a lack of respect for me and this forum. It's not about me, we are here to debate the Bombers and all opinions and debating is welcome.
I'm calling a spade a spade. I'd also mention that Thomas is the primary Canadian starter at DT and not the rotational DT. Lawson might be starting to get more reps but that's uncertain. He's coming off a season ending injury and Thomas is not. He's completely healthy.
Our DL on defence is our biggest issue on defence. It was posted that we're 2nd last in team sacks and last in TFL.
Opinions are welcome that are based on reality not emotion. I've mentioned this to you before. You're just hung up on his longevity and hard working attitude. The rest of us are forming opinions on results in a descending trend.
We also had the option of retaining Fox. He has 9 DT's so far. Yes he's an import but we had the option of going with 2 import DT's going into the season. Oliveria getting hurt game one may have changed that, but in TC that would have been an option.
Bombers let him go to free agency and sign in Hamilton. Woods got hurt in TC and we didn't keep anyone that we had in TC even if only on the PR.
Our DL is not even middle of the road. We're probably 7th at the moment. Middle of the road would be a steep improvement. We'll see how they fare against the bottom feeding Argos. If the Argos control the LOS, then heads should roll.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 24, 2025, 10:47:26 PMI'm calling a spade a spade. I'd also mention that Thomas is the primary Canadian starter at DT and not the rotational DT. Lawson might be starting to get more reps but that's uncertain. He's coming off a season ending injury and Thomas is not. He's completely healthy.
Our DL on defence is our biggest issue on defence. It was posted that we're 2nd last in team sacks and last in TFL.
Opinions are welcome that are based on reality not emotion. I've mentioned this to you before. You're just hung up on his longevity and hard working attitude. The rest of us are forming opinions on results in a descending trend.
We also had the option of retaining Fox. He has 9 DT's so far. Yes he's an import but we had the option of going with 2 import DT's going into the season. Oliveria getting hurt game one may have changed that, but in TC that would have been an option.
Bombers let him go to free agency and sign in Hamilton. Woods got hurt in TC and we didn't keep anyone that we had in TC even if only on the PR.
Our DL is not even middle of the road. We're probably 7th at the moment. Middle of the road would be a steep improvement. We'll see how they fare against the bottom feeding Argos. If the Argos control the LOS, then heads should roll.
Not everyone shares your view. You are posting your opinion. You make it sound like fact. Yes I would have tried to keep Fox, Garbutt and Haba, can't keep em all. Fox has looked good. Likely couldn't afford those guys or went a different way. Yes we needed Cdn depth behind Thomas and Lawson but easy to fix as needed. Woods will be worth the wait, injuries happen. No heads will roll regardless of outcome Sat. I'm not posting based on emotion, that argument holds zero weight. We rotate everyone on the DL, by the end of the year Thomas will likely have less reps than Lawson, already close and Lawson played less. I see Thomas as a rotational piece. Always has been for the most part. Agree on the DL, it needs work. Focusing on Thomas isn't our biggest issue imo. Others can step up and improve and we will be middle of the pack by years end imo. If healthy.
I think we can get more pressure, Bridges will slowly rebound and our depth at LB will help our D recover from a couple of terrible outing. Too early to state what we are, by labour day we will know.
Yes all about controlling the LOS.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 24, 2025, 10:58:44 PMNot everyone shares your view. You are posting your opinion. Yes I would have tried to keep Fox, Garbutt and Haba, can't keep em all. Fox has looked good. Likely couldn't afford those guys or went a different way. Yes we needed Cdn depth behind Thomas and Lawson but easy to fix as needed. Woods will be worth the wait, injuries happen. No heads will roll regardless of outcome Sat. I'm not posting based on emotion, that argument holds zero weight. We rotate everyone on the DL, by the end of the year Thomas will likely have less reps than Lawson, already close and Lawson played less. I see Thomas as a rotational piece. Always has been for the most part. Agree on the DL, it needs work. Focusing on Thomas isn't our biggest issue imo. Others can step up and improve and we will be middle of the pack by years end imo. If healthy.
I think we can get more pressure, Bridges will slowly rebound and our depth at LB will help our D recover from a couple of terrible outing. Too early to state what we are, by labour day we will know.
A bunch of us are posting hard facts in stats. Stats are the result of performance. Those are not opinions. How many times do you need to see Thomas with his arm outstretched and not being able to bring or even slow down a RB?
Another hard fact is that we knew going into 2025 that we had to improve our DL substantially. We choose to re-sign Thomas and let Fox go among others.
Since this topic is about coaching that is the basis of the complaint as much as it is about Thomas. In re-signing him, it was guaranteed he'd be starting, even before TC started.
See problem. Fix problem. Not even close. Walters had options in free agency. O'Shea had options in selecting the final roster or even approving re-signing Thomas.
Yes Vaughters was a decent signing but if there was any competition in TC, it's long gone all across the DL.
Knowing that Lawson might take awhile to get up to speed, may have made sense to re-sign Thomas as a back up plan per se. However, there should have been a focus looking at potential upgrades in free agency.
Instead we chose to sign Mitchell for $165K and let him sit on the 1 game IR so far this season. I think it's safe to say that we could have signed a pretty good Canadian elsewhere on the roster. J. Jones was signed for $124K. While both are good players and may be needed, I'd call that poor judgment assembling our roster.
We lost 2 starting Canadians and did nothing to improve that impact to the ratio.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 24, 2025, 11:14:00 PMA bunch of us are posting hard facts in stats. Stats are the result of performance. Those are not opinions. How many times do you need to see Thomas with his arm outstretched and not being able to bring or even slow down a RB?
Another hard fact is that we knew going into 2025 that we had to improve our DL substantially. We choose to re-sign Thomas and let Fox go among others.
Since this topic is about coaching that is the basis of the complaint as much as it is about Thomas. In re-signing him, it was guaranteed he'd be starting, even before TC started.
See problem. Fix problem. Not even close. Walters had options in free agency. O'Shea had options in selecting the final roster or even approving re-signing Thomas.
Yes Vaughters was a decent signing but if there was any competition in TC, it's long gone all across the DL.
Knowing that Lawson might take awhile to get up to speed, may have made sense to re-sign Thomas as a back up plan per se. However, there should have been a focus looking at potential upgrades in free agency.
Instead we chose to sign Mitchell for $165K and let him sit on the 1 game IR so far this season. I think it's safe to say that we could have signed a pretty good Canadian elsewhere on the roster. J. Jones was signed for $124K. While both are good players and may be needed, I'd call that poor judgment assembling our roster.
We lost 2 starting Canadians and did nothing to improve that impact to the ratio.
Stats don't tell the entire story. A few us have pointed that out. You post as your narrative is the only valid one. I believe we made reasonable decisions with our roster with a few holes to fill or shore up in order.
OL (always key)
DE (I want more pressure)
Corner (Bridges might work out)
Receiver (new guy might be ok?)
I see us figuring it our with the faces we have and if we do poorly we can pick some new guys up from NFL cuts, have a face or two return and call back cuts from camp if needed. I believe we did a good job balancing our SMS.
Mitchell was a mistake, I would cut him.
J Jones was worth it considering we didn't know Wilson would come back so strong or get injuried. Amazing depth if we get injuries and we will. He will earn his cake imo. Some were playing the Wilson is too slow, old and injury prone tune. Weird how they tuned out lol. Our depth at LB will set us up for a very long time. Pillar of our D imo.
Season is young you post like it's 3/4 done. Let it simmer, patience has paid off for over half a decade and it will again. We are a middle of the road team who will peak late if healthy. Works for me.
Thomas and Lawson are a good combo platter.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 24, 2025, 11:38:43 PMStats don't tell the entire story. A few us have pointed that out. You post as your narrative is the only valid one. I believe we made reasonable decisions with our roster with a few holes to fill or shore up in order.
OL (always key)
DE (I want more pressure)
Corner (Bridges might work out)
Receiver (new guy might be ok?)
I see us figuring it our with the faces we have and if we do poorly we can pick some new guys up from NFL cuts, have a face or two return and call back cuts from camp if needed. I believe we did a good job balancing our SMS.
Mitchell was a mistake, I would cut him.
J Jones was worth it considering we didn't know Wilson would come back so strong or get injuried. Amazing depth if we get injuries and we will. He will earn his cake imo. Some were playing the Wilson is too slow, old and injury prone tune. Weird how they tuned out lol. Our depth at LB will set us up for a very long time. Pillar of our D imo.
Season is young you post like it's 3/4 done. Let it simmer, patience has paid off for over half a decade and it will again. We are a middle of the road team who will peak late if healthy. Works for me.
Thomas and Lawson are a good combo platter.
the problem is we knew all those holes before the season started and we didnt address them aequately through coaching or gm moves. I'm hoping we turn it around against the argos as well
Quote from: Pete on July 24, 2025, 11:48:44 PMthe problem is we knew all those holes before the season started and we didnt address them aequately through coaching or gm moves. I'm hoping we turn it around against the argos as well
OL and receivers hurt, will sort itself
DL who knows
Corner patience will pay off and if it doesn't we buy our way out of it
Be a great tilt no doubt!
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 24, 2025, 11:38:43 PMStats don't tell the entire story. A few us have pointed that out. You post as your narrative is the only valid one. I believe we made reasonable decisions with our roster with a few holes to fill or shore up in order.
OL (always key)
DE (I want more pressure)
Corner (Bridges might work out)
Receiver (new guy might be ok?)
I see us figuring it our with the faces we have and if we do poorly we can pick some new guys up from NFL cuts, have a face or two return and call back cuts from camp if needed. I believe we did a good job balancing our SMS.
Mitchell was a mistake, I would cut him.
J Jones was worth it considering we didn't know Wilson would come back so strong or get injuried. Amazing depth if we get injuries and we will. He will earn his cake imo. Some were playing the Wilson is too slow, old and injury prone tune. Weird how they tuned out lol. Our depth at LB will set us up for a very long time. Pillar of our D imo.
Season is young you post like it's 3/4 done. Let it simmer, patience has paid off for over half a decade and it will again. We are a middle of the road team who will peak late if healthy. Works for me.
Thomas and Lawson are a good combo platter.
Of course stats don't tell the entire story. Performance leads to stats. Not being able to shed a block and getting washed out is pretty conclusive and why there are no stats.
I haven't said the season is done. I've said that management didn't address a known problem and we're paying the price. Look back to posts at the beginning of the year. The weaknesses were well know. We re-signed Thomas in mid January before free agency.
Even in 2024 when we were starting 10 Canadians we choose to NOT use two import DT's. As you pointed out, this topic string is about coaching / management and it's been pointed out what they could have / should have been doing.
There are other issues on the OL and receiver but the expectation was that Schoen would regain form. There were some players that looked promising in pre season and none survived the final cuts.
If we had spend Mitchell's $165K on a starting Canadian we could have planned to start 2 import DT's that I mentioned.
However it was clear very early that we were maintaining a status quo for the most part. Consider the DL that the Stamps brought in during free agency, also the Riders and the Elks.
Quote from: Pete on July 24, 2025, 11:48:44 PMthe problem is we knew all those holes before the season started and we didnt address them aequately through coaching or gm moves. I'm hoping we turn it around against the argos as well
Noting that we could have gone after D. Webb who signed in Calgary day 1 of free agency. There were other top players both Canadian and Imports available. That's the disappointment.
I think Bridges probably comes around. I have less faith in Sterns and Case though.
When have we ever picked up NFL cuts and played them that season unless we had injuries forcing it. That's only an excuse for not doing better before TC.
We either start mitchel or cut him, having him sit out and pay him big $$ is ridiculous.
Quote from: dd on July 25, 2025, 06:03:14 AMWe either start mitchel or cut him, having him sit out and pay him big $$ is ridiculous.
I'm starting to wonder, if he's such a bad headcase that by making him sit and then having him "earn" the start, that might help him snap out of his funk. This could be nothing but psychology.
If we just put him on the field having earned nothing and looking like crap then he'll be a guaranteed C.Matthews 2.0.
That's my last straw to grasp at, and I'm sticking to it!
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 24, 2025, 10:47:26 PMOur DL is not even middle of the road. We're probably 7th at the moment. Middle of the road would be a steep improvement. We'll see how they fare against the bottom feeding Argos. If the Argos control the LOS, then heads should roll.
Our DL may be very opponent-specific. They did exceptionally well against the "running" QBs, like Rourke & Ford. They kept Ford to basically 0 yards running. That is incredible.
Our DL seems to stink against good pocket passers with strong arms, and against good OLs. I'd say they are probably 8th or 9th worst in that regard. SSK is gonna cream us in a few weeks if we don't find some solutions.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 24, 2025, 10:24:17 PMDelusional even when you're seeing it with your own eyes. The scouting, drafting or free agency could have resolved this. Limited pressure is another way of saying we aren't playing well. If he's filling gaps he'd be making tackles on the RB.
It's not "is Fatboi good", it's "is Fatboi good within the confines of the ratio and the SMS". Clearly he 100% is the latter, or he wouldn't be here still.
If you want to blame someone for overall DL funk, blame KW (and MOS). KW has
never prioritized DL unit in terms of total pay. I bet we have the cheapest DL unit in the league by miles.
This is a conscious choice by KW & Mafia. If you want to scream, scream at them.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 24, 2025, 07:52:35 PMI'd gladly defend Jake Thomas on his play every game, I think he completes his assignments 90% of plays, he drives O-linemen back into the pocket as consistently as any other DT on the team. If this was no longer the case I believe the coaching staff would not hesitate to replace him in the lineup as they have a number of available options.
I think this is a great post. So many people don't watch the games carefully (especially more than once). So many miss what's actually happening on the lines. So of course they'd undervalue Fatboi, because Fatboi has zero splash and doesn't stand out.
The DL is just like the OL: they have to play as a complete unit. Only when they gel and all are on the same page do good things happen. And they know this, as that's why when interviewed they always talk about the pressure and never the individual stat.
Out DL as a unit is pretty bad right now when facing good OLs. Maybe the coaching is letting them down. Maybe the talent just isn't there. But until we can get consistent pressure we'll continue to get eaten alive by good teams.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 24, 2025, 05:34:45 PMWhat facts can you actually bring to the discussion, other then random observations made from the 27th row?
Hey, don't bash the high-numbered rows! ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 24, 2025, 01:29:03 PMNeed more beef in the middle, IMO. The current group isn't cutting it.
Holy Moses, look at the beef on the sidelines in the MTL and CGY game for their DLs. Wow. Their upper arms are thicker than Fatboi's waist. Some of these guys are over 300 lbs, and it's all muscle.
We haven't had that since Nevis & Stove.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 24, 2025, 01:26:37 PMJake Thomas - 5 games played. 2 DTs.
He's easy to pick on (and people shouldn't) -- I think we owed it to him to keep with him until he can't. But it's also fair to say we might have reached 'can't.' 2024 was a major regression from 2023 and it appears it's continued. I don't blame the Bombers for wanting to keep as many pieces of that core. But at some point...
As someone else said, '24 was Fatboi's first "every snap" year. And that was basically because of Lawson season-ender. I think he carried his own weight considering everyone had written him off as "could never play every snap".
And Fatboi and Lawson are basically clones of each other, in size, appearance (with helmet) and play style. If I edited out the numbers, and the FM-holding thing Fatboi does pre-snap, and then told you to say "Fatboi" or "Lawson", I guarantee everyone here would guess not much better than random chance.
If you want to criticize Fatboi, do Lawson too. He's just a much a part of the stinky unit as Fatboi.
Quote from: RebusRankin on July 23, 2025, 07:27:50 PMTell you what, find me actual examples of Thomas having an impact and get back to me or tell me which CFL picks him up if we cut him.
Oh, someone will hire him. Biggie is proof of that. Fatboi may have even more of the "book" than Biggie!!
Now, will someone dress him or start him? Probably dress. He'd make a good NAT backup/speller anywhere.
Quote from: TBURGESS on July 23, 2025, 06:28:24 PMIMO you're grossly underestimating how badly we got beat by Calgary, twice.
I'm not! And now we have a great "comp" in the MTL@CGY game last night. MTL "stayed with" CGY much better. CGY got heaps more pressure on VAJ and had him throwing off his mark half the night (something that didn't happen
at all in our game).
The result doesn't mean anything as that CGY backup QB is worse than Brian Brohm.
VAJ was still gonna win if he hadn't gotten pasted, even without megastar Alford. But MTL kept it closer!
Therefore it's pretty easy to say we are worse than CGY and MTL right now. That's right, worse than MTL with MBT in at QB! This is a sad state of affairs.
Quote from: dd on July 23, 2025, 05:39:24 PMWhere were they filling gaps vs Calgary. Mills and their backup RB ran up the gut and gashed us for huge yards.
Be honest. Most of CGY's big runs were outside. In fact, most teams have figured this out. Get their big RBs pounding outside and our tiny little DBs can't do anything about it.
We still did good against the gut run. We always do. We tend to stop them all for 3-6Y. Yes, it's not great, but that's what we seem to aim for in our "bend don't break".
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 25, 2025, 08:04:31 AMHoly Moses, look at the beef on the sidelines in the MTL and CGY game for their DLs. Wow. Their upper arms are thicker than Fatboi's waist. Some of these guys are over 300 lbs, and it's all muscle.
We haven't had that since Nevis & Stove.
Bingo. Sayles was a nice piece as well, but he moved on. The D-line doesn't have the size down the middle anymore, and it's creating other issues for the defense.
Relying on undersized interior DLs in a rotation can work but it hinges on the performance of the front 7 as a whole, IMO. That hasn't worked the last two games.
2025 free agent acquisitions:
1. Vaughters: doing not bad
2. Sterns: marginal output so far.
3. Gowonlock, Hagerty and White released.
4. Logan injured during TC.
5. Mitchell healthy but hasn't made AR yet this year.
6. J. Jones healthy but hasn't made AR yet this year.
7. Cobb, sitting on PR.
8. Makonzo on 6 game IR. Might be ready soon.
That was not a successful free agency except for non Bombers being extended.
EDIT: Late additions to PR from 24.
None that I can tell. Person is here but he was added around LD?
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 25, 2025, 02:06:12 PM2025 free agent acquisitions:
1. Vaughters: doing not bad
2. Sterns: marginal output so far.
3. Gowonlock, Hagerty and White released.
4. Logan injured during TC.
5. Mitchell healthy but hasn't made AR yet this year.
6. Cobb, sitting on PR.
That was not a successful free agency except for non Bombers being extended.
but of a so-so effort - expected more for this year TBH
Quote from: The Zipp on July 25, 2025, 02:45:19 PMbut of a so-so effort - expected more for this year TBH
Yup. I'm sure none of those guys are doing what Walters expected.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 25, 2025, 02:06:12 PM2025 free agent acquisitions:
1. Vaughters: doing not bad
2. Sterns: marginal output so far.
3. Gowonlock, Hagerty and White released.
4. Logan injured during TC.
5. Mitchell healthy but hasn't made AR yet this year.
6. J. Jones healthy but hasn't made AR yet this year.
7. Cobb, sitting on PR.
8. Makonzo on 6 game IR. Might be ready soon.
That was not a successful free agency except for non Bombers being extended.
EDIT: Late additions to PR from 24.
None that I can tell. Person is here but he was added around LD?
Don't think anyone was critical of these signings when first announced, had some unfortunate circumstance but most on that list are still considered solid players, just haven't found their fit yet.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 24, 2025, 07:52:35 PMI'd gladly defend Jake Thomas on his play every game, I think he completes his assignments 90% of plays, he drives O-linemen back into the pocket as consistently as any other DT on the team. If this was no longer the case I believe the coaching staff would not hesitate to replace him in the lineup as they have a number of available options.
DT is a thankless job, they have to fight humans 50-100 lbs. heavier than they are, who often double up in their effort to defend the QB. Old school DT's job is not to slip past these behemoths to chase the QB, but to physically tangle them up so they can't create holes in the defence. Making tackles are rather difficult when a 300+ lb O-lineman has a death grip on your jersey.
I'm no football expert but I watch every game twice win or lose, first I watch the ball, the second I watch the line play and opposition players. He may not be quick but I believe Jake has a naturally strong core much like the shot putter or power lifter, neither of which has the look of a great athlete but have enormous strength. I listen to the pre-game shows every week and I've never heard Doug Brown or any other football professional ever criticize Jake Thomas for his performance. Jake is a convenient target for frustration, but really a minor actor in the total outcome of games.
I believe facts are presented above and I agree with all of this
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 25, 2025, 08:01:13 AMI think this is a great post. So many people don't watch the games carefully (especially more than once). So many miss what's actually happening on the lines. So of course they'd undervalue Fatboi, because Fatboi has zero splash and doesn't stand out.
The DL is just like the OL: they have to play as a complete unit. Only when they gel and all are on the same page do good things happen. And they know this, as that's why when interviewed they always talk about the pressure and never the individual stat.
Out DL as a unit is pretty bad right now when facing good OLs. Maybe the coaching is letting them down. Maybe the talent just isn't there. But until we can get consistent pressure we'll continue to get eaten alive by good teams.
Agree all, well said
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 25, 2025, 07:57:36 AMIt's not "is Fatboi good", it's "is Fatboi good within the confines of the ratio and the SMS". Clearly he 100% is the latter, or he wouldn't be here still.
If you want to blame someone for overall DL funk, blame KW (and MOS). KW has never prioritized DL unit in terms of total pay. I bet we have the cheapest DL unit in the league by miles.
This is a conscious choice by KW & Mafia. If you want to scream, scream at them.
that's been my point all along,
its not on JT. I don't know why we didn't bring in more dline in training camp or weren't more active in free agency on the dline. Its been an issue since Jefferson left. Why didn't we resign Garbutt and Fox? both are outperforming what we have.
I don't know if its Walters or OShea not wanting more changes. At this point the only hopes we have are
Woods getting healthy and making a difference
Lawton getting better as the season goes on, some injuries take more time to really get over
I don't see nfl cuts helping as OShea is unlikely to play a rookie. Its part of why I started this thread on coaching.
This was on the broadcast last night. If you buy the argument that the Bombers value pressures over sacks (even though pressures should lead to sacks), shouldn't we see some Bombers on the list? We haven't had any of our DL miss any games.
Quote from: Jesse on July 26, 2025, 05:00:32 PMThis was on the broadcast last night. If you buy the argument that the Bombers value pressures over sacks (even though pressures should lead to sacks), shouldn't we see some Bombers on the list? We haven't had any of our DL miss any games.
I thin the Bombers are the only team that's had 2 byes so far, so that donit help.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 26, 2025, 05:39:31 PMI thin the Bombers are the only team that's had 2 byes so far, so that donit help.
Fair, but I wouldn't expect to see us up there anyway.
Also not cool that 4 of the 7 players up there are form teams who have played us twice. Not a very good sign from our OL.
Our pressures will increase as our DL gels and we get Woods back
Will be middle of the pack I think but that a guess as I don't know where we stand now
Quote from: DM83 on July 27, 2025, 03:27:37 AMNo matter who starts or plays,you have to produce. Sissy's who can't wrap up on efforts to tackle , DBs who can't close and wrap up are cheating their teammates.those guys should. Not be on a cFL team. They certainly do not play in an NFL team.
Plus our DBs are tiny.
In truth, our defense has lots of guys that can't make plays. Hence 8th place on the horizon.
The Mafia should be finished after the season, if they last that long. Poor job this year.
I think the mafia are in for some rough times, but they've done too much to lose their jobs. I really don't see this group making the playoffs though without some serious injection of reciever talent
Quote from: dd on July 27, 2025, 03:35:36 AMI think the mafia are in for some rough times, but they've done too much to lose their jobs. I really don't see this group making the playoffs though without some serious injection of reciever talent
the play calling is atrocious. Not running with Brady is completely idiotic. Hogan is shockingly brutal at calling plays.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 25, 2025, 02:06:12 PMThat was not a successful free agency except for non Bombers being extended.
The only "excitement FA" in this group, when they signed, was Mitchell, White, Logan, and maybe Vaughters. I don't recall anyone being excited about Sterns.
The only huge excitement was Mitchell, and the signing bonus reflects that.
Even without hindsight, it wasn't a splash FA. It was more "tweak mode". Which MUST mean we have gobs of SMS sitting somewhere?
2013 FA, SSK home GC year, they make sure they pay whatever it takes for top REC Geroy.
That's what we should have been doing.
offensive playcalling was so good to start the year, but seems to falter when we're down. defensively, i don't know. i like the concept but it has to be executed well and thus far it hasn't. it needs good DBs who can stay with their man. we don't have that now. it's so difficult to gauge how much is on coaching because execution has been so rough
Quote from: dd on July 25, 2025, 06:03:14 AMWe either start mitchel or cut him, having him sit out and pay him big $$ is ridiculous.
Not paying him big bucks - at least, not anymore. His signing bonus was big bucks, but after bonus salary is just above league minimum (as per post-game CJOB). So good money may have been spent, but we aren't throwing more at it to see if he may work out yet.
Having said all that, the state of our receiving group as it is, it sure seems to warrant finally bringing him in and seeing what he can do.
Quote from: DM83 on July 27, 2025, 03:27:37 AMNo matter who starts or plays,you have to produce. Sissy's who can't wrap up on efforts to tackle , DBs who can't close and wrap up are cheating their teammates.those guys should. Not be on a cFL team. They certainly do not play in an NFL team.
Plus our DBs are tiny.
In truth, our defense has lots of guys that can't make plays. Hence 8th place on the horizon.
The Mafia should be finished after the season, if they last that long. Poor job this year.
There it is calling for coaches to be fired. Wow. Seen this story before, then we got to 5 cups in a row. I'll give 3 to 1 odds all our coaches make it to the end of the year and most return.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 27, 2025, 03:52:40 AMthe play calling is atrocious. Not running with Brady is completely idiotic. Hogan is shocking brutal at calling plays.
he was so good until Clercius got called for holding on the Chris-Ike TD @ BC. Since that play, it's like he's scared to be innovative.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 27, 2025, 04:44:06 AM2013 FA, SSK home GC year, they make sure they pay whatever it takes for top REC Geroy.
That's what we should have been doing.
This regime has never operated in such a way, though.
And I, for one, am glad for that. Taman was a lousy GM.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 27, 2025, 04:44:06 AM2013 FA, SSK home GC year, they make sure they pay whatever it takes for top REC Geroy.
That's what we should have been doing.
completely agree and it wouldn't have been going out an signing a bunch of free agents Even if we had just signed lawler and replacements for ford and dobson we wouldn't be where we are.
I know hindsight is 50/50 but it was a huge lack of appreciation to the fans who have sold out the home games more than any team in the league. They deserved a fighting chance to win won at home.
Does Wade Miller have final decision power on spending on players?
The Bombers have been making a profit... player costs has to be part of that doesn't it?
When people say the Bombers aren't spending as much as they are allowed, doesn't this consideration come into it?
That Miller gives Walter's a budge to work with?
Quote from: Pete on July 28, 2025, 02:22:52 PMcompletely agree and it wouldn't have been going out an signing a bunch of free agents Even if we had just signed lawler and replacements for ford and dobson we wouldn't be where we are.
I know hindsight is 50/50 but it was a huge lack of appreciation to the fans who have sold out the home games more than any team in the league. They deserved a fighting chance to win won at home.
I think Lawler was gone. I don't really put that on the club. And also good riddance.
I think drafting had a few too many misses over the last 5 years. 2019 saw us have immediate impact players, but I don't think we have a single 1st round player on the roster right now who's a significant part of our team. I think that's really affected the OL pipeline.
Quote from: markf on July 28, 2025, 03:05:45 PMDoes Wade Miller have final decision power on spending on players?
The Bombers have been making a profit... player costs has to be part of that doesn't it?
When people say the Bombers aren't spending as much as they are allowed, doesn't this consideration come into it?
That Miller gives Walter's a budge to work with?
Salary cap?
Quote from: markf on July 28, 2025, 03:05:45 PMDoes Wade Miller have final decision power on spending on players?
The Bombers have been making a profit... player costs has to be part of that doesn't it?
When people say the Bombers aren't spending as much as they are allowed, doesn't this consideration come into it?
That Miller gives Walter's a budge to work with?
Wade muffed the 2015 cup season. He did not have the lead up time he had for this one though , the team was bad for awhile back then. Hard to believe he is fumbling this one away. Like others have said, Riders at home in 2013. Taman went all in. A lot of the good will and momentum is going to be lost if this is the product they stick us with for the remainder of the season. That said, I expect big and major changes coming soon.
Quote from: Strevy on July 28, 2025, 03:11:42 PMThat said, I expect big and major changes coming soon.
I don't necessarily want to feed the troll here, but what possible changes would you be expecting soon?
Quote from: Jesse on July 28, 2025, 03:21:23 PMI don't necessarily want to feed the troll here, but what possible changes would you be expecting soon?
I think Jarious Jackson is a little over qualified for his current position and did fairly well taking over for Jones as interim. I think he might play a bigger role as the season continues.....unless of course they somehow do a complete 180 over the next while. The compete level is the most concerning imo.
Quote from: Jesse on July 28, 2025, 03:21:23 PMI don't necessarily want to feed the troll here, but what possible changes would you be expecting soon?
IMHO I doubt there will be any major changes - maybe some minor tweaks etc. Maybe getting a few players back from injury will help a little. As for me I doubt we will see much change occurring! I believe it is too late in the season to make any significant changes given that IMHO Bomber Management really made too many major mistakes in the last off season and can not recover in time for this year.
Quote from: BBRT on July 28, 2025, 03:44:25 PMIMHO I doubt there will be any major changes - maybe some minor tweaks etc. Maybe getting a few players back from injury will help a little. As for me I doubt we will see much change occurring! I believe it is too late in the season to make any significant changes given that IMHO Bomber Management really made too many major mistakes in the last off season and can not recover in time for this year.
JJ turned the EE around last season and almost made the playoffs. Had winning record taking over a poor team. Never say never, especially in pro football. Anyway, we have three of four against the bottom feeders. Already dropped one, Calgary will likely crush us again,not much wiggle room left imo. It's going to be an interesting few weeks.
Quote from: Jesse on July 28, 2025, 03:21:23 PMI don't necessarily want to feed the troll here, but what possible changes would you be expecting soon?
Expecting a change at receiver by necessity and possibly kick returner if Logan is ready.
Otherwise MOS says this:
Blue Bombers boss said there would be no rash in-the-moment decisions made in the immediate aftermath or the days ahead. Instead, they'll do what they always do — stick to the process is the party line — and hold firm that more film study, more work, and more preparation will put an end to a three-game skid
https://www.bluebombers.com/2025/07/27/upon-further-review-tor-31-wpg-17/
Quote from: Waffler on July 28, 2025, 03:58:50 PMExpecting a change at receiver by necessity and possibly kick returner if Logan is ready.
Otherwise MOS says this:
Blue Bombers boss said there would be no rash in-the-moment decisions made in the immediate aftermath or the days ahead. Instead, they'll do what they always do — stick to the process is the party line — and hold firm that more film study, more work, and more preparation will put an end to a three-game skid
https://www.bluebombers.com/2025/07/27/upon-further-review-tor-31-wpg-17/
Sometimes changes have to be made, if not they can be made for you I suppose.....these next three are much watch TV imo. Well, one in person.
Change for the sake of change ain't it. That shouldn't be the approach, IMO.
This recent slide has been ugly, no question. We're only 1/3 through the season here, though.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 28, 2025, 04:28:38 PMChange for the sake of change ain't it. That shouldn't be the approach, IMO.
This recent slide has been ugly, no question. We're only 1/3 through the season here, though.
How about change after losing three games in a row. Games the team was never really in and showed poor compete level at all three phases? Should be more than a return from injury and an injury replacement in most cases one would think. But not surprising some are sitting on their hands. Let's see what Friday brings, hopefully some spark comes alive in them.
Quote from: Pete on July 28, 2025, 02:22:52 PMcompletely agree and it wouldn't have been going out an signing a bunch of free agents Even if we had just signed lawler and replacements for ford and dobson we wouldn't be where we are.
I know hindsight is 50/50 but it was a huge lack of appreciation to the fans who have sold out the home games more than any team in the league. They deserved a fighting chance to win won at home.
The Bomber home record the last 5 years has been outstanding, please accept that as the fans reward for attending the games. Looks like most of them had a good time and enjoyed the experience.
We will stay the course. We will see a new receiver. Hopefully get healthy on the OL. There isn't big change coming. Stay the course, do some tweaks and keep active looking for players to add to the PR. All about the OL imo. I expect a bumpy road this summer, a little better early fall and a strong finish. I think home playoff game is out of reach. Get hot / healthy when it counts. Have a couple existing guys step up. Maybe a couple old faces return. Sign a couple and i think we can right this ship. I don't expect the world out of this club but I also see enough talent to still have a shot come late fall.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 28, 2025, 06:51:28 PMWe will stay the course. We will see a new receiver. Hopefully get healthy on the OL. There isn't big change coming. Stay the course, do some tweaks and keep active looking for players to add to the PR. All about the OL imo. I expect a bumpy road this summer, a little better early fall and a strong finish. I think home playoff game is out of reach. Get hot / healthy when it counts. Have a couple existing guys step up. Maybe a couple old faces return. Sign a couple and i think we can right this ship. I don't expect the world out of this club but I also see enough talent to still have a shot come late fall.
This is what will bring the big change I expect imo. I see this to be the blueprint that will be followed. Wouldn't expect anything else. A 3-4 win team heading into /after Banjo should tip the first domino.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 28, 2025, 04:28:38 PMChange for the sake of change ain't it. That shouldn't be the approach, IMO.
This recent slide has been ugly, no question. We're only 1/3 through the season here, though.
I'm hoping for some injury related changes:
Obviously Zach playing an entire game, getting Stanley back, Vanterpool back at guard. Logan in on returns. I'd personally get Woods in at tackle and play Thomas less.
Non-injury related changes: I don't think Parker is doing a good job at safety. I loved him at corner when he was first coming up, so that's a two-birds one stone move. The big thing is who do we play at safety? People loved Cam Allen in preseason but does playing a rookie there help with communication breakdowns? I honestly don't know the answer, but it's been a season long challenge and isn't change for the sake of change, it's trying to fix a very real problem.
The other one being simply get Mitchell in the receiving core. I don't know what lapses kept him off the field, but if he's in game shape, get him on the field. Simplify his route tree if he's not picking up the assignments properly. Use the tools you have, not the tools you wish you had.
Quote from: Jesse on July 28, 2025, 07:46:45 PMI'm hoping for some injury related changes:
Obviously Zach playing an entire game, getting Stanley back, Vanterpool back at guard. Logan in on returns. I'd personally get Woods in at tackle and play Thomas less.
Non-injury related changes: I don't think Parker is doing a good job at safety. I loved him at corner when he was first coming up, so that's a two-birds one stone move. The big thing is who do we play at safety? People loved Cam Allen in preseason but does playing a rookie there help with communication breakdowns? I honestly don't know the answer, but it's been a season long change and isn't change for the sake of change, it's trying to fix a very real problem.
If Parker is going to be replaced at Safety I'd like to see a Natl. in his place, just for the added ratio flexibility it could bring. Possible solutions: Jake Kelly, Kramdi, Makonzo, maybe draft pick Smith if he understands the secondary playbook well enough.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 28, 2025, 08:20:02 PMIf Parker is going to be replaced at Safety I'd like to see a Natl. in his place, just for the added ratio flexibility it could bring. Possible solutions: Jake Kelly, Kramdi, Makonzo, maybe draft pick Smith if he understands the secondary playbook well enough.
We don't really need more ratio flexibility. We just need the best players possible.
Quote from: Jesse on July 28, 2025, 07:46:45 PMI'm hoping for some injury related changes:
Obviously Zach playing an entire game, getting Stanley back, Vanterpool back at guard. Logan in on returns. I'd personally get Woods in at tackle and play Thomas less.
Non-injury related changes: I don't think Parker is doing a good job at safety. I loved him at corner when he was first coming up, so that's a two-birds one stone move. The big thing is who do we play at safety? People loved Cam Allen in preseason but does playing a rookie there help with communication breakdowns? I honestly don't know the answer, but it's been a season long challenge and isn't change for the sake of change, it's trying to fix a very real problem.
The other one being simply get Mitchell in the receiving core. I don't know what lapses kept him off the field, but if he's in game shape, get him on the field. Simplify his route tree if he's not picking up the assignments properly. Use the tools you have, not the tools you wish you had.
I keep Parker at safety
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 28, 2025, 08:20:02 PMIf Parker is going to be replaced at Safety I'd like to see a Natl. in his place, just for the added ratio flexibility it could bring. Possible solutions: Jake Kelly, Kramdi, Makonzo, maybe draft pick Smith if he understands the secondary playbook well enough.
Kramdi is going great where he is, I would not consider that
Quote from: bluebeard on July 21, 2025, 07:19:14 PMWow... we have lost one game and some of us are flipping out. The sky is not falling. It is a long season and it really is only about one third played. We've gone to the Cup the last few seasons. Other teams wish ( I think) to be in our shoes. Give the coaching staff half a chance. :(
I think you mean 3 games in a row.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 28, 2025, 08:40:16 PMI keep Parker at safetyKramdi is going great where he is, I would not consider that
I think its time for some changed 3 bad games in a row for the Secondary something needs to change.
Quote from: Jesse on July 28, 2025, 08:21:27 PMWe don't really need more ratio flexibility. We just need the best players possible.
Sure they do, they'll need it when Woods becomes healthy, if not Woods comes on Person and Kornelson come off or Woods remains on the 1 game IR indefinitely.
Quote from: BBFANDM on July 28, 2025, 09:14:43 PMI think its time for some changed 3 bad games in a row for the Secondary something needs to change.
Yeah need to figure that out. I would try Vaval a little more at corner. I don't see a quick solution to our issues, Bridges will take time. If the DL can play good again and our OL, I'm not worried
Quote from: BBFANDM on July 28, 2025, 09:14:43 PMI think its time for some changed 3 bad games in a row for the Secondary something needs to change.
Absolutely. This past loss was the worst. Even steady Nichols & Holm were bad.
Swap Griffin in for Parker, Parker for Bridges. Let the new LBers get some snaps in place of Griffin.
Not a huge change, but badly needed IMO.
MOS said in his post game presser that they're going to go through the process like they always do, evaluate the game play by play and figure out what's going wrong, whether its scheme, players not understanding the scheme/their role, or the player themselves.
Nobody, including the coaches and players, are happy with the current situation. It's not like we're losing in overtime or by a last second field goal, we are being pumped, thoroughly, offense and defense, so bad, that you'd think we never had a training camp.
MOS knows defense, was an outstanding LB and defensive leader and captain, he'll get the defense figured out with Richie Hall and Younger, its the offense I am worried about. Rookie OC, struggling/declining Qb, with less than stellar recieving corps, and it's not like we aren't just scoring points, we are turning the ball over like I've never seen before, and that trend goes back to the GC. Have we not learned anything?? I don't care if we don't score, go 2 and out and punt the **** thing, but quit turning the ball over and giving the other team mega points in the process. And that comes down to play calling and execution. First play in the playbook --Quit turning the ball over!!!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 28, 2025, 08:20:02 PMIf Parker is going to be replaced at Safety I'd like to see a Natl. in his place, just for the added ratio flexibility it could bring. Possible solutions: Jake Kelly, Kramdi, Makonzo, maybe draft pick Smith if he understands the secondary playbook well enough.
Kelly is probably coming off the 6 game IR this week. He might be our safety for this weeks game. IDK but he's the only Canadian that might fill the role.
I think some people are forgetting that the success of our team was built on making changes when things weren't working. It wasn't patience and things worked out, it was turning over the roster and depth chart until it did.
We put Travis Bonds in at Guard to stabilize the OL, we moved Brandon Alexander to safety (both situations were changing the ratio to upgrade the position).
Most of the core was bought through FA. Bighill was signed when he came back late from the NFL, Collaros traded for because we knew Strev wasn't the answer.
Everything people are saying "MOS doesn't do because he's too loyal to his guys", he's already done. We just haven't needed to since we found the right combination. That doesn't mean they won't if need to, because we've already seen them do it.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 29, 2025, 12:00:25 AMKelly is probably coming off the 6 game IR this week. He might be our safety for this weeks game. IDK but he's the only Canadian that might fill the role.
I don't remember him well but I as know some think he's shows promise and I don't remember a bunch of issues when he did get reps, if someone can jog my commodore 64 brain limited memory that would be welcome. I would prefer to give a guy a couple weeks before starting. Rotate 1st.
Quote from: Jesse on July 29, 2025, 01:17:52 AMI think some people are forgetting that the success of our team was built on making changes when things weren't working. It wasn't patience and things worked out, it was turning over the roster and depth chart until it did.
We put Travis Bonds in at Guard to stabilize the OL, we moved Brandon Alexander to safety (both situations were changing the ratio to upgrade the position).
Most of the core was bought through FA. Bighill was signed when he came back late from the NFL, Collaros traded for because we knew Strev wasn't the answer.
Everything people are saying "MOS doesn't do because he's too loyal to his guys", he's already done. We just haven't needed to since we found the right combination. That doesn't mean they won't if need to, because we've already seen them do it.
A combo and patience, changes, turnover and adapting made us great imo. Agree we likely have most the pieces and yes the right combo could dial us in nicely. I like your take here, we don't always see eye to eye on our posts and opinions but this is pretty darn close to my way of thinking.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 29, 2025, 01:31:56 AMI don't remember him well but I as know some think he's shows promise and I don't remember a bunch of issues when he did get reps, if someone can jog my commodore 64 brain limited memory that would be welcome. I would prefer to give a guy a couple weeks before starting. Rotate 1st.A combo and patience, changes, turnover and adapting made us great imo. Agree we likely have most the pieces and yes the right combo could dial us in nicely. I like your take here, we don't always see eye to eye on our posts and opinions but this is pretty darn close to my way of thinking.
Kelly started to get more reps on defence by the end of 2024. Mostly he was playing ST's but moved past Hallett as the Canadian getting defensive reps. He seems to have speed and willingness to hit hard.
That said, any player coming off 6 game IR is going to take some time to get up to speed and into playing condition.
I think he'd have to be phased in before any chance of actually becoming a starter. But he might be in the plans down the road.
Logically Allen would be the 1st choice on an immediate basis if they move Parker to CB. I'm not sure Bridges was injured as well as Vaval or just pulled during the game.
I guess we'll see soon enough who comes off due to new injury and reassess our choices.
Quote from: markf on July 28, 2025, 03:05:45 PMDoes Wade Miller have final decision power on spending on players?
The Bombers have been making a profit... player costs has to be part of that doesn't it?
When people say the Bombers aren't spending as much as they are allowed, doesn't this consideration come into it?
That Miller gives Walter's a budge to work with?
The whole league plays to the SMS cap. That is the budget for players. For every team. Internet says the cap in 2025 is $6M.
WM would have the final decision, as was proven when he forced KW to pay Brady around $50k more than KW's highest offer. But in general KW makes these hiring and $ decisions. WFC tends to stick with hierarchy: each level doing what it is they are supposed to be doing and you try to leave them alone because you trust them.
Our profit has nothing to do with player spend. At all. We are rich enough a team we can even afford to go over a pay penalties, though losing DPs should be avoided (though I'd give up a 2RDP to get a top player).
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 28, 2025, 01:52:50 PMAnd I, for one, am glad for that. Taman was a lousy GM.
... who brought those starving fans a home GC win... Everyone in the stadium that day will remember it forever. The players on that field will be remembered forever as probably the best green team ever. Durant will be a hero forever.
No, we shouldn't be as lousy at everything else as Taman, but we could emulate his FA and trade deals to make sure his team would make his home cup.
Quote from: Jesse on July 29, 2025, 01:17:52 AMI think some people are forgetting that the success of our team was built on making changes when things weren't working. It wasn't patience and things worked out, it was turning over the roster and depth chart until it did.
You are right. But people are more aggravated now because the time from "clear problem" to "helicopter replacement" is increasing. In '19 to '22 we'd make mid and late season changes on D that would sometimes surprise people, and would usually instantly make us better. The last while we seem to stick with the clear problem guys much longer, watching them destroy game after game.
I don't think we can wait until vet cutdown day in order to find some fixes this season. We need to make moves now.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 29, 2025, 12:00:25 AMKelly is probably coming off the 6 game IR this week. He might be our safety for this weeks game. IDK but he's the only Canadian that might fill the role.
IIRC Kelly had a couple of FS starts due to injury in the past, and IIRC the result was not good.
And are people talking about FS now because they want to move Parker to CB? If so, I agree this is a great idea to instantly solve some problems. Parker for Bridges would fix a lot of issues, and the dude is tall-ish.
Quote from: dd on July 28, 2025, 11:12:08 PMIt's not like we're losing in overtime or by a last second field goal, we are being pumped, thoroughly, offense and defense, so bad, that you'd think we never had a training camp.
With our current OL, they never did have a TC. This crap lineup, with 2 OTs that really can't play OT, was never who we intended to field. Get our desired lineup in and we'll be much better.
Quote from: Waffler on July 28, 2025, 03:58:50 PMBlue Bombers boss said there would be no rash in-the-moment decisions made in the immediate aftermath or the days ahead. Instead, they'll do what they always do — stick to the process is the party line — and hold firm that more film study, more work, and more preparation will put an end to a three-game skid
It may put an end to the 3-game skid, but it might take another 5 games to do it!
I promise you this, if they start the exactly same lineup as last week for the next game, then we will lose that game. If Vegas is dumb enough to make us favorites again I will make baaaaaank. My absolute favorite times are when Vegas makes WPG favorites when we're bad, and when they make us underdogs when we're good. Easy money.
Quote from: Jesse on July 28, 2025, 03:09:03 PMI think Lawler was gone. I don't really put that on the club. And also good riddance.
Kenny is a mercenary. He would have stayed had we paid him the same as HAM. And with the extra $400k SMS (that HAM used to afford him) we could have had him...
Kenny even would have stayed here at a $10 maybe $20k discount. We just didn't want to come anywhere close.
As for good riddance: now we see how good our other "good" RECs are when Kenny isn't drawing all the coverage like he did in the HAM game this week. The threats (Kenny, Schoen, Pokey) draw the coverage and your middle-tier guys (Demski, Clercius) are left open.
Maybe that's why Zach is throwing so many INTs. He's not used to so much coverage on the lesser RECs because in the past they were all flowing to Kenny!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 29, 2025, 07:15:01 AMAs for good riddance: now we see how good our other "good" RECs are when Kenny isn't drawing all the coverage like he did in the HAM game this week. The threats (Kenny, Schoen, Pokey) draw the coverage and your middle-tier guys (Demski, Clercius) are left open.
Maybe that's why Zach is throwing so many INTs. He's not used to so much coverage on the lesser RECs because in the past they were all flowing to Kenny!
I would also note that Bo was smart enough not to throw to Kenny when he was doubled. That didn't happen here.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 29, 2025, 06:25:21 AM... who brought those starving fans a home GC win... Everyone in the stadium that day will remember it forever. The players on that field will be remembered forever as probably the best green team ever. Durant will be a hero forever.
No, we shouldn't be as lousy at everything else as Taman, but we could emulate his FA and trade deals to make sure his team would make his home cup.
You sound like a stubblejumper with that first paragraph. Blegh.
Walters already has twice as many Grey Cup rings as Taman.
I hope the former never tries to emulate the latter. And the reasons for that should be plainly obvious.
To be honest, I think that's what Walters tried to do this year. We kept the duck tape together on this roster core hoping we ride it one more year. I think that's going to prove to be not possible but I, and I'm sure most others, would have done the same if they were faced with the same circumstances as Kyle Walters.
In hindsight, last year should have been seen as a middling year on the whole, instead of the pretty smashing success that it ended up with great play down the stretch (aided by a wind miracle and such). If we didn't have this home Grey Cup, maybe we would have gone through a more thorough roster sweep two years ago, or certainly last year. But we didn't and there is. Oh well.
Again, don't think any mistakes were made given the situation. I would have done the same. Most people probably would have I think. It will be interesting to see where this season goes and what we do at the end of it. Coaching isn't a problem. We've got a value for contract problem most especially which has lead to a player problem overall.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 29, 2025, 03:19:21 AMKelly started to get more reps on defence by the end of 2024. Mostly he was playing ST's but moved past Hallett as the Canadian getting defensive reps. He seems to have speed and willingness to hit hard.
That said, any player coming off 6 game IR is going to take some time to get up to speed and into playing condition.
I think he'd have to be phased in before any chance of actually becoming a starter. But he might be in the plans down the road.
Logically Allen would be the 1st choice on an immediate basis if they move Parker to CB. I'm not sure Bridges was injured as well as Vaval or just pulled during the game.
I guess we'll see soon enough who comes off due to new injury and reassess our choices.
Ok now I remember what happened last year, thanks my friend. That's my concern with Kelly, can't rush him back. I also don't want to limit Allen's development by putting him in a difficult position. I never thought that Bridges was nicked, who knows time will tell. I don't have the answer for our secondary. I believe the solution is a few weeks away as we evaluate Kelly and see if Allen could crack the lineup and get some reps. I prefer the low and slow approach. Practice will tell us a lot this week. I am willing to stick with Bridges and or rotate him. I don't know how well Vaval did in his place. A very difficult positional group to find the right balance.
Quote from: Jesse on July 28, 2025, 03:09:03 PMI think Lawler was gone. I don't really put that on the club. And also good riddance.
I think drafting had a few too many misses over the last 5 years. 2019 saw us have immediate impact players, but I don't think we have a single 1st round player on the roster right now who's a significant part of our team. I think that's really affected the OL pipeline.
I am not sure where the good riddance part is coming from, he was amazing for us and is having a potentially record setting year (likely won't happen) but him and BO are a world class duo at the moment imo. He hurt his finger last game, hopefully nothing major.
I don't know how Vaval did when he replaced Bridges. I only speed watched the game to see specific plays and look for reported injuries.
I did notice he had a bunch of DT's which is not necessarily a good thing for a DB. It often means he's being targeted. However I did see him " make " some tackles rather than missing them. That was something I noticed about Bridges was the he missed some early take downs that resulted in big plays.
Adding Dawson to day gives us another option this week. He has experience at CB and DB. In theory he knows enough of the playbook and the CFL that he could start this week.
Whether he is the 1st or best option I don't know. It would only be one move in the secondary instead of 2 if Allen was added.
Need more feedback from someone that sees practices and has better evaluation of Allen. Upside and being ready not necessarily the same thing. But we do see some rookies " start " and do well in their 1st season.
It makes the final decision more interesting with a new option.
Quote from: Waffler on July 29, 2025, 11:51:52 AMI would also note that Bo was smart enough not to throw to Kenny when he was doubled. That didn't happen here.
Lawler is looking fantastic this season because he's playing with a QB that throws the ball more often and effectively, plus BLM and Milanovich always think pass first. Zach and BLM are both good QB's but they're skill levels are not that comparable, BLM is a Div 1 QB, Zach is Div 2, much of Zach's early success involved running the ball, a part of his game that has dropped off dramatically for good reason.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 29, 2025, 01:11:35 PMYou sound like a stubblejumper with that first paragraph. Blegh.
Wow, I've been called a lot of things, and a lot of things on this forum, but stubblejumper is a first! :D :D :D
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 29, 2025, 03:31:22 PMI don't know how Vaval did when he replaced Bridges. I only speed watched the game to see specific plays and look for reported injuries.
It seemed like we were instantly better. Vaval didn't get burned, he was close to his guys. And they kept picking on his spot.
Pretty sad when the backup rookie with almost 0 D snaps comes in and is instantly better than the sophomore who has been >50% of the reason for 3 losses in a row...
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 29, 2025, 03:49:17 PMLawler is looking fantastic this season because he's playing with a QB that throws the ball more often and effectively, plus BLM and Milanovich always think pass first. Zach and BLM are both good QB's but they're skill levels are not that comparable, BLM is a Div 1 QB, Zach is Div 2, much of Zach's early success involved running the ball, a part of his game that has dropped off dramatically for good reason.
Disagree about Zach. At his peak just as good as Bo mid career. That said early Bo was one of best ever.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 30, 2025, 03:07:35 AMWow, I've been called a lot of things, and a lot of things on this forum, but stubblejumper is a first! :D :D :D
I said sound like. I know you're actually not. ;)
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 30, 2025, 03:07:35 AMWow, I've been called a lot of things, and a lot of things on this forum, but stubblejumper is a first! :D :D :D
I also asked google what a stubblejumper is and its a Prairie Grain Farmer LOL
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 30, 2025, 03:11:31 AMIt seemed like we were instantly better. Vaval didn't get burned, he was close to his guys. And they kept picking on his spot.
Pretty sad when the backup rookie with almost 0 D snaps comes in and is instantly better than the sophomore who has been >50% of the reason for 3 losses in a row...
Seems the pressure is on Bridges. Bringing back Dexter Lawson Jr is telling. It's possible to start Vaval and have Mitchell or Cobb do kick returns, they both do rotations there in practice.
Quote from: barbk on July 30, 2025, 04:57:14 PMI also asked google what a stubblejumper is and its a Prairie Grain Farmer LOL
Thank you. I was scared to google it myself, lol.
Quote from: Waffler on July 30, 2025, 05:05:13 PMSeems the pressure is on Bridges. Bringing back Dexter Lawson Jr is telling. It's possible to start Vaval and have Mitchell or Cobb do kick returns, they both do rotations there in practice.
I feel like Mitchell comes in, does returns, and Vaval is starting at DB.
That said, it's short week with a cancelled practice so they'll probably make as little changes as possible.
Quote from: Jesse on July 30, 2025, 06:08:42 PMI feel like Mitchell comes in, does returns, and Vaval is starting at DB.
But Vaval didn't even make the injury report, so he's "officially" 100% good to go, no?
So why not stick status quo and have Vaval return, AND do DB? Fogg used to do it all the time. MOS was asked this in his presser and he made a joke but seemed to think it is not outside the realm of possible.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 31, 2025, 08:22:40 AMBut Vaval didn't even make the injury report, so he's "officially" 100% good to go, no?
So why not stick status quo and have Vaval return, AND do DB? Fogg used to do it all the time. MOS was asked this in his presser and he made a joke but seemed to think it is not outside the realm of possible.
I could see it happening for one game but there is really no need to spread Vaval so thin. If he was Janarion Grant level that would be different. Not much drop off if Cobb or Mitchell do it and you save wear and tear on your secondary.
coaching is a question mark for sure...and players executing reflects on the coaches and coaching decisions may put players in positions they shouldn't be...that said:
cooley hasn't returned kicks since high school so on a week with one practice (not counting the walk through) coaches decide he is the best option. seems odd
the play call to pass in the end zone when we need a fg...very odd play call and strev needs to fire it out of bounds when he sees sterns covered and going against a db 8 inches taller. seems odd
lots of questions on mitchell, but with strev at qb - it really doesn't matter he can't make multiple reads and deliver to the second or third read anyways. the business about him not being able to waggle - well teach him, that is what coaches do..
Corcoran - MOS loves his grit and blocking - takes a penalty for that.
the continued runs up the middle on the sneaky option where strev fakes running with the ball is fooling nobody.
i liked the defensive shuffles this week, good work coaches - Coxie is going to give any DB a challenge.
was Collaros on the sideline? i couldn't see from my seat.
Quote from: The Zipp on August 02, 2025, 04:40:05 AMcoaching is a question mark for sure...and players executing reflects on the coaches and coaching decisions may put players in positions they shouldn't be...that said:
cooley hasn't returned kicks since high school so on a week with one practice (not counting the walk through) coaches decide he is the best option. seems odd
the play call to pass in the end zone when we need a fg...very odd play call and strev needs to fire it out of bounds when he sees sterns covered and going against a db 8 inches taller. seems odd
lots of questions on mitchell, but with strev at qb - it really doesn't matter he can't make multiple reads and deliver to the second or third read anyways. the business about him not being able to waggle - well teach him, that is what coaches do..
Corcoran - MOS loves his grit and blocking - takes a penalty for that.
the continued runs up the middle on the sneaky option where strev fakes running with the ball is fooling nobody.
i liked the defensive shuffles this week, good work coaches - Coxie is going to give any DB a challenge.
was Collaros on the sideline? i couldn't see from my seat.
He was caught on camera, on the sidelines, a few times.
O'Shea was the right coach at the right time. That time is over........
Quote from: The Zipp on August 02, 2025, 04:40:05 AMcooley hasn't returned kicks since high school so on a week with one practice (not counting the walk through) coaches decide he is the best option. seems odd
Cooley not getting a single touch was disappointing. Complete waste of a roster spot just for him to screw up an opening KO.
Quote from: The Zipp on August 02, 2025, 04:40:05 AMCorcoran - MOS loves his grit and blocking - takes a penalty for that.
I swear that Corcoran will catch anything near him. What hands!! I would be shocked if he has a catchable dropsie at all this season, and I am eagerly awaiting his first Dressler-esque or Kenny-esque catch...
Quote from: The Zipp on August 02, 2025, 04:40:05 AMthe continued runs up the middle on the sneaky option where strev fakes running with the ball is fooling nobody.
It worked twice. Once Brady kept it. Once Strev kept it. Both times we got at least 5 I think, one maybe closer to 8? The key is Strev picking which guy gets it... I like the confusion it causes and I saw TOR D paralyzed and triple-thinking their direction.
The problem with the run game remains firmly with the every-changing and lackluster OL. If we had the '21 OL right now Strev & Brady would have had 70 & 120Y respectively. But right now getting pass pro right is more important. First things first.
Coaching issues once again raised its ugly head both roster wise and in game play calling:
1. The most obvious and biggest error of the year was with less than minutes on the 14 yard line calling a deep corner pass which got intercepted. We only needed 3 to make it a two score game.
2. Having Streveler remain in the pocket way to much. He has trouble making reads by having him roll out he's more accurate , makes decisions quicker with less options
3. Trotting out Cooley as a kr with virtually no experience in a week where practice time was very limited. Not only did he fumble the opening kick but his lack of communication with teammates was obvious including on the 4th quarter moon kickoff, He should have been taking control to prevent the ball from bouncing rather than being tentative and seeing if someone else was going to take it.
4. How is Corcoran a better option than Mitchell, certainly the waggle wasn't a factor as he only catches balls for 6 yards. At least Mitchell has a chance to make someone miss. With the added benefit of having experience in kick returns
5. late in the 4th qtr (2.02 remaining) on a 2nd and 4 we decide to have Strev dropback and he gets sacked losing field position RUN THE BALL or at least short quick pass.