Our short passing game ie wideouts screens quick slants are for the most part limited to under 5 yards consistently. We generate the nulk of our offence thru running and mid length/ deep throws
Is this an execution issue?
Do we give away the plays somehow
Is Zac too slow getting the ball out
Or do our receivers lack blocking skills or the skills to make the first man miss?
Against better defenses we need yo improve here.It bit us in grey cup ly.
Agreed that our short game - especially last night - was not working at all. We tried to be creative in a lot of ways but it was largely a failure. Not sure if we are getting the blocking performance we need to pull them off. At the same time, credit to the Edmonton front seven for constantly sniffing us out.
I don't have a solution but it would be nice to be able to dink-dunk here and there when needed as much as I generally don't like this style of offense when that's all we do. Glad we were able to compensate by assembling some nice explosion plays.
We threw to Peterson, Cooley and Chris-Ike a few times with little success. However 2 rookies and a 2nd year player. I like those wrinkles in the game plan. While it didn't rank up yardage it does reduce the pressure from the from 7 rushing the QB.
We don't know when Oliveria will return but we can't expect the rookies to be immediately effective. Also the Elks played very well for the most part on defence.
On the other hand, how many times last year did Zach Collaros hold the ball for 3+ seconds waiting for his receivers to get deep? Way too many.
The wide receiver screens are essentially run plays and should be looked at through that lens. Edmonton did a good job taking away a lot of things underneath but they paid the price for it with one-on-one coverage down the field which ultimately failed them.
Collaros was also 25/30 for 334 yards and 3 TDs on the night so however you feel about the short passing game it didn't result in many incompletions and the offense from a 1000 foot view was successful. It was the passing game at every length that won them the game on offense which is especially important because we had about 23 rushing yards until 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter or something.
Considering 6 of the 8 pass receivers that were targeted by Zach last night had zero misses, that's pretty special. Only Demski and Wheatfall missed passes.
Yes, I hate the 2nd and 10 6 yard pass. Or the pass to the flat at the line of scrimmage. Demski and Wheatfall got blown up on those, but they also did break some.
Overall, 25/30 for 334, 3TD/0INTs is a very good passing game.
I'll take it.
Gary Crowton approved short yardage pass game.
Quote from: theaardvark on June 27, 2025, 03:37:31 PMConsidering 6 of the 8 pass receivers that were targeted by Zach last night had zero misses, that's pretty special. Only Demski and Wheatfall missed passes.
Yes, I hate the 2nd and 10 6 yard pass. Or the pass to the flat at the line of scrimmage. Demski and Wheatfall got blown up on those, but they also did break some.
Overall, 25/30 for 334, 3TD/0INTs is a very good passing game.
I'll take it.
Missing some muscle, notably Woli and Bailey who helped out blocking a lot on those short outs, Wheatfall and Sterns lack mass. Could also have negative effects on the run game.
Hogan and team have some improvement to do...the trend(ish) - 2 games in a row is the start of a trend of really no offensive production in the 3rd is not good. It is still only game 3 for the team so they get the opportunity to improve but it has to get better.
You can't take an entire quarter of pro football off offensively and expect to win against good teams. Zach says it was execution - its always a combo of plays called and what is done on the field.
Quote from: The Zipp on June 27, 2025, 05:03:27 PMHogan and team have some improvement to do...the trend(ish) - 2 games in a row is the start of a trend of really no offensive production in the 3rd is not good. It is still only game 3 for the team so they get the opportunity to improve but it has to get better.
You can't take an entire quarter of pro football off offensively and expect to win against good teams. Zach says it was execution - its always a combo of plays called and what is done on the field.
I like the fact that they stalled but got the motor started again later in the game, that shows that they made adjustments and recovered momentum.
Some teams screens are just killer. Like MTL in '23 (GC, ugh...). Ours go for -5 to +4 max. Maybe we've had 1 decent screen YAC this season? And we've sure made a ton more attempts than we did under Buck!
But, it has a secondary effect, just like runs that get stuffed do: keep the D honest and defending the whole line/field.
I like our mix of plays so far this year. It feels much more balanced than under Buck. If you did the target heat map thing I think it would look much better this season, so far.
As for what's wrong: the blocking is weak. Wheatie appears to be doing better, but not great. Clercius seems to be the best: big surprise, as he's the biggest man. Zach's extra fraction of a sec to get the ball there doesn't help.
Our RECs also don't cheat/hold as aggressively as, say, SSK does. You need to be aggressive until you get a feel for what the refs will tolerate. They often miss a ton. If that helps 5 succeed for 1 10Y penalty, it's probably worth it.
You also have to run the short pass on 1st down too. If you use it just as a dump pass on 2nd & medium/long then the D will often be waiting.
I also want to see more zone sitting, and body-blocking-out-the-DB (i.e. The Eric Rogers Special) at-the-marker passes (did a couple vs EDM!), more LoS crossers. I want less curls and less most-targets-run-to-marker-and-turn thing we do all the time.
Another issue is we don't have recievers/ backs that make that first guy miss, ie Philpot, our rbd tend to be north south
I hope they become a little bit more effective, but as others have said, it's hopefully doing the work of setting up the explosion plays.
Not gonna work if we don't get those big chunk plays to with them, though. So need to figure out a better way to move the ball.
That said, Brady is a big part of this engine and we haven't got to see him yet.
Quote from: Jesse on June 28, 2025, 05:26:31 PMI hope they become a little bit more effective, but as others have said, it's hopefully doing the work of setting up the explosion plays.
Not gonna work if we don't get those big chunk plays to with them, though. So need to figure out a better way to move the ball.
That said, Brady is a big part of this engine and we haven't got to see him yet.
be even more effective if those short plays could actually produce. As mentioned against BC and Edmonton secondaries and dline the deep throw was effective, but ly against better defences it was an issue. as said hopefully we can figure this out
I think a big part of it is that our blocking isn't what it used to be. Darvin Adams, Bailey, Wolitarsky and even Lawler were good aggressive blockers. Clercius is good, but IMO the others are a step back. As mentioned, maybe they need to learn to hold a bit more without getting called.
As far as making the first man miss, that's also an issue. Demski was the main guy I saw Thursday who made a few miss and generated YAC. Wheatfall has potential.
Quote from: bunker on June 28, 2025, 10:13:44 PMI think a big part of it is that our blocking isn't what it used to be. Darvin Adams, Bailey, Wolitarsky and even Lawler were good aggressive blockers. Clercius is good, but IMO the others are a step back. As mentioned, maybe they need to learn to hold a bit more without getting called.
As far as making the first man miss, that's also an issue. Demski was the main guy I saw Thursday who made a few miss and generated YAC. Wheatfall has potential.
Clercius is usually the outside receiver so he isn't as effective positioned to help out blocking, I don't really want to see Schoen doing any of that heavy inside blocking either, although he probably would try.
Quote from: Pete on June 28, 2025, 02:54:54 PMAnother issue is we don't have recievers/ backs that make that first guy miss, ie Philpot, our rbd tend to be north south
Ya, but as OP noted, when the ball arrives the D is usually already at the REC to tackle him before he takes even 2 steps. That's timing, scheme and blocking issues.
We also don't seem to catch D's off-kilter. They always sniff the screens out. At least a couple should catch them off guard!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 28, 2025, 10:30:14 PMClercius is usually the outside receiver so he isn't as effective positioned to help out blocking, I don't really want to see Schoen doing any of that heavy inside blocking either, although he probably would try.
I lot of these short passes we're talking about are screens. Demski (for example) running along the line of scrimmage towards the outside and Clercius running back trying to block the DB so Demski can run free, but we've had trouble breaking through that first later of the D leading to many 1-2 yard gains.
And people are saying we're using the short passes as a running gaem, but we wouldn't be happy if our back was averaging 1-2 yards a carry either ( which was incidentally what Patterson was averaging through 3 quarters. He only had 7 yards at the start of the 4th).