2025 Free Agency signings (beginning February 11 at 12 noon ET, by other CFL teams can be discussed here. For reference the CFL Free Agency site is here. https://www.cfl.ca/fa25/
Tomorrow (February 11th) is a big 2025 day in the CFL with several of top ranked players moving to other teams. Here is a pre-amble to some of the expected moves.
https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/06/5-storylines-to-watch-in-free-agency/
Argos re-sign RB Carey: https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/11/argos-re-sign-running-back-kadeem-carey/
BC Lions sign QB Jeremiah Masoli
https://www.bclions.com/2025/02/11/lions-sign-veteran-quarterback-jeremiah-masoli-to-one-year-deal/ (https://www.bclions.com/2025/02/11/lions-sign-veteran-quarterback-jeremiah-masoli-to-one-year-deal/)
Lions also sign Micah Awe for the 3rd time (2 year deal)
https://www.bclions.com/2025/02/11/all-star-linebacker-micah-awe-returns-to-lions/ (https://www.bclions.com/2025/02/11/all-star-linebacker-micah-awe-returns-to-lions/)
Also, per Farhan
Several Edmonton deals are contingent on passing a physical, to take place Wednesday morning.
Quote from: Stats Junkie on February 11, 2025, 05:55:55 PMBC Lions sign QB Jeremiah Masoli
https://www.bclions.com/2025/02/11/lions-sign-veteran-quarterback-jeremiah-masoli-to-one-year-deal/ (https://www.bclions.com/2025/02/11/lions-sign-veteran-quarterback-jeremiah-masoli-to-one-year-deal/)
There you go, Lions move to fix up their QB room.
Argos sign WR Mayala, DB Bratton, DL Haba: https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/11/argos-sign-hergy-mayala-darrius-bratton-celestin-haba/
Stampeders sign DB Webb: https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/11/stamps-sign-defensive-back-damon-webb/
Lions sign OL Foucault: https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/11/lions-add-national-ol-david-foucault/
I've lost track which of these announcements were the result of tampering period decisions. Either way, there are a lot of players changing teams this off season.
I thought we'd make a big splash than we have. Even before finding out there was $400K more in the SMS, we seemed to have money left after the departures.
Riders sign OL Philippe Gagnon.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/11/official-saskatchewan-roughriders-sign-canadian-ol-philippe-gagnon/
Riders sign QB Tommy Stevens.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/11/official-saskatchewan-roughriders-sign-qb-tommy-stevens/
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 11, 2025, 07:46:05 PMI've lost track which of these announcements were the result of tampering period decisions. Either way, there are a lot of players changing teams this off season.
I thought we'd make a big splash than we have. Even before finding out there was $400K more in the SMS, we seemed to have money left after the departures.
Yah, I think Walters is pretty much done making major moves, maybe make a few minor adjustments like below.
Winnipeg Blue Bombers
@Wpg_BlueBombers
We have signed former Al Canadian defensive lineman Brock Gowanlock to a one-year contract.
Alouettes sign DL Oakman: https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/11/als-sign-defensive-lineman-shawn-oakman/
Darn Oakman would have been sweet here.
Argos re-sign QB Dukes: https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/11/argos-re-sign-quarterback-cameron-dukes/
B.C. Lions' general manager Ryan Rigmaiden told the media today that his team is moving on from American defensive back T.J. Lee and Canadian offensive lineman Sukh Chungh in free agency. Lee was the longest-tenured player on the team with 11 years of service, while Chungh is a local product from Port Coquitlam.
Quote from: Ridermania on February 12, 2025, 12:24:29 AMB.C. Lions' general manager Ryan Rigmaiden told the media today that his team is moving on from American defensive back T.J. Lee and Canadian offensive lineman Sukh Chungh in free agency. Lee was the longest-tenured player on the team with 11 years of service, while Chungh is a local product from Port Coquitlam.
Both have priced themselves out of the BC salary cap. Wonder how long Chungh sits in FA and whether his price tag drops. He's a very decent OL, but there's only so many dollars to go around.
Stamps release D. Houston due to domestic abuse charges pending in the USA.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 12, 2025, 03:59:22 PMStamps release D. Houston due to domestic abuse charges pending in the USA.
That likely means he's cooked. Oof.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 12, 2025, 04:15:05 PMThat likely means he's cooked. Oof.
I was reading the CFL has some kind of remedial program for domestic abusers, if he goes through that program I wouldn't be surprised if some team picks him up. Plenty of CFL players with past criminal records, so he may not be done yet.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 12, 2025, 03:59:22 PMStamps release D. Houston due to domestic abuse charges pending in the USA.
How long until he wears Green?
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 12, 2025, 04:27:53 PMI was reading the CFL has some kind of remedial program for domestic abusers, if he goes through that program I wouldn't be surprised if some team picks him up. Plenty of CFL players with past criminal records, so he may not be done yet.
It'll depend on how the legal aspect plays out, IMO. Look at how things went for Chad Kelly; he wasn't even charged and missed half a season.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 12, 2025, 05:08:57 PMIt'll depend on how the legal aspect plays out, IMO. Look at how things went for Chad Kelly; he wasn't even charged and missed half a season.
Not sure if there are varying levels of discipline based on repeat offenders... I don't think Houston makes it over the border, though, if the charges hold and he is convicted.
Might see him in the USFL now that he's been cut loose.
Riders sign CDN OL Sean McEwan.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/12/saskatchewan-roughriders-sign-three-time-all-cfl-centre-sean-mcewen/
Quote from: theaardvark on February 12, 2025, 05:24:18 PMNot sure if there are varying levels of discipline based on repeat offenders... I don't think Houston makes it over the border, though, if the charges hold and he is convicted.
Might see him in the USFL now that he's been cut loose.
I'm inclined to agree. If he's convicted, his career up here is probably toast. Not sure any team wants to deal with that headache, both in terms of the optics and the paperwork involved.
Quote from: Ridermania on February 12, 2025, 05:36:51 PMRiders sign CDN OL Sean McEwan.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/12/saskatchewan-roughriders-sign-three-time-all-cfl-centre-sean-mcewen/
Dang, I was hoping we'd pick this guy up!!
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 12, 2025, 03:59:22 PMStamps release D. Houston due to domestic abuse charges pending in the USA.
It s unfortunate this happened and sad really. I hope he gets the help he needs to get his life straightened out and back on track
Quote from: Ridermania on February 12, 2025, 05:36:51 PMRiders sign CDN OL Sean McEwan.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/12/saskatchewan-roughriders-sign-three-time-all-cfl-centre-sean-mcewen/
I don't even want to guess at what the Riders paid him... but they need him, for sure. With what they are paying Yoshi, that some high priced beef on their table.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 12, 2025, 05:58:35 PMI don't even want to guess at what the Riders paid him... but they need him, for sure. With what they are paying Yoshi, that some high priced beef on their table.
I sure hope Yoshi took his recovery seriously, if he wants to continue playing a few more years he has to lose some weight.
O'Day and overpaying for aging O-linemen: name a more iconic duo.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 12, 2025, 04:58:50 PMHow long until he wears Green?
Oooof! <slinks off without going there...>
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 12, 2025, 05:08:57 PMIt'll depend on how the legal aspect plays out, IMO. Look at how things went for Chad Kelly; he wasn't even charged and missed half a season.
That was a top-3 GC-caliber QB. No one will go to the lengths they went through for Kelly just for "only a DB".
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 13, 2025, 05:33:10 AMThat was a top-3 GC-caliber QB. No one will go to the lengths they went through for Kelly just for "only a DB".
I think you're misunderstanding here. I'm referring to the fact Houston has actual criminal misdemeanor charges now, which significantly changes the complexion of his admissibility into this country. It has little to nothing to do with the position he plays on the field.
And if he's convicted, that would only make it more challenging for him to try and continue his CFL career.
Im curious as to what offseason moves you guys consider the worst/weirdest this year - mine are
Calgary releasing Rose
Calgary not resigning Awe
Calgary not signing a top wider receiver
Hamilton signing Josh Johnson
Hamilton signing Lawler at the highest nonqb salary and letting Beard go to Edmonton
Toronto trading away Orimolade and letting their entire dl leave
Ottawa signing Schlitz on top of Brown/Crum/Adams
Ottawa signing Amari Henderson to replace Webb/Dandridge
Winnipeg not resigning either of Haba and Garbutt
Winnipeg not signing an OLine (cage for example would been an upgrade from Lofton and hedge Bryant next year or a cdn lineman in a year a lot of good ones available.)
Two pretty big fish still out there: Steven Dunbar (https://www.cfl.ca/players/steven-dunbar-jr/165081/) and Bryan Cox (https://www.cfl.ca/players/bryan-cox-jr/163540/)
TiCats sign D. Amos. Was that where he had a deal during tampering period and backed out? I've lost track of that.
Quote from: Pete on February 13, 2025, 04:59:59 PMIm curious as to what offseason moves you guys consider the worst/weirdest this year - mine are
Calgary releasing Rose
Calgary not resigning Awe
Calgary not signing a top wider receiver
Hamilton signing Josh Johnson
Hamilton signing Lawler at the highest nonqb salary and letting Beard go to Edmonton
Toronto trading away Orimolade and letting their entire dl leave
BC not resigning Couture
Ottawa signing Schlitz on top of Brown/Crum/Adams
Ottawa signing Amari Henderson to replace Webb/Dandridge
Winnipeg not resigning either of Haba and Garbutt
Winnipeg not signing an OLine (cage for example would been an upgrade from Lofton and hedge Bryant next year or a cdn lineman in a year a lot of good ones available.)
BC signed Couture, they didn't sign Chungh.
Quote from: Pete on February 13, 2025, 04:59:59 PMIm curious as to what offseason moves you guys consider the worst/weirdest this year - mine are
Calgary releasing Rose
Calgary not resigning Awe
Calgary not signing a top wider receiver
Hamilton signing Josh Johnson
Hamilton signing Lawler at the highest nonqb salary and letting Beard go to Edmonton
Toronto trading away Orimolade and letting their entire dl leave
BC not resigning Couture
Ottawa signing Schlitz on top of Brown/Crum/Adams
Ottawa signing Amari Henderson to replace Webb/Dandridge
Winnipeg not resigning either of Haba and Garbutt
Winnipeg not signing an OLine (cage for example would been an upgrade from Lofton and hedge Bryant next year or a cdn lineman in a year a lot of good ones available.)
I thought BC extended Couture, but anyways. I am surprised we didn't get an OL capable of backing up Bryant if he has another health relapse. If Bryant or Neufeld goes down to injury, we have a very green O line and that ain't good.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 13, 2025, 05:39:54 PMTiCats sign D. Amos. Was that where he had a deal during tampering period and backed out? I've lost track of that.
No, wasn't him.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 13, 2025, 05:39:54 PMTiCats sign D. Amos. Was that where he had a deal during tampering period and backed out? I've lost track of that.
that was Tre Roberson
Quote from: Pete on February 13, 2025, 06:26:54 PMthat was Tre Roberson
Ah yes. Still not sure why the fell through.
Dunbar taken by the Elks.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 13, 2025, 05:18:23 PMTwo pretty big fish still out there: Steven Dunbar (https://www.cfl.ca/players/steven-dunbar-jr/165081/) and Bryan Cox (https://www.cfl.ca/players/bryan-cox-jr/163540/)
Dunbar went to the Stamps.
Cox went to the Argos.
Stamps should have signed Dunbar, their recieving core needs help and they have underwhelmed in free agency as a whole
Good on the Elks, he'll help them out for sure. What the heck is Calgary doing, aside from VAJ, they have been pretty quiet and they need help!!
Tre and Tyrell Ford interview.
Quote from: Pete on February 13, 2025, 04:59:59 PMIm curious as to what offseason moves you guys consider the worst/weirdest this year - mine are
Winnipeg not signing an OLine (cage for example would been an upgrade from Lofton and hedge Bryant next year or a cdn lineman in a year a lot of good ones available.)
WPG never fills an OG spot in FA. We always dev from within from DPs. Wasn't the last pickup of a non-draft OG Neufeld and Bond? That's like 2 in nearly 10 years.
The surprise to me is Cody Fajardo. Dude won the GC, then won the East, and gets dumped like garbage to be a backup on a garbage team. Ya, I'm not a Cody fan, but I thought he deserved better than that.
MTL faced with the "Zach or Dru" choice and they chose Dru (Alexander), unlike our choice. We'll see if it turns out to be the right move. It'll be pretty hilarious if Alexander crashes & burns! A MTL/WPG GC where we beat Alexander would be a great way to end '25.
DL Sayles extended in Steeltown: https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/14/ticats-extend-defensive-lineman-casey-sayles-through-2026/
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 14, 2025, 06:03:13 AMWPG never fills an OG spot in FA. We always dev from within from DPs. Wasn't the last pickup of a non-draft OG Neufeld and Bond? That's like 2 in nearly 10 years.
The surprise to me is Cody Fajardo. Dude won the GC, then won the East, and gets dumped like garbage to be a backup on a garbage team. Ya, I'm not a Cody fan, but I thought he deserved better than that.
MTL faced with the "Zach or Dru" choice and they chose Dru (Alexander), unlike our choice. We'll see if it turns out to be the right move. It'll be pretty hilarious if Alexander crashes & burns! A MTL/WPG GC where we beat Alexander would be a great way to end '25.
Ya, I don't get the whole Fajardo dump thing. He's better than Alexander, and the Als are going to find out the hard way, and then they'll have to resort to MBT the interception machine. I also think Ford will struggle or get injured, and Fajardo will come in and save their bacon, just like he did in Montreal. Win them a Grey Cup and then get punted!! Montreal will get what they deserve on this one.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 14, 2025, 04:27:39 PMDL Sayles extended in Steeltown: https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/14/ticats-extend-defensive-lineman-casey-sayles-through-2026/
This is a guy the Bombers should have spent money on. Super durable and very consistent play. Avg. 37 DTs and 6 sacks per year.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 14, 2025, 06:55:29 PMThis is a guy the Bombers should have spent money on. Super durable and very consistent play. Avg. 37 DTs and 6 sacks per year.
Betting on Adams and Woods.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 14, 2025, 06:03:13 AMThe surprise to me is Cody Fajardo. Dude won the GC, then won the East, and gets dumped like garbage to be a backup on a garbage team. Ya, I'm not a Cody fan, but I thought he deserved better than that.
My theory is Danny thinks he is the most important cog.
Yeah they treated Cody badly, hope it costs them.
Quote from: Jesse on February 14, 2025, 06:59:26 PMBetting on Adams and Woods.
I like both of them. Let's hope one or both step up this season.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 14, 2025, 07:56:15 PMI like both of them. Let's hope one or both step up this season.
They better cause right now we have
0 new import dts signed and only 2 rookie de's
Quote from: Pete on February 14, 2025, 01:31:06 AMStamps should have signed Dunbar, their receiving core needs help and they have underwhelmed in free agency as a whole
They added Tevin Jones and Dominique Rhymes they should do ok beside Reggie Begelton as long as all 3 stay healthy. Adams likes the bigger targets.
Lucky has retired.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/14/former-all-star-cfl-receiver-lucky-whitehead-retires-from-pro-football/
Quote from: Pigskin on February 14, 2025, 06:55:29 PMThis is a guy the Bombers should have spent money on. Super durable and very consistent play. Avg. 37 DTs and 6 sacks per year.
Yeah, he is missed, but almost $200k for an int DT? You can bet that price hasn't come down either...
Quote from: Ridermania on February 14, 2025, 10:42:06 PMLucky has retired.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/14/former-all-star-cfl-receiver-lucky-whitehead-retires-from-pro-football/
He was good while he lasted before his expiration date...
Quote from: dd on February 14, 2025, 05:42:32 PMYa, I don't get the whole Fajardo dump thing. He's better than Alexander, and the Als are going to find out the hard way, and then they'll have to resort to MBT the interception machine. I also think Ford will struggle or get injured, and Fajardo will come in and save their bacon, just like he did in Montreal. Win them a Grey Cup and then get punted!! Montreal will get what they deserve on this one.
My mean streak dictates that I wish bad things upon MTL as well. That said, I think MTL made the right choice in terms of securing the next league top-3 QB: Alexander. If any new guy in the last 3 seasons was clearly the real deal, it's him. Even more so than Dru.
WFC faced the same choice in FA24 and we let Dru walk to stick with the "old guy". That decision hasn't gone too bad, and I like the loyalty we demonstrated.
Sucks for Cody. Maybe he should have signed with a GM who has some loyalty!
(If I could have any QB today and the next 3 seasons for normal QB money, and Zach wasn't an option, I'd take Alexander without hesitation.)
Quote from: dd on February 14, 2025, 05:42:32 PMYa, I don't get the whole Fajardo dump thing. He's better than Alexander, and the Als are going to find out the hard way, and then they'll have to resort to MBT the interception machine. I also think Ford will struggle or get injured, and Fajardo will come in and save their bacon, just like he did in Montreal. Win them a Grey Cup and then get punted!! Montreal will get what they deserve on this one.
Ford isn't going to struggle. They improved the Oline and receiving corps. Plus his twin brother being an Elk will help him grow his game.
Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on February 15, 2025, 04:48:50 PMFord isn't going to struggle. They improved the Oline and receiving corps. Plus his twin brother being an Elk will help him grow his game.
[/b]
lol. how?
G. Lewis is just getting $233K for 2025? The Bombers weren't in the mix trying to land him? Hmmmm.
Quote from: Jesse on February 15, 2025, 06:58:49 PM[/b]
lol. how?
Ya, I know. DB Ford is going to do just fine, Qb Ford will struggle, and if they start to lose many games in a row, with a rookie HC, the pressure will be there to bring in Fajardo off the bench, i can see it happening before it happens. Same in Montreal. How many times have we seen the next greatest thing at Qb crash and burn--Jenning, Franklin, Dane Evans, Caleb Evans, Nick Arbuckle, etc
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 15, 2025, 08:25:35 PMG. Lewis is just getting $233K for 2025? The Bombers weren't in the mix trying to land him? Hmmmm.
No thanks, don't like him, wouldn't want him.
Quote from: Jesse on February 15, 2025, 06:58:49 PM[/b]
lol. how?
Beard at centre, allowing Korte to move to RG, McKellar at LG. Plus Julien-Grant in the recieving corps, to go along with Gittens.
Learn football please.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 15, 2025, 08:25:35 PMG. Lewis is just getting $233K for 2025? The Bombers weren't in the mix trying to land him? Hmmmm.
I would have done that in a heartbeat.
Quote from: Jesse on February 16, 2025, 01:28:26 AMI would have done that in a heartbeat.
Not me, too expensive imo, but I can see the why you would have, impressive player with some good stats. If he gets 1000 yards reasonable value.
Quote from: Blueforlife on February 16, 2025, 01:46:46 AMNot me, too expensive imo, but I can see the why you would have, impressive player with some good stats. If he gets 1000 yards reasonable value.
How can you reasonably say that 235 is too expensive when you consistently say Lawler is "worth every penny" when we were paying him 275+
Lewis is a bargain at $235 and would have filled lawyers shoes. Maybe Walter's thinks mitchel will replace lawyer I m surprised we didn't go after him harder
Quote from: Jesse on February 16, 2025, 02:16:39 AMHow can you reasonably say that 235 is too expensive when you consistently say Lawler is "worth every penny" when we were paying him 275+
I am entitled to my opinion and you are yours. I believe Lawler earned his paycheck last year and I would have been happy to have him back at under 250k. We rarely agree on anything on here and that's ok. We can value and like different players based on our own opinions and preferences. Lawler's big catch radius, ability catch game changing deep balls and amazing physical talents makes him more valuable in my opinion. Like I said I can see why you liked Lewis. Let's leave it at that.
So Lawler earned his $275+ paycheque but you'd only want him back at under $250, that makes zero sense. So last year he was worth the big bucks, but not this year???
Quote from: dd on February 16, 2025, 03:50:56 AMSo Lawler earned his $275+ paycheque but you'd only want him back at under $250, that makes zero sense. So last year he was worth the big bucks, but not this year???
The price for receivers changed. I believe he earned his pay last year as he was very good for us but got hurt. I don't like over paying for receivers and I personally would spend more on the OL and DL as the game is won the line of scrimmage. I would also spend on a DB to replace Ford. I think receivers got paid too much last year but have to pay the market rate. Market changed a little. 250 is big bucks imo for any receiver. 275 too much especially when we have to pay other stars a pretty penny. A year older and coming off a season where he suffered a major injury has a small influence on how much I would have paid him. That's my opinion and you are entitled to yours. We have found some great talent at receiver over the years and I like our moves this year to find some few faces at decent prices.
I like how Walters approaches signings and how he prioritizes players. Doesn't overpay, is patient and also knows we scout well and can find cheap fresh young talent in camp.
I really wanted Lawler back but he went to the highest bidder and that happens.
Receivers are important but getting good ones that stay healthy are also just as important.
Quote from: BLUEBOMBER on February 16, 2025, 04:09:17 AMReceivers are important but getting good ones that stay healthy are also just as important.
Agree with that as well.
Quote from: Blueforlife on February 16, 2025, 03:31:59 AMI am entitled to my opinion and you are yours. I believe Lawler earned his paycheck last year and I would have been happy to have him back at under 250k. We rarely agree on anything on here and that's ok. We can value and like different players based on our own opinions and preferences. Lawler's big catch radius, ability catch game changing deep balls and amazing physical talents makes him more valuable in my opinion. Like I said I can see why you liked Lewis. Let's leave it at that.
Opinions are based in facts. Lewis had a much better season that Lawler. He played all 18 games and had 6 more TD's than Lawler. In 2024 he was the highest paid receiver in the CFL IIRC.
Lawller missed 20 games in the last 3 seasons. Lewis missed 7.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 16, 2025, 01:01:58 PMOpinions are based in facts. Lewis had a much better season that Lawler. He played all 18 games and had 6 more TD's than Lawler. In 2024 he was the highest paid receiver in the CFL IIRC.
Lawller missed 20 games in the last 3 seasons. Lewis missed 7.
How each person forms an opinion is different, your approach above is based on games played and yardage. Others might bring in other factors or facts.
I stand by my opinion. We all have one. Yes facts that you presented above play a role but we all have our own preferences for who we would like to sign at what price. Did you ready my post above how I agreed that the health of a receiver is important. I wasn't comparing the two, others brought that up. I commented on the cost of Lewis and had previously stated that I believe that Lawler earned his paycheck in a previous season. This year is different as the market changed. I love Lawler and really like Lewis. Based on their asking prices I can see why management passed on both. Time will tell if these players earn their salaries this year, history will tell us that's likely. I am happy with the direction we went and I would have been happy to sign Lawler but can't break the bank as I believe we need to spend money on our OL, DL, DB. I believe provided why believe Lawler earned his money last year based on the facts about his game play. I provided my take and others provided theirs, we can move on please. I believe there is room on here for everyone's opinion. Allowing space for that is important and how they incorporate facts into that. I value your contributions and knowledge to the forum, I would appreciate it if you and others did the same for me.
I was well aware the Lawler was hurt a lot and didn't produce the yardage that Lewis did.
Earlier in the off-season I would have broke the bank on Kenny but now we lost some important pieces, I am happy we didn't. Gotta sore up the roster imo in the trenches and back end defense.
You are welcome to your opinion, but if it's not based in fact, it's not worth anything. It's certainly not equal to fact based opinions no matter how much you believe it.
Quote from: Blueforlife on February 16, 2025, 01:28:11 PMHow each person forms an opinion is different, your approach above is based on games played and yardage. Others might bring in other factors or facts.
I stand by my opinion. We all have one. Yes facts that you presented above play a role but we all have our own preferences for who we would like to sign at what price. Did you ready my post above how I agreed that the health of a receiver is important. I wasn't comparing the two, others brought that up. I commented on the cost of Lewis and had previously stated that I believe that Lawler earned his paycheck in a previous season. This year is different as the market changed. I love Lawler and really like Lewis. Based on their asking prices I can see why management passed on both. Time will tell if these players earn their salaries this year, history will tell us that's likely. I am happy with the direction we went and I would have been happy to sign Lawler but can't break the bank as I believe we need to spend money on our OL, DL, DB. I believe provided why believe Lawler earned his money last year based on the facts about his game play. I provided my take and others provided theirs, we can move on please. I believe there is room on here for everyone's opinion. Allowing space for that is important and how they incorporate facts into that. I value your contributions and knowledge to the forum, I would appreciate it if you and others did the same for me.
I was well aware the Lawler was hurt a lot and didn't produce the yardage that Lewis did.
Earlier in the off-season I would have broke the bank on Kenny but now we lost some important pieces, I am happy we didn't. Gotta sore up the roster imo in the trenches and back end defense.
Lewis has played more games, had more passes thrown to him, caught more and has had more TD's. He's had a longer and better career.
Preference has nothing to do with it. In fact I'd say preference is an emotional response and not a subjective response.
Per today's comments on CFL.CA, Lawler is the highest paid non QB in the CFL. Lewis sounds like a bargain compared to Lawler's money. Considering the QB's that each will have throwing to these two receivers, It's fair to think the Lewis/ Brown combination will have a better year. Assuming everyone stays healthy.
Quote from: TBURGESS on February 16, 2025, 02:40:12 PMYou are welcome to your opinion, but if it's not based in fact, it's not worth anything. It's certainly not equal to fact based opinions no matter how much you believe it.
Exactly!!!
Lewis and Lawler are game changers, no doubt about it. They can turn momentum around on a dime, that is a fact.
I don't think MOS or WFC is a team that thrives on the big play. We are a lunch bucket team, a dink and dunk team, a run heavy team.
Would a Lewis or Lawler be good to have? Any team would love them. But do we need them? I think we will find our own way to win games without them...
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 16, 2025, 02:48:57 PMLewis has played more games, had more passes thrown to him, caught more and has had more TD's. He's had a longer and better career.
Preference has nothing to do with it. In fact I'd say preference is an emotional response and not a subjective response.
Per today's comments on CFL.CA, Lawler is the highest paid non QB in the CFL. Lewis sounds like a bargain compared to Lawler's money. Considering the QB's that each will have throwing to these two receivers, It's fair to think the Lewis/ Brown combination will have a better year. Assuming everyone stays healthy.
Pretty happy they're moving back towards the win by committee approach at receiver rather than pay the star big and put the world on his shoulders. Mainly because talented receivers the caliber of Reggie White and Sterns are almost always available and can be replaced at the drop of the hat at a reasonable cost if injured or not working out, no muss no fuss. Talented vet. receivers like Kyran Moore or Lucky Whitehead are always looking for the chance to extend their careers one more year.
Schoen and Demski are the only 2 receivers they have that can't be replaced easily without a serious drop off. Key to the receiver by committee approach is spreading the ball around and not overly focusing on one or two targets to carry the load. Many QB's are good at this but Zach hasn't done this well for a number of years, he tends to pick a couple of favourites every game and mostly focuses on them.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 16, 2025, 04:43:32 PMPretty happy they're moving back towards the win by committee approach at receiver rather than pay the star big and put the world on his shoulders. Mainly because talented receivers the caliber of Reggie White and Sterns are almost always available and can be replaced at the drop of the hat at a reasonable cost if injured or not working out, no muss no fuss. Talented receivers like Kyran Moore or Lucky Whitehead are always looking for the chance to extend their careers one more year.
Schoen and Demski are the only 2 receivers they have that can't be replaced easily without a serious drop off. Key to the receiver by committee approach is spreading the ball around and not overly focusing on one or two targets to carry the load. Many QB's are good at this but Zach hasn't done this well for a number of years, he tends to pick a couple of favourites every game and mostly focuses on them.
I don't entirely disagree with that concept. I do question where we spent the money we saved on offence. In theory we expected a bigger signing on defence as the trade off.
It's not clear we achieved that or even in fact spent as much SMS in 2025 as in 2024?
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 16, 2025, 04:51:13 PMI don't entirely disagree with that concept. I do question where we spent the money we saved on offence. In theory we expected a bigger signing on defence as the trade off.
It's not clear we achieved that or even in fact spent as much SMS in 2025 as in 2024?
I think we signed 8 FA's with CFL experience that will be for greater than CFL minimums.
Then Tony Jones, Holm, Lofton probably got decent raises over their last contract with us.
It all adds up. Depth over a couple high end contracts.
Quote from: Jesse on February 16, 2025, 05:57:40 PMI think we signed 8 FA's with CFL experience that will be for greater than CFL minimums.
Then Tony Jones, Holm, Lofton probably got decent raises over their last contract with us.
It all adds up. Depth over a couple high end contracts.
Holm took a cut and Lofton and Jones received bumps, but haven't established themselves as as anything beyond average positional players yet, so no big raises. I wouldn't be surprised if they had to pay Logan around $120-130k to leave Calgary, he's an attractive asset any team could use.
Quote from: DM83 on February 16, 2025, 05:18:29 PMYup,
Whaat the brain trust is doing or not doing sucks. This will be the last season of aging vets and the brain trust don't appear to be putting together a team for a grey cup winning season for us.
What are you talking about?
Every year we lose vets, and every TC we bring in loads of talent to try and replace them. And when they can't, they dabble in FA.
What they are or are not doing had worked for 5 consecutive GC appearances. If this method had yielded 5 years of missed playoffs, have at it. But this method really seems successful.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 16, 2025, 02:48:57 PMLewis has played more games, had more passes thrown to him, caught more and has had more TD's. He's had a longer and better career.
Preference has nothing to do with it. In fact I'd say preference is an emotional response and not a subjective response.
Per today's comments on CFL.CA, Lawler is the highest paid non QB in the CFL. Lewis sounds like a bargain compared to Lawler's money. Considering the QB's that each will have throwing to these two receivers, It's fair to think the Lewis/ Brown combination will have a better year. Assuming everyone stays healthy.
Preference has a lot to do with it. Nobody here is right or wrong, just fans commenting on a pro ball club and putting our two cents in. I'll continue to do that. There is a place here for everyone's input, fact based, preference based, random opinions etc. The benefit of this forum is that it's inclusive and diverse.
We are allowed to post our things that include emotions. I have provided my opinion based on how I value Kenny and Lewis based on a number of factors, including personal preference, facts, costs and my familiarity of their game and what they bring as a football players.
Your posting style and how you approach what you bring to the forum is not the only way to contribute here. You bring a wealth of experience and have some rock solid ideas and opinions. Allowing space to for others to post how they like is equally important imo.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 16, 2025, 04:43:32 PMPretty happy they're moving back towards the win by committee approach at receiver rather than pay the star big and put the world on his shoulders. Mainly because talented receivers the caliber of Reggie White and Sterns are almost always available and can be replaced at the drop of the hat at a reasonable cost if injured or not working out, no muss no fuss. Talented vet. receivers like Kyran Moore or Lucky Whitehead are always looking for the chance to extend their careers one more year.
Schoen and Demski are the only 2 receivers they have that can't be replaced easily without a serious drop off. Key to the receiver by committee approach is spreading the ball around and not overly focusing on one or two targets to carry the load. Many QB's are good at this but Zach hasn't done this well for a number of years, he tends to pick a couple of favourites every game and mostly focuses on them.
Sums up my thoughts really well, I also like our approach, attack our offense by committee with some value picks. Might pay off as allows us to be a swiss army knife. Might hurt a bit if we don't find the knock out punch, big play guy. I am very confident in our approach but it also depends on the guys we signed to be productive and healthy and also to find a couple new faces in camp. Nice to see folks with a common thought process, very refreshing reading your comments and we are seeing thinks from a similar lens.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 16, 2025, 04:51:13 PMI don't entirely disagree with that concept. I do question where we spent the money we saved on offence. In theory we expected a bigger signing on defence as the trade off.
It's not clear we achieved that or even in fact spent as much SMS in 2025 as in 2024?
Exactly what I want, save in one area a spend on another. I want $ put on the OL, DL and a stud DB (also willing to see what camp brings or more value signing)
Quote from: TBURGESS on February 16, 2025, 02:40:12 PMYou are welcome to your opinion, but if it's not based in fact, it's not worth anything. It's certainly not equal to fact based opinions no matter how much you believe it.
You haven't allowed space for my opinion, the tone of your post and previous ones indicate that. My posts are based on a variety of things generally, facts, my experience watching ball for decades, my knowledge of the leagues players, coaching and management and understanding of the CFL. We are allowed to have opinions on there, there is no right or wrong on many issues, it's a complex debate. I do value facts and have routinely used them at times to make my point and will continue to do so. In this case I believe the fact that these two receivers priced themselves out of the Bombers play. The fact is Walters has often used a conservative approach to signing players, often not breaking the bank early in free agency but rather relying on drafting, camp and other ways to find talent. Of course he also has done a great job signing key stars that will continue to contribute to the ball club.
It's clear you don't value what I post and I encourage you and others that feel this way to ignore my contributions as it really bring little value to this place imo.
Quote from: dd on February 16, 2025, 03:44:10 PMExactly!!!
Everyone is entitled to post on this forum, they way they please, as long as they follow the rules. You often post many things that are based on your opinion, not facts. I believe most people do from time to time and that's fine. It's allowed and helps bring balance to the forum as it bring diversity in the content provided. No right or wrong here just a good debate about all things CFL imo.
Quote from: DM83 on February 16, 2025, 05:18:29 PMYup,
Whaat the brain trust is doing or not doing sucks. This will be the last season of aging vets and the brain trust don't appear to be putting together a team for a grey cup winning season for us.
I disagree with everything said here. We are in a state of change this year. Lots of vets gone, lots retained and lot of new faces. Also too early to know what we have. I don't see anything sucking at the moment in Bomberville, management is pretty consistent in their approach and it's done nothing but bring success and I see that continuing. Yes some vets this year will likely retire but I believe you are overstating this a wee bit.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 16, 2025, 06:41:31 PMWhat are you talking about?
Every year we lose vets, and every TC we bring in loads of talent to try and replace them. And when they can't, they dabble in FA.
What they are or are not doing had worked for 5 consecutive GC appearances. If this method had yielded 5 years of missed playoffs, have at it. But this method really seems successful.
Agree all. Some have a hard time seeing the forest through the trees. While we might not all agree on where we are headed, it's hard in my mind to question the system that like you said have brought nothing short of amazing and a mini dynasty to boot! Go blue, patience will pay off, I sure hope anyway. Bomber brass isn't done yet building this club, let's wait till the flowers grow before we over analyze what this club is. I actually won't judge them too much until labour day. We have lost a few key cogs but hopefully we can find success with who we signed, a few surprises in camp and a couple more strategic players to target in FA.
The way some folks are speaking about our coaches and players, its almost like they forgot our success and have already written this year off. There is room on here for that opinion but I have certainly not seen it that way for a very long time. I have been so happy with what MOS developed here, what Hall created and how management has brought so much stability. All rooted in a great QB, best running game in the league for a long time and a killer D. Change is in the air in Bomberland, I think we are on the tail end of this great run but I would like it to run another decade and there is possibility of that happening as the culture we created and consistency in management has laid an strong foundation. I expect an average O that will be great at the end of the season, an rock solid defense as long as our DL an DB depth improves and some good coaching that will only improve over time. I expect a slow start and strong finish again. My biggest concern is the OL, we live and die with that. Protect Zach and run the ball well and everything else should fall in place. Also as always have strong CDN depth, that look a slight hit this season thus far.
Thanks for the balance you have brought to the debate here.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 16, 2025, 04:37:58 PMLewis and Lawler are game changers, no doubt about it. They can turn momentum around on a dime, that is a fact.
I don't think MOS or WFC is a team that thrives on the big play. We are a lunch bucket team, a dink and dunk team, a run heavy team.
Would a Lewis or Lawler be good to have? Any team would love them. But do we need them? I think we will find our own way to win games without them...
agree all, while I hate to admit it, yes we will move away from the big play a bit, I sure loved the bombs and runs over the years, that's harder to do unless you have top end talent at receiver and a top OL. The diversity in our offense will be key, spread the ball out, rely on the run and yes a little dink and dunk, a little more on yac, we got a few gadget guys. Still need to stretch the D but I think you might have recipe for what we might do. That said find a burner or two and that deep ball might be right back where is was last few years when it was so effective. Regardless, this team lives or dies with the run game. Pound em in the 4th quarter and win by dominating the LOS. Love seeing that and hope it can continue. Enjoyed your take.
Looks like Hervey and the Elks are spending the extra 400k fromthe cap
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/16/elks-sign-dl-brandon-barlow-after-ticats-release-prior-to-offseason-roster-bonus/
dont think i can remember a gm thats signed so many high profile free agents, their dline is going to be a force with Smith, Ceresna, Brinkman and now Barlow (all ex argos)
Quote from: Jesse on February 16, 2025, 05:57:40 PMI think we signed 8 FA's with CFL experience that will be for greater than CFL minimums.
Then Tony Jones, Holm, Lofton probably got decent raises over their last contract with us.
It all adds up. Depth over a couple high end contracts.
We lost Lawler, Woli, Dobson, Augustine, Feltmate, Ford, Bighill, Cole, Garbutt, Haba, Fox and Alexander.
I don't think the additions equal those that we lost in either net talent or SMS.
Holm, Lofton and Jones didn't get significant raises. Logan got more that Whitehead.
ya, the elks have really upgraded their D with that ferocious D line and Ford at corner. They will be a contender this year in the west for sure. Their offense may struggle under Ford's guidance, but they have a nice safety blanket in Fajardo. I think the Elks went from worst to first this off season.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 16, 2025, 09:32:51 PMWe lost Lawler, Woli, Dobson, Augustine, Feltmate, Ford, Bighill, Cole, Garbutt, Haba, Fox and Alexander.
I don't think the additions equal those that we lost in either net talent or SMS.
Holm, Lofton and Jones didn't get significant raises. Logan got more that Whitehead.
Did Augustine and Alexander sign elsewhere ??
Quote from: Pete on February 16, 2025, 09:30:55 PMLooks like Hervey and the Elks are spending the extra 400k fromthe cap
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/16/elks-sign-dl-brandon-barlow-after-ticats-release-prior-to-offseason-roster-bonus/
dont think i can remember a gm thats signed so many high profile free agents, their dline is going to be a force with Smith, Ceresna, Brinkman and now Barlow (all ex argos)
Could be the new owner whispered in Ed's ear to do what it takes to turn it around quickly. 10,000 extra fans coming out to every home game to cheer on a winning team will easily cover his fines for going over budget.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 16, 2025, 09:32:51 PMWe lost Lawler, Woli, Dobson, Augustine, Feltmate, Ford, Bighill, Cole, Garbutt, Haba, Fox and Alexander.
I don't think the additions equal those that we lost in either net talent or SMS.
Holm, Lofton and Jones didn't get significant raises. Logan got more that Whitehead.
No one you listed aside from Lawler made any more money than we're paying their replacements.
Quote from: Jesse on February 17, 2025, 12:51:21 AMNo one you listed aside from Lawler made any more money than we're paying their replacements.
Ford is 230 at least, Dobson is close to 200 as well.
Quote from: DM83 on February 17, 2025, 02:16:11 AMElks will blow it with Ford at QB. He can't read. He will run around and be a hit dog. Maybe get enuff first downs running to beat lousy teams. But he is probably the worst "starting" QB.
I mean him as a starter is a joke.
The Bombers with a lack of commitment to find a real player at guard, and an ancient offensive line and a skittish QB, won't be doing very well. Managements odd decision to not make an effort to bring in star players is disappointing. The signing of mediocre free agents, and aging players in prime positions is risky business. Coupled with an unrealistic dependence on previously uninjured players is really stupid. Zac and Brady have been amazing.....but what do we have behind them? Not re-signing Augustine is disrespectful and stupid. No realistic Backup to Zac is dumb.
Zach is not skittish imo. Bombers has lost some good ones and added some reasonable talent. More to come. OL worries me a bit. I really like Augustine. We are as deep at backup QB as we have been for years. I think we will have a decent club this year if the OL can come together and we find more talent at DT, DB and cdns.
Can't understand a lot of what you say here.
Quote from: Pete on February 17, 2025, 01:47:06 AMFord is 230 at least, Dobson is close to 200 as well.
We're talking about extra money the Bombers have as a result of these players leaving.
They make that now, but we didn't pay them anywhere close to that last season. Them leaving doesn't open up money for us.
Quote from: dd on February 16, 2025, 09:50:16 PMDid Augustine and Alexander sign elsewhere ??
They haven't signed anywhere yet.
Quote from: Jesse on February 17, 2025, 12:51:21 AMNo one you listed aside from Lawler made any more money than we're paying their replacements.
No Bomber receiver is getting $285K like Lawler did in 2024. Schoen took a cut of about $40K. Those two reductions must be over $120K less. Woli and Augustine weren't on ELC's.
I don't think any of the free agent Canadian signings are going to earn what they did. You really think Cobb will get the same as Woli?
It's too bad salaries aren't public information but in my mind I don't see where we spent the money.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 17, 2025, 01:36:12 PMNo Bomber receiver is getting $285K like Lawler did in 2024. Schoen took a cut of about $40K. Those two reductions must be over $120K less. Woli and Augustine weren't on ELC's.
I don't think any of the free agent Canadian signings are going to earn what they did. You really think Cobb will get the same as Woli?
It's too bad salaries aren't public information but in my mind I don't see where we spent the money.
I think it's less money spread across more players.
The only place where we saved money is the reduction of Lawler and Schoen.
Let's say we get 50 from Schoen and another 135 from the reduction from Lawler to Mitchell.
It's not nearly this simple of course. But that's less than 200k which would be accounted for pretty quickly.
Some people don't account for things like this, but Brady make 10k more this year than he did last year. Demski and Collaros are also in the last years of their deals and I thinks it's likely that they are also getting paid a bit more than in the first years of their deals. Holm re-signed for a bit of a raise, Lofton, Tony Jones. All need more money than last season. How much of that 200k is left?
I mentioned we signed 8 CFL vets. None of which will come in for the rookie minimum. At minimum, they'll make the 100k that Augustine and Woli were making; and in the case of Vaughters, probably a bit more.
Not to say that we shouldn't still go hunting for improvements on the roster. I still think Walters should go for broke and pay the fines if we need to. But I don't think we have spent that much less money than last year just because Lawler is gone. We've made investments.
Quote from: Jesse on February 17, 2025, 02:14:15 PMI think it's less money spread across more players.
The only place where we saved money is the reduction of Lawler and Schoen.
Let's say we get 50 from Schoen and another 135 from the reduction from Lawler to Mitchell.
It's not nearly this simple of course. But that's less than 200k which would be accounted for pretty quickly.
Some people don't account for things like this, but Brady make 10k more this year than he did last year. Demski and Collaros are also in the last years of their deals and I thinks it's likely that they are also getting paid a bit more than in the first years of their deals. Holm re-signed for a bit of a raise, Lofton, Tony Jones. All need more money than last season. How much of that 200k is left?
I mentioned we signed 8 CFL vets. None of which will come in for the rookie minimum. At minimum, they'll make the 100k that Augustine and Woli were making; and in the case of Vaughters, probably a bit more.
Not to say that we shouldn't still go hunting for improvements on the roster. I still think Walters should go for broke and pay the fines if we need to. But I don't think we have spent that much less money than last year just because Lawler is gone. We've made investments.
Tony Jones probably got something close to what Bighill was getting. Jon Jones probably equal to Cole SMS.
I understand that we signed 8 CFL vets but most were back ups replacing starters or regulars at the least. Noah Hallett is another player that the replacement might be Hagerty.
I can't prove you're incorrect that we spent the same by spreading it out over more players.
I continue to be against the idea of excessive spending and not worrying about the fines etc. Besides, at this point there is no place to spend it on additions. Potential free agent list is down to about 60 players.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 17, 2025, 02:58:54 PMTony Jones probably got something close to what Bighill was getting. Jon Jones probably equal to Cole SMS.
I understand that we signed 8 CFL vets but most were back ups replacing starters or regulars at the least. Noah Hallett is another player that the replacement might be Hagerty.
I can't prove you're incorrect that we spent the same by spreading it out over more players.
I continue to be against the idea of excessive spending and not worrying about the fines etc. Besides, at this point there is no place to spend it on additions. Potential free agent list is down to about 60 players.
No point trying to make the math work when we don't know any numbers, but Vaughters may have been offered the same as Mitchell $150k, Reggie White, Stern, Patterson and Logan $125k, everyone else they brought in probably earning union wages around $100k or less.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 17, 2025, 01:30:48 PMThey haven't signed anywhere yet.
I am hoping we sign Augustine for a NAT backup to Brady, he's good on ST and does a good job when given the opportunity to run the ball.
Also hoping we can sign Alexander and get him into TC and see where he's at with his foot speed, can he be a half back for us and we move someone else over to safety, or will he be a depth player for us in case of injury?? I don't think either one catches on with another club.
lol.
3down
The Montreal Alouettes have added three new members to their football operations staff for the 2025 season, including one with a familiar last name.
"Bianca Maciocia, the daughter of general manager Danny Maciocia, has been hired as a football operations assistant for the team.
The 25-year-old graduated from Concordia University in 2023 with a degree in human relations and organizational development,
but has been around football her entire life due to her father's 30 years of experience as a coach and executive at the professional and collegiate levels."
😂
Quote from: dd on February 17, 2025, 05:28:15 PMI am hoping we sign Augustine for a NAT backup to Brady, he's good on ST and does a good job when given the opportunity to run the ball.
Also hoping we can sign Alexander and get him into TC and see where he's at with his foot speed, can he be a half back for us and we move someone else over to safety, or will he be a depth player for us in case of injury?? I don't think either one catches on with another club.
We signed Payton Logan. No more NAT back up.
I thought they would use Logan as our primary kick and punt returner. I'd sign JA to play ST and backup Brady. Logan will play to key a role on our ST returning kicks and punts to wear him out in the backfield getting pounded.
Really excited we signed him and can't wait to see him in action. He's going to have a huge impact on our field position every change of possession.
Quote3down
The Montreal Alouettes have added three new members to their football operations staff for the 2025 season, including one with a familiar last name.
"Bianca Maciocia, the daughter of general manager Danny Maciocia, has been hired as a football operations assistant for the team.
The 25-year-old graduated from Concordia University in 2023 with a degree in human relations and organizational development,
but has been around football her entire life due to her father's 30 years of experience as a coach and executive at the professional and collegiate levels."
😂
What's so funny? I believe John Hufnagel's daughter has been involved in the Stamps org. for quite some time, and his son Cole is one of the team's American scouts. Nepotism is alive and well in the CFL.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 17, 2025, 01:36:12 PMNo Bomber receiver is getting $285K like Lawler did in 2024. Schoen took a cut of about $40K. Those two reductions must be over $120K less. Woli and Augustine weren't on ELC's.
I don't think any of the free agent Canadian signings are going to earn what they did. You really think Cobb will get the same as Woli?
It's too bad salaries aren't public information but in my mind I don't see where we spent the money.
Although salaries aren't public, 3 downation usually publishes a list of the highest 10-15 players at each position, and based on this, plus some other information, I think you can make an educated guess as to how the cap is being spent on our 46 man roster. Here's my guess:
collaros 600
brady 250
demski 225
jefferson 200
Bryant 175
schoen 175
Neufeld 160
Vaughters 160
mitchell 150
Kramdi 140
Nichols 140
Holm 130
Sergio 130
Lawson 130
Strev 120
T. Jones 120
K.Wilson 120
Logan 120
Kolo 110
Jake 110
T. Jones 110
Lofton 110
Eli 100
Bonds 100
Parker 100
Ayers 95
N. Hallet 95
Griffin 95
clercius 85
chris-Ike 85
Wallace 85
Kelly 85
cadwallader85
Gauthier 85
kornelson 80
Randall 80
Adams 80
Woods 80
Stearns 80
min salary 70
min salary 70
min salary 70
min salary 70
min salary 70
min salary 70
min salary 70
This comes to a total of 5,670,000. The cap was supposed to be 5,650,000 this year, prior to the increase being announced. This does not take into account the "marketing money" (minimum of 110,000, maximum of ?). It also does not take into account bonuses (Schoen for example), extra salary for injured players on the one game, or the practice roster, which is at least another 160,000.
When I first heard about Lawler and Bighill leaving, I thought we would have alot to spend on high end free agents. But it looks like Walters is likely spending to the cap, and probably chose to spend less on receiver, and more on giving some of our veterans like Tony Jones and Holm raises, as well as bringing in Vaughters and some linebacker/special team depth like J. Jones.
The numbers are obviously not completely accurate, and I may have guessed wrong on a few. (I suspect Adams, Woods and Stearns are a bit low if they see them as starters). But the salaries of first and second round draft picks are basically fixed at 85,000, and I'm assuming you are not going to be able to pay returning veterans the minimum of 70,000, definitely if they start, and probably also if they are important rotational players on defense, or key special teams players.
Quote from: bunker on February 18, 2025, 01:01:32 AMAlthough salaries aren't public, 3 downation usually publishes a list of the highest 10-15 players at each position, and based on this, plus some other information, I think you can make an educated guess as to how the cap is being spent on our 46 man roster. Here's my guess:
collaros 600
brady 250
demski 225
jefferson 200
Bryant 175
schoen 175
Neufeld 160
Vaughters 160
mitchell 150
Kramdi 140
Nichols 140
Holm 130
Sergio 130
Lawson 130
Strev 120
T. Jones 120
K.Wilson 120
Logan 120
Kolo 110
Jake 110
T. Jones 110
Lofton 110
Eli 100
Bonds 100
Parker 100
Ayers 95
N. Hallet 95
Griffin 95
clercius 85
chris-Ike 85
Wallace 85
Kelly 85
cadwallader85
Gauthier 85
kornelson 80
Randall 80
Adams 80
Woods 80
Stearns 80
min salary 70
min salary 70
min salary 70
min salary 70
min salary 70
min salary 70
min salary 70
This comes to a total of 5,670,000. The cap was supposed to be 5,650,000 this year, prior to the increase being announced. This does not take into account the "marketing money" (minimum of 110,000, maximum of ?). It also does not take into account bonuses (Schoen for example), extra salary for injured players on the one game, or the practice roster, which is at least another 160,000.
When I first heard about Lawler and Bighill leaving, I thought we would have alot to spend on high end free agents. But it looks like Walters is likely spending to the cap, and probably chose to spend less on receiver, and more on giving some of our veterans like Tony Jones and Holm raises, as well as bringing in Vaughters and some linebacker/special team depth like J. Jones.
The numbers are obviously not completely accurate, and I may have guessed wrong on a few. (I suspect Adams, Woods and Stearns are a bit low if they see them as starters). But the salaries of first and second round draft picks are basically fixed at 85,000, and I'm assuming you are not going to be able to pay returning veterans the minimum of 70,000, definitely if they start, and probably also if they are important rotational players on defense, or key special teams players.
A few points: Decent summary though.
1. There are a few players on the list which may not make the AR and will be replaced by ELC players.
2. A couple of players signed before the end of 2024 and may have received some 2024 bonus money.
3. Marketing money used is a question and changes the summary as mentioned.
4. I only see 2 QB's on the list?
5. The AR is only 45 players not 46 isn't it?
6. I appears you may have included Randolph on the AR and that may or may not happen.
It will be interesting to see if the Bombers went over the 2024 SMS. That won't necessarily tell if they used any excess on re-signings.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 17, 2025, 08:35:20 PM3down
What's so funny? I believe John Hufnagel's daughter has been involved in the Stamps org. for quite some time, and his son Cole is one of the team's American scouts. Nepotism is alive and well in the CFL.
How's that working out for Calgary?
the ALS are heading in the wrong direction.
Riders have signed DB Kerfalla Exume.
https://www.riderville.com/2025/02/18/riders-sign-grey-cup-champion-db-kerfalla-exume/
Quote from: Ridermania on February 18, 2025, 03:32:12 PMRiders have signed DB Kerfalla Exume.
https://www.riderville.com/2025/02/18/riders-sign-grey-cup-champion-db-kerfalla-exume/
Exume was a pretty good ST player in his first season with the Bombers. However, he has had problems with injuries and his production has really fell off.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 18, 2025, 06:25:10 PMExume was a pretty good ST player in his first season with the Bombers. However, he has had problems with injuries and his production has really fell off.
Always thought he would make a decent Safety if a team would invest time developing him, super athletic and hits hard.
Breakdown of what we pay the new players.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/19/what-the-winnipeg-blue-bombers-top-free-agents-got-paid-how-they-fit-into-the-roster/
I put in this topic rather than Bomber signings because of bunker's list on Bomber salaries already here.
Als sign former Bomber Anthony Bennett.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/18/montreal-alouettes-sign-former-first-round-cfl-draft-pick-anthony-bennett/
Quote from: Waffler on February 19, 2025, 01:11:25 PMBreakdown of what we pay the new players.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/19/what-the-winnipeg-blue-bombers-top-free-agents-got-paid-how-they-fit-into-the-roster/
I put in this topic rather than Bomber signings because of bunker's list on Bomber salaries already here.
Some surprises on that list, it appears Kyle went fishing with some cheap worms as bait.
Shea Patterson will earn $88,000 in hard money.
Reggie White Jr. and Jerreth Sterns, will both make between $85,000 and $90,000 in hard money.
Gavin Cobb, defensive lineman Brock Gowanlock, and defensive backs Josh Hagerty and Enock Makonzo — will all make between $80,000 and $85,000
Peyton Logan got a $10,000 signing bonus to come to Winnipeg on a deal worth $107,500 in hard money.
Jonathan Jones received a $15,000 signing bonus to join the Blue Bombers on a contract worth $120,500 in hard money for 2025, which is
significantly more than veteran Kyrie Wilson is set to make. As such, it seems fair to speculate that Jones is penciled in as the starter at weak-side linebacker, a spot he manned off and on over three seasons with the Toronto Argonauts.
Cody Fajardo takes over $200,000 pay cut on restructured contract with Edmonton Elks
Fajardo is slated to earn $180,000 in hard money, per sources, with $68,000 available in playtime incentives, plus an additional $14,000 in statistical, all-star, and award bonuses. The maximum total value is $262,000.
Any reason the Bombers couldn't have signed Fajardo?
TiCats sign Chris Smith. That's quite a group of ex Bombers fighting to make their team.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 19, 2025, 05:04:21 PMCody Fajardo takes over $200,000 pay cut on restructured contract with Edmonton Elks
Fajardo is slated to earn $180,000 in hard money, per sources, with $68,000 available in playtime incentives, plus an additional $14,000 in statistical, all-star, and award bonuses. The maximum total value is $262,000.
Any reason the Bombers couldn't have signed Fajardo?
There is no other reason, other than spite, but wasn't he traded to Edm?? Fajardo at this contract price is an absolute steal. Having him as our #2 would have made us a much much better and imposing team to play against. Not sure what Montreal was thinking of trading him at that price tag...best #2 in the league
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 19, 2025, 05:28:12 PMTiCats sign Chris Smith. That's quite a group of ex Bombers fighting to make their team.
Is Goveia trying to use his new gm postion to retroactively justify all his scouting recommendations? These moves really undermine Hamiltons scouting staff if they have any.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 19, 2025, 05:04:21 PMCody Fajardo takes over $200,000 pay cut on restructured contract with Edmonton Elks
Fajardo is slated to earn $180,000 in hard money, per sources, with $68,000 available in playtime incentives, plus an additional $14,000 in statistical, all-star, and award bonuses. The maximum total value is $262,000.
Any reason the Bombers couldn't have signed Fajardo?
Likely because with Fajardo sees a greater likelihood of playing time and earning the playtime bonuses, otherwise he could have not signed the restructured contract and become a free agent
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 19, 2025, 05:04:21 PMCody Fajardo takes over $200,000 pay cut on restructured contract with Edmonton Elks
Fajardo is slated to earn $180,000 in hard money, per sources, with $68,000 available in playtime incentives, plus an additional $14,000 in statistical, all-star, and award bonuses. The maximum total value is $262,000.
Any reason the Bombers couldn't have signed Fajardo?
He was traded for MBT and was not a free agent.
Quote from: Pete on February 19, 2025, 05:37:19 PMIs Goveia trying to use his new gm postion to retroactively justify all his scouting recommendations? These moves really undermine Hamiltons scouting staff if they have any.
Likely because with Fajardo sees a greater likelihood of playing time and earning the playtime bonuses, otherwise he could have not signed the restructured contract and become a free agent
Thought of this too, quite possibly Cody saw an opportunity to steal the starting job away from Ford and approved the trade to the Elks. Don't think it'll happen but you never know.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 19, 2025, 06:12:58 PMThought of this too, quite possibly Cody saw an opportunity to steal the starting job away from Ford and approved the trade to the Elks. Don't think it'll happen but you never know.
I believe Cody couldn't stand listening to those horns for another season.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 19, 2025, 09:07:34 PMI believe Cody couldn't stand listening to those horns for another season.
Big if true.
Hamilton signing yet another former Bomber. Chris Smith.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/19/hamilton-tiger-cats-sign-preseason-hero-chris-smith-one-other/
Quote from: Waffler on February 20, 2025, 03:29:31 PMHamilton signing yet another former Bomber. Chris Smith.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/19/hamilton-tiger-cats-sign-preseason-hero-chris-smith-one-other/
Probably signed as a backup to Greg Bell, who looked to be a decent RB on a team that never really tries hard to run the ball.
I hope the Ti-Cats pull a 2024-25 Nashville Predators this upcoming season.
Stubblefield, Amos, Dobson, Lawler... yes, HAM signed some talent.
But Fox, Garbutt, Cole, Wolitarsky, Szott, Bruggeling aren't game changers.
BLM is a year older.
They lost Beard and Dunbar.
They are not in the running for a cup, the 2 year deal they paid Lawler is going to be over before they challenge for a cup, possibly not even making the playoffs.
If I were Lawler, I'd have put in a bonus for him hitting his numbers but the team *not* making the playoffs, as compensation for the team not living up to their promise.
Hamilton will be lucky to make the post season, Toronto has to crater hard for them to get in. EDM might even cross over... think it might be the battle of the big spenders for the final playoff spot.
Augustine to Hamilton.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/21/hamilton-bomber-cats-canadian-rb-johnny-augustine-becomes-eighth-ex-winnipeg-player-to-signs-with-ticats/
Quote from: theaardvark on February 21, 2025, 04:56:30 PMStubblefield, Amos, Dobson, Lawler... yes, HAM signed some talent.
But Fox, Garbutt, Cole, Wolitarsky, Szott, Bruggeling aren't game changers.
BLM is a year older.
They lost Beard and Dunbar.
They are not in the running for a cup, the 2 year deal they paid Lawler is going to be over before they challenge for a cup, possibly not even making the playoffs.
If I were Lawler, I'd have put in a bonus for him hitting his numbers but the team *not* making the playoffs, as compensation for the team not living up to their promise.
Hamilton will be lucky to make the post season, Toronto has to crater hard for them to get in. EDM might even cross over... think it might be the battle of the big spenders for the final playoff spot.
That's true. It seems they have been signing all our guys but it's not really a ton of big names. Just quantity over quality.
Quote from: Waffler on February 21, 2025, 07:19:42 PMAugustine to Hamilton.
https://3downnation.com/2025/02/21/hamilton-bomber-cats-canadian-rb-johnny-augustine-becomes-eighth-ex-winnipeg-player-to-signs-with-ticats/
The Goveia Effect?
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 21, 2025, 07:56:06 PMThe Goveia Effect?
Sorry to see him go and I wish him well in Hamilton. It's the nature of free agency, roster size and new players coming onto the roster. You can't keep everyone and find a role for them.
Logan signalled the end for Johnny. Its too bad, I really like him here. But it makes sense, and again, Goviea signs an ex-Bomber. I don't think there was a player he signed, though, that Walters actually wanted without overpaying dramatically, so he really didn't "steal" anyone, but he did give a soft landing for a bunch of players we had moved on from.
I thought that Streveler would sign in Hamilton after Woli ended up there... I guess he prefers to be on a winner, unlike Lawler ;)
Good for Augustine, I hope he gets a chance to play there as I still think we under utilized him here
Quote from: dd on February 21, 2025, 11:41:00 PMGood for Augustine, I hope he gets a chance to play there as I still think we under utilized him here
As much as I liked Augustine here, not sure how he would fit in other than STs. He could not supplant Oliviera, he was not a threat as a punt returner, his fit was on STs. Maybe explain how we "under utilized" him here.
The reality is Augustine signed in Hamilton because we chose not to sign him.
Happy for him to continue playing. He really had no role in this team moving forward.
Quote from: Jesse on February 22, 2025, 11:43:09 AMHappy for him to continue playing. He really had no role in this team moving forward.
Unless the indestructible Brady goes down for 6 games, then we'll see some shuffling to fill the gaps. Logan isn't really a full game RB and if he's filling in for Brady, the return game will drop off.
People like to say Augustine was an inadequate RB but everytime they gave the ball to him he delivered. I'm hoping he gets the chance to shine a bit more in Hamilton, he certainly deserves it.
Quote from: DM83 on February 22, 2025, 04:53:24 PMAugustine always gained yards when given the ball. He got a raw deal here.
Ok...let's say Brady gets hurt, let's speculate...who is the replacement? Gauthier? Ok stop laughing. Again, a short sighted, decision. What are the Bombers doin?
I don't think he got a raw deal. He was a depth player and played a depth role.
In terms of back-ups. We have Logan, MCI, Demski, and I imagine a rookie American will be in training camp and make the PR.
Quote from: DM83 on February 22, 2025, 05:22:52 PMLogan ? What position did he play? For who?
What nationality is he?
Did Logan play running back how many carries did he have as a running back for what contending team?
And what nationality is he?
Answer me please? I don't want to miss facts or confide with unrealistic dreams
Do you really not know who he is?
He's a RB. He's entering his 4th year in the CFL and has been more productive than Augustine on offence while also being a full time KR/PR.
I'm hoping he's going to be a useful part of our offence even while Brady is healthy.
Peyton Logan 2024:
Rushing: 14 games, 61/355 yards. 5.8 yard avg. Longest 42 yards.
Receiving: 14 games, 23/33 121 yards, 5.3 avg. Longest 23 yards.
Kick Returns: 14 games, 28/635 yards, 22.7 avg. Longest 42 yards.
Punt Returns: 14 games, 40/539 yards, 13.5 avg. Longest 104 yards, 1 TD.
JA27 was with the Bombers for 6 seasons. Excellent person and an excellent team mate. Sad to see him go. But, really excited to see what MCI can do in the pre-season.
Quote from: ModAdmin on February 22, 2025, 05:56:21 AMAs much as I liked Augustine here, not sure how he would fit in other than STs. He could not supplant Oliviera, he was not a threat as a punt returner, his fit was on STs. Maybe explain how we "under utilized" him here.
I would have spelled him in for BO to give BO more rest and less wear and tear on his body to prolong his career. He was his backup and a ST player, I just thought we could have used him more as a RB, as he can run very well. We'll see what Hamilton does with him, likely just a ST'er there, which I thought we would have kept him here for, as well as had him in the event BO gets injured.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 22, 2025, 09:11:17 PMJA27 was with the Bombers for 6 seasons. Excellent person and an excellent team mate. Sad to see him go. But, really excited to see what MCI can do in the pre-season.
Yes, the only reason we let JA27 walk is we must feel MCIke is good enough to fill that role should Brady get hurt. Period.
Logan isn't the reason we ditched Johnny. Logan is this season's McCrae, and will probably be used as such on O (besides his returner duties). Logan is not a multi-game fill in for Brady if he gets injured as it'll ruin the ratio, which will be tight this year with (if) Randolph at LG.
Quote from: DM83 on February 22, 2025, 04:53:24 PMAugustine always gained yards when given the ball. He got a raw deal here.
But we may have been the best he could hope for. He's in a weird position as a NAT RB that he's not AH/BO level and thus no team would ever name him as their franchise RB. Yet he's possibly the best NAT backup in the league and great STer. Thus we held him as long as possible.
He wasn't going to be let go until we knew we had a near-ELC NAT who could do a half decent job. Now we have that assurance.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 19, 2025, 04:24:58 PMShea Patterson will earn $88,000 in hard money.
Reggie White Jr. and Jerreth Sterns, will both make between $85,000 and $90,000 in hard money.
Peyton Logan got a $10,000 signing bonus to come to Winnipeg on a deal worth $107,500 in hard money.
These are steals. Heck, I'm sour on greenie Patterson, but even I can warm up to him at $88k!! There is a 15% chance he might make something of himself someday, and I'll roll those dice for $88k!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 19, 2025, 04:24:58 PMJonathan Jones received a $15,000 signing bonus to join the Blue Bombers on a contract worth $120,500 in hard money for 2025, which is significantly more than veteran Kyrie Wilson is set to make. As such, it seems fair to speculate that Jones is penciled in as the starter at weak-side linebacker, a spot he manned off and on over three seasons with the Toronto Argonauts.
Our WILLs always get injured in a season. I'm fine with having 2 very good ones in-house.
Quote from: Blue In BC on February 16, 2025, 04:51:13 PMIt's not clear we achieved that or even in fact spent as much SMS in 2025 as in 2024?
I think we may have the cheapest
starting REC corps in the league, if it's Mitchell White Demski Schoen Clercius. And the surprising part will be our main NAT will be our top earner! Very strange times.
Factor in our depth, though, assuming the retain the other signings past TC, and the savings may disappear. Depth over star power.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 16, 2025, 04:43:32 PMMany QB's are good at this but Zach hasn't done this well for a number of years, he tends to pick a couple of favourites every game and mostly focuses on them.
But how much of that was Zach and how much Buck? Yes, they tended to try to spread the ball around early but then quickly focused on the hot hand that particular day. Sometimes it worked out, sometimes not.
This might change with Hogan. Who knows.
Quote from: theaardvark on February 16, 2025, 04:37:58 PMI don't think MOS or WFC is a team that thrives on the big play. We are a lunch bucket team, a dink and dunk team, a run heavy team.
I disagree. Under Buck/Zach we were a polarized O that basically did nothing but the run and the big deep (20+) play. When those worked we were at our best. We push the run game hard to open up the deep shot.
Our main problem the last 2 years was the short pass. We were a bit better at the mid-range zone read, but you often only get a couple of those openings a game.
Look at the GC: we were trying deep shot after deep shot, but since the run game was being stuffed we weren't pulling the defenders in enough, and so everything failed after that one good series.
A nice thing about Hogan's stated strategy for the coming year is we may finally get the lunch bucket short game working well. Being able to chip away at the D with near-unstoppable plays is handy, as MTL proved in the '23 GC, and TOR in the '24 GC.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2025, 05:50:29 AMYes, the only reason we let JA27 walk is we must feel MCIke is good enough to fill that role should Brady get hurt. Period.
Logan isn't the reason we ditched Johnny. Logan is this season's McCrae, and will probably be used as such on O (besides his returner duties). Logan is not a multi-game fill in for Brady if he gets injured as it'll ruin the ratio, which will be tight this year with (if) Randolph at LG.
MCI is still a big question mark in my estimation, zero touches last season and they brought in Bailey Feltmate to help out blocking at FB. Why???
Blows my mind they would take a high draft pick and not think to give him any touches all season just to see how he responds and to give him a pat on the back for being a part of the club. It's not like Brady couldn't "spare a square" in his quest for a thousand yd. season.
MCI was used on ST, and as a rookie, you don't give them more than they can chew. Get good at ST, and then get other opportunities.
We don't seem to give understudies touches. Players play, and if they can't play, backups get plays. Even in blowouts, we seem to rarely give backups a shot. Even at QB, where those reps are soo important.
His "running style" is said to be un-conventional. More stand up than normal. I wonder if he's like Cornish. Maybe Hogan was working with him on that last year, and is confident that he's CFL backup ready enough now to let JA27 walk.
it's interesting the difference in approach that the two Alberta teams have taken to free agency, both coming off losing seasons with a big deterioration in fans
Calgary is likely under the cap, not going after (or at least successfully) big names. Result likely will be more of the same this year.
Edmonton is likely 300k over last years cap. Knowing that the only way to drive up attendance and the resulting revenues is to go out and add talent esp on the lines and cdns regardless of cost. If it results in 5000 more seats in stands it will more than pay off.
This is reflective in the ownership with Elks having a new excited owner and the stamps lack of. Elks changed over gm/coaches while stamps dig in again with Dickenson.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 24, 2025, 04:40:26 PMMCI is still a big question mark in my estimation, zero touches last season and they brought in Bailey Feltmate to help out blocking at FB. Why???
Blows my mind they would take a high draft pick and not think to give him any touches all season just to see how he responds and to give him a pat on the back for being a part of the club. It's not like Brady couldn't "spare a square" in his quest for a thousand yd. season.
Big question mark is an understatement, I don't recall the guy making a play last year. We know Augustine can run the ball and can sub in for Brady in the event of injury or fatigue/injury prevention, and he can return punts and kicks if need be and is a good ST er, and he helps with the ratio. I don't get why we let him walk for the salary he was asking. God help us if BO gets hurt as we ll have ratio issues.
Peyton Logan is the in game back up running back this season unless he's hurt. It's not even really a question. He'll also get touches here and there when Oliveira needs a break.
Logan is a perfect change up because he can threaten the edges which is something we've struggled with at times since Brady doesn't really have the wheels to scare anyone on the perimeter. Both in the backfield at once will mean defenses can't load up the interior like they have been the last couple years.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 25, 2025, 11:06:53 PMPeyton Logan is the in game back up running back this season unless he's hurt. It's not even really a question. He'll also get touches here and there when Oliveira needs a break.
Logan is a perfect change up because he can threaten the edges which is something we've struggled with at times since Brady doesn't really have the wheels to scare anyone on the perimeter. Both in the backfield at once will mean defenses can't load up the interior like they have been the last couple years.
Ya and Logan is a far better RB than JA, but when he comes on the field an import somewhere on offense likely comes off, either on the OL or receiving corps. With JA , he didn't impact the ratio as it was a NAT for NAT sub
Quote from: dd on February 25, 2025, 11:52:24 PMYa and Logan is a far better RB than JA, but when he comes on the field an import somewhere on offense likely comes off, either on the OL or receiving corps. With JA , he didn't impact the ratio as it was a NAT for NAT sub
Many ways to do that. The difference is we will want to, because he's talented and will be effective. On the other hand, we never wanted Augustine on the field and hoped to never use him much.
Quote from: Pete on February 25, 2025, 08:55:15 PMThis is reflective in the ownership with Elks having a new excited owner and the stamps lack of. Elks changed over gm/coaches while stamps dig in again with Dickenson.
Isn't CGY still "community-owned". I doubt a responsible BoD would ever greenlight the Prez to purposely go over the cap, and thus pay double/triple fines. (That could be part of why we're not going mental this year either.)
Elks new private owner can be like Doman and say "money's unlimited guys, get me some wins and cups". There's some advantage to the simplicity of a single owner over a committee of people scared to stick their necks out.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 25, 2025, 11:06:53 PMPeyton Logan is the in game back up running back this season unless he's hurt. It's not even really a question. He'll also get touches here and there when Oliveira needs a break.
It's not the in-game injury issue that will be the big problem: it'll be the multi-game injury scenario.
Not starting a NAT at RB will be major pain for us, and may cause a big drop off somewhere else. That's why I'm pretty sure we are confident Ike can be reasonable as a starter if forced into action. I really can't see us starting >1 game with Logan as the starter.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 26, 2025, 12:41:07 AMMany ways to do that. The difference is we will want to, because he's talented and will be effective. On the other hand, we never wanted Augustine on the field and hoped to never use him much.
You make it sound like he's Butler or Carey. He's not. Logan is a tier 2 RB and as such is not an ideal choice as starter, even in an injury scenario.
He's like an even faster and talented McCrae. But he's not a league top-5.
I'm sure Logan is here more for his return ability, not his RB prowess. I bet at best he gets used at RB as much as McCrae at his peak.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 26, 2025, 12:52:22 AMYou make it sound like he's Butler or Carey. He's not. Logan is a tier 2 RB and as such is not an ideal choice as starter, even in an injury scenario.
He's like an even faster and talented McCrae. But he's not a league top-5.
I'm sure Logan is here more for his return ability, not his RB prowess. I bet at best he gets used at RB as much as McCrae at his peak.
He's going to be our primary returner but he's also going to be our in game backup at running back and he's absolutely going to get some double backfield looks and be able to spell of Oliveira from time to time. You'll see.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 26, 2025, 01:23:17 AMHe's going to be our primary returner but he's also going to be our in game backup at running back and he's absolutely going to get some double backfield looks and be able to spell of Oliveira from time to time. You'll see.
Wouldn't count on it, when was the last time you saw a 2 RB set in the Bomber backfield? On top of being the best RB in the league Brady is also the best at protecting his QB, I can't see them casually forgetting how important that is. I suspect we will see Logan come in occasionally as a slot, like they did with Janarion Grant.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 26, 2025, 05:07:17 AMWouldn't count on it, when was the last time you saw a 2 RB set in the Bomber backfield? On top of being the best RB in the league Brady is also the best at protecting his QB, I can't see them casually forgetting how important that is. I suspect we will see Logan come in occasionally as a slot, like they did with Janarion Grant.
Buck used it way more than you'd think, primarily with Demski but not exclusively. It's not the old school twin back look from the huddle (although we may see it sometimes this year too), but LaPolice (and then adopted and adapted by Buck) often made it difficult to tell who the running back was in certain formations. Sometimes it was Demski, sometimes Brady and sometimes they operated it like a traditional two back after the snap. Logan will be more effective in that role that anyone else.
Any self-respecting OC will use all the tools available to him. I'm sure we Logan plugged into the offense somehow, even if his primary role will be as a returner.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 26, 2025, 12:46:33 AMIsn't CGY still "community-owned".
Owned by the Flames, controlled by Murray Edwards a proud native of Sask. who made billions off the oilsands then moved to Switzerland so he wouldn't have to pay Canadian income tax.
Edmonton: Robbie Smith 270K, Ford 230K, Ceresna 235K, Beard 197K, Brinkman 160K, Barlow 160K, Grant 153K, Metchie 145K. Most of these contracts also have a bonus attached to them.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 26, 2025, 04:56:16 PMEdmonton: Robbie Smith 270K, Ford 230K, Ceresna 235K, Beard 197K, Brinkman 160K, Barlow 160K, Grant 153K, Metchie 145K. Most of these contracts also have a bonus attached to them.
Brinkman at $160k seems like a good deal, they paid over market for everyone else on that list, which is what you have to do if you want to steal players away from other teams.
Interesting that 3DN has salary info. on almost every team this year, I wonder if they're receiving it from a single agent or if the CFLPA is working with them to leak salary info.
Haba got $100K from the Argos.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 26, 2025, 01:37:21 PMBuck used it way more than you'd think, primarily with Demski but not exclusively. It's not the old school twin back look from the huddle (although we may see it sometimes this year too), but LaPolice (and then adopted and adapted by Buck) often made it difficult to tell who the running back was in certain formations. Sometimes it was Demski, sometimes Brady and sometimes they operated it like a traditional two back after the snap. Logan will be more effective in that role that anyone else.
More likely to see Demski in backfiileld occasionally with BO than Logan imo. I would like to see both occur but not too much. BO is the heart of the club and the engine that drives the bus imo. O wait Zach dropping dimes too, lol.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 26, 2025, 09:32:37 PMHaba got $100K from the Argos.
Good value, I would have paid him . that. Hope what we bring in is better. I think he will be good for them.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 26, 2025, 01:37:21 PMbut LaPolice (and then adopted and adapted by Buck) often made it difficult to tell who the running back was in certain formations. Sometimes it was Demski, sometimes Brady and sometimes they operated it like a traditional two back after the snap. Logan will be more effective in that role that anyone else.
But those things were always with sweeps and crossers where the "other RB" was aligned as a SB. How many times did we see a dual-back alignment in initial formation? Maybe once? Never?
Some of the other teams have deployed an actual 2 tailback formation, and where both players were actual RBs, not REC-swiss-army-knife players like Demski.
The point of all this being we'll probably never see a formation where Brady is 3' to the right of Zach whilst Logan is 3' to the left.
But who knows, maybe Logan can get crazy creative with formations... then again, that may go against his KISS motto.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 26, 2025, 09:32:37 PMHaba got $100K from the Argos.
Quote from: Blueforlife on February 26, 2025, 09:35:03 PMGood value, I would have paid him . that. Hope what we bring in is better. I think he will be good for them.
Ya, that's about right, and good for Haba and the Argos. We must have felt we were going to have better and/or Haba's upside was limited. And that's fine.
Haba was good as an ELC DL, but he'll probably never be Willie or Jeffcoat.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 26, 2025, 10:23:15 PMYa, that's about right, and good for Haba and the Argos. We must have felt we were going to have better and/or Haba's upside was limited. And that's fine.
Haba was good as an ELC DL, but he'll probably never be Willie or Jeffcoat.
I doubt the Bombers made Haba any offer, it'll be interesting to see if Garbutt received more than that from the Ti-Cats.
Willie and Jeffcoat were fully formed before they reached the CFL, their athletic skills likely developed during their teen years, nobody is going to advance to their level after a few years of exhibiting mediocrity.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 26, 2025, 11:18:07 PMI doubt the Bombers made Haba any offer, it'll be interesting to see if Garbutt received more than that from the Ti-Cats.
Willie and Jeffcoat were fully formed before they reached the CFL, their athletic skills likely developed during their teen years, nobody is going to advance to their level after a few years of exhibiting mediocrity.
Rookie Seasons2014 Willie Jefferson - 17 games played, 4 sacks, 19 DTs
2023 Celestin Haba - 12 games played, 4 sacks, 12 DTs
2024 Tyjuan Garbutt - 12 games played, 3 sacks, 19 DTs
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 27, 2025, 01:36:34 PMRookie Seasons
2014 Willie Jefferson - 17 games played, 4 sacks, 19 DTs
2023 Celestin Haba - 12 games played, 4 sacks, 12 DTs
2024 Tyjuan Garbutt - 12 games played, 3 sacks, 19 DTs
Yah, guess you're right they're going to be just as good as Willie and Jeffcoat eventually, wonder why the Bombers let them walk???
Perfect case of "stats don't tell the real/whole story". Willie has always exceeded his stats. Many others DEs will leave their assignment to go for the sack in order to get the stats and love. And many fans won't notice that the same attitude lets through a ton of run yards.
Team first. Scheme second. Showboat third.
I think what everyone forgets is that Willie wasn't a DE when he came to the CFL. I believe Haba just couldn't stay healthy. I thought Garbutt was the better of the two of the two players. So, it will be interesting to see what Garbutt signed for.
Quote from: Pigskin on February 28, 2025, 07:56:23 PMI think what everyone forgets is that Willie wasn't a DE when he came to the CFL. I believe Haba just couldn't stay healthy. I thought Garbutt was the better of the two of the two players. So, it will be interesting to see what Garbutt signed for.
I thought Willie made the transition from receiver to DE very early in his college career? AC Leonard is the receiver Jones converted to DE to model Willie.
Stamps new receiver
https://youtu.be/7MxXKK3bAmo?si=K5FgeDpDx06rom0U
Free Agent signings by Calgary: Rhymes $165K- $27K sing bonus. Webb $150K- $30K SB, Miles Brown $132K- $25K SB, Tevin Jones $130K- $15K SB, Sopik $128K- $17.5K SB, Greene $125K- $10K SB, Antwi $105K- $10K SB, Moncrief $90K.
Rhymes and Begelton will give VAJ 2 decent targets. Moncreith is a steal at $90k
Quote from: Pigskin on March 01, 2025, 07:21:13 PMFree Agent signings by Calgary: Rhymes $165K- $27K sing bonus. Webb $150K- $30K SB, Miles Brown $132K- $25K SB, Tevin Jones $130K- $15K SB, Sopik $128K- $17.5K SB, Greene $125K- $10K SB, Antwi $105K- $10K SB, Moncrief $90K.
DB salaries are creeping up, lucky they locked up Holm early in the process, they might have to pay Nichols $150-160k to retain him next time he becomes a FA.
Prokup signed by the Stamps.
To coach.
Quote from: theaardvark on March 03, 2025, 10:29:23 PMProkup signed by the Stamps.
To coach.
Wow, who do the Stamps have behind Adams?? I would think Prokup would be their SY Qb minimum and possibly their #2 Qb. Good for him though he's coaching.
Quote from: Pigskin on March 01, 2025, 07:21:13 PMFree Agent signings by Calgary: Rhymes $165K- $27K sing bonus. Webb $150K- $30K SB, Miles Brown $132K- $25K SB
vomit
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 02, 2025, 04:07:26 PMDB salaries are creeping up, lucky they locked up Holm early in the process, they might have to pay Nichols $150-160k to retain him next time he becomes a FA.
Nah, Nichols is getting up there in age for a DB. Those guys are almost always the youngest unit. Shelf life is limited. Good DB attributes are the first to age out.
It's rare a star DB leaves here and goes on to shine elsewhere.
Quote from: theaardvark on March 03, 2025, 10:29:23 PMProkup signed by the Stamps.
To coach.
Darn, because if Strev's knees can't handle it or he gets injured, there's no other CFL QB I'd rather have in SY than Prukop. I'd posit he's the best in the league at getting that 1-1.5 yards.
... until we find the next one!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 04, 2025, 07:55:00 AMDarn, because if Strev's knees can't handle it or he gets injured, there's no other CFL QB I'd rather have in SY than Prukop. I'd posit he's the best in the league at getting that 1-1.5 yards.
... until we find the next one!
6'5" 245lb Tommy Stevens, formerly of Calgary, was far and away the best SY QB in 2024 - 60 carries for 237 yards (almost 4.0 YPC) and 10 TDs. I'd have liked the Bombers to go after him in FA, but the Riders grabbed him.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 04, 2025, 07:55:00 AMthere's no other CFL QB I'd rather have in SY than Prukop.
At one time I'd agree but others seem to be learning it as a specialty too, with success. He did raise the bar though, no doubt.
I would not want to sign any QB just to do SY.
I'm going to waste a QB roster spot because one guy gets the yard 95% of the time instead of 91% of the time? I'd rather train a prospect how to do the sneak while hoping they can develop into something more.
I think Wilson handled the SY very well last season.
Quote from: Jesse on March 04, 2025, 04:55:32 PMI would not want to sign any QB just to do SY.
I'm going to waste a QB roster spot because one guy gets the yard 95% of the time instead of 91% of the time? I'd rather train a prospect how to do the sneak while hoping they can develop into something more.
We could have had Stevens, Prokup AND Streveler here, we'd be unbeatable!
Or, we can get a FB to take the punishment of SY plays. Or even a DT, like The Fridge did. Can you imagine Fatboi crashing the line? Or Willie diving over?
Quote from: theaardvark on March 04, 2025, 05:22:46 PMWe could have had Stevens, Prokup AND Streveler here, we'd be unbeatable!
Or, we can get a FB to take the punishment of SY plays. Or even a DT, like The Fridge did. Can you imagine Fatboi crashing the line? Or Willie diving over?
I think he'd get stuffed for no gain more often than not.
You want someone with a quick first step more than anything.
Quote from: VictorRomano on March 04, 2025, 03:12:55 PM6'5" 245lb Tommy Stevens, formerly of Calgary, was far and away the best SY QB in 2024 - 60 carries for 237 yards (almost 4.0 YPC) and 10 TDs. I'd have liked the Bombers to go after him in FA, but the Riders grabbed him.
Stevens would be a great choice, but I'd still go with Prukop. What we need isn't any YAC or breakaways: No, what MOS needs is 99% on the 1-1.75Y range, and hopefully 90% on 2Y. The entire 2017(ish)-2023 was patterned around this. Just get 9Y in 2 downs.
Quote from: Jesse on March 04, 2025, 04:55:32 PMI would not want to sign any QB just to do SY.
I'm going to waste a QB roster spot because one guy gets the yard 95% of the time instead of 91% of the time? I'd rather train a prospect how to do the sneak while hoping they can develop into something more.
If The Can Mafia was named Jesse, sure. But the real Mafia's pattern has been to have a dedicated SY guy, who hopefully can throw if given a chance, but perfectly fine if he can't.
Since we are allowed to roster 3 QB again, there's no reason to try to dev & keep 2 legit #2's. It's perfectly fine to dedicate a spot to SY and getting it up to 99%.
Quote from: Pigskin on March 04, 2025, 05:20:32 PMI think Wilson handled the SY very well last season.
That he did! But the big question is Wilson still going to be on the AR come week 1. If not, I don't really want to trust SY to Patterson or Dolegala! They were pretty bad when in Green (and Orange).
Now if Strevy is 100%, then we're ok in any event. And if we have Strevy + Wilson (both healthy) then we'll be totally set for SY, and the only big question mark will be who's the viable #2 (if any).
Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 05, 2025, 05:26:00 AMIf The Can Mafia was named Jesse, sure. But the real Mafia's pattern has been to have a dedicated SY guy, who hopefully can throw if given a chance, but perfectly fine if he can't.
Since we are allowed to roster 3 QB again, there's no reason to try to dev & keep 2 legit #2's. It's perfectly fine to dedicate a spot to SY and getting it up to 99%.
Other than Prukop (and this was when our back-up and developmental spot were both used by Dru), is this true?
https://3downnation.com/2025/03/03/bmo-field-home-of-toronto-argonauts-to-receive-150-million-in-upgrades-for-2026-fifa-world-cup/
Quote from: Jesse on March 05, 2025, 12:08:57 PMOther than Prukop (and this was when our back-up and developmental spot were both used by Dru), is this true?
Uh... as someone who tracks & loves the SY game, I can emphatically say that it's 100% true. And Dru was never "the SY guy", he was always on the dev track and we always had a (near-)"dedicated" SY guy when he was here.
(going from memory here...)
Marve
Dom Davis (a #2 hopeful)
Le Fevour (my fave).
McGuire (another #2 hopeful)
Strevy (the only one who had any shot at being a real #2)
Prukop
(Then Strevy again)
Every single guy above was also given a chance to prove they were the next starter. Almost all failed miserably. Dom got a few more chances than the others. McGuire was a hopeful but quickly was id'd as another Marve/Feve.
That takes us back to basically when I started going to games again: 2014.
My faves in order of "best at SY" (and ignoring all other attributes) would be:
Feve
McGuire
Prukop
Marve
Strevy
Dom
Dom really only had 1 season here as "the SY guy" and he was still being groomed as #2. It was only after he left here that he switched to being a dedicated SY guy.
You can have a decent and long career in the CFL if you can be the league best or 2nd best SY guy. Heck, look how long Dom hung around even after he clearly was not starter material!
I'm really glad MOS values the SY role and I love his "you only need to get 9" philosophy. I really enjoy the 1Y trenches battle. I have utmost respect for the guys who accept they can't be a #1 and dedicate all their energy into being the league-best SY. Too many think it's beneath them, when it's one of the most important parts of the WPG game.
We are very lucky (or KW/MOS are so good!) that we've often had the league-best SY guy on our roster.
If Strevy gets injured and we have retained Wilson, I hope he can step up to the plate (even if still being groomed for #2). Otherwise maybe we can shake Stevens / Prukop loose.
We've done very well sniping pre-vetted SY guys from other teams, as half the list above demonstrates. I bet we can do it again, as so many HCs/GMs are shortsighted and don't value the SY position.
I look forward to another year of (near?) league best SY performance! Gettin' excited to see the first 2025 sneak in late May!!
Quote from: Blueforlife on March 05, 2025, 01:37:50 PMhttps://3downnation.com/2025/03/03/bmo-field-home-of-toronto-argonauts-to-receive-150-million-in-upgrades-for-2026-fifa-world-cup/
This is completely bonkers. MLSE just got a massive freebie injection, barely putting up any money themselves!
And 150M? Uh, didn't all of IGF/PAS cost only $30M? (50 with overruns??) A couple of video boards, etc, is 150M??
Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 06, 2025, 08:31:45 AMThis is completely bonkers. MLSE just got a massive freebie injection, barely putting up any money themselves!
And 150M? Uh, didn't all of IGF/PAS cost only $30M? (50 with overruns??) A couple of video boards, etc, is 150M??
PAS cost $210 million, and has had multiple repairs/upgrades over the years, probably to the tune of another $40mil, so $250 mil total.
BC Place "renovation" was a whopping $514 including the new roof and scoreboard.
Costs of renovations and updates vary by many factors, including what they are starting with, and what they intend to end up with... some technology and surfaces cost a lot more than others.
PAS was also built over 10 years ago. Cost of construction has gone up significantly in that period of time.
Dobson signed at 210k and Woli at 132k can see why they aren't here
Hamilton Free Agent Signings.
Lawler $287K, $125K SB
Dobson $210K, $35K SB. $220 in 2026.
Stubblefield $150K.
Woli $135K, $15K SB.
Garbutt $126K, $9K SB
Amos $125K, $10K SB.
Howsare $110K
JA27, Szott, Fox, Hubert, Cole, $100K.
Ottawa Free Agent Signings.
Lewis $223K, $100K, SB.
Gober $145K,
Shiltz $112K, $10K, SB.
Stanback, $106K, $20K, SB.
Henderson $94K
Adeleke $90K
Knight $100K
Quote from: Pete on March 06, 2025, 04:31:58 PMDobson signed at 210k and Woli at 132k can see why they aren't here
So, Woli got a $20k raise after his release.
Good for him.
Ya, that is good for him. Still surprised we let a good NAT go, they're hard to come by. Even if Clercius starts, injuries do happen, and after years of luxury with an abundant number of starting NATS, I m concerned we'll get into ratio trouble with injuries. But I get it, we can't pay a backup $132k
yeah I feel that we are one potential Canadian starter away from having a well rounded team. If we end up starting an import at guard, that means that with Castillo and Logan taking up two designated imp spots we only have two left. Likely a linebacker (Jones) and a dl (Adams)
(Assuming Griffin starts at safety, I'm not ready to call Kelly a starter yet)
Quote from: dd on March 06, 2025, 11:14:46 PMYa, that is good for him. Still surprised we let a good NAT go, they're hard to come by. Even if Clercius starts, injuries do happen, and after years of luxury with an abundant number of starting NATS, I m concerned we'll get into ratio trouble with injuries. But I get it, we can't pay a backup $132k
I bet if the Bombers wouldn't have cut him early he would have signed for $110k he earned last season unless Goveia was already whispering numbers in his ear prior to FA. Again, which other teams drove the price on Woli, Garbutt or Dobson up so much above what they earned last year?
They cut Woli ahead of a roster bonus, he was under contract for 2025 already at $112k
Quote from: theaardvark on March 07, 2025, 02:28:04 AMThey cut Woli ahead of a roster bonus, he was under contract for 2025 already at $112k
what was the bonus due to him??
Quote from: dd on March 07, 2025, 03:06:31 AMwhat was the bonus due to him??
I believe it was $10k...
We know why he was released, Clercius stole his job. There just wasn't enough space on the roster for both.
Woli was worth every penny of what he was signed for, no doubt, and worth what Ham is paying him.
If Clercius hadn't so effectively earned that spot, Woli would still be here. Even with him coming off injury.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 06, 2025, 11:29:47 PMI bet if the Bombers wouldn't have cut him early he would have signed for $110k he earned last season unless Goveia was already whispering numbers in his ear prior to FA. Again, which other teams drove the price on Woli, Garbutt or Dobson up so much above what they earned last year?
But Woli stated he was shocked he was let go by WFC. I think he was fully prepared to re-sign here for around the same $ as last year.
Shocked? Worth every penny? Wolitarsky? Get some objectivity.
Be sad if he was your favourite player if you like, I get that, but his actual contributions on the field are why he was let go. Physicality has been in decline for several seasons. He's not very durable anymore and he plays that 5th receiver spot. He was outplayed by a 2024 draft pack in almost every measure last season. I guarantee you if Clercius has another season like last the Bombers will happily pay him the same money they were giving Wolitarsky.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 07, 2025, 06:43:24 AMBut Woli stated he was shocked he was let go by WFC. I think he was fully prepared to re-sign here for around the same $ as last year.
Again, he was under contract already for 2025, he was not a pending free agent. The timing of his release was because he was about to get a roster bonus ($10k of his 2025 $112k contract).
He had been replaced on the roster by Clercius, and was coming off an substantial injury. We could have gifted him the $10k and then brought him to camp, but the chances he makes the roster are slim outside of injury or Clercius' complete collapse. If anything, he's have ended up being a late cut, which is not a great look for him or the team after his contributions over the years.
Better to make a clean break and let Goveia give him an actual raise and a guaranteed roster spot.
Quote from: theaardvark on March 07, 2025, 03:23:56 PMAgain, he was under contract already for 2025, he was not a pending free agent. The timing of his release was because he was about to get a roster bonus ($10k of his 2025 $112k contract).
He had been replaced on the roster by Clercius, and was coming off an substantial injury. We could have gifted him the $10k and then brought him to camp, but the chances he makes the roster are slim outside of injury or Clercius' complete collapse. If anything, he's have ended up being a late cut, which is not a great look for him or the team after his contributions over the years.
Better to make a clean break and let Goveia give him an actual raise and a guaranteed roster spot.
That's speculative to say the least. Our Canadian depth at receiver is questionable. Perhaps we draft one in the up coming draft but that's a TBD. I don't think anyone is questioning Clercius is the starter.
It's a question of cost versus productivity and yes $110K - $125K is too much for that role. It was the same argument I had about Augustine.
Good players in back up roles. However, you have to make room on the roster for the newbies drafted and you have to make SMS decisions.
It's a business and this is just part of it. I would have been happy to have Woli back at $90K-$100K but that would have been unfair for him.
Good for him getting a good deal in Hamilton and I hope he has a successful season.
Quote from: Blue In BC on March 07, 2025, 03:58:02 PMThat's speculative to say the least. Our Canadian depth at receiver is questionable. Perhaps we draft one in the up coming draft but that's a TBD. I don't think anyone is questioning Clercius is the starter.
It's a question of cost versus productivity and yes $110K - $125K is too much for that role. It was the same argument I had about Augustine.
Good players in back up roles. However, you have to make room on the roster for the newbies drafted and you have to make SMS decisions.
It's a business and this is just part of it. I would have been happy to have Woli back at $90K-$100K but that would have been unfair for him.
Good for him getting a good deal in Hamilton and I hope he has a successful season.
The decision was keeping him at $112k (with $10k of that about to be paid), or parting ways. We could have renegotiated his deal to less, but I don't think it is optimal having a guy in the lockerroom providing what Woli brings (he is a fun, glue guy) having cut his pay.
What surprised me was Streveler re-signing after Woli was cut.
Quote from: theaardvark on March 07, 2025, 04:16:41 PMThe decision was keeping him at $112k (with $10k of that about to be paid), or parting ways. We could have renegotiated his deal to less, but I don't think it is optimal having a guy in the lockerroom providing what Woli brings (he is a fun, glue guy) having cut his pay.
What surprised me was Streveler re-signing after Woli was cut.
I don't disagree. Just saying that even paying out the bonus would not have been the worst idea. It's a risk management decision and I understand it. We find out the Cobb is a good depth player that solves the problem for less money and / or we also draft a receiver in the 1st couple of rounds.
The reality is that Woli versus Cobb probably only saves $20K more or less. It all adds up.
As far as Streveler I don't imagine he had much interest elsewhere. He's not going to be considered as the # 2 QB elsewhere and would only be the SY QB on other rosters. He's not a high cost back up and has a role he can be productive.
It depends on how our new OC changes his role though.
Falcons not offering Dee Alford a new deal. He may be looking for work elsewhere. Hard to say if he gets additional NFL offers with the up coming draft. There are always lots of younger DB's available on ELC's.
It may be a time when he considers returning to the CFL if he wants to continue playing. The catch is whether any team has SMS left to pay a high ( for the CFL ) salary. Perhaps the $400K cap increase comes into play if the league and CFLPA come to sort of agreement on how to spend it.
All that said, he may not return to Winnipeg even if he does return to the CFL. Will have to watch and see how this works out for him.
He did earn $2.7M usd over 3 years with the Falcons. Giving up trying to continue with that pay scale versus the CFL? He may just wait for an injury need during the season that gets him back on a roster. Even half a season is big money compared to the CFL.
Woli was very good for us, I would have brought him back but can't keep everyone and asking prices did increase. We will miss him.
Nice we have a replacement in the making though, which made the decision easier. Hope that works out.
Quote from: Blueforlife on March 07, 2025, 05:59:44 PMWoli was very good for us, I would have brought him back but can't keep everyone and asking prices did increase. We will miss him.
Nice we have a replacement in the making though, which made the decision easier. Hope that works out.
Woli was in place, at an affordable price. He's been a good soldier and a solid participant since joining the club, and Mr 2nd down lot of the time.
But Clercius is more than a replacement, he has shown to be an upgrade and only trending better. So I can't see missing Woli's declining production. We will miss his lighthearted guitar playing lockerroom presence, but on the field, I think Clercius cemented his spot after Woli's injury.
Quote from: theaardvark on March 07, 2025, 06:28:34 PMWoli was in place, at an affordable price. He's been a good soldier and a solid participant since joining the club, and Mr 2nd down lot of the time.
But Clercius is more than a replacement, he has shown to be an upgrade and only trending better. So I can't see missing Woli's declining production. We will miss his lighthearted guitar playing lockerroom presence, but on the field, I think Clercius cemented his spot after Woli's injury.
Can't argue with that these glue guys that can play are gold.
Quote from: theaardvark on March 07, 2025, 06:28:34 PMWoli was in place, at an affordable price. He's been a good soldier and a solid participant since joining the club, and Mr 2nd down lot of the time.
But Clercius is more than a replacement, he has shown to be an upgrade and only trending better. So I can't see missing Woli's declining production. We will miss his lighthearted guitar playing lockerroom presence, but on the field, I think Clercius cemented his spot after Woli's injury.
Meh, Clercius hasn't shown much yet, he seems to be a reliable target and has good size for blocking, but haven't seen him make a spectacular catch or run yet nor demonstrate the ability to break off a play when needed and put himself in position to help Zach out. This season will be his big chance to show his worth, right now he's trending towards Cory Watson, a solid if not spectacular support receiver.
Quote from: theaardvark on March 07, 2025, 04:16:41 PMWhat surprised me was Streveler re-signing after Woli was cut.
Wasn't the timing that Strev signed first then it slipped out no deal for Woli? Both were almost certainly expecting a Woli re-sign.
I could be wrong on the timing. As someone else said, Strevy probably has no value outside WFC.
Quote from: Blue In BC on March 07, 2025, 05:47:25 PMFalcons not offering Dee Alford a new deal.
Personally I'd be all over Alford at Nichols/Holm money (maybe a bit more). But not at Ford money.
However, I know KW doesn't like to tie up that much $ at DB, which is a "dime a dozen" spot. However however, our DB corps would be devastating to O's if we had our current roster + Alford.
We haven't won a cup since Alford left.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 07, 2025, 06:46:48 PMMeh, Clercius hasn't shown much yet, he seems to be a reliable target and has good size for blocking, but haven't seen him make a spectacular catch or run yet nor demonstrate the ability to break off a play when needed and put himself in position to help Zach out. This season will be his big chance to show his worth, right now he's trending towards Cory Watson, a solid if not spectacular support receiver.
Or JFG! Saying Woli was just another NAT WR is completely wrong. Besides Demski, who is more like an IMP-level, Woli is the best wide-out, hiding-the-NAT-REC we've had in forever.
The only reason you let Woli walk this season is if you think he's going to be tub-bound most of it. Mafia could be "sensing the end" of his career.
If Woli is 100% then he's worth at least what we paid him last year. Clercius hasn't done half of what Woli showed. Woli could make circus catches, to a degree. Woli would lay out for them. Woli was a legit EZ threat. Woli could catch the rail go route that JFG *never* caught in WPG. Woli could play inside and take the 2nd down beatings to move the sticks.
The only thing Clercius has shown to date is he's big, decent blocker, decent-to-good hands. Compared to Woli he hasn't shown squat. He's just way younger and cheaper. It's a gamble. We hope it pays off.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 10, 2025, 07:56:44 AMOr JFG! Saying Woli was just another NAT WR is completely wrong. Besides Demski, who is more like an IMP-level, Woli is the best wide-out, hiding-the-NAT-REC we've had in forever.
The only reason you let Woli walk this season is if you think he's going to be tub-bound most of it. Mafia could be "sensing the end" of his career.
If Woli is 100% then he's worth at least what we paid him last year. Clercius hasn't done half of what Woli showed. Woli could make circus catches, to a degree. Woli would lay out for them. Woli was a legit EZ threat. Woli could catch the rail go route that JFG *never* caught in WPG. Woli could play inside and take the 2nd down beatings to move the sticks.
The only thing Clercius has shown to date is he's big, decent blocker, decent-to-good hands. Compared to Woli he hasn't shown squat. He's just way younger and cheaper. It's a gamble. We hope it pays off.
Clercius was 32 of 40, with 11 yd average and 1 td. Woli was 33 of 47 with a 12.2 avg and 1 td.
Clercius had 10 games where he did not drop a ball that was thrown at him.
As a rookie.
Decent hands? I'd hate to see what someone would have to do to be considered as having good or great hands.
Yes, he needs time to learn the scramble rules and have them become as second nature as the Woli/Zac duo had after 5 years. The Mafia obviously thinks he can do that.
Anxious to see what he can do after a full year under his belt. With a FT role on the O, will he still play teams?
Comparing a rookie to a seasoned veteran on equal terms is illogical.
Alford....
I followed the Falcons a bit, mostly for the laughs, but their secondary was quite bad last season.
Woli suffered a couple of serious injuries this season and I am certain that is what lead to his release. Also, Clercius has shown very well, and is bigger, stronger, healthier and cheaper. It's a tough call, but the right call
Quote from: theaardvark on March 10, 2025, 02:31:06 PMClercius was 32 of 40, with 11 yd average and 1 td. Woli was 33 of 47 with a 12.2 avg and 1 td.
Clercius had 10 games where he did not drop a ball that was thrown at him.
As a rookie.
Decent hands? I'd hate to see what someone would have to do to be considered as having good or great hands.
Yes, he needs time to learn the scramble rules and have them become as second nature as the Woli/Zac duo had after 5 years. The Mafia obviously thinks he can do that.
Anxious to see what he can do after a full year under his belt. With a FT role on the O, will he still play teams?
Stats. are stats, but if Woli would have been healthy for the GC 100% he would have started in front of Clercius, still I agree Clercius is the future and Woli was the past.
Woli had luck on his side as it's questionable whether he would have had a CFL career if it wasn't for his random tie to Canadian citizenship. As a rookie Import receiver competing against the best, if even invited to tryout, he's likely cut as TCF and never heard from again.
Quote from: theaardvark on March 10, 2025, 02:31:06 PMClercius was 32 of 40, with 11 yd average and 1 td. Woli was 33 of 47 with a 12.2 avg and 1 td.
Raw stats mean nothing when Woli was injured most of the season. What was the per game stats?
Quote from: theaardvark on March 10, 2025, 02:31:06 PMDecent hands? I'd hate to see what someone would have to do to be considered as having good or great hands.
By hands I meant the Burnham/Kenny ability to catch anything within an 5 yard radius of where their body is located when the ball arrives. We haven't seen Clercius make a single diving or gumby catch.
Yes, he seems to make the catches thrown to the right spot. Yes, he seems to hang on, and seems to be able to take punishment. That is all good.
But no one would say he has "great hands" like we always said about Burnham.
At least, not yet.
We can be optimistic that he maintains his current level and adds some circus to it. My point was even Woli had a few circus catches over his career: some @IGF to great applause!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 10, 2025, 03:20:43 PMStats. are stats, but if Woli would have been healthy for the GC 100% he would have started in front of Clercius, still I agree Clercius is the future and Woli was the past.
Woli had luck on his side as it's questionable whether he would have had a CFL career if it wasn't for his random tie to Canadian citizenship. As a rookie Import receiver competing against the best, if even invited to tryout, he's likely cut as TCF and never heard from again.
Personally i think its for the best had we kept Woli O'SHea's MO is to play the veteran, and CLercius would have had limited reps. Clercius can be real good if given the reps.
There's no doubt Woli was a favourite amongst fans and teammates, but injuries and age have caught up to him, just like they did with BA and AB. Its tough to move on and make the transition, but its an unfortunate fact of life in pro sports.
Quote from: dd on March 11, 2025, 04:41:26 PMThere's no doubt Woli was a favourite amongst fans and teammates, but injuries and age have caught up to him, just like they did with BA and AB. Its tough to move on and make the transition, but its an unfortunate fact of life in pro sports.
Yeah, all of that is true. For every decision like this taken it's a risk analysis. The real question becomes whether we add a player that gives us a younger, more SMS friendly depth player.
There are always lots of moving parts. Free agent acquisitions, ratio considerations and trade possibilities. Time will tell whether the right decision was made. Hindsight is always 100%.
I wouldn't have been upset in retaining Woli but understand the other factors. It's too bad in the sense of fan favourite player no longer with the team. However, rosters tend to have about a 30% turnover each off season. That includes starters, depth and favourites.
Quote from: Blue In BC on March 11, 2025, 04:59:38 PMYeah, all of that is true. For every decision like this taken it's a risk analysis. The real question becomes whether we add a player that gives us a younger, more SMS friendly depth player.
There are always lots of moving parts. Free agent acquisitions, ratio considerations and trade possibilities. Time will tell whether the right decision was made. Hindsight is always 100%.
I wouldn't have been upset in retaining Woli but understand the other factors. It's too bad in the sense of fan favourite player no longer with the team. However, rosters tend to have about a 30% turnover each off season. That includes starters, depth and favourites.
Football is not a game that allows players to finish their careers off with storybook endings very often, Walters has been lethal at cutting short playing career of many great players. He slammed the door shut on Dressler, Matt Nichols, Darvin Adams, Harris, Medlock, Jeffcoat, Bailey, Bighill, BA, and now Woli. For Willy, Jake and Stanley the chopping block awaits if they hang around too long. Of course some carried on with other teams for brief interludes but none ever returned to the form they established as Bombers, except maybe Marc Liegghio! :D .
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 11, 2025, 06:29:05 PMFootball is not a game that allows players to finish their careers off with storybook endings very often, Walters has been lethal at cutting short playing career of many great players.
This is so true. I always thought Can Mafia as more of a "nice guy" group -- KW comes off in pressers as such a quiet guy -- but they are pretty ruthless with the cuts. Way more than I could ever be!!
I get it, but man that must be hard. And it leaves a lot of sour tastes in player mouths, especially coupled with the "no / low contact" approach we hear about so often.
That said, I've never heard of it being any "better" in other clubs, so I guess it's what players expect league-wide. It's a horrible industry if you stand back and look at it through just this lens!
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 11, 2025, 06:29:05 PMHe slammed the door shut on Dressler, Matt Nichols, Darvin Adams, Harris, Medlock, Jeffcoat, Bailey, Bighill, BA, and now Woli.
By that logic, every other GM who chooses not to offer their free agents a new contract is slamming the door shut on those players...? I disagree with that interpretation. The reality is this is just the nature of the business in pro sports. The Canadian Mafia is no exception from what I can tell, but this organization does seem by and large to treat its players as well any in the CFL.
Walters' job -
like eight other GMs in this league - is to put together an optimal roster in terms of talent and depth. Those are complicated decisions, which means it's sometimes prudent to move on from certain players. And that includes long-time veterans, fan favourites, and even "face of the franchise" types who are simply past their before before date.
Of all those players you listed, I think Jeffcoat was the most puzzling decision. I don't know what took place in private between the two parties but I think he should've been retained. The rest seemed like sensible moves at the time.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 12, 2025, 02:55:24 AMThis is so true. I always thought Can Mafia as more of a "nice guy" group -- KW comes off in pressers as such a quiet guy -- but they are pretty ruthless with the cuts. Way more than I could ever be!!
I get it, but man that must be hard. And it leaves a lot of sour tastes in player mouths, especially coupled with the "no / low contact" approach we hear about so often.
That said, I've never heard of it being any "better" in other clubs, so I guess it's what players expect league-wide. It's a horrible industry if you stand back and look at it through just this lens!
It's always been the case that O'Shea plays the role of "good cop" and Walters plays the "bad cop" in the organization, he doesn't get close to the players and that's why none of them ever speak of him. He's said a few times cutting players is the hardest part of the job and perhaps that's why the communication at the end suffers, nobody wants to do it.
I read an article a long time ago that tied pro sports to slavery in theory, in that they treated players as property that could be bartered or sold and the college system was the plantation that prepared the athlete, it was an interesting proposition that used valid reasoning. Don't think I could find it now as the magazine I read it in was so old it was printed on paper!
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on March 12, 2025, 01:58:16 PMBy that logic, every other GM who chooses not to offer their free agents a new contract is slamming the door shut on those players...? I disagree with that interpretation. The reality is this is just the nature of the business in pro sports. The Canadian Mafia is no exception from what I can tell, but this organization does seem by and large to treat its players as well any in the CFL.
Walters' job - like eight other GMs in this league - is to put together an optimal roster in terms of talent and depth. Those are complicated decisions, which means it's sometimes prudent to move on from certain players. And that includes long-time veterans, fan favourites, and even "face of the franchise" types who are simply past their before before date.
Of all those players you listed, I think Jeffcoat was the most puzzling decision. I don't know what took place in private between the two parties but I think he should've been retained. The rest seemed like sensible moves at the time.
In hindsight I think both Jeffcoat and Grant got lost in the wash when they were trying to re-sign Lawler, Brady and Schoen. That process took a long time and left a few players hanging while they sorted it out, by the time Walters got back on track most of the money he earmarked for others was already gone. That was the "bad news" fallout from the "good news" of signing all 3 stars.
I didn't like how they abandoned Dressler, he was still a very productive receiver and I thought he deserved a much better ending. Turns out he was the first of many that received the same treatment.
I guess the GM job is no different than any other boss job in a smaller organization were they can't afford to pay an underling to handle the dirty work.
(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA1AIzSb.img?w=534&h=356&m=6&x=437&y=231&s=321&d=321)
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 12, 2025, 03:19:26 PMI didn't like how they abandoned Dressler, he was still a very productive receiver and I thought he deserved a much better ending. Turns out he was the first of many that received the same treatment.
How did they abandon him? ???
Not even the Riders offered him a contract after that.
Signing old veterans who have been injured is all about risk management, do you think they can perform at their pre-injury level, yes, then sign them, no, then don't sign them. Walters reminds me of Brad Pitt in Moneyball....he wants players who can perform/get on base and will make up a lineup of guys who will get on base for him vs pay the big bucks for someone who more times than not, underperforms. He figures Woli, Bighill and Alexander aren't going to get on base this year due to injuries and I can't argue with him, why take the risk, go with younger and cheaper talent that's going to be healthy. Nobody wins anything from the tub.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 11, 2025, 02:23:25 AMRaw stats mean nothing when Woli was injured most of the season. What was the per game stats?
By hands I meant the Burnham/Kenny ability to catch anything within an 5 yard radius of where their body is located when the ball arrives. We haven't seen Clercius make a single diving or gumby catch.
Yes, he seems to make the catches thrown to the right spot. Yes, he seems to hang on, and seems to be able to take punishment. That is all good.
But no one would say he has "great hands" like we always said about Burnham.
At least, not yet.
We can be optimistic that he maintains his current level and adds some circus to it. My point was even Woli had a few circus catches over his career: some @IGF to great applause!
Circus catches are one thing, catching 80% of your targets is another.
Good hands means not dropping catchable balls. Not sure if you are saying that a reciever needs to catch uncatchable balls, or that a QB has to be able to trust them with throws that are harder to make for him to have "good hands".
Clercius has been making the catches he's been asked to make. Not sure you can ask more from a receiver.
Its a fine balance between being a nice guy and being a businessman.
Players and coaches are all hired to be fired. You are a valuable member of the team until you aren't, either by your play or your price.
When the team needs to move on to a better or cheaper player, hard decisions are made.
I don't think the Mafia do it any more cutthroat or any more callous than other teams, in fact, I think they may be on the more family side. Telling players early that they have moved on, and won't be getting a contract offer may sound heartless, but it gives the player the opportunity to seek another situation, or decide to move to their post football life.
Giving guys deals that are insulting, or even generous deals and then cutting them in camp is much more nasty in my books. I think the Mafia are more a "rip the bandaid off" kind of group, and rarely say a bad word about a player or situation upon parting.
As another poster mentioned, most of the players we have moved on from for deterioration of play have not signed elsewhere, or had very little success after. Players we have moved on from because of price or available replacements who are better/cheaper have made contributions elsewhere, but rarely have we :missed" them.
The exception was Grant, who clearly confounded the Mafia with his lack of communication. Yes, we missed him, and yes, I think the Mafia undervalued him because of the position he plays and the pay normally associated with that spot. Had they been more generous in an initial offer at the exit interview, he might be a Bomber today. But that just doesn't appear to be in their playbook, and hindsight is 20/20.
He is one that fell through the cracks, but in general, I think our results show that this management group knows what it is doing, from scouting new talent, to signing players to good value contracts in FA, to retaining players on reasonable deals through club culture.
I like what they do and how they do it, and hope they continue making the hard decisions correctly.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on March 12, 2025, 03:21:51 PMHow did they abandon him? ???
Not even the Riders offered him a contract after that.
The Bombers didn't offer Dressler a contract, at the time I thought HOF level players deserved more consideration, but now with Bighill I see that isn't the case.
Back story on Dressler, the Riders screwed him out of deferred wages, when he came back from the NFL he agreed to return to Sask. for much less than the Argos offered. Taman promised to make it up in the 2nd and 3rd year and Jones reneged on the contract and cut him when he wouldn't renegotiate. Cautionary tale, Dressler thought he'd be a Rider for life and Taman was fired 2 years after winning a GC.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on March 12, 2025, 01:58:16 PMOf all those players you listed, I think Jeffcoat was the most puzzling decision. I don't know what took place in private between the two parties but I think he should've been retained. The rest seemed like sensible moves at the time.
I think Jeffcoat was the
easiest decision because he literally was in the tub every single season.
Some other teams have figured out how to make half-season-injured superstars work on their roster. Mafia clearly haven't, or don't want to. KW doesn't want the hassle of spreadsheeting out the 6GIR SMS complications for these players.
It's kind of like the 23-snaps FAKENAT stuff. Mafia doesn't even mess with it. We're like the kings of KISS, sometimes to our detriment(?).
We could have made an always-injured Jeffcoat fit on the roster for 1-2 more years, for sure, especially if he agreed to no signing bonus (for SMS reasons). But we would have had to pro-actively plan for shielding the SMS
and finagled another high quality DE to play the remainder of the games. We just didn't want to be bothered. WFC is very inflexible in this way.
Quote from: theaardvark on March 12, 2025, 05:43:30 PMIts a fine balance between being a nice guy and being a businessman.
Players and coaches are all hired to be fired. You are a valuable member of the team until you aren't, either by your play or your price.
When the team needs to move on to a better or cheaper player, hard decisions are made.
I don't think the Mafia do it any more cutthroat or any more callous than other teams, in fact, I think they may be on the more family side. Telling players early that they have moved on, and won't be getting a contract offer may sound heartless, but it gives the player the opportunity to seek another situation, or decide to move to their post football life.
Giving guys deals that are insulting, or even generous deals and then cutting them in camp is much more nasty in my books. I think the Mafia are more a "rip the bandaid off" kind of group, and rarely say a bad word about a player or situation upon parting.
As another poster mentioned, most of the players we have moved on from for deterioration of play have not signed elsewhere, or had very little success after. Players we have moved on from because of price or available replacements who are better/cheaper have made contributions elsewhere, but rarely have we :missed" them.
The exception was Grant, who clearly confounded the Mafia with his lack of communication. Yes, we missed him, and yes, I think the Mafia undervalued him because of the position he plays and the pay normally associated with that spot. Had they been more generous in an initial offer at the exit interview, he might be a Bomber today. But that just doesn't appear to be in their playbook, and hindsight is 20/20.
He is one that fell through the cracks, but in general, I think our results show that this management group knows what it is doing, from scouting new talent, to signing players to good value contracts in FA, to retaining players on reasonable deals through club culture.
I like what they do and how they do it, and hope they continue making the hard decisions correctly.
While we don't know how things go down, everything you say here is the exact opposite of how we've been told they let their veteran players go.
Every single one, except perhaps Woli, spoke of being left hanging without knowing what the Bombers' plans were.
Quote from: theaardvark on March 12, 2025, 05:28:12 PMCircus catches are one thing, catching 80% of your targets is another.
Good hands means not dropping catchable balls. Not sure if you are saying that a reciever needs to catch uncatchable balls, or that a QB has to be able to trust them with throws that are harder to make for him to have "good hands".
Clercius has been making the catches he's been asked to make. Not sure you can ask more from a receiver.
Ya, I think Clercius will be a good one. Most physical Nat WR since Cory Watson.
Quote from: Jesse on March 12, 2025, 09:47:51 PMWhile we don't know how things go down, everything you say here is the exact opposite of how we've been told they let their veteran players go.
Every single one, except perhaps Woli, spoke of being left hanging without knowing what the Bombers' plans were.
You beat me to it. They are left hanging there thinking they are getting their normal re-up call/contract and then days pass, weeks pass, crickets.
I don't think Woli was an exception. He said in one of his recent pressers he was very surprised when a new WFC offer didn't show up. As were most of the rest of us fans.
Quote from: dd on March 12, 2025, 04:36:32 PMWalters reminds me of Brad Pitt in Moneyball....he wants players who can perform/get on base and will make up a lineup of guys who will get on base for him vs pay the big bucks for someone who more times than not, underperforms.
I often think of that movie in terms of CFL. I bet the CFL GMs/scouts are much like the "old" ones in that movie. I always wonder what a stats nerd could do if given the ability to shape a roster, and work things like the 23-snaps FAKENAT rule...
This year may be the first season in a while where KW is taking more of a hire "get on base" guys instead of the sluggers. Our new batch of RECs especially is indicative of that. It'll be an interesting year!
Quote from: theaardvark on March 12, 2025, 05:43:30 PMI don't think the Mafia do it any more cutthroat or any more callous than other teams, in fact, I think they may be on the more family side.
This is true. I don't mean to single out WFC. I'm sure there are different GM styles in play, but I don't think any ex-player would say we were abnormally abusive or neglectful.
Quote from: theaardvark on March 12, 2025, 05:43:30 PMAs another poster mentioned, most of the players we have moved on from for deterioration of play have not signed elsewhere, or had very little success after. Players we have moved on from because of price or available replacements who are better/cheaper have made contributions elsewhere, but rarely have we :missed" them.
Also true. We've had a very good record of getting rid of guys who then go on to be injured, retired, or produce very little for another team. The exception would be OL (and QB), but they are a special case.
We've shed many DL, LB, DB, RB, REC who go on to do not much of anything. Out of every 3-5 we drop, maybe 1 continues to have success.
Some of Buono must have rubbed off on KW. In some ways we may be even better at it! Buono dropped AH33 when he was in his prime. We dropped him when he was at the end.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 12, 2025, 07:57:17 PMThe Bombers didn't offer Dressler a contract, at the time I thought HOF level players deserved more consideration, but now with Bighill I see that isn't the case.
Not just HOF players, but probably RoH players (who are much rarer)! The first, even before Biggie's cut, was AH33. That was a tough cut to swallow, even though it was probably correct.
Too bad the CFL can't have some "final 1-2 years" carve out for franchise players so teams can keep on an aging guy to maybe take half snaps or start half the games. Like an extra $100k off the SMS only for a 5+ year same-team vet, and only 1 player a year. Maybe they get a free dress as a bonus DI too!
I would have given anything to see AH33 play that last year here instead of TOR, even if Brady was getting 80% of the snaps. We probably would have won that 3rd cup, even AH was just dressed as rah-rah support.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 12, 2025, 07:57:17 PMThe Bombers didn't offer Dressler a contract, at the time I thought HOF level players deserved more consideration, but now with Bighill I see that isn't the case.
Yeah, the team advised him ahead of free agency that they were going in another direction and they wouldn't be offering him a new contract.
That doesn't fit the definition of abandon - at all. As is the case with the other players you listed.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 12, 2025, 09:42:15 PMI think Jeffcoat was the easiest decision because he literally was in the tub every single season.
He still played 2/3 or more of every season he was here. I'd have taken that over what we had to watch with the D-line last year. Jefferson had very little support on the opposite end.
I can only speculate Walters wasn't interested in offering him a contract without conditions/incentives related to his durability. Whatever happened, it's still a shame to see his career end the way it did; I thought he deserved better.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on March 13, 2025, 11:25:23 AMYeah, the team advised him ahead of free agency that they were going in another direction and they wouldn't be offering him a new contract.
That doesn't fit
the definition of abandon - at all. As is the case with the other players you listed.
He still played 2/3 or more of every season he was here. I'd have taken that over what we had to watch with the D-line last year. Jefferson had very little support on the opposite end.
I can only speculate Walters wasn't interested in offering him a contract without conditions/incentives related to his durability. Whatever happened, it's still a shame to see his career end the way it did; I thought he deserved better.
Walters said he intended to bring back Jeffcoat in one interview, unfortunately he had to wait until he finished up with Lawler, Brady and Schoen. That process took longer than expected meanwhile Jeffcoat has said he was left hanging. By the time Walters reviewed his budget he probably couldn't make Jeffcoat a respectful offer so he gambled on Haba and Garbutt to fill the gap.
As I recall Dressler was left hanging without communication as well, he wasn't sure
what his future was. It does not seem like O'Shea discusses the direction the team will be going in his year end player meetings, probably because they don't make those decision until the season is over.
In the case of Jeffcoat, yes he is injured often, but heck, he's a game changer...I would have brought him back and pulled him from games that were in the bag to minimize the wear and tear on his body and risk of injury. When he was in our lineup, our pass rush was second to none. If he was in the GC game last year, it would have been a totally different game. Arbuckle would have been dead, instead of having all day to make his dink and dunk plays and win the cup
Quote from: dd on March 13, 2025, 04:28:48 PMIn the case of Jeffcoat, yes he is injured often, but heck, he's a game changer...I would have brought him back and pulled him from games that were in the bag to minimize the wear and tear on his body and risk of injury. When he was in our lineup, our pass rush was second to none. If he was in the GC game last year, it would have been a totally different game. Arbuckle would have been dead, instead of having all day to make his dink and dunk plays and win the cup
Jeffcoat, when healthy, was a dominant force. The games he "played" were not always him at 100%. If he had been able to play more and healthier, no doubt he'd still be in the league. The fact that after he became a FA he did not sign elsewhere, either he only wanted to play for us, or he didn't have any other offers...
When we moved on from Jeffcoat, we have a number of promising young DE's coming along. So promising, they all have found new contracts in free agency. So its not like we didn't have options. And we have new DE coming in again, and a durable veteran as well (just FYI, Vaughters first NFL sack was Tom Brady).
Our young prospects were no where near as effective as JJ on the edge.when JJ was in with Willie you had 3 seconds to get rid of the ball or you were dead. Sometimes they sacked the Qb before the OL got in their stance!! They were phenomenal. This year, QBs had so much time to make plays it was ridiculous and that cost us big time in the end
At the time both our ends were aging so we decided to continue with Jefferson ( rightly so) and try to develop for the future with Garbutt and Habs, Unfortunately neither really stepped up so we've gone back to a vet like Vaughters. I still would have liked to kept Garbutt as well, unless they think Persons is a better option
Quote from: Pete on March 13, 2025, 09:11:46 PMAt the time both our ends were aging so we decided to continue with Jefferson ( rightly so) and try to develop for the future with Garbutt and Habs, Unfortunately neither really stepped up so we've gone back to a vet like Vaughters. I still would have liked to kept Garbutt as well, unless they think Persons is a better option
At this point Jason Persons is just another name, and not a very big one for a DE at 6'-2" 233 lbs, more a LB size. In Garbutt's recent interview on the Ti-Cat network he complained about how difficult it was for a 250 lb. DE to take on a 300 lb. O-lineman.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 13, 2025, 11:32:10 PMAt this point Jason Persons is just another name, and not a very big one for a DE at 6'-2" 233 lbs, more a LB size. In Garbutt's recent interview on the Ti-Cat network he complained about how difficult it was for a 250 lb. DE to take on a 300 lb. O-lineman.
It's not just a matter of height and weight, it is also about strength and dexterity.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 13, 2025, 11:32:10 PMAt this point Jason Persons is just another name, and not a very big one for a DE at 6'-2" 233 lbs, more a LB size. In Garbutt's recent interview on the Ti-Cat network he complained about how difficult it was for a 250 lb. DE to take on a 300 lb. O-lineman.
He's only 12 lbs lighter than Jefferson but 5" shorter, so he's stockier in that sense. Strength, speed and agility are all measurements that come into play. I agree he does somewhat seem more of a LB type, but the Bombers have utilized similar players in both 3 and 4 man fronts. His size is about the same as some of our other LB's.
So we'll see how he is used in TC but I agree we'll see him more as a LB candidate. We're fairly deep at that position so barring injury I expect he's initially fighting for a spot on the PR.
Quote from: Blue In BC on March 14, 2025, 02:55:27 PMHe's only 12 lbs lighter than Jefferson but 5" shorter, so he's stockier in that sense. Strength, speed and agility are all measurements that come into play. I agree he does somewhat seem more of a LB type, but the Bombers have utilized similar players in both 3 and 4 man fronts. His size is about the same as some of our other LB's.
So we'll see how he is used in TC but I agree we'll see him more as a LB candidate. We're fairly deep at that position so barring injury I expect he's initially fighting for a spot on the PR.
Nope, looks like he's strictly a pass-rush specialist, maybe he'll be the next Kwaku Boateng, small but fast.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 14, 2025, 03:21:27 PMNope, looks like he's strictly a pass-rush specialist, maybe he'll be the next Kwaku Boateng, small but fast.
And yet the US listed him as a LB. Different game, narrower field doesn't necessarily translate to the CFL. Faster game that is more pass oriented than the NFL.
However as I said he's only 12 lbs lighter than Jefferson. Speed can be a great equalizer but as we know Jefferson's height is it's own advantage.
While we know " positional labels " can be deceptive, even the Bombers list him as a LB.
We'll see how this works out.
EDIT: Definition.
Players considered to be edge rushers are usually 4–3 defensive ends or 3–4 outside linebackers. Note that 3–4 outside linebackers often act as an extension of the defensive line, in that they will attack the offensive tackles or blocking tight ends on the majority of their snaps under a majority of 3–4 schemes, though it is not uncommon to see them drop back and play a more traditional 4–3 linebacker role as well.[2]
One reason the word "edge" is used in the term "edge rusher" is that edge often refers to the area outside of offensive tackles, but within a couple of yards of the line of scrimmage. While other positions will rarely be referred to as edge rushers, other than 4–3 defensive ends and 3–4 outside linebackers, it is common for defensive backs, traditional linebackers, and even defensive tackles to occasionally play the position on a play-to-play basis.[3]