Blue Bombers Forum

In a few days Free Agency Frenzy begins - February 11, 2024 at 12 noon ET.  The CFL Free Agency thread is here for reference. https://www.cfl.ca/fa25/

Blue Bomber player signings will be announced and discussed here.

Tomorrow (February 11th) is a big 2025 day in the CFL with several of top ranked players moving to other teams.  Here is a pre-amble to some of the expected moves.

https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/06/5-storylines-to-watch-in-free-agency/

LS Benson re-signs: https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/11/bombers-extend-national-long-snapper-mike-benson/

WINNIPEG, MB., February 11, 2025 –  The Winnipeg Blue Bombers today announce the club has agreed to terms on a one-year contract with Canadian receiver Gavin Cobb.

Cobb (5-9, 170; University of Manitoba; born: January 28, 1998, in Victoria, B.C.) joins the Blue Bombers after spending the last two years with the Edmonton Elks and returns to Winnipeg where he played his college ball with the Bisons.

WINNIPEG, MB., February 11, 2025 –  The Winnipeg Blue Bombers today announce the club has agreed to terms on a one-year contract with American receiver Jerreth Sterns.

Sterns (5-9, 175; Western Kentucky/Houston Baptist; Born: July 1, 1999, in Waxahachie, TX) joins the Blue Bombers after spending the last two seasons with the Saskatchewan Roughriders.

Sterns finished 2024 with 39 catches for 492 yards and two touchdowns and in 23 games over two years with the Roughriders had 83 receptions for 941 yards and three touchdowns.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 11, 2025, 03:33:47 PMLS Benson re-signs: https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/11/bombers-extend-national-long-snapper-mike-benson/

With Ian Leroux coming back to TC this season, I didn't think the Bombers would be resigning 38 year old Mike Benson.

Quote from: Pigskin on February 11, 2025, 04:27:56 PMWith Ian Leroux coming back to TC this season, I didn't think the Bombers would be resigning 38 year old Mike Benson.

I thought the same thing. That said Benson can still play. Leroux may start the season on the PR depending on what he shows in TC and pre season.

Waiting until day one of free agency before re-signing him seems a little odd.

Quote from: Pigskin on February 11, 2025, 04:27:56 PMWith Ian Leroux coming back to TC this season, I didn't think the Bombers would be resigning 38 year old Mike Benson.

Who better to mentor Leroux than Benson.

Bombers sign DB Hagerty: https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/11/josh-hagerty-joins-bombers/

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 11, 2025, 04:46:42 PMI thought the same thing. That said Benson can still play. Leroux may start the season on the PR depending on what he shows in TC and pre season.

Waiting until day one of free agency before re-signing him seems a little odd.

Maybe paying Benson to work with Leroux for a couple of weeks and show him the ropes, can't see much sense not going with the younger guy.

Bombers sign RB/RET Logan: https://www.cfl.ca/2025/02/11/bombers-sign-running-back-returner-peyton-logan/

Yawn! Kyle doesn't want to win the cup. Zero big name signings. We are gonna get smoked. Us and the Stamps in the battle of the basement.

Zach didn't sound too enthusiastic about coming back, and we have no real backup. And Kyle and. Oshea are in the final year of their contract. Oh what a bad day. The big news of the day is the former alouette and bison grad leaving Montreal to come to Winnioeg.

Is this good enuff?

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 11, 2025, 04:46:42 PMI thought the same thing. That said Benson can still play. Leroux may start the season on the PR depending on what he shows in TC and pre season.

Waiting until day one of free agency before re-signing him seems a little odd.

Quote from: Pigskin on February 11, 2025, 04:27:56 PMWith Ian Leroux coming back to TC this season, I didn't think the Bombers would be resigning 38 year old Mike Benson.

A critical position to trust to a very good vet.  We did the same things before Benson.  Continuity at this position is critical.  As BG84 says, great mentor for the next gen.  Good signing as excepted. 

Quote from: DM83 on February 12, 2025, 01:42:35 AMYawn! Kyle doesn't want to win the cup. Zero big name signings. We are gonna get smoked. Us and the Stamps in the battle of the basement.

Zach didn't sound too enthusiastic about coming back, and we have no real backup. And Kyle and. Oshea are in the final year of their contract. Oh what a bad day. The big news of the day is the former alouette and bison grad leaving Montreal to come to Winnioeg.

Is this good enuff?

Ya, not much to talk about or get excited about these days. Looking at what other teams have done and the talent they have acquired, some of it from us, closes the gap between the haves and the have nots, both east and west. Hamilton signed a bunch of talent, Ottawa picked up a couple of good peices to their puzzle, Montreal has a rookie starting Qb, which could go good or bad, Fajardo is BACKUP in Edmonton after winning a Grey Cup a year ago, Edmonton took Ford from us, Calgary signed VAJ, we went for decent but not all star signings, we'll see how this plays out but for once I don't see a clear cut favourite to run the table.

Quote from: DM83 on February 12, 2025, 01:42:35 AMYawn! Kyle doesn't want to win the cup. Zero big name signings. We are gonna get smoked. Us and the Stamps in the battle of the basement.

Zach didn't sound too enthusiastic about coming back, and we have no real backup. And Kyle and. Oshea are in the final year of their contract. Oh what a bad day. The big news of the day is the former alouette and bison grad leaving Montreal to come to Winnioeg.

Is this good enuff?

This post has a hint if panic in it's tone imo.

Bombers are in a good place, with some holes to fill.  Fake news about Zach imo.  I believe we will be average at bare minimum (better if we fill a few more holes).  We have signed some important pieces and more will come.  Our backup QBs are as deep as we have had in years, again fake news imo.  Another good day to be a Bomber fan.

Last year we seen a lot of parity in the league and that will continue imo.  Not worried but I want more depth at OL, DL, DB and Cdns.

Quote from: DM83 on February 12, 2025, 01:42:35 AMYawn! Kyle doesn't want to win the cup. Zero big name signings. We are gonna get smoked. Us and the Stamps in the battle of the basement.

Zach didn't sound too enthusiastic about coming back, and we have no real backup. And Kyle and. Oshea are in the final year of their contract. Oh what a bad day. The big news of the day is the former alouette and bison grad leaving Montreal to come to Winnioeg.

Is this good enuff?

This is what irrational, baseless panic looks like.

Quote from: dd on February 12, 2025, 02:56:30 AMYa, not much to talk about or get excited about these days. Looking at what other teams have done and the talent they have acquired, some of it from us, closes the gap between the haves and the have nots, both east and west. Hamilton signed a bunch of talent, Ottawa picked up a couple of good peices to their puzzle, Montreal has a rookie starting Qb, which could go good or bad, Fajardo is BACKUP in Edmonton after winning a Grey Cup a year ago, Edmonton took Ford from us, Calgary signed VAJ, we went for decent but not all star signings, we'll see how this plays out but for once I don't see a clear cut favourite to run the table.

We had and still have a very good roster. The bad teams spent big money in free agency while we maintained our core, moved forward with previously new pieces who proved themselves to be worthy, and just need to fill in some losses with new faces. Why fix what ain't broken? Of course it's not surprising that loser teams are shoring up to trying and get better by making big splashes. For many years Hamilton was hailed the winner of free agency and they haven't won a Grey Cup since the OJ trial.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 12, 2025, 01:15:15 PMThis is what irrational, baseless panic looks like.

Yawning isn't what panic looks like. 

Quote from: TBURGESS on February 12, 2025, 02:49:56 PMYawning isn't what panic looks like.

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNDkxdGdmdXhqcHU3ZnEzeXhvamMyMW56c3ZpaWZueHc4MnBzZTJzbyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/mWMML2LQBsj8k/giphy.gif)

You should probably read the post I quoted in its entirety before you pull out of one your contrarian cards.

Quote from: DM83 on February 12, 2025, 01:42:35 AMYawn! Kyle doesn't want to win the cup. Zero big name signings. We are gonna get smoked. Us and the Stamps in the battle of the basement.

Zach didn't sound too enthusiastic about coming back, and we have no real backup. And Kyle and. Oshea are in the final year of their contract. Oh what a bad day. The big news of the day is the former alouette and bison grad leaving Montreal to come to Winnioeg.

Is this good enuff?

So, you are suggesting that coackes/GMs in the final year of contracts phone it in?  How absurd.  If they are angling for an extention, they do everything they can.  If they are angling for a move, they... do everything they can.

Big signings?  Really?  Its who you sign, from other teams AND your own that yields a roster.  Ask Pinball about keeping his team intact.  Or Rigmaiden.  Look around the league and tell me who kept more of their team together.

https://www.cfl.ca/fa25/

Look over this list, and see which team the word "Extended" is used most on.

5 cup appearances in a row, and we "lost" 3 starting calibre players, while upgrading at many spots.

Your points unsurorisingly make no sense and have no foundation in reality.

Quote from: blue_or_die on February 12, 2025, 01:37:59 PMWe had and still have a very good roster. The bad teams spent big money in free agency while we maintained our core, moved forward with previously new pieces who proved themselves to be worthy, and just need to fill in some losses with new faces. Why fix what ain't broken? Of course it's not surprising that loser teams are shoring up to trying and get better by making big splashes. For many years Hamilton was hailed the winner of free agency and they haven't won a Grey Cup since the OJ trial.

Existing core is eroding somewhat wouldn't you say?  Bighill gone, BA probably gone, Woli, Bailey,Yoshi all key players, question marks along both the O and D-lines, can you define the current core group?

Also be careful labelling opponents as if they're perennial losers, it doesn't take much to upset the apple cart and flip the tables as the Als and Argos have done over the last two seasons. Many impressive upgrades have been made among Western teams and I wouldn't want to bet money on which 2 teams are going to fall short of making the playoffs.

With an expiring QB and no obvious replacement in sight, it might appear to those "losers" that the Bombers are approaching the end of their reign and are a vulnerable team clinging to the coattails of past magic.  It's difficult to get to the top of the mountain, but it's more difficult to remain there.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 12, 2025, 04:13:23 PMIt's difficult to get to the top of the mountain, but it's more difficult to remain there.

And yet, they've done that for four straight seasons, the last of which where they started 0-4. Remember how many had written off the Bombers going into the 2024 campaign? They all got to enjoy hefty servings of crew as a result.

Until the other teams in the division actually do anything on the field, it's the Bombers' crown to lose. Moves on paper in mid-February don't mean much. Look no further than the Ti-Cats who have made big moves in free agency in recent years with basically nothing to show for it. And let's be honest here: most teams are significant QB1 injury from being in tough.

I do agree this team's corps is aging out, which makes management's job trickier to maintain the level of success this team has had the last five years or so. We've seen new faces fill in those key spots quite well, though.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 12, 2025, 04:13:23 PMExisting core is eroding somewhat wouldn't you say?  Bighill gone, BA probably gone, Woli, Bailey,Yoshi all key players, question marks along both the O and D-lines, can you define the current core group?

Also be careful labelling opponents as if they're perennial losers, it doesn't take much to upset the apple cart and flip the tables as the Als and Argos have done over the last two seasons. Many impressive upgrades have been made among Western teams and I wouldn't want to bet money on which 2 teams are going to fall short of making the playoffs.

With an expiring QB and no obvious replacement in sight, it might appear to those "losers" that the Bombers are approaching the end of their reign and are a vulnerable team clinging to the coattails of past magic.  It's difficult to get to the top of the mountain, but it's more difficult to remain there.

You say question marks, but I'd say we're much more settled than going into last season at those position groups.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 12, 2025, 04:27:31 PMAnd yet, they've done that for four straight seasons, the last of which where they started 0-4. Remember how many had written off the Bombers going into the 2024 campaign? They all got to enjoy hefty servings of crew as a result.

Until the other teams in the division actually do anything on the field, it's the Bombers' crown to lose. Moves on paper in mid-February don't mean much. Look no further than the Ti-Cats who have made big moves in free agency in recent years with basically nothing to show for it. And let's be honest here: most teams are significant QB1 injury from being in tough.

I do agree this team's corps is aging out, which makes management's job trickier to maintain the level of success this team has had the last five years or so. We've seen new faces fill in those key spots quite well, though.

The last paragraph nails it, so it's not unreasonable to expect they would be more aggressive in FA for this very reason.  It's baffling what they intend to do with bonus money they have at their disposal, plus losing Lawler, Bighill and Dobson they appear to be spending less on player salaries than they did last season. 

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 12, 2025, 04:41:04 PMThe last paragraph nails it, so it's not unreasonable to expect they would be more aggressive in FA for this very reason.

Aggressive how? Who would you have liked to see targeted yesterday?

Just an observation, 1/3 of all GM's in the league were on the staff of the 2019 GC winning Blue Bombers under Kyle Walters...

Quote from: Jesse on February 12, 2025, 04:35:55 PMYou say question marks, but I'd say we're much more settled than going into last season at those position groups.

Question mark at Safety, question marks on the O-line, as in not set who plays where.

The D-line has the most, Willie, Vaughters and Lawson probably locked in, but can't say either Woods or Adams are starting on the D-line when they decided not to even dress them for the GC, behind Fox, Garbutt and Haba who they let walk away.

FS, 6 different options to win the spot.  Nat and American.

Oline, we have, on the roster from last year, a full oline ready to go.  The best 5 will win out.

Dline, with Vaughters, we have substantially upgraded on the end, and I don't think we've downgraded in the middle, with Lawson back. 

Plus, there are bodies in camp that can be "the next one".  We seem to find them every year.   And there are 3 new sets of eyes seeking them out this year.

Not worried at all.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 12, 2025, 05:21:50 PMOline, we have, on the roster from last year, a full oline ready to go.  The best 5 will win out.

The O line was the fifth ranked in the CFL last season. Some games I feared for Zach. It did not look very good in the Grey Cup.

They have a few American players that did not play. Maybe someone else is coming.

Going with what we had last season doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

The game is won and lost in the trenches.

We need a LG and C for our O line, and we need to upgrade our interior D line to generate pressure on opposing Qb's, our arguably weakest link last year, this is where I'd be spending our newly found SMS money

Quote from: dd on February 12, 2025, 05:44:08 PMThe game is won and lost in the trenches.

We need a LG and C for our O line, and we need to upgrade our interior D line to generate pressure on opposing Qb's, our arguably weakest link last year, this is where I'd be spending our newly found SMS money

We have Eli and Wallace to compete for C, LG as well as draft picks returning, new draft picks, and some Int players both existing and new.  There is a whole lotta beef to choose from.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 12, 2025, 04:51:20 PMAggressive how? Who would you have liked to see targeted yesterday?

There was plenty of player movement and they had the cash, I would have gone harder after a backup QB and improved the D-line, giving them more options than just Vaughters, who no other team chased. Even re-signing Garbutt would have provided security as he wouldn't have cost much.

Quote from: dd on February 12, 2025, 05:44:08 PMThe game is won and lost in the trenches.

We need a LG and C for our O line, and we need to upgrade our interior D line to generate pressure on opposing Qb's, our arguably weakest link last year, this is where I'd be spending our newly found SMS money

I'll add that it's hard to see our very average OL being better this season with our RG and (admitedly ageless) LT being another year older. Perhaps there is a grand plan involving another import or two. If not, this is my biggest concern going into 2025.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 12, 2025, 04:13:23 PMExisting core is eroding somewhat wouldn't you say?  Bighill gone, BA probably gone, Woli, Bailey,Yoshi all key players, question marks along both the O and D-lines, can you define the current core group?

Also be careful labelling opponents as if they're perennial losers, it doesn't take much to upset the apple cart and flip the tables as the Als and Argos have done over the last two seasons. Many impressive upgrades have been made among Western teams and I wouldn't want to bet money on which 2 teams are going to fall short of making the playoffs.

With an expiring QB and no obvious replacement in sight, it might appear to those "losers" that the Bombers are approaching the end of their reign and are a vulnerable team clinging to the coattails of past magic.  It's difficult to get to the top of the mountain, but it's more difficult to remain there.

I wouldn't say we're "eroding" any more than we have each year as each team does in a league of 1-2 year contracts. Bighill was a a major part of the core, for sure, but Tony Jones as his replacement gives little concern based on previous play and especially considering Bighill wouldn't even be available until later this year. I don't consider the third- and fourth-look receivers as part of the core, and we are a year removed from losing Hardrick who unfortunately got injured. Love BA, but it's at the safety position which is where we've hidden medicore Canadians previously (not that I'm advocating for that).

I feel like every year we talk about "how scary" another bottom dweller became after FA but more often than not, it doesn't amount to anything. We will absolutely be challenged this season, but I wouldn't tie it to some big FA splashes. I'm also having a hard time figuring out who I would have gone after that would have really helped us other than maybe Ceresna or something.

I think if BA doesn't come back, you might see Griffin get some reps there. Griffin has played safety in the past.

Both the DL and OL need some work. It will be interesting to see if Wallace or Eli can replace Dobson. Or, do we have to go with 3 Americans on the OL. We also should have (N) Vlahogiannis and Kalra coming back for there second TC. Randolph, Vanterpool, in there second year with the team. And, new comers Garcia 6'7' 305, and Walker 6'6" 305.

A guy like Landon Rice, (37) at the right $$ might be a nice insurance policy us. 

Quote from: blue_or_die on February 12, 2025, 06:47:25 PMI wouldn't say we're "eroding" any more than we have each year as each team does in a league of 1-2 year contracts. Bighill was a a major part of the core, for sure, but Tony Jones as his replacement gives little concern based on previous play and especially considering Bighill wouldn't even be available until later this year. I don't consider the third- and fourth-look receivers as part of the core, and we are a year removed from losing Hardrick who unfortunately got injured. Love BA, but it's at the safety position which is where we've hidden medicore Canadians previously (not that I'm advocating for that).

I feel like every year we talk about "how scary" another bottom dweller became after FA but more often than not, it doesn't amount to anything. We will absolutely be challenged this season, but I wouldn't tie it to some big FA splashes. I'm also having a hard time figuring out who I would have gone after that would have really helped us other than maybe Ceresna or something.

I don't see the core on a positional basis, to me it's more who the leaders are on the team.  Bighill leaves, Tony Jones replaces him at MLB but not as a team leader.  Same with with the loss of BA, he leaves big shoes for a rookie or newcomer to  step into.  I think it takes the right personality plus a fair amount of CFL experience and game knowledge to become a leader.  Kramdi certainly exhibits that potential.

Quote from: Pigskin on February 12, 2025, 06:52:53 PMI think if BA doesn't come back, you might see Griffin get some reps there. Griffin has played safety in the past.

Both the DL and OL need some work. It will be interesting to see if Wallace or Eli can replace Dobson. Or, do we have to go with 3 Americans on the OL. We also should have (N) Vlahogiannis and Kalra coming back for there second TC. Randolph, Vanterpool, in there second year with the team. And, new comers Garcia 6'7' 305, and Walker 6'6" 305.

A guy like Landon Rice, (37) at the right $$ might be a nice insurance policy us.

Still wrapping my head around Dobson weighing in at 340 lbs, but if you look at him you can believe it it, he's huge.

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/static.3downnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/2024-07-19-3Down-MichaelScraper-127-1068x712.jpg)

Other teams use free agency to fill needs we use it to fill holes, With the exception of Vaughters and maybe logan. And we certainly have needs although some will turn a blind eye including Walters
  We need a strong safety,and help on offensive line but dont want to compete with other teams to do so.  De is another spot
Disappointing

In Canadian football there is no such thing as a strong safety.

Quote from: DM83 on February 12, 2025, 08:00:26 PMIn Canadian football there is no such thing as a strong safety.
[/quote

Quote from: DM83 on February 12, 2025, 08:00:26 PMIn Canadian football there is no such thing as a strong safety.

You calling Metchie & Dequoy weak?

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 12, 2025, 07:31:34 PMI don't see the core on a positional basis, to me it's more who the leaders are on the team.  Bighill leaves, Tony Jones replaces him at MLB but not as a team leader.  Same with with the loss of BA, he leaves big shoes for a rookie or newcomer to  step into.  I think it takes the right personality plus a fair amount of CFL experience and game knowledge to become a leader.  Kramdi certainly exhibits that potential.

That's fair. I think Zach, Brady, Demski, Big Stan, Paddy and I'd even throw Schoen in there offer plenty of vet leadership qualities for offense, while Willie, Fatboi, Wilson (possibly kept around at least in part for this reason) and maybe Kramdi (like you said) along with Nichols (been around a while now and leads by example) do good to rep the D. You're right that the complexion of the team identity isn't exactly consistent though, but hey, pretty good for the CFL.

I see Logan as a definite upgrade and Vaughters as a possible upgrade. I like the Jones signing too.

The rest are under the "Might be good" column.

We were the 3rd best team last year, I don't see us moving up on that position this year considering the player losses we've had.

Edmonton won Free Agency, we'll see how that plays out in the season, but I expect them to win way more games than last year.

Calgary with Adams will be better. Riders and BC about the same.

lol! Nope those guys are super.  Evidently the Bombers did not think so.
Dime a dozen, I have said.  Evidently it's a rule not to re-sign top DBs.
Arguably, the. DBs we  don't re-sign don't. Do as good elsewhere.
Same as LBs. All those crazy guys who fly around, and can shut down any offense are amazing to watch.

Bombers are OK......just need a coordinator who wants to play aggressively, not giving a nervous guy like Arbuckle time to throw. ......bringing up bad memories.

I don't see the Bombers competing defensively.  And then with an unproven O line at left guard, and a never were players at receiver, could be a good time for Zac to retire.  Anybody think we make the grey cup?

Quote from: Pete on February 12, 2025, 07:40:22 PMOther teams use free agency to fill needs we use it to fill holes, With the exception of Vaughters and maybe logan. And we certainly have needs although some will turn a blind eye including Walters
  We need a strong safety,and help on offensive line but dont want to compete with other teams to do so.  De is another spot
Disappointing

Upgrade at returner

Upgrade at DE

Free Safety, we have a lot of options, I am confident one will be an upgrade.

OLine - Wallace will be a massive addition, and there will be competition, and Eli is a great 6th man / competition for C.

Walters kept our vital parts, and filled holes well.  Losses were replaced.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 12, 2025, 05:45:58 PMWe have Eli and Wallace to compete for C, LG as well as draft picks returning, new draft picks, and some Int players both existing and new.  There is a whole lotta beef to choose from.

We need quality beef, not just bulk. Eli saw the field last season during injuries, don't recall Wallace other than as #6 OL in our heavy package.....So we lost Dobson to FA, and Big Stan is another year older, as is Neufeld, both had injuries last year, as did KO, and likely will again this year. Zack was under pressure all season and never looked comfortable back there, we need to address that. I'd like to see us sign 1 proven vet OL, call him Suk Chungh, and replace what we lost in Dobson and then some.

I am agreeing with Bob Irving.

https://x.com/BobIrvingCJOB/status/1889507826608812516

Ford, 300. Lawler, 280ish. Dobson, 200+

Just not sustainable. Let the other teams over pay.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 12, 2025, 10:43:48 PMUpgrade at returner

Upgrade at DE

Free Safety, we have a lot of options, I am confident one will be an upgrade.

OLine - Wallace will be a massive addition, and there will be competition, and Eli is a great 6th man / competition for C.

Walters kept our vital parts, and filled holes well.  Losses were replaced.

as i said Logan and Vaughters were the exception, the rest are filling in holes rather than upgrades. Can you realistically say that having one less olineman let alone a starting one is not detrimental?  Did we look at upgrading the center position as this year there were 3 top ones available (Mcewan, Couture and Beard)

For Alexander hopefully we can bring in a rookie db to help and be an upgrade.
 Were hoping that parker will return to form after a year away, if not that makes the task more diffcult.

Quote from: DM83 on February 12, 2025, 08:52:28 PMlol! Nope those guys are super.  Evidently the Bombers did not think so.
Dime a dozen, I have said.  Evidently it's a rule not to re-sign top DBs.
Arguably, the. DBs we  don't re-sign don't. Do as good elsewhere.
Same as LBs. All those crazy guys who fly around, and can shut down any offense are amazing to watch.

Bombers are OK......just need a coordinator who wants to play aggressively, not giving a nervous guy like Arbuckle time to throw. ......bringing up bad memories.

I don't see the Bombers competing defensively.  And then with an unproven O line at left guard, and a never were players at receiver, could be a good time for Zac to retire.  Anybody think we make the grey cup?

What makes you think we can't compete defensively? That's our strength.

I'm worried about Zach getting his mojo back.

Quote from: dd on February 12, 2025, 10:45:11 PMWe need quality beef, not just bulk. Eli saw the field last season during injuries, don't recall Wallace other than as #6 OL in our heavy package.....So we lost Dobson to FA, and Big Stan is another year older, as is Neufeld, both had injuries last year, as did KO, and likely will again this year. Zack was under pressure all season and never looked comfortable back there, we need to address that. I'd like to see us sign 1 proven vet OL, call him Suk Chungh, and replace what we lost in Dobson and then some.

You know that BC has decided Chungh is not worth signing, right?  With the highest paid QB in the league to protect.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 13, 2025, 12:10:22 AMYou know that BC has decided Chungh is not worth signing, right?  With the highest paid QB in the league to protect.

Doesn't mean he's no longer good, could be they went with a younger and cheaper option, IDK.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 13, 2025, 12:10:22 AMYou know that BC has decided Chungh is not worth signing, right?  With the highest paid QB in the league to protect.

I don't think he s not worth signing I don't think they can afford to sign him with the big name commitments they made in Rourke and betts come to mind. Ya he's older but would you kick Stanley Bryant to the curb because of his birth certificate?? Don't think so. Of the 5 O linemen, you need 3 to anchor it the others can be rookies or average. Right now we have 2 proven vets and the rest young or below average talent.that ain't gonna cut it

This bugs me, and obviously, others.  No left guard. "Promote from within" sure if they have guys who have earned it.

Or they go American. Possibly a Canadian at safety, to make the import ratio?  But they need to replace a Canadian where Ford played, a traditionally Import at corner. So how does that affect the ratio?

One post earlier said. The strength of the Bombers is their defense. A cliche also said, to be good you need strength up the middle.  Hmmmm, Lb candidates the Jones boys played OK, safety? no one we know of at safety.  At nose guard, Fatboi?.  I don't think that is strength up the middle.

Why did Claybrooks,or I mean... Younger (those of the-crooked head variety, or it hat Jethro  Bodine look, not bring a linebacker or two, and pressure the formerly skittish Arbuckle?

Man, if that is our defence, we are going to get smoked.

Quote from: DM83 on February 13, 2025, 05:11:45 AMThis bugs me, and obviously, others.  No left guard. "Promote from within" sure if they have guys who have earned it.

Or they go American. Possibly a Canadian at safety, to make the import ratio?  But they need to replace a Canadian where Ford played, a traditionally Import at corner. So how does that affect the ratio?

One post earlier said. The strength of the Bombers is their defense. A cliche also said, to be good you need strength up the middle.  Hmmmm, Lb candidates the Jones boys played OK, safety? no one we know of at safety.  At nose guard, Fatboi?.  I don't think that is strength up the middle.

Why did Claybrooks,or I mean... Younger (those of the-crooked head variety, or it hat Jethro  Bodine look, not bring a linebacker or two, and pressure the formerly skittish Arbuckle?

Man, if that is our defence, we are going to get smoked.

You're way too early with this post.  We will still be signing players - off season signings, mini camps, draft, for example.  Wait for training camp and pre-season before the major downer syndrome.  Lots to do yet.

Quote from: Waffler on February 12, 2025, 11:34:41 PMFord, 300. Lawler, 280ish. Dobson, 200+

Just not sustainable. Let the other teams over pay.

Ford 300 is completely insane.  That's making more than some 1b QBs.  DB is like the cheapest position in the CFL, with copious players arriving from the south every season.  Let EDM lose with both Fords there.

Dobson 200 is normal $ for what's perceived as a top NAT OG.  I would argue since Desjar walked for 225, it's a little high (Dobson is no Desjar), but it has CFL precedence.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 12, 2025, 04:51:20 PMAggressive how? Who would you have liked to see targeted yesterday?

Kenny at 280: I would have matched that with the bonus $400k kitty.  We could have easily offered Kenny 250-260 and he would have stayed for that.  Maybe the parties felt the bridge was burnt... or maybe the milk was soured and there was a "face" issue.  Meh, I would have sucked it up an begged him to come back for $255.

At least Kenny went to HAM where he won't give us any grief.  No way HAM beats out both MTL and TOR to win the E.  I bet HAM stays in the basement.  Kenny comes back in 2 years with tailed tucked (again)?

Quote from: DM83 on February 12, 2025, 08:52:28 PMAnybody think we make the grey cup?

I do!  And I'll put money on it, too.

Quote from: Pigskin on February 12, 2025, 06:52:53 PMA guy like Landon Rice, (37) at the right $$ might be a nice insurance policy us.

I have the inside scoop Rice still wants to play.

And he's the new "GC Luck Charm"... he won the cup 2 years ago with MTL then last year with TOR.  If you're superstitious, you sign Rice so we win this year!

Rice can play, and be pretty good, at OG and OT.  Very handy in a backup.  He's also experienced as the 6th/jumbo.

However, I wouldn't start him at LG right off the bat, and that's what we most need right now.  And our existing 6th/jumbos are pretty good.  So if we need a flexible backup, Rice is good (he's basically Neufeld Lite).  But we still should make a splash FA for a top OG, or just dress an IMP.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 12, 2025, 04:13:23 PMWith an expiring QB and no obvious replacement in sight, it might appear to those "losers" that the Bombers are approaching the end of their reign and are a vulnerable team clinging to the coattails of past magic.  It's difficult to get to the top of the mountain, but it's more difficult to remain there.

Funny you should say that.  I was just watching the "TSN 2023 Season Preview" on the PVR (trying to clear out old, unneeded shows), and they were wondering the exact same thing (a whole segment devoted to it)!  In May 2023.  Since that show we've made 2 more GCs.

Ya, so I'm no longer worried about the being the "aged out" "vulnerable" team.  They've cried wolf for so many years, I no longer listen.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 13, 2025, 06:21:11 AMKenny comes back in 2 years with tailed tucked (again)?

I hope not. He chose to burn that bridge twice now. Not FIFO material.

Walters is supposed to do a press conference today. Intrigued to hear his take on things

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 13, 2025, 06:21:11 AMFord 300 is completely insane.  That's making more than some 1b QBs.  DB is like the cheapest position in the CFL, with copious players arriving from the south every season.  Let EDM lose with both Fords there.

Dobson 200 is normal $ for what's perceived as a top NAT OG.  I would argue since Desjar walked for 225, it's a little high (Dobson is no Desjar), but it has CFL precedence.

Kenny at 280: I would have matched that with the bonus $400k kitty.  We could have easily offered Kenny 250-260 and he would have stayed for that.  Maybe the parties felt the bridge was burnt... or maybe the milk was soured and there was a "face" issue.  Meh, I would have sucked it up an begged him to come back for $255.

At least Kenny went to HAM where he won't give us any grief.  No way HAM beats out both MTL and TOR to win the E.  I bet HAM stays in the basement.  Kenny comes back in 2 years with tailed tucked (again)?

Sounds like he thinks that he was the reason WFC won in 2019, and he thinks he's the savior that is going to break Hamilton's 25 year drought.  Can't dispute, he has an ego...  he gets to go play with "walking HOF" Bo Levi... but yeah, its not about the money.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 13, 2025, 02:39:19 PMSounds like he thinks that he was the reason WFC won in 2019...

Lawler said that...?

Only about 70 potential free agents left. Anybody worth signing that would help our roster?

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 13, 2025, 02:44:12 PMLawler said that...?

'It's a better move': Kenny Lawler says he left Bombers to win this time
Paul Friesen

Kenny Lawler says he went to Hamilton to win.

The talented and fiery former Winnipeg Blue Bombers receiver met with reporters in the Steel City on Wednesday and described his move as different from the way he bolted Winnipeg for a lucrative contract in Edmonton three years ago.

It's believed Lawler will earn close to $300,000 per season in his two-year deal, a healthy amount more than the Bombers offered him to stay.
While he's previously acknowledged chasing the money in Edmonton was a mistake, he downplayed that aspect this time.

"It's a better move," Lawler said. "When I was going to Edmonton, we all knew why I was going. It was just what I had to do, financially. But now, my biggest thing is to win. And I think we can win here. Everything that we have, it's going to be a turn around.

"We're going to be going to the playoffs, we're going to bring the Grey Cup back."

While the Bombers have reached five straight Grey Cup games, winning the first two, the Tiger-Cats have gone longer without a championship than any CFL team – since 1999.

Trying to end a city's Grey Cup drought is something Lawler is familiar with: he was part of the Winnipeg team that ended a 28-year famine in 2019.

"We were dealing with something similar in Winnipeg," he said. "And to be a part of that, it's a great feeling. So I know once we do it here, what it's going to be."

Lawler says the move wasn't a hard sell, not with a "walking Hall of Famer" like quarterback Bo Levi Mitchell at the controls of an offence run by head coach Scott Milanovich.

The 30-year-old says he's already been working on building the bond with teammates that's necessary to win.

"When you have a bond like this with the guys in that locker-room, it's unbreakable," he said. "The opposition's not going to be able to break you... that's what we had in Winnipeg."

Lawler is one of the most gifted receivers in the game. Despite missing eight games with a broken arm last season, he caught 41 passes for 662 yards and four touchdowns.

The year before that he pulled in 50 receptions for 901 yards in a dozen games, missing six because of an immigration issue stemming from an impaired driving conviction.

An injury limited him to 12 games, 59 catches and 894 yards in Edmonton in 2022. He had 1,104 yards on 64 grabs in 13 games with Winnipeg in '21, collecting a second Grey Cup ring.

Lawler vowed to keep winning in Hamilton.

"I manifest things. I speak them into existence. I did that going into Edmonton. It was maybe not really realistic. But here I really do believe it is."

Lawler's clearly lost his mind. Good riddance.

Quote from: Waffler on February 12, 2025, 11:34:41 PMI am agreeing with Bob Irving.

https://x.com/BobIrvingCJOB/status/1889507826608812516

Ford, 300. Lawler, 280ish. Dobson, 200+

Just not sustainable. Let the other teams over pay.

Agree 100%

Five Grey Cup appearances in a row but I'm leaving this team for more $$$ elsewhere. I dunno about that line of reasoning. See ya, bye!

Hamilton has upgraded a lot, sure, but GC hopes with Bo Levi?  Yikes.

Goveia has done a good job adding to the roster, but its still Hamilton.  Milanovich is good, but wearing 2 hats is always tough.  And with only Brent Monson helping him coach (only those 2 listed on the website as coaches) https://www.ticats.ca/footballstaff/  its gonna be tough.

Its great for the league when teams improve and make things more competitive.  Toronto takes a big step back, but Ham still has to beat MTL to get to the cup. 

If "winning" was his priority, I think this move to Hamilton was premature.  But he's gettin' paid!

Have to wonder if his FIFO wore out, especially with Schoen back. Was he scared of sharing the spotlight again?  Does he think he is target #1 with White on the roster?  Have to wonder about upfront money,we know there's no second year guaranteed money.  IF there's no upfront, he's an easy cut if he doesn't knock it out of the park.

Think Tim White is happy making $235k this year with Kenny making $300k? Gonna be a tense locker room if Kenny isn't the league leader after week 3...

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 13, 2025, 03:26:21 PMOnly about 70 potential free agents left. Anybody worth signing that would help our roster?

Of those 70, do you think more than 20 find work this year?  There have to be more than 60 new bodies in the league, so the list of no offer / retirement should be pretty high in those final 70...

Still a lot of DL beef out there, Wynn, Baron, Usher, Howsare and Leonard.  Not sure how long their teeth are, or if there is fire in the belly, or if the FIFO... but bringing in one to camp wouldn't cost a penny if they can't make a contribution.

Have to wonder what blew up Tre Roberson's deal.  No debating his ability.

Ford signed with the Elks for $230k, which is a lot for a DB but it's not the $300k mistakenly posted numerous times.

Milanovich benched BLM at one point last season due to poor play. For Lawler to claim that he's hitching himself to the Hamilton team because of BLM is dubious reasoning. Why not just admit that you're more into $$$ than in winning? Outside of one brilliant game last season Lawler hasn't been overly impressive and it's questionable if he was worth what we paid him. Hamilton is gambling on Lawler as they are with BLM and it remains to be seen if that duo produce anything special in 2025. I'm already itching for a game against Hamilton.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 13, 2025, 03:55:36 PMOf those 70, do you think more than 20 find work this year?  There have to be more than 60 new bodies in the league, so the list of no offer / retirement should be pretty high in those final 70...

Still a lot of DL beef out there, Wynn, Baron, Usher, Howsare and Leonard.  Not sure how long their teeth are, or if there is fire in the belly, or if the FIFO... but bringing in one to camp wouldn't cost a penny if they can't make a contribution.

Have to wonder what blew up Tre Roberson's deal.  No debating his ability.

I agree only a few are going to get any deal soon. Some might get a deal as the season progresses as in season injury issues. Something like Whitehead being signed as a rental.

That said, there are a few players that might have value if there is no signing bonus. DL in particular where they could compete in TC.

Overall it appears about 70 players moved to new teams. 10 are out on NFL option deals and perhaps 12 have retired at this point.

Although we don't directly need Tre Roberston, I wonder what his SMS might be?  If we can't add a good player elsewhere, then why not add an experienced vet DB?



The CFL is a league of transition every off season.

Hamilton preseason favourites to lead the league in Egotism.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 13, 2025, 03:45:49 PMHamilton has upgraded a lot, sure, but GC hopes with Bo Levi?  Yikes.

Goveia has done a good job adding to the roster, but its still Hamilton.  Milanovich is good, but wearing 2 hats is always tough.  And with only Brent Monson helping him coach (only those 2 listed on the website as coaches) https://www.ticats.ca/footballstaff/  its gonna be tough.

Its great for the league when teams improve and make things more competitive.  Toronto takes a big step back, but Ham still has to beat MTL to get to the cup. 

If "winning" was his priority, I think this move to Hamilton was premature.  But he's gettin' paid!

Have to wonder if his FIFO wore out, especially with Schoen back. Was he scared of sharing the spotlight again?  Does he think he is target #1 with White on the roster?  Have to wonder about upfront money,we know there's no second year guaranteed money.  IF there's no upfront, he's an easy cut if he doesn't knock it out of the park.

Think Tim White is happy making $235k this year with Kenny making $300k? Gonna be a tense locker room if Kenny isn't the league leader after week 3...

All of this conjecture is a moot point. He went for the highest pay day. Period.

Can't blame Lawler for leaving to make the big pay day given the short amount of time for their careers. As far as what he said, of course he is going to pump the tires on BLM and the Cats now, he is part of their team.

Quote from: Horseman on February 13, 2025, 06:25:30 PMCan't blame Lawler for leaving to make the big pay day given the short amount of time for their careers. As far as what he said, of course he is going to pump the tires on BLM and the Cats now, he is part of their team.

Of course, not sure what people expect him to say when he's pushed out in front of the media twice yearly.  He'll retreat from the spotlight and go back to minding his own business, he's not particularly media savy.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 13, 2025, 07:06:22 PMOf course, not sure what people expect him to say when he's pushed out in front of the media twice yearly.  He'll retreat from the spotlight and go back to minding his own business, he's not particularly media savy.

He faces the media multiple times during the season - like most every other star player in the CFL. Not sure Lawler has ever been one to retreat from any spotlight.

Walters said they only spend to the current SMS level. Ok sure that made sense. However where did we spend that money?

Tony Jones might have gotten what Bighill got?

Holms got more. Nothing like Ford got going to the Elks. I doubt Bryant, Neufeld or Lofton got big jumps if anything.

We saved money on not resigning Lawler, Woli, Augustine, Feltmate, Dobson, Alexander, Whitehead. Cole, Haba and Garbutt were just ELC players.

Mitchell, White, Vaughters and Streveler got some money but they couldn't have gotten the rest of what we didn't spend.

So I ask, what happened.

Your missing a few.  Cobb, Stern, Logan, Gowanlock, Jones #2, Patterson.   

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 13, 2025, 07:52:03 PMWalters said they only spend to the current SMS level. Ok sure that made sense. However where did we spend that money?

Tony Jones might have gotten what Bighill got?

Holms got more. Nothing like Ford got going to the Elks. I doubt Bryant, Neufeld or Lofton got big jumps if anything.

We saved money on not resigning Lawler, Woli, Augustine, Feltmate, Dobson, Alexander, Whitehead. Cole, Haba and Garbutt were just ELC players.

Mitchell, White, Vaughters and Streveler got some money but they couldn't have gotten the rest of what we didn't spend.

So I ask, what happened.

Oh, fingers in the till.
Fingers in the till.
We shall sing rejoicing...
Fingers in the till!

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 13, 2025, 07:52:03 PMWalters said they only spend to the current SMS level. Ok sure that made sense. However where did we spend that money?

Tony Jones might have gotten what Bighill got?

Holms got more. Nothing like Ford got going to the Elks. I doubt Bryant, Neufeld or Lofton got big jumps if anything.

We saved money on not resigning Lawler, Woli, Augustine, Feltmate, Dobson, Alexander, Whitehead. Cole, Haba and Garbutt were just ELC players.

Mitchell, White, Vaughters and Streveler got some money but they couldn't have gotten the rest of what we didn't spend.

So I ask, what happened.

Walters confirms he's spending to the original cap of $5.6 million and is operating as normally planned, he has not touched the extra $400k.

So, there has been no further additions of players, does this mean we are done with any of the remaining FA?

Quote from: Pigskin on February 13, 2025, 08:16:26 PMYour missing a few.  Cobb, Stern, Logan, Gowanlock, Jones #2, Patterson.   

Not all of them will make the AR ( Patterson, Dolegala and Streveler ). Jones # 2 and Gowanlock might be the same cost as Cole and Feltmate?

Lawler, Woli and Whitehead gone. Schoen took a cut. I can't see that Mitchell, Stern, Cobb, Stern and Logan added up to that same total.

Quote from: Horseman on February 13, 2025, 10:00:02 PMSo, there has been no further additions of players, does this mean we are done with any of the remaining FA?

We just signed Makonzo. He has some upside if he's fully recovered.  I think he played some at SAM and some at safety didn't he? Either way, decent depth at worst.

It doesn't look like he played in 2024 and I think his 2023 injury was an achilles?

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 13, 2025, 09:15:54 PMWalters confirms he's spending to the original cap of $5.6 million and is operating as normally planned, he has not touched the extra $400k.

That's what I said. What combination of additions add up to the losses on the roster?

From my simple perspective, we lost Lawler and replaced him with Mitchell and Stern, we lost Dobson and replaced him with nobody, we lost Ford and replaced him with nobody, so we lost 3 Allstars, and replaced them with 1 ok receiver, 1 5th or 6th read reciever, and nobody for our OL and nobody at corner...we're in the red on this one. We need a proven Cdn OL to replace Dobson, call him Chungh, and somebody to replace Ford at corner, call him Roberson, then I would feel better where we're at in terms of roster changes. We don't need just replacements, we need guys who can dominate like the guys who left.

I don't see why we aren't spending some of the $400k in extra SMS to get some allstars back to replace the allstars we lost. Staying the course and hoping the 'next man up' can perform at an Allstar level isn't very realistic or smart.

Patience we ain't done yet.  Deep breath, everything will be ok.

Quote from: dd on February 13, 2025, 10:35:48 PMFrom my simple perspective, we lost Lawler and replaced him with Mitchell and Stern, we lost Dobson and replaced him with nobody, we lost Ford and replaced him with nobody, so we lost 3 Allstars, and replaced them with 1 ok receiver, 1 5th or 6th read reciever, and nobody for our OL and nobody at corner...we're in the red on this one. We need a proven Cdn OL to replace Dobson, call him Chungh, and somebody to replace Ford at corner, call him Roberson, then I would feel better where we're at in terms of roster changes. We don't need just replacements, we need guys who can dominate like the guys who left.

I don't see why we aren't spending some of the $400k in extra SMS to get some allstars back to replace the allstars we lost. Staying the course and hoping the 'next man up' can perform at an Allstar level isn't very realistic or smart.

to be fair Lawler is being replaced by Schoen Walters said as much
Vanderpool is at least as good as Dobson
I agree we haven't replaced ford
We took a big hit on canadian talent. I agree that Walters should spend at least half of the 400k, even if it doesn't come to fruition as part of salary cap this is a year we could go over and fans would be happy with it.

Quote from: Pete on February 13, 2025, 11:45:10 PMto be fair Lawler is being replaced by Schoen Walters said as much
Vanderpool is at least as good as Dobson
I agree we haven't replaced ford
We took a big hit on canadian talent. I agree that Walters should spend at least half of the 400k, even if it doesn't come to fruition as part of salary cap this is a year we could go over and fans would be happy with it.

The choices and where to spend it happened during the tampering period for the most part. Slimmer pickings now.

I don't think the fans would be happy to go over the cap by several hundred thousand just because the Grey Cup is in Winnipeg.

IMO it's an unwise and unfounded argument. Every team is trying to get to and win the Grey Cup. Winning at home is a possible bonus but in the grand scheme of things not any sort of focus.

I think for the most part, we've replaced high end talent with more depth.

Dobson and Ford weren't making big money for us, so not replacing with high end FAs doesn't save us money.

Lawler saves us a chunk, but we brought in several CFL vets that will be coming in making more than the minimum.

As to the $400k. We haven't heard of any previously agreed to deals falling apart, so it seems like all the other GMs are doing the same thing Walters is: seeing if it's going to be distributed among all players or added to TC payments, etc.

Quote from: Jesse on February 13, 2025, 11:58:29 PMI think for the most part, we've replaced high end talent with more depth.

Dobson and Ford weren't making big money for us, so not replacing with high end FAs doesn't save us money.

Lawler saves us a chunk, but we brought in several CFL vets that will be coming in making more than the minimum.

As to the $400k. We haven't heard of any previously agreed to deals falling apart, so it seems like all the other GMs are doing the same thing Walters is: seeing if it's going to be distributed among all players or added to TC payments, etc.

One of the reasons Walters can't pay Dobson $200k is that's more than Stanley makes and way more than Neufeld has ever been paid.  Is Dobson a better OG than Neufeld, I think not, Neufeld sometimes struggles with injury but when healthy he does his job very well.

Our replacement for Dobson is already on our team...Gabe Wallace, the guy is a beast, he made some impressive blocks last year from what I recall, pancaked and bulldozed some opponents. Not worried about losing Dobson.

Quote from: Pete on February 13, 2025, 11:45:10 PMto be fair Lawler is being replaced by Schoen Walters said as much
Vanderpool is at least as good as Dobson
I agree we haven't replaced ford
We took a big hit on canadian talent. I agree that Walters should spend at least half of the 400k, even if it doesn't come to fruition as part of salary cap this is a year we could go over and fans would be happy with it.

I think Randolph would step into a starting role before Vanterpool.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 13, 2025, 02:39:19 PMSounds like he thinks that he was the reason WFC won in 2019, and he thinks he's the savior that is going to break Hamilton's 25 year drought.

And his heel in '24 GC is part of the reason we lost.  What did he do in that game again??

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 13, 2025, 03:33:37 PMLawler's clearly lost his mind. Good riddance.

Meh.  He's talking up his game and his new team.  It's all part of the show.  It helps to believe in what you're doing.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 13, 2025, 09:15:54 PMWalters confirms he's spending to the original cap of $5.6 million and is operating as normally planned, he has not touched the extra $400k.

Well that's just insane.  No sense saving it so we can do year-end early signings for '26.  Fans care about the home GC.  WM cares about the home GC.  Players care about the home GC.

We should be spending to the cap and a little beyond (no penalty worth caring about up to $100k overspend!).

The only thing I can think of is we are leaving plenty of room for mid-season NFL cuts, like Pokey.  And maybe some other-team mercenary NFL rejects (like Henoc was).  And vet-cutdown-day CFL rejects too.

This could be the year we are the ones making significant Sep/Oct/Nov player moves to beef up for a GC run (see SSK 2013).

That's my dream, anyhow.

Quote from: Horseman on February 14, 2025, 01:10:05 AMOur replacement for Dobson is already on our team...Gabe Wallace, the guy is a beast, he made some impressive blocks last year from what I recall, pancaked and bulldozed some opponents. Not worried about losing Dobson.

As 6th/7th.  Not starting OG.  I see nothing to indicate Wallace is ready to start, or even will ever be.  That said, you often can't tell until you throw them in the fire.  So we may start him week 1 just to see, and then revert to Randolph by week 6 if it's not working out.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 14, 2025, 06:22:58 AMMeh.  He's talking up his game and his new team.  It's all part of the show.  It helps to believe in what you're doing.

Until he actually follows up with consistent action, it's all just bluster. Empty words, IMO.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 14, 2025, 06:27:25 AMAs 6th/7th.  Not starting OG.  I see nothing to indicate Wallace is ready to start, or even will ever be.  That said, you often can't tell until you throw them in the fire.  So we may start him week 1 just to see, and then revert to Randolph by week 6 if it's not working out.

Can't really say yet, we haven't seen Wallace in any pass blocking situations so we don't know how well he works in reverse. Same with Eli and Dobson, they both do fine aggressively blocking forward, it takes more finesse to pass block well.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 14, 2025, 06:25:52 AMWell that's just insane.  No sense saving it so we can do year-end early signings for '26.  Fans care about the home GC.  WM cares about the home GC.  Players care about the home GC.

We should be spending to the cap and a little beyond (no penalty worth caring about up to $100k overspend!).

The only thing I can think of is we are leaving plenty of room for mid-season NFL cuts, like Pokey.  And maybe some other-team mercenary NFL rejects (like Henoc was).  And vet-cutdown-day CFL rejects too.

This could be the year we are the ones making significant Sep/Oct/Nov player moves to beef up for a GC run (see SSK 2013).

That's my dream, anyhow.

We haven't seen any team spend the extra $400K yet. Most of the player movements were made during the tampering period which was before they knew of the increase.

The movement of free agents not due to tampering window deals has dropped significantly. I haven't seen any big name signed which might indicate any team using this extra money. I also can't see too many players left that might get bigger contracts.


O. Wilson is under contract so if he comes back it's on his original deal which was an ELC. While it may not have been rock bottom, it wasn't high either.

NFL cuts coming back mid season for the most part are just PR players. Only a few were veteran players that might have been in the CFL earlier. Only a few exceptions like Rourke and Betts returning in 2024. Mack came back but was still on his ELC IIRC.

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 14, 2025, 03:09:49 PMWe haven't seen any team spend the extra $400K yet. Most of the player movements were made during the tampering period which was before they knew of the increase.

The movement of free agents not due to tampering window deals has dropped significantly. I haven't seen any big name signed which might indicate any team using this extra money. I also can't see too many players left that might get bigger contracts.


O. Wilson is under contract so if he comes back it's on his original deal which was an ELC. While it may not have been rock bottom, it wasn't high either.

NFL cuts coming back mid season for the most part are just PR players. Only a few were veteran players that might have been in the CFL earlier. Only a few exceptions like Rourke and Betts returning in 2024. Mack came back but was still on his ELC IIRC.

I haven't done the math but I have a hard time believing the Elks did not spend the extra cash, but as Walters said in the interview teams can spend the extra money how ever they see fit. 

haven't the Bombers made money every season for some years?

I think the team is operated with that in mind.

Some of the others are, some are not. And one it seems, is run on a shoestring.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 14, 2025, 03:20:00 PMI haven't done the math but I have a hard time believing the Elks did not spend the extra cash, but as Walters said in the interview teams can spend the extra money how ever they see fit. 

It was reported that no teams knew of the extra SMS. The Elks also trimmed some high salaries like: Lewis, MBT, Montcrief, Foucault, Oakman, Leonard and Purifoy. They also haven't yet re-signed another dozen or so of their own potential free agents.

Admittedly it's hard to calculate the + or - SMS. OTOH, With the exception of advance money or guaranteed money, none of this counts until final rosters are declared.

Ford was basically replaced by a returning Parker..

Every year, you lose all stars, and new all stars show up.

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 14, 2025, 03:32:03 PMIt was reported that no teams knew of the extra SMS. The Elks also trimmed some high salaries like: Lewis, MBT, Montcrief, Foucault, Oakman and Purifoy. They also haven't yet re-signed another dozen or so of their own potential free agents.

Admittedly it's hard to calculate the + or - SMS. OTOH, With the exception of advance money or guaranteed money, none of this counts until final rosters are declared.

It's the number of $200k+ contracts added that stick out to me, that would include adding Ceresna, Fajardo, Robbie Smith, Brinkman, Ford and Kaion Julien-Grant who could be close. Of course they save a bit paying Tre Ford below premium.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 14, 2025, 03:53:58 PMIt's the number of $200k+ contracts added that stick out to me, that would include adding Ceresna, Fajardo, Robbie Smith, Brinkman, Ford and Kaion Julien-Grant who could be close. Of course they save a bit paying Tre Ford below premium.

Sure but Lewis was paid more than Lawler in 2024. Their net QB room cost went down after MBT was traded. They only re-signed about 6 of their own 24 potential free agents. There is a lot of SMS going out the door. It's possible the Elks are willing to risk going over the 2025 SMS.

Time will tell who makes the roster and / or who might get traded before final rosters are set.  Here are their details.

Subtracted: QB McLeod Bethel-Thompson (A), DB Darrius Bratton (A), DL Elliott Brown (A), DL Demarcus Christmas (A), REC Gavin Cobb (N), OL David Foucault (N), DB Josh Hagerty (N), REC Tevin Jones (A), P Jake Julien (N), REC Eugene Lewis (A), REC Hergy Mayala (N), REC Dillon Mitchell (A), SAM Derrick Moncrief (A), DL Shawn Oakman (A), DL J-Min Pelley (N), DB Loucheiz Purifoy (A), OL Jakub Szott (N)

Still unsigned: DB Jeremie Dominique (N), REC Vincent Forbes-Mombleau (N), OL Tony Gray (A), DB Scott Hutter (N), DL A.C. Leonard (A), LB Les Maruo (G), DL Romeo McKnight (A), REC Kyran Moore (A), QB Dakota Prukop (A), OL Shane Richards (N), OL Hunter Steward (N)

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 14, 2025, 03:07:45 PMCan't really say yet, we haven't seen Wallace in any pass blocking situations so we don't know how well he works in reverse. Same with Eli and Dobson, they both do fine aggressively blocking forward, it takes more finesse to pass block well.

You've seen Eli block in passing situations.  He's subbed in at a couple positions during his career.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 14, 2025, 03:20:00 PMI haven't done the math but I have a hard time believing the Elks did not spend the extra cash, but as Walters said in the interview teams can spend the extra money how ever they see fit. 

It just seems like they've spent more because they're turning over more of their roster.

Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on February 14, 2025, 04:22:41 PMYou've seen Eli block in passing situations.  He's subbed in at a couple positions during his career.

That's probably the main reason Eli isn't starting.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 14, 2025, 05:03:44 PMThat's probably the main reason Eli isn't starting.

You know, in College, Eli was touted as a top NFL prospect at C, right? 

The main reason he isn't starting is that there are better, more established players ahead of him on the DC.  But there is also a reason he is here, because he has the ability to step in when needed.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 14, 2025, 05:37:21 PMYou know, in College, Eli was touted as a top NFL prospect at C, right? 

The main reason he isn't starting is that there are better, more established players ahead of him on the DC.  But there is also a reason he is here, because he has the ability to step in when needed.

College was 8 years ago. He's missed multiple years of his development in college and as a pro for various reasons. He had multiple rookies start ahead of him last season. He's here as a depth piece, sure. But his trajectory is much different than what we hoped for when he was drafted.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 14, 2025, 05:37:21 PMYou know, in College, Eli was touted as a top NFL prospect at C, right? 

The main reason he isn't starting is that there are better, more established players ahead of him on the DC.  But there is also a reason he is here, because he has the ability to step in when needed.

Totally irrelevant, Walters was touting Wallace stepping up to starter, he didn't mention Eli who's been next man up since he arrived in 2019.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 14, 2025, 09:27:32 PMTotally irrelevant, Walters was touting Wallace stepping up to starter, he didn't mention Eli who's been next man up since he arrived in 2019.

Wallace is next man up for OG for sure.  But Wallace would be sixth man id Kman went down, because Eli slides in there...

Wallace is going to be a good one. I concentrate on OL play as that was what I played and was in the CFL draft years ago. Wallace is a road grader and will be the replacement for Dobson this year, book it.

Lucky has retired.

https://3downnation.com/2025/02/14/former-all-star-cfl-receiver-lucky-whitehead-retires-from-pro-football/

Quote from: Ridermania on February 14, 2025, 10:42:32 PMLucky has retired.

https://3downnation.com/2025/02/14/former-all-star-cfl-receiver-lucky-whitehead-retires-from-pro-football/

I didn't see that coming, I thought he might stick around if he could help someone out that needed it. Then again, he's had a good career and carried himself as a pro and I wish him all the best as he moves on.

Thanks for the memories and your contributions as a Bomber, Lucky! Here's to bigger and better things ahead.

https://x.com/i/status/1890536583113371864

Strange he wouldn't try and go to some teams camp, but I guess. Seems like yesterday BC was touting him as the next biggest thing and now he's done.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 14, 2025, 03:20:00 PMI haven't done the math but I have a hard time believing the Elks did not spend the extra cash, but as Walters said in the interview teams can spend the extra money how ever they see fit.

Yes, and HAM.  I think HAM got wind of the $400k before it was made public.  The Kenny signing and their other splash stuff was definitely above their budget from last year.

Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on February 14, 2025, 04:22:41 PMYou've seen Eli block in passing situations.  He's subbed in at a couple positions during his career.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 14, 2025, 05:03:44 PMThat's probably the main reason Eli isn't starting.

Ya, Eli got some decent time starting last season with the multi-man injuries on OL.  He was baaaaaaaaad.  I'm not sure we won a single game when he started.

But he is great as 6th/jumbo, and I desperately want to see him get a pass on his patented downfield, turn, pretend to catch schtick.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 14, 2025, 05:37:21 PMYou know, in College, Eli was touted as a top NFL prospect at C, right? 

That's why we keep him.  Good 6th and our only option at C if Ko-man gets a booboo.  Luckily Ko-man is pretty darn stout!

To be fair to Tui, I bet he is better at his natural C than OG or OT.  And C is generally easier anyhow (minus all the snap mechanics/complications).

He also seems undersized.  Maybe with more beef (which he could add if starting) he'd be better.  He seems plenty quick and nimble.

I agree that if we are starting an in-house NAT at LG week 1, it'll be Wallace, not Eli.  Neither would be my choice.  But I'm open to experiments, as I've often been wrong judging backup OL talent!!

Quote from: Ridermania on February 14, 2025, 10:42:32 PMLucky has retired.

Ya, that GC dropsie was kind of the nail in the coffin.  T-rex arms, zero catch radius, and fumblitis wasn't gonna excite any teams.

That said, he was good at what he was good at for many of his previous years, and he was stellar here in '19.  The only reason he didn't remain a Bomber the whole time is we had Grant at the same time.

A genuine great guy and fan fave of much of the league.  Even with the GC faux pas I'd happily buy him a drink and watch a game with him if he showed up in the stands again!

Whatever he goes and does, I wish him well.

Quote from: Horseman on February 14, 2025, 10:40:43 PMWallace is going to be a good one. I concentrate on OL play as that was what I played and was in the CFL draft years ago. Wallace is a road grader and will be the replacement for Dobson this year, book it.

Thanks for the insight.  That's what makes this forum great!  I'm not sold on Wallace yet but this kind of input helps assuage any fear.

Hey Horseman, if we don't have any ratio trouble, what would you think of starting Randolph at OG instead?

Do you think we'll go for an early DP OL this season?

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 15, 2025, 08:07:06 AMHey Horseman, if we don't have any ratio trouble, what would you think of starting Randolph at OG instead?

Do you think we'll go for an early DP OL this season?

Randolph is more of a tackle than a guard, however, he can be converted, the guard position usually requires some "pulling" and getting around the end to block so they have to be somewhat more mobile than a typical tackle.

As far as drafting an OL, yes, you should always look at drafting a good OL prospect, not many Canadian OL tackles end up playing tackle in the CFL, they are normally converted to a guard and the tackle position is reserved for US players as it looked more as a skill position along the OL. This is not always the case as there are Canadians that do occupy the tackle position in the CFL.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 15, 2025, 08:07:06 AMThanks for the insight.  That's what makes this forum great!  I'm not sold on Wallace yet but this kind of input helps assuage any fear.

Hey Horseman, if we don't have any ratio trouble, what would you think of starting Randolph at OG instead?

Do you think we'll go for an early DP OL this season?

Walters said we're looking at going import at the position too. Have to believe Randolph has the inside track if we go that route.

Quote from: Jesse on February 15, 2025, 07:00:01 PMWalters said we're looking at going import at the position too. Have to believe Randolph has the inside track if we go that route.

Doing that would be less of an issue if we hadn't already lost Ford. That's two Canadian starters lost in the ratio.

I'd expect the trade off to become a Canadian starter at safety.

If they can make that work, fine but it's a TBD to see if we have one that takes that spot and plays well.

2 receiver, 2 OL, RB, DT, LB.

We don't need to start more than the minimum. We can start anyone at safety we want to.

Quote from: Jesse on February 16, 2025, 01:27:44 AM2 receiver, 2 OL, RB, DT, LB.

We don't need to start more than the minimum. We can start anyone at safety we want to.

We all know we don't have to start more than the minimum.

It's a matter of versatility. Last year we had 9 Canadians starting most of the time. In 2024 if a Canadian was injured we had more options than we would this year if we have less starting and our depth is unknown.

You don't just lose two Canadian starters and just shrug that off. You don't lose about 17 players from last years roster and shrug that off either.

That's not to say some of the newbies both rookies and free agent players won't do well. It is a TBD at the moment.

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 16, 2025, 01:07:23 PMWe all know we don't have to start more than the minimum.

It's a matter of versatility. Last year we had 9 Canadians starting most of the time. In 2024 if a Canadian was injured we had more options than we would this year if we have less starting and our depth is unknown.

You don't just lose two Canadian starters and just shrug that off. You don't lose about 17 players from last years roster and shrug that off either.

That's not to say some of the newbies both rookies and free agent players won't do well. It is a TBD at the moment.

Now you're making a different point than in the post I commented on.

We lost two Canadian starters but they can be replaced my imports without affecting our ratio.

If you want to make the point that our depth took a hit sure, but we also added so much depth through FA. It was Walters' entire focus so far.

We need quality guys. WE ALL KNOW THAT.
Dobson was a turnstile. Alexander appeared to lose a step
Ford wants to lose games.
Life goes on.

I think Randolph will be the front runner at guard.
Ford was awesome, but we won a couple Grey Cups with a multitude of DB Danny brought in. They are a dime a dozen. Lawler was good. Never regained his form of the first season, and ultimately was overpaid.

Biggie was hurt, same as Strev Time will tell. Biggie still wants to play.  So do I. But at age 68 I feel that ship has sailed. lol!

The Canadian Mafia have done an outstanding job for the last ...what's it been 8 years? Going to a Bomber game is a lot of fun.

I need some hype regarding Bomber life.  We need a TV show on the team, the Coach Cal show.  Use AI to bring him back...or have Lapo do a remote as a Bomber coach.

Quote from: Jesse on February 16, 2025, 03:18:34 PMNow you're making a different point than in the post I commented on.

We lost two Canadian starters but they can be replaced my imports without affecting our ratio.

If you want to make the point that our depth took a hit sure, but we also added so much depth through FA. It was Walters' entire focus so far.

It's not just the depth we've lost but the talent of our Canadian starters is diminished. Yes Walters added some depth but aside from Makonzo, none of those Canadians have been starters or much more than ST players.


Cobb, Hagerty, Gowonluck ( sp ). We don't know that we have imports that will be as good as the Canadian starters we lost.

Plugging in an import is not a slam dunk and as I said it impacts the rotational ability when you only start the minimum number of Canadians.

In terms of depth, we got some in the receiver and linebacker areas, but we took a step backwards in Oline, defensive backs, and defensive ends. I get that Walters doesn't want to overpay the big names but now we have to count on getting rookie talent.
  The draft doesn't look to be particularly strong so there's that.
We are going to have to count heavily on our scouting dept for db (which has been successful) and the DE (which hasn't been) to shore those up.  I have no idea why we didn't sign Garbutt back. The oline depth is a concern on a cdn level cause that is hard to find.
We've been so focused on Lawler's replacement(s) that we may have kept our eyes off the prize.

Quote from: Pete on February 16, 2025, 05:28:46 PMIn terms of depth, we got some in the receiver and linebacker areas, but we took a step backwards in Oline, defensive backs, and defensive ends. I get that Walters doesn't want to overpay the big names but now we have to count on getting rookie talent.
  The draft doesn't look to be particularly strong so there's that.
We are going to have to count heavily on our scouting dept for db (which has been successful) and the DE (which hasn't been) to shore those up.  I have no idea why we didn't sign Garbutt back. The oline depth is a concern on a cdn level cause that is hard to find.
We've been so focused on Lawler's replacement(s) that we may have kept our eyes off the prize.

It's the opposite.

We had to depend on rookie talent last year because of overpaying at certain spots. Now we have depth throughout with CFL experience. The only rookies should be imports who have won positions over existing players.

If Kelly moves to safety who do we have to adequately backup?
At de we have Vaughters but little else. And we lost dobson so down a cdn lineman

Clercius steps up to replace Woli

Wallace replaces Dobson.

One of a bunch of Nats can step up to replace BA, which replaces Ford's NAT spot.

And we still have last years DP's and this years.

Manu, Kalra, Vlahogiannis, Gassama.  Manu still with the Lions as their 3rd string LT...

Quote from: Pete on February 16, 2025, 06:11:56 PMIf Kelly moves to safety who do we have to adequately backup?
At de we have Vaughters but little else. And we lost dobson so down a cdn lineman

I'm hoping Josh Hagerty can compete at Safety, like his size 6'-3" 200 lbs. He was the tall guy with long hair, I remember he had good closing speed.

Quote from: DM83 on February 16, 2025, 03:58:14 PMWe need quality guys. WE ALL KNOW THAT.
Dobson was a turnstile. Alexander appeared to lose a step
Ford wants to lose games.
Life goes on.

I think Randolph will be the front runner at guard.
Ford was awesome, but we won a couple Grey Cups with a multitude of DB Danny brought in. They are a dime a dozen. Lawler was good. Never regained his form of the first season, and ultimately was overpaid.

Biggie was hurt, same as Strev Time will tell. Biggie still wants to play.  So do I. But at age 68 I feel that ship has sailed. lol!

The Canadian Mafia have done an outstanding job for the last ...what's it been 8 years? Going to a Bomber game is a lot of fun.

I need some hype regarding Bomber life.  We need a TV show on the team, the Coach Cal show.  Use AI to bring him back...or have Lapo do a remote as a Bomber coach.

Dobson was a good asset to the club, will be missed and will have a good and long career imo
Agree Alexandre but might have one year left? 50/50
Ford- some of your comments about him about as out there as I have ever seen, Ford is a generational talent, massive loss.  Not a dime a dozen in any way, shape or form imo.
Agree regarding Lawler but I think he earned his keep last year, came on strong, yes injuries a big factor, love every minute he was on the field though
Heavy agree on your comment on the Mafia and how great of a run / how great it's been to watch

Quote from: Pete on February 16, 2025, 06:11:56 PMIf Kelly moves to safety who do we have to adequately backup?
At de we have Vaughters but little else. And we lost dobson so down a cdn lineman

Cdn depth behind Kelly isn't great, depth in general at safety a concern yet but with returning young guys stepping up, finding new faces at camp and by the vets doing their thing, I believe it will work out.  My biggest worry is a drop off from Ford, he was lights out.  Make good points, my biggest worry is the OL.  Yes need more at DL.  Sounds like we on the same page, DBs my final but least worry.

Quote from: Jesse on February 16, 2025, 01:27:44 AM2 receiver, 2 OL, RB, DT, LB.

We don't need to start more than the minimum. We can start anyone at safety we want to.

Real Canadians want to see more Canadians playing.

Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on February 16, 2025, 09:59:10 PMReal Canadians want to see more Canadians playing.

It's was amazing to see more starting last year, many dumped on the idea, a luxury we won't have as much going forward

Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on February 16, 2025, 09:59:10 PMReal Canadians want to see more Canadians playing.

Never said otherwise. We're just not handicapped by the ratio the way some are claiming. We got it covered even if we start 3 import OL. We're starting above the minimum if Wallace wins the LG spot. We also have Canadian depth in the secondary that could step up.

So many options.

turns out Lawler may actually make more than 300k if the stars line up. He is the highest paid non-qb it says.

https://3downnation.com/2025/02/16/hamilton-tiger-cats-make-kenny-lawler-cfls-highest-paid-non-quarterback/

Quote from: Waffler on February 16, 2025, 11:26:53 PMturns out Lawler may actually make more than 300k if the stars line up. He is the highest paid non-qb it says.

https://3downnation.com/2025/02/16/hamilton-tiger-cats-make-kenny-lawler-cfls-highest-paid-non-quarterback/

With Bo chucking it up, he'll probably have his best season of his career.

I'd bet Bombers still finish ahead of Hamilton in the standings.

Lawler was overpaid but that's what star power does.  If he plays all the games he will earn it.

Ridiculous amount. Lewis was a steal at $235!!

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 16, 2025, 04:48:55 PMPlugging in an import is not a slam dunk and as I said it impacts the rotational ability when you only start the minimum number of Canadians.

Ha, like every other team in the league?  I think only 1 other team regularly started >7 NATs on purpose.

And most teams made use of the FAKENAT DNS/DNA 35-snaps rule.  Maybe we should finally do the same.

Starter quality NATs, especially the better ones, are always more expensive than the same talent of IMP.  Therefore the only way you can regularly start more NATs than your opponents is to always be finding and starting ELC / near-ELC NATs.  As soon as the other teams spot your special NAT guy, their next FA $ gets too high (Ford, Dobson).

You can stretch it a little bit with talented but "just not good enough to draw FA attention" workhorses like Fatboi, Kramdi, Woli (now Clercius).

Starting 8, 9, 10 NATs regularly last season may have been an aberration we can no longer afford.

Starting quality NATs are a luxury, for sure, but drafting so many quality players makes it much easier.  It seems every year we lose a NAT starter or two, and next man up. 

I don't think a 3 INT Oline is in the plans except as an emergency.  We have 2 very good prospects coming to camp, and have Wallace with a year under his belt.  We heave a plethora of NAT DT's, so you inow one will start. We don't know if FS is going NAT this year, it could easily.  And we still have NAT RB, SB and WR's the same as last year. 

3 OL
1 SAM
1 DL
1 RB
1 SB
1 WR

That's 8, plus a possible FS for 9

And we have all our picks, plus I assume we have the extra 2nd rounder for not using any fake nat reps.

NAT depth will always be a strength of a Walters helmed team.  Even losing starters won't affect that, but had it been an issue, we had the money to keep Dobson if we didn't have options.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 17, 2025, 04:07:01 PMStarting quality NATs are a luxury, for sure, but drafting so many quality players makes it much easier.  It seems every year we lose a NAT starter or two, and next man up. 

I don't think a 3 INT Oline is in the plans except as an emergency.  We have 2 very good prospects coming to camp, and have Wallace with a year under his belt.  We heave a plethora of NAT DT's, so you inow one will start. We don't know if FS is going NAT this year, it could easily.  And we still have NAT RB, SB and WR's the same as last year. 

3 OL
1 SAM
1 DL
1 RB
1 SB
1 WR

That's 8, plus a possible FS for 9

And we have all our picks, plus I assume we have the extra 2nd rounder for not using any fake nat reps.

NAT depth will always be a strength of a Walters helmed team.  Even losing starters won't affect that, but had it been an issue, we had the money to keep Dobson if we didn't have options.

The more Natls. they have capable of starting the better, if they have 8 good chance 2 or 3 could be wiped out by injuries at some point, then they're forced to start someone like Gauthier and lose ability. They'll never have a full compliment of healthy Natls. for an entire season, someone always gets injured and plans have to be adjusted.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 17, 2025, 04:40:07 PMThe more Natls. they have capable of starting the better, if they have 8 good chance 2 or 3 could be wiped out by injuries at some point, then they're forced to start someone like Gauthier and lose ability. They'll never have a full compliment of healthy Natls. for an entire season, someone always gets injured and plans have to be adjusted.

Exactly, having 8 or 9 means you can have an injury or two without a drop off in play... finding and plugging in an INT for an injured NAT is a lot easier than finding another equal quality NAT.  Having excess starting quality NATs is not a luxury, it is a huge benefit.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 17, 2025, 04:07:01 PMI don't think a 3 INT Oline is in the plans except as an emergency.  We have 2 very good prospects coming to camp, and have Wallace with a year under his belt.  We heave a plethora of NAT DT's, so you inow one will start. We don't know if FS is going NAT this year, it could easily.  And we still have NAT RB, SB and WR's the same as last year. 

According to Walters, it is.

I am thinking Randolf slots in for Dobson, but Wallace may surprise at TC, would be nice to have some flex in our ratio

Quote from: Jesse on February 17, 2025, 07:46:34 PMAccording to Walters, it is.

I think he said it was a possibility, but he did not define which direction they would go.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 18, 2025, 02:34:38 AMI think he said it was a possibility, but he did not define which direction they would go.

That's what I said, that's it's a possibility.

For all our sakes, I hope they don't make the decision until they see the guys on the field.

"Except as an emergency"

So, yes, it will be considered.  But it would take a complete crapping of the bed by both Wallace and Eli, no new OG stepping up, and/or and injury/aging out of Neufeld (KMan injury slots Eli in). 

Hence, emergency.  I do not think there is any way that we start a 3 INT Oline with our present roster otherwise.

Will we toy with it again in preseason like we did last year?  No doubt.

But opening day roster I will give 5-1 odds will be 3 NATS.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 18, 2025, 03:51:31 PM"Except as an emergency"

So, yes, it will be considered.  But it would take a complete crapping of the bed by both Wallace and Eli, no new OG stepping up, and/or and injury/aging out of Neufeld (KMan injury slots Eli in). 

Hence, emergency.  I do not think there is any way that we start a 3 INT Oline with our present roster otherwise.

Will we toy with it again in preseason like we did last year?  No doubt.

But opening day roster I will give 5-1 odds will be 3 NATS.

When we needed a guard last year, it was Randolph going in, not Wallace. I don't think it's a total long shot to think he could win the spot next year, especially with Walters bringing it up as an option.

I just hope that staff is going to let players decide and not make the determinations in February like you seem to be doing.

Quote from: Jesse on February 18, 2025, 04:54:10 PMWhen we needed a guard last year, it was Randolph going in, not Wallace. I don't think it's a total long shot to think he could win the spot next year, especially with Walters bringing it up as an option.

I just hope that staff is going to let players decide and not make the determinations in February like you seem to be doing.

Last year we were starting 9 - 10 Canadians. At the moment we've lost two Canadian starters. So there is more of a ratio issue than we would have had in 2024.

It may come down to whether we have a better choice to start a Canadian at safety or at OG. If we feel we NEED to start an import at safety then starting a Canadian at OG becomes more of an issue. It would still be possible but not as preferable ratio wise IMO.

Quote from: Jesse on February 18, 2025, 04:54:10 PMWhen we needed a guard last year, it was Randolph going in, not Wallace. I don't think it's a total long shot to think he could win the spot next year, especially with Walters bringing it up as an option.

I just hope that staff is going to let players decide and not make the determinations in February like you seem to be doing.

Last year, Wallace was a raw rookie.  This year, he has a year of pro play under his belt. 

Randolph had a year more pro exposure, TC with Seattle last year, and the product of Alabama Crimson tide, where he started at G, T and TE.   

We were starting 9 NAT's, so could slot the more experienced Randolph in.  But I think we want Randolph more as a future replacement for Bryant and possibly a DI for ingame replacement of Lofton or Bryant.

Wallace should be our LG out of camp, Randolph either beats out Lofton for RT or is a DI.  Eli is 6th man.  That is how I see the Oline going this year.  With Vanterpool and the other recruits and draft picks being wildcards.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 18, 2025, 06:16:47 PMLast year, Wallace was a raw rookie.  This year, he has a year of pro play under his belt. 

Randolph had a year more pro exposure, TC with Seattle last year, and the product of Alabama Crimson tide, where he started at G, T and TE.   

We were starting 9 NAT's, so could slot the more experienced Randolph in.  But I think we want Randolph more as a future replacement for Bryant and possibly a DI for ingame replacement of Lofton or Bryant.

Wallace should be our LG out of camp, Randolph either beats out Lofton for RT or is a DI.  Eli is 6th man.  That is how I see the Oline going this year.  With Vanterpool and the other recruits and draft picks being wildcards.

Another consideration is if a team does not provide a Natl. O-lineman with a chance to start within his first few years, he might look for a team that will give him a better opportunity when FA rolls around, especially if from originally from another region. Not many would be content to watch the years tick by like Eli has. One advantage being a limited quantity Natl. asset has over an easier to find and replace Import.

https://3downnation.com/2025/02/19/what-the-winnipeg-blue-bombers-top-free-agents-got-paid-how-they-fit-into-the-roster/

Quote from: Ridermania on February 14, 2025, 10:42:32 PMLucky has retired.

https://3downnation.com/2025/02/14/former-all-star-cfl-receiver-lucky-whitehead-retires-from-pro-football/

Lucky has embarked upon a coaching career, receivers and special teams. He'll do great at this.

https://x.com/Luck2fastt/status/1892618481616470054

Curious question for the those on here that follow this alot closer than I do....who is left in free agency that
the Bombers may want or need to pursue?

Thanks
Hawk

Or is there a list of CFL free agency players still available somewhere?

Quote from: Blueforlife on February 20, 2025, 12:16:14 AMhttps://3downnation.com/2025/02/19/what-the-winnipeg-blue-bombers-top-free-agents-got-paid-how-they-fit-into-the-roster/

Yeah, I book marked that to see how things progress during TC. It's obviously early so things can change dramatically due to injury, performance in TC and SMS considerations.

A couple of things I noticed which are interesting but not written in stone.

1. T. Wilson and Dolegala listed as # 4 and # 5 QB's.  The competition seems to be set for our # 3 QB and not our # 2 QB. I'd prefer Wilson landed on the AR so he might actually get some playing time. I'm not sure how the other 2 would accept a PR spot. Not even sure Wilson would either.

However, we haven't heard how teams are supposed to deal with their extra $400K SMS. Perhaps we see teams stash 2 players on the 1 game IR ( 1 extra QB and maybe a receiver ) etc just to keep them around. Not the best use of the money but it is an option.

2. J. Jones is listed ahead of K. Wilson at WIL and there were comments that he's pencilled in there. While having K. Wilson as a DI is not the worst idea, it might bump Ayers off the AR just due to ratio.

Initially our DI's will be Castillo and Logan. IMO we'll have an extra import DB or DL as a DI. Both could be rookies at this point. That means any import LB as a DI is fighting against those 2 choices.

All of that may be decided on performance of the depth at relative positions. Technically we have stronger Canadian depth at LB than in the secondary.

3. As I suggested earlier, we have some tough choices regarding our import receiver decisions. Receiver would seem to be the least likely choice for a DI since we have Logan and he'd fill that role in game.

4. Chris-Ike is listed at FB. I guess he needs to make a mark showing what he is capable of doing. No one else is currently listed at FB and he's not listed as the back up RB.

Quote from: Bluehawk on February 20, 2025, 05:40:32 PMOr is there a list of CFL free agency players still available somewhere?

There is a list on CFL.CA but by my count it's down to less than 60 players. I wouldn't say none are of interest but this is down to mostly depth level players. I guess it depends on where we think we might want to improve and I'm not sure regardless of who is left.

There are a few Canadian OL available. Chungh comes to mind. I don't know if he'll continue playing or would be affordable.

Like every off season I wonder if we see some sort of trade. However we don't exactly have players we want to see gone to gain elsewhere.

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 20, 2025, 05:45:27 PMThere is a list on CFL.CA but by my count it's down to less than 60 players. I wouldn't say none are of interest but this is down to mostly depth level players. I guess it depends on where we think we might want to improve and I'm not sure regardless of who is left.

There are a few Canadian OL available. Chungh comes to mind. I don't know if he'll continue playing or would be affordable.

Like every off season I wonder if we see some sort of trade. However we don't exactly have players we want to see gone to gain elsewhere.

Can't see why Chungh wouldn't have been picked up already unless he's sending out negative vibes about moving away from Vancouver or refusing to take a paycut. I've never seen him play anywhere else but RG, so not sure how flexible he is on changing position.

when you have the fifth ranked O line in the league, an expensive, badly performing offence, an quarterback who is at the end of his career, and on whom the team is completely and utterly dependant,

You should have an o line that consists of the best players to protect him.

Last season there were more than a few games where Zach was besieged by opposing D lineman.including the Grey Cup.

Make sacrifices elsewhere.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 20, 2025, 06:31:46 PMCan't see why Chungh wouldn't have been picked up already unless he's sending out negative vibes about moving away from Vancouver or refusing to take a paycut. I've never seen him play anywhere else but RG, so not sure how flexible he is on changing position.

Sure but there are only 8 other teams and not everyone of them will need another OL regardless of the SMS hit.

If he wants to play in 2025 or beyond he'll have to deal with those teams that have an interest.

He'll have to be considered an upgrade and an effective SMS cost and that may no longer be true. I don't see a problem in switching to LG from RG, but there is always the option of Neufeld making that switch as well.

At least he did play in Winnipeg before so that might have SOME value to him if he can't play in Vancouver.

There are some other Canadian OL available but I have no idea whether the Bombers are speaking with any of them.

The 2025 draft doesn't seem to have many in the top 20-30 players ranked.

Quote from: Bluehawk on February 20, 2025, 05:40:32 PMOr is there a list of CFL free agency players still available somewhere?

(OL). Chungh would be a nice upgrade from Dobson. At the right price.


Or a guy like Landon Rice as an experienced backup OL. More of an insurance policy. 


Like to get another (DL). Howsare would be an excellent pickup.

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 20, 2025, 07:13:36 PMSure but there are only 8 other teams and not everyone of them will need another OL regardless of the SMS hit.

If he wants to play in 2025 or beyond he'll have to deal with those teams that have an interest.

He'll have to be considered an upgrade and an effective SMS cost and that may no longer be true. I don't see a problem in switching to LG from RG, but there is always the option of Neufeld making that switch as well.

At least he did play in Winnipeg before so that might have SOME value to him if he can't play in Vancouver.

There are some other Canadian OL available but I have no idea whether the Bombers are speaking with any of them.

The 2025 draft doesn't seem to have many in the top 20-30 players ranked.

Walters already held his annual summary of FA presser, I fear he may be done shopping.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 20, 2025, 07:40:26 PMWalters already held his annual summary of FA presser, I fear he may be done shopping.

That was based on the 2025 SMS before finding out there was another $400K. So depending on what we hear from the CFLPA on what the expectation was on how to spend this money. There must have been a plan on what to do once money from revenue sharing came to light.

I didn't think that would fall into just adding more expensive players. I thought it would fall in some version of sharing that money across the spectrum of the roster. Raising ELC and the bottom of the roster etc etc.

So adding a $140 - $160K OL or DL don't seem to fall into that category. OTOH, the ELKS may be deciding to do exactly that with their free wheeling free agent acquisitions.

Walters may also be good with using Wallace at LG or willing to bend the ratio using Randolph or another import OL we have or bring into TC. We do have 2 draft choices coming back from 2024, so they MIGHT be in the mix although that seems unlikely as a starter this season.

If we go 3 import OL, another Canadian OL wouldn't necessarily be needed as a 6 OL unless he bumps Wallace or Eli.

So hypothetically what would the right price be for Chungh?  I think if he's deemed good enough to start than similar money to our other 2 Canadian starters makes sense ( So $140K at most )??

Chungh's last contract:  He got the 190 max value. He'll be 33 by TC start this year.

I would imagine he's holding out for more than he's been offered.  Good move for himself I think. Injury possibilities and the increased salary cap work in his favor. He can be patient.

3downnation:

Sukh Chungh, B.C. Lions (N)

Hard money: $155,000
Maximum value: $190,000

At 31 years old, it seems that Chungh values certainty in his contracts. The homegrown right guard received a $50,000 signing bonus to re-up with the team this offseason and will collect another $35,000 bonus the first time he plays one percent of snaps in a game, with no other incentives written into his contract. /b]

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 20, 2025, 08:16:36 PMThat was based on the 2025 SMS before finding out there was another $400K. So depending on what we hear from the CFLPA on what the expectation was on how to spend this money. There must have been a plan on what to do once money from revenue sharing came to light.

I didn't think that would fall into just adding more expensive players. I thought it would fall in some version of sharing that money across the spectrum of the roster. Raising ELC and the bottom of the roster etc etc.

I don't think the CFLPA can dictate how extra revenue is spent without re-negotiating  the CBA, they should be deliriously happy if teams are spending it on players.

If this bonus is from revenue sharing, I'd like to know the breakdown that occurred between the have and the have nots. 

Has anyone heard a single word about where the extra revenue came from?  Kinda miss Ambrosie, he was good a good communicator.

The Chungh situation is interesting. Here's a guy who left us for more money and a chance to play at home, now it appears he's not going to give a hometown discount for the SMS strapped Lions, and no other team comes calling. I m thinking they're waiting for an injury and will do a rental agreement with him if the situation arises, and it may not. And on the other hand, we loose 1st year starter Dobson to Hamilton for more $$---what did he sign for?? Funny how one guy after 1 season gets more money and the other guy is a proven vet is allowed to sit and wait. must be huge cost difference in salaries.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 20, 2025, 09:03:55 PMI don't think the CFLPA can dictate how extra revenue is spent without re-negotiating  the CBA, they should be deliriously happy if teams are spending it on players.

If this bonus is from revenue sharing, I'd like to know the breakdown that occurred between the have and the have nots. 

Has anyone heard a single word about where the extra revenue came from?  Kinda miss Ambrosie, he was good a good communicator.

My point was didn't they do that when they created a revenue sharing plan in the 1st place in the CBA.  Wouldn't their focus have been on this going to the players is some sort of formula? By definition that is the " sharing " of revenue they asked for.

I don't see it as a sharing between the have and have nots. The SMS goes up by the same amount for each team. It is a profitability issue.

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 20, 2025, 05:42:48 PMYeah, I book marked that to see how things progress during TC. It's obviously early so things can change dramatically due to injury, performance in TC and SMS considerations.

A couple of things I noticed which are interesting but not written in stone.

1. T. Wilson and Dolegala listed as # 4 and # 5 QB's.  The competition seems to be set for our # 3 QB and not our # 2 QB. I'd prefer Wilson landed on the AR so he might actually get some playing time. I'm not sure how the other 2 would accept a PR spot. Not even sure Wilson would either.

However, we haven't heard how teams are supposed to deal with their extra $400K SMS. Perhaps we see teams stash 2 players on the 1 game IR ( 1 extra QB and maybe a receiver ) etc just to keep them around. Not the best use of the money but it is an option.

2. J. Jones is listed ahead of K. Wilson at WIL and there were comments that he's pencilled in there. While having K. Wilson as a DI is not the worst idea, it might bump Ayers off the AR just due to ratio.

Initially our DI's will be Castillo and Logan. IMO we'll have an extra import DB or DL as a DI. Both could be rookies at this point. That means any import LB as a DI is fighting against those 2 choices.

All of that may be decided on performance of the depth at relative positions. Technically we have stronger Canadian depth at LB than in the secondary.

3. As I suggested earlier, we have some tough choices regarding our import receiver decisions. Receiver would seem to be the least likely choice for a DI since we have Logan and he'd fill that role in game.

4. Chris-Ike is listed at FB. I guess he needs to make a mark showing what he is capable of doing. No one else is currently listed at FB and he's not listed as the back up RB.

Fantastic write up

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 20, 2025, 09:03:55 PMI don't think the CFLPA can dictate how extra revenue is spent without re-negotiating  the CBA, they should be deliriously happy if teams are spending it on players.

If this bonus is from revenue sharing, I'd like to know the breakdown that occurred between the have and the have nots. 

Has anyone heard a single word about where the extra revenue came from?  Kinda miss Ambrosie, he was good a good communicator.

When Justin Dunk was talking about this, he said the CFL is so behind in sharing the audits from previous seasons with the CFLPA, that they've had to file a grievance to get these numbers. And that the financial year that this surplus same from was not from last year, but from 2 years ago (iirc).

So I think we're in uncharted waters because the league itself has broken their CBA responsibility by not filing this with the CFLPA as they were supposed to, and revealed this unexpectedly into FA, so there is negotiations happening. Which is why Walters is in wait and see mode with the new money ( along with other GMs).

Quote from: Jesse on February 21, 2025, 10:34:36 AMWhen Justin Dunk was talking about this, he said the CFL is so behind in sharing the audits from previous seasons with the CFLPA, that they've had to file a grievance to get these numbers. And that the financial year that this surplus same from was not from last year, but from 2 years ago (iirc).

So I think we're in uncharted waters because the league itself has broken their CBA responsibility by not filing this with the CFLPA as they were supposed to, and revealed this unexpectedly into FA, so there is negotiations happening. Which is why Walters is in wait and see mode with the new money ( along with other GMs).

It doesn't change the fact that the CFLPA must have had a plan for revenue sharing once it became available. The focus could have been a combination of many things I've mentioned earlier.

1. Raise ELC
2. Raise minimum PR payments
3. Add to pension money
4. Improve medical coverage post football.
5. Increase roster size by 1 or 2 players.

It's less of a concern which ideas they choose but what exactly did they negotiate.

Quote from: Jesse on February 21, 2025, 10:34:36 AMWhen Justin Dunk was talking about this, he said the CFL is so behind in sharing the audits from previous seasons with the CFLPA, that they've had to file a grievance to get these numbers. And that the financial year that this surplus same from was not from last year, but from 2 years ago (iirc).

So I think we're in uncharted waters because the league itself has broken their CBA responsibility by not filing this with the CFLPA as they were supposed to, and revealed this unexpectedly into FA, so there is negotiations happening. Which is why Walters is in wait and see mode with the new money ( along with other GMs).

Thanks for that, was this on 3DN?  Very interesting I'm sure working with the CFL owners is like trying to heard cats, delay was probably caused by a few rogue teams that don't like to share financial info.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 21, 2025, 03:38:42 PMThanks for that, was this on 3DN?  Very interesting I'm sure working with the CFL owners is like trying to heard cats, delay was probably caused by a few rogue teams that don't like to share financial info.

I heard him talk about it on the radio a couple times immediately after the news was dropped. Not sure if he ever wrote about it.

LaPo provides a one game analysis of Shea Patterson.

Quote from: Bluehawk on February 20, 2025, 05:40:32 PMOr is there a list of CFL free agency players still available somewhere?

https://www.cfl.ca/fa25

Every year just type "/fa" and your browser history should bring the url up and you just change the last digit to the current year.  Has worked for me for 3 years now!

The ones that stand out to me as maybe still being worth a sniff IMHO (though not necessarily by us):

OL Cage
OL Rice
OL Figueroa
OL Sceviour
OL Steward
OL Chungh

RB Calver (ex-BB?)

DL Usher
DL Howsare
DL Leonard
DL Banks

DB Lee
DB Dozier
DB Roberson
DB Thompson (ex-BB?)

LB Maruo (ex-BB)

WR Moore

QB Prukop (SY)

That's some big long-time CFL names and lots of NATs on the OL list!!  Many have probably aged out and that's why they are sitting.  However, maybe there's still some life on a OG who will take closer to $100k than $200k?

Quote from: theaardvark on February 18, 2025, 06:16:47 PMWallace should be our LG out of camp, Randolph either beats out Lofton for RT or is a DI.  Eli is 6th man.  That is how I see the Oline going this year.  With Vanterpool and the other recruits and draft picks being wildcards.

I think Lofton has won that RT spot.  If Randolph gets it, it will be because of OT retirement or season-ending injury.  I see no reason to upset the continuity.

I think Lofton was at least as good as Yoshi at pass-pro.  But he is weaker at run-block.  But I think as a result we task the 6th or FB to handle that job instead.  Also leaned more on Dobson for that instead of bringing the RT around like we did so much with Yoshi.

From what I've seen, and from what KW said, I think Wallace will have to show big at LG in TC in order to stop the 3 IMP OL idea.

And no slight against Eli: I'm very glad we have a good vet 6th/7th who is superb at the jumbo/roadgrader/TE role, is a great C backup that we get to dress "for free", and yet is clearly not OG starter material and thus will never be poached in FA.  It's the best of all worlds.

The NAT hopper is very bare and I think that for '26 and '27's sake we draft the best OL this year, even if we have to trade a bunch of DPs (the reverse of '24!).

Quote from: theaardvark on February 18, 2025, 03:51:31 PMBut opening day roster I will give 5-1 odds will be 3 NATS.

I'd take that bet!  DM me if interested!

I know that we're desperate to stick to the "normal CFL 3 NAT OL", as every team is.  However, our peculiar DT, LB, RB NAT situation allows us to go 3 IMP OL if Randolph is clearly better and our hopper crop failed to materialize.

I don't think anyone wants a repeat of the first several weeks of 2024!  Randolph has another advantage in that he started a ton of games for us already in '24 and he excelled under live fire as the starting OG.  I think his performance may have raised some eyebrows on the Mafia braintrust.

So instead of 5-1 odds, I'd say it's more lie 60/40 we open with 3 NAT OL.  Yes, it's more likely, but not anywhere close to a sure thing.  Thus I'd happily rob you at 5-1!

Per 3down, I'm a bit nervous we coughed up way too much in signing bonus for some of the FAs.

Mitchell gets $148 incl $63 bonus?  Vaughters $160 incl $45 bonus?

I thought we learned our lesson giving big bonuses to players (esp in injury-prone positions!) in '24 when nearly our entire REC corps got injured?

The bonus is lost SMS-wise if they get a season-ender early.  Regular salary can be recouped on the 6GIR.

If just Mitchell & Vaughters get injured in week 1 that's $100 lost on the SMS for the whole season.  That really irks me.  Surely there's a better way?  Or are these dudes in it only for the famed bonus?

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2025, 06:21:48 AMPer 3down, I'm a bit nervous we coughed up way too much in signing bonus for some of the FAs.

Mitchell gets $148 incl $63 bonus?  Vaughters $160 incl $45 bonus?

I thought we learned our lesson giving big bonuses to players (esp in injury-prone positions!) in '24 when nearly our entire REC corps got injured?

The bonus is lost SMS-wise if they get a season-ender early.  Regular salary can be recouped on the 6GIR.

If just Mitchell & Vaughters get injured in week 1 that's $100 lost on the SMS for the whole season.  That really irks me.  Surely there's a better way?  Or are these dudes in it only for the famed bonus?

The solution is for the league to pro rate signing bonus's. There is no reason to not do that. The imports get that tax advantage with early money. The team gets an advantage with a lower contract amount.

Maybe a new commish changes that issue.

The whole idea of bonuses not being prorated is that they have a risk with the reward.

I have no issue with a few hundred K in bonuses, especially if it lands us players and has a lower $SMS total.  Its probably $40-50k more expensive to sign them and have all their salary $SMS.  So we save, but have a risk.  And what $SMS we lose if they are injured, we may save on performance bonuses that injured players wont earn.  Mitchell has a 2000yd bonus, which we would LOVE him to earn, but we for sure save that if he gets injured.

There are pluses and minuses to signing bonuses, and Walters has been around long enough to know what they are, and weigh them out prudently.

Jut saying, the Vaughters and Mitchell deals are below market value, AND they signed here.  I can see why Walters is taking the risk.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 24, 2025, 04:37:39 PMThe whole idea of bonuses not being prorated is that they have a risk with the reward.

I have no issue with a few hundred K in bonuses, especially if it lands us players and has a lower $SMS total.  Its probably $40-50k more expensive to sign them and have all their salary $SMS.  So we save, but have a risk.  And what $SMS we lose if they are injured, we may save on performance bonuses that injured players wont earn.  Mitchell has a 2000yd bonus, which we would LOVE him to earn, but we for sure save that if he gets injured.

There are pluses and minuses to signing bonuses, and Walters has been around long enough to know what they are, and weigh them out prudently.

Jut saying, the Vaughters and Mitchell deals are below market value, AND they signed here.  I can see why Walters is taking the risk.

Again, what's the point of creating a risk / reward system? Not only that, for the most part it's for the benefit of imports due to the tax break.

Isn't this the Canadian football league? That's my argument.

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 24, 2025, 01:47:37 PMThe solution is for the league to pro rate signing bonus's. There is no reason to not do that. The imports get that tax advantage with early money. The team gets an advantage with a lower contract amount.

Maybe a new commish changes that issue.

I agree with aards on this one. Signing bonuses are a part of the negotiation process and GMs who use them to sign players shouldn't get breaks from the risk of doing so.

Quote from: Jesse on February 24, 2025, 05:58:18 PMI agree with aards on this one. Signing bonuses are a part of the negotiation process and GMs who use them to sign players shouldn't get breaks from the risk of doing so.

That's not really true. It's the result of an American tax break for import players. It's only a risk because of the current rule or whatever it's called. If the US eliminated that tax break, it would disappear. There is nothing stopping the league from changing this rule.

It potentially can result in an uneven playing field if a high paid player with a bonus is injured for an extended time.

Example: A QB gets a contract worth $600K which includes $200K signing bonus and is lost for the season in TC. Now they are restricted from both a talent and a financial issue trying to replace that talent ( via trade ) etc.

We know teams accept the current risk, but that doesn't mean we need to continue creating a risk situation.

The player benefits from the early money. The team benefits from lower overall salaries. There is no benefit to the league to create the risk aspect. That's a very simple argument.

To be clear, the risk that matters is not that we have to pay money to players in the tub.  "Real money" is irrelevant.  The risk is the hit to the SMS when the expensive players get season-ending injuries.  That's the thing that hamstrings your team.  Just as BinBC said.

We saw that firsthand last season.

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 24, 2025, 04:47:19 PMAgain, what's the point of creating a risk / reward system? Not only that, for the most part it's for the benefit of imports due to the tax break.

Isn't this the Canadian football league? That's my argument.

It's not really as big a deal as you're making it out to be and it's bad business - that's primary why they don't do it. Allow me to explain. There isn't a substantially larger risk/reward with a bonus versus salary. Both need to be accounted for in the exact same way going into week 1.

Yes, you get SMS exemption on game cheques when a player is hurt when it's salary, but the idea behind that is it allows teams the ability to backfill injuries (game cheques) while staying onside with the SMS. There isn't a long line of highly paid backups in the CFL. When a starter goes down, it's almost certainly an ELC (or close to it) back-up replacing him.

In practice, consider there is no second Dalton Schoen on the roster or available as a Free Agent once the season starts. If Schoen makes $250,000 and he gets $100,000 up front, the full $250,000 still needs to be considered week 1 because he might play every game (all of that is money that can't be spent anymore). If he gets hurt for the season in week 5, the team has spent ~$41,665 dollars in game cheques (plus bonus) so the ~$108,500 difference exceeds the cost of his ELC replacement (but not by SO much 13 games at $70,000 is ~$50,500). There isn't another $250,000 free agent receiver to sign in August anyway so if you shelter the signing bonus also all you're doing is adding cost for all the teams who will tack those injury dollars onto extensions in December, thereby significantly increasing the actual player expenditures, which the league doesn't want to do.

To summarize, what they mostly want is for spent dollars to be spent and to count towards the cap as much as possible because the whole point of the SMS is to control player expenses under the limit set. Expensive injured starters get replaced by cheaper back-ups and the game day cheques can be somewhat similar when you factor out the bonus. The system has some flexibility for contacts for guys who get hurt (it makes sense to pay out smaller bonuses to guys often hurt players) but by in large, what I described above is how they want it to work.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 24, 2025, 07:40:30 PMIt's not really as big a deal as you're making it out to be and it's bad business - that's primary why they don't do it. Allow me to explain. There isn't a substantially larger risk/reward with a bonus versus salary. Both need to be accounted for in the exact same way going into week 1.

Yes, you get SMS exemption on game cheques when a player is hurt when it's salary, but the idea behind that is it allows teams the ability to backfill injuries (game cheques) while staying onside with the SMS. There isn't a long line of highly paid backups in the CFL. When a starter goes down, it's almost certainly an ELC (or close to it) back-up replacing him.

In practice, consider there is no second Dalton Schoen on the roster or available as a Free Agent once the season starts. If Schoen makes $250,000 and he gets $100,000 up front, the full $250,000 still needs to be considered week 1 because he might play every game (all of that is money that can't be spent anymore). If he gets hurt for the season in week 5, the team has spent ~$41,665 dollars in game cheques (plus bonus) so the ~$108,500 difference exceeds the cost of his ELC replacement (but not by SO much 13 games at $70,000 is ~$50,500). There isn't another $250,000 free agent receiver to sign in August anyway so if you shelter the signing bonus also all you're doing is adding cost for all the teams who will tack those injury dollars onto extensions in December, thereby significantly increasing the actual player expenditures, which the league doesn't want to do.

To summarize, what they mostly want is for spent dollars to be spent and to count towards the cap as much as possible because the whole point of the SMS is to control player expenses under the limit set. Expensive injured starters get replaced by cheaper back-ups and the game day cheques can be somewhat similar when you factor out the bonus. The system has some flexibility for contacts for guys who get hurt (it makes sense to pay out smaller bonuses to guys often hurt players) but by in large, what I described above is how they want it to work.

There is a 1 game IR and a 6 game IR.  A highly paid player might only miss 4 games while another might miss the entire season. Situations vary as to impact.  Bombers lost some highly paid players with bonus money in 2023 as well. We only added ELC players and we went over the SMS by $24K. Will we be surprised if that happens again form the 2024 seasons? Similarly we only added ELC players and Whitehead. 

A $90K bonus for a player that misses 6 games = is $5k per game not pro rated. If you add and ELC player to the AR for 6 games, that's $4k per game = $24K of new cost.

We discussed how the marketing money could be abused since it is exempt from the SMS. The CFL is not perfect. That's another example of errors by the league.

It was just announced that the SMS went up by $400K after all the free agent frenzy. No one has said where this extra money will go. That's another example of how not " this is how they want it to work ".

I think you're giving too much credit to the league and " this is how they want it to work ".

On this we'll agree to disagree.

Fine, but so you know, your suggestion pays the players more overall and if there is one thing the teams are all aligned on with the league, it's that. Guaranteed.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 24, 2025, 07:40:30 PMIn practice, consider there is no second Dalton Schoen on the roster or available as a Free Agent once the season starts.

Often, but not always.  You're forgetting the NFL returnees and/or guys who sat on the couch waiting for the big payday from a desperate team.

There was a top-3 QB available mid-season last year for any team that had a season-ender for their starter... Rourke.  Also Betts.  And Mack.  In previous years didn't Henoc M. return mid-season and shop himself around aggressively?  Many such examples.  And then there's guys just sitting waiting for the big payday like Lemon.

If the bonuses were SMS exempt after a season-ender, then we could have looked at Mack to fill our roster that was missing Schoen (if we were so inclined).  (What would our GC have looked like with Mack in place of Wheatie?)

So it definitely can have a real world impact most every season, especially in ones where there are many injuries to big-name starters.

I don't want to relitigate the above, I just wanted to maybe see less/smaller front-end bonuses doled out to WPG players this year.  Once bitten, twice reduced bonuses.  Offering some of the middling guys $40-$60 signing bonuses is a bit surprising to me.  But at least they aren't $100k+ (at least not for the new FAs... what Dalton got remains to be seen).

Maybe after the horrendous '24 this will be "our year" to be lucky on the injury front.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 24, 2025, 08:23:44 PMFine, but so you know, your suggestion pays the players more overall and if there is one thing the teams are all aligned on with the league, it's that. Guaranteed.

Ya, but any team that suffers outlandish injuries to high-end players (WPG 2024) is going to be weaker as a result.  The whole team (and fan base) suffers.

Ask KW if he would like to have been gifted the $150-$200k SMS space we "lost" (due to 6GIR signing bonus losses) for some late-season pickups... I'm sure he'd have jumped at that instead of starting 3 rookie RECs in the GC.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2025, 10:11:12 PMOften, but not always.  You're forgetting the NFL returnees and/or guys who sat on the couch waiting for the big payday from a desperate team.

There was a top-3 QB available mid-season last year for any team that had a season-ender for their starter... Rourke.  Also Betts.  And Mack.  In previous years didn't Henoc M. return mid-season and shop himself around aggressively?  Many such examples.  And then there's guys just sitting waiting for the big payday like Lemon.

If the bonuses were SMS exempt after a season-ender, then we could have looked at Mack to fill our roster that was missing Schoen (if we were so inclined).  (What would our GC have looked like with Mack in place of Wheatie?)

So it definitely can have a real world impact most every season, especially in ones where there are many injuries to big-name starters.

I don't want to relitigate the above, I just wanted to maybe see less/smaller front-end bonuses doled out to WPG players this year.  Once bitten, twice reduced bonuses.  Offering some of the middling guys $40-$60 signing bonuses is a bit surprising to me.  But at least they aren't $100k+ (at least not for the new FAs... what Dalton got remains to be seen).

Maybe after the horrendous '24 this will be "our year" to be lucky on the injury front.

Yes and even in those cases you're going to pay a guy a pro rated $220,000 for 5-6 regular season games left. So ~$61,000 ish. You're not paying out big signing bonuses in September.

Can these small receivers that have signed be an option to return kicks ?

Henoc Muamba??? Really? Are you kidding?

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 24, 2025, 10:11:12 PMOften, but not always.  You're forgetting the NFL returnees and/or guys who sat on the couch waiting for the big payday from a desperate team.

There was a top-3 QB available mid-season last year for any team that had a season-ender for their starter... Rourke.  Also Betts.  And Mack.  In previous years didn't Henoc M. return mid-season and shop himself around aggressively?  Many such examples.  And then there's guys just sitting waiting for the big payday like Lemon.

If the bonuses were SMS exempt after a season-ender, then we could have looked at Mack to fill our roster that was missing Schoen (if we were so inclined).  (What would our GC have looked like with Mack in place of Wheatie?)

So it definitely can have a real world impact most every season, especially in ones where there are many injuries to big-name starters.

I don't want to relitigate the above, I just wanted to maybe see less/smaller front-end bonuses doled out to WPG players this year.  Once bitten, twice reduced bonuses.  Offering some of the middling guys $40-$60 signing bonuses is a bit surprising to me.  But at least they aren't $100k+ (at least not for the new FAs... what Dalton got remains to be seen).

Maybe after the horrendous '24 this will be "our year" to be lucky on the injury front.

Mack was still under contract with the Als. His contract was renegotiated / extended but he was just going into his 2nd year.

Quote from: BlueFire on February 25, 2025, 11:44:31 AMCan these small receivers that have signed be an option to return kicks ?

Possibly but Logan will be doing that. Probably someone that ends up on the PR will back up if he's injured. In game, there will be another player on the AR that will be the depth. Could be a receiver or DB on the roster.

I'm not sure if Sterns makes the AR coming out of TC unless we have an injury. No knock on him but it's a ratio issue. We'll only start 3 import receivers.

Mitchell did some return work in Edmonton. Preferably we don't use a starting receiver to do that except as an in game injury to the primary returner.

Quote from: DM83 on February 25, 2025, 12:38:34 PMHenoc Muamba??? Really? Are you kidding?

(https://media.tenor.com/90dFwxuNWpMAAAAM/seinfeld-jerry.gif)

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 24, 2025, 07:04:40 PMThat's not really true. It's the result of an American tax break for import players. It's only a risk because of the current rule or whatever it's called. If the US eliminated that tax break, it would disappear. There is nothing stopping the league from changing this rule.

It potentially can result in an uneven playing field if a high paid player with a bonus is injured for an extended time.

Example: A QB gets a contract worth $600K which includes $200K signing bonus and is lost for the season in TC. Now they are restricted from both a talent and a financial issue trying to replace that talent ( via trade ) etc.

We know teams accept the current risk, but that doesn't mean we need to continue creating a risk situation.

The player benefits from the early money. The team benefits from lower overall salaries. There is no benefit to the league to create the risk aspect. That's a very simple argument.

The team gets an advantage by taking a risk.  The player accepts a lower total compesation for a better tax advantage.  Win/win.

What does the league have to do with any of it?  The player is under contract in the league.  More players end up in the league because the teams have "more" $SMS to play with due to the tax advantage.

If anything it favours the league.

If a player with significant upfront money goes down and needs to be replaced by an new player, I am sure the $SMS savings from the 6 game IR for a star player (lets say Vaughters with his $160k deal with $45 signing), that $115k in SMS should more than cover his replacement. 

I see this loophole as a way teams can take advantage of a risk for a reward, especially if they have depth.  And it actually benefits the league in allowing teams to spend less overall for more talent.

Dumb GM's will give upfront money to injury prone players and have no depth behind them and be up the creek *when* they get injured.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 25, 2025, 03:37:25 PMThe team gets an advantage by taking a risk.  The player accepts a lower total compesation for a better tax advantage.  Win/win.

What does the league have to do with any of it?  The player is under contract in the league.  More players end up in the league because the teams have "more" $SMS to play with due to the tax advantage.

If anything it favours the league.

If a player with significant upfront money goes down and needs to be replaced by an new player, I am sure the $SMS savings from the 6 game IR for a star player (lets say Vaughters with his $160k deal with $45 signing), that $115k in SMS should more than cover his replacement. 

I see this loophole as a way teams can take advantage of a risk for a reward, especially if they have depth.  And it actually benefits the league in allowing teams to spend less overall for more talent.

Dumb GM's will give upfront money to injury prone players and have no depth behind them and be up the creek *when* they get injured.

It's pretty simple math. The advance money is spent. If the advance money is pro rated ( it's already spent against operational costs ), then that pro rated money becomes available again against the SMS.

In your example, that $45K wouldn't be pro rated against all 18 games and covered in the SMS.

Therefore, in my explanation, there would be additionally $45K more available than the cost of the player going on IR. The replacement may or may not be on an ELC. If the injury happens in TC, you might find a player that is still un-signed and is more expensive.

It doesn't matter. It's money that could get spent on a better player ( if available ) or spent at year end in re-signing bonus money.

Ultimately the pot is bigger and gets spent on players.

Schoen only played in 3 games in 2024. How much of his $235K was early money that wasn't sheltered in the SMS? Same question for Lawler but he only missed 6 games. However, IIRC his early money was $90K-$100K, which equals $5K per game and $30K not covered by SMS in pro rated weekly money.

If the goal is to have as much money as possible going to the players, then this would add to pot.

Note that teams don't spend less on talent. They spend the SMS whether the have large advance money or not.

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 25, 2025, 04:58:49 PMIt's pretty simple math. The advance money is spent. If the advance money is pro rated ( it's already spent against operational costs ), then that pro rated money becomes available again against the SMS.

In your example, that $45K wouldn't be pro rated against all 18 games and covered in the SMS.

Therefore, in my explanation, there would be additionally $45K more available than the cost of the player going on IR. The replacement may or may not be on an ELC. If the injury happens in TC, you might find a player that is still un-signed and is more expensive.

It doesn't matter. It's money that could get spent on a better player ( if available ) or spent at year end in re-signing bonus money.

Ultimately the pot is bigger and gets spent on players.

Schoen only played in 3 games in 2024. How much of his $235K was early money that wasn't sheltered in the SMS? Same question for Lawler but he only missed 6 games. However, IIRC his early money was $90K-$100K, which equals $5K per game and $30K not covered by SMS in pro rated weekly money.

If the goal is to have as much money as possible going to the players, then this would add to pot.

Note that teams don't spend less on talent. They spend the SMS whether the have large advance money or not.

You miss the point entirely.  If Schoen's money was even 1/2 upfront (it wasn't even close to that, if any at all), but say it was, then we would have recouped $100k in non-upfront money, which is more than we paid Wilson to replace him.

If upfront money was $SMS protected, *EVERY* GM would bust the bank signing players from tax friendly states with upfront money.  Knowing you CAN use it as an advantage to sign a player for less overall cap hit by taking the chance he gets injured HAS to be a risk.

The way it stands, teams may take a moderate stance in giving some upfront money to eligible players to increase the net offer to the player while decreasing the $SMS cap hit.

This adds a dynamic to the negotiating process that lets more adept GM's out manoeuvre lesser GM's in landing certain free agents, and make lesser GM's make terrible mistakes with injury prone players. 

You have to think Lawlers deal has zero upfront, if Goveia gave him upfront as well as that ridiculous number, he's nuts.  And we know there can't be guaranteed 2nd year money because that's just for players re-signing with a current team to a multi year deal.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 25, 2025, 05:27:09 PMYou miss the point entirely.  If Schoen's money was even 1/2 upfront (it wasn't even close to that, if any at all), but say it was, then we would have recouped $100k in non-upfront money, which is more than we paid Wilson to replace him.

If upfront money was $SMS protected, *EVERY* GM would bust the bank signing players from tax friendly states with upfront money.  Knowing you CAN use it as an advantage to sign a player for less overall cap hit by taking the chance he gets injured HAS to be a risk.

The way it stands, teams may take a moderate stance in giving some upfront money to eligible players to increase the net offer to the player while decreasing the $SMS cap hit.

This adds a dynamic to the negotiating process that lets more adept GM's out manoeuvre lesser GM's in landing certain free agents, and make lesser GM's make terrible mistakes with injury prone players. 

You have to think Lawlers deal has zero upfront, if Goveia gave him upfront as well as that ridiculous number, he's nuts.  And we know there can't be guaranteed 2nd year money because that's just for players re-signing with a current team to a multi year deal.

Did you even read what I said? I'm not the one missing the point. It's not about whether we then activate a player for a lesser amount than the sheltered amount of SMS on 6 game IR.

Your contention is that it is in the leagues best interest to prorate signing bonuses.  That somehow it makes the league better if a team can use tax loopholes to cheat the $SMS without consequence.  That recovering $SMS to respend on replacement players is somehow a good thing.

If bonuses were $SMS recoverable in case of injury, it would actually encourage GM's to overpay oft injured players, diluting the $SMS available for all players.

I'm saying that used properly, the loophole can let a smart GM get more talent onto his team under the cap by investing in low risk for injury players.  Which is an actual benefit.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 25, 2025, 09:18:07 PMYour contention is that it is in the leagues best interest to prorate signing bonuses.  That somehow it makes the league better if a team can use tax loopholes to cheat the $SMS without consequence.  That recovering $SMS to respend on replacement players is somehow a good thing.

If bonuses were $SMS recoverable in case of injury, it would actually encourage GM's to overpay oft injured players, diluting the $SMS available for all players.

I'm saying that used properly, the loophole can let a smart GM get more talent onto his team under the cap by investing in low risk for injury players.  Which is an actual benefit.

That's my contention and yes I'm saying you're wrong. You can't predict injury and any GM that did what you suggest would be an idiot. There is more risk in doing that.

The CFL didn't create the US tax benefit. On a given team, there might be 3 or 4 players have have a large early money payment. It's unusual that even 2 on a given team are injured for an extended time.

In the case of the Bombers, those players were Lawler and Schoen where their significant bonus comes into play.  If both had been lost for the season  in TC, my suggestion would have added perhaps $150K of bonus money to be spent in addition to the balance of their salaries if pro rated.

I don't know if I can even name another player lost for the season that had a large bonus, on any team in any season. Schoen was the closest that comes to mind.  For their actual season injuries ( duration ), we might have gained $30K for Lawler missing 6 games and $40K for Schoen missing 15.

This year we have Vaughters and Mitchell getting about $100K between the two of them. The next highest is down to $15K. That's for the free agents. Not sure how much any of the other imports that were re-signed got.

Feel free to list the players on our roster that will or won't get injured in 2025. Nobody can do that, so suggesting signing low risk players is absurd. A GM certainly isn't going to " bank " on a bunch of those players to get injured long term and see that as an advantage.

It seems simple to me by paying bonuses it gives the player more security, and they get taxed less. As a result the team can pay less and the player still gets the same. (security in that if a player signs and then the team finds a better option it becomes expensive for them to be cut as the bonus still counts to the cap)
the risk to the team is that you don't get injury relief on the bonus amount.
So its a gamble on the teams part. It is significant really only on the big bonus contracts. its significant to the team in $'s and in not being able to afford to cut a player that is underperforming)

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 25, 2025, 01:36:47 PM(https://media.tenor.com/90dFwxuNWpMAAAAM/seinfeld-jerry.gif)

LMAO! :D  :D  :D

Quote from: J5V on February 25, 2025, 10:25:27 PMLMAO! :D  :D  :D

Ya, I feel the same.
I'm a football fan, not a bloody accountant!

Quote from: J5V on February 25, 2025, 10:25:27 PMLMAO! :D  :D  :D

Couldn't have said it better myself!!

Quote from: DM83 on February 25, 2025, 12:38:34 PMHenoc Muamba??? Really? Are you kidding?

Sigh.  Reading comprehension.

I was countering the theory that there are zero options for high-end players mid/late season.  I listed some clear examples of players that suddenly became available mid/late season: Rourke, Betts, etc.  (There's many every year, think up your own.)

I also recall Henoc coming back to the CFL mid-season, however I may be mistaken and it may have been in FA.  If my initial memory is correct, Henoc would make literally the perfect example of a high-priced high-talent player coming back and doing the big team-shopping tour.  If you don't like the Henoc example ("muh too long ago derp derp") then feel free to insert your own more recent example.

Bottom line for the challenged: Signing-bonus SMS relief on a week 3 season-ender on your #1 REC would provide the money needed to sign & start another #1 later in the season instead of starting Wheatfall in the GC.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 25, 2025, 05:27:09 PMYou miss the point entirely.  If Schoen's money was even 1/2 upfront (it wasn't even close to that, if any at all), but say it was, then we would have recouped $100k in non-upfront money, which is more than we paid Wilson to replace him.

The flaw in your reasoning is that teams should be satisfied being forced to start a Pokey or Wheatie in place of the intended Lawler and Schoen!  Just because Pokey turned out to be a lucky gem on ELC doesn't mean that will always be the case.

Everywhere you want to insert Pokey as your example instead insert "Wheatfall" and then reread it to see if it makes sense.

Let's say there was a late-season couch-sitter / NFL-returnee #1 REC available in 2024.  If bonus money was SMS-sheltered we probably could have afforded him, because so much bonus was "lost" because of Schoen/Kenny injuries.  As it stood we went into a GC starting (near-)rookies Clercius, Wheatfall, and (yes, lucky find) Pokey.

Yes, I realize that in 2024 there probably wasn't a #1 REC available late (if Mack was returning to his ELC contract), but that doesn't negate the argument.  There's usually some guys available in at least some/most of the positions.

Bomber Winter Special on CJOB tonight.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 26, 2025, 01:14:03 AMBomber Winter Special on CJOB tonight.

Oooh, thanks!

https://globalnews.ca/pages/audio-vault-cjob/

Feb 25, 7pm

it's already up for a late listen

(P.S. DT, it's a soaker not a booter!)

E.L.C.?
I thought that was an NHL term.?
The CFL doesn't really abide by those do they?

Quote from: DM83 on February 26, 2025, 06:37:33 AME.L.C.?
I thought that was an NHL term.?
The CFL doesn't really abide by those do they?

Not in the NHL sense. In the CFL people use ELC as a reference to the league minimum salary ($70,000).

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on February 26, 2025, 01:28:20 PMNot in the NHL sense. In the CFL people use ELC as a reference to the league minimum salary ($70,000).

And the fact they are tied down for 2 years on it (right?).

It seems clear that often the big GC contenders will be the teams that scouted the best ELCs that year or the previous year (incl DPs).  It's really one of the only ways to get a real edge in the SMS CFL... getting a clearly $200k player for $70k (think Schoen, or Ento, or Mack when they were on their ELCs).

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 26, 2025, 10:25:56 PMAnd the fact they are tied down for 2 years on it (right?).

It seems clear that often the big GC contenders will be the teams that scouted the best ELCs that year or the previous year (incl DPs).  It's really one of the only ways to get a real edge in the SMS CFL... getting a clearly $200k player for $70k (think Schoen, or Ento, or Mack when they were on their ELCs).

National draft picks get two year plus a team option year at $70,000 plus housing/bonus topping out around $85,000.

Americans have no such restrictions in their first contract.

You'll still hear people describe American players on an ELC but what they usually mean is the player is signed for near the $70,000 minimum.

Yes, but they are usually given a more appropriate contract if they make a starting spot.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 26, 2025, 10:25:56 PMAnd the fact they are tied down for 2 years on it (right?).

It seems clear that often the big GC contenders will be the teams that scouted the best ELCs that year or the previous year (incl DPs).  It's really one of the only ways to get a real edge in the SMS CFL... getting a clearly $200k player for $70k (think Schoen, or Ento, or Mack when they were on their ELCs).

Pretty sure there is a sliding scale for draft pick compensation depending on their draft order.  Higher picks get paid more...  not a huge amount, but still.  Min 2 years, but nothing stopping the team/player from signing a 3 year deal.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 27, 2025, 03:33:11 PMPretty sure there is a sliding scale for draft pick compensation depending on their draft order.  Higher picks get paid more

First I've heard that... though it kind of stands to reason.  I think I recall some sort of talk of compensation negotiation going on with a raw new DP and it struck me as odd, but I may be misremembering...

The whole DP thing is like a black box to me.  All I know is what picks fall out of it when it's shaken in March or April or whenever the draft is.  And that new DPs are cheap.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 28, 2025, 04:11:38 AMFirst I've heard that... though it kind of stands to reason.  I think I recall some sort of talk of compensation negotiation going on with a raw new DP and it struck me as odd, but I may be misremembering...

The whole DP thing is like a black box to me.  All I know is what picks fall out of it when it's shaken in March or April or whenever the draft is.  And that new DPs are cheap.

I think 1st round and possibly 2nd round draft picks sign 3 year deals. Money is higher than the bottom amount on ELC's.

It appears that most teams are done with signing those free agents remaining. There are still a few good ones, but age, injury history and / or SMS are now considerations. It's possible a few get signed as injuries happen in TC or a few retirement surprises occur?

When do we find out when the rookie tryout camps start?

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 28, 2025, 04:11:38 AMFirst I've heard that... though it kind of stands to reason.  I think I recall some sort of talk of compensation negotiation going on with a raw new DP and it struck me as odd, but I may be misremembering...

The whole DP thing is like a black box to me.  All I know is what picks fall out of it when it's shaken in March or April or whenever the draft is.  And that new DPs are cheap.

The following is from https://cfldb.ca/faq/compensation/

The 2019 CBA introduced a rookie salary structure for Nationals first contract consisting of 2 years plus a team option. Starting in 2023, a Max. Min salary (interpret as you will) is defined as $70,000 for the first two years of the contract, with a maximum housing allowance or signing/roster bonus of $7,500 per season and maximum 50% + 1 bonus based on snaps of $7,500 per season for a maximum earnings of $85,000 for first and second round picks in their first two seasons, with the third season base salary not exceeding the second year base salary by more that 10%. Third and fourth round picks have similar restrictions, except the housing allowance or signing/roster bonus is capped at $5,000 per season for a maximum earnings of $82,500. Fifth round picks and higher along with undrafted Nationals have the same restrictions except the optional housing allowance or signing/roster bonus for the first two years of the contract are capped at $2,500 limiting earnings to a maximum of $80,000 per season. There are no restrictions on the amount of contracts or bonuses for American players signing their first CFL contract. See Section 9.02 of the CBA for more details.

Seems to me having a ceiling of $85k on draft pick earnings for 2 years acts as an impediment to signing highly skilled Cdn. college players like Nathan Rourke. No wonder so many O-linemen going fishing for NFL deals straight out of school.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 28, 2025, 04:22:28 PMThe following is from https://cfldb.ca/faq/compensation/

The 2019 CBA introduced a rookie salary structure for Nationals first contract consisting of 2 years plus a team option. Starting in 2023, a Max. Min salary (interpret as you will) is defined as $70,000 for the first two years of the contract, with a maximum housing allowance or signing/roster bonus of $7,500 per season and maximum 50% + 1 bonus based on snaps of $7,500 per season for a maximum earnings of $85,000 for first and second round picks in their first two seasons, with the third season base salary not exceeding the second year base salary by more that 10%. Third and fourth round picks have similar restrictions, except the housing allowance or signing/roster bonus is capped at $5,000 per season for a maximum earnings of $82,500. Fifth round picks and higher along with undrafted Nationals have the same restrictions except the optional housing allowance or signing/roster bonus for the first two years of the contract are capped at $2,500 limiting earnings to a maximum of $80,000 per season. There are no restrictions on the amount of contracts or bonuses for American players signing their first CFL contract. See Section 9.02 of the CBA for more details.

Seems to me having a ceiling of $85k on draft pick earnings for 2 years acts as an impediment to signing highly skilled Cdn. college players like Nathan Rourke. No wonder so many O-linemen going fishing for NFL deals straight out of school.

That makes sense.

When we drafted Henoc Muamba, he signed a contract for 100k right off the bat. It was a negotiation, not a CBA determined amount.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 28, 2025, 04:22:28 PMThe following is from https://cfldb.ca/faq/compensation/

The 2019 CBA introduced a rookie salary structure for Nationals first contract consisting of 2 years plus a team option. Starting in 2023, a Max. Min salary (interpret as you will) is defined as $70,000 for the first two years of the contract, with a maximum housing allowance or signing/roster bonus of $7,500 per season and maximum 50% + 1 bonus based on snaps of $7,500 per season for a maximum earnings of $85,000 for first and second round picks in their first two seasons, with the third season base salary not exceeding the second year base salary by more that 10%. Third and fourth round picks have similar restrictions, except the housing allowance or signing/roster bonus is capped at $5,000 per season for a maximum earnings of $82,500. Fifth round picks and higher along with undrafted Nationals have the same restrictions except the optional housing allowance or signing/roster bonus for the first two years of the contract are capped at $2,500 limiting earnings to a maximum of $80,000 per season. There are no restrictions on the amount of contracts or bonuses for American players signing their first CFL contract. See Section 9.02 of the CBA for more details.

Seems to me having a ceiling of $85k on draft pick earnings for 2 years acts as an impediment to signing highly skilled Cdn. college players like Nathan Rourke. No wonder so many O-linemen going fishing for NFL deals straight out of school.

When a player declares for the draft as a NAT, he knows that his first two years are capped, but that the rest of his career is going to be at a premium.  Even if he was an uncapped American, the first contract is going to rarely be more than min wage, unless he's coming from an NFL team.  Drafted NAT's do not have to sign with their drafting team, they have the option of sitting out..

How long does a club hold a drafted player's rights for?

A club holds a player's rights for as long as he is in school or playing in another professional football league. Once a player is no longer in school or playing professional football, a team loses his rights one full calendar year following his graduation. For example, a player who graduates in April, 2008 and doesn't remain in school or play professional football would become a free agent January 1, 2010.

This is all great info, thanks all!!

If your goal is to keep costs down / knowable, then it looks like the league has done a great job.  And good NATs need to pray they don't get a career-ender in week 21 of year 2!

Ed Tait posted on social media that Brandon Alexander has announced his retirement (via FB)


** EDIT **

Ed Tait, Derek Taylor & John Hodge have all issued corrections after clarification from BA. It is not a retirement - just a farewell to Winnipeg.

Too bad for BA.  Easily still one of the better players in the Blue and all other teams.

BA was a key player for us over the years. Like most players, injuries and age add up.

Thanks for being a great Bomber, teammate and fan friendly player. You'll be remembered.

Brandon Alexander

8 years strong with 1 professional team.

To the Blue Bombers that gave me a chance to play ball again I'm grateful and hopefully everyday of my 8 years  I showed how grateful I was/am for that opportunity.

My teammates/fans over that period of time made it easy to go to put it on the line everyday.
I can't thank the fans enough that accepted me into your home of Winnipeg, Manitoba. You've seen me start my career as a 23 year old young adult. Always stood behind me and watched me grow into the football player y'all loved to cheer for. Winnipeg only shines because you all put the lights in and on the stadium. I will miss the love I've felt over the years. #1 fanbase in the CFL without a doubt.
And to my teammates, Ya'll already know what it is,

Too many memories were given to me that I will carry for the rest of my life. Can't replace that. "Love y'all boys."
37 out ✌🏾
(Not a retirement post. One day, but not today)

Quote from: Stats Junkie on March 09, 2025, 03:33:24 PMEd Tait posted on social media that Brandon Alexander has announced his retirement (via FB)


** EDIT **

Ed Tait, Derek Taylor & John Hodge have all issued corrections after clarification from BA. It is not a retirement - just a farewell to Winnipeg.

Bump, just in case anyone missed the edit.

1. Erroneous fan information. The entry level contract has a bogus "if the player and club agree":@ mutual agreement regarding a ." First year negotiation period " exists if both parties agree." This is not binding in any way, as noted by the Muamba contract, and probably Rourke. Players clearly signed a contract for no such minimum.  The term entry level contract is an entry level contract only somewhat exclusive to the NHl.

Quote from: Stats Junkie on March 09, 2025, 03:33:24 PMEd Tait posted on social media that Brandon Alexander has announced his retirement (via FB)


** EDIT **

Ed Tait, Derek Taylor & John Hodge have all issued corrections after clarification from BA. It is not a retirement - just a farewell to Winnipeg.

So he's leaving Winnipeg?? Has he signed somewhere else and I missed it??

Quote from: dd on March 10, 2025, 03:13:15 AMSo he's leaving Winnipeg?? Has he signed somewhere else and I missed it??

He wasn't re-signed by Winnipeg.  But he is not ready to retire yet.  He has not been signed by another team as of today.

BA37 should get his own send-off thread.  He came around the time Biggie did, and when we put him at FS our D was instantly legit.  His contribution to our GC run cannot be understated.

Thanks BA for all the great seasons!  You are appreciated.  Good luck on your next endeavor.

This is yet another "changing of the guard" oldsters-out casualty (Biggie, Woli, Jeffcoat, Kenny?).  The team is definitely not the same as that '19 winning team.

And it's a bit of a witch-burning moment as one of those GC TDs to Brissett had BA37 not following him on his sneaky route.  Ball went right past BA.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 10, 2025, 08:13:31 AMBA37 should get his own send-off thread.  He came around the time Biggie did, and when we put him at FS our D was instantly legit.  His contribution to our GC run cannot be understated.

Thanks BA for all the great seasons!  You are appreciated.  Good luck on your next endeavor.

This is yet another "changing of the guard" oldsters-out casualty (Biggie, Woli, Jeffcoat, Kenny?).  The team is definitely not the same as that '19 winning team.

And it's a bit of a witch-burning moment as one of those GC TDs to Brissett had BA37 not following him on his sneaky route.  Ball went right past BA.

Pretty clear BA's best playing days are behind him, but it would sure be nice to see him start off his coaching career right here in Wpg on the ground floor as an defensive assistant, he's a heart and soul guy and also a great communicator.

As a fan, I noticed his being in the "not quite right place" more so than in previous years
As a pretend teammate, I would be wondering where he was on some plays. But that can happen to anyone.

However, when it happens more than once, tan it never seemed to happen in previous years, I would think he is not able to play at his previous at times instinctual ability. My concern is that on certain defenses, safeties are specifically responsible for certain areas or players. They have to do that task.  While on others they may be "free" and can read and make choices to make plays based on their experience.

But this past year, I didn't see Alexander make too many plays of any sort. There were a couple of "hits" that bordered on violent, but didn't prevent a reception.  That was it.

I guess that opinion was felt by the coaching staff, and he was deemed expendable.
Considering the tv cameras rarely seemed to see BA making a play, maybe that observation was true.? Age and injury have caught him.

Quote from: DM83 on March 10, 2025, 12:04:28 AM1. Erroneous fan information. The entry level contract has a bogus "if the player and club agree":@ mutual agreement regarding a ." First year negotiation period " exists if both parties agree." This is not binding in any way, as noted by the Muamba contract, and probably Rourke. Players clearly signed a contract for no such minimum.  The term entry level contract is an entry level contract only somewhat exclusive to the NHl.

Huh?

Quote from: J5V on March 10, 2025, 08:51:37 PMHuh?

He's saying that players are not locked into ELC's and can, by mutual decision, be paid a lot more than the minimum.

So he wants us to stop using the term ELC.

Quote from: theaardvark on March 10, 2025, 09:39:40 PMHe's saying that players are not locked into ELC's and can, by mutual decision, be paid a lot more than the minimum.

So he wants us to stop using the term ELC.

Ahh ... okay, lol

It seems CFL.ca has taken down the Free Agent page, anyone know where else that page can be found?

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on March 11, 2025, 01:22:55 AMIt seems CFL.ca has taken down the Free Agent page, anyone know where else that page can be found?

https://www.cfl.ca/fa25

Still there.  Just remember that url and keep changing the 2 digit year every season.  Works for me for 4 years now!

Quote from: TecnoGenius on March 11, 2025, 02:17:45 AMhttps://www.cfl.ca/fa25

Still there.  Just remember that url and keep changing the 2 digit year every season.  Works for me for 4 years now!

Thanks, I usually find it off a link from their homepage but that has been removed.  Too much to hope they'll keep the list updated from this point forward I guess.