Blue Bombers Forum

Week 19 and an opportunity to lock up 1st place in the west.  The good news...a game with this much meaning is being played in Winnipeg in front of another sold out crowd.

A Winnipeg welcome awaits Chad Kelly and his Argonaut cohorts so it's guaranteed to be not only a big night but a fun night to be at this important game.

Today's Injury Report states Gabe Wallace and Bailey Feltmate will not play in Friday night's game and several Blue Bomber players are Questionable, including Lucky Whitehead, Nic Demski, Michael Ayers, Michael Griffin, Brandon Alexander and Onaria Wilson.  Demski and Wilson participated fully in the October 9th practice but the others did not.

The Argos will be missing Woody Baron, Brandon Calver, Adam Guillemette and Fraser Sopik.  Tunde Adeleke is listed as questionable.

The full Bomber injury report follows...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GZeqCY5XkAAR8vr?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Ed Tait's 48-Hour Primer can be read here. (http://www.bluebombers.com/2024/10/09/48-hour-primer-week-19/)

Weather report calls for a partly cloudy evening on game day with an evening temperature of 11 degrees and winds at 7 k/m per hour with gusts to 21 k/m per hour.

Let's lock up first place and a home date in the Western Final.  Go Bombers!

Total guess but we'll probably be out Alexander, Griffin and Ayers. Wilson, Demski and Whitehead I'm sure are good.

Ed Tait  @EdTaitWFC
The @Wpg_BlueBombers roster for tomorrow features two changes: off are safety Brandon Alexander and LB Michael Ayers, on are DB Marquise Bridges and LB Bryce Notree. Jake Kelly starts at safety for Alexander; Brian Cole at LB for Ayers. Both Alexander and Ayers were moved to the one-game injured list.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GZiLswBaAAMi5Uj?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

DB Jake Kelly to make first career CFL start for Winnipeg Blue Bombers vs. Argonauts
By John Hodge -October 10, 2024

Jake Kelly will make his first career CFL start when the Winnipeg Blue Bombers host the Toronto Argonauts on Friday night.

The Canadian defensive back was a second-round pick in the 2023 CFL Draft out of Bishop's University. He has since dressed for 18 regular season games with the Blue Bombers, recording four defensive tackles, 10 special teams tackles, and one forced fumble. The 25-year-old will start at safety in place of the injured Brandon Alexander.

The five-foot-eleven, 179-pound native of Markham, Ont. was one of the top testers at the CFL Combine last year, running a 4.56-second forty-yard dash and leaping 40.5 inches in the vertical jump. At the U Sports level, he recorded 60 total tackles, 1.5 tackles for loss, 16 pass knockdowns, three interceptions, two touchdowns, one forced fumble, and 29 punt returns for 250 yards over 25 games.

Brandon Alexander, Winnipeg's longtime starting safety, has been moved to the one-game injured list with a hand injury. It's unclear whether the injury is short-term or long-term as players can't be added to the six-game injured list this late in the regular season.

Rookie linebacker Michael Ayers has also been moved to the one-game injured list with a hip injury with Brian Cole taking over the starting job at weak-side lineback. Bryce Notree, the former member of the Montreal Alouettes who was signed this past week, will dress in a depth role.

Winnipeg has won eight straight games and can clinch first place in the West Division with a victory over the Argonauts. The two teams haven't met since late July when a Tarvarus McFadden pick-six fueled a 16-14 Toronto win at BMO Field.

This week will mark Chad Kelly's first career start against Winnipeg as he was suspended during their first meeting. He has gone 3-3 as a starter this season, throwing for 1,917 yards, six touchdowns, and eight interceptions.

The Blue Bombers (10-6) will host the Toronto Argonauts (8-7) at Princess Auto Stadium on Friday, Oct. 10 with kickoff slated for 8:30 p.m. EDT.

https://3downnation.com/2024/10/10/db-jake-kelly-to-make-first-career-cfl-start-for-winnipeg-blue-bombers-vs-argonauts/

Teams are not allowed to move players to the 6 game IR at this point. So we don't exactly know how serious the injuries to Alexander and Ayers might be. Anyone have more info?

I'm concerned that Whitehead, Demski, Wilson and Wheatfall are not 100% but we choose to not add another receiver for depth.

Kelly starting at safety is a bit of a surprise over Hallett? I guess the option still exists if necessary but with all the import DB's on our PR and none of them can play at safety?


We're back to starting 10 Canadians if I have the count correct. If they continue to win, then maybe we should be starting more. lol

Really glad to see Griffin in the lineup, hes been very good at playing both lb positions. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get some safety reps too.
Hes a baller

Quote from: Pete on October 10, 2024, 03:30:32 PMReally glad to see Griffin in the lineup, hes been very good at playing both lb positions. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get some safety reps too.
Hes a baller

Yes but he's another player that didn't take any reps in practice this week. He could be somewhat limited due to health?

Argos lose Sopik at LB and he's been a factor for them in 2024.

pretty much 50% od the team is playing with some sort of issue, but with the way Younger rotates in pretty much everyone on d, they should still be effective

Little surprised that Woli82 isn't back yet. Has been running hard in practice, looks fit and ready to go. But, I guess with Clercius playing well no need to rush him back.

Quote from: Blue In BC on October 10, 2024, 03:17:26 PMTeams are not allowed to move players to the 6 game IR at this point. So we don't exactly know how serious the injuries to Alexander and Ayers might be. Anyone have more info?

I'm concerned that Whitehead, Demski, Wilson and Wheatfall are not 100% but we choose to not add another receiver for depth.

Kelly starting at safety is a bit of a surprise over Hallett? I guess the option still exists if necessary but with all the import DB's on our PR and none of them can play at safety?


We're back to starting 10 Canadians if I have the count correct. If they continue to win, then maybe we should be starting more. lol

Not ideal giving Jake Kelly his first start ever against a hawk like Chad Kelly, but it would have been the same last week against BLM, we'll see how he does.  Must be disheartening for the Hallett bros. to be bypassed but I guess they've been here long enough to accept they're ST lifers.

Hallet has been successfully used at the extra db position on the 3 down set. With Griffin nicked up nick will get reps there as well as safety. I like Kelly at safety hes got good speed and if he shows well could give us a cdn safety next year '(who knows if ford will be here if some team offers him a stupid amt especially to get him and his brother) Which will continue to give us flexibility ration wise.

Quote from: Pigskin on October 10, 2024, 04:03:44 PMLittle surprised that Woli82 isn't back yet. Has been running hard in practice, looks fit and ready to go. But, I guess with Clercius playing well no need to rush him back.

That's odd. Are you sure? He was placed on the 6-game after the Banjo Bowl and he's only been out three games. My understanding is you cannot practice until four games missed (2 left to return).

Quote from: Pete on October 10, 2024, 03:54:48 PMpretty much 50% od the team is playing with some sort of issue, but with the way Younger rotates in pretty much everyone on d, they should still be effective

This is kind of what I came here to say.

I wouldn't get too caught up in who is "starting". Our depth chart is mostly to check a box that they need to do. It doesn't mean much.

Quote from: Pigskin on October 10, 2024, 04:03:44 PMLittle surprised that Woli82 isn't back yet. Has been running hard in practice, looks fit and ready to go. But, I guess with Clercius playing well no need to rush him back.

It would resolve the depth at receiver without impacting the ratio ( Weitz would come off ). Even if Clercius gets the majority of reps while Woli is eased back in, that's a good thing.

So, another game starting 10 Nats...

Not sure the Kelly/Hallett/Hallett FS spot excites me, but lets see what they can do.

One of the Hallets appeared to be victimized for two touchdown passes a few games ago.

plays in the red zone, forget the opponent.

just watching on tv so who knows, but it did not look promising to me. Not sure if he was benched in that game.

(https://scontent.fcxh2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/462623115_1066164478212050_865707849919320262_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640_tt6&_nc_cat=108&cb=99be929b-6bbdfb60&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=r_aOY0FUhNAQ7kNvgG92dVq&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh2-1.fna&_nc_gid=ADSzpcMlepe8w4iHsxcf5dw&oh=00_AYDBlk1yTTjSBe2fnI9VwU7r58uZqkKDBglU65NL4GvafQ&oe=670DCCF1)

They've finally made believers out of the panel.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GZiyg3CbcAAiZ6e?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

Canadian LB Fraser Sopik out for Toronto Argonauts vs. Bombers
By 3Down Staff -October 10, 2024

The Toronto Argonauts will be without Canadian linebacker Fraser Sopik when they kick off Thanksgiving weekend in the CFL on Friday.

The 27-year-old has been unable to practice this week due to a hand injury and will sit out, though the expected duration of his absence is not currently known. The Argonauts are no longer able to designate players to the six-game injured list as they have played more than 15 games this year.

Sopik has been enjoying a career year since joining the Argonauts in free agency this offseason, establishing himself as a starter at weakside linebacker. Through 15 games, he has amassed 57 defensive tackles — nearly double his previous career total of 33 — while adding six special teams tackles, a sack, and a forced fumble.

American rookie Isaac Darkangelo will take over the starting job in the interim, having notched 18 defensive tackles and a forced fumble in five appearances. Defensive tackle Jordan Williams will also dress for depth after recording 10 tackles and two sacks in six previous outings.

On special teams, long snapper Adam Guillemette will sit out after being limited throughout the week with a back injury. Rookie Simon Chaves, who was signed on Tuesday, will handle those duties.

The Toronto Argonauts (8-7) will visit the Winnipeg Blue Bombers (10-6) on Friday, October 11, at 8:30 p.m. EDT. With a victory, the Argonauts can clinch a playoff spot.

https://3downnation.com/2024/10/10/canadian-lb-fraser-sopik-out-for-toronto-argonauts-vs-bombers/

Argos have a new long snapper. Hopefully, the Bombers test him out by trying to block a few punts.

A fresh LS on a few days practice should be fun. 

ST's are going feast I think.  Opens up a lot of opportunity is the snaps are even a small amount off, especially for place kicking where you can hit the holder.  Will have to make sure they miss the punter clean...

I hope Grant doesn't come back to haunt us!!!

Quote from: Horseman on October 10, 2024, 06:56:09 PMI hope Grant doesn't come back to haunt us!!!

Well, we shut him down our last meeting. However, we will be missing Ayers who is one of our top teams play makers. Also Griffin isn't 100%. Let's hope Notree can make some plays on teams. 

Argos are dressing 9 D-linemen many of which are very good players, hopefully they won't wear down the O-line which will have little relief. They may also be able to contain Brady as they have the best run stopping defence and are leading the league in sacks at 37.

Very excited for tomorrow! We secure yet another west crown!

Chad Kelly will get a rude welcoming!

Jake Kelly hope he shows the best. Kid hits like a ton of bricks. He gets his shot!

84 gala dinner sounds like it was an amazing time. Would have loved to be there!

It will be a party tomorrow night. GO BOMBERS GO!

Quote from: Horseman on October 10, 2024, 06:56:09 PMI hope Grant doesn't come back to haunt us!!!

he won't he will get walloped.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 10, 2024, 10:21:53 PMArgos are dressing 9 D-linemen many of which are very good players, hopefully they won't wear down the O-line which will have little relief. They may also be able to contain Brady as they have the best run stopping defence in the league.

There going with 9 DL and 6 LBs, we are going with 7 DL and 9 LBs.

I also wonder if we slide Nichols or Holm into Safety at some point as we Bridges as our backup HB. 

Quote from: Pigskin on October 10, 2024, 10:35:30 PMThere going with 9 DL and 6 LBs, we are going with 7 DL and 9 LBs.

I also wonder if we slide Nichols or Holm into Safety at some point as we Bridges as our backup HB.

Kelly's combine numbers were quite good. I'm thinking Kelly takes over for Alexander next year, if we lose Ford in FA.....and if he (Kelly) plays well....

Quote from: peg_city on October 10, 2024, 11:12:13 PMKelly's combine numbers were quite good. I'm thinking Kelly takes over for Alexander next year, if we lose Ford in FA.....and if he (Kelly) plays well....

That would be a wise Plan B to investigate. Also wonder how long Kramdi has left on contract, noting he is from Montreal and may garner some special attention if he reaches FA.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 11, 2024, 12:41:25 AMThat would be a wise Plan B to investigate. Also wonder how long Kramdi has left on contract, noting he is from Montreal and may garner some special attention if he reaches FA.

Kramdi is signed through 2025.

Game Preview - Toronto at Winnipeg

Game #17: Argonauts (8-7) at Blue Bombers (10-6)

Kickoff: Friday, October 11th, 7:30 p.m. CDT; Princess Auto Stadium, Winnipeg, Mb.
TV/Streaming: TSN 1/5; RDS; CFL+
Radio: 680 CJOB
Game theme: Friday is the club's annual 'Intercept Cancer Game.'

...Consider this, too: the Blue Bombers are 37-5 at home since the start of the 2019 season and 40-5 if the last three West Finals are included.

"(Homefield advantage) means everything, especially for us here because we have a unique crowd," said receiver Kenny Lawler. "We have unique fans. They're the No. 1 fans. They're the best in the league and by far the loudest. When you have that during a playoff game it's beneficial.

"It's everything about Winnipeg at this time of year — you've got the wind, you've got the cold, you've got the sell-out crowd, you've got the fans with the energy and it's just infectious. You feed off it..."

https://www.bluebombers.com/2024/10/10/game-preview-argonauts-at-blue-bombers/

Quote from: gobombersgo on October 10, 2024, 02:33:16 PMDB Jake Kelly to make first career CFL start for Winnipeg Blue Bombers vs. Argonauts

It is absolutely nuts that we have never faced Kelly since he won the GC for TOR against us in '22 with that scramble run for 1st down when we had the game socked away.

They kept him away from us in '23 on purpose so we wouldn't destroy his confidence going into the cup... then TOR never made it to the cup!  LOL.

Then he's suspended in '24 for our first TOR match.

I know Donny C still goes to all the games, even if he's rarely on the forum now.  Does he still talk smack to the visitor bench?  I hope he's whipping up some amazing signs and lines to feed Kelly.  Some heavy demoralization never hurts!

Quote from: Blue In BC on October 10, 2024, 03:17:26 PMKelly starting at safety is a bit of a surprise over Hallett? I guess the option still exists if necessary but with all the import DB's on our PR and none of them can play at safety?

Kelly may have the higher football IQ.  Hallett had those brain toots that cost us TDs the other week.  Hallett might be more the one-task speed guy than the roving thinker type.

Kelly is way more athletic than ageing BA37 now, and I hope we'll use him more like a Dequoy than an run-stopping Loffler/BA.  I'm not sure he's stout enough to stop a downhill runner anyhow!

Quote from: Blue In BC on October 10, 2024, 03:44:26 PMArgos lose Sopik at LB and he's been a factor for them in 2024.

No Sopik is huge for us.  It increases the chances we get out injury-free.  He pushes the boundary near "dirty" territory IMHO.

Quote from: gobombersgo on October 10, 2024, 05:39:44 PMArgos have a new long snapper. Hopefully, the Bombers test him out by trying to block a few punts.

Yup, dial up the "block mode" instead of the "good return mode".  As others said on the Return thread, we don't get much of a return anyhow!

This new LS will be serving up some high/low punt snaps and some out-of-the-box FG snaps.  This causes slight delays and gives our whizzes like Hallett time to cause problems.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 10, 2024, 10:21:53 PMArgos are dressing 9 D-linemen many of which are very good players, hopefully they won't wear down the O-line which will have little relief. They may also be able to contain Brady as they have the best run stopping defence and are leading the league in sacks at 37.

That's always my biggest fear playing TO.

The DL is always relentless and wears us down in the 4th the way we normally wear down D in the 4th.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 11, 2024, 05:30:03 AMIt is absolutely nuts that we have never faced Kelly since he won the GC for TOR against us in '22 with that scramble run for 1st down when we had the game socked away.

They kept him away from us in '23 on purpose so we wouldn't destroy his confidence going into the cup... then TOR never made it to the cup!  LOL.

Then he's suspended in '24 for our first TOR match.

I know Donny C still goes to all the games, even if he's rarely on the forum now.  Does he still talk smack to the visitor bench?  I hope he's whipping up some amazing signs and lines to feed Kelly.  Some heavy demoralization never hurts!

YES HE DOES ... Donny and the crew around him including our seats 2 rows behind Donny do our part in talking smack. It's so much fun down there.

How come Donny Cruikshank never comes on here anymore?

Quote from: Jesse on October 11, 2024, 10:48:52 AMThat's always my biggest fear playing TO.

The DL is always relentless and wears us down in the 4th the way we normally wear down D in the 4th.

We need to control the ball, and that means limit turnovers,thats what beat us in the first game

Quote from: Pete on October 11, 2024, 03:38:04 PMWe need to control the ball, and that means limit turnovers,thats what beat us in the first game

Bombers lost 14-16 and Sergio also missed 2 critical FG's under 40 yds.

Quote from: Pete on October 11, 2024, 03:38:04 PMWe need to control the ball, and that means limit turnovers,thats what beat us in the first game

Agree, and keeping Grant in check is also important. Looks like some nice fall bomber weather.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 11, 2024, 03:55:49 PMBombers lost 14-16 and Sergio also missed 2 critical FG's under 40 yds.

All that and if the Bombers make a third and short in the last minute the Bombers win that game.

Quote from: gobombersgo on October 10, 2024, 02:33:16 PMDB Jake Kelly to make first career CFL start for Winnipeg Blue Bombers vs. Argonauts
By John Hodge -October 10, 2024

Jake Kelly will make his first career CFL start when the Winnipeg Blue Bombers host the Toronto Argonauts on Friday night.

3DN had to re-word this part of their article after it was pointed out that Jake Kelly will be making his second career start. He was the starting Sam/Dime in the final regular season game of 2023. It will be Kelly's first start at safety.

Quote from: bwiser on October 11, 2024, 06:06:04 PMAll that and if the Bombers make a third and short in the last minute the Bombers win that game.

Please stop. It hurts too much to think about.

Perfect weather!

Big boys will like this one.

Demski starting?

Griffin is a late scratch. McGhee is now playing.

Ben Major is the head ref.

Al Bradbury is the replay official.

Willie not on the field for that TD...make it make sense

I wish Dunnigan would shut up far far too much talk.
He just loves himself.

TD Argos. They made that look too easy. 0-7.  >:(

Tough going against the argo D

Run the ball Buck

Grant fumbles...

That means he is taking one back later

Dumb play calling.  Too far out to sneak give the ball to Brady

Argos beating us on both sides of the ball. This has been an embarrassing start. Stuffed us on two tries from the one yard line. Yikes! What's going on out there?

Castillo vs the Argos - not good

OMG! Now a missed FG. C'mon guys.

bombers aint gonna win this one

Disappointing 1st quarter
 

Argos match up well vs the bombers

Not playing like this. We lost the coin toss and it's been bad ever since. We need to wake up and join the game. Only one team ready to play in this one.

We're being pretty badly outplayed on both lines minus that one hole for Brady.

Jones continues his solid play. Big time baller.

Lucky has a bit of jump tonight.

Fg miss is what it is.

Play calling on offense seems off, Zach isn't going to get a clean pocket often. Toronto dressed 9 d linemen we have 6 o linemen. Need more quick read reads. Pass to Lawler was solid.

Don't really have a good feeling about this one so far.

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 01:15:02 AMNot playing like this. We lost the coin toss and it's been bad ever since. We need to wake up and join the game. Only one team ready to play in this one.

The only possible way to explain this play calling is that they are deliberately trying to lose!!!!!

Bomber O-line not having a good game.

Our D is keeping it close. If we can get out at the half and make adjustments we can try to win the second half and steal this one.

Getting nothing from our o-line, and very vanilla play calling. Let's hope the D can keep this close and figure something out on the other side

argos d line is too much for the BB s oline

Dinwiddie just ripping his player for that bad penalty. That's not a good look. Do that stuff in private coach.

argos get into the grey cup they will be hard to beat

Cole our best player today. Glad he came to play.

Put Cole in at qb?

Or on the o line?

who is calling the plays?....collaros or buck???

Our linebackers (very excited about Cole and Jones btw) and secondary are keeping us alive. Everything else is struggling right now. This is a tough watch

FG Argos. 4-13. Very disappointing performance by the offense.

5 sacks by the Argo D in the first half. Unacceptable performance by our O-line. O-line continues to be our worst part of the team.

Argos d line is legit

I am at the game and you can see oline  getting manhandled

We are plain getting beat - the bombers look defeated already

Going to take an effort to turn this around

Zack showing no mobility. He's just a sitting duck back there.

5 sacks in the first half... Toronto might break a record tonight. Zach isn't adapting and making quick reads or the playcalls don't have those options... either way it's not goof

Not to excuse the performance by any of them, but I hate dressing only 6 o-linemen. We seem to have trouble when we can't rotate more often

Dobson getting trucked consistently. Not sure what we can do about it. 4 points a half isn't doing to win you many games.

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 01:53:06 AM5 sacks by the Argo D in the first half. Unacceptable performance by our O-line. O-line continues to be our worst part of the team.

Yeah, not much resistance to the Argo rush. Almost running untouched right by Bombers on some plays.

I thought the O had turned the corner.

Let's See what they come up with here.  Maybe put in extra lineman. Or two running backs.

This team could be given the winning numbers to the lottery and they'd find a way to screw it up when they went to buy the ticket.
Grey Cup 2022
Grey Cup 2023

Bombers have left 13 points on the field. I hope we can make the point at halftime that playing the West Final in Regina isn't going to be a very good idea. We need to snap out of it and show the Argos our best play in the second half. Everyone needs to step it up. Going into Montreal needing a win is going to be a nasty assignment.

Based on that half - win probability is at 10-15%

Big test of the teams ability to bounce back.

Is #1 Nicholas hurt.....never mind I see him on the field

if your quarterbacks tentative and unsure then it reflects on your entire offence. Zac knows hes gonna be rushed he has to make quick reads

We can't be missing easy FGs. We can't fail to score from the 1-yard line. If we are fortunate enough to make it to the Grey Cup game this is exactly what we can expect from our opponent. This should be an excellent wake-up call. It's time to show we are a championship team.

Wow.


These games

*** was that

Zach. C'mon man. Can't be fumbling there, pal.

reminds me so much of the first game against toronto where we shoot ourselves in the foot offensively. Zac was finally getting rid of the ball quickly then decides to hold on to go deep and fumbles.

when it comes to games like this, typical of the bomber s or zach to play like this...he has to forget the long balls and get to the short passing game

Ball security is always job #1.

Nice gift to the sell-out crowd in the last home game of the season. Why are they even playing Zack?

big deal...zach cant move the ball any ways.....delaying the inevitable

What a colossal stop by the Bomber D on the goal line. If the Bombers come back to win this that will be the turning point.

We needed something good to happen and that goal-line stand was it. Let's go Blue!

Dinwiddie with the challenge. I didn't know you could challenge for an illegal block??

TSN

Reliably treats its customers like they do not matter.

I don't have stats about this,

But does it seem like Demski is not the game changer he used to be? 

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 02:28:02 AMWhat a colossal stop by the Bomber D on the goal line. If the Bombers come back to win this that will be the turning point.

SHANE GAUTHIER!

Argo coaches just ripping their players. Players look to be in shock. What the hell is going on on the Argo sidelines? I'm surprised TSN showed us that.

Oliveira trucking Argo linebackers. I love that!

Dinwiddie needs to get a grip. It was a chintzy call by the refs and he's tearing the guy a new one. Give me a break.

Castillo vs the Argos - bad news

 

it is just not our night tonight. Nothing going right for the BB

Castillo is going to cost us this game. Get your head into the game, pal!

Some players are not ready tonight.

has to be so disheartening to the rest of the team when you battle and that happens twice

6 points gone on missed field goals. Added insult to injury

this game should be an eye opener to people who think the bombers are or will win the grey cup this year...

I guess if we're going to have a stinker it's better to have it now than in the playoffs.

Quote from: Go_Big_D on October 12, 2024, 02:46:07 AMthis game should be an eye opener to people who think the bombers are or will win the grey cup this year...

Oh? Did your crystal ball tell you something different? Who is going to win it then?

It legit feels like we don't care about winning tn.

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 02:47:50 AMOh? Did your crystal ball tell you something different? Who is going to win it then?

We have as good a chance as anyone. But our preparation and lack of adjustments is definitely cause for concern

Quote from: towelie on October 12, 2024, 02:48:02 AMIt legit feels like we don't care about winning tn.

tell that to Jones and Cole and the rest of the defence

No team has gone undefeated this year so I think it's safe to say all teams have the occasional bad game. We've won 8 in a row. Maybe we won't win 9 in a row but I'm okay with that as long as we win when it matters.

I don't see any quit in this Bomber team. That's important. Championship calibre qualities.

Quote from: Pete on October 12, 2024, 02:49:28 AMtell that to Jones and Cole and the rest of the defence

I should have prefaced... the d is playing their a** off.

But not much urgency or changes on O. Big PI call here now!

TD Bombers! Woooo!

All we need now is a FG to win this game. Let's go Blue!

All comes down to this. Need a stop, and another score. Let's finish this Blue.  :)  :-X

That goal line stand by our D is looming large, isn't it?

Despite all my negativity around tonight's game.. we've been great containing Grant... that deep throw is a killer though

As I'm typing... Jones! What a stud

Massive amount of holding on that Argo O-line. Geez.

Good stop. Now we get the ball back. Here we go. Just need a FG.

Ford more times than not runs the route for the receiver. Let's go Zach. This is up to you now

We've given ourselves a chance to win this. The D did their job. Now it's time to show we have a championship-calibre offense too. Let's go Blue!

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 02:47:50 AMOh? Did your crystal ball tell you something different? Who is going to win it then?

lol...yeah...the last 2 grey cups!!!!!

he wasnt even close..he didnt make it

Quote from: towelie on October 12, 2024, 03:11:07 AMGreat effort from ZC. But that's game :-\

Good challenge but he didn't get there

zach and his long ball plays...just lazy play on his part...

I think he had that.

It's entirely possible he made it, but there's no way they can overturn this

and 2 missed field goals didnt help....

Inability to kick FGs when it counted, poor blocking, and an utterly ineffective ZC cost us this one.  Sloppy football.  We left way too many points on the table to deserve this win.

Choke by the offence. By my count we left 16+ points on the field. Two missed FG's ( 5 ) Missed TD on goal line ( 7 ) and Collaros fumble on about the 20 ( FG? ). Add in the turnover on downs missing 1st down by 6 " and what might have been a game winner.

Thomas: What were you thinking? Everyone in the country knew the whistle blew. Dumbest play of the year.

N. Hallett blew the coverage on the TD. Also missed coverage on another play that resulted in a 1st down.

Castillo: 2 missed FG's against the Argos. AGAIN

Argos won LOS on both sides of the ball.

IDK. Now we need the Lions to beat the Riders. Not liking our chances against the Als while the Riders play the Stamsp.

Lack of adjustments

Couple missed field goals

Defense did everything they could. Cole and Jones are studs. Secondary was very good considering Kelly often got to his 3rd or 4th read before throwing the ball.

O line wasn't good, ZC wasn't good. The result is what it is.

Another shot next game. Lots of work to do but we were due for a stinker

Both defenses played very well. Unfortunately our offense left too many points on the field and we lost by 3 points. If Sergio makes those two field goals he missed we win by 3. If we convert from the 1-yard line we win by 4. If we do both we win by 10. We certainly had our chances. It was a good lesson about capitalising on your opportunities. It was a close game. We battled right to the end. The boys won't be happy with the result but I'm proud of them for the way they battled right to the final whistle. We may need to beat Montreal in our last game if we want to host the Western Final. Should be a good game.

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 03:31:57 AMBoth defenses played very well. Unfortunately our offense left too many points on the field and we lost by 3 points. If Sergio makes those two field goals he missed we win by 3. If we convert from the 1-yard line we win by 4. If we do both we win by 10. We certainly had our chances. It was a good lesson about capitalising on your opportunities. It was a close game. We battled right to the end. The boys won't be happy with the result but I'm proud of them for the way they battled right to the final whistle. We may need to beat Montreal in our last game if we want to host the Western Final. Should be a good game.

He got a single on one of the missed FG's but yes we'd have won if he'd made them potentially.

Collaros was sacked 7 times. We didn't get to Kelly even once but limited his offence. That's a small consolation.

Kelly had too much time to throw as have many QB's recently. Our defence still has limited every team including the Argos.

Tonight our offence turned over the ball too often.

It's easy to be negative whenever you lose a game but winning and losing can be a strange thing. You can outplay a team and lose, a team can outplay you yet you win. Sometimes you need some luck and need to get some breaks. That's why O'Shea preaches to not get too high when you win and not get too low when you lose. Lots of football left, at least a regular season game and a playoff game and then hopefully a grey cup game. We control our own destiny. Go Bombers!

It's crazy IMO how few points we've been allowing despite not really getting much pressure at all. Some is scheming for sure, but even on blitzes we barely make a dent more often than not.

O-line is getting caved in. Maybe we need to start bully ball earlier than later and see what that opens up.

Roster is what it is now. And prior to this we've found a way. Still an amazing turnaround. Hopefully Toronto isn't our Kryptonite. On to the next!

Quote from: VictorRomano on October 12, 2024, 03:18:36 AMInability to kick FGs when it counted, poor blocking, and an utterly ineffective ZC cost us this one.  Sloppy football.  We left way too many points on the table to deserve this win.

Give the Argo D some credit. They played a very good game and would have given any team a lot of trouble tonight. Same with our D. This game could have gone either way. I'd like to play them again in BC. :-)

Quote from: Blue In BC on October 12, 2024, 03:35:57 AM

Quote from: towelie on October 12, 2024, 03:26:26 AMLack of adjustments

Couple missed field goals

Defense did everything they could. Cole and Jones are studs. Secondary was very good considering Kelly often got to his 3rd or 4th read before throwing the ball.

O line wasn't good, ZC wasn't good. The result is what it is.

Another shot next game. Lots of work to do but we were due for a stinker

Collaros was sacked 7 times. We didn't get to Kelly even once but limited his offence. That's a small consolation.

Kelly had too much time to throw as have many QB's recently. Our defence still has limited every team including the Argos.

Tonight our offence turned over the ball too often.

Couple of missed makeable field goals, couple of times, leads to at least a couple of lost games...gotta wonder if Castillo is much better than Liegghio considering the ratio disadvantage.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 12, 2024, 04:02:43 AMCollaros was sacked 7 times. We didn't get to Kelly even once but limited his offence. That's a small consolation.

Kelly had too much time to throw as have many QB's recently. Our defence still has limited every team including the Argos.

Tonight our offence turned over the ball too often.


Couple of missed makeable field goals, couple of times, leads to at least a couple of lost games...gotta wonder if Castillo is much better than Liegghio considering the ratio disadvantage.

All FG kickers have games like this. Castillo is often automatic but can make them from +60 which is beyond Liegghio's range. That can be the difference in a close game.

We let Toronto off the hook twice this year. Oh well. Pretty much all the little plays went against us and you pair that with a very slow start and it results in a narrow loss. Not worried. We didn't play a great game and still should have won.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 12, 2024, 04:02:43 AMCollaros was sacked 7 times. We didn't get to Kelly even once but limited his offence. That's a small consolation.

Kelly had too much time to throw as have many QB's recently. Our defence still has limited every team including the Argos.

Tonight our offence turned over the ball too often.


Couple of missed makeable field goals, couple of times, leads to at least a couple of lost games...gotta wonder if Castillo is much better than Liegghio considering the ratio disadvantage.

That would be interesting to know. Seems Leigghio has been doing fine since he left here, just like Liram did. Do we give up on Nat kickers too quickly??

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on October 12, 2024, 04:21:39 AMWe let Toronto off the hook twice this year. Oh well. Pretty much all the little plays went against us and you pair that with a very slow start and it results in a narrow loss. Not worried. We didn't play a great game and still should have won.

It seems like playing Eastern teams is not the same for us. We are deadly playing Western teams and that's why we are in an enviable position right now. Unfortunately we may need to beat Montreal in our last game if we want to host the Western Final so we need to be ready from the start if it comes to that. We are perfectly capable of beating any team in this league.

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 04:08:56 AMAll FG kickers have games like this. Castillo is often automatic but can make them from +60 which is beyond Liegghio's range. That can be the difference in a close game.

Honestly I'd settle for more consistency over longer FG's, at least with Paredes the Stamps know his range and try not to push him beyond it.

Quote from: Blue In BC on October 12, 2024, 03:35:57 AMHe got a single on one of the missed FG's but yes we'd have won if he'd made them potentially.

True. My bad. We'd only have won by 2 points.

Quote from: Blue In BC on October 12, 2024, 03:35:57 AMCollaros was sacked 7 times. We didn't get to Kelly even once but limited his offence. That's a small consolation.

Kelly did a good job of getting rid of the ball quickly or taking off with it. We may not have sacked him but we provided lots of pressure.

Quote from: Blue In BC on October 12, 2024, 03:35:57 AMKelly had too much time to throw as have many QB's recently. Our defence still has limited every team including the Argos.

Not too sure about that. I think we rushed him plenty and flushed him out of the pocket often.

Quote from: Blue In BC on October 12, 2024, 03:35:57 AMTonight our offence turned over the ball too often.

One fumble, twice on third down. That's all I recall. Toronto D had a very good night.

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 04:36:32 AMIt seems like playing Eastern teams is not the same for us. We are deadly playing Western teams and that's why we are in an enviable position right now. Unfortunately we may need to beat Montreal in our last game if we want to host the Western Final so we need to be ready from the start if it comes to that. We are perfectly capable of beating any team in this league.

The Bombers can handle all of those other teams in the trenches quite easily, overall the Argos and Als have superior personnel along the line of scrimmage, it's as simple as that IMO.

Quote from: Blue In BC on October 12, 2024, 03:25:36 AMThomas: What were you thinking? Everyone in the country knew the whistle blew. Dumbest play of the year.

Well, you'd have to count me among the dummies then because I never heard a whistle. Looked like Thomas was playing to the whistle. Did Thomas even touch him? Besides, Kelly dropped like he'd been shot! Should have got an embellishment penalty.  :-)

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 03:51:07 AMIt's easy to be negative whenever you lose a game but winning and losing can be a strange thing. You can outplay a team and lose, a team can outplay you yet you win. Sometimes you need some luck and need to get some breaks. That's why O'Shea preaches to not get too high when you win and not get too low when you lose. Lots of football left, at least a regular season game and a playoff game and then hopefully a grey cup game. We control our own destiny. Go Bombers!

Sure, but the script plays out the same every time we play TO.

Good chance they're in the Grey Cup this year. So we need to figure it out.

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 04:55:45 AMWe may not have sacked him but we provided lots of pressure.

What? No we didn't.

Quote from: Jesse on October 12, 2024, 05:03:20 AMSure, but the script plays out the same every time we play TO.

Good chance they're in the Grey Cup this year. So we need to figure it out.

When Zach was younger he had more escapability but you're right, we need to figure it out. I believe Buck can design a package for Zach that will allow him to cope better with the Toronto pass rush.

Quote from: Jesse on October 12, 2024, 05:05:36 AMWhat? No we didn't.

Willy was hot on his tail several times and we chased him from the pocket often. Kelly is a slippery character. Not easy to sack.

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 05:12:40 AMWilly was hot on his tail several times and we chased him from the pocket often. Kelly is a slippery character. Not easy to sack.

There were way more times when Kelly stood there all day than times when he needed to move.

Quote from: Jesse on October 12, 2024, 05:03:20 AMSure, but the script plays out the same every time we play TO.

Good chance they're in the Grey Cup this year. So we need to figure it out.

I thought they figured it out in the second half, Zach needs to pretend he's Trevor Harris and get the ball out more quickly cause the O-line just can't handle the pressure.

Quote from: Jesse on October 12, 2024, 05:05:36 AMWhat? No we didn't.

Agree, we had very little pressure on Kelly.

Quote from: Jesse on October 12, 2024, 05:19:29 AMThere were way more times when Kelly stood there all day than times when he needed to move.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 12, 2024, 05:19:30 AMI thought they figured it out in the second half, Zach needs to pretend he's Trevor Harris and get the ball out more quickly cause the O-line just can't handle the pressure.

Agree, we were much better in the 2nd. half. Turnovers, and a off night by Castillo. Wilson also had some problems on shortage.

Tor. 7 sacks.   Wpg. zip

Tor. 22 DL made 22 DTs. Wpg. 4

ZC8: 23/30, 249 yards 1 Int, 1 Fumble.
ZC8: 5/44 yards.
BO20: 12/64 yards
BO20: 18 total touches.

TJ33: 9 DTs, 2 PDs.
Cole: 5 DTs, 1 FF

Grant: KR: 2/52, longest 35 yards.
Grant: PR: 5/71, longest 46 yards.

Lucky: KR: 2/59, longest 32 yards.
Lucky: PR: 6/64, longest 13 yards.

Castillo: 1/3.

On the final failed sneak try in the 1st Q, on both sneaks TOR was offside, but refs didn't flag it.  The first o/s was tight, but the 2nd o/s was really egregious.

I have no idea what the GL judges were smoking on those plays.  They are usually pretty strict on those.

That should have been 1st down and 3 more cracks at it from the 1.

Note:
1. The ball placement
2. The visible ref's foot placement
3. The dude's foot in the background (foreground hand may be o/s too, but foot is nearly halfway to the yard mark)

(https://fsi.ca/tec/toroffside.jpg)

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 05:02:08 AMWell, you'd have to count me among the dummies then because I never heard a whistle. Looked like Thomas was playing to the whistle. Did Thomas even touch him? Besides, Kelly dropped like he'd been shot! Should have got an embellishment penalty.  :-)

I was there.  You couldn't hear any whistle from my spot.  You could tell guys were just standing up though.  But that RB was still blocking for Kelly and pushed Fatboi when he was arriving.  Fatboi may have thought the play was still on.

Kelly 100% embellished.  I slow-mo'd it and Kelly was already falling before Fatboi touched him.

I will add that I've seen DL guys truck the heck out of all sorts of players just like this (on un-hearable whistles in loud stadiums) and never have I seen a flag thrown.  Never.

Quote from: barbk on October 12, 2024, 02:07:24 AMIs #1 Nicholas hurt.....never mind I see him on the field

Nichols did something bad to his knee on a tackle he made.  He kept trying to walk it off but kept stopping and bending over.  He did come back for the next series, and I'm not sure, but probably finished the game?

Quote from: towelie on October 12, 2024, 01:55:36 AMNot to excuse the performance by any of them, but I hate dressing only 6 o-linemen. We seem to have trouble when we can't rotate more often

We don't usually rotate at all in the starting 5.  (We did a bit when 1-2 of our desired starters were injured, but not normally like tonight.)

We do rotate who we use as 6th/7th, depending on who's available, and yes, our options are limited when we don't have a 7th.

Everyone on O and ST took turns sucking.  It was a shambles and it started early.  It gave everyone there one of those "uh oh, one of those games" feelings.  You know, when you have a premonition that nothing is going to go right.

- Start with the ball and go 2 & out: demoralizing
- Letting TOR O waltz down the whole field for their 1st TD: demoralizing
- Coming away with 0 on the Grant fumble at the 12: demoralizing
- Castillo 1st miss: demoralizing
- Kelly an amazing escape and throwing cross-body while being pulled down and the REC making a tough catch to get 1st down: demoralizing
- Brady wide open on an out catches the ball with his helmet instead of his hands: demoralizing
- Kenny gets the biggest catch of the game and then we go Brady-nothing/sack from our 10: demoralizing
- Sack after sack after sack ad nauseam while Kelly has 3, 4, 5+ seconds most snaps: demoralizing
- Multiple 2nd & short and Brady & the OL get nothing: demoralizing
- Forced to use a timeout because you have 13 D on the field: demoralizing
- Choosing Loser formation to end the 1st H: demoralizing

--- and all this in just the 1st half... so ugly.  so demoralizing.

Good thing Bombers still had some fight left in them for the rest of the game or it would have been a blowout.  But in the end it was clear to all we were unprepared and totally out-coached.  It was like the '22 GC all over again.

So in that sense I'm happy we got it out of our system now, so hopefully we'll have our heads out of our butts come GC day, because it's looking like it'll be TOR we meet there from what I just saw!

I totally agree, this game felt a lot like the last couple of Grey Cup games, so I hope we got it out of our system.
They have no trouble against the West, but consistently save their worst games for the East, and it's not just because of the skill of the opposition (Castillo, anyone?)

They need to figure out what to do about this, and fast.

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 05:02:08 AMWell, you'd have to count me among the dummies then because I never heard a whistle. Looked like Thomas was playing to the whistle. Did Thomas even touch him? Besides, Kelly dropped like he'd been shot! Should have got an embellishment penalty.  :-)

He didn't need to hear the whistle. It was clear that Kelly was not looking to run or throw. When has Thomas ever had a straight run at a QB that wasn't trying to move away from being hit. Kelly may have play acted it out but it doesn't change the fact it was a penalty.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 12, 2024, 07:00:25 AMOn the final failed sneak try in the 1st Q, on both sneaks TOR was offside, but refs didn't flag it.  The first o/s was tight, but the 2nd o/s was really egregious.

I have no idea what the GL judges were smoking on those plays.  They are usually pretty strict on those.

That should have been 1st down and 3 more cracks at it from the 1.

Note:
1. The ball placement
2. The visible ref's foot placement
3. The dude's foot in the background (foreground hand may be o/s too, but foot is nearly halfway to the yard mark)

(https://fsi.ca/tec/toroffside.jpg)

The ball wasn't on the 1 yard line so IMO the Argos were not offside.

Quote from: Blue In BC on October 12, 2024, 01:28:12 PMHe didn't need to hear the whistle. It was clear that Kelly was not looking to run or throw. When has Thomas ever had a straight run at a QB that wasn't trying to move away from being hit. Kelly may have play acted it out but it doesn't change the fact it was a penalty.

Exactly. It was a very poor decision on Thomas s part, rather than push the Argos back from the offside, we moved them forward and next play is a TD. When you play stupid football you generally lose.

Quote from: dd on October 12, 2024, 02:17:08 PMExactly. It was a very poor decision on Thomas s part, rather than push the Argos back from the offside, we moved them forward and next play is a TD. When you play stupid football you generally lose.

I'm not sure if would have prevented the Argos from scoring. 1st and 15 and 10 yards back as opposed to 1st and 10.

It certainly improved their chances and they did score on the next play.

The talk about Thomas and dline pressure is ado about nothing. The d played lights out. Coles best game of career Jones looked like Bighill of past years

This loss is on ,  in no.particular order:
 Castillo 2 missed fgs
 Oline got bullied
 Zac not adjusting enough to having to make quick reads
 Bucks game plan.
It was obvious with 9 dlinemen what argo game plan was, and we had nothing in place to counter it.

I've said before we don't do a good enough job of game planning,  rather we just go with our style no matter who opponent was.(Maybe its the short practice weeks we use?)

Thomas hit Kelly in the head. Automatic RTP.

They weren't offside on the 3rd down because the ball was on the one and a half yard line. 

Both teams got stuffed on the 1. 

They made their FG we doinked one and missed one. 

We didn't take advantage of their huge fumble on the kick return. 

It's better to lose now than in the playoffs. 

What an unexpectedly disappointing performance. Castillo was such a letdown.

That's it. I've got nothing else.

Can we still get first place?

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on October 12, 2024, 03:15:22 PMWhat an unexpectedly disappointing performance. Castillo was such a letdown.

That's it. I've got nothing else.

Castillo really sucked last night. Perfect weather conditions and brutal misses.

Quote from: Blue In BC on October 12, 2024, 01:30:19 PMThe ball wasn't on the 1 yard line so IMO the Argos were not offside.

You might want to examine the goal line stand the Argos failed to score on in more detail, on Bonfire Gameday After Dark postgame show one angle looked like Kelly crossed the goal line before Gauthier pushed him back.

Sorry! This message was meant for Techno.

Any thoughts on our Jake Kelly?

I have no idea how he played, didn't obviously get burned....

Seems a touch on the small side.

Looks like our linebacker situation is well in hand.

Was Zach our leading rusher? 😂 really lucky he survived without injury. No quit in that guy.

Also re Castillo

He has been about all the offence we had in a fair number of games this season.  Clutch for the most part.

could it be the holder??

Our D played lights out.... Brian Cole is an absolute keeper and was a force in the middle---and fast!!! Tracked down Grant and forced a fumble, not too many players in the league can say that.

Our O line and Castillo struggled alot. Collaros sacked 7 times, don't win too many games when your Qb is sacked 7 times.

Castillo gassed away 6 points in a 3 point game, it ends right there. That has rarely happened in the past, but it happens and when it does in a low scoring game, you lose.

Lots of good in the game, but O line and Castillo, get your crap together.

Just a few thoughts, but nothing not already mentioned:

- OL, Castillo, and Zach were not themselves. I'll let Zach off the hook a bit due to being under siege the whole time by their very good DL. He also had moments of brilliance and ran hard when he had to (including on that final scamper to be within a c-hair of the first down).

- Lawler, Pokey and Brady had a good night.

- Our d was bend-don't-break. It felt like we were getting torched all night but I kept looking up at the jumbotron and seeing the game completely in our reach the whole 60 mins. Cheers to them for keeping it interesting while our O was anemic.

- Man I wish we had a stud DT in the middle. Stove was a lifetime ago and it sucks so much that we didn't get to see what a beast Lawson could have been in the trenches this year.

- Count me in with the crowd saying that we do unfortunately completely lay an egg a few times a year. I actually thought we would last week in Hamilton and then last night would have been our redeemer. Better to get this out of our system now than in the playoffs when we need a Zach with time and a kicker who's dialled in and not a head case.

- I don't know what feels worse: getting smacked down or having the came totally winnable only to be crushed at the end. I thought Zach was going to write a fairy tail at the end and get that first down on the run, and then Castillo would redeem himself by kicking a walk off FG. FML.

" Man I wish we had a stud DT in the middle. Stove was a lifetime ago and it sucks so much that we didn't get to see what a beast Lawson could have been in the trenches this year."

Fox...hurt very early in the season.

Quote from: Bomber Diehard on October 12, 2024, 03:41:02 PMCan we still get first place?

If BC wins against Sask it looks like Bombers clinch 1st. Or if Bombers beat Montreal next week.

How good has Tony Jones been. 11 games, 41 DTs, 10 STs, 1 sack, 1 Int, 1 FF, the only thing he has done is score TD.

Quote from: Pigskin on October 12, 2024, 06:59:26 PMHow good has Tony Jones been. 11 games, 41 DTs, 10 STs, 1 sack, 1 Int, 1 FF, the only thing he has done is score TD.

6 passes knocked down (officially) & 1 more (unofficially)

Quote from: markf on October 12, 2024, 06:33:56 PM" Man I wish we had a stud DT in the middle. Stove was a lifetime ago and it sucks so much that we didn't get to see what a beast Lawson could have been in the trenches this year."

Fox...hurt very early in the season.

fox and Lawson both aren't stove caliber, they may be an upgrade, but we had no answer for Ceresna, and they aren't close to Rose or Mtrls Johnson. We need to be as good in scouting for dline as we are on dbs

It's hard to tell but to my untrained eyes Zach was clearly past the first down marker but the refs spotted it 6 inches short. I'd love to see a clear picture of the ball as it hits the OOB line. First down there and Castillo gets a chance to redeem himself.

If we don't host the WF after dominating our Western counterparts it'll be beyond bizarre. To have to beat an Eastern team to wrap up the West just doesn't make sense but that may be the situation we find ourselves in in two weeks.

I'm sure Castillo feels like Scott Norwood today but he needs to flush it and get his stroke back. We're going to need him at his best.

Quote from: Pigskin on October 12, 2024, 06:59:26 PMHow good has Tony Jones been. 11 games, 41 DTs, 10 STs, 1 sack, 1 Int, 1 FF, the only thing he has done is score TD.

It's only a matter of time, he's made enough take away plays to get close to the endzone.

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 07:31:34 PMIt's hard to tell but to my untrained eyes Zach was clearly past the first down marker but the refs spotted it 6 inches short. I'd love to see a clear picture of the ball as it hits the OOB line. First down there and Castillo gets a chance to redeem himself.

If we don't host the WF after dominating our Western counterparts it'll be beyond bizarre. To have to beat an Eastern team to wrap up the West just doesn't make sense but that may be the situation we find ourselves in in two weeks.

I'm sure Castillo feels like Scott Norwood today but he needs to flush it and get his stroke back. We're going to need him at his best.

You probably saw a bunch of different replays on TSN last night.   Also what did the announcers and panel think.

Quote from: Pigskin on October 12, 2024, 08:05:34 PMYou probably saw a bunch of different replays on TSN last night. Also what did the announcers and panel think.

I'll take the word of the guy that was there and his foot was not OOB so that was, to me, clearly a first down.

Zach On The Last Play (https://twitter.com/i/status/1844958271066477039)

Quote from: Pete on October 12, 2024, 07:13:49 PMfox and Lawson both aren't stove caliber, they may be an upgrade, but we had no answer for Ceresna, and they aren't close to Rose or Mtrls Johnson. We need to be as good in scouting for dline as we are on dbs

People keep talking about Lawson like he's some kind of play making machine. 36 games in the CFL. 20 DTs, 6 Sacks, 1 Int. I am hoping he can just stay healthy next season, and get 20-25 DTs, which would top his career total. 

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 08:11:46 PMI'll take the word of the guy that was there and his foot was not OOB so that was, to me, clearly a first down.

Zach On The Last Play (https://twitter.com/i/status/1844958271066477039)

So did they show on TSN that his foot was not OOB? At the game they kept showing the same replay and it was very hard to tell.

Quote from: Pigskin on October 12, 2024, 08:32:15 PMSo did they show on TSN that his foot was not OOB? At the game they kept showing the same replay and it was very hard to tell.

Yes, the replay I saw showed his foot clearly in bounds. Zach is convinced, as am I, that if his foot is in bounds he easily has the first down. Why the CC couldn't determine that is the mystery to me. I thought for sure that when O'Shea challenged it the ball would be properly re-spotted. Wrong again. Same old story when it comes to the Bombers.

Quote from: Pigskin on October 12, 2024, 08:32:15 PMSo did they show on TSN that his foot was not OOB? At the game they kept showing the same replay and it was very hard to tell.

It certainly wasn't clear from any angle, figured they weren't going to overturn it with any of the evidence presented. If this was on the goaline it would have been clear if he touched the cone, I wonder why they can't have a little 1st down marker flag that stays put when the guy drops the sticks and flees.

on third and short with Wilson in, one of the big differences seems to be is that he only drives straight ahead while Streveler would dive left or right where the defence is a little less stacked. I'm surprised that we didn't dress Vanderpool or randolph when we saw 9 argo dline. Dobson had a very tough game

"If we don't host the WF after dominating our Western counterparts it'll be beyond bizarre. To have to beat an Eastern team to wrap up the West just doesn't make sense but that may be the situation we find ourselves in in two weeks."

[/quote]

This is nothing new for the Bombers. They often find a way to lose important games after dominating.
Cases in point:
2022: Set win records; won the West going away; dominated the League; go to the Grey Cup: LOSE
2023: Win West again; definitely considered the League's best team: go to the Grey Cup: LOSE
2024: 0-4 start; injuries; recover, go 8-0; final home game/sell-out; to win the West; play like crap: LOSE. This last game was just painful. On the 3 yard line and Olivera doesn't get the ball, TWICE!!   

Buck Pierce can prepare a genius-level game plan or one that looks so vanilla and unimaginative. Last night we got the latter. I'm not sure why but I'd expect better in a do-or-die scenario. I remember this with Lapo too. Some games he was a mad scientist, other games even I could correctly predict what was to be called. Is this a result of Lapo's influence on Buck? Is Lapo still influencing Buck? Makes me wonder some times.

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 10:18:04 PMBuck Pierce can prepare a genius-level game plan or one that looks so vanilla and unimaginative. Last night we got the latter. I'm not sure why but I'd expect better in a do-or-die scenario. I remember this with Lapo too. Some games he was a mad scientist, other games even I could correctly predict what was to be called. Is this a result of Lapo's influence on Buck? Is Lapo still influencing Buck? Makes me wonder some times.

Maybe but it's pretty hard to play call or succeed when you lose the line of scrimmage as bad as we did in the first half. Five sacks in two quarters. Those kill drives. I thought, to both the players and Buck's credit, they played a significantly better second half.

Sometimes you need to awknowlege the other guys. They came out and trucked us for half the game.

Here's something to ponder. Argos beat us first game by 2 points. This game by 3 points. Combined over 2 games by 5 points. That's about as razor-thin a two-game spread of wins as you can manage in the CFL. If we meet again in the Grey Cup I don't like the Argos chances of beating us for the third time in a row. In fact, as soon as I learn it's the Argos in the Grey Cup against us, I'll be placing a HUGE wager on the Blue and Gold to pummel the Argos in the Grey Cup. We are definitely due and we won't leave the outcome to be determined by the officials. Our job now is to get there.

Quote from: Blue In BC on October 12, 2024, 01:30:19 PMThe ball wasn't on the 1 yard line so IMO the Argos were not offside.

Math is hard.  Look again.  Look how far off the 1YL the ball is... it's right where the ref's foot is.  Call it a foot to be generous.

Look where the TOR foot is.  It's just shy of being halfway between markers.

Half of a yard is more than a foot.

I didn't know I had to spell it out.

I've seen o/s called for far less.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 12, 2024, 04:50:38 PMYou might want to examine the goal line stand the Argos failed to score on in more detail, on Bonfire Gameday After Dark postgame show one angle looked like Kelly crossed the goal line before Gauthier pushed him back.

Sorry! This message was meant for Techno.

I'll take a look.  I've only watched the 1st half so far.  Often guys are over and the refs don't see it.  It's happened to us this year.

TOR still had a challenge then (I think?), so they could have challenged.

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 07:31:34 PMIt's hard to tell but to my untrained eyes Zach was clearly past the first down marker but the refs spotted it 6 inches short. I'd love to see a clear picture of the ball as it hits the OOB line. First down there and Castillo gets a chance to redeem himself.

Zach was totally a half yard ahead of where they marked it.  The forward progress stops the instant any of Zach touches the turf, which would seem to be his hand (the "hand is ok" rule doesn't apply OOB).

Camera angles were pretty bad, though.  Hard to overturn, but I think they could have done it.  All they needed to do was decide he made it past the stick, not decide precisely where the spot was.

I'll do an analysis and pics later.

In the post-game presser Zach insisted he made it.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 12, 2024, 11:33:34 PMZach was totally a half yard ahead of where they marked it.  The forward progress stops the instant any of Zach touches the turf, which would seem to be his hand (the "hand is ok" rule doesn't apply OOB).

Camera angles were pretty bad, though.  Hard to overturn, but I think they could have done it.  All they needed to do was decide he made it past the stick, not decide precisely where the spot was.

I'll do an analysis and pics later.

In the post-game presser Zach insisted he made it.

Oh ya, he made it all right, no doubt.

That didn't cost us the game. Lining up and whiffing on 2 field goals did.

Zach didn't make the first down. When his knee touched the ground (which was before his hand touched) the ball was at the 48. It needed to get about 5 inches beyond the 48. There is an angle that showed it. They got the spot right.

Quote from: Pigskin on October 12, 2024, 08:32:15 PMSo did they show on TSN that his foot was not OOB? At the game they kept showing the same replay and it was very hard to tell.

Yes, refs/command were "saying" his foot was inbounds because if his foot was not inbounds then he was like 2Y short, not 6".  The dive was everything.  If the foot was OOB then there was no dive.

Quote from: Pete on October 12, 2024, 09:43:19 PMI'm surprised that we didn't dress Vanderpool or randolph when we saw 9 argo dline. Dobson had a very tough game

Because the teams have to hand the chart in at the same time.  Unless TOR gifts us an early-release chart, we can't be reactive to what they roster.  We can guess based on previous games... and maybe we didn't do a good job guessing.

Quote from: northof30 on October 12, 2024, 09:57:01 PMThis is nothing new for the Bombers. They often find a way to lose important games after dominating.
Cases in point:
2022: Set win records; won the West going away; dominated the League; go to the Grey Cup: LOSE
2023: Win West again; definitely considered the League's best team: go to the Grey Cup: LOSE
2024: 0-4 start; injuries; recover, go 8-0; final home game/sell-out; to win the West; play like crap: LOSE. This last game was just painful. On the 3 yard line and Olivera doesn't get the ball, TWICE!!

I'm fine with going to the big game and having the football gods crap all over us, as long as we get there.  Just getting to the GC is a big accomplishment.  Not getting there this year when we basically had it in the bag will the massively more disappointing than getting to the cup and having TOR pull a horseshoe out of their butt.

I actually find the game this weekend far more disappointing, because TOR isn't that great this season and has lost a ton of games, and this is our barn with a late-season sell-out (an impossibility), and have some darn respect defending your barn!

As for the 3Y 2x sneaks, I'm fine with that.  It's the MOS M.O. and he's right: you need to be 99% on getting 1-2Y every sneak.  It's worked for years, why mess with it now.

The fact 2 sneaks failed to get in, using our 3rd SY sneaker, means that the problem isn't the QB: it's the OL.  Dobson isn't Desjar, and Ko-man isn't Couture, and maybe Neuf is having trouble, and even Big Stan isn't getting the push he once did.  (Lofton was whiffing on pass-rush all night, too.)

Zach is (now) a QB that needs a good pocket, and if he doesn't get it, he basically sucks.  If he gets it, he's #1 in the league.  The reason we sucked vs TOR is the OL stunk, Buck didn't go jumbo much to help, and so Zach got creamed and made mistakes.

Back to the drawing board, or we have to face 2 teams (and get beat up) to make the cup... something I don't see us doing this season.  Luckily the braintrust has 2 weeks to figure it out and do now what they couldn't do in week 1.

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 10:37:00 PMHere's something to ponder. Argos beat us first game by 2 points. This game by 3 points. Combined over 2 games by 5 points. That's about as razor-thin a two-game spread of wins as you can manage in the CFL. If we meet again in the Grey Cup I don't like the Argos chances of beating us for the third time in a row.

Normally that's 100% correct.  However, Argos have this strange habit of winning most of the cups they are in (us the opposite).  TOR has a big horseshoe in their butt when it comes to cups.  They often go in as big underdogs and mediocre teams and still win.

Maybe they are just lucky.  Maybe the TOR-friendly league "helps" them along with reffing/command.  Maybe they (tinfoil warning) outright cheat and listen in on helmet play calls, who the heck knows (certainly looked that way on Friday!).

The nice thing is, if we make it, no matter who we face (MTL or TOR), it'll be REVENGE time.  To not blow this shot after the last two will be a huge motivating factor for the guys.  It may be just enough to overcome TOR "luck".

Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 13, 2024, 06:17:26 AMNormally that's 100% correct.  However, Argos have this strange habit of winning most of the cups they are in (us the opposite).  TOR has a big horseshoe in their butt when it comes to cups.  They often go in as big underdogs and mediocre teams and still win.

Maybe they are just lucky.  Maybe the TOR-friendly league "helps" them along with reffing/command.  Maybe they (tinfoil warning) outright cheat and listen in on helmet play calls, who the heck knows (certainly looked that way on Friday!).

The nice thing is, if we make it, no matter who we face (MTL or TOR), it'll be REVENGE time.  To not blow this shot after the last two will be a huge motivating factor for the guys.  It may be just enough to overcome TOR "luck".

We've played in 4 in a row. Has Toronto? Montreal? If we get there for #5 in a row odds are we'll win.

Montreal just lost to these same Argos. Montreal has 3 games left against Ottawa, BC, us. None of them mean anything to the Als even if they pretend to care. I expect them to fold and we win easy. Why would they risk injury? Makes no sense.

Ceresna definitely had a really good game. I guess when one guy is at times unblockable, , and they don't fix that somehow, the whole offensive system fails, and maybe there is no play they can run that can remedy that.

Also, it wasn't one play or another that lost the game.... There were several that made the difference.

Missed field goals
Can't score from the one off a fumble recovery
Zach fumble
Ref bad call at the end

And it was good to see Zach going to different receivers.

Brady 12 carries seems like not enough. All season , off and on, they have gotten away from running the ball.

Zach sure was a warrior. No wonder O'Shea likes him so much.

Sour note.... Dinwiddie screaming at a player.... Don't like that at all.

Quote from: markf on October 13, 2024, 02:45:31 PMCeresna definitely had a really good game. I guess when one guy is at times unblockable, , and they don't fix that somehow, the whole offensive system fails, and maybe there is no play they can run that can remedy that.

Also, it wasn't one play or another that lost the game.... There were several that made the difference.

And it was good to see Zach going to different receivers.

Brady 12 carries seems like not enough. All season , off and on, they have gotten away from running the ball.

On paper it kind of makes sense if you don't love the line of scrimmage match up. I think they could have tried a few more runs in the first half to test the theory but they were certainly paying respect to the Argos defensive line.

The Argos brought a lot of five man pressure. Would love to see the overall snap count but usually that type of pressure loses to a good three step drop quick passing game which is what we did in the second half.

It is no surprise that the Argos and Riders are both playing great ball on the back of their defensive lines right now. It's a problem. And the playoffs are going to be tough if we get Riders, Toronto or Riders, Montreal.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on October 13, 2024, 02:52:35 PMOn paper it kind of makes sense if you don't love the line of scrimmage match up. I think they could have tried a few more runs in the first half to test the theory but they were certainly paying respect to the Argos defensive line.

The Argos brought a lot of five man pressure. Would love to see the overall snap count but usually that type of pressure loses to a good three step drop quick passing game which is what we did in the second half.

It is no surprise that the Argos and Riders are both playing great ball on the back of their defensive lines right now. It's a problem. And the playoffs are going to be tough if we get Riders, Toronto or Riders, Montreal.

You can imagine the advantage created by rotating 9 quality D-linemen throughout a game, keeps them fresh and focused, keeps the O-line guessing who they're dealing with and what talent they bring on each play, and creates competition among the D-line to show their best on every play.  Certainly a different scenario than lining up against the same tired, frustrated D-lineman every play throughout a game.  Bombers can probably expect to see this approach taken against them by a few opponents going forward.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 13, 2024, 03:58:15 PMYou can imagine the advantage created by rotating 9 quality D-linemen throughout a game, keeps them fresh and focused, keeps the O-line guessing who they're dealing with and what talent they bring on each play, and creates competition among the D-line to show their best on every play.  Certainly a different scenario than lining up against the same tired, frustrated D-lineman every play throughout a game.  Bombers can probably expect to see this approach taken against them by a few opponents going forward.

Guess how many defensive lineman the Elks dressed against us for the game in Winnipeg? Nine. Guess how many the week before? Eight. Toronto dressed nine.

It's not the number that really matters but how well they play. Toronto's defensive line was really successful from the opening whistle to the end. If teams could shut down our attack simply by dressing more lineman they would have done it three seasons ago.

True enough, what was successful for the argos was the sustained pressure with just 4 men. We knew going in they had more sacks than any other team, but we had no game plan to offset it
 

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on October 13, 2024, 05:55:45 PMGuess how many defensive lineman the Elks dressed against us for the game in Winnipeg? Nine. Guess how many the week before? Eight. Toronto dressed nine.

It's not the number that really matters but how well they play. Toronto's defensive line was really successful from the opening whistle to the end. If teams could shut down our attack simply by dressing more lineman they would have done it three seasons ago.

Quality also makes a difference, the Argos have some all-star grade D-linemen, plus throw in a player like Hansen who is hard to handle one on one.

Our OL has taken a lot of flak over this game.  But, at the end of the day. If Castillo hits his FGs, we win.

Castillo: 9th in the league. 46/57, 80.7%, longest 60 yards. Like his long FGs, but he's missed FGs this season which have cost us games. Last year 90%.

Quote from: Pigskin on October 13, 2024, 07:30:17 PMOur OL has taken a lot of flax over this game. But, at the end of the day. If Castillo hits his FGs, we win.

Castillo: 9th in the league. 46/57, 80.7%, longest 60 yards. Like his long FGs, but he's missed FGs this season which have cost us games. Last year 90%.

No worries, they can wash away the flax with a couple bottles of barley.  ;D

Quote from: Pigskin on October 13, 2024, 07:30:17 PMOur OL has taken a lot of flax over this game.  But, at the end of the day. If Castillo hits his FGs, we win.

Castillo: 9th in the league. 46/57, 80.7%, longest 60 yards. Like his long FGs, but he's missed FGs this season which have cost us games. Last year 90%.

Fun fact: I accidentally tapped "report" and laughed when I saw if I actually reported your post to a moderator, it would likely go to - you :D!

It is a fair point about Castillo and his misses.  I didn't realize his percentage and how he is last now despite having the longest.

I don't mean to take away from that, as it clearly would've made a difference on Friday.  I just want to mention there were a lot of other plays that could've made all the difference.  Being stuffed at the goal line comes to mind.  That would not have happened with a healthy Strev.

Heard he was walking without any support at the bomber gala this week. I'm gonna say here I believe Strev will be back for 2025 to help us win the GC here at home.

Quote from: Pigskin on October 13, 2024, 07:30:17 PMOur OL has taken a lot of flax over this game.  But, at the end of the day. If Castillo hits his FGs, we win.

Castillo: 9th in the league. 46/57, 80.7%, longest 60 yards. Like his long FGs, but he's missed FGs this season which have cost us games. Last year 90%.

Adjusted for distance, I have Sergio Castillo at 84.7% which ranks 7th in the CFL.
- Castillo is just 60% in the 40-49 range - tied for 7th.
- 49.1% of his FG attempts are from 40+. Only Paredes tries more kicks from 40+ (57.5%)
- Castillo is 2nd in the CFL in 30-39 range (93.3%). His only miss from this range came in game one (Chipped Ball).

Yes, most of his problems come from 40 plus. He's 18/28 which is 64.28%. 

 

Quote from: Pigskin on October 13, 2024, 07:30:17 PMOur OL has taken a lot of flak over this game.  But, at the end of the day. If Castillo hits his FGs, we win.

Castillo: 9th in the league. 46/57, 80.7%, longest 60 yards. Like his long FGs, but he's missed FGs this season which have cost us games. Last year 90%.

Yikes guess it wasn't the chips in the balls after all

Quote from: bluengold204 on October 14, 2024, 04:03:36 AMYikes on those
Yikes guess it wasn't the chips in the balls after all

That first game the balls were doing wonky things.  You can visibly see it.  I wonder if some kickers have opted to work with chipped balls because for some kickers you can see the same very odd ball trajectory changes.  And yes, I'm accounting for any excessive wind.

I have no doubt the chips did something to Castillo's game 1 kicks; however, clearly he sometimes gets in the wrong headspace for a game here and there.  I have faith he'll figure it out, probably by next game.

FGs. 40 yards plus:

Paredes   21/23   91.30%
Ward:     15/17    88.23%
Whyte:    14/16   87.50%
Hajru:    19/23     82.60%
Legg:     12/16     75.0%
Lauther:  19/28   67.85%.
Castillo: 18/28    64.28%.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 14, 2024, 04:46:42 AMThat first game the balls were doing wonky things.  You can visibly see it.  I wonder if some kickers have opted to work with chipped balls because for some kickers you can see the same very odd ball trajectory changes.  And yes, I'm accounting for any excessive wind.

I have no doubt the chips did something to Castillo's game 1 kicks; however, clearly he sometimes gets in the wrong headspace for a game here and there.  I have faith he'll figure it out, probably by next game.

Off the top I can recall 3 games Sergio missed 2 or more FG's in, all 3 losses and in 2 his missed points made the difference in the final score.  Was there more?

Quote from: Stats Junkie on October 14, 2024, 03:23:22 AMAdjusted for distance, I have Sergio Castillo at 84.7% which ranks 7th in the CFL.
- Castillo is just 60% in the 40-49 range - tied for 7th.
- 49.1% of his FG attempts are from 40+. Only Paredes tries more kicks from 40+ (57.5%)
- Castillo is 2nd in the CFL in 30-39 range (93.3%). His only miss from this range came in game one (Chipped Ball).

excellent info.

I actually woke up wondering about this 😀

Quote from: Stats Junkie on October 14, 2024, 03:23:22 AMAdjusted for distance, I have Sergio Castillo at 84.7% which ranks 7th in the CFL.
- Castillo is just 60% in the 40-49 range - tied for 7th.
- 49.1% of his FG attempts are from 40+. Only Paredes tries more kicks from 40+ (57.5%)
- Castillo is 2nd in the CFL in 30-39 range (93.3%). His only miss from this range came in game one (Chipped Ball).

Kind of flys in the face of the narrative we've been telling ourselves that we have the best kicker in the league, eh?

Quote from: Jesse on October 14, 2024, 02:38:04 PMKind of flys in the face of the narrative we've been telling ourselves that we have the best kicker in the league, eh?

There doesn't seem to be an excess of FG kickers floating around looking for work and no promising newcomers have entered the league in the last few years to push the vets.  Even if the issue was to be addressed in the off-season, I don't know if there would be many solutions available, other than maybe Boris Bede. Great FG kickers should earn more money, next to the QB they're the 2nd most valuable player IMO.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 14, 2024, 04:11:16 PMThere doesn't seem to be an excess of FG kickers floating around looking for work and no promising newcomers have entered the league in the last few years to push the vets.  Even if the issue was to be addressed in the off-season, I don't know if there would be many solutions available, other than maybe Boris Bede. Great FG kickers should earn more money, next to the QB they're the 2nd most valuable player IMO.

We were spoiled by Justin Medlock.

Castillo had a nice little streak going, but now has come back down to earth. He'll bounce back. But before we kick him to the curb, think about this...every kicker we have let go figures things out and does well--Paredes, Liram, Leggs....so chill out, every kicker goes through this.

Quote from: dd on October 14, 2024, 08:45:51 PMCastillo had a nice little streak going, but now has come back down to earth. He'll bounce back. But before we kick him to the curb, think about this...every kicker we have let go figures things out and does well--Paredes, Liram, Leggs....so chill out, every kicker goes through this.

Yes but every one of those kickers has sucked at times too. That's why I mentioned Medlock. That guy just never seemed to have a bad game.

Castillo has something special though -- a live leg. That guy is going to win us a game with an outrageous kick one day.

Quote from: J5V on October 12, 2024, 10:37:00 PMHere's something to ponder. Argos beat us first game by 2 points. This game by 3 points. Combined over 2 games by 5 points. That's about as razor-thin a two-game spread of wins as you can manage in the CFL. If we meet again in the Grey Cup I don't like the Argos chances of beating us for the third time in a row. In fact, as soon as I learn it's the Argos in the Grey Cup against us, I'll be placing a HUGE wager on the Blue and Gold to pummel the Argos in the Grey Cup. We are definitely due and we won't leave the outcome to be determined by the officials. Our job now is to get there.

I find it funny how when the bombers lose by 5 points over 2 games they are still on track to win the GC. But when bombers beat the riders over two games by a total of 6 points, they Riders are the worst team in the CFL and the bombers are still going to the GC. The CFL is to close this year, and teams are stepping up when needed to win games. Oh wait, the bombers needed to step up on Friday and they didn't. My bad.
I had and have no great expectations of the Riders this year, new coach new team, but, man CFL foot ball has been fun to watch this year.

Quote from: jayrock on October 14, 2024, 09:12:11 PMBut when bombers beat the riders over two games by a total of 6 points, they Riders are the worst team in the CFL and the bombers are still going to the GC.

They're the worst team in the CFL because they're the dirtiest team in the CFL and they suck because nothing they do they do with any class whatsoever, including sending their fans to Bomber forums after a Bomber loss to gloat. What losers!

Quote from: jayrock on October 14, 2024, 09:12:11 PMI had and have no great expectations of the Riders this year, new coach new team, but, man CFL foot ball has been fun to watch this year.

You have no expectations of the Riders this year because they suck and have sucked for their whole existence. The Bombers have been to 4 Grey Cups in the last 4 years winning 2 of them and our fans, real fans, expect the Bombers to win the championship every season until they do or don't. A Rider fan could never know what that's like. Rider fans like you can't handle it when the Bombers win so you act like this. Pathetic, really.

Quote from: J5V on October 14, 2024, 09:42:18 PMThey're the worst team in the CFL because they're the dirtiest team in the CFL and they suck because nothing they do they do with any class whatsoever, including sending their fans to Bomber forums after a Bomber loss to gloat. What losers!

You have no expectations of the Riders this year because they suck and have sucked for their whole existence. The Bombers have been to 4 Grey Cups in the last 4 years winning 2 of them and our fans, real fans, expect the Bombers to win the championship every season until they do or don't. A Rider fan could never know what that's like. Rider fans like you can't handle it when the Bombers win so you act like this. Pathetic, really.

The Riders are 9 - 7 - 1 this season so they hardly "suck".  They had had one player this year that has crossed the line with what arguably can be call dirty play, but to lambaste the entire team as "dirty" is overkill.

I don't like the Riders particularly either, but Jayrock (who doesn't need me coming to his defence), is a pretty moderate Rider fan on here.  He deserves a bit more respect than you have given him.

Quote from: jayrock on October 14, 2024, 09:12:11 PMI had and have no great expectations of the Riders this year, new coach new team, but, man CFL foot ball has been fun to watch this year.

It's nice the greenies get a bone this season.  The extended suckage has been bad for attendance.

Even now with all of this late-season winning the attendance keeps falling.  It's weird.

Will they even sell out their home WSF or WDF?  Hopefully this recent success will help them with STH next season.

Most people didn't say SSK was the worst team after losing 2 to WPG, but they sure did drop in the power rankings for a brief while, and there was the feeling held by most fans in the league (including in Regina) that SSK was going to do their late-season suckage thing again.

They deserve their recent success and their Lapo dink & dunk game plan is clearly working for them.  That plus a pretty good D.  However, the +15 or whatever turnover ratio is a lot like '14-'17 WPG that relied on TOs to win games.  The problem with that is it can't be guaranteed to repeat every game in the post-season.

Finally, McAdoo was also the king of the dink & dunk and WPG (Canadian Mafia) figured out how to defeat that in '19-'21.  I expect us to do the same this season.  The only question is, can WPG's O not suck that day?

It'll be fun to see how it turns out, though one fan base is going to be severely disappointed.

Quote from: Jesse on October 14, 2024, 02:38:04 PMKind of flys in the face of the narrative we've been telling ourselves that we have the best kicker in the league, eh?

Before this last game, if you took out the week 1 game, Castillo was doing very, very well.  I bet his range-adjusted score would have been top 3 (ex the 2 games).  (The only other clinker game he had was the other TOR game.)

On the bright side: his cost for re-signing keeps falling every week!!  Saving SMS is always fun.

Quote from: ModAdmin on October 15, 2024, 12:55:26 AMThe Riders are 9 - 7 - 1 this season so they hardly "suck".  They had had one player this year that has crossed the line with what arguably can be call dirty play, but to lambaste the entire team as "dirty" is overkill.

I don't think they're "dirty" to injure (except Marino), but I do think they're "dirty" in that they explicitly coach to hold and block and do shady things if they can get away with it.

You can call that good coaching, but our team doesn't do it nearly to that degree and I feel that gives SSK an unfair advantage.  (Yes, I know Riderfans says WPG is the holding-est team!)

At least Brown has kept his nose clean since the Strev crippling.

Quote from: ModAdmin on October 15, 2024, 12:55:26 AMHe deserves a bit more respect than you have given him.

Quote from: jayrock on October 14, 2024, 09:12:11 PMThe CFL is to close this year, and teams are stepping up when needed to win games. Oh wait, the bombers needed to step up on Friday and they didn't. My bad.

This is clearly a disrespectful dig by a Rider fan on a Bomber forum. It got the level of respect it deserves.

Quote from: J5V on October 15, 2024, 01:52:34 AMThis is clearly a disrespectful dig by a Rider fan on a Bomber forum. It got the level of respect it deserves.

You are overlooking the fact he was right though.  The Bombers did not play well enough to win.

Quote from: ModAdmin on October 15, 2024, 05:46:21 AMYou are overlooking the fact he was right though.  The Bombers did not play well enough to win.

When was the Riders last undefeated season?

Quote from: J5V on October 15, 2024, 10:32:55 AMWhen was the Riders last undefeated season?

The riders have never had an undefeated season.

https://stats.cfldb.ca/league/cfl/best-worst-records/

Quote from: ModAdmin on October 15, 2024, 12:55:26 AMThe Riders are 9 - 7 - 1 this season so they hardly "suck".  They had had one player this year that has crossed the line with what arguably can be call dirty play, but to lambaste the entire team as "dirty" is overkill.

I don't like the Riders particularly either, but Jayrock (who doesn't need me coming to his defence), is a pretty moderate Rider fan on here.  He deserves a bit more respect than you have given him.

Thanks ModAdmin, I appreciate you. Been on the forum long enough and made some great friends through here, that I should know better then to have a kneejerk reaction to someone clearing talking with to much emotion and not enough facts.

Quote from: ModAdmin on October 15, 2024, 12:55:26 AMThe Riders are 9 - 7 - 1 this season so they hardly "suck".  They had had one player this year that has crossed the line with what arguably can be call dirty play, but to lambaste the entire team as "dirty" is overkill.

I don't like the Riders particularly either, but Jayrock (who doesn't need me coming to his defence), is a pretty moderate Rider fan on here.  He deserves a bit more respect than you have given him.

I like Jayrock and the Riders don't "suck" but they DO have a legitimate reputation to overcome (I'm sure there are more but I don't have 8 hours to commit to finding them all:

Chris Jones Era 2016-2018
Riders fined record amount for "pre-practice" squad, essentially having "as many as 95 players" in Regina
Riders fined for violating ratio rules in game - not playing enough Canadians
Chris Jones fined for tampering - meeting with Johnny Manziel in 2017

Craig Dickenson Era 2019-2023
Loucheiz Purifoy detained by police in restaurant for causing disturbance
AC Leonard suspended three games for failing to provide urine sample and verbal abuse of a drug testing official   
Garrett Marino hits Masoli low in week 5 resulting in season-ending injury
Garrett Marino issued four game suspension for racial comments made towards Masoli
Duke Williams throws helmet at a player in warmups
Duke Williams gets in fight while injured and in street clothes on sideline
Jake Dolegala (now a Blue Bomber) arrested for impaired driving
Samuel Emilus fined for high hit on Jonathan Moxie
Deontai Williams fined for high hit on Taylor Cornelius
Jayden Dalke fined for tourist hit on Kiondre Smith

Cory Mace Era 2024
Riders issue national apology over marketing campaign
Trevor Reid fined for hit on Kene Onyeka
DaMarcus Fields fined for high hit on Makai Polk
Miles Brown fined for high hit to Zach Collaros
Miles Brown fined for low hit to Chris Streveler
Samuel Emilus fined for blindside block to Demerio Houston
Deontai Williams fined and suspended for suplexing Kalil Pimpleton
CJ Reavis fined for throwing a punch at Jakub Szott

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on October 15, 2024, 01:46:17 PMI like Jayrock and the Riders don't "suck" but they DO have a legitimate reputation to overcome (I'm sure there are more but I don't have 8 hours to commit to finding them all:

Chris Jones Era 2016-2018
Riders fined record amount for "pre-practice" squad, essentially having "as many as 95 players" in Regina
Riders fined for violating ratio rules in game - not playing enough Canadians
Chris Jones fined for tampering - meeting with Johnny Manziel in 2017

Craig Dickenson Era 2019-2023
Loucheiz Purifoy detained by police in restaurant for causing disturbance
AC Leonard suspended three games for failing to provide urine sample and verbal abuse of a drug testing official   
Garrett Marino hits Masoli low in week 5 resulting in season-ending injury
Garrett Marino issued four game suspension for racial comments made towards Masoli
Duke Williams throws helmet at a player in warmups
Duke Williams gets in fight while injured and in street clothes on sideline
Jake Dolegala (now a Blue Bomber) arrested for impaired driving
Samuel Emilus fined for high hit on Jonathan Moxie
Deontai Williams fined for high hit on Taylor Cornelius
Jayden Dalke fined for tourist hit on Kiondre Smith

Cory Mace Era 2024
Riders issue national apology over marketing campaign
Trevor Reid fined for hit on Kene Onyeka
DaMarcus Fields fined for high hit on Makai Polk
Miles Brown fined for high hit to Zach Collaros
Miles Brown fined for low hit to Chris Streveler
Samuel Emilus fined for blindside block to Demerio Houston
Deontai Williams fined and suspended for suplexing Kalil Pimpleton
CJ Reavis fined for throwing a punch at Jakub Szott

Notoriety going back some years, which seems like an organization/culture problem, IMO.

You forgot to include Duke Williams spitting on opponents in the 2021 West Final.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on October 15, 2024, 01:46:17 PMI like Jayrock and the Riders don't "suck" but they DO have a legitimate reputation to overcome (I'm sure there are more but I don't have 8 hours to commit to finding them all:

Chris Jones Era 2016-2018
Riders fined record amount for "pre-practice" squad, essentially having "as many as 95 players" in Regina
Riders fined for violating ratio rules in game - not playing enough Canadians
Chris Jones fined for tampering - meeting with Johnny Manziel in 2017

Craig Dickenson Era 2019-2023
Loucheiz Purifoy detained by police in restaurant for causing disturbance
AC Leonard suspended three games for failing to provide urine sample and verbal abuse of a drug testing official   
Garrett Marino hits Masoli low in week 5 resulting in season-ending injury
Garrett Marino issued four game suspension for racial comments made towards Masoli
Duke Williams throws helmet at a player in warmups
Duke Williams gets in fight while injured and in street clothes on sideline
Jake Dolegala (now a Blue Bomber) arrested for impaired driving
Samuel Emilus fined for high hit on Jonathan Moxie
Deontai Williams fined for high hit on Taylor Cornelius
Jayden Dalke fined for tourist hit on Kiondre Smith

Cory Mace Era 2024
Riders issue national apology over marketing campaign
Trevor Reid fined for hit on Kene Onyeka
DaMarcus Fields fined for high hit on Makai Polk
Miles Brown fined for high hit to Zach Collaros
Miles Brown fined for low hit to Chris Streveler
Samuel Emilus fined for blindside block to Demerio Houston
Deontai Williams fined and suspended for suplexing Kalil Pimpleton
CJ Reavis fined for throwing a punch at Jakub Szott

Did not Miles Brown knock out Dru Brown also.

Quote from: 55StickCar on October 15, 2024, 02:29:00 PMDid not Miles Brown knock out Dru Brown also.

(https://media.tenor.com/xqM-wENQtKkAAAAM/rick-and-morty-agree.gif)

Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 15, 2024, 01:18:39 AMI don't think they're "dirty" to injure (except Marino), but I do think they're "dirty" in that they explicitly coach to hold and block and do shady things if they can get away with it.

You say they are coached to play just over the line but not enough to be called. If that is the attitude they want there, they are not going to stop taking shots where the advantage out weighs the penalty also.

Just watching with a casual fan one game they asked me "why do they play to hurt?" I had no answer, that's just them, but it is obvious even to the untrained eye that they play differently.

Haven't the riders also make a habit of leg pulling and twisting after play's was over? This season?

I agree they (not to a man, but it still goes on) are on the dirty side and it's been that way for a few years, even as players and coaches come and go.

Quote from: jayrock on October 15, 2024, 12:38:05 PMThe riders have never had an undefeated season.

https://stats.cfldb.ca/league/cfl/best-worst-records/

Then why are you here gloating over a Bomber loss?

Quote from: J5V on October 15, 2024, 04:28:40 PMThen why are you here gloating over a Bomber loss?

Not saying he's trolling you, but you're playing right into his hands at this point.

Quote from: markf on October 15, 2024, 04:11:06 PMHaven't the riders also make a habit of leg pulling and twisting after play's was over? This season?

I agree they (not to a man, but it still goes on) are on the dirty side and it's been that way for a few years, even as players and coaches come and go.

I think the officials need to add that penalty to the rule book, it's being done in the open for all to see, so it hasn't been categorised as an infraction yet.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on October 15, 2024, 04:34:44 PMNot saying he's trolling you, but you're playing right into his hands at this point.

Well we certainly know how it goes in the Rider forum. I'd hate to see that happen here.

Quote from: J5V on October 15, 2024, 04:49:38 PMWell we certainly know how it goes in the Rider forum. I'd hate to see that happen here.

Sure, but jayrock isn't responsible for what happens on another forum. He's a regular contributor here despite the team he supports.

And we have quality mods here. So, I don't think we'll ever see this place devolve into a dumpster fire of brain rot like that other forum.

I guess there is a line between "If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin hard enuf" and going over the line repeatedly in a dangerous manner...

Quote from: Waffler on October 15, 2024, 03:35:09 PMYou say they are coached to play just over the line but not enough to be called. If that is the attitude they want there, they are not going to stop taking shots where the advantage out weighs the penalty also.

Just watching with a casual fan one game they asked me "why do they play to hurt?" I had no answer, that's just them, but it is obvious even to the untrained eye that they play differently.

There are a couple of teams that play to hurt.  It seems to follow C.Jones around, and it lingers in a city even after he leaves.  He (and others) clearly coach to get in every little extra hit they can on every tackle in hopes of injuring or just wearing down the other team.  When you start watching for this, it becomes obvious who the offending teams/coaches are.

I'm not sure if it works, though.  The problem is, if you're focusing on getting in those extra hits and trying to injure, you may not be focusing on your actual job.  And if they waste time coaching this stuff, that's time they are not coaching their real job.

I guess it all depends whether you can knock opponent players out of the game without taking any/many penalties.  And if you can still perform your job -- not having busts in coverage, etc.

It does diminish the game, though, when top players are "taken out" due to cheap shots.

Quote from: markf on October 15, 2024, 04:11:06 PMI agree they (not to a man, but it still goes on) are on the dirty side and it's been that way for a few years, even as players and coaches come and go.

Ya, I was pondering that the other day.  C.Jones amped it up, but it lingered with Shivers, and now Mace.  JOD has been constant much of that time, but not all?  It's weird.  Maybe the team culture just gets passed down to each new player and it propagates forever?

Found this on Riderfans.  They seem to think it helps their case (that refs/command rig it for WPG?).  I think we may have a different interpretation.

(https://www.riderfans.com/forum/filedata/fetch?id=1183913&d=1728997712)

Quote from: TecnoGenius on October 16, 2024, 02:44:47 AMThere are a couple of teams that play to hurt.  It seems to follow C.Jones around, and it lingers in a city even after he leaves.  He (and others) clearly coach to get in every little extra hit they can on every tackle in hopes of injuring or just wearing down the other team.  When you start watching for this, it becomes obvious who the offending teams/coaches are.

I'm not sure if it works, though.  The problem is, if you're focusing on getting in those extra hits and trying to injure, you may not be focusing on your actual job.  And if they waste time coaching this stuff, that's time they are not coaching their real job.

I guess it all depends whether you can knock opponent players out of the game without taking any/many penalties.  And if you can still perform your job -- not having busts in coverage, etc.

It does diminish the game, though, when top players are "taken out" due to cheap shots.

It's not all Jones fault!  It's the remnant of hard hitting football from the past, when the goal was to hit the ball carrier as hard as possible.  Every D coach encourages it, but it's questionable whether it fits in with the new era of player safety and concussion awareness.  It also detracts from the entertainment value and the economics of the league when so many star receivers get taken out by no-name DB's who nobody pays to see play.

There is no problem with clean, hard hits.

Many FS's are lauded for hitting a ton.  Even SAM's like Kramdi. 

Its when the hits happen late, low, high or out of bounds that it becomes an issue.  Facemasks and horsecollars.  Ripping, twisting limbs in piles.

The dirty crap, and it seems certain coaches players do more of that crap than others. 

Is it because they actually encourage those actions?  Or is it because they don't punish those actions?  We know that in the O'Shea school, players are not coached to do this, and are immediately punished and shamed for doing it.  You can't eliminate them 100% from the game, but they can be discouraged.