Has been squeezed and the lifetime ban upheld. I'm not surprised in the ruling.
I am surprised that a player making a bet receives a higher penalty then Kelly did. Let's leave it at that.
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 28, 2024, 02:56:40 PMHas been squeezed and the lifetime ban upheld. I'm not surprised in the ruling.
I am surprised that a player making a bet receives a higher penalty then Kelly did. Let's leave it at that.
One was an emotional reaction to a volatile situation and one was a conceived plan of action.
Any chance Montreal has to forfeit wins they got with him in the lineup? I know they won't have to, but it would be nice.
Quote from: Stretch on August 28, 2024, 03:52:22 PMAny chance Montreal has to forfeit wins they got with him in the lineup? I know they won't have to, but it would be nice.
No but it does show that the arbitration needs to happen more quickly and while a player is suspended. Obviously he was suspended after 4 games but look how long it took to complete the arbitration.
There has to be a better more expedient way to handle any suspension.
It's been discussed before. If a player is suspended for 2 or 3 games after game 16 - 17 for example, he shouldn't be allowed to appeal and continue playing. It could change the outcome of a season.
Two words. Pete Rose.
Now, the fact that the Als have a Sprts Betting site patch on their jerseys is kind of ironic, but still.
Now, can we protest the game they won over us for using an illegal player?
I think its sad what happened to Pete Rose and now Shawn Lemon.
Athlete's are humans, they make mistakes, to give someone a lifetime ban for gambling is ridiculous. League's are filled with athletes who are drug addicts, gang members, adulterers, DUI's etc etc, and the hill we die on is placing a bet?? whatever, sad. The league generates revenue by advertizing gambling to entice people to do it. Now we suspend a player for life. Hypocrites.
We're all human. What does that have to do with anything?
Athletes aren't special, nor should they get special treatment. Lemon made a mistake - multiple times. More importantly here, however, is he didn't take accountability for his actions. Despite being a well-known player in the league, he demonstrated no humility or remorse. In fact, he retired, was then suspended, only to appeal the suspension, "unretire" and then re-join the Als. Comical hubris.
Good riddance.
Did Lemon's actions hurt the game, or affect outcomes? We haven't been given those facts.
Did Lemon know of the leagues rules in this respect? Had he ever heard of Pete Rose? Did he know the potential outcome of his actions? Pretty sure he knew, and thought he wasn't going to get caught, and even if caught, would just get a slap on the wrist.
But, like other posters have said, he had no remorse, and in fact attempted to get around the punishments. He garnered a few more game cheques which was wrong. The CFL could not suspend him during an appeal, but the Als could have. Would we have beaten them with him out of the lineup? He was thier top D player with 5 tackles and a sack... but it was a 15 point loss. Still, its a different game without him on the field.
Seems to me, Kenny Lawler didn't have any remorse for his DUI until it became an issue, months well after the fact. Athletes do all sorts of crazy things that they don't have any remorse for but still are allowed to play. Chad Kelly being one of them. How is this any different than that?? And why is Kelly allowed to play in lemon banned for life?? Its the inconsistency and hypocrisy that bothers me, But whatever, the world is full of messed up things, that no one can explain
Gambling is different because it calls into question the integrity of the game. How many fans would just say "it's fixed" and tune out? Rose, for example, is known to have bet on games he played in and managed. It was not just a few times, he started in 1975 and continued to 1989 when he was caught.
Quote from: Waffler on August 28, 2024, 09:04:33 PMGambling is different because it calls into question the integrity of the game. How many fans would just say "it's fixed" and tune out? Rose, for example, is known to have bet on games he played in and managed. It was not just a few times, he started in 1975 and continued to 1989 when he was caught.
Exactly.
I don't care if players bet on other teams games, but I do care if they bet on their own games.
Quote from: TBURGESS on August 28, 2024, 09:55:40 PMI don't care if players bet on other teams games, but I do care if they bet on their own games.
As Lemon DID, when with Calgary.
Quote from: theaardvark on August 28, 2024, 06:53:52 PMDid Lemon know of the leagues rules in this respect? Had he ever heard of Pete Rose? Did he know the potential outcome of his actions? Pretty sure he knew, and thought he wasn't going to get caught, and even if caught, would just get a slap on the wrist.
Let's go back even further...The Black Sox Scandal of 1919 and Shoeless Joe Jackson! Never played in the BIGS again after that fiasco.
Quote from: Stretch on August 28, 2024, 03:52:22 PMAny chance Montreal has to forfeit wins they got with him in the lineup? I know they won't have to, but it would be nice.
I declare the 2023 GC champs to be WPG due to MTL fielding an illegal player! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Waffler on August 28, 2024, 09:04:33 PMGambling is different because it calls into question the integrity of the game. How many fans would just say "it's fixed" and tune out? Rose, for example, is known to have bet on games he played in and managed. It was not just a few times, he started in 1975 and continued to 1989 when he was caught.
Yup. If players start to rig or throw games then the CFL is ruined for millions of fans. Kelly's dumb moves affect only one person. Sucks for that one person, but it's not the same as destroying a whole league.
Quote from: TBURGESS on August 28, 2024, 09:55:40 PMI don't care if players bet on other teams games, but I do care if they bet on their own games.
Can't have that either, as then they can "criss-cross" by arranging with their friends on other teams to bet on theirs whilst they bet on theirs (you get my meaning!). Criss-cross: Throw Momma From The Train.
My curiosity wonders: how did Lemon get caught? Someone did an audit years later, or did "loose lips sink ships", and who did he miff enough to rat him out?!
It's all really too bad as he always seemed like one of the "good guys" in pressers, etc. He mostly kept his nose clean, which isn't always easy for a DL guy (compare: Marino).
Quote from: TBURGESS on August 28, 2024, 09:55:40 PMI don't care if players bet on other teams games, but I do care if they bet on their own games.
It's "insider trading". Players know better than others, they usually have connections with other players that they've played with, and can get information even if they aren't betting on their current team.
Quote from: theaardvark on August 29, 2024, 04:37:06 AMIt's "insider trading". Players know better than others, they usually have connections with other players that they've played with, and can get information even if they aren't betting on their current team.
So what? That only hurts the bookies, and I don't give a rats *** about them. They make the odds, give themselves a clear advantage, and have their own insider information.
Quote from: TBURGESS on August 29, 2024, 02:41:12 PMSo what? That only hurts the bookies, and I don't give a rats *** about them. They make the odds, give themselves a clear advantage, and have their own insider information.
It has nothing to do with "insider trading". If players are gambling on games, it calls the games into question. Even in games in which they're not playing. You throw this play for me, I'll do it for you next time.
I'm personally having a hard time making a personal stance on this. It's the CFL, no one is getting rich playing or gambling. If players want to throw a few bucks on a game, probably nothing stopping them from doing via their spouse or friend, etc. So lifetime ban seems like heinous overkill.
That said, I am well aware of the fact that all sports leagues take this very seriously. No one needs to know who Pete Rose is. This has happened a half dozen times in that NFL and NHL in the past couple of years that I can recall off the top of my head. Miles Austin lost his NFL coaching job for betting on non-NFL games. The penalties are clearly established and have always been there.
Quote from: TBURGESS on August 29, 2024, 02:41:12 PMSo what? That only hurts the bookies, and I don't give a rats *** about them. They make the odds, give themselves a clear advantage, and have their own insider information.
Another edgy hot take by TUBRGESS which is needlessly argumentative, serves no purpose, and makes little logical sense. I don't think anyone really cares whether you think CFL players should be able to bet on games they don't play in. They can't and get a lifetime ban if they do.
Quote from: Jesse on August 29, 2024, 02:58:44 PMIt has nothing to do with "insider trading". If players are gambling on games, it calls the games into question. Even in games in which they're not playing. You throw this play for me, I'll do it for you next time.
I'm personally having a hard time making a personal stance on this. It's the CFL, no one is getting rich playing or gambling. If players want to throw a few bucks on a game, probably nothing stopping them from doing via their spouse or friend, etc. So lifetime ban seems like heinous overkill.
That said, I am well aware of the fact that all sports leagues take this very seriously. No one needs to know who Pete Rose is. This has happened a half dozen times in that NFL and NHL in the past couple of years that I can recall off the top of my head. Miles Austin lost his NFL coaching job for betting on non-NFL games. The penalties are clearly established and have always been there.
You're assuming that players will throw a game for their friends? I don't see that as realistic.
The reason that leagues take it very seriously is because gambling is a serious business & those who run it don't want anyone to have any advantage over the house. It's the same reason that card counting is thought of as cheating instead of being the smartest gambler in the room.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 29, 2024, 03:36:43 PMAnother edgy hot take by TUBRGESS which is needlessly argumentative, serves no purpose, and makes little logical sense. I don't think anyone really cares whether you think CFL players should be able to bet on games they don't play in. They can't and get a lifetime ban if they do.
Same comment again? Nothing edgy or argumentative about it. It's purpose is to further the current discussion and I don't have any idea what you mean by logical sense.
Quote from: Jesse on August 29, 2024, 02:58:44 PM...lifetime ban seems like heinous overkill.
No question. I think it's meant to set a precedent and also act as a deterrent, though.
There are clearly, very obvious, reasons why virtually every professional sports league in Canada and the USA disallow player gambling. There is POTENTIAL for fixing games. Every player is made aware of this and therefore has no excuse for breaking the rule. Comparing other personal issues like DUI, abuse and other law-breking activities does not directly affect outcome of games whereas gambling - on your own team or other teams - comes with a direct risk of risking the integrity of the game.
Players are also warned that there is a risk of up to a permanent suspension if they do gamble.
Quote from: TBURGESS on August 29, 2024, 03:50:22 PMYou're assuming that players will throw a game for their friends? I don't see that as realistic.
If players won't throw games, then don't have any rules about it.
But it's obviously happened in the past and has made way for very clear rules and very harsh penalties.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on August 29, 2024, 04:43:14 PMNo question. I think it's meant to set a precedent and also act as a deterrent, though.
I wonder if it would have been different with a younger star player (always is, of course).
There are examples of players in other leagues being given "indefinite" suspensions; but are able to appeal after a certain length of time.
Quote from: Jesse on August 29, 2024, 07:09:53 PMIf players won't throw games, then don't have any rules about it.
But it's obviously happened in the past and has made way for very clear rules and very harsh penalties.
Players have thrown their own games, but I can't think of any examples of players throwing games for a friend. If I were a betting man, I wouldn't count on my buddy throwing a game for me.
'It is known' in other leagues is a poor comparator. Has anyone
in the CFL been given a lifetime suspension for gambling before? If not, this sets the precedence going forward.
Gambling isn't mentioned in the CBA or the rules. Assuming that it's in writing somewhere in a contract, then Lemon got what he deserved. If not, then it needs to be added so every player sees it in writing.
Quote from: TBURGESS on August 29, 2024, 03:50:22 PMYou're assuming that players will throw a game for their friends? I don't see that as realistic.
Of course they will with their best bud or old dorm room mate, especially when there are, say, 50000 reasons to do so. If you're a "normal" $100k-ish CFL player, 50000 tax-free reasons can be tempting. Of course, you have to be devoid of morals and (now) willing to risk the Wrath Of Ambrosie.
Quote from: Jesse on August 29, 2024, 07:11:33 PMI wonder if it would have been different with a younger star player (always is, of course).
Ya, banning Lemon now that he's 73 doesn't have the same punch on him if this occurred when he was 24. He likely would have been hanging them up real soon anyhow. Still, it's the best Ambrosie could do, and it sends a message.
Johntay Porter got banned this year by the NBA for sports betting. No professional league is going to allow players to be on games, calls the results into question. Heck, if you go back to the early 1950s, college basketball was way more popular than the pros and they got rocked by a point shaving scandal by promininant players and programs.
On a lighter note ...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GWGCpiuXoAAfNRm?format=jpg&name=900x900)