A win in Toronto and a Calgary loss against Ottawa would put the Bombers well within range of a playoff spot in the West and a shot at the cross over in the East. This would be a game to win.
Injuries are still a prevalent factor for the Bombers but cannot be the excuse to justify another loss. The replacement (next man up) players need to step up and show they can perform and perform well.
Ed Tait's 48-Hour Primer is here! (http://"http://"http://www.bluebombers.com/2024/07/25/48-hour-primer-wpg-at-tor-3/"") and it focuses on an opportunity for Tony Jones. Tony played in all 18 regular season games for Edmonton last year so that experience should help him here should he get an chance to start.
Depth Chart and other updates on the game will be posted here. It is a big game and the Bombers need to be up for it and effective in all three aspects of the game. Let's Go Bombers!
Some numbers going into Saturday's game.
ZC8: 113/173 1406 yards. 65.3 Comp %, 2 TDs, 7 Int.
ND10 31/370 11.9 avg. 50 longest.
BO20 77/415 5.4 avg. 28 longest.
Holm 35 DTs
BA37 34 DTs.
KW19 28 DTs
AB4 28 DTs
WJ5 16 DTS, 3 Sacks.
JT95 13 DTs, 1 Sack.
Adams 12 DTs, 3 Sacks.
Hubert 8 DTs.
Ayers: 10 STs
CAD: 8 STs
Feltmate: 6 STs.
Strev17: 6 TDs
JA27: 2TDs
Feltmate, Cole and Wilson are out.
I think Jones will do well in Wilson spot. He has excellent size and good speed.
Feltmate and Cole are two players that are very good on teams.
Quote from: Pigskin on July 26, 2024, 07:42:15 PMI think Jones will do well in Wilson spot. He has excellent size and good speed.
Feltmate and Cole are two players that are very good on teams.
Nice to hear about Jones. Who steps up on teams?
With a weak defence and Zack really not up to par this may be a hard win. And with Jarian Grant returning punts and kickoffs for the Argos vs our weak coverage teams, I am really scared that this could turn into an Argo blowout.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 26, 2024, 08:01:48 PMNice to hear about Jones. Who steps up on teams?
That's your homework for tonight. Who will fill in for Cole and Feltmate??
Headed to Head:
Collaros: 1406 yards passing, doesn't run, 2TDs, 7Int. Sacks 10
Dukes: 1184 yards passing, 200 yard rushing, 6TDs, 5 Int. Sacks 6.
Dukes can get himself out of trouble with his legs. Looking for WJ5 to contain him.
Buck has to come up with a game plan to keep ZC8 clean.
If we want to win, we have to win the turnover battle. We also have to shut down Grant. Glad we are not going to see RB88 tomorrow.
O'Shea Believes (https://twitter.com/i/status/1816908246348706079)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GTanIaOWAAAweSS?format=jpg&name=large)
Ben Grant @Ben__Grant
Here's how the Argos will line up against the Blue Bombers. McFadden, Mital, Milton, Ungerer, and Baron are in. Dennis, Edouard, Bailey, Brinkman, and Joseph are out. #Argos #CFL
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GTaxn_dXMAAcCjY?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: Pigskin on July 26, 2024, 07:22:53 PMSome numbers going into Saturday's game.
ZC8: 113/173 1406 yards. 65.3 Comp %, 2 TDs, 7 Int.
ND10 31/370 11.9 avg. 50 longest.
BO20 77/415 5.4 avg. 28 longest.
Holm 35 DTs
BA37 34 DTs.
KW19 28 DTs
AB4 28 DTs
WJ5 16 DTS
JT95 13 DTs
Adams 12 DTs
Hubert 8 DTs.
Ayers: 10 STs
CAD: 8 STs
Feltmate: 6 STs.
Strev17: 6 TDs
JA27: 2TDs
Feltmate, Cole and Wilson are out.
A couple of interesting stats that jumped out for me- usually your MLB is the leading tackler on the team, Holm, then BA lead the team in tackles, which is not good as they're downfield!! Jake Thomas has 3 less tackles than WJ5, wow. I can see teams scheming away from WJ, but still, Jake is only 3 tackles behind Willie. Good thing they're making the same dough..
I thought our coverage units this year have been quite good. To say they are suspect makes me think the poster is suspect themself. :D
They certainly have a a major challenge on there hands this week.
The D really just needs to keep doing what they are doing but securing a couple more turnovers would go a long way!
Zach needs to be good Zach not crappy Zach. WR maybe get open to help out the guy! Brady needs to just being a terror in the running game. OL GIVE ZACH TIME which will be a tough task this week. A few Tuddys would be nice.
Go Bombers Go
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 26, 2024, 10:30:11 PMI thought our coverage units this year have been quite good. To say they are suspect makes me think the poster is suspect themself. :D
They certainly have a a major challenge on there hands this week.
The D really just needs to keep doing what they are doing but securing a couple more turnovers would go a long way!
Zach needs to be good Zach not crappy Zach. WR maybe get open to help out the guy! Brady needs to just being a terror in the running game. OL GIVE ZACH TIME which will be a tough task this week. A few Tuddys would be nice.
Go Bombers Go
Facts are presented above
https://3downnation.com/2024/07/26/tony-jones-to-make-first-start-for-winnipeg-blue-bombers-against-argonauts/
https://winnipegsun.com/sports/kase-looking-to-state-his-case-as-blue-bombers-returner
Quote from: dd on July 26, 2024, 10:29:02 PMJake Thomas has 3 less tackles than WJ5, wow. I can see teams scheming away from WJ, but still, Jake is only 3 tackles behind Willie. Good thing they're making the same dough..
Was that /s? Jake is probably making $120k, Willie still up around $175? If they have the same DT stat, that makes Jake an even bigger bargain.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 26, 2024, 10:30:11 PMI thought our coverage units this year have been quite good. To say they are suspect makes me think the poster is suspect themself. :D
Truth. Our coverage has been superb compared to 2023. I don't think we have given up a K return TD yet... and we have given up very few explosions 40+ Y (less than a handful).
The difference from Boo to Miller has been night & day on coverage.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 27, 2024, 09:06:24 AMTruth. Our coverage has been superb compared to 2023. I don't think we have given up a K return TD yet... and we have given up very few explosions 40+ Y (less than a handful).
The difference from Boo to Miller has been night & day on coverage.
A bright light on a down start to be sure
Wouldn't mind seeing the coaching staff scheme something to help Collaros a bit.
Not sure what that would be. But not calling fifty yard passes might be one thing.
Letting Streveller throw the ball would be another.
How to neutralize McManus?
Would be nice to see some trickery, maybe a dribble kick.
And I hope the officiating is better than last game. It would be nice to know what if anything was done about the p.i. Calls from that game.
I wish they could get this officiating problem resolved. The silence on the officiating is stupid.
OK, last DC was a net upgrade for the Bombers.
This one, no slight intended on the guys coming in, but its a distinct downgrade.
We have to get to Dukes early and often. Bring 7, and pray that the DB's can cover if Dukes gets an accurate throw off.
Quote from: markf on July 27, 2024, 03:06:23 PMWouldn't mind seeing the coaching staff scheme something to help Collaros a bit.
Not sure what that would be. But not calling fifty yard passes might be one thing.
Letting Streveller throw the ball would be another.
How to neutralize McManus?
Would be nice to see some trickery, maybe a dribble kick.
And I hope the officiating is better than last game. It would be nice to know what if anything was done about the p.i. Calls from that game.
I wish they could get this officiating problem resolved. The silence on the officiating is stupid.
It feels like there are so many obvious fixes to things that are not being attempted.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 27, 2024, 09:06:24 AMTruth. Our coverage has been superb compared to 2023. I don't think we have given up a K return TD yet... and we have given up very few explosions 40+ Y (less than a handful).
The difference from Boo to Miller has been night & day on coverage.
We shall see how good they really are today. Grant will be back there on punts and kick offs. Will be interesting to see if the bomber special teams can cover him.
Another nice Blue Jays win, a little dinner and off to the Bomber game. Need a big win tonight.
Quote from: BBRT on July 26, 2024, 08:28:59 PMWith a weak defence and Zack really not up to par this may be a hard win. And with Jarian Grant returning punts and kickoffs for the Argos vs our weak coverage teams, I am really scared that this could turn into an Argo blowout.
Our weak coverage teams??? That has been one of the few bright spots for the Bombers this year.
Quote from: bwiser on July 27, 2024, 10:06:23 PMOur weak coverage teams??? That has been one of the few bright spots for the Bombers this year.
We lost Feltmate and Cole that had 10 ST's between them. Not sure exactly how they re-tool the coverage teams. Jones has been a good ST player in the past. I suppose we'll see one of the newly added DB's on ST's as well.
Regardless of how good they might be, it's also a communication between the others and this is their 1st game in that role.
Hopefully Collaros will have someone to throw to today.
Quote from: Blitzer on July 27, 2024, 10:19:42 PMHopefully Collaros will have someone to throw to today.
Hopefully Collaros can throw to someone today.
Milt needs to take a chill pill lol
Jamarion ain't going no where tonight? Screw that guy. The Bombers were trying to get a hold of him and he was awol. Whatever, sometimes the grass is always Bluer. :D
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 27, 2024, 10:59:20 PMMilt needs to take a chill pill lol
Jamarion ain't going no where tonight? Screw that guy. The Bombers were trying to get a hold of him and he was awol. Whatever, sometimes the grass is always Bluer. :D
Maybe he was hanging out at the local pot shop! :D ;)
Too many of those shops to count near where I live in Calgary. Now even a DIAL A POT delivery! ;) They could give it to me for free or even pay me to take it.....STILL NO INTEREST! A nice Irish whiskey bottle of Jamesons or Bushmills I will accept though! :D
Should be EZ to find Pigskin no one is their.
2 and OUT
Nice throw and catch
More mistakes cost them a great drive.
this is getting to be a pattern make a big play and fumble.....d**n
You gotta be kidding me. ***
Zach was rolling, o line was blocking, BO was running and then give the ball away
Despite the fumble..... good start....Got to be encouraged.
D tough
O moving the ball
Zach throwing to three receivers
Keep this up.... Win.
D came to play today.
Okay no serious harm done.
Brady needs to secure, not run like Demski (I love them both, I don't want them coughing up fumbles though).
Great defence..should really have pic 6'ed that one.
Where's the misdirection?
Who's reffing this game? Is #22 anywhere in sight?
Wow. Love that throw and catch
CLERCIUS!
Wallace is a giant.
Secure that ball, boys!
do we only have the one touchdown play?
Double coverage ....lucky it wasn't picked
should have gone for it.. even if we miss its deep in their zone
I recommend they find a new red zone pass play, that one that they just tried does not work. It may have in the past, but not this season.
its dumb how we always try to throw a twenty yard pass when we are inside the 10
Run the ball....please
Quote from: Pete on July 27, 2024, 11:25:37 PMshould have gone for it.. even if we miss its deep in their zone
no poor decision. FG at this time.
Wolitarsky is not the 50-50 guy. Much rather see that throw to Wilson or Clercius. Lucky it wasn't picked.
Alexander whiff
Seems to be just out of,position to make a tackle on his own.
Kramdi. Stepping up so far
SACK ATTACK! :)
Kramdi is amazing!
Kramdi having a game.
Been blitzing the wrong linebacker maybe.
is it my imagination or when ever we score our defence allows the other team to march down the field to get a score? And yes they got Kramdled that drive
Defence has not been the main problem with Bombers this season really. Offence has been mediocre to pathetic a times. Could have had a few more wins with better offence. Special teams no td's either scored or given up I believe, but quite good coverage so far. Kicking game has been fantastic too! Don't think they have let anyone take one to the house yet on special teams or at most maybe one. Grant shutdown so far this game.
Quote from: Pete on July 27, 2024, 11:30:54 PMis it my imagination or when ever we score our defence allows the other team to march down the field to get a score? And yes they got Kramdled that drive
Forcing a FG and not allowing a major is a win for the D.
Nice catch Woli!
Man TSN with the navel gazing.
Nice punt...
Sheehans best kick of the year
Brilliant kick Sheehan
Wow
What is wrong with our offense? We are so vanilla. No play-action, no mis-direction, no pump-fakes, just throws or straight runs. What gives?
That pass to the corner of the end zone ... need a guy like agudosi for that to work.
Arbuckle time - pick 6 please!!
Kramdi game!!
Quote from: The Zipp on July 27, 2024, 11:24:59 PMDouble coverage ....lucky it wasn't picked
Yeah. I agree. Toronto is waiting for that one. Although the receiver should have an advantage but double coverage is tough to deal with.
Blatant holding in the end zone...should be a safety.
And BA didn't make that tackle
That holding was disgusting.
Can we please mix in some play action of some kind?
Need a td not a field goal
More mistakes...this isn't Bomber football
Absolutely no kind of fakery to freeze the D. What is Buck doing?
Quote from: markf on July 27, 2024, 11:42:36 PMNeed a td not a field goal
Not even getting that...
Digesting ball control
have to feel for Collaros , having a decent game and no support
This offense is becoming a Keystone Kops routine. Two turnovers already.
That was a hard hit on Woli..
One hundred yds offence three points
Yeah woli terrible hit.
Well played by Griffin.
Quote from: J5V on July 27, 2024, 11:46:26 PMThis offense is becoming a Keystone Kops routine. Two turnovers already.
and almost a third with Wilson recovering his own
How in the hell is that not roughing the qb?
Finally some play-action.
Little late on the injury spot??
Josh Johnson might be more of a liability
Am I nuts?
Ball was gone.
Then guy knocks collaros down.
Is that not a penalty?
Nice kick.
I call BS
He is fine.
He will be back.
Everyone is against us. We can't get a call from the officials no matter what. Just ridiculous.
zach cant be that fragile!!
Was Dinwiddie fighting with his players?
What's going on on the Argo sidelines? Dinwiddie was losing his mind there.
Quote from: The Zipp on July 28, 2024, 12:01:48 AMWas Dinwiddie fighting with his players?
What else is new?
This really is getting ridiculous. Zach hit for a rtp, no call.m sure he was down a bit, but later they call him out for concussion protocol? Seems like punishment for making it clear there should've been a call.
Coach is freaking out! Lol
You called it Goldie!
Ok now Zach is mad and driven lol
Skip the thirty yd passes
Why oh why won't we do something to slow down the Argo pass rush?
O line is inconsistent - Swiss cheese every third play
and we kept johnson in instead of whitehead
we should be ahead by at least 10 points
I can't rewind where I am at. Was that hit on Zach dirty? Looked like priester (sp?) threw himself to take him out at the knees.
Buck is to predictable.
Now Sergio...
This team just shoots itself in the foot
Oh no
Well are aren't losing
If we can't beat Nick Arbuckle led team, we are in trouble.
That late hit on collaros.... Ref right there.
Have to wonder what could explain no call? Incompetence? Bias?
Zach has played very good
BO has been great minus the fumble...it's mistakes that are costing us.
Buck's offensive schemes are just terrible. We have no creativity whatsoever. It's even worse than Lapo's. I just don't get it. Where is the play action, misdirection, screens, flea-flickers, hitch-screens, etc. The scheme Buck is using is going to get Zach killed. Osh needs to intervene.
Just look at the plays Brown was running for Ottawa yesterday. Lots of creativity. Kept Calgary D off balance all night.
No mention of Dinwiddie losing it from TSN?? Just inane chatter about jim barkers hips??
Quote from: The Zipp on July 28, 2024, 12:13:42 AMZach has played very good
BO has been great minus the fumble...it's mistakes that are costing us.
Agreed. Zach looks like he's sharp.
Seems other teams are taking liberties again, and for some reason the refs aren't making calls. I said I can't rewind so not sure, but I thought there may be helmet contact on that late hit.
Then the one with Priester going low to take out the knees - again, can't see replay so can't say for sure. If it did happen, this is not pretty.
Quote from: The Zipp on July 28, 2024, 12:18:42 AMNo mention of Dinwiddie losing it from TSN?? Just inane chatter about jim barkers hips??
That's what I'd expect from the Toronto Sports Network. Never anything negative about Toronto.
Quote from: The Zipp on July 28, 2024, 12:18:42 AMNo mention of Dinwiddie losing it from TSN?? Just inane chatter about jim barkers hips??
I missed the chatter about Barker's hips. To be fair, if they were making fun of him, I remember him on the sidelines looking like the A&W rootbear.
Anybody hear anything about Woli? Can't afford to lose yet another receiver.
Defense playing well
Bomber receivers can't hold the ball
Buck was concussed in that hit. It was a spear to the head. Those refs don't know the rules from one game to the next.
O Shea looks tired., like drop on the field tired.
Even the offense is. Getting yards.
Are we witnessing the birth of a star with Redha Kramdi?
Decent little dump to BO and then a penalty...huge yard loss
Going to need a pick six.
good coverage on Grant so far
Kick coverage excellent so far.
No whiff from BA there
The Greek Gods and/or Zeus are mad at O'Shea or this team this year for some reason! ;)
Should have another 9 points on the board already! :( Argos don't even deserve to be in this game.
D is playing great! O needs to start to contribute more.
Good for Woli coming back, hope he isn't gonna take another hard hit
3 straight plays - dumps to BO...
Why is Oliviera going down so easily? Is he nicked?
I dunno...Strev in the gun then stuffed, just run from under Centre
Second and two start three yards back.
Buck needs to get it together.
Argos are a dirtbag team.
should have made it 4 straight to brady
Quote from: The Zipp on July 28, 2024, 12:38:09 AMI dunno...Strev in the gun then stuffed, just run from under Centre
Exactly. This offensive scheme is just terrible.
BO is nicked from blocking trying to keep Zach from being sacked.... honestly what is wrong with our O line? No protection, defence coming clean off the line.
Willie is getting owned
I also see Bighill can't make a tackle on his own. Sure glad Kramdi came to play tonight
Jeff Hamilton says it best:
Facing 2nd and 2, and Bombers call Streveler in the shotgun, as if he hasn't been getting 4 or 5 yards on the line all game.
The Bombers are playing themselves tonight in a must-win.
I like what I'm seeing from Case so far. Not the fastest but has good vision and secures the ball.
Quote from: DM83 on July 28, 2024, 12:25:49 AMDefense playing well
Bomber receivers can't hold the ball
Buck was concussed in that hit. It was a spear to the head. Those refs don't know the rules from one game to the next.
O Shea looks tired., like drop on the field tired.
Even the offense is. Getting yards.
what game r u watching?
we have zero creativity
Brady going down way too easily. He wasn't like this last year.
Starts and ends with the o line...paddy having a tough night
Quote from: The Zipp on July 28, 2024, 12:01:48 AMWas Dinwiddie fighting with his players?
I'm a little bit behind.
I'm pretty sure that ballistic coach wasn't Dinwiddie. This guy was wearing glasses and looked much fatter. Besides, 2 civvies guys (IR players?) held him back from chasing the OL further... players don't hold back HC's... must be a unit coach or coordinator.
Almost time for the bombers D to give up a lucky long bomb
Quote from: barbk on July 28, 2024, 12:42:51 AMI also see Bighill can't make a tackle on his own. Sure glad Kramdi came to play tonight
Second half biggie got trucked
Bomber D starting to gas-out. The O is not helping this team at all.
bighill got pancaked!!!
Man Bighill is so done.
The D can't stay on the field the whole game. O needs to impose itself and eat some time off the clock to give the D a break.
we need a drive. Is johnson even on the field? Demski also very quiet
I cannot understand this scheme on O at all. It's like someone is impersonating Buck Pierce. This is not like him. He sure didn't play this way.
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 12:50:44 AMThe D can't stay on the field the whole game. O needs to impose itself and eat some time off the clock to give the D a break.
We're winning time of possession by two minutes.
Thinking you are goin to beat the argos defense with a short pass to Josh Johnson???
Keep feeding Wilson and Clercius the ball
kolonkowski is a turnstile
O line is nowhere to be found - they should be embarrassed.
time to put strev in...zach aint mobile as he used to be
Where is the screen play?
looks like TO is over loading the Oline
Quote from: Pete on July 28, 2024, 12:55:02 AMkolonkowski is a turnstile
He's been below average all season.
So much for Bully Football
Wow that Willie is top notch
There are ways to help the OL. This ain't it.
Maybe a few series with Strev rolling out. Argos are just overpowering our o line.
who would have thought that Case would have more return yards than Grant.
at least fake some running plays even sweeps, they are teeing off
Finally an Argo penalty. I can't believe it!
Do we even have an offensive line coach? Why isn't there an adjustment at halftime?
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 12:56:58 AMThere are ways to help the OL. This ain't it.
They gotta help themselves too...just getting overpowered. But yes - rolling out the qb and moving the pocket may help
Get in line,.....the guards are a couple of slow useless fat guys.
That Johnson guy is useless. What is his average? A half yard.
Time to turn this crap off. If I were Collaros I would rifle the ball at the guards heads
65 o line looks not that good.
Buck really needs to have his head checked. O'Shea can't be happy with this play calling.
Quote from: The Zipp on July 28, 2024, 12:58:09 AMMaybe a few series with Strev rolling out. Argos are just overpowering our o line.
Yes. Collaros has to roll out. Enough of this dropping straight back. There's 12 guys in a big bunch and Collaros is in the middle. What the hell.
The D could have had 2 or 3 pick-sixes by now.
unbelievable
That's PI!
that looked like pi
This has got to be pass interference
I see PI on demski
Why not put streveller in?
This is not working at all.
Try something else.
If we get screwed on this one some kind of formal complaint needs to be filed.
screwed again
Quote from: The Zipp on July 28, 2024, 12:38:09 AMI dunno...Strev in the gun then stuffed, just run from under Centre
Ya, that was dumb. Empty backfield, Strev alone back there, 2nd & 2... wonder what the play is?? Ya, no one else was confused either.
Now, if you put the RB back there with Strev, then the D has a conundrum!
Holy - how is that possible ??
OMG!
Why do they go to the control booth? lets just shake hands and go home. This is Toronto
How does that stand?
wow...terrible call
Quote from: The Zipp on July 28, 2024, 12:36:37 AM3 straight plays - dumps to BO...
I'm fine with BO dumps, in fact I've been calling for more of them. AH33 dumps were a staple of the Nichols game. If BO is getting 5-8 on every dump, that's perfectly fine with me. If TOR wants to ignore Brady sneaking out to cover downfield, let them.
This is utter ********. It is getting ridiculous. I don't wear a tinfoil hat but may need to soon.
OMfG.... what is wrong with the command centre and refs? That kind of year
Well guys, this league just became a huge joke.
Soon Vegas won't allow betting on cfl.
It's becoming WWE.
Every (&(^*^ game... Demski again.
Anyone else want to admit that Demaki has a problem?
I dont care if we have to put Augustine in as reciever ..bench demski
Hahahah Demski.
demski dont learn easy....supposed to shift ball to opposite side away from tackler
OShea needs to lose it.
HOLD ON TO THE F'N BALL!!!!
4 turnovers to none. Don't deserve to win.
if it was the nhl Id swear we are tanking to get a high draft pick
Coaches, players all taking turns screwing up.
Quote from: Pete on July 28, 2024, 01:13:11 AMOShea needs to lose it.
Time for some tough love.
defence is exhausted and disheartened now
What a waste of a tremendous defensive performance.
D looks defeated finally.
Quote from: Pete on July 28, 2024, 01:12:32 AMI dont care if we have to put Augustine in as reciever ..bench demski
O'Shea loves his vets.... that would never happen. Stubborn
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 01:15:16 AMWhat a waste of a tremendous defensive performance.
No kidding.
The officiating isn't helping either.
D is gassed.
Oh what's this, another Demski fumble. Oh, he ll learn from the last one they said. What a joke. This guy is a turnover machine. Back breaking fumble yet again, cost us the game, again. Do you see the trend with this guy?!? Yep, we don't need no Rasheed Bailey in our lineup. What a complete and total joke of an offense. 6 big, huge points so far for 3 1/2 quarters of play. 6 points!!
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 01:17:06 AMD is gassed.
I'm gassed just watching this BS.
Finally Bighill made a play... watch the spot, refs will say they got 1st down.
shades of yesteryear...way to go BIGGY
Bighill makes a play
Huge...Argo's kick the fg this game is over
Watch them screw us with the mark.
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 12:52:46 AMI cannot understand this scheme on O at all. It's like someone is impersonating Buck Pierce. This is not like him. He sure didn't play this way.
Buck is standing on the sidelines, which is a bit odd for him... normally he's a booth guy. Does anyone know if he did this last week?
The Johnson hitch screen has been run 3 times so far (I'm at the start of 4Q). 2 times it was a useless failure, one time we got tiny yards.
Quote from: barbk on July 28, 2024, 01:18:45 AMFinally Bighill made a play... watch the spot, refs will say they got 1st down.
They are going to try.
Defence has given up zero points after turnovers that they were on the field for.
wow..bighill makes a play!!
No head-to-head contact there. No flag.
why no penalty on sopik?
Helmet to helmet tackle
why isnt the argo player removeed from the game
Quote from: The Zipp on July 28, 2024, 12:55:31 AMO line is nowhere to be found - they should be embarrassed.
OL is single-handedly losing this game for us (I'm starting 4Q just now). Zach taking a ton of punishment. And now it's not even stunts... just guys bull rushing.
Don't blame just Ko-man... Neuf is screwing up, Big Stan is taking penalties. I'm sure Lofton is screwing up too. It's their worst performance this season, and that's saying something.
Notice when the Bombers flip the ball to the refs they ignore it and let it hit the ground or they swat it away? Watch for it. There is definitely something going on.
heck of a play by zach..
Zach hits him in stride. What a great throw.
I think Johnson put his head down first. That guy is tough!!
the bombers have to control the clock to win
Time for the defense to make a statement. No long bombs please
How are we losing turnover battle 4-0 and tied
Thank you Pokey! We needed that so bad.
Quote from: Tiger on July 28, 2024, 01:26:28 AMHow are we losing turnover battle 4-0 and tied
4-1. D forced a turnover on downs.
That's procedure.
Amazing. They got it right.
What, are they trying to make up for screwing us?
Yeah going for the pi Hail Mary
Ran into the defender
Quote from: bwiser on July 28, 2024, 01:07:56 AMWhy do they go to the control booth? lets just shake hands and go home. This is Toronto
Even all of Riderfans forum thinks we got robbed on the Demski non-DPI. He was super early, holding his arm, and he was twisting the receiver. That is DPI all day every day.
Why can't command get this right?
There's no PI there!
Make up call from that Demski PI
lol...tit for tat call
Quote from: Big Daddy on July 28, 2024, 01:08:52 AMThis is utter ********. It is getting ridiculous. I don't wear a tinfoil hat but may need to soon.
I always have extra!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 28, 2024, 01:33:21 AMEven all of Riderfans forum thinks we got robbed on the Demski non-DPI. He was super early, holding his arm, and he was twisting the receiver. That is DPI all day every day.
Why can't command get this right?
Because it is not their job to get it right.
Getting great field position - run the ball!!
Wow! Daniels was holding Nickol's arm! It's O PI if anything.
Just don't give the ball to Demski LOL
Run it again !!
Why isn't the clock running? It never ran the whole play.
Quote from: barbk on July 28, 2024, 01:12:06 AMEvery (&(^*^ game... Demski again.
Oh my word... Are our coaches mentally handicapped? Do they not go to Demski after last week and tell him that he his mandated to double-arm every catch now?? Do they not talk to the players at all?
Demski should never be allowed to touch the ball with one arm.
We completely out-play TOR all night and we're going to lose because no one can secure the ball and command calls a fake DPI. (I'm at 4Q8:00.)
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 01:35:16 AMWow! Daniels was holding Nickol's arm! It's O PI if anything.
For sure.
This place is as bad as Regina!
I don't hate the gamble - however
Yeah, right, we ran two run plays and it only took 13 seconds. What a rip-off.
Quote from: barbk on July 28, 2024, 01:35:31 AMJust don't give the ball to Demski LOL
I just said that out loud here!
He got that. First down.
What a ***** ball placement.
he didnt make it
Man this league is becoming a joke.
dumb call by the coach
Omfg
That's horseshit!
Why oh why in a low scoring game do you not kick the field goal??
He's not down until his knee touches. He made it!
Quote from: Go_Big_D on July 28, 2024, 01:41:08 AMdumb call by the coach
Gotta take the points when you can in a low scoring game
Why wasn't the clock running?
They stole 5 seconds a play there.
My god Toronto is dreadful offensively
Now you guys see why I hate Toronto. They are disgusting. What a rip job.
omg is toronto bad as the bombers or are the bombers good as the argos!!??
Carey wasn't even down yet and the clock had already stopped. Techno?
we just gifted them this game
OMG what the hell Sergio?
Now Sergio decides to stink???
Taking turns screwing up.
Head coach on down.
Absolutely deserved to lose.
I may puke.
What a dreadful game.
Folks - this is just a bad team
Quote from: The Zipp on July 28, 2024, 01:53:16 AMFolks - this is just a bad team
That's what I was thinking. But it's not ending.
dumb call on 3rd and one...should have been at least a run over the end at least
A game we should have won by 21.
Absolutely PITIFUL!!!
Well, we found a way to lose this game, game should never have went into OT. Kick the field goal instead of going for it on 3rd and short and we win the game. Arbuckle hasn't moved the ball all game, take the points and win the game. Ards you still think MOS is best coach in the league??? He cost us the game tonightn
This is one of those games where the Bombers beat themselves in the final minute and a half. Unreal how a series of poor execution (third down gamble, first drive in OT, and then missed FG) cost them a very good chance of victory.
3 fumbles ( 2 lost ), 1 turnover on downs, 1 pic 6, 2 missed FG's.
That's enough to lose 3 or 4 games.
This was not a game we could afford to lose and to prevent the slide continuing.
MOS with another bad call to lose yet another game we could have won despite all the turnovers we gifted them. How many fumbles now for Demski this season!
I am so done right now, I haven't been this pissed off about a bomber game in decades.
Quote from: dd on July 28, 2024, 01:56:23 AMWell, we found a way to lose this game, game should never have went into OT. Kick the field goal instead of going for it on 3rd and short and we win the game. Arbuckle hasn't moved the ball all game, take the points and win the game. Ards you still think MOS is best coach in the league??? He cost us the game tonightn
I didn't mind the call. That's not the first play I'd go to to explain the loss.
We have seen ugly games before but that was pathetic
Comedy of errors
We used to find ways to win
Now we find ways to lose
So sad because we could have stomped them but our execution was pathetic
Silver linings:
Zach looked good
Wilson looked great
Brady was good
Kramdi and Biggie good
Griffin was good
Ford was good
I'll eat heavy crow re ball security and Demski, 3 kinds, baked, fried and bbq'd.
Sad day in Bomberland to be sure
It's a painful game to lose but in case anyone is unaware, we are not a Grey Cup team this year. I would rather take a resounding thud than an 11-7 season. Personnel changes are coming for offence and defense eventually.
Still say we may be 5-13.
OMG that was bad!!
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 28, 2024, 01:59:32 AMIt's a painful game to lose but in case anyone is unaware, we are not a Grey Cup team this year. I would rather take a resounding thud than an 11-7 season. Personnel changes are coming for offence and defense eventually.
Sure but defense played an amazing game tonight. Jordan Younger deserves all kinds of praise. He has these guys playing great. Buck Pierce and the offense not so much.
I can't imagine what O'Shea is going to say in his presser tonight.
I was thinking the Bombers would get smoked however we still found a way to lose in OT. Castillo missing 2 FGs and a pick six and 4 turnovers with that last 3 and 1 gamble when in FG range....yeah and a L is still a L and the slide continues. Back to back against BC isn't looking very promising right now....
I put this one on MOS though as at the end of the day we were in a position to kick for the winning FG and let our D stop the Argos with 49 seconds left on the clock. Even the TSN panel agreed on this not that I always agree with them....but it was unanimous!
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 02:04:18 AMI can't imagine what O'Shea is going to say in his presser tonight.
Circle talk..
I thought the smart move was to try and draw the Argos offside while burning off another 20 seconds. Then kick the FG. OTOH, it was not Castillo's day obviously.
Roster management continues to be run by amateurs ( I'd use another word but would get banned ). Our only back up receiver was Case and he was our primary returner. Did we really need to add 2 more DB's instead?
Our interior DL was marginally better but against a poor QB tandem. So I don't give them particularly a thumbs up per se. The Argo offence only scored 9 points and we lost? I did think we got a bad call on the non PI.
That pick 6/defensive pass interference cost the Bombers the game. I can't believe that. That is bush league.
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on July 28, 2024, 02:05:33 AMI was thinking the Bombers would get smoked however we still found a way to lose in OT. Castillo missing 2 FGs and a pick six and 4 turnovers with that last 3 and 1 gamble when in FG range....yeah and a L is still a L and the slide continues. Back to back against BC isn't looking very promising right now....
I put this one on MOS though as at the end of the day we were in a position to kick for the winning FG and let our D stop the Argos with 49 seconds left on the clock. Even the TSN panel agreed on this not that I always agree with them....but it was unanimous!
What, because Castillo was money tonight? 20-20 hindsight. When was the last time we were stuffed on a third and one? I still say we got a bad spot on the ball and screwed by the CC. Looked liked he had it to me.
On OSHEA post game press at least there was a little emotion.... get off the matt? nice way to put it
Bad teams find ways to lose close games. The Bombers are a bad team...exacerbated by poor roster decisions by O'Shea and some bad play-calling by Buck Pierce.
This team is a joke, top down. Veteran coaches making errors every game this year. Veteran players making rookie mistakes. Lets keep "sticking to the process" and losing.
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 02:02:54 AMSure but defense played an amazing game tonight. Jordan Younger deserves all kinds of praise. He has these guys playing great. Buck Pierce and the offense not so much.
Started with 3 rookie receivers. Lost Woli for most of the game forcing Case in at receiver. Lost Johnson for awhile forcing Streveler in at receiver.
The game was lost on turnovers and the one that hurt the most is not kicking the FG with less than a minute left.
Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.
Overall I thought a lot of the rookies played pretty well. That said, begin the airlift or activate someone off the PR.
If neither of those 2 OL aren't better than ( pick your flavour ) then find a new one.
I dunno. Is there a trade we could make for a player coming off of 6 game IR, if in fact anyone is actually coming off?
We have a few redundant pieces we might consider trading. We aren't in 2025 season yet, but the season is definitely on the line. Lose one more game in the next 2 and it's probably over. Win both games and that will give us some hope although IMO it's now false hope.
Calgary needs to tank a few games so we have a chance to finish 3rd.
Great. They play the Argos back to back, then the Redblacks and then the Elks twice. That should be at least 3 wins over the next 5.
Our chance to get a crossover spot is likely gone with this loss to the Argos. Our only chance now is to catch Calgary who, remarkably, is only one win ahead of us. Believe it or not, the season is not lost.
O'Shea still putting on a brave face in defeat.....talking about getting up off the mat....this game was very winnable as both Argo QBs were basically ineffective. Zach threw for over 300 yards for the first time this season but was let down by his receivers who coughed up the ball 3 times after making the completion....Demski with two. Also Brady fumbling on a promising drive....Zach was also pummelled and sacked 5 times and you could tell he was hurting and even got pulled from the game by the injury spotter.
At the end of the day we found a way to more than one way loose and Castillo's bubble burst missing two FGs....most notably the one in OT. We were once a good enough team to overcome those turnovers but our team has been gutted with key injuries and Woli looked down and out with that hit to the ribs where he coughed up the ball. So yeah....despite the good play of Kramdi, Wilson, Biggie, and Brady we still managed to beat ourselves.
Plus we seem to ONLY use Strevvy for short yardage and despite being 18 for 18 on 3rd and short he got stuffed on 3 and short while we were in FG range. We didn't get a good spot whatsoever and my initial reaction was that he had made it. Well the football gods did us no favours today.....
BC up next at home....MOS said we need to get back up off the mat....but after awhile it gets harder and harder to do it because we are so decimated injury wise.
This isn't our year.....whether we're able to get back off the mat remains to be seen. I'm hopeful....as ever
Not a. Lot of guys looking like. They are "going to get up off the Matt"
Let's face it., if they don't bring in a half dozen new guys, it's hockey season. The interior offensive line are an embarrassment to watch.
If I were the QBs on this team, I'd hand the ball off, and roll out every play. I mean they are going to get seriously hurt.
What's the definition of insanity?.... that's right, doing the same thing over and over and
expecting different results.
Well do they fire the offensive co-ordinator? or, does OShea looks like he's tired of this? Fack this was awful.
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 02:02:54 AMSure but defense played an amazing game tonight. Jordan Younger deserves all kinds of praise. He has these guys playing great. Buck Pierce and the offense not so much.
We were playing 2 third string Qbs. Hold off on the praise until we face a legit Qb. Last week was a #2 Qb too and we lost that game too.
No way we should be losing games where 2nd and 3rd string Qbs are in. God help us when we play BC!!
If the Bombers improve EVERY game from now on and peak in the playoffs who knows what could happen.
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on July 28, 2024, 02:05:33 AMEven the TSN panel agreed on this not that I always agree with them....but it was unanimous!
It wasn't. Panel said half said go for it, half said kick the FG.
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on July 28, 2024, 02:05:33 AMI was thinking the Bombers would get smoked however we still found a way to lose in OT.
Tough loss, but we all kinda had a feeling going into OT we'd screw it up again, eh?
- I fully agree with the decision to go for it on 3rd down & a short 1. MOS always goes for it. Always. It's automatic. Strev hasn't missed yet this year. MOS saying in post-game he would go for the FG is him just CYA before he has to face the press all week. Even though our D was playing well, who here is 100% sure we stop long-pass Arbuckle from getting 2-3 deep ones for a TD?? Knowing our luck he does, or at the very least ties it and we go to lose in OT anyway. You play to win, especially when you're having a crap year! (Remember Lapo going for 2PT to win a few years ago?) P.S. Strev had it and refs ripped us off again: when you do the reach-forward thing, Strev needs to have it wave in the air so spotters can get the spot right on review.
- Our D played amazing.
- Our ST coverage played amazing (we got more return yards than Grant).
- Our O played pretty well, except for the dumb turnovers. It was a lot like the SSK game, where we basically lost due to turnovers and ref calls.
- Command totally botched the Demski non-DPI that may have cost us the game. Early + turning the R means DPI. Every fan across the league can see it, why can't command? I think a big problem with these calls going against us is the refs on the field aren't throwing flags for us, then command uses the old "it must be egregious to overturn" mantra... putting too much weight on the opinion of a couple of bad on-field refs.
- Castillo FG miss from ~43 at that moment is inexcusable. Remember why we fired Leggs? Choking at the big moment... ya, well, that's his biggest choke yet. And look who then steals the win from us? Ya, ex-Bomber Lirim. The irony.
- TOR is the 2nd best East team, and will put a massive challenge to MTL to go to the GC. The fact we were out-playing them all night is incredibly encouraging. Same with SSK: we hung right with the 2nd best (or best) team in the W.
I'm not as down as some of you guys. We are playing well enough, even with massive injury holes and a zillion rookies, but just find new ways to lose every time. It's actually quite incredible we're even in these games at all. It's not that we're sucking, it's that we're blowing it. There's got to be a solution to all the fumbles.
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 02:02:54 AMSure but defense played an amazing game tonight. Jordan Younger deserves all kinds of praise. He has these guys playing great. Buck Pierce and the offense not so much.
Same with Mike Miller, he's doing an excellent job for a rookie coach.
Everyone's overlooking:
Zach looked great tonight! No underthrows. No legit INTs. I think he's worked on his delay problem, and his solution was a faster wind up/release. His reads were good (except the double-coverage EZ corner attempt which hasn't worked all season).
And all this while he was getting completely hosed by TOR DL mostly bringing just 4 and our OL disintegrating on most plays.
If Zach is back, and we start getting IR Rs back, our O may finally start clicking... as long as the OL can stop taking steps backwards.
Should have gone play action on 1st down in OT and gone for the BLM kill shot all the way to the EZ. No one anywhere would be expecting that. Brady run on 1st was dumb as everyone knew it was Brady run for almost no gain.
Well that was sad. Defense was outstanding. Teams shut down Grant, and Case was better tonight.
BO20 13/96 yards 7.4 average. 13 carries is sad. Receiving 6/51, 8.5 avg.
ZC8 25/32 317 yards 1TD, 1 Int.
5 Turnovers, Terrible.
Castillo 2/4, Sad.
Woli, and Neuf injured.
Buck out coached again. No solution for the blitz.
Hard to fathom how it was a tie at the half when despite the turnovers we were in such control
Fumbles, fumbles etc., a fluky pick 6 and 2 missed field goals ----- geez
After our OT FG attempt gets only a single, why did the D coordinator only have a 3-4 dline on their 1st play.
Stuff the gaps ---- don't give up the easy run play that we all knew the Argos would run -- geez
Quote from: Pigskin on July 28, 2024, 03:24:27 AMWoli, and Neuf injured.
Did anyone see what happened to Neuf? I didn't even notice. What part of the game did he get injured (so I can go look)?
If we lose Neuf now, we're totally up poop creek. Wallace isn't anywhere close to ready and Eli is too small, and that's not his spot.
Quote from: Jockitch on July 28, 2024, 03:28:34 AMAfter our OT FG attempt gets only a single, why did the D coordinator only have a 3-4 dline on their 1st play.
Stuff the gaps ---- don't give up the easy run play that we all knew the Argos would run -- geez
TOR passed on 1st down. Good thing we didn't run blitz!
Collaros s body language tonight told me he s had enough of this porous offensive line. He took a beating tonight and he deserved better. His supporting cast totally let him down with Woli, Demski, and Olivera fumbling the game away for us.
But the refs made some awesome calls once again for our cause. Nice non call on the PI for a pick 6, and brutal spot on streveller s 3rd down play.
Veteran errors seemingly every quarter are costing the team dearly.
3rd and 1 is a gimme for Streveler EXCEPT the one time when it is a killer to not get it.
O line is bad.
Collaros moves like he is 50 years old.
Injuries. Injuries. Injuries.
Poor management decisions. Poor coaching decisions.
Collaros was one of the bright spots in tonight's game. He took a tremendous pounding, was taken out by safety spotter, came back and threw for over 300 yds, and watched while Demski fumbled it away, and again, watched Woli turn it over as well as Olivera.
The O line had a horrible game and should pay for physio therapy Collaros is going to need to get him ready for next game. Aside from Bryant, none of them would be starting on any other team.
Quote from: dd on July 28, 2024, 03:38:43 AMCollaros s body language tonight told me he s had enough of this porous offensive line. He took a beating tonight and he deserved better. His supporting cast totally let him down with Woli, Demski, and Olivera fumbling the game away for us.
Collaros was awesome. An actual legit fantasy pick for once... only the 2nd time this season. It was like all of Collaros' problems had been sorted out. Seriously.
The OL is simply unacceptable and we won't win many games with them so bad. They were
getting beaten by 4 regularly, if not predominantly. TOR didn't even need to blitz much. We didn't do many jumbo or TE sets, but that makes sense because we have no FB! As others noted, Buck could have done some more play action, RPO, sweeps and bootlegs to keep the DL more honest.
I think the key need right now is legit OLmen, just like I whinged to death about in the "We're an O focused team" thread:
http://forums.bluebombers.com/index.php?topic=55722.0
But maybe my opinion will change once I identify where Neuf went out. It's a shame, as our OL was appearing to be improving all the way up to the last game.
Think back to when Zach was best in past years: there'd be whole games where Ds would get their paws on him only zero or one times. Clearly Zach can still be great if he has half decent protection.
Quote from: dd on July 28, 2024, 05:22:23 AMAside from Bryant, none of them would be starting on any other team.
Even Bryant screwed up and cost us a 15 UR-FM that got applied
after the play leaving us with 2nd & 25. That mistake blew that whole series.
I swear on O every single player took turns "costing us the game". So many "game costers" it's astounding we were still the better team and a FG inch away from possibly winning. Did anyone on O not have a major screw up?
Quote from: Ducky on July 28, 2024, 05:06:11 AMCollaros moves like he is 50 years old.
You would too if you got pounded like he did all night!
He was actually doing more of what I said he needs to do: turn into Ricky Ray and sit in the pocket and get those balls out at the last second and, unfortunately, take the hit if the OL is garbage.
On the OLine we have the ratio room to insert our PR Olineman Vanterpool and Randolph...question is are they on the PR solely because of their passports, or are they not good enough to start?
Regarding ratio, if we're sticking with BA, Bryant, Jefferson, Lofton, and Nichols as starters, why aren't we taking advantage of the Nationalized American rule?
Nationalized American players are defined as having played with their current team for 3 years or at least 5 years in the League. One Nationalized American player may be listed as one of the eight National starters.
This would give us even more ratio flexibility. I know MOS has in the past expressed his distaste for the designated national rule when teams used it to get an imp to replace a national after one snap so they could play most of the game, but we've got so many imp vets that we're starting... (Designated Nationalized Americans can replace Cdn starters for up to 25 Snaps)
Why not give us more flexibility with the ratio by designating one of our imp starting vets as a Nationalized American so we can dress players who give us the best chance to win?
Why is the o line decent at run blocking and terrible at pass protection?
Quote from: Slingin Sammy on July 28, 2024, 12:10:47 PMOn the OLine we have the ratio room to insert our PR Olineman Vanterpool and Randolph...question is are they on the PR solely because of their passports, or are they not good enough to start?
Regarding ratio, if we're sticking with BA, Bryant, Jefferson, Lofton, and Nichols as starters, why aren't we taking advantage of the Nationalized American rule?
Nationalized American players are defined as having played with their current team for 3 years or at least 5 years in the League. One Nationalized American player may be listed as one of the eight National starters.
This would give us even more ratio flexibility. I know MOS has in the past expressed his distaste for the designated national rule when teams used it to get an imp to replace a national after one snap so they could play most of the game, but we've got so many imp vets that we're starting... (Designated Nationalized Americans can replace Cdn starters for up to 25 Snaps)
Why not give us more flexibility with the ratio by designating one of our imp starting vets as a Nationalized American so we can dress players who give us the best chance to win?
More ratio flexibility to do what? We're already starting 10 Canadians. Two DI's are on defence. 3 additional imports that aren't starting are on defence.
Case was the only back up receiver and he was in his 2nd game. At one point we had to put Streveler in as a receiver when Johnson was pulled after getting hit.
Nick and Noah Hallett, Bridges, Griffin and McGhee were all extra DB's so we had a lot of flexibility on that side of the ball.
3 Canadian back LB's + Ayers. Hubert, Thomas, Gauthier on defence as well.
Anybody else surprised they didn't review Castillo's field goal in OT? It looked like it went right over the left upright. I believe in the NFL that's ruled as good. Anybody know if it's the same in the CFL? I can't find anything on it. At the very least, I thought they should have reviewed it.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 28, 2024, 10:02:39 AMYou would too if you got pounded like he did all night!
He was actually doing more of what I said he needs to do: turn into Ricky Ray and sit in the pocket and get those balls out at the last second and, unfortunately, take the hit if the OL is garbage.
Exactly
I thought Collaros played an outstanding game given the pathetic performance of the O line. He was constantly rushed and hammered on every stinking play. The O line should be ashamed of themselves and I'd be making changes there immediately. We have ratio room, buh bye Dobson and get rid of our centre
Quote from: dd on July 28, 2024, 02:46:20 PMExactly
I thought Collaros played an outstanding game given the pathetic performance of the O line. He was constantly rushed and hammered on every stinking play. The O line should be ashamed of themselves and I'd be making changes there immediately. We have ratio room, buh bye Dobson and get rid of our centre
Agree, that is the best performance we could have hoped for from Collaros.
Quote from: bomb squad on July 28, 2024, 02:28:38 PMAnybody else surprised they didn't review Castillo's field goal in OT? It looked like it went right over the left upright. I believe in the NFL that's ruled as good. Anybody know if it's the same in the CFL? I can't find anything on it. At the very least, I thought they should have reviewed it.
I was surprised they didn't review the IC on Demski in the OT.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 28, 2024, 01:19:45 AMBuck is standing on the sidelines, which is a bit odd for him... normally he's a booth guy. Does anyone know if he did this last week?
I was wondering who actually is in the booth? They didn't show it as they usually do.
Collaros simply got pushed to the ground and took a short nap. His head didn't even bounce off of the turf. He didn't complain when the spotter took him out. That's worrisome to me. The fact that we're calling a 300 yard 1 TD 1 Pick game a great game for Collaros shows you how far he's fallen.
The Argo's decided to go for 3rd and 1 instead of taking the FG that would have put them up by 10 and got stuffed. Cue our comeback! A busted coverage for 7. A drive for an easy FG to put us up by 3. MOS ignores what he saw 5 minutes earlier. Goes on 3rd and 1 and we get stuffed. Both team need to learn to take the points when they are there.
The refs called PI the same both ways. They allowed contact. Personally I thought the Pick 6 was PI & the deep ball at the end of the game was PI on us, but that's not how they were calling it.
ELI looked pretty bad to start, but got better as the game went on. His run blocking is really good.
We deserved to lose. 5 turn overs. 2 missed FG's, one in OT. 5 sacks given up. Against their 3rd string QB who consistently threw behind open receivers.
As it stands, we're out of the playoffs. 1 loss behind Calgary, who has a game in hand. 2 behind Toronto who has a game in hand & gets the playoff spot if we're tied in the standings. If we don't get off of the matt against BC, we're pretty much cooked.
Quote from: bomb squad on July 28, 2024, 02:28:38 PMAnybody else surprised they didn't review Castillo's field goal in OT? It looked like it went right over the left upright. I believe in the NFL that's ruled as good. Anybody know if it's the same in the CFL? I can't find anything on it. At the very least, I thought they should have reviewed it.
A potential scoring play is automatically reviewed isn't it? Either way, I didn't think it was in.
Quote from: TBURGESS on July 28, 2024, 03:18:33 PMCollaros simply got pushed to the ground and took a short nap. His head didn't even bounce off of the turf. He didn't complain when the spotter took him out. That's worrisome to me. The fact that we're calling a 300 yard 1 TD 1 Pick game a great game for Collaros shows you how far he's fallen.
The Argo's decided to go for 3rd and 1 instead of taking the FG that would have put them up by 10 and got stuffed. Cue our comeback! A busted coverage for 7. A drive for an easy FG to put us up by 3. MOS ignores what he saw 5 minutes earlier. Goes on 3rd and 1 and we get stuffed. Both team need to learn to take the points when they are there.
The refs called PI the same both ways. They allowed contact. Personally I thought the Pick 6 was PI & the deep ball at the end of the game was PI on us, but that's not how they were calling it.
ELI looked pretty bad to start, but got better as the game went on. His run blocking is really good.
We deserved to lose. 5 turn overs. 2 missed FG's, one in OT. 5 sacks given up. Against their 3rd string QB who consistently threw behind open receivers.
As it stands, we're out of the playoffs. 1 loss behind Calgary, who has a game in hand. 2 behind Toronto who has a game in hand & gets the playoff spot if we're tied in the standings. If we don't get off of the matt against BC, we're pretty much cooked.
Collaros looked to be in pain after that hit. The previous thorax problem might have caused that. I didn't think he had any concussion issue but he probably needed to come out as precaution.
Arguing about that doesn't go any where. They say you're out, then you're out. In that sense I have no issue with that result. He got checked, cleared and was back in shortly.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 28, 2024, 03:22:08 PMCollaros looked to be in pain after that hit. The previous thorax problem might have caused that. I didn't think he had any concussion issue but he probably needed to come out as precaution.
Arguing about that doesn't go any where. They say you're out, then you're out. In that sense I have no issue with that result. He got checked, cleared and was back in shortly.
I'm not saying I have an issue with not arguing, but last time he got pulled by the spotter he went ballistic. This time, I'm guessing, he knew it was the right move.
Quote from: TBURGESS on July 28, 2024, 03:25:12 PMI'm not saying I have an issue with not arguing, but last time he got pulled by the spotter he went ballistic. This time, I'm guessing, he knew it was the right move.
2nd time that's happened this season and he missed 1 game as a result. He's being beaten to a pulp.
In our last 5 losses we've been outscored by a combined 30 points. So close but so far. Every game has one disaster that seals our fate.
It's not that there has only been a single issue but a turnover or a big play given up on defence ect etc, all part of the problem.
And we have BC on a short week for us while they have the bye. It doesn't get any easier.
The game against BC is going to be ugly
Quote from: Pigskin on July 28, 2024, 03:09:17 PMI was surprised they didn't review the IC on Demski in the OT.
Guys, I know we don't want to sound like tinfoil wearing nut jobs, but there can be no doubt that we are being screwed over by this league for some reason. The nonsense in Regina followed by the crap in Toronto cannot be denied. Even Farhan Lalji came out with a statement today saying that Demski was clearly interfered with on the Argo pick-six play.
@FarhanLaljiTSN
#CFL officials do a far better job than they're given credit for. Command Center generally gets it right, both with review & eye in the sky, & the league is better for its use. But this is PI & should have been overturned IMHO.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GTjBw2YXgAEfRfv?format=jpg&name=small)
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 04:37:25 PMGuys, I know we don't want to sound like tinfoil wearing nut jobs, but there can be no doubt that we are being screwed over by this league for some reason. The nonsense in Regina followed by the crap in Toronto cannot be denied. Even Farhan Lalji came out with a statement today saying that Demski was clearly interfered with on the Argo pick-six play.
@FarhanLaljiTSN
#CFL officials do a far better job than they're given credit for. Command Center generally gets it right, both with review & eye in the sky, & the league is better for its use. But this is PI & should have been overturned IMHO.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GTjBw2YXgAEfRfv?format=jpg&name=small)
I don't believe that's the case even though it seems penalty calls are not going our way. It would involve multiple ref crews to all be in some sort of conspiracy plan.
We know the call on the field requires definitive proof and it's a close call it goes the way of call on the field.
A few have gone our way like the non call on Nichols on that long pass attempt. The challenge didn't overturn the call on the field.
Farhan goes on to say ...
Farhan Lalji
@FarhanLaljiTSN
His right arm is pulling Demski away from the ball and preventing him from getting there. This isn't incidental.
There's no debating the interference on Demski. Defenders right arm is clearly on Demski shoulder and twisted his body prior to the ball arriving, that is taking away Demski s opportunity to catch the football, and that by definition is interference. It's not even close. What's sad is after video replay CC doesn't have the stones to overturn the bad call.
I don't think there's a conspiracy to screw us over, it's just we re getting back to back to back bad calls that impact our games. It's frustrating when the refs can't get it right even with video review
Quote from: dd on July 28, 2024, 05:10:31 PMThere's no debating the interference on Demski. Defenders right arm is clearly on Demski shoulder and twisted his body prior to the ball arriving, that is taking away Demski s opportunity to catch the football, and that by definition is interference. It's not even close. What's sad is after video replay CC doesn't have the stones to overturn the bad call.
I don't think there's a conspiracy to screw us over, it's just we re getting back to back to back bad calls that impact our games. It's frustrating when the refs can't get it right even with video review
What's deafening to me, and most disconcerting as a Bomber fan and fan of the CFL, is the lack of comment by the league. Not even an apology for the phantom calls in Regina. Just silence. As if we're just supposed to accept it. As a fan, I cannot accept it. I see it as a severe problem that must be addressed for the sake of the league and all teams within it.
Ya, you'll never see the league apologize for the poor officiating, it just won't happen. They'll go about their business and meet post game and do their evaluation and try and eliminate the bad calls, but they'll never come out and apologize for the bad calls.
People make mistakes, they do every game, all the league can do is do their post game analysis, review the play with the official, what he saw/didn't see, and coach him up and hopefully get better results next time. The game happens so fast, I m sure everyone of the officials making the bad calls, could sit at home with their PVR's and get it right, but in the heat of the moment, its alot tougher than it looks.
The frustrating part is not the mistakes being made on the field, but why can't CC correct it as they have the benefit of video review.
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 05:31:54 PMWhat's deafening to me, and most disconcerting as a Bomber fan and fan of the CFL, is the lack of comment by the league. Not even an apology for the phantom calls in Regina. Just silence. As if we're just supposed to accept it. As a fan, I cannot accept it. I see it as a severe problem that must be addressed for the sake of the league and all teams within it.
Yeah,I hear you. The league does have a "contact us" link on their website.
You may not hear back from them but it does feel good to send them a blast.
https://www.cfl.ca/contact-us/
I dont think the league has been open and transparent with their officiating since Tom Higgins was in charge.
My main concern is the lack of consistency with the calls. Sure, dont call that PI last night but how the heck were the Bombers called interefence on those plays in Regina?
Quote from: Slingin Sammy on July 28, 2024, 12:10:47 PMOn the OLine we have the ratio room to insert our PR Olineman Vanterpool and Randolph...question is are they on the PR solely because of their passports, or are they not good enough to start?
Regarding ratio, if we're sticking with BA, Bryant, Jefferson, Lofton, and Nichols as starters, why aren't we taking advantage of the Nationalized American rule?
Nationalized American players are defined as having played with their current team for 3 years or at least 5 years in the League. One Nationalized American player may be listed as one of the eight National starters.
This would give us even more ratio flexibility. I know MOS has in the past expressed his distaste for the designated national rule when teams used it to get an imp to replace a national after one snap so they could play most of the game, but we've got so many imp vets that we're starting... (Designated Nationalized Americans can replace Cdn starters for up to 25 Snaps)
Why not give us more flexibility with the ratio by designating one of our imp starting vets as a Nationalized American so we can dress players who give us the best chance to win?
We don't need a NA. If we had an American better than a Nat starter, they'd be in there. We have a lot of legit good Nats. And by not using any NA, we get an extra draft pick. So why bother.
OTOH, Pinball is in such ratio problem that he had to release Sheed to bring another NAT onto his roster. I prefer not having to release your 2nd best receiver due to ratio.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 28, 2024, 01:40:01 PMMore ratio flexibility to do what? We're already starting 10 Canadians. Two DI's are on defence. 3 additional imports that aren't starting are on defence.
Case was the only back up receiver and he was in his 2nd game. At one point we had to put Streveler in as a receiver when Johnson was pulled after getting hit.
Nick and Noah Hallett, Bridges, Griffin and McGhee were all extra DB's so we had a lot of flexibility on that side of the ball.
3 Canadian back LB's + Ayers. Hubert, Thomas, Gauthier on defence as well.
Start Vanterpool and/or Randolph over one or two of our Cdn Olineman if they're better than what we've seen from Neufeld, Kolankowski or Dobson
Quote from: theaardvark on July 28, 2024, 05:46:46 PMWe don't need a NA. If we had an American better than a Nat starter, they'd be in there. We have a lot of legit good Nats. And by not using any NA, we get an extra draft pick. So why bother.
OTOH, Pinball is in such ratio problem that he had to release Sheed to bring another NAT onto his roster. I prefer not having to release your 2nd best receiver due to ratio.
That's not always the case in this league. If we designated Bryant as a NA we could start 4 imps on the Oline. Maybe Vanterpool and Randolph aren't better options than Neufeld, Dobson and/or Kolankowski...but I'm skeptical given MOS' roster mgmt this year
Quote from: Slingin Sammy on July 28, 2024, 06:04:42 PMThat's not always the case in this league. If we designated Bryant as a NA we could start 4 imps on the Oline. Maybe Vanterpool and Randolph aren't better options than Neufeld, Dobson and/or Kolankowski...but I'm skeptical given MOS' roster mgmt this year
We tried the IMPs on our PR inside in preseason. They were not impressive.
Are they better now? Who knows. But they are not guys we brought in to be OG's, and definitely they are not C. They were brought in to back up our OT's.
An OT is not the same as an OG, not even close. Watch how an OT starts a down. They are two point, and start by back kicking off the line. OG's are three point and move into the DL.
The idea of a 3, 4 or even 5 IMP Oline is a pipe dream. Even if we had the ratio to do it, getting 5 IMP Olinemen up to speed on the CFL would take years. One of the reasons why almost every team always tries for a 3 or 4 NAT Oline. And why Oline are such a big part of the draft.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 28, 2024, 06:11:06 PMWe tried the IMPs on our PR inside in preseason. They were not impressive.
Are they better now? Who knows. But they are not guys we brought in to be OG's, and definitely they are not C. They were brought in to back up our OT's.
An OT is not the same as an OG, not even close. Watch how an OT starts a down. They are two point, and start by back kicking off the line. OG's are three point and move into the DL.
The idea of a 3, 4 or even 5 IMP Oline is a pipe dream. Even if we had the ratio to do it, getting 5 IMP Olinemen up to speed on the CFL would take years. One of the reasons why almost every team always tries for a 3 or 4 NAT Oline. And why Oline are such a big part of the draft.
Vanterpool actually has lots of experience as a guard. I would find a way to get him on the roster.
I would also put Eli in at centre.
Quote from: gobombersgo on July 28, 2024, 06:22:34 PMVanterpool actually has lots of experience as a guard. I would find a way to get him on the roster.
I would also put Eli in at centre.
Eli went in for Nuefeld yesterday and it was the OLs worst game.
Quote from: Slingin Sammy on July 28, 2024, 05:57:56 PMStart Vanterpool and/or Randolph over one or two of our Cdn Olineman if they're better than what we've seen from Neufeld, Kolankowski or Dobson
We can do that without using that designation. It also limits the number of snaps for the import you designate that way.
The ultimate question is whether the import OL are better than the Canadians.
Quote from: Jesse on July 28, 2024, 06:39:21 PMEli went in for Nuefeld yesterday and it was the OLs worst game.
The oline was already bad before Eli went in. Eli also went in as guard thats why I said he should be centre.
Quote from: gobombersgo on July 28, 2024, 06:42:01 PMThe oline was already bad before Eli went in. Eli also went in as guard thats why I said he should be centre.
I just don't know if he's shown the coaches any reason to put him in. They would have to believe he'd play better than what they have.
Quote from: dd on July 28, 2024, 05:41:14 PMYa, you'll never see the league apologize for the poor officiating, it just won't happen. They'll go about their business and meet post game and do their evaluation and try and eliminate the bad calls, but they'll never come out and apologize for the bad calls.
People make mistakes, they do every game, all the league can do is do their post game analysis, review the play with the official, what he saw/didn't see, and coach him up and hopefully get better results next time. The game happens so fast, I m sure everyone of the officials making the bad calls, could sit at home with their PVR's and get it right, but in the heat of the moment, its alot tougher than it looks.
The frustrating part is not the mistakes being made on the field, but why can't CC correct it as they have the benefit of video review.
The league has apologized for this sort of thing in the past. That's why their silence now is deafening. I also cannot understand the silence from the Bomber management side. Where is Wade Miller?
Quote from: gobombersgo on July 28, 2024, 06:22:34 PMVanterpool actually has lots of experience as a guard. I would find a way to get him on the roster.
I would also put Eli in at centre.
Vanterpool has lots of experience in 3 down Oline play? A yard off the ball?
NCAA 4 down vs. CFL 3 down is not an easy migration. Not saying he can't play OG, just saying we have guys with a lot more experience on the roster. An American passport doesn't mean he's better.
Officiating has always been subjective to a substantial degree. What is baffling is that the Command Centre has time and a number of different angles to get it right and, too often this season, they have not been able to do so. My uneducated opinion is that officiating always has been a weak link in the game. I do believe they attempt to train their officials but the training and how they select these people, who I believe are part time, may be the real issues.
Quote from: ModAdmin on July 28, 2024, 07:26:16 PMOfficiating has always been subjective to a substantial degree. What is baffling is that the Command Centre has time and a number of different angles to get it right and, too often this season, they have not been able to do so. My uneducated opinion is that officiating always has been a weak link in the game. I do believe they attempt to train their officials but the training and how they select these people, who I believe are part time, may be the real issues.
My question is, and I have watched most every game this season, how many phantom calls/non-calls have you seen teams not named the Blue Bombers suffer? Is every team experiencing this?
What was the discussion between Biggie and MOS after we lost the OT coin flip? Seemed like a lot of pointing going on.
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 08:16:25 PMMy question is, and I have watched most every game this season, how many phantom calls/non-calls have you seen teams not named the Blue Bombers suffer? Is every team experiencing this?
I don't keep track of other teams issues with penalty calls other than to say they exist. I have less of an issue with field officials calling penalties in real time. It is the Command Centre who have the time and camera angles to get the calls correct and sometimes don't seem to get it right. The PI non-call and resulting McFadden interception in the TO game was a game changer.
Quote from: Waffler on July 28, 2024, 09:01:18 PMWhat was the discussion between Biggie and MOS after we lost the OT coin flip? Seemed like a lot of pointing going on.
I dunno but did you see Biggie get trucked by Carey? He absolutely blew him up. Biggie has never been the biggest LB but played bigger than his size. That is no longer the case.
This is what I refer to. I think he's telling Biggie he wanted the other end.
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 10:29:29 PMI dunno but did you see Biggie get trucked by Carey? He absolutely blew him up. Biggie has never been the biggest LB but played bigger than his size. That is no longer the case.
Ya, I saw that. Blown-the-frick-up!! And Carey isn't that big of a running back. God help him if Stanbeck lowers the boom on him.
That was Father Time telling Biggie- you can't do this stuff anymore. To Biggie's credit, he just got up and got after it the next play. Good on him.
I always said, if you haven't had the snot knocked out of you, you've been playing outside the fire. Biggie was in the dead middle of the fire!!
:D playing inside the fire? Never heard that before
Not sure why MOS and Buck dont see that there's a big problem in our OLine?
Quote from: M.O.A.B. on July 29, 2024, 01:07:44 AMNot sure why MOS and Buck dont see that there's a big problem in our OLine?
They see it. There's just not a lot of solutions on July 28.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 29, 2024, 01:08:24 AMThey see it. There's just not a lot of solutions on July 28.
That's fair. I wonder what is available, and I know you can't just bring in someone to an oline and fit in.
Having said that - we are playing more Canadians than we need to - there isn't an import olineman somehwere that could improve our team? Even if he isn't playing in the next couple weeks?
Quote from: Big Daddy on July 29, 2024, 01:14:22 AMThat's fair. I wonder what is available, and I know you can't just bring in someone to an oline and fit in.
Having said that - we are playing more Canadians than we need to - there isn't an import olineman somehwere that could improve our team? Even if he isn't playing in the next couple weeks?
I think we will see a couple OL arrive after NFL cuts for sure. We could easily go three imports with Neufeld on the bench. I'd go with Eli and centre.
This time next year we likely have a very different looking crew.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 29, 2024, 01:16:57 AMI think we will see a couple OL arrive after NFL cuts for sure. We could easily go three imports with Neufeld on the bench. I'd go with Eli and centre.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 29, 2024, 01:16:57 AMI think we will see a couple OL arrive after NFL cuts for sure. We could easily go three imports with Neufeld on the bench. I'd go with Eli and centre.
This time next year we likely have a very different looking crew.
[/b]This time next year we likely have a very different looking crew.
I suspect you are right.
Hopefully in time for a GC played in Winnipeg,
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 29, 2024, 01:16:57 AMI think we will see a couple OL arrive after NFL cuts for sure. We could easily go three imports with Neufeld on the bench. I'd go with Eli and centre.
This time next year we likely have a very different looking crew.
Why wait for NFL cuts. The problem of our OL is in the interior. Replace Kolo and Neuf with Eli and Wallace.
Quote from: M.O.A.B. on July 29, 2024, 01:43:18 AMWhy wait for NFL cuts. The problem of our OL is in the interior. Replace Kolo and Neuf with Eli and Wallace.
I'd like to see Eli in the middle but I doubt Wallace is ready.
Just got back from Toronto. Large group in our box at the Jays game today. Everyone talking about the CFL command center. Everyone agreed that the ND10 call should have been PI.
Quote from: Slingin Sammy on July 28, 2024, 12:10:47 PMWhy not give us more flexibility with the ratio by designating one of our imp starting vets as a Nationalized American so we can dress players who give us the best chance to win?
I'm nearly positive the "magic roster/chart" the team provides to the league every pre-game designates a FAKENAT (NA). I think it also designates the DNA/DNS. Most of the rule wording for these goofy things says "MUST", not "CAN". As per Junkie, the team/league do not have to share these state secrets with us plebes. Thus we are left guessing even who the DA/DIs are! :P :P :'(
My point being, we are probably designating all of these things; us "fans" are simply not worth informing.
Quote from: markf on July 28, 2024, 01:07:44 PMWhy is the o line decent at run blocking and terrible at pass protection?
Ironic, because to start the season we were terrible at run blocking and decent at pass pro! Did you see our run stats for the first 3-4 games?
It's like 1 steps forward, 2 steps back. Frustrating.
Quote from: bomb squad on July 28, 2024, 02:28:38 PMAnybody else surprised they didn't review Castillo's field goal in OT? It looked like it went right over the left upright. I believe in the NFL that's ruled as good. Anybody know if it's the same in the CFL? I can't find anything on it. At the very least, I thought they should have reviewed it.
Because CFL is too lame to have a high EZ-plane cam to be able to triangulate the moment the ball crosses the plane. And too lame to have top-of-post-aiming-up cams. Hey, it saves them $20!! That gets them more donuts at Tims dontchaknow.
My take on the comp-PVR is that it was oscillating between in/out and it may have just gone out at the worst moment. I have no problem with the call. If it had been lower, it likely hits the post -- whether it goes in or out is anyone's guess. Every player took their turn costing us the game...
Quote from: Pigskin on July 28, 2024, 03:09:17 PMI was surprised they didn't review the IC on Demski in the OT.
That IC was horrifically egregious, thanks for reminding me. Demski was mauled, 100% IC. Refs didn't care, though they are often against making calls like that at the end of a game because then it really does look like they are manipulating the game.
If Zach saw it, he should have chucked it at him to draw the DPI. Command would have to review that as a potential score in the last 3 mins. A missed bad IC mauling may have finally gotten command to be fair with us.
Quote from: TBURGESS on July 28, 2024, 03:18:33 PMThe refs called PI the same both ways. They allowed contact. Personally I thought the Pick 6 was PI & the deep ball at the end of the game was PI on us, but that's not how they were calling it.
The potential DPI on us wasn't because even though we held the arm down a bit, we let it go for the R to make a full play on the ball well before the ball got there. And while pushing the arm down we didn't impede the R in any way. If that armbar was still going on when the ball arrived you can bet it would have been DPI.
So it's not the moves that were happening, it's the timing of when they were done. Brilliant play by our D.
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 04:37:25 PMGuys, I know we don't want to sound like tinfoil wearing nut jobs, but there can be no doubt that we are being screwed over by this league for some reason. The nonsense in Regina followed by the crap in Toronto cannot be denied. Even Farhan Lalji came out with a statement today saying that Demski was clearly interfered with on the Argo pick-six play.
@FarhanLaljiTSN
#CFL officials do a far better job than they're given credit for. Command Center generally gets it right, both with review & eye in the sky, & the league is better for its use. But this is PI & should have been overturned IMHO.
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 05:04:31 PM@FarhanLaljiTSN
His right arm is pulling Demski away from the ball and preventing him from getting there. This isn't incidental.
Quote from: dd on July 28, 2024, 05:10:31 PMThere's no debating the interference on Demski. Defenders right arm is clearly on Demski shoulder and twisted his body prior to the ball arriving, that is taking away Demski s opportunity to catch the football, and that by definition is interference. It's not even close. What's sad is after video replay CC doesn't have the stones to overturn the bad call.
Yes. As per precedent, that we've seen so many times, if the R's body
twists away from the ball due to a tug from behind right when they are playing the ball, especially by a very-early-contact defender, that is DPI every time. If on-field refs miss it, command will correct on review.
I have yet to read something from anyone
other than command that thought that that
wasn't DPI. There are a lot of every-game-for-a-decade watchers of CFL on many forums. It's not just a peanut gallery. These people have a great feel for how penalties will be called and have a great hit rate on guessing how command will adjudicate a play. When
all of them say command got it wrong, command got it wrong. Farhan is the icing on the cake.
Quote from: dd on July 28, 2024, 05:41:14 PMYa, you'll never see the league apologize for the poor officiating, it just won't happen. They'll go about their business and meet post game and do their evaluation and try and eliminate the bad calls, but they'll never come out and apologize for the bad calls.
https://globalnews.ca/news/2243212/cfl-issues-statement-after-game-changing-call/
This is the one I always bring up. This is what was called for in the SSK faux-DPI game, IMHO.
Quote from: gobombersgo on July 28, 2024, 06:22:34 PMVanterpool actually has lots of experience as a guard. I would find a way to get him on the roster.
Was Bond put in mid-season or in FA? If mid-season then there's your proof it can be done. Bond came in and instantly made our OL go from hot crap (worse than our current one) to above league average. He was basically Stan-lite. Imagine if we had 2 Stan-Lites at guard right now??
We have the ratio to start 5 IMP OL. I'd start replacing the worst-scoring OL each week one by one until there are no NATs left. Sure, it's not a long-term option, but it will send a message to the decent NAT hoggies to stop sucking while they warm the bench. Maybe in the end we'll only need to really start 3 IMP OL.
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 07:00:41 PMThe league has apologized for this sort of thing in the past. That's why their silence now is deafening. I also cannot understand the silence from the Bomber management side. Where is Wade Miller?
Wade can say things behind closed doors, and maybe he is. But as MOS makes abundantly clear, they can't say anything to the media or they get a huge fine and then the refs/command will treat us
even worse.
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 08:16:25 PMMy question is, and I have watched most every game this season, how many phantom calls/non-calls have you seen teams not named the Blue Bombers suffer? Is every team experiencing this?
Over a season, most teams will get crap calls. This season, the worst calls have been the 1 (maybe 2) DPI on us vs SSK (no review), the Blind-Bradbury non-overturn DPI/INT on us in TOR, and the completely unfair shouldn't-be-reviewed SSK incomplete/fumble last week.
Other than that I've noted a bunch of chintzy/weak ones, but those are fairly normal for the CFL.
So the answer is: yes, WPG seems to be on the receiving end of more bad calls (3) than usual... so far... Have we irritated someone at command? Is the league keen to make sure WPG doesn't go to the cup for a 5th year, which would bore the heck out of every non-WPG fan?
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 10:29:29 PMI dunno but did you see Biggie get trucked by Carey? He absolutely blew him up. Biggie has never been the biggest LB but played bigger than his size. That is no longer the case.
Biggie got trucked, but look at the very next run play. Biggie braces and clobbers Carey right back. Defenders will plan for the different RBs in different ways. Carey is usually a speed/shifty guy who won't try to Strev-you. So not bracing so you can adjust is a good strategy against Carey. I bet that's Biggie's thinking.
But then he adjusted and absolutely hammered Carey next run. Go watch again! This was Biggies best game in a long time. If Biggies back that will make it even harder to run against our D.
Quote from: M.O.A.B. on July 29, 2024, 01:43:18 AMWhy wait for NFL cuts. The problem of our OL is in the interior. Replace Kolo and Neuf with Eli and Wallace.
Wallace not even close, and he's clearly not a "start in first year" find like Chungh, Couture, Desjar, Gray. I think he's more a dev-for-year-2 guy like Speller, Dobson.
Remember, Wallace was drafted only 17th. That's the 7th OL taken in 2024. How many of those other 6 are starting right now? Definitely not anywhere near 6!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 29, 2024, 07:29:32 AMWallace not even close, and he's clearly not a "start in first year" find like Chungh, Couture, Desjar, Gray. I think he's more a dev-for-year-2 guy like Speller, Dobson.
Remember, Wallace was drafted only 17th. That's the 7th OL taken in 2024. How many of those other 6 are starting right now? Definitely not anywhere near 6!
He's not starting because he is behind a veteran line of players. He is not starting because he is "not even close". He could potentially replace someone this year. He is a bulldozer when he gets in and you can't say he will be "dev-for-year-2 guy" nor can you definitively say he is not "anywhere near 6". Those are very subjective statements. In fact, you may see him start the next game in place of Neufeld.
Quote from: ModAdmin on July 29, 2024, 07:42:10 AMThose are very subjective statements. In fact, you may see him start the next game in place of Neufeld.
Yes, everything I say is subjective. But they are based on a multitude of factors, including the combine reports, TC reports, and what we've seen in jumbo.
The overarching theme pre-season was
Wallace is "slow". I'm not sure we can survive an addition to our OL of someone even slower than Lofton. His positives are he's enormous and heavy. Good luck trying to push him back to collapse the pocket.
In any case, my point about first year starter vs not is more a function of numbers. First year starters good enough to leapfrog the expected heir ("group 1") are
rare. The only ones that were huge gems in the past decade are Chungh, Couture, Desjar. Some are put into first year duty and do ok (Gray) but aren't really there yet (group 2). The rest go into our dev process and often (usually?) come out on the other end as legit starters in year 2 or 3 (group 3). Very few just fail out (Spooner) (group 4).
What I'm saying is Wallace is most likely in group 3 (dev guy, good for the future), and if we're lucky, group 2 (same but can start a few games in year 1 and no suck rocks). You're hinting he'll be the next Desjar. The odds of that are slim, especially given his draft placement and scouting reports.
Is Neufeld going to be out long term? Who knows. Is Wallace "the guy" instead of Eli if he is? Maybe, probably? 50/50 chance, that's for sure, because there is no one else other than Wallace/Eli. Will Wallace start and show so good he steals Neuf or Dobson's job? Unlikely... but if he does, I'll be the first to congratulate him and love that our OL might actually be improving.
Now, all that said, if Neuf is out, and our 2 FBs are on the 6GIR, then
we have no super-jumbo package, and are very limited on TE sets. Was it BinBC's idea to call up Seal Jackson? Ya, I'm looking long and hard at that idea!
Couple of plays I noticed Eli in for at right guard were not encouraging. Did not make me think he is better than the guy he replaced at all.
Not sure NFL cuts are the answer. They have O line shortages too.
Bighill... third down stop turnover on downs. He can still play.
Team has problems, but...
Giveaways and bad officiating cost the Bombers this game.
One of those will be fixed.
I think Cody Kase will be effective, as a receiver. Quick, reliable.
The lack of a competent right tackle is troubling.
But the mistakes being made by vets are just as troubling.
The ongoing struggles with the offense continue to baffle.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 29, 2024, 01:59:17 PMThe lack of a competent right tackle is troubling.
But the mistakes being made by vets are just as troubling.
The ongoing struggles with the offense continue to baffle.
makes you wonder about the quality of the coaching, mental focus and talent of these players. This isn't "rust", this isn't lack of time "gelling"...it's either just not good enough or not trying hard enough.
Quote from: The Zipp on July 29, 2024, 02:08:01 PMmakes you wonder about the quality of the coaching, mental focus and talent of these players. This isn't "rust", this isn't lack of time "gelling"...it's either just not good enough or not trying hard enough.
I think the effort is there. We have good coaches. I think we're mentally focused. There's a few things happening. Part of it is just bad luck and that shouldn't be totally overlooked. Part of it is regression at QB and along the offensive line.
However, it's probably a good reality check time. No one is the off-season was suggesting we should completely blow up our offensive line. No one was saying we need to be seriously evaluating the starting QB position.
Two months changes a lot. I'm glad it's a crashing to earth and not a slow fall. It makes everyone get honest, really fast. We have tremendously talented and successful coaches in place. It might be frustrating but our best and most logical option is to let them rebuild it. That will take time - one off-season minimum - but things change quickly in the CFL. What if we landed Rourke, for example?
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 29, 2024, 02:17:57 PMI think the effort is there. We have good coaches. I think we're mentally focused. There's a few things happening. Part of it is just bad luck and that shouldn't be totally overlooked. Part of it is regression at QB and along the offensive line.
However, it's probably a good reality check time. No one is the off-season was suggesting we should completely blow up our offensive line. No one was saying we need to be seriously evaluating the starting QB position.
Two months changes a lot. I'm glad it's a crashing to earth and not a slow fall. It makes everyone get honest, really fast. We have tremendously talented and successful coaches in place. It might be frustrating but our best and most logical option is to let them rebuild it. That will take time - one off-season minimum - but things change quickly in the CFL. What if we landed Rourke, for example?
The Bombers should be in on the Rourke sweepstakes. Considering Colleros' age the Bombers need to begin looking for the next QB of the future
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 29, 2024, 07:17:10 AMWade can say things behind closed doors, and maybe he is. But as MOS makes abundantly clear, they can't say anything to the media or they get a huge fine and then the refs/command will treat us even worse.
What's worse than phantom calls against and egregiously missed called for? I can't even imagine. It has cost us two very necessary and winnable games.
Quote from: The Zipp on July 29, 2024, 02:08:01 PMmakes you wonder about the quality of the coaching, mental focus and talent of these players. This isn't "rust", this isn't lack of time "gelling"...it's either just not good enough or not trying hard enough.
I would add not trying "SMART ENOUGH" too! Many brain cramps all season both with players and coaches. The blame goes all around this team. Even GM as Grant could have won us another game or two. Still I keep waiting for him to hit the 6 game IR this season with the Argos unless he somehow avoids his injury bug rep.
Now is NOT the time to ***** foot around. CHANGES ARE REQUIRED NOW for offense and immediately. Zach had probably his best game passing and all tossed down the tubes with bonehead fumbles and some "at best" questionable if not horrible play calling. Two steps forward and two steps back always this year with this team. Saying it's just bad luck or unfortunate is B.S. if it's occurring way too often.
"Kindly" Cal Murphy would be ripping this team apart if this occurred under his reign. Cal and Paul Robson knew how to pull the trigger...BROCK for CLEMENTS was a master stroke. Dieter (don't call me Ralph) had a good end of CFL career with the Cats too. Sometimes a change of scenery helps both players in a trade. Maybe Cats and Bombers can do another blockbuster trade once more. Collaros for BO LEVI who seems to have a pulse again finally this year! ;) Still with our o-line Bo would be clobbered too. Need some better beef up-front as o-lines are your bread and butter of almost any football offense. You got a bad one, you are running for your life in a passing league like the cfl. Less time to throw, less time to look downfield....it just compounds itself. Hell call up Chris Walby if needed!! ;) :D
Quote from: ichabod_crane on July 29, 2024, 11:24:51 PMI would add not trying "SMART ENOUGH" too! Many brain cramps all season both with players and coaches. The blame goes all around this team. Even GM as Grant could have won us another game or two. Still I keep waiting for him to hit the 6 game IR this season with the Argos unless he somehow avoids his injury bug rep.
Now is NOT the time to ***** foot around. CHANGES ARE REQUIRED NOW for offense and immediately. Zach had probably his best game passing and all tossed down the tubes with bonehead fumbles and some "at best" questionable if not horrible play calling. Two steps forward and two steps back always this year with this team. Saying it's just bad luck or unfortunate is B.S. if it's occurring way too often.
"Kindly" Cal Murphy would be ripping this team apart if this occurred under his reign. Cal and Paul Robson knew how to pull the trigger...BROCK for CLEMENTS was a master stroke. Dieter (don't call me Ralph) had a good end of CFL career with the Cats too. Sometimes a change of scenery helps both players in a trade. Maybe Cats and Bombers can do another blockbuster trade once more. Collaros for BO LEVI who seems to have a pulse again finally this year! ;) Still with our o-line Bo would be clobbered too. Need some better beef up-front as o-lines are your bread and butter of almost any football offense. You got a bad one, you are running for your life in a passing league like the cfl. Less time to throw, less time to look downfield....it just compounds itself. Hell call up Chris Walby if needed!! ;) :D
I think you are wrong about Collaros. The primary problem, aside from all the injuries, is the performance by the Oline. That situation requires a serious upgrade and if accomplished, will make Zach the MOP-type player he has been. I'm not sure those kind of upgrades can happen in the middle of a season though.
1Q5:23 Zach's first TD pass attempt, the failed Woli EZ corner fade, Pokey was single-covered with the D letting him fade while eyeing the QB, which is a sure TD if Zach does the exact same throw (Woli) to the other (Pokey) side.
Zach didn't even look Pokey's way and opted for the double-covered Woli. If he had stared down Woli (which he did), then eyeball and spot Pokey out the corner of his eye, turn his head last second and toss to the corner, a sure TD.
This failure is on Zach, as Buck gave him 2 options and he chose wrongly. Shades of the '23 GC...
Neufeld's injury is 3Q7:06
He gets beat badly to the outside (his 5th bad mistake, making him by far the worst OL of the game to this point). He's in full on holding/chase-mode, and right at the end when he lets go he comes up hobbling/limping.
My only guess is there was one stride where he locked/hyper-extended his left knee a bit? I don't see any sign of achilles or ACL tear. He doesn't take a knee nor go down.
But he never returns to the game. That was the end of that drive and the next one it's Eli in his place.
Because he was stinking so bad, maybe something was tender to start this game (or in the 2nd when his play got really bad), and the extension moved it into "can't play" territory. Some minor knee issue? Who knows when he'll suit back up or not, but my guess is "soon".
OL Grading WPG@TOR. Neufeld had maybe his worst night ever. Eli continued getting burned at RG. Either our 2 guys sucked, or that right DT was a beast, or both.
Mistakes:
1Q: Basically perfect, pass & run. Lots of jumbo, a few super-jumbo.
2Q:
Neuf 3 (result: Zach hits (ZH)), 1 pressure
Eli 1 (ZH)
Dob 1 (pressure)
3Q:
Eli 2 (ZH)
Neuf 1 (ZH)
Stan facemask
4Q/OT: Basically perfect
Other Notes:
3Q2:14 Eli's first play he gets tossed down like a rag doll by DT, like he weighs 90 lbs.
Final Strev sneak was Wallace's fault: goes way too far, too fast and loses the seal on the guy that meets and downs Strev.
OT, our 2nd down: The 2 TOR DEs go offside pre-snap. The DE on our left side waaaay offside: probably 1/3 to 1/2 into the neutral zone.
Uncalled. Note: we also have 1-2 OL getting up slightly pre-snap, but I checked and the O/S occurs before the get-ups. That far ref is staring straight at it and he says nothing.
You can see the off-sidedness if you hold a ruler from the sideline mark to the hashmark at the bottom of the picture, and compare to the DTs. Also, you can't see it here but those DEs were sneaking up pre-snap and the top offside guy knew he jumped it and takes a step back right as we snap.
Should have been 2nd & 3 for a near-sure-thing conversion with 2 downs left. Yet another bad ref mistake against us...
(https://fsi.ca/tec/offside0.jpg)
(right-click and save or view-in-other-tab to see bigger image)
If Pokey comes back to the ball on that final 2nd down OT pass, we easily convert. He is single-covered. He sits (turns & stops) in what he thinks is the zone hole. Defender recovers and steps in front for easy bat down.
Rookie mistake. More experienced receivers would come back. He was 10Y past the 1st down marker!! He had plenty of space to step back, even 3Y would have been enough. Zach threw it a bit low knowing he should/could come back to it.
Man, we're missing our vet receivers. In this game we were down to just one.
Wow... refs missed yet another one. On the game-winning Lirim FG in OT, the left-most outside TOR blocker blocks our kick-rusher below the waist.
This was made illegal in 2024 under:
Rule 4 - Scrimmage
Section 3 - Interference
Article 4 - Illegal Block
It shall be illegal for a Team A player to block an opponent below the waist.
Except when the block occurs between the tight ends or tight end position *1 [...]
For this block to be legal, the Team A player initiating the block below the waist must be positioned in this area as an offensive line player (tight end included) or running back at the snap. *2
Exception: A Team A backfield player (regardless of position at the snap) may cross the offensive formation and block a defensive player who is lined up across from, or outside the offensive tackle at the snap, provided the block occurs in the legal low block zone described above. *3
The offending player was not a OL or TE or RB (violating *2), was lined up 2 players outside the TE (violating *1), and he wasn't in motion (violating *3).
That would be a 10Y penalty, and Lirim kicks from the 45 instead of the 35. Lirim is not automatic from 45. We could have gone into 2nd OT.
If you watch the play the defender wants to take the inside first and sees our guy is going extra wide and panics and hits the dirt to cut him down. Completely illegal. I can't believe this slipped by Mr. Rules Committee MOS -- he could have chirped and make them rekick. Not like it's his job, though, to know the rules better than the refs (or command who can review such things in OT).
(https://fsi.ca/tec/lowblock0.jpg)
You're grasping at serious straws. One, I have never seen an illegal block called like that at the line of scrimmage on a field goal. Not this year. Not ever. Two, even if your interpretation is correct (and I don't think it is) who cares what the rule says, that's a normal football play. Three, it seems ridiculous to comb through footage and try and find "errors" when these are the same refs as last year and the three before that.
We're not getting calls and we're losing football games because we aren't a very good team this year. That's the reality. Another reality: it's not going to magically fix itself this year. We can get incrementally better, and we probably will, but no one is coming to save us this year. That's the way the cookie crumbles in sports.
I watched the highlights of Toronto game on YouTube. Can't find them on the tsn mess.
First half the o line was decent, zach had time to throw, moved the ball, but could not score touchdowns. Let Argos hang around.
When blitz is clearly coming, (second half) bombers O did not seem to realize it and dump it off. Zach dropped back. Looking downfield.
Their quick play across the middle is to Brady. Did not seem effective. Maybe the wrong guy. He is not fast enough to make that a bigger gain. Use somebody quick there. Play seemed to be open.maybe not Demski right now.
When Argos started blitzing, game was over. Between Zach and buck, that is a bit surprising.
bombers 9 Garbutt was held a lot. He is really good.
Bombers 65 did not look effective, D guys just ran right by him on a few plays.
I think bombers can beat b.c. But not if they can not counter the blitz.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 30, 2024, 09:08:32 AM1Q5:23 Zach's first TD pass attempt, the failed Woli EZ corner fade, Pokey was single-covered with the D letting him fade while eyeing the QB, which is a sure TD if Zach does the exact same throw (Woli) to the other (Pokey) side.
Zach didn't even look Pokey's way and opted for the double-covered Woli. If he had stared down Woli (which he did), then eyeball and spot Pokey out the corner of his eye, turn his head last second and toss to the corner, a sure TD.
This failure is on Zach, as Buck gave him 2 options and he chose wrongly. Shades of the '23 GC...
That type of play is slow developing. Could it be because he knows he doesn't have time to look for option 2?
Quote from: ModAdmin on July 30, 2024, 06:34:58 AMI think you are wrong about Collaros. The primary problem, aside from all the injuries, is the performance by the Oline. That situation requires a serious upgrade and if accomplished, will make Zach the MOP-type player he has been. I'm not sure those kind of upgrades can happen in the middle of a season though.
https://3downnation.com/2024/07/30/yards-without-points-winnipeg-blue-bombers-can-move-football-but-cant-score-touchdowns/
Interesting article
Quote from: bunker on July 30, 2024, 10:35:16 PMhttps://3downnation.com/2024/07/30/yards-without-points-winnipeg-blue-bombers-can-move-football-but-cant-score-touchdowns/
Interesting article
Thanks, he makes sense to me.
Quote from: bunker on July 30, 2024, 10:35:16 PMhttps://3downnation.com/2024/07/30/yards-without-points-winnipeg-blue-bombers-can-move-football-but-cant-score-touchdowns/
Interesting article
Hustler brought this up on Winnipeg Sports Talk today. He's going to be talking to the author tomorrow about it.
Nothing surprising when you read it, but ties everything together pretty nicely. Need to fix that OL somehow. Especially prior to next season.
The OLine is a big issue right now, but Buck has to run more play action and more creative running plays into the mix. Our offence is so predictable often the dline is able to anticipate the play and fill the gaps creating pressure, especially down the middle.
Often the linebackers key on demski and Olivera . If Demski is on the line they just rush the middle. Even a fake handoff to Olivera will give Zac a few seconds.
Quote from: Pete on July 31, 2024, 02:05:55 AMThe OLine is a big issue right now, but Buck has to run more play action and more creative running plays into the mix. Our offence is so predictable often the dline is able to anticipate the play and fill the gaps creating pressure, especially down the middle.
Often the linebackers key on demski and Olivera . If Demski is on the line they just rush the middle. Even a fake handoff to Olivera will give Zac a few seconds.
I haven't read the entire game day thread and won't, but was it ever determined why Buck was working the sideline and not up in the box?
Quote from: bunker on July 30, 2024, 10:35:16 PMhttps://3downnation.com/2024/07/30/yards-without-points-winnipeg-blue-bombers-can-move-football-but-cant-score-touchdowns/
Interesting article
This sounds similar to some of the work I do relating to QB drives.
In July, Zach Collaros was tied for 4th in the CFL (with Mitchell) by advancing the ball 28.0 yards per drive. Collaros ranked 9th in points per drive (1.39) while Bo Levi Mitchell was 2nd in points per drive (2.30)
When it comes to leading TD drives, Collaros is once again well down the list with a TD on 9.8% of drives. Bo Levi Mitchell led the league in July with a TD on 25.0% of his drives.
The big concern is that the Blue Bombers turned the ball over on almost 25% of Collaros' drives in July.
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ebdp3sf6e2e5bhnww0ub2/2024-QB-DC-July.jpg?rlkey=ey3dgpq41wc69dtrzgl6f5aa9&st=e1rqns9x&raw=1)
For reference:
Since 2004 - the average CFL drive is 25.0 yards (30.0 or higher is elite level)
Since 2004 - the CFL average is 1.57 points per drive (2.00 or higher is elite level)
Since 2004 - a TD is scored on 15.6% of all drives (20% or better is elite)
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 30, 2024, 01:48:40 PMYou're grasping at serious straws.
[...]
it seems ridiculous to comb through footage and try and find "errors" when these are the same refs as last year and the three before that.
No, I was
simply rewatching like normal and noticed a blocker cutting down our kick-rusher's legs. And my brain automatically went "isn't that illegal"? And shared it with the forum after looking it up, because it is illegal, and would have put the kick 10Y back past the 40 and possibly led to a miss. IF MOS, the blocked player, or any WFC guy in any booth had noticed!
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 30, 2024, 01:48:40 PMOne, I have never seen an illegal block called like that at the line of scrimmage on a field goal. Not this year. Not ever.
You didn't read my whole post. It's a
brand new rule this season! The reason you've never seen it is because this is probably the first time this season some doorknob way outside the box (TEs) has tried to destroy a rusher's shins/knees!
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 30, 2024, 01:48:40 PMTwo, even if your interpretation is correct (and I don't think it is) who cares what the rule says, that's a normal football play.
Then tell MOS and the rule-makers of the CFL to
stop adding these player safety rules. It's either a foul or not. If it's a foul by rule, get our 10Y and maybe win the game.
Hey, I agree with you that all these tacked-on player safety rules are a bit lame, but the CFL has been heading this way for a decade now, so are we surprised?
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 30, 2024, 01:48:40 PMWe're not getting calls and we're losing football games because we aren't a very good team this year. That's the reality
I can agree with that, if you append a suffix of "yet".
Quote from: markf on July 30, 2024, 07:17:12 PMWhen blitz is clearly coming, (second half) bombers O did not seem to realize it and dump it off. Zach dropped back. Looking downfield.
When Argos started blitzing, game was over. Between Zach and buck, that is a bit surprising.
It was worse than that! Many of those Neuf/Eli busts (which were the worst aspect of the OL that game) were against the normal 4-man DL rush! Holy smokes it was bad. And doubly worse, they were almost never stunting on those. It was just straight swim moves or jukes and vwoom, right past Neuf/Eli.
Triply worse, most OL mistakes caused a Zach hit. Just one was a mere pressures and a throwaway or early/errant pass. Most were actual wham-bam-Zach's-counting-lambs.
Quote from: J5V on July 30, 2024, 10:34:03 PMThat type of play is slow developing. Could it be because he knows he doesn't have time to look for option 2?
Ya, but the way it transpired (and probably set up), both Pokey and Woli would be reaching their respective corners at nearly the same time.
Zach was staring down the middle and right routes hard (a flaw of his). He needs to at least give a peripheral glance to the other reads! We've seen this a few times this season where other guys were the easier/open pass, but they don't even get seen because Zach is locked in on the double/triple-covered #1 read.
Just think how Zach could torch FSs for a game by just staring down the decoy read then snapping the pass off to the real target. FSs have learned to ignore the other reads and just cheat to the side Zach is looking. That's why whenever we get near the EZ we have 2 or 3 defenders around our pass target.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 31, 2024, 09:50:33 AMYou didn't read my whole post. It's a brand new rule this season! The reason you've never seen it is because this is probably the first time this season some doorknob way outside the box (TEs) has tried to destroy a rusher's shins/knees!
I read your whole post. That's why I said I haven't seen it called this year or any year. Since it's brand new, how do you know your interpretation is correct? Even from the screenshot it looks like the block is basically happening along the LOS near where the tight end would have been. I highly, highly doubt the rules committee was trying to get this play out of the game. There is nothing wrong with it.
Quote from: Stats Junkie on July 31, 2024, 05:54:11 AMThis sounds similar to some of the work I do relating to QB drives.
In July, Zach Collaros was tied for 4th in the CFL (with Mitchell) by advancing the ball 28.0 yards per drive. Collaros ranked 9th in points per drive (1.39) while Bo Levi Mitchell was 2nd in points per drive (2.30)
When it comes to leading TD drives, Collaros is once again well down the list with a TD on 9.8% of drives. Bo Levi Mitchell led the league in July with a TD on 25.0% of his drives.
The big concern is that the Blue Bombers turned the ball over on almost 25% of Collaros' drives in July.
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ebdp3sf6e2e5bhnww0ub2/2024-QB-DC-July.jpg?rlkey=ey3dgpq41wc69dtrzgl6f5aa9&st=e1rqns9x&raw=1)
For reference:
Since 2004 - the average CFL drive is 25.0 yards (30.0 or higher is elite level)
Since 2004 - the CFL average is 1.57 points per drive (2.00 or higher is elite level)
Since 2004 - a TD is scored on 15.6% of all drives (20% or better is elite)
It really does seem similar! Zach is right up there with yards per drive. But the points are way down.
I've oft heard commentators, especially ex Olinemen, say that if they called holding by the book, there'd be a flag on almost every play.
Not sure how they adjudicate what to call or when, but it seems that the self same issue is coming up with PI and RTP. Seems to be a subjective component which does not seem to favour our team in the least.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 31, 2024, 09:54:05 AMIt was worse than that! Many of those Neuf/Eli busts (which were the worst aspect of the OL that game) were against the normal 4-man DL rush! Holy smokes it was bad. And doubly worse, they were almost never stunting on those. It was just straight swim moves or jukes and vwoom, right past Neuf/Eli.
Triply worse, most OL mistakes caused a Zach hit. Just one was a mere pressures and a throwaway or early/errant pass. Most were actual wham-bam-Zach's-counting-lambs.
Yes. Almost like the blitzing got it started, then wasn't needed after that.
It's odd that zach had time first half,,then didn't second half.
argos changed something, Bombers did not adjust.
Quote from: markf on July 31, 2024, 06:27:06 PMYes. Almost like the blitzing got it started, then wasn't needed after that.
It's odd that zach had time first half,,then didn't second half.
argos changed something, Bombers did not adjust.
They were already getting through to Zach in Q2. Q2 and Q3 were awful for OL, Q1 and Q4 were near spotless. TOR adjusted quickly after no pressure in Q1, and we couldn't counter the pressure until Q4. They were faster at adjusting than we were, which doesn't surprise me.
However, we did adjust in Q4, so Buck et al get credit for that.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 31, 2024, 03:32:59 PMNot sure how they adjudicate what to call or when, but it seems that the self same issue is coming up with PI and RTP. Seems to be a subjective component which does not seem to favour our team in the least.
Yes and yes. However, holding calls haven't been egregiously bad and changing game outcomes like DPI have been this season. And usually with holds it's not the called ones that are bad/wrong (like you said, every snap has a hold), it's the egregious ones they let slide and the opponent QB gets a 50Y TD on you: those are the ones that sting.
We must be careful we don't give the refs any ideas to make our games worse!
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 31, 2024, 01:30:43 PMEven from the screenshot it looks like the block is basically happening along the LOS near where the tight end would have been. I highly, highly doubt the rules committee was trying to get this play out of the game. There is nothing wrong with it.
To me the "TE position" isn't the "last guy on the line", it's the (optional) 3rd guy out from the C on either side who is tight to the box (not wide out). This is my interpretation, and I'm open to correction here. The rule book is completely silent on what a TE or "TE position" is(!), even though they use those words in this new rule.
You're saying that TE is "last guy on the line". If you are correct, then the play in question is not a penalty. And if you're right, given a FG line formation usually is 5-LS-4 (sides can be swapped), does that mean the 5 side alone has 2 "TEs"? That's not how I understand it.
However, I'm pretty sure the spirit of the rule is to define what the "box" is and change what is legal in and outside of that box. There are other rules that reference the idea of this "box" (though the term isn't used as such).
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 01, 2024, 06:41:20 AMWe must be careful we don't give the refs any ideas to make our games worse!
football is a game played with emotion and on the edge. The best officials in any league find and establish the balance and then let the teams play. We're not seeing that at all and I'm not sure how to do what you propose. If you're consistently finding yourself on the wrong end of the officiating scale you're kinda hooped.
Quote from: J5V on July 28, 2024, 01:47:16 AMCarey wasn't even down yet and the clock had already stopped. Techno?
OLD THREAD DO NOT USE FOR THIS WEEK'S GAMES!
I just wanted to answer J5V here, it was on my todo list and I hadn't gotten around to it yet. I always answer requests! (Just a little late on this missed one)
I re-checked this last regulation TOR drive and the clock timer was pretty good. He/she may have been jumping the whistle by a few tenths of a second when it was clear the player was down (both Carey(twice) and Arbuckle)... they aren't supposed to do that, but the timers are (generally) homers so this stuff happens.
Either that or they are the fastest "gun" in the
West East and can press that button when they hear the whistle with 0.0 seconds latency!
Verdict: pretty standard in the CFL; my gut says timer was following the action on-field rather than the whistle; worst one was Carey's first run, but all were off by under a second. So I wouldn't get too worked up about this one. (They were also very fast starting the clock too... maybe too much coffee?)
(What a crap last 2 mins and O/T in this loss that should have been a win... now I'm bummed out about it again!)
Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 19, 2024, 07:18:05 AM(What a crap last 2 mins and O/T in this loss that should have been a win... now I'm bummed out about it again!)
Sorry about that, LOL, and thanks for following through. The timers are definitely homers. The officials are always telling the timers to put time back on the clock after the coach's complain. It happens almost every game.