Here is all you need to know about the broadcasts of the 2024 CFL Draft. Use this thread for Draft discussions as well...
Where to Watch: 2024 CFL Draft broadcast info
TORONTO — The 2024 Canadian Football League Draft is set to kick off on April 30 and CFL.ca and TSN will have sideline-to-sideline coverage of the selection process.
The first two rounds, including commentary and in-depth analysis, will be broadcast beginning at 8:00 p.m. ET on TSN, rds.ca and the RDS app. Exclusive coverage of Rounds 3-8 can be seen live on tsn.ca and on the TSN app.
TSN's Farhan Lalji hosts the network's live draft coverage, joined by the CFL ON TSN roster, including analysts Duane Forde, Marshall Ferguson, and Jim Barker. The panel will break down each draft selection and deliver player profiles and interviews with key newsmakers from around the league.
https://www.cfl.ca/2024/04/22/where-to-watch-2024-cfl-draft-broadcast-info/?lid=b2ectjs4j99v&utm_cta=feature-title&utm_source=braze&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Field+Pass+Newsletter+-+April+24+2024+-+Draft+Promo&utm_brazeid=64d2d75607cbf60001365778&utm_content=&tf_u%5Bcfl_braze_id%5D=64d2d75607cbf60001365778&utm_instance=cfl
Got the PVR all set. I've watched a couple of the recent ones and found it worthwhile to see the synopsis for the top draftees and get a glimpse at these kids, some of whom will soon be CFL stars.
If you're short on time, just watch the first nine selections...
Waiting to see how many of the top 20 draft choices get selected by the NFL. I see Adams was drafted in the 3rd round with the 71st pick. That's a very strong indication he'll stick.
Should hear more just before our draft day about others that get drafted or signed as free agents.
Quote from: Blue In BC on April 27, 2024, 01:05:44 PMWaiting to see how many of the top 20 draft choices get selected by the NFL. I see Adams was drafted in the 3rd round with the 71st pick. That's a very strong indication he'll stick.
Should hear more just before our draft day about others that get drafted or signed as free agents.
Blue, thinking that with this top 20 group, we will never see four (4) of them in the CFL.
Two (2) will be gone for upwards of 2 - 3 years living their dream and another three (3) will have a look/see for the next year until they return.
Just my thoughts.
Quote from: dizzycamper on April 27, 2024, 05:32:57 PMBlue, thinking that with this top 20 group, we will never see four (4) of them in the CFL.
Two (2) will be gone for upwards of 2 - 3 years living their dream and another three (3) will have a look/see for the next year until they return.
Just my thoughts.
Sounds about right. I see Manu from UBC just got drafted. Johnson as well. That's CFL draft ranking 1, 2 and 8 gone to NFL already.
Call me ignorant on the subject... but can a NAT player be in both the CFL and NFL draft at the same time? And they can get selected in both?
And which happens first? NFL? So if NATs can be NFL drafted, and they are selected first, why would a CFL team select the same player?
I can understand a CFL team selecting a maybe-will-be-picked-up-by-NFL-team player, but why select a was-definitely-selected-by-a-NFL-team player?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on April 27, 2024, 07:45:24 PMCall me ignorant on the subject... but can a NAT player be in both the CFL and NFL draft at the same time? And they can get selected in both?
And which happens first? NFL? So if NATs can be NFL drafted, and they are selected first, why would a CFL team select the same player?
I can understand a CFL team selecting a maybe-will-be-picked-up-by-NFL-team player, but why select a was-definitely-selected-by-a-NFL-team player?
TG, if you break down my comment that I provided to Blue, you have your answer. They are all available to both drafts.
The four (4)mentioned that are drafted or will be drafted, probably will not be in the CFL. CFL teams may use a very, very late draft choice on them, like Manu as an example. I believe these guys have a place to hang their hats, moving forward. Although, the later the picks in the NFL, the greater the chance of them returning to the CFL as well.
Now, the others that have been mentioned: two (2) & three (3) groupings, CFL teams will take chances on them at some stage of the CFL draft on the 30th of April.
It all comes down to how much a need, fit and draft capital (timing within the draft) CFL teams want to spend and how soon the prospect will be back in Canada.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on April 27, 2024, 07:45:24 PMCall me ignorant on the subject... but can a NAT player be in both the CFL and NFL draft at the same time? And they can get selected in both?
And which happens first? NFL? So if NATs can be NFL drafted, and they are selected first, why would a CFL team select the same player?
I can understand a CFL team selecting a maybe-will-be-picked-up-by-NFL-team player, but why select a was-definitely-selected-by-a-NFL-team player?
NFL draft is completing today, rounds 4 - 7. CFL draft is next week.
Dankwah, Benedet, Hergel and Chris-Ike sign un-drafted free agent NFL contracts. Argos DB Stiggers was actually drafted at 176 IIRC.
So 6 of the top 10 projected Canadian players will be NFL bound. Some for quite awhile and others that may be available after NFL TC?
Thanks dizzy & BC, that helps explain a lot.
We were talking about gambling... sure sounds like GMs do a lot of gambling if they pick NFL-bound DPs! Betting that they aren't good enough to stick down south, but good enough to stick up north. Talk about a difficult job!!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on April 28, 2024, 01:01:03 AMThanks dizzy & BC, that helps explain a lot.
We were talking about gambling... sure sounds like GMs do a lot of gambling if they pick NFL-bound DPs! Betting that they aren't good enough to stick down south, but good enough to stick up north. Talk about a difficult job!!
Several Canadians that weren't drafted but picked up post draft as free agents. There is still a decent chance those guys might make PR rosters. That's still possibly 1 injury from moving to the AR. We know NFL PR money is pretty good to sit and wait for that chance.
Really hard to tell without a deep dive into which team picked the un-drafted players to evaluate their depth charts.
OTOH, several top Canadians were drafted very high and that is as good as gold in making a roster.
Quote from: Blue In BC on April 27, 2024, 08:46:01 PMNFL draft is completing today, rounds 4 - 7. CFL draft is next week.
Dankwah, Benedet, Hergel and Chris-Ike sign un-drafted free agent NFL contracts. Argos DB Stiggers was actually drafted at 176 IIRC.
So 6 of the top 10 projected Canadian players will be NFL bound. Some for quite awhile and others that may be available after NFL TC?
Blue, my understanding is that Chris-Ike is a N. Y. Jets mini camp invitee, the other three (3) are rookie undrafted free agents that have accepted a contract and will begin chasing after their NFL dream. Have I got it wrong, with Chris-Ike?
Mini camp guys I see the CFL teams drafting, the undrafted free agents will be drafted, but the question remains, when will they come back to Canada.
Quote from: dizzycamper on April 28, 2024, 02:05:12 PMBlue, my understanding is that Chris-Ike is a N. Y. Jets mini camp invitee, the other three (3) are rookie undrafted free agents that have accepted a contract and will begin chasing after their NFL dream. Have I got it wrong, with Chris-Ike?
Mini camp guys I see the CFL teams drafting, the undrafted free agents will be drafted, but the question remains, when will they come back to Canada.
I think you are correct. Either way it adds some risk to a CFL team drafting a given player in early rounds I suppose.
Wouldn't think he'd be a Bomber choice in this year's draft unless they take a flyer with one of the much later rounds. 10 picks is a lot to accommodate.
Overall, I total 10 players in the top 20 either drafted or invited to mini camps by the NFL.
I wonder if we'll see any new mock drafts with the new information? It does appear we'll have a chance to select on OL with our 1st pick if the other teams draft according to rankings. Obviously that doesn't always happen but it does cause a re-thinking by each team with so many off the board so to speak.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on April 27, 2024, 07:45:24 PMCall me ignorant on the subject... but can a NAT player be in both the CFL and NFL draft at the same time? And they can get selected in both?
And which happens first? NFL? So if NATs can be NFL drafted, and they are selected first, why would a CFL team select the same player?
I can understand a CFL team selecting a maybe-will-be-picked-up-by-NFL-team player, but why select a was-definitely-selected-by-a-NFL-team player?
The CFL draft happens after the NFL draft for a reason. It shows whether a player is immediately available, somewhat available, or not available until later in his career. Which greatly affects when he will be selected by a CFL team
For a local boy that has expressed some CFL interest but gets drafted at all in the NFL draft, the local team might want to take a flyer on him coming home ahead of a team that the player may have less interest in playing for. Especially is you have a lot of DP's. Drafting a guy in the third round who will be dominant *if* he comes to the CFL, but only has a 25% chance of ever coming is worth that pick to his local club, in mu opinion.
Even if a player is drafted in the NFL, and falls though the CFL draft unpicked, I believe a team can neg list them, no?
Likewise, if a player falls through the NFL draft, there are still a lot of options, many get signed as undrafted players.
Geoff Gray was drafted by us in the first round, even though he was already signed as an undrafted FA by Green Bay 2 days earlier...
Getting drafted of signed by an NFL team does affect draft order, for some teams more than others.
Quote from: theaardvark on April 28, 2024, 05:02:26 PMThe CFL draft happens after the NFL draft for a reason. It shows whether a player is immediately available, somewhat available, or not available until later in his career. Which greatly affects when he will be selected by a CFL team
For a local boy that has expressed some CFL interest but gets drafted at all in the NFL draft, the local team might want to take a flyer on him coming home ahead of a team that the player may have less interest in playing for. Especially is you have a lot of DP's. Drafting a guy in the third round who will be dominant *if* he comes to the CFL, but only has a 25% chance of ever coming is worth that pick to his local club, in mu opinion.
Even if a player is drafted in the NFL, and falls though the CFL draft unpicked, I believe a team can neg list them, no?
Likewise, if a player falls through the NFL draft, there are still a lot of options, many get signed as undrafted players.
Geoff Gray was drafted by us in the first round, even though he was already signed as an undrafted FA by Green Bay 2 days earlier...
Getting drafted of signed by an NFL team does affect draft order, for some teams more than others.
I don't know I'd want to take a flyer in the 3rd round on a player we might not see. It's complicated. Who we might have access to and who we need comes into play. The better any team has in depth with their Canadians falls into that risk assessment.
Now Bombers are looking pretty good now and for the future. Their assessment who they pick on how long it takes to become starters or productive is always a best guess. If a choice is available that could be a starter soon makes taking a flyer a bad decision.
IMO who who pick in rounds 1 - 3 have a very good chance of making the roster in 2024. The round 3 player might never be more than a good ST player. OTOH, he might progress into a good rotational piece in his 2nd year or even be moving towards becoming a starter.
NFL mini camps happen in in May. So a Canadian attending one of those may still be available soon for the CFL. He may or may not get an offer as an undrafted free agent. He may decide to wait it out for awhile to see if something happens as actual NFL TC's approach.
Each will make his own decision. A CFL team may have that kind of decision with a possible candidate.
I guess we'll have to watch and see which of all these Canadians end up getting drafted by the CFL and with what pick.
If you look back over the years, very few 3rd or 4th rounders make rosters. Using a 3rd round pick on a flyer depends on the quality of the player, the chance that they eventually come north, and what the team's immediate need level for Nats is.
We are deeep at Nats, and any new roster player is going to mean a good roster player is going to find the door...
Quote from: theaardvark on April 28, 2024, 08:19:27 PMIf you look back over the years, very few 3rd or 4th rounders make rosters. Using a 3rd round pick on a flyer depends on the quality of the player, the chance that they eventually come north, and what the team's immediate need level for Nats is.
We are deeep at Nats, and any new roster player is going to mean a good roster player is going to find the door...
You better check our roster again and see that we have several that were picked much later than the 3 - 4 round.
Nick Hallett was picked in the 7th round.
Tanner Cadwallader was picked in the 7th round.
Shayne Gauthier picked in the 4th round.
Chris Kolankowski picked in the 6th round by the Argos.
Max Charbonneau picked in the 8th round
Bret MacDougall picked in the 6th round.
Pat Neufled picked in the 5th round by the Riders
Jake Thomas picked in the 4th round.
Drew Wolitarsky was selected in the supplemental draft giving up a 3rd round pick. That's why they have 8 rounds. :)
You can't build a roster with only 1st and 2nd round picks.
Why let the facts get in the way of a good story? lol
We draft really well. I was talking in general.
Quote from: theaardvark on April 28, 2024, 09:31:59 PMWe draft really well. I was talking in general.
Which is why the Bombers shouldn't do that with their 3rd round pick. As I said, you can't build a roster with only 1st and 2nd round picks.
Anyone want to make a new prediction of who the Bombers draft with their 1st 3 picks based on the impact of the NFL activities of drafts and UFA signings etc?
Quote from: Blue In BC on April 29, 2024, 05:27:42 PMAnyone want to make a new prediction of who the Bombers draft with their 1st 3 picks based on the impact of the NFL activities of drafts and UFA signings etc?
1 - Best Olineman, regardless status
2 - BPA CFL ready.
3 - BPA
Quote from: theaardvark on April 29, 2024, 05:51:56 PM1 - Best Olineman, regardless status
2 - BPA CFL ready.
3 - BPA
Not sure what you meant for item 1 regardless of status? Do you mean drafting an OL that was drafted by the NFL?
In any case I was looking for actual names not position. A new mock draft for the Bombers.
So, the top three prospects and 8th went in the NFL draft:
1 Isaiah Adams OL 3rd round 71st Arizona
2 Theo Johnson TE 4th round 107th Giants
3 Tanner McLachlan TE 6th round 194th Bengals
8 Giovanni Manu OL 4th round 126th Lions
Sorry, but we pick to far down to even guess who might be available, but here it goes.
1 - 10 of the top 16 prospects are OL, so one of them would be the first pick. Not sure if any other team would pick Adams knowing he's off to the NFL as a 3rd rounder, but I'd pick him. How's that?
2 - No Manitoba boys in the top 20 prospects, I was looking at Dan Okpoko DL from San Diego State as a DL prospect, but hate to be Labatte'd.
3 - If Kevin Mital drops to this point, getting a highly ranked WR would be nice...
Quote from: Blue In BC on April 29, 2024, 05:27:42 PMAnyone want to make a new prediction of who the Bombers draft with their 1st 3 picks based on the impact of the NFL activities of drafts and UFA signings etc?
In my opinion the greatest need is DL, so @ eight (1st to 3rd choice): Okpoke, Brubacher or Hergott.
Pick 17 a O-Lineman: Mueller, Nkanu or Bosse
Pick 20 a Receiver: Duncan-Busby
Quote from: dizzycamper on April 29, 2024, 09:36:21 PMIn my opinion the greatest need is DL, so @ eight (1st to 3rd choice): Okpoke, Brubacher or Hergott.
Pick 17 a O-Lineman: Mueller, Nkanu or Bosse
Pick 20 a Receiver: Duncan-Busby
There might be some of the top 20 left by the time we pick. Only 10 have no current NFL deals of any sort although 2 or 3 might still be selected in the CFL draft.
Some teams will choose players outside of the ranking or at different pick numbers. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
You listed a couple of players outside the top 20 which is understandable. You also listed a couple inside the top 20 which might be available to us with our 1st pick. Hard to say who is available for round 2.
We might still see more Canadians get invited to mini camps today or early tomorrow. Moving targets. :)
Quote from: Blue In BC on April 29, 2024, 10:48:31 PMThere might be some of the top 20 left by the time we pick. Only 10 have no current NFL deals of any sort although 2 or 3 might still be selected in the CFL draft.
Some teams will choose players outside of the ranking or at different pick numbers. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
You listed a couple of players outside the top 20 which is understandable. You also listed a couple inside the top 20 which might be available to us with our 1st pick. Hard to say who is available for round 2.
We might still see more Canadians get invited to mini camps today or early tomorrow. Moving targets. :)
As I mentioned the other day, four (4) of the twenty (20) top 20 list, I wouldn't expect in the CFL.
Those that have received rookie free agent deals, I'd say two (2) or three (3) will be gone for a while, and probably not if they attain a NFL roster spot year after year. In my ciphering world, that is now six (6) - seven (7) of the top 20, leaving 13 to 14 for the CFL draft.
With Bombers picking at eight (8), that leaves us with four (4) or Five (5) potential prospects from the top 20 list. Slim pickings, with a certain amount of risk picking. This is the problem with success and really picking in a draft that wasn't that great for the Bombers last year.
Yes, I still believe that the Bombers should pick a D-Line @ 8, an O-Lineman and a Receiver @ 17 and 20. I also believe they should look at another O-Linemen and Linebacker before their last pick in the 5th round, pic 46.
Just my thoughts... Enjoy the draft tomorrow, everyone.
Quote from: dizzycamper on April 30, 2024, 12:55:45 AMYes, I still believe that the Bombers should pick a D-Line @ 8, an O-Lineman and a Receiver @ 17 and 20. I also believe they should look at another O-Linemen and Linebacker before their last pick in the 5th round, pic 46.
No way we pick DL at 8. Our NAT OL cupboard is basically bare. Dobson in for Gray and Eli as 6th/TE. That leaves not only zero extra dressed NAT OL, it leaves zero ZERO extra
rostered NAT OL! Not to mention we may not have any answers at RT... it would have been nice to have a guy like Gray in the hopper who could, in a disaster pinch, also play RT.
OL is a huge risk for us going into week 1. I wouldn't be surprised if we pick OLs in our 1st
2 picks. A NAT DL is just gravy, and you don't reach for the gravy until you're sure you've secured your potatoes.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on April 30, 2024, 02:49:43 AMNo way we pick DL at 8. Our NAT OL cupboard is basically bare. Dobson in for Gray and Eli as 6th/TE. That leaves not only zero extra dressed NAT OL, it leaves zero ZERO extra rostered NAT OL! Not to mention we may not have any answers at RT... it would have been nice to have a guy like Gray in the hopper who could, in a disaster pinch, also play RT.
OL is a huge risk for us going into week 1. I wouldn't be surprised if we pick OLs in our 1st 2 picks. A NAT DL is just gravy, and you don't reach for the gravy until you're sure you've secured your potatoes.
We will see tomorrow.
I don't disagree with you, as I've got a couple mocks here, one definitely has 2 OL picked with our first 3 picks.
I will differ with you as there is a need on the D-Line for me. One of these prospects is a "fit" on rotation as the season progresses and should be taken. Will not be available at 17 or 20.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on April 30, 2024, 02:49:43 AMNo way we pick DL at 8. Our NAT OL cupboard is basically bare. Dobson in for Gray and Eli as 6th/TE. That leaves not only zero extra dressed NAT OL, it leaves zero ZERO extra rostered NAT OL! Not to mention we may not have any answers at RT... it would have been nice to have a guy like Gray in the hopper who could, in a disaster pinch, also play RT.
OL is a huge risk for us going into week 1. I wouldn't be surprised if we pick OLs in our 1st 2 picks. A NAT DL is just gravy, and you don't reach for the gravy until you're sure you've secured your potatoes.
Our current ratio could allow a change to 3 import OL in the short term. That may mean 1 or more of the imports that end up on the PR could be injury replacements.
Obviously we'll draft an OL. The question is whether he's a better immediate replacement if an injury happens. Ratio may mean he goes on the AR and gets some reps as the season progresses.
We have been keeping 7 OL on the AR. Losing Gray changes that at the moment.
Quote from: Blue In BC on April 30, 2024, 01:15:09 PMOur current ratio could allow a change to 3 import OL in the short term. That may mean 1 or more of the imports that end up on the PR could be injury replacements.
Obviously we'll draft an OL. The question is whether he's a better immediate replacement if an injury happens. Ratio may mean he goes on the AR and gets some reps as the season progresses.
We have been keeping 7 OL on the AR. Losing Gray changes that at the moment.
I still wonder if Geoff Gray is gone, this has been very quiet. Last game of last season when the Bombers had wrapped up first, a portion of the game, the O-Line lined up with Gray at right tackle and Dobson @ guard. Just my observation and question.
I understand all the salary stuff that has been happening this past year and prior. As of late it has been announced the Bombers were over the salary cap, the signings leading up to the Feb free agents was slow/stressful, the release of some popular/needed players, players taking a cut in their salaries in the past and on.
Now, will there be a couple signings here shortly. The immediate need for O-Line and D-Line is there. Geoff Gray and Jonathan Kongbo would help.
In closing, the Bombers will do what is best/available for the team with today's draft.
Quote from: dizzycamper on April 30, 2024, 02:09:08 PMI still wonder if Geoff Gray is gone, this has been very quiet. Last game of last season when the Bombers had wrapped up first, a portion of the game, the O-Line lined up with Gray at right tackle and Dobson @ guard. Just my observation and question.
I understand all the salary stuff that has been happening this past year and prior. As of late it has been announced the Bombers were over the salary cap, the signings leading up to the Feb free agents was slow/stressful, the release of some popular/needed players, players taking a cut in their salaries in the past and on.
Now, will there be a couple signings here shortly. The immediate need for O-Line and D-Line is there. Geoff Gray and Jonathan Kongbo would help.
In closing, the Bombers will do what is best/available for the team with today's draft.
The Bombers said they had money to re-sign Grant. If he doesn't re-sign, then they might have a little extra in the pot to bring Gray back.
I didn't get the impression that Gray not returning was a money issue per se. He may have wanted to move into his non football career.
A lot can change over the next 24 hours. We could potentially draft 2 OL with our 1st 2 picks. Those decisions may determine whether we look at currently available free agents. Kongbo for example.
SMS and strength / readiness of draftees all part of the equation.
The global draft can't be dismissed either. The may find a good rotational player on defence?
The Global Draft just ended. Interesting strategy for the Bombers as they've gone in a different direction from every other team. The Bombers are the only team to pick directly from the European Football League (EFL) and they used both picks there.
At 8th overall - Fabian Weitz - LB - 6'0 220 (age 25) -- from Cologne, Germany (not sure pro games played, but he's definitely been in some)
At 17th overall - Lucky Ogbevoen - DB - 6'2 223 (age 24) - from Vienna, Austria (26 pro games in Europe played)
Note: Ogbevoen is listed as a DB per the draft tracker but seems to play ILB/OLB and probably translates to SAM here since's he's listed as a DB and not a linebacker.
Further reading:
Consider the source but Weitz is described as one of Europe's best linebackers. https://europeanleague.football/news/cologne-centurions-sign-division-i-homegrown-fabian-weitz-1347
Less on Oghevoen but there's a short article here with some basic descriptors: https://europeanleague.football/news/tirol-raiders-extend-nfl-international-combine-attendee-lucky-ogbevoen-861
Can't wait to see these guys compete in training camp with the rest of the fellas
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on April 30, 2024, 03:22:51 PMThe Global Draft just ended. Interesting strategy for the Bombers as they've gone in a different direction from every other team. The Bombers are the only team to pick directly from the European Football League (EFL) and they used both picks there.
At 8th overall - Fabian Weitz - LB - 6'0 220 (age 25) -- from Cologne, Germany (not sure pro games played, but he's definitely been in some)
At 17th overall - Lucky Ogbevoen - DB - 6'2 223 (age 24) - from Vienna, Austria (26 pro games in Europe played)
Note: Ogbevoen is listed as a DB per the draft tracker but seems to play ILB/OLB and probably translates to SAM here since's he's listed as a DB and not a linebacker.
Further reading:
Consider the source by Weitz is described as one of Europe's best linebackers. https://europeanleague.football/news/cologne-centurions-sign-division-i-homegrown-fabian-weitz-1347
Less on Oghevoen but there's a short article here with some basic descriptors: https://europeanleague.football/news/tirol-raiders-extend-nfl-international-combine-attendee-lucky-ogbevoen-861
Interesting. Looks like the are trying to create another Hansen, both will play ST nicely.
Thought they might take a P, but I guess there are a lot of GLB P out there undrafted, so why waste a pick? I still expect there to be a global P in camp, probably more than one invited and see who shows up...
Quote from: theaardvark on April 30, 2024, 03:51:16 PMInteresting. Looks like the are trying to create another Hansen, both will play ST nicely.
Thought they might take a P, but I guess there are a lot of GLB P out there undrafted, so why waste a pick? I still expect there to be a global P in camp, probably more than one invited and see who shows up...
Agree they probably will bring some punting competition in, although it seems they are fairly happy Sheahan (although let's wait and see what happens at the draft tonight and a few days after). The fact we're pretty close to camp and there hasn't been a signing means it hasn't really been an area of emphasis I would surmise.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on April 30, 2024, 04:09:49 PMAgree they probably will bring some punting competition in, although it seems they are fairly happy Sheahan (although let's wait and see what happens at the draft tonight and a few days after). The fact we're pretty close to camp and there hasn't been a signing means it hasn't really been an area of emphasis I would surmise.
I think the Global draft being over, and any P prospects that weren't taken now on the open market, you will see us invite a few to camp and hope someone shows up.
Sheehan was a very interesting experiment, and who knows, maybe he had a good offseason figuring out how to mold his skills into the CFL game.
Flipping our #8 pick +#28 to Calgary for Calgary's pics at 13 and 14 was a brilliant move. 4 picks in the 2nd round (13, 14, 17, 20) in one of the deepest drafts in recent history is amazing.
At #13, Kevens Clercius, WR, UCONN. 6'2", 217. Known as an elite ST player, and is known for doing the dirty work well in blocking. A Canadian Sheed?
https://youtu.be/9ET7bQ-Gixc?si=IG8AlO82dTq3a7mj
https://youtu.be/LvbcFSaNpSM?si=RNqwWRpG0R6_N043
At #14, Michael Chris-Ike, RB/FB, Delaware State. 6'1, 225#. A large, fast player. Known for brute force and speedy cuts, his vision has been questioned. A durable backup for Brady, but expected to be an immediate special teams player in the mold of Mike Miller.
https://youtu.be/dn1f8piIdyo?si=YUw6b2Vj0n2ITr9P
At #17, Gabe Wallace, OL, Buffalo. 6'6", #305. Was originally projected at #3. A mean, hard-nosed big body road-grader who can play guard or tackle. Favorite player growing up in BC was Adam Bighill.
https://youtu.be/jgfS0Z0WffE?si=ePn2wOzLb-nMAH1J
At #20, Kyle Samson, DT, UBC. 6'3", #290. 2X Academic All Canadian, 2X All Canadian, 2X All Star. . 34 reps on the bench on his pro day. Reputation as a run-stuffer with a great motor.
https://youtu.be/35nByW_PCDU?si=KVO7OlTshNSbXYF8
At #37, Ian Leroux, LS, Laval. 6'1", #225. Mike Benson's protege?
At #40, Ethan Kalra, OL, Waterloo. 6'2". 305.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T8P4M7gjYw
At #46, Giovanni Manu, OL, UBC. 6'8", #340. Drafted by the Detroit Lions in the 4th round of the NFL draft. A low price to pay If he ever makes it to the CFL, he could be impressive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iggOW_M1lNM
Wow... WR and RB first two picks...
Guessing OL next 2...
A LS at #37 Ian Laroux from Laval. At #40 Ethan Kelra OL Waterloo - 6"2" 309 lbs.
I like the size of these OL
#46 Giovanni Manu - UBC 6'8" 340 (drafted by Detroit Lions).
#55 Abdul-Karim Gassama - Manitoba 5'8" 158 lbs.
#64 Michael Vlahogiannis - McGill, OL 6'3" 312 lbs.
#73 Owen Hubert - McMaster, DL 6'4" 263 lbs.
Quote from: Blue In BC on April 30, 2024, 01:15:09 PMOur current ratio could allow a change to 3 import OL in the short term. That may mean 1 or more of the imports that end up on the PR could be injury replacements.
Obviously we'll draft an OL. The question is whether he's a better immediate replacement if an injury happens. Ratio may mean he goes on the AR and gets some reps as the season progresses.
We have been keeping 7 OL on the AR. Losing Gray changes that at the moment.
Their is no need to go 3 imports on the Oline. Dobson/Eli will Duke it out for LG and when Neufeld retires the loser might take his place.
Interesting draft...
Consensus #1, Isiah Adams, not chosen.
4 OL including Manu, a 4th round NFL draftee (won't see him for a while, if ever)
2 WR
2 DL
1 RB
1 LS
Lots of players with ST ability, lots that MOS will love.
Loved the coverage, when the panel was gushing over WPG's current depth, saying they could start 9 NAT's...
WR, RB off the bat was unexpected, but both are going to contribute immediately on ST, and could be good depth for development.
Our picks:
13 CLERCIUS, KEVENS CONNECTICUT WR 6'2 217 1999-10-07
14 CHRIS-IKE, MICHAEL DELAWARE STATE RB 6'1 225 1999-01-02
17 WALLACE, GABE BUFFALO OL 6'6 305 2000-01-09
20 SAMSON, KYLE UBC DL 6'3 290 2000-11-14
37 LEROUX, IAN LAVAL LS 6'1 225 1999-05-06
40 KALRA, ETHAN WATERLOO OL 6'2 309 2000-03-27
46 MANU, GIOVANNI UBC OL 6'8 340 2001-01-26
55 GASSAMA, ABDUL-KARIM MANITOBA WR 5'9 158 1999-10-13
64 VLAHOGIANNIS, MICHAEL MCGILL OL 6'3 312 1998-11-11
73 HUBERT, OWEN MCMASTER DL 6'4 263 2000-03-01
Quote from: theaardvark on May 01, 2024, 04:31:17 AMInteresting draft...
[...]
WR, RB off the bat was unexpected, but both are going to contribute immediately on ST, and could be good depth for development.
Wacky draft! WR+RB at 13/14... pretty sure no one here had that on their bingo card. Well, maybe a couple said we may go WR as BPA early on: so they were right. But was CLERCIUS BPA at the time?
Maybe we just wanted to make the TSN panel look foolish, as none could predict our nuttiness!
But after the 13/14 we settled into much what was predicted: a DL and a possibly-exciting hoggie. 3 hoggie picks overall (4th a flyer) restocks the cupboard so I can breathe a sigh of relief we haven't abandoned our look-to-the-future ways.
The RB is a complete mystery though. Unless they've already spied him as the FB we so desperately need. A FB who is a legit RB too could be very valuable in our system. We may even be able to find a way to roster all 3 NAT "RB's" we now have. But if we made this guy our first pick as a RB-only, then Johnny may have to watch his six in TC... Or he'll get on the "Brady dev path" and be an apprentice for 2 seasons.
Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on May 01, 2024, 04:01:42 AMTheir is no need to go 3 imports on the Oline. Dobson/Eli will Duke it out for LG and when Neufeld retires the loser might take his place.
Actually, it's a good and novel thought. Why not go 3 IMP OL? It always bugs me when we start 9 or 8 NATs. Almost no other team does this.
IF we get some great IMP OL scouting done for this TC, maybe we do find not just a legit RT, but an inside IMP guy as well. That's a big IF though, as we haven't scouted a legit IMP in forever. Seems we're better at finding NAT OL talent than IMP.
Why rush a new NAT DP OL in, in year 1? And if Dobson/Eli can't make the grade either (I'd say 50/50 right now), then doing the ol' Bond routine could be an ELC way to save our bacon... How many hoggies did we bring up from the USA for TC??
As for the new "road-grader" pick... he might be intriguing as the 6th/TE, swinging across into the opposite A-gap to road-grade for Brady, like Yoshi used to do.
But as of right now, I'm pretty baffled as to what the final O pieces will look like (OL, TE, FB). I guess it'll be hard to tell until week 1 rolls around in a few weeks.
Key dates to watch as we approach the 2024 season...
May 8 - Rookie Camp opens at the stadium.
May 12 - Main Training Camp opens at the stadium.
May 14 - Rosters reduced to 75 players.
June 1 - Training Camp ends.
From everything I've seen, the Rookie and Main Training Camps are open to the public.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 01, 2024, 06:36:40 AMThe RB is a complete mystery though. Unless they've already spied him as the FB we so desperately need. A FB who is a legit RB too could be very valuable in our system. We may even be able to find a way to roster all 3 NAT "RB's" we now have. But if we made this guy our first pick as a RB-only, then Johnny may have to watch his six in TC... Or he'll get on the "Brady dev path" and be an apprentice for 2 seasons.
I was listening to the 3DownNation draft simulcast and analysis and they panel said they don't expect him to ever become an every-down starter because he doesn't have the vision of an elite RB, but he's a genetic freak and will likely be able to translate that into a decade-long career in the CFL as an ST specialist with some spot duty at RB due to injury or a blocking FB in SY in max protect from time to time.
Special teams was not our usual strength lastyear, and the club must have targeted that area to upgrade.
Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on May 01, 2024, 04:01:42 AMTheir is no need to go 3 imports on the Oline. Dobson/Eli will Duke it out for LG and when Neufeld retires the loser might take his place.
That's not exactly what I said. It's a depth question and readiness. We always retain import OL on the PR. If we have an injury or more, it might be necessary to use an import as the # 6 OL if he's ahead of a 2024 draft choice.
While that's unlikely, we also don't know how good Eli or Dobson will be in 2024. However it's an option now due to starting more than 7 Canadians if we choose or need.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 01, 2024, 06:36:40 AMWacky draft! WR+RB at 13/14... pretty sure no one here had that on their bingo card. Well, maybe a couple said we may go WR as BPA early on: so they were right. But was CLERCIUS BPA at the time?
Maybe we just wanted to make the TSN panel look foolish, as none could predict our nuttiness!
But after the 13/14 we settled into much what was predicted: a DL and a possibly-exciting hoggie. 3 hoggie picks overall (4th a flyer) restocks the cupboard so I can breathe a sigh of relief we haven't abandoned our look-to-the-future ways.
The RB is a complete mystery though. Unless they've already spied him as the FB we so desperately need. A FB who is a legit RB too could be very valuable in our system. We may even be able to find a way to roster all 3 NAT "RB's" we now have. But if we made this guy our first pick as a RB-only, then Johnny may have to watch his six in TC... Or he'll get on the "Brady dev path" and be an apprentice for 2 seasons.
Pretty sure Baker suggested Clercius as our first pick when we were about to pick. It might be the reason we dropped down, that no one was suspected of picking him, and he would have been our 8th pick anyway. It sounds like he is an OShea prototypical guy, plays teams, is a Sheed like blocker, but can still produce when needed. With 8 Nat starters already, I think he fits in great.
With us moving on from Johnson at FB, we needed someone to replace him. He has BO20 to learn from, and maybe adjust his upright running style, but in the meantime, he plays teams, and might just fit perfectly into the Miller mould, he is almost identical in size and is apparently a physical specimen.
I was thinking they'd go DE or OL early, lots of beef out there, but looking at the entire draft, and not just one or two picks, I think they addressed the situation very well, prioritizing ST play that was not the best facet of our game last year.
Quote from: Blue In BC on May 01, 2024, 12:52:42 PMThat's not exactly what I said. It's a depth question and readiness. We always retain import OL on the PR. If we have an injury or more, it might be necessary to use an import as the # 6 OL if he's ahead of a 2024 draft choice.
While that's unlikely, we also don't know how good Eli or Dobson will be in 2024. However it's an option now due to starting more than 7 Canadians if we choose or need.
Pretty sure we do know. If there was any doubt, moves would have been made. Both Eli and Dobson have proven over the time they've been here that they can play at a high level, if Costello thought they couldn't easily step in and compete for Gray's starting spot, Gray wold be back.
We've tried backup/PR American Oline at OG. Remember the Bond experiment? We bring in American OT's, not OG's. And those skill sets do not always easily translate. So you can't just slap a PR OT into a starting OG spot.
Remember, Eli was a highly rated NFL prospect until he moved away from football for family reasons, and Dobson got to 2 NFL camps before coming north... these are not scrapheap players, they are legit talent. That Eli can also back up at C is an even bigger plus.
With 4(3) Oline drafted this year, the potential for a 7th Oline on the AR as well as a PR spot or 2 is there as well. Which doesn't leave much room for American Oline...
Quote from: theaardvark on May 01, 2024, 04:08:08 PMPretty sure we do know. If there was any doubt, moves would have been made. Both Eli and Dobson have proven over the time they've been here that they can play at a high level, if Costello thought they couldn't easily step in and compete for Gray's starting spot, Gray wold be back.
We've tried backup/PR American Oline at OG. Remember the Bond experiment? We bring in American OT's, not OG's. And those skill sets do not always easily translate. So you can't just slap a PR OT into a starting OG spot.
Remember, Eli was a highly rated NFL prospect until he moved away from football for family reasons, and Dobson got to 2 NFL camps before coming north... these are not scrapheap players, they are legit talent. That Eli can also back up at C is an even bigger plus.
With 4(3) Oline drafted this year, the potential for a 7th Oline on the AR as well as a PR spot or 2 is there as well. Which doesn't leave much room for American Oline...
Both Eli and Dobson were behind Gray, so our sample size is small. We have had import guards and centers in the past, so it's an option not a necessity.
It might be more of a question as to how soon or how ready Wallace is to be either the 7th or 6th OL ( if there is an injury ).
Quote from: Blue In BC on May 01, 2024, 04:46:56 PMBoth Eli and Dobson were behind Gray, so our sample size is small. We have had import guards and centers in the past, so it's an option not a necessity.
It might be more of a question as to how soon or how ready Wallace is to be either the 7th or 6th OL ( if there is an injury ).
The one of Eli or Dobson who isn't starting for Gray will be the sixth man. One of the DP's will probably be the 7th (my money is on Wallace). We will have 2 American OT (unless Wallace surprises) on the AR and one on the PR.
Sounds like a full roster with a 3 Nat Oline to me.
Quote from: theaardvark on May 01, 2024, 05:06:05 PMThe one of Eli or Dobson who isn't starting for Gray will be the sixth man. One of the DP's will probably be the 7th (my money is on Wallace). We will have 2 American OT (unless Wallace surprises) on the AR and one on the PR.
Sounds like a full roster with a 3 Nat Oline to me.
Yes, Wallace will likely be the 7th OL or 6th OL if we have an injury. I don't know much about him or the other OL drafted but wouldn't expect any of the others to be more than PR in 2024.
As I said, we haven't always had 8 or 9 potential Canadian starters, so it gives us another option. An import may be projected as an OT in 2025 and he might be more ready than Wallace as an example.
I don't think that will happen but it is a new option that we haven't had before the last couple of seasons.
We had Machino on the PR and IMO he was never an OT option. By default he was an emergency plan at guard. Now he's no longer with the team.
Quote from: Blue In BC on May 01, 2024, 05:26:55 PMYes, Wallace will likely be the 7th OL or 6th OL if we have an injury. I don't know much about him or the other OL drafted but wouldn't expect any of the others to be more than PR in 2024.
As I said, we haven't always had 8 or 9 potential Canadian starters, so it gives us another option. An import may be projected as an OT in 2025 and he might be more ready than Wallace as an example.
I don't think that will happen but it is a new option that we haven't had before the last couple of seasons.
We had Machino on the PR and IMO he was never an OT option. By default he was an emergency plan at guard. Now he's no longer with the team.
A 3 Imp oline would take injury to 2 starters. Kolankowski, Neufeld, Dobson and Eli have the inner oline covered three ways from centre, and it would take 2 of them getting injured to require an emergency Imp insertion. And even then, we won't have an Imp OG on the roster, and would probably go with one of the DP's, whoever's more ready.
Quote from: theaardvark on May 01, 2024, 05:38:14 PMA 3 Imp oline would take injury to 2 starters. Kolankowski, Neufeld, Dobson and Eli have the inner oline covered three ways from centre, and it would take 2 of them getting injured to require an emergency Imp insertion. And even then, we won't have an Imp OG on the roster, and would probably go with one of the DP's, whoever's more ready.
Which part are you not getting that Wallace might not the best option to be the 6th OL? He'll be the 7th OL to start the season. However, an import might be needed to be a 6h OL at either OT or guard.
Our current ratio would allow that if what I suggested happens. In 2023 Gray might have been the in game injury at OT. We've lost that option in game. So this is a new situation.
Not the preferable one and I hope Wallace is game ready if the need occurs.
OT injury means a 4 NAT oline, not a 2 NAT oline..
We have NAT injury OT backup in Neufeld. We will probably dress 5 Nat oline (Neuf, Dobson, Eli, Kola, and a draft pick) and 2 Imp oline (Stanley and whoever wins the RT battle). Injury insode, Eli/Dobson covers. OT injury, Neuf moves out, and Eli/Dobson covers. 2 guy go down in game, DP comes in. 3 guys go down, Jake changes jerseys.
With Imp OT makes the roster, and which sticks on the PR is a TC issue. Which DP makes the roster, and which ones end up on teh PR, again, TC battle.
And there is always the potential that Gray could be called up.
Looks pretty solid, and in no instance, ever, does it require a 3 Imp oline. Even though we could with out starting ratio. Just no reason to. Its not like a new Int olineman would be dressed over a Nat. Ever.
Quote from: theaardvark on May 01, 2024, 06:22:14 PMOT injury means a 4 NAT oline, not a 2 NAT oline..
We have NAT injury OT backup in Neufeld. We will probably dress 5 Nat oline (Neuf, Dobson, Eli, Kola, and a draft pick) and 2 Imp oline (Stanley and whoever wins the RT battle). Injury insode, Eli/Dobson covers. OT injury, Neuf moves out, and Eli/Dobson covers. 2 guy go down in game, DP comes in. 3 guys go down, Jake changes jerseys.
With Imp OT makes the roster, and which sticks on the PR is a TC issue. Which DP makes the roster, and which ones end up on teh PR, again, TC battle.
And there is always the potential that Gray could be called up.
Looks pretty solid, and in no instance, ever, does it require a 3 Imp oline. Even though we could with out starting ratio. Just no reason to. Its not like a new Int olineman would be dressed over a Nat. Ever.
Probably. I'd rather keep Neufeld at guard than moving him to OT in case of emergency beyond in game situation. We didn't use an import at FB before last season. We didn't start a Canadian at SAM after a few games in 2024.
Yes, Neufeld could move out to OT but would that be the best choice for an extended period? If we have an import OT on the PR, it might be an option if and when we have any injury to a starting Canadian.
Keeping in mind we'll already have 2 new starters on our OL.
Quote from: Blue In BC on May 01, 2024, 06:28:56 PMProbably. I'd rather keep Neufeld at guard than moving him to OT in case of emergency beyond in game situation. We didn't use an import at FB before last season. We didn't start a Canadian at SAM after a few games in 2024.
Yes, Neufeld could move out to OT but would that be the best choice for an extended period? If we have an import OT on the PR, it might be an option if and when we have any injury to a starting Canadian.
Keeping in mind we'll already have 2 new starters on our OL.
Neufeld at OT is an ingame injury replacement only. Next game, the Int OT on the PR comes in. That is why you have an Int OT on the PR at all times. And if he gets put on rollerskates by the D, Neufeld is the emergency in game replacement.
Quote from: theaardvark on May 01, 2024, 06:53:03 PMNeufeld at OT is an ingame injury replacement only. Next game, the Int OT on the PR comes in. That is why you have an Int OT on the PR at all times. And if he gets put on rollerskates by the D, Neufeld is the emergency in game replacement.
We'll already be starting a new import OT. Probably Lofton as the front runner at the moment. The point you continue is if it's Neufeld that has more than just an in game injury, we could see an import added to the AR.
While Dobson might start in place of Neufeld ,we lose another in game replacement at OT. I don't know that Wallace will fill that role as the 6th OL. However adding a 2nd import OT might be a better solution.
In 2024 Gray was a 2nd option to slide out to OT. I don't think Eli, Dobson or Wallace will fill that option should it become necessary. I see this as an option should Neufeld suffer more than an in game injury.
Obviously, Wallace could be more game ready than I imagine, but imports are usually closer to game ready than rookie Canadians. Not only that they have experience playing more OT than G.
Quote from: theaardvark on May 01, 2024, 05:06:05 PMThe one of Eli or Dobson who isn't starting for Gray will be the sixth man. One of the DP's will probably be the 7th (my money is on Wallace). We will have 2 American OT (unless Wallace surprises) on the AR and one on the PR.
Sounds like a full roster with a 3 Nat Oline to me.
IF IF IF Dobson/Eli prove as capable as Gray at LG. Big IF. Don't y'all remember the one/couple/few games Dobson or Eli started at guard (garbage season / pre-season) or stepped in as in-game injury replacement? They looked pretty bad.
So we're counting on those instances being flukes (weak supporting cast, no one cared, etc), OR we're counting on them having dev'd a whack ton. This is certainly possible, but it's not 100%.
My hunch is week 1 it's Dobson at LG. If he stinks out the joint (i.e. worse than Gray in his first few starts) then we need plan B, pronto. It certainly is possible Eli beats out Dobson in TC, but the same problem remains.
IF our NAT aspirations don't pan out, AND we strike gold with some great TC IMP OL, then "pulling a Bond" is certainly a viable possibility given our ratio overage. What's harder to find at the last second, a very good NAT LG or an IMP LG? Our pool of NAT OL is now set in stone, the IMP OL pool is very flexible...
This is the
one advantage to being (way) over-ratio.
Quote from: theaardvark on May 01, 2024, 06:22:14 PMLooks pretty solid, and in no instance, ever, does it require a 3 Imp oline. Even though we could with out starting ratio. Just no reason to. Its not like a new Int olineman would be dressed over a Nat. Ever.
They would if the DPs are not game-ready, and both Dobson and Eli disappoint at LG... then there'd be no other option.
Quote from: Blue In BC on May 01, 2024, 10:20:13 PMWhile Dobson might start in place of Neufeld ,we lose another in game replacement at OT. I don't know that Wallace will fill that role as the 6th OL. However adding a 2nd import OT might be a better solution.
Certainly the un-started of Dobson/Eli would be the 6th... BUT if Wallace is dressed anyhow, he could be the 6th for certain schemes/sets. He might be a stronger option at run-dozing, while Dobson/Eli a stronger option at pass-pro. They say Wallace not very quick with the hands, and bad with feet, so that would make him a road-grader only and a poor choice to passpro against an agile DE.
Of course that kind of tips the opponent off to our plan that snap... but we can play with it to mix it up enough to keep them guessing.
If it's 4th Q and we're just pounding the gut with Brady anyhow, why not try this kid out? Heck, maybe put him at LG for some snaps and have Dobson move out to extra edge protection.
Who knows. But this is all certainly dependent on how well the kid shines right off the bat. He may need 1-2 years before he can do anything, as is somewhat normal for WPG DP OL (minus Chungh, Gray, Desjar).
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 02, 2024, 12:50:11 AMCertainly the un-started of Dobson/Eli would be the 6th... BUT if Wallace is dressed anyhow, he could be the 6th for certain schemes/sets. He might be a stronger option at run-dozing, while Dobson/Eli a stronger option at pass-pro. They say Wallace not very quick with the hands, and bad with feet, so that would make him a road-grader only and a poor choice to passpro against an agile DE.
Of course that kind of tips the opponent off to our plan that snap... but we can play with it to mix it up enough to keep them guessing.
If it's 4th Q and we're just pounding the gut with Brady anyhow, why not try this kid out? Heck, maybe put him at LG for some snaps and have Dobson move out to extra edge protection.
Who knows. But this is all certainly dependent on how well the kid shines right off the bat. He may need 1-2 years before he can do anything, as is somewhat normal for WPG DP OL (minus Chungh, Gray, Desjar).
If you can dress seven Oline, then do it.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 02, 2024, 12:43:23 AMThey would if the DPs are not game-ready, and both Dobson and Eli disappoint at LG... then there'd be no other option.
If BOTH Dobson and Eli disappoint at LG, then tey call Gray. But there is no way Costello goes into the season unhappy with replacing Gray with Dobson/Eli. No way he lets Walters not sign Gray if he isn't 100% sure in Dobson/Eli. We let Couture go because Kolankowski was ready. We lose at last one good Olineman a year to pricing out, and have replaced them.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 02, 2024, 12:43:23 AMThey would if the DPs are not game-ready, and both Dobson and Eli disappoint at LG... then there'd be no other option.
Why would they disappoint at LG. Eli showed last year, that he should be on the field.
Quote from: theaardvark on May 02, 2024, 04:48:33 PMIf BOTH Dobson and Eli disappoint at LG, then tey call Gray. But there is no way Costello goes into the season unhappy with replacing Gray with Dobson/Eli. No way he lets Walters not sign Gray if he isn't 100% sure in Dobson/Eli. We let Couture go because Kolankowski was ready. We lose at last one good Olineman a year to pricing out, and have replaced them.
Not quite. Couture left for a big payday and he's from the Lower Mainland.
Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on May 04, 2024, 09:34:31 PMWhy would they disappoint at LG. Eli showed last year, that he should be on the field.
Not sure where you're getting that. I remember the few times he was in at LG and the forum had some big naysayers (dd and/or TB I think? sorry if wrong). I was trying to be optimistic but it was clear Eli was no Gray, and Gray was no Desjar!!
Eli was great as 6th or 7th, but I've seen nothing to indicate he's ready for LG.
That said, as usual, he may have dev'd since and may be even better if anointed new LG in TC and practicing with first unit, etc. We can all be hopeful.
And why are you picking Eli? My money is on Dobson winning the spot if it comes down to a Dobson/Eli choice. He looked like the stronger option with Eli left free as the 6th, as well as C injury replacement. Both feel/look undersized from the stands compared to Gray, no idea if the stats back that up.
Serious question for you others who think Eli is the favorite: why? Not dissing, just curious as I have the opposite take.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 05, 2024, 02:54:22 AMNot sure where you're getting that. I remember the few times he was in at LG and the forum had some big naysayers (dd and/or TB I think? sorry if wrong). I was trying to be optimistic but it was clear Eli was no Gray, and Gray was no Desjar!!
Eli was great as 6th or 7th, but I've seen nothing to indicate he's ready for LG.
That said, as usual, he may have dev'd since and may be even better if anointed new LG in TC and practicing with first unit, etc. We can all be hopeful.
And why are you picking Eli? My money is on Dobson winning the spot if it comes down to a Dobson/Eli choice. He looked like the stronger option with Eli left free as the 6th, as well as C injury replacement. Both feel/look undersized from the stands compared to Gray, no idea if the stats back that up.
Serious question for you others who think Eli is the favorite: why? Not dissing, just curious as I have the opposite take.
That's because your average fan can't evaluate Oline talent.
Eli was considered a steal when we drafted him. The team signed him to a 3 year deal going into 2023. That says he's in the longer term plans. IIRC Dobson is only signed for 2024. I'm not saying they won't extend / re-sign him for 2025 but it's a TBD.
Dobson may choose to leave ( playing time or SMS ) or we draft more OL in the 2025 draft?
Anyway. IMO that's why the expectation is Eli is the LG going into TC.
Quote from: Blue In BC on May 05, 2024, 02:34:57 PMAnyway. IMO that's why the expectation is Eli is the LG going into TC.
I guess that could make sense. Maybe others have more theories?
However, football is about "this season". If Dobson is clearly better than Eli then you start Dobson, regardless of his fickle status next season. It's about winning now. You don't hamstring your team right now to stave off the pain of off-season player losses.
You could also argue that letting them start and win & get rings makes them eager to stay, a la Neufeld, Yoshi, Stan.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 05, 2024, 08:21:20 PMI guess that could make sense. Maybe others have more theories?
However, football is about "this season". If Dobson is clearly better than Eli then you start Dobson, regardless of his fickle status next season. It's about winning now. You don't hamstring your team right now to stave off the pain of off-season player losses.
You could also argue that letting them start and win & get rings makes them eager to stay, a la Neufeld, Yoshi, Stan.
Sure Dobson could end up starting and win a large new contract going into 2025. OTOH if Eli does win and plays the entire season as the LG, Dobson won't " earn " a large new contract. He may still earn a new contract or he may choose to move elsewhere.
Too early to predict what happens for 2025. The only thing we would seem to know is that Eli will go into TC as the starting LG on the depth chart.
Anything can happen including injuries to multiple players that could impact the outcome.
Quote from: Blue In BC on May 05, 2024, 08:38:01 PMToo early to predict what happens for 2025. The only thing we would seem to know is that Eli will go into TC as the starting LG on the depth chart.
You keep saying that... but I don't recall hearing that from anyone within WFC. Do you have some inside info or something I missed? Everything I heard from KW et al was "we have in house talent", "we have options" type stuff.
Eli can play multiple positions on the oline including centre and guard. He will likely be in a battle with Liam Dobson for the vacant guard position but the team is very high on Eli's ability which is why they signed him to a 3 year contract.
Nothing can be cast in stone until training camp is finished -surprises and injuries can happen - and the roster is finalized but Eli's chances to replace Geoff Gray are better than average IMHO.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 06, 2024, 12:27:46 AMYou keep saying that... but I don't recall hearing that from anyone within WFC. Do you have some inside info or something I missed? Everything I heard from KW et al was "we have in house talent", "we have options" type stuff.
I have no inside information. I explained what I based my opinion on. It doesn't mean I'm correct.
That said, Dobson was listed as the back up LG last year on the depth chart. Eli was listed as the back up at center. We know depth charts can mean something or nothing.
I guess we'll know soon enough.
I think it's fair to say that no one on this forum knows much more than the next person.
We saw Geoff Gray take a lot of penalties in the first half of the year. He looked terrible.
MOS has way more patience and trust in the process than all of us lol
If he think either Dobson or Eli should be the starter, I'm sure he will be right. Buckle up! It might look a little ugly for the first 3-6 weeks until they settle in.
Are we voting? I'd vote for Eli. You can't have a successful football team without a Samoan in the trenches!
Quote from: LXTSN on May 06, 2024, 04:04:26 PMI think it's fair to say that no one on this forum knows much more than the next person.
We saw Geoff Gray take a lot of penalties in the first half of the year. He looked terrible.
MOS has way more patience and trust in the process than all of us lol
If he think either Dobson or Eli should be the starter, I'm sure he will be right. Buckle up! It might look a little ugly for the first 3-6 weeks until they settle in.
Are we voting? I'd vote for Eli. You can't have a successful football team without a Samoan in the trenches!
I dispute your opinion that Gray struggled last season with play and penalty accumulation and ask that you back up your statement with evidence. "We saw" doesn't cut it, I have looked and did not find deficient play, multiple times.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on May 06, 2024, 04:18:31 PMI dispute your opinion that Gray struggled last season with play and penalty accumulation and ask that you back up your statement with evidence. "We saw" doesn't cut it, I have looked and did not find deficient play, multiple times.
Is this real? I didn't think anybody would debate this.
They don't keep stats on holding or illegal blocking penalties. I suppose I could go back and watch all the games and keep track, but... this is a forum. I'll be okay with shooting from the hip on this one. If you want to prove me wrong I'll let you pull the tapes and I will shut up lol
Quote from: LXTSN on May 06, 2024, 04:42:23 PMIs this real? I didn't think anybody would debate this.
They don't keep stats on holding or illegal blocking penalties. I suppose I could go back and watch all the games and keep track, but... this is a forum. I'll be okay with shooting from the hip on this one. If you want to prove me wrong I'll let you pull the tapes and I will shut up lol
You choose to disparage Gray's play, please point out the many times he got blown up or produce evidence he took many more penalties than any of the other O-linemen he played with. I'll wait.
2023 Winnipeg Blue Bombers O-Line penalties
Geoff Gray - 3/25
Week 3 - Hold vs BC - negated 8 yard pass
Week 14 - Hold vs Ssk - offsetting with Roughing the Passer (Lanier) - negated 26 yard pass
Week 18 - Illegal Procedure vs BC - pre-snap
Liam Dobson - 2/20
Week 18 - Face Mask vs BC - tackle on MFG return - dead ball penalty
WF - Illegal Procedure vs BC - pre-snap
Tui Eli - 2/20
Week 18 - Hold vs BC - negated incomplete pass
Week 20 - Illegal Block (Hands to Face) vs Edm - negated 9 yard pass
Stanley Bryant - 4/20
Week 2 - Illegal Block (Hands to Face) vs Ssk - negated 8 yard pass
Week 12 - Illegal Procedure vs Mtl - pre-snap
Week 15 - Hold vs Ham - Declined
Grey Cup - Illegal Procedure vs Mtl - pre-snap
Jermarcus Hardrick - 6/25
Week 3 - Hold vs BC - Declined
Week 3 - Illegal Procedure vs BC - pre-snap
Week 4 - Illegal Block vs Mtl - Declined
Week 18 - Hold vs BC - Declined
Week 20 - Objectionable Conduct (Misconduct) vs Edm - dead ball penalty
Grey Cup - Hold vs Mtl - negated 12 yard run
Chris Kolankowski - 4/20
Week 7 - Hold vs Edm - negated 2 yard run
Week 7 - Hold vs Edm - Declined
Week 9 - Illegal Procedure vs BC - pre-snap
Week 12 - Illegal Procedure vs Mtl - pre-snap
Pat Neufeld - 5/50
Week 2 - Hold vs Ssk - negated 17 yard pass
Week 12 - Illegal procedure vs Mtl - pre-snap
Week 13 - Hold vs Ssk - negated 9 yard pass
Week 13 - Unnecessary Roughness (Misconduct) vs Ssk - dead ball penalty
Week 21 - Hold vs Cgy - negated 2 yard run
See?
LXTSN was right, Gray is right on the top of the list...
Oh wait...
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on May 06, 2024, 04:18:31 PMI dispute your opinion that Gray struggled last season with play and penalty accumulation and ask that you back up your statement with evidence. "We saw" doesn't cut it, I have looked and did not find deficient play, multiple times.
Ya Gray wasn't penalty-heavy. His big problem has always been that A-gap seal with Ko-man. For at least the first third to half of the season they were regularly getting beaten with bull rushes and/or stunts in their A-gap. I pointed it out nearly weekly.
However, by the season's end they had that problem mostly fixed. I think there were only a couple A-gap failures in the post-season? That's ok with me.
The problem with Gray was he wasn't Desjar. Desjar was lights out, and a better run blocker. However, he wasn't bad, as these things go. If I had my choice for '24 we'd still be starting Gray at LG in week 1. But it is what it is and if the 2 usurpers can produce results only a bit worse than Gray then we'll be ok.
My big worry is a huge drop-off, but then I'm sure KW will find an alternate solution by week 6. If he reads the forum he'll know he has the option of going IMP at LG ;D ;D :D :D
Quote from: TecnoGenius on May 07, 2024, 01:34:31 AMYa Gray wasn't penalty-heavy. His big problem has always been that A-gap seal with Ko-man. For at least the first third to half of the season they were regularly getting beaten with bull rushes and/or stunts in their A-gap. I pointed it out nearly weekly.
However, by the season's end they had that problem mostly fixed. I think there were only a couple A-gap failures in the post-season? That's ok with me.
The problem with Gray was he wasn't Desjar. Desjar was lights out, and a better run blocker. However, he wasn't bad, as these things go. If I had my choice for '24 we'd still be starting Gray at LG in week 1. But it is what it is and if the 2 usurpers can produce results only a bit worse than Gray then we'll be ok.
My big worry is a huge drop-off, but then I'm sure KW will find an alternate solution by week 6. If he reads the forum he'll know he has the option of going IMP at LG ;D ;D :D :D
I think the powers that be have no issues with the current roster, and are expecting the continued contiuity of fine Oline play to continue.
Quote from: Stats Junkie on May 06, 2024, 06:45:46 PM2023 Winnipeg Blue Bombers O-Line penalties
Geoff Gray - 3/25
Week 3 - Hold vs BC - negated 8 yard pass
Week 14 - Hold vs Ssk - offsetting with Roughing the Passer (Lanier) - negated 26 yard pass
Week 18 - Illegal Procedure vs BC - pre-snap
Liam Dobson - 2/20
Week 18 - Face Mask vs BC - tackle on MFG return - dead ball penalty
WF - Illegal Procedure vs BC - pre-snap
Tui Eli - 2/20
Week 18 - Hold vs BC - negated incomplete pass
Week 20 - Illegal Block (Hands to Face) vs Edm - negated 9 yard pass
Stanley Bryant - 4/20
Week 2 - Illegal Block (Hands to Face) vs Ssk - negated 8 yard pass
Week 12 - Illegal Procedure vs Mtl - pre-snap
Week 15 - Hold vs Ham - Declined
Grey Cup - Illegal Procedure vs Mtl - pre-snap
Jermarcus Hardrick - 6/25
Week 3 - Hold vs BC - Declined
Week 3 - Illegal Procedure vs BC - pre-snap
Week 4 - Illegal Block vs Mtl - Declined
Week 18 - Hold vs BC - Declined
Week 20 - Objectionable Conduct (Misconduct) vs Edm - dead ball penalty
Grey Cup - Hold vs Mtl - negated 12 yard run
Chris Kolankowski - 4/20
Week 7 - Hold vs Edm - negated 2 yard run
Week 7 - Hold vs Edm - Declined
Week 9 - Illegal Procedure vs BC - pre-snap
Week 12 - Illegal Procedure vs Mtl - pre-snap
Pat Neufeld - 5/50
Week 2 - Hold vs Ssk - negated 17 yard pass
Week 12 - Illegal procedure vs Mtl - pre-snap
Week 13 - Hold vs Ssk - negated 9 yard pass
Week 13 - Unnecessary Roughness (Misconduct) vs Ssk - dead ball penalty
Week 21 - Hold vs Cgy - negated 2 yard run
Wow! I was way wrong! Good for Gray!
Any chance you can pull up the year before for just Geoff Gray? Is my memory failing me already, or was it possibly the year before that I'm thinking of?
Regardless, I believe in Eli and Dobson, and I think they will do great!
Penalties are one thing. Missed blocks, not opening holes for Oliveria or allowing pressure on Collaros.
Now I don't know how many missed assignments he made but that's probably even more important than a few penalties.
Considering we were the league leading scoring team, had the most productive run game, none of our OL could have been that bad.
Quote from: LXTSN on May 07, 2024, 08:03:38 PMWow! I was way wrong! Good for Gray!
Any chance you can pull up the year before for just Geoff Gray? Is my memory failing me already, or was it possibly the year before that I'm thinking of?
Regardless, I believe in Eli and Dobson, and I think they will do great!
You are likely remembering 2022
Geoff Gray (2022) - 12/95
Week 2 - Hold vs Ott - Negated 43 yard pass
Week 2 - Hold vs Ott - Declined
Week 3 - UR vs Ham - Dead Ball Penalty
Week 4 - UR vs Tor (Offsetting) - Dead Ball Penalty
Week 9 - I.P. vs Mtl - Pre-Sanp
Week 10 - I.P. vs Mtl - Pre-Snap
Week 10 - I.P. vs Mtl - Pre-Snap
Week 12 - Hold vs Cgy - Declined
Week 13 - I.B. (Hands to Face) vs Ssk - Negated 5 yard run
Week 17 - Hold vs Ssk - Negated 2 yard run
Week 17 - Hold vs Ssk - Negated 11 yard pass
WF - Hold vs BC - Negated 7 yard pass
Quote from: Stats Junkie on May 07, 2024, 09:26:33 PMYou are likely remembering 2022
Geoff Gray (2022) - 12/95
Week 2 - Hold vs Ott - Negated 43 yard pass
Week 2 - Hold vs Ott - Declined
Week 3 - UR vs Ham - Dead Ball Penalty
Week 4 - UR vs Tor (Offsetting) - Dead Ball Penalty
Week 9 - I.P. vs Mtl - Pre-Sanp
Week 10 - I.P. vs Mtl - Pre-Snap
Week 10 - I.P. vs Mtl - Pre-Snap
Week 12 - Hold vs Cgy - Declined
Week 13 - I.B. (Hands to Face) vs Ssk - Negated 5 yard run
Week 17 - Hold vs Ssk - Negated 2 yard run
Week 17 - Hold vs Ssk - Negated 11 yard pass
WF - Hold vs BC - Negated 7 yard pass
When I grow up I want to be like Stats Junkie!
This makes a lot more sense. Sorry to Gray also. This shows really impressive improvement!
Quote from: LXTSN on May 07, 2024, 08:03:38 PMAny chance you can pull up the year before for just Geoff Gray? Is my memory failing me already, or was it possibly the year before that I'm thinking of?
As Junkie showed, I think you're remembering the UR he was starting to get known for. He was getting a rep as a pile jumper with a bit of nasty. He was definitely a push to the whistle type player. But we tend to like that in OL as it grinds down the D by 4th Q.
From the stats, it was clear he learned how to temper it a bit to avoid the URs. Maybe after some taken-aside discussions with MOS, lol.
Oh ya, SSK fans hated Gray's guts always calling him dirty and nasty and cheater. Good days my friends, good days. Don't worry, they'll find someone else to complain about in '24.